Lily The Rise of Evil is a TikTok streamer and pundit who has become an internet sensation. She's a salty, foul-mouthed Southern chick who's mad about things in the world, and she seems like a girl you'd want to meet in a bar who would say wild stuff and just, you know, next thing you're being arrested for public nudity and vandalism.
00:02:13.080She doesn't really have a political ideology or program.
00:02:19.120And so, this explosion of popularity, this kind of, like, transferring, it's not even 15 minutes of fame.
00:02:29.660It might be literally 15 minutes of fame in the sense that people talked about her on X, about, you know, they're either outraged or they thought it was based or they just simply thought it was funny.
00:02:41.620To translate that into punditry, I think, does reveal quite a bit about the world we're living in.
00:02:51.860It reminds me a lot of the girl on the plane who also was a bit, also a foul-mouthed Southern girl.
00:05:43.700Um, they are just not, I'm sure there are sitcoms on NBC, but they're not relevant in the way.
00:05:51.060And here I'm showing my age a little bit, but they're not relevant in the way that everyone knew about Cheers, for example, or the Cosby show or family ties or Seinfeld into the nineties, et cetera.
00:06:06.960Even if you didn't watch it, you sort of knew about it and knew about the characters.
00:06:11.620And there was some sort of commonality among the American nation in terms of, you should know about this.
00:06:21.460There, he, these characters are sort of archetypes or they express something about the world.
00:06:29.500And, you know, there, we have a common currency that we can talk to each other through television shows.
00:06:38.640As kind of stupid as that sounds, there is a need for some sort of common culture in a technological age.
00:06:47.940That need is not met by the church and it is met through technology or the television.
00:06:54.360This still exists to some degree, I think with sports, um, no longer, uh, boxing or baseball, which used to be the big ones.
00:07:05.700Like, you know, you know, who's in the Superbowl, you know,
00:07:08.280about Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift, et cetera.
00:07:11.100And you can talk about it, but beyond some examples like that, and maybe comic book movies five years ago, there's no common culture.
00:07:21.800We're just in these weird little niches.
00:07:24.240And so punditry or politics has come in to replace entertainment.
00:07:31.360And so there's, you know, like Lily or the plane girl are the little Cosby's of our time.
00:07:43.780And I'm not accusing them of rape when I say that, of course.
00:07:48.840They serve as a core culture for these fragmented communities.
00:07:58.520The other thing that I think is worth saying about Lily is that they, I, there's this desire among conservatives.
00:08:10.280They talk about free speech and all this kind of stuff.
00:08:12.760There's this libido or idiocy as I guess HL Mencken would say, there's this notion of a kind of innocent based person who will just say something wildly stupid.
00:08:27.160And that means that she's sort of on side, like free speech isn't about talking about very serious issues.
00:08:38.100Like, are you going to question the existence of God or discuss in a detailed fashion, the Israel lobby or, you know, claim that OJ is innocent or whatever issue that is controversial.
00:09:10.540And Alex Jones, his free speech rights need to be protected so that he can take his shirt off and scream and claim that, you know, the school shooting didn't happen or, you know, call someone a franny loving woke lesbian or whatever the hell he wants to do.
00:09:36.620Like, it's free speech is this kind of expression of idiotic outrage.
00:09:49.240And that's really what it means to be based.
00:09:51.580So even the fact that she said broke-ass nigga, so she said the A version of the N word, it's kind of equivocal because it's like, is she quoting rap lyrics?
00:10:05.460Is she kind of ironically referencing Black culture?
00:10:09.660You would certainly hear, you know, B-A-N said many times if you were, you know, hanging out in certain cities or in the South or whatever.
00:10:22.240Is that a kind of natural parlance of this young woman who lives in the South and is probably around, you know, a lot of Black people?
00:10:30.920Is it, you know, or is she kind of aggressively attacking Black people, which is the, you know, the essence of the N word with the hard R, the more kind of nasty version?
00:11:19.900Is she the Democratic Party trying to push us in the wrong direction?
00:11:25.540Even though it is all of the, the griper, the griper is writ large, like just the online community.
00:11:33.160They are the ones promoting this woman.
00:11:35.880They are the ones obsessing about her, you know, et cetera.
00:11:41.020And then they're also the ones who are claiming that she is like, was in a lab in Israel and sent to us by Netanyahu to like grip up America.
00:11:52.700Or whatever, it just, it's like, and it's all that, even that conspiracy theory, as I would say is unlikely as it is, it kind of like all folds into one thing.
00:12:05.880So anyway, those are my thoughts on Lily, who, again, just personally speaking, I don't really have any problem with, but as a phenomenon is just idiotic and bizarre.
00:12:21.680But what, what do you guys think about Lily?
00:12:25.940Do you have anything to add here that she's accused of having, she's a single mom, apparently.
00:12:31.780I think she has confirmed that she's accused of having a mixed child.
00:37:10.100You know, he, this is a pro-Trump movement.
00:37:12.520Both Charlie Kirk and Nick Fuentes are pushing in the same direction.
00:37:17.140They're pushing towards a populist America first movement that is going to elect Donald Trump.
00:37:24.620Now, Nick might be a more thoughtful and critical and introspective on this when you get him alone.
00:37:31.440But when he's leading the troops, he's not.
00:37:33.860He is pushing in the direction of Trump.
00:37:37.960I don't know how you could read it as anything other than that.
00:37:41.200And so my TPUSA kind of quietly tolerate AFPAC.
00:37:46.500So, you know, it's kind of like, I guess, the kids table or, you know, like I, these, these meetings that businessmen or like lawyers or doctors have.
00:37:59.620You know, I went to a number of these when I was a kid where, you know, my father would go to lectures during the day.
00:38:07.540And then, you know, this would take place in, you know, Boston or whatever.
00:38:11.980So you could go to, you know, a cool thing at a great restaurant or baseball game or whatever at night.
00:38:20.400So it's a kind of add on like, you know, there's some car salesman convention and they just so happen to have it in Tampa, Florida, because, you know, it's got the most strip clubs in the world per capita.
00:38:33.780And so you can go to the meetings during the day and then have fun, let your hair down at night, have fun.
00:38:40.060You know, is, does, does AFPAC serve like that?
00:38:43.340It's kind of like the id of TPUSA or the, you know, the, the unspeakable, grotesque extracurricular activity of UTPSA.
00:38:56.960You go to TPSA, but then you, you know, you sneak off at 6 p.m. and listen to Nick Flint or whatever.
00:39:15.020And then also, I'm curious if you could kind of like give us a sense of the scene and so on.
00:39:20.500Um, so, I mean, I would push back a little bit, um, on one thing you said about how, um, sorry, I'm a little bit nervous talking to Richard Spencer here.
00:39:31.880Um, so I would push back a little bit on, um, the idea that at the end of the day, Nick is pushing, um, for a Trump election that TPUSA tolerates him a little bit.
00:39:42.220Um, cause what it feels like is Nick is really getting attacked in two directions because simultaneously while people, and I'm, I'm a fan of yours and I'm a fan of the movement.
00:40:36.180But, um, if you, so Sneeko doesn't feel comfortable at AFPAC anymore, is that what I saw?
00:40:42.220Apparently there was a tweet yesterday where, or I think he was doing an analysis video of Nick's, uh, monologue, like laughing at the fact that he got punched in the face and Sneeko's words were all always be an inward hard R to them.
00:40:56.160Like I'll always be a knick to them basically.
00:40:58.960Um, which was kind of funny the way he compared it to like, uh, Sam Jackson and Leo.
00:41:15.900And I, there's so many different ways this can go, but, um, I think, I think being a minority in an explicitly pro white movement, and this is something I've had to do myself.
00:41:25.960If you're a minority in an explicitly pro white movement, you almost have to sacrifice a part of yourself and not let your, um, kind of racial baggage weigh you down.
00:41:35.600You're not going to make it in a movement where you're thinking I'm always an N word to them.
00:41:39.520You have to almost sacrifice a piece of yourself.
00:41:45.260Let me, let me put a little pressure on that, but, but, but isn't it kind of strange to be a minority in a pro white movement?
00:41:54.480And because I agree, I, a lot of people are saying like, oh, it's, um, it, it, it, it's, um, it's, uh, AF is non white at this point.
00:42:05.000And it's a bunch of Latinos and Indians.
00:42:07.480And I, I, I've never really bought that.
00:42:10.020I mean, I, I think there, there might be a surprising amount of those people, but I would say it's 90, at least the very least 90% white kids.
00:42:21.540Like I'll concede that it is, um, odd, like for a biracial person to be on a Richard Spencer call and, uh, you know, be like, be like a person who's giving speeches, you know, outside of TPUSA in favor of Nick.
00:42:36.060Um, it is a bit odd, but at the end of the day, I mean, this is not to sound like a total normie here, but I mean, it's objectively a good thing.
00:42:43.780If America remains a white nation, even, but even for me, so, um, that's what I would say to that.
00:42:50.040It's, it's, it's in my interest too, to make sure that, you know, the demographic makeup of this country is, uh, functional.
00:42:57.520So that's what I would say as far as that.
00:43:00.460Um, and yeah, the, the only thing I'd push back on as far as what you said about Nick, um, it feels like he's getting attacked from both sides.
00:43:08.480Because while you're saying that he's pushing in the same direction as Trump, he's getting a lot of hate from the right, like the normie right for, for saying that he will only vote for Trump under certain circumstances.
00:43:22.880His, I mean, he's getting attacked for saying for, for not pushing enough for Trump from the right.
00:43:29.520Um, so it, it's kind of one or the other.
00:43:32.000Is he not pushing in Trump's direction or is he because at his speech at, um, not at AFPAC cause AFPAC was canceled, but outside of the TPUSA thing where he gave the balcony speech, he said very explicitly that his vote for Donald Trump was contingent.
00:43:48.040It was not a blind vote and the crowd was very supportive of that.
00:43:52.420So if what you're saying is true and I'm not, I don't want, I don't really want this to be a debate about America first, um, to like, I'm, I'm more here just to kind of provide like,
00:44:03.720Um, yeah, but, but I mean, if what you're saying is true, then he would have gone up there and just showed Trump for 40 minutes and he didn't do that actually did the exact opposite of that for about 40 minutes.
00:44:15.740I mean, he, he mentioned explicitly last week or the week before that, you know, Donald Trump needs to give us something for us to vote for him.
00:44:27.340Well, but at the same time, it's hard to imagine AFP and the Fuentes phenomenon outside of Trump.
00:44:35.980So it's a, it's, it is a kind of weird.
00:44:39.340I was having this debate with a friend of mine who's more involved in normie politics and, um, like the, like the MAGA sphere.
00:44:46.060Um, and I think what Nick is setting up right now is what, like exactly like you just said, what America first looks like post Trump.
00:44:55.480And I think he's setting it up very well.
00:44:58.000Um, it was an interesting, the way he framed it in his show was, um, I think it was perfect.
00:45:03.180But the fact that Trump went, I forgot what the conference was called, but Trump was at a libertarian conference a couple of weeks ago, trying to court the vote of how many people.
00:45:15.080I mean, just a few goofy people and he's over there trying to court, court these people who are booing him.
00:45:20.140It's kind of equivalent of him going to the South side of Chicago saying I was the best president for blacks when they're not going to vote for him.
00:45:26.980Um, so it's, I mean, if he can try to court, this was Nick's point, if he can try to court these people who aren't going to vote for him, he at the very least can give some lip service to the further right wing of the party.
00:45:38.740The people that were on his team from day one, like Nick.
00:45:56.980I mean, the only problem, you know, Trump does give lip service to the far right.
00:46:04.220I mean, at least he did in 2015 and 2016.
00:46:08.660And he now gives lip service to QAnon.
00:46:13.540And in the sense that he'll still like retweet a QAnon supporter on true social or something like that.
00:46:21.980Now in 2015 and 2016, you know, if you, what is it once as a coincidence, you know, twice as suspicious, thrice as a conspiracy, or there, there's some sort of phrasing like that.
00:46:35.400It's like, it's like, if he just happened to tweet the sheriff star, so-called, then maybe we could kind of say he wasn't doing it.
00:46:45.380But he consistently was playing footsie with be all right at the time.
00:46:54.780And even anti-Semitism with the sheriff star or even fascism by retweeting a Mussolini quote about, you know, it's better to live one day as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb or whatever that quote was.
00:47:09.340Just some kind of fashy Nietzschean line attributed to Mussolini and, and so on and so on and so on.
00:47:17.520Like he does, he, he kind of is the equivalent of Lily dropping an in-bomb and he does do that.
00:47:29.320Now by 2020, you know, if we can kind of like rewind and go back to where we were at that time, you know, the, the alt-right as it was, as it was associated with me and as it emerged at that time, what was, I would say over.
00:47:49.140And, but he was no doubt, even the fact that he, you know, administered the creation of the vaccine and the distribution of the vaccine and so on, he was still playing to the crowd of people who, who made up Q.
00:48:07.960And Steve Bannon was just outright quoting Q and saying, the storm is upon us.
00:48:16.420It's here, you know, days before January 6th.
00:48:19.180So if there's one thing Trump is good at, it's that it's, it's plausibly, plausibly deniable right-wing extremist rhetoric.
00:48:31.860And whether he's going to play to AF is a question though.
00:48:38.580I don't, I agree with you that he's played, in your words, footsie with the far right in the past, but there's no indication that he is willing to come off of support for Israel whatsoever.
00:48:49.460And the hundred million dollar check for Miriam Adelson says that as well.
00:48:53.100And I think that that's what Nick's, one of Nick's biggest concerns would be.
00:48:56.800And I think that that's what fundamentally differentiates him from TPUSA.
00:49:01.040Charlie Kirk and Nick has talked about this too.
00:49:03.200Charlie Kirk will, and like you said, plenty of Connie will now talk about cutting the foreign aid to Israel, but they won't talk about Jewish influence.
00:49:15.620Because yeah, it's very easy to say, well, that $3.8 billion could be used in the black schools.
00:49:21.140That's probably the next thing they're going to do, to be honest.
00:49:24.180But that doesn't answer the question of like the fact that, you know, Anthony Blinken is visiting Israel or visiting Russia saying, not sorry, not visiting Russia, visiting Israel saying, I'm not here as an American.
00:49:36.640I'm here as a Jew, that doesn't, you know, cutting the $3.8 billion doesn't fix that problem.
00:49:42.520That doesn't fix Alexander Mayorkas being Jewish and his motivations coming from his family escaping the shtetls and the Holocaust, you know, and Charlie Kirk is never going to talk about that.
00:49:55.160So I think that that's where Nick differentiates himself.
00:49:58.460And that's a line that I don't ever see Charlie Kirk crossing or Trump for that matter.
00:50:56.880And he also, like 2016, I don't think we should overestimate the kind of like Bernie support for Trump, Bernie bro support for Trump, not Bernie himself, of course, who kowtowed to Hillary.
00:51:09.760But there was a sort of like left wing Trumpism that, you know, it's small.
00:51:24.520Like if he did some weird thing while saying, you know, well, I'm actually going to bring Israel to heel or I'm going to move off support of Israel or what Israel is doing is terrible and inhumane.
00:51:37.720It would muddy the waters enough where like a non a non zero number of leftists would say, well, fuck it.
00:54:42.480But he's he's one of the he's one of the America first larger accounts like myself.
00:54:47.300And we organized about 20 or 30 people outside of the event.
00:54:52.160Now, obviously, they didn't let us in because we didn't have lanyards and stuff.
00:54:55.560But we hung out outside, which felt stupid at first.
00:54:59.560But slowly, like boomers, you'd be surprised, like a lot of boomers and Gen Xers eventually started coming up to us and being like, what's y'all's like?
00:55:38.280Everything feels like a Mike Wendell pillow shucking.
00:55:42.020And I think people are I think people are starting to feel that.
00:55:45.380And even though I completely grant you that TPUSA is, you know, blowing AF out of the water in terms of fundraising and influence even right now.
00:55:54.340But I think the writing is on the wall.
00:55:56.080And I think that that's what Nick is setting the stage for.
00:56:32.740Like they, you know, I mean, when they were chanting Christ is king at TPUSA and not, you know, Zionism forever or whatever, whatever they might, you know, so I don't know.
00:56:54.460I guess what I'm saying, because that's what Charlie Kirk has successfully done.
00:56:57.820But yeah, I again, though, I still think that a lot of those people, the people who are chanting Christ is king in that speech or in that crowd with Candace, I would say most of them, maybe this is kind of proves your point.
00:57:34.000Whereas the people in America first, when they're chanting Christ is king, when we're leading a Christ is king chant, it's much more.
00:57:42.540I mean, we know we know what we're saying.
00:57:45.320So I think there's the conviction there that you don't have with TPUSA.
00:57:48.080So, yeah, I don't I don't know if that answers anything, but I think there's an outsized conviction with America first, where it punches above its weight is what I would say.
00:58:02.180So what was the so so the the event itself was canceled, right?
00:58:07.680Yeah, there was like a balcony speech given by Fuentes and other people outside on the hotel.
01:00:52.100So, yeah, we get the notification saying that AFPAC is canceled.
01:00:57.280Spexo and I kind of have an oh-shit moment of, like, we have 200 or 300 people here now.
01:01:02.460Like, what are we going to do with this?
01:01:05.620From there, we decide, let's just take this group of people to across the TPUSA thing.
01:01:11.800I can see on the screen you have my, uh, the video that I think that I ever pulled up.
01:01:16.640But that's, that's the setting behind this video.
01:01:18.840So we take about, or this, this moment in the video, this, the, that lasted about two or three hours.
01:01:25.080So we take everyone, it's about, again, two or 300 people, um, maybe 150 to 200, um, to the, to the place that's in the video.
01:01:33.420So, um, and from there, we basically, me, Spexo, and maybe two or three other America First people who do speaking and content, um, said, like, okay, let's at least try to keep the crowd interested.
01:01:46.320Like, we didn't want to have everyone disband because we're already here.
01:01:49.700Um, and we started giving speeches, um, Pine Sap, who's another guy, um, ended up leading a rosary that was about 500 people deep, all saying the rosary, which was pretty cool.
01:02:04.380Um, so yeah, we spent about three hours just giving speeches, engaging the crowd, keeping everyone hyped.
01:02:09.940Um, and then Spexo around 4.30 or 5 is in a group chat with Nick and Nick is saying, should I come to this?
01:02:16.080Because apparently clips had started to leak out and Nick talked about this on a show on Monday.
01:02:20.740Clips had started to come out of the crowd of four or 500.
01:02:23.680It swelled to about 500 at that point of people chanting, we want Nick.
01:02:27.520So eventually Nick was in, in the group chat with Spexo saying, should I come to this?
01:02:32.860And apparently in the, in the conversation, Nick eventually said, all right, I'm on my way.
01:02:37.820Um, so from there we had to keep the crowd kind of engaged for another 40 minutes.
01:02:41.660And then once it had swelled to about a thousand, I want to say maybe, maybe 800 to a thousand was when the crowd started kind of rustling and people could see that, or actually Jake Shields got there first.
01:02:53.940And that was kind of the first indication that Nick was coming.
01:02:57.300And then from there, we kind of see the crowd rustling and, um, Nick just kind of, uh, flanks the crowd and starts to go up the, up the, uh, the stairway up to the rooftop.
01:03:08.940And from there, kind of the rest is history.
01:03:12.420Well, let's listen to your speech and then we'll play Nick's speech as well.