RadixJournal - The Troll Storm

00:00:00.840 Hello, hello, hello.

00:00:03.160 I am here.

00:00:04.220 Hello.

00:00:04.740 Great.

00:00:06.120 How are you doing?

00:00:08.220 I'm doing great.

00:00:09.040 How are you?

00:00:09.840 Good.

00:00:10.380 Yes, I am doing well.

00:00:12.520 Just had to deal with some annoying stuff, but this is the good stuff, so I'll be in

00:00:19.340 a better mood.

00:00:21.660 So you were just live streaming, you said?

00:00:24.440 Yeah, I was just live streaming.

00:00:26.060 Yeah, I usually do in the evening, so.

00:00:28.580 Okay.

00:00:29.020 What were you talking about?

00:00:30.600 I actually was going over your conversation with Destiny, so it was pretty interesting.

00:00:35.200 Oh, good.

00:00:35.680 Okay.

00:00:36.660 Well, let's, we can talk about that a little bit.

00:00:40.140 Let's, I, first, I wanted to have you on, first off, because I thought we've had some

00:00:47.480 good conversations, and so, you know, I wanted to repay the favor and all that kind of stuff.

00:00:54.140 Yeah, I appreciate it.

00:00:55.220 But also, I kind of wanted to learn more about you and where you're coming from, because I

00:01:03.620 think you have a lot of interesting connections to people.

00:01:08.380 You're kind of, I think you're pretty, you're representative also of kind of like a young

00:01:12.900 person who's online.

00:01:14.040 And I guess at this point, being I'm a 44-year-old man, I'm like, oh, young people and your slang.

00:01:20.120 Yeah.

00:01:20.420 What does sus even mean?

00:01:21.860 I don't know.

00:01:23.600 Yes.

00:01:24.040 But, so I wanted to learn a little bit about that.

00:01:28.080 So why don't you just, you know, introduce yourself and kind of tell us just, yeah, tell

00:01:34.920 us a little, you know, as much as you're comfortable with, of course, you know, just a little bit

00:01:39.280 about yourself and what you do and stuff like that.

00:01:41.500 Yeah, sure.

00:01:42.640 So thanks for having me, first off.

00:01:44.880 And so where do I start?

00:01:47.980 I am Stardust, I do content creation online, I'm a streamer, I kind of, I started off streaming

00:01:57.160 like several years ago, and I did like more music kind of stuff, but it didn't really take

00:02:01.840 off.

00:02:02.200 And I took a break for a while, came back and kind of fell into a couple of political conversations,

00:02:09.060 and those ended up taking off for me.

00:02:11.420 And so the streaming thing started to like really work for me, surprisingly, after, after

00:02:17.260 entering a couple of political conversations, getting into a few arguments with people.

00:02:21.900 And so, so I just kind of continued doing that.

00:02:25.480 And like early on, when I first started streaming, I was talking with, with like fundamentalists,

00:02:33.440 like Muslim dudes, and then a weird mix of like, far right people who hated those guys.

00:02:39.320 And those two groups were tied together, but they were like, always fighting with each

00:02:44.000 other, even though they had like more in common, they believed more in common with each other

00:02:48.060 than, than, than they had things that they differed in.

00:02:52.740 And I was like the odd one out with that group, because I was like the liberal, you know, yeah,

00:02:59.580 I was just like the liberal chick with the soy beliefs or whatever.

00:03:03.780 Um, and both of them also, both of those groups were terrible at jokes.

00:03:09.020 They really like, they did not understand when I was making a joke.

00:03:12.300 Um, so I, I hung around that group.

00:03:14.460 I would argue with those people for a while.

00:03:16.020 Then I started kind of getting into the Twitch politics, destiny sphere, uh, Vosch sphere

00:03:21.700 and arguing with people in that space.

00:03:24.400 Um, and, uh, and, and that kind of took off.

00:03:28.380 And then I, I've always been super interested in the like dissident rights sphere as well.

00:03:33.520 So, um, I don't know, like it was something when I was younger, a few years ago, uh, not

00:03:39.820 even, I would say like seven or eight years ago, I would have like looked at like that

00:03:44.600 sphere and been kind of very, um, wary, very, um, very like cautious about getting involved.

00:03:53.600 Um, and I think I've just reached a point in my life where, um, I, my, my curiosity about

00:04:00.440 like the way that people think, the way that these people who think radically different

00:04:04.380 things from me, uh, where it comes from, it just overpowers any cautiousness I would

00:04:09.700 have had previously.

00:04:11.460 Um, so, uh, so yeah.

00:04:12.680 Well, you told me about all these, uh, thought policemen who were contacting you, um, after

00:04:18.340 you had me on a couple of times.

00:04:20.120 Um, yeah, um, funnily, you know, enough is, uh, I, you know, I had you on the first time

00:04:26.620 I, then there was a little bit of an outcry.

00:04:28.720 So I thought, you know what, I'm going to do it again.

00:04:30.600 So, um, uh, so yeah.

00:04:35.000 Um, funny enough, um, you know, same people who had a problem with me having you on don't

00:04:41.520 have a problem with destiny talking to you.

00:04:43.600 Um, which I think, you know, the conversations are not that interesting, not that different,

00:04:48.180 but, um, yeah, uh, so, so I don't know.

00:04:51.840 I've been kind of getting the woke, scolded, uh, treatment from kind of the, like the libs

00:04:58.080 and the leftists online.

00:04:59.180 And even with some of the, the right wingers online who, who, you know, they will police

00:05:04.160 each other and police people that they see and who they talk to.

00:05:07.840 Um, so I, I've been kind of, I've used, I'm used to getting that, but yeah, essentially

00:05:12.520 that's where I am right now.

00:05:13.660 Um, I just make content, um, I make drama and political content and I kind of like to

00:05:18.320 look at these, um, spheres of politics that I myself may not align with, but I find like

00:05:26.060 fascinating.

00:05:27.560 So yeah.

00:05:28.320 What kind of music content were you doing in the beginning?

00:05:31.780 Um, it was, well, I would just do like, um, I would just like play piano and sing songs

00:05:37.180 to people and I'd have people come in and ask me to make a song for them.

00:05:41.020 And then I would like make a song for them and things like that.

00:05:43.480 Um, it was more like comedy kind of stuff.

00:05:45.840 So, um, yeah, I would, I would like, they'd be like, can you write a song about a cat that's

00:05:51.680 addicted to crack cocaine?

00:05:52.840 And I'd be like, all right, yeah, I can do that.

00:05:54.820 So, so I, I'm, I'm beginning to glimpse your childhood.

00:05:58.360 I'm thinking upper middle-class Indian on the East coast and you studied piano.

00:06:04.260 Uh, yeah.

00:06:04.880 Piano and, and, and singing.

00:06:06.420 And yeah, I, I, uh, studied both of those things and, um, yeah, that's pretty accurate.

00:06:12.800 I would say that's pretty accurate.

00:06:14.540 So, yeah, that's cool.

00:06:15.880 So you studied classical piano?

00:06:18.240 Um, when I was, uh, yeah, I, so for the most part, I studied classical piano.

00:06:23.280 Then I got to college.

00:06:24.380 I studied music in college and like everybody has their, uh, like coming out moment in college,

00:06:31.280 right?

00:06:31.520 They, they come out of the closet and for me, it wasn't like, for me, it wasn't like coming

00:06:35.480 out of the closet.

00:06:36.100 It was like, uh, I'm a jazz person now, or I'm a contemporary music person now.

00:06:40.160 So that's, that was kind of like my thing.

00:06:42.320 But, um, my mom had always been pushing me to like, kind of look into more jazz and contemporary

00:06:47.020 music for a while.

00:06:48.400 So went to college, you know, kind of fell into that.

00:06:52.600 And, um, and that's what I studied.

00:06:55.460 So, yeah.

00:06:57.020 All right.

00:06:57.380 That's cool.

00:06:57.880 So do you remember, what was your favorite song that you wrote for someone?

00:07:01.060 Was it the cat on crack?

00:07:03.160 I think that's the most memorable one, but I, I think it's the most memorable one, but

00:07:07.660 I, I, I don't know that I have a favorite cause all of them were pretty basic, you know,

00:07:12.540 it wasn't like, it wasn't, and there was, there were no like masterpieces with that.

00:07:16.280 It was just me streaming to a small audience and making, uh, funny songs for people.

00:07:22.060 So, okay.

00:07:22.600 That's interesting.

00:07:23.520 So you, so, so you, you dove right in with the dissonant right or like far right politics.

00:07:30.900 You're talking to Muslims and far right people and so on.

00:07:34.300 Yeah.

00:07:34.780 So, so about when was that?

00:07:36.500 Was that fairly recently?

00:07:38.100 Like 2019 ish or.

00:07:40.380 I think that may have been like, maybe actually that was like two years ago.

00:07:44.400 So that was, that was after, um, after I'd taken a break from streaming for a bit, but

00:07:49.840 before I fell into the Twitch politics sphere, um, and with like destiny and Vosh and those

00:07:55.180 people, it was, it was a little bit before then.

00:07:57.520 Um, and what that was, was there, you know, um, it was around COVID, um, there were a lot

00:08:04.660 of people who used to debate in person with each other, um, in the UK, but because there

00:08:10.040 was COVID, um, because of COVID, they couldn't meet up in person anymore.

00:08:13.700 So a lot of them took to online spaces and YouTube.

00:08:16.840 And so I just kind of, um, ran into those types of people and ended up arguing with them.

00:08:22.380 Um, and, uh, yeah, I just had a lot of fun with it really.

00:08:27.040 So.

00:08:27.720 Okay.

00:08:28.080 That's interesting.

00:08:29.000 Yeah.

00:08:29.280 It's fun.

00:08:30.760 Go ahead.

00:08:31.780 Uh, I've never been like, uh, growing up, I've always, I've never been a combative person

00:08:36.220 growing up.

00:08:36.780 So, um, uh, so like, I feel like if anything, I've, uh, you know, I've been pretty close to

00:08:44.120 being a doormat for a lot of my life.

00:08:45.760 Um, but, uh, I think, um, I think just like arguing with people online, um,

00:08:52.380 getting combative with people online, learning to like have some good back and forth insulting,

00:08:57.380 uh, has really, um, done a lot for me as a person.

00:09:01.900 So, yeah.

00:09:04.520 Insulting people online has really improved.

00:09:07.620 Yeah.

00:09:08.200 Surprisingly, it sounds really lame actually.

00:09:10.560 No, I, I actually kind of get it.

00:09:11.900 Yeah.

00:09:12.060 You have to stick up for yourself sometimes.

00:09:13.760 Yeah.

00:09:14.380 Um, so when I, when I met destiny for the first time, um, this past week, it was kind of a

00:09:21.400 crazy studio.

00:09:22.660 No, have you ever been there or?

00:09:24.620 Uh, the no jumper studio.

00:09:26.040 I haven't been there.

00:09:26.900 Yeah.

00:09:27.200 Okay.

00:09:27.560 It was kind of, I, I noticed the degree to which I've been, I guess, I don't know, de-urbanized

00:09:35.560 or, or something.

00:09:36.380 Cause I, I have lived in these urban environments, but it was pretty wild.

00:09:39.820 It was like 20 people in this big room.

00:09:42.360 There are all these like computers everywhere.

00:09:44.360 Everyone is like heavily tattooed.

00:09:46.400 Um, and, uh, the whole thing just smells like marijuana.

00:09:51.340 Well, yeah, it's not even, that's not even destiny's place, right?

00:09:55.400 That's like the no jumper people.

00:09:56.980 Yeah.

00:09:57.340 So yeah, really interesting.

00:09:59.820 Yeah.

00:10:00.160 But I, I met destiny there.

00:10:02.000 He was a nice guy, but when we first were just sitting in the green room, he was a bit

00:10:06.400 standoffish.

00:10:08.240 Um, just didn't want to talk.

00:10:09.580 And then after we had had this conversation, he, he actually was, um, you know, I, you

00:10:14.340 know, he opened up.

00:10:15.140 Yeah.

00:10:15.260 I think he just needed a little, uh, to get a little comfortable with me.

00:10:18.080 I don't, I don't know if he thought that I was going to come in carrying a Tiki torch

00:10:22.040 or, or who knows.

00:10:23.600 Uh, but, uh, but yeah, I, I, I liked him and I, I actually mentioned to him, I was like,

00:10:28.760 you know, if there is, there are a few streamers that I will listen to and, and that have,

00:10:35.840 you know, kind of affected me to some degree, or at least, at least I respect their argumentation.

00:10:42.860 They're just like willingness to go down logical roads.

00:10:45.120 And I was like, I, I hesitate to tell you because, um, it might surprise you or anger

00:10:50.960 you.

00:10:51.220 And I, and then he was like, oh, it's Vouch, isn't it?

00:10:53.540 I was like, yeah.

00:10:55.620 Um, but he created Vouch.

00:10:57.880 Yeah, he did.

00:10:59.320 Yeah.

00:10:59.800 And then kind of created a Frankenstein's monster of sorts.

00:11:03.660 Because they, I, I could imagine listening.

00:11:06.980 I mean, one of the things that I almost like about Vouch is that he's a bit, he's bombastic

00:11:11.740 and he like wants to literally throw Republicans into re-education camps and, and, you know,

00:11:18.440 kind of like, and my also impression of destiny is he's not like that.

00:11:23.760 Uh, no, he's much more like middle of the road, willing to bridge gaps, things like that.

00:11:28.420 He's not like a, an alarmist or, uh, you know, the same way that, that Vouch is.

00:11:33.300 Vouch is very much an alarmist.

00:11:35.240 Yeah.

00:11:35.700 Yeah, definitely.

00:11:37.040 Um, but so do you, you know, this is one thing that we've talked about, uh, you know,

00:11:42.940 in other contexts, but you know, things like Hollywood are declining rapidly and they don't

00:11:51.140 have the cultural purchase or like purchase on people's minds and imagination like they used to.

00:11:57.060 And I think it's people like yourself.

00:12:00.680 I mean, how, how old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

00:12:03.160 I'm 31 actually.

00:12:04.700 So I'm not that young, so.

00:12:06.480 Well, yeah, but, but still, um, I mean, yeah, you are a little bit old because there are a lot

00:12:10.760 of people who are on this stuff all day who were 17 or something.

00:12:13.800 Um, but I guess, I guess my point is that like a lot of the, like the headspace has shifted

00:12:21.240 over and there's this whole world of live stream and live streaming, creating original

00:12:28.660 content, talking with each other, kind of getting to these arguments over politics, et cetera,

00:12:33.860 that, that I think for like Gen Z and younger millennials, it's, it's kind of like, it's replaced

00:12:42.140 what the culture that I would have in growing up in the eighties and nineties, where it would

00:12:48.820 be, you know, uh, we'd be watching action movies, you know, for entertainment, we'd be reading

00:12:56.000 magazines and books and all the stuff that's, that's totally gone by the wayside.

00:13:01.360 Um, but I, I think there's just this like whole sphere that, you know, if, if anything,

00:13:07.700 it's not even that like COVID damaged Hollywood or, or, um, or it's too much money to go to

00:13:13.820 the theater.

00:13:14.200 It's like, there's, there's something that's replaced that.

00:13:17.320 And, um, it's something that's very different than, um, you know, it's very different than

00:13:24.060 the kind of top down produced content of, uh, yesteryear.

00:13:29.460 Yeah, definitely.

00:13:30.540 And it's more personalized too, I think.

00:13:32.860 Yeah.

00:13:33.820 Yeah, definitely.

00:13:34.400 And there's a lot of it that is almost like sludge in a way, like there's people will

00:13:40.340 just go on five hour live streams and just talk to one.

00:13:46.760 Like it's, you know, whenever I do things, I liked that, you know, it's like, there's

00:13:51.240 an interview or there's a topic.

00:13:52.900 Um, although granted in this, in this group, particularly as we get into like the second

00:13:57.440 and third hour of these conversations, we'll go all over the place.

00:14:00.840 And, but it's still pretty philosophical.

00:14:03.460 Like, I, I think in terms of, uh, you know, I want to say something, I want to get into

00:14:08.540 this debate.

00:14:09.080 I, I want to discuss this topic, et cetera, but there, there's almost like a, um, life

00:14:15.340 streaming or like, like, like being as opposed to arguing quality to it.

00:14:21.920 I mean, for better and for worse, because some of it, I look at it and I'm like, how could

00:14:25.080 anyone possibly watch this path of nonsense?

00:14:29.340 Yeah.

00:14:30.300 Well, I mean, I think of it, um, I actually think of live streaming similar to reality

00:14:35.140 TV.

00:14:36.220 Um, yeah, I think, um, I think that like things like Twitch TV or YouTube live streamers are

00:14:44.040 just kind of like, um, real housewives, but for men, um, like women were kind of watching

00:14:49.760 real housewives, watching like reality TV for a while.

00:14:52.320 Um, they'll have it in the background while they're doing, they're working out or they're,

00:14:56.180 they're doing something.

00:14:56.960 And I think that's kind of what, um, live streaming has become to a lot of people.

00:15:01.420 Um, so a lot of the most successful live streamers are people who are really good.

00:15:07.960 I think in that kind of reality TV-esque way.

00:15:11.960 Um, but, uh, yeah, it's, it is very vapid.

00:15:15.480 Like you said, um, that's, that's unfortunately the side effect of reality TV.

00:15:20.520 And then eventually, you know, sometimes you'll get people like destiny or Vosch who

00:15:23.880 are a little bit less reality TV, a little bit more substantive, but, um, but you know,

00:15:30.420 it's still, it still is what it is, right.

00:15:33.280 It still is, um, reality TV in a, in a way.

00:15:36.860 Yeah.

00:15:37.560 And I've noticed just two other things, um, where I, I do think that, and this is the

00:15:43.660 good aspect of it.

00:15:44.920 And, and the second one is maybe bad, but maybe it kind of interesting.

00:15:48.700 So the first one is that I, I think a lot of young people wanted to get into these arguments.

00:15:53.940 Like they wanted to have these discussions and these kinds of things aren't being fulfilled

00:15:59.620 by cable television or mainstream.

00:16:03.960 Like they, they actually wanted to get into some like deep argument about politics or society

00:16:09.860 or like what it means to be transgendered or like the Bible, they, they really, they really

00:16:15.340 wanted to get into those discussions, like a deep dive.

00:16:18.720 And it's just not being fulfilled at all by the entertainment industry.

00:16:23.680 And I think that's a good thing.

00:16:25.860 Yeah.

00:16:26.140 Yeah.

00:16:26.460 I think that's true.

00:16:27.160 I think, um, especially when I see a lot of the debates, not even around politics, but

00:16:32.300 around like dating culture, um, uh, the, the stuff around dating culture, around red,

00:16:37.060 red pill and incel culture, that stuff is really, um, like it's taking off.

00:16:42.760 Um, and I think it's taking off for a good reason because we see the rules of dating changing

00:16:48.880 rapidly.

00:16:49.340 We see what's acceptable and what's unacceptable in dating, uh, changing rapidly.

00:16:54.060 And, um, and people are confused and people are afraid of miss, you know, making missteps

00:17:00.200 and, and people don't know, um, how serious a misstep is when they make a misstep.

00:17:04.920 So yeah, these, um, debates are super important, um, because, you know, things are just changing

00:17:10.880 so rapidly.

00:17:11.620 So, yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:17:13.580 The, I think the other thing is that I've noticed is that with younger people, younger

00:17:20.240 millennials, and definitely Gen Z is this extreme polarization.

00:17:26.540 It's like polarization beyond polarization, um, where, I mean, I'll occasionally see like,

00:17:33.080 like there's a new K I don't even know if it's a cable, no one's watching it, but some

00:17:37.680 new thing called like news nation or something where they've taken all of the retreads from

00:17:42.340 like, from like recent memory, like Chris Cuomo or whatever.

00:17:46.380 And they're, they're doing like a unbiased, you know, news thing.

00:17:50.300 And I, I saw this thing on my YouTube feed of, of Chris Cuomo and, um, uh, Bill O'Reilly

00:17:58.260 like people canceled left and right people.

00:18:01.780 And they were having these covers and they were like, you know, we, we as Americans, we

00:18:05.040 need to bridge these divides and, you know, get together.

00:18:07.060 But what I've also noticed the trend on for, for younger people and particularly on these

00:18:13.060 forums, it's not like I'm a Democrat, you're a Republican, but we will, we'll try to get

00:18:19.380 along it's, I am a communist and then I am a fascist as someone like, well, like, you

00:18:26.880 know, openly, uh, identify in these ways.

00:18:30.240 And so there's also among young people, there's like this polarization that I don't even think

00:18:35.540 their parents could even imagine actually, but that this is actually the norm that this

00:18:40.820 is my impression.

00:18:41.700 You can certainly correct me, but like, is there right outside of destiny who kind of is a

00:18:46.560 centrist liberal slash Republicans, whatever that I think that's fair, but he still goes

00:18:52.460 there.

00:18:52.740 He's talking to Nick Flint as he talked to me, he'll talk to people about, you know, he

00:18:57.480 made some distinction on pedophiles.

00:18:59.520 I think that got him in trouble, you know, recently that, that no one would ever touch

00:19:03.520 who's over the age of 40.

00:19:05.180 Um, although we can go into that cause I'm, I'm willing to go there, but, but this like

00:19:10.000 young people, the extreme, the, the extremity to which they've been polarized, I don't think

00:19:15.480 has is, is like understood.

00:19:17.180 Like there are a ton of young men out there who just outright say, I am a Nazi in fact.

00:19:24.100 And at the same time on like left, you know, live streaming or discord or whatever, it's

00:19:30.660 like, I am a communist.

00:19:31.980 Like I am a Stalinist, like I am a Maoist, like it's, and this is almost like the norm

00:19:39.240 now.

00:19:40.300 Yeah, I agree with you.

00:19:41.560 Um, I think it's really interesting to look at the polarization in some of these spheres

00:19:45.780 because it's not even, um, like you said, it's not like I'm a Republican and I'm a Democrat

00:19:50.060 and we can't talk to each other.

00:19:51.360 It's you're, um, you're a Marxist Leninist and I'm a socialist and there is nothing that

00:19:59.520 we can, uh, even like align on.

00:20:02.760 Right.

00:20:02.940 And, and, and like, you'll see these two people who, who have more in common than they have

00:20:07.920 in difference.

00:20:08.820 And they, because of these small differences, they are like the worst enemies on earth.

00:20:13.960 You can see it in the, in the far right, like dissident rights spheres too.

00:20:17.500 Um, uh, you know, the, the fracturing of, um, Christian nationalists and, and, um, AF

00:20:24.920 recently, right.

00:20:26.060 Like, uh, like America first and Christian nationalists were like kind of on the same

00:20:30.240 page for a while.

00:20:31.060 And then there was, um, something happened.

00:20:33.140 I don't know what exactly happened, but, um, now they, now they're like enemies, um, and

00:20:38.600 they have more in common with each other than, um, well, it seems like Nick is now a Christian 0.92

00:20:43.400 nationalist, isn't he?

00:20:44.480 I mean, that, that all the, I guess, yeah, I mean, he, well, the Christian, there's like

00:20:49.620 the Christian nationalists that won't associate with AF.

00:20:52.340 Um, they used to, they used to be associated, they used to like be friendly with Nick because

00:20:57.680 they had similar views, but, um, there was like a, there's a Christian nationalist kind

00:21:02.660 of like sect that kind of fractured and won't associate themselves with AF and kind of view

00:21:07.380 AF as kind of like a, um, circus, you know?

00:21:13.400 Um, I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but, um, uh, but that's kind of how they view

00:21:18.060 it.

00:21:18.280 And so, um, so you see like these groups who otherwise have so much in common with each

00:21:24.580 other that, um, because they, they have disagreements or they have like personal issues, they can't

00:21:30.120 talk to each other.

00:21:30.820 Like all conversation is dead.

00:21:33.060 Um, and they are better at talking to people across the aisle than to people who are like

00:21:38.380 right next to them.

00:21:39.220 It's very, very, well, I think, I think it's, I think there are kind of two things going

00:21:43.080 on.

00:21:43.480 I mean, first off, there's the narcissism of small differences, which is, I think is

00:21:48.380 the phrase of just, you know, obsessing about some doctrinal thing.

00:21:52.220 There, there was another, uh, maxim that I think Henry Kissinger said, but maybe someone

00:21:57.780 else did.

00:21:58.240 And it was basically like when the stakes are so low, the nastiness is so high.

00:22:03.520 He probably articulated it better, but what he means is like, you know, Nixon can go visit

00:22:08.900 Mao, um, and, and, and, you know, they have nuclear weapons pointed at one another.

00:22:14.620 And so they almost have to be very cordial and, you know, Oh, we have so much in common

00:22:18.880 here.

00:22:19.180 We love each other.

00:22:19.820 You know, we love China.

00:22:20.880 We love America.

00:22:21.980 And, um, but then when you're on campus and there's in a way nothing at stake, you become

00:22:27.960 just excessively nasty towards the person who's right next to you to kind of prove yourself.

00:22:34.400 Um, but I think there's also something going on, which is that the level of extremism among

00:22:42.180 young people who are online, I think you could like, maybe at best, it's almost like, you

00:22:49.440 know, just kids having fun or it's meaningless narcissism, a small distance, uh, small differences,

00:22:54.060 but maybe at worst, it kind of says something a lot bigger and, and a lot darker in the sense

00:23:00.980 that like, they're totally disconnected from the mainstream.

00:23:07.160 Like they don't have anything invested in the mainstream.

00:23:09.460 And so they're just like, what, you want to talk to me about the welfare state? 1.00

00:23:12.840 Fuck you. 1.00

00:23:13.420 I'm a Stalinist, you know, or like, you want to talk to me about the GOP? 1.00

00:23:17.740 Fuck you. 1.00

00:23:18.320 I'm a Nazi. 1.00

00:23:19.280 You know, it's, it's like, and maybe it is kind of meaningless on some level, but, but,

00:23:23.500 but on another level is actually very meaningful.

00:23:25.540 Like there's this, this online extremist communities or the incels or whatever.

00:23:33.120 And, and I think maybe it's being like under, it's certainly being underserved by the mainstream,

00:23:37.640 but it's also being like, uh, un, unappreciated.

00:23:42.220 Like they don't, they don't quite recognize how serious this is.

00:23:46.640 Yeah.

00:23:47.140 So Henry Kissinger said this, Eric said, the reason that university politics is so vicious

00:23:51.100 is because the stakes are so small.

00:23:52.880 Yeah.

00:23:53.520 Basically what it, yeah.

00:23:54.440 Yeah.

00:23:55.120 But, um, but go ahead.

00:23:57.060 Yeah.

00:23:57.500 Oh, sorry.

00:23:58.020 I was just going to say, um, like, you can see again with like AF and, and like the, um,

00:24:03.060 the Christian nationalists who won't associate with AF, they swat each other all the time.

00:24:06.960 They, they will, they will like, they, uh, like it's insane.

00:24:10.740 Um, they will swat each other.

00:24:12.420 They'll like dox each other. 0.86

00:24:14.000 Um, and then same thing with people on the left, you'll see like, um, uh, super far left

00:24:19.240 people who will target other leftists and dox them, um, and put all their information

00:24:23.940 out there.

00:24:24.440 Um, and, uh, it's like, it's really interesting.

00:24:28.600 And I think you actually touched on something that I think, um, is a really interesting dichotomy

00:24:34.620 when you're talking with destiny.

00:24:35.940 Um, you both were talking about how there's, um, there's kind of like, uh, with globalization,

00:24:43.480 you see like certain things in our culture that are like widespread.

00:24:47.680 Um, and so you see kind of like a more, um, a more homogenous, like global culture, right?

00:24:54.960 Like you'll see certain things that are in common, um, among people all across the globe

00:25:00.160 that people like, or people appreciate.

00:25:01.860 Um, and so you kind of get like a, a more, um, globalized community, um, and you've got

00:25:10.560 a more generic, like kind of, um, experience, but at the same time with the advent of technology,

00:25:17.100 we've got like a hyper individualized, um, experience online, um, where like TikTok is, um,

00:25:24.500 is feeding us things based on the algorithm, um, and things that are unique to us.

00:25:29.760 Um, and, uh, and technology is catered to the way that you're, you know, your likes and

00:25:35.240 your brain and, um, and knows your likes before you even know your likes.

00:25:39.260 Um, and so I think that's a really interesting dichotomy as well.

00:25:43.240 Yeah, definitely.

00:25:44.780 Uh, yeah.

00:25:45.960 I mean, the, the ability of that, of the algorithm to kind of understand what you want better than

00:25:53.380 you do, like, you're not even subscribing to anything.

00:25:55.980 It's just kind of feeding you and learning and maybe even seeing how long you stay on

00:26:01.620 something like you might not even for, for whatever reason you kind of stay on some, uh,

00:26:07.560 you know, uh, whatever they're called, TikToks for longer.

00:26:10.620 And it's like, Oh, he actually likes that.

00:26:12.160 Let's give him more of that.

00:26:13.080 Let's it's, it's diabolical.

00:26:16.660 Yeah.

00:26:17.340 Um, I just got rid of TikTok. 1.00

00:26:19.900 I was like, I hate this fucking thing. 1.00

00:26:21.700 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:22.100 I, I guess that, I guess where I was trying to go with that is that, um, you know, like

00:26:26.000 a lot of these people online are, are looking for this to be individuals.

00:26:30.700 Like we're all very, you know, we're individualistic people.

00:26:34.500 Um, and some of it may be that people are falling into these fringe ideologies because

00:26:39.880 they are looking for a way to be unique.

00:26:44.160 Um, just like, you know, similar to like how many, um, kids are identifying as like, um, LGBTQ,

00:26:51.860 Q today.

00:26:52.420 Right.

00:26:53.100 Um, but, uh, it may be something like that.

00:26:56.680 Um, and it may just be, um, the natural result of like the, this natural result of, um, people

00:27:05.660 feeling less, uh, feeling like they have less individualized content on a, on a broader scale.

00:27:12.060 So they find it online and like a more fractured, um, internet community, I suppose, if that

00:27:18.480 makes any sense, I don't know if it's making sense.

00:27:20.660 Oh yeah, definitely.

00:27:21.740 Definitely.

00:27:22.520 Well, I mean, I think we're, we're questing, we're questing online for like self-understanding.

00:27:30.860 And I, and I think there's, there's been a lot of, uh, huge issues with that.

00:27:34.860 Like at these, these notions of like, I'm demisexual or something, which is just basically

00:27:41.440 like you are monogamous or, or, or whatever you want a boyfriend badly.

00:27:45.380 Um, there didn't have to be a kind of word for them or an almost a pathology for it previously.

00:27:51.980 And we've, we've now, we're now kind of like questing for all of these ways of making ourselves

00:28:00.480 special or, or self-expression or, you know, individuality, uh, online.

00:28:05.420 And, and I think that can obviously lead to some very bad, uh, consequences.

00:28:11.340 Yeah, I think so.

00:28:12.240 I think, you know, and people look for, like, we used to have goths and punks and preps and

00:28:18.180 things like that.

00:28:18.920 And, um, I don't know if we still have that.

00:28:21.360 I'm a little bit disconnected from like high schoolers and what the, what they're up to,

00:28:24.960 but, um, but I, I kind of can see, you know, some of it is, some of it is honest, obviously

00:28:32.580 some of these people are honest in what they believe in, but there also probably isn't in

00:28:36.620 there, there probably is also a, um, aspect of like identity that, that plays into this

00:28:43.020 as well.

00:28:43.500 Yeah.

00:28:44.160 Yeah, definitely.

00:28:45.660 We're questing for identity online.

00:28:47.680 I mean, I, I think that's what all of these people are doing.

00:28:49.700 And that also kind of explains the, you know, I'm a communist, I'm a Marxist Leninist or,

00:28:55.300 or whatever, when, you know, are you, I mean, it's, it's, it's, but there, there's almost

00:29:00.820 this like need for self-definition, um, that, uh, that people have.

00:29:06.400 So, okay, let me talk about some things that are a little more, um, uh, I don't know, salacious

00:29:13.300 or scandalous.

00:29:14.300 So what happened with you and the Groypers? 0.96

00:29:17.580 Cause I, I remember Mark, I was talking with Mark Brauman beforehand and he was like, you

00:29:21.600 should, you should learn about like, uh, what is it like experiencing this kind of thing?

00:29:26.640 Cause you got banned, your channel got banned actually at one point.

00:29:29.880 I remember.

00:29:30.420 Yeah.

00:29:31.160 So I don't, uh, Oh boy.

00:29:33.500 I mean, I'm still on, on, I'm still on, on decent terms with them, with the Groypers, 0.82

00:29:37.780 but, um, I have a really weird, like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I have like a

00:29:44.340 really weird ability to just be on like decent terms with most people, I think.

00:29:48.260 Um, so, uh, so essentially I was interviewing Ethan Ralph and he brought his wife on and 0.99

00:29:57.320 I asked a really stupid question. 0.90

00:30:00.460 Um, so, uh, so I don't know. 0.99

00:30:03.260 I, I have a, a kind of a habit of asking uncomfortable questions.

00:30:07.540 I don't really like, I just kind of, especially if I don't get the chance to write them out

00:30:11.700 beforehand, then they become really uncomfortable.

00:30:13.880 Um, and, and he kind of sprung this on me last minute that his wife was going to be joining

00:30:19.360 him and that he wanted me to interview his wife.

00:30:21.720 So, um, I don't know what went through my mind, but I just asked him, um, you know,

00:30:29.160 have, have, has she, or I didn't ask him.

00:30:31.760 I asked her, I asked Ethan Ralph's wife, have you seen his tape?

00:30:35.020 And, um, for anybody who's not familiar with that, um, there is a sex tape that is out there

00:30:42.600 on the internet of Ethan Ralph with somebody else.

00:30:45.880 Um, and yeah, so I, I asked him, I asked her that and Ethan was already mad at me because

00:30:52.600 I asked him about Nick Ricada earlier and apparently him and Nick Ricada don't have a good relationship.

00:30:57.220 I wasn't even aware of this.

00:30:59.020 Um, so, so he was already mad at me and I asked him about that and it kind of set him

00:31:04.480 off.

00:31:04.780 And the rest of the interview went downhill very quickly.

00:31:08.340 He was yelling me, yelling at me, sorry.

00:31:11.080 Uh, he was yelling at me.

00:31:12.440 He was asking, uh, I don't know if you've seen the clip.

00:31:15.260 There's a clip, uh, that went around where he's just, uh, screaming at me.

00:31:20.120 Um, how many people have you spread your, you know, excuse my language, but how many people 0.99

00:31:25.700 you spread your pussy for online and all that. 1.00

00:31:27.860 Right. 1.00

00:31:28.280 And he's just, he's just yelling at me like that.

00:31:30.720 Um, and so, you know, I'm trying to do the thing that I usually do where I try to like

00:31:36.100 wrangle the person who's really upset, um, and just be calm with them and kind of like,

00:31:41.580 you know, get them to calm down.

00:31:43.400 Um, but, uh, by that point, his audience was already super mad at me.

00:31:48.420 Now, I don't know if it was him who directed his audience to report me, but I know it was

00:31:52.920 somebody in his audience who mass reported me on YouTube, got my YouTube taken down.

00:31:58.260 Um, uh, and I, I know this because there's a specific website that, um, people in his

00:32:04.980 audience will go to when they think they're coordinate, when, when they're coordinating,

00:32:09.620 um, like a takedown of somebody.

00:32:11.820 Um, and so I looked at that website and, um, and my stuff was on there and they, you know,

00:32:18.080 they had a bunch of stuff that they thought they knew about me on there.

00:32:20.840 And, um, and so it was very clear.

00:32:23.480 It looked like, you know, immediately this, this happens like just a day or two after

00:32:28.080 that, um, falling out with Ethan and, uh, you know, the, the timing is very suspicious.

00:32:35.980 Um, and there, and there's this one like super fan of Ethan who's saying like, I should have

00:32:40.940 gone farther with it.

00:32:42.060 And, you know, I don't know what that means, but, um, essentially like there was enough

00:32:46.460 evidence for me to think, okay, this is at the very least somebody in his audience got

00:32:50.180 really mad at me and coordinated mass flagging and got my YouTube taken down.

00:32:54.840 Um, so.

00:32:57.100 After that, I mean, everybody kind of knows that there's a history of this with that

00:33:00.900 community, with his community.

00:33:02.580 Um, so I got retweeted by a bunch of different larger YouTube creators, um, a bunch of people

00:33:08.400 who, who know that there's a history with this, who know, you know, and so luckily after

00:33:13.780 a few days, my YouTube got reinstated, but it was very scary for me.

00:33:17.900 Um, so yeah, they're like, who would have known that the mass flagging that would occur

00:33:24.460 to me would happen, would come from the right.

00:33:26.480 Right.

00:33:26.800 But yeah.

00:33:27.760 So.

00:33:28.240 Well, yeah, no, that's my entire experience actually, particularly of late, like for all

00:33:35.180 the liberals who posted a punch, a Nazi meme or something like there's been a million right 0.75

00:33:41.520 wingers who have just kind of fucked around with me or they, they immediately, I've noticed 1.00

00:33:47.100 this as well. 0.99

00:33:47.640 Like.

00:33:48.120 I'll, I'll put out a tweet that might even be entirely innocuous.

00:33:52.260 And within a second, there's like a reply.

00:33:55.940 And I do think that these are, uh, I don't know, bop behavior coordinated within a second.

00:34:01.720 There's like an immediate response that has nothing to do with what I just said.

00:34:06.300 That's attacking me on some kind of personal way or like posting an unflattering photo or,

00:34:12.660 or, or, or just doing some, you know, um, you just, yeah.

00:34:17.180 You know, you just, you just, you're, you want your ex-wife back and that's why you're,

00:34:22.120 you hate Russia.

00:34:22.960 Just some like real weird kind of.

00:34:24.960 Um, and, but again, it happens almost immediately.

00:34:28.460 Like there's a notification set on these things.

00:34:32.180 I don't know.

00:34:33.180 Um, yeah.

00:34:34.720 Like it's so, it's pretty, uh, as Eddie grace, it is just totally incoherent messages.

00:34:39.380 Um, but, uh, yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all. 0.96

00:34:43.600 And it is just totally ridiculous and nasty. 0.86

00:34:45.960 I mean, you know, the question is within bounds, even if it's a bit on the line, but 0.99

00:34:52.660 like, why are you trying to destroy someone?

00:34:55.080 Yeah.

00:34:55.500 Yeah.

00:34:55.800 It was, it was out of line.

00:34:56.900 It was definitely, um, you know, it was definitely kind of, uh, you know, it wasn't an inappropriate

00:35:00.880 question for sure, but he's somebody who's talked about it himself, right?

00:35:05.720 He's talked about his tape himself.

00:35:07.140 It, um, apparently there was a video that surfaced of his wife, uh, before they were

00:35:12.040 married, also talking about the tape.

00:35:14.180 Um, so it's not like the tape is a secret.

00:35:17.220 He's talked about it publicly.

00:35:18.780 Um, everybody knows about it and it may have been inappropriate for me to ask, but I asked

00:35:24.160 it, uh, do I deserve to have my YouTube channel?

00:35:26.640 Like absolutely deleted because of it.

00:35:29.260 I'm, I would, I would say probably not, but you know, of course not.

00:35:33.040 Yeah, no, of course not.

00:35:34.180 Yeah, but there's just a fanatical horde of these people and they act in a coordinated

00:35:38.720 fashion.

00:35:39.240 And it's, it's a kind of like mind that they all jump on.

00:35:43.340 I think that's an, another kind of fascinating aspect of, you know, social media, uh, represents

00:35:49.580 human behavior.

00:35:50.740 You know, it's not, it's not actually something new.

00:35:53.960 We've seen this before, but, but it, it happens more kind of immediately. 0.99

00:35:57.000 And maybe even in a nastier fashion where people get mad at Tim pool, you know, fuck 0.99

00:36:03.080 Tim pool. 0.97

00:36:03.660 Obviously I'm not defending him, but like people get mad at Tim pool.

00:36:06.560 They're sending SWAT teams to his house.

00:36:08.800 I mean, this is just totally bizarre.

00:36:11.640 Very bizarre.

00:36:12.800 Yeah.

00:36:13.060 Yeah.

00:36:13.400 Um, so anyway, I mean, this was another, so what was, what was destiny's you were on

00:36:22.320 this live stream?

00:36:23.040 I saw a clip of it where they were discussing, um, I, I don't even know the top, but I think

00:36:29.800 you and Lauren Southern and destiny and a few other people were on one of these things.

00:36:34.080 And there was like, he said something to the effect just because you abuse children, excuse 0.86

00:36:41.060 me, doesn't mean you're a pedophile.

00:36:43.500 And then this of course creates all this rage.

00:36:46.800 What exactly happened?

00:36:49.060 You know, I actually tend to agree with destiny.

00:36:51.760 Yeah.

00:36:52.300 I've been on a few, um, streams with him.

00:36:54.940 So I don't know exactly this, this one that you're talking about, but, um, but if I were

00:37:00.440 to be charitable, um, I think, uh, you know, there are statistics that show that most people

00:37:07.420 who abuse children are not pedophiles.

00:37:10.840 I think there are statistics to show that.

00:37:12.340 Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:37:13.460 Yeah.

00:37:13.780 Yes.

00:37:14.080 Yeah.

00:37:14.560 Um, and, um, I, it may have been during the time when he was talking to Mr. Girl when Mr.

00:37:20.180 Girl was, you know, kind of popping up and becoming his own thing.

00:37:24.220 Um, I don't know if you know, Mr.

00:37:25.980 Who is, yeah, he interviewed me one time.

00:37:27.840 Who is that guy?

00:37:29.080 He is.

00:37:29.540 He just seems almost like, I mean, I, I did an interview one time and I, I, I did it on actually

00:37:37.540 Ethan Ralph's channel and I thought I handled myself fine, but I, I get a kind of icky feeling

00:37:44.420 with that guy.

00:37:44.980 Like he's acting in bad faith.

00:37:46.680 Like he's trying to do, I don't know that I just.

00:37:50.880 Yeah.

00:37:51.740 So, um, he is this guy who got really famous on YouTube for making a video called, like

00:37:59.440 he, it was a cuties review, essentially review the movie cuties.

00:38:02.880 And, um, in it he is, um, and now my suspicion is that he was, he was like joking.

00:38:09.760 It was like an inside joke with this audience.

00:38:11.620 Um, but he basically saying like, oh yeah, if you're worried about kids looking hot in

00:38:16.140 that, like, um, you know, uh, uh, they succeeded or whatever like that, he, he, something like

00:38:22.420 that.

00:38:22.560 And he's basically saying that he thinks that these girls are hot in the, in the, in the

00:38:26.700 film cuties.

00:38:27.980 Um, now what my suspicion is, is that it was like a joke to his audience that kind of blew

00:38:33.300 up because it was so controversial and he, because it blew up, he kind of doubled down

00:38:38.680 on it.

00:38:39.080 Um, I don't, uh, that's just, that's just what I, I, my assumptions are, um, what Bryce

00:38:47.120 is saying is, is true as well, that he got, um, I think he got arrested for saying that

00:38:52.360 he understood why, um, back in college, he got arrested for saying he understood why,

00:38:57.700 uh, somebody would like shoot up a school or something like that.

00:39:01.140 Um, yeah.

00:39:02.000 So he is, he is kind of a provocateur.

00:39:04.260 He's, he's got a long history of it, 15 years of being a provocateur, writing articles

00:39:09.060 that are, that, you know, that are, um, uh, what's a good word for it?

00:39:16.480 Uh, just writing articles that are, are very, um, outrage provoking, um, making videos that

00:39:24.000 are outrage provoking.

00:39:25.020 Um, and I think, you know, the, I think he likes to get a reaction out of people.

00:39:32.700 Um, and I think that's kind of like, I used to be friendly with a guy, but, um, we fell

00:39:38.080 out, um, because of a converse debate we had actually, um, uh, about consent.

00:39:46.040 And I felt like he was just messing with me, trying to get, get a reaction out of me the

00:39:49.820 entire time.

00:39:50.480 So that's kind of like the person he is.

00:39:52.400 Yeah.

00:39:53.120 Yeah.

00:39:54.040 Yeah.

00:39:54.320 I don't even know how to describe the, the personality, but it's just very, very creepy.

00:39:59.040 And he, he is, he just is clearly, I don't think he even understands what good faith is.

00:40:03.680 Like it's just, it's all, anything he says is about getting a reaction out of someone.

00:40:09.580 Yeah.

00:40:10.080 And he has to control the conversation.

00:40:12.220 Yeah.

00:40:12.620 The entirety of it.

00:40:13.580 Yeah.

00:40:14.340 Yeah.

00:40:15.260 Um, there's some kind of probably personality disorder that this is coming from, but it's

00:40:20.860 just, yeah, it's, it's a very, uh, a very creepy thing.

00:40:23.940 But so what was, what was going on with destiny or you seem to not remember something.

00:40:27.720 I don't want to make too much of it.

00:40:29.240 Yeah.

00:40:29.760 I guess my point was that you actually can't have difficult, difficult though, important

00:40:36.920 conversations with a lot of these people, just because of the kind of extremism and gut

00:40:42.200 reaction that they have to these subjects.

00:40:45.080 Yeah.

00:40:45.620 I think if I think if I'm thinking what it is, it could have been this, um, podcast where

00:40:50.100 there is Lauren Southern, there are a bunch of other ladies on it. 1.00

00:40:52.860 And, um, destiny came on, um, and they asked him, um, they were talking about like, should 0.98

00:40:59.880 you immediately want to kill all pedophiles or something like that? 0.99

00:41:02.900 Right. 0.99

00:41:03.180 Um, and I believe destiny's destiny's argument was that, well, there are going to be people

00:41:09.560 who haven't acted on it.

00:41:11.540 We should want people who haven't acted on it, who recognize a problem, uh, to get therapy

00:41:16.600 rather than just immediately like imprison them.

00:41:19.400 Um, right.

00:41:20.240 And so I think, I think that's what the argument was.

00:41:23.680 Um, and I think that they were making a kind of, a kind of right-wing virtue signaling argument, 0.99

00:41:28.640 which is that we actually want to kill all pedophiles and yeah. 0.99

00:41:33.460 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:33.600 I mean, that's, it's also left-wing thing. 0.96

00:41:35.500 It's like the, the ultimate virtue signal for everybody is like, oh, pedophiles, I hate 0.99

00:41:40.280 them. 1.00

00:41:40.500 I want to kill them. 1.00

00:41:41.340 Right. 1.00

00:41:41.840 So, yeah.

00:41:43.920 Yeah.

00:41:44.680 Um, so I think his argument was just that, you know, we shouldn't want to kill all of

00:41:50.600 them because, um, uh, probably a lot of them don't want to offend.

00:41:55.000 Probably a lot of them want to, uh, you know, uh, seek out therapy.

00:41:59.440 And when you look at the statistics actually of like who abuses children, um, the people

00:42:04.860 who, who abuse children tend, you know, most of them are not pedophiles.

00:42:08.860 They just, they're just opportunistically acting.

00:42:12.180 Um, well, yeah, well, it might, I mean, maybe opportunistic is not maybe the right word,

00:42:17.580 but, um, but yeah, I had this conversation actually with someone who's, who's on this,

00:42:22.360 um, chat and it's, it, it, it's, um, or on this call rather, but it's very, it's a very

00:42:29.580 difficult subject, but it's very dark.

00:42:31.620 Um, and we have a, we have an image of a pedophile as the creepy monster who hangs around playgrounds

00:42:40.520 and, you know, that kind of thing.

00:42:42.420 And, and to some degree that stereotype holds for some people.

00:42:46.700 Um, but in terms of child abuse itself, a lot of it is, is happening in the home and

00:42:55.420 it's happening from parents or uncles or what, you know, that kind of thing, close relations,

00:43:01.140 step-parents, and, um, it's not, they're, they're not necessarily a danger to wider society.

00:43:08.540 And, and it, it kind of almost makes it worse in a way or, or darker at the very least where

00:43:15.240 they're, they're only a danger really to their own children.

00:43:18.700 And there's something, there's something has gone wrong. 0.52

00:43:22.840 Maybe it is opportunistic sex to some degree.

00:43:25.580 I'm sure that also happens, but, but, but there's also some just kind of a horrifying.

00:43:30.960 Dark thing that that's going on, uh, as well, but they're, they're not actually predators

00:43:37.680 in the way that we imagine them of, you know, the creepy guy with big glasses and we in a

00:43:44.620 pocket protector, who's, you know, trying to seduce girls at the playground or something.

00:43:50.020 They're not like that.

00:43:51.040 It's something different.

00:43:51.920 It's a different phenomenon.

00:43:52.940 And you actually do need to make this distinction.

00:43:55.980 It's a distinction with a difference.

00:43:58.500 And, um, the person I was talking to who was saying this, and, um, I don't know this

00:44:03.360 because this is certainly not my field, but the, the, that kind of child abuse that's happening

00:44:08.940 in the home isn't actually getting punished to the degree of the, the predator child abuse.

00:44:14.520 Yeah.

00:44:15.080 And, um, it should be, and it's harder, it's harder to learn about.

00:44:19.160 It's harder to find out for obvious reasons.

00:44:20.680 And it should be, and again, it's, it's kind of worse if anything.

00:44:26.260 Yeah.

00:44:26.580 Yeah.

00:44:26.900 It's really sad.

00:44:27.940 Yeah.

00:44:28.200 Yeah.

00:44:28.640 But, but there, but there are that type of person who I guess you could call a minor attracted

00:44:33.840 person.

00:44:34.540 They have this desire and it might very well be the result of abuse or who knows, there

00:44:41.420 might be a predisposition to this.

00:44:44.020 Um, but it's something that you kind of have to discuss objectively.

00:44:49.500 Especially if you're going to solve the problem and not just treat it as like, let's kill 0.99

00:44:54.420 the boy. 1.00

00:44:55.580 Yeah.

00:44:56.220 Yeah.

00:44:56.540 Because then who's going to come out about getting help and things like that.

00:45:00.300 Right.

00:45:00.720 And, um, yeah, yeah.

00:45:02.600 And I mean, like, I obviously have a very like visceral reaction to, um, to a lot of the

00:45:08.940 stuff, but, um, but you know, it is true that a lot of it is in the home.

00:45:14.420 A lot of it is from, um, family members and, um, it's sad because, you know, as a child,

00:45:20.300 you're, uh, you need to love your parents, you need to love your family members.

00:45:25.880 And so, um, and so these children, they have this need to love their, these people were

00:45:30.820 hurting them.

00:45:31.660 Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:32.900 Yeah.

00:45:33.340 Yeah.

00:45:33.580 Um, so Bryce, you wanted to, do you want to jump in here?

00:45:36.700 You were raising your hand.

00:45:38.580 Yeah.

00:45:38.980 Um, I was wondering what you guys thought about changing attitudes toward pedophilia over time,

00:45:45.540 because I think there's this sense that back in the good old days, the wild west, people 0.93

00:45:49.920 would just hunt pedophiles for fun and kill them. 0.91

00:45:53.260 I think there were some misconceptions that, and obviously I think pedophilia is abhorrent, 0.99

00:45:58.360 but marrying, you know, 14 year old girls was common back in the old days. 0.59

00:46:04.060 And I've talked to a lot of people like Republicans and conservatives, and they seem to have the

00:46:07.980 sense that, that the idea of like marrying sexually, being sexually attracted to 14 year

00:46:13.820 olds is some kind of new phenomenon.

00:46:15.220 And also have, have either of you read, uh, Nabokov and if so, what's your opinion of Lolita?

00:46:21.360 Cause I, I think Lolita is like, it's kind of the book that I feel the most disturbed

00:46:28.260 about because it's the writing style is so incredible, but the subject matter is so horrifying.

00:46:33.860 And I think it sort of reflects maybe changing attitudes toward pedophilia.

00:46:38.200 And I think like satanic panic and QAnon feeds into a lot of that as well.

00:46:43.580 But I was just wondering if you had any, yeah, well, you, you can jump in first, start us

00:46:47.900 and then I'll, I, I have something to say on this.

00:46:49.700 Um, I, I've only read like passages from, from that book.

00:46:53.900 Um, so I can't, I really, uh, weigh in with an opinion on it, but, um, as far as like changing

00:47:00.800 attitudes, like, I think obviously it's, it's still something that shouldn't be normalized.

00:47:04.960 I think, um, you know, we shouldn't normalize, you know, being attracted that way.

00:47:09.920 But, um, but I, I think maybe what we should do is normalize people seeking therapy for,

00:47:17.480 um, for, you know, disorders and for, and for, um, uh, for, you know, um, for things

00:47:26.120 that they don't, uh, they're very obviously going to be harmful to other people.

00:47:29.680 Right.

00:47:29.980 Um, maybe not, maybe not normalizing, like people coming out and being open about stuff

00:47:35.160 like that, because we, we still want like a social stigma around it.

00:47:39.180 Um, it's very important to have that stigma around it, but normalizing people saying like,

00:47:45.180 I have a problem and I need to seek help for it.

00:47:47.760 So, yeah, yeah, no, I, I actually have not read Lolita.

00:47:52.920 So that, that's a, it's a kind of hole in my literary, uh, education.

00:47:57.580 I, um, so yeah, I, I also, I've seen Stanley Kubrick's film, but that's, um, a little bit

00:48:02.040 different than getting into the, um, uh, to the prose.

00:48:06.040 Yeah.

00:48:06.180 I mean, these things come and go, um, actually in, in Ed Dutton's book, which I published about

00:48:12.340 almost a year ago, I guess now, um, the, there was actually a push towards the

00:48:17.740 words acceptance of these things in the sixties and seventies, and it actually went away.

00:48:23.340 So there was a kind of map push and it, it did strike me.

00:48:28.200 I mean, you know, again, these are distinctions with differences, even though they're all kind

00:48:32.540 of bad, but it did strike me as a, as these kind of free love advocates who were, you know,

00:48:38.740 excited about the birth control pill, because they could now go have sex with reckless abandon

00:48:43.400 and wanted to do it with 16 year olds too.

00:48:45.780 And it was just a kind of consequence of that, but they're actually that it actually went away,

00:48:51.660 um, to a large degree.

00:48:53.700 And I don't, I mean, I don't think it's, it's weird.

00:48:58.200 I think that, I think the panic over pedophilia or grooming or whatever has come back, but I'm

00:49:04.720 not sure the acceptance has, I think that's a bit of a myth.

00:49:08.140 I mean, it's, it's worth saying that, um, Milo got just immediately canceled.

00:49:14.920 Now, granted, maybe people were just looking for an excuse to cancel him, but there was, 0.93

00:49:21.520 I, no one came to his defense after his comments about, you know, getting raped is good. 1.00

00:49:28.020 And, and, you know, you should go find yourself a good priest or something. 0.92

00:49:31.220 And, and other comments in that area, which weren't actually presented as bad jokes.

00:49:37.020 They were, they were kind of presented as, as real and no one came to his defense.

00:49:41.500 I, I'm not positive that this nightmare scenario of liberals endorsing pedophilia is like just

00:49:50.200 around the corner.

00:49:51.580 Um, I don't, I mean, I, I don't know.

00:49:55.200 I just, I think it, it's a kind of a bridge too far and it kind of doesn't adhere to a lot

00:50:01.420 of their other priors about like harm avoidance and things like that.

00:50:05.460 Um, so no, no, granted, um, you know, if, if you had told me 15 years ago that, uh, uh,

00:50:13.800 hormone therapy and reassignment at, at a fairly young age would, would, again, it's not happening

00:50:19.980 in large numbers.

00:50:20.680 It's happening in very small numbers, in fact, but just the fact that it's a thing in general,

00:50:26.760 I would not have believed you.

00:50:28.200 So, you know, I could be wrong about this, but I definitely think there's this huge panic.

00:50:33.120 And I believe I said this in my conversation with destiny.

00:50:37.180 Um, and if not, I'll say it here, but it's like, so, you know, there, there's these issues

00:50:42.580 over these books and in, in libraries and they're getting banned in Florida and conservatives are

00:50:48.080 talking about them, et cetera.

00:50:49.400 And, and, and, you know, to be fair, I've seen some examples of these books and it's not

00:50:57.300 hardcore pornography, but it's also just not the kind of thing that I would ever want to

00:51:03.120 want to expose my children to, or anyone's children.

00:51:05.980 It's just, it's just weird.

00:51:07.640 And just, you know, come on.

00:51:10.160 Um, that being said, I mean, you have to go to a library and actually read that book.

00:51:15.960 I mean, you, it's almost like a good problem to have in a way of, of like your children

00:51:21.660 are checking out books in the library.

00:51:23.440 The clear issue for children's like mental sanity, mental health and sanity and like 0.99

00:51:32.040 proper, you know, growing up and so on is, um, the omnipresence of online pornography.

00:51:39.120 I mean, it's just not even close.

00:51:41.940 And, and granted some conservatives have talked about that, but it, it seems like one of these

00:51:47.880 things where the conservatives like react to something and then find this like weird, useless

00:51:53.960 solution to it.

00:51:55.740 So the, the, the problem is that we're surrounded by a lot of stuff that is like truly toxic

00:52:03.060 for anyone, but definitely for children.

00:52:05.800 And just, it's not the same.

00:52:07.800 I think I told this story the other day.

00:52:09.600 I mean, I remember when I was like 14 or something, and I remember stealing a penthouse actually

00:52:15.980 from a convenience store.

00:52:17.160 And so like my friend like did a distraction.

00:52:19.840 He like went to the counter and dropped something and I like stole the penthouse.

00:52:24.620 So this was like the lengths you had to go to, to see pornography.

00:52:29.040 And, and then once we had this thing, we're like, Oh, what do we do with it?

00:52:32.600 Should we, who should keep this object?

00:52:34.900 Should we sell it?

00:52:35.620 Should we, you know, it was just, you know, we were just like going to, you know,

00:52:39.580 going through all jumping, going through over these obstacles just for like one glimpse

00:52:43.500 of, you know, some stripper showing us, you know, the goods. 1.00

00:52:47.080 And, um, now it's just totally different. 0.51

00:52:50.800 You, you, you want to see some nightmare pornography scenario.

00:52:55.040 You just click on your phone immediately.

00:52:56.980 And it's just, it's just fundamentally different and it just can't be compared.

00:53:02.660 We are in a new world.

00:53:04.200 Don't talk about nudie mags of the past or like, you know, pornography.

00:53:09.580 In the ancient world or something like, it's just, it has no comparison and we need to 0.87

00:53:15.140 thus like address the issue.

00:53:16.760 And of course, conservatives address it in this just utterly useless way.

00:53:22.420 I would, I would even argue that, um, I think I would say that, um, like women in, on a whole 0.99

00:53:31.880 and girls on a whole have been dealing with this issue for a long time.

00:53:35.940 Um, I think it's just recently become much more widespread because of the availability

00:53:40.220 of porn.

00:53:40.860 But, um, you can look at like, I don't know, back when I was in high school, we had 17 magazine

00:53:45.760 and 17 magazine was something that like all of the girls in high school read.

00:53:49.820 Right.

00:53:50.620 And they had sex tips in the, in those magazines.

00:53:53.680 Um, right.

00:53:54.980 They, they, they had sex tips in those magazines. 0.95

00:53:57.080 They had, um, they, you know, they had, uh, sexualized content.

00:54:01.160 They had, well, they had like pictures of girls who were, you know, very clearly in, in, um,

00:54:06.380 you know, showing off their goods, showing off like their, you know, their, uh, you know,

00:54:10.700 their assets.

00:54:11.180 What were some of the sex tips?

00:54:12.520 I'm curious.

00:54:13.140 I remember my older sister subscribed to 17.

00:54:17.100 So this is getting, my parents never knew what was going on. 0.93

00:54:19.500 They were like, they were like blowjob tips and stuff like in these. 0.94

00:54:22.660 Okay. 0.98

00:54:23.200 Yeah.

00:54:23.540 Or, and it was, some of them.

00:54:25.640 Somewhat tame-ish, I guess, or.

00:54:27.760 Uh, some of them were tame.

00:54:29.100 Some of them was, some of them were like, like, you know, like use an ice cube or something.

00:54:34.500 And so like some of them were less tame than others.

00:54:37.380 Um, but, uh, yeah, so it's not.

00:54:41.040 To be fair, that's a good tip.

00:54:42.960 Uh, yeah, I, I wouldn't really know one way or the other, but, um, cause I'm, I'm not a man,

00:54:49.220 but, um, but, uh, so yeah, um, they're, they're like 17 magazine or, you know, you can look at

00:54:57.480 today, like high schoolers today are all using TikTok and you get more views by being more

00:55:02.320 promiscuous or not promiscuous, but being more provocative, being more, um, you know,

00:55:07.300 you're going to get more views as a girl and get more validation as a girl on Instagram

00:55:11.280 or TikTok.

00:55:11.840 If you're in a bikini, then you are, if you're, um, dressed, uh, you know, just normally.

00:55:18.000 Um, so it's, it's almost kind of worse than that.

00:55:20.700 Cause I, I, so I had this like two week excursion into the world of TikTok and I just got rid

00:55:27.480 of it because I, I was, I learned what I needed to learn and I was kind of horrified.

00:55:31.080 Um, but one thing that I noticed is that they would have like average housewives from somewhere 1.00

00:55:39.080 and they were attractive women, of course, but, but it, cause they were getting these 1.00

00:55:42.160 views, but they, they were just normal housewives in Nebraska or whatever. 1.00

00:55:46.640 And they would lip sync like a dialogue.

00:55:50.400 And so it wasn't even their words that they were doing it.

00:55:53.480 And it would be some kind of vulgar, you know, something like, you know, um, you know,

00:56:00.040 why am I a good housewife because I do the laundry and make dinner and take it up the 1.00

00:56:06.280 ass or something, just, just something that it's like, that's out there on the internet. 0.97

00:56:10.980 Like you're, you're, you live in Milwaukee and you're 40 years old and that's there forever. 0.96

00:56:17.440 You know, like why, what are you doing?

00:56:20.300 What, what, there, there is some kind of like, and it wasn't even nude, but there's just some

00:56:24.560 kind of like corruption that that's going on.

00:56:28.040 And, and look, I'm no Pollyanna.

00:56:29.960 I know, you know, I, I'll, I know people are kind of vulgar when they're alone, they're

00:56:35.180 private or they're at the bar.

00:56:36.640 They're talking, you know, I get it.

00:56:37.860 That's totally fine, but this isn't private.

00:56:40.780 This is, this is an illusion that of, of privacy and it's actually extremely public.

00:56:46.260 And there's just some kind of corrupting aspect to this.

00:56:51.420 Yeah.

00:56:51.780 Yeah.

00:56:52.340 Yeah.

00:56:52.680 Oh, I mean, again, what I would say is like, yeah, the, this act accessibility to porn is

00:56:57.380 obviously an issue, but I don't think it's, I don't think it's anything new either.

00:57:01.620 I think, I think what I see that's super troubling to me is, um, again, we're, uh, these girls are

00:57:10.320 being rewarded, right?

00:57:11.380 It feels good to get validation online.

00:57:13.460 It feels good to, feels good to get attention and validation and you're getting attention

00:57:18.180 and validation by selling your body.

00:57:21.320 You know, the more skin you show, the, the more validation you get.

00:57:24.680 And so I think that there's an issue there on obviously an issue with porn as well, but

00:57:29.320 when you personalize it so much, there's, there's definitely an issue.

00:57:33.720 So.

00:57:33.820 Yeah.

00:57:34.380 Yeah.

00:57:35.280 Just, just kind of the only fans phenomenon or something like this.

00:57:39.080 Yeah.

00:57:39.360 This is, um, massive.

00:57:41.380 It's almost worse when they're not making money at it or something.

00:57:44.840 It's, it's like they're.

00:57:47.140 Yeah.

00:57:47.740 I mean, it's up there forever.

00:57:49.240 Yeah.

00:57:49.520 Yeah.

00:57:49.700 How much, uh, how much of their, um, self-worth are they tying to it too?

00:57:53.740 Right.

00:57:54.400 Um, yeah.

00:57:55.440 Yeah.

00:57:56.640 Yeah, definitely.

00:57:58.080 Um, I, there was another aspect of this.

00:58:01.940 Did you see this thing with Lauren Boebert, who's now a 36 year old grandmother?

00:58:06.680 I have not seen, I've not seen this.

00:58:09.040 So this is a kind of interesting little tidbit.

00:58:12.860 I, I wanted to tweet about this, but I, I had to take care of some other things today,

00:58:16.300 but, um, so Lauren Boebert was at this mom Republican rally type thing. 1.00

00:58:25.200 Um, and she says like, Oh, I'm very happy to announce this.

00:58:29.860 Uh, but my, you know, we brought life into the world and I'm a grandmother at 36.

00:58:34.820 And she actually said a few things that were pretty funny.

00:58:37.600 She said, um, you know, I made my mother, a grandmother at it when she was 36.

00:58:43.920 So I guess it's a genetic or something.

00:58:46.540 It's like, it probably is, you know, but, um, there, so her son, I believe got a girl

00:58:55.120 pregnant at 16 and he's 17.

00:58:58.460 So it's, it actually is a kind of child.

00:59:01.940 I mean, it, it's not the same as like a child bride in the 19th century or something, but

00:59:06.000 it is a kind of child bride situation.

00:59:09.660 And, um, and groom, uh, teen groom and teen bride.

00:59:14.040 Um, but there, I, I guess there are a number of, of like aspects to this.

00:59:20.440 Um, and I, I saw that Richard Hanania, um, who I'll often agree with, but also often profoundly

00:59:29.440 disagree with, but, um, he said this is, it's like, it's not just a matter of fertility, but

00:59:35.800 it is a matter of the, uh, uh, what is it?

00:59:40.240 The frequency of generations.

00:59:41.700 And so like, there are women who went to Yale, got an internship throughout their early twenties, 0.95

00:59:52.740 worked their way up the corporate ladder.

00:59:54.940 And now at age 36 have decided that they're going to have one child.

00:59:59.680 And, you know, Lauren Boebert's a grandma at age 36. 0.95

01:00:03.680 And so on some level, at least demographically, Lauren Boebert is going to inherit the earth 1.00

01:00:08.360 and Lauren Boebert's a moron. 1.00

01:00:11.380 Uh, to be frank. 1.00

01:00:13.540 And this girl who went to Yale is not a moron. 0.91

01:00:17.080 She's actually pretty civilized and probably waspy and, uh, Eddie grace to everyone. 1.00

01:00:22.760 She's cute. 0.95

01:00:24.180 Incorrect.

01:00:24.700 Um, but, uh, uh, but so it's, there, there is something there's, there's also this other

01:00:32.620 irony about it, which is that a lot of the anti-abortion, um, uh, movement is kind of wrapped

01:00:41.280 up in this like traditional Christianity or things like that.

01:00:46.400 And there is talk about that.

01:00:47.860 Like, you know, we want to get rid of abortion.

01:00:49.860 We're going to force all these career gals to become wives and, and, uh, and good mothers 1.00

01:00:55.100 and all that kind of stuff.

01:00:57.160 But at the end of the day, it's a kind of fertility cult.

01:01:01.160 And just merely that, like, there was no thought that, wow, that girl's 16 and your son is 17.

01:01:10.880 He's he's, his brain's not developed.

01:01:12.920 I know as a, I was a 17 year old boy.

01:01:16.020 I was a complete maniac at that age, you know, like the, the, the idea of like taking care

01:01:22.280 of any, taking care of myself was too much to ask.

01:01:25.720 I mean, it's just, it's like, there's no even thought towards that there there's, you

01:01:30.400 know, it seems like the best of the anti-abortion crusade would almost be like, you know, where

01:01:35.900 we were Stanford tradition and the family and so on.

01:01:38.880 And it's, it's almost like they're now just a pure fertility cult where it's just like, 0.82

01:01:43.220 yeah, pop them out.

01:01:44.400 You know, you were a grandma at 36.

01:01:46.140 I was a grandma at like 20.

01:01:47.800 Cause we're just totally nuts out here.

01:01:49.880 Like, it's just, just kind of awful.

01:01:52.600 Basically.

01:01:53.700 I don't know.

01:01:54.100 My inner wasp reacts to this pretty strongly.

01:01:57.600 This is why we supported birth control.

01:02:01.020 Um, I never thought of it like that.

01:02:02.580 That's a really interesting way to think about it, especially with like the, the frequency

01:02:06.580 of generations.

01:02:07.260 I never really thought about that.

01:02:08.660 That's pretty interesting.

01:02:10.180 Um, but yeah, I know that there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of alarmism.

01:02:14.400 About, um, about the, about the, uh, what is it called?

01:02:23.180 The decline in birth rates, I guess.

01:02:25.700 There's a lot of alarmism around that, around, um, around, um, the amount that we're reproducing.

01:02:31.620 And, um, and I understand the, the reason for the alarm, you know, we need people to, um,

01:02:39.020 we need new people to, you know, carry the workload, you know, into the future and carry

01:02:45.380 the earth, you know, or, or something like that.

01:02:47.520 Um, but at the same time, um, somebody, somebody brought up an interesting point that there's

01:02:54.020 going to be a lot of automation and a lot of like robotics in the future.

01:02:57.980 And that maybe, um, it's not as big of a deal as, as we think it is because we have a lot

01:03:04.440 of automation.

01:03:04.940 Now, I don't know.

01:03:05.940 I have no opinion on this myself, but, um, but it's an interesting thought.

01:03:10.420 Like, is there an amount of automation and amount of, um, an amount of, uh, uh, like

01:03:19.000 techno technological advancement that would make us worry less about reproducing, worry

01:03:25.480 less about, you know, reprodu, reproducing rates and how many children people are having.

01:03:30.320 So, well, I think that's, uh, that's definitely an issue.

01:03:35.000 Um, I, I think there's also a question of like, what is the sustainability of this planet?

01:03:41.240 And, and so on, do we, you know, to the pro-lifers or like, you know, at some point, like if everyone

01:03:48.000 has five kids and we have growing demographics year after year, after year, like we're, you

01:03:55.760 know, the planet is, is going to have a hundred billion people on it.

01:03:59.720 And what, what does that mean in terms of, I mean, even putting aside like climate change,

01:04:04.300 what, what does that mean in terms of just space, the natural world, uh, area, just living

01:04:09.420 conditions, um, poverty, I mean, these favela cities and so on in South America, I mean,

01:04:15.880 just imagine that on a whole new scale.

01:04:18.780 It's, it's rather horrifying.

01:04:20.180 And to think that that wouldn't be the case with a population is, um, completely naive.

01:04:26.000 Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think that there are a lot of serious issues like on, on both sides

01:04:33.180 of this.

01:04:34.060 And, and I think the, the issue that I also kind of care about most is, is, you know,

01:04:38.320 a kind of who and whom, you know, and I would rather, you know, I know, I know she's going 0.98

01:04:44.120 to be a shit lib liberal, uh, shit lib Democrat voter or something, but like, I would rather 0.99

01:04:49.660 that Yale graduate have two children than Lauren Boebert have, you know, a hundred or whatever 1.00

01:04:55.720 she has plans.

01:04:56.860 Um, I think that's just better for society and culture and, and, and et cetera.

01:05:03.020 Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I, I think there are a lot of huge issues, but I, I think the

01:05:08.660 main reality of the situation is that we are facing this problem.

01:05:15.480 Like I, I even have, and I still have this, I, I have a little bit of a conspiracy theory

01:05:22.240 about the Roe v Wade decision.

01:05:24.340 And I, and I think it is coming from demographic, um, anxiety.

01:05:29.360 And, um, so obviously we have a lower birth rate, um, in the United States, but we're

01:05:38.420 actually not doing nearly as badly as, you know, South Korea, um, or Denmark or et cetera,

01:05:46.760 where they're, they're not even close to replacement.

01:05:49.480 I think all said and done, America has a replacement fertility rate.

01:05:53.560 I could go look at these or, or it's fairly close to it.

01:05:57.160 Although the pandemic affected things in a negative way.

01:06:00.660 Uh, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I think there, that, that issue is serious and you can't,

01:06:08.420 the, you know, immigration brings in its own problems. 1.00

01:06:11.180 I mean, are you really going to bring in a hundred million immigrants?

01:06:15.080 We've seen that this is already, you know, it, there needs to be kind of a trickle and

01:06:20.180 not a flood, or you, you will just create problems.

01:06:23.140 I mean, just, you know, putting values aside, it's a difficult thing.

01:06:26.900 Um, but beyond that, uh, the, and, and this is where I'm relying on, um, Wasserman a bit

01:06:34.780 here, but the, the second world, so to speak, is going through its own collapse.

01:06:39.620 So Mexico is going through its own demographic collapse.

01:06:43.520 And that has been one of the primary sources of, of immigration legal and illegal.

01:06:48.120 And so like they, you know, cause there's this, this natural tendency, it's just a secular

01:06:54.160 law that you, you bring in medicine, people can live longer.

01:06:59.880 You bring in home technologies like a washing machine, you know, that, that you, you don't

01:07:05.680 need as much labor in the, in the household. 1.00

01:07:09.120 Um, you get educated, you start to kind of think for your, or women particularly start to

01:07:13.180 think for themselves.

01:07:13.900 They sort of say, Oh, I want to have this and that.

01:07:15.820 And they're not just producing kids at 16 or something, like they're just this whole

01:07:20.260 host of factors.

01:07:21.220 It's, it's over-determined, um, childhood mortality goes down, which is a huge thing with medicine.

01:07:27.320 So you don't need to have 10 to get five.

01:07:30.460 You can actually have two to get to, you know, um, so, you know, dramatically different from

01:07:36.880 yesteryear, but it's just a secular trend.

01:07:39.940 I don't know if there's any real exception to this is that you start to get down to replacement

01:07:45.020 and then you start to maybe even drop below replacement as things become expensive and

01:07:49.640 so on.

01:07:50.920 Um, so it's like, we're going to face this problem either way.

01:07:55.780 You can't replace it with immigration. 1.00

01:07:57.760 And I have this theory that like, look, the Supreme court is the ultimate.

01:08:02.820 Like deep state body.

01:08:05.080 There is, I mean, it's like the inner sanctum of the ruling elite to some degree.

01:08:11.200 And they did this, you know, surely they didn't do this all on their own or all due to like

01:08:17.840 legal reasoning or something.

01:08:19.500 Surely it was a kind of rationalization or a choice on some level.

01:08:23.400 There was a lot of funding of this by conservative Catholic groups in particular, but I, I think,

01:08:28.280 I wonder if they're trying to solve the demographic, the demographic issue by force in a way, and

01:08:37.500 that this was actually a strong decision coming from on high.

01:08:42.400 It's just a thought, but I, I actually, I think I'm right.

01:08:48.120 I mean, I know it's kind of a conspiracy theory that I can't prove, but I think there, I think

01:08:52.340 it was derived from demographic anxiety almost more than anything.

01:08:56.440 And it's like, we, we've got to crack this nut somehow.

01:08:59.480 So let's, let's just outlaw abortion. 0.93

01:09:03.220 That's an interesting thought.

01:09:05.220 Um, the, the only, the, you know, and I definitely have to think about it more, but the only thing

01:09:09.600 is, um, by creating a, you know, outlawing abortion or, or, you know, on a nationwide level

01:09:15.060 overturning Roe versus Wade, um, it, it doesn't stop abortions, right?

01:09:20.440 It only, um, as they say, it only stops like safe abortions, but, um, you know, there, there

01:09:27.100 are a lot of, uh, states now where, um, it, not only is it, uh, you know, stopping people

01:09:32.360 from getting abortions, but, um, a lot of these clinics that provided abortions, not only provided

01:09:36.580 abortions, they provided like, um, uh, they provided healthcare to low income women. 1.00

01:09:41.920 And because abortions are now no longer, um, allowed, a lot of these clinics in these states

01:09:48.120 started shutting down.

01:09:49.460 So you're not just getting people who can't access abortion.

01:09:52.440 You're getting people who are no longer getting pap smears or no longer getting annual checkups,

01:09:57.040 um, getting access to birth control.

01:09:59.120 Um, so, uh, yeah, I can't really say, um, what my opinion is on whether, um, whether it,

01:10:05.920 you know, it's, I'm sure some of it is derived from, from, uh, you know, this anxiety around,

01:10:10.700 uh, demographic decline, but, um, but, you know, it's also, it's just creating such a,

01:10:17.280 like, um, worst outcomes in the long run for people.

01:10:20.840 And I, I think people really didn't think about, um, I think about that, right.

01:10:24.880 How many women are low income women are now not getting cancer screened, right? 1.00

01:10:29.540 How many of them are going to discover cancer too late or, um, how many people are, are not

01:10:35.560 getting contraception because they don't have access to contraception.

01:10:38.520 And now they're going to have even worse problems with family planning.

01:10:42.500 Right.

01:10:43.080 So, yeah, no, um, I think Bryce was saying this in, in Chris in the chat about their, the

01:10:49.700 Soviet union, there are precedents for this.

01:10:51.860 I believe Stalin, I, I remember looking into this at some point, I believe Stalin banned

01:10:57.240 abortion as well, because abortion became legalized early on in the Bolshevik regime.

01:11:01.560 And then, um, Stalin did, um, and there, there are some other cases of in Romania and,

01:11:08.280 and so on.

01:11:09.160 Yeah, Romania is a really bad example too, because Romania, they, they, um, they criminalized

01:11:13.220 abortion.

01:11:14.180 Um, and then you ended up having these orphanages filled with, um, with children who'd never

01:11:19.860 been touched, who'd never been, who'd never like had, um, like any education, anything

01:11:26.340 like that.

01:11:26.840 And so when, when, um, yeah, when the Soviet union, you know, when communism fell, essentially,

01:11:32.680 um, they discovered all these orphanages with all these children who'd, who'd, um, been

01:11:38.500 shackled.

01:11:39.040 Some of them had been shackled to their beds.

01:11:40.700 Um, uh, you know, all these, um, yeah, it's horrible.

01:11:44.420 All these, all these children in these orphanages that were never taken care of.

01:11:47.960 So it's, it's really sad, really bad outcomes.

01:11:51.640 Yeah.

01:11:52.620 Um, and just to back up the whole thing, I mean, they, they, the, the, the, the conservatives

01:11:57.800 clearly are not stopping an abortion.

01:12:00.340 I mean, there, there have been a few things.

01:12:02.380 There have been a people discussed, um, uh, overturning Supreme court decisions, uh, regarding

01:12:09.160 contraception.

01:12:10.460 The, that's kind of in the air there. 0.54

01:12:12.540 They're, they're also doing some very almost silly things.

01:12:15.620 I I'll have to figure out which state did this, but, um, they, they were defining the,

01:12:22.360 the child as like a live at conception.

01:12:25.460 And so you can be charged for murder through abortion or assault.

01:12:30.600 If the abortion fails, or you attempt to get an abortion or something.

01:12:34.400 And then if the, the legal mechanism they're using is if, if the life of the mother was at

01:12:41.340 risk, which is a real thing that that can definitely happen, um, that the, the, the mother can claim 0.91

01:12:47.960 self-defense of, wow.

01:12:51.840 Yeah. 0.89

01:12:52.280 Like that would be the legal, like, it, it just shows how just kind of insane they are.

01:12:57.980 Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I do think this is coming.

01:13:02.360 I, I think a, I mean, I've said this many times, I think a general Christian conservative

01:13:07.340 backlash is coming and it's underway and, uh, and I think, yeah, they might be coming for

01:13:15.140 us, uh, at some point because I, I, I, I'm not endorsing any of this.

01:13:19.340 Uh, but I, I, I also think there's going to be at an almost like brute force way of handling

01:13:24.760 the demographic issue, which I think this is all a part of.

01:13:28.200 Um, yeah, I mean, they're, uh, you know, the, the generally like foster care systems and,

01:13:34.420 you know, um, like state, uh, care systems are not really the greatest.

01:13:39.560 So, um, if they're going to criminalize abortion on a, um, larger scale, uh, you know, uh, unless

01:13:49.280 we want to see like a, a repeat of what happened in Romania, they're going to have to really step

01:13:53.840 up the game when it comes to foster care systems and like state, you know, the state, uh, child

01:13:59.000 care system.

01:14:00.340 So, yeah, yeah, yeah, they won't.

01:14:03.300 Yeah.

RadixJournal - March 11, 2023

The Troll Storm

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