RadixJournal - The West, the Best, and the Rest

00:00:00.000 yes hello everyone welcome and this is the

00:00:28.720 first step in a long journey um we're moving towards a a live stream format greater than

00:00:36.680 what we were doing before this is still members only but today it's a little bit more inclusive

00:00:44.240 than members only this is subscribers only i guess but we'll uh i wanted to uh announce what

00:00:50.440 we're doing and and let more people join us so um and we have an excellent guest and that

00:00:58.360 who's just leaving so we have no guests tonight uh i've already offended him and he's walked off

00:01:06.540 the show we can only look at his library and speculate about all of the books that he is

00:01:14.540 reading but um as you can see or as you saw my my guest is drew pavlu and there's his dog

00:01:23.300 looks like he has two poodles um so welcome welcome drew thanks for being here

00:01:31.960 no thank you for having me on sorry about that i i just had to uh put the simulcast on full screen

00:01:38.660 but uh no thanks for having me on it's it's uh very interesting to discuss we've got we do have

00:01:43.880 different views on a wide range of matters like for example like the middle east israel calceline

00:01:47.980 etc but yeah we we basically agree on ukraine so it's you know we we've got i think you're also

00:01:54.400 very anti-trump these days so it's interesting to discuss yes yes that that is all true uh so are

00:02:00.560 those two little poodles you have there yes they are i am i am dog sitting for two poodles right now

00:02:05.680 they're not my own but i'm dog sitting okay yeah i i uh i love them they're very cute i love poodles

00:02:11.140 i love yes i i actually have a poodle mix a bernadoodle that was given to me for my birthday a few

00:02:20.180 years ago but i didn't know how nice poodles were they're very devoted to you and he's sort of the

00:02:27.540 nicest dog i've ever had but oh absolutely they're they're such good companion creatures i that's why i

00:02:33.680 love dogs they're they're very devoted and they're they're very sweet they're very sweet i'm a big fan

00:02:38.700 of dogs definitely so drew just in case some viewers don't know who you are could you give us the the

00:02:48.340 rundown on what you do and where you are in life and all that jazz yeah no of course it's um it's a

00:02:57.360 pretty strange and crazy background essentially when i was about 20 years old i started protesting

00:03:03.520 against the chinese government my university in australia um as a result of that yeah which

00:03:08.360 like it was just like during the hong kong protests and and i was a young idealist and and i and i started

00:03:13.440 protesting and at the first protest i ever organized um like basically the chinese consulate organized the

00:03:19.440 counter rally and i got like sort of like assaulted physically assaulted by a bunch of guys in their

00:03:24.280 30s who weren't even students like they were chinese nationals and um and that's what made me

00:03:30.560 um you know start as an activist it was quite funny because um even though i basically am just like a i

00:03:39.060 mean i literally was just like a random guy but because i was doing these protests and i was quite

00:03:43.100 i guess i was quite effective at them and and very loud and annoying um the chinese government started 0.64

00:03:48.420 like a campaign against me and they condemned me in the uh chinese state media and uh i was like a

00:03:54.200 figure of hate and the chinese ambassador to australia was attacking me and stuff like that

00:03:57.840 and um at a certain point they put out a statement calling for my university to expel me as a student

00:04:03.040 and um yeah and the university had a budget that was about i think 20 of the annual budget relied just

00:04:10.240 on chinese international students so they were they were like really worried that they would then

00:04:15.180 lose that because essentially in the article the chinese government was basically threatening to cut

00:04:19.840 like chinese students going to the university and um the so what did you say yeah well the university

00:04:26.740 actually tried to expel me they spent about half a million dollars in australian taxpayer money to

00:04:30.260 expel me um they brought in they brought in two of the top four law firms in australia and so that was

00:04:34.820 like my that's how i guess i first came into the public eye um which was very strange because i was i was

00:04:40.160 like 20 21 years old i never thought in a million years that i would be like sort of in a sort of public

00:04:44.540 role at that point and then um and then i just basically kept on campaigning kept on campaigning

00:04:49.700 i had a small independent run at the last election oh the 2022 election in australia didn't get many

00:04:55.140 votes but it was just like we're kind of um we were kind of campaigning i guess against the chinese 1.00

00:05:00.080 government's um influence in australia because australia's got australia's closest trading partner is

00:05:05.320 uh china and so there's i guess a lot of pressure from big business elites in australia and um also you

00:05:12.800 know people quite high up in australian politics like they just want to sort of like um trade with

00:05:18.200 china and avoid annoying their government etc so um so so i ran in that election um but my life kind of

00:05:26.820 took a massive turn because at a certain point in 2022 i was i was still only like 23 years old at this

00:05:31.940 point um i was in london and i got basically swatted by um chinese government or chinese government

00:05:38.120 supporters and uh i they basically did a fake email threat in my name like a bomb threat using

00:05:44.240 proton mail with the ip address and um the metropolitan police in london like literally

00:05:49.380 treated as a serious bomb threat and they arrested me as a terrorist suspect i was held in communicado

00:05:54.740 without any access to the australian embassy or australian lawyers or any lawyers and um i was like

00:06:00.120 stranded in london for six weeks in the end i it was a really crazy experience um and then after that

00:06:05.320 i basically was like okay i'm not gonna i'm not gonna do like sort of in-person protesting anymore

00:06:09.640 i'm gonna kind of move along to trying to do more of more like you know youtube and sub stack and

00:06:15.980 commentary yeah and um i guess my political trajectory is interesting because when i started

00:06:21.760 all this i was kind of like a bernie sanders fan i was kind of like a democratic socialist um and you

00:06:26.420 know like in in 2020 i was like a big black lives matter supporter and all this stuff i was like really

00:06:30.340 i was really really worried and left-wing and everything um and i i think essentially what

00:06:34.700 happened is from the start even though i identified as like progressive and democratic socialists and

00:06:39.600 all that sort of stuff i would always from the very start get so much harassment and abuse and

00:06:45.560 swatting and death threats and all this crazy stuff from supporters of the chinese government tankies 0.95

00:06:49.960 you know authoritarian leftists um right like like basically full hard-blown uh tankies and i think

00:06:56.120 i just came to understand over like a four or five year period it was a very long and torturous

00:07:00.600 process but i think i came to understand that essentially um like unfortunately the sort of

00:07:06.720 authoritarian ultra left tanky sort of impulse has unfortunately infected a lot of the center

00:07:12.420 left as well and like past a certain point constantly being abused and subjected to hatred and death

00:07:21.780 threats and and swatting and my parents were swatted and my parents had death threats against them and

00:07:26.480 everything um this isn't even the worst part i think at a certain point australian federal police

00:07:31.780 called me into their offices in brisbane and told me that they had actually intercepted a genuine sort

00:07:36.340 of like kidnap plot by chinese foreign intelligence in australia they didn't say it was chinese foreign

00:07:40.160 intelligence they just said it was like a foreign intelligence plot and uh which is nuts because i was

00:07:44.360 literally just like as i said at this point i mean still even to this day i'm just like a youtuber

00:07:48.980 slash twitter guy right right so and this was in australia so it was obviously a really crazy

00:07:53.760 thing to happen and just past a certain point with all these people saying you're the enemy we want

00:07:58.520 to kill you celebrating all this stuff happening to me i'm just like no i don't really identify as

00:08:03.020 a leftist then anymore um i wouldn't identify necessarily as right-wing myself i'd say maybe like 0.98

00:08:07.720 more classical liberal uh moderate maybe like moderate social democrat type thing i mean i believe in

00:08:13.640 public health care i believe in you know public goods all these sorts of things um but yeah i sort

00:08:20.380 of have certainly broken with kind of like the activist left because of this crazy stuff and and

00:08:25.020 i've also been a big supporter of ukraine as well so i've been to ukraine i was there about three four

00:08:28.700 months ago and i literally went to the donbass i recorded um the aftermath of a russian missile

00:08:33.320 strike on a donbass town called dobropilya and i walked through the um a residential tower block

00:08:38.780 that had just basically been completely gutted by um like the aftermath of an iskander ballistic

00:08:44.300 missile strike and also cluster munitions and i i recorded um i recorded evidence of war crimes there

00:08:50.300 and i also filmed myself walking through her son um which is like you know that's subject to the uh

00:08:55.720 human safari which is what the ukrainians call it uh essentially the russians have declared a

00:09:00.280 almost like a free fire zone of much of the city and they're just literally droning people

00:09:04.320 throughout the city so walking through the um walking through her son was pretty confronting

00:09:09.340 and so um look i'm a massive supporter of ukraine probably the area where you're going to disagree

00:09:14.520 with me on the most is listen i am quite i i would defend myself i guess i call myself um

00:09:20.720 it's almost like an anti-anti-zionist in a sense in the way that like i guess seeing the way that so

00:09:28.100 many leftists celebrated october 7th and stuff like that as a sort of like race war thing where they

00:09:31.620 were like israelis are white and we want to do this in america and australia and all these sort

00:09:36.800 of colonial settler places etc um that sort of made me very alarmed by um by like you know the sort of

00:09:45.540 decolonial hard left rhetoric and and um i think i think like you know it's become a very much a sort

00:09:53.520 of like sort of like race communist type identified cause the sort of palestinian activist movement

00:09:59.160 and in australia at least like you know there's there's all these hezbollah rallies hamas rallies

00:10:03.780 and all this stuff like literally people holding up hezbollah flags in australia and stuff like that

00:10:07.700 and it pisses me off so like i i am i am quite stridently against um you know like the sort of

00:10:14.020 like anti-zionist movement and look i i am also somebody who doesn't like anti-semitism i um you know

00:10:20.380 i i am somebody who you know grew up i had a lot of jewish friends and and you know i i i like you

00:10:27.800 know jewish culture and i loved i grew up on seinfeld and stuff like that so look this is this is

00:10:32.660 probably where maybe maybe you're going to disagree with me that's okay we can discuss i'll i'll push on

00:10:38.580 all these things but but before we talk about that i want to back up a little bit so yeah what is it

00:10:45.040 that you said that angered the chinese government to that extent that's a good question i mean i

00:10:51.740 certainly was calling for the overthrow of the chinese communist party um and look look probably

00:10:56.720 the thing that pissed them off the most was look i was very progressive at this point and stuff like

00:11:01.320 that and i guess i was using a lot of decolonial rhetoric against the chinese government so i was

00:11:04.480 saying like decolonize tibet free tibet independent and i still believe all this i still believe that i

00:11:09.180 still believe that tibet should be an independent country i still think that the uyghurs should have 1.00

00:11:13.460 the right to like have independence and stuff like that um that's probably the thing that pissed

00:11:17.380 them off the most like and listen i was very strident in my activism like i would i guess i'd 0.99

00:11:21.860 get in their faces and annoy them quite a lot like at one point i held up a sign that said fuck xi 0.97

00:11:26.220 jingping in chinese in like you know a a major suburb in sydney and there were guys who like walked 0.98

00:11:32.580 past and tried to punch me up and everything so i guess i've been very loud in my activism i worked a

00:11:37.560 lot with like sort of like hong kong dissonance tibetan dissonance i i that's probably one of the

00:11:41.380 things that pissed them off a lot a lot like um obviously there's like there's like a very vulgar

00:11:46.060 sort of low iq sort of like anti-china sort of thing on the american far right like so i remember

00:11:52.400 like tucker carlson had that guy on who was like oh i want the american military to i want guys in

00:11:57.400 the american military to want to like sit on a throne of chinese skulls and that was absolutely

00:12:01.100 that's absolutely the opposite of the approach that i had like because my whole thing was i always

00:12:05.560 said listen i i actually like chinese culture i like the chinese people i'm against the chinese 1.00

00:12:09.880 communist party and i i um i would work with chinese dissident pro-democracy types um every

00:12:16.780 single year like so funny coincidence history like i was born on june 4th 1989 like i'm sorry june 4th

00:12:22.280 1999 so 10 years to the day of tianaman so i i um every year on my birthday like you know i'm at

00:12:27.780 tianaman square memorials with chinese dissidents groups the pro-democracy types and everything

00:12:31.340 so so that's probably one of the things that pisses them off the most like i do work a lot with like

00:12:35.920 the actual actual chinese pro-democracy groups and tibetans and and uyghurs and stuff like that and

00:12:40.460 i think that pisses them off quite a lot because like i think i think a lot of it for them was a

00:12:45.260 sort of race war thing like i would get called um i'd get called white trash or i get called walk which

00:12:50.780 is like sort of like old-time racial slogans greeks in australia um by chinese nationalists online and

00:12:55.880 stuff like that um and they would i remember when i did this first protest like um they it was pretty

00:13:03.740 crazy because we got surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of chinese nationals who were pro-ccp uh 1.00

00:13:08.760 we got surrounded on a kind of like small hill and like literally the police came out and there was

00:13:12.600 lines of police to try and hold the groups apart and um it was it was really unhinged because um

00:13:17.900 basically the leader of the chinese students told me in front of the police during like negotiations

00:13:22.820 to end the standoff he was like we're not going to let your side leave until you apologize to the 0.99

00:13:26.940 chinese nation and like and like his crowd were chanting out stuff saying like white trash white trash and 0.97

00:13:32.100 stuff like that and everything so i think the fact that like i was like non-chinese but working 0.99

00:13:37.060 in chinese now the z-tards say you're not even white so well yeah that's that's a very dude this 0.99

00:13:42.260 is a very funny thing so um it's it's a very funny thing because from the start when i was doing my

00:13:47.460 activism um the han nationalists uh the trotsky is the far left people at my university who were

00:13:54.220 attacking me they would all call me like a white supremacist that say drew's like a white racist blah blah

00:13:58.020 and then because i was like against like joel davis and the schizophrenic like sort of neo-nazi 0.97

00:14:04.300 wingnats in australia who believe that there shouldn't even be a single non-white person in

00:14:07.800 the country and stuff like that um just like unhinged stuff like because of that they started 1.00

00:14:11.820 going oh we're going to deport drew he's not even fully white he's probably turks all this dumb shit 1.00

00:14:15.940 and i think um i think it's very funny because the national socialist network in australia has 1.00

00:14:22.260 probably become probably one of the most active neo-nazi groups in the entire world and they they

00:14:28.380 have this thing called the wog question where they literally say listen we don't think that southern

00:14:32.760 europeans or uh slavs are like or eastern europeans like fully white but they will be allowed to stay 1.00

00:14:39.440 in our pure ethno state if they acknowledge our hegemon hegemony this is literally what they say 0.99

00:14:43.600 which is really unhinged and um and so they started doing that shit to me because i was against joel 0.99

00:14:47.840 davis and thomas sewell and i was saying like you guys aren't hinged and you know you're unhinged 0.98

00:14:54.400 you're schizophrenic oh i i i i get it definitely are you orthodox greek are you orthodox christian 0.54

00:15:02.740 yeah that's what i i think i remember that look i'm greek orthodox christian and i'm not like i'm 0.96

00:15:07.840 certainly not like a kind of like bible beating basher or anything like that but it's right it's 1.00

00:15:12.720 something i identify with and and i i do believe in like the central tenets of the christian faith and

00:15:16.620 and we can discuss this because i know you're like a nichian anti-christian type and i think you

00:15:21.300 believe that i think you believe that christianity is like a desert religion influenced by like the

00:15:25.740 yahood and stuff like that so we can discuss this yeah uh yeah more than that but okay i i want to go

00:15:32.680 back just a little bit again so what is the situation like in australia vis-a-vis the chinese because i think

00:15:41.840 a lot of americans we we think of australia as like an island off the coast of ireland or something

00:15:47.760 like it's part of the anglosphere but it's actually part of asia and you were just saying that china is

00:15:54.800 the the largest trading partner um yeah so what what is the situation like in in china i was pretty

00:16:03.820 like in australia yeah look very interesting question um in australia i think there is a lot

00:16:10.260 of sort of cultural affinity with like america and the rest of the anglosphere simply because

00:16:13.480 at the end of the day it's an english-speaking like we're predominantly english-speaking country

00:16:16.840 and you know there's like the long history of australia being part of like a western alliance

00:16:21.660 system yeah vaguely protestant still yeah yeah it's it is interesting because i mean it's interesting

00:16:28.880 because like we we've had a like this is one of the things that i pushed back against um the sort

00:16:33.760 of like national social network types on in the sense that like um i mean australia always had like

00:16:38.580 a very large irish population and catholic influence and stuff like that and and that led a lot to you

00:16:44.580 know especially in the early years of australia's history like there was never really like hegemony like

00:16:48.460 a white hegemony sort of thing in the sense that like there was a there was a lot of sort of like

00:16:53.420 sectarian conflict between irish australians and protestant australians and stuff but that's like i guess

00:16:57.180 that's a different question the the thing with china is very interesting because um it's by far

00:17:02.600 our largest trading partner and as a result of that a lot of a lot of the top okay so like if you look

00:17:08.320 at like the top top um billionaires in australia if you look at like the political economy of australia

00:17:13.860 um people sometimes joke that we've got a kind of third world economy in the sense that um we are like

00:17:19.600 90 i think we're ranked like 92nd according to a harvard study of economic complexity in the world based

00:17:24.700 on exports so we actually rank behind countries like senegal in the sense that a lot of our economy

00:17:29.780 is basically still based on the export of raw commodities um just like coal uh coal uh what

00:17:35.720 else uh like yeah like iron ore all this sort of stuff it's predominantly it's predominantly to china

00:17:40.260 yeah yeah and and it's predominantly to china and asia pacific and and it's like the australian

00:17:45.080 economy is very strange it's almost like um it's almost like a just a massive mining thing

00:17:49.360 with uh with like a housing bubble attached it's a really crazy thing we now have a problem where

00:17:54.980 um sydney is literally at the same level of affordability on housing as hong kong so it's

00:17:59.580 like literally right up there is one of the worst worst case of affordability in the entire world

00:18:03.400 uh we've got one of the worst housing bubbles in the entire world and look at our economy because

00:18:07.800 of the fact that it's so much centered around like sort of the export of raw commodities etc a lot of

00:18:12.540 the top billionaires in australia you know their fortunes are linked to literally trading iron ore and coal to

00:18:17.280 to china so there's a lot of influence by very like the business council of australia like business

00:18:22.780 interests are very much kind of like we want to stabilize the relationship with china don't don't

00:18:28.040 like they would they would acknowledge that like china is not a lot of these billionaires in the

00:18:33.040 business community wouldn't would acknowledge that like the chinese government's not our friend 1.00

00:18:36.760 necessarily but they don't want to have a situation where they have to pick between the american

00:18:41.160 security alliance and the economic reliance alliance with china and so and so they might be

00:18:46.680 forced to choose at some point like i mean yeah how does china view australia does it i mean it's not

00:18:52.760 taiwan exactly and it's very different taiwan doesn't have many natural resources i would imagine

00:18:58.080 it has manufacturing um so it's sort of a totally different situation but i mean does china see australia

00:19:06.680 as in its sphere this is a question i haven't really thought about um look it's a it's a very interesting

00:19:12.420 question and sometimes people ask me like what's the worst worst case scenario for australia and it's

00:19:17.120 not that i think that like you know the pla is literally going to be landing on bondi beach i think

00:19:20.980 the worst worst case scenario for australia in the next 20 30 years is um potentially if america turns

00:19:27.680 really inwards in terms of isolationism um that we already have a very loud and vocal sort of part of

00:19:35.240 our political elite it's sort of like a boomer leftist type part of the elite that wants us to

00:19:41.660 essentially completely crush like completely abandon the american security alliance um and they they

00:19:46.040 will mobilize all the familiar arguments you know like like look at what they're doing in middle the

00:19:49.660 middle east with israel iran and all this stuff they're so evil some of them will mobilize conspiracy 0.84

00:19:54.680 theories about you know gough whitlam's dismissal in like 1972 saying oh it was the cia which i don't

00:19:58.700 think is true but but like it's it's kind of like a boomer it's kind of like a boomer ex-hippie type

00:20:03.400 like but it's it's people like the former prime minister paul keating it's people like former

00:20:07.980 foreign minister bob carr like they're quite influential and um intelligent so like very top

00:20:15.320 level sort of former political elites and they've formed like basically a lobby group where they want

00:20:19.600 to cut off the relationship with america and go all in with china and and asking what what is the

00:20:25.540 worst case scenario i think the worst case scenario is if america were to turn inward if taiwan were to

00:20:29.700 fall to um to a chinese invasion i think the worst case scenario would be that sort of section of the 1.00

00:20:35.280 political elite um would then gain the ascendancy and then basically say we will we will pursue a

00:20:41.260 policy of finlandization with china and it's not this is the crazy thing is that this is actually

00:20:45.940 like this is not even outside the realm of possibility there's a guy called sam rogervin who's

00:20:50.040 like i think he's he's like a top sort of like security sort of intellectual in australia um writes

00:20:56.560 books about like you know australian national security and more stuff and he's kind of more

00:20:59.680 attentive over the progressive side of australian politics and he literally said that he once had

00:21:03.720 a tweet like back in like 2018 saying like is finlandization really that bad and exact is that

00:21:08.780 really such a bad outcome for australia and i don't think that they realized like what that entailed for

00:21:13.120 finland during the cold war was they had to basically remove books critical of the soviet union from their

00:21:17.760 libraries they had to basically engage in massive amounts of self-censorship their political system

00:21:22.520 their political system was under a lot of pressure by the soviet union for like decades and and i think

00:21:27.000 that is the worst case scenario for australia like a finlandization type scenario and i think the fact

00:21:34.060 that like it's we already know like the chinese government's very active in australia with like um

00:21:38.900 united front groups and stuff like that there was literally a kidnap plot against me we know that

00:21:42.800 they actually like legitimately hunt chinese dissidents in australia and like try and hurt people and stuff

00:21:47.360 like that and so i think like a worst case scenario is a really scary one where look to be honest like

00:21:53.240 in such a scenario i'd probably be forced into exile like i don't know if i could actually like live in

00:21:56.980 australia and listen it's gotten pretty bad to the point that like the australian federal police

00:22:00.840 literally told me like there was a kidnap plot against you we literally we intercepted this we

00:22:05.200 literally had to raid somebody living in australia we raided their residence to stop and interfere in

00:22:09.820 this plot but to this day two years later no one's been arrested for that they literally raided the

00:22:13.960 person involved in the plot but no one was arrested so that shows you where we are at i think it's a

00:22:19.200 little bit similar to britain in that the police the police and security forces and stuff like that

00:22:24.840 seem to be very wary of um it's kind of it's almost like sectarian politics have come into it where like

00:22:32.020 they're very wary of making arrests and actually properly cracking down on these people like there was

00:22:40.500 literally a kidnap plot against me no one was arrested even though they knew about it and raided

00:22:43.740 somebody i think they're worried that by doing things like that they will increase sectarian

00:22:48.940 tension in australia because we do have a very large um chinese australian population and listen

00:22:54.020 the vast majority of that population don't are like non-political they don't want to be involved

00:22:58.060 in these questions of like you know china versus australia etc but we know that the chinese government

00:23:02.300 does try and interfere with this community they they dominate wechat i mean wechat is literally at

00:23:08.040 the end of the day a chinese government-run platform and so they shake the discourse of what a lot

00:23:12.400 chinese australians read every single day and use on their social media and see in their news

00:23:16.180 and um it's a it's a pretty worrying thing because i think we're at the stage where the political

00:23:21.820 authorities are very wary of taking actual proper steps to like crack down on people who are like

00:23:28.120 literally doing kidnap plots and stuff like that because they're worried that it will lead to like

00:23:31.620 you know sectarian conflict and stuff like that i was listening to um you probably know this guy but

00:23:35.980 you know that guy he's like a academic at king's college london i think a military war studies

00:23:40.240 academic and he's been predicting like that there are a lot of elements that are there are a lot of

00:23:45.300 elements that typically are aligned with like you know a coming civil war like a lot of those

00:23:51.060 elements exist in britain and one of the things that he was oh civil war in britain or are you

00:23:55.780 talking about war oh it was a civil war and and listen i'm not sure how like how how accurate

00:24:03.980 this guy because like he made some comment during the course of his uh podcast appearance

00:24:07.900 where he said like you know the west is going to be crushed in ukraine so that immediately raised

00:24:11.860 alarm bells i'm like okay right just be he could just be like a z-tar who's being like alarmist 0.93

00:24:15.660 and stuff like that but he raised one point where like you might remember this but there was a case

00:24:20.640 in britain where there are essentially a bunch of guys that like manages the airport who are like

00:24:25.280 muslim british guys and they like bashed a couple of police officers and like stomped in their head and 0.98

00:24:30.220 stuff like that and it was like it was like a year and a half later two years later there still were not

00:24:33.780 like proper arrests made because they were like worried that it would lead to sectarian tension so

00:24:38.380 there are sort of elements in britain where like there are there's worries by people in the police

00:24:44.220 like if they go in and arrest people who've done these heinous things and it's going to lead to

00:24:48.220 civil conflict and stuff like that i'm worried that we're getting to that point in australia when

00:24:51.880 it comes to um not just as well like like ccp interference operations and stuff but i think also with

00:24:57.500 like islamist australia stuff so like we've had like pretty hardcore pro hezbollah rallies and stuff like

00:25:02.100 that in australia uh marches by hezbollah guys and um like there were mosques in western sydney that

00:25:09.020 were holding uh memorial requims for like nasrallah and stuff like that there was there was an isis hate

00:25:15.020 preacher in west sydney who made a speech and he he's a really hardcore extremist type like one of his

00:25:21.680 it was literally his best friend went over and fought for isis died and died in syria i think um they

00:25:27.400 were born in sydney went over to fight for isis died in syria and his best friend it was a very

00:25:33.640 famous case in australia his best friend um held up a severed head and got his like four-year-old

00:25:40.080 australian-born son to hold up the severed head on camera in syria and this guy with him he did who's

00:25:45.600 like an isis hate preacher in west sydney he literally defended that to the australian media

00:25:49.100 saying like i see nothing wrong with that and he's never been arrested yeah i don't he's never been

00:25:53.340 arrested nothing like and so um there was a point after october 7 where he was giving like a kind of

00:25:58.860 like speech to his sort of uh followers and he said stuff like there's there's like a sort of uh

00:26:05.340 there's a controversial hadith that own that is only really understood i mean it seemed to be a very

00:26:10.420 extremist hadith that like the majority of like so like muslim scholars reject but it's it's you 0.95

00:26:14.880 probably have heard it's like in the end times the jews will hide behind the garkhand tree and the rock 0.94

00:26:19.320 and the even the garkhand tree and the rock will call out to the muslims oh believer come out there 0.92

00:26:24.600 is a yahud behind me come out and kill him so he was giving that speech to his followers basically 0.98

00:26:27.920 saying in the end times go out and kill jews and like like australia australia is not like australia 0.98

00:26:33.220 where australia is not like america where there is like you know very strong free speech protections 0.77

00:26:36.980 people get arrested for free speech violations all the time in australia for example i got a thirty

00:26:41.780 thousand dollar fine against me in australia because i held up a blank sign against um like i held up a blank

00:26:47.240 sign inside outside the chinese consulate in brisbane like sort of protesting like just mocking

00:26:51.480 their censorship holding a blank sign and i got like a 30k fine against me like because i because

00:26:56.740 i fought it in court and then i lost and then they ordered me to pay the fight court fees and stuff

00:27:00.260 like that so it is a bit of a two-tier policing system where like literally i got a 30k fine for

00:27:05.820 holding a blank sign and then this guy was literally telling his followers like in the end times go out

00:27:09.560 and kill the hood and yeah nothing happened so so i think it's very worrying in australia i think we're

00:27:14.460 getting to a point where there's pretty bad sectarian tension there's a lot of and i think

00:27:17.960 the police and the authority like the state doesn't really know how to deal with it yeah so do you think

00:27:24.260 that these tensions that you've been outlying sort of created a an atavism almost in terms of your

00:27:34.520 support for ukraine and and i guess what i'm what i'm saying is you're you're rubbing shoulders with the

00:27:39.980 the muslim element and so on um but there's there's a real looming threat of china i i think in a way 1.00

00:27:47.180 that there's not one in the united states um back my parents generation and my grandparents generation

00:27:54.060 they would have nuclear bomb threat drills in lower school like those things of like hiding under your

00:28:02.320 desk if they drop an h-bomb or all of that and there was more of a sense of a red minute

00:28:09.960 i think with those generations i think it's interesting that so many of these sentiments

00:28:17.420 have flipped in the sense that i i think it's fair to say now and i never would have guessed this

00:28:24.500 that being pro-russia or being anti uh confrontation with russia let's say cold war with russia

00:28:34.140 is absolutely right-wing coded yeah yeah absolutely it would never have been that way just a few

00:28:41.520 generations hence um that was apps i mean not that the liberals didn't fight the cold war or in fact

00:28:48.600 fight a hot war in vietnam and so on i i totally get that but there was also a degree to which being

00:28:56.220 anti-communist was uh right-wing coded and i feel like maybe with you you you're in a different

00:29:03.540 situation than a lot of americans a lot of americans think oh putin's a fun guy and he

00:29:08.520 rides around shirtless and russians are trad and yeah yeah and not gay and blah blah blah that's 0.93

00:29:15.780 that's it that's what it is that's literally what it is for mega people like a majority of them it's 0.93

00:29:20.920 literally just like they saw that retarded um advertisement you know the military recruitment 0.95

00:29:25.800 ad and it was like that guy with who was doing push-ups for the russian military it was very funny 0.98

00:29:30.540 because it turned out that that guy in particular was actually a former gay porn model or something 0.69

00:29:33.620 like that but like but like ted cruz remember ted cruz saw that ad and it was like oh my god like 0.95

00:29:38.640 this just shows this is why they're so much better than us because like they're they they are not woke

00:29:44.140 and they've got like you know the irony of course is that he was really turned on by that ad yeah that's

00:29:48.500 why but uh but but that's what it is for them like they got what i it's crazy but they actually got 0.97

00:29:54.120 one-shotted by the stupid russian propaganda that like oh we're actually right-wing and trad 0.93

00:29:58.960 and and we both would we both would know this but they um they they tailor their messaging for 0.99

00:30:05.140 different audiences so when they want to mobilize third world this resentment against ukraine they do 0.76

00:30:09.460 that beautifully like they they've got julius malema in south africa chanting we are putin we are putin

00:30:14.040 so like if you are somebody who has a brain you can see that they're like not trad pro-west or whatever

00:30:21.900 at all they they very much mobilize third world's resentment so much against the west but

00:30:26.220 but um yeah no sorry i'm sorry for distracting you though well i was just i i was just saying like

00:30:32.000 i i feel like the even you might not articulate in this way but a looming totalitarian threat i think

00:30:39.720 has made you a former bernie bernie sanders type embrace the west in in a way that you don't see that

00:30:48.660 here um yes yeah i mean that's that's true i think that's that's a probably good accurate yeah because

00:30:53.400 it's real and and i i think it's not real for so many americans i i think we're getting

00:30:59.260 dissociated from reality but we're also getting dissociated from the the myth of the cold war that

00:31:05.380 america is standing for anything i mean at at one point uh jordan peterson basically said that

00:31:13.660 putin sees wokeness encroaching it's not really nato or maybe it is nato nato is just armed wokeness so

00:31:21.500 it's like gays with guns that's what they say encroaching into russia and he he needs to rescue 0.84

00:31:29.140 christendom and it's so unhinged it stops here against ukraine and that's that was his way of 0.86

00:31:36.540 articulating something that i think is very very common whereas earlier the notion of being an

00:31:44.220 american i mean the soviets yeah you'd more likely call the soviets wogs or whatever that i don't really

00:31:51.360 use that term but you know what i mean and they were some asiatic totalitarian it's funny and we're 0.72

00:31:58.380 the iowa farm boy standing tall against you know everything that's unholy yeah it's very it's it's

00:32:06.060 very strange and i think what this means is that essentially like the russians have just mastered

00:32:11.840 propaganda and i think the funny thing the sad thing is that in terms of information like their

00:32:17.300 information war is like literally a thousand times effective than their like actual real world

00:32:20.880 military operations in ukraine yes because because like they they like dude it's been 11 years and

00:32:26.240 they're still they still haven't conquered the entirety of the donbass and yet they have actually

00:32:30.680 somehow managed to cleave off like a huge portion of the american right wing into thinking that like

00:32:36.100 oh where where the the so-called bulwark of the true sort of like white western world against like 0.77

00:32:42.480 you know like the globalist libtards who are importing like muslims like this is how they 1.00

00:32:48.220 present it right it's actually a funny irony because if you look at it like putin is way more

00:32:52.500 receptive to islamism than like any actual western leader like like you know like there was a there 0.93

00:32:57.820 was like some stupid propaganda third world a slot that he did a couple months ago and like shake 0.93

00:33:01.980 shake sulaimani that guy that nick fuentes tried to do the christian islamist alliance with um 0.95

00:33:06.600 like it's so funny this guy he's like a pakistani guy living in britain he shared it and it was like it was like

00:33:10.980 it was like putin kissing like a gold quran like in with katerov in like a chechen mosque it's like 0.96

00:33:16.360 it's like can you imagine if kia starmer did that like holy shit like every one of these sort of like 0.99

00:33:20.800 maga maga people would literally have a brain aneurysm if kia starmer was kissing a gold-plated 1.00

00:33:26.000 mosque i know it's like kissing gold-plated quran but um but putin literally does that and he literally 0.85

00:33:30.800 has quotes saying like diversity is part of russia's strength and all this stuff but it's um but he's

00:33:35.800 saying that russians aren't white is also an interesting thing there is this this comes from this um

00:33:40.940 former diplomat during the obama era is actually from montana uh he's kind of uh he's not the

00:33:47.100 sharpest knife in the drawer in my humble opinion i'm forgetting his name at the moment but he's been

00:33:51.820 very popular and he's taught at stanford someone will figure out his name in the chat but he claimed

00:33:58.060 in a washington post interview that putin held up his hand and he says you think we're white but we're

00:34:05.540 not white we're nothing like you and i i mean maybe that's more propaganda or maybe that's something

00:34:12.120 that putin genuinely believes in the sense that a combination of kgb inculcation cold war history

00:34:23.400 and even third world ideology leads him to believe that he genuinely is not like the golden building a

00:34:32.520 billion as he calls us the white people were just just just just so happened to be rich and it's all

00:34:38.120 the game is rigged on their behalf and and blah blah blah but yeah i mean i want to go into i think

00:34:44.440 that's so true yeah i think i think it's go ahead go ahead so i think it is absolutely third worldist

00:34:49.980 ideology and like it's amazing if you consider what actually is the distinguishing feature of like

00:34:56.220 russian nationalism like the past couple hundred years is that like they it's like anti-western sentiment

00:35:01.400 it's it's that it is it is about the fact that like you know russia is not the west russia is its

00:35:06.380 own sort of like civilization it has its own it has its own ethos it has its own special civilizing

00:35:12.240 civilizational mission that's how dugan talks about he says we are like we have a special

00:35:16.140 civilizational mission and you had you literally had dugan um there's an amazing thing where at one

00:35:21.240 of these conferences he was saying like like our war is not just a war for russia it's a war for all of

00:35:25.260 humanity because we've given so many opportunities to like boys from nepal and boys from latin america and boys from

00:35:31.000 like like the middle east and stuff like that to come and fight for us as like sort of like

00:35:34.280 like high-paid soldiers it's it's amazing some of the the ideals it was very deep there's early

00:35:39.940 soviet cinema um circus i believe is the one luckily we have my friend boris here who will correct me when

00:35:46.000 i mangle russian words or uh misremember various diplomats but uh there's actually a famous um soviet

00:35:54.760 era cinema in in which a a white woman with a black child escapes to the soviet union and and it's it's

00:36:04.160 almost like blm propaganda or something it's very it's very funny but it's like the black child in 0.99

00:36:11.560 racist america he's hated but now is a soviet citizen and you know he's embraced and uh it's it's

00:36:19.240 very fascinating they they they pull on a thread that that's actually very deep um but i want to

00:36:26.600 talk a little bit more about the propaganda thing because i i do find this fascinating and i totally

00:36:31.180 agree with you um i think boris might disagree with me here but anyway that russian propaganda is

00:36:37.940 quite sophisticated and is quite successful uh in fact and so can i say one yeah yeah go ahead sure

00:36:45.940 i i actually want to clarify very quickly as well like i'm certainly against the sort of like

00:36:49.740 like you know the the the wing that national social network guys in australia who are like

00:36:53.940 oh the world question like or the baltic question or like no so like the uh the slab question like

00:36:57.820 i actually think like slab of people like fully european and like i i do think that obviously i do

00:37:02.520 think that like russians are like the funny the funny reality is that like like if you look at putin 0.99

00:37:06.300 he's a white guy obviously but it's just it's just like a funny thing because like it's third world

00:37:09.660 ideology that's yeah i didn't want to say that though but yeah i completely agree with you yeah i disagree

00:37:14.960 with vladimir putin on many things uh including this question um but i i guess you know we we have

00:37:22.140 this idea of cold war era espionage happening at the highest level and philby being an example this

00:37:31.640 sort of excuse me art historian working in the highest levels of intelligence and and so on but i i think

00:37:41.200 and then there there's some other cases where there is just direct involvement in either an

00:37:47.780 intelligence agency or a mainstream media but i i think what they realized early on

00:37:55.440 has been the most powerful and that is i don't know if you remember that uh unsuccessful indiana jones

00:38:03.680 movie called kingdom of the crystal skull uh but it was it was the one that came out around the time

00:38:09.980 you were born in 2008 or something that uh when you were i guess you you were 10 wow yeah i would

00:38:16.780 have okay i was a full adult um so anyway that's funny um so indy is fighting the communist in this

00:38:26.120 episode and the the woman who is this georgian you know evil villainess um they found this alien skull

00:38:35.840 and it can kind of talk to people in this way and she says you know um you know we will reach

00:38:43.840 every sorry sorry that i had the dog oh no no problem you know we will reach every man woman in child

00:38:52.220 in america and we will make you think like us you will dream like us you will be us and it's this

00:39:00.600 terrifying notion of like radio waves coming going across the atlantic ocean into oklahoma or something

00:39:09.040 and make turning people communist and so it's a kind of metaphor for propaganda but i i think it's a

00:39:14.960 very good metaphor for propaganda because you can go into high level places and you might very well get

00:39:21.580 arrested or killed doing that but going into low level places is open season basically and so you

00:39:31.340 you know a lot of people you'll hear this from the tanky left or the right where they'll be like

00:39:36.480 oh they bought some facebook ads in 2016 and it was like jesus christ arm wrestling hillary clinton oh 0.96

00:39:44.000 that's so it's so stupid it's not stupid actually yeah that's how you reach people and that's also the 0.89

00:39:51.280 tip of the iceberg in terms of influence and so even you know there's like an rt model and i went on rt 0.99

00:39:59.620 a number of times uh back in the day and i basically they would have me on to say what they wanted me to

00:40:05.920 say in effect which was american foreign policies terrible iraq war bad blah blah blah blah but basically

00:40:12.520 they would allow you to say almost anything so long as it could be conceived as anti-nato so it's

00:40:21.180 like you know i disagree with obama and libya so that's sort of anti-nato or you know the iraq war

00:40:27.100 and the neocons oh you hate them ah that's kind of anti-nato too you know yeah we'll fold it in so

00:40:32.580 but you could also say i believe in aliens and that's kind of anti-nato or i'm transgender and

00:40:38.900 that's kind of anti-nato like any there was total tolerance so long as it could be directed towards

00:40:45.520 that end and a similar thing with tenant media which followed up rt and which i think was a very

00:40:51.580 small thing granted but it was the tip of the iceberg yeah of of how they think and so it's like

00:40:58.360 you you can go and bribe a diplomat in the state department or you you can find this official in

00:41:06.740 regulations and sneak in guns or whatever you can do all that or you can actually affect people at

00:41:14.400 the root level of a society and and do it in a kind of funny way like it's not the voice of america way

00:41:22.820 where it's like let's play elvis presley or rock music america great freedom yeah yeah that's that's

00:41:27.520 kind of above board you can affect their minds quite subtly and it's the nihilism yeah and nihilism

00:41:36.480 as well it's so different to as you say like the american model where it's like blue jeans and elvis 0.83

00:41:41.140 presley and and like making a natural positive case like you know our system democracy is the best

00:41:45.740 the amazing thing about russian propaganda and this is probably why it's most effective is the nihilism

00:41:50.120 inherent to it because they don't even try and say that they're better than anybody else they just say

00:41:53.640 everybody else is just as just as cynical and evil as us and like you can't believe in anything and

00:42:01.960 you can't trust anything you see and they just they also just take the pre-existing divisions that

00:42:06.640 already exist in society so this is what the tankies make fun of they go like oh well wow like is it

00:42:11.360 really true that the russians invented um you know like black nationalism in america for example of

00:42:16.540 course not of course not like like because you know one of the things that they did was that they

00:42:19.860 were funding like black nationalist movements in america or like they were funding they funded

00:42:23.620 hammers or whatever they were yeah yeah that sort of stuff yeah and and and people rightly go like

00:42:28.700 well it's not like they invented that and of course they didn't invent that this is a pre-existing

00:42:31.620 division that exists in australia in american society they acknowledge that and they actually

00:42:35.460 play on that so it's that is that is certainly the thing that um makes it so much more effective

00:42:40.240 than other forms of propaganda they don't even try and make a positive case for their system they just

00:42:44.900 they just look at your society the pre-existing fault lines that exist they play on those pre-existing

00:42:49.100 fault lines and it's all about nihilism and cynicism you can't believe anything you hear

00:42:54.180 there's there is no such thing as good in the world there's no such thing it's literally just

00:42:59.160 pure nihilism and and that's what it it works because there are already those existing divisions

00:43:04.760 in society there's already like a level of demoralization in the public and all this stuff

00:43:07.820 and they just they play it's a it's a much more effective strategy for subversion than just like

00:43:13.180 because imagine if they come in and they go like you know like we are we are a better model you

00:43:17.700 should follow our ideology which is like you know russian third world which is what they did 1.00

00:43:21.440 they would be like you know the kitchen speak with speech with nixon and and yeah and khrushchev it

00:43:27.380 was like we can make more blenders than you can yeah we're gonna crush you and so they don't even

00:43:32.040 bother suggesting such nonsense anymore nothing it's instead it's like reality isn't real like you

00:43:39.840 don't know yeah it's like very deep i think the only way that they actually try and say that

00:43:45.900 they may be better than america or better than like european cities is like there's that there's

00:43:50.180 that genre of slop content and it'll be those kind of like accounts that are like like in invincible

00:43:55.080 west or whatever it'll be a guy running it from pakistan or whatever and like they'll like take

00:43:58.960 it'll be like radio genoa is actually a better example and it'll be like they'll take a photo of

00:44:02.480 like the widest richest district of moscow and then it'll just be like you know girls walking down the

00:44:07.260 street and they'll be like what do you notice and then they'll take like a photo of like and then

00:44:10.780 they'll like juxtapose it with like the most multicultural area in like england like birmingham or whatever and

00:44:14.980 it'll just be like guys walk the other street who are like muslim and then they'll be like what do 0.76

00:44:17.880 you notice it's like dude you could go to chechnya and like do the opposite that's probably the only

00:44:22.840 one area where they like try and actually say like we've got a better when they try and do that whole

00:44:28.040 um we are more traditional we are more uh but that that as you as you have trad the hot girls yeah like

00:44:35.900 all hot chicks trad in russia that that's a that's a minority of their sort of propaganda approach 1.00

00:44:41.300 i i think i think the majority of it is more just like pure nihilistic slop like if you think you're

00:44:46.160 better than us no you're actually just as bad as us all that sort of stuff yes but what what does

00:44:51.800 the west have so i and and let me sort of set the ground for this bigger thought because one of the

00:45:01.020 things that drove maga people up a tree were rainbow flags in embassies so it'd be like the embassy 0.91

00:45:09.640 in romania and it would be like a transgender celebration or blm and i saw i mean i basically

00:45:16.380 get it and agree with their like you know being perturbed by this at the very least but i i i don't

00:45:25.040 think they're fully thinking it through because i i do think that that was public diplomacy and i do

00:45:32.000 think that that was largely successful public diplomacy and that the rainbow flag as cringe as

00:45:39.740 it is also suggest many things that straight people want which is that you know you you freedom

00:45:50.580 uh movies blue jeans u2 albums i've been going back to the 80s for these deep cuts here but but but

00:45:57.600 also just the ability to make money the ability not to uh be beholden to some you know oligarch

00:46:04.040 and and a bureaucrat or get drafted in the army etc it it's a metonymy i guess or metaphor of

00:46:11.820 a much bigger thing that actually still is attractive yeah you know if you're if you're like a woman 0.91

00:46:19.660 growing up in a society that's like still pretty feudalistic and you know you're subject to stuff like

00:46:25.040 arranged marriage and you know there's a there's a lot of direct like authority and control over

00:46:30.320 your day-to-day life it probably is like they're probably not thinking literally about you know

00:46:35.420 drag queen story time when they see that they would see a rainbow flag is like as a symbol of you can

00:46:40.280 choose what you want to do in your own life and and i understand that too listen i i do think that a lot

00:46:44.480 of work stuff is annoying i think it's annoying that they added the triangle to the pride flag i think

00:46:48.200 they should just go back to the normal flag before that uh before they added like you know the triangle

00:46:52.280 and brown all this stuff to it um i think it's interesting like for a lot of these mega guys i

00:46:57.860 think they literally think like the and i said this to richard hernani and i think he's like taken up

00:47:01.980 theme a little bit too because it's a funny line but it's basically like they think like oh because

00:47:06.280 the west has drag queen story time we should support russia and it's like no that's that's actually a

00:47:09.840 retarded reason to support russia like i'm not a big fan of drag queen story time myself but i'm not 0.89

00:47:14.720 going to then go out and like literally support the the enemies of my civilization that literally like

00:47:19.140 they literally are on state television in russia every day talking about nuking london and nuking 0.99

00:47:22.620 all these western cities i'm not going to support that because a fucking drag queen story time so 1.00

00:47:26.460 that's the annoying thing that's like the element to it that becomes annoyingly suicidal it's almost 0.99

00:47:31.180 like that part of the far left that i hate too which is like it's like a sort of like suicidal

00:47:34.760 approach like they they hate themselves they hate the west they don't want it to exist and then

00:47:38.940 you see that now as well on some a big part of the far right whether it's like like you know that

00:47:43.420 guy it was i think his name was like darren byler or something like that he was appointed

00:47:46.260 to a senior position at the state department by the trump administration like um darren beady

00:47:51.720 yeah darren beady he literally has very dangerous character very unhinged so he literally has posts

00:47:57.080 saying like i want he was essentially saying that like we shouldn't support taiwan because china like

00:48:02.300 taiwan has gay marriage and therefore like china should invade it it's like that's like an actually 0.99

00:48:06.240 like i'm i'm obviously i'm obviously like you know being a bit hyperbolic in in characterizing his

00:48:10.980 views but that's essentially he thinks like that yeah he basically thinks like that so i and i think

00:48:14.840 that's a really evil sick way to view the world because it's actually kind of like a mirror image

00:48:19.420 of the kind of like like far left tanky sort of self-hatred thing where it's like we are inherently

00:48:24.720 evil therefore an outside power should come and destroy us and it's actually it's also wrapped in

00:48:30.120 nationalism it's it's just this funny thing because you know it's like i i can even in certain moods i can

00:48:39.720 get into a anti-american sort of like new right french philosophy or or something in in the sense

00:48:49.760 that well you're making a lot of points it's sort of an aristocratic lament like the revolt of the

00:48:55.980 masses lament about democracy and gross capitalism and fat freaks shopping at walmart on black friday i

00:49:06.740 mean i get it i totally i 100 percent get it in fact but i'm i'm not american yeah go ahead go

00:49:13.900 ahead sorry i'm not to not to cut you but i'm not american obviously and like despite what i've joked

00:49:19.280 about that i am american but like i'm not american and like it can be annoying like when we get most

00:49:23.360 american but when we when we get elements of american culture that are annoying like for example like

00:49:28.620 when we get like these huge f-150 trucks that like australian streets like literally is not even

00:49:33.400 built to have these trucks on them and like like stuff like that i can get like i get that sort of

00:49:37.720 like french thing where it's like ah let walk his men like like the americane like that it is annoying 0.77

00:49:42.580 some elements of american culture are a bit annoying i can understand that but again it doesn't it's not 0.68

00:49:47.140 justifiable like it's not just about like literally kill western civilization kill everybody because like

00:49:51.920 i don't like f-150 trucks down small australian streets you know like yeah right i know i i totally get

00:49:58.320 that um but i i guess to go back with it is is that darren beattie um yeah again i i think darren

00:50:05.680 beattie is a a highly suspicious person to put it mildly but um someone like that they they wrap up 1.00

00:50:15.020 this sort of half-baked american anti-americanism within their nationalism and i i guess what i'm getting

00:50:23.920 at it it's getting at a it's something that's really wrong and so on so like

00:50:30.580 maga make america great again well what what do you mean by that what when were we great exactly how

00:50:41.420 are you going to do it and what they it seems like so many of their policies are contradicting

00:50:50.840 these kind of halcyon days of americana like the 1950s and the 1980s what was america doing in the

00:50:58.940 1950s we were paranoid about russia we were uh expanding abroad we were fighting wars in the far east

00:51:08.800 what were we doing in the 1980s well we had kicked the vietnam syndrome by then and we were moving

00:51:17.100 towards a global uh platform for what it means to be american and all of this sort of woke stuff or

00:51:25.100 liberal liberalism was born at that time so i get to to re-articulate what i'm saying here is that

00:51:31.960 trump seems to represent this end of the american century while endorsing the american century

00:51:42.500 in this unconscious way i i know i'm making this terribly complicated i know nietzsche said

00:51:47.880 the intelligent man is the one who can clarify a complex idea the fraud is the one who makes

00:51:54.520 a simple idea complex so i'm trying to clarify here but i i guess what i mean is if you look at the 0.94

00:52:01.700 instincts of maga it's basically fuck the world we don't genuinely don't care if ukrainians are bombed

00:52:10.460 and it's like we can use that money here at home even though they've just i don't even want to do 0.99

00:52:15.020 that yeah i know they don't even want to do that yeah but they they genuinely hate the rest of the

00:52:21.440 world yeah they genuinely don't like any sort of projection of power etc and and and yet they want

00:52:32.140 to kind of go back to a time when we could do that it's like i hate to break the news to you but

00:52:39.740 we are no long we are not more respected on the world stage now that trump is terrifying everyone

00:52:47.380 including islands islands full of penguins that trump is abandoning at least ostensibly abandoning

00:52:56.580 many um partners that he has a um that we've had long-standing commitments to that he's engaging in

00:53:04.700 creating alligator alcatraz for guys who mow your lawn like i you're not great again that that's not

00:53:12.900 a none of those things are a sign of greatness so you're hearkening back to this thing that you're

00:53:19.480 actually like actively destroying at the same time it's a very it's it's ambivalence i guess or or a

00:53:29.020 kind of inner contradiction to that question of what maga wants america's never been a little

00:53:37.200 nation state with borders where we yeah it's it's never been that in our entire history it's been a

00:53:45.300 frontier society and then it's been an imperial society beginning in the 19th century into the

00:53:52.120 20th century so what you are doing is ending american greatness now you're not doing it terribly

00:53:58.400 successfully because ukraine is still kicking and uh america week you can still buy whatever the hell

00:54:06.420 you could ever imagine at target due to globalism and so on but you know you're you're pushing towards

00:54:14.200 an end to something and so you're not you're not fully reflecting on what it means to be great and so

00:54:20.740 i it's someone who's saying maga's boomer logic i it's not it's something else boomer logic would be like

00:54:28.360 we're spreading democracy uh to to the iraqi women because america's the best and everyone

00:54:35.060 wants to be an american oh yeah everyone longs for freedom in their heart of hearts you know here's

00:54:40.220 my bible that's boomer logic what we see with maga is something different it's it's very provincial

00:54:47.120 it's very provincial that's the american heritage thing it's um it's very disturbing to me i've talked

00:54:52.600 about maga as a third worldist movement and i actually genuinely think it is so it's interesting you

00:54:56.560 say like what does maga mean and i think i think the core animating feature of like i think like

00:55:01.020 the core animating thing of maga politics is basically you know like it's demographic anxiety

00:55:05.500 they want to make australia they want to make america more white so i've i've had like sort of

00:55:09.380 people on the far right try attack me going like drew how can you say that maga is a third worldist

00:55:13.260 movement when we're trying to kick get rid of the third world that's what they all say to me the 1.00

00:55:16.660 far right when they attack me and this is the thing though right like one of the key

00:55:20.900 distinguishing features of what has made the west so powerful in like the more in modern history

00:55:27.000 is that um it's i guess it's almost like the old roman empire was able to expand citizenship

00:55:32.720 beyond just a very small tribalistic kind of conception of it and so like if you look at

00:55:39.080 studies of like you know weird psychology which is like northwestern european sort of psychology yeah

00:55:45.200 and i i think this is actually like one of the most admirable things about you know white people

00:55:48.780 it's funny because i'm not like northwestern european i'm not like full blood iron or anything

00:55:52.540 like that i i admire this about like the sort of like anglo sort of uh wasp type thing is that um

00:55:58.080 it's very non-racially tribalistic at all it's actually one of it's probably the culture on earth

00:56:02.760 that is most accepting of outsiders and that is probably what has made it the greatest or made the

00:56:08.480 west so powerful in the sense that like it has been able to incorporate so many different um

00:56:14.360 like instead of just being instead of just clapping to like race war like it is able to absorb people

00:56:20.020 into you know a greater conception of nationhood and citizenship and stuff like that and so it's

00:56:25.580 like they see that and they hate that element to it and it's like they don't want it to they don't

00:56:30.880 like that element of sort of like wasp anglo type of culture which is very much um accepting of

00:56:36.040 outsiders and very much um non-racially tribalistic they almost want to have the same mindset as like

00:56:40.840 yeah many tribes people or like pakistani tribes people like like very very poor feudalistic

00:56:47.720 societies that are very much centered on basically clan ties and fukuyama talks about this like one

00:56:54.320 of the distinguishing features of like modernity is you break down kind of clan ties and you absolutely

00:56:59.160 you're able to build up like a sort of civic conception of nation national nation and like and the

00:57:04.280 countries on the countries in the world that have that don't have a sort of civic identity and just

00:57:08.980 have pure race-based sectarianism they're shitholes like they actually are shitholes and um one of the 0.98

00:57:15.160 reasons i don't like zaran mondani's sectarian sort of outlook is like it is actually quite foreign to

00:57:20.880 america to sort of cut down every single person based on just their race and religious identity etc

00:57:26.800 so i i don't like i don't like that animating impulse on the left either when you it is like a sort of

00:57:32.220 identity politics project on the left well he thinks in terms of the communities it's it's a very

00:57:36.900 it's a kind of uniquely you know you new york thing but yeah it is it is to some degree but i i think it

00:57:44.300 is it's it's sort of bigger than that as well like i let me push back a little bit here because yeah

00:57:51.540 so you know i do want to say as well like i'm not a full blank slatist of course like like i saw some

00:57:58.980 like one thing that pisses me off like this is a big debate in in um in england at the moment like

00:58:03.720 like and people bring up rishi sunak i think rishi sunak is like culturally very english obviously he's

00:58:08.160 a different ethnicity to english and and i see like there's a lot of debate in england there was a guy

00:58:12.660 who was a senior advisor he's culturally a billionaire i would also say yeah yeah which is that is a

00:58:18.460 culture yeah true um but but there was a big thing you might have seen this on twitter the other day it

00:58:23.980 was like a former senior i didn't it was a former senior advisor to tony blair and a senior advisor

00:58:29.100 as well to julie gillard a shreyan prime minister and he was basically saying like there's no such

00:58:32.700 thing as the english ethnicity the concept of an english ethnicity is evil i think that type of 0.95

00:58:36.580 blank slatism is retarded i don't like that at all i think that's stupid all i'm saying though is that 0.99

00:58:41.220 it like when i talk about like going beyond pure tribalism though and having a much more civic 0.98

00:58:46.760 nationalist sort of conception the when i'm talking about that what i'm talking about is like

00:58:50.840 it's very much a different sort of conception to like the jd you know jd vance's thing in his

00:58:55.260 speech where he was like you know i my my ancestors are buried in the grave plot in west virginia and

00:59:00.120 like like like the and tucker court talk talks about that as well and like it's a very it's almost

00:59:03.740 like a sort of necropolitics very like very like depressing outlook where it's like like the whole

00:59:08.860 of society should be restructured in the sense that like you know we should all just be living down the

00:59:13.280 street from like you know where our our grandparents are buried like we we should not have mobility we

00:59:18.020 it's a very provincial it's a very sort of like it's very much yeah it's it's different as you

00:59:23.260 said it's very different to the sort of american frontier spirit so that's what i'm when i'm

00:59:27.180 talking about a more civic nationalist conception i'm i just definitely want to clarify i'm not

00:59:30.800 talking like the sort of like libtard blank slatist conception where it's like the idea that there's 0.99

00:59:35.420 even an english ethnicity is evil like i'm just sort of saying like i'm pushing back more against 0.96

00:59:40.200 like the sort of like little england provincial mentality where it's like jd vance is like if you

00:59:44.040 don't you know that thing josiah lippincott and like captive dreaming will always do on twitter where they're 0.99

00:59:47.660 like oh you don't have an ancestor who fought in the civil war therefore like fuck off you can't 0.85

00:59:51.280 talk at all about american politics and stuff like that like like trump didn't have an ancestor who 0.95

00:59:55.080 fought in the civil war like trump's family literally came to america after the civil war

00:59:58.960 so yeah like that's what i'm trying to get at but sorry for cutting you off well no you know it's fine

01:00:03.000 i mean roman paganism was in many ways tolerant and inclusive but in other ways not and and it's

01:00:13.020 important to sort of understand what it was because it wasn't like the wiccan woman down the block who

01:00:19.660 owns a used bookstore and yeah i know you know everything's cool like you know like oh there's

01:00:25.140 jesus and buddha and like and like the witches and odin and like that that's total silliness they

01:00:32.140 there was absolutely a hierarchy in the pantheon and jupiter was on top uh but that didn't mean that

01:00:41.820 you couldn't like organize through subordination other gods within that realm so i guess what i'm

01:00:49.800 what i'm saying here is that it was a certain yes and no i mean like because it's there's a certain

01:00:58.740 white supremacy or wasp supremacy that was at the heart of americanism in the sense that

01:01:07.060 yes we were expanding behind beyond our borders yes we're going to tolerate like a greek orthodox 1.00

01:01:15.980 christian and a jew and an atheist even but you're all sort of protestants at the end of the day like

01:01:23.140 there what i mean is you can't get away from there has to be something holding it together i mean samuel

01:01:31.700 huntington talked about tomato soup and you can kind of put some salt in there and some croutons and

01:01:37.360 maybe some cheese or cream but it's still tomato soup like it's a little bit it's it's not exactly a

01:01:45.000 melting pot in terms of blending it's it's a it's a slightly different metaphor um look but yeah go on

01:01:53.100 look like like i do want to clarify like i disavow white supremacy and all this stuff um like like the

01:01:58.700 oh i never accused you of avowing that i'm just looking at reality yeah but but but um what i'm

01:02:05.120 gonna say right like i think the problem is cultural relativism so i think the problem is that migrants 0.99

01:02:11.140 come to western countries today and we've become so demoralized and self-flagellating and like we

01:02:16.320 just hate our own culture so much and all this stuff that there is no expectation that people you

01:02:21.220 know become part of the greater whole so there is no such thing as a greater whole anymore and i think

01:02:25.940 that's the big problem right i think yes and i've said this right like i i am certainly somebody

01:02:32.300 like i'm in favor like like i'm against the sort of like joel davis where it's like you can't have

01:02:37.980 even a single non-genetically pure iron in your country like that's retarded i think like i i favor 0.97

01:02:43.440 some degree of migration and cultural diversity and stuff like that and pluralism but i think there

01:02:48.380 should be a unifying feature of society i think there should be a unifying culture that people

01:02:52.580 assimilate towards like and i've said this before like greeks represent like 1.5 or 2 of australia

01:02:58.580 if we represented 50 of australia i would have gone to a fully greek school i would have never

01:03:03.260 assimilated i would have been growing up in a fully greek neighborhood only speaking greek and i would

01:03:07.800 have probably had like race resentment towards like like all this stuff right so i think part of it is

01:03:12.760 like like i want to say like i i'm not like i'm certainly against like sort of like white chauvinism i'm

01:03:17.580 against like um i'm against like uh like the whole thing where it's like you know 90 everybody

01:03:24.420 only 99.9 pure irons can live in the ethno state like i think that stuff's retarded but 0.97

01:03:29.480 but at the same time i think people there needs to be a common project that people are assimilated

01:03:35.040 towards and i think right that's a big problem in england like when you see stuff like for example

01:03:39.340 based on current demographics english people are going to become a minority in england and then some

01:03:43.300 people on the left are like like oh well it doesn't matter at all it literally doesn't matter at all

01:03:46.320 and i think that's stupid because like like at the end of the day there should be a country called

01:03:50.800 england for english people i think that people from a non-english background can ethnic background can 0.66

01:03:55.740 live there and assimilate towards englishness and become english culturally etc but there should at the

01:04:01.060 end of the day be a country called england for english people and i think this idea where you can

01:04:05.040 just literally swap out everybody and everybody's blank slate i think that's part of silly so i hope i've

01:04:10.520 been able to clarify my position where where i'm like i am a civic nationalist i'm certainly against

01:04:15.400 sort of like white chauvinism and stuff like that but i'm certainly also against like blank slateism

01:04:19.820 to the extent where it's like you can literally just swap out everybody and you can just have

01:04:23.840 like literally some people you see some people in the far left who are like yeah the great replacement 0.99

01:04:27.400 is real and we want it and that's stupid and insane and psychotic so i'm against that sort of stuff 0.97

01:04:31.960 i hope i've been able to clarify well yeah i understand where you're you're you're you're kind of 0.98

01:04:35.880 on the fence in a way or compromise i get it but i but that's probably how most people think in fact

01:04:42.760 so i don't i don't begrudge you like like but like like like look i think part of the problem

01:04:48.680 right is that i've look i sort of i'm greek right but i'm greek by ethnicity but i certainly i think

01:04:55.280 i've basically become pretty assimilated into like sort of like white australian sort of identity in

01:04:59.880 the sense that like i if i went to live in cyprus like i would feel like a foreigner there in a sense

01:05:04.700 that like i don't speak greek i i i think like like i i actually i get greeks sometimes say to me like

01:05:10.160 because i'm a big supporter of ukraine and there are a lot of like greeks who have like

01:05:13.040 this sort of like communist third world conception where they hate nato and they're like they'll say

01:05:17.420 to me like like you malacca you are against the greek nation you are supporting like the whites 1.00

01:05:22.240 you've become too westernized and stuff like that the thing is i literally am very westernized in my

01:05:26.120 outlook and stuff like that um i don't know where i was going with this but but essentially like i i guess

01:05:30.820 the thing is like because i've become so westernized i probably have internalized that sort of like um

01:05:35.440 that sort of like wasp thing where it's like i don't i do get uncomfortable with racial

01:05:39.200 tribalism stuff like that i don't like racial tribalism i would like to have an a society where

01:05:44.040 people have different like like we we have a strong american or a strong english culture but

01:05:49.580 people of different groups can live in that society assimilate towards that and they don't think of

01:05:53.580 themselves as separate like zaram and daddy and they don't mobilize race resentment and stuff like

01:05:57.520 that i would like to have a non-racially sectarian society and stuff like that and like yeah yeah but

01:06:02.900 so momdami i think also believes in this maybe uniquely new york thing of the communities so it's

01:06:11.400 like you have all in these cultures are sort of defined by food and and that's why you see that in

01:06:17.500 all of his ads where he's now eating rice with bare hands which is uh in my opinion a bit off uh but

01:06:24.280 it's he doesn't i i don't know what to say he wants to like build more of these communities that's what

01:06:31.020 america is it's a bunch of people who don't quite get along i guess we're all new yorkers as they like

01:06:37.380 to say but none of that makes sense outside of some sort of tribalism outside of the fact that you

01:06:43.900 don't like each other and you don't want your daughter to marry a muslim man or you don't want 1.00

01:06:50.780 your jewish son to marry a atheist chick in williamsburg or whatever it only makes sense based 0.81

01:06:57.640 on tribalism and yet it's sort of this soft kind of oh yeah you you know you eat halal meat

01:07:04.720 you know uh i think i think i understand the mindset because i want burritos or something it's just

01:07:10.320 it's just not i don't know there's no there's no there there to what he's doing i think i understand

01:07:16.060 the mindset because like once came from that kind of like left wing blanks latest like approach where

01:07:21.220 like i think like five six years ago like i it's funny because like back then you know i was 18 i was

01:07:26.780 much more immature and everything and like like when all these leftists started attacking me saying

01:07:31.280 you're a white supremacist for opposing the chinese government i think like my approach when i was like

01:07:35.320 20 years old because i was much more immature and younger and stuff like i tried to like out left them 0.77

01:07:39.060 and i used to be like well i'm not white i'm i'm actually greek which is people of color and stuff

01:07:43.020 like that which is like it was all cope you know it was cope i was trying to like i guess i was trying

01:07:47.120 to like you know it was like virtually you was like trying to get like oppression points almost sort of

01:07:51.380 thing and i i think um but i think i understand the mindset because back then when i had that type

01:07:56.820 of mindset i used to think like oh like you know if these societies were like much more diverse there

01:08:01.380 will be less racism but it's it's actually the opposite like i actually think as they become

01:08:05.520 more diverse there's more racism there's more sectarianism um if you especially if you don't

01:08:09.840 have a conception of assimilation you don't have a idea that you know that our culture is good and

01:08:15.780 people should assimilate towards it um i think it just like then you just literally get

01:08:19.840 you get slavia in your inside your country and that's not a good approach at all so um i think 1.00

01:08:26.800 i think in my own naive like sort of like leftist internationalist worldview when i was like 20

01:08:31.520 like if you ask me i think i actually can kind of understand how they think because i once thought

01:08:35.300 like that i think like i think i thought like racism bad therefore therefore like you know mass

01:08:40.460 migration will lead to less racism and it's like no dude that's actually not going to be the case at

01:08:43.780 all i think actually unfortunately like you look at countries like britain this there's going to be

01:08:47.240 massive amounts of really psycho scary terrible sectarian conflict and race-based conflict and

01:08:52.380 i don't like that i don't like race wars i don't like race riots and stuff like that i don't like that

01:08:56.480 to happen and um if we have like complete open borders i think that partly is an inevitable

01:09:01.860 inevitable outcome there will be a lot of sectarian conflict and and you know rioting and racism in

01:09:07.020 society unfortunately all right let's shift the subject of the conversation to israel so yeah that's

01:09:15.500 a big okay well i i tweeted this out and i've said other people i've seen other people tweet this out

01:09:20.880 as well where yeah you know because everyone lines up in a kind of curious way on all these questions

01:09:27.560 and if you're pro-ukraine and pro-palestine you're a libtard yeah it's like left it's like left 0.81

01:09:37.600 in anti-imperialist type stuff anti-authoritarian supposed to be oh maybe um no i disagree let me finish

01:09:44.880 okay so if you're if you're pro-palestine and pro-ukraine you're a libtard or richard spencer i guess

01:09:52.700 like uh you're you're one or the other yeah uh if you're pro-palestine and pro-russia you're a tanky

01:10:00.900 if you are pro um uh pro-ukraine and pro-israel you work at a think tank in washington dc you're

01:10:11.500 like you're like david frum you're like you're like an atlanticist yeah yeah exactly okay and then

01:10:16.440 if you are pro-russia and pro-israel you're pretty evil yeah look you're mega though because that's 0.99

01:10:25.600 mega yeah look and it's a that's pretty much a khanist kind of worldview and listen i'm very much

01:10:30.620 against i'm very much against khanism and look look i i think israel should exist as a country um and i

01:10:36.860 think that basically makes me a zionist right but at this end of the day i'm certainly not one of those 0.83

01:10:40.800 like there are obviously different ideological currents within israel and there's like a lot of

01:10:45.740 like russian israelis who are like pro-putin and really extremely authoritarian and psychotic and 0.59

01:10:51.020 like i think that's really bad obviously yeah and i think and and look i've criticized nani yahoo's

01:10:55.360 foreign policy in the past because like he's been very pro azebeijan which is like i think azebeijan

01:11:00.140 is a terrible government they've been ethnically cleansing armenians he um he has in the path made 1.00

01:11:06.600 overtures to russia and and china i think perhaps less so because i think it's pretty clear in israel

01:11:11.560 right now that russia's promoting like a lot of this like like psychotic pro hamas hezbollah

01:11:17.160 propaganda shit online and stuff like that but in the past they certainly have made a lot of

01:11:20.700 overtures and stuff like that yeah i i do want to i do want to say um there is that sort of american 0.94

01:11:26.140 boomer like there's two wings to it right there's the there's the evangelical type ones where it's

01:11:30.400 like ten crews where he's like oh like you know i literally support israel based on genesis like

01:11:34.820 listen i'm a greek i'm a greek orthodox christian but that's not my conception at all i try and leave

01:11:38.960 religion religion out of it because i think it is like you're never going to be able to convince 0.93

01:11:42.600 people by going like oh you know this supernatural claim entitles me to this land i'm never going to

01:11:46.980 make that argument right um the other thing as well there is like this sort of old school kind

01:11:51.520 of american boomer right-wing thing where they're like israel's our greatest ally and like you know

01:11:55.940 i will die for israel and like you know ted cruz was saying that thing where he was um 0.96

01:11:59.380 in his talk like it was it was so annoying because like i fucking hate tucker um i've literally 0.99

01:12:03.800 protested against him in person when he came to brisbane himself i fucking hate tucker he's so 0.99

01:12:07.440 disingenuous he's i i thought his position on actually and i think his position on israel is 0.96

01:12:11.660 like very disingenuous because i think i think it's more coming from a sort of like nick fuentes

01:12:15.240 type place but he's like too scared to outright go that far but anyway but like like he's pandering

01:12:21.380 to nick fuentes's audience is what i see yeah exactly i want to say they're like ted cruz really 0.96

01:12:27.360 fucked up he just he made such a ass of himself in that interview right because you know there's that 0.94

01:12:32.680 part of him where he was like you know the number one thing i wanted to do when i got into the senate 1.00

01:12:35.620 was defend israel like that stuff is stupid that stuff is really dumb i actually think at this 0.98

01:12:39.440 point it literally is fueling anti-semitism and i would literally say to other people who think 0.98

01:12:43.040 that israel should exist in the country stop doing stuff like that because it's actually 1.00

01:12:46.220 like every time every time somebody like that in america does that or like bright that brian

01:12:51.100 that congressman who went to congress in an idf uniform and stuff like that like people like

01:12:55.000 nick people like nick fuentes come when they see that like it's bad it's you're giving them 0.98

01:12:58.800 so much ammunition stop doing that shit so listen my approach to it is different one part of it 0.96

01:13:03.980 is that listen i probably am a bit of a philosopher i like jewish people um i've had a lot of jewish 0.99

01:13:08.940 friends growing up and stuff like that i like jewish people um the other part of it as well is that

01:13:13.460 like i look at the issue and it's like all the people who really support the palestine issue um the

01:13:19.820 anti-zionists and stuff like that it's like the jackson hinkles of the world it's these people who are

01:13:23.280 like very much third worldist and like they you see so much race resentment and like there was a

01:13:29.800 beautiful one the other day like where there's this there's this like sort of like punk rock band

01:13:33.940 in australia called amal and the sniffers and they're very popular and literally our prime minister

01:13:38.320 our prime minister has met with them before and all this stuff and um and they were at glastonbury and

01:13:44.520 they had a um the lead singer was saying something it was really it was really low iq like she was

01:13:50.720 basically saying like the elites and the education system don't want us to talk about palestine because

01:13:56.460 when we talk about palestine in australia then we think that we are the she literally used the

01:14:01.460 word whiteys which i thought was so embarrassing and she was like us whiteys are the colonizers to 0.99

01:14:05.560 the indigenous people and and palestine reminds us of that issue and that's why they don't want us to 1.00

01:14:09.540 talk about palestine and so they sort of like link it into this sort of like broader we hate set the 0.69

01:14:14.100 colonialists and by that we mean white people and like i've seen people literally say like i remember 0.97

01:14:18.680 after october 7 um there were like there were like these like unhinged mentally ill white leftists who 0.93

01:14:23.820 were like some people were trying to mock them and say like well if you support october 7 america is 0.96

01:14:29.140 technically like a sort of settler society do you want that in america too and one of them was trying

01:14:32.520 to be consistent i think her name was gretchen or something like that she's like someone who had

01:14:35.680 like 50 000 and she was like listen i wouldn't enjoy it but if native americans rose up and wanted 0.99

01:14:39.980 to kill me like on october 7 i would hide but i wouldn't i wouldn't like say that they don't have 0.76

01:14:44.920 that right like i would accept it i'm like that's mental illness so right part of part of me is like 0.87

01:14:49.940 i see very much so that like it's mobilized this kind of like you know france for non-style

01:14:55.460 anti-west like anti-white people sort of like very much a race war genocidal mindset and i saw all

01:15:04.540 these people like they listen when october 7 happened i was just on twitter the whole day and

01:15:08.560 i saw like i saw like the piles of bodies of like old grandmas that they had shot up at a um at a bus 0.98

01:15:13.540 stop in southern israel i saw the aftermath of the nova music festival where it was like literally just

01:15:17.720 hundreds of teenagers at a music festival and like literally just they were just bodies bodies

01:15:21.400 piled on top of each other and stuff like that and like i saw these people go like remember that

01:15:25.720 famous tweet where that lady i think she was literally like somali-american she was like what 1.00

01:15:29.060 did y'all think decolonization looked like vibes papers essays lose that was such a that that tweet

01:15:34.300 is now like a load-bearing tweet in my worldview it literally that tweet alone has like like become

01:15:41.280 very much something that i think of in terms of my worldview because it kind of let lie like that

01:15:47.320 so much of this sort of like identity politics stuff on the far left which is all decolonial

01:15:51.660 and stuff like that they're like this is what we want to do to you and i don't like that so

01:15:54.860 i what i would say to you and your audience stretcher i know you're obviously coming from like a sort of

01:15:58.820 like more right-wing background and stuff like that and i know you're you're you we've got different

01:16:03.100 views on a lot of this stuff but um this stuff on the left like the anti-zionism honestly the vast

01:16:09.040 majority of them the reason they don't like israel is because they think israelis are white and then

01:16:13.160 they're like i yeah okay i agree with you and whenever i hear uh jackson hinkle bash israel or

01:16:22.660 some other crazy person i like israel more i agree with you but there's actually i think you're

01:16:29.180 engaging in a little bit of self-deception on on a few different levels that that i'll outline here

01:16:36.100 okay so i'm interested yeah first off the the tanky is a bit of a straw man tankies

01:16:45.220 are like one percent of the population that said though i think they've infected a lot of center

01:16:51.820 left politics so unfortunately so i think zaron's a good example of that way like zaron himself

01:16:55.860 maybe he's not outright a tanky but i think he's been influenced by it but yeah that's my but anyway

01:17:00.020 zaron i'll grant you that actually he's a he's a fairly unusual politician that's why he's making

01:17:08.080 waves and and so on and i'm not even so sure about that because he also has a disney background so i

01:17:14.340 don't know exactly what it makes but i guess what i'm saying is that there's been a sea change among

01:17:22.120 liberals there was a recent poll about israel and the perception of liberals over the past

01:17:29.060 three years has catastrophically changed it's gone down 50 or something like that so it's not just

01:17:37.880 like haze from twitter it's also a educated woman who is an episcopalian who are really turning on

01:17:48.460 israel so that's true that is true that's true that is a change and the other thing that i've noticed

01:17:53.880 because i was i graduated from high school when you were born or something like that but

01:18:00.240 is that even back in the day during the iraq war um israel was never discussed uh and if if it were

01:18:11.260 and if it was discussed it was discussed only in positive terms but in terms of like is the iraq war

01:18:17.940 good for israel benjamin met netanyahu might be saying that but that was not and look he was a

01:18:25.020 private citizen he was a private like i've seen people use that point a lot like oh netanyahu

01:18:29.080 recommended the iraq war like he wasn't promised at the time he was a private citizen when he testified

01:18:32.240 but yeah sorry go on regardless he recommended the iraq war that's true that's true yeah um but now

01:18:38.540 it's very different and i feel like you know the iran nuclear weapon thing yeah maybe they would nuke

01:18:47.540 new york city or whatever but it's a war for israel and i find it hard to even conceive of it otherwise

01:18:56.880 listen i when it comes to iran though like i know this might sound difficult for you to believe because

01:19:02.780 obviously like you look at my twitter i'm very much so like pro-israel and stuff like that i know

01:19:06.000 this might sound difficult for you to believe but look when i see iran like i've been i've been

01:19:09.920 anti-iran since i was anti-china like like i guess the way i see things very much these days is that

01:19:15.380 there's kind of like an axis and it's really russia china iran and they work increasingly together

01:19:19.340 and we both know as well that iran has like armed russia in ukraine they they did a lot of

01:19:24.320 technology transfer to help russia build up its drone systems like if iran had not done that

01:19:29.100 the russian drone systems you know that they're using in ukraine to devastating effect to kill so many 0.79

01:19:33.960 ukraines it would not it would not be um you know as effective so part of me as well like i i can

01:19:40.000 understand obviously obviously for for trump he's not doing it for ukraine they're anti-ukraine i

01:19:47.000 understand i understand that trump is you know pro-israel and he's anti-ukraine that's true

01:19:50.440 look the way i see it though is i'm not when i when i see them bomb the iranian nuclear facilities though

01:19:56.720 and i know you might not see this you might think this is not critical because like you look at my

01:20:00.880 twitter and people say you're a zionist shield but for me when they bombed the iranian nuclear 0.54

01:20:04.660 facilities i'm literally celebrating as somebody who's like listen they've declared war on the

01:20:08.540 west in the sense that they supported russia invading ukraine they support china as well

01:20:12.060 they're part of like this civilizational axis that's opposing the west and so for me it's not

01:20:17.320 even really like for me when they when they're going against the iranian regime i'm not even really

01:20:21.200 necessarily thinking of it's like we must protect israel that's the number one priority i'm sort of

01:20:24.860 thinking of it like this is one part of the three-part sort of tripartite axis i guess you can

01:20:28.700 consider dprk too and it's like and like they they hate us this is a disgusting regime that at the 0.90

01:20:34.340 end of the day like they do all this in psychotic islamist third world to slop against us they are 1.00

01:20:38.820 literally supporting russia slaughtering ukrainians and so i just literally see it more as like this

01:20:43.620 is good for the west what's bad for the iranian regime is good for the west that's how i see it and 1.00

01:20:46.600 i know people might say oh well drew you're pro you're pro-zionist and stuff like that you're just

01:20:50.360 saying that because at the end of the day you want to support israel to be honest i look i'm pretty

01:20:53.880 pissed off at nadiah i'm pretty much like i'm pretty much at the end of my rope when it comes to nadiah i think 0.98

01:20:58.640 like they shouldn't be doing what they're doing gaza right now like they've done a pretty terrible

01:21:02.700 war there um but when it comes to hezbollah and iran like the iranian proxies and all this stuff

01:21:08.240 like they they are at the end of the day part of this sort of like new world alliance against like

01:21:12.880 the west and whatever is bad for like the houthis and hezbollah and hamas and iran i generally pretty

01:21:18.760 think is pretty good for for the west i i understand that but so during i i think

01:21:28.540 we have an uh an assumption that israel is part of the west and yeah i i think i think it is we

01:21:36.160 assume that but do they assume that and to be fair here there's no doubt currents i think there's

01:21:43.960 different currents different currents yeah yeah and and to be fair you know if you walk down a street

01:21:50.480 in tel aviv it would resemble a western city to some degree now you could sort of say the same about

01:21:56.360 tehran in a surprising way but i'll leave that aside but that's true that actually is true about

01:22:02.640 tehran like the funny thing is i actually think like this might get people thinking that i'm an 0.61

01:22:07.520 idiot or i might get attacked this but i actually think like iranians are pretty white like they're 0.90

01:22:11.340 pretty like pretty yeah that's what they're the word iran means yeah i mean i mean like it's funny 0.99

01:22:19.320 because they're kind of wearing it on their sleeve yeah it is actually it is actually very funny

01:22:23.620 because like um it's quite interesting levantine populations i've seen there was this guy who was

01:22:29.400 a syrian al-qaeda propagandist one of their top propagandists and i saw a photo of him and he had

01:22:32.480 like ginger hair and he was wearing western clothes and i looked and i was like this dude could literally

01:22:36.060 be like a dad in america and like you can sometimes see this like in levantine populations

01:22:40.820 sometimes um people will look less european but sometimes you look at people and like they look

01:22:45.740 almost completely european which is really interesting yes so yeah so that's interesting

01:22:50.300 about levantine people that that is interesting but i mean the whole point of zionism is that

01:22:58.180 these european jews can't get along with europeans i mean otherwise zionism has no point zionism was 1.00

01:23:07.540 never defined as a outreach towards the west or outreach of the west towards the middle east it was

01:23:15.200 defined in the exact opposite manner of we we don't want to assimilate into german society say

01:23:25.200 and they don't want us either and it's just been heartbreak for years and we need to go home again

01:23:32.220 and reenact the book of judges or something like creating this new country so it's i don't you think

01:23:40.000 like the the the trick that the devil is playing on conservatives including yourself is to even

01:23:46.200 imagine israel as part of the west when it's fundamentally opposed to the west look look two

01:23:52.100 things here like one i'm i'm sympathetic to jews wanting their own state considering their experience

01:23:58.540 in world war ii with the holocaust and you know mass murder extermination stuff like that um look it's a 0.89

01:24:04.440 it's a very sad story because if you look at like say world war one um german jews were extremely

01:24:08.960 assimilated they they volunteered in the germ they volunteered in the german army to like a degree that

01:24:13.440 was higher than other other parts of germany um and like they a lot of these guys were still in the

01:24:19.820 end like slaughtered and persecuted and their descendants as well by by the nazis it's it's a

01:24:25.940 really strange story because if you actually looked at the history of german the the jewish population

01:24:30.660 in germany they were there was a very big movement within the jewish population there to to become

01:24:35.880 assimilated and become german jewish and a lot of the jewish people who got persecuted weren't did not

01:24:40.160 even think of themselves as non-german and stuff like that it's a very sad story so part of it is

01:24:44.160 that i feel sympathetic to them wanting a state given that really sad tragic history of brutality that

01:24:49.080 existed um the other part of it as well is that um i just think as well like if you look at the history

01:24:55.040 of western civilization i think jewish people have always been part of it like i think that's very much the

01:25:00.080 case i think there's been massive contributions in terms of you know um like literature art uh

01:25:06.500 philosophy science etc and and also here's another question as well like you get this sort of anti

01:25:12.740 zionist leftist jews um sort of like in new york city right and these guys will support zaran and

01:25:17.660 stuff like that and they'll literally say like like so i'm interested like are you kind of like a

01:25:21.180 neo-bundist type guy um richard in the sense that like you know how they're like the sort of like

01:25:25.380 leftist uh jews who are like they're like our home is wherever we live and and we don't want to 1.00

01:25:30.520 have a state in israel and and i i understand i mean i'm not on any i'm not on i'm not on any side

01:25:39.900 in in terms of their business i mean but yeah like sam cedar i i i think i was talking about him on the

01:25:46.780 podcast last thursday i would imagine that sam cedar understands himself as jewish i don't think he's

01:25:54.500 like a secret zionist or something i think he he thinks that home is where you hang your head

01:25:59.980 why do we need this country but it also like even the notion of a safe haven raises a lot of

01:26:07.780 fascinating questions a safe haven from what a safe haven from whom oh let me finish yeah let me finish

01:26:14.800 so like after the second world war one of the ironies of the second world war is that europe became

01:26:22.080 more tolerant we're not going to do the fascist thing anymore but it became more ethnically pure

01:26:27.320 um tony jutt who's a left-wing or liberal i like that he's wrote about it he's an interesting history

01:26:34.120 interesting historian i like he nailed this on on a macro level like germans even german expulsion from

01:26:40.960 the soviet union made germany more german and jews had been killed many of had exited towards the

01:26:48.160 middle east and so you would have this kind of crazy situation where the the fascism sort of

01:26:54.640 won in some weird way and don't take that too seriously this you know you understand in a kind

01:27:01.380 of metaphorical way um but it's like most jews now are going to be living in the united states

01:27:09.220 so when uh people like ted cruz and they'll use a biblical argument of he who blesses israel will

01:27:17.120 be blessed etc but i love using that argument yeah but he'll also use the argument like that like

01:27:21.540 after the holocaust we've got to have the safe haven from whom from you are you an anti-semite that 0.91

01:27:28.080 you're going to kill all the there's a weird like none you you can't get away from that anti-semitic

01:27:35.180 logic and like endless victim narrative narrative of at some point the americans are going to turn 0.98

01:27:42.900 on the jews so what does that tell you about their basic conception i i think you have to i think you

01:27:49.820 have to understand though richard as well like like i mean two things here one part of it as well is

01:27:53.860 like half the population of israeli jews who live in israel are actually not ashkenazi they're mizrahim

01:27:58.980 so they're descended from populations in north in north africa the middle east central asia and stuff

01:28:03.880 like that where they were like they were essentially ethnically cleansed and expropriated

01:28:06.880 um it was you know you know what zaran's family experience in uganda with like idiom in

01:28:12.300 essentially expelling all the indian migrants that's basically what happened to like almost 1.00

01:28:16.840 the entire jewish population of the middle east and north africa and a lot of the time like they

01:28:20.940 don't have other forms of citizenship um they don't have like like there's this there's this

01:28:25.340 like strong narrative on the left where they're like oh there's no need for israel because all the

01:28:28.600 jews can go back to brooklyn it's like like half the population of israel the half the population of

01:28:32.160 israeli jews are guys like ben gavir who are actually like his family got kicked out of iraq

01:28:37.440 they were kurdish jewish people um and the the sad and the sad grim irony of all this is that um 1.00

01:28:43.860 it's actually the mizrahi jews who've been expelled from the north africa and middle east and everything

01:28:47.660 they're actually the people who are um probably the most supportive of things like kahanism and the

01:28:54.480 most ultra authoritarian and actually like like mindsets that are pretty foreign to western um you know

01:29:01.460 the western ethics and philosophy like kahanism is a horrible doctrine that is like very much like 1.00

01:29:07.400 not it cannot be possibly reconciled at all with like sort of like the like sort of like ethical

01:29:13.960 structure of the west and like you know the influence that has been passed down from both

01:29:18.360 you know like universalist humanistic ethics and and the enlightenment and stuff like that um part of

01:29:23.800 it i think is the the experience of having been expelled from the middle east of north africa

01:29:27.220 and um and also you know decades of terrorist attacks and masochism stuff like that the other

01:29:32.620 thing as well is that i i also can understand why that a lot of jewish people would think that there

01:29:39.360 should be at least a form of like a state for jews in the world considering like the very long history

01:29:44.440 of persecution that has existed right look i sort of see this thing in the same way that like you know

01:29:49.180 that book um and amy chua wrote where um she talks about like upwardly mobile uh maroto groups and

01:29:55.520 it's it's not just jews you see this um where like you know chinese minority groups in southeast

01:30:00.300 asia um you actually see this with lebanese in west africa um indians in east africa which was

01:30:05.100 zaran's family um you know a funny a funny dynamic is as well like partly also greeks um greeks are sort

01:30:11.740 of diasporic people who have especially in australia like went into small business and did pretty

01:30:17.240 relatively well um i think there are as many like greek billionaires in australia as like jewish

01:30:21.560 doing this you know i i think um i think part of it is like you know it's a diasporic people

01:30:26.160 and they were historically forced into professions that you know like like especially in europe they

01:30:33.220 were forced into like you know the professions like for example money lending and stuff like that

01:30:36.700 they were literally banned from other professions etc um and i think what amy chua talked about in

01:30:42.240 that book is that like minority groups that are sort of like um that do well in business and and

01:30:48.240 kind of like are upwardly mobile in a socially economic way socio-economic way and there's

01:30:53.260 model minority groups across the world that you can look at like this um they often become objects 1.00

01:30:57.780 of resentment in those societies and and then can then be targeted with terrible violence and stuff

01:31:03.140 like that and it's not just jewish people like like chinese people were massacred in indonesia in

01:31:08.380 like the 60s and and there is like a like look at what happened in uganda where all the indians were 0.87

01:31:12.940 expelled so i think part of it is like they don't have states i mean indians have a state

01:31:17.840 um greeks have a state at the end of the day a lot of these a lot of these this is the thing a lot

01:31:22.180 of these diasporic people do ultimately have a state like greeks have a state uh lebanese have a

01:31:26.000 state at the end of the day um so i i'm sympathetic at the end of the day to a jewish state existing

01:31:31.040 but i'm it's not just but i think it would be hypocritical if it was like the only state that i

01:31:35.420 wanted to see created or exist but that's not my record right like my record is i support a tibetan

01:31:40.760 independent state i support a kurdish state i support um i support the creation of a uigur independent

01:31:45.260 state i support taiwan as an independent state i support hong kong becoming an independent city

01:31:48.560 state so i think for a lot of people like ted cruz where it's like i can i can understand why

01:31:52.420 it's it seems suspect and weird if it's like this is the only state that they want to defend existing

01:31:56.980 in the entire world listen for my for my record i actually am somebody who has like a very long

01:32:01.820 history advocating for independent state and all these other groups as well so i i guess i do come

01:32:06.100 from a sort of genuine perspective like i do think nation states are good and should exist and

01:32:09.820 and i i do feel sympathy for them as a diaspora of people who felt a lot of persecution

01:32:14.560 throughout history okay i i definitely so i i think it's interesting i get it but yeah okay

01:32:22.780 it's certainly i think it's very different my mindset is so different to like a sort of like

01:32:27.000 ted cruz american boomer where it's like i will literally like i will literally die for israel and 0.99

01:32:31.200 it's like the greatest country in the world like i think that shit is cringe i think that shit is 0.98

01:32:34.700 cringe and i've actually never been like that it's more just like i think if you actually look at my 0.99

01:32:38.720 record where like i've been fighting for an independent tibetan state for like like half my life right

01:32:42.620 like like i it would look hypocritical if it was the if i was the if ukraine if israel was the only

01:32:48.300 thing i cared about but listen like i'm i'm just as big a guy on ukraine i'm just as big as guy on

01:32:52.340 so many different issues so it's different i think i think it is different when it comes to the issue

01:32:56.720 than some of the american boomer stuff project forward a little bit and i'll i'll bring our conversation

01:33:03.300 to ahead and to close with with yeah yeah project forward a little bit in terms of trump's first

01:33:13.200 year and what that means geopolitically and and just just to get you sort of thinking a little bit

01:33:20.980 um i definitely feared a uh a war in the middle east or or basically i feared what happened with

01:33:30.460 donald trump um over the past few weeks yeah now we seem to have averted outright well we're at war

01:33:38.880 with iran in effect runs at war with israel in effect but we seem to have avoided the worst i did

01:33:44.780 think i did i did always think that i i never thought it would be boots on the ground and i thought

01:33:48.400 that sort of tucker argument was pretty disingenuous but i do see your point it is kind of a state of

01:33:52.800 course we we got close to it but also like america is at a stage where i i don't know where we're

01:33:59.920 going to put boots in the ground like we're not we don't put boots in the ground in ukraine we don't

01:34:03.440 do a no-fly zone in ukraine which i 100 supported we we like to sort of bomb and run and and i'm not

01:34:13.620 sure america really has the will to do what we did 20 years ago now i think it's you can make of that

01:34:20.420 what you will it's sad in in a way i didn't support the iraq war but it's sad that george w bush

01:34:26.280 fucked over american foreign policy for like generations essentially yeah that's a good way

01:34:31.660 of putting it yeah yeah but what do you think is is going to happen because you have all these like 0.88

01:34:37.340 sort of multiple pivots i i think to your chagrin i think that there is no doubt that the attack on

01:34:46.420 iran has benefited vladimir putin directly and that's one of the reasons why he has hung his third

01:34:54.300 world alliance high and dry and is basically not going to support iran and is going to maintain a

01:35:03.260 sort of strategic neutrality or even strategic that is interesting towards israel that is interesting

01:35:10.260 that is very interesting i see that yeah but how does this cut like where do you pivot i mean

01:35:16.100 someone like elbridge colby wants a pivot away from ukraine but not towards the middle east either

01:35:24.240 he wants to pivot towards china but this is the interesting thing about elbridge colby like he has

01:35:29.300 hundreds of tweets basically saying like i like basically calling into question whether it would

01:35:34.640 even be worth defending taiwan so it's really interesting like like what does he want to pivot

01:35:39.540 i know exactly i think i think it's interesting with elbridge colby because i think i think he's

01:35:45.220 tried to defend i think he's tried to position the defense of taiwan as something that can be

01:35:51.160 acceptable to mega people by making extremely transactional so saying stuff like he literally

01:35:55.500 made a post saying like if we defend taiwan and taiwan falls we should be prepared to pre-rig 0.90

01:36:00.240 every single anger every single tsmc plant with explosives which is fucking nuts because that is like 0.59

01:36:05.760 literally that's like golden propaganda for china in taiwan because they can then go to taiwanese 0.94

01:36:11.280 people and be like listen like why are you going to ally with people who don't even think that it's

01:36:15.840 yeah it's possible to destroy everything yeah yeah exactly like like why would you want to ally with

01:36:21.180 people who are prepared to scorch earth your country they're not even they're not even positive

01:36:26.500 that they will defend you or so it's golden propaganda for china which is a disaster um and you've got 0.93

01:36:32.060 darren beady darren beady literally had tweets saying like we should not defend taiwan because

01:36:35.660 they've dragged me in story time which is insane um so it is really disturbing and

01:36:40.040 maggot is just such a weird thing hey because like you look at you look at the big spending bill which 0.99

01:36:46.920 is crazy and like it will objectively make america a poorer and worse country it will objectively fuck 0.99

01:36:53.280 over the american economy and you had that really disgusting sort of like like disgusting cynical tweet 0.98

01:36:58.860 by jd mens where he basically said like it literally doesn't matter if we throw like millions of

01:37:02.780 people off medicaid because ice funding is going up and that was kind of like that was kind of him

01:37:07.080 going like full pakistani tribal mindset where it's like he's like literally like i don't care if my

01:37:10.540 country is poorer and will be worse off as long as we have like less white people or whatever and 1.00

01:37:16.060 you have nick fuentes you know when nick fuentes goes like i literally or just sadism yeah but go on 0.97

01:37:21.540 yeah yeah yeah and and you know that whole nick fuentes thing where they're like i literally want to

01:37:25.560 have a lower gdp if it means less indians and stuff like that that's what jenny right that's what like

01:37:28.700 dick fuentes so it's a very like third worldist mindset where like they actually want america to

01:37:33.820 be like a smaller weaker poorer country so long as it's more like racially pure and that is like 0.76

01:37:39.040 something that's like more reminiscent of like literally the politics of idiom in than like you

01:37:44.420 know anything more reminiscent of like a western country and it's very strange because their foreign 1.00

01:37:49.960 policy like they've basically they have basically fucked over every country on earth other than israel 0.83

01:37:54.780 and look even with israel like there are a lot of israeli sort of pundits and foreign policy

01:37:58.780 people who are like pissed that is that erupt that trump said like turn back the planes because 0.96

01:38:03.140 that day that day where he said they don't know where the fuck they're doing i think iran had killed 0.93

01:38:08.060 like five people in a residential complex in in tel aviv and israel wanted to like like the mood in 0.98

01:38:13.740 israel was like they wanted to go back and like fucking punish iran for that and trump said turn the 0.59

01:38:18.560 planes back and so even they feel pretty betrayed sort of thing so you it's as you said it's kind of just 0.69

01:38:23.360 like it's just well it's like a worst of all it's literally just worst of all worlds yeah it's just

01:38:27.940 because even the the big the one big beautiful bill is genuinely cutting medicaid that is our

01:38:36.180 socialized health care for yeah or and rural people while also expanding the bud of the the budget and

01:38:44.480 it's almost like even the ukraine funding of if you're not truly in it to win it you you are sort of

01:38:53.340 perpetuating pain well that's what they're doing in your kind yeah literally yeah and then with 0.70

01:38:59.540 israel you know trump is so mad at at israel for they don't know what the fuck they're doing but then 0.95

01:39:06.200 you are on their side bombing a sovereign country's nuclear facility i i don't it's it's just so i i don't 0.95

01:39:15.800 know i don't know where this leads the easiest way of interpreting it is simply that it's incoherent

01:39:23.140 yeah incoherent it's just like just a general vibe of like retrenchment and pretty much isolationism

01:39:29.660 it seems i don't know it's really the iran the iran strikes were really interesting because

01:39:34.460 there were some commentators i mean some commentators read the whole thing as you know

01:39:39.500 you know how trump in the lead up to them was talking about like we're gonna give them 60 days

01:39:42.700 to negotiate and stuff like that some people read that as he was really with netanyahu the whole time

01:39:47.900 and he was deceiving the iranians to lull them into a false sense of security but i actually think it's

01:39:52.840 much more likely there was another read on it where some people were saying he actually at first was

01:39:58.000 pissed off about israel attacking iran directly but then when he saw the success of them when he saw that

01:40:03.640 like iran didn't have air superiority and stuff like that and they were kind of collapsing he then

01:40:07.660 kind of just was like you know why not go in it was almost like an opportunistic thing and i think it

01:40:11.760 probably is more likely that it was the latter given trump is pretty incoherent and and he seems to make up a lot

01:40:17.040 of stuff on the fly i think it was probably more like he just saw that israel was doing pretty well

01:40:21.160 like because it's it's it's funny there was a lot of like third world's coping and stuff like that and

01:40:25.740 slop where they were like oh you know like tel aviv is burning half of tel aviv has been destroyed like

01:40:29.700 the reality is that israel was actually crushing iranians like their military apparatus was was

01:40:34.560 really weakened very quickly and i think it was probably more opportunistic by trump so it just it

01:40:39.620 doesn't seem like there is a coherent doctrine it's just a general vibe of like retrenchment and

01:40:43.640 isolationism and i posted this last night this is the funny thing right like if they wanted to do

01:40:48.860 true populism if they wanted to do actually if they wanted to pursue actual popularism and actually

01:40:55.700 popular mega populist movement what they would do is they wouldn't have like a kind of bernie sanders

01:40:59.860 2015 style grand bargain where they would be like remember when bernie sanders was like oh open

01:41:03.780 borders that's a ko brothers idea they would basically they'd basically be like listen we're going to

01:41:07.660 close the borders but at the same time we're going to increase how we're going to put money into

01:41:11.520 health care we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna almost do like the bernie sanders 2015 program i

01:41:15.660 think that's what what that's what real popularism would be if you look at the polling in the american

01:41:19.300 public they basically want a lot of social democratic policies i think in the economics but they want to

01:41:23.720 close the border if that's what i would do if i was the president that's what i would do i would just

01:41:27.400 be like listen we're going to close the border and we're going to do sort of like like we're going to

01:41:30.920 do you know investment in the country's infrastructure and public health care and public goods and stuff

01:41:35.640 like that that's what would be popular but that's not what it is instead it's just this worst of all

01:41:40.680 worlds where it's like we're going to like basically we're going to spend more money on the national

01:41:47.000 debt while cutting benefits but yeah we're going to radically increase enforcement of yard workers

01:41:54.740 and throw them into camps and it really is just but we're going to increase in legal immigration

01:42:01.040 like h1b i mean it really is the it's incoherent it's the worst of all popular world literally 0.64

01:42:08.200 literally the worst of all possible worlds yeah literally the worst of all wars and look look if

01:42:13.180 i was somehow like if i just was magically the president what i would do is i'd literally do

01:42:17.000 the bernie center 2015 program where it's like we're going to close the border but at the same

01:42:20.640 time we're not going to just take 10 million people off medicaid we're actually going to expand

01:42:25.160 public you know investment in public goods and stuff like that i think that's what if they were

01:42:28.980 real popularist that's what they're doing that anyone who did that in american politics i think would

01:42:32.280 actually be like unassailable i think that'd be so popular it would literally be a dynasty forever it'd be

01:42:37.520 like that would be the fdr i like this theory that american politics works on sort of like

01:42:42.480 generational style alignments and you know they had the big fdr alignment for 30 40 years and then

01:42:46.720 you had and then you had the kind of the reaganite alignment and the current system of alignment is

01:42:50.680 kind of breaking down and people are looking for that new alignment i think that would be the new

01:42:54.280 alignment if if someone came in and they were like listen we're going to do massive investment in

01:42:59.040 you know infrastructure and public health care and all these different things but we're going to

01:43:01.920 close the border that would be so unbelievably popular um and the funny thing is a lot of

01:43:08.080 hispanic americans actually would support that a lot of black americans would support that closing

01:43:11.200 the border what they don't support is just like the sort of unhinged guys in masks going around and

01:43:16.060 just literally black bagging people and it's funny because even like even curtis yarvin was like

01:43:20.140 like and he's the biggest guy ever but even he was like don't do black bagging because it's 0.98

01:43:24.300 fucking it just scares people and it's deranged and makes people scared and you're not going to 0.98

01:43:28.660 co-op you're not going to co-op parts of the elite by just black bagging people people get scared 0.99

01:43:32.560 so it literally just makes no sense it is just incoherent low iq slop and it's sad like it's

01:43:39.500 such a waste of like it it will cause generational pain i think for america it's actually very

01:43:44.520 what a what a sad thing that like what big what the big beautiful bill will do it'll literally

01:43:49.660 cause generations of it'll cause decades of harm for america it's a disaster 0.80

01:43:53.440 if you were american would you be would you have voted for kamala harris as i did

01:43:58.780 i would have i would have voted for kamala harris so i did i didn't do it but look it's very difficult

01:44:03.260 for me because i i guess i'm kind of i guess my sense would be sort of like richard hanani's stance

01:44:08.580 where it's like it's kind of like democrats the party of elite human capital i do agree with that

01:44:11.960 but i really don't like the zaram wing i really hate the zaram wing like the zaram wing is kind of

01:44:16.520 like a race war wing it's like kind of like a race war communist wing and i really really don't like it

01:44:20.260 and like my sense is like my sense is actually like the old anglo wasp tolerance sort of thing

01:44:25.880 where it's like i don't want there to be race war i don't want there to be race whites right let's 0.90

01:44:29.340 have a level of tolerance let's have like you know a idea of a national you know national unity civic

01:44:34.680 nationalism stuff like that i i think people like zaram they're actually almost just as focused on

01:44:39.760 race as people on the far right it's really deranged and kind of scary yeah what were you saying

01:44:45.960 about that like there are all these indicators of a civil war in great britain

01:44:49.600 politician analyst let let let me quickly google the guy who says that um british civil war

01:44:56.780 it's interesting you should you should maybe interview him on your show or something like

01:45:01.260 that i would like to yeah um where's king's college london so it is a shame because i was

01:45:07.080 actually agreeing with so much of what he was saying but then you david betts david betts so

01:45:11.080 i was i was listening to his podcast and and i was agreeing with so much of what he was saying

01:45:15.860 because i think there is so much sectarian conflict in britain and i think there are a lot of terrible

01:45:19.580 indicators of like state failure in britain but then he just like he just like popped in this like

01:45:24.100 little z-tar thing where he was like oh and like the west is going to be decisively catastrophically 1.00

01:45:28.620 defeated in ukraine and that's going to lead to like civil war in the west i was like i don't think

01:45:32.420 we're going to be catastrophically defeated i i think these you know these civilizations

01:45:37.160 die by suicide and i think ultimately the domestic policy is going to dictate foreign policy and it's 0.57

01:45:48.520 not going to be the other way around it's not going to be a putin takes keith and americans become

01:45:54.940 humiliated and then descend into civil war it's that we no longer believe in ourselves we no longer

01:46:02.460 believe in the west we're caught between third world maga ism and third world zoron ism and yeah

01:46:10.920 there's no real west to defend because you know zoron someone pointed this out zoron never i think you

01:46:16.640 pointed this out zoron never once tweeted about ukraine and never yeah never once you don't have to i

01:46:24.360 guess but it is quite telling and that he tweeted about almost everything else and he's a a politician

01:46:30.820 america he doesn't care about ukraine and he might simply he might sympathize with russia as like the

01:46:36.560 third world taking revenge on america's puppet and so there's no more west to to defend with any of 0.73

01:46:44.540 these camps with third world maga third world momdamiism etc look look being being sympathetic to zoron i i

01:46:51.200 think it's probably more likely that he has he probably would just have the generic sort of like

01:46:54.780 liberal view you know like the palestine ukraine flag combination i think that's probably more likely

01:46:59.100 but it is very telling that he didn't tweet it out yeah he didn't care at all and look the

01:47:03.340 interesting thing with zoron is like to be honest there's a lot of topics he hasn't covered like

01:47:06.860 like even like i i researched i i wanted to find out if he'd ever talked about the uigur muslims like

01:47:11.380 i've got thousands of tweet tweets talking about the uigur muslims he had like one single one where

01:47:15.180 he misspelled the word so it is interesting like for him it's just like it's just like palestine is this

01:47:19.280 all-consuming obsessive issue where it like represents kind of like race war against the west i think

01:47:23.000 that's what he believes in and there was a really there's a really good account in britain called

01:47:26.860 and he wrote he made this amazing meme where he basically was like which way america and it was

01:47:32.880 like he was basically saying like this is the latin american effect latin americanification of

01:47:38.060 american politics where it's like it's like zoron is a sort of like lula type faction where it's like

01:47:43.180 it's like sort of like random like sort of like third worldist type sympathies it's it's very much

01:47:47.380 sort of like baked in race resentment and stuff like that but then you also have like on the sort of

01:47:51.700 maggot side maggot is kind of increasingly resembling like sort of like latin american 0.51

01:47:56.160 authoritarian court is cordialismos type slot politics where it's like so it's looking like 0.73

01:48:01.080 something out of like um it's like it's it takes most of its direction from like bukele which is

01:48:06.640 like at the end of the day like at the end of the day like el salvador is like a third world country 0.62

01:48:10.500 that's quite poor and dysfunctional i get i get that he's done pretty well getting the gangs off the

01:48:14.620 streets but like you shouldn't america should america's the most powerful country in the world why

01:48:18.820 would it take direction from el salvador it's crazy yeah that's that's insane or hungary or any of

01:48:24.380 these places that they now love yeah it is yeah dude hungary the truth the two countries they look

01:48:28.860 to are hungary and el salvador it's like america is infinitely greater than hungary and el salvador on 0.98

01:48:33.420 every single metric by far why the fuck would you look at it and the only explanation is that 0.98

01:48:38.200 it's it's a very provincialist kind of like very small worldview where they don't like america being 0.96

01:48:44.220 a big country they don't like america being a powerful country they they they very much i i think

01:48:48.660 the jd events thing where it's like i just literally want to be left alone near the graveyard

01:48:52.180 of my grandparents it's a very sad and miserable like depressing worldview that's a very depressing

01:48:57.060 idea of politics like just just be left alone in a little village next to your grandparents

01:49:02.020 gravestones i'm sure i mean pete some people want to do that sure i mean i don't want i'm not

01:49:07.180 someone who's a blake slater who thinks like every single small town in america should become

01:49:10.380 you know infinitely open borders but still but still still it's a strange worldview where like

01:49:16.300 the height of politics is just being around the corner from your parents grandparents gravestones

01:49:20.620 that's a very strange worldview right well let's do it let's do this um i actually need to go to a

01:49:29.900 the last few innings of a minor league baseball game where my kids are where they will be firing

01:49:36.080 up fireworks so there's nothing more american oh that's good that's good so actually one last thing

01:49:41.920 did you see that zaron zaron voted against making baseball the official ball sport of new york

01:49:46.820 i saw you it's like why i don't even know why but i don't even know why pure that's just pure

01:49:52.620 animosity and and dude it's funny it's funny because look look when it comes to sport i love

01:49:57.580 soccer i'm i'm not i've never even watched the baseball game in my life but like if i was a

01:50:01.220 migrant to america i would be voting against baseball because it's like that's your culture i know 1.00

01:50:04.780 it's just such an easy win it's a it's it's a uh home run so to speak so strange yeah no it's clear

01:50:13.440 it's clearly some deep resentment that he would do that but anyway i'm going uh yeah so i want to go

01:50:19.920 see these uh after the uh fireworks after the ninth inning but um i'm sorry we ended on a bit of a

01:50:26.080 downer note but i feel like the like i do maybe you'll agree with me i feel that it's hard to define

01:50:33.980 the west now and i feel like maggotism is here to stay yeah look it's a very it's a very depressing

01:50:41.720 situation where it's like yeah i i don't think that the left or the right are offering any actual

01:50:47.960 good political program right now it's pretty depressing it's really depressing yes definitely

01:50:52.440 but there's always some good things about life that uh keep our yeah nobody should kill themselves

01:50:58.780 nobody should kill themselves no yeah i agree i agree but um i've i'm really glad we did this and

01:51:04.380 uh i've been wanting to do this for a while and i really enjoy your your whole timeline even when i

01:51:11.440 disagree with you here and there but um i think you're doing great stuff so um thanks for being on

01:51:16.480 here and um hopefully we can do it again when world events uh uh bring us together and uh but thank

01:51:23.920 you very much for being here no no thank you richard despite having like very vastly different

01:51:28.980 political background it's an interesting discussion and like obviously we debated stuff like israel and

01:51:33.660 it was an interesting discussion i appreciate the discussion and thank you we'll do it again

01:51:37.780 yeah i'd love to all right thank you man thank you drew and um guys i will be back and we'll do a

01:51:44.280 a normal members only once i'm back next week but anyway i'll talk to you guys soon

01:51:48.380 thank you see you then see you bye

01:51:49.940 bye

RadixJournal - July 04, 2025

The West, the Best, and the Rest

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