The McSpencer Group discusses the ins and outs of cancel culture, J.K. Rowling's "Open Letter" against the cancelers, and the role of conservative intellectuals in the anti-cancel movement.
00:01:57.280Rowling has basically put forth the wild and outlandish extreme right notion that biological sexes do, in fact, exist.
00:02:07.500But that doesn't mean that she wants to undermine all of her trans friends.
00:02:13.400And for that, she's been called a TERF and other epithets.
00:02:18.640And I don't know if they'll be able to really cancel her.
00:02:22.780She's a multimillionaire at this point and wildly popular with young people.
00:02:28.560But just the fact that there is pushback against someone like Rowling is remarkable and kind of demonstrates the lengths that they will go.
00:02:39.780They will even destroy their favorite childhood stupid fairy tales.
00:02:44.080But she put out something in Harper's this week that was co-signed by a number of liberal and neoconservative intellectuals, some journalists, some academics.
00:02:58.520And so there is pushback against this in some way.
00:03:04.120But I think the main thing about it is that I think the boomer liberals and neocons are going to lose this battle because all of the energy is on the other side.
00:03:19.840So anyway, before we start kind of diving into cancel cultures, again, you know, every conservative show will complain about this phenomenon.
00:03:30.460I think it's more important to kind of get beneath the surface.
00:03:36.460But but Tyler, do you have any kind of opening remarks on canceling?
00:03:44.760Yeah, I mean, I saw the letter, you know, some of the figures in there, of course, were remarkably consistent.
00:03:49.980So you have people like Noam Chomsky in there, who's always been on the side of speech against canceling no matter the cost.
00:03:57.180And so to me, there is a consistency in a lot of people that signed it.
00:04:00.600But then you also have others who are obviously very culpable when it comes to cancel culture anyways, at least in their actions in the past and how they've supported it on other people when they go against them.
00:04:11.760So my initial my initial thought upon reading and discovering this whole controversy was really the fact that it seems to me to be more of an inter elite conflict rather than anything to actually do with the phenomenon we see right now, where average working people are being, you know, canceled in a far worse way than the word canceled encapsulates.
00:04:32.260You know, they're having mobs on Twitter, go after their jobs and every facet of their livelihood over something they might have said six or seven years ago, even.
00:04:43.400And so you have this inter elite conflict between these various figures who themselves are largely formative in cancel culture in the first place.
00:04:51.840And then the whole actual, you know, what we experience is cancel culture, which is affecting the lives of everyday people is completely lost in that dialogue.
00:05:15.680They're realizing when you're in a cultural revolution like we are in, that it's an example we looked at on the show with Keith was Munster and the Anabaptists and all this kind of thing.
00:05:51.260Well, one way is to try and calm it down, which is exactly what the Lutherans did.
00:05:55.120They realized, Martin Luther and whatever, realized it was becoming absolutely insane and it could even sweep over him and whatever.
00:06:01.540And so, therefore, there was this magisterial reformation, which was this kickback against the radical reformation of these nutters of the Anabaptists.
00:06:12.140It's quite a difficult decision for them.
00:06:13.620Do I shut up and hope they don't come for me?
00:06:16.140Or am I so convinced they may well come for me that I will use the last effort and energy and power that I have to try and calm this down, reverse this insanity, which I have helped to set off.
00:08:20.560Having a ginger boy and calling him Weasley like a weasel.
00:08:25.820Is this is this is and is this really you could try to argue you could try and insinuate this relates to racism, perhaps, and her views on race.
00:08:32.640Oh, and look, she doesn't have any non-white characters among the main characters in Harry Potter.
00:08:36.560To the already gays to the extent that she had to retrogressively declare that one of her characters was gay.
00:08:41.880She did, even though it's not clearly in the in the book, as I understand.
00:08:45.180I've read I've only read one of the books.
00:08:47.380And and and then you've got this fetishization of the public school system of the English public school system.
00:08:53.800I mean, these kinds of places are which which this is based around.
00:08:56.680What is this other than a fetishization of power and tradition and of all the things which these people are trying to tear down?
00:09:03.980And so if you wanted to, if you really wanted to, you could you could go for her.
00:09:09.380Go for the jugular with regard to those books.
00:09:11.460Yeah, I mean, she pushed back in she did push back kind of philosophically against transsexuals in the sense of saying that gender is biologically based at some level, but that shouldn't actually change our opinions of transsexual rights and so on.
00:09:57.940And this kind of the the insinuation and the wording, I don't have it in front of me, but I recall it was something like this cancel culture is creating will create a backlash, which will be bad for all these lovely left wing things.
00:10:22.680Then bad, bad people will be empowered by this because people they didn't directly say it, but because people will be so upset by basically, if you create chaos, then you make people want a right wing government.
00:10:33.240And that's kind of what they what they said.
00:10:35.320And then they and then they went in the importance of they ceded everything to these nasty bullies immediately and then kind of begged them to.
00:10:45.320Oh, so so look, we've frustrated ourselves before you, but we do think this is going a bit far and it really shouldn't go so far as to affect us.
00:10:52.880Well, this is it is institutionally revolutionary.
00:10:56.820And we are the ones who are better at kind of managing new people in the sense that, you know, the Steven Pinkers or David Frums or J.K. Rowling's of the world are kind of the better ones who are highly placed in institutions who will kind of throw various bones to Black Lives Matter or, you know, non white identity politics, etc.
00:11:18.780And they're actually kind of seeing that these things are becoming so powerful that they're they're actually creating an institutional instability.
00:11:27.260I don't think they would have done this five years ago when they felt like they had these things out of control.
00:11:32.080But they recognize that it actually is getting out of control and they feel like they have to push back in some light way.
00:11:39.720But yeah, I mean, from my perspective, you know, let the bad times roll for these people.
00:12:29.600He's the person that with regard to my my perfectly reasonable and cautious defense of Kevin McDonald's paper, said in public that should never have been published.
00:12:40.420He couldn't believe it had been published.
00:12:52.280They go for him in terms of this of this survey, this petition against him.
00:12:55.760And they go for him in terms of this this council culture he's scared of with the letter.
00:12:59.340And of course, it strikes me he might have other problems which will come to life and all.
00:13:03.080But, you know, it's it's it's it's utter cowardice.
00:13:07.920And then one of them, of course, we drew her name from it.
00:13:10.780She said, oh, I wouldn't have or he or this transsexual person on it said I wouldn't have signed it if I'd known J.K. Rowling would sign it.
00:13:35.180And then there's a backlash among the fans.
00:13:37.640And then they were, you know, like, you're not a real fan if you don't accept that Dumbledore is gay because she said that you're just as transphobic, you're homophobic or whatever.
00:13:45.840And then so she helped create insulate this mass council culture from the mob mentality.
00:13:50.620Now, though, it's getting out of hand because these other elites like Daniel Radcliffe, for example, who's like he responded to her tweets.
00:13:57.460And, you know, he's like, you know, Rowling may be famous.
00:14:00.740She may be a part of the elite, but I can't endorse this.
00:14:03.380And I have to speak out against her in this.
00:14:05.340And it's just this way in which is inter-elite warfare is coming up and they recognize the tide is coming for them.
00:14:11.120And so they're trying to be the ones who could sit on top of it and attack the other ones.
00:14:15.120And so then you have even people on the letter, a few of them, like Ed was mentioning the one who was like, oh, I wouldn't have signed it if Rowling was on there.
00:14:21.900But there was others saying I've reconsidered it after the pressure.
00:14:31.320And, of course, anyone knows when you're actually a victim of cancel culture, you're it's not holding you accountable for your speech.
00:14:37.800It's preventing you from your livelihood.
00:14:39.420The only people where it's holding them accountable for their speech are people like J.K. Rowling, who are multimillionaires, who have no possible real back, like consequence to their livelihood from being canceled.
00:15:29.940And it's, in a way, far less detrimental from the canceling from payment processors, which is something that has gone on for quite some time.
00:15:38.340And that is where it, you know, the rubber hits the road and it really affects your pocketbook.
00:15:43.820But there was another interesting thing.
00:15:46.000And there was this case of this young person named Blake Neff, who is someone that I had heard about.
00:15:57.380He wrote for the Daily Caller that I understand.
00:16:02.000I had heard about him a few years ago as, you know, one of these various hour guys working in the conservative movement.
00:16:10.980And then he became apparently the chief writer for Tucker Carlson's program, Tucker Carlson Tonight.
00:16:19.900And he bragged to, and I think probably accurately bragged to his college newspaper, that, you know, anytime Tucker says something on television, I wrote the first draft.
00:16:36.040I'm sure he has these writers doing these work, these scripts that he looks over and approves.
00:16:42.200But I have no doubt that he has people like Blake Neff writing them.
00:16:46.720And CNN went after, I'm forgetting what the journalist's name is, Darby or Darcy.
00:16:56.240Anyway, I've heard of him for a number of years now, but they went after him and they found this web forum that I had never heard of, but is supposedly a hotbed of red-pilled dialogue of some sort.
00:17:10.300And they found all of these comments by Blake Neff that were kind of, I don't know, maybe something you could hear on this show, certainly things that I've heard a million times on Twitter or in private company that were kind of red-pilled talk about race and women and crime and all that kind of stuff.
00:17:34.640But said in, you know, rather, you know, humorous, juvenile, kind of tongue-in-cheek manner.
00:17:43.360So, I mean, was I offended by anything that he wrote?
00:17:53.620And I think we should have a right to some kind of space where we can crack a joke and not feel like this is going to be secretly recorded and broadcast on the internet.
00:18:06.640Or we can, you know, express ourselves in some way.
00:18:10.340I think carving out that private space.
00:18:12.480So basically, I don't have any problem with what he said whatsoever.
00:18:17.980But, you know, again, it gets to this point with Tucker.
00:18:23.660And apparently, according to some of these reports that I read, Tucker will address this subject on Monday's show.
00:19:15.940So they did not say, you know, well, we hope he gets his life together and he's going to take a break or something like that.
00:19:24.200They condemned him, which is a slightly, a little bit different than that.
00:19:30.560They also sent a message to these dozens of alt-right or alt-right friendly people who work in the conservative movement and write for the Daily Caller or write for Tucker Carlson.
00:19:46.240And basically, the message was loud and clear.
00:20:36.920No, I was going to say, the worst thing about it is that it's such a basic thing that if you give in to bullies, then bullies don't just go, okay, yeah, I'll bully about that.
00:21:01.620And so if you give in, if you give ground, then that's why I think it's one of the reasons why things always push leftwards, because the right always gives that ground.
00:21:10.880Because once the left are the people who dictate what is respectable, who dictate what is polite society, who've got to a point where what is polite society, what is acceptable in public is what they say it is.
00:21:23.560But in order not to have the sort of stigma of being a dissident surrounding you, which I think the people like Fox don't really want.
00:21:32.880They don't want to be seen as dodgy, extreme.
00:21:35.540Therefore, they will always placate them and they will always give in in situations like this.
00:21:53.240Are the bullies really the left or the conservatives themselves?
00:21:57.440I mean, conservatives engaged in this kind of behavior long before cancel culture began.
00:22:03.640And I think they are actually more culpable in terms of the suppression of free speech and dialogue and, you know, alternative ideas than the leftist.
00:22:18.200And I mean, I think it's kind of a convenient narrative for them to tell themselves that, like, there are all these bullies out there, these journalists who are doing this to us when it's they who are doing it.
00:22:28.020And they've been doing it for decades.
00:22:29.380But they're doing it because they're doing it because they're giving in to that pressure.
00:22:33.580They're doing it because they're weak.
00:22:49.860And they're not weak when it comes to other issues.
00:22:52.500In terms of other issues that are actually important to them and important to their ideology, they will defend people to the death.
00:23:03.160No one got canceled because, you know, Ben Shapiro quite literally called for displacement, ethnic cleansing, you could say, of Palestinians.
00:23:13.580And every conservative would lay down the gauntlet for him.
00:23:18.980But they won't lift a finger when someone posts some edgy content on some web forum that no one saw outside of, you know, a bunch of kids in their basements.
00:23:36.720I feel like it's letting conservatives off the hook to say that they're weak.
00:23:40.040I think they're sinister and they're deeply engaged in this.
00:23:44.100Yeah, I mean, when you take a look back, I mean, the left critique of the conservative emphasis on free speech is not entirely wrong, really.
00:23:52.220I mean, they're kind of trying to set the tone for who has the hegemony to actually, you know, determine which ideas are going to disseminate and they're going to gatekeep those ideas.
00:24:01.120You had the same dynamic all the way going back to the neocons versus the paleocons and who won out on that.
00:24:07.280You look at the free speech movement in the 60s.
00:24:11.440Of course, there's always a cynicism in that because now that they have, you know, they've moved the Overton window, they're the ones enforcing these very same rules.
00:24:19.820And that's the way these things always play out.
00:24:21.540It's really about who can actually set the tone for dialogue and who is going to be gatekeeping access to other kinds of speech that aren't allowed.
00:24:29.460And it's the same thing now with Fox News in this regard is because what is the purpose of like Tucker Carlson show?
00:24:35.780If you look at what he's saying and what Blake Neff is saying in these comment forms, they're not really that different from Tucker Carlson's own ideas.
00:24:42.320They're just stated in a very, a more like rugged or more honest way.
00:24:48.080And so it's what it seems to me is it's more of an effort of gatekeeping, which is the same thing we see with maybe Tucker Carlson's show in general, which, you know, I do like some points that he makes on that show.
00:25:00.700But it's the same phenomenon that conservatives have always engaged in, is setting the parameters for around what actually constitutes free speech.
00:25:08.440And then so once you get to topics of like Israel or AIPAC or things like that, and next thing you know, poof, these free speech advocates, they just completely disappear.
00:25:16.420And they're very much part of behaving like pride bullies, you know, someone might call them.
00:25:22.000And so it's interesting because they're very much a part of forming that culture.
00:25:25.120And they've been like that all throughout the conservative history.
00:25:27.920And to me, so battles over free speech isn't really about free speech.
00:25:31.460It's about who gets to set the parameters for what is socially unacceptable.
00:25:49.740I suppose you could argue that one of the problems with conservatism in the sense of mainstream conservatism is that they are kind of almost by their very nature against things.
00:25:59.380So radical conservatism, anything that rocks the boat seriously, anything that seriously questions the status quo, even though the status quo is being pushed in a constantly left wing direction.
00:26:09.540If they push back against that in a moderate way, then that's fine.
00:26:14.460But they push back against it in a pronounced and clear and divisive and charismatic way, like Enoch Powell, let's say, in Britain in 1968.
00:26:24.320Then that's too much because that's that's that's that's incendiary and they don't like that.
00:26:31.060That's that's too much rocking the boat.
00:26:44.580They don't like anything incendiary or which which the cause is like a lack of control, which they don't like sincerity and and and seriousness.
00:26:53.580I think I have not heard very many denunciations of, say, QAnon from conservatives.
00:27:02.840And I'm sure you could find some here and there.
00:27:06.560But generally speaking, QAnon is going with the flow.
00:27:11.460It might be totally wacky and fraudulent and risible, but it is going with their general flow.
00:27:19.320And they're not going to denounce it at all, despite the fact that it actually is a huge phenomenon of wild conspiracy theorizing going on the right.
00:27:31.180But it ultimately supports the GOP and it supports their foreign policy and business agenda.
00:27:37.000And they're not going to go against it.
00:27:38.760I mean, you can go back to the early stages of the purges with William F. Buckley and see this very similar dynamic.
00:27:47.040So the John Birch Society was much, much larger than it is now.
00:27:52.720I think the John Birch Society is still around and they still publish some pieces, but they're way out of the mainstream.
00:27:59.260And I can't even remember the last time someone I saw an article by them, but they are still publishing.
00:28:04.200They were an extremely powerful organization that was attracting actually a lot of good people, kind of civic leaders, businessmen, kind of middle American types, but people who had money and influence of some kind.
00:28:21.720Certainly they weren't attracting the East Coast elite, but they were attracting people who were actually powerful in their way.
00:28:29.260They were purged because Robert Welch was in opposition to the Vietnam War.
00:28:40.940They were not purged for engaging in wild conspiracy theories, such as Dwight Eisenhower was a secret communist agent, which quite literally Robert Welch kind of suggested in his book, The Politician.
00:28:55.560They could be wacky so long as they were going with the flow.
00:29:02.380Robert Welch and the Birchers supported the Goldwater campaign before Buckley and them did.
00:29:08.500They might have even given them the idea.
00:29:10.880But Buckley and the conservatives purged them when they went against the real power agenda of the state.
00:29:20.840And at that point, they brought out all this conspiracy theory stuff.
00:29:24.720And then later on, they started to claim that they were racist and anti-Semitic, which the Birch Society actually was, in fact, not.
00:29:32.460And they just kind of tell this story about how Buckley cleaned up the right and saved the right from anti-Semitism or something, when he didn't do that in the slightest.
00:29:42.380He actually had anti-Semitic friends, Revelo Oliver being a major one.
00:29:49.960But it was basically when the Birchers opposed the power agenda that he decided to engage in a kind of destruction of them, which was successful.
00:30:01.400And so, again, you can be wacky, you can be out of bounds, you can say all sorts of nonsense, and conservatives will more or less defend you so long as you are going along with their agenda.
00:30:15.860If you say something that is sincere and sincerely divisive in the sense of, you know, I mean this, and there are implications to the words that I'm saying.
00:30:28.580This isn't just me mouthing off on Facebook about my ex-girlfriend.
00:30:32.920No, this is actually a sincerely held belief that has implications, and that means that we have to change our lives.
00:30:40.020The connecting thread here is lack of sincerity.
00:30:42.240What I always found interesting about the right wing in America is this connection it's always had with allowing a proliferation of conspiracy theories.
00:30:50.100You could say things like Obama is secretly a reptile, right?
00:30:56.860And it's always been bound up, partly from the history with Cold War paranoia, then partly just that legacy carrying on forward.
00:31:03.720And then so you have this allowance for as any wackier conspiracy theory that you can possibly have.
00:31:09.640And then conservatives like to present themselves as like dangerous truth tellers, right?
00:31:13.760We've uncovered the real conspiracy or we're going to stick it to the PC crowds when we do our university tour and Crowder is going to tell the real dangerous truth that nobody wants to hear.
00:31:22.760But, of course, we know the moment that you actually say something sincere about, you know, maybe, you know, AIPAC has a role in our international affairs, right?
00:31:34.180Then it's like, OK, well, you can't say that. We've got to shut you down.
00:31:37.280And like I was saying earlier, then all of a sudden they, poof, they disappear.
00:31:40.560And it's interesting to me how these leftovers of these conspiratorial thinking that's so allowed because it services the interests of the elites and distracting you from the real issues.
00:31:52.640Because it spills over into these same terrains as well.
00:31:56.140I mean, that's why you get endless comments saying, oh, well, maybe because Spencer has a picture with the Bush that he's secretly a Fed working blah, blah, blah.
00:32:03.560Like these very same these very same currents run through all notions of the right in America, not just not just mainstream conservatives, but it's within our own spheres as well.
00:32:15.620It's very prevalent. And it's a huge problem to try and get to get over that, because when you're trying to appeal to people and get them on board, you're always stuck with these leftovers of conspiratorial libertarian thinking that just permeates all the political atmosphere.
00:32:31.300They don't they don't they don't like anything radical. That's that's the point.
00:32:34.700And so sometimes things that are radical have to be proposed and things that are radical have to be done and decisive things have to be done.
00:32:40.620And in those kinds of situations, often there are exceptions. Someone like Mrs. Thatcher, perhaps in some ways, was an exception.
00:32:48.080There was a difficult situation. There was this thing with the Falklands. The Argentines invaded the Falklands.
00:32:53.220A decision had to be made. The Belgrano had sailed into the exclusion zone around the Falklands.
00:32:59.420What do we do? And she made that decision that was dramatized in the movie The Iron Lady, you know, sinker.
00:33:04.280And that's it. And someone like Boris Johnson is much more of a conservative or David Cameron.
00:33:10.900They don't want to have to do things like that. It goes against their instincts to have to do radical things.
00:33:17.000And when you're in a situation of a cultural revolution like this, then what you need is to stop it or to confront it is decisive action.
00:33:24.700And that's what I was referring to earlier about Enoch Powell. What he was saying was there are terrible things happening in the land and we need to do something decisive.
00:33:33.340We need to do something dramatic. We need to do something radical in order to stop this, in order to nip this madness in the bud, as he saw it.
00:33:40.860But a conservative of the Edward Heath kind, they can't do things like that.
00:33:45.720They would freeze in the headlights like rabbits in response to that kind of thing happening.
00:33:51.080And that's what that's there. That's their problem, as far as I'm concerned, in situations of crisis, in situations of non-crisis, then fine.
00:33:59.360They can manage things and they'll be quite calm and whatever.
00:34:02.640But this is not the situation we're in. We're in a situation, basically existential crisis for the West that's been that's been pinpointed into this.
00:34:10.500And they've prevented the rise of people who actually would do something decisive.
00:34:18.780I mean, and they have, every one of those people you mentioned.
00:34:23.700And so one of the fundamental reasons why nothing can really be done, there can't be real opposition to cancel culture, the left, the riots, or what have you, is the lack of any serious right-wing opposition that would say no.
00:34:47.700Well, this is probably what interests me about it, is because we're talking about cancel culture, this division and battle between elites, which it is.
00:34:54.940But at the same time, the cultural purge is happening on a mass scale, right?
00:34:59.980It's hundreds of thousands of people participating in it and allowing it to happen.
00:35:03.620And as we were talking about the conspiratorial thinking and the gatekeeping occurring even within the right and within the distant right, it spills over the exact same attitudes, usually without people knowing it.
00:35:14.400Is it self-purging of any actual challenging authority that could rise up or movement that could actually say no?
00:35:21.680Because it's always, you're attacking, ultimately, at the end of the day, you're attacking a large cultural revolution mass, which, while it has its origins in battles between elites, that's infecting every manner of how we actually think and engage politically on the online sphere and in the real world, right?
00:35:37.280And so you're always pushing against this mass, and it's always nameless, and it's always overwhelming.
00:35:42.700And this is why it's so hard to get proper organization going, because that thinking spills into it.
00:35:48.580And everyone starts, you get very distrustful, and you immediately cancel somebody.
00:35:52.500Like, at the moment you hear, okay, well, this person shook hands with somebody at a conference years ago.
00:36:15.340I think I would also add that there's a trend over the last two to three years, and one that's really been accelerated in the last three months.
00:36:27.440And that is that the online cancel culture is starting to reach new people.
00:36:32.540It's starting to reach the white middle class.
00:36:35.240And it is increasingly moving from online into real world matters.
00:36:41.760So I can remember with, you know, the old ride in 2017 and Charlottesville and all that kind of stuff, there was this huge engagement in doxing of people who attended that rally.
00:36:55.520So, you know, and it quickly moved from, you know, doing the typical attack on Richard Spencer or whatever that we had seen for months, and which wasn't really affecting me at all, to let's figure out who that one guy was in the polo shirt holding up a tiki torch, and let's figure out who he was, where he works, and let's get him fired.
00:37:22.060And they were successful in some pretty dramatic ways.
00:37:25.740There was actually one young person who I had never met or even heard of, who after being doxed, committed suicide.
00:37:35.200And he was actually, I believe his last name was Dodson.
00:37:38.260And he was actually someone who was an impressive young man who was doing research of some kind.
00:39:02.880There's two rival gangs fighting for control of some particular part of Cheshire.
00:39:08.400And so you get a court case which says that this person killed one of Sapir's Dutton's servants.
00:39:15.020The worst servant was all-encompassing.
00:39:16.660Anybody in his gang is his servant, his retinue.
00:39:19.080But it would be someone low down, a husbandman, a yeoman farmer, someone like that, because those are the people you can easily get to their property and kill them.
00:39:26.500And then, oh, and then as a consequence, then a load of people from the other gang, William Brereton or whatever, lay in wait for some people from Dutton's gang to pass through this land and they kill them or whatever.
00:39:56.960Because it sends a chill factor to chill.
00:39:58.440Yeah, yeah, and they, they, yeah, I remember going after Kyle Bristow, who was acting as my lawyer and so on.
00:40:05.420Yeah, going after support, buttressing support is absolutely more effective than doing yet another article on how Richard Spencer is evil.
00:40:16.480And that was what effectively destroyed the alt-right.
00:40:19.180But I guess to return to the longer thread that I was making, so we had that in 2017 and 2018, which was, you know, grotesque in many ways.
00:40:30.700And then now you have people getting canceled in real life in really real ways.
00:40:37.000The McCloskey family, this was a couple, I don't even know if they had children, but a couple of tort lawyers who became fabulously wealthy and created this home outside of St. Louis in a gated community that seemed to evoke the Tudor age in parts, as well as the 18th century.
00:40:58.600And they, there was a, so these are, Black Lives Matter is a cause that this couple endorsed over and over.
00:41:07.660Then it came to their doorstep and they stepped outside wearing khakis and dockers, carrying machine guns and pointing them at people.
00:41:16.740And it, you know, became a, an amusing meme.
00:41:19.900But they, their home was recently raided and so on.
00:41:25.360But there, there was another, you know, now notorious example of a woman who seemed to be getting into an argument with a black person and she pointed a gun at her.
00:41:38.640Now, I, I, I would say that, you know, one of the rules of firearms is that if you ever draw your weapon, you should use it.
00:41:47.220That is, uh, you don't point your gun at people, uh, if you, if someone is threatening your life, you draw your weapon and you fire it, uh, pointing a gun, uh, creates, uh, nothing good.
00:42:00.500Uh, but that, you know, tactical critique aside, uh, these people were in chaotic situations.
00:42:08.840They, they likely feared for their life in a very genuine manner and they were attempting to protect themselves.
00:42:17.080Uh, these people are going to be arrested and going to be absolutely destroyed.
00:42:22.120Um, and I don't, I, I think we're actually even passing over a point where being a McCloskey and, you know, uh, suing corporations for anti-discrimination or whatever they did or for discrimination or whatever they did and talking about how you love Black Lives Matter or whatever, uh, is not enough.
00:42:41.460Um, and those people are being canceled actually in a much kind of realer way, uh, than, uh, the cancellation of any, you know, any suffering that I've undergone, uh, or even suffering that some people underwent, um, by getting fired from a job.
00:42:58.540Uh, these people are going to be, uh, depicted as national pariahs.
00:43:04.240Uh, they might, they, in all likelihood, they're going to serve some kind of jail time, uh, for this offense that they committed.
00:43:11.360That it isn't really an offense at all.
00:43:13.760Uh, and, um, I, yeah, I, I, I think things are escalating to that point where the upper, white upper middle class is going to be increasingly canceled at least, you know, in, in, in strong examples of this, they are going to be increasingly canceled and the other members of that class are going to get the message, uh, as they do.
00:43:36.540And they are going to basically not defend themselves, uh, against these mobs.
00:43:46.260I think this was just yesterday or a day before, but, uh, a mother got shot in the head in front of her three-year-old son and husband for saying all lives matter in response to a Black Lives Matter protest.
00:43:58.460So if she, if she was able to defend herself, well, then she would have been in a situation like the couple or the lady in front of the grocery store who was pregnant, by the way.
00:44:06.920And they were kicking her vehicle and standing behind it so they couldn't get away and trying to beat her down, basically.
00:44:12.700And so it's this deadlock where you can't defend yourself.
00:44:16.400And then on top of that, you have the middle class, even the upper middle class, the white upper middle class is already disappearing anyways, right?
00:44:24.020It's being removed out of positions of influence and jobs and status.
00:44:27.820They're already losing that to higher IQ immigration, not just mass immigration from below.
00:44:32.940So you have that situation from the top and then from the bottom, you've got, you know, if you defend yourself, you're going to go to jail because this is okay.
00:44:40.860And then we'll get hundreds of thousands of people to support you in this because you might have said the N word or something, or you might have said all lives matter.
00:44:47.500And the interesting thing is, is creating this situation, which to me reminds me of not just the legal side of this, of course, but reminds me of how we used to have honor and shame societies instead of historically anyways, in ancient times,
00:45:01.180where you were outcast from the group.
00:45:03.600So instead of having guilt, you had shame in the sense that the way in which you try to reconcile yourself or remove yourself or the way in which you felt that you transgressed was against the group rather than just your own sense of guilt.
00:45:16.140So we had this case recently in Canada and UBC, the University of British Columbia, the administrator who was working there, he simply liked a tweet that was supporting Black Lives Matter,
00:45:29.780saying maybe don't go too far with the protests, right?
00:45:33.440And they demanded his stepping down, and then they pressured him, he had gotten fired, and he wrote a letter of apology after he got fired.
00:45:44.080And that's the strength of it, is that even once you've been outcasted, you're still trying to reconcile yourselves and redeem yourselves to this group shame that you're feeling.
00:45:52.440And to me, that is part of the real danger of all this, is you've got the legal side, the attack on your livelihood, and then with that, you have the moral justification, which is permeating the way in which you see yourself and try to redeem yourself to the group.
00:46:07.740Are they really feeling shame, though, these people, or are they just hoping that even though after he's been fired, doing some public apology might help them in some way to get back on the ladder again?
00:46:19.480Well, I think they're actually feeling shame.
00:46:21.480I mean, almost anyone I've encountered that's been called out online or something, they feel like they say how dirty they feel for even thinking that.
00:46:30.640All right, like, there's a strong move to make it so, like, this is the moral norm.
00:46:37.100And if you're transgressing in the group in this regard, you're transgressing against something that's moral, like you're being immoral, right?
00:46:46.740I mean, yeah, maybe if you're, like, a conservative, outrageous speaker, and you maybe overstep the bounds when you're on some tour and you're trying to be crazy, you're like, oh, I didn't really mean it that way.
00:46:55.880Then, yeah, I doubt that they're really ashamed.
00:46:57.540But, I mean, if you're, like, an average working person, like you're an administrator or you're just, like, a lawyer and you say, okay, yeah, I might have liked a clique that was a little bit too critical in Black Lives Matter.
00:47:10.220Now I'm being socially ostracized by my family and friends.
00:47:33.640I mean, there are serious incentives involved with, you know, entering the upper middle class by basically, you know, announcing a series of shibboleths.
00:47:45.540But I also agree that we don't live, I mean, when people attack the postmodern age as, you know, anti-moral or purely rational or something like that, I think they get it entirely wrong.
00:48:01.080We live in a hyper moral age and people need that, particularly the upper middle class people who are really sensitive to that type of stuff.
00:48:09.760Yes, I mean, it's the replacement of the sexual shame in that sense, isn't it?
00:48:17.060A hundred years ago, it was the way that you signaled your middle classness was by your sexual constancy and your sexual ethics.
00:48:25.660And then there was a period, a period of chaos where this was all questioned and whatever.
00:48:30.360And even when I was a child, there was an element of which middle class was about that.
00:48:33.260And then some kind of flip over, I don't know when it happened, the 90s maybe, and it became the people that were questioning that system, the people that were the outsiders questioning that middle class system, the radicals, whatever, that were saying, oh, let's have sexual liberation.
00:48:48.940That became the sign of middle classness and that and its associated, although, to be fair, even though their sexual behavior is more regulated than that of working class people.
00:50:08.060Like these people, like David Wilde, this thing in Britain, it's called Little Britain.
00:50:12.020It's quite a funny, quite simple comedy, but quite funny and reasonably kind of prepared to mock everything, including politically correct type things.
00:50:25.340And these are people that have spent their careers to a certain extent.
00:50:28.000They're not really over the top in this regard, but to a certain extent, they're part of this politically correct establishment that you get that gets wheeled out on British panel shows and makes jokes.
00:50:37.680And they've had their programme, both their programme, two of them, Little Britain and another one called Come Fly With Me, removed from the BBC.
00:51:19.920Like this is what Foucault would call a verediction, creates this space of truth and justification in which knowledge, power and institutional power is oriented around.
00:51:28.200It's not that they know it's entirely constructed.
00:51:30.820I mean, to them, that is the truth that they live.
00:51:57.900This is the means through which you compete to be the best, through which you try to get to the top.
00:52:02.540And they've ballsed it up and the community aren't happy with them.
00:52:06.080And if you were in the Christian Union, the way you ballsed it up was by being known as a girl to have got off with a random bloke at a nightclub, got off being snogged, you know, necked, whatever you call it in America.
00:52:26.120Anyway, and that was the thing you weren't allowed to do if you were in the Christian Union.
00:52:30.960And then there'd be gossip and there'd be shame and there'd be going and reconfessing your Christianity and doing and doing a new kind of public confession.
00:53:05.300And that's what these people have to do in order to the public.
00:53:08.920Like what you mentioned, this guy from Canada, you have to do a public confession of your sins and hope that that will be enough to permit you.
00:53:17.840And then you get, of course, an arms race in how over the top and how emotional and how self-debasing your public confession can be, as we saw with Black Lives Matter protests.
00:54:17.520And then there was this paper by Corrie Clark.
00:54:19.420Her name is quite a spunky fellow, really.
00:54:22.040But she did this paper in which she looked at how IQ and its relationship with criminality at the national level.
00:54:32.900And she showed that anyway, the point is that they used the Linden Van Pyn IQ data.
00:54:38.460They then withdrew the paper, publicly withdrew the paper because they were getting all this pressure because of Black Lives Matter.
00:54:44.180Even even though there's been maybe a thousand papers published using Linden Van Pyn's data.
00:54:50.080And obviously they're not all going to be withdrawn.
00:54:52.520That data has been redone by somebody else who found a 0.87 correlation, which is extremely high, between his redoing of it and what Lynn did.
00:55:01.440So, OK, there are mistakes and there are problems.
00:55:04.460But it was redone and there was no reason to withdraw the paper at all.
00:55:12.200But they did because they were put under pressure and they were told, oh, if you do this, then this could happen.
00:55:17.380If you don't withdraw it, then we'll complain to the publisher and we'll complain to the advertisers and all of this.
00:55:23.240This thing is magicked up and you get all these emails coordinated, obviously, saying, oh, and then you'll get mass resignations from the editorial board.
00:55:30.260And all of these threats are given to you and we'll come for your work and we'll try to get an academic misconduct investigation done against you.
00:55:37.920And they're normally, you know, stitched up, those kinds of things.
00:55:40.600And so then they just caved in and shut up and hope it goes away.
00:55:43.680But what you don't know about, I can't talk, is things going on behind the scenes.
00:55:48.740It is happening behind the scenes that people are being pressured to withdraw their papers and they're not doing so.
00:55:54.360And the journals are being pressured to withdraw their papers and they're refusing to do so.
00:55:59.680And entire, you know, people have resigned from editorial boards over racist papers and then tough.
00:56:06.940People are standing up against this behind the scenes that you don't hear about.
00:56:10.620You only hear about the ones that cuck.
00:56:12.980I don't think this is going to pass so easily.
00:56:25.620And I do think it will before it passes.
00:56:28.500What do you think will happen before it passes?
00:56:30.680Do you have any back of the hand prognostications?
00:56:36.200I think we're going to see increasing examples of the criminalization of defending yourself.
00:56:43.420I don't think that police departments are going to be totally defunded or anything like that.
00:56:50.120But I do think there are going to be serious reforms, quote unquote, that are going to affect crime.
00:56:57.540I think the upper white middle class is going to be increasingly unable to insulate themselves from these issues.
00:57:08.300But until there is a real alternative to these things and not just people saying, well, you know, what happened to free speech or, you know, so much for liberal tolerance, there won't be any real pushback.
00:57:23.460Because I don't know, it's kind of an all or nothing thing.
00:57:26.440Like you're either dominated or you dominate.
00:57:29.680And, you know, unless there is a new hegemonic system of people willing to force others to get in line, this is these people are the strong ones and they are going to increasingly force us to get in line.
00:57:45.100One of the things that I think we discussed a while ago and before the BLM, but during the riots, when this disorder starts to hit the middle class, when it gets to their communities, then you might see some sort of backlash against it.
00:58:01.760And it is now hitting them in America anyway, not anywhere else, but in America.
00:59:00.200They're not actually challenging the entire main current.
00:59:03.620They're swimming with it still at the end of the day.
00:59:06.420And any kind of backlash is just going to be like a petite bourgeois one about their own plate in the system.
00:59:12.480And so I think that process does need to start washing over them as well.
00:59:16.120And in that sense, that may be like what that's getting at when you have people refusing to rescind, you know, journals, articles out of journals.
00:59:23.880Like that's a form maybe you could say like an early form of white strike.
00:59:27.280But it's only when you reach a certain critical mass in which it starts washing over everyone and there is no solution at that point.
00:59:34.420And then once you like, OK, well, if you want us to withdraw from the system, then we're going to withdraw from the system.
00:59:38.740And that's the only way I think you can really send an effective message on this regard.
00:59:43.620But you can only do that once you've been sufficiently cleansed.
00:59:47.080You can't have people holding on to all these, you know, positions of, OK, well, I'm somewhat affluent.
00:59:55.040Just don't go on my lawn, which basically that's what we're seeing right now, which, of course, is horrible to not be allowed to defend yourself.
01:00:03.340I'm just saying that's still coming out of just a position of defense, not a position of actually attacking the paradigm, which a lot of these people, of course, were going along with in the first place.
01:00:16.120The paradigm has to be attacked at a moral level and it has to be undermined totally.
01:00:23.680In order to defeat it, otherwise, it's just simply going to be stronger than any kind of reactionary force.
01:00:29.060Yeah, because I think that's what we're doing in our own little way.
01:00:36.800I don't think what we want is for the upper middle class whites to have their way where they can say, just like, just imagine if BLM listened to them like they're not.