RadixJournal - Victory Has Destroyed You

00:00:00.000 Hey, y'all. It's been too long. Andrew Joyce, Charles Lyons, two of my favorite people, were back to talk about Theresa May's triumphant victory last night in the UK general elections.

00:00:16.960 Psych. It was a catastrophic victory, as I called it. But Andrew, first off, welcome back. I know you're not feeling too well, so I'm glad you're weathering the storm. But welcome back to the podcast.

00:00:34.120 Thank you very much, Richard. Pleasure to be here.

00:00:35.900 Yeah. Why don't you go first on this matter? Welcome back, Charles, as well. Because you'll probably jump into the conversation before I introduce you. So welcome back, Reactionary Tree.

00:00:49.380 Oh, I'm excited to be here.

00:00:51.280 You really sounded.

00:00:53.020 Yeah, in an election between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May, there are no winners and everyone loses. So I'm very happy to talk about this today.

00:01:04.340 That is true.

00:01:05.900 All right, Andrew, I wanted you to go first because you live in the United Kingdom. And why don't you just give us your take on everything that went down last night and everything leading up to it?

00:01:21.080 Because it was just about a month ago or so that we thought Theresa May was going to and the Tories were going to win in a landslide. And then last night happened.

00:01:33.460 Yeah, I think it's worth casting our minds back to the kind of rationale that Theresa May had in mind whenever she called the snap election, because it seemed like a good idea at the time to her. 0.82

00:01:49.700 And there were, I think, three reasons why she thought it would be a good idea.

00:01:56.040 The first was she wanted a strong mandate to go into the Brexit negotiations.

00:02:01.660 So in her mind, if she could come off of a strong election victory, and she did believe that it would be a strong election victory, then it would strengthen her hand going into the Brexit negotiations.

00:02:13.720 And somehow that would mean that she could make stronger demands from the EU, how realistic that would be in terms of getting to the negotiating table in Brussels and saying,

00:02:26.140 look, just because I've come off a strong election victory, that means you need to give me all these concessions.

00:02:31.680 I don't think it would have worked out quite that way.

00:02:34.300 But that was one aspect of her reasoning.

00:02:37.760 The second, and this has been less discussed, and this is a hunch of my own personally, from looking at Theresa May's career,

00:02:47.100 from looking at the way she presents herself and the way she's involved herself in politics previously,

00:02:54.400 I actually believe that she wanted to win an election in her own right. 0.99

00:03:01.040 Don't forget that she became prime minister not by being elected and leading a party to victory,

00:03:06.300 but because David Cameron stood down following the loss of his position in the Brexit vote.

00:03:13.940 And I think she wanted to prove to herself that she could win an election, which she has done, 0.71

00:03:21.920 but not in the style that she thought she would, and not to the extent that she thought she would win.

00:03:27.540 I think that in her mind, Theresa May perceives herself as this kind of Iron Lady figure,

00:03:33.880 in much the same way that Margaret Thatcher was.

00:03:38.560 And I think she views herself as an heir to Thatcher in several respects.

00:03:42.800 But I think she definitely aspired to that strength of a role.

00:03:48.020 And in order for that to come to fruition, in reality, to the extent that it was in her mind,

00:03:53.180 she needed a dominant electoral victory. 1.00

00:03:56.520 That didn't happen.

00:03:58.440 The reason it didn't happen, I believe, and this is the third aspect, I think,

00:04:02.420 of her decision to go for this snap election, is I think she's deeply hubristic.

00:04:07.300 And I think that in this instance, she genuinely believed that she would crush Corbyn.

00:04:14.000 And I think that there were people within her inner circle,

00:04:17.640 and she's known for having quite a close-knit, secluded, and introverted inner circle of advisors, 0.55

00:04:26.040 that this was a genuine belief.

00:04:29.040 She was doing things like refusing to turn up for televised leadership debates. 1.00

00:04:33.580 And I think that in her mind, this made her look like she was above politics.

00:04:39.980 And there was almost an effort to create a kind of personality cult

00:04:43.320 during this election campaign around Theresa May,

00:04:46.580 as absurd as that might seem, looking at her and listening to her.

00:04:50.620 But there was an effort to create a Theresa May personality cult. 1.00

00:04:55.720 And she refused to participate in leadership debates.

00:04:59.040 And there were a lot of instances whenever she was being interviewed on television

00:05:04.500 where she refused to engage in meaningful dialogue with her interviewer.

00:05:12.020 And I believe that in her head, she thought that made her look strong.

00:05:15.420 To the British public, I think it's slowly becoming a part that made her look aloof,

00:05:20.120 arrogant, hubristic, and that she viewed herself as above the powers of the electorate

00:05:29.860 in the sense that they are the kingmakers. 0.96

00:05:32.560 And I think that they just want to bring her down a peg or two,

00:05:36.220 and that's what's happened.

00:05:38.160 Now, having said that, I don't quite understand the media's shock,

00:05:45.060 because the British media at the minute is convulsing in apparent shock

00:05:49.700 that this resulted in a hung parliament,

00:05:54.180 and that Theresa May did not lead the Conservatives to a position

00:05:59.080 at the end of this election where they could form a government

00:06:02.000 in and of themselves.

00:06:03.860 They've had to form a government by reaching out to the Democratic Unionist Party,

00:06:08.180 which is the largest unionist party in Northern Ireland.

00:06:10.440 So whenever Theresa May goes into government, the opening of the next parliament,

00:06:16.140 she will do so with 10 Northern Irish MPs that will be required to,

00:06:24.260 and she'll have to exercise extreme discipline over those MPs, Tory MPs, 0.98

00:06:29.200 who are in parliament with her in order for her to progress the pieces of legislation

00:06:34.380 that she's proposed and that are a part of her manifesto.

00:06:37.600 So it's going to be a difficult road ahead.

00:06:42.440 But I wasn't surprised that there was a hung parliament,

00:06:45.980 and one of the reasons why I wasn't surprised wasn't just because Theresa May

00:06:49.780 was being hubristic and she was setting herself up for disaster.

00:06:53.840 When you actually looked at the electoral promises of the Tories and Labour,

00:07:00.300 and we were talking about this earlier,

00:07:01.880 they're barely distinguishable on a number of key aspects of policy

00:07:09.360 and the work of government.

00:07:11.980 In particular, I want to just highlight housing, education, and health.

00:07:18.240 I'm going to give you the briefest of summaries of the manifesto pledges

00:07:21.700 of the Conservatives and Labour.

00:07:24.000 In terms of housing, one of the big policy proposals or manifesto pledges of the Tories

00:07:31.420 was that they were going to build one million new homes.

00:07:34.660 Now, what did Labour promise?

00:07:36.800 Labour promised that they would build one million new homes.

00:07:40.540 Both parties also promised that they would improve tenants' rights.

00:07:45.860 In terms of education, the Tories promised they would build new schools

00:07:50.100 and would provide a free breakfast for every elementary school child or primary school child.

00:07:55.460 Labour, on the other hand, said that they would also invest more money in building schools

00:07:59.500 and they would provide, a little bit further,

00:08:03.100 and provide free school meals for all children.

00:08:06.100 So, you know, if you're under the age of 18 and you're in any kind of education,

00:08:10.300 you're going to get a free meal and free breakfast and whatever.

00:08:15.260 So, both of them are kind of going at this with, you know,

00:08:18.000 no such thing as a free lunch.

00:08:19.320 Well, there would be if you vote for us.

00:08:22.080 The only distinguishing factor there was that the Labour Party promised to abolish

00:08:26.680 tuition fees for universities, and that would be effective.

00:08:31.040 I think Corbyn, in the end, promised it would be effective pretty much immediately.

00:08:36.160 So, from September.

00:08:39.140 So, anyone starting a university course from September onwards under a Jeremy Corbyn government

00:08:44.920 would not have to pay any kind of college tuition fees.

00:08:48.880 A big promise, and that was one of the things that I believe mobilized the youth vote in this election.

00:08:54.280 And the youth vote did turn out in style, actually, at this election.

00:08:59.440 Now, just in terms of health, then, the Tories promised to increase NHS spending,

00:09:03.680 National Health Service spending.

00:09:05.380 Labour promised the exact same thing.

00:09:06.880 The only difference in their pledges was that Labour promised, without providing any kind of concrete detail

00:09:12.200 on how this was to be accomplished,

00:09:14.640 that they promised to lift one million people off of hospital waiting lists

00:09:19.220 and promised that they would get care or treatment within 18 weeks.

00:09:23.740 Again, how feasible that is, is almost beyond belief.

00:09:29.600 But this is one of the pledges that were made.

00:09:32.020 And we all know that many, many electoral pledges are never acted upon

00:09:36.420 and certainly aren't followed through with.

00:09:39.660 But you can see there, with these broad similarities and those key aspects of policy,

00:09:45.660 that the distinguishing features just aren't there.

00:09:51.120 The main distinguishing points between the Tories and Labour came with Brexit.

00:09:57.640 And that was just that the Tories were promising that they would still manage to maintain a close relationship with the EU,

00:10:04.480 but they were determined to leave the single market and the customs union.

00:10:07.780 Labour said that they would retain the single market if they could and remain part of the customs union.

00:10:13.640 And their emphasis would be on getting a good deal, and any kind of a deal would do.

00:10:18.880 Whereas Theresa May went into the election saying, no deal is better than a bad deal,

00:10:24.560 and kind of leaving it open-ended in that respect.

00:10:28.640 So you have to ask yourself then, well, how did people decide who to go for?

00:10:34.940 Yes, Brexit was a factor.

00:10:36.660 Well, one of my own personal theories about this election,

00:10:39.120 and I've very recently, and that's in the last few hours,

00:10:43.540 looked at some of the media reporting on the demographics behind the vote.

00:10:48.580 One of my own theories is that we're seeing, definitely in the UK, I think perhaps across Europe,

00:10:55.780 maybe even the United States,

00:10:56.860 but there's a dissolving of economic class as a motivating factor in how we vote.

00:11:06.440 One of the striking things about this election is that some of the most impoverished working class areas

00:11:14.700 where people have quite bad health and low job prospects and low educational attainment,

00:11:23.820 what you might call the classic English working class, voted Conservative in this election.

00:11:31.840 They did not go for labour, as their grandfathers might have done when the mining pits were still open

00:11:38.040 and the factories were still open.

00:11:40.420 We're now post-industrial.

00:11:42.640 And the way that people seem to be voting now, and particularly in this election,

00:11:47.780 is that the working class is not voting necessarily,

00:11:51.660 and I'm referring here to the white working class.

00:11:53.900 The white working class is not necessarily voting in line with whatever economic promises are made to them.

00:12:03.160 They are voting for socially conservative values,

00:12:06.680 what they perceive to be socially conservative promises made by parties like the Conservatives

00:12:11.740 or, in a previous incarnation, UKIP, which of course has now collapsed.

00:12:16.900 But they're voting for socially conservative values.

00:12:20.240 For example, they want stronger policing.

00:12:24.140 They want curbs on immigration.

00:12:26.400 And unfortunately, they're very easily fooled on that matter.

00:12:29.900 All the Conservatives really had to do was mumble that they would try to rein in immigration in some way.

00:12:38.100 And I think that was enough to pull in a lot of white working class voters for them.

00:12:41.720 But on the other side of the coin, you've got lots of educated, middle class, reasonably wealthy cosmopolitans

00:12:53.260 who are voting for the Labour Party,

00:12:57.940 which is this party that was traditionally the party of miners and factory workers.

00:13:02.820 And they're voting for the Labour Party because they see it as more in tune with their identity

00:13:08.520 as a cosmopolitan, urbanite, multicultural identity.

00:13:14.280 So we're seeing identity voting more and more rather than kind of the economic voting styles

00:13:22.100 that were definitely a part of political life, certainly in the UK, in the previous century or more.

00:13:30.540 So we're entering a new age of politics.

00:13:34.220 And there are a lot of lines being blurred.

00:13:36.580 And I think that hung parliaments like this, particularly with Britain's first-past-the-post system,

00:13:41.520 may become more and more common because of the blurring of the lines.

00:13:45.480 I think you're clearly correct.

00:13:48.220 And also, it is interesting that there's this parallel development of that in the United States.

00:13:54.700 I mean, perhaps the United States was out in front in this development.

00:13:59.800 I mean, it's usually called polarization.

00:14:01.820 But effectively, these parties are identity symbols, you could say.

00:14:07.440 So the Republican Party are for, you know, well-to-do white Anglo-Saxons, Protestants.

00:14:16.820 But they're also a party for the working class.

00:14:20.140 I mean, the Trump GOP really, you know, hammered that home.

00:14:24.320 And so the GOP is this effectively implicitly white party or at least implicitly normal white party.

00:14:32.920 And then the Democrats are the party for, you know, hipsters, liberal whites, and then everyone else in this big, you know, roundabout coalition.

00:14:42.220 And, you know, where we are in terms of demographics means that we are at this – we're at loggerheads and we're at a tipping point where, you know, Trump can win as the, you know, normal person's party.

00:14:56.960 He can win with razor-thin margins and win through the Electoral Congress.

00:15:03.380 But once he gets in there, you just have this extreme polarization where the other side thinks he represents an existential threat because he represents the other to him, to them, and vice versa, I would say as well.

00:15:18.340 So, yeah, that's where we're going.

00:15:19.960 And it is interesting that this British election showed a kind of two-party system where the liberal Democrats – and I don't – you know, I'm an outsider.

00:15:30.720 I can't – I don't know exactly why there is this party as opposed to the labor – to the labor left, the liberal Democrats left.

00:15:40.160 But they got – I think they might have gained some seats, but they did not do well.

00:15:45.060 They are a very minor party, and this was a party that was in a coalition with David Cameron just, say, four or five years ago.

00:15:53.220 And they are a minor party.

00:15:54.620 Actually, Nick Clegg lost his seat, which I'm sure is pretty humiliating.

00:16:00.140 And so basically, Britain is going into a two-party system where the Tories are going to represent white people, and that is certainly a lot of well-to-do types, 0.57

00:16:11.400 but also the white working class, and then the labor is going to be this, you know, grab bag of hipsters, immigrants, non-whites, et cetera.

00:16:22.220 I think that in the United Kingdom that it's kind of ripe for some type of political happening.

00:16:34.300 You know, so UKIP is pretty much collapsed.

00:16:38.240 They're gone because mission accomplished.

00:16:41.540 You got Brexit done. 0.99

00:16:43.300 Other than that, most Brits don't really find a lot of the libertarianism that runs rampant in the UKIP to be very appealing to them.

00:16:56.080 And the liberal Democrats, I think they also went under a collapse, and that in part had to do with the rise of UKIP over the past several years.

00:17:07.680 And so now both parties are gone.

00:17:09.820 And you now have the possibility for the ascendancy of some type of new third party that can perhaps be the nationalistic party,

00:17:29.020 but is also much more left-leaning on, say, economic issues that, like, UKIP is not willing to go there.

00:17:40.700 But that could also be appealing to the former liberal Democrat voter and maybe even your more traditional labor voter

00:17:54.460 and someone who could peel off a lot of people who'd probably begrudgingly vote conservative because there are no real other options available to them.

00:18:06.020 Because, I mean, looking at this election from the outside, this is like, like I said at the very beginning, nobody wins.

00:18:16.060 This is like a very, a big snore fest of an election.

00:18:20.000 It wasn't very exciting.

00:18:22.320 It was Theresa May versus Jeremy Corbyn, who's kind of this bizarre.

00:18:26.340 To be honest, Jeremy Corbyn was the more fascinating candidate, but he's like some senile kind of weirdo, old tanky, who –

00:18:37.940 the thing that was most interesting about him was probably his foreign policy views because they're kind of in line with, I guess, what our foreign policy views would be.

00:18:51.820 Probably he's probably – he's not militantly Russophobic, he's, you know, anti-Saudi, he's against Zionist foreign policy in the Middle East, and he supports Bashir al-Assad.

00:19:08.340 And so I think those are all things that pretty much everyone in our movement would be in agreeance with.

00:19:16.160 And – but still, he was a very boring candidate, and he still obviously represents a lot of, like, the multicultural, like, pause that we're all opposed to. 0.95

00:19:31.260 So I think, you know, given what we saw in this election, just like how boring and unexceptional it was, that this is the grounds for something to come in the very near future to capitalize on the political scene in the UK because the UK is in a rough boat.

00:19:55.840 And the people there do want change, and the other thing is it's extremely difficult to express a lot of your opinions, especially if they are in opposition to multiculturalism or immigration, because you're going to lose your job and most likely be jailed.

00:20:13.840 So there's – it's like a tinderbox or a powder keg right now.

00:20:21.440 There's an opportunity for a spark to come and to really blow it all up and make something – make a wild political movement happen in the United Kingdom that the United Kingdom deserves.

00:20:35.300 Because right now it looks like a whole lot of nothing is going on in the UK in mainstream politics, but also in, like, our circles in the UK.

00:20:46.580 There's just not a lot going on there right now when there should be.

00:20:50.740 It should be one of the most exciting political scenes in all the world.

00:20:53.560 One of the reasons why it isn't is because of the electoral system in the United Kingdom, and the first-past-the-post system, as opposed to the proportional representation system, which you see in a lot of European countries, really restricts the growth of any new party.

00:21:15.720 It entrenches and reinforces a two-party system, and we have diverted from that somewhat in recent years.

00:21:23.500 UKIP was an exception.

00:21:25.660 Lib Dems were an exception for a longer period of time, although they now finally seem to be dying a death, and there probably will be no way back for them at all.

00:21:37.400 But it suffocates the prospects of any kind of new party coming through.

00:21:45.780 One of the innovations, one of the promises that Lib Dems had long sort of tabled was that they promised to change the electoral system to proportional representation.

00:21:57.340 But because so much of the rest of their manifesto was awful, I mean, they were promising to make hate crimes an aggravated offense, so like the sentencing times, you know.

00:22:11.880 So if you got two years for kneeling a bit of bacon to a mosque door before, you were going to get four years now. 0.95

00:22:17.360 And, you know, they were making these, on the one hand, they were making these really egalitarian, freedom-loving proposals, like let's change our electoral system to make it more democratic and more easier for smaller parties to flourish.

00:22:31.660 On the other hand, they were promising these really draconian measures for anyone who had an opinion that differed from their left liberalism.

00:22:38.640 So that was never going to take off.

00:22:42.340 And, of course, Labour and the Tories were never going to go for a proportional representation system because Turkeys don't vote for Thanksgiving. 0.99

00:22:52.480 They aren't going to introduce a system which is going to result in them bleeding out votes.

00:22:58.640 I mean, the first-past-the-post system that prevails currently results in a tremendous number of wasted votes where, you know, you might have second and third preferences, and so much of it just gets scrapped.

00:23:13.620 So much of the will of the people gets entirely dismissed because it's just you just kind of cream off the top layer of votes, and that's what pushes your MPs into Parliament.

00:23:23.700 So you end up with these members of Parliament representing constituencies where they have very slim mandates, and they're elites, and they're aloof from the people, and you get circumstances in which a constituency might, on the whole, be, for example, opposed to mass immigration.

00:23:44.940 But you've got this guy who managed to come through in the two-party system with first-past-the-post, and he's on a completely different level.

00:23:52.220 He's coming at the issue of immigration from a completely different ideological standpoint, and there's no way to dislodge him, really, because of the way the system is set up.

00:24:03.780 Well, explain that.

00:24:04.800 Before we go on, explain that to our American listeners that first-past-the-post, because I think most of us are under the impression that it is a proportional parliamentary system.

00:24:15.360 It's been some time since I studied politics in detail, so I'm going to give you the briefest and usable summary of it.

00:24:28.000 But you go into a polling booth, and you have a ballot sitting in front of you, and you can take your candidate of choice and your second preference and your third preference.

00:24:43.440 And the way those get added up is where the difference counts, because in a proportional representation system, the smaller parties will get on the ballot paper, and all of those votes count.

00:25:00.360 So even if they get a certain number of third preference votes or second preference votes, they're all added up, and if they get 3% of the vote nationally, then they will get 3% of seats in parliament, which is democratic.

00:25:18.000 You know, if 3% of the people want to be represented by this party, well, then 3% of the seats in the national parliament should go to that particular party.

00:25:26.900 Under first-past-the-post, the goal is different.

00:25:31.640 The goal is not to have an accurate representation of the will of the people.

00:25:35.960 The goal is to form stable government.

00:25:38.700 That's the idea.

00:25:39.380 You don't want all these coalition governments that you see.

00:25:41.520 You want stable government.

00:25:42.920 So the emphasis is on generating a small number of parties with a greater number of MPs in parliament or representation.

00:25:51.180 So you find that the second and third preference votes don't really count unless there's a draw at the top, between the top two candidates.

00:26:05.680 But really, it's whoever gets the most votes wins, and anything below that second and third preferences for other parties gets dismissed.

00:26:12.860 So it's kind of like a race to the finish line, as opposed to—it's like a race where there's only a gold medal and there's no silver or bronze.

00:26:26.220 Okay.

00:26:26.680 It honestly sounds like the American system, where whoever gets the most votes in a particular congressional district, they win.

00:26:36.920 And it doesn't matter if there's some massive third party or independent insurgents.

00:26:43.280 If they don't win a district or a state, then they don't have any representation in Congress.

00:26:50.300 Yeah.

00:26:51.520 It's disheartening to voters, and it dissuades them from moving away from the big two parties.

00:26:59.160 I mean, we were talking earlier about how UKIP have collapsed.

00:27:01.740 Well, 57 percent of 2015's UKIP voters went Tory, Conservative, in this election.

00:27:11.160 So they don't kind of drift off into other kind of smaller parties.

00:27:15.780 They don't stay with the smaller parties.

00:27:17.880 UKIP was kind of an experiment, and it's burned itself out, and it's fulfilled the purpose that it was created for, really.

00:27:25.580 And it's like, okay, party's over.

00:27:29.000 Let's go home.

00:27:29.520 So, you know, a lot of those voters just went right back to where they came from, which was the Conservative Party.

00:27:35.420 And 18 percent went to Labour, and the rest just kind of either stayed at home or fizzled out.

00:27:44.720 Let me do this.

00:27:46.220 Let me throw a little bit of cold water on what Charles was talking about earlier in the sense of this, you know, Britain is ripe for something new.

00:27:56.440 I agree to a large extent, but I also don't want us to underestimate what we just saw last night in a real collapse of British nationalism.

00:28:11.780 And I also want to jump onto one of my hobby horses, which is my criticism of Euroscepticism, because I think we have seen two things that are very related.

00:28:26.060 And that is first the collapse of the BNP, but also just this problem of making Euroscepticism the center of any kind of right-wing ideology or right-wing populist movement.

00:28:42.460 And I can remember back to June 23rd of last year, and that was Brexit Day.

00:28:51.340 And we forget about it now, but Nigel Farage actually conceded the election on that afternoon.

00:29:02.280 He said, the turnout was great.

00:29:05.500 We're moving forward.

00:29:06.840 More people have expressed Euroscepticism than ever before, but we probably won't win tonight, but that's okay.

00:29:13.000 And there's still videos up of that, and that is a very surreal video at this point, because obviously Brexit did pass.

00:29:20.140 But my, you could say, Freudian reading of that weird press conference was that Nigel Farage secretly didn't want Brexit to win.

00:29:33.060 It was something actually Freud talked about, about being ruined by your success.

00:29:38.640 I think it, you know, obviously overtly he wanted Brexit to pass, but there's probably a little part of him that didn't,

00:29:44.740 because he recognized that UKIP would have blown its wad if Brexit passed.

00:29:49.700 There would be no longer a raison d'etre for the party.

00:29:53.700 And that is exactly what happened.

00:29:56.860 So UKIP achieved its goal, and now it is nothing.

00:30:03.580 And that is, I guess, maybe not a huge problem for us in itself, but it actually is a tremendous problem for us.

00:30:12.080 And I think it has actually been a terrible wound on nationalism in Britain.

00:30:18.360 And obviously we can always recover from something like that, but I don't think we should also underestimate the depth of this wound.

00:30:25.100 And that is that, you know, I have been doing this for a long time, and I have certainly been paying attention, close attention to, you know,

00:30:33.380 Euro nationalism and nationalism in the United States for, you know, most of my adult life, really ever since graduating from college back in 2001.

00:30:42.740 And I can remember getting very excited about the BNP in the mid-2000s.

00:30:51.000 Nick Griffin was not perfect, but he was riding high.

00:30:56.040 He certainly had his talents.

00:30:59.260 The BNP was a legitimate party.

00:31:01.640 It was getting major votes.

00:31:03.160 They had built an infrastructure.

00:31:04.380 They had built a hierarchy, etc.

00:31:07.960 And I remember actually Nick Griffin, I think, even came to an American Renaissance conference maybe back in 2004.

00:31:14.040 He's like, oh, you guys should have a BNP in America, you know, an ANP or something like that.

00:31:19.400 And we were all jealous and so on.

00:31:21.780 Well, oh, hell, the tables have turned.

00:31:26.740 The BNP evaporated.

00:31:28.760 I mean, the BNP might as well not exist at all.

00:31:34.380 It has no representation.

00:31:37.260 And one of the reasons for that was the flaws of Nick Griffin, which are very real.

00:31:43.600 But another reason for that was that nationalism got channeled into this UKIP party, the Civic Nationalist Party,

00:31:52.560 but also a party that was filled with libertarians and neoliberals, people who wanted more globalism.

00:32:01.840 They even explicitly wanted more immigration.

00:32:04.380 Some of them.

00:32:05.760 Nigel Farage wasn't exactly like that.

00:32:08.400 Nigel was, or is, more of a populist and so on, someone who's more attractive to people like us.

00:32:15.040 But the fact is, that was the party.

00:32:17.660 And even if you want to put aside the neoliberalism, the party was totally myopic.

00:32:23.880 I remember I was actually at the, I spoke at the 2012 Traditional Britain group.

00:32:32.220 And I actually gave this kind of rip-roaring anti-American speech in the sense of America's founding principles were wrong.

00:32:41.400 There were some other people who, you know, talked about Evola and the Roman Empire and all this kind of stuff.

00:32:46.720 And we had a, we had someone there from UKIP.

00:32:50.480 And he came up and it was like we were just talking to this just utterly clueless person who had no idea where he was.

00:32:58.680 He was talking about like reducing marginal tax rates on textile industries.

00:33:04.560 I mean, I'm really not joking.

00:33:06.480 He had no connection to these ideas. 0.52

00:33:09.780 He apparently had no connection to even like basic bitch populism. 1.00

00:33:15.360 And so basically nationalism was channeled into this single issue thing where we viewed Brussels and Europe as the problem and everything was going to be fine if we just got out of this big bureaucracy, blah, blah, blah.

00:33:28.120 And what are we left with?

00:33:30.320 Basically, we're left with the UKIP has been ruined by its success.

00:33:34.080 It is almost evaporated.

00:33:36.880 And I could safely predict that UKIP will be nowhere four years from now.

00:33:41.500 It won't even be a party.

00:33:43.900 And all the British nationalist eggs were put into that basket.

00:33:48.080 And so now we're in just this like malaise.

00:33:51.360 And, you know, there's no discernible British nationalist force.

00:33:56.480 I mean, as Charles was saying before we turn the recorder on, I mean, there's, you know, our friend Matthew Tate and there's, you know, the London Forum or there's some certainly some great individuals, Adrian Davis, so on.

00:34:11.680 But there's no discernible institution or force that you can point to and say this is British nationalism.

00:34:19.700 And I'm not saying this is some American chauvinist who wants to piss on our cousins.

00:34:26.640 I'm absolutely not saying that.

00:34:28.840 That is absolutely not my motivation.

00:34:31.240 It's quite the opposite.

00:34:33.400 But, you know, facts are facts.

00:34:35.500 And so I just think this is the – these are the problems.

00:34:39.720 These are the problems of channeling nationalism, A, into civic nationalism, but also into just single issue kind of libertarian stuff and euroskepticism.

00:34:51.660 I just – I don't think it – you know, we've seen what it wrought, and it's never a good idea.

00:34:57.520 And if we're going to, you know, if we're all going to be part of – you know, I can't even set foot on the island, as we know, due to Theresa May, who banned me when she was interior minister, that probably says something about her.

00:35:10.300 But, you know, I won't set foot on the island, but I certainly want to be a part of, in some way, an identitarian movement in Britain.

00:35:19.100 My last name is Spencer, after all.

00:35:21.240 But if that's going to happen, it just – it has to have a proper basis.

00:35:28.620 And I'm sorry.

00:35:30.220 I know that I am one of the more controversial people when I make these pro-Europe utterances and so on.

00:35:37.540 But that basis just can't be anti-Europe.

00:35:41.020 It's got to be something bigger.

00:35:42.640 And I actually think it should be bigger than nationalism.

00:35:44.960 I would propose that we need something that's almost like an international party or, at the very least, an international coalition between parties where we think on a racial basis.

00:36:03.920 We think certainly – I think in identitarian lines.

00:36:07.260 And we think on a civilizational basis as well.

00:36:12.940 And so, you know, again, I do agree.

00:36:15.760 Maybe, like, you know, we could say, oh, you know, your death is also a rebirth or your success is also your ruin.

00:36:22.960 This is how life works.

00:36:24.020 Very true.

00:36:25.240 So I do think there's a void there.

00:36:27.100 But I just – it's very important that that void be filled with something that is animated by our ideas and not petty nationalism, not neoliberalism, you know, not metax cuts, and not Euroskepticism.

00:36:51.320 Yeah.

00:36:53.740 You guys can vehemently disagree if you want.

00:36:56.040 Well, no, I agree with what you're saying.

00:36:58.980 And it's like, I don't know, it's like poking, like, that body, like, you know, do something.

00:37:05.880 You're looking at the U.K. and it's – there's just nothing – you know, after Brexit, now it's like, now what?

00:37:13.620 Now you go back to – you have these lackluster elections over – or you're going to get free lunch or you're going to get free lunch in a pudding, you know?

00:37:24.140 What's the vote going to be about?

00:37:26.040 It seems like there's such major issues still that have not been addressed in the United Kingdom.

00:37:34.600 And it just – to me, it seems like something has to happen.

00:37:39.580 And so, you know, we're talking about how it's like this – it's ultimately a two-party system now.

00:37:44.400 Well, then something has to happen within the conservative party, much like how the Trump movement happened within the Republican Party.

00:37:54.460 You kind of need to have just like a hostile takeover of one of these political vehicles in order to make something happen – to make something happen that matters.

00:38:06.360 You mean you could form your own little, you know, party like a – was it Jack Buckby created the, you know, Liberty GB Party or whatever?

00:38:17.620 No one's voting for that.

00:38:20.340 I mean it's just like that's a symbol, if anything, these little parties that – it's like the Libertarian Party in the United States.

00:38:28.940 Yeah, it's quaint and I'm sure they have great ideas, but they're never going to accomplish anything ever.

00:38:34.440 So something needs to happen in the United Kingdom and I think if, you know, basically you need some type of a strong man figure who's going to carry out a hostile takeover of the conservative party and that's a tall order considering, you know, these labor and conservative parties are like major institutions in the United Kingdom,

00:39:02.800 similar to how the Democrats and Republicans are, are there any based billionaires in the United Kingdom who are going to take over the conservative party?

00:39:13.740 I don't know.

00:39:14.700 But also then it's like the identitarian question in the United Kingdom is we need something, you know, beyond the London former traditional Britain group.

00:39:29.120 I mean all throughout continental Europe, young people are going into the various identitarian movements.

00:39:37.020 In Eastern Europe, it's, you know, it's like light years ahead of us in terms of where the youth are and where the Overton window is.

00:39:45.940 In the United States, Donald Trump won the white millennial vote.

00:39:52.280 Generation Z is supposed to be the most right-wing generation of young people to come up in the United States in a long time.

00:40:00.540 Yeah.

00:40:00.960 And then we look over at Profitius Albion and it's like young people are voting labor and they're like having anxiety attacks because Brexit just passed.

00:40:12.420 Just on that point that Richard raised earlier where he sort of had this idea that perhaps the British could move to a more international white identity or something that sort of reaches beyond British parochialism, something to that effect.

00:40:34.700 That's going to be a stumbling block and it's going to be very difficult to achieve any kind of move in that direction.

00:40:42.400 And the reason is that the British have for a long time developed a habit and have become expert at defining themselves against other whites. 0.94

00:40:58.160 And just as a personal anecdote, I remember my own grandmother before she died, one of the last things actually that she said to me, it was my family's Scottish.

00:41:10.660 And she had said to me, you know, the Scots are nothing like the Irish.

00:41:15.620 This is what she would say.

00:41:16.700 Because in earlier years, I come from a military family, she and my grandfather had been stationed for a while in Northern Ireland, along with many different other countries.

00:41:29.580 But she didn't much like her time there and it stuck with her and she didn't much like the English either.

00:41:37.340 Now, in interacting with Welsh people, and I have some Welsh in me as well, and English, and Scottish and Irish, and also from observing history and reading around the subject, going back to how the English remember the First World War, the Second World War,

00:42:00.760 or even how they relate stories about Napoleon and celebrating Waterloo and Trafalgar, if it comes down to insulting the French or insulting a Pakistani, they'll insult the Frenchman first.

00:42:14.520 Or they'll insult the Germans before they insult the Nigerian. 0.59

00:42:18.560 Or they'll insult their direct neighbor, the Scots. 0.81

00:42:22.400 I mean, the number one so-called hate crime in Scotland is not against non-white ethnic minorities.

00:42:29.220 It's Scots giving English people a battering outside pubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

00:42:35.040 So, you know, the Scots tend to be more anti-English than anything else.

00:42:40.180 The English tend to be more anti-Irish or anti-Scottish than anything else.

00:42:45.640 And it's this kind of, they get, it's like the Brits are consumed and so easily diverted into really parochial types of nationalism.

00:42:56.080 Like, like, extravagantly parochial forms of nationalism.

00:43:01.720 And yes, there are Brits who think along ethnic lines and aren't caught in that trap.

00:43:08.960 But in some ways, UKIP has died the same death that they caused the BNP to die of.

00:43:14.600 And it's that whenever you, the BNP was always sort of ethnically focused.

00:43:21.080 But in the period in which it became really successful, it adopted an almost UKIP-like aura.

00:43:28.340 So it was kind of forced to adopt a constitution where it had to let non-white members in. 0.72

00:43:34.040 And they started parading Sikhs wearing turbans in front of the camera as BNP members and stuff like this.

00:43:40.620 And it was all nice at the time.

00:43:43.520 And it was, you know, it wasn't quite full civic nationalism, but it was drifting in that direction.

00:43:47.720 Well, a lot of the voters then for the BNP that made it successful were of the UKIP type.

00:43:53.480 All those BNP voters were not convinced ethnic nationalists.

00:43:57.500 They weren't deeply rooted in an ethnic sense of identity.

00:44:01.340 They were just civic nationalists who voted for something that looked like civic nationalism.

00:44:05.820 Oh, well, the BNP, you know, have the Sikh guy and he's mouthing platitudes. 1.00

00:44:11.060 And the BNP can't be that bad, although the media are saying nasty things about them.

00:44:14.840 Well, as soon as those civic nationalists were presented with a slightly more media palatable option in the form of UKIP,

00:44:23.720 they abandoned the BNP pretty much overnight and they went to UKIP.

00:44:27.880 Well, once the UKIP's raison d'etre was achieved with Brexit and you had to look at the rest of the party,

00:44:36.160 it succumbed to pretty much the same malaise.

00:44:39.940 It's like, OK, the voters just passed on through.

00:44:43.660 They started off completely as Tories going back in the 80s and early 90s.

00:44:49.520 Then they sort of slowly bled into the BNP and they drifted out of the BNP into UKIP and now they're drifting right back into the Tory party again.

00:44:58.000 It's like they've went in this little sojourn through these smaller parties that offered a slightly more edgy type of nationalism than that offered by conservatism.

00:45:06.580 But it's like I'm looking at the British scene at the moment and I'm thinking, if there's any lesson to be gained here, it's that you set your stall out.

00:45:18.560 You say, this is who we are.

00:45:20.020 We are racial.

00:45:21.400 We are ethnic.

00:45:22.880 We are radical in so many senses.

00:45:28.480 And we are uncompromising. 0.96

00:45:29.840 We will not parade the beast, Sikh, in a turban. 1.00

00:45:34.700 We will not.

00:45:35.640 You know, it's an analogy, but it encompasses so much.

00:45:39.860 There's a lot to be said in that, you know.

00:45:41.600 It's like we aren't going to play the game.

00:45:44.000 This is who we are.

00:45:45.500 And we're not going to, you know, we are a white interest, white identity party.

00:45:50.200 And if you don't like it, go vote for someone else.

00:45:53.320 Go vote in the multicultural society that's going to see your grandchildren hunted down in the streets. 1.00

00:45:58.740 Go for it.

00:45:59.960 But we're standing for something different.

00:46:01.660 We're standing for ethnic survival.

00:46:03.520 We're standing for ethnic success.

00:46:06.480 And you know what?

00:46:07.520 It's going to come down to whether at least give people that option.

00:46:10.740 But there's just so much blurring of the lines.

00:46:13.680 It makes it very easy for our opponents to just keep playing the game that they're playing.

00:46:19.060 Yeah.

00:46:19.740 Right.

00:46:20.100 I mean, because there is a status quo that is maintained.

00:46:23.840 I mean, Trump proves that.

00:46:25.300 You know, the Trump that we've gotten isn't really too different from what we would have had under Ted Cruz or Jeb or even Hillary.

00:46:35.180 I mean, the missile strikes on Syria, his foreign trip outside of the, you know, bullying of European leaders, it was basically what Hillary would have done.

00:46:46.940 And so, yeah, I mean, there is like the current establishment is stable and we shouldn't underestimate that.

00:46:57.120 On the other hand, you could also make the argument that, you know, whatever Trump has been like over the past four months or so, he still is Trump.

00:47:09.100 I mean, he still did achieve this amazing victory that we should never discount.

00:47:14.940 And I agree with that.

00:47:15.960 And that maybe the way of doing this is this top down, you know, bringing putting a wild man in charge and just doing engaging in a top down revolution of the existing structure.

00:47:30.840 Maybe that's more successful.

00:47:32.700 I don't know.

00:47:34.240 Trump got elected because he refused to play by a lot of the rules of the game.

00:47:38.480 True.

00:47:39.480 He was saying things that people could not believe anyone could get elected after saying.

00:47:47.220 And that's a lesson that we need to take to heart.

00:47:51.120 We need to keep, we need to say and keep saying the things that will make jaws drop and people go vote.

00:47:59.560 And people want to learn more.

00:48:02.340 That's, we've learned that lesson.

00:48:04.320 Oh, that's the all right.

00:48:05.860 That's the all right.

00:48:06.820 Because that's the thing.

00:48:07.980 It's like, I don't know how many people that, you know, I'll talk to a journalist or others and they'll stand there, you know, agog, you know, when they're like, is it true that you, I remember our press conference.

00:48:18.800 They're like, is it true that you think all women want to be taken by a strong man?

00:48:23.200 I was like, yep.

00:48:26.700 And then Kevin MacDonald was like, is it true you don't think that Jews are real people?

00:48:31.620 Well, I was like, well, I was like, being that they have tails and cloven hooves, I'm not sure they are homo sapiens.

00:48:39.820 But, yeah, no, I totally agree.

00:48:44.800 It's just, it's to be radically mainstream.

00:48:47.140 And that is the way that we get our message out there.

00:48:49.420 I mean, I've just, just all the pussyfooting has just gained us nothing.

00:48:54.200 And, and also all these guys, I don't know how many people I know who, who get jobs in the conservative movement and then don't really do anything for us.

00:49:03.240 I mean, it's just kind of like, you know, I guess it's great that you're earning a pretty decent salary and all that kind of stuff. 0.93

00:49:11.640 But, you know, you could earn more money doing other shit.

00:49:16.180 And I don't know, I do think that the strategy that has worked has, has been the, the uncucked strategy and the no apologies and the willingness to say things that are, that are to normie ears outlandish. 0.95

00:49:32.000 Um, and I mean, obviously this is like, you know, this is like the Richard Spencer philosophy is, you know, shock the bourgeoisie, but, but I look, obviously I, I, it's my personality for one thing, but also I, it, I think this is clearly what we need to do.

00:49:48.020 We, we don't, there isn't going to be some long march that we, we're going to be able to like 50 years we'll wake up and it's like, oh, look, we slowly transform society back.

00:49:59.620 I mean, it, we are going to be confronted rather dramatically when we attempt to do anything and we're going to be, you know, confronted maybe even violently when we try to do things like this.

00:50:12.120 Um, and we've seen the first taste of that, uh, this past year.

00:50:16.240 So, you know, this is, this is where we are and, uh, we, we need to recognize that.

00:50:22.640 Um, I, I was saying one of the things I was, I was thinking of is that there, there should be a structure in place.

00:50:28.560 And this is why I was talking about like an international party or, or an international coalition that does have like a, that is a body and has a hierarchy.

00:50:36.600 It's a real corporation.

00:50:38.300 Um, but as, as just a, a shadow party, I mean, even if these part, even if these, you know, uh, national parties aren't winning elections, there, there is a structure in place that could take power.

00:50:53.320 Um, when that opportunity presents itself and, you know, again, um, I, I do think that, you know, we're being confronted on a racial basis.

00:51:03.880 We aren't being confronted on a, on a, you know, merely ethnic basis and in that sense of the word ethnic in a sense of like, you know, Welsh or Irish or what have you.

00:51:13.820 And so, um, we, you know, we need to obviously race and ethnic, ethnic are the same word at some level, but we, you know, use them different ways.

00:51:21.220 Um, we, uh, we, we need to, we, we need to think on those terms and think politically in those terms.

00:51:28.700 I just think, I find it kind of exciting.

00:51:30.040 Like I'm not really blackpilled, uh, by anything.

00:51:33.200 And maybe that also is my personality, but I just, I'm kind of like, look, this is, you know, we, we just saw what happened.

00:51:40.860 We, we, we see a definite story that took place and let's move forward and think what is next.

00:51:48.440 Like, how can we be more radical and more daring and not just like reproduce the BNP.

00:51:54.240 We, we had the BNP, we saw it.

00:51:56.640 And, and I'll actually defend Nick Griffin.

00:51:58.920 I don't look, I am not directly involved in any of those things.

00:52:03.140 And so I, I just hear bits and snippets and I, and I certainly have talked with people who are, uh, let's just say not fans of Nick Griffin.

00:52:11.660 And, and I have no doubt that he made a lot of mistakes and he's a flawed guy.

00:52:16.200 Um, but I, I'm not sure.

00:52:18.100 I just want to blame him.

00:52:19.720 Like this was, Oh, it's just all his fault.

00:52:22.180 Oh, if, if only we had a different, you know, person, um, you know, in charge of the BNP, everything would have been different.

00:52:28.860 I'm not sure about that actually.

00:52:31.120 And, and yeah, I mean, as you're saying, I, I, I doubt it.

00:52:34.380 And so I think maybe that model was wrong and that we need a new business model.

00:52:39.860 You know, it's not always like the CEO of a corporation.

00:52:42.100 It's not like, you know, BlackBerry went from like, sorry for the stupid tech analogy, but like BlackBerry went from like ruling the roost. 0.85

00:52:50.380 Oh, it's amazing. 0.94

00:52:51.180 Amazing company to like dissolving overnight. 1.00

00:52:54.460 Was that, was their CEO really stupid? 1.00

00:52:57.280 Was, was he just a dumb guy? 1.00

00:52:58.780 I doubt it. 0.99

00:52:59.280 I bet whoever was in charge is actually quite competent and highly intelligent.

00:53:03.320 But sometimes the model's wrong.

00:53:05.740 And, and I, I, I, that's, that's the way that I see these, these ethno-nationalist parties.

00:53:10.780 It's just kind of like, well, we, we actually did try that and they looked like they were achieving success.

00:53:15.720 I mean, I was a, you know, I was, uh, I wasn't on Twitter back in 2006, but if I were, I would be tweeting out dank, you know, dank, uh, Griffin memes.

00:53:28.420 Uh, so, you know, it's just, we, we are where we are.

00:53:32.180 And it's just incumbent upon us to always rethink things and always come up with new ideas.

00:53:37.140 And, and so anyway, that's, that is my, that is my perspective on this whole thing.

00:53:41.620 I'm not absolutely not black billed, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna also be one of these conservatives that almost think it's a virtue to go down to the ship.

00:53:49.680 It's like, the ship is sinking, but we must stay, we're the captain and let's just stay on board for the, you know, we signed up for this.

00:53:57.720 It's a sunk cost.

00:53:59.200 So let's die with, you know, I mean, no, it's like, you know, like maybe bail the ship out or get in a lifeboat or, or, you know, you know, uh, I don't know what to say.

00:54:11.920 Like there, there is a virtue to being a flexible and, and creative and, uh, and not going down to the ship.

00:54:20.340 Well, if we want to stick with that analogy, I think that one of the ways, one of the only, just to start with the, the Britain can keep its ship afloat or nationalism, British nationalism can keep its ship afloat.

00:54:31.920 Is if it throws Nigel Farage overboard, because he is, he's, as far as I'm concerned, a big obstacle.

00:54:39.840 And you saw the tweet that I put out the other, the other thing yesterday, because he had tweeted something like the conservative party needs a leader that believes in Brexit.

00:54:48.260 And he's, he's, he's, I just have this horrible feeling that he's going to obstruct British nationalism for years because Charles was mentioning earlier about the need for this kind of a strong man character to come in and shake things up.

00:55:01.920 Well, Farage is just one of these kind of like doppelgangers where he's just there and he kind of, he has some of the ambience and he's got some of the charisma, but he's just diverting and occupying space.

00:55:15.060 Like he's just, he's, he's obstructing space when someone else could come in and use that space so much more usefully.

00:55:22.680 I mean, Farage is not the man he sees.

00:55:25.380 He's not that person.

00:55:27.260 No, he, he, he, not in any sense whatsoever.

00:55:30.680 And to my mind, as long as Farage is on the scene of British nationalism, it will never be what it can be.

00:55:39.200 And my, my fear is this guy's going to, he's already said, Oh, I, I'm thinking about coming back to frontline politics.

00:55:45.000 And my heart sank. 0.99

00:55:46.140 I thought, shit, well, that's it. 1.00

00:55:48.420 That's like another decade gone down the toilet. 1.00

00:55:50.860 And he'd come back as a Tory, no doubt.

00:55:53.320 Oh, of course.

00:55:54.420 Yeah.

00:55:54.580 Of course.

00:55:55.240 Yeah. 0.72

00:55:55.440 And suck in so many votes and we just keep playing the same game and he's not going to be radical and he's just going to be a typical Euro skeptic Tory. 0.54

00:56:03.080 I'm very happy to meet someone who's more hostile towards UKIP and Farage than myself. 0.67

00:56:10.640 I'm, I, I like being a moderate that I always liked that position.

00:56:14.720 I am fanatically anti-UKIP.

00:56:18.820 I place a lot of the blame of the death of the BMP on, uh, on UKIP.

00:56:24.560 Yeah, no doubt.

00:56:25.180 I was, I was, I, I was a member of the BMP for a while too.

00:56:28.640 I'm a Jews paying member, a meeting attending member. 0.99

00:56:33.020 And, uh, just as things were looking rosy, Farage sank the whole fucking ship. 0.96

00:56:40.740 Let's, before we go, uh, I'm, I'm curious because again, you're, you're more embedded in this than, than Charles and I are.

00:56:49.020 But, uh, just in terms of like short-term, you know, petty politics, house of cards stuff, uh, do you think that Theresa May will be out after this?

00:57:04.960 No.

00:57:05.280 Interesting.

00:57:06.180 She, she, she's, that, that same arrogance that caused her to call the snap election will cause her to cling on for, for dear life to her position. 1.00

00:57:15.060 She's, she's incredibly arrogant. 1.00

00:57:16.880 She won't, she won't make room for someone else. 0.88

00:57:19.880 I'm convinced of it.

00:57:21.100 She won't stand down.

00:57:22.720 And unless something absolutely catastrophic happens in the next five years, uh, in, during the course of her government, I can't see her relinquishing the reins of power within the Conservative Party at all.

00:57:37.240 Do you think Boris Johnson has a chance of, of, of achieving a coup?

00:57:43.540 No, I don't.

00:57:45.060 Interesting.

00:57:45.500 I think that there are, I think that Boris himself, uh, likes being the clown, but he's, he's like, he reminds me a lot of the Joker in the dark night where he's speaking with Batman and Batman and sort of confronting him on his goals and what he wants.

00:58:00.460 And the Joker says, I'm just a dog chasing a car.

00:58:03.880 If I caught the car, I wouldn't know what to do with it.

00:58:05.940 Yeah.

00:58:06.140 Boris Johnson is the dog chasing the car.

00:58:08.200 He likes the limelight and he likes the excitement of the chase and everything else that comes with that and being a flash character and being the eccentric.

00:58:17.200 But he strikes me as someone who, if you placed a great amount of responsibility onto his shoulders, he would collapse at the house of cards.

00:58:27.620 I am not a fan of Boris Johnson.

00:58:30.240 Uh, I, uh, yes.

00:58:32.800 The, uh, we should remember also this, this Brexiteer, uh, it was like four years before I was making videos, uh, in favor of Turkey entering the European Union.

00:58:43.740 So he was actually pro EU and pro Turkey entrance because he's part, because he's part Turk.

00:58:48.960 Yeah, I know. 0.95

00:58:50.820 And, um, yeah, he just, he, he strikes me as, as a dilettante buffoon and, and, uh, yeah. 0.94

00:58:58.100 What is it? 0.95

00:58:58.520 Never trust a teetotaler or a Turk. 1.00

00:59:00.700 Yeah.

00:59:02.660 Good advice.

00:59:03.460 Donald Trump's a teetotaler.

00:59:07.560 You're right.

00:59:09.000 That's right. 0.99

00:59:09.640 Any, any, any so-called British conservative or nationalist who advocates admitting Turkey to the European Union is a liar or he's completely insane. 0.93

00:59:23.900 He made anti-racist arguments. 0.80

00:59:25.680 He's like, how could we not do this?

00:59:27.300 Uh, you know, he, he made an argument that is actually true from our perspective, from our perspective, has very different resonances to say the least, where he said, you know, Turkey has all this, these great European traditions.

00:59:39.620 It was once the Eastern half of the Roman empire.

00:59:42.520 And it's like, yeah, that's why we should take it back, you know, kick the Turks out. 1.00

00:59:49.600 Uh, but, but he's like, you know, how could we prevent, uh, Turkey from entering the EU?

00:59:55.060 What are we a racist?

00:59:57.280 And, um, so that just that kind of stuff.

00:59:59.560 I mean, again, it's, it's not, that's not unusual at all, but it, you don't have to say it.

01:00:06.500 You know, if you're one of these typical cucked conservatives and he did. 0.71

01:00:10.780 So, um, yeah, I think that guy is a total bad news.

01:00:15.460 Um, but, uh, but interesting.

01:00:18.960 So another, uh, another say half decade of staring at Theresa May. 1.00

01:00:25.000 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's one of these weird symptoms of modern political culture that the most stern and unwavering characters within the conservative party are women. 1.00

01:00:37.080 Um, because you've got Theresa May and then below, who was a tyrant in the home office. 1.00

01:00:40.800 And then in her position, you've got, uh, Amber Rudd, who is, uh, or was, um, who's just as intransigent and bullish and faux or pseudo masculine in how she behaves and the kind of policies that she proposes. 1.00

01:00:59.940 Horrible woman. 1.00

01:01:01.400 Repulsive. 0.97

01:01:01.920 Well, should we put a bookmark in it or, or anything else?

01:01:13.920 Let's not finish with me just calling Amber Rudd repulsive.

01:01:17.100 Let's, uh, we can, we can come up with something better than that.

01:01:22.040 Charles, it's up to you to save.

01:01:25.700 Save the podcast.

01:01:26.740 Well, you know, in, we can celebrate the fact that, uh, in the 2017 UK election, uh, the most amount of women MEPs have been selected more than ever before. 0.95

01:01:42.080 So this is the March of Progress and it's female, you sexist bigots. 1.00

01:01:48.200 That is just wonderful. 0.96

01:01:50.700 Yeah.

01:01:51.180 Let's celebrate. 0.97

01:01:51.960 Who's that weird black autistic woman. 1.00

01:01:54.480 Who's like a labor. 0.99

01:01:57.440 Diane Abbott.

01:01:58.720 Diane Abbott.

01:02:00.500 Corbin's former love interest.

01:02:02.860 That is a really.

01:02:04.940 Yeah.

01:02:06.080 I mean, that's, that is really revolting.

01:02:09.200 Like that just to imagine that.

01:02:12.420 I mean, good God.

01:02:15.880 Oh my God.

01:02:17.140 Uh, yeah, we should not even publish this podcast because we might like lower birth rates just by bringing that up.

01:02:24.340 Uh, good God, man.

01:02:27.000 Who could conceivably do that?

01:02:28.920 But anyway, um, yeah.

01:02:31.360 That works as dog print those strange things.

01:02:33.840 It's true.

01:02:34.860 Maybe we should praise him for like, you know, being a true leftist, like going all the way.

01:02:40.100 He's no, you know, he's no suburban Bernie supporter who, you know, lives with their little white family out in the suburbs.

01:02:46.920 But, you know, reads that has a subscription to the nation or whatever.

01:02:49.760 He's like, he goes all the way.

01:02:52.800 Oh God.

01:02:54.060 Uh, another interesting thing, real quick tidbit before we go.

01:02:57.320 Uh, Scottish national party lost big, including, um, I believe his name's Sam, uh, Salmon, uh, Salmon.

01:03:05.000 Salmon.

01:03:05.600 Salmon.

01:03:06.140 He, Alex Salmon, he, Salmon, he lost his seat.

01:03:09.460 So I would say that Scottish independence is probably dead for a generation.

01:03:17.140 It is.

01:03:17.960 The Scots are, are interesting.

01:03:19.780 You know, I've spoken a lot with my dad about it.

01:03:21.640 Who's really, really is a Scottish nationalist.

01:03:24.880 He believes in Scotland.

01:03:25.820 He believes it should be independent.

01:03:27.640 Uh, and when I interrogate him on that, he would often say that, you know, I believe in an independent Scotland.

01:03:33.320 I believe in, uh, Scottish identity, but I do not believe that the Scottish national party.

01:03:39.460 Is, is the party to get us there.

01:03:41.320 He always hated Alex Salmon.

01:03:43.960 And I think the, it's the leftist taint.

01:03:48.460 I mean, it's a, it's just kind of a fake nationalism.

01:03:50.760 It's absolutely.

01:03:51.720 Let's, let's have an independent Scotland so that we can make it multicultural like every other part of the world.

01:03:55.880 Let's be so distinctively Scottish that we swamp ourselves with the entire world and just become another globalist state.

01:04:03.880 It, you know, it's one of these oxymoron.

01:04:05.540 Ireland is going through the same thing where it's like they, they, they, they fought for such a long time for independence from Britain.

01:04:11.060 And we are the Irish and Irish Irish for the Irish people, Ireland for the Irish people, you know, get the British out. 1.00

01:04:18.360 And what have they done with it?

01:04:19.540 You know, they've just, it's just become just another globalist state, globalist project, um, that is becoming rapidly multicultural to the point where it might be one of the first states in Europe to, uh, for its native population to, to go into a minority status.

01:04:38.380 I mean, it's, it's, it's ridiculous.

01:04:40.320 And this is the, we're coming right back to this issue of petty nationalism. 0.95

01:04:44.980 You can become so absorbed in defining yourself against other whites that you just cannot see, or it becomes very difficult to see the dangers around you from, uh, those who aren't the objects of your pet hates. 0.89

01:05:02.700 Yeah.

01:05:05.080 Yeah.

01:05:05.640 I, I think there's also, I was, I was talking with Hannibal Bateman about this.

01:05:10.500 We were, um, uh, I, I think, uh, drinking, uh, red wine and listening to Morrissey and, uh, we were, uh, musing on, you know, different petty nationalisms, but we were listening to Morrissey's great.

01:05:23.840 I mean, I, I like Morrissey's whole work, but, uh, I, I definitely, the National Front Disco is a really great song.

01:05:30.560 Um, and, um, it's, you know, English for the English and there is something where, you know, not all petty nationalisms are equal.

01:05:39.400 In fact, um, that there's something, there's something about being an underdog petty nationalist, being a Irish nationalist or a Scottish nationalist or, or something like that, where it does have this tendency towards leftism because it, it, it, it's always coming from that underdog mentality.

01:05:59.660 You know, it's like, oh, the, the cruel English tyrants who ruled us or, you know, potato famine or something like that.

01:06:06.080 Um, but being a, uh, being an English nationalist is different and much like being a German nationalist, um, being a true English nationalist, you know, means a desire to rule.

01:06:20.260 Um, and, uh, I, I, I think that's what our nationalism has to be.

01:06:26.260 It, it can't just be this like endless brothers wars or endless victimhood.

01:06:31.680 It, it needs to be a, um, we, we want to rule for us.

01:06:38.040 And, um, yeah, and I, I, I, I, that, that is the future, hopefully, or we're done for.

01:06:44.740 And just on that note, the period in which all these petty nationalisms within the United Kingdom dissolved and disappeared was the, the period of empire.

01:06:56.660 Yeah.

01:06:57.060 So the, the, the pact that was made was let's rule together.

01:07:00.080 So they did Britain, you know, was, was forged to rule together.

01:07:05.560 So Scots and English and Irish and Welsh went to Africa and went to South America and went, went to different parts of the world together to rule and to, to, to take land.

01:07:18.520 And that, all those petty nationalisms that were, uh, put to bed really in the exception of Ireland in the 18th, 19th centuries, all bubbled up again in the 20th century because empire collapsed, self-pitying, uh, populations in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales came to the fore and started reaching out to other self-pitying narratives and ideologies and by the healthy dose of, of Marxism.

01:07:48.520 And, and, and, and catastrophic.

01:07:53.200 Very, this could be a whole other podcast of that interesting dialectic between nationalism and empire, because it's the, you could look at a different, a similar experience with Russia, where you have a country that's basically born as an empire.

01:08:08.960 Uh, German nationalism is intrinsically, it's a, it got a Prussianism, but it's a, it's an imperial sense.

01:08:17.960 Um, yeah.

01:08:19.720 So there, there is a, there is actually a fascinating dialectic, um, between that, that idea of a, of a peoplehood and that ultimately that ideal idea of ruling.

01:08:30.700 Um, and then there's this kind of also interesting dialectic between petty nationalism, which on its surface is ethnic and racist, you could say like, you know, Ireland for the Irish, but which has this strange relationship with multiculturalism, mass immigration, Marxism, et cetera.

01:08:51.580 But I think that's a podcast for another time.

01:08:54.200 So, uh, gentlemen, uh, this was excellent and, uh, we need to do more of these.

01:09:01.180 So, uh, I will, uh, talk to both of you soon.

01:09:04.480 Thanks.

01:09:05.280 Thank you.

01:09:06.080 Bye Charles.

01:09:07.580 Bye.

01:09:13.580 Bye.

01:09:14.580 Bye.

01:09:15.580 Bye.

01:09:16.580 Bye.

01:09:17.580 Bye.

01:09:18.580 Bye.

01:09:19.580 Bye.

RadixJournal - June 10, 2017

Victory Has Destroyed You

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