RadixJournal - The Satanic Verses

00:00:00.000 Gentlemen, welcome back to the Bad Out of Hell Death Cast. I am your host, Beazelbub.

00:00:12.960 Just kidding. This is Counter Signal with Richard Spencer.

00:00:21.240 I don't know if I've ever been called a satanic before. I've been called a lot of names.

00:00:26.340 You know, the whole gamut from the historical lexicon, you know, Hitler being the most useful for our enemies. 0.99

00:00:37.680 But I've never been called the devil, and I kind of like it. I think it's a good look. 1.00

00:00:44.460 It makes us dangerous. I might grow a goatee and start wearing black and red or something like that. It's kind of fun.

00:00:56.340 But anyway, welcome to both of you, my friends, James Edwards and Hunter Wallace.

00:01:20.280 This is a very Southern podcast. Hey, y'all. How are you?

00:01:25.780 This is the most Southern podcast I've had, with the exception of when I hosted Dr. Michael Hill alone.

00:01:36.240 But welcome. And we're going to talk about the Southern Baptist Convention.

00:01:40.760 So, first off, before we talk about wider implications, and I do want to also talk about the history of Southern Baptist, the meaning of that denomination,

00:01:54.120 why don't we just talk about what happened this week?

00:01:57.460 So, I was following it, though in a rather cursory fashion.

00:02:02.640 But I had heard about a proposed amendment for the Southern Baptist Convention that was put forward by an African-American preacher that, you know, quoted lots of scripture.

00:02:14.360 And then basically, after all this justification from the Bible, he reached utterly PC conclusions where we must denounce the alt-right, but also we must denounce any ethno-nationalism.

00:02:29.420 I think that's maybe even more important than denouncing a particular movement in 2017.

00:02:38.000 So, this was a very, very bold claim.

00:02:42.080 It has actually wide-ranging implications.

00:02:45.640 It was put forward.

00:02:48.420 And then I was, again, I was following this situation on Twitter, but though in a, you know, rather cursory way.

00:02:55.000 And I did hear that it was not passed.

00:02:58.520 It was rejected.

00:02:59.800 That it was, you know, more, it did not have the votes to reach the floor.

00:03:04.180 And then all hell broke loose.

00:03:06.100 And then, lo and behold, after much prayer and soul-seeking, we were all denounced.

00:03:13.500 So, what did I get?

00:03:14.600 Why don't, Hunter, why don't you just start out?

00:03:18.040 What did I miss here?

00:03:19.380 Give us a little taste of all the politicking and, you know, chicanery going on with the situation. 1.00

00:03:27.820 Well, it's pretty much as you said there.

00:03:30.420 This was all caused by the – well, from what I read, the guy who spearheaded it was this black preacher, I think in Texas, and Russell Moore to denounce white supremacy and the alt-right.

00:03:45.480 And then they didn't really want to do it.

00:03:47.880 I think they shelved it.

00:03:48.860 And then the media criticized them.

00:03:51.980 And they're like, oh, my God, we're like a bunch of racists and a bunch of white supremacists if we don't do a, you know, a ritual virtue signaling condemnation at our annual conference.

00:04:03.260 I think last year it was the Confederate flag where they denounced anyone who used the Confederate flag.

00:04:09.400 And this year's resolution was denouncing the alt-right.

00:04:15.480 And it's hilarious.

00:04:17.860 I was reading it this morning or some coverage of it.

00:04:21.900 And they're like – it was like a fact based on the alt-right.

00:04:25.080 And they're like, well, the alt-right are not just white supremacists. 0.62

00:04:28.120 They're white nationalists. 0.71

00:04:29.280 They believe in white identity. 1.00

00:04:30.900 But white identity is satanic. 0.97

00:04:33.160 And I was just sitting here thinking to myself, I was just sitting here thinking to myself, aren't all these blacks, don't they have, like, their own black churches? 0.96

00:04:41.480 I mean, most of the black Baptists and the black Methodists, I know it's like the African Methodist Episcopal Church or something or the national –

00:04:54.920 you know, Martin Luther King Jr. and all the reverends, you know, Jackson, the Reverend Sharpton, and so forth, they're all members of this, you know, their own black denominations.

00:05:08.620 So you got literally – you got racially – I mean, it's like the black version of Christian identity. 0.99

00:05:16.040 Sure. 0.97

00:05:16.620 And these groups denounce us and are like, oh, God, these guys over here are terrible racists. 1.00

00:05:22.020 White identity is satanic. 1.00

00:05:23.980 Let me go back to my black denomination and my, you know, my black historically black college and university and denounce these evil racists who want to segregate America. 1.00

00:05:36.380 It's laughable. 0.98

00:05:38.640 You know, they're denouncing – they're denouncing white people. 0.96

00:05:43.320 They're not denouncing anyone else. 0.99

00:05:45.920 It's white identity, which is satanic. 1.00

00:05:47.920 It's not black identity, Hispanic identity, Asian identity. 0.98

00:05:52.260 In fact, like when they have their first black president a few years ago, that was a source of pride just because he was black. 0.88

00:05:59.980 So it's a farce. 0.81

00:06:02.420 That's all I can say.

00:06:03.020 I can add a little more layer to even what Hunter presented because I follow this with a fervent zeal, I guess you could say, having grown up Southern Baptist.

00:06:13.740 And the person who wrote this resolution, which read as if it had been written by an entry-level intern for Hillary Clinton's campaign, is a black pastor, as Brad mentioned, from Arlington, Texas.

00:06:27.340 His name is Dwight McKissick.

00:06:28.740 He's also the same man who wrote last year's anti-Confederate flag resolution, two resolutions condemning the alt-right and condemning the Confederate flag written by the same black pastor out of Texas.

00:06:42.300 So it was presented to the resolutions committee before the convention.

00:06:46.640 And the resolutions committee is the body that decides which resolutions will reach the messengers, which is what they call their delegates, and be presented to the floor for a vote.

00:06:57.180 It failed to come out of the committee.

00:07:00.760 Now, of course, this black pastor was not going to be content with that. 0.98

00:07:04.220 So he decided to present it on the floor.

00:07:08.420 You can do that, but if it doesn't come out of committee to present it on the floor, in order for it to have a hearing, it has to receive two-thirds majority vote.

00:07:16.500 It failed again.

00:07:17.720 That's the second time it failed.

00:07:19.820 Failed to receive the two-thirds vote when he presented it on the floor.

00:07:23.060 At that point, as Hunter mentioned, that's when all hell broke loose, and you had Soros' agents like Russell Moore, and you had the black identity pastor stirring up hell. 0.81

00:07:31.840 This pastor, who presented the resolution, actually started holding court with the press.

00:07:36.600 And so now you had the press started ginning up these the Southern Baptists refuse to reject white supremacy stories.

00:07:42.880 Everybody starts getting scared.

00:07:44.320 So, and we've got to understand that these people aren't going to be the people that lead you into battle if you look at these messengers.

00:07:53.500 They really are very weak, very soft, spiritually and physically.

00:07:57.540 And so, even though this is in violation of their own rules, they started rounding up their delegates, or messengers, if you will, in the middle of the night.

00:08:07.580 They brought them in there very late at night, near midnight, for a third vote.

00:08:13.040 The third vote also failed.

00:08:16.200 This is what I think even you and I didn't cover, Richard.

00:08:18.600 A third attempt to pass this resolution failed.

00:08:21.100 At that point, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, who is a pastor at a church in Memphis, where I'm from, said,

00:08:27.200 we're not going to leave until we get this right.

00:08:29.960 So they voted on it a fourth time the next afternoon.

00:08:33.520 And God only knows what happened after the third vote and the fourth vote.

00:08:37.540 God only knows how they got the near unanimous consent.

00:08:42.460 But after the fourth vote, it passed.

00:08:45.960 Out of 5,000 votes that were cast, one man voted no on the fourth time.

00:08:50.820 I would love to meet that one guy and take him out to dinner.

00:08:55.060 But what's interesting is—and then, of course, you know the rest of the story.

00:08:59.200 They denounce Satanism. 0.94

00:09:00.680 White nationalism is Satanism. 1.00

00:09:02.760 White supremacy is Satanism. 0.94

00:09:04.400 All of these things, which, of course, have we ever declared ourselves to be white supremacist or anti-Semitic or any of these other things?

00:09:10.100 I mean, certainly that's not how we would identify our very heartfelt and reasonable messages.

00:09:14.960 But what makes this interesting is not only was it presented by a black pastor, as you might expect,

00:09:20.040 this is a guy who publicly stated in October of last year that he was voting for Hillary Clinton

00:09:27.140 because the killing of unarmed black men by white police officers was the greatest pro-life issue of our generation. 0.91

00:09:37.060 And, of course, he pastors an all-black church.

00:09:41.080 And in addition to that, the Southern Baptist Convention had officially sanctioned groups such as the African-American Baptist,

00:09:49.920 the Korean Baptist, the Chinese Baptist, the Filipino Baptist.

00:09:53.380 And so, of course, it's not racial identity that they oppose.

00:09:56.800 It's white racial identity. 0.89

00:09:57.840 Even in this convention, a black man was elected to chair the Pastors Conference.

00:10:04.460 And as Hunter mentioned, there was, in fact, in 2012, Fred Luter out of New Orleans became the first president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

00:10:12.400 Well, apparently there had never been a president of the Southern Baptist Pastors Conference before that was black until this year.

00:10:17.660 And when that happened, of course, all of the whites and blacks alike said,

00:10:20.360 it's so great to have an African-American chair of this committee.

00:10:23.840 So, of course, racial identity exists for us if there's some sort of guilt attached or some inherited syntax.

00:10:32.860 So that really is the chain of events and the chronological timeline of what happened.

00:10:36.840 And then, of course, the spin from there has just been grotesque, embarrassing, and pitiful.

00:10:40.580 Right. And, of course, the Southern Baptists got no credit for this.

00:10:45.520 They were, like, denounced by the Washington Post.

00:10:49.360 I, you know, of, like, oh, they're still racist. Don't believe it.

00:10:53.520 But let me – I am a little bit curious about what to make of this.

00:10:57.840 Because I – a couple months ago, I actually read a book that I would recommend.

00:11:02.820 And it is a – it's by Robert Jones, and it's either called The Death of White America or The End of White America.

00:11:13.660 And it's actually very useful.

00:11:15.560 It's a very cucked book in its overall message and tone.

00:11:18.660 But it's actually very useful in looking at the decline of mainline – mainline Protestantism as a kind of national religion.

00:11:27.420 And he – one thing he said about the Southern Baptist Convention is that it is – if you look at it from a bird's-eye view, it is actually a very diverse congregation of faith.

00:11:39.580 But if you go down to a ground-level view, it's actually a checkerboard in the sense that the denominations are racially segregated, you know, basically in fact, if not in motivation or in law.

00:11:57.420 And the other thing about it is that I would say Southern Baptists are the kind of heart of what people would call evangelical America.

00:12:08.860 In this – of a Republican voting, generally pro-life, you know, family values, often – most often rural and suburban or overwhelmingly rural and suburban white people.

00:12:23.480 The core of the Republican vote, the core of what you could just say is, you know, normal, middle America or Southern America.

00:12:32.240 And so I am curious exactly what to make of all this because do you think it was failing – you know, I don't – I think it's a bit much to say that because those votes failed, that means that the Southern Baptists are alt-right or they're listening to this podcast.

00:12:49.760 Yes. I don't think that's the case, sadly.

00:12:52.540 I have a theory. I have a theory, and it's simply – probably they didn't really know what they were voting on, and probably most of them were not that familiar with the alt-right.

00:13:04.180 But in addition to that, membership in the Southern Baptist Church has declined for 10 consecutive years, which means, of course, for 10 consecutive years there have been less members than the year before.

00:13:16.100 After they passed the Confederate flag resolution last year, membership immediately dropped another 7 percent, 7 percent in the last year alone.

00:13:23.760 They were probably a little bit hesitant to tackle another controversial political issue.

00:13:29.220 Now, certainly, if you go and you talk to the average member of a Southern Baptist church, particularly one that's a little older, and they're comfortable with you, they will probably agree with us on most racial issues.

00:13:42.220 On the Jewish question, certainly not at all.

00:13:45.260 But I think that they were probably hesitant to tackle another controversial issue.

00:13:52.200 Yeah.

00:13:52.400 But then once it became a point of contention and you had the pressure from the head table coming down,

00:14:00.440 if we don't denounce white supremacy and this Satanism, the church is going to fold,

00:14:05.520 you've got to understand that most of the people in this, you know, obviously these messengers, if you looked at any of the pictures on Twitter, these are herd-like people. 0.70

00:14:13.640 And if they're getting the tough sell from Russell Moore, who is there as, I believe, a paid agent and some of these other head cucks, they're going to fall in the line.

00:14:21.200 And that's what happened.

00:14:22.240 Yeah.

00:14:22.660 And they do sense it in their hearts or in their bones.

00:14:26.060 They sense that this, they might agree with the surface of the proclamation that, oh, yes, we don't like white supremacy, we're all God's children, or what have you.

00:14:39.800 But they sense it in their bones that this is anti-them.

00:14:43.600 And they're right, of course.

00:14:45.040 It is completely anti-them.

00:14:46.400 But they're just using – it's not like the Southern Baptists were about to, you know, attend the MPI conference or start, you know, voting Richard Spencer to replace Russell Moore as their leader.

00:15:00.020 That's not going to happen.

00:15:01.920 So it was just a moral signal, basically.

00:15:05.520 But I think a lot of the people probably sensed it in their heart that this was just – this was about – it was anti-them.

00:15:11.520 It was demoralizing them, and it was moralizing not only, like, you know, non-white Baptists, but it was actually moralizing the liberal media. 0.87

00:15:22.440 It was moralizing people who hate their guts.

00:15:24.720 And they are absolutely right about that.

00:15:26.400 Well, I want to hear Hunter's take on this. 0.76

00:15:27.940 But don't – I can tell – especially these older people in their 60s and 70s, you don't want an obese, black, radical, racial agitator coming up and proposing this kind of stuff year after year. 1.00

00:15:41.920 And you're right, Richard.

00:15:43.100 I mean, most of the Christians or people who claim to be Christians or identify as a Christian either culturally or even if they're true believers, most of them are from the South.

00:15:52.180 And, of course, the South has a cultural rudder and a very interesting history that would make them – that would make the Southerners more fertile soil for our more muscular positions.

00:16:03.600 And surely, just as there are decent people in the rank and file of the GOP and the head table is completely fraudulent and corrupt, that's basically the same thing you have in Southern Baptist churches. 0.62

00:16:14.260 Most of the rank and file who would never go to a convention who have no idea what even gets voted on at these conventions.

00:16:20.440 Most of the Southern Baptists have no idea what happened this week.

00:16:24.300 They are fundamentally good people.

00:16:27.320 And they are fundamentally people – I should even qualify that as saying by good, I mean fundamentally with us on some of our platform.

00:16:37.300 Yeah.

00:16:37.780 Yeah.

00:16:38.040 Let me jump in here.

00:16:40.980 I've got a lot to say.

00:16:42.880 Well, as you've been following this, I'm sure, you know, Russell Moore almost lost his head recently, twice I think.

00:16:52.220 In fact, there was a big effort to get rid of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, which is his little policy group with the Southern Baptist Commission.

00:17:03.420 And there was – he's the most controversial individual in the Southern Baptist Commission by far.

00:17:12.680 And there's a lot of – there was a huge amount of resistance to him and wanted to get rid of him.

00:17:16.960 And there was a lot of resentment about how he had, you know, so – he was so opposed to Trump during the election.

00:17:25.240 He was one of the leading cucks out there.

00:17:27.880 He was, you know, leading the charge of cucks against Trump, and the evangelicals completely rejected Russell Moore and all his arguments and all these – the leaders of the – these cucked churches. 0.63

00:17:43.720 You know, the lay people completely rejected them and voted for Trump in overwhelming numbers.

00:17:48.460 And that's because they were – I mean they said all this stuff about race, but it was Trump's – his racial positions, which was resonating, especially in the Deep South.

00:17:59.420 That's where, you know, Trump's base was.

00:18:01.100 He won – he won every Southern state, I think.

00:18:04.520 Well, also, despite being a, you know, thrice married person, I don't think he – I actually don't think Donald Trump is the worst philanderer out there.

00:18:16.480 But there's also – he clearly has a history of cheating and of being outlandish and bombastic and having a hot bottle on his arm.

00:18:25.960 You know, so he is not – he does – you know, despite all of that and being vulgar and so on, despite all of that, evangelicals really came out in force.

00:18:35.520 I mean he could not – he would not be president without the evangelicals, no doubt.

00:18:40.520 And it was –

00:18:41.280 Right.

00:18:42.220 Yeah.

00:18:43.140 Go ahead.

00:18:43.960 That – that – so like especially in Alabama and Mississippi where he got I think one of the highest percentages in the primary.

00:18:51.020 I know he won every single county in Alabama during – and it was – and it was – you know, you've got to think.

00:18:57.880 Look what Trump had going against him.

00:19:00.020 He had his whole, you know, lifestyle, which is – goes completely against the grain of everything that Baptists believe, right? 0.97

00:19:09.500 You know, flamboyant, you know, has – owns casinos, gambling. 0.79

00:19:15.300 You know, married three times, a womanizer. 0.99

00:19:21.340 What resonated here was his rhetoric on race and immigration and issues like that.

00:19:27.960 And that's why he had these huge rallies here.

00:19:30.840 So that's just – that's just interesting.

00:19:33.340 And so there's this big conflict between Russell Moore.

00:19:36.180 Russell Moore and a lot of these leaders don't exactly represent their base.

00:19:40.200 It's – all these people wanted – all these people were diehard Rubio supporters, if I'm not mistaken.

00:19:47.960 There's, you know, certain factions of cucked evangelicals like, you know, Eric Erickson.

00:19:54.340 Yeah.

00:19:54.800 Is very representative.

00:19:57.100 And those people were, you know, all in for Rubio and Cruz.

00:20:01.260 Right.

00:20:01.880 And they lost, you know, tremendously.

00:20:03.940 But that gets, you know, right to the heart of the issue.

00:20:06.300 And this is the funny thing about the Southern Baptists. 0.81

00:20:11.360 When they're condemning racism and they're condemning slavery and they're condemning segregationists and white supremacists, they're condemning themselves.

00:20:21.380 I mean, who were the slave owners?

00:20:24.660 Who were the white supremacists?

00:20:27.080 Who were the segregationists?

00:20:28.180 It was them.

00:20:29.220 In fact, they were, like, significantly further to the right than the alt-right is today. 0.65

00:20:36.380 I mean, these were people like – who, you know, said that blacks were inferior because, you know, God had cursed him to be a servant.

00:20:46.780 And the servant of servants, right? 0.72

00:20:49.780 And there was even a time when, you know, Southern Baptists in the Antebellum era didn't even think that blacks were human.

00:20:58.760 They were a different species.

00:21:00.580 This was polygenesis.

00:21:01.780 This was popular back in the day.

00:21:03.080 And so their views on race were significantly harder than yours or mine or James'.

00:21:11.800 I mean, it's just, you know, amazing how they forget all this history.

00:21:16.760 I mean, why is there a Southern Baptist Convention?

00:21:19.840 And it's because –

00:21:21.080 Yeah, I was about to urge you to say that.

00:21:23.420 Like, why – I know the answer, but, like, why is there such a thing as Southern Baptists?

00:21:28.420 And it's because the Northern Baptists didn't want to have slave owners as missionaries and to enter in communion for slave owners. 0.72

00:21:38.280 So it wasn't just the Baptists that broke away.

00:21:40.520 It was also, for a time, the Methodists and, I believe, the Presbyterians.

00:21:45.040 And they all broke over slavery.

00:21:47.420 And they believed that slavery was a positive good, that slavery was just a great thing, and that Africans had been – were, you know, uplifted by their humane Christian masters.

00:21:57.580 And servitude was just a great institution that was going to sweep the world, and free labor was bad.

00:22:07.240 And, you know, in terms of their racial views, it was extremely more hardcore than anything – I mean, how hardcore do you have to be to, like, be a slave owner, you know, to actually physically own an African?

00:22:21.900 I think they're inferior.

00:22:24.200 But this is – these people were the Southern Baptists, and these are the people who are now, like, condemning white identity. 0.96

00:22:31.580 It's the most ridiculous thing in the world their ancestors would be – are rolling in their graves. 0.76

00:22:38.380 Pretty much they're condemning everything that they were about.

00:22:40.960 Actually, yeah, James, talk a little bit about this, because you – what was it like when you were a kid growing up in the church?

00:22:51.300 And maybe also kind of coming – I assume you had a lot of the feelings that you have now when you were younger, too.

00:23:00.620 You know, give us kind of a personal flavor of being a Southern Baptist, you know, growing up in the, I guess, mid to late 80s and 90s.

00:23:10.180 Yes, sir.

00:23:10.640 So you're a little bit younger than I am.

00:23:12.040 My experience growing up in the Southern Baptist Church was absolutely wonderful.

00:23:15.880 I think that you – certainly different people can arrive at the same destination politically taking drastically different routes.

00:23:23.820 I am, to this day, still a Christian.

00:23:29.360 And I know some people in the alt-right are not, but we have reached the same political positions.

00:23:34.200 And for me, I got there in part by my spiritual upbringing.

00:23:40.520 Growing up at the Southern Baptist Church in the 1980s – I was born in the 1980s, so in the 80s and early 90s – was a wonderful experience.

00:23:47.320 Now, granted, I didn't go into church and hear a speech from someone like Sam Dixon.

00:23:53.360 It wasn't a political speech, but I do believe it was rooted in the traditional Word of God.

00:23:57.420 What we didn't get was obviously these basic, you know, Marxist screeds that you get out of the church now.

00:24:06.640 But we had a small congregation.

00:24:09.560 It was a very conservative congregation in the best sense of the word.

00:24:13.460 It fostered a sense of community.

00:24:15.620 And I certainly marinated in that in my formative years.

00:24:20.500 And if anything, it reinforced the ultimate positions that I take today in a very public way.

00:24:27.200 But growing up, I went so far as to even teach vacation Bible school in the church for a few years.

00:24:32.400 So all of these things really helped shape me.

00:24:36.300 And my grandfather was a deacon in the church.

00:24:38.960 I met my wife at church.

00:24:40.000 So in addition to all of these other things, on a very personal level, the church changed my life.

00:24:45.500 And I don't regret that at all.

00:24:48.180 But you've certainly come a long way from the days in which you would sing Dixie at church to the days of Russell Moore.

00:24:58.260 So let's talk a little bit more about Russell Moore.

00:25:00.240 This is a guy who wrote in the Antichrist, the New York Times and Washington Post.

00:25:04.460 I say Antichrist because they're certainly not pro-Christian. 0.86

00:25:07.320 Trump voters may be going to hell. 0.99

00:25:09.080 He referred to Jesus as an illegal immigrant, advised people to attend homosexual weddings. 1.00

00:25:13.740 This is the— 1.00

00:25:15.080 He said Trump voters might be going to hell.

00:25:19.020 The Black Lives Matter chaos in Ferguson.

00:25:21.380 He questioned if they were actual Christians, if they were voting for Trump.

00:25:25.160 And he did that in the pages of the New York Times last year.

00:25:27.960 Very well known.

00:25:29.440 During the Black Lives Matter chaos in Ferguson, he took the side of Michael Brown instead of the police officer who shot him in self-defense.

00:25:36.320 Same for Eric Gardner.

00:25:37.420 He has diverted Southern Baptist money to help build a mosque in New Jersey.

00:25:42.800 He called me a white supremacist in the press last year, so that's a little bit personal.

00:25:47.360 But in addition to that—now, this is where it really gets absurd. 0.74

00:25:50.740 Say what you will about Martin Luther King, that he was a degenerate, that he was a plagiarist, that he was all of these things that he absolutely was, a communist. 0.76

00:26:00.660 But even if you can overlook all of that—and some great men were horrible people.

00:26:07.000 Obviously, Martin Luther King was not a great man. 0.98

00:26:09.220 He was a horrible person.

00:26:10.420 But there have been great historical figures that were flawed personally. 0.86

00:26:14.700 But even if you discount all of that about King, he publicly denounced the divinity of Jesus Christ.

00:26:20.060 So in order to be a Christian, and certainly on some levels, unless you just appreciate the cultural ramifications that Christianity has played in our people's evolution over the last 2,000 years,

00:26:31.440 you would have to say you have to believe in the virgin birth, you have to believe in the resurrection, in order to be a fundamentalist Bible-believing Christian, which the Southern Baptists claim to be.

00:26:38.920 So why then are they honoring a man in Memphis, Tennessee next year on the 50th anniversary of his assassination and holding him up as the exemplar of what Southern Baptists should be?

00:26:49.520 And that's what they're planning next year.

00:26:50.940 So according to them, the great Christians of the past in the South—Robert E. Lee, R. L. Dabney, Stonewall Jackson—they're all in hell, whereas Martin Luther King sits at the right hand of Jesus Christ.

00:27:04.340 So this is what you're getting out of the church now.

00:27:06.480 No, we didn't get any of that back then.

00:27:08.360 We didn't get any of that, but I'll tell you, there was a theologian by the name of A. W. Tozer who had a great line, and this certainly applies to today's Southern Baptist Convention, but really all Protestant denominations in the West.

00:27:25.100 Religion today is not transforming people, he wrote.

00:27:28.000 Rather, it is being transformed by the people.

00:27:30.580 It is not raising the moral level of society.

00:27:33.800 It is descending to society's own level and congratulating itself that it has scored a victory because society is smilingly accepting its surrender.

00:27:43.080 If that didn't really sum up the church of the current year, I don't know what does.

00:27:50.260 But, no, the Southern Baptist tradition, even, of course, prior to my experience in the church, was certainly very good.

00:27:57.020 Even as late as—you know, we all know why the religion or the denomination came to be, why they said the 1840s from the mainline Baptist.

00:28:04.740 But even as late as, of course, the 1960s, you had the prominent theologians of the Southern Baptist Convention using Scripture to back up their positions on segregation.

00:28:13.260 Now, that was within the lifetime of many Southern Baptists who were still alive.

00:28:17.760 And so I would say it does make—Christianity and the church does make for a very convenient whipping boy for many of us in the alt-right.

00:28:29.420 I come from this from a unique perspective, being an alt-right person who was raised a Christian and Southern Baptist.

00:28:37.120 But I think the problem is certainly in our society, because what is the church, if not a collection of individuals from the local communities that the church is located?

00:28:49.180 And so if our people are infected with this pathological altruism, this disease that seems to only afflict white people, 0.67

00:28:56.360 well, certainly when they cross the threshold of a church house, they don't become immune to it.

00:29:00.760 It doesn't go away.

00:29:01.660 And so just as all of our institutions have been perverted and subverted, so too has the church.

00:29:06.540 And if our men become strong again, if whites become strong again, then the church will fall in line as well. 0.92

00:29:11.320 And I hope that that happens.

00:29:12.960 Yeah, I mean, look, for someone like me who is critical of Christianity itself and its origins,

00:29:22.220 I could talk a long time about problems as I see it in the nature of the religion itself.

00:29:31.480 But I would say that you're absolutely correct in the sense that the Southern Baptist Convention is just one more institution that has gone the way of PC madness and current year ideology.

00:29:47.000 So, I mean, I remember certainly, you know, getting into all this stuff 15 years ago when I was first, you know, becoming an adult and reading and subscribing to magazines and things like that.

00:30:00.960 And most conservatives, paleocons and so on would always point to the church as, well, you know, society is infected, but at least we have these, you know, bastions of light out there.

00:30:12.300 But the fact is, the way I see it in 2017 is that all of these institutions, and maybe there are a couple of exceptions here and there,

00:30:21.520 but all of the institutions are taking parallel paths down this road towards the current year.

00:30:29.580 And they just have a different way of doing it.

00:30:32.580 So, I mean, I, as I was, I was joking with, with Hunter before we turned on the recorder, like, he said, oh, were you raised a Southern Baptist?

00:30:40.960 And I could detect a little bit of sarcasm in that question.

00:30:45.340 No, I was raised an Episcopalian.

00:30:48.580 But I'm a confirmed Episcopalian, actually.

00:30:50.760 But, yes, effectively, the church that is my mother's church has just, has reached the same conclusions.

00:30:57.300 It's just gone about it differently. 0.91

00:30:59.300 The Episcopalian church has female lesbian pastors sending people on African missions and all sorts of nonsense. 1.00

00:31:06.840 We just do it in a more kind of snobby, Whole Foods-type way. 0.96

00:31:13.460 That is our way of reaching the same thing.

00:31:15.340 And really all institutions are doing this.

00:31:17.560 There are very, very few exceptions.

00:31:19.940 All universities, whether it's a big state college with a big football team or so on, or whether it's Yale or a small liberal arts college out in Pennsylvania, they are all, they have the exact same, effectively, freshman orientation session.

00:31:34.700 They have the exact same ideology animating the, you know, arts and sciences and much of the physical sciences, actually.

00:31:41.820 So all of these institutions, the government itself is like this.

00:31:45.200 It is very, very difficult to find an institution that actually is not cucked or paused or whatever word you want to use.

00:31:52.820 I would say maybe the only institution that isn't fully cucked is the Internet.

00:31:57.180 I mean, you know, but in terms of all, you know, wider society, all of the institutions that were basically the institutions of the ruling class, something like the New York Times, the Washington Post, Harvard University, the Episcopalian Church, your local Rotary Club, the U.S. military, I could go on.

00:32:21.060 All of these basic WASP institutions of the ruling class have all reached the same destination. 0.94

00:32:27.980 They just have different flourishes and different aesthetics about it.

00:32:32.080 And so, no, I don't, I absolutely do not blame the Southern Baptists.

00:32:36.260 But the only thing I will say is I totally agree that there are a lot of very, you know, very decent, good people involved in, you know, in these religious orders.

00:32:48.600 But as institutions, they have not been able to put up any resistance.

00:32:54.180 The fact that they just ultimately folded, it just expresses it all.

00:32:59.440 None of these institutions at this point will fundamentally stick up for us.

00:33:06.220 And so at the risk of sounding like a Leninist, I just simply think we are going to probably have to go through this process.

00:33:15.620 We are going to have to see it to the end.

00:33:18.780 We are going to have to have another resolution that is even more ridiculous than this last one in 2020.

00:33:25.620 And it's just going to have to get, we're going to have to pass through this era of ideological transformation. 0.69

00:33:34.860 And it probably will have to get worse because the idea that we can point to something out there that is like, well, at least that's not cucked.

00:33:42.780 At least the churches aren't cucked.

00:33:44.360 No, they are.

00:33:45.960 They are.

00:33:46.520 They are arguably more cucked.

00:33:49.120 You know, like some of the stuff Russell Moore has said and like the absolute like moralization and valuing of interracial marriage and things like that.

00:34:01.620 Some of the things that they, the religious people have said are actually worse than stuff you would hear at Harvard because there is a kind of religious quality to it. 0.66

00:34:12.360 Go ahead.

00:34:12.780 I think, I think, again, we have to differentiate between the leadership of any institution, including the church and the laity or the members of any other institution.

00:34:25.580 But certainly the leadership of the church, you couldn't get any more cucked than what you're seeing out of Russell Moore.

00:34:31.040 But I think Russell Moore, unlike most of the people in the Southern Baptist Church, who are, again, just like most people anywhere else in society, they will take the passively resistance.

00:34:43.620 There are very few people in the world who actually have any semblance of leadership quality.

00:34:48.440 There are very few people that have any core beliefs.

00:34:50.700 You're talking, you're listening to three of them right now, of course.

00:34:53.720 But for the most part, that's the issue.

00:34:57.000 I think Russell Moore very much is a paid change agent in the church.

00:35:01.780 But it is interesting, and I would ask, why was it the Southern Baptist Church?

00:35:06.000 You haven't seen all of the other denominations passing resolutions condemning the alt-right.

00:35:11.100 Only the Southern Baptists have done that.

00:35:13.160 And I think, of course, the reason is twofold.

00:35:15.460 Number one, the history of the Southern Baptist Church being so demonstrably of segregation into existence over the issue of slavery.

00:35:24.760 Their history plays into it.

00:35:26.820 But I think the leadership knows that on a fundamental level there are a lot of people in these pews that, to go back to something I said earlier, are in agreement with some of our issues.

00:35:38.800 I think there's certainly some natural overlap there.

00:35:41.140 But the church is dying because they alienate men who are the natural leaders of families, whether it be spiritual or otherwise.

00:35:50.440 The church today, as is written at Faith and Heritage, a website that I like, with its cucking on race and feminism and immigration, demands that the grace of Christ comes attached at the hip with this suicide cult manifested by feminized leaders like Russell Moore. 0.83

00:36:08.940 So any reasonable person is going to reject this ridiculous practice of religion out of hand, which means, of course, the very best people would be alienated from Christianity. 0.88

00:36:17.980 So I understand fully why nonbelievers in the alt-right, who didn't have my experiences with Christianity growing up, cannot but look at the church and gag.

00:36:26.560 And to them, I would say, just as the political establishment must be destroyed by an outsider that we thought could have been Trump, probably not now, but so too must the Christian religious establishment be destroyed by a charismatic and forceful advocate of the traditional faith of our fathers. 0.80

00:36:43.240 He's going to have to drive these cucks out of the pulpits.

00:36:45.880 And, Richard, you say this, you've said this quite right.

00:36:48.180 First, the culture changes, then politics changes.

00:36:51.140 Well, there's another cliche that goes, you tell me what the world is saying today, and I'll tell you what the church will be saying in seven years.

00:36:58.100 Right.

00:36:58.280 And so I think if we recapture the culture, for anybody who is interested in restoring the church, that it can be restored.

00:37:06.920 But as it stands now, it's as bad, if not worse, as you mentioned, than anyone else.

00:37:13.220 But even, you know, and again, some people listening to this may be Christian.

00:37:17.440 The majority might not be.

00:37:19.280 But even William Pierce said two people, a Marxist and a Christian, can take the same scripture and interpret it in a way to defend their position.

00:37:28.120 So I'm not going to do that.

00:37:29.680 But there is something beautiful about it, I think, that is worth preserving, and we need to retake everything.

00:37:39.500 But as far as it exists now, it needs to be destroyed before it can be rebuilt.

00:37:43.000 You lose a fortress, you fire on your own fortress, you recapture it, and then you restore it.

00:37:47.640 But it's a mess, and believe me, again, I say this as someone who grew up and had wonderful experiences in that church, but it's embarrassing.

00:37:57.940 Hunter, what about you?

00:37:59.020 Yeah.

00:37:59.680 Have you struggled with your faith, Hunter?

00:38:02.440 I don't mean to get too personal, but...

00:38:04.140 Oh, yeah.

00:38:05.160 Well, you know, I grew up in the Methodist church.

00:38:08.320 The Church of Hillary Clinton.

00:38:10.300 Yeah, the Church of Hillary Clinton.

00:38:11.780 In the Deep South, it's, you know, the Methodists and the Baptists are predominant here.

00:38:16.580 And then, you know, as I got older, you know, I started to realize that they believed all these cucked things about race, all these, you know, terrible things about social issues.

00:38:28.140 And that just, you know, alienated me from it.

00:38:30.500 It's just like, you know, I don't want anything to do with this.

00:38:33.160 And it took me for the longest time, you know, to do, you know, in my mind for a long time, Christianity, I associated Christianity with types like Russell Moore.

00:38:43.660 But then again, you know, like I said, my sense of history, you know, allowed me to, like, you know, see this in perspective.

00:38:51.160 And this is what I was going to go into.

00:38:53.500 Well, look at the SCV, right?

00:38:56.580 If someone looked at the SCV, speaking of cucked institutions, the Sons of Confederate Veterans, you would think that the war between the states was between legions of black confederates who were fighting on behalf of the multiracial, anti-racist South.

00:39:13.540 States rights. 0.97

00:39:14.160 Yeah, for states rights and to oppose high tariffs against Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln, who was a racist monster. 0.91

00:39:24.100 So millions of black confederates fought to liberate the South, you know, multiculturalism and anti-racism. 0.93

00:39:31.860 Okay, so that's just one example of a completely cucked institution.

00:39:36.720 But you read history and you're like, okay, wait a minute.

00:39:40.100 And then you, like something else, Russell Moore wrote one of his big essays.

00:39:43.980 One of the first things that drew my attention to this guy was he wrote an article called The Cross and the Confederate Flag, like, absolutely can't coexist, right?

00:39:53.300 And I'm like, wait a minute.

00:39:55.440 They coexisted, like, they coexisted just fine.

00:39:59.440 It was, it was absolutely the whole, like, all the churches split over slavery and over race.

00:40:05.300 And then, like, after the war, the whole lost cause ideology was, you know, it was Southern theologians, you know, who said, you know, the Confederates had been baptized in blood and were God's chosen people.

00:40:19.100 And, you know, race was right there in the middle of it.

00:40:22.880 So they've completely tossed aside their own history.

00:40:27.960 And they seem to believe that we are right now, I mean, we are correct right now, not to be too ambiguous there, in the sense that all these other Christians, basically the whole history of Christianity was effectively wrong. 0.90

00:40:48.320 Because clearly, identitarianism or nationalism or whatever you want to call it, racialism, certainly in the United States, clearly coexisted with Christianity.

00:40:59.680 And so it is a very bold claim to make.

00:41:03.340 I mean, Russell Moore is basically saying, I am correct on this.

00:41:07.740 And all of the, my forefathers were wrong.

00:41:13.160 Yes.

00:41:13.420 I mean, he, and I don't know if he's ever, I'll sometimes talk to Christians.

00:41:17.620 They don't, they're not willing to say this.

00:41:20.140 I've talked to, you know, these really cucked Catholics, like John Smurak, and they seem to believe that, like, the Catholic Church was always about multiracialism and denying race and all this kind of stuff. 0.96

00:41:31.420 And it's just, I mean, that's just totally delusional. 0.98

00:41:34.500 I mean, you, I would almost rather they, as opposed to, like, calling upon, you know, this theological wisdom that they've just pulled out of their ass, that they just openly admit what they are doing, which is that we are, we are right. 0.86

00:41:50.240 And everyone who preceded us is wrong, because that is the only thing you can say.

00:41:54.340 Even churches now, I mean, particularly in Eastern Europe, another irony of history, there are many ironies of history, is that many of the people, many of the nations that suffered under communism did not suffer under something worse, and that is cultural Marxism.

00:42:10.580 And so they actually have very strong, intense senses of nation.

00:42:16.940 If you told a Polish Catholic that the true meaning of his religion was about globalism and multiculturalism, they would look at you like you're speaking to them in Arabic.

00:42:29.800 I mean, it's, no, actually, our Catholicism is about us.

00:42:34.340 And, you know, I don't know what to say, it's just, it is amazing, but I, at the same time, I would put this forward, is that Christianity does have, any kind of monotheism, at least does have something, it does have an inherent universality that is something it can call upon to make this point.

00:42:59.100 And that it is interesting, and that, you know, I agree with you, I absolutely agree that most of the whites in the Southern Baptists, who are Southern Baptists, are decent, that even if they're flawed, like we all are, they want to be family men, leaders of families, hardworking people, I absolutely agree with that.

00:43:20.380 But the fact that they don't have an ability to oppose Russell Moore, and they clearly didn't, like when Russell Moore browbeat them or twisted arms or shamed them, wagged a finger, they ultimately went in line.

00:43:33.440 They didn't have anything to call upon to say, no, actually, the Confederate flag is something we should be proud of as Southerners and as Southern Baptists in particular.

00:43:44.480 No, I don't even know what the alt-right is, is what they probably should have said, but, like, who is, who are these people? We have no earthly idea.

00:43:54.440 However, we, yeah, nationalism and ethno-nationalism, that, how are we really going to denounce this?

00:44:03.660 I mean, you know, this is just insane. They don't have the, they don't have the words to, or the ability to oppose their leaders, and I think that is a very tragic thing.

00:44:14.960 One thing I was going to pick up here, it's amazing, you know, like you said, that they don't have the ability to reply to Russell Moore.

00:44:23.180 Now, if they actually wanted to make all the correct biblical arguments for racial, for white identity, for racial differences, for slavery, for white supremacy, for segregation, that's what Southern Baptists, you know, had.

00:44:37.560 They made all those arguments against everything they believe today for well over a century, right? Over a century.

00:44:46.880 And you look at the timeline here, and we were talking about how institutions, you know, go on parallel paths, and that's the interesting thing about the Southern Baptist Convention,

00:44:55.780 in that, of all the institutions in our society, it was the last one to, I would say, it was the slowest one,

00:45:06.300 in that the Southern Baptists discovered that racism and slavery was this horrible thing in 1995.

00:45:14.360 Yeah, they announced, they announced in 1995 that, you know, racism is a sin after all.

00:45:20.200 Well, like, 30-something years after the Civil Rights Movement, hundreds, over 100 years after slavery, they make these arguments.

00:45:31.980 And we have to ask, why is this going on?

00:45:34.820 Why isn't it not just, why is it the Southern Baptists?

00:45:37.140 Why is it Presbyterians or, you know, even atheists or agnostics or Catholics?

00:45:43.380 You know, at the end of the day, they all believe the same thing.

00:45:46.720 And whether it's, you know, the universities or the churches, they're all screaming, bleeding, the same message about race.

00:45:54.360 And that really gets to the heart of it and what changed.

00:45:57.760 And that's in the 20th century.

00:45:59.200 You know, before the 20th century, you didn't have really mass media.

00:46:04.380 Culture was organic.

00:46:06.380 Culture was centered in, most people didn't go to universities.

00:46:10.520 In the South, public schooling was kind of a joke.

00:46:16.860 Educated people had private tutors.

00:46:19.520 We didn't have mass circulation, newspapers, radio, Hollywood, television.

00:46:26.780 So what happened in the 20th century is that you got this kind of culture that was coming and being beamed down from above.

00:46:34.620 Like, you know, whether it's radio, television, everything.

00:46:38.840 And even then, even in the end, look at the 60s, right?

00:46:43.460 Southerners overwhelmingly voted against the Civil Rights Act of 64.

00:46:48.760 They filibustered it, I want to say.

00:46:51.540 There was massive resistance in the South.

00:46:54.080 So the timeline here is that there's this rotten culture that comes down from the very top.

00:47:01.360 And the culture, like the churches, you know, are kind of like a subculture.

00:47:06.740 And they're conforming to that, to the dominant mainstream culture that's on top of it.

00:47:13.240 Like, you know, all the television.

00:47:15.820 And like we were saying, the cause of all this, the ultimate cause of all this is that, you know, the natural organic culture of, say, the South or the natural organic culture of Ireland or Germany or France.

00:47:28.140 It's all, like, been subordinated to this globalist, well, this global mass culture that comes down through television, through radio, through newspapers and stuff like that, through elite universities.

00:47:42.420 And that's what they're conforming to, is my sense, is that they want to be mainstream, they want to be respectable, so they give ground to the dominant culture.

00:47:52.920 And that's what they become, more like over time.

00:47:54.640 That's what all institutions become, more like over time.

00:47:57.560 They become, like, the dominant group in society.

00:48:01.420 Yeah, and this has actually been challenged by the Internet and social media.

00:48:06.880 And I think there are a lot of bad things about the Internet and social media.

00:48:11.460 I read less books now, fewer books now, because I'm on Twitter too much or I'm reading stuff on the web and so on.

00:48:19.940 It's just kind of a bad thing.

00:48:21.920 At the same time, this is the dynamic that I totally agree with what Hunter is saying.

00:48:29.180 Like, there is a kind of monopoly, there's a definite monopoly on culture by the big three television stations, by Hollywood, and so on.

00:48:39.260 And this is actually being challenged for the first time through the Internet, where society is fragmenting, and that these new views are actually coming in.

00:48:52.800 And they're being challenged.

00:48:54.300 I mean, the alt-right's collective budget isn't even approaching, like, the budget for the SBC conference, I mean, you know, or convention, not to mention the budget of, the combined budget of all these individual churches.

00:49:10.520 Yet they feel the need to denounce us as some terrible threat.

00:49:14.540 I mean, you don't, I don't know.

00:49:16.200 I mean, one doesn't just throw Satanism around.

00:49:19.680 You know, that's reserved for really serious threats.

00:49:25.680 And they, and obviously Moore and the Baptist leadership views us as a threat, because we are challenging their narrative.

00:49:35.120 So it's an interesting historical dynamic, and we're caught in between it.

00:49:38.580 Go ahead, James.

00:49:39.080 Well, it's a little ironic, I think, that the guy who, in some capacity, and this is not conspiratorial, Russell Moore sits on the board of an organization whose sole purpose is to push amnesty to their flocks.

00:50:01.980 And in part, that organization is funded by George Soros.

00:50:05.240 So a man who, at one degree of separation, accepts money from a very nice atheist Jewish individual, is claiming that the members of his own congregation are Satanists if they disagree with him.

00:50:18.740 But, again, a lot of this is societal gentlemen, and they do want to be accepted.

00:50:25.820 But as it was said, I guess halfway in jest, just as every German girl in the 1930s wanted to be with an SS officer, when the culture changes, the church will change once again.

00:50:37.880 So as bad as it is, I guess that can give us some hope.

00:50:42.620 But these people are also very spiritually illiterate.

00:50:44.880 And if you want to hear about something else that's ironic, we've all seen the Mark Dice videos, the Man on the Street interviews, where people can't answer first or second grade questions about civics or history.

00:50:56.660 They can't name the belligerents in World War II or any of these things.

00:51:00.460 Well, certainly that, too, can be found in the church.

00:51:03.540 And so, of course, as they passed this resolution damning the alt-right as Satanic, as anti-Semitic, as white supremacist, and on and on, they also passed a resolution, quite rightly, celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, which began by many accounts in, well, what year is this?

00:51:26.300 It's 1517, I believe.

00:51:28.080 And so, of course, in celebration of that, they had many books on Martin Luther at this convention.

00:51:35.580 I saw one bookseller with a nice Martin Luther collection.

00:51:39.100 Well, have they ever even read anything that Martin Luther said about Jews?

00:51:44.000 And so all of this stuff will work itself out.

00:51:48.380 And what we see today is not sustainable.

00:51:51.100 It's sustainable.

00:51:51.760 We all know that.

00:51:52.960 And when it flips again, everything else will flip, including the religious institutions.

00:51:57.080 So we can take hope in that.

00:51:59.820 But we do know, as I said earlier, and I'm not sure if I said it on this call because I've had some trouble with the connection.

00:52:04.980 I know I said it earlier before the call, the alt-right is the only organized force fighting degeneracy in the West.

00:52:14.640 So for any conservative Christians out there, if they want to join a battle that their ministers don't have the stomach for, they need to join ranks right here.

00:52:24.640 Absolutely.

00:52:25.640 Absolutely.

00:52:26.380 And we welcome them, I would say this.

00:52:28.100 Speaking as a Nietzschean, I welcome Southern Baptists. 0.97

00:52:30.940 I mean that absolutely sincerely, even though I did say that with a twinkle in my eye.

00:52:39.860 I mean that absolutely sincerely.

00:52:43.400 The Southern Baptists, one of the interesting things, you've got to think, well, you know, they completely accommodated the South's racial culture, the South's, you know, belief in white identity, the South's slavery culture.

00:52:57.700 Completely accommodated.

00:52:58.680 And you've got to think, what if, you know, what if the Third Reich had won the Second World War and had conquered America? 0.87

00:53:07.160 You know, they would probably be conforming to whatever, you know, national socialist America would be preaching today because, you know, they want to be –

00:53:17.160 the key thing about these people is they want to be accepted, they want to be respectable, and they'll accommodate, you know, whoever bestows respectability, whether it was the slave owners in the antebellum South or the media moguls who control the television channels today and who are the big donors.

00:53:38.500 And it'll be something else – it'll be something else, you know, 20, 30 years from now, I think.

00:53:44.640 I absolutely agree, and I would say this.

00:53:48.860 A lot of Americans really love this notion of the separation of church and state, which can be traced back to a letter written by Jefferson.

00:53:58.800 But – and it does have, obviously, some historical basis.

00:54:03.820 I think there were many people in the founding of America feared the notion of a national church because America was multi-confessional.

00:54:12.420 And, you know, a Baptist or a Catholic didn't want an Anglican, you know, forcing his religion down their throat.

00:54:21.120 But I do think this notion of the separation of church and state is actually wildly naive and wildly ahistorical.

00:54:33.120 States, and that is governing bodies and communities, they congeal through religion.

00:54:42.420 And it's actually the religion that grants legitimacy to the state and vice versa, actually.

00:54:50.240 And a religion does – it is a – religion is almost inherently tribal. 0.59

00:54:54.120 Even in a universalistic faith like Christianity or Islam or something like that, there is this tribal element to religion.

00:55:05.580 And the tribe enforces – or reinforces the religion, and the religion reinforces the tribe. 0.63

00:55:11.220 And we really can't ever get away with that – get away from that.

00:55:16.580 And we have to understand the degree to which – yes, what you were saying, Hunter, is true.

00:55:23.040 Like, if there is a change of regime, we will, within about 10 years – because Southerners, you know, they're a little slow.

00:55:29.180 It might take them 10, 15.

00:55:30.760 They'll be quoting scripture, justifying the new regime.

00:55:35.840 And we can look at that cynically, but we can also look at that as a sign of hope.

00:55:40.980 And we can also look at that from a standpoint that I am not – whatever I'm – however I might feel about religion itself or my faith or lack thereof, I don't believe there can ever be a society without a religious sensibility and without a religious institution.

00:55:59.620 I don't think those things can exist.

00:56:01.620 And there is going to have to be, for any kind of new society that we want to found, there is going to have to be a binding force that is supernatural, natural, that isn't the police, that isn't the constitution, that is something that is theological and that is in our hearts and in our minds and in the air, you could say.

00:56:26.960 Well, and this may have been their overzealous attempt to stave off something that they feel is happening in the church.

00:56:35.720 I think there is a lot of pressure building up in the church.

00:56:40.080 We saw it with Trump.

00:56:41.460 I mean, on the political scene, all was calm and serene until Trump happened.

00:56:45.200 Now, certainly he's underperformed based upon our expectations, but what he did – that campaign was really one of the most enjoyable years of my life watching the people.

00:56:53.240 And I believe that some of these churches may be feeling that as well, and it can happen in the church.

00:56:59.620 Certainly, I can tell you from being on the inside of this thing, not with the Southern Baptist Convention currently, but having grown up in the church and having still – and I still take my kids to church.

00:57:11.160 I can tell you that the average person in the church in the South does not want to go and hear Marxist bilge coming from the pulpit as they are inundated incessantly with all other forms of media,

00:57:29.200 except for the ones, of course, that we control, bombarding them with this worldview.

00:57:35.540 They don't want to go to church on Sunday morning, hear a sermon that reflects the Obama MSNBC worldview.

00:57:44.780 I think that something could break in the church.

00:57:46.840 And if you look back, not just on the South, obviously – and this has been talked about, this is not a new idea, and this is something that hasn't been said a hundred times before.

00:57:54.680 But if you look back, our people do owe a lot to the Christians in terms of, to varying degrees, certainly the great white kings of Europe, Charlemagne, Sobieski, Martel.

00:58:06.900 It was the banner of the cross that united a lot of those tribes.

00:58:11.440 So I don't know if that's the role Christianity can play going forward, but I think it's certainly nearsighted or short-sighted to blame Christianity for the plight of the world as it stands today.

00:58:21.000 And so I do agree with you, Richard, that we will need something going forward that fills that void on a spiritual plane that things in the physical realm can't.

00:58:32.060 Yeah. Well, amen.

00:58:34.160 Do either of you – do either of you read – happen to read Rod Dreher?

00:58:40.580 You know who that is?

00:58:41.460 Oh, he's my favorite.

00:58:42.800 Yeah, he's my favorite commentator.

00:58:44.800 But the only thing I would say about Rod Dreher, he is a bit too extreme, and I feel that I will have to distance myself from some of his white supremacist and eliminationist viewpoints.

00:59:02.220 However, as a lover of free speech, I am willing to tolerate the radical anti-Semite and neo-Nazi Rod Dreher.

00:59:12.960 Okay, so commenting on Rod Dreher, I do read Rod, and I think from reading Rod's blog –

00:59:21.880 I couldn't do it.

00:59:23.620 If I read him every day, I would just be in a bad mood. 1.00

00:59:27.500 I would just be like, oh, this guy is so stupid. 1.00

00:59:29.640 I keep tabs on Rod to see what Christian conservatives and these types are thinking. 1.00

00:59:38.740 And you've got to think maybe the reason they're condemning the alt-right is the same reason the Southern Baptists were condemning integration relentlessly back in the 50s, 60s.

00:59:48.640 You know, they were denouncing integration with resolutions because the alt-right is gaining ground, and they see the alt-right as a thread.

00:59:56.040 And I've seen many blog posts by Rod Dreher when he talks about how all these Christian principals and Christian schoolteachers and all these people who do Christian homeschooling are complaining that their kids are on their smartphones talking about the alt-right and Pepe and all this stuff.

01:00:18.980 And it's kind of like, you know, denouncing pornography.

01:00:24.040 I mean, they're losing.

01:00:25.340 And that's because, you know, our discourse is so available.

01:00:28.700 It's so out there.

01:00:30.480 Even though we have such a small budget, you know, our voice is everywhere on the Internet, on Twitter, on YouTube, some places, if you count Paul Jusuf.

01:00:43.920 But, yeah, I mean, we're getting our ideas out there, and they feel threatened by us.

01:00:47.480 And that's probably one of the reasons you had this big denunciation.

01:00:51.160 What do you think of that?

01:00:51.940 No doubt.

01:00:52.660 Well, and then, Richard, you even mentioned with what the alt-right's been able to do on this budget that wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket.

01:01:00.980 I mean, there are single churches in the Southern Baptist Convention, single churches that bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in time every week.

01:01:09.260 And they are completely weak, effeminate, emasculated, and the future is not there.

01:01:15.180 I'm not saying as a Christian that the future can't be, that that faith can't be part of our future as a people.

01:01:21.320 But the future is not in the Christianity that you're getting at the denominational head table right now.

01:01:27.740 Oh, I think it's absolutely true, and I'll just add to the Rod Dreher discussion.

01:01:33.160 Rod Dreher is kind of like an expression of the older, worrying, hand-wringing Christian who doesn't want to see this going. 0.64

01:01:43.680 Rod Dreher has expressed a kind of, well, not a kind of, he's expressed a cultural pessimism.

01:01:49.660 I mean, he has thrown out this idea, the Benedict Option, a romantic retreat from the world.

01:01:55.780 We need to go, we need to basically retreat from the culture war and set up camp somewhere and then maybe come back after it's burned itself out or something. 0.59

01:02:04.740 That is the Benedict Option to the degree that I understand it.

01:02:09.000 But it is interesting that people like Dreher will say things, he'll even say things that I might agree with on a lot of issues, things affecting our society.

01:02:21.000 You mentioned pornography.

01:02:22.280 Like, has the wide availability of pornography made us better people?

01:02:26.560 You know, to ask that question is to answer it.

01:02:28.560 Obviously, no.

01:02:30.040 And, you know, family breakdown, loss of trust in society, et cetera.

01:02:36.180 I agree with all that.

01:02:37.620 But all of these things do seem to be fundamentally symptoms of a greater loss.

01:02:45.260 And that is that loss of our sense of ourselves as a people.

01:02:49.640 And also, all of these things have a racial element to them somewhere.

01:02:56.300 Whether you like it or not, that is what they are about at some basic level.

01:03:02.280 This is the level on which whites or Americans are being attacked.

01:03:09.760 It's on the racial level most prominently. 0.57

01:03:13.620 And to just think that we shouldn't fight that battle or, oh, let's not fight that battle because as Christians we don't see race.

01:03:21.140 But let's try to fight all these other battles.

01:03:23.200 It just seems hopelessly naive.

01:03:26.000 And even if Dreher might be, and I'm speaking seriously.

01:03:29.040 I was joking about Dreher being a neo-Nazi.

01:03:31.540 Of course, that was sarcasm.

01:03:33.040 But I'm speaking quite seriously now.

01:03:36.340 You know, even if we agree with Dreher on some important points, if you're not going to enter the field of battle where the battle is taking place, you might as well go play tiddlywinks.

01:03:48.200 You know, it's like the left, the enemies of everything Rod Dreher likes, they have amassed an army on the race battlefield.

01:03:58.560 And yet Rod Dreher is like, no, to the sea.

01:04:01.500 Or, you know, no, let's, you know, let's go over to this other country where we might be able to win this tiny little skirmish.

01:04:09.560 No, at some point you have to face down your enemies.

01:04:13.040 And if you don't, you're cut.

01:04:15.600 I don't care what your opinions are on abortion or pornography or the decline of the family or civil discourse or profanity or whatever the hell you want to talk about.

01:04:27.800 If you're not fighting the battle that matters, you might as well go take up tiddlywinks. 0.94

01:04:32.580 Because that is just as useless as what you're doing right now.

01:04:38.680 And Rod Dreher is funny. 0.72

01:04:39.980 I mean, he is a funny guy in terms of locating, like, where cuffed Christians are at the moment. 0.67

01:04:46.600 Yeah.

01:04:46.880 But that's all he's useful for.

01:04:48.820 Like, he's utterly useless for anything else besides that.

01:04:52.920 He is not going to fight.

01:04:54.960 And if someone's not going to fight, you kick them out of the army.

01:05:00.800 He's a barometer, I would say.

01:05:03.360 That's why I read him.

01:05:04.200 He's kind of a barometer or temperature gauge of where these people are at.

01:05:09.120 And I read National Review every day.

01:05:11.780 And another one who's like that is David French.

01:05:15.540 And his response to everything, just like Rod's response to everything, is a stern moral lecture.

01:05:24.900 That's so awful that you're writing, you know, in our schools and you're kicking our professors out.

01:05:30.800 How dare you?

01:05:31.680 How dare you?

01:05:32.340 And it's always the response to everything is a stern moral lecture and a complaint about double standards and the usual hand-wringing and never doing anything but denouncing us because, you know, we're the only ones who are going to get out there and do anything about it.

01:05:48.280 Right.

01:05:48.800 They'll call us, you know, when we go out there to oppose the antiphots who are beating people up in the streets, they're like, oh, well, there's just two sides of the same coin is what they'll say.

01:05:59.600 And they're weirdly right because we're – both of us, both of these sides are actually fighting.

01:06:05.200 You know what I mean?

01:06:06.240 Fighting, yeah.

01:06:06.700 Yeah, it's like that's basically what they're saying.

01:06:08.720 Well, you're just social justice warriors.

01:06:11.600 I've heard this so many times. 1.00

01:06:12.600 It's such a stupid argument. 1.00

01:06:14.460 But at some level, it's like, well, okay, let me actually accept that. 1.00

01:06:19.460 Like, yes, like the social justice warriors and like Antifa, we actually want to change society.

01:06:26.120 We're not just going to wring hands and complain and wag fingers.

01:06:30.860 That's ultimately meaningless.

01:06:32.780 Of course.

01:06:33.280 And so it's like, yeah.

01:06:36.020 Go ahead.

01:06:36.700 Of course the battle is – of course the battle is racial, and I'll give you two examples. 0.76

01:06:41.040 One is how the phrase white male has become a derogatory term.

01:06:46.660 Like, you know, you used to call somebody a racist.

01:06:48.280 Now you call them a white male or a white conservative.

01:06:51.840 You attack them – you specifically attack them on the grounds of their race and demographic.

01:06:57.660 It doesn't get any more clear cut than that.

01:07:01.000 And the second is, you know, with the Southern Baptist Convention, you know, they condemned in their little resolution.

01:07:05.920 They said that white – they said that white identity was satanic, right? 0.70

01:07:11.500 Now, they didn't condemn – they didn't say that black identity was satanic. 0.94

01:07:16.020 All these black Baptists who have their black congregations or these black Methodists who have their race-based congregations, they didn't say that they were satanic. 0.95

01:07:24.860 It's just whites. 0.95

01:07:25.680 So, of course, it's true.

01:07:28.300 And even they understand that.

01:07:30.160 And even Rod understands that.

01:07:33.060 He'll just, you know, hand-wring about it.

01:07:34.500 Yeah.

01:07:35.700 Yeah.

01:07:37.560 Well, gentlemen, let us put a bookmark in this conversation.

01:07:44.460 There's obviously a lot more to say, but I think we have spoken our piece about this matter.

01:07:50.420 But thank you, Hunter.

01:07:52.540 Thank you, James.

01:07:53.600 Do you guys want to plug away before we go?

01:07:57.160 Yeah, I would say this very quickly, Richard.

01:08:00.480 I am channeling you the week that Hillary Clinton condemned the alt-right.

01:08:05.260 I believe you were in Japan that week.

01:08:07.340 I happen to be out of town myself.

01:08:09.040 This is why my connection has been so poor.

01:08:11.440 And I think I even dropped off the call a few minutes ago for a moment.

01:08:15.200 And so to your audience, I would apologize for my lack of accessibility here.

01:08:20.040 But I would leave you with two thoughts.

01:08:21.760 Number one, what you're seeing here is nothing more than the modern-day witch hunt to identify and punish and persecute so-called racists.

01:08:30.320 But unlike those days when the people perpetrating it had some semblance of power, the future will not be written by people like Russell Moore,

01:08:40.040 who publicly admitted to crying uncontrollably when the Southern Baptist Convention denounced the Confederate flag.

01:08:48.980 History is not going to be written by people who cry tears of joy when the Christian cross of his fathers is denounced by his own church.

01:08:57.840 That's not going to be who writes history.

01:08:59.660 The people who write history are the people who are listening to this podcast and the people who support the institutions that represent this podcast.

01:09:07.140 And so I'm happy to be part of you.

01:09:08.920 Thank you for supporting altright.com.

01:09:11.660 And if you want more about me, I've been on the radio for 13 years fighting this battle on the AM radio, thepoliticalcessible.org.

01:09:19.660 Thank you, Richard.

01:09:20.320 Thank you, Hunter.

01:09:21.440 Yeah.

01:09:21.780 Thanks, James.

01:09:22.340 Awesome.

01:09:22.480 And you can visit me at occidentaldessent.com and, of course, also check out altright.com where I'm sure this will be posted.

01:09:32.340 And I hope all our friends in the media and the Southern Baptists can listen to what we had to say about them this evening.

01:09:39.960 Yes.

01:09:40.500 Thanks, Richard, for having me.

01:09:42.500 And thanks, James.

01:09:43.540 It's always great to talk to you all.

01:09:44.840 I'll talk to you all later.

01:09:45.820 Bye-bye.

01:09:46.040 Bye-bye.

01:09:46.100 Bye-bye.

01:09:46.160 Bye-bye.

01:09:48.100 Bye-bye.

01:09:50.100 Bye-bye.

01:09:52.480 Bye-bye.

01:10:22.480 Bye-bye.

01:10:52.480 Bye-bye.

01:10:53.380 Bye-bye.

01:10:54.580 Bye-bye.

01:10:56.280 Bye-bye.

01:11:05.220 Bye-bye.

01:11:12.940 Bye-bye.

01:11:14.240 Bye-bye.

01:11:16.500 We'll be right back.

01:11:46.500 We'll be right back.

01:12:16.500 We'll be right back.

01:12:46.500 We'll be right back.

RadixJournal - June 22, 2017

The Satanic Verses

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