The Troll Storm
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 14 minutes
Words per minute
174.74706
Harmful content
Misogyny
25
sentences flagged
Toxicity
61
sentences flagged
Hate speech
14
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode, I chat with Twitch streamer Stardust. Stardust is a streamer, podcaster, and content creator. He has been a long time member of the Disruptive Rights Movement, and has been involved in a variety of political movements.
Transcript
00:00:12.520
Just had to deal with some annoying stuff, but this is the good stuff, so I'll be in
00:00:30.600
I actually was going over your conversation with Destiny, so it was pretty interesting.
00:00:36.660
Well, let's, we can talk about that a little bit.
00:00:40.140
Let's, I, first, I wanted to have you on, first off, because I thought we've had some
00:00:47.480
good conversations, and so, you know, I wanted to repay the favor and all that kind of stuff.
00:00:55.220
But also, I kind of wanted to learn more about you and where you're coming from, because I
00:01:03.620
think you have a lot of interesting connections to people.
00:01:08.380
You're kind of, I think you're pretty, you're representative also of kind of like a young
00:01:14.040
And I guess at this point, being I'm a 44-year-old man, I'm like, oh, young people and your slang.
00:01:24.040
But, so I wanted to learn a little bit about that.
00:01:28.080
So why don't you just, you know, introduce yourself and kind of tell us just, yeah, tell
00:01:34.920
us a little, you know, as much as you're comfortable with, of course, you know, just a little bit
00:01:39.280
about yourself and what you do and stuff like that.
00:01:47.980
I am Stardust, I do content creation online, I'm a streamer, I kind of, I started off streaming
00:01:57.160
like several years ago, and I did like more music kind of stuff, but it didn't really take
00:02:02.200
And I took a break for a while, came back and kind of fell into a couple of political conversations,
00:02:11.420
And so the streaming thing started to like really work for me, surprisingly, after, after
00:02:17.260
entering a couple of political conversations, getting into a few arguments with people.
00:02:21.900
And so, so I just kind of continued doing that.
00:02:25.480
And like early on, when I first started streaming, I was talking with, with like fundamentalists,
00:02:33.440
like Muslim dudes, and then a weird mix of like, far right people who hated those guys.
00:02:39.320
And those two groups were tied together, but they were like, always fighting with each
00:02:44.000
other, even though they had like more in common, they believed more in common with each other
00:02:48.060
than, than, than they had things that they differed in.
00:02:52.740
And I was like the odd one out with that group, because I was like the liberal, you know, yeah,
00:02:59.580
I was just like the liberal chick with the soy beliefs or whatever.
00:03:03.780
Um, and both of them also, both of those groups were terrible at jokes.
00:03:09.020
They really like, they did not understand when I was making a joke.
00:03:16.020
Then I started kind of getting into the Twitch politics, destiny sphere, uh, Vosch sphere
00:03:28.380
And then I, I've always been super interested in the like dissident rights sphere as well.
00:03:33.520
So, um, I don't know, like it was something when I was younger, a few years ago, uh, not
00:03:39.820
even, I would say like seven or eight years ago, I would have like looked at like that
00:03:44.600
sphere and been kind of very, um, wary, very, um, very like cautious about getting involved.
00:03:53.600
Um, and I think I've just reached a point in my life where, um, I, my, my curiosity about
00:04:00.440
like the way that people think, the way that these people who think radically different
00:04:04.380
things from me, uh, where it comes from, it just overpowers any cautiousness I would
00:04:12.680
Well, you told me about all these, uh, thought policemen who were contacting you, um, after
00:04:20.120
Um, yeah, um, funnily, you know, enough is, uh, I, you know, I had you on the first time
00:04:28.720
So I thought, you know what, I'm going to do it again.
00:04:35.000
Um, funny enough, um, you know, same people who had a problem with me having you on don't
00:04:43.600
Um, which I think, you know, the conversations are not that interesting, not that different,
00:04:51.840
I've been kind of getting the woke, scolded, uh, treatment from kind of the, like the libs
00:04:59.180
And even with some of the, the right wingers online who, who, you know, they will police
00:05:04.160
each other and police people that they see and who they talk to.
00:05:07.840
Um, so I, I've been kind of, I've used, I'm used to getting that, but yeah, essentially
00:05:13.660
Um, I just make content, um, I make drama and political content and I kind of like to
00:05:18.320
look at these, um, spheres of politics that I myself may not align with, but I find like
00:05:28.320
What kind of music content were you doing in the beginning?
00:05:31.780
Um, it was, well, I would just do like, um, I would just like play piano and sing songs
00:05:37.180
to people and I'd have people come in and ask me to make a song for them.
00:05:41.020
And then I would like make a song for them and things like that.
00:05:45.840
So, um, yeah, I would, I would like, they'd be like, can you write a song about a cat that's
00:05:52.840
And I'd be like, all right, yeah, I can do that.
00:05:54.820
So, so I, I'm, I'm beginning to glimpse your childhood.
00:05:58.360
I'm thinking upper middle-class Indian on the East coast and you studied piano.
00:06:06.420
And yeah, I, I, uh, studied both of those things and, um, yeah, that's pretty accurate.
00:06:18.240
Um, when I was, uh, yeah, I, so for the most part, I studied classical piano.
00:06:24.380
I studied music in college and like everybody has their, uh, like coming out moment in college,
00:06:31.520
They, they come out of the closet and for me, it wasn't like, for me, it wasn't like coming
00:06:36.100
It was like, uh, I'm a jazz person now, or I'm a contemporary music person now.
00:06:42.320
But, um, my mom had always been pushing me to like, kind of look into more jazz and contemporary
00:06:48.400
So went to college, you know, kind of fell into that.
00:06:57.880
So do you remember, what was your favorite song that you wrote for someone?
00:07:03.160
I think that's the most memorable one, but I, I think it's the most memorable one, but
00:07:07.660
I, I, I don't know that I have a favorite cause all of them were pretty basic, you know,
00:07:12.540
it wasn't like, it wasn't, and there was, there were no like masterpieces with that.
00:07:16.280
It was just me streaming to a small audience and making, uh, funny songs for people.
00:07:23.520
So you, so, so you, you dove right in with the dissonant right or like far right politics.
00:07:30.900
You're talking to Muslims and far right people and so on.
00:07:40.380
I think that may have been like, maybe actually that was like two years ago.
00:07:44.400
So that was, that was after, um, after I'd taken a break from streaming for a bit, but
00:07:49.840
before I fell into the Twitch politics sphere, um, and with like destiny and Vosh and those
00:07:55.180
people, it was, it was a little bit before then.
00:07:57.520
Um, and what that was, was there, you know, um, it was around COVID, um, there were a lot
00:08:04.660
of people who used to debate in person with each other, um, in the UK, but because there
00:08:10.040
was COVID, um, because of COVID, they couldn't meet up in person anymore.
00:08:13.700
So a lot of them took to online spaces and YouTube.
00:08:16.840
And so I just kind of, um, ran into those types of people and ended up arguing with them.
00:08:22.380
Um, and, uh, yeah, I just had a lot of fun with it really.
00:08:31.780
Uh, I've never been like, uh, growing up, I've always, I've never been a combative person
00:08:36.780
So, um, uh, so like, I feel like if anything, I've, uh, you know, I've been pretty close to
00:08:45.760
Um, but, uh, I think, um, I think just like arguing with people online, um,
00:08:52.380
getting combative with people online, learning to like have some good back and forth insulting,
00:08:57.380
uh, has really, um, done a lot for me as a person.
00:09:14.380
Um, so when I, when I met destiny for the first time, um, this past week, it was kind of a
00:09:27.560
It was kind of, I, I noticed the degree to which I've been, I guess, I don't know, de-urbanized
00:09:36.380
Cause I, I have lived in these urban environments, but it was pretty wild.
00:09:46.400
Um, and, uh, the whole thing just smells like marijuana.
00:09:51.340
Well, yeah, it's not even, that's not even destiny's place, right?
00:10:02.000
He was a nice guy, but when we first were just sitting in the green room, he was a bit
00:10:09.580
And then after we had had this conversation, he, he actually was, um, you know, I, you
00:10:15.260
I think he just needed a little, uh, to get a little comfortable with me.
00:10:18.080
I don't, I don't know if he thought that I was going to come in carrying a Tiki torch
00:10:23.600
Uh, but, uh, but yeah, I, I, I liked him and I, I actually mentioned to him, I was like,
00:10:28.760
you know, if there is, there are a few streamers that I will listen to and, and that have,
00:10:35.840
you know, kind of affected me to some degree, or at least, at least I respect their argumentation.
00:10:42.860
They're just like willingness to go down logical roads.
00:10:45.120
And I was like, I, I hesitate to tell you because, um, it might surprise you or anger
00:10:51.220
And I, and then he was like, oh, it's Vouch, isn't it?
00:10:59.800
And then kind of created a Frankenstein's monster of sorts.
00:11:06.980
I mean, one of the things that I almost like about Vouch is that he's a bit, he's bombastic
00:11:11.740
and he like wants to literally throw Republicans into re-education camps and, and, you know,
00:11:18.440
kind of like, and my also impression of destiny is he's not like that.
00:11:23.760
Uh, no, he's much more like middle of the road, willing to bridge gaps, things like that.
00:11:28.420
He's not like a, an alarmist or, uh, you know, the same way that, that Vouch is.
00:11:37.040
Um, but so do you, you know, this is one thing that we've talked about, uh, you know,
00:11:42.940
in other contexts, but you know, things like Hollywood are declining rapidly and they don't
00:11:51.140
have the cultural purchase or like purchase on people's minds and imagination like they used to.
00:12:00.680
I mean, how, how old are you, if you don't mind my asking?
00:12:06.480
Well, yeah, but, but still, um, I mean, yeah, you are a little bit old because there are a lot
00:12:10.760
of people who are on this stuff all day who were 17 or something.
00:12:13.800
Um, but I guess, I guess my point is that like a lot of the, like the headspace has shifted
00:12:21.240
over and there's this whole world of live stream and live streaming, creating original
00:12:28.660
content, talking with each other, kind of getting to these arguments over politics, et cetera,
00:12:33.860
that, that I think for like Gen Z and younger millennials, it's, it's kind of like, it's replaced
00:12:42.140
what the culture that I would have in growing up in the eighties and nineties, where it would
00:12:48.820
be, you know, uh, we'd be watching action movies, you know, for entertainment, we'd be reading
00:12:56.000
magazines and books and all the stuff that's, that's totally gone by the wayside.
00:13:01.360
Um, but I, I think there's just this like whole sphere that, you know, if, if anything,
00:13:07.700
it's not even that like COVID damaged Hollywood or, or, um, or it's too much money to go to
00:13:14.200
It's like, there's, there's something that's replaced that.
00:13:17.320
And, um, it's something that's very different than, um, you know, it's very different than
00:13:24.060
the kind of top down produced content of, uh, yesteryear.
00:13:34.400
And there's a lot of it that is almost like sludge in a way, like there's people will
00:13:40.340
just go on five hour live streams and just talk to one.
00:13:46.760
Like it's, you know, whenever I do things, I liked that, you know, it's like, there's
00:13:52.900
Um, although granted in this, in this group, particularly as we get into like the second
00:13:57.440
and third hour of these conversations, we'll go all over the place.
00:14:03.460
Like, I, I think in terms of, uh, you know, I want to say something, I want to get into
00:14:09.080
I, I want to discuss this topic, et cetera, but there, there's almost like a, um, life
00:14:15.340
streaming or like, like, like being as opposed to arguing quality to it.
00:14:21.920
I mean, for better and for worse, because some of it, I look at it and I'm like, how could
00:14:30.300
Well, I mean, I think of it, um, I actually think of live streaming similar to reality
00:14:36.220
Um, yeah, I think, um, I think that like things like Twitch TV or YouTube live streamers are
00:14:44.040
just kind of like, um, real housewives, but for men, um, like women were kind of watching
00:14:49.760
real housewives, watching like reality TV for a while.
00:14:52.320
Um, they'll have it in the background while they're doing, they're working out or they're,
00:14:56.960
And I think that's kind of what, um, live streaming has become to a lot of people.
00:15:01.420
Um, so a lot of the most successful live streamers are people who are really good.
00:15:15.480
Like you said, um, that's, that's unfortunately the side effect of reality TV.
00:15:20.520
And then eventually, you know, sometimes you'll get people like destiny or Vosch who
00:15:23.880
are a little bit less reality TV, a little bit more substantive, but, um, but you know,
00:15:37.560
And I've noticed just two other things, um, where I, I do think that, and this is the
00:15:44.920
And, and the second one is maybe bad, but maybe it kind of interesting.
00:15:48.700
So the first one is that I, I think a lot of young people wanted to get into these arguments.
00:15:53.940
Like they wanted to have these discussions and these kinds of things aren't being fulfilled
00:16:03.960
Like they, they actually wanted to get into some like deep argument about politics or society
00:16:09.860
or like what it means to be transgendered or like the Bible, they, they really, they really
00:16:15.340
wanted to get into those discussions, like a deep dive.
00:16:18.720
And it's just not being fulfilled at all by the entertainment industry.
00:16:27.160
I think, um, especially when I see a lot of the debates, not even around politics, but
00:16:32.300
around like dating culture, um, uh, the, the stuff around dating culture, around red,
00:16:37.060
red pill and incel culture, that stuff is really, um, like it's taking off.
00:16:42.760
Um, and I think it's taking off for a good reason because we see the rules of dating changing
00:16:49.340
We see what's acceptable and what's unacceptable in dating, uh, changing rapidly.
00:16:54.060
And, um, and people are confused and people are afraid of miss, you know, making missteps
00:17:00.200
and, and people don't know, um, how serious a misstep is when they make a misstep.
00:17:04.920
So yeah, these, um, debates are super important, um, because, you know, things are just changing
00:17:13.580
The, I think the other thing is that I've noticed is that with younger people, younger
00:17:20.240
millennials, and definitely Gen Z is this extreme polarization.
00:17:26.540
It's like polarization beyond polarization, um, where, I mean, I'll occasionally see like,
00:17:33.080
like there's a new K I don't even know if it's a cable, no one's watching it, but some
00:17:37.680
new thing called like news nation or something where they've taken all of the retreads from
00:17:42.340
like, from like recent memory, like Chris Cuomo or whatever.
00:17:46.380
And they're, they're doing like a unbiased, you know, news thing.
00:17:50.300
And I, I saw this thing on my YouTube feed of, of Chris Cuomo and, um, uh, Bill O'Reilly
00:18:01.780
And they were having these covers and they were like, you know, we, we as Americans, we
00:18:05.040
need to bridge these divides and, you know, get together.
00:18:07.060
But what I've also noticed the trend on for, for younger people and particularly on these
00:18:13.060
forums, it's not like I'm a Democrat, you're a Republican, but we will, we'll try to get
00:18:19.380
along it's, I am a communist and then I am a fascist as someone like, well, like, you
00:18:30.240
And so there's also among young people, there's like this polarization that I don't even think
00:18:35.540
their parents could even imagine actually, but that this is actually the norm that this
00:18:41.700
You can certainly correct me, but like, is there right outside of destiny who kind of is a
00:18:46.560
centrist liberal slash Republicans, whatever that I think that's fair, but he still goes
00:18:52.740
He's talking to Nick Flint as he talked to me, he'll talk to people about, you know, he
00:18:59.520
I think that got him in trouble, you know, recently that, that no one would ever touch
00:19:05.180
Um, although we can go into that cause I'm, I'm willing to go there, but, but this like
00:19:10.000
young people, the extreme, the, the extremity to which they've been polarized, I don't think
00:19:17.180
Like there are a ton of young men out there who just outright say, I am a Nazi in fact.
00:19:24.100
And at the same time on like left, you know, live streaming or discord or whatever, it's
00:19:31.980
Like I am a Stalinist, like I am a Maoist, like it's, and this is almost like the norm
00:19:41.560
Um, I think it's really interesting to look at the polarization in some of these spheres
00:19:45.780
because it's not even, um, like you said, it's not like I'm a Republican and I'm a Democrat
00:19:51.360
It's you're, um, you're a Marxist Leninist and I'm a socialist and there is nothing that
00:20:02.940
And, and, and like, you'll see these two people who, who have more in common than they have
00:20:08.820
And they, because of these small differences, they are like the worst enemies on earth.
00:20:13.960
You can see it in the, in the far right, like dissident rights spheres too.
00:20:17.500
Um, uh, you know, the, the fracturing of, um, Christian nationalists and, and, um, AF
00:20:26.060
Like, uh, like America first and Christian nationalists were like kind of on the same
00:20:33.140
I don't know what exactly happened, but, um, now they, now they're like enemies, um, and
00:20:38.600
they have more in common with each other than, um, well, it seems like Nick is now a Christian
0.92
00:20:44.480
I mean, that, that all the, I guess, yeah, I mean, he, well, the Christian, there's like
00:20:49.620
the Christian nationalists that won't associate with AF.
00:20:52.340
Um, they used to, they used to be associated, they used to like be friendly with Nick because
00:20:57.680
they had similar views, but, um, there was like a, there's a Christian nationalist kind
00:21:02.660
of like sect that kind of fractured and won't associate themselves with AF and kind of view
00:21:13.400
Um, I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but, um, uh, but that's kind of how they view
00:21:18.280
And so, um, so you see like these groups who otherwise have so much in common with each
00:21:24.580
other that, um, because they, they have disagreements or they have like personal issues, they can't
00:21:33.060
Um, and they are better at talking to people across the aisle than to people who are like
00:21:39.220
It's very, very, well, I think, I think it's, I think there are kind of two things going
00:21:43.480
I mean, first off, there's the narcissism of small differences, which is, I think is
00:21:48.380
the phrase of just, you know, obsessing about some doctrinal thing.
00:21:52.220
There, there was another, uh, maxim that I think Henry Kissinger said, but maybe someone
00:21:58.240
And it was basically like when the stakes are so low, the nastiness is so high.
00:22:03.520
He probably articulated it better, but what he means is like, you know, Nixon can go visit
00:22:08.900
Mao, um, and, and, and, you know, they have nuclear weapons pointed at one another.
00:22:14.620
And so they almost have to be very cordial and, you know, Oh, we have so much in common
00:22:21.980
And, um, but then when you're on campus and there's in a way nothing at stake, you become
00:22:27.960
just excessively nasty towards the person who's right next to you to kind of prove yourself.
00:22:34.400
Um, but I think there's also something going on, which is that the level of extremism among
00:22:42.180
young people who are online, I think you could like, maybe at best, it's almost like, you
00:22:49.440
know, just kids having fun or it's meaningless narcissism, a small distance, uh, small differences,
00:22:54.060
but maybe at worst, it kind of says something a lot bigger and, and a lot darker in the sense
00:23:00.980
that like, they're totally disconnected from the mainstream.
00:23:07.160
Like they don't have anything invested in the mainstream.
00:23:09.460
And so they're just like, what, you want to talk to me about the welfare state?
1.00
00:23:13.420
I'm a Stalinist, you know, or like, you want to talk to me about the GOP?
1.00
00:23:19.280
You know, it's, it's like, and maybe it is kind of meaningless on some level, but, but,
00:23:23.500
but on another level is actually very meaningful.
00:23:25.540
Like there's this, this online extremist communities or the incels or whatever.
00:23:33.120
And, and I think maybe it's being like under, it's certainly being underserved by the mainstream,
00:23:37.640
but it's also being like, uh, un, unappreciated.
00:23:42.220
Like they don't, they don't quite recognize how serious this is.
00:23:47.140
So Henry Kissinger said this, Eric said, the reason that university politics is so vicious
00:23:58.020
I was just going to say, um, like, you can see again with like AF and, and like the, um,
00:24:03.060
the Christian nationalists who won't associate with AF, they swat each other all the time.
00:24:06.960
They, they will, they will like, they, uh, like it's insane.
00:24:14.000
Um, and then same thing with people on the left, you'll see like, um, uh, super far left
00:24:19.240
people who will target other leftists and dox them, um, and put all their information
00:24:24.440
Um, and, uh, it's like, it's really interesting.
00:24:28.600
And I think you actually touched on something that I think, um, is a really interesting dichotomy
00:24:35.940
Um, you both were talking about how there's, um, there's kind of like, uh, with globalization,
00:24:43.480
you see like certain things in our culture that are like widespread.
00:24:47.680
Um, and so you see kind of like a more, um, a more homogenous, like global culture, right?
00:24:54.960
Like you'll see certain things that are in common, um, among people all across the globe
00:25:01.860
Um, and so you kind of get like a, a more, um, globalized community, um, and you've got
00:25:10.560
a more generic, like kind of, um, experience, but at the same time with the advent of technology,
00:25:17.100
we've got like a hyper individualized, um, experience online, um, where like TikTok is, um,
00:25:24.500
is feeding us things based on the algorithm, um, and things that are unique to us.
00:25:29.760
Um, and, uh, and technology is catered to the way that you're, you know, your likes and
00:25:35.240
your brain and, um, and knows your likes before you even know your likes.
00:25:39.260
Um, and so I think that's a really interesting dichotomy as well.
00:25:45.960
I mean, the, the ability of that, of the algorithm to kind of understand what you want better than
00:25:53.380
you do, like, you're not even subscribing to anything.
00:25:55.980
It's just kind of feeding you and learning and maybe even seeing how long you stay on
00:26:01.620
something like you might not even for, for whatever reason you kind of stay on some, uh,
00:26:07.560
you know, uh, whatever they're called, TikToks for longer.
00:26:22.100
I, I guess that, I guess where I was trying to go with that is that, um, you know, like
00:26:26.000
a lot of these people online are, are looking for this to be individuals.
00:26:30.700
Like we're all very, you know, we're individualistic people.
00:26:34.500
Um, and some of it may be that people are falling into these fringe ideologies because
00:26:44.160
Um, just like, you know, similar to like how many, um, kids are identifying as like, um, LGBTQ,
00:26:56.680
Um, and it may just be, um, the natural result of like the, this natural result of, um, people
00:27:05.660
feeling less, uh, feeling like they have less individualized content on a, on a broader scale.
00:27:12.060
So they find it online and like a more fractured, um, internet community, I suppose, if that
00:27:18.480
makes any sense, I don't know if it's making sense.
00:27:22.520
Well, I mean, I think we're, we're questing, we're questing online for like self-understanding.
00:27:30.860
And I, and I think there's, there's been a lot of, uh, huge issues with that.
00:27:34.860
Like at these, these notions of like, I'm demisexual or something, which is just basically
00:27:41.440
like you are monogamous or, or, or whatever you want a boyfriend badly.
00:27:45.380
Um, there didn't have to be a kind of word for them or an almost a pathology for it previously.
00:27:51.980
And we've, we've now, we're now kind of like questing for all of these ways of making ourselves
00:28:00.480
special or, or self-expression or, you know, individuality, uh, online.
00:28:05.420
And, and I think that can obviously lead to some very bad, uh, consequences.
00:28:12.240
I think, you know, and people look for, like, we used to have goths and punks and preps and
00:28:21.360
I'm a little bit disconnected from like high schoolers and what the, what they're up to,
00:28:24.960
but, um, but I, I kind of can see, you know, some of it is, some of it is honest, obviously
00:28:32.580
some of these people are honest in what they believe in, but there also probably isn't in
00:28:36.620
there, there probably is also a, um, aspect of like identity that, that plays into this
00:28:47.680
I mean, I, I think that's what all of these people are doing.
00:28:49.700
And that also kind of explains the, you know, I'm a communist, I'm a Marxist Leninist or,
00:28:55.300
or whatever, when, you know, are you, I mean, it's, it's, it's, but there, there's almost
00:29:00.820
this like need for self-definition, um, that, uh, that people have.
00:29:06.400
So, okay, let me talk about some things that are a little more, um, uh, I don't know, salacious
00:29:14.300
So what happened with you and the Groypers?
0.96
00:29:17.580
Cause I, I remember Mark, I was talking with Mark Brauman beforehand and he was like, you
00:29:21.600
should, you should learn about like, uh, what is it like experiencing this kind of thing?
00:29:26.640
Cause you got banned, your channel got banned actually at one point.
00:29:33.500
I mean, I'm still on, on, I'm still on, on decent terms with them, with the Groypers,
0.82
00:29:37.780
but, um, I have a really weird, like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I have like a
00:29:44.340
really weird ability to just be on like decent terms with most people, I think.
00:29:48.260
Um, so, uh, so essentially I was interviewing Ethan Ralph and he brought his wife on and
0.99
00:30:03.260
I, I have a, a kind of a habit of asking uncomfortable questions.
00:30:07.540
I don't really like, I just kind of, especially if I don't get the chance to write them out
00:30:11.700
beforehand, then they become really uncomfortable.
00:30:13.880
Um, and, and he kind of sprung this on me last minute that his wife was going to be joining
00:30:19.360
him and that he wanted me to interview his wife.
00:30:21.720
So, um, I don't know what went through my mind, but I just asked him, um, you know,
00:30:31.760
I asked her, I asked Ethan Ralph's wife, have you seen his tape?
00:30:35.020
And, um, for anybody who's not familiar with that, um, there is a sex tape that is out there
00:30:42.600
on the internet of Ethan Ralph with somebody else.
00:30:45.880
Um, and yeah, so I, I asked him, I asked her that and Ethan was already mad at me because
00:30:52.600
I asked him about Nick Ricada earlier and apparently him and Nick Ricada don't have a good relationship.
00:30:59.020
Um, so, so he was already mad at me and I asked him about that and it kind of set him
00:31:04.780
And the rest of the interview went downhill very quickly.
00:31:12.440
He was asking, uh, I don't know if you've seen the clip.
00:31:15.260
There's a clip, uh, that went around where he's just, uh, screaming at me.
00:31:20.120
Um, how many people have you spread your, you know, excuse my language, but how many people
0.99
00:31:25.700
you spread your pussy for online and all that.
1.00
00:31:28.280
And he's just, he's just yelling at me like that.
00:31:30.720
Um, and so, you know, I'm trying to do the thing that I usually do where I try to like
00:31:36.100
wrangle the person who's really upset, um, and just be calm with them and kind of like,
00:31:43.400
Um, but, uh, by that point, his audience was already super mad at me.
00:31:48.420
Now, I don't know if it was him who directed his audience to report me, but I know it was
00:31:52.920
somebody in his audience who mass reported me on YouTube, got my YouTube taken down.
00:31:58.260
Um, uh, and I, I know this because there's a specific website that, um, people in his
00:32:04.980
audience will go to when they think they're coordinate, when, when they're coordinating,
00:32:11.820
Um, and so I looked at that website and, um, and my stuff was on there and they, you know,
00:32:18.080
they had a bunch of stuff that they thought they knew about me on there.
00:32:23.480
It looked like, you know, immediately this, this happens like just a day or two after
00:32:28.080
that, um, falling out with Ethan and, uh, you know, the, the timing is very suspicious.
00:32:35.980
Um, and there, and there's this one like super fan of Ethan who's saying like, I should have
00:32:42.060
And, you know, I don't know what that means, but, um, essentially like there was enough
00:32:46.460
evidence for me to think, okay, this is at the very least somebody in his audience got
00:32:50.180
really mad at me and coordinated mass flagging and got my YouTube taken down.
00:32:57.100
After that, I mean, everybody kind of knows that there's a history of this with that
00:33:02.580
Um, so I got retweeted by a bunch of different larger YouTube creators, um, a bunch of people
00:33:08.400
who, who know that there's a history with this, who know, you know, and so luckily after
00:33:13.780
a few days, my YouTube got reinstated, but it was very scary for me.
00:33:17.900
Um, so yeah, they're like, who would have known that the mass flagging that would occur
00:33:28.240
Well, yeah, no, that's my entire experience actually, particularly of late, like for all
00:33:35.180
the liberals who posted a punch, a Nazi meme or something like there's been a million right
0.75
00:33:41.520
wingers who have just kind of fucked around with me or they, they immediately, I've noticed
1.00
00:33:48.120
I'll, I'll put out a tweet that might even be entirely innocuous.
00:33:55.940
And I do think that these are, uh, I don't know, bop behavior coordinated within a second.
00:34:01.720
There's like an immediate response that has nothing to do with what I just said.
00:34:06.300
That's attacking me on some kind of personal way or like posting an unflattering photo or,
00:34:12.660
or, or, or just doing some, you know, um, you just, yeah.
00:34:17.180
You know, you just, you just, you're, you want your ex-wife back and that's why you're,
00:34:24.960
Um, and, but again, it happens almost immediately.
00:34:28.460
Like there's a notification set on these things.
00:34:34.720
Like it's so, it's pretty, uh, as Eddie grace, it is just totally incoherent messages.
00:34:39.380
Um, but, uh, yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all.
0.96
00:34:43.600
And it is just totally ridiculous and nasty.
0.86
00:34:45.960
I mean, you know, the question is within bounds, even if it's a bit on the line, but
0.99
00:34:56.900
It was definitely, um, you know, it was definitely kind of, uh, you know, it wasn't an inappropriate
00:35:00.880
question for sure, but he's somebody who's talked about it himself, right?
00:35:07.140
It, um, apparently there was a video that surfaced of his wife, uh, before they were
00:35:18.780
Um, everybody knows about it and it may have been inappropriate for me to ask, but I asked
00:35:24.160
it, uh, do I deserve to have my YouTube channel?
00:35:29.260
I'm, I would, I would say probably not, but you know, of course not.
00:35:34.180
Yeah, but there's just a fanatical horde of these people and they act in a coordinated
00:35:39.240
And it's, it's a kind of like mind that they all jump on.
00:35:43.340
I think that's an, another kind of fascinating aspect of, you know, social media, uh, represents
00:35:50.740
You know, it's not, it's not actually something new.
00:35:53.960
We've seen this before, but, but it, it happens more kind of immediately.
0.99
00:35:57.000
And maybe even in a nastier fashion where people get mad at Tim pool, you know, fuck
0.99
00:36:03.660
Obviously I'm not defending him, but like people get mad at Tim pool.
00:36:13.400
Um, so anyway, I mean, this was another, so what was, what was destiny's you were on
00:36:23.040
I saw a clip of it where they were discussing, um, I, I don't even know the top, but I think
00:36:29.800
you and Lauren Southern and destiny and a few other people were on one of these things.
00:36:34.080
And there was like, he said something to the effect just because you abuse children, excuse
0.86
00:36:49.060
You know, I actually tend to agree with destiny.
00:36:54.940
So I don't know exactly this, this one that you're talking about, but, um, but if I were
00:37:00.440
to be charitable, um, I think, uh, you know, there are statistics that show that most people
00:37:14.560
Um, and, um, I, it may have been during the time when he was talking to Mr. Girl when Mr.
00:37:20.180
Girl was, you know, kind of popping up and becoming his own thing.
00:37:29.540
He just seems almost like, I mean, I, I did an interview one time and I, I, I did it on actually
00:37:37.540
Ethan Ralph's channel and I thought I handled myself fine, but I, I get a kind of icky feeling
00:37:46.680
Like he's trying to do, I don't know that I just.
00:37:51.740
So, um, he is this guy who got really famous on YouTube for making a video called, like
00:37:59.440
he, it was a cuties review, essentially review the movie cuties.
00:38:02.880
And, um, in it he is, um, and now my suspicion is that he was, he was like joking.
00:38:11.620
Um, but he basically saying like, oh yeah, if you're worried about kids looking hot in
00:38:16.140
that, like, um, you know, uh, uh, they succeeded or whatever like that, he, he, something like
00:38:22.560
And he's basically saying that he thinks that these girls are hot in the, in the, in the
00:38:27.980
Um, now what my suspicion is, is that it was like a joke to his audience that kind of blew
00:38:33.300
up because it was so controversial and he, because it blew up, he kind of doubled down
00:38:39.080
Um, I don't, uh, that's just, that's just what I, I, my assumptions are, um, what Bryce
00:38:47.120
is saying is, is true as well, that he got, um, I think he got arrested for saying that
00:38:52.360
he understood why, um, back in college, he got arrested for saying he understood why,
00:38:57.700
uh, somebody would like shoot up a school or something like that.
00:39:04.260
He's, he's got a long history of it, 15 years of being a provocateur, writing articles
00:39:09.060
that are, that, you know, that are, um, uh, what's a good word for it?
00:39:16.480
Uh, just writing articles that are, are very, um, outrage provoking, um, making videos that
00:39:25.020
Um, and I think, you know, the, I think he likes to get a reaction out of people.
00:39:32.700
Um, and I think that's kind of like, I used to be friendly with a guy, but, um, we fell
00:39:38.080
out, um, because of a converse debate we had actually, um, uh, about consent.
00:39:46.040
And I felt like he was just messing with me, trying to get, get a reaction out of me the
00:39:54.320
I don't even know how to describe the, the personality, but it's just very, very creepy.
00:39:59.040
And he, he is, he just is clearly, I don't think he even understands what good faith is.
00:40:03.680
Like it's just, it's all, anything he says is about getting a reaction out of someone.
00:40:15.260
Um, there's some kind of probably personality disorder that this is coming from, but it's
00:40:20.860
just, yeah, it's, it's a very, uh, a very creepy thing.
00:40:23.940
But so what was, what was going on with destiny or you seem to not remember something.
00:40:29.760
I guess my point was that you actually can't have difficult, difficult though, important
00:40:36.920
conversations with a lot of these people, just because of the kind of extremism and gut
00:40:45.620
I think if I think if I'm thinking what it is, it could have been this, um, podcast where
00:40:50.100
there is Lauren Southern, there are a bunch of other ladies on it.
1.00
00:40:52.860
And, um, destiny came on, um, and they asked him, um, they were talking about like, should
0.98
00:40:59.880
you immediately want to kill all pedophiles or something like that?
0.99
00:41:03.180
Um, and I believe destiny's destiny's argument was that, well, there are going to be people
00:41:11.540
We should want people who haven't acted on it, who recognize a problem, uh, to get therapy
00:41:16.600
rather than just immediately like imprison them.
00:41:20.240
And so I think, I think that's what the argument was.
00:41:23.680
Um, and I think that they were making a kind of, a kind of right-wing virtue signaling argument,
0.99
00:41:28.640
which is that we actually want to kill all pedophiles and yeah.
0.99
00:41:33.600
I mean, that's, it's also left-wing thing.
0.96
00:41:35.500
It's like the, the ultimate virtue signal for everybody is like, oh, pedophiles, I hate
0.99
00:41:44.680
Um, so I think his argument was just that, you know, we shouldn't want to kill all of
00:41:50.600
them because, um, uh, probably a lot of them don't want to offend.
00:41:55.000
Probably a lot of them want to, uh, you know, uh, seek out therapy.
00:41:59.440
And when you look at the statistics actually of like who abuses children, um, the people
00:42:04.860
who, who abuse children tend, you know, most of them are not pedophiles.
00:42:08.860
They just, they're just opportunistically acting.
00:42:12.180
Um, well, yeah, well, it might, I mean, maybe opportunistic is not maybe the right word,
00:42:17.580
but, um, but yeah, I had this conversation actually with someone who's, who's on this,
00:42:22.360
um, chat and it's, it, it, it's, um, or on this call rather, but it's very, it's a very
00:42:31.620
Um, and we have a, we have an image of a pedophile as the creepy monster who hangs around playgrounds
00:42:42.420
And, and to some degree that stereotype holds for some people.
00:42:46.700
Um, but in terms of child abuse itself, a lot of it is, is happening in the home and
00:42:55.420
it's happening from parents or uncles or what, you know, that kind of thing, close relations,
00:43:01.140
step-parents, and, um, it's not, they're, they're not necessarily a danger to wider society.
00:43:08.540
And, and it, it kind of almost makes it worse in a way or, or darker at the very least where
00:43:15.240
they're, they're only a danger really to their own children.
00:43:18.700
And there's something, there's something has gone wrong.
0.52
00:43:25.580
I'm sure that also happens, but, but, but there's also some just kind of a horrifying.
00:43:30.960
Dark thing that that's going on, uh, as well, but they're, they're not actually predators
00:43:37.680
in the way that we imagine them of, you know, the creepy guy with big glasses and we in a
00:43:44.620
pocket protector, who's, you know, trying to seduce girls at the playground or something.
00:43:52.940
And you actually do need to make this distinction.
00:43:58.500
And, um, the person I was talking to who was saying this, and, um, I don't know this
00:44:03.360
because this is certainly not my field, but the, the, that kind of child abuse that's happening
00:44:08.940
in the home isn't actually getting punished to the degree of the, the predator child abuse.
00:44:15.080
And, um, it should be, and it's harder, it's harder to learn about.
00:44:20.680
And it should be, and again, it's, it's kind of worse if anything.
00:44:28.640
But, but there, but there are that type of person who I guess you could call a minor attracted
00:44:34.540
They have this desire and it might very well be the result of abuse or who knows, there
00:44:44.020
Um, but it's something that you kind of have to discuss objectively.
00:44:49.500
Especially if you're going to solve the problem and not just treat it as like, let's kill
0.99
00:44:56.540
Because then who's going to come out about getting help and things like that.
00:45:02.600
And I mean, like, I obviously have a very like visceral reaction to, um, to a lot of the
00:45:08.940
stuff, but, um, but you know, it is true that a lot of it is in the home.
00:45:14.420
A lot of it is from, um, family members and, um, it's sad because, you know, as a child,
00:45:20.300
you're, uh, you need to love your parents, you need to love your family members.
00:45:25.880
And so, um, and so these children, they have this need to love their, these people were
00:45:33.580
Um, so Bryce, you wanted to, do you want to jump in here?
00:45:38.980
Um, I was wondering what you guys thought about changing attitudes toward pedophilia over time,
00:45:45.540
because I think there's this sense that back in the good old days, the wild west, people
0.93
00:45:49.920
would just hunt pedophiles for fun and kill them.
0.91
00:45:53.260
I think there were some misconceptions that, and obviously I think pedophilia is abhorrent,
0.99
00:45:58.360
but marrying, you know, 14 year old girls was common back in the old days.
0.59
00:46:04.060
And I've talked to a lot of people like Republicans and conservatives, and they seem to have the
00:46:07.980
sense that, that the idea of like marrying sexually, being sexually attracted to 14 year
00:46:15.220
And also have, have either of you read, uh, Nabokov and if so, what's your opinion of Lolita?
00:46:21.360
Cause I, I think Lolita is like, it's kind of the book that I feel the most disturbed
00:46:28.260
about because it's the writing style is so incredible, but the subject matter is so horrifying.
00:46:33.860
And I think it sort of reflects maybe changing attitudes toward pedophilia.
00:46:38.200
And I think like satanic panic and QAnon feeds into a lot of that as well.
00:46:43.580
But I was just wondering if you had any, yeah, well, you, you can jump in first, start us
00:46:47.900
and then I'll, I, I have something to say on this.
00:46:49.700
Um, I, I've only read like passages from, from that book.
00:46:53.900
Um, so I can't, I really, uh, weigh in with an opinion on it, but, um, as far as like changing
00:47:00.800
attitudes, like, I think obviously it's, it's still something that shouldn't be normalized.
00:47:04.960
I think, um, you know, we shouldn't normalize, you know, being attracted that way.
00:47:09.920
But, um, but I, I think maybe what we should do is normalize people seeking therapy for,
00:47:17.480
um, for, you know, disorders and for, and for, um, uh, for, you know, um, for things
00:47:26.120
that they don't, uh, they're very obviously going to be harmful to other people.
00:47:29.980
Um, maybe not, maybe not normalizing, like people coming out and being open about stuff
00:47:35.160
like that, because we, we still want like a social stigma around it.
00:47:39.180
Um, it's very important to have that stigma around it, but normalizing people saying like,
00:47:45.180
I have a problem and I need to seek help for it.
00:47:47.760
So, yeah, yeah, no, I, I actually have not read Lolita.
00:47:52.920
So that, that's a, it's a kind of hole in my literary, uh, education.
00:47:57.580
I, um, so yeah, I, I also, I've seen Stanley Kubrick's film, but that's, um, a little bit
00:48:02.040
different than getting into the, um, uh, to the prose.
00:48:06.180
I mean, these things come and go, um, actually in, in Ed Dutton's book, which I published about
00:48:12.340
almost a year ago, I guess now, um, the, there was actually a push towards the
00:48:17.740
words acceptance of these things in the sixties and seventies, and it actually went away.
00:48:23.340
So there was a kind of map push and it, it did strike me.
00:48:28.200
I mean, you know, again, these are distinctions with differences, even though they're all kind
00:48:32.540
of bad, but it did strike me as a, as these kind of free love advocates who were, you know,
00:48:38.740
excited about the birth control pill, because they could now go have sex with reckless abandon
00:48:45.780
And it was just a kind of consequence of that, but they're actually that it actually went away,
00:48:53.700
And I don't, I mean, I don't think it's, it's weird.
00:48:58.200
I think that, I think the panic over pedophilia or grooming or whatever has come back, but I'm
00:49:04.720
not sure the acceptance has, I think that's a bit of a myth.
00:49:08.140
I mean, it's, it's worth saying that, um, Milo got just immediately canceled.
00:49:14.920
Now, granted, maybe people were just looking for an excuse to cancel him, but there was,
0.93
00:49:21.520
I, no one came to his defense after his comments about, you know, getting raped is good.
1.00
00:49:28.020
And, and, you know, you should go find yourself a good priest or something.
0.92
00:49:31.220
And, and other comments in that area, which weren't actually presented as bad jokes.
00:49:37.020
They were, they were kind of presented as, as real and no one came to his defense.
00:49:41.500
I, I'm not positive that this nightmare scenario of liberals endorsing pedophilia is like just
00:49:55.200
I just, I think it, it's a kind of a bridge too far and it kind of doesn't adhere to a lot
00:50:01.420
of their other priors about like harm avoidance and things like that.
00:50:05.460
Um, so no, no, granted, um, you know, if, if you had told me 15 years ago that, uh, uh,
00:50:13.800
hormone therapy and reassignment at, at a fairly young age would, would, again, it's not happening
00:50:20.680
It's happening in very small numbers, in fact, but just the fact that it's a thing in general,
00:50:28.200
So, you know, I could be wrong about this, but I definitely think there's this huge panic.
00:50:33.120
And I believe I said this in my conversation with destiny.
00:50:37.180
Um, and if not, I'll say it here, but it's like, so, you know, there, there's these issues
00:50:42.580
over these books and in, in libraries and they're getting banned in Florida and conservatives are
00:50:49.400
And, and, and, you know, to be fair, I've seen some examples of these books and it's not
00:50:57.300
hardcore pornography, but it's also just not the kind of thing that I would ever want to
00:51:03.120
want to expose my children to, or anyone's children.
00:51:10.160
Um, that being said, I mean, you have to go to a library and actually read that book.
00:51:15.960
I mean, you, it's almost like a good problem to have in a way of, of like your children
00:51:23.440
The clear issue for children's like mental sanity, mental health and sanity and like
0.99
00:51:32.040
proper, you know, growing up and so on is, um, the omnipresence of online pornography.
00:51:41.940
And, and granted some conservatives have talked about that, but it, it seems like one of these
00:51:47.880
things where the conservatives like react to something and then find this like weird, useless
00:51:55.740
So the, the, the problem is that we're surrounded by a lot of stuff that is like truly toxic
00:52:09.600
I mean, I remember when I was like 14 or something, and I remember stealing a penthouse actually
00:52:19.840
He like went to the counter and dropped something and I like stole the penthouse.
00:52:24.620
So this was like the lengths you had to go to, to see pornography.
00:52:29.040
And, and then once we had this thing, we're like, Oh, what do we do with it?
00:52:35.620
Should we, you know, it was just, you know, we were just like going to, you know,
00:52:39.580
going through all jumping, going through over these obstacles just for like one glimpse
00:52:43.500
of, you know, some stripper showing us, you know, the goods.
1.00
00:52:50.800
You, you, you want to see some nightmare pornography scenario.
00:52:56.980
And it's just, it's just fundamentally different and it just can't be compared.
00:53:04.200
Don't talk about nudie mags of the past or like, you know, pornography.
00:53:09.580
In the ancient world or something like, it's just, it has no comparison and we need to
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00:53:16.760
And of course, conservatives address it in this just utterly useless way.
00:53:22.420
I would, I would even argue that, um, I think I would say that, um, like women in, on a whole
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00:53:31.880
and girls on a whole have been dealing with this issue for a long time.
00:53:35.940
Um, I think it's just recently become much more widespread because of the availability
00:53:40.860
But, um, you can look at like, I don't know, back when I was in high school, we had 17 magazine
00:53:45.760
and 17 magazine was something that like all of the girls in high school read.
00:53:50.620
And they had sex tips in the, in those magazines.
00:53:54.980
They, they, they had sex tips in those magazines.
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00:53:57.080
They had, um, they, you know, they had, uh, sexualized content.
00:54:01.160
They had, well, they had like pictures of girls who were, you know, very clearly in, in, um,
00:54:06.380
you know, showing off their goods, showing off like their, you know, their, uh, you know,
00:54:17.100
So this is getting, my parents never knew what was going on.
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00:54:19.500
They were like, they were like blowjob tips and stuff like in these.
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00:54:29.100
Some of them was, some of them were like, like, you know, like use an ice cube or something.
00:54:34.500
And so like some of them were less tame than others.
00:54:42.960
Uh, yeah, I, I wouldn't really know one way or the other, but, um, cause I'm, I'm not a man,
00:54:49.220
but, um, but, uh, so yeah, um, they're, they're like 17 magazine or, you know, you can look at
00:54:57.480
today, like high schoolers today are all using TikTok and you get more views by being more
00:55:02.320
promiscuous or not promiscuous, but being more provocative, being more, um, you know,
00:55:07.300
you're going to get more views as a girl and get more validation as a girl on Instagram
00:55:11.840
If you're in a bikini, then you are, if you're, um, dressed, uh, you know, just normally.
00:55:18.000
Um, so it's, it's almost kind of worse than that.
00:55:20.700
Cause I, I, so I had this like two week excursion into the world of TikTok and I just got rid
00:55:27.480
of it because I, I was, I learned what I needed to learn and I was kind of horrified.
00:55:31.080
Um, but one thing that I noticed is that they would have like average housewives from somewhere
1.00
00:55:39.080
and they were attractive women, of course, but, but it, cause they were getting these
1.00
00:55:42.160
views, but they, they were just normal housewives in Nebraska or whatever.
1.00
00:55:50.400
And so it wasn't even their words that they were doing it.
00:55:53.480
And it would be some kind of vulgar, you know, something like, you know, um, you know,
00:56:00.040
why am I a good housewife because I do the laundry and make dinner and take it up the
1.00
00:56:06.280
ass or something, just, just something that it's like, that's out there on the internet.
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00:56:10.980
Like you're, you're, you live in Milwaukee and you're 40 years old and that's there forever.
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00:56:20.300
What, what, there, there is some kind of like, and it wasn't even nude, but there's just some
00:56:29.960
I know, you know, I, I'll, I know people are kind of vulgar when they're alone, they're
00:56:40.780
This is, this is an illusion that of, of privacy and it's actually extremely public.
00:56:46.260
And there's just some kind of corrupting aspect to this.
00:56:52.680
Oh, I mean, again, what I would say is like, yeah, the, this act accessibility to porn is
00:56:57.380
obviously an issue, but I don't think it's, I don't think it's anything new either.
00:57:01.620
I think, I think what I see that's super troubling to me is, um, again, we're, uh, these girls are
00:57:13.460
It feels good to, feels good to get attention and validation and you're getting attention
00:57:21.320
You know, the more skin you show, the, the more validation you get.
00:57:24.680
And so I think that there's an issue there on obviously an issue with porn as well, but
00:57:29.320
when you personalize it so much, there's, there's definitely an issue.
00:57:35.280
Just, just kind of the only fans phenomenon or something like this.
00:57:41.380
It's almost worse when they're not making money at it or something.
00:57:49.700
How much, uh, how much of their, um, self-worth are they tying to it too?
00:58:01.940
Did you see this thing with Lauren Boebert, who's now a 36 year old grandmother?
00:58:09.040
So this is a kind of interesting little tidbit.
00:58:12.860
I, I wanted to tweet about this, but I, I had to take care of some other things today,
00:58:16.300
but, um, so Lauren Boebert was at this mom Republican rally type thing.
1.00
00:58:25.200
Um, and she says like, Oh, I'm very happy to announce this.
00:58:29.860
Uh, but my, you know, we brought life into the world and I'm a grandmother at 36.
00:58:34.820
And she actually said a few things that were pretty funny.
00:58:37.600
She said, um, you know, I made my mother, a grandmother at it when she was 36.
00:58:46.540
It's like, it probably is, you know, but, um, there, so her son, I believe got a girl
00:59:01.940
I mean, it, it's not the same as like a child bride in the 19th century or something, but
00:59:09.660
And, um, and groom, uh, teen groom and teen bride.
00:59:14.040
Um, but there, I, I guess there are a number of, of like aspects to this.
00:59:20.440
Um, and I, I saw that Richard Hanania, um, who I'll often agree with, but also often profoundly
00:59:29.440
disagree with, but, um, he said this is, it's like, it's not just a matter of fertility, but
00:59:41.700
And so like, there are women who went to Yale, got an internship throughout their early twenties,
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00:59:54.940
And now at age 36 have decided that they're going to have one child.
00:59:59.680
And, you know, Lauren Boebert's a grandma at age 36.
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01:00:03.680
And so on some level, at least demographically, Lauren Boebert is going to inherit the earth
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01:00:13.540
And this girl who went to Yale is not a moron.
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01:00:17.080
She's actually pretty civilized and probably waspy and, uh, Eddie grace to everyone.
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01:00:24.700
Um, but, uh, uh, but so it's, there, there is something there's, there's also this other
01:00:32.620
irony about it, which is that a lot of the anti-abortion, um, uh, movement is kind of wrapped
01:00:41.280
up in this like traditional Christianity or things like that.
01:00:47.860
Like, you know, we want to get rid of abortion.
01:00:49.860
We're going to force all these career gals to become wives and, and, uh, and good mothers
1.00
01:00:57.160
But at the end of the day, it's a kind of fertility cult.
01:01:01.160
And just merely that, like, there was no thought that, wow, that girl's 16 and your son is 17.
01:01:16.020
I was a complete maniac at that age, you know, like the, the, the idea of like taking care
01:01:22.280
of any, taking care of myself was too much to ask.
01:01:25.720
I mean, it's just, it's like, there's no even thought towards that there there's, you
01:01:30.400
know, it seems like the best of the anti-abortion crusade would almost be like, you know, where
01:01:35.900
we were Stanford tradition and the family and so on.
01:01:38.880
And it's, it's almost like they're now just a pure fertility cult where it's just like,
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01:02:02.580
That's a really interesting way to think about it, especially with like the, the frequency
01:02:10.180
Um, but yeah, I know that there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of alarmism.
01:02:14.400
About, um, about the, about the, uh, what is it called?
01:02:25.700
There's a lot of alarmism around that, around, um, around, um, the amount that we're reproducing.
01:02:31.620
And, um, and I understand the, the reason for the alarm, you know, we need people to, um,
01:02:39.020
we need new people to, you know, carry the workload, you know, into the future and carry
01:02:45.380
the earth, you know, or, or something like that.
01:02:47.520
Um, but at the same time, um, somebody, somebody brought up an interesting point that there's
01:02:54.020
going to be a lot of automation and a lot of like robotics in the future.
01:02:57.980
And that maybe, um, it's not as big of a deal as, as we think it is because we have a lot
01:03:05.940
I have no opinion on this myself, but, um, but it's an interesting thought.
01:03:10.420
Like, is there an amount of automation and amount of, um, an amount of, uh, uh, like
01:03:19.000
techno technological advancement that would make us worry less about reproducing, worry
01:03:25.480
less about, you know, reprodu, reproducing rates and how many children people are having.
01:03:30.320
So, well, I think that's, uh, that's definitely an issue.
01:03:35.000
Um, I, I think there's also a question of like, what is the sustainability of this planet?
01:03:41.240
And, and so on, do we, you know, to the pro-lifers or like, you know, at some point, like if everyone
01:03:48.000
has five kids and we have growing demographics year after year, after year, like we're, you
01:03:55.760
know, the planet is, is going to have a hundred billion people on it.
01:03:59.720
And what, what does that mean in terms of, I mean, even putting aside like climate change,
01:04:04.300
what, what does that mean in terms of just space, the natural world, uh, area, just living
01:04:09.420
conditions, um, poverty, I mean, these favela cities and so on in South America, I mean,
01:04:20.180
And to think that that wouldn't be the case with a population is, um, completely naive.
01:04:26.000
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think that there are a lot of serious issues like on, on both sides
01:04:34.060
And, and I think the, the issue that I also kind of care about most is, is, you know,
01:04:38.320
a kind of who and whom, you know, and I would rather, you know, I know, I know she's going
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01:04:44.120
to be a shit lib liberal, uh, shit lib Democrat voter or something, but like, I would rather
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01:04:49.660
that Yale graduate have two children than Lauren Boebert have, you know, a hundred or whatever
1.00
01:04:56.860
Um, I think that's just better for society and culture and, and, and et cetera.
01:05:03.020
Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I, I think there are a lot of huge issues, but I, I think the
01:05:08.660
main reality of the situation is that we are facing this problem.
01:05:15.480
Like I, I even have, and I still have this, I, I have a little bit of a conspiracy theory
01:05:24.340
And I, and I think it is coming from demographic, um, anxiety.
01:05:29.360
And, um, so obviously we have a lower birth rate, um, in the United States, but we're
01:05:38.420
actually not doing nearly as badly as, you know, South Korea, um, or Denmark or et cetera,
01:05:46.760
where they're, they're not even close to replacement.
01:05:49.480
I think all said and done, America has a replacement fertility rate.
01:05:53.560
I could go look at these or, or it's fairly close to it.
01:05:57.160
Although the pandemic affected things in a negative way.
01:06:00.660
Uh, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I think there, that, that issue is serious and you can't,
01:06:08.420
the, you know, immigration brings in its own problems.
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01:06:11.180
I mean, are you really going to bring in a hundred million immigrants?
01:06:15.080
We've seen that this is already, you know, it, there needs to be kind of a trickle and
01:06:20.180
not a flood, or you, you will just create problems.
01:06:23.140
I mean, just, you know, putting values aside, it's a difficult thing.
01:06:26.900
Um, but beyond that, uh, the, and, and this is where I'm relying on, um, Wasserman a bit
01:06:34.780
here, but the, the second world, so to speak, is going through its own collapse.
01:06:39.620
So Mexico is going through its own demographic collapse.
01:06:43.520
And that has been one of the primary sources of, of immigration legal and illegal.
01:06:48.120
And so like they, you know, cause there's this, this natural tendency, it's just a secular
01:06:54.160
law that you, you bring in medicine, people can live longer.
01:06:59.880
You bring in home technologies like a washing machine, you know, that, that you, you don't
01:07:05.680
need as much labor in the, in the household.
1.00
01:07:09.120
Um, you get educated, you start to kind of think for your, or women particularly start to
01:07:13.900
They sort of say, Oh, I want to have this and that.
01:07:15.820
And they're not just producing kids at 16 or something, like they're just this whole
01:07:21.220
It's, it's over-determined, um, childhood mortality goes down, which is a huge thing with medicine.
01:07:30.460
You can actually have two to get to, you know, um, so, you know, dramatically different from
01:07:39.940
I don't know if there's any real exception to this is that you start to get down to replacement
01:07:45.020
and then you start to maybe even drop below replacement as things become expensive and
01:07:50.920
Um, so it's like, we're going to face this problem either way.
01:07:57.760
And I have this theory that like, look, the Supreme court is the ultimate.
01:08:05.080
There is, I mean, it's like the inner sanctum of the ruling elite to some degree.
01:08:11.200
And they did this, you know, surely they didn't do this all on their own or all due to like
01:08:19.500
Surely it was a kind of rationalization or a choice on some level.
01:08:23.400
There was a lot of funding of this by conservative Catholic groups in particular, but I, I think,
01:08:28.280
I wonder if they're trying to solve the demographic, the demographic issue by force in a way, and
01:08:37.500
that this was actually a strong decision coming from on high.
01:08:42.400
It's just a thought, but I, I actually, I think I'm right.
01:08:48.120
I mean, I know it's kind of a conspiracy theory that I can't prove, but I think there, I think
01:08:52.340
it was derived from demographic anxiety almost more than anything.
01:08:56.440
And it's like, we, we've got to crack this nut somehow.
01:09:05.220
Um, the, the only, the, you know, and I definitely have to think about it more, but the only thing
01:09:09.600
is, um, by creating a, you know, outlawing abortion or, or, you know, on a nationwide level
01:09:15.060
overturning Roe versus Wade, um, it, it doesn't stop abortions, right?
01:09:20.440
It only, um, as they say, it only stops like safe abortions, but, um, you know, there, there
01:09:27.100
are a lot of, uh, states now where, um, it, not only is it, uh, you know, stopping people
01:09:32.360
from getting abortions, but, um, a lot of these clinics that provided abortions, not only provided
01:09:36.580
abortions, they provided like, um, uh, they provided healthcare to low income women.
1.00
01:09:41.920
And because abortions are now no longer, um, allowed, a lot of these clinics in these states
01:09:49.460
So you're not just getting people who can't access abortion.
01:09:52.440
You're getting people who are no longer getting pap smears or no longer getting annual checkups,
01:09:59.120
Um, so, uh, yeah, I can't really say, um, what my opinion is on whether, um, whether it,
01:10:05.920
you know, it's, I'm sure some of it is derived from, from, uh, you know, this anxiety around,
01:10:10.700
uh, demographic decline, but, um, but, you know, it's also, it's just creating such a,
01:10:17.280
like, um, worst outcomes in the long run for people.
01:10:20.840
And I, I think people really didn't think about, um, I think about that, right.
01:10:24.880
How many women are low income women are now not getting cancer screened, right?
1.00
01:10:29.540
How many of them are going to discover cancer too late or, um, how many people are, are not
01:10:35.560
getting contraception because they don't have access to contraception.
01:10:38.520
And now they're going to have even worse problems with family planning.
01:10:43.080
So, yeah, no, um, I think Bryce was saying this in, in Chris in the chat about their, the
01:10:51.860
I believe Stalin, I, I remember looking into this at some point, I believe Stalin banned
01:10:57.240
abortion as well, because abortion became legalized early on in the Bolshevik regime.
01:11:01.560
And then, um, Stalin did, um, and there, there are some other cases of in Romania and,
01:11:09.160
Yeah, Romania is a really bad example too, because Romania, they, they, um, they criminalized
01:11:14.180
Um, and then you ended up having these orphanages filled with, um, with children who'd never
01:11:19.860
been touched, who'd never been, who'd never like had, um, like any education, anything
01:11:26.840
And so when, when, um, yeah, when the Soviet union, you know, when communism fell, essentially,
01:11:32.680
um, they discovered all these orphanages with all these children who'd, who'd, um, been
01:11:40.700
Um, uh, you know, all these, um, yeah, it's horrible.
01:11:44.420
All these, all these children in these orphanages that were never taken care of.
01:11:52.620
Um, and just to back up the whole thing, I mean, they, they, the, the, the, the conservatives
01:12:02.380
There have been a people discussed, um, uh, overturning Supreme court decisions, uh, regarding
01:12:12.540
They're, they're also doing some very almost silly things.
01:12:15.620
I I'll have to figure out which state did this, but, um, they, they were defining the,
01:12:25.460
And so you can be charged for murder through abortion or assault.
01:12:30.600
If the abortion fails, or you attempt to get an abortion or something.
01:12:34.400
And then if the, the legal mechanism they're using is if, if the life of the mother was at
01:12:41.340
risk, which is a real thing that that can definitely happen, um, that the, the, the mother can claim
0.91
01:12:52.280
Like that would be the legal, like, it, it just shows how just kind of insane they are.
01:12:57.980
Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I do think this is coming.
01:13:02.360
I, I think a, I mean, I've said this many times, I think a general Christian conservative
01:13:07.340
backlash is coming and it's underway and, uh, and I think, yeah, they might be coming for
01:13:15.140
us, uh, at some point because I, I, I, I'm not endorsing any of this.
01:13:19.340
Uh, but I, I, I also think there's going to be at an almost like brute force way of handling
01:13:24.760
the demographic issue, which I think this is all a part of.
01:13:28.200
Um, yeah, I mean, they're, uh, you know, the, the generally like foster care systems and,
01:13:34.420
you know, um, like state, uh, care systems are not really the greatest.
01:13:39.560
So, um, if they're going to criminalize abortion on a, um, larger scale, uh, you know, uh, unless
01:13:49.280
we want to see like a, a repeat of what happened in Romania, they're going to have to really step
01:13:53.840
up the game when it comes to foster care systems and like state, you know, the state, uh, child