The Cargo Cultist
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
165.16316
Summary
In this episode, Mark and Erick discuss a recent attack on them by Tom Rousal, the founder of a cult dedicated to the god of the internet, Apollo. Also, they discuss the fact that Richard doesn't even mention them by name.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
here it is um shots fired by tom rousal who calls himself uh survive the jive
00:00:07.600
and um let me just play these we're being trolled i guess it's what is his way of describing right
00:00:14.460
yes um let me just play this original video and then we can start talking because um mark and i
00:00:22.680
last night we listened to a number of interviews um of survive the jive and we watched some of his
00:00:31.400
presentation we listened to some of his material but we i can't i can't claim to have a sort of
00:00:36.280
deep uh familiarity with all his positions for example but he evidently has no familiarity with
00:00:43.600
our positions so if we happen to miss i guess i don't know i guess i'm not that upset about that
00:00:50.300
um here's his uh here's his comments so he's actually visiting the temple of hephistos um
00:00:58.440
in greece so he's he's on vacation uh interesting certain people on the internet like to make a
00:01:07.040
cult of apollo who's quite distinct from the ancient cult and they regard apollo in a way that would
00:01:12.860
have been quite surprising to any of the people of the time uh when he was actually worshipped
00:01:17.700
because their reason for focusing on apollo above all other gods is they they consider him to be
00:01:24.500
more arian and by that they mean indo-european rather than indo-iranian which is what the word
00:01:32.940
really means but uh they think that i don't know why because he was a god probably imported to
00:01:42.420
greek worship from anatolia um doesn't mean necessarily mean he wasn't an european on origin
00:01:49.920
but uh certainly he's possibly not from europe and of course he's also gay he is a god who is
00:01:57.760
well attested in mythology and as doing gay things so yeah they uh these i if you want to worship apollo
00:02:06.700
that's fine but i just think um worship apollo the god as he is actually known and not this fake
00:02:13.260
apollo that they just made up uh these kind of people if you don't know who i'm talking about then
00:02:17.960
don't worry about it they're not important anyway but there's just some funny people on the internet
00:02:22.240
who've invented a cult of apollo because they consider that uh and none of these people are greek
00:02:27.460
anyway they're all americans uh likely of british descent and germanic descent who say that odin is
00:02:35.260
invented by the jews and norse mythology is jewish but uh the real god of the northern europeans is apollo
00:02:43.000
and they don't really have any evidence to support that absurd claim but uh they're not the sort of
00:02:50.980
people who really care about evidence um yeah i mean the first thing i have to say about that
00:03:00.040
richard is uh rent free rent free bitch yes in the guy's head i mean i you know i we don't think
00:03:07.280
about him i i was unaware of how to pronounce the guy's name before this you know and yet he's such
00:03:15.000
a pussy he doesn't even mention us by name you know i mean i have to say i i really do dislike that
00:03:22.040
um the other thing i would um remind tom of of these um they're just people on the internet um i would be
00:03:32.020
curious how he is not a person on the internet um he has a master's degree in medieval studies um which
00:03:43.660
is great uh he uh does a lot of videos where he takes photography and footage from other sources or
00:03:51.500
stock um sources that i presume he purchases or something and creates these um videos that that
00:04:00.060
seem almost like netflix specials about the you know the history of english paganism or the druids or
00:04:06.980
or or etc that's all fine i i i i've why i remember watching his video on the sky god and zeus
00:04:15.520
et cetera it's it was uh informative if a bit wikipadian um i must say but i don't understand how
00:04:25.740
he is not he's a book reporter he's a book reporter yes it's a book report nationalism i don't understand
00:04:31.740
how he's not an intranet person or he's somehow more important and can't bring himself to mention
00:04:38.600
our names i mean i think uh i think it's safe to say that he's clearly uh addressing this at at mark
00:04:45.100
and myself or maybe maybe i don't know who knows also the broader kind of you know people on twitter
00:04:50.400
who um are associating themselves with uh apolloism etc um but i'll just uh i'll start out with that i've
00:04:59.740
i've never been hostile towards him i've never said an unkind word uh towards him before this but
00:05:06.160
he's he obviously feels uh very threatened um if something is uh ridiculous or something like that
00:05:13.460
it's just a bunch of americans i mean uh coming up with some weird cults about a gay person who they
00:05:19.560
think is northern european that's uh obviously a um maybe some kernels of the making up a new religion
00:05:26.620
i i think that's something we might want to dilate on but uh it's obviously a a mischaracterization
00:05:32.620
so why are you saying it i mean you know i mean tom surely is intelligent enough to know that he's
00:05:38.380
mischaracterizing us uh so why are you saying this the other curious thing and i'll just add this end
00:05:44.280
to tom because you know and granted i might be doing a little concern trolling myself but uh i i i think
00:05:51.840
he's moved away from this i did a brief uh look through just google searches and and so on about
00:05:59.620
his uh the colleagues he's he's working with but uh he seems to have had a um connection with breg
00:06:06.960
johnson and i think he's moved away from it uh over the past two years i i don't i don't see them
00:06:13.100
collaborating too much but i would remind him that you know homophobia is not tolerated among
00:06:20.480
gay nazi groups uh you know like gray johnson so i i would tread lightly tom um you don't want to
00:06:28.700
lose those associations with all these wonderful people um but yeah homophobia and gay behavior
00:06:35.260
like making little snipes like this and not even daring to mention us by name right i mean this this
00:06:41.660
kid also so here's the origin of this uh conflict if you if you can call it that uh tom read some
00:06:49.240
article of mine and this was around the time it was a while ago right and you'll you'll you're better
00:06:54.220
with dates than i am richard so you can fill in the blanks here but so we had that debate it was more of
00:07:00.600
a just a kind of friendly discussion with um stephen mcnell mcnellen who's a yeah the lead odinist
00:07:07.460
in uh not only north america probably the world so he's you know he he is knowledgeable in norse
00:07:14.540
mythology and we had a friendly discussion with him and i put forth my thesis which i don't think
00:07:20.560
is effectively better refuted and i actually think that the thesis has i think that he's actually
00:07:25.300
kind of because i think that he may have reacted to that because we were we were watching a video
00:07:30.900
and it seems that he's now taking a cynical view of snorri strollson right he's kind of like snorri
00:07:37.740
strollson should not really be representative of north smith now right well snorri strollson is where
00:07:43.200
we'd get all our information about north smith he's a primary text of north smith emerging you
00:07:49.880
know uh snorri strollson was himself a christian merchant i think it's probable or possible at least
00:07:55.580
that he was a crypto jew uh if you read um you know and you know in norse mythology itself is a kind
00:08:02.480
of brilliant mythology that i think that was probably invented by jews right i mean that's my thesis and
00:08:08.620
i think and i have number a number of reasons to back that up um the mythology itself seems to be
00:08:15.420
referential both to the hebrew bible and to the new testament right so for example uh with leviathan
00:08:21.920
we see the equivalent with the midgard serpent they're both kind of slain in ragnarok uh we see uh
00:08:29.220
balder who's recognized by mythographers as being kind of a reference either to adonis or jesus he dies
00:08:34.900
and his death brings about brings about this apocalypse and then he appears at the end of
00:08:40.200
the apocalypse and after all the gods have died i.e paganism has died and now the world is ruled by
00:08:46.860
this one christ-like uh figure named balder uh you know there's uh there's a garden of idin or rather
00:08:54.820
there's a character a goddess named idin who is a goddess of golden apples right and mythographers
00:09:01.660
recognize this as probably being a reference to the garden of eden right uh you know hebrew is
00:09:08.020
discussed in the preference uh in the preface of uh snorri soul uh snorri uh strollsons um opus
00:09:16.260
uh which is the foundation of norse mythology uh the prosetta right so my thesis is this is a strong
00:09:25.120
one and it's the most plausible explanation uh for that myth body uh now he says that i have no
00:09:32.240
evidence for it but there is actually no rebuttal i mean i i'm unaware of him like critiquing my specific
00:09:38.400
art uh um arguments on this point you know uh you know but it's uh it's it's a uh composite myth so
00:09:45.320
it's a derivative of earlier myth bodies including the hebrew bible but also including norse mythology
00:09:50.860
you know it's it's a kind of characteristic work of gem i would argue right yeah and one of the
00:09:56.940
reasons it it doesn't seem like arians should be following it is because uh the god uh odin is an
00:10:05.720
equivalent has long been recognized even through the medieval period as a equivalent to mercury right
00:10:10.720
he's the kind of proto-jewish god essentially he's a deceiver he's a psychopomp he's um you know he
00:10:17.940
brings them to valhalla you know he has similarities to jesus as well he hangs on a tree right and if
00:10:24.520
you look at the greek in the new testament uh the the cross is also described as a tree so this is a
00:10:30.600
reference and this shit is this shit is young right it's relatively young the even the first fixed
00:10:36.260
rune stone uh in northern europe is like 300 ad right so the influence is coming from christianity
00:10:42.940
the hebrew bible there's other influences there as well but it's a kind of skilled uh work of symbol
00:10:49.920
uh you know symbolism right it's a it's a symbol wise myth body that's been developed that's
00:10:55.540
referencing earlier myth bodies it's much in the way that other you know earlier myth bodies are
00:11:00.540
developed whether it's greek mythology or the greek myth body and and civil right and and the other
00:11:06.380
thing i should say too is that the claim that i i'm not arguing for example that um
00:11:11.180
the greco-roman religion is is free of like some kind of semitic influence i think that's absurd
00:11:19.240
right i mean i think that i think that there's gem also in the uh the greco-roman myth body as well
00:11:25.620
right yes we're talking about a symbol wise people an intelligent symbol wise people that are certainly
00:11:33.060
more literate uh and able to create something like this than illiterate you know viking barbarians
00:11:38.640
right uh so this i argue is the origin of the myth body um you know and i think that the claim i think
00:11:47.000
it's the most plausible and i i you know i'm not going to kind of dilate fully and give my full thesis
00:11:52.640
here but that's the kind of general thesis right yeah well let me let me jump in here i mean because
00:11:57.980
we we don't know and there's not going to be i doubt it ever any kind of smoking gun evidence
00:12:05.620
of a claim that um odinism or germanic paganism is is a kind of christianized or or judia judaized
00:12:15.420
myth form there's not going to be smoking gun evidence the way you can well what would be the
00:12:22.000
requirement though what would be the requirement for that well some letter would we need a time
00:12:26.700
machine or a time machine or some diary entry of oh i've really fooled them this time they don't
00:12:34.120
know i'm jewish and that they're worshiping mercury ha ha ha i mean obviously nothing like that is
00:12:39.700
gonna uh is going to be found and so you can use well he's explicitly identified with mercury
00:12:47.020
now the question then tacitus said that the germans in tacitus said that the germans are
00:12:52.160
worshiping mercury and he was writing for a roman hercules right yeah and hercules yeah
00:12:57.320
um yeah but and and also like you can see this in the um i mean this is a very simple example of this
00:13:05.320
but you can see this in the days of the week um in uh french mercredi is is our wednesday uh that's
00:13:13.500
obviously a it's a mercury's day um our day is wednesday and it's a little bit difficult to see it
00:13:20.500
but that that actually is odin's day or voton's day um so this is these you you can see just through
00:13:29.300
something like the days of the week there's this interpretation and connection between odin and
00:13:34.580
mercury i think there's probably some uh interesting connection between odin and bacchus in terms of a
00:13:40.620
god of frenzy and madness uh as well but you know that's uh by and by but i mean this is the way that
00:13:48.980
you can make engage in informed speculation about the past and you can understand that these things
00:13:56.780
are parabolic and that they aren't they aren't like historical documents i mean we can look at jesus
00:14:04.500
christ and see very clear parallels that he is a a figure coming out of the hebrew bible uh isaiah and
00:14:14.860
daniel especially but but all all over the hebrew bible he's also related to david as as the genealogy
00:14:22.680
and and matthew and luke i think say so he's coming out of that text and then you can also look at his
00:14:30.380
deeds and the way he is depicted and begin associating him with other gods it's a god who turns water into
00:14:37.680
wine it's a god who rise who descends into hell and rises again is he connect is he connected on the
00:14:44.860
first case with a god like bacchus um might there be a adonis or dying and rising god quality to him
00:14:52.900
of you know adonis who's you know beloved by aphrodite and he has to die and descend go into
00:14:59.040
the underworld and visit persephone for a while and they have a love affair and then he comes back again
00:15:05.200
so there's a kind of cyclical and seasonal aspect that you can see that myth repeated in the gospels
00:15:13.460
of jesus christ and just the image of jesus christ that we we've inherited from christianity so no we
00:15:19.720
can't know any of this for certain but we can engage in in in a kind of mythic genealogy so to speak
00:15:28.800
or a kind of informed speculation about where these things are coming from and where uh and and uh and
00:15:37.840
and their kind of evolution and change through connections with pre-existing myths and you can
00:15:43.680
also try to reach a kind of dating process of you know aspects of the hebrew i mean this is the most
00:15:51.640
obvious one but the flood narrative is that a kind of spin on gilgamesh which is assuredly uh um
00:16:01.980
written and propagated uh centuries uh before the hebrew bible can you kind of then start to kind of date
00:16:09.700
these things and see one as a kind of evolution or spinoff or or critique even of earlier myths so this is
00:16:19.700
these are the tools that we have at hand this is the material that we have at hand and this is how we
00:16:25.760
can do things and he's he's also just he's he's like what i see from people like this is that they want
00:16:33.660
to engage in some kind of rehearsal so we were listening to some other uh um interviews by him
00:16:41.300
and he's like well you know i was a try as as a young catholic school boy i was attracted to greek myths
00:16:47.900
and so on but you know i'm not greek and so i have to you know uh you know dedicate myself to english
00:16:53.900
paganism or uh germanic paganism etc and and it's kind of like well no you don't actually you're just
00:17:01.060
engaging in some sort of petty nationalism you know in this way like i i'm gonna engage in the religion
00:17:09.420
of my forefathers and not the christian one of course but i'm gonna go back to this one point that i've
00:17:16.040
discovered and that's true and i'm gonna engage in a kind of rehearsal of what they did um that is
00:17:22.360
entirely unnecessary and indeed in tom's own um you know youtube wikipadian uh videos on the uh the
00:17:35.860
progress of arians uh throughout the ages you see evolution you see movement you see conquest and
00:17:45.040
domination you see uh ethnic cleansing all over the place this is a people of movement and change and
00:17:55.000
evolution and to fixate on one period in time and then think you're like authentic because you are
00:18:05.460
obsessed with this one moment of our history and that you can't in a way be inspired by other
00:18:13.160
moments or at least recognize that there's transition and change and creatively try to reach
00:18:21.160
something that would resonate with people in the 21st century you just kind of can't do that because
00:18:27.280
it's not authentic i mean i'm just gonna be frank um this reminds me of like goofy dumb civil war
00:18:36.900
reenactors or just like these goofballs who want to like cling to tradition in an antiquarian fashion
00:18:46.100
and in the words of nietzsche they they want to they think of history as a way of smelling the furniture
00:18:52.180
of the past and if he wants to do that and if he wants to engage in i don't know some druid worship
00:18:59.280
or or odinism like like knock yourself out i don't i don't really have a problem with that but let's
00:19:07.920
recognize it for what it is you know next to nothing about what you are practicing and again he is a
00:19:15.000
practicing pagan so i'm not i i'm not like you know insulting him by by claiming that he's just going
00:19:22.880
out of the woods and and you know running around the fire and listening to black metal so he is
00:19:28.520
he is criticizing us practicing pagan you have no earthly idea what actual practices were you can only
00:19:37.480
use and form speculation and you're kind of fixating on this thing as a kind of new mystery cult you know
00:19:45.940
it's like you don't know what this is about you don't know what they're doing you're just rehearsing
00:19:50.980
it and reiterating it without actually like critically evaluating it or oh you know heaven
00:19:58.740
forbid creatively attempting to generate a religion that is actually relevant for people living in the
00:20:07.680
21st century as opposed to goofballs who want to you know reinvent the middle ages or god knows what
00:20:15.300
all right end of rant yeah i mean he's criticizing us essentially for not being a cargo call right
00:20:22.760
because and he doesn't have familiarity with us so if we happen to misrepresent him he's
00:20:28.360
misrepresented us and based on a lack of familiarity it would seem i nowhere do we state or do we aspire
00:20:35.740
to be to be recreating um the apollo cult in some perfect manner i mean we're actually critical
00:20:42.900
of a lot of a lot of the myths and rituals right and we're looking at them in a kind of critical
00:20:47.840
manner to sort of decipher what their significance is and uh so we're not just going to kind of
00:20:54.800
blindly sort of follow the rituals of ancients uh you know uh in some of these mystery cults because
00:21:02.980
we want to know what the significance of these symbols are and what they mean and
00:21:06.840
in what they signify and their sort of psychic and um spiritual power you know should symbolically
00:21:14.480
is it actually you know something that is healthy for us to be making this ritualistic gesture for
00:21:21.320
example or you know we we want to understand the symbols right so this is a work of deconstruction to
00:21:27.880
some extent a work of analysis and then eventually a work of construction based on
00:21:32.820
uh you know an agreed upon knowledge of symbols uh so that's that's more our project we're not just
00:21:40.760
hoping to kind of like you know uh larp basically as you know people at the temple of delphi
00:21:48.100
you know thousands of years ago you know in rituals that actually can't be recreated because there's not
00:21:56.060
enough information really to kind of piece them together uh in a completely accurate manner i mean
00:22:00.940
they can be roughly sort of recreated but then we have to wonder well you know what is this what do
00:22:05.760
these symbols represent what does this symbolism represent do we are we interested in recreating it
00:22:10.780
what is it saying you know and i and i think that it can these symbols can be understood and i for
00:22:18.860
example i think that jews are a symbol wise group and i think that they understand their religion you
00:22:24.200
know it might be mysterious to us but i think that they you know not all jews of course understand their
00:22:28.760
religion and probably the majority of jews don't understand their religion but i think that there
00:22:32.880
is a kind of core of knowers gnostics whatever term you want to use who understand their religion
00:22:39.420
and if you're going to practice religion you should understand your religion uh so that's more of our
00:22:45.460
project and he's ignorant of what our project is um and uh you know the so the guy's claiming in he
00:22:53.720
he's i mean the the his critique is so primitive and stupid i i just don't even really know where to
00:23:01.280
begin uh so uh he's saying that um you know we're americans so that we shouldn't be practicing
00:23:08.560
you know a mediterranean religion for example but he says in the same critique that it's well it may
00:23:14.540
have started in anatolia right i don't know if that's accurate but if it started in anatolia
00:23:20.100
it was indo-european or it was arian whatever term now he's getting fussy about this term arian right
00:23:26.480
uh which is a completely valid and legitimate term um though i think actually the better term is
00:23:33.200
apollonian i would advocate for the term apollonian uh but i think it's it's certainly a kind of
00:23:39.700
sufficient term and it describes what we're getting at and it is a racial um characterization
00:23:45.620
uh of apollo apollo is a blonde god a hyperborean god a northern invader he's described very clearly
00:23:53.900
in physical terms as an arian figure uh northern descended hyperborean more clearly than any of the
00:24:00.980
gods in the norse myth right i mean again uh odin appears to be a kind of semitic figure thor as well
00:24:08.660
i would say as a semitic figure and i would say that the myth genealogy there he derives uh ultimately
00:24:15.680
from an idean cult on crete most likely uh as a dactyl there named hercules who will then become
00:24:22.880
the familiar hercules who is the hero wearing the club he starts off as a a smithforged dwarf of sorts
00:24:29.820
an attendant of vulcan so an equivalent to vulcan and this accounts for the hammer that thor will have
00:24:35.980
later in the midst in the norse mythology and this transition uh you know uh this kind of
00:24:41.420
this transition from hercules worship to uh thor worship happens during the migration period where
00:24:48.560
we see um the clubs of thor being replaced by the or rather the clubs of hercules being replaced by the
00:24:56.300
hammers of thor it happens during a period of christianization actually in fact uh yeah and i make
00:25:03.440
the argument that the norse myth may represent a kind of um you know christian rock a way of
00:25:10.280
getting you know a kind of more badass myth to kind of uh indoctrinate uh these barbarians in a kind of
00:25:17.740
more subliminal fashion toward christianity christian rock is a really good yeah you know i mean that's a
00:25:25.260
kind of theory as to you know why this developed why this exists you know i mean so it becomes a way of
00:25:30.260
like you know getting them comfortable with a hanging god essentially which is what christ is
00:25:35.920
right so in the idea that odin is a hanging god predates jesus it's just ridiculous i mean it's
00:25:41.980
just like a cope it's just a cope you know i mean and it's like you know i and honestly i you know we're
00:25:48.740
all descended from barbarians you know even jews of course at some point are descended from barbarians
00:25:53.980
but they also but they're a more urban people and they've been at urban people for a longer period
00:25:59.520
of time and they're myth bearers and they're kind of skilled at the development of parable and the use
00:26:04.840
of symbol i mean you just got to give them credit you know i mean and uh and so this is most likely
00:26:11.460
what's occurring um with this myth body and you know in in i don't know i i guess the guy has now
00:26:17.180
backed off snorri straws right so i i don't know if he's still promoting thor or not i don't know what the
00:26:23.240
guy's doing i think he's retreated into like studying the most primitive manifestation of
00:26:28.520
these sort of proto-indo-europeans or these proto-aryans uh and so he's studying you know
00:26:35.760
our ancestors at at their kind of most primitive point which is interesting from a kind of
00:26:41.480
archaeological perspective i mean the guy you know didn't want to fuck with me ever then that would
00:26:46.100
be fine i think the guy can yeah we don't have a problem yeah i don't have that yeah that's cool
00:26:50.400
yeah you know that stuff's interesting but it's like if you're presenting that as a kind of ideal
00:26:55.260
that we should revert to like you know step tribes these barbaric step tribes or whatever
00:27:01.180
that we should just go for drug mode i mean is that you know and this is something that nietzsche
00:27:05.360
warned against this idea of vikingism is what he called it but he's yeah he's he seems to be
00:27:11.860
promoting a kind of primitivism or barbarianism which is just grug dumb you know i mean yeah that's
00:27:19.400
that's my my sense of it yeah you know so he's saying apollo's from anatolia uh you know who who
00:27:26.760
knows that may be the case no one really knows he's an arian figure as i've already described in
00:27:31.240
in certainly in the greco-roman context as he develops his figure apollo or you know but there
00:27:36.800
are earlier precedents of in sumerian myth for example we have a shamash who's a sun god his name
00:27:43.540
actually is still in the hebrew right it's the word for sun in the hebrew and um he's a he's in
00:27:50.740
early form he's a kind of proto-apollo he's got the chariot whole whole deal right so uh and
00:27:58.620
but certainly as he develops and there as well i would argue as well but you know he develops into
00:28:07.460
a kind of arian figure he's he was equated by herodotus with uh raw and horus and these sun
00:28:13.120
gods he has a solar aspect to him he's arian figure um but yeah so the idea that we're in america so yeah
00:28:20.040
let's say let's say he was from anatolia but then he ended up in greece and he ended up in rome
00:28:27.020
and then he was worshipped in different forms by the gulls and but you know by the germans
00:28:33.460
right so it seems like the god got around he was moving around uh religions are also portable of
00:28:41.400
course i mean there are christians in america but you know jesus was in ancient uh jerusalem and
00:28:48.720
gal uh galilee so how's that work i mean shouldn't shouldn't only people that live in galilee
00:28:55.120
because we're american should we embrace yeah native american spirituality or something i mean
00:29:00.940
yeah i mean it's the guy is just not coherent basically i mean he's kind of mindless i mean
00:29:07.700
you know he's he's he acts kind of pretentious and like he's a badass but it's kind of dumb i mean
00:29:12.800
his critique is very dumb uh if i'm being honest you know and i think that he's getting irritated by us
00:29:19.660
because people are saying oh brahman's got some interesting ideas what do you think and they're
00:29:24.000
spamming the guy's chat or something so now the guy's getting pissed off
00:29:27.080
you know i mean good yeah yeah uh we're here to stay we're gonna take over dude sorry uh and the
00:29:34.100
other thing his other critique um about apollo being homosexual gay because you know a lot of
00:29:40.600
the grugs that follow his content that are like yeah we should return to being step idiots or whatever
00:29:45.460
uh so those people you know who are interested in these pre-civilizational religions for which we
00:29:53.360
have almost no knowledge right you know forget about reconstructing rome and greece where there
00:29:58.640
were actual civilizations where people built temples that we still have today and they weren't just like
00:30:05.380
you know i mean i don't want to go to like um e michael jones here but you know it was a relatively
00:30:11.540
primitive barbaric conditions in northern europe at that point right and uh you know in in he's it seems
00:30:19.580
like he wants to kind of veer more in that direction uh where and and i think again he's
00:30:26.100
moved off the north stuff or or at least snorri strollson which is you know the bible it's the source
00:30:32.740
it's the main source of that stuff um so he's moved off that and now he's talking about um you know these
00:30:41.080
basically these carvings and tombs of solar wheels and like so now he's i mean at least he's kind of
00:30:46.800
like you know so all our takes are are picked up at some point by other people in the dr they
00:30:52.900
eventually come to us right so he's leaning into the solar cult now um and uh yeah you know but it's
00:31:00.740
primitive and uh there's the they're not people that are civilizational you know civilizational
00:31:07.680
people so they're not kind of imitable people you know unless you're one of these kind of dr like
00:31:12.740
collapsed terrians and think that we should like you know move out into the woods and abandon the
00:31:18.520
political struggle with this sort of thing uh you know that might be your position and uh but it is a
00:31:24.800
it is a grug level position and you know and it's not you know you know in religion you know we look
00:31:33.020
at christianity for example christianity clearly had a kind of uh religio-political goal ultimately
00:31:40.600
uh as does judaism and uh you know and it manifested it as something powerful in the world
00:31:46.400
um and that seems like a good goal for religion to be power seeking uh to be involved in civilization
00:31:53.680
and the construction of civilization and culture uh and to uh work towards the amelioration
00:32:01.080
and survival of positive forms of culture and civilization that should be the goal of religion it
00:32:07.420
shouldn't be just you know retreating out into the woods and um getting a bunch of grugs like about
00:32:12.940
some you know uh you know caveman carvings uh you know so i mean i i think that uh we it is true we
00:32:21.480
are not alike tom you and i um we're not alike uh the uh and but to address the homosexual question
00:32:29.600
right because this is the thing that this is his real like a gotcha oh tom are you were there gay
00:32:35.740
guys in greece come on dude no there weren't gay guys in greece that's impossible yeah we were aware
00:32:41.860
that there were homosexuals in greece and we were aware that there uh is a kind of pederastic
00:32:46.520
there was a cult of pederasty in greece as well that had an origin especially in crete and also
00:32:54.580
thebes and we don't consider that origin to be arian uh to be uh gentle about it um and so and that
00:33:05.060
represents a kind of period of time in greek history and there was a pre-period when that
00:33:10.040
wasn't practiced um but we look at some of the myths some of some of the myths which appear to
00:33:15.840
have a kind of semitic inflection or influence including homer right including um the homeric
00:33:23.200
hymns uh there's messaging in there that essentially fits gem uh you know this is the kind of cleverness
00:33:30.000
and and intelligence of these what we would call proto-jews i think at that point um uh so that
00:33:36.960
they're they're involved early on in the development of greek culture now a at what point you know are
00:33:45.240
they there at the formation of for example the cult of apollo or the cult of zeus uh you know it's
00:33:51.900
possible certainly uh or do these represent kind of corruptions of an earlier development that's
00:33:57.900
also possible i mean certainly what we do see there in the cult of zeus and uh um apollo is that
00:34:05.720
we see uh the earth mother gods and thonic serpent gods are overthrown for uh figures that represent
00:34:14.140
arians essentially uh that have uh you know there are sky gods celestial eye gods celestial sky gods um
00:34:20.980
that represent arians and uh that that is clear apollo being one of them um all right so the the
00:34:27.960
cultic uh padaresti it is it is something that develops in greece of course but you know these
00:34:32.860
things actually develop when you have a civilization when you actually have power in the world you you do
00:34:39.380
develop these kind of uh decadent aspects of your civilization over a period of time uh there's also
00:34:44.600
something called civilizational decline uh where these things develop you know these kind of maladies
00:34:50.000
you could argue right uh so i mean you know think before you talk dude because the other thing too
00:34:56.640
i would say about you tom is that tom you know you came in and attacked my argument and i said uh okay
00:35:02.960
cool let's get on a stream and have a friendly cordial discussion of this you fled you fled right tell
00:35:10.200
your barbarian brothers that dude and um you know hail apollo bitch