Brooks Brothers has fallen, factories have closed, and thousands of employees have been furloughed or fired. Bankruptcy now seems imminent. What does Brooks Brothers' demise tell us about consumer behavior and the decline of taste and manners? And, more broadly, what does it spell for the human condition to be enveloped in plastic, uniform garments that suck the soul dry of aspiration and meaning? Should luxury be defended? The McSpencer Group discusses.
00:02:39.960And that seems to be coming to an end.
00:02:44.560And so I actually do think it's rather sad.
00:02:49.760I have a number of Brooks Brothers staples.
00:02:52.900I have some Brooks Brothers dress shirts, some corduroy pants, a sweater or two.
00:02:57.880I'm not a huge Brooks Brothers fan, but I do think that they have some good stuff.
00:03:06.040But I think Brooks Brothers, along with, you know, you could say Jay Press, you know, went a different path.
00:03:13.100They maintained a kind of higher-end, actual haberdashery type of company.
00:03:20.620But it is a unique American company, and it is a bastion of the prep or Ivy style, some nautical elements, some Ivy League elements, maybe some English gentleman elements as well.
00:03:36.420If you could buy an ascot somewhere in America, you would probably find one at Brooks Brothers.
00:03:43.500So I think it's kind of a sad state of the decline of culture, but I think it's also kind of a sad state in terms of the decline of just the concept of menswear and clothing in general,
00:03:57.460in the sense that a lot of these companies, the bigger ones, including Ralph Lauren, who got his Leibovitz, got his start in Brooks Brothers as a Brooks Brothers salesman before he became a fashion designer, by the way.
00:04:11.940But a lot of them kind of went down this path that was kind of like a penny wise, a pound foolish.
00:04:20.540It led to higher profits and higher brand awareness, but it ultimately led to dissolution of their brand and, in the case of Brooks Brothers, at least bankruptcy.
00:04:34.120And that is the whole outlet mall culture.
00:04:37.500So about 10 years ago, when we had the 2008 crisis, people were in a very bad mood.
00:04:48.380The stock market had crashed, companies were going under, and they started to see all these kind of 40% off sales, and they got used to this concept.
00:04:59.960And the outlet mall was also something that was arising in the 90s.
00:05:05.680I can remember when I was a young person, the original outlet malls were kind of true to themselves outlet malls.
00:05:14.960I remember when we would go to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to go skiing as a family, there was actually a Ralph Lauren outlet mall.
00:05:21.880And there you could find, say, last season's clothes or clothes that had a minor defect in them and were half off or something like that.
00:05:29.540But they actually were the high-quality Ralph Lauren material and clothes.
00:05:35.380They were the thing that you could buy in New York City, but now you could buy in Wyoming at 50% off, you know, nine months later.
00:05:42.740But the outlet malls became a kind of Frankenstein's monster where people were so used to getting 20% or 40% off that that's all that they would do.
00:05:54.220And it's kind of like only a fool pays retail.
00:05:58.220And so they started buying more and more at the outlet malls.
00:06:00.680And then these companies, again, they created this Frankenstein monster that had a life of its own.
00:06:05.600They started making items for the outlet mall.
00:06:09.120So they would have some high-end retail in their New York City branch or whatever.
00:06:15.780Then they would basically create Malaysian or China-made material that was just the kind of stuff that you would get at Target or Walmart that they were selling at their outlet malls under the Brooks Brothers brand.
00:06:31.120I remember Ed and I, actually, we stopped by an outlet mall when we were visiting the sand dunes of Illinois.
00:07:19.300But, yeah, I mean, and so, anyway, I don't want to make this too much, like, you know, avuncular advice, but I did a podcast a couple years ago where we just talked about menswear.
00:07:32.940I think we did that for under the paywall, but I'll just put it up for free now.
00:07:38.080But we were, you know, strongly suggesting that you kind of change your mindset in terms of menswear, where you purchase, you know, shoes that cost, not cost $80, but cost $400 or more.
00:07:54.280And you know that this is going to last a decade, maybe even two, and you're going to get them resold and so on.
00:08:00.500And it ultimately is kind of, it's ultimately cheaper, because those $80 ones are not meant to last.
00:08:06.700You're going to buy those same pair of shoes eight or ten times.
00:08:10.140And as opposed to buying one pair of shoes, it's better, you're more proud of it, and you can get it resold.
00:08:30.500And it ultimately saves money, but it's more, I don't know, it's just about having a different mindset.
00:08:37.140And I think there is this kind of moment where most of America got in this mindset of, you know, I want to buy it at the outlet mall, I want to get 20% off.
00:08:46.240And it ultimately destroyed these companies that are kind of institutions.
00:08:50.800Because part of the Brooks Brothers aura is, it's better.
00:09:22.080Well, the interesting thing, though, is one of the things I noticed is that menswear promoters themselves, like you can watch channels or read books or buy people who promote menswear, who actually contribute to this whole situation.
00:09:35.740Because a large portion of their writing is about how you can get it at the outlet on sale, right?
00:10:04.740And then that's kind of that mystique is going away because it's like, well, you could go on eBay, you could go on Etsy, you could wait for it to go on the outlet, right?
00:10:10.640And it's like this process where they've actually contributed to the situation we're in now.
00:10:16.620And I mean, in some ways, it's not, I mean, I could be sad about it, but there is some good like smaller designers of good quality made menswear that you could find like online and locally who are, I guess, benefiting from the situation.
00:10:30.820And the symbolic aspect of wearing a nice suit, in a way, is becoming stronger now because it's not as common anymore.
00:10:38.360Like casual clothing in the workplace, for example, is a big thing now.
00:10:42.700But if you wear like a good tailored suit just on a normal day and go out to like a bar or a restaurant, you're going to get treated very differently.
00:10:51.160And so it's just in a way, yeah, it's sad, but there is some benefits to it for, you know, men themselves who know how to wear good menswear and appreciate the symbolic value and the social value that comes with it.
00:11:13.640There was a black gentleman who served me and he was extremely polite and he was, you know, made you feel at home and welcome and looked after you.
00:11:22.160And it wasn't just some obnoxious teenage chewing gum saying, you know, what do you want?
00:11:26.620It was properly done, like a proper department store.
00:11:29.840And I thought it was I thought it was very nice.
00:12:06.900You've got to keep these things going or they or they die out.
00:12:09.960You know, eventually it becomes a state.
00:12:12.140It becomes a statement to not have an open neck shirt.
00:12:15.120So that's how much we sort of reverse things.
00:12:17.960And I think you make a very good point about this issue of quality over over cheapness or whatever, mass production.
00:12:25.400The idea that what must it do to the psyche to be surrounded by expensive, nice, but nice, nice, well-made things, which which which have been handmade, but have a great deal of love, but a great deal of effort and planning.
00:12:44.180And yeah, perfectionism put into them compared to being surrounded by things which have been cheaply made by foreign people at low prices will break easily and be chucked away.
00:12:57.860And I wonder if that's what does it like to wear clothes and to be surrounded by people wearing clothes, which, again, have been well-made and, you know, family tradition and all this and sort of back into history and all this and as against clothes which have just been mass produced in in Vietnam and will be thrown away within a few years.
00:13:16.960And I think it's a similar effect to what does it do to the psyche to be surrounded by beautiful, well, they didn't have to be old, but they normally will be old buildings with ornate decoration and whatever of the kind.
00:13:29.720When I was in Chicago that you saw these 1920s big skyscrapers with little details and all this, you know, all these little details carefully done to look kind of beautiful in their own way compared to what is done now, just brutalist, unpleasant architecture.
00:13:47.440And I think that's the that's it's another means of repression.
00:13:50.720It's another means of putting people down and making them depressed, of making them the kind of consumerist automata to have them wearing these just cheap, horrible Chinese Communist Party overalls, really, as opposed to things that have been that have been well-made.
00:14:07.380And it's like the difference between having a nice, you know, lovely food in that whatever that club was you took me to as as as as as compared to having a McDonald's.
00:14:23.220Yeah, I mean, we can't ignore all the research around in clothed cognition.
00:14:27.720Right. It's the idea there that the actual clothing you're choosing to wear is that this symbolic representation actually does play a causal role in how you behave when it comes to your
00:14:37.180alertness or the way you deal with problems.
00:14:39.520Right. Like if you put up if you if you assign someone a task and give them a lab coat versus a painter's coat when they've done these studies is that they tend to miss more details when they're wearing the painter's coat.
00:14:51.020Right. But you also have a situation where the whole culture, as I was saying, is moving towards this more bland, casual style, like sweatpants everywhere or yoga pants or whatever have you.
00:15:03.180We all know where you all see it when you go outside is it's the fact that consciousness and how we view ourselves is not just for our own bodies and for our own mental state, our own alertness.
00:15:53.680We are strongly involved, these strongly bonded social groups in which we are deeply affected by everybody around us and in which our genes can only be optimally expressed if we are surrounded by other people who are genetically healthy.
00:16:06.760If we're surrounded by people that are unfit, then it will affect our genes and our lives and our fitness.
00:16:13.060There was a very interesting paper on this many years ago which found that depression is literally, literally contagious.
00:16:18.060If you are with somebody who is depressed for genetic reasons, then you can become depressed for environmental reasons just because you're with that person.
00:16:25.360And in much the same way, in a minor way, but if you're with someone that just couldn't give a toss, who's just scruffy, who's just whatever, just lives for the now, couldn't care less.
00:16:35.420And that will that will that will trickle throughout society that will spread throughout society and make the society in a sense less optimal, less focused towards the transcendent, less focused towards the it's very interesting thing in the UK called chapism.
00:16:52.740It's a light hearted thing with the chap manifesto and the chap magazine and the idea is to kind of recreate the styles and mores of the fifties or whatever.
00:17:02.400Now, the chap manifesto, it's very, very funny.
00:17:05.160I wrote an article for them once on how Finland's president Manaheim was chap.
00:17:11.200That's what I try and do with the cravat and whatever is a spread, a little bit of positivity throughout society.
00:17:18.260That's what you're doing. If you're if you're wearing these degraded kind of clothes, then it's just spreading this negativity.
00:17:23.640This couldn't care less. Nothing matters.
00:17:25.800And if you go, interestingly, to countries that are still religious societies or even just to Eastern Europe, one of the things that's very interesting is the way in which they dress.
00:17:34.600They've got no money. They've got much less money than Western people have.
00:17:38.260But what they put money into and one of the things that is very important to them is looking good, is dressing well,
00:17:44.860is kind of expressing a desire for something better and something eternal.
00:17:52.580It matters. I matter and how we look matter.
00:17:57.040And you get this difference in Finland. You see they just wear awful clothes, tracksuits and things like this.
00:18:02.700Whereas if you go to Southern Europe, it's very different.
00:18:05.900Even India, how they dress is really it matters and it sort of spreads a certain positivity, I think.
00:18:10.700Yeah, and I think it's it's also a bit ambiguous.
00:18:14.420I was I was thinking about the famous slogan of Patek Philippe, which is a Swiss watch manufacturer that it's it was something to the effect.
00:18:27.660You don't own a Patek Philippe. You're simply it's custodian for the next generation.
00:18:33.220And that that, you know, look, a lot of that is is like middle class aspiration of they want to think of themselves as aristocratic.
00:18:42.760I think that's actually a good thing. So I don't really want to criticize it too hard.
00:18:47.860But it's also a true thing. You know, you can buy a a a Calatrava or a Nautilus and this should last 80 to 100 years at minimum.
00:19:00.460You should not you should service it. You should absolutely not replace it as opposed to an Apple watch or or or something that is built to last two years, three years at most.
00:19:11.100And then it's you know, you can't even literally use the Apple watch after four years because they're not supporting its software.
00:19:16.720And it's just a piece of junk in your in your drawer.
00:19:19.780But yeah, I think that, you know, and that kind of mentality actually is something good that we should be promoting for the the middle class.
00:19:30.200It was kind of like what I was saying by by a five hundred dollar pair of shoes that you're going to resole and own for 15 years.
00:19:38.080That's that's reasonable. You'll wear them out at some point, but you'll actually have worn them out and not just toss them because they they're made out of faux leather and they look like crap after, you know, three months.
00:19:49.480And there's this kind of like other aspect to it, which I think is also kind of mentioned.
00:19:54.600There's this, you know, I mean, that's the kind of positive value that luxury items can bring to someone's life.
00:20:01.240And I think it's actually very it's a good thing. It's it's it's deep superficiality.
00:20:06.800It's it's a good kind of frivolous kind of thing.
00:20:10.380But there's this other aspect to it of like almost the cargo cult of the the, you know, really wealthy Arab chic or, you know, you know, massively indebted, you know, new new money China where they buy, you know, gold Rolex with, you know, gummy bear jewel or jewels and encrusted diamonds.
00:20:32.560And it's almost this like you're almost like taking it, you're you're you're ruining it because, you know, the idea is that you can pass something on or you can wear kind of your watch.
00:20:43.860You can have a collection for, you know, 50 years and they're almost taking it the cargo culting it of like saying, you know, I own this.
00:20:51.600Therefore, I am as opposed to saying, like, I'm going to treat this as a symbol of who I am.
00:20:58.060And and, you know, there there is a kind of I don't know, you could say dark side or kind of side of it.
00:21:07.020But but I think overall, like there's something that I would strongly say that there's there's there's a kind of like morality to the luxury sphere that is actually quite positive and that I would endorse for people.
00:21:23.240And I think they should they should aspire to be a part of it in the right way.
00:21:28.060Yeah, well, I was going to say, like, with the prudence to actually purchase a pair of shoes that's going to last you 15 years, spend a bit more does play into cultivating a certain kind of virtue that you do find in higher quality menswear that you don't find if you're just trying to be frugal and in the moment all the time.
00:21:48.240Right. Is it does cultivate a certain attitude that you're not going to get if you don't try to pursue an end like that.
00:21:54.440Right. And it's why you look at a lot of like menswear guides and magazines is there that in between talking about the clothes and the fittings, there's also a lot about, you know, gentleman manners and virtues and how to talk to each other.
00:22:08.300Like these two things go hand in hand for a reason.
00:22:11.360And I just quote from the chap manifesto, a call to charms.
00:23:50.680I mean, Tyler is in Western Canada where there's really the same culture as in Montana.
00:23:59.940I would say in Montana, the style is almost there is some remnants of the Western style, but then it's almost now more like the Patagonia style where you're wearing like it looks like you're about to go on like an Arctic hike or something, but you're not.
00:24:20.760You're just going to store that's almost replaced like wearing the belt buckle or the bowler or the Western coat.
00:24:29.500It's hard to even find those items now, even though, yeah, they're a bit kitschy, but I actually kind of like them.
00:24:36.320Like when it's done well, it's done well.
00:24:40.060What was chappish about Western Canada when I was there was the images of Her Majesty in public places.