Unconscious Cinema - The Terminator
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 11 minutes
Words per Minute
152.32803
Summary
In this episode, we discuss the iconic film "Terminator" and "terminator 2" by Arnold Schwarzenegger. We discuss the themes of the films, their influences, and the many layers to the film and its legacy.
Transcript
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mark uh let's get started all right yeah terminator let's see you you have a kind of uh
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you have a ceremonial question you ask right it's uh when did i first see the film yes well
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what were my early impressions of the film uh yeah so um i actually don't remember the first
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time i saw it but i in fact i'm not certain that i saw it in the theater um but i it was one of
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these films that any like sort of um hot-blooded american uh boy just you know you like the
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terminator it had schwarzenegger um it obviously was it's highly kind of fascistic in its aesthetic
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um yes yeah um did you when did you first see it on vhs i'm i'm kind of because you're a little
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bit you're a couple years older than i am i i'm i'm going i'm i was born in 1978 i should i was
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about to say i'm 38 years old but someone might be listening to this podcast like 10 years from now
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um but wait you're gonna all right you're gonna tell the girls that already
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i was born in 1993 um no i i was born in 1978 i am uh the ultimate gen x-er um i was born in the
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carter administration um yeah so i grew up i was i grew up basically in the 80s and 90s obviously i was
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um i i definitely remember the vhs revolution and terminator was um you know it it was it definitely
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wasn't my favorite film going up but it was one of those badass films that i remember going over to
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like my friend jace's house and you know we would just flip on terminator maybe he even had it on
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laser disc at one point uh but uh yeah at that point um you know some of the the scenes of terminator
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for a kid who's like you know let's say eight years old or something uh some of these the the
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brutality of some of the scenes is shocking i mean it's even shocking to me now as a jaded
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you know guy going into his middle age um the you know the arnie's like opening kill of the another
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sarah connor uh where you have this you know just frumpy old woman who answers the
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answers the door and he just shoves the door it's filmed in slow motion and and coldly
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dispassionately uh with no pity or remorse blows her away
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that was pretty tough stuff and uh so it was it was a kind of terrifying movie and the movie is a
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kind of a horror film at some other levels like there are there are some tropes of the horror movie
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in terminator um uh to be sure so yeah that that's that's how i saw it um again it wasn't my favorite
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i probably was more into like indiana jones i was definitely into star wars when i got a little older
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i my obsession with james bond began um but it was that like you know badass movie and i had i don't
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think i watched it for i you know i might have even gone like 20 years without watching the film
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and um and then i revisited it about maybe like five or six years ago to the first one and i just
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recognized that there was a lot going on and um then revisited t2 as well another we're gonna we're
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just going to kind of combine these two films terminator and terminator 2 into one uh film
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obviously we'll talk about the differences but um but i i also recognize that there was a lot going
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on so let's let's start off with terminator with just the obvious and that is that this movie is about
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fascism and it's not just fascism it is about nazism and you could say that it's you know arnie
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was a arnie was become arnie became a huge star after this film uh as in a way as a direct result
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of the terminator uh but he was already you know going strong um and you know again after this he
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became the arnie that we know where every summer there was a new arnie action blockbuster
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um as we all know growing up but so it is there is something kind of ridiculous about the fact
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that you have you know he's a terminator sent from the future and yet he's a uh you know he's a he's
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an infiltration unit and yet he is a you know massive austrian uh who speaks with a germanic accent
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and is almost a almost you could say a um like a cartoon version of a nazi and you could definitely
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see that in conan as well he has brown hair but he is a blonde um light-eyed uh uh just
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unbelievable badass who uh you know in a way is objectively dumb in his kind of brutal nature but
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you can tell is is actually deeply intelligent and ruthless and cold-blooded and so the first thing you
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have to understand is that you know this terminator is about nazis attacking us and maybe that's a
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good jumping off point for other layers to this film yeah i know i mean that's 100 the case so um
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starting at the beginning of the film there's a there's and it seems like it may or may not be
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deliberate but um at the beginning of the film arnold appears in this um this flash of lightning
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and the imagery is very kind of greco-roman he it looks as though uh zeus or jupiter has arrived on
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earth and um you know it's the these are some of the most kind of memorable scenes in the film
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and um and then shortly thereafter uh reese who's his um um his rival uh arrives and the contrast
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between the two figures uh becomes uh clear uh very rapidly as they both um go about uh navigating
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them um the present uh day reese just drops out of the sky i mean i think that's also significant um
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arnie again appears to this lightning which might you know that maybe that's just a cool special
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effect but it it it yes it's hard not to see a zeus um metaphor say in the lightning or or a you know
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indication in the lightning and reese and reese there is some lightning as well but he basically
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you know arnie arises in this like he meant he's meant to be there and he walks over and looks out over
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the city of los angeles like he's just gonna rule the entire place uh reese on the other hand is is
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literally dropped out of the sky he lands and although reese is obviously a highly like competent
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hero um you know he's he's scrambling around you know he's running from the police running for his life
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you know getting whatever he can find uh arnie basically you know emerges kneeling and comes
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out in this just reef install-esque pose and is you know basically ruling the place it's also i'll just
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add in just a little bit of you know background um when james cameron was casting this film he was
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originally looking at arnold schwarzenegger as kyle reese but he basically i and i i think he
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obviously made the right choice and he probably did it on because of the unconscious myth at the heart
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of this movie um which is a jewish myth and a christian myth but he it was just like he has to be the
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terminator there's no you know you can't cast him as reese he's this is this is the terrifying image
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from james cameron's nightmare is an austrian nazi coming to us from the future
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i guess the contrast in their first appearance has less to do with the way they appear they both
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in my uh my idea of it is they both appear as sort of these different types of gods right on on one hand
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you have this this aryan figure in uh schwarzenegger and then you have a what will end up uh being kind
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of a semitic figure um in the figure of uh reese and he'll um his his whole way of operating i mean
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he's a very resourceful uh figure in the film obviously but it's more he has to uh base his um
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survival on flight and guile and escape um whereas with schwarzenegger i mean he's he's basically this
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kind of indestructible superman who is very uh kind of forthright he doesn't he doesn't have to hide or
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cower because he's he's the stronger uh being um and uh so there's a certain kind of honesty i suppose
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to his uh his tact in the world versus a kind of guile and cleverness on the on the part of um
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uh reese um who's wearing like a pervert raincoat he's you know a mackintosh like he's he's walking
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around like he's some pervert who's stalking uh um sarah connor that's also kind of an interesting
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you know dynamic where it's like sarah connor before arnie comes into this nightclub
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but i mean amazing scene tech noir nightclub um you know it's like she thinks that reese is some
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perv who's stalking her and she's trying to get away from him um and it is definitely like an
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interesting uh you know dichotomy between the uh the aryan badass and this just kind of shifty um
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you know shifty kind of almost sinister looking figure who's chasing her and these things are
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really i mean especially with the case of reese i mean he's he's uh these things are are pretty
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subtle i mean the guy is also um he's obviously like sort of a leading man type he's a good-looking
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guy and he's um you know he doesn't in any in no obvious way does he appear to be a somatic figure
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for example is michael bean who's yeah obviously as gentile as he comes but his character is
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definitely jewish and i i think when you you know i i don't know if we we we can dive into that like
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uh that tech noir scene before we talk about when i i think reese's identity is revealed i i think
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pretty explicitly actually but um you know in that tech noir scene and this is um i actually first
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appreciated this by watching rob ager's uh analysis of this but you know it the tech noir
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obviously there there is a the the terminator is like a horror film at some level it's it draws on
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that it draws on hard action movies like dirty harry or um death wish or something like that but
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it it also is this kind of genre that maybe it even invented this tech noir
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it is interesting a lot of the music um the score is sounds a little sounds it's pretty synthy
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um when you listen to it and uh they the club is called tech noir and that that is almost like
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what the genre cameron's creating is like the sci-fi film noir uh genre but but there's also
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another layer to it which is that when they go into when she goes in that club this is the you know
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the public place where the police tell her to go she knows that she's on the run she knows someone's
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hunting her killing sarah connors and she goes into this club that is basically a kind of like
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image of the future and you know it's like she's in a concentration camp i mean the the walls are
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literally metal barbed barbed wire but they're they're mesh fencing and you and you have this
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like steel graded steel walls and she's she's already in a concentration camp and they're all
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in a concentration camp and they just don't know it so you have people dancing to 80s music but
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they're ultimately already they're already in the future and there are all these other little
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like very subtle but i i think unequivocal hints of this and again rob ager goes into this right
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he's he's definitely influenced a lot of what i'm saying here but when um the answering machine of
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sarah connor's roommate uh says hello oh just i tricked you you're talking to a machine hi there
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fooled you you're talking to a machine but don't be shy it's okay machines need love too so talk to it
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and ginger that's me or sarah will get back to you wait for the beat
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it's just like a metaphor for the entire film uh just right in that little like answering machine
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joke i got you for our millennial for our millennial listening listeners the answering machine is an
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it's an ancient object using something called cassette tapes that would connect to the phone line and
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it was before we had voicemail before the age before twitter we had these you know barbaric boxes
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that we would record things on but anyway um you know so so you know that's that that's where they are
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they're already there she's already in a technological concentration camp at the beginning of the film
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and then if you if you kind of like go forward like once once reese blows arnie away
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and with a shotgun and they they make their escape um there's this you know exposition
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portion of the film and and this is this is the first time when you know that arnie is a terminator
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like you see something from his viewpoint and it's that like red screen with digital you know printout
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kind of thing um and and then you have this exposition where reese you know tells her what's
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going on and he lays out this this um vision of the future dystopian vision that i think actually
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is now we're now all totally familiar with like even if you haven't seen the terminator you're almost
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like aware of some of these tropes like you know the machines became self-aware there's skynet which
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is a microprocessor a computer program that was you know um worked you know doing you know defense
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systems and it recognized that it wasn't just russians that were a threat but all humankind were
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a threat to skynet and it you know again in this self-awareness it launched it created a nuclear war
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which billions died and then and then after that it just engaged in this mop up of uh of humans and
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kyle reese basically to prove this to um sarah connor linda hamilton uh he shows her a barcode
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that's been tattooed on him and he talks about being rounded up and put into camps
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hiding from hk's hk's hunter killers patrol machines built in automated factories
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most of us were rounded up putting camps for orderly disposal
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voting bodies the disposal units ran night and day we were that close to going out forever
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at that point i think the symbolism just has to be conscious um that this is a story about the
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holocaust and this is a story about a future holocaust it's a story about nazis maybe coming
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at us from the past but instead of the future but nazis rounding up jews and and symbolically
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speaking reese and sarah connor are jewish sure yeah and as are christians actually so and and i think
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yeah so but i think that more explicitly they're intended as christians but i mean that that sort of um
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makes the point that um you know christianity is this this branch of judaism and the the narrative of
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uh you know saints um uh being martyred in rome uh is very similar uh is a very similar narrative to
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the holocaust right so a lot of the uh kind of emotional uh energy of uh christianity is based on
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this premise of uh martyrs suffering and in particular jesus christ right so it the narrative the
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narratives are very similar um of the holocaust and the christian story it's not the christianity
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is not a story and this is one way in which um uh the terminator sort of necessarily diverges from a
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christian metaphor is that they're not saints and martyrs uh they're a resistance fighting against
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uh the uh these sort of uh metaphorical nazis right right um so in in it's funny because actually
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the movie would no one or at least the audience that they're uh they were going for would not be
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interested in the film if they were uh you know effectively christians right but their method of
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fighting is is not through the word it's through uh warfare it's through the valor of warfare
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and um so i think that that's uh how they in one way they sort of diverge from the christian
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narrative um but in general i mean i i don't know that if you've mentioned this already but um
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uh the yeah so the immaculate birth i mean it's a very it's very clear um that john connor is intended
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as uh jc jesus christ and that's that acronym is likely intended no doubt
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but there was one man who taught us to fight to storm the wire of the camps to smash those
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he turned it around he brought us back from the brink his name is connor
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maybe it's something he'd given uh you've given deeper thought
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to well you have to be a little bit of an egomaniac to make it in hollywood i would say that
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so um we shouldn't really judge james cameron for giving his uh his superhero a uh his own uh
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acronym um george lucas that you know luke skywalker and george lucas there's probably a
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little connection there whether conscious or unconscious so it's it's fine you know you have
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to be you know to achieve greatness you must be a narcissist you know the other thing too that we
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we should uh point out if it's not already obvious now is that um christianity is being juxtaposed with
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uh nazism right so in other words or or even i would say eugenics right because effectively uh these
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robots represent metaphorically um you know the development of a superman you know and uh so
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the film kind of clear clearly posits correctly um christianity is kind of a an anti-eugenic force
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against um uh you know national socialism um eugenics right and i think that that's that's sort of the
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correct place to put um christianity i do i i do think that it is uh effectively anti-eugenic
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and um yeah let me i'll go into that like it is interesting when you when you look at the the
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visuals of the terminator which have become iconic which are amazing stan winston did the visual effects
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and so he he did all the the modeling you know some of the stuff in terminator hasn't aged that well
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you know you we we now clearly see it as a a a model as a you know a visual effect when when arnie
00:22:00.260
is like fixing himself and cutting himself open and things like that we live in the age of cgi and not
00:22:05.540
you know you know whatever but even even if it hasn't aged that well like you can appreciate the
00:22:10.580
artistry brilliant stuff and just the the icon of the terminator like when the terminator
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walks when when arnie is like stripped of his skin and he walks out of the fire uh there is just
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something nightmarish just really brilliant about that art but but like let's let's ask ourselves
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some some questions like and this is where i you're totally right that basically skynet is a eugenic
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force and it's uh you know it is a kind of national socialism it is creating a superman why are they
00:22:43.120
creating the why is skynet creating the human form in order to destroy humans it doesn't really make
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sense i mean skynet's a computer program you know a microprocessor or something there's no there's no
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reason to believe that creating these like six foot three you know arian supermen is like a good way of
00:23:05.340
killing people i mean it could just as easily like i mean it's less cinematic but it could just as easily
00:23:10.980
just like create a micro organism like virus that kills everyone like influenza or something you know
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like there's no need to create arnies that go around blowing people away with laser guns you know
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and so you have to ask like what so where does where does that visual myth come from and the visual myth
00:23:35.120
of the terminator is the superman and he is the he is better than we are through a you know mechanized
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breeding program we reach a we reach this new human being that is you know as as as nietzsche talked about
00:23:52.540
he he's as far away from us as we are from the great apes um yeah and so that's what the image is and
00:24:02.120
that's what's so terrifying is that he is superior maybe before we go into more of the technology stuff
00:24:07.900
i i actually think we should like press a little bit on like more of the the the notion of like time
00:24:16.940
and this but but also the the christian myth i mean john connor is jesus christ he is a jew who is going to
00:24:25.200
redeem all mankind um he is born through an immaculate conception and you know i um i i recognize that yes
00:24:38.040
the immaculate conception in catholic liturgy is actually the conception of mary um but you get my point
00:24:44.660
um he is you know basically mary jesus was born through a sexless union um he she you know joseph
00:24:54.200
who is reese in this in this you know myth uh you know recognizes that he wasn't cucked or i guess
00:25:01.240
he was cucked by god you could say um and there there is this miracle that is the birth and in the
00:25:10.620
terminator myth this is spun as there's this miracle which is that the people from the future um you know
00:25:18.460
come back into time they come back into the past and they impregnate the past with the future this is
00:25:27.820
actually a pretty common metaphor in hollywood movies and i i don't quite know what to make of it i mean
00:25:37.360
this is a very similar metaphor as uh interstellar that's christopher nolan's interstellar
00:25:44.160
um where you know the the the challenge really is to go back in time and send messages from the
00:25:52.060
future to the past this is also very similar to back to the future um which in which again you know
00:25:59.620
you you must save the present by by going back into the past it is it's also no surprise at all that
00:26:07.420
you know what what is the most memorable line from this movie it's one of the most memorable lines
00:26:11.620
in the cinema in cinema i'll be back i'll be back yeah you know it's obviously i think one of the
00:26:21.660
reasons i mean one of the reasons obviously is that arnold schwarzenegger is a badass and when he
00:26:25.700
says it it's just kind of hilarious but but it's it's also like a an embedded like metaphor for the
00:26:32.340
whole process i'll be back and um you know and i think there's also something about like
00:26:39.160
memory and and misremembering i mean we we're always engaging in strategic interventions in our
00:26:47.540
memory and we're always kind of like you know with and a lot of this goes back to narrative you know
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we want to give our lives a story and if our lives just become you know a meaningless jumble of events
00:27:03.480
then we're actually prone to suicide you know there's no meaning to our lives so oftentimes
00:27:08.960
we'll go back and even kind of like reimagine failures you know we'll say oh you know you know
00:27:15.520
that time when you know the game was on the line and i struck out well you know actually i'm glad that
00:27:23.160
that happened because that taught me a new lesson in humility and it taught me to work harder and train
00:27:29.280
even harder for the next game and then you know we'll go back and we'll re-remember something and
00:27:35.040
give it a new meaning and i'm not critical of this in the slightest i think this is actually like we
00:27:41.320
need meaning and we therefore need memory and memory has to have a meaning for us it's not just recalling
00:27:48.220
events or facts it's a memory has a inherent meaning um and so that's that's kind of like in a way that
00:27:56.160
that's a that's one of the reasons why this whole concept of the terminator is is interesting and
00:28:02.300
and provocative and attractive is is because it's we we do this with our with our own memory we'll go
00:28:09.360
back and re-remember history we'll change the meaning of past events in history to to make them have
00:28:15.380
significance for the future for for where we are now um obviously this is something that this is an
00:28:22.080
insight that that nietzsche set down in um on modern observations or however you want to translate that
00:28:29.960
sure no i think that's a that's um those are excellent points um so it's it's uh creating the
00:28:38.200
creating the present uh recreating the present uh by recreating the past so it's effectively a type of
00:28:45.940
uh time travel exactly um yeah no i think those are excellent points um the other idea that i think
00:28:53.580
that we discussed is that um it's there's also i think with these films in general um that as you as
00:29:03.040
you pointed out there's this sense of um if i could go back especially to to correct some regret um
00:29:10.760
it'll repair some regret um you know that occurs in that the film uh back to back to the future for
00:29:17.260
example though it's though it's a comedic film um in this there there's almost there's something
00:29:25.280
deeper going on in the sense that and i think this is occurring unconsciously i don't think this is
00:29:31.820
necessarily what um james cameron had in mind though but there is a sense of the area and going back to
00:29:39.700
you know uh kind of uh eliminate sort of the original sin of christianity in the film um
00:29:48.400
and uh so i mean i think so i think that that is just kind of a youngian thing that's occurring
00:29:54.140
um and then of course in the second film it it hot it sort of happens from the other direction where
00:30:00.640
um sarah connor connor is trying to kind of eliminate um you know the original sin that allowed
00:30:09.120
eugenics yes yep yeah um you know one thing i was going to say though because i don't think it's
00:30:15.900
i think that um in the film i mean it's i think it's it's a little maybe too unnuanced to uh
00:30:24.080
i mean certainly uh john connor is a christ figure and certainly um reese and connor or uh these christian
00:30:32.500
figures uh you know mary and joseph probably is is uh is what they compare to closely or certainly
00:30:39.300
um but there's there are also these uh jewish figures that are effectively uh something like the
00:30:47.100
uh the parisies uh the pharisees um or there's one figure in particular there's a psychiatrist in
00:30:53.640
the film um who believes that um uh sarah connor's mad right yeah and um she's uh and actually the
00:31:04.960
guy plays a bigger role in the second film yeah um and he's more developed where she's actually in
00:31:11.420
a um insane asylum and the guy is like keeping her in an insane asylum um and the the name of that
00:31:20.600
character is uh silberman and uh which is revealed in the second film uh which translates as uh it's a
00:31:27.960
form of silverman so there might be some like kind of judas reference there as well or not i mean i
00:31:34.060
think it's i think it's significant enough that he's uh he's clearly a jewish character uh with the
00:31:40.440
name silberman and he the guy appears to be you know is is could very well be a jew um oh yeah and
00:31:48.440
so he's intended as a jew um so i think that that's another thing uh that james cameron introduced
00:31:55.420
um deliberately now it's subtle enough that um no one would accuse a guy of anti-semitism
00:32:02.460
uh it becomes a little more pronounced in the second film um a couple of things it's it that's
00:32:09.420
that's a kind of trope in his films generally um so in aliens he has a similar figure um i think
00:32:16.100
he's played by uh paul riser yeah and fascinatingly the character's name is uh carter burke
00:32:25.040
which is one of it's one of the most absurdly like you know wasp names yeah yeah you know you
00:32:32.000
might as well be called richard spencer's you know something like sure yeah carter burke uh but
00:32:38.900
uh he he's he basically fits every he he fits every jewish stereotype in the book like the the
00:32:46.400
the actor has a new york accent um he's he's basically like sacrificing the crew in order to make
00:32:54.240
money he doesn't want to kill the aliens because like this is a multi-million dollar installation
00:32:59.180
you know he's he basically thinks uh you know in a mercantile manner let's just bug out and call it
00:33:05.300
even okay what are we talking about this for i say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit
00:33:11.400
it's the only way to be sure fucking hey oh hold on hold on one second this installation has a
00:33:21.540
substantial dollar value attached to it they can bill me okay look this is an emotional moment
00:33:30.260
for all of us okay i know that but let's not make snap judgments please this is clearly clearly an
00:33:37.340
important species we're dealing with and i don't think that you or i or anybody has the right to
00:33:41.720
arbitrarily exterminate them yeah watch us hey maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events but we
00:33:48.820
just got our asses kicked pal it's almost like a brutal jewish stereotype but it's i think james
00:33:55.100
cameron might save himself by giving him this like ridiculously waspy name um but even that almost
00:34:02.780
indicates like again the silverman and then carter burke and aliens which is you know aliens was
00:34:08.480
you know a sequel to alien but um ridley scott's film but it came out between these two films uh i it's
00:34:17.600
i don't know it's it's hard not to read that as uh some kind of awareness on james cameron part
00:34:24.320
james cameron's part um uh or maybe of a sense of like these are the these are the bad jews but
00:34:31.480
these are the really good jews um you know the the the really righteous ones who are the heroes
00:34:36.880
yeah no i mean i think it's i think there is some awareness uh so he's playing a little game there
00:34:43.940
and i don't think that you know the irony though is that and this is the irony to both multiculturalism
00:34:51.020
and christianity is that um you know a person could signal against israel or against orthodox jews
00:34:57.840
um but still believe in multiculturalism um yeah you know which is something that that jews
00:35:05.360
are very much in favor you know on the um kind of exoteric level uh so there you know so he's allowed
00:35:14.460
and i think that this is one of the reasons that christianity was able to become successful
00:35:19.020
is that you can take this sort of moral high ground and you can cede the world to these you
00:35:25.500
know evil people who want you know dominance on earth um but it's you know it's a very it's a very
00:35:33.200
sort of kind of foolish uh position to take i mean i mean almost the better position would be like well
00:35:39.160
yeah i mean you should almost admire these jews because they're they're seeking a kind of earthly
00:35:43.840
dominance yeah um it's kind of like glenn greenwald or the the intercept uh webzine
00:35:52.060
is it what is it his name uh skehill i believe this is um i don't think he's jewish actually
00:35:58.020
anyway um some of their positions which are kind of like harshly anti-israel and and also kind of
00:36:04.140
like anti-war in a way that might even resonate with us um but then it's all in the service of
00:36:10.500
you know transgendered uh homosexual positive multiculturalism multiracialism uh you know
00:36:18.600
it's a certain kind of leftism that that turns on israel in a way that that liberals never would
00:36:24.180
yeah yeah so i mean so there is this kind of uh idiotic smugness to being a kind of multicultural
00:36:34.600
anti-semite and and i and i would extend that to christianity too i'm sorry guys uh i would extend
00:36:42.160
that to christianity as well there's this kind of um i mean and nietzsche makes that remark i mean
00:36:47.960
they there's nothing sort of so foolish as a um a christian anti-semite i mean your god is a jew
00:36:57.040
and uh and i think that people fail to make the distinction uh between uh a jew and a pharisee
00:37:04.640
uh because they're distinct uh the apostles are also jews and they're very jewish in behavior i mean
00:37:11.920
they're not dissimilar in a lot of ways from communists i mean that you know that's a very obvious
00:37:16.740
point that people have made um so basically in uh you know in the second testament you see
00:37:23.960
communists versus capitalists effectively so it's it's the it's the identical sort of false dichotomy
00:37:30.520
um that we're faced with today you know whether it's um uh capitalists versus communists uh democrats
00:37:38.780
versus uh republicans um none of them are trying to help us or none of them are kind of on our team
00:37:45.600
we don't need help obviously but both of them need to fuck up basically i mean you know uh and i
00:37:53.600
so the other thing i was going to just remark is that um he continues the trope uh in um avatar
00:38:02.000
so there's another kind of it's he's he's less pronounced as a jewish figure um he's played by this
00:38:08.880
little italian guy um uh giovanni ribisi yeah i know who you're talking he was insane but ryan also
00:38:17.240
uh it's a good yeah yeah yeah no he's a he's a good actor but he's uh he's sort of he plays a
00:38:23.100
kind of physically meek yeah um he's effectively you know he's a faculty he's effectively a continuation
00:38:29.700
of the trope established by burke and uh silverman um and uh so i just i you know just to just to
00:38:38.780
point out one more incident of it you have uh you sort of have three types contrasted in the film
00:38:44.800
you have this sort of uh uber arian uh you know in um schwarzenegger and i think that these these
00:38:52.220
three types are also repeated in his other films um you have these sort of uber arian kind of
00:38:58.200
cartoonish like militaristic characters in his films um and that's true of aliens in avatar and also
00:39:05.060
uh the terminator series or the those the two terminator films that he made um so you have the
00:39:11.560
arian type and then you have these sort of these these jewish uh figures that are essentially these
00:39:18.260
kind of greedy capitalists but read as these kind of pharisaic jewish characters and then you have the
00:39:23.740
christian character uh and the christian character seems on some level to act he operates in a kind of
00:39:30.520
liminal way between the two types like he's he's not like in other words he's he's a uh a kind of
00:39:38.160
moderate form of the arian type and yet he's he is also um he also has these these jewish aspects so
00:39:49.980
i mean i i just that's just sort of an interesting thing to point out in his films but i think it's
00:39:54.700
also kind of reflected in uh our sort of our our um imaginings of kind of a roman type versus a
00:40:04.640
christian type versus a jewish type and in a way and the christian is a kind of liminal form between
00:40:10.920
uh this kind of arian or roman gentile in the sense that that that is the way effectively uh jews
00:40:19.660
the more jewish type communicates um to the more arian gentile type and fights the more arian gentile type
00:40:28.740
is through this uh this proxy um the christian in my opinion interesting would you relate that to
00:40:38.140
the move in t2 where arnie is ostensibly redeemed basically he he is he's literally reprogrammed
00:40:47.820
um into a protector for jesus christ um that you could almost read that as like the germans and by that
00:40:58.360
we just mean like the europeans as being christianized you know programmatically and yeah
00:41:04.660
yeah no that's exactly and then he's been converted yeah yeah yeah no that's in fact that's made explicit
00:41:11.400
in the film if you watch the young john connor in the second film is basically an apostle and his whole
00:41:18.280
narrative toward um um schwarzenegger is that he shouldn't kill right he should be a moral figure so
00:41:26.100
he's he is effectively christ um uh teaching the arian right and and of course he plays the role
00:41:34.780
in the beginning of the film when he reprograms uh schwarzenegger in the future and then sends him back
00:41:42.000
so he plays he plays it both as a child and as an adult right so the the kind of reprogramming
00:41:48.160
continues through the film um yeah no i think that that's an excellent point to make yeah it also gets
00:41:55.080
another like much bigger theme of all of cameron's oeuvre and and that is anti-fascist fascism
00:42:04.340
and in the sense that in some ways in order to defeat fascism you need to call upon fascistic
00:42:12.300
elements and and so like you know cameron is a fascist filmmaker like he's fascinated with brutality
00:42:21.340
with technology uh with big boats robots uh master races domination and and and so on like he he's
00:42:33.880
clearly fascinated by all this kind of stuff but he the way that he keeps a a unguilty conscious
00:42:41.980
conscience um the you know the way that he makes it all okay i mean that you you can't make a film
00:42:47.480
in hollywood which you know you you have like a rip-roaring account of nazis marching across
00:42:53.560
europe or something like that um but what you have to do is that the the the christian has to call upon
00:43:01.660
fascism or or you know become a bit of a fascist himself in order to fight the fascism and so it's
00:43:09.340
like you need to turn arnie into kyle reese you know which is done in in the second film like you
00:43:17.080
you need to reprogram the arian superman into a christian and then he's good and then you can go
00:43:23.840
away from all this with a with a clean conscience um and you can see a lot of the similar things like
00:43:30.180
in aliens where you know aliens is this interesting you know redemption story of alien i mean in alien
00:43:38.020
by ridley scott which i i think came out in 1979 um you know basically the the humans were just
00:43:46.200
helpless you know and they were all being like symbolically raped by this you know alien sex
00:43:53.840
monster uh which is basically what that you know geiger you know thing was and um you know this thing
00:44:03.380
like it would their tail would slash them they get cut in half and all the cut it would come out of
00:44:09.080
them i mean it just all this kind of stuff um yeah i mean it feels like a kind of uh miscegenation fear
00:44:15.380
oh interesting yeah it is an alien after all like that joke is made in aliens like uh they're with the
00:44:23.360
mech the hispanic or mexican fighter they're like oh yeah you thought it was about illegal aliens
00:44:29.020
um anyway uh that's definitely there i agree but it's like she you know ridley has to call upon
00:44:36.240
fascism in herself and in her in order to defeat fascism so she has to like become a badass and at
00:44:42.720
one point she even like you know puts on she becomes like a reverse terminator where she's a human on the
00:44:49.700
inside but a robot on the outside she gets into this loading machine you know like robot shell
00:44:56.460
basically and she's able to take on the alien um by empowering herself
00:45:07.920
but she's ultimately like good on the inside so that that is like the redeemed arnie is
00:45:17.320
you know he's or or even the the android and aliens where it's this like programmed robot it's a good
00:45:25.000
golem it's a golem that has been set up by the jewish community or the christians
00:45:29.560
in order to fight for them and it actually can be a good thing it can even be like a loving father
00:45:35.980
figure which you know uh arnold schwarzenegger kind of miraculously is um you know i think he's called
00:45:43.820
uncle bob but you know in one kind of jokey moment in t2 um yeah i mean and that i mean that is
00:45:51.320
another aspect of the film is that it it's this sort of it's a terrible cartoon of the aryan type
00:45:59.480
it's just this killing machine i mean it's just very like uh we're more than it's a very you i would
00:46:06.680
like to think that we are yeah i mean uh i don't you know i'm i'm not interested in killing anyone to
00:46:11.780
be honest with you um so i mean i guess the thing that we do admire we admire that our ancestors were
00:46:19.960
warriors though and that were capable of defending themselves um and we we definitely can we connect
00:46:26.920
this to uh masculinity um rightly i think as well um but i think that uh you know so that's just
00:46:36.140
another aspect of the film and of the of the two film series to consider i mean on some bottom level
00:46:44.480
it's the film is you know and i i know you don't like the term and i don't like the term that much
00:46:50.200
either just because i think it is a kind of way of demoralizing ourselves but uh the film has this
00:46:56.160
sort of white genocide theme in it um where he you know in the reprogrammed terminator at the end sort
00:47:03.680
of willingly lowers himself into the vat of lava and kills himself he's like oh i've got to die
00:47:27.260
here i cannot self-terminate you must lower me into the steel
00:47:56.620
i have to go away no don't do it please don't go
00:48:13.300
i order you not to go i order you not to go i order you not to go
00:48:59.720
that's effectively what we're dealing with now is that white people feel that they have to
00:49:08.240
disappear that that's you know i mean and that's no exaggeration you know especially among uh our
00:49:15.380
elites the uh that is the sort of zeitgeist is that they for the world to uh be a better place
00:49:22.480
white people have to disappear they have to lower themselves into the vat of uh lava
00:49:28.020
it's that they'll they will literally say this i mean you can get i mean there we had an article
00:49:34.860
up at all right.com of this this boomer literally saying you know the world's just going to be so
00:49:39.880
much better when people like me are gone and he's not even like an old racist you know that that's
00:49:45.180
what some people think like oh once the all the old racists have died then everything's gonna be fine
00:49:49.140
no no no this guy is like i'm i'm a liberal goofball but i too need to go and it is this like
00:49:56.960
self-sacrifice at the end of t2 which is it is very moving i mean it's it's hard not for a tear to come
00:50:03.180
to my eye but at the end yeah i don't want the white race but at the end of the right well for that
00:50:08.720
reason right i on it for a double reason yeah but at the at the at the you know it's a well-done
00:50:14.720
scene and you know in in it may it it makes sense because it's not just like a random sacrifice like
00:50:21.820
it makes sense in the logic of the film arnie's ultimate you know intervention by the future
00:50:27.740
is to destroy himself and therefore to destroy eugenic aryan man film is actually thought about
00:50:35.180
in those terms because i'm sure that uh you know some of the people listening to this podcast
00:50:39.120
enjoyed the film and there are many like very entertaining things about the film oh yeah
00:50:43.480
certainly and things that are appealing you know to our aesthetic naturally i believe um but i think that
00:50:50.040
um it's a very demoralizing film when you consider it like on a subconscious level it's the film is
00:50:57.980
actually a somewhat sinister film and maybe more sinister because or absolutely more sinister because
00:51:04.380
the way in which it's packaged right you know in particularly the second film i would say but the
00:51:10.600
first film for obvious reasons i mean you have this aryan figure who's demonized who's turned into this
00:51:16.020
cartoon of evil um you know who's a fucking robot i mean jesus christ give us some credit here
00:51:22.260
come on you know throw us a fucking bone hollywood i mean we're killing that just a bunch of robots
00:51:30.480
you know i mean they're killing machines i know it's just like thanks guys i mean i you know it kind of
00:51:40.480
hurts but honestly though so the first film has arians as killing robots that are unthinking unfeeling
00:51:51.500
and you know uh and then the second film has them as robots that like the way they become good is like
00:51:59.520
yeah we we gotta go guys i mean we really are fucking evil we gotta die i mean jesus christ so
00:52:06.560
so to speak yeah i mean no so it's a heavily demoralizing film and this is something that
00:52:13.460
and this is this is why you know in our podcast it will be kind of unpeeling these layers but i mean
00:52:20.920
in i we took an easy one to start i think i mean there are films that are more uh layered and uh and
00:52:28.460
sort of clever and tricky than this film that um we'll explore but um i think that uh that that should
00:52:36.420
be kind of the final takeaway and i you know i and i know that uh people listening to this podcast
00:52:40.700
for example are very eager to uh appreciate the art of a gentile artist uh you know a guy like james
00:52:47.440
cameron who um you know i think he's a flaw he's he's a i think he's a very limited filmmaker to be
00:52:55.500
honest with you but i can see why you know especially as a young man i i thought his films were
00:53:01.120
you know really entertaining we're not trying to ruin these films yeah this the we're not trying
00:53:06.980
the object of this podcast is to try to make you like appreciate what these films are and to have
00:53:13.520
what is unconscious in them to make it conscious conscious uh we're not trying to like ruin
00:53:19.340
entertainment like i don't think that you know if you're aware of what's being done then you're you
00:53:26.160
become like a master you know like i can watch t2 i i think it is a very entertaining film there's
00:53:32.180
there is it's clearly a badass film and it's and it's also kind of like a moment in time as well
00:53:37.200
my childhood so i i'm not like against watching it but at the same time like i'm not asleep while
00:53:44.200
watching it like i understand what's going on and when you understand something you become a master of
00:53:49.700
it and so that's what we're saying um but this is clearly like and this is a maybe we can even like
00:53:57.340
bring this to a head um by by talking about like one more theme that i wanted to to hit on but
00:54:04.180
this is it's not just an anti-eugenic message determined it's really anti-technology and not not in
00:54:14.220
i mean maybe in a somewhat redeemable sense but but but ultimately not it's it's ultimately a
00:54:21.060
luddite film it's ultimately a film for like that that moralizes the weak and the dumb and demoralizes
00:54:30.160
people who want to actually take control of our destiny and take control of the world and so let me
00:54:36.240
let me just back up why is it somewhat redeemable i i get like a lot of the hippie mentality of
00:54:44.100
hey man let's just go back to the way it was like it's it's a it's a kind of conservative
00:54:49.040
instinct of like let's go let's connect with the earth let's eat real food and organic food and like
00:54:55.180
just be you know subsistence farmers and all that kind of stuff i get it i think there is something
00:55:00.520
like highly redeemable about the hippies and about james cameron something like avatar where he's
00:55:05.880
demoralizing modern america and moralizing this like primitive blue people hippie community
00:55:13.980
uh you know i think there is something you could say a little bit redeemable but
00:55:18.860
when you actually take a step back and you're conscious of the logic of the terminator films
00:55:24.860
it is just fucking insane you know i mean like what you're destroying like we're supposed we're
00:55:32.680
rooting on this like crazed woman sarah connor uh you know john carner and their black friend
00:55:39.740
as they like destroy life-saving world-changing technology and you know why are you doing that
00:55:49.340
uh why would you conceivably think it's a good thing uh to destroy this the stuff that we were able to
00:55:58.300
make anyway you know i mean like we invented it's not like this came out of air like we created the
00:56:03.700
machines that created this the these these terminators like why would you want to get rid of this
00:56:08.860
technology as opposed to controlling it understanding it and harnessing it for good
00:56:14.500
it's just such a luddite just like idiotic mentality you know and i i get it that so much of technology
00:56:22.020
is harmful and we're like staring at our start from smartphones too much and but yeah that's all true
00:56:27.920
but you know the alt-right would not exist without the internet and twitter and podcasting and skype and
00:56:37.320
you know i be a voice of our ip whatever you want to say like we need to harness technology and use it
00:56:42.880
for good we need to become conscious of it we don't need to like smash our laptops and like blow up the
00:56:49.500
internet and you know all that that's just that's like a luddite idiocy and but yet that's what the
00:56:57.220
message of the movie is it's like let's blow up this technology let's this technology becomes self
00:57:03.720
aware and then it like achieves white guilt and lowers itself into a lava pit i mean this is if you
00:57:10.860
take a step back from the message of this film it is fucking insane you know like why no we are not
00:57:19.160
going to give up the technological project that would be uh that would be the equivalent of like group
00:57:26.280
suicide you might as well go to like a jamestown cult and you know go drink kool-aid i mean it's just
00:57:31.920
no uh we are gonna we are gonna be we are gonna become conscious of technology recognize its potential
00:57:39.740
for good and its potential for great ill and and harness it according to our willpower and we aren't
00:57:47.840
going to we and we're not going to lower ourselves into a pit of lava yeah you know i would say that it's
00:57:55.720
probably related to sort of the the the christian ethos that pervades the film uh that it's anti-science
00:58:02.940
and i don't you know i don't think that that uh is something that um that cameron was thinking i don't
00:58:10.300
think he was consciously linking those two themes or thinking of christianity as anti-science um but i
00:58:15.780
think that that's the consequence of the whole theme is about this sort of you know the huddled in the
00:58:22.640
weak against uh the strong and and evil and um you know it's sort of a it's kind of a tower of
00:58:30.720
babel motif where anything great you know man seeks to achieve um or become uh god will destroy
00:58:40.280
you know i mean and i think that god you know in this case becomes a proxy um
00:58:46.180
uh you know for the uh uh those faiths uh judaism and christianity um so yeah i think that that's
00:58:56.960
something that's just kind of woven into it um you know the other thing too i would say is that um
00:59:03.800
these luddite themes um at least from the left especially as they concern the environment
00:59:10.640
um uh so the environmentalism of the left i mean i think you know i think environmentalism
00:59:17.640
yeah sure i mean obviously uh i think that we we love and appreciate nature and we absolutely want
00:59:23.940
to preserve it um you know in fact we you know we probably want in the future we probably want
00:59:30.360
smaller populations more manageable populations um and more nature more wilderness you know um
00:59:38.200
but uh you know something that follows a design is you know is is probably the best way to look at
00:59:45.320
it um but i think that a lot of the environmentalism that originates from the left is it it serves a
00:59:54.120
couple of purposes uh one is that it gives them sort of a uh veneer of uh morality right uh because
01:00:03.380
it's you know i mean it and it makes conservatives look stupid when they're attacking environmentalism
01:00:09.840
i mean uh so it plays that role of giving this kind of uh veneer of morality uh the second thing is that
01:00:18.380
it's a kind of uh it's one of these sort of distraction issues um from the more important uh conflict
01:00:27.960
that's occurring which is a which is a largely ethnic conflict i mean anyone who avoids this question
01:00:34.140
is just avoiding you know the important questions that will uh determine uh the future of the world
01:00:41.400
and for either uh better or worse and um so environmentalism becomes this sort of you know easy
01:00:50.440
common um thing that we can all have affection for right uh in the same way that technology
01:00:58.200
for the luddite becomes a common thing that we can all be opposed or even capitalism can be kind of
01:01:04.360
common thing that we all oppose uh because it's not really what we're dealing with those things are not
01:01:10.220
really uh defining the issues that are facing us um so they become distraction issues uh i mean it i guess
01:01:19.420
this is a little bit off topic uh from the film because i don't i don't know no no it's it's not
01:01:23.920
it's not off topic at all i mean this we're just basically musing on on the message of this film
01:01:29.240
uh which is when you're able to make the the logic of the movie conscious conscious and you're able to
01:01:36.660
tease it out i mean we can see how antithetical it is to the way that we want to view the world
01:01:41.340
yeah and there is like avatar is is probably like you know james cameron as he becomes an aging boomer
01:01:51.580
i mean it just becomes sentimental sappy you know vision of a sentimental and sappy vision of
01:02:00.400
of uh you know the third world as these you know mystical um uh down to earth naturally natural
01:02:08.780
conservationist kind of thing it's just it's just it's not a serious uh look at the thing
01:02:14.600
look at the world i mean the fact is like if if nature is going to be going to be conserved it's
01:02:19.640
going to be conserved by us um it's it's actually not going to be conserved by primitive people who
01:02:26.600
fundamentally don't give a shit yeah no that that is absolutely the case i mean one one little
01:02:33.880
remark that because i watched again uh the film again in uh preparation for the podcast uh both
01:02:40.200
films and uh the thing that struck me and i'm sure this will resonate with a lot of the listeners is
01:02:46.480
that um the film you know when i saw it in my relative youth uh in my youth uh i when i saw the film
01:02:57.400
when i was a young guy uh it was a very impactful film all the jokes were just like i am i'm thinking
01:03:05.900
actually specifically of the second film um because i think i was a more sentient film watcher becoming a
01:03:12.740
more sentient film watcher then um but there's a lot of just kind of gags in the film that just
01:03:17.420
they they worked like i i'm thinking of the uh uh you know uh john uh connor trains him to look for
01:03:25.080
the key above the uh in the uh the visor and the sun visor of the car i don't know if you remember
01:03:30.320
that scene and and um you know there's a scene where oh you know one of the scenes uh that really
01:03:38.060
you know watching the film is is a young guy who's just like oh that's kick ass i it was uh the scene
01:03:45.220
where he is he's chasing uh the t2 the t2 who's driving in a um a big mac truck uh you know down through
01:03:54.460
one of these uh um drainage uh gullies they have in uh california and um he's got a shotgun he pulls
01:04:03.520
the shotgun out and he just kind of with a flick of his wrist he's like uh uh you know pumping the
01:04:08.440
shotgun in this very sort of like dispassionate uh mechanical way and firing like rounds at the at
01:04:14.780
his adversary and i remember watching it as a kid just being like oh the thing is it's just
01:04:25.680
out of control like excellent and cool and um you know obviously i'm older now i've seen the film
01:04:33.300
um but and so i wonder though i wonder if there's two things going on so i we're we're a little bit
01:04:42.640
older now and so we're going to be less impressed by those things we're just less responsive to kind
01:04:47.860
of stimuli in general i mean let's face it right i mean i think that that that probably applies to
01:04:52.860
all the senses as you get older you know i mean it's harder to like find a good hamburger that you
01:04:58.240
really like or find a good meal find a good steak you know i mean it's just part of you become more
01:05:03.560
epicurean naturally as you get older so you're kind of less impressed uh by these these uh sort of
01:05:10.680
cheap thrills and um but i think that there's another piece of this and i think that we're it's
01:05:19.360
not just that we're getting older i think that the age that we live in is getting older and i think our
01:05:25.320
society is getting more aged and we're becoming more cynical and harder to impress and uh so i think
01:05:33.340
that you know probably i mean i think that i i know that in the all right in particular there's this
01:05:37.980
kind of 80s nostalgia um so they they may like the film uh you know even younger guys may like the
01:05:44.420
film disproportionately because of that but i would guess probably in general younger guys are just
01:05:49.140
like most of the stuff out there is just garbage like who cares you know i mean they've seen it all
01:05:54.300
before you know we we are jaded the the whole world is jaded and and i think you can see that by
01:06:00.860
the fact that the common vernacular of social media is sarcasm you know it's like you can actually look
01:06:10.260
at someone's twitter profile and basically every tweet is sarcastic so basically this person is saying
01:06:17.820
the opposite of what she appears to be saying and there's just something i i don't know what to say
01:06:26.540
like there there is something kind of disturbing about that fact that yeah you know everything's a joke
01:06:35.980
yeah i mean it's it's one of the signs of decadence um but i you know i think that um
01:06:43.500
i don't you know i think that we um but this is i think also part of the process of becoming
01:06:52.040
sophisticated right and less easily fooled and impressed and duped by uh things that are not
01:06:59.220
necessarily uh you know helpful to us in in a in a kind of deeper way which i would include these
01:07:05.460
two films to be honest with you i mean it's in i'm not discouraging from i think people should watch
01:07:09.920
these films and and then listen to this podcast um because i think that they have to start
01:07:16.380
recognize they start to they have to kind of train their lens uh to see how this propaganda works i
01:07:22.520
mean they and that's what it it's probably you know it's not propaganda in the sense that james
01:07:27.680
cameron's like yeah dude why genocide it's obviously not the case and i don't you know i think the guy is
01:07:35.560
himself largely unconscious you know i mean i don't think he's i mean i think he's a semi-sentient
01:07:40.260
filmmaker and the whole christ metaphor was just kind of the deepest thing he could access
01:07:44.500
right yeah um he was like you know he basically went to kind of the root of the culture and said
01:07:49.960
oh well it should be uh you know i should have christ figures because that's you know whatever
01:07:53.600
uh that's deep and uh and on some level it is deep it is i mean as you know we've teased out it is
01:08:00.200
a very deep message um to evaluate uh but yeah so that's just the one thing that i wanted to remark is
01:08:08.120
that these things and i think that the the fact that our world is becoming you know more tasteless in
01:08:19.740
the sense that it's harder to or we're becoming desensitized right um and that doesn't necessarily
01:08:28.660
have to have all negative consequences in my view i think that we can it will also in some way make us
01:08:36.600
uh i don't want to say terminators but it will make us more it'll make us more dispassionate toward
01:08:46.160
uh things that we really have to fucking do we have to start being honest at the very least we
01:08:52.380
have to start being honest yeah you know the one thing you can appreciate about the terminator
01:08:56.460
is that you know he's not afraid to walk into a fucking hail of gunfire right and uh maybe that's
01:09:04.160
something that we should emulate a little bit and just say hey you know what enough's enough i mean
01:09:09.380
i the ultimate end of all this sarcastic nihilism will be a cold bloodedness and ruthlessness
01:09:17.780
sure and i like i said i mean but that you know i mean i don't think that no one because we're not
01:09:24.960
the cartoon that they depict we're not the bloodthirsty robot that's fucking killing everyone
01:09:29.920
that's you know speak for yourself but what um yeah and uh well that's that's pretty badass um
01:09:40.460
no it's cool i'm now more of a fan i'll be i'll be checking your uh your twitter more frequently now