The Zoomer Problem
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 9 minutes
Words per Minute
167.00334
Summary
In this episode, the boys discuss the rise of the male-dominated world of Only Fans, and the growing trend of "mansplaining" on the internet. They also discuss Nick Fuentes and why he's one of the best stand-up comedians in America.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
I have heard of Fresh and Fit, and I think I learned a little bit about them when Hannah Pearl Davis, we talked about last Thursday, was on their program.
00:00:16.900
I mean, one thing that I have noticed is that there is this new genre of, how do I put it into words, normie sex talk with edgy, outrageous commentary?
00:00:33.500
Is that the right, you know what I'm talking about, the whatever podcast, which I've never listened to a full podcast.
00:00:40.380
I couldn't even imagine doing it, but I'll see these clips on Twitter of, you know, whatever, and black Helvetica letters in the background.
00:00:49.040
And then they'll have like an OnlyFans girl, and she'll be like, yeah, you know, I'm earning so much money.
00:00:55.760
And then they'll have a, like, Christian dad, or like young Christian dad who'll be like, let me mansplain this to you, all right?
00:01:05.400
Doing porn is not good, and that's going to come back to bite you.
00:01:09.060
I'm just saying, many men aren't cool with that.
00:01:11.920
And then they'll have like an obese transsexual who'll be like, I'm a 10 or something.
00:01:18.260
And I think it's just there to kind of generate content and generate commentary and so on.
00:01:25.340
That seems to be a fair and accurate representation of what that genre is.
00:01:30.780
Mars, on a previous conversation, Mars, I thought it had a pretty good summary of the trend.
00:01:36.760
He said, you know, previously, the big, like, you know, standard video was liberals getting destroyed with facts and logic.
00:01:44.920
Now it seems to be, the current trend seems to be women getting destroyed with facts and logic.
00:01:52.340
But, you know, sorry, I'm jumping into interpretation here, and I'll let AA have his due as well.
00:02:02.340
And what I mean by that is that, okay, these guys are saying, you know, you're not going to get a good beta Christian husband and get a house in the suburbs.
00:02:19.380
And, you know, I know that OnlyFans, like a lot of things, is effectively a tournament.
00:02:25.580
That is, there are one or a dozen or maybe a hundred winners, and then everyone else is a loser.
00:02:33.760
And so there's, you know, thousands of girls on OnlyFans.
00:02:36.940
And you hear these stories of them earning $20,000 a month or $200,000 a month.
00:02:44.300
But the reality is that the vast majority probably, there's probably an 80-20 rule, and then there's an 80-20 rule within the 20%.
00:02:52.560
The vast majority are earning 20 bucks a month at most, but giving the same product.
00:03:01.140
I think the average is sub 200 bucks, is what I've heard.
00:03:07.020
Average is a very deceptive thing, as many people said.
00:03:10.320
Like, if there's a bar with six people in it, and then Bill Gates walks into the bar, the average income is now $100 million, but no one is richer.
00:03:20.640
So it would be interesting to look at, like, you know, median or 80, you know, look at, like, what are 80% of the, what is the average of 80% of OnlyFans?
00:03:37.100
But anyway, Nick went on a program, like, I presume that Fresh and Fit is like that to a large degree, though it has a manosphere quality to it.
00:03:47.660
But here is my kind of ironic defense of Nick Fuentes.
00:03:54.180
I think this is the best Nick Fuentes, because he's just being this elfin comedian and talking about how he's an uber Catholic and he loves Hitler and Putin is based.
00:04:12.620
I do think that Nick can actually have a hot take, so to speak.
00:04:21.140
I think he can bring a perspective to contemporary politics that isn't just, you know, rah-rah team.
00:04:28.100
I think he is actually capable of that, to give him credit.
00:04:32.020
But maybe he's best at being this, like, crazy little Zoomer kid wearing a sweatshirt talking about Hitler and how he wants to marry a 12-year-old or whatever.
00:04:42.940
I mean, as off-putting as all of that is, maybe that's kind of, like, the best Nick.
00:04:56.380
I mean, in a way, Richard, I think it's the only Nick.
00:05:06.720
And I think that, I mean, among several other things on Twitter, I'm probably known by some people for being, like, relentless in my dunking of Zoomers.
00:05:21.860
And I think that Nick Fuentes is, in some way, emblematic of this.
00:05:27.960
You know, this kind of kid who's essentially got nothing to say.
00:05:32.240
See, this is the thing that I find kind of simultaneously kind of fascinating, depressing, and infuriating,
00:05:42.180
is that, you know, the Internet has kind of democratized and leveled the playing field when it comes to anybody with a microphone now has a voice.
00:05:54.740
But the Zoomers, for me, are kind of like a, they're like a unique ground, like a kind of cultural and historical ground zero.
00:06:13.480
I mean, I remember growing up in the 80s and the 90s, I was surrounded by boomer 60s culture.
00:06:20.860
And I remember reading, like, Rolling Stone and things like that.
00:06:23.780
And they were right in such a way that it was like, oh, the world was boring and gray.
00:06:29.720
And there was just, like, Frank Sinatra and old crooners.
00:06:34.120
And then it was Bob Dylan and the Beatles and rock and roll and the 60s had, like, invented culture.
00:06:40.940
You know, there's that kind of boomer version of the ground zero, right?
00:06:45.400
But even the boomer version of the ground zero had some semblance of connection with context.
00:06:53.780
Yeah, don't you think they were almost right in a way?
00:06:56.340
I mean, not that we shouldn't criticize them, but there actually was something edgy and kind of creative about that period.
00:07:06.080
But you don't know what it is, Mr. Jones, or whatever.
00:07:08.760
Or, you know, you can just see it in the songs, like, Roll Over, Beethoven, or whatever.
00:07:14.240
There was an element of self-consciousness that was going on with the boomers,
00:07:21.180
because they at least had the privilege, I guess, looking back, of living in a time and place
00:07:29.540
that was only just beginning to fall apart, you could say.
00:07:32.500
And from the European perspective, certainly, was also trying to put itself back together
00:07:43.760
I mean, whichever side your country was on in that conflict,
00:07:49.600
it was just absolutely devastating to the world order as it existed before 1945.
00:07:54.940
And so a lot of what happened in the 60s can be seen as a kind of an attempt to find...
00:08:01.280
I mean, in politics, they called it a post-war settlement, right?
00:08:04.340
But that kind of happened on a cultural level as well.
00:08:07.280
And there's all sorts of interesting things you can say about boomers.
00:08:09.520
But for me, the Zoomer, each individual Zoomer is like their own grand zero.
00:08:20.200
But unlike the boomer, who was doing something kind of interestingly countercultural,
00:08:34.680
I want to be hesitant of the language I want to use.
00:08:37.260
I know the R word is banned on a lot of platforms.
00:08:44.120
And because I do some light editing, I can just do a little bleep or something.
00:08:53.100
I think I'll be safe with saying the average Zoomer is so moronic
00:08:58.940
and so lacking in even the basics of what I would call basic cultural and historical knowledge
00:09:09.820
that any context of what they are doing socially and culturally is always already lost.
00:09:18.420
And there's lots of interesting ways in which this manifests itself
00:09:22.520
with a phenomenon like Fuentes, which I'll get back to in a second.
00:09:26.220
But, I mean, just to go off on a brief tangent in a minute,
00:09:29.480
I don't want to monologue too much, but I remember a few years ago,
00:09:34.620
you know, back when I was teaching in universities and so on,
00:09:38.820
I had to design all of my courses in such a way that would essentially fill in all of the history
00:09:44.800
that the students should have learned at school because they just don't have it, right?
00:09:50.640
So anyone of our generation, Richard, has a kind of a basic idea, right?
00:09:58.460
Then you have like the English Civil War, the Restoration,
00:10:02.520
you know, then something like the Enlightenment happened.
00:10:04.860
And then you've got the industrial, like we've got kind of vague map of the shape of history
00:10:10.600
in our minds, at least like which epoch goes where, you know, there's antiquity followed by the medieval era
00:10:20.440
But because of the way that a lot of history is taught in schools,
00:10:25.160
which is very kind of modular, it's very modular,
00:10:29.660
I found that students just didn't even have a basic kind of sense of that, you know,
00:10:37.800
that, oh, you know, at this point you have the War of the Roses
00:10:47.560
Because essentially, I mean, certainly in British schools, they study periods in isolation.
00:10:54.780
It's like you'll study the Nazis on their own, and then you'll do another module
00:11:00.960
and you'll study like, I don't know, Henry VIII on his own.
00:11:06.260
So there's a very little sense of history being joined up in that way.
00:11:10.580
There might be some virtue to doing that, to be overly fair here.
00:11:16.760
But I think what you're talking about is that the lack of a master narrative,
00:11:23.040
even if it's one that you want to go and deconstruct, you know,
00:11:26.680
it's like, what's the origin of the Enlightenment?
00:11:29.460
Is it, you know, 18th century French philosophers?
00:11:32.480
No, actually, you can go into the Middle Ages and find it, you know.
00:11:37.040
But that's the kind, you have to do that after.
00:11:39.500
And this is an argument I actually used to have with colleagues and things,
00:11:44.060
which is that essentially you cannot be postmodern, right?
00:11:50.200
You cannot appreciate what the postmodern is if you can't even walk.
00:11:58.160
You can't run before you've learned to even crawl.
00:12:03.300
And this is another, I mean, part of it goes back to the way courses are constructed and things.
00:12:08.740
I mean, I had radical feminist colleagues who were trying to, like, deconstruct the, I don't know,
00:12:15.900
they were trying to teach, like, the medieval literature was written by lesbian women
00:12:19.940
before these kids had even done, like, Chaucer or something.
00:12:22.820
It's like, well, this is going to mean nothing.
00:12:24.580
Like, if you haven't done Shakespeare and Marlowe and so on,
00:12:30.780
They just don't have a, in order to see something as transgressive or as challenging,
00:12:35.700
you have to have a sense of what the status quo is.
00:12:39.100
And my general comment is that I think the Zoomers are so lacking in any of those things
00:12:46.780
that things that are just kind of bog-standard reactions that we might have,
00:12:53.260
social transgressions, taboos, they just don't have it.
00:12:57.940
They just don't have any, like, there's no filth.
00:13:00.040
So when we see somebody like Nick Fuentes being outrageous and saying, like, crazy things
00:13:06.000
and so on, it doesn't, like, it's like the Zoomers are so stupid,
00:13:11.340
they don't even know what they're doing in a way, which can be a good thing and a bad thing.
00:13:15.980
Like, they're immune to what I call, like, boomer truth regime, kind of,
00:13:20.780
they don't have any of the haloed stuff around World War II and, you know,
00:13:27.460
But on the other hand, it's like, well, you might as well be dealing with a chimpanzee or something.
00:13:35.260
It's just like, it's like you're dealing with a caged animal who has no sense of anything.
00:13:41.200
You can just poke them around and they'll jump about and you can laugh at them.
00:13:46.940
I mean, to give you an example, Richard, I have a set of tweets I do sometimes where, you know,
00:13:56.420
sometimes on Twitter, you're just kind of talking and you'll throw out a reference to something.
00:14:00.960
You know, I might casually mention Al Pacino or something.
00:14:04.200
And then what I've started doing is I follow that up with a tweet that says,
00:14:12.560
And what I'll do is I'll mix in, obviously, false information with kind of well-known things.
00:14:24.700
Because obviously to me or to you, these would be like kind of funny little tweets that,
00:14:31.360
You're like Al Pacino, former prime minister of Italy.
00:14:37.800
I made a, there was a, there was a story with the Rolling Stones the other day.
00:14:42.840
Because Mick Jagger's now going out with like an 18 year old or something ridiculous like that.
00:14:48.920
And I just quote tweeted and said, you know, maybe gives his satisfaction.
00:14:52.420
And then I said, well, for Zoomers, tweet is a pun.
00:14:55.800
Mick Jagger is in a band called the Rolling Stones.
00:15:02.940
Sex is something done between two consulting adults that you've only seen in porn.
00:15:10.460
What's incredible about these tweets is that Zoomers then, without any sense of irony or
00:15:18.040
self-awareness or anything, reply saying, oh, I think I knew that.
00:15:26.800
It's just like, I mean, it's just like, it's kind of mind blowing.
00:15:30.300
I just don't like, and I'm not talking about, you know, you can say, well, all right,
00:15:38.080
So I don't know who, I don't know, the second member of Wham is or something.
00:15:43.980
But I'm talking about like Marilyn Monroe, Elvis, Marlon Brando, you know, just like basic,
00:15:51.460
basic stuff that everybody knows that they just don't.
00:15:54.780
And to me, that makes them simultaneously like fascinating, sad, and also terrifying because
00:16:04.540
they just, they just don't react to anything in the way that you might expect because they're
00:16:12.720
And it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like a systematic failure.
00:16:15.460
You've got a generation of people who just essentially aren't finished.
00:16:19.800
And I, and I think that Nick Fuentes is, I think the reason that he's, he's popular only
00:16:26.880
I don't think he has any crossover to anybody who comes from the before times.
00:16:31.880
He's like a pure creature of Zoomer internet who speaks really only to Zoomers.
00:16:39.220
And I mean, this is my base, this is my basic take in a nutshell.
00:16:43.260
I've talked a lot, so I'll, I'll hand over to someone else.
00:16:46.120
Well, yeah, look, look, I fully agree with you.
00:16:49.020
I mean, I, I remember when I was reading, I think I was reading Harper's Monthly.
00:16:55.800
And they, they published an article, they, they would often have these, um, uh, kind of
00:17:02.600
funny and ironic, uh, uh, snippets from things in the beginning of the magazine.
00:17:08.560
And they published an article where a high school teacher combined, um, like misapprehensions
00:17:19.440
And so it really was like Jesus, an American was born in 1900, you know, like it just, it
00:17:28.480
was so wild that it just became absolutely hilarious.
00:17:31.860
It was like when Jesus killed Hitler or, you know, and then, and then Thomas, then he made
00:17:38.680
It was just hilarious and absurd, but I mean, this was taken from these things.
00:17:43.540
I remember visiting Paul Godfrey, um, in, uh, he was a, uh, this is, uh, at least I think
00:17:52.020
And he was, he was a professor at Elizabethtown.
00:17:54.420
I imagine he's retired at this point from that position, but he's, he's at a Lutheran
00:18:00.140
college and they don't know who Martin Luther is.
00:18:07.360
So, I mean, it's, it's one thing, you know, when we imagine like, oh, there's some kid in
00:18:12.720
the hood who, who, whose dad is elsewhere and whose stepdad is beating him and his mom's
00:18:19.360
on drugs and he witnessed a murder, you know, it's like, it's almost like entirely forgivable
00:18:24.760
that, you know, this Tyrone character doesn't know much about history, it being that his
00:18:31.640
These are middle-class kids from the burbs attending a college, Lutheran college.
00:18:45.720
And so, yeah, I mean, I, I think we have definitely like evaporated all narratives and they are
00:18:51.320
a test case of pure post-modernism in the sense that they're, even if people like you or I want
00:18:57.800
to deconstruct the narrative, they're not even there.
00:19:02.200
There, there, there's no way of making sense of the world and, and your place in it.
00:19:08.820
And I think this is also confounded by something which I've, I've talked about before on these
00:19:16.660
episodes where I've, I think I've leveled it sludge or anti-culture or you, you can, you
00:19:27.140
Um, I am a fan of the free flowing format, like exactly like what we're doing today.
00:19:35.480
I, I love a good podcast where you have intelligent people and it's better in a way than an essay
00:19:41.200
because you can kind of pick up threads and go someplace you didn't expect to.
00:19:46.240
And there, there, there is content that is great content.
00:19:51.000
In fact, that is possible in this kind of situation.
00:19:54.700
It reminds me of the, the best kind of seminar that I ever took at say you Chicago, where
00:20:01.040
we would start with a text and then we would begin discussion.
00:20:06.360
And, and I, I do like that, but that's really at the best case.
00:20:11.480
I think there's this new genre of entertainment, I guess, which is quickly replacing the mainstream
00:20:20.300
media and films, et cetera, which is like hanging out with your friends as content in this parasocial
00:20:29.120
relationship where there's a streamer sitting in a gamer chair with fluorescent lights behind
00:20:36.640
And you can see just enough, enough of the cleavage and maybe she's wearing nerd glasses just to
00:20:47.760
And she's responding to questions, many of which are outlandish or meant to be taken unseriously.
00:20:56.000
And they're talking really about nothing for hours on end.
00:21:02.360
And they, you know, when I was Nick Fuentes's age, I mean, again, it is, I, I sound like an old
00:21:11.760
But when I was Nick Fuentes's age, I was reading books, like reading a magazine, uh, traveling around,
00:21:20.720
you know, on, on very little income, but just kind of having fun.
00:21:24.820
But basically I was, I was consuming or imbibing is probably a better way of things.
00:21:30.020
You know, I, I read, um, I actually was an English, uh, English and music major.
00:21:35.000
I studied a lot of English, uh, Elizabethan literature, et cetera.
00:21:39.700
I actually hadn't really read the ancients when I was in Germany and like 2002, uh, I read
00:21:48.640
I probably read him before, but I'd read him seriously for the first time.
00:21:51.420
I, I read Virgil, I just sat down and read it was just imbibing all of these stuff.
00:21:56.580
They're not imbibing their, their, their vomiting.
00:22:00.920
And so the, it's just, yeah, I mean, what could they possibly have to say?
00:22:07.660
Like it's just this, and there's no excuse not to vomit.
00:22:11.080
Like you, you can, you can do a live stream when you're sick in bed.
00:22:16.820
I mean, you can just endlessly generate the sludge.
00:22:19.700
I mean, to give Nick, Nick some credit, I do find, I I've never watched an entire stream
00:22:26.880
of my life of his, and I doubt I ever will, but to give him some credit, I do find some
00:22:32.540
of his like riffs for lack of a better word, pretty hilarious.
00:22:37.240
Like this to have sex with a woman is gay or what I'm, I'm just like, all right, this
00:22:49.460
He was like, people say the Bible is crazy, but like, all right, let me do an imitation.
00:22:54.880
People, they, they say the Bible's crazy, but then they want us to believe that large reptilian
00:23:00.520
monsters roamed the earth called the dinosaurs.
00:23:03.580
Now, now tell me who's more, who's more outlandish, who's more ridiculous science or the Bible
00:23:08.420
rest my case, you know, like he's denying dinosaurs.
00:23:12.740
And I'm just like, I cannot believe it's funny to give him credit, but I cannot believe I am
00:23:23.620
And so I, I think that's where they are and their lives really are on, you know, in the
00:23:30.420
So I, I remember there's a line from a pretty good film from, you know, a decade ago, like
00:23:36.840
And it was, um, it was said by that, uh, that like musician come actor, I forgetting his name
00:23:45.500
Um, and he was like, you know, uh, at, at one, uh, what did he say?
00:23:53.740
We're, we're entering cyberspace so that we will now, you know, we will now be living in
00:24:01.120
Like we're, we're fully plugged in where, what happens in the real world no longer matters.
00:24:06.160
It wasn't Andrew Garfield, but don't, don't, it doesn't, it's neither here nor there.
00:24:17.400
And I think there was something kind of heady and ambitious about that idea of, you know,
00:24:27.160
He's a, he's a like singer pop star or whatever.
00:24:31.980
Um, but I think it actually happened and, but it didn't quite happen in the way that
00:24:38.640
we thought, like, I think we, we imagined like kids in the nineties or something plugging
00:24:43.540
into the internet, you know, it's like the matrix or, you know, you plug in and you're,
00:24:49.700
you're in, you're, you're in like a Tron like universe and everything's cool and kind of
00:24:54.980
dangerous and, uh, deceptive, but you're, you're, you're expanding your boundaries.
00:25:00.580
And so I think these, this was kind of the fantasy, but the reality of being plugged into
00:25:05.260
the internet is it's almost more mundane than real life.
00:25:09.880
Like it's sitting in a gamer chair talking about like maybe dating, I don't know, or video
00:25:19.780
It's, it's more, it's weirdly more mundane than the real world in this shocking way, but,
00:25:31.940
Their sex lives are digital, which is really remarkable.
00:25:39.080
Like they're, they're a better, they probably know more about that weird streamer girl that
00:25:48.080
Then they know about members of their own family or certainly friends.
00:25:52.240
I mean, you know, I've, I've, I've certainly had the experience a number of times where
00:25:56.680
somebody casually mentioned they've got a girlfriend or they're seeing someone or whatever.
00:26:02.040
And then I, and then I find out actually they're living across the other side of the world and
00:26:06.260
they've only ever talked to each other on discord.
00:26:07.860
And I'm like, that's not really, you don't really have a girlfriend.
00:26:14.620
But have you, have you, what is your, have you mutually masturbated with one another over
00:26:19.240
Like even that, and it, I'm, I'm not trying to be vulgar or outlandish here.
00:26:24.320
It's like, that would almost be the ultimate culmination of it where you have this digital
00:26:29.880
connection, but then you're ultimately solipsistically stuck inside yourself.
00:26:34.920
Maybe literally in this case, um, you know, you're, you're just, you're jerking off together.
00:26:42.440
And so you're not actually creating a connection and needless to say, um, you're not going to
00:26:50.500
reproduce yourself that way, but that's almost like the ultimate, like expression of this
00:27:00.340
And it kind of, I do think that it manifests itself in all sorts of interesting ways.
00:27:05.260
Like, I mean, you know, on the subject of Nick Fuentes, you know, I think one of the famous
00:27:10.840
But I, I mean, I don't know, I don't know if you've noticed Richard, but in recent years,
00:27:15.540
just the sheer number of, um, anime avatar, right-wing transsexuals is enormous.
00:27:25.620
It's just, I mean, it's like the, I would say it's more than, it's more than one in 10 of
00:27:33.740
posts that I see now are from accounts of that, you know, of that sort of nature.
00:27:40.840
It's kind of ambiguous as to, well, is this a girl or a boy is clearly a man because of
00:27:48.660
their typing style, but they present themselves as a woman and, you know, they've got their
00:27:54.260
strange terms like booning and so on and so forth.
00:28:03.240
How much, like, how much of that is just a projection?
00:28:08.040
I, I, I remember I had a tweet of a while back that really angered a lot of people.
00:28:13.360
And in my experience, when you anger a lot of people, I'm sure you're going to agree
00:28:17.460
You're probably over the target somewhere, right?
00:28:19.560
If you probably, if you get real pushback, you probably hit on a nerve.
00:28:24.060
Um, I remember saying that making your own character in an RPG game is like one step on
00:28:38.040
It is the, the presenting yourself as a transsexual on Twitter is really, because you're not, well,
00:28:50.360
I guess what I'm trying to say is these people aren't really dressing up and going out and
00:29:01.100
They're projecting an image of themselves onto the world, just like we used to make our
00:29:05.280
Facebook profiles, but it's now in the, it's now much more in the realm of like fantasy
00:29:13.580
And it's like, I mean, it's kind of, it's kind of interesting, but also like deeply tragic
00:29:21.700
Um, but I, I think this can also, it, it, it's weird when it spills over into the real world.
00:29:28.860
And I, I do think that the, the alt right as a movement was that spilling over into the
00:29:37.340
real world and people would bring memes into real life.
00:29:41.840
Um, there, there was actually someone I remember who, who's a genuinely tragic case.
00:29:47.100
Uh, he, he was someone who was a, um, successful engineer, uh, uh, of, of some regard who was
00:29:55.980
And when you saw him, he was just dressed up in the memes.
00:29:59.840
I mean, keep in mind when I got punched on camera, I was wearing a little Pepe pin and
00:30:08.240
I'm, I'm hip with the, uh, with the kids, you know, kind of thing.
00:30:12.260
And then obviously, you know, there's a dose of reality given to, uh, yours truly.
00:30:17.340
Um, but, but this, this person who was at Charlottesville, he was dressed up and all the
00:30:22.020
He was, he was like a character, like a mascot.
00:30:25.140
And, um, he was, he, it became real for him and became too real.
00:30:30.940
And he was doxxed and he eventually, um, uh, uh, committed suicide because it was just
00:30:39.780
I think, but the alt-right was a kind of spilling over of things.
00:30:43.620
I mean, Nick Fuentes is a connecting thread in all this.
00:30:49.620
I mean, I think it was a lot of things and I do think there was a, you know, there was
00:30:55.640
There was some machinations going on with the electors and Trump wanted to stay in office.
00:31:00.800
Obviously, uh, but fundamentally it was a, it kind of like spilling over of the internet
00:31:08.240
into real life where all of those people had been connected through the internet and had
00:31:16.840
created a kind of quasi religious system that, that bore striking resemblances to Christianity
00:31:24.240
kind of had the structure of Christianity, but, but wasn't Christianity, obviously, but
00:31:29.200
it, and it kind of spilled over to this point where they, when it was in real life, they
00:31:37.520
I mean, one of the defenses of J6 is that they were just walking around the Capitol like deer
00:31:44.080
in headlights, which they were, but, but it's a weird defense.
00:31:47.860
It's like, they know not what they do, but they do it anyway.
00:31:51.480
And I, I'm one of my, I'll let you talk in just one day.
00:31:55.180
One of my favorite moments was a woman who was like middle age, probably my age.
00:32:00.260
And she was, she, she went over to a camera and she was complaining and she was like, oh,
00:32:06.060
And, and, and they were like, oh, well, you know what, what happened?
00:32:11.080
You know, it's like, yeah, uh, tear gas is going to be the least of your worry worries
00:32:19.560
Uh, but I think that, that expressed that kind of like unconscious quality to them of,
00:32:26.780
of, of the, the digital world, like flowing into real life.
00:32:32.100
No, I mean, I was going to say that, uh, you know, they say like the first time is tragedy.
00:32:38.400
I do think there's a difference between Charlottesville and what was, what happened
00:32:47.240
And this thing that we've been, this thing that we've been talking about with the
00:32:50.640
Fuentes phenomenon and so on, which is that, you know, for, for, for better or for worse
00:32:57.460
back in 2016, 2017, when you put that Pepe frog on, there was a degree of self-awareness
00:33:07.000
You're a man who's grown up watching Seinfeld or whatever.
00:33:11.200
Like you understand, like you have a degree of sophistication where you actually understood
00:33:16.400
to some extent what was happening and the social, political, and cultural context of that.
00:33:23.500
And that when you're transgressing, you're at, you're actually know why.
00:33:29.900
And, you know, what, like, if something is edgy, you know what that line is and why you're
00:33:39.180
Now, now the, the, the, the Nick crowd, I do not believe has that level of awareness.
00:33:49.580
I just don't think they know what they're doing.
00:33:51.880
It's like, you think they're not ironic and some weird, but I just don't, I just don't
00:33:57.440
think they have any concept of what, of any of those things.
00:34:03.540
They just lack the necessary knowledge basically to understand what they're actually doing.
00:34:10.840
Now, now the actual effect when, when Louis Theroux puts Nick Fuentes on a BBC documentary and
00:34:18.420
middle-class women in bloody, you know, Kent, um, listen, listen to him saying that women
00:34:25.640
shouldn't have the vote and all this sort of stuff.
00:34:30.960
But I just don't, I just don't know if Fuentes understands why that reaction would happen.
00:34:41.420
I mean, maybe he does, maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but I just don't get the, I
00:34:45.700
just don't get the impression that there's the ability to distinguish between a kind of
00:34:56.960
And it's real taboos and it's, and you know, actual, actual moral values that people have.
00:35:04.960
Um, you know, I, I've talked a lot, my next book is going to be called the boomer truth
00:35:10.220
And, and, you know, I'm going to talk about like, well, this is a kind of mental prison
00:35:13.860
in a way for boomers and gen Xers and, and, and millennials who, who have all lived their
00:35:19.300
lives in this kind of ideological kind of post-World War II bubble that in, in some ways
00:35:25.700
is kind of liberal and free, but in other ways, extremely brittle.
00:35:30.040
I mean, there are whole topic areas that we, that we can't even talk about without getting
00:35:35.420
Well, I think, I think that you're onto something because the, okay.
00:35:39.700
So if we, if we briefly describe the, the, the generations, you, obviously the boomers
00:35:45.800
had this very unique perspective of being born after the second world war and, and experiencing
00:35:53.480
its benefits and kind of developing the, the taboo, which might've existed previously
00:35:59.580
to some extent, but, but really develop, you know, Hitler is the worst thing ever.
00:36:04.020
The Holocaust is the most kind of profound event that we could think about liberalism's
00:36:13.160
Gen Xers, we kind of reacted against that as their, as their children, where it's, it's
00:36:20.380
the kind of Christopher Hitchens, you know, well, okay, but you, you know, Israel just uses
00:36:26.380
the Holocaust so they can oppress Palestinians, like, like, we had a little sense of, and
00:36:30.640
I'm a young Gen Xer, but I am a Gen Xer, but we, we kind of had a sense of, of irony.
00:36:37.100
The millennials almost like reinstated the boomer truth regime in a kind of funny way.
00:36:50.380
You know how she was like cynical and she'd be like always kind of psychoanalyzing her parents
00:36:55.700
and, you know, she'd never be impressed with it.
00:36:58.040
I mean, that's very stereotypical kind of Gen X.
00:37:05.540
But then like millennials almost reinstated it in this kind of cutesy way.
00:37:10.860
And then, but then I think Gen Z, they're, they're almost like, they really are.
00:37:17.200
Because if you look at the, the, the like political profile of millennials and zoomers,
00:37:22.520
it's actually very similar in terms of like, do you support gay marriage?
00:37:31.040
Do you support taxes or whatever it's, they're actually very similar and they're, they're very
00:37:34.960
left-wing, but I think there might be a profound difference that polling misses where it's like
00:37:40.660
someone like pearly things or Nick Fuentes, where they're just like, yeah, women shouldn't
00:37:47.340
They, they're, they're just saying this directly unadulterated on social media.
00:37:58.960
No, I mean, millennials were extremely, I taught a lot of millennials and they were extremely
00:38:03.240
earnest and, you know, it's difficult for, I mean, I was, uh, I'm kind of on the cusp,
00:38:08.900
you know, I'm either a late gen X or an early, early, uh, millennial, millennial, you call
00:38:16.580
Kind of unique and early, I was born in the early eighties.
00:38:19.900
Um, but the, the, the kind of certainly the later millennials, they don't deal with ambiguity
00:38:26.040
You know, I remember teaching Shakespeare and they wanted to know like who were the good guys
00:38:30.640
I'm like, you can't approach Shakespeare like it's Harry Potter, you know, but they almost
00:38:35.120
wanted to make everything Harry Potter, like genuinely a battle of good against evil, which
00:38:46.920
Um, the, the, the, the, the, the gen, the, the gen Z, the, the, the zoomers, as we we've
00:38:53.200
been talking about, I think what it is, is that they, I genuinely don't think they have
00:38:58.160
any sense of what you might call the sacred, right?
00:39:02.880
Now, like you and I, we might start to, uh, question some of the, like you, like you mentioned,
00:39:11.440
like the uses of the Holocaust, um, in kind of post-World War II myths, something like
00:39:17.980
And you can, you can, we can look at it with a kind of jaundiced eye, but we also will have
00:39:24.360
an acute sense, especially if you're just talking to a, you know, Joe Normie, member
00:39:28.260
of the public, that this is an absolute kind of sacred symbol at the center of the system.
00:39:33.660
Um, and that you have to tread really carefully around that because, you know, people can,
00:39:39.440
if you tread on their sacred symbol, they can go absolutely apeshit.
00:39:43.760
And, you know, when it comes to that particular issue, you know, it's, uh, you know, you're,
00:39:50.640
you're dealing with some pretty, pretty untouchable areas.
00:39:55.500
Um, but I don't feel like the typical zoomer and certainly not Nick.
00:40:02.900
I don't think he gets that when he's making his cookie jokes or whatever, that this is
00:40:06.900
going to be like, I mean, it has the effect, like he probably sees the horrified reactions
00:40:13.560
and so on and thinks they're funny or whatever, but I don't think he, he quite understands the,
00:40:21.800
Or like, I don't know, women's votes or something like that.
00:40:24.920
Like, so, I mean, in a, you see, it's a weird thing because in a strange way, it's liberating.
00:40:31.100
But they're almost trying to achieve what I want to achieve with my, with my boomer
00:40:35.000
truth, uh, stuff just in the most retarded way possible.
00:40:39.100
They're just doing it by being retarded, not by, not by any kind of, uh, kind of knowing
00:40:47.460
And I find myself kind of torn because in a strange way, I also like want to, how can I
00:40:53.780
Like, as I tear, I want to tear down the world the boomer's built.
00:40:57.840
I want to, I also want to kind of retain some part of it or appreciate some part of it
00:41:05.840
But they just don't have any semblance of any of it.
00:41:08.180
They were, I mean, another attitude I come across a lot from the zoomers is that, oh,
00:41:13.820
we live in such a, like a morally bankrupt world.
00:41:16.360
Um, basically all, all art produced after the war is degenerate.
00:41:22.420
You know, you'll talk about a movie or something.
00:41:30.940
Like, oh yeah, I don't, I'm glad I don't have to read that book.
00:41:34.420
So you, you essentially get zoomers justifying their own ignorance of everything.
00:41:41.180
It's like they're proud of not knowing anything, which is a very, uh, so that's one thing.
00:41:49.600
And their sacred objects come from the internet.
00:41:52.620
So this is, this is the other thing that Richard, this lack of a sense of what is sacred.
00:41:59.440
Also means you get ridiculous road to Damascus conversions every six weeks.
00:42:06.020
You know, I'm a, I'm a pagan Nietzschean six weeks later.
00:42:14.980
Now, now I'm a, now I've joined the, um, Orthodox church.
00:42:20.040
It's just like, do you understand the magnitude of these declarations you're making?
00:42:25.080
You know, I remember that like Thomas Carlyle says, the most important thing about a man
00:42:31.300
But these people wear them like clothes and they declare them to the world and they, they
00:42:36.520
change the, you know, they, they, they change their avatars and they get into all of the
00:42:44.680
And then six weeks later, they're onto something else.
00:42:55.080
Of Nick, that he's only appealing to his humor audience.
00:42:58.560
I'm not even sure that he would receive that as a criticism.
00:43:01.160
I think he would be like, well, you know, they're the, they're the new generation.
00:43:08.340
And he's not totally incorrect in that assessment.
00:43:10.820
I mean, you know, ideally you want to be speaking to the youth or the next generation.
00:43:14.940
You want to be influencing the next generation.
00:43:16.860
So I think he's correct in that regard, uh, to a degree.
00:43:20.460
Um, I don't think that, I think he has successfully alienated other groups though, which is probably
00:43:28.540
And, but maybe it's something that, you know, as he matures, uh, he'll be able to make adjustments.
00:43:36.620
And I, I, I, um, uh, when it comes to Nick, I'm pretty ambivalent in terms of, uh, you know,
00:43:43.620
um, how his movement in particular turns out, I mean, I, it could have some positive side
00:43:49.400
I'll admit, um, because some taboos I think need to be shaken.
00:43:54.400
And I think that, um, and in, maybe it allows people like us to come in and be like, okay,
00:44:01.360
well, you know, here's a more reasonable approach to things, right.
00:44:06.120
Where, um, you know, we're not, we, we're not necessarily going to be, um, insulting these
00:44:12.220
sacred cows, but we may be saying, well, listen, um, they are sacred cows that should be looked
00:44:21.100
Um, so I don't, I think that, you know, I mean, that's one, there's a possible positive kind
00:44:27.400
of side effect, I think, to a movement like Nick's, um, uh, potentially, but I, in what
00:44:33.980
we're describing though, in terms of the generation gap, um, you know, I think that I, it is a kind
00:44:40.980
of cliche that, you know, the, uh, generations will be at odds with one another and they'll
00:44:49.540
Uh, now, of course, I mean, ultimately this is ultimately, ideally there's a kind of continuation
00:44:56.880
Um, even, uh, uh, you know, veneration of elders and wisdom and this sort of thing in,
00:45:02.000
maybe you find that in more traditional societies, but I think that that it's not even, you know,
00:45:07.060
I don't think it requires us, you know, deciding that we have to go back to medieval Europe
00:45:11.700
to, um, you know, adopt more of that kind of psychology, uh, in the modern world.
00:45:18.200
I think that that there is, there is a healthy aspect to that.
00:45:21.360
I think, and I think it's ultimately a balance.
00:45:23.780
I mean, evidently our ancestors failed in some things.
00:45:26.860
So the past does require a kind of critical analysis to see where things went wrong.
00:45:31.400
Um, but at the same time, I think that there is, you know, you, people who are, who have
00:45:37.340
lived in the world longer than you, um, no more and, or wiser.
00:45:41.860
I mean, I, you know, in, in, in, they might have ultimately come to wrong or incorrect conclusions.
00:45:48.380
Um, but I, I think that one of the problems, uh, because I, you know, the way, the way that
00:45:55.180
I see Nick's movement is I see him, I think he's having success, but he's basically having
00:46:01.880
Like, I don't think it, it ultimately goes anywhere good is, is my feeling.
00:46:06.520
I, and again, it might have, it might have beneficial effects to, uh, movements, um, uh,
00:46:14.600
But, um, I, I think that for his own movement, I think it has a kind of, I think it has a kind
00:46:24.300
And, you know, in, I, in, I'm in a way I'm kind of giving free advice here, but I know it's
00:46:29.380
also advice that they won't take, um, uh, which is, you know, because they'll see me
00:46:36.380
And I think that there is a kind of, um, you know, you, when you do get advice from, especially
00:46:41.860
someone who might be a rival or you might, you know, might perceive could be a rival,
00:46:46.700
uh, they could even sort of unconsciously give you bad advice.
00:46:49.800
So I understand the instinct for them not to want to listen to me.
00:46:53.180
Um, but when I see, you know, some of these young zoomer guys who are kind of e-celebs
00:46:58.940
or, you know, leaders in this, in our movement or sort of adjacent movements, it's probably
00:47:06.400
Um, there is a lack of wisdom there ultimately.
00:47:12.240
Well, I think Richard has to step away for a second.
00:47:18.900
He's, he's just going to be gone for 10 minutes, but, um, you know, I'll let you speak in a
00:47:23.020
second here because I see you jumping on a, but, um, I, in one thing is one thing I've
00:47:28.300
noticed is that, you know, they'll, I mean, it'll be like some 24 year old guy and they
00:47:35.240
They haven't read the philosophers, but they are themselves a philosopher or, or consider
00:47:40.600
And they don't actually, you know, they haven't read them.
00:47:46.440
And you see them and you see yourself at that age and you understand why they're thinking
00:47:52.760
in the way that they are, but they're, they're, they just haven't like gone further long enough
00:47:58.440
down the road to kind of reach better conclusions.
00:48:01.740
And maybe not, maybe they're not objectively better conclusions, but you see where they
00:48:08.080
You've already kind of considered the things that they've considered and sort of gone through
00:48:11.840
this sort of logical considerations that they're going through now.
00:48:18.860
Um, but anyways, why don't, why don't you jump in?
00:48:21.760
I mean, I mean, just on that last point, Mark, it's like, yeah, I made all my mistakes and
00:48:30.180
I did all my reading and I would, you know, did the whole Richard laid out earlier on where
00:48:34.940
you, you go back and you kind of teach yourself the classics type thing.
00:48:40.480
I mean, a lot of learning is learning that you do to yourself.
00:48:47.380
It's just your, you know, the reading that you do in your own time, but also, you know,
00:48:51.700
as a young, as a young 20 something, I was absolutely insufferable.
00:48:55.640
Um, I mean, even more than I am now, I mean, like you think I'm a wanker now, you should
00:49:01.060
have seen me when I was like, you know, how arrogant I was when I was 20 or 21 or something.
00:49:05.860
Um, but the difference was I wasn't doing that in front of an audience of thousands and the
00:49:12.080
effect of an audience means that you're much less likely to back down.
00:49:17.540
And I mean, I, I, you know, some of my, some of the, uh, books I've written in the past
00:49:22.680
have been about, um, you know, like thinking fast and slow and Jonathan Haidt and the way
00:49:28.400
that, uh, you know, uh, most of our thinking is intuitive as opposed to reasoned out.
00:49:36.220
One of the, one of the persistent phenomena is confirmation bias.
00:49:40.920
Once you have a view and you're seen as being entrenched in that view, it's very difficult
00:49:49.500
Well, of course it's much easier to do that if you've never really told anyone about it,
00:49:55.080
if it's just your own notes or if you, you just kind of privately think, oh, well, maybe
00:50:00.060
I'm not that much into car marks or something as, as, as I was a few months, you know, a few
00:50:06.940
But if you're doing it in front of an audience of like 20, 30, 100,000 people, it's a lot
00:50:13.080
more difficult to, uh, it's a lot more difficult to kind of change your mind.
00:50:19.880
And also their, their bad ideas go viral, right?
00:50:23.080
So they'll have a bad idea that will go viral and they'll see it as related to their success
00:50:29.000
So the, the instinct or desire will be to double down on these sort of bad ideas because they
00:50:35.320
see it as kind of, um, uh, primary or part of their success, right?
00:50:41.400
So the, the early success becomes a kind of curse, uh, potentially right now, theoretically,
00:50:47.280
I think that some learning can also occur then as well.
00:50:51.320
But I think that often, uh, you know, a guy like Nick, um, you know, he probably, he would
00:50:57.800
listen to a podcast like this and be like, you know, who the fuck are these guys?
00:51:02.040
I'm the leader of, you know, DR or whatever, right?
00:51:06.880
And that, and that would be sort of the conclusion he he'll reach.
00:51:10.540
Um, so I see where, so maybe you understand what I'm saying is that that ends up being
00:51:15.140
a kind of curse for the guy, you know, he doesn't, he no longer thinks that he can learn anything
00:51:19.860
and that he kind of knew everything out of the gate.
00:51:23.220
Um, and I, I see, oh, please super serious second, uh, the Mark, the thing I really worry
00:51:30.020
about, I don't want to come across like an old woman or something here, but I mean, okay.
00:51:34.760
So he's a, you know, there are these, uh, fairly naive kids who are making their mistakes
00:51:40.140
in public and they're not quite, they're not quite sure what they're doing and they have
00:51:43.960
a certain degree of success that they can get drunk on.
00:51:46.400
Um, now the, you know, the government, the regime, as we call them, you know, um, the
00:51:53.340
U S government, the British government who, who basically have an agenda.
00:51:57.440
I mean, I've read their intelligence documents.
00:52:00.580
Um, I've read, you know, what they're pushing at the moment, which is basically the idea of,
00:52:09.180
Uh, you know, they, in some sense, they want to create kind of moral panic around these
00:52:17.160
And one of the things I, I worry about basically is that, um, and I'm not, I'm not suggesting
00:52:24.040
here that Fuentes himself is a malicious actor, by the way, I'm just saying that the, the things
00:52:30.680
that we've been describing have a real use for the government because they can, I mean,
00:52:37.020
let's say in a sea, in a sea of, uh, people making kind of on online content.
00:52:48.220
Well, they can reach into that sea of people and just elevate the one that fits their narrative.
00:52:54.980
The one that's the most edgy, the one that's the most extreme.
00:52:58.700
And that's the one that they're going to feature on their documentary.
00:53:01.660
That's the one that they're going to put on their website and in their intelligence documents
00:53:06.120
That's the one that's going to make it into the, um, into the soap opera, you know, that's
00:53:11.280
worrying about, uh, there was this ridiculous storyline in a soap here about, um, black pill
00:53:18.760
That's how they, that's how they talked about it in, in, in the show.
00:53:21.840
And I, I just wonder, I just worry about the structural role that somebody like Fuentes
00:53:28.800
plays for the system, because the ultimately, if you understand the way the government always
00:53:36.720
operates, it basically elevates somebody like that to bring in some sort of ruling that they
00:53:44.260
want in this country, it's called the online harms bill in America.
00:53:47.860
They'll, they'll find a different way to do it, to get around the, uh, the constitution
00:53:51.940
or, or whatever in Europe, it will be, you know, something even more draconian and they
00:53:57.940
will use people like Fuentes to justify those sorts of crackdowns.
00:54:02.920
Um, I mean, in a way, if it, if it wasn't him, it'll be someone else.
00:54:08.860
It, I just find it a little bit frustrating that, you know, considering all the stuff we saw
00:54:14.540
for some of the events of 2017 and, uh, even, even, uh, 2021 that no, it seems like nobody's
00:54:22.260
just learned anything at all, but you still get this, you're basically gifting them the
00:54:29.360
And, um, you know, I just wish it could be otherwise, but yeah.
00:54:34.200
I mean, you know, to your point, whether or not the government is looking at a guy like
00:54:38.400
Nick and saying, okay, well let's allow this movement, you know, to grow or, or let's kind
00:54:43.880
of, you know, even support it in this way or that, I, you know, we don't know if that's
00:54:48.300
happening and I, I tend, I actually don't have any reason to believe that that's happening.
00:54:53.460
Um, you know, it's something that Richard and I have talked about, um, is that I think
00:54:59.000
that, you know, Nick, um, but we would say this also, Richard and I would say this about,
00:55:06.220
Which is a kind of more radical thesis, I suppose, but that it ultimately represents a false
00:55:12.240
I think this is Adam Green has kind of come around to this position as well.
00:55:15.620
It seems, um, maybe simultaneously or at the same time that we have.
00:55:19.780
Um, but, um, so I, I think that he's, he's unwittingly in that role, but I don't think
00:55:29.340
Uh, but ultimately it doesn't matter whether he's unwitting or he's conscious, uh, only that
00:55:35.300
he's, you know, serving a kind of negative or bad end that ends up ultimately being a
00:55:40.620
kind of synthetic opposition might be a better way of describing it.
00:55:47.040
Um, I mean, and I, and I think though, and I, and this is, you know, sort of the piece
00:55:53.520
of advice that I, again, I, again, I can be confident in giving and know that they won't
00:56:00.160
Um, but the, the Christianity thing too, I mean, he's, you know, I mean, when you think
00:56:07.660
about the way that, um, Nick uses Catholicism right now, he's kind of manifestation of Catholicism
00:56:20.000
It has nothing to do with Christianity on a scriptural level, but let's say you're a Catholic
00:56:27.120
Uh, ostensibly you're following the Pope or you're following the church more generally.
00:56:34.000
You know, his whole movement would be, uh, viewed as completely repugnant by mainstream
00:56:43.640
Um, so, but he, it does have, it does by him using Christianity as a kind of instrument
00:56:50.200
in his movement, it does give it a kind of mystical power, um, that I think has at least a
00:56:57.360
One of the benefits too, is I think it's allowed in, I don't, you can call this a benefit or
00:57:02.860
And I think it is ultimately a flaw, but one of the things that it does too, is it allows
00:57:07.460
his movement to become more multicultural and it allows him to talk, you know, uh, he allows
00:57:15.960
For example, I guess one of the guys is a Muslim.
00:57:17.860
Um, but if it's about God, you know, if it's, if it becomes a movement about God, basically
00:57:24.040
against the Jews is which, which is how it's kind of manifest manifesting, it seems.
00:57:29.180
Um, then it also become, it may also become a multicultural movement.
00:57:34.060
And in that's, I think that's happened in that kind of direction.
00:57:38.380
Uh, with, uh, Nick, uh, you know, so it, and now I think Nick will say, well, you know,
00:57:44.120
I, I'm, I'm personally against race mixing and he might ultimately have a kind of, you
00:57:54.880
Uh, he, I know that he's called himself a majoritarian in the past.
00:58:00.880
I mean, it's that you, you know, you're either, you're either a separatist and you want an
00:58:05.360
ethno state or you're not, uh, or you're a multiculturalist ultimately on some level, uh, at least as it
00:58:14.460
Um, uh, but in, in less, you know, but that's not necessarily connected.
00:58:21.920
You could have a different sense of peoplehood where you have a sense of separation as, you
00:58:28.000
know, certain elements of, uh, Judaism have that separation or that sense of peoplehood.
00:58:34.380
Um, but you know, that position ultimately a majoritarian position is not, you know, it's
00:58:42.060
I mean, it's, you know, uh, demographics change one way or the other, right?
00:58:46.500
So demographics will either become less white or they'll become more white.
00:58:51.080
Uh, so to say you're a majoritarian is, is, you know, maybe it's a kind of, from his perspective,
00:58:56.120
it's kind of rhetorical device, but ultimately it doesn't, you know, because his movement
00:59:01.680
is Catholic or Christian, it's not a racialist movement.
00:59:06.040
Um, you know, I mean, and he does put that, he does, uh, indicate that that is his sort
00:59:10.420
of highest, you know, um, banner is Christianity.
00:59:15.080
Uh, and Christianity is not racialist in any way.
00:59:18.640
I mean, in fact, we're, we're kind of, it's, his movement is kind of manifesting, uh, in
00:59:25.700
a way that's kind of true to the creed of Christianity in the sense that it is, it is, uh, multiracial,
00:59:32.040
uh, and it has a kind of, at least, um, it has a kind of, uh, um, uh, exoteric, um, anti-Semitism.
00:59:47.400
Now, I think in, in, uh, Nick's case, it could be a genuine anti-Semitism, which would also
00:59:54.120
Christian, Christianity is not an anti-Semitic movement.
00:59:58.040
When you read the gospels, Jesus is trying to convert the Jews.
01:00:03.720
There are Jewish bad guys in the gospel, but the good guys are also Jews.
01:00:08.200
They're, they're the apostles through Jesus and everything.
01:00:11.580
Um, and it's understood as a kind of continuation of Judaism.
01:00:16.760
Um, but in any case, so his movement is not Christian by any like meaningful metric.
01:00:23.720
Um, uh, and yet on another level, it is in the sense that it's multiracial, right?
01:00:30.140
Uh, it's not in terms of it's, it's sort of, uh, it's ethos of behavior and conduct.
01:00:37.700
Uh, but in terms of, uh, developing in a multiracial direction, it is Christian.
01:00:43.100
Um, yeah, I, I, but so my advice actually to him, because I think that he is a talented,
01:00:53.600
I mean, evidently, uh, he's, he's a person that has of certain talents.
01:00:58.320
Um, my advice to, to him would be to tone down that Christian element.
01:01:03.840
Um, I think it's, it can only be a liability in the long run.
01:01:07.120
Now, I think that he's gained, I think he's gained some energy from it.
01:01:14.540
He, I think he has this sort of zeal at core that are Catholics, right?
01:01:18.540
So the idea that he would move away from Catholicism, uh, right now is probably just something that's
01:01:25.900
And he probably understands it as the core of his movement.
01:01:28.420
But if you took like this sort of, you know, if you understand, I mean, already you're
01:01:34.480
dealing with politics that, you know, they say that there, there are things that you're
01:01:37.440
not supposed to discuss in polite company, that cliche one is politics.
01:01:44.900
You're fighting a two front war when you, you, you're both a, uh, religious movement and
01:01:52.060
Um, and I think that one of those fronts is kind of unnecessary.
01:01:54.860
It's, it's, it's, but the position that he's in, because
01:02:01.920
And so obviously not Christian, at least on a kind of ethical level.
01:02:07.060
Um, and yet it is Christian in these other ways.
01:02:10.760
Um, you know, Paul also was an incel and you couldn't make an argument that it, Christianity
01:02:20.100
So it is, it is Christian in those ways, but it's so weird.
01:02:24.060
And there's in there kind of so much in their own little weird echo chamber, uh, that it's,
01:02:30.780
you know, I mean, people, uh, we can think of a famous example with, um, uh, Romney where
01:02:38.280
people were, you know, Christians were kind of looking askance at him because he was a Mormon.
01:02:43.260
Now take that and times it by like a thousand with this sort of weird, uh, you know, Catholicism
01:02:50.940
that, um, uh, Nick has generated and you see the problem, right?
01:02:56.520
It's, it makes him politically unviable, this weird brand of Catholicism.
01:03:11.520
I admit that I'm taking the, I'm taking the Nick position.
01:03:14.840
I, I think it should be if he doesn't want to accomplish what we want to accomplish.
01:03:19.860
And I would, even though I get academic agent and I, we, we, we have disagreements or something,
01:03:31.500
And, and I think he's, I think he's tapping into something.
01:03:34.740
I mean, as, as stupid and unsuccessful as the yay movement ultimately was, it did tap
01:03:43.180
in to the contradictions of the zoomers in so many ways, the black rap star being a Nazi
01:03:53.320
and ultimately being this pious Christian, even though he's, you know, last week he was
01:04:02.720
I mean, it, it, it kind of got at that contradiction, uh, that you, you kind of need actually to
01:04:11.240
be successful in this way that they want to be successful, uh, which is popular among
01:04:23.860
And so I would tell him to tone up the Catholicism.
01:04:28.340
And I, I think that, I mean, I might have my own hidden motivations for suggesting him
01:04:35.820
Um, but now he's going to wonder who's giving him the bad, bad, who's going to wonder.
01:04:42.340
Guys, I'm going to, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to jump off, but just before
01:04:45.920
I go, I saw, I saw an image of Fuentes doing the rounds of Fuentes standing in the middle
01:04:53.400
surrounded by like rather large black women flanked by either side of the, what was that
01:05:06.840
Cause that happened like this, just this, this past week.
01:05:08.920
Like, was it you Mark who, uh, who shared that image?
01:05:14.060
Um, he was, uh, Richard was describing it earlier and I don't really know much about
01:05:18.540
this show, but it's, it's of that category that Richard was describing earlier where it's,
01:05:22.580
um, these guys, they get a bunch of girls, uh, who are kind of dolled up and guys kind
01:05:28.780
of give them manosphere talking points and talk about how like their body count is going
01:05:33.540
to make sure that they, uh, end up only fans or whatever the case may be.
01:05:37.380
Like some, you know, it's, it's very kind of only fans is the ultimate, you know, you'll
01:05:47.600
Um, and, uh, so it's one of these shows of that love of that sort of low level.
01:05:54.180
I think we can fairly say, um, and, uh, it's fit and fresh was this one's called fit and
01:06:00.760
fresh and it's kind of the more diverse version of the more popular one that you see that goes
01:06:10.120
So it's, it's kind of like the non-white version of whatever it's, um, uh, or one of the guys
01:06:18.740
Uh, the other guy is a black guy and the fit guy is, um, is Muslim apparently.
01:06:23.220
Um, but they talk about how women, you know, if their thoughts, they're going to be consequences,
01:06:30.680
And, um, but I think they generate a ton of views.
01:06:33.320
It's something that, you know, I mean, these are, they're sort of breaking these taboos and,
01:06:37.060
but the, the latest taboo is talking about the Holocaust and talking about Jews, right?
01:06:41.580
Um, so, uh, Nick was on there, uh, because Nick is part of this sort of, he's, he's, I
01:06:48.260
think he, he's still kind of a black sheep in this sort of constellation of like East
01:06:54.680
He's like a player in the sort of East lab game.
01:06:57.900
And, uh, but, and, you know, he says controversial and taboo things so that that's a way of, it's
01:07:05.900
It's a way of drawing audiences, but it's also a way of, um, potentially getting deep
01:07:12.940
And I don't know what's going to happen with rumble, uh, that, you know, they have to
01:07:18.120
I think that they would have to be careful about, um, having the sort of debates that they've
01:07:23.480
I mean, maybe that is a kind of relatively open platform.
01:07:26.940
Uh, I mean, to, to, to me, the, the image of a, of a skinny kind of twink, like Nick
01:07:33.180
Fuentes surrounded by 300 pound black women is a almost perfect encapsulation of where
01:07:42.220
It's kind of like a reverse image of the blacked kind of thing, but I won't even go there
01:07:47.880
further, but doesn't this get at the, the contradictions of it all?
01:07:55.520
They're exposed to sexual imagery beyond the imagination, like no generation before.
01:08:02.480
I mean, they're, they're living on the internet.
01:08:09.240
Yet they're not achieving orgasm with another human being, you know?
01:08:14.200
So it's, it's this weird con, you know, it's like they're, they're, they, they're, they're
01:08:19.280
Christians and they're like demanding purity and, you know, uh, shaming women and all this
01:08:25.640
Yet they're ultimately sexless and thus kind of understandably like attracted to this notion
01:08:33.240
of a girl with the big tits and booty and who's available.
01:08:37.280
I mean, it's getting at the contradiction that is their existence.
01:08:43.380
And, and so that's why I think it is successful.
01:08:49.400
I couldn't imagine like patronizing this kind of content, but, but it's real for them.
01:08:55.020
Like, this is the authenticity that they have is like a Hitler loving Catholic woman shamer
01:09:01.760
being blacked by a big booty train, you know, like that's it.
01:09:09.520
Do you think the attraction goes the other way?
01:09:11.780
Do you think the booty train is like, Ooh, this is quite a little, they're like, he, he bad.