RadixJournal - The Wandering Scot

00:00:00.000 Well, Colin, welcome back to the program.

00:00:02.260 Yeah, that does sound slightly strange, doesn't it?

00:00:05.840 It does. It's good to talk to you again.

00:00:08.780 Well, Colin, you are a wandering Scotsman,

00:00:13.240 so you were not allowed to vote in the recent referendum for Scottish independence,

00:00:18.700 but how would you have voted?

00:00:21.100 Well, that's a tricky one, isn't it? Wow, what should I say there?

00:00:24.800 No, I'd definitely have voted yes,

00:00:27.420 because I think if yes had won,

00:00:31.180 it would have had a lot of very, very interesting repercussions.

00:00:36.900 For one thing, it would have shrunk the United Kingdom

00:00:39.860 into being a kind of insignificant state.

00:00:45.340 It would have threatened the British permanent seat on the Security Council.

00:00:51.460 It would have undermined the prestige of Britain

00:00:53.860 and therefore lessened its power as a bridge between America and Europe,

00:00:59.120 and therefore it would have greatly undermined the sort of transatlantic alliance.

00:01:06.720 And so, you know, from a kind of geopolitical point of view,

00:01:10.120 it would have had a lot of big effects,

00:01:12.500 even though it was quite a small vote involving only three or four million people.

00:01:19.380 Right.

00:01:20.640 And I think it would have been better for the UK itself,

00:01:25.280 like just ignoring all these kind of global impacts.

00:01:28.600 It would have been much better for the UK,

00:01:30.640 because not only would it have helped Scotland,

00:01:34.060 it would have helped England.

00:01:35.220 Now, in the case of Scotland,

00:01:37.080 a lot of people say that Scotland would have just sheared off

00:01:41.200 and become a kind of cross between North Korea and Sweden

00:01:45.760 with lots of welfare and mass immigration and the rest of it.

00:01:50.420 And, of course, you know, that sounds fairly plausible

00:01:54.580 if you look at some of the political positions

00:01:57.580 that the SNP and the Labour Party in Scotland take.

00:02:01.320 But, of course, being a new country on its own,

00:02:06.640 they would have soon had to confront reality,

00:02:09.620 and then that would have obviously pushed the country

00:02:11.720 in a much more rightward direction.

00:02:13.380 I mean, the reason Scotland is so notoriously left-wing

00:02:17.220 is because it's in Britain.

00:02:18.740 Being in Britain makes Scotland left-wing.

00:02:22.300 And then from the point of view...

00:02:23.640 Do you think just because of a certain kind of chip on their shoulder

00:02:27.240 of feeling like they're second-class citizens,

00:02:30.180 or why is that?

00:02:33.100 Well, yeah, it's sort of a complicated thing.

00:02:37.180 First of all, a lot of the young people leave the country, 1.00

00:02:40.540 and so you have a kind of older demographic.

00:02:43.680 Older demographics, they tend to be more welfare-orientated,

00:02:47.600 so they socialise medicine and stuff like that.

00:02:51.920 You also have a kind of...

00:02:54.040 Scotland's a kind of industrial or post-industrial country,

00:02:57.400 and so throughout the decades of the 20th century,

00:03:05.400 the country sort of adopted socialistic attitudes,

00:03:10.760 and partly as a kind of...

00:03:14.240 partly as a way of a certain national identity.

00:03:17.520 So if you look back in the kind of early to mid-20th century,

00:03:22.160 nationalism wasn't really a viable political option

00:03:25.800 like it is more recently.

00:03:28.480 So if you were nationalistic,

00:03:32.480 the only expression for that would be the Labour Party,

00:03:36.320 because the Labour Party had a lot of Scottish members,

00:03:40.720 a lot of Scottish leaders,

00:03:41.900 and the Conservative Party was almost totally English,

00:03:46.160 and even those Scottish members of the Conservative Party

00:03:50.300 sounded like English people.

00:03:53.180 So there was a kind of...

00:03:54.680 up until the 19...

00:03:56.760 That's interesting.

00:03:58.100 Just to chime in,

00:03:58.820 I mean, you can see a lot of that in the United States as well,

00:04:01.680 a lot of the Midwestern and Northeastern Catholic vote

00:04:05.640 going to the Democrats

00:04:06.840 as people who might have felt just a little...

00:04:10.900 you know, or Irish Catholics.

00:04:12.380 And again, this is definitely changing,

00:04:14.380 because the United States' ethnicity is fading

00:04:17.340 of any significance outside of, you know,

00:04:20.380 St. Patrick's Day parades or beer festivals.

00:04:24.060 But that being said,

00:04:25.200 there was a very strong component to that

00:04:28.100 of a certain kind of Catholic vote

00:04:30.300 that tended towards the left wing,

00:04:33.480 the underdog side and so on and so forth,

00:04:36.180 even though they're...

00:04:37.640 you look at them,

00:04:38.560 their way, their, you know,

00:04:40.140 their social values or whatever

00:04:42.060 were hardly leftist at all.

00:04:45.840 Yeah.

00:04:46.340 Also, Scottish working class politics,

00:04:50.540 there's also a very large sectarian element.

00:04:54.360 And, you know,

00:04:54.900 this affected things in various ways,

00:04:57.520 like up until about the 1950s,

00:05:00.700 Scotland tended to actually vote

00:05:03.440 more Conservative MPs in Labour, apparently.

00:05:08.200 And, you know,

00:05:09.300 the Protestant working class

00:05:11.700 tended to be unionist.

00:05:13.680 So it was in Scotland,

00:05:16.420 the Conservative Party

00:05:17.440 was always the Conservative

00:05:18.580 and Unionist Party.

00:05:20.540 And it was sort of tied into

00:05:22.540 Northern Irish politics as well.

00:05:25.220 So through unionism,

00:05:28.580 you know,

00:05:28.880 Conservatism was sort of bolstered

00:05:31.320 among the working class.

00:05:32.960 But then,

00:05:33.580 as you sort of move out of the 50s

00:05:35.340 into the 60s,

00:05:36.740 Scotland starts to become 0.55

00:05:38.180 increasingly Labour.

00:05:40.540 And at the same time,

00:05:41.560 you start to see the rise

00:05:42.760 of the National Party,

00:05:45.340 the Scottish National Party.

00:05:48.100 What is the history of that,

00:05:50.060 of Scottish nationalism?

00:05:51.220 Because, you know,

00:05:51.920 I was...

00:05:52.220 just before we went on air

00:05:54.580 with this podcast,

00:05:56.200 we were talking about

00:05:57.100 the comparison

00:05:58.360 to the 1980 referendum

00:06:00.880 in Quebec.

00:06:02.700 And you can see

00:06:03.940 a real historical background

00:06:07.280 for Quebec nationalism

00:06:10.180 in the sense that

00:06:10.840 these are French speakers,

00:06:12.020 they have a connection to France.

00:06:13.600 You had Canada

00:06:14.420 as part of the British realm

00:06:16.480 and having a very strong

00:06:17.880 Anglo-Saxon,

00:06:19.840 in some ways American,

00:06:21.260 you know,

00:06:22.480 component to it

00:06:24.040 and that they...

00:06:25.040 that the French Canadians

00:06:26.860 felt that they were different

00:06:28.480 and so on and so forth.

00:06:29.660 That kind of makes sense.

00:06:31.440 What is the history

00:06:33.100 of Scottish nationalism?

00:06:35.140 Where did this come from?

00:06:36.200 I mean,

00:06:36.600 when you were a kid,

00:06:37.660 is this something

00:06:38.200 that you would hear about

00:06:39.860 or think about?

00:06:41.980 Yeah,

00:06:42.560 you would hear

00:06:43.580 about the Scottish National Party

00:06:45.320 sort of quite frequently

00:06:46.820 from about the 1970s onwards.

00:06:48.900 They had an initial breakthrough

00:06:52.260 in one of the by-elections

00:06:54.820 I think in the 1960s

00:06:57.080 and then by the 1970s

00:06:59.720 they were kind of established

00:07:01.620 on the kind of political scene.

00:07:05.100 But Scottish nationalism

00:07:06.680 is sort of...

00:07:08.900 I mean,

00:07:09.340 the identity

00:07:11.040 on which nationalism

00:07:12.900 is always founded

00:07:14.980 has always been there.

00:07:16.240 Yeah.

00:07:17.040 Scottish nationalism

00:07:17.920 is like...

00:07:19.260 I mean,

00:07:19.600 Scottish identity

00:07:20.460 has always been there.

00:07:22.100 It's never...

00:07:22.620 It's never disappeared.

00:07:24.520 And it was just

00:07:25.600 because the British Empire

00:07:26.980 was so successful

00:07:28.780 and offered

00:07:29.620 so many opportunities

00:07:30.840 and disproportionately,

00:07:33.460 in a sense,

00:07:34.100 to Scottish people.

00:07:35.240 I think most of the

00:07:36.200 viceroys of India

00:07:37.080 were Scottish

00:07:37.660 as one example.

00:07:40.240 And,

00:07:40.300 you know,

00:07:41.220 because of that,

00:07:42.240 it wasn't really an issue

00:07:44.360 to make it into

00:07:45.520 a kind of political thing.

00:07:46.700 I mean,

00:07:46.920 Scottish nationalism

00:07:48.020 was expressed in other ways,

00:07:50.580 you know,

00:07:50.820 through military regiments

00:07:53.280 and the British Army

00:07:54.300 and through,

00:07:55.600 you know,

00:07:56.280 setting up places

00:07:57.360 like Hong Kong

00:07:58.280 and,

00:07:59.180 you know,

00:07:59.360 all these kind of

00:08:00.180 builders of empire.

00:08:02.340 So,

00:08:02.960 I think it only started

00:08:05.340 to become

00:08:06.060 a bit of an issue

00:08:07.440 when the British Empire

00:08:09.280 started to rapidly shrink.

00:08:12.320 And then,

00:08:13.840 you know,

00:08:15.360 then it started to,

00:08:17.680 even more,

00:08:19.480 it became an issue

00:08:20.220 from about the

00:08:21.360 late 70s,

00:08:25.060 1980s

00:08:25.760 because then you had

00:08:27.060 this decline

00:08:28.660 of British industry

00:08:29.740 and then you had

00:08:31.740 a very unsympathetic

00:08:33.260 conservative government

00:08:34.220 that had just no interest

00:08:35.860 whatsoever

00:08:36.280 in trying to,

00:08:37.340 you know,

00:08:37.700 protect or invest

00:08:39.340 or preserve

00:08:40.120 British industry

00:08:41.020 mainly for kind of

00:08:42.680 ideological reasons.

00:08:44.860 They saw

00:08:45.660 the old traditional

00:08:47.060 industries

00:08:47.720 as heavily unionized,

00:08:50.200 which they were.

00:08:51.660 But,

00:08:51.980 you know,

00:08:52.320 if you think about

00:08:52.920 a country like Germany,

00:08:54.080 you know,

00:08:54.340 they're,

00:08:55.080 racially,

00:08:55.540 they're not that different

00:08:56.320 from us,

00:08:56.900 but they've managed

00:08:57.540 to preserve

00:08:58.240 a lot of their industries.

00:09:00.760 And so,

00:09:01.780 you know,

00:09:02.320 Britain should have been 0.99

00:09:02.980 doing something similar.

00:09:04.280 They should have been

00:09:04.820 investing in their

00:09:05.940 own industries,

00:09:06.900 improving everything

00:09:07.620 and keeping the quality up

00:09:10.120 and productivity

00:09:11.280 is very high

00:09:12.080 amongst British workers.

00:09:14.820 But there was a kind of

00:09:16.260 almost ideological decision

00:09:17.860 to sort of turn away

00:09:19.600 from that

00:09:20.160 and at the same time

00:09:21.180 that sort of fitted in

00:09:22.100 with the interests

00:09:22.660 of the city of London

00:09:23.700 so to move the economy

00:09:24.900 much more to kind of

00:09:26.420 parasitical kind of

00:09:28.140 banking financial

00:09:29.140 sort of sector.

00:09:30.240 and that particularly,

00:09:33.580 you know,

00:09:35.000 alienated a lot

00:09:36.100 for Scotland

00:09:36.620 because Scotland,

00:09:38.360 many of the jobs

00:09:39.620 we're in,

00:09:40.120 things like shipbuilding

00:09:41.280 and coal mining

00:09:41.980 and steel making.

00:09:44.360 And so,

00:09:45.420 from the era

00:09:46.660 of Thatcher,

00:09:47.940 the Conservative Party

00:09:49.640 shrinks to about

00:09:51.560 like one or two MPs

00:09:53.680 out of about 70

00:09:55.700 or 80 Scottish MPs.

00:09:57.020 So,

00:09:59.760 so you have this

00:10:00.460 development

00:10:01.540 of a very

00:10:03.440 left-wing culture

00:10:04.580 based upon,

00:10:05.840 you know,

00:10:06.240 being part

00:10:06.860 of the United Kingdom.

00:10:07.960 So,

00:10:08.900 and so you have

00:10:09.980 two quite distinct

00:10:12.100 political cultures.

00:10:14.780 Scotland leans left

00:10:15.940 even though

00:10:16.280 it's not really

00:10:16.860 essentially left.

00:10:18.360 It's sort of

00:10:19.020 almost forced

00:10:19.820 to be left

00:10:20.360 by being part

00:10:21.680 of the United Kingdom.

00:10:24.020 And then England

00:10:24.780 tends to,

00:10:25.720 you know,

00:10:25.920 relative to Scotland,

00:10:26.620 it's a bit more

00:10:27.200 right-leaning.

00:10:28.380 But then Scotland

00:10:29.180 manages to pull

00:10:30.140 England to the left.

00:10:32.200 And so you get

00:10:33.020 more socialism

00:10:34.200 than you otherwise

00:10:36.040 would.

00:10:38.220 That's interesting.

00:10:39.380 And I'd never

00:10:39.960 really thought

00:10:40.640 about how

00:10:41.560 the Labour Party

00:10:43.300 and a certain

00:10:44.260 kind of leftism

00:10:45.600 could be

00:10:47.000 an expression

00:10:48.040 of nationalism.

00:10:49.320 And certainly

00:10:49.860 the Scottish

00:10:50.900 National Party

00:10:51.600 was,

00:10:52.880 by all,

00:10:53.560 you know,

00:10:53.800 outward effects

00:10:54.420 a left-wing party

00:10:55.520 if you just,

00:10:56.160 you know,

00:10:56.380 it sort of

00:10:58.180 switched

00:10:58.640 to the left

00:11:00.140 more or less

00:11:00.760 in the 1970s.

00:11:03.720 I mean,

00:11:04.320 in the early days,

00:11:05.540 the main

00:11:05.900 jibe

00:11:07.260 or insult

00:11:08.620 used against

00:11:09.620 the Scottish

00:11:10.180 National Party

00:11:10.900 was that

00:11:11.260 it was just

00:11:11.800 the Conservatives

00:11:12.860 in a different guise.

00:11:14.640 and there was

00:11:16.100 a certain degree

00:11:16.880 of, you know,

00:11:17.580 truth to that.

00:11:19.700 Interesting.

00:11:20.860 Yeah.

00:11:21.720 And the other

00:11:22.160 thing that was

00:11:22.900 interesting was

00:11:23.520 that there was

00:11:24.080 this, you know,

00:11:25.340 you had an

00:11:26.200 expression of

00:11:27.600 Scottish nationalism

00:11:28.440 that manifested

00:11:30.340 in terms of

00:11:31.160 these kind of

00:11:31.900 Labour,

00:11:32.440 left-wing

00:11:32.860 kind of ideas.

00:11:34.340 And that was

00:11:35.100 in a way

00:11:35.540 a reaction

00:11:36.220 to this

00:11:37.000 Anglo-Saxon-Thatcherite 0.93

00:11:40.220 neoliberalism

00:11:41.340 of, you know,

00:11:42.660 unfettered

00:11:43.380 capitalism

00:11:44.080 and unending

00:11:45.120 individuality

00:11:46.320 and all this

00:11:46.880 kind of stuff.

00:11:48.300 So it's

00:11:48.880 very interesting.

00:11:49.760 It shows

00:11:50.460 once you kind of

00:11:51.040 dig into

00:11:51.720 left-right divides,

00:11:54.040 they become

00:11:54.620 much more

00:11:55.300 complicated

00:11:55.960 and much more

00:11:56.640 messy.

00:11:57.960 I mean,

00:11:58.240 think of it

00:11:58.640 from this point of view.

00:11:59.620 I mean,

00:11:59.940 Scottish voters

00:12:01.080 voting for

00:12:01.840 a Scottish

00:12:02.320 National Party

00:12:03.280 MP to go to

00:12:05.440 Westminster

00:12:06.260 makes no sense

00:12:07.580 whatsoever.

00:12:08.300 Right.

00:12:09.220 Because, you know,

00:12:09.860 Scotland,

00:12:10.380 it's like less

00:12:10.920 than 10%

00:12:11.420 of the population.

00:12:12.460 So even if

00:12:13.240 everybody in Scotland

00:12:14.380 voted SNP,

00:12:15.820 that would just

00:12:16.960 create a group

00:12:18.280 of about 70

00:12:19.120 Scottish National

00:12:20.000 MPs in

00:12:20.880 Westminster.

00:12:22.220 What can they do?

00:12:23.300 Nothing,

00:12:23.840 obviously.

00:12:25.040 But by voting

00:12:25.780 Labour,

00:12:27.440 then there's a

00:12:28.260 real chance

00:12:28.860 of, like,

00:12:29.820 swinging the

00:12:30.320 election one way

00:12:31.080 or the other.

00:12:31.620 So they become,

00:12:32.620 in a sense,

00:12:33.340 it's a sort of

00:12:33.940 kingmaker position.

00:12:36.140 So it makes

00:12:37.140 sense to be

00:12:38.340 Scottish,

00:12:39.320 if you're a

00:12:39.840 Scottish nationalist,

00:12:40.920 a supporter,

00:12:42.160 you tend to think

00:12:42.940 Westminster,

00:12:44.200 Labour,

00:12:45.340 Scottish Parliament,

00:12:46.220 SNP.

00:12:47.440 Interesting.

00:12:48.380 What do you think

00:12:49.200 is the future

00:12:50.200 of the United

00:12:51.720 Kingdom

00:12:52.240 and federalism

00:12:54.420 and so on

00:12:54.960 and so forth?

00:12:55.420 You know,

00:12:56.300 one interesting thing

00:12:57.700 that I've come across

00:12:59.020 when I've been

00:12:59.840 researching this matter

00:13:01.520 and reading about

00:13:02.860 the referendum

00:13:03.340 is that there's

00:13:04.520 this double standard

00:13:05.760 in a way

00:13:06.960 with Scottish

00:13:07.740 nationalism

00:13:08.260 where, you know,

00:13:10.300 Scotland at the

00:13:11.320 moment has

00:13:12.080 a large degree

00:13:13.160 of autonomy.

00:13:15.020 Well, I guess,

00:13:15.760 whether it's large,

00:13:16.620 I guess,

00:13:16.940 depends on your

00:13:17.420 perspective.

00:13:17.940 But it has

00:13:18.600 autonomy in

00:13:20.680 questions of

00:13:21.520 taxing and

00:13:22.100 spending

00:13:22.540 within Scotland.

00:13:24.460 At the same

00:13:25.300 time,

00:13:26.600 in a way,

00:13:27.200 the English

00:13:27.700 don't have

00:13:28.660 that benefit.

00:13:32.040 You know,

00:13:32.260 it kind of

00:13:32.760 reminds me,

00:13:33.380 there's something

00:13:33.880 to the English

00:13:34.460 soul.

00:13:34.880 There was

00:13:35.700 this movie

00:13:36.260 that came

00:13:36.680 out around

00:13:37.020 ten years

00:13:37.560 ago.

00:13:39.320 There was

00:13:39.860 a kind

00:13:40.360 of spy

00:13:40.940 movie

00:13:41.340 about the

00:13:41.720 beginning

00:13:41.960 of the CIA

00:13:42.640 called

00:13:43.000 The Good

00:13:43.320 Shepherd.

00:13:44.340 And the

00:13:44.840 Matt Damon

00:13:45.420 character

00:13:45.960 was actually

00:13:46.540 talking with

00:13:47.400 this Joe

00:13:48.360 Pesci

00:13:48.780 character,

00:13:49.880 who was

00:13:50.180 this quintessential

00:13:51.480 Italian.

00:13:52.460 And he said,

00:13:52.860 you know,

00:13:53.040 we Italians,

00:13:53.920 we have our

00:13:54.480 food and

00:13:56.160 family,

00:13:56.980 and the

00:13:57.640 Jews,

00:13:58.080 they have

00:13:58.320 their religion,

00:13:59.620 and you

00:14:00.520 WASP,

00:14:01.300 what do you

00:14:01.660 have?

00:14:02.380 And he said,

00:14:02.980 you know,

00:14:03.160 we have the

00:14:03.660 United States

00:14:04.240 of America,

00:14:04.920 the rest

00:14:05.200 of you

00:14:05.420 people are

00:14:05.860 just visitors.

00:14:07.100 And it

00:14:07.420 was this,

00:14:08.080 you know,

00:14:08.420 kind of,

00:14:09.060 a certain

00:14:09.480 kind of WASP

00:14:10.360 feeling where,

00:14:11.720 you know,

00:14:11.940 the English

00:14:12.560 are almost

00:14:13.280 this,

00:14:14.660 there are

00:14:15.560 kind of

00:14:15.880 people without 0.96

00:14:17.140 that national

00:14:18.200 identity and

00:14:18.960 without certainly

00:14:19.940 a national

00:14:20.400 autonomy,

00:14:21.420 but then they

00:14:21.840 almost feel

00:14:22.460 like they're

00:14:23.220 the ones

00:14:23.840 who run

00:14:24.940 the show

00:14:25.360 in the UK,

00:14:25.980 or at the

00:14:26.200 very least

00:14:26.620 the UK

00:14:27.020 kind of

00:14:27.380 represents

00:14:27.820 them.

00:14:29.040 And so

00:14:29.780 anyway,

00:14:30.140 just to back

00:14:30.720 up again

00:14:31.260 to what I

00:14:31.580 was saying,

00:14:32.540 you know,

00:14:33.220 from one

00:14:33.780 perspective,

00:14:34.220 you could

00:14:34.580 say that

00:14:34.960 the Scots

00:14:35.600 are running

00:14:36.600 the English

00:14:37.360 because,

00:14:37.940 you know,

00:14:38.460 the Scottish

00:14:39.540 parliamentarians

00:14:40.360 have the

00:14:40.640 ability to

00:14:41.460 basically have

00:14:43.140 autonomy where

00:14:43.940 they determine

00:14:44.700 taxing and

00:14:45.780 spending issues

00:14:47.260 within their

00:14:47.780 own realm,

00:14:48.640 but then

00:14:48.960 they can

00:14:49.540 actually vote

00:14:50.460 on taxing

00:14:51.380 and spending

00:14:51.860 issues within

00:14:52.900 England.

00:14:54.080 So,

00:14:54.680 you know,

00:14:55.060 it's quite a

00:14:56.120 good deal.

00:14:57.420 So,

00:14:57.660 I mean,

00:14:58.080 I guess that...

00:14:58.760 There's not so much

00:14:59.360 taxing,

00:15:00.460 it's more like

00:15:01.140 spending.

00:15:01.640 Spending,

00:15:02.560 yeah.

00:15:03.000 Yeah.

00:15:04.080 Nevertheless,

00:15:04.860 do you think

00:15:05.820 that this is

00:15:06.280 going to...

00:15:06.720 I mean,

00:15:07.160 I guess there

00:15:07.640 could be a

00:15:08.180 couple ways

00:15:08.680 that this

00:15:08.900 could go.

00:15:09.460 I mean,

00:15:09.740 one outcome

00:15:11.260 of this

00:15:11.640 could be

00:15:12.020 that even

00:15:13.260 though the

00:15:13.660 vote was

00:15:14.140 fairly close,

00:15:15.920 that secession

00:15:17.060 is defeated,

00:15:18.700 that's a

00:15:19.280 bankrupt

00:15:19.720 ideology,

00:15:21.160 what have

00:15:21.480 you,

00:15:22.240 you know,

00:15:22.560 back to a

00:15:23.460 more greater

00:15:24.180 federal autonomy.

00:15:27.180 Or you

00:15:27.700 could say

00:15:28.080 that this

00:15:28.560 has kind

00:15:28.860 of opened

00:15:29.280 up a can

00:15:29.800 of worms

00:15:30.260 and that

00:15:30.980 there's

00:15:31.640 going to

00:15:31.860 be maybe

00:15:32.780 Welsh 0.92

00:15:33.200 autonomy,

00:15:33.800 there's

00:15:33.960 going to

00:15:34.060 be

00:15:34.220 English

00:15:34.580 autonomy

00:15:35.080 and so

00:15:36.160 on and so

00:15:36.440 forth.

00:15:36.660 What do

00:15:37.020 you think

00:15:37.280 will be

00:15:37.520 the outcome

00:15:38.520 of all

00:15:39.040 this?

00:15:40.440 Well,

00:15:40.760 the thing

00:15:41.280 is,

00:15:42.040 it hasn't

00:15:42.640 really been

00:15:43.120 defeated,

00:15:43.880 you know what

00:15:44.080 I mean?

00:15:44.260 That's the

00:15:44.680 thing.

00:15:45.760 I think

00:15:46.280 the plan

00:15:47.120 was to

00:15:47.780 defeat it

00:15:48.580 by a much

00:15:49.080 larger

00:15:49.580 margin.

00:15:51.180 And if

00:15:51.860 you had

00:15:52.640 say,

00:15:53.080 if it had

00:15:53.400 been like

00:15:53.660 70-30,

00:15:54.880 which was,

00:15:55.400 you know,

00:15:55.620 where the

00:15:57.540 opinion polls

00:15:58.120 were six

00:15:58.900 months ago,

00:15:59.800 then you

00:16:00.860 could say,

00:16:01.360 yeah,

00:16:01.480 we've killed 0.69

00:16:02.060 off.

00:16:02.860 But because

00:16:03.240 it's actually

00:16:04.080 quite close,

00:16:06.440 45 to 55

00:16:07.520 will be

00:16:08.040 considered very

00:16:08.660 close.

00:16:09.260 And especially

00:16:09.900 when you take

00:16:10.600 into account

00:16:12.060 all the other

00:16:12.720 kind of

00:16:13.180 distorting

00:16:14.560 factors.

00:16:15.180 I mean,

00:16:15.400 this was a

00:16:16.100 heavily distorted

00:16:17.120 vote for

00:16:18.360 no.

00:16:19.540 Like I

00:16:20.220 mentioned

00:16:20.600 already,

00:16:21.020 the media

00:16:21.920 was all on

00:16:22.920 one side,

00:16:23.440 except for

00:16:23.800 the Glasgow

00:16:24.520 Herald.

00:16:25.000 and you

00:16:28.140 had the

00:16:28.400 companies

00:16:28.700 threatening

00:16:29.060 to pull

00:16:29.560 out and

00:16:30.080 you had

00:16:30.420 the EU

00:16:31.480 saying,

00:16:31.960 no,

00:16:32.120 no,

00:16:32.320 Scotland,

00:16:32.640 you can't

00:16:33.000 come in

00:16:33.360 because the

00:16:35.160 EU member

00:16:36.180 states,

00:16:37.200 they were

00:16:37.780 very worried

00:16:38.400 about the

00:16:38.820 example that

00:16:39.600 would be

00:16:39.880 set,

00:16:40.280 especially

00:16:40.640 countries

00:16:40.960 like Spain,

00:16:41.940 which is

00:16:43.120 basically 1.00

00:16:43.720 shitting 0.99

00:16:44.100 itself about 0.99

00:16:44.780 what the

00:16:45.500 Catalans

00:16:46.000 will do.

00:16:47.380 So,

00:16:48.020 not only

00:16:49.060 that,

00:16:49.460 but then

00:16:49.700 you had

00:16:50.060 the last

00:16:51.000 moment,

00:16:51.600 you had

00:16:51.840 the

00:16:52.160 Westminster

00:16:53.060 establishment

00:16:54.140 sort of

00:16:55.340 jetting up

00:16:55.820 to the

00:16:56.020 country

00:16:56.380 and making

00:16:57.380 lots of

00:16:57.840 promises

00:16:58.220 about

00:16:58.620 additional

00:16:59.240 powers

00:16:59.780 and

00:17:00.020 taxation

00:17:00.600 powers

00:17:01.220 and

00:17:01.480 devomags.

00:17:03.140 So,

00:17:04.000 it's not

00:17:04.420 really a

00:17:05.560 kind of

00:17:05.780 convincing

00:17:06.360 electoral

00:17:07.620 victory for

00:17:08.400 the no

00:17:08.700 side.

00:17:09.680 So,

00:17:10.040 that just

00:17:10.460 allows

00:17:10.840 Scotland

00:17:11.280 and

00:17:11.820 Scottish

00:17:12.160 politicians

00:17:12.620 to keep

00:17:13.320 in a

00:17:14.520 way

00:17:14.760 kind of

00:17:15.220 blackmailing

00:17:15.800 Westminster

00:17:16.380 and threatening

00:17:16.980 trouble

00:17:17.460 and needing

00:17:19.300 to be

00:17:19.600 pacified.

00:17:20.800 And that,

00:17:21.540 of course,

00:17:21.840 opens up

00:17:23.480 an interesting

00:17:24.340 dynamic with

00:17:25.300 English voters

00:17:27.800 and how they

00:17:28.360 feel.

00:17:29.660 Because there

00:17:30.100 is a lot

00:17:30.420 of,

00:17:31.140 whether justified

00:17:32.420 or not,

00:17:32.940 I don't really

00:17:33.280 think it's

00:17:33.560 particularly

00:17:33.920 justified,

00:17:34.560 but whether

00:17:34.740 justified

00:17:35.140 or not,

00:17:35.640 there's a lot

00:17:36.240 of resentment

00:17:37.460 at what is

00:17:39.040 thought to be

00:17:40.080 sort of

00:17:41.700 special treatment

00:17:42.980 for Scotland.

00:17:44.780 Scotland is

00:17:45.560 seen as

00:17:46.800 having

00:17:48.320 certain

00:17:50.060 unfair

00:17:50.420 advantages

00:17:51.040 with

00:17:52.100 regard to

00:17:52.540 the rest

00:17:52.800 of the

00:17:52.980 United

00:17:53.180 Kingdom.

00:17:53.620 There's

00:17:54.160 a so-called

00:17:55.000 Barnet

00:17:55.580 formula

00:17:56.060 by which

00:17:57.460 more public

00:17:59.140 money is

00:17:59.780 spent in

00:18:00.420 Scotland.

00:18:02.420 And

00:18:02.660 there are

00:18:04.480 differences

00:18:05.080 for tuition

00:18:06.440 fees and

00:18:06.880 other things

00:18:07.840 which mean

00:18:08.840 that Scottish

00:18:09.440 people have

00:18:11.340 a lot of

00:18:11.660 advantages.

00:18:12.180 subsidies.

00:18:13.520 I think if

00:18:14.880 you had

00:18:15.220 the Barnet

00:18:15.740 formula over

00:18:16.640 50 years,

00:18:17.360 it's like

00:18:17.720 £80,000

00:18:18.380 per Scottish

00:18:21.320 person over

00:18:22.760 what the

00:18:23.420 average English

00:18:24.900 person gets.

00:18:26.520 And then if

00:18:26.840 you throw in

00:18:27.300 something like

00:18:27.720 tuition fees,

00:18:28.480 I think that's

00:18:28.920 something like

00:18:29.280 £27,000.

00:18:31.040 So just like

00:18:32.080 doing the

00:18:32.760 basic math,

00:18:33.860 you see that

00:18:34.680 the average

00:18:37.300 Scottish person

00:18:38.200 is subsidised

00:18:39.540 by more

00:18:40.560 than £100,000

00:18:41.420 during his

00:18:43.480 or her

00:18:43.780 lifetime relative

00:18:45.560 to the

00:18:46.040 average English

00:18:46.860 person.

00:18:50.140 So a lot

00:18:51.360 of that

00:18:51.580 rankles with

00:18:52.320 the English

00:18:52.720 and the

00:18:53.400 idea that

00:18:53.900 now Scotland

00:18:55.000 will be

00:18:55.520 granted

00:18:56.400 additional

00:18:56.920 powers,

00:18:58.160 that rankles

00:18:59.720 even more,

00:19:00.960 you see.

00:19:01.600 So there

00:19:03.200 is a sort

00:19:03.840 of very

00:19:04.120 interesting

00:19:04.640 thing happening

00:19:05.340 now which

00:19:06.440 is what

00:19:07.700 will happen

00:19:09.520 at the

00:19:10.560 election

00:19:11.720 going into

00:19:12.700 next year.

00:19:13.380 Now all

00:19:14.280 the promises

00:19:14.800 that Cameron

00:19:16.200 made, he

00:19:18.020 can't do

00:19:18.400 anything to

00:19:19.240 actually deliver

00:19:20.760 on now

00:19:21.500 because he

00:19:22.980 has a general

00:19:23.380 election to

00:19:24.160 fight.

00:19:26.440 But there's

00:19:28.440 going to be

00:19:28.840 some sort

00:19:29.260 of bill

00:19:29.720 providing

00:19:32.080 additional

00:19:32.720 powers for

00:19:33.340 the Scottish

00:19:33.840 Parliament.

00:19:34.900 But at the

00:19:35.360 same time

00:19:36.060 he's going

00:19:36.940 to have to

00:19:37.560 offer English

00:19:38.560 voters

00:19:38.940 something.

00:19:39.940 Right.

00:19:40.620 And then

00:19:41.200 this also

00:19:41.640 becomes very

00:19:42.380 awkward

00:19:43.000 because if

00:19:43.960 he,

00:19:44.720 one of the

00:19:45.860 ideas being

00:19:46.460 floated is

00:19:47.380 that Scottish

00:19:48.560 MPs won't

00:19:49.940 be allowed to

00:19:50.560 vote on

00:19:51.160 certain areas

00:19:52.520 of policy

00:19:53.040 that affect

00:19:53.980 England,

00:19:54.940 which are

00:19:56.220 already covered

00:19:56.900 by the

00:19:57.260 Scottish

00:19:57.500 Parliament

00:19:57.880 in Scotland.

00:19:58.480 So now

00:20:00.200 if you get

00:20:00.540 a Labour

00:20:01.020 government,

00:20:01.860 which there's

00:20:02.620 a very

00:20:02.820 high probability

00:20:04.600 that Cameron

00:20:06.280 will actually

00:20:06.900 lose the

00:20:07.560 election and

00:20:08.240 you'll get

00:20:08.680 a Labour

00:20:09.080 government.

00:20:10.500 If you do

00:20:11.360 get a Labour

00:20:11.820 government,

00:20:12.540 then they're

00:20:15.000 not going to

00:20:15.280 be very happy

00:20:15.860 with that kind

00:20:16.380 of arrangement

00:20:16.860 because a

00:20:17.460 Labour

00:20:17.720 government will

00:20:19.060 probably have

00:20:19.900 a UK

00:20:20.780 majority but

00:20:22.300 not an

00:20:22.800 English

00:20:23.240 majority.

00:20:23.820 So if

00:20:24.360 there's an

00:20:24.620 arrangement

00:20:25.020 that MPs

00:20:27.860 in Westminster,

00:20:30.160 the decisions

00:20:31.040 in Westminster

00:20:31.680 must exclude

00:20:32.580 Scottish MPs

00:20:33.760 if they only

00:20:34.180 affect England,

00:20:35.440 then they

00:20:36.600 won't be

00:20:36.880 allowed to

00:20:37.240 vote.

00:20:37.460 So you'll

00:20:37.720 have a

00:20:38.220 very kind

00:20:38.860 of almost

00:20:40.160 unworkable

00:20:40.900 situation in

00:20:42.120 many cases

00:20:43.040 because the

00:20:44.780 Labour

00:20:44.920 government will

00:20:45.300 have a piece

00:20:45.700 of legislation.

00:20:47.840 Now let's

00:20:48.220 just sort

00:20:49.040 of like see.

00:20:49.960 Now the

00:20:50.400 Scottish

00:20:50.820 Parliament

00:20:52.860 covers

00:20:53.520 certain

00:20:54.280 areas.

00:20:57.240 Let's

00:20:57.600 see.

00:20:57.860 There's

00:20:58.020 sort of

00:20:58.280 devolved

00:20:58.700 matters

00:20:59.080 and there's

00:20:59.580 reserve

00:21:00.000 matters.

00:21:00.640 Now the

00:21:00.940 devolved

00:21:01.500 matters

00:21:01.940 are matters

00:21:04.540 that the

00:21:04.880 Scottish

00:21:05.160 Parliament

00:21:05.600 decides on.

00:21:06.780 Reserve

00:21:07.220 matters

00:21:07.740 are,

00:21:08.480 you know,

00:21:08.920 that's

00:21:09.140 the UK

00:21:09.540 Parliament.

00:21:10.160 So for

00:21:10.360 example,

00:21:10.880 devolved

00:21:11.280 matters

00:21:11.700 are

00:21:12.240 things

00:21:12.820 like

00:21:13.200 agriculture,

00:21:14.680 forestry

00:21:15.720 and fisheries,

00:21:16.580 education

00:21:17.080 and training,

00:21:17.840 environment,

00:21:18.600 health

00:21:18.820 and

00:21:19.020 social

00:21:19.320 services,

00:21:20.100 housing,

00:21:21.240 etc.

00:21:21.920 several

00:21:22.360 others.

00:21:22.740 Reserved

00:21:23.940 matters

00:21:24.580 are things

00:21:24.960 like

00:21:25.320 benefits

00:21:26.320 and social

00:21:26.820 security,

00:21:28.000 immigration,

00:21:28.680 defence,

00:21:29.280 foreign policy,

00:21:30.260 employment,

00:21:31.340 etc.

00:21:32.320 etc.

00:21:32.640 Now if

00:21:33.540 you had

00:21:34.720 a Labour

00:21:35.700 government

00:21:36.340 after the

00:21:38.200 2015

00:21:38.720 election

00:21:39.380 and they

00:21:40.720 were going

00:21:40.960 to pass

00:21:41.640 a law

00:21:42.060 in England,

00:21:42.920 in Westminster

00:21:43.640 on agriculture

00:21:45.100 for whatever

00:21:45.860 reason,

00:21:47.080 Scottish

00:21:47.580 MPs

00:21:48.700 under the

00:21:49.960 new

00:21:50.180 way of

00:21:50.820 thinking,

00:21:51.480 Scottish

00:21:51.800 MPs

00:21:52.380 would

00:21:52.680 be

00:21:53.000 excluded

00:21:53.700 from

00:21:54.620 voting

00:21:55.000 on that

00:21:55.360 because

00:21:55.760 Scotland

00:21:56.240 already

00:21:56.560 controls

00:21:57.040 its own

00:21:57.340 agricultural

00:21:57.780 policy.

00:21:58.880 So it would

00:21:59.100 be unfair

00:21:59.420 to have

00:21:59.940 Scottish

00:22:01.480 MPs

00:22:02.500 voting on

00:22:04.280 England's 0.67

00:22:04.960 agricultural

00:22:05.460 policy.

00:22:06.120 This is

00:22:06.380 the famous

00:22:07.280 West Lothian

00:22:08.320 question as

00:22:09.060 it's known.

00:22:10.660 And so

00:22:10.940 then you'd

00:22:11.600 have a Labour

00:22:12.000 government

00:22:12.420 which has

00:22:12.940 a national

00:22:13.600 UK

00:22:13.980 majority

00:22:14.620 unable

00:22:15.520 to vote

00:22:16.660 on

00:22:17.000 agriculture

00:22:18.000 in England.

00:22:18.980 So you

00:22:19.300 see how

00:22:19.980 this

00:22:20.640 whole

00:22:22.060 process

00:22:22.940 of

00:22:23.640 kind of

00:22:24.240 bribing

00:22:25.020 the

00:22:25.300 Scottish

00:22:25.800 voters

00:22:26.780 with

00:22:27.120 additional

00:22:27.820 powers

00:22:28.640 just

00:22:29.660 creates

00:22:30.140 more

00:22:30.440 contradictions

00:22:31.160 in the

00:22:31.520 system.

00:22:32.340 Yes.

00:22:33.160 Yeah,

00:22:33.520 exactly,

00:22:34.240 that's what

00:22:34.560 I was

00:22:34.760 saying.

00:22:35.080 I mean,

00:22:35.280 I don't

00:22:35.780 know

00:22:36.880 where

00:22:37.500 exactly

00:22:38.040 it will

00:22:38.440 lead.

00:22:39.720 I think

00:22:40.440 a lot

00:22:40.700 of people

00:22:41.200 on our

00:22:42.260 side

00:22:42.660 got

00:22:42.960 excited

00:22:43.560 about

00:22:44.280 ethno-nationalism

00:22:46.060 or this

00:22:46.680 is going

00:22:46.940 to be

00:22:47.100 the new

00:22:47.400 normal

00:22:47.900 as

00:22:48.200 ethno-nationalism.

00:22:49.480 I wasn't

00:22:50.680 that excited

00:22:51.660 about it

00:22:52.320 at all.

00:22:53.680 I just

00:22:54.520 find it,

00:22:55.240 I don't

00:22:55.960 think

00:22:56.180 ethno-nationalism

00:22:57.060 is really

00:22:57.420 a very,

00:22:58.980 at least

00:22:59.440 politically

00:22:59.840 speaking,

00:23:00.460 is a

00:23:00.880 positive

00:23:01.320 thing

00:23:01.620 that we

00:23:01.820 should

00:23:01.940 be

00:23:02.060 putting

00:23:02.240 forth.

00:23:02.620 But again,

00:23:03.040 it just

00:23:03.600 seems

00:23:03.820 to be

00:23:04.080 an

00:23:04.180 ethno-nationalism

00:23:05.080 of horse

00:23:06.920 trading

00:23:07.320 and worrying

00:23:09.060 about who

00:23:09.520 gets to

00:23:10.200 spend

00:23:11.600 this money

00:23:12.260 on what

00:23:13.120 and what

00:23:14.080 have you.

00:23:14.840 It's not

00:23:15.080 a real

00:23:16.100 sense of

00:23:17.480 traditional

00:23:18.120 nationalism.

00:23:18.860 It's because

00:23:19.780 they're still

00:23:20.380 joined together.

00:23:22.200 You have

00:23:22.560 these two

00:23:23.000 things that

00:23:23.400 don't really

00:23:23.780 fit together,

00:23:25.220 which are

00:23:25.500 politically

00:23:26.260 quite distinct

00:23:27.100 cultures now.

00:23:28.420 The ironic

00:23:29.360 thing is

00:23:30.000 the only way

00:23:30.620 Scottish

00:23:31.200 political

00:23:32.100 culture

00:23:32.740 can start

00:23:33.760 to

00:23:34.500 veer

00:23:37.440 towards

00:23:37.860 English

00:23:38.160 political

00:23:38.600 culture

00:23:39.100 would be

00:23:39.900 if the

00:23:40.260 country

00:23:40.500 was

00:23:40.720 independent.

00:23:41.960 By

00:23:42.200 remaining

00:23:42.860 part of

00:23:43.340 the

00:23:43.440 United

00:23:43.680 Kingdom,

00:23:44.200 Scottish

00:23:44.440 political

00:23:44.760 culture

00:23:45.140 is doomed

00:23:46.980 to always

00:23:47.580 be

00:23:47.840 extremely

00:23:48.480 different

00:23:48.940 from

00:23:49.120 English

00:23:49.380 political

00:23:49.720 culture.

00:23:51.060 It's a built-in

00:23:53.220 paradox.

00:23:54.760 That's an

00:23:55.520 interesting way

00:23:56.120 to think of it.

00:23:56.660 I had really

00:23:57.180 not thought of it

00:23:57.800 that way,

00:23:58.240 but I think

00:23:58.720 you're probably

00:23:59.700 right.

00:24:01.400 Do you think

00:24:02.260 that also,

00:24:04.200 I guess I'm

00:24:06.180 going to move

00:24:07.100 away from

00:24:07.820 the timely

00:24:09.780 matters and

00:24:11.040 start to

00:24:11.460 talk about

00:24:11.860 bigger

00:24:12.320 questions

00:24:13.020 that this

00:24:14.100 raises.

00:24:14.780 Do you

00:24:15.640 think that

00:24:17.000 proportional

00:24:17.940 democracy

00:24:18.880 is really

00:24:19.720 a totally

00:24:20.920 outmoded

00:24:22.160 notion in

00:24:23.000 the first

00:24:23.380 place?

00:24:24.160 I mentioned

00:24:25.620 at the very

00:24:25.960 beginning in

00:24:26.400 this program

00:24:26.860 that you're

00:24:29.040 a wandering

00:24:29.620 Scott.

00:24:31.400 You're a

00:24:32.240 rootless

00:24:32.700 Scott.

00:24:33.680 In exile,

00:24:35.680 you go and

00:24:36.400 subvert other

00:24:37.360 societies or

00:24:38.680 something like

00:24:39.200 that.

00:24:40.380 You were not

00:24:41.800 able to vote

00:24:42.900 in this

00:24:43.180 election despite

00:24:43.920 the fact that

00:24:44.640 you have a

00:24:46.100 tremendous family

00:24:47.540 history in

00:24:48.880 Scotland.

00:24:50.180 Some non-white 0.50

00:24:51.460 immigrant who

00:24:52.640 has lived in

00:24:53.800 Scotland for

00:24:54.380 six months was

00:24:55.760 able to vote

00:24:56.680 in this election.

00:24:57.800 I don't even

00:24:58.280 know how.

00:24:59.680 I've seen some

00:25:00.680 geographic

00:25:01.200 backgrounds.

00:25:01.820 I don't even

00:25:02.180 know how a

00:25:03.680 lot of these

00:25:04.080 new immigrants

00:25:04.600 did vote.

00:25:05.280 Perhaps they

00:25:05.880 voted yes just 1.00

00:25:07.840 to say fuck 1.00

00:25:08.840 you to 1.00

00:25:09.540 England or

00:25:10.380 something.

00:25:10.960 You never

00:25:11.300 know.

00:25:12.360 But at the

00:25:13.380 same time,

00:25:14.260 it is kind

00:25:15.560 of meaningless.

00:25:16.120 Also, we

00:25:16.500 live in a

00:25:16.840 world of

00:25:17.520 everyone's,

00:25:19.860 well, I

00:25:20.300 would say

00:25:20.560 Europeans are

00:25:21.360 coming together.

00:25:22.400 When I look

00:25:23.400 at Salmond,

00:25:26.020 I don't see

00:25:27.060 some foreign

00:25:28.460 person who

00:25:29.620 is just

00:25:30.420 totally different

00:25:31.300 than I am.

00:25:32.000 Like I might

00:25:32.720 if I saw a

00:25:34.060 Chinese politician.

00:25:35.440 I might see

00:25:36.760 someone who

00:25:37.080 is just

00:25:37.360 radically

00:25:37.800 different than

00:25:38.460 I am.

00:25:39.040 Or David

00:25:39.340 Milliband.

00:25:40.220 Or David

00:25:40.940 Milliband.

00:25:43.400 Or Joseph

00:25:44.340 Lieberman or

00:25:47.700 something.

00:25:48.020 Yeah, these

00:25:49.020 people are

00:25:49.460 other.

00:25:50.580 But I

00:25:50.820 don't see,

00:25:51.400 I see

00:25:51.900 Salmond as,

00:25:53.080 you know,

00:25:53.700 I probably

00:25:54.480 don't agree

00:25:55.160 with Salmond

00:25:56.220 on, you

00:25:57.080 know,

00:25:57.780 spending and

00:25:59.160 taxing or

00:25:59.900 whatever,

00:26:00.560 political issues,

00:26:01.180 but who

00:26:01.440 cares?

00:26:02.200 That stuff's

00:26:02.600 not important

00:26:03.000 in any ways.

00:26:03.480 I see him

00:26:04.700 as just a

00:26:05.220 person who

00:26:06.060 is like

00:26:06.500 me, and

00:26:07.680 the idea

00:26:08.580 that Scotland

00:26:09.580 just needs...

00:26:09.960 I think you're

00:26:10.780 slightly better

00:26:11.380 looking now,

00:26:12.000 Richard.

00:26:14.500 Thank you,

00:26:15.160 Colin.

00:26:18.360 That's true.

00:26:20.560 Objectively

00:26:21.000 speaking, that's

00:26:21.700 probably true.

00:26:22.780 But, you

00:26:23.280 know, yeah,

00:26:24.520 he's just

00:26:25.300 like me.

00:26:26.600 And so,

00:26:28.040 I don't know,

00:26:28.500 I mean, don't

00:26:28.940 you think, I

00:26:29.620 guess what I

00:26:29.980 was getting

00:26:30.300 at, just to

00:26:30.920 summarize,

00:26:31.440 proportional

00:26:33.320 democracy seems

00:26:34.660 to be outmoded

00:26:36.100 on a couple

00:26:36.540 of different

00:26:36.840 levels.

00:26:37.380 A, we're

00:26:38.120 moving around

00:26:38.800 a lot, we

00:26:39.540 go to

00:26:40.780 different places,

00:26:42.240 just modern

00:26:43.260 capitalism makes

00:26:44.340 people move

00:26:45.240 around, people

00:26:45.880 aren't as rooted

00:26:46.860 in one locale,

00:26:48.720 and maybe that's

00:26:49.240 a good thing,

00:26:49.680 maybe that's a

00:26:50.040 bad thing, but

00:26:50.580 it just is.

00:26:52.140 And so, this

00:26:52.840 idea that we

00:26:53.640 have to have a

00:26:54.440 local representative,

00:26:55.720 that he represents

00:26:56.660 us, our

00:26:57.440 interests, I

00:26:58.400 think that is a

00:26:59.580 little bit outmoded,

00:27:00.400 and, you

00:27:01.340 know, as I

00:27:01.920 was getting,

00:27:02.520 again, we just

00:27:03.680 seem to be coming

00:27:04.640 together, there

00:27:05.560 seem to be all

00:27:06.300 these forces that

00:27:07.200 are pushing us

00:27:07.760 together, and

00:27:09.040 this notion that

00:27:10.860 you need, you

00:27:12.400 know, Scotland

00:27:13.000 just needs to be

00:27:14.080 independent, coming

00:27:15.680 from my

00:27:16.240 perspective, I'm

00:27:17.320 again, I don't

00:27:17.980 live there, I'm

00:27:18.420 not a Scot, and

00:27:19.120 I'm putting aside

00:27:19.960 some geopolitical

00:27:21.560 things like this

00:27:22.760 could weaken

00:27:23.440 this, you

00:27:24.800 know, horrible

00:27:25.380 unipolar world of

00:27:27.520 Washington and

00:27:28.500 NATO that we

00:27:29.000 live under.

00:27:29.420 I'm putting

00:27:30.140 that aside, and

00:27:31.240 just saying, you

00:27:32.000 know, what is

00:27:32.800 this in itself, and

00:27:34.380 it just strikes

00:27:35.260 me as, Scottish

00:27:37.080 nationalism strikes

00:27:37.960 me as meaningless, to

00:27:39.200 be as blunt as I

00:27:42.680 can, it just

00:27:43.300 strikes me as a

00:27:44.640 kind of throwback

00:27:45.840 notion that isn't

00:27:48.460 really relevant.

00:27:49.800 But anyway, so

00:27:50.280 that's, what do you

00:27:51.880 think about that

00:27:52.660 perspective?

00:27:54.140 Well, it's not

00:27:54.700 like everybody's

00:27:55.560 always on the move

00:27:56.280 or living overseas

00:27:57.400 like I am, and

00:27:58.400 most people are, I

00:28:01.280 mean, Scotland is

00:28:02.660 one of the

00:28:03.720 countries that is

00:28:04.700 sort of most

00:28:05.620 known for, you

00:28:07.440 know, people

00:28:07.960 leaving and going

00:28:09.180 out into the

00:28:09.840 world and making a

00:28:10.840 career elsewhere, and

00:28:12.020 certainly been the

00:28:13.040 case with my

00:28:14.820 family, with their

00:28:15.740 various members in

00:28:17.600 Florida and Spain

00:28:19.500 and China and, you

00:28:21.660 know, elsewhere.

00:28:22.640 Wow.

00:28:23.760 Yeah.

00:28:23.980 Because you, and

00:28:24.860 you also grew up in

00:28:25.780 South Africa for a

00:28:26.860 time as well.

00:28:27.720 That's right, yeah.

00:28:28.680 So I could have, I

00:28:30.200 could have ended up

00:28:30.780 there, you know.

00:28:31.240 So you, you guys

00:28:31.980 have just, yeah, you've

00:28:32.880 got, yeah, you're

00:28:33.680 really like the

00:28:34.240 Rothschild family or

00:28:35.460 something.

00:28:35.760 You've got a little,

00:28:36.800 you've got a little.

00:28:37.800 Well, I don't have

00:28:38.840 their money, but some

00:28:40.820 of us might, but

00:28:41.620 you've got a man in

00:28:43.120 China and a man in 0.96

00:28:44.060 Tokyo.

00:28:45.680 Yeah, but we don't

00:28:46.580 really synchronize things

00:28:48.020 as well as the

00:28:48.500 Rothschilds do, so.

00:28:49.580 But yeah, it's just

00:28:52.920 that Scotland is kind

00:28:53.860 of notorious, well, I

00:28:55.400 don't know if

00:28:55.680 notorious or famous,

00:28:56.840 famous or notorious

00:28:57.660 for that kind of

00:28:59.340 tendency.

00:29:00.580 So, yeah, Scotland's

00:29:01.760 one of the most kind

00:29:03.400 of rootless sort of

00:29:05.760 nationalities in a

00:29:06.880 way.

00:29:07.940 There is a sort of

00:29:09.860 similarity to the

00:29:11.600 Jews in many ways

00:29:12.700 amongst the Scots.

00:29:14.500 They tend to, you

00:29:16.460 know, sort of blend

00:29:17.200 in and sort of, you

00:29:19.220 know, colonize

00:29:21.140 certain other bigger

00:29:22.080 societies in various

00:29:23.400 ways.

00:29:24.340 You see a lot of

00:29:24.940 that in places like

00:29:25.700 London and Hong

00:29:26.480 Kong and, you

00:29:27.500 know, elsewhere.

00:29:29.000 But I do think that

00:29:31.020 despite all that, most

00:29:32.180 people do tend to

00:29:33.380 kind of, they're born

00:29:34.600 and they kind of grow

00:29:35.360 up in the same area

00:29:37.240 and they tend to

00:29:37.820 marry somebody from

00:29:39.180 the, you know, they

00:29:40.400 met in high school

00:29:41.140 or whatever.

00:29:41.520 So, I still think the

00:29:45.640 fabric of life still

00:29:47.460 exists on a kind of

00:29:48.660 national basis for

00:29:50.040 most people and

00:29:51.620 therefore I do think

00:29:52.600 that, you know, these

00:29:53.500 forms of nationalism

00:29:54.460 are important.

00:29:56.220 I think, you know, I

00:30:00.300 think the problem is

00:30:02.460 if you have too many

00:30:03.800 kind of sort of

00:30:05.800 nationalisms rising up

00:30:07.240 in Europe and then

00:30:08.120 they all start

00:30:08.720 quibbling about little

00:30:09.820 things and they, I

00:30:11.200 mean, for example, in

00:30:12.220 the case of England

00:30:13.260 and Scotland, you

00:30:14.160 know, we could start

00:30:15.040 getting all shirty

00:30:16.740 about Beric and we

00:30:18.580 can say that Beric

00:30:19.240 belongs in Scotland

00:30:20.140 and it's not part,

00:30:20.980 it shouldn't be part

00:30:21.460 of England and then

00:30:22.820 it's much worse on the

00:30:24.180 continent where you

00:30:24.820 have parties like

00:30:25.840 Jobbik who basically 1.00

00:30:26.980 want to take back

00:30:28.700 Transylvania and bits

00:30:30.280 of the Ukraine and

00:30:31.380 half of Slovakia and

00:30:33.280 I mean, so all that

00:30:34.820 kind of petty

00:30:35.420 nationalism is definitely

00:30:37.780 a danger and

00:30:39.820 something that has

00:30:40.720 to be really, you

00:30:41.820 know, considered and

00:30:42.660 countered by this

00:30:45.240 sort of alternative

00:30:46.480 right movement.

00:30:48.560 But I think there's

00:30:51.520 good nationalism and

00:30:52.440 bad nationalism.

00:30:53.920 I wouldn't write

00:30:54.700 nationalism off

00:30:55.640 entirely and in the

00:30:58.000 same way I wouldn't

00:30:59.180 entirely write off,

00:31:00.420 you know, democracy.

00:31:02.080 You know, I think

00:31:02.560 most people, they 0.71

00:31:06.380 tend to have a

00:31:07.360 certain degree of

00:31:08.000 common sense and

00:31:08.980 they recognize

00:31:10.820 their interests and

00:31:12.980 so, yes, that can

00:31:15.660 be subverted in lots

00:31:16.760 of ways as we

00:31:17.640 constantly see.

00:31:19.160 But I think if you

00:31:20.980 kind of like purify

00:31:22.100 things, for example,

00:31:23.380 in the case of the

00:31:23.940 United Kingdom, if

00:31:24.760 you did separate out

00:31:26.680 the Scots from the 0.99

00:31:27.920 English, then the

00:31:28.940 Scots would be able

00:31:29.500 to discover a much

00:31:30.300 more authentic sense of

00:31:31.920 who they are and the

00:31:33.120 English likewise.

00:31:33.900 the United Kingdom

00:31:37.660 is one of these

00:31:38.440 kind of like, it's

00:31:40.140 sort of like a mini

00:31:41.380 imperium.

00:31:43.680 It's still an empire

00:31:45.000 and because it's an

00:31:46.960 empire, it involves,

00:31:48.300 it has a kind of

00:31:49.060 ruling elite of sorts

00:31:51.220 or several kind of

00:31:52.300 ruling elites and

00:31:53.520 then it has all these

00:31:55.080 kind of groups that

00:31:55.840 have to be kind of

00:31:56.720 placated and, you

00:31:58.480 know, and so it sets

00:31:59.320 up all sorts of like

00:32:00.520 dirty deals and sort

00:32:03.620 of, you know,

00:32:04.760 counterbalancing this

00:32:06.300 with that and so you

00:32:07.540 end up, it's like

00:32:10.560 American democracy is

00:32:12.120 a bit like that as

00:32:12.800 well, you know, you

00:32:13.300 have to build the

00:32:13.960 coalition and so you

00:32:14.940 have to give everybody

00:32:16.480 something which means

00:32:18.240 you give everybody

00:32:18.860 nothing finally.

00:32:20.280 Yeah.

00:32:21.140 So I think if you get

00:32:22.980 away to, if you get

00:32:24.480 away from that and

00:32:25.260 you're able to kind of

00:32:26.260 create a sort of a

00:32:30.060 more organic community

00:32:31.520 then, you know, in

00:32:33.720 theory that kind of

00:32:35.140 community should start

00:32:36.040 to behave in a more

00:32:38.680 directly representational

00:32:40.300 way and express their

00:32:41.640 interest, their own

00:32:42.240 interests.

00:32:42.800 But multiculturalism,

00:32:45.080 globalism, the way we

00:32:46.520 kind of interconnect the

00:32:47.960 world really cuts across

00:32:49.600 that.

00:32:50.220 So, you know, so

00:32:52.340 democracy requires

00:32:53.880 nationalism.

00:32:54.260 You can't have

00:32:55.660 democracy without

00:32:57.420 nationalism.

00:32:59.840 Yeah, I agree.

00:33:00.980 I agree.

00:33:01.420 And I just, I think in

00:33:03.600 a way some of these

00:33:04.420 things are being

00:33:05.820 outmoded.

00:33:07.380 And again, I don't

00:33:08.060 have just one answer

00:33:09.460 like this is what we

00:33:10.260 need.

00:33:10.500 But I think it is

00:33:11.720 clear that we need

00:33:12.840 another political

00:33:14.560 philosophy, you know,

00:33:16.280 a fourth political

00:33:17.280 theory or something.

00:33:18.200 There has to be

00:33:19.120 something new that

00:33:21.220 isn't just a throwback

00:33:22.520 to something, you

00:33:23.760 know, before the

00:33:24.600 Second World War or

00:33:25.720 something.

00:33:27.460 In a way, ethno-

00:33:28.280 nationalism is not

00:33:29.940 new at all.

00:33:30.660 It's almost a 19th

00:33:31.700 century romantic

00:33:32.920 conception.

00:33:34.600 But we need

00:33:35.800 something different

00:33:37.560 that reflects these

00:33:38.860 realities.

00:33:40.660 And, yeah, that

00:33:41.280 avoids certainly

00:33:42.000 these pitfalls of

00:33:44.480 petty nationalism.

00:33:45.260 You're not advocating

00:33:46.740 the Russian model

00:33:48.220 here, are you?

00:33:50.160 An imperial model?

00:33:51.700 Well, maybe that is

00:33:52.420 what we need.

00:33:53.220 There's a sort of

00:33:53.740 Russian multiculturalism,

00:33:55.540 isn't it?

00:33:56.040 You know, the...

00:33:56.900 Oh, yeah.

00:33:57.300 You saw it in the

00:33:57.960 Soviet Union, but you 0.99

00:33:58.700 see it beforehand.

00:33:59.760 I mean, there's a

00:34:00.380 multiculturalism to all

00:34:01.540 these empires.

00:34:02.160 There's a multiculturalism

00:34:03.420 to the Austro-Hungarian

00:34:04.740 empire.

00:34:05.740 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:06.400 And in a way, you

00:34:08.320 have also this dynamic

00:34:11.100 that I was mentioning

00:34:11.920 before of the, let's

00:34:14.580 say, the host ethnicity

00:34:16.100 feeling like they have

00:34:18.340 the most invested in

00:34:19.660 the empire, but then

00:34:20.580 also, in a way, being

00:34:21.880 abused by the empire.

00:34:23.220 And I think that clearly

00:34:24.340 goes to, for white 0.96

00:34:26.440 Americans, particularly

00:34:27.780 southern white

00:34:28.640 Americans, who kind of 0.56

00:34:29.680 feel like, you know,

00:34:30.920 when you wave the flag

00:34:32.220 or, you know, put it up

00:34:34.020 in your white picket

00:34:35.800 fence, you know,

00:34:36.380 yard, oh, you know,

00:34:38.100 that American flag,

00:34:38.980 that is you.

00:34:40.420 And, you know,

00:34:41.100 America, we are the

00:34:42.040 greatest, we are

00:34:43.000 America, blah, blah,

00:34:43.880 blah.

00:34:45.000 We love the soldiers,

00:34:46.740 but in a way, it's

00:34:48.360 white southerners and

00:34:50.660 white people in general 0.98

00:34:51.920 who are most abused by 0.92

00:34:53.560 the regime, and yet

00:34:55.120 they're the ones who

00:34:55.880 paradoxically love it

00:34:57.460 the most.

00:34:57.880 You can kind of see

00:34:58.440 that with, say, the

00:34:59.000 English and the UK,

00:35:00.960 and you can see that

00:35:02.080 even with Germans in 0.98

00:35:03.100 the Austro-Hungarian

00:35:03.680 empire.

00:35:04.780 There was a kind of

00:35:05.500 multiculturalism that

00:35:06.740 was not really

00:35:07.860 serving them, and yet

00:35:09.240 they were the ones

00:35:09.880 waving the flag, you

00:35:12.500 know, for the

00:35:13.140 emperors.

00:35:16.600 So, yeah, there's

00:35:17.520 just a strange thing,

00:35:19.220 and you can also see

00:35:19.960 that certainly in the

00:35:21.580 Soviet Union and the

00:35:22.600 Russian empire with the 0.97

00:35:23.920 Russian people.

00:35:25.000 So, I don't know,

00:35:25.720 maybe we actually do

00:35:26.860 need a kind of, if we're

00:35:29.020 at a foreign, I mean, 0.87

00:35:29.600 again, this is ridiculous

00:35:31.960 speculation that I'm

00:35:33.180 engaging in, but maybe

00:35:34.580 if we, in terms of the

00:35:35.840 future, we do need to

00:35:37.060 form a certain kind of

00:35:38.840 cosmopolitan multiculturalism

00:35:41.840 within a European

00:35:43.460 empire.

00:35:44.280 I mean, maybe that is

00:35:45.220 what we need, actually.

00:35:47.680 Yeah, then that means

00:35:49.580 the Germans would 0.98

00:35:50.300 basically run Europe,

00:35:51.660 doesn't it?

00:35:52.440 That sounds like a good

00:35:53.400 idea to me.

00:35:54.000 Yeah, I mean, I know

00:36:02.040 what you mean, obviously.

00:36:03.500 I do think, you know,

00:36:05.120 Scotland could work with

00:36:07.820 Germany better than we 0.97

00:36:09.100 could with England.

00:36:11.840 But if the Germans were 0.89

00:36:13.220 running Europe, I think

00:36:13.940 you'd have a problem with

00:36:14.640 the southern Europeans.

00:36:17.400 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:18.600 There is a kind of basic

00:36:22.580 difference, I think,

00:36:24.640 between northern Europe

00:36:25.560 and southern Europe.

00:36:27.880 Oh, yes.

00:36:29.140 So you might have to

00:36:30.160 have a kind of like a

00:36:32.000 southern European

00:36:32.880 imperium and a northern

00:36:34.400 European imperium.

00:36:36.540 Yeah, no, we see that

00:36:37.580 with the euro, because

00:36:38.640 in a way, you know,

00:36:40.500 Germany, which is a,

00:36:42.340 you know, highly

00:36:43.360 productive society,

00:36:45.080 they like a weaker

00:36:46.400 currency so that they

00:36:47.560 could sell their goods

00:36:48.620 to other people.

00:36:50.000 And Germany, I mean,

00:36:50.640 they're still making

00:36:51.440 cars, they're still

00:36:52.460 making microphones and

00:36:54.320 all, you know, all this

00:36:55.640 kind of highly skilled

00:36:58.000 industrial engineering.

00:36:59.820 So they kind of like a

00:37:01.180 little bit of weakness.

00:37:02.260 I mean, obviously,

00:37:03.300 Germans have a fear of

00:37:04.360 hyperinflation and things

00:37:05.500 like that, but they like

00:37:06.680 a little bit of weakness

00:37:07.500 so that it feels cheaper

00:37:09.480 so the world can buy

00:37:10.220 their goods.

00:37:11.460 But then, you know,

00:37:13.160 the southern Europeans,

00:37:14.660 they liked the idea of

00:37:15.900 this strong currency,

00:37:16.960 like a German currency,

00:37:18.180 so that they could

00:37:18.900 borrow on it.

00:37:20.020 It's like, oh, wow,

00:37:21.040 look.

00:37:21.260 Yeah, so you have a

00:37:22.940 kind of distorted

00:37:24.000 symbiosis between the

00:37:25.700 two things.

00:37:26.380 Yeah, but then they also

00:37:27.800 like a weak currency,

00:37:29.080 I mean, you know,

00:37:29.600 because for tourism

00:37:30.280 or something like that.

00:37:31.060 So anyway, yeah,

00:37:31.940 there's just a lot of

00:37:32.920 weird, you know,

00:37:34.300 things pushing in

00:37:35.720 different directions.

00:37:37.500 And maybe, I don't know,

00:37:39.440 I mean, maybe,

00:37:40.460 I think it can work,

00:37:42.240 but maybe they're just,

00:37:44.300 it's always going to be

00:37:45.840 hard.

00:37:46.240 I mean, because we just

00:37:46.840 have so much,

00:37:47.580 when we say, like,

00:37:48.980 I'm a white nationalist

00:37:50.080 or whatever,

00:37:51.100 you know,

00:37:51.320 to a degree,

00:37:53.520 it, you know,

00:37:54.320 it's, you know,

00:37:54.840 what white people

00:37:55.920 are you talking about?

00:37:57.260 You know?

00:37:57.700 Yeah.

00:37:58.400 Are you talking about,

00:37:59.260 you know,

00:37:59.620 American Southerners

00:38:00.820 or the English

00:38:01.660 or the Italians 0.99

00:38:02.540 or Spanish,

00:38:04.160 Russians,

00:38:04.780 you know,

00:38:05.060 the Scandinavian?

00:38:06.160 Yeah,

00:38:06.600 the problem with

00:38:07.020 being white nationalist

00:38:09.860 is that nobody's

00:38:12.120 more diverse

00:38:13.420 than white.

00:38:14.160 And if you think

00:38:15.840 about it,

00:38:16.180 the white bell curve,

00:38:17.360 it's more like a walk,

00:38:18.420 isn't it,

00:38:18.820 rather than a proper bell.

00:38:21.940 Yes, yeah.

00:38:23.080 And it, yeah,

00:38:24.260 well, I was going

00:38:25.120 to say something.

00:38:25.760 It might actually be

00:38:26.780 turning into kind of

00:38:27.540 two bell curves.

00:38:29.020 Well, I won't go into that.

00:38:30.960 But, yeah,

00:38:31.420 there is a lot

00:38:32.160 because of assorted

00:38:33.080 of mating.

00:38:34.880 We're dividing.

00:38:35.820 Yeah, no, I agree.

00:38:36.680 I mean, maybe

00:38:37.120 uniting the white race 0.53

00:38:39.680 is such a difficult project.

00:38:41.120 It just shouldn't

00:38:41.680 even be attempted.

00:38:42.400 Yeah, I think

00:38:45.040 petty nationalism

00:38:45.760 is the way to go

00:38:46.960 for the time.

00:38:47.680 Yeah, yeah, yes.

00:38:48.740 Up with petty nationalism.

00:38:50.760 Up with a little niche

00:38:51.660 and then start

00:38:53.460 looking around

00:38:54.120 and thinking

00:38:54.560 how you can

00:38:55.200 sort of cooperate

00:38:56.040 with your neighbors.

00:38:57.000 Yeah, no, no,

00:38:57.920 you might be right.

00:38:58.900 I mean, I obviously,

00:39:00.360 I'm on the other side

00:39:01.320 of that argument,

00:39:02.100 but I definitely

00:39:03.240 see the point.

00:39:06.400 You know,

00:39:06.820 but anyway.

00:39:09.300 I think that's what

00:39:09.900 America was originally 0.73

00:39:10.920 for, wasn't it?

00:39:11.880 To kind of bring

00:39:12.500 the white race together, 1.00

00:39:13.740 but they fucked 0.99

00:39:15.500 that up somehow.

00:39:17.140 Well, but they

00:39:17.740 kind of achieved it

00:39:18.900 in a way.

00:39:19.520 I mean,

00:39:20.660 because I agree.

00:39:21.920 I mean,

00:39:22.060 America was this

00:39:22.680 big frontier

00:39:23.440 and it was just this,

00:39:25.400 there was a kind of

00:39:26.820 natural equality

00:39:29.120 to America

00:39:29.840 because there was

00:39:31.240 a lot of space,

00:39:32.160 there was a lot of room.

00:39:32.980 You could kind of

00:39:33.660 do your own thing

00:39:35.100 and you didn't

00:39:36.440 really have to

00:39:37.140 even cooperate

00:39:37.780 with others.

00:39:39.820 But, you know,

00:39:40.920 I think America

00:39:42.060 has achieved

00:39:43.340 the erasure

00:39:45.200 of,

00:39:46.420 or the evaporation

00:39:47.420 of ethnicity

00:39:48.640 more than any

00:39:49.740 other place.

00:39:50.960 Yeah.

00:39:51.540 And, you know,

00:39:52.340 because, you know,

00:39:53.020 I think I mentioned

00:39:53.860 this earlier,

00:39:54.540 I mean,

00:39:54.840 for now to be,

00:39:56.460 certainly at one point

00:39:57.940 there was a

00:39:58.540 Irish wasp divide

00:40:00.100 and all that

00:40:00.840 kind of stuff.

00:40:01.900 I mean,

00:40:02.360 again,

00:40:03.460 I,

00:40:04.460 to be Irish

00:40:05.240 nationalism

00:40:05.940 does not extend

00:40:07.200 beyond a St. Patrick's

00:40:08.440 Day parade.

00:40:09.620 And, you know,

00:40:10.840 we even have

00:40:11.540 German beer festivals.

00:40:14.280 That is as far

00:40:15.420 as it goes.

00:40:16.640 And beyond that,

00:40:18.220 there's just nothing.

00:40:18.980 There really is

00:40:19.740 a kind of whiteness

00:40:21.180 in America.

00:40:21.900 So, you know,

00:40:23.280 it's possible.

00:40:24.780 Arctic whiteness

00:40:25.960 stretching in all

00:40:26.800 directions.

00:40:28.940 Well,

00:40:29.380 we're the last man.

00:40:33.140 Now, you know,

00:40:33.880 I've been thinking

00:40:34.360 about this

00:40:34.740 because I'm,

00:40:35.240 I'm actually going

00:40:36.540 to talk a little bit

00:40:37.300 about this

00:40:37.700 at our upcoming

00:40:38.580 conference.

00:40:40.060 But I think,

00:40:42.300 you know,

00:40:42.620 we have to admit

00:40:43.580 that there's a last man

00:40:46.460 within all of us.

00:40:48.460 You know,

00:40:49.100 we're,

00:40:49.680 we're,

00:40:50.280 we're,

00:40:50.720 we're consumed

00:40:51.840 with consuming

00:40:52.680 and making

00:40:53.440 and spending

00:40:54.120 and blah,

00:40:54.780 blah, blah.

00:40:55.660 We,

00:40:56.320 you know,

00:40:56.740 we're,

00:40:57.200 we think more

00:40:58.260 about Hollywood

00:41:00.040 movies

00:41:00.540 and the next

00:41:00.960 iPhone

00:41:01.440 than we probably

00:41:02.440 think about

00:41:03.120 our,

00:41:03.660 you know,

00:41:04.020 indigenous folkways

00:41:05.280 or tradition.

00:41:06.180 You know,

00:41:06.800 we should just

00:41:07.280 admit it.

00:41:08.240 But in a way

00:41:08.860 that,

00:41:09.540 that,

00:41:10.840 that homogenous 0.58

00:41:12.860 European man

00:41:13.920 that has been

00:41:14.460 created in America

00:41:15.240 and is being

00:41:15.880 created in Europe,

00:41:17.020 that might

00:41:18.300 ironically hold

00:41:19.460 a potential

00:41:20.000 for a European empire.

00:41:22.000 I mean,

00:41:22.680 Nietzsche wrote

00:41:23.480 about this

00:41:23.840 in Beyond Good

00:41:24.460 and Evil.

00:41:26.380 You know,

00:41:27.000 we're,

00:41:27.120 we're creating

00:41:27.820 this European,

00:41:28.840 we're creating

00:41:29.140 this good European

00:41:29.840 and he is

00:41:30.340 the last man.

00:41:31.180 But,

00:41:31.680 you know,

00:41:31.900 you need rulers

00:41:32.820 to rule the last men.

00:41:34.860 And so,

00:41:35.920 in a way,

00:41:36.520 this,

00:41:36.660 this,

00:41:37.020 this good European

00:41:38.200 might give birth

00:41:39.340 to the,

00:41:40.580 to a higher type

00:41:42.540 as well.

00:41:44.940 We've gone.

00:41:45.560 Yeah,

00:41:46.080 yeah,

00:41:46.300 I mean,

00:41:46.660 it sounds,

00:41:47.320 sounds good in theory

00:41:48.400 when you put it

00:41:49.000 like that,

00:41:49.520 but just imagine

00:41:50.980 how it works out

00:41:52.120 in practice.

00:41:53.160 Oh,

00:41:53.440 every,

00:41:53.900 everyone wants

00:41:54.600 to be an American.

00:41:55.480 Don't you know that?

00:41:56.720 We,

00:41:57.080 we just,

00:41:57.700 everyone just,

00:41:58.600 they,

00:41:58.900 everyone,

00:41:59.580 what is,

00:42:00.000 there was a great line

00:42:00.800 in Stanley Kubrick's

00:42:02.020 full metal jacket,

00:42:04.380 within every gook 1.00

00:42:05.640 I see a goddamn American. 1.00

00:42:08.220 And we've got, 1.00

00:42:09.660 it's a really classic line.

00:42:13.980 Just,

00:42:14.800 within every gook 1.00

00:42:16.020 I see a goddamn American 1.00

00:42:17.340 and we've just got 1.00

00:42:18.100 to come over here 1.00

00:42:18.980 and shoot him 1.00

00:42:20.160 until they recognize 1.00

00:42:22.680 the truth.

00:42:23.480 It was some kind

00:42:24.340 of horrible line

00:42:25.460 like that,

00:42:26.380 but that actually

00:42:27.380 kind of got

00:42:28.160 at this psychological truth.

00:42:30.320 And you,

00:42:30.780 you think that's,

00:42:31.440 that's true?

00:42:32.560 Well,

00:42:32.900 I,

00:42:33.140 again,

00:42:33.600 I think it's,

00:42:34.700 maybe it's kind

00:42:35.860 of horribly true.

00:42:39.160 No,

00:42:39.820 I,

00:42:40.180 look,

00:42:40.500 I,

00:42:40.760 I obviously,

00:42:41.580 I think America,

00:42:43.280 that kind of vision

00:42:44.540 is,

00:42:45.200 is pretty horrifying.

00:42:47.280 Yeah,

00:42:47.580 but it sounds

00:42:48.040 a little bit like,

00:42:48.800 yeah,

00:42:49.080 Freemasonry.

00:42:50.980 Maybe.

00:42:52.000 But at the same time,

00:42:54.000 I,

00:42:54.440 you can't deny

00:42:55.800 that there is

00:42:57.600 a,

00:42:58.680 a coming together

00:42:59.820 of Europeans.

00:43:01.060 And we are

00:43:02.580 so much more alike

00:43:03.940 than we are

00:43:04.460 different now.

00:43:05.120 I mean,

00:43:05.620 just the fact

00:43:06.300 that we're,

00:43:07.140 you know,

00:43:07.540 we're having

00:43:08.300 this conversation,

00:43:09.580 the fact that

00:43:10.040 we're having this,

00:43:10.900 you know,

00:43:11.220 in two weeks,

00:43:12.200 we're having a

00:43:12.760 English language

00:43:14.260 European conference.

00:43:16.440 And,

00:43:16.600 and actually,

00:43:17.420 it's,

00:43:17.680 you know,

00:43:18.800 sign up now,

00:43:19.980 tickets are still available.

00:43:21.320 But,

00:43:21.820 you know,

00:43:22.360 it,

00:43:22.820 just the fact

00:43:23.620 that that's happening,

00:43:24.400 I,

00:43:24.780 I think is expressive

00:43:26.120 of something,

00:43:27.120 that we're,

00:43:27.640 we're coming together.

00:43:29.180 And so,

00:43:29.980 I think,

00:43:30.560 you know,

00:43:30.780 the kind of,

00:43:31.860 you know,

00:43:32.100 within every gook 0.91

00:43:33.000 there's an American,

00:43:33.820 that's the kind of

00:43:34.420 horrifying version

00:43:35.860 of this reality.

00:43:37.560 But it's likely true.

00:43:39.260 You need a kind of

00:43:40.140 double identity,

00:43:41.660 though.

00:43:41.860 I don't think you can

00:43:42.460 just have this

00:43:43.080 one standard,

00:43:44.540 you know,

00:43:44.800 white identity.

00:43:45.620 You have to have

00:43:46.280 your own ethnic identity,

00:43:48.720 but then you also

00:43:49.520 have to have a kind of

00:43:50.320 greater white,

00:43:51.980 racial identity.

00:43:53.380 Yeah.

00:43:54.100 You know,

00:43:54.480 there's got to be

00:43:55.140 culture and there's

00:43:56.140 got to be

00:43:56.580 civilization.

00:43:58.160 Yeah.

00:43:58.580 And,

00:43:59.060 you know,

00:43:59.720 the,

00:44:00.320 what you're talking

00:44:01.880 about sort of

00:44:02.840 sounds like an

00:44:04.040 erasure of,

00:44:05.320 kind of ethnic

00:44:06.420 and cultural identity.

00:44:08.440 And then,

00:44:09.440 we sort of come together

00:44:10.740 around a shared

00:44:11.540 appreciation of the

00:44:12.620 iPhone and

00:44:13.420 the English language.

00:44:15.380 you know,

00:44:15.820 I mean,

00:44:16.120 so,

00:44:16.840 yeah,

00:44:18.300 I can see how that

00:44:19.400 sort of works

00:44:20.660 from an American

00:44:21.360 point of view

00:44:22.220 because,

00:44:22.640 you know,

00:44:22.760 America,

00:44:23.420 you know,

00:44:23.780 you have,

00:44:25.040 as you said,

00:44:25.660 you've kind of

00:44:25.900 erased ethnicity

00:44:26.960 to a very,

00:44:28.600 you know,

00:44:28.800 high degree.

00:44:29.680 Yeah.

00:44:30.460 But,

00:44:31.120 is that,

00:44:33.280 you know,

00:44:33.520 we have to wonder,

00:44:34.540 is that,

00:44:34.860 really healthy?

00:44:36.540 I mean,

00:44:36.840 maybe there has to

00:44:38.000 be a dialectic

00:44:39.020 because,

00:44:39.540 you know,

00:44:39.720 when I was,

00:44:40.840 it's funny,

00:44:41.740 I didn't expect

00:44:42.820 to do this,

00:44:43.580 but I'm kind of

00:44:44.020 getting into what

00:44:45.160 I'm going to talk

00:44:45.720 about at the

00:44:46.100 conference.

00:44:47.160 I think,

00:44:48.160 and again,

00:44:48.800 I don't like giving

00:44:49.780 a talk where I'm

00:44:50.620 like,

00:44:50.800 here's our new

00:44:51.360 policy agenda.

00:44:52.360 I like bringing

00:44:53.740 up dialectics

00:44:55.020 or really,

00:44:56.040 you know,

00:44:56.760 things where there's

00:44:57.440 a lot of tension

00:44:58.320 because that's when

00:44:59.120 things get interesting,

00:45:00.720 in my opinion.

00:45:01.240 But,

00:45:01.960 so,

00:45:02.600 I think there,

00:45:03.860 maybe there has to

00:45:04.640 be a kind of

00:45:05.160 dialectic or tension

00:45:06.320 and,

00:45:07.540 you know,

00:45:08.020 Americans,

00:45:09.580 you know,

00:45:09.820 because I was asking

00:45:10.460 myself while I was

00:45:11.220 writing this,

00:45:11.680 I was like,

00:45:12.080 what can we learn

00:45:13.680 from Europeans

00:45:14.260 and actually,

00:45:15.260 what can Europeans 0.98

00:45:15.920 learn from us

00:45:16.940 not to be,

00:45:18.420 not to be too

00:45:20.480 overconfident

00:45:21.380 or arrogant?

00:45:21.940 but I think

00:45:23.580 what Americans

00:45:24.680 desperately need

00:45:25.980 to learn from 0.61

00:45:26.560 Europeans

00:45:26.960 is that rootedness

00:45:28.320 and that culture

00:45:29.160 but maybe actually

00:45:31.020 Europeans need to

00:45:32.060 learn a certain

00:45:33.000 something from

00:45:33.700 Americans

00:45:34.160 and that is that

00:45:35.200 not to allow

00:45:36.620 ethnicity

00:45:37.180 to define,

00:45:38.520 to define

00:45:39.620 political

00:45:40.120 or,

00:45:40.920 you know,

00:45:41.520 gods forbid,

00:45:42.820 violent conflicts

00:45:44.280 and,

00:45:46.120 and we kind of,

00:45:47.220 maybe,

00:45:47.500 maybe we need

00:45:48.360 kind of that tension,

00:45:49.520 that tension

00:45:50.000 between being a

00:45:50.760 Scotsman

00:45:51.220 and being a

00:45:52.240 white man

00:45:52.680 because,

00:45:53.320 you know,

00:45:53.480 again,

00:45:54.040 vis-a-vis

00:45:54.440 the rest of the

00:45:55.020 world,

00:45:56.020 you know,

00:45:56.340 to a Chinaman,

00:45:57.800 you're not a

00:45:58.720 Scotsman, 0.96

00:45:59.780 you're a white 0.98

00:46:00.280 person.

00:46:01.700 They don't,

00:46:02.360 you know,

00:46:02.640 a Scotsman,

00:46:03.340 that's like a,

00:46:04.320 some funny

00:46:05.100 tie that you wear,

00:46:07.120 that's meaningless,

00:46:08.140 you're a white man

00:46:08.900 and, 0.62

00:46:10.140 so we have to

00:46:11.460 recognize that

00:46:12.180 I think,

00:46:12.900 and maybe there

00:46:13.400 could be a real

00:46:14.120 productive tension

00:46:15.120 between,

00:46:16.140 you know,

00:46:16.400 culture and

00:46:16.860 civilization as you

00:46:17.680 put it.

00:46:18.660 Yeah,

00:46:19.100 but you're always

00:46:19.640 going to have,

00:46:20.200 you're always

00:46:20.740 going to have

00:46:21.120 groups that

00:46:23.020 actually use

00:46:25.060 a dual identity

00:46:26.040 in such a system

00:46:27.220 that you're

00:46:27.880 proposing.

00:46:28.400 You always have

00:46:28.840 groups that will

00:46:29.900 use a dual identity.

00:46:32.380 On one level,

00:46:34.160 they'll be part of

00:46:34.940 this greater,

00:46:35.900 you know,

00:46:36.260 unified identity,

00:46:38.160 but they'll also

00:46:38.700 have their

00:46:39.640 sort of secret

00:46:40.900 identity,

00:46:41.720 you know.

00:46:42.680 Well,

00:46:42.860 whom could you be

00:46:43.520 referring to?

00:46:44.900 The Irish? 0.74

00:46:46.300 The Scots.

00:46:46.900 That's Scots.

00:46:48.520 And maybe one or

00:46:49.460 two other

00:46:49.840 ethnicities,

00:46:50.640 you know what I

00:46:50.940 mean?

00:46:51.180 So,

00:46:51.840 Scots have been

00:46:52.800 playing that game

00:46:53.400 for ages.

00:46:53.880 Yeah.

00:46:54.820 I mean,

00:46:55.100 you have the

00:46:55.460 Anglo-Scot,

00:46:56.480 you know,

00:46:56.660 you don't know

00:46:57.060 him from,

00:46:57.700 you know,

00:46:58.040 anybody else

00:46:58.920 down in the,

00:46:59.500 down at the,

00:47:00.300 the St.

00:47:01.240 James Club,

00:47:01.960 you know,

00:47:02.400 but,

00:47:02.920 you know,

00:47:03.720 you do have this

00:47:04.660 kind of dual

00:47:05.200 identity with,

00:47:06.180 with certain,

00:47:07.100 you know,

00:47:07.860 highly intelligent

00:47:08.840 races.

00:47:09.240 It is Scottish

00:47:10.900 Freemasonry,

00:47:11.680 after all,

00:47:12.340 isn't it?

00:47:13.220 Yeah,

00:47:13.520 it's basically,

00:47:14.480 that's where it

00:47:15.020 comes from,

00:47:16.340 Kilwinen,

00:47:17.660 the oldest

00:47:18.460 lodge.

00:47:21.040 Yeah,

00:47:21.580 well,

00:47:21.740 it has,

00:47:21.960 it has very,

00:47:22.620 it has a very

00:47:23.120 diverse history

00:47:23.980 and it's sort of,

00:47:25.280 you know,

00:47:25.780 there's a lot of

00:47:26.460 European currents

00:47:27.360 in it as well.

00:47:29.660 Yeah,

00:47:29.900 I was just reading

00:47:30.440 Jan Nassmann's

00:47:32.160 Religio Duplex

00:47:33.620 recently,

00:47:34.560 which goes into

00:47:35.540 a lot of the

00:47:36.000 detail of

00:47:36.660 Freemasonry 0.94

00:47:38.140 from a European

00:47:39.260 perspective

00:47:39.880 and how it

00:47:41.120 kind of feeds

00:47:41.640 into this

00:47:42.180 greater kind of

00:47:43.680 cosmopolitan

00:47:44.600 identity that

00:47:46.100 you're talking

00:47:46.540 about.

00:47:47.180 So that might be

00:47:48.360 something worth

00:47:49.100 looking at from

00:47:49.880 the perspective

00:47:50.860 of,

00:47:51.440 you know,

00:47:51.860 the Congress

00:47:52.560 that you're

00:47:53.040 organizing and

00:47:54.040 some ideas

00:47:55.220 you're floating.

00:47:55.940 So I sort of

00:47:56.360 recommend you have

00:47:57.020 a quick look at

00:47:57.600 that.

00:47:58.380 I definitely will.

00:47:59.040 I don't know that

00:47:59.500 book,

00:47:59.860 so I will look at

00:48:00.660 it.

00:48:01.660 But actually,

00:48:03.140 Colin,

00:48:03.660 why don't we,

00:48:04.420 I think we actually

00:48:05.440 got to a really

00:48:06.220 interesting place,

00:48:07.080 so why don't we,

00:48:07.740 why don't we just

00:48:08.560 put a bookmark in

00:48:09.460 this conversation

00:48:10.120 and let's pick it

00:48:12.860 up again because

00:48:13.800 this was a lot of

00:48:15.120 fun.

00:48:16.020 Okay,

00:48:16.460 yeah,

00:48:16.660 there should be a

00:48:17.280 lot of interesting

00:48:18.040 ramifications from

00:48:19.920 this campaign and

00:48:21.580 the moves made to

00:48:23.840 stem Scottish

00:48:24.620 independence.

00:48:25.840 Thank you.

00:48:26.920 Okay,

00:48:27.500 right,

00:48:27.780 thanks Richard.

00:48:28.220 Richard.

00:48:35.340 Thank you,

00:48:37.900 I…

00:48:40.540 I…

00:48:43.600 I…

00:48:45.260 I…

00:48:51.900 I…

00:49:03.140 Thank you.

00:49:33.140 Thank you.

00:50:03.140 Thank you.

00:50:33.140 Thank you.

00:51:03.140 Thank you.

00:51:33.140 Thank you.

RadixJournal - September 19, 2014

The Wandering Scot

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