REAL AF with Andy Frisella - 12. Throwback： LEADERSHIP： The Dichotomy It Takes To Dominate, Ft. Jocko Willink

00:00:00.000 told my teacher dumb bitch i'm gonna get millions watch this in the project living

00:00:04.700 spoke it till existence mo changed to 50 got mo cost than did it i only weigh 180 but my watch

00:00:11.760 cost 250 what's up guys it's andy frisella and this is the show for the realist say goodbye to

00:00:18.220 the lies the fakeness and delusions of modern society and welcome to motherfucking reality

00:00:23.840 guys recently i've been getting tons of emails and dms and questions about leadership all right

00:00:30.760 and that's great because leadership really is the key to your success if you don't know how to lead

00:00:38.120 you're going to be very limited in what you can accomplish in your life now a lot of people are

00:00:44.460 confused about how to lead a lot of people think that leadership is something you're born with

00:00:49.100 they're searching for the easy way to become a leader and recently it got me thinking about an

00:00:54.400 episode i did on the old show the mfceo project with one of my good friends jocko willing we had

00:01:00.700 a great conversation about leadership and all the challenges that leaders face and if you don't know

00:01:05.720 jocko he's written a number of books on leadership and in my opinion is the master the current living

00:01:13.780 master of becoming an effective leader this episode originally aired back in september of 2018 but the

00:01:21.300 information that's in that podcast is just as valuable and relevant today as it was when we first

00:01:27.980 released it and i know a lot of you guys haven't had the experience because you just found us to listen

00:01:33.620 to this show so i want to plug this in for you guys to listen to and i think it will bring a ton of

00:01:39.500 value on your quest to become a leader so i hope you guys enjoy the show and if you do if you learn

00:01:45.960 something if you had a laugh which i guarantee you you will with this show please leave us a review

00:01:51.720 and tell your friends tell your family when uh the topic comes up of where you're getting such awesome

00:01:58.360 knowledge that you're just blowing people's fucking minds with all right that's the deal i want to make

00:02:03.620 with you if you like it tell a friend all right guys i love you guys take notes in this show

00:02:09.400 listen carefully listen to it a few different times because this show will make a difference

00:02:16.200 for you i promise you that so get to it what is up guys you're listening to the mf ceo project i'm andy

00:02:23.140 i'm your host and i am the motherfucking ceo guys if you're new to the podcast first off welcome

00:02:29.660 um second off why do we call this the mf ceo project it's because i'm here to help you

00:02:38.420 become the motherfucking ceo of your life all right yes this is an entrepreneurship podcast

00:02:44.660 but it's also a personal development and no you don't have to own your own business to benefit from

00:02:49.940 it um we don't have ads we don't uh ask for anything i'm not selling anything but what i do

00:02:56.660 ask is that if you find benefit from this episode and i guarantee you you will find benefit from this

00:03:03.620 episode and i'll tell you why in a minute uh i ask that you share it with one friend all right

00:03:08.260 if you've got a friend if you've got somebody who is like-minded you think that they uh would enjoy

00:03:12.740 the content here i ask that you share it talk about it um and uh help us grow the movement

00:03:19.300 as always i'm joined by my host vaughn the pastor of disaster aka dj dj god aka

00:03:31.220 vaughn the impaler vaughn the impaler aka how the man of many names the man of many names yeah what's

00:03:38.100 up dude dude i i'm a i'm a very weird combination of excited you are very weird yes excited gratified

00:03:46.340 and tired just like what we experienced over the last couple days oh that was cool yeah

00:03:50.260 it was so we just got back from idaho from the first arte syndicate summit uh which is our high

00:03:55.780 level uh entrepreneurship society that emilette and i have created um i guess this is an ad right

00:04:02.100 yeah it was by the way it was fucking awesome it was leave it at that yeah uh dude we have an

00:04:07.220 awesome i've been looking forward to this show for literally three years um we have my

00:04:14.900 most anticipated guests that we've ever had on the show uh and i'll tell you why that is before i

00:04:22.900 tell you who it is um leadership is i tell you guys all the time you have to have two skills to be

00:04:31.860 ultimately successful in life you've got to learn how to lead and manage people and you have to learn

00:04:36.580 how to sell shit and yes you could find your role in life with one of those skills or the other and be

00:04:43.780 moderately successful but if you want to have unlimited success you have to have both skills

00:04:51.220 and a lot of people look at me and they see

00:04:57.540 someone who they think was gifted with the skills of leadership uh and that's just completely false um i was

00:05:04.820 not a very good leader for the first 10 or 12 years i was in business i was not the captain of my sports

00:05:11.460 teams um i was not born with leadership skills and i've had to learn them and one of the books that

00:05:18.980 i've read along the way that has really helped me uh become an effective leader i am not a great leader

00:05:25.300 i have a long way to go um but one of the books that has helped me become an effective leader is

00:05:31.940 extreme ownership and uh today i am super super honored uh to have the author one of the authors of that book

00:05:39.140 uh jocko willink here with us today so uh what's up dude thanks for having me on oh man this is this

00:05:46.740 is awesome he just spoke to our team um and that was great man i'm like super pumped about that uh

00:05:55.780 i don't know man i'm like it i don't look up to many people dude you're one of the dudes i look up to

00:05:59.940 you and so it's it's really and i know that's weird because like we're we're but we're like of similar

00:06:04.500 age and we're like you know we have podcasts that are similar size and but dude it's just an honor to

00:06:10.500 have you man for real thanks for having me on i i can promise you there's many things about me that

00:06:14.420 will make you not look up to me at all no bro it's uh it's been cool to to read and listen to your

00:06:20.900 podcast and learn and uh i just really appreciate what you're doing doing for the world i think a lot

00:06:26.580 of people um in entrepreneurship they do what i just said they they struggle with leadership because

00:06:33.060 they think that they look at polished leaders like you uh or other guys running big companies

00:06:39.620 like me and they think like dude this guy was just born with these skills and they think we're

00:06:43.060 superheroes and we know all this shit but the truth of the matter is is is that's not true you know

00:06:51.220 we uh we we were born with with certain skills but not all the skills and and do we fuck up as much

00:06:57.620 as anybody you know what i'm saying yeah without without uh screwing up along the way you've never

00:07:03.780 learned anything right and and and also you take risks to try and make things happen and sometimes

00:07:08.580 they're successful and sometimes they're not and you can do one of two things when that happens if you

00:07:12.660 have to do something that's not successful you can either let it destroy you or you can learn from

00:07:15.780 it and move on so i recommend you learn from your mistakes and move on and and make them make you a

00:07:21.140 better person and make make them make you a better leader which they will and if you look at any of these

00:07:25.780 what you call a polished leader which is a good term because there's some people out there that look

00:07:30.180 very polished all of them have a history of errors and mistakes that they made that they built into

00:07:36.980 their life and corrected them and moved in the right direction for sure one of the things that i'm super

00:07:42.340 uh grateful for is your new book uh and i posted it on my instagram story last week uh i read the book

00:07:49.460 literally right when i got it um i started the night that by the way thank you for sending me that

00:07:54.420 uh i'm pretty honored to have you know the preview copy that's cool that's when i'm done with that

00:07:59.140 that's going to go on my shelf um the uh the dichotomy of leadership um i i personally think that

00:08:08.820 that book is like extreme ownership on fucking steroids man like it is it is awesome uh i loved

00:08:14.660 extreme ownership but man if i had the dichotomy of leadership when i was 20 years old you know what

00:08:21.380 i mean what would my life look like i know exactly what you mean yeah we were talking before the show

00:08:25.700 and i said that and you were like yeah i wish i had it too people say that to me all the time you

00:08:29.700 know i wish i would have had this book and i always say yeah i wish i would have had it too extreme

00:08:33.540 ownership the same thing with dichotomy these these books these are you know we just talked about all

00:08:38.180 these mistakes and how you learn from mistakes you don't have to make the mistakes yourself you can

00:08:41.780 actually read someone else's mistakes and learn from them so that's another thing i would recommend you read

00:08:46.740 a book like extreme ownership and extreme ownership as you know it starts off with the first chapter

00:08:52.740 which is about a horrible situation that occurred on the battlefield friendly forces fighting against

00:08:59.940 friendly forces which is in my opinion the worst possible thing that can happen and i was the guy in

00:09:04.820 charge of it so it doesn't get any worse than that and and and you can you don't have to experience

00:09:10.740 that yourself you can read about it you can understand what i learned from it what we learned from it

00:09:15.860 and it's the same thing in dichotomy it's like hey these are situations that you know the debate

00:09:20.420 the fundamental the fundamental idea of the dichotomy of leadership is that there's these opposing forces

00:09:27.540 that are pulling you as a leader in opposite directions and what's really hard is that both the

00:09:32.900 directions that you're getting pulled are usually correct so you're getting pulled in two different

00:09:36.340 directions opposite directions and both those directions are correct so being a that's what makes

00:09:41.460 being a leader so hard and and you know some of the common examples that you know i was talking

00:09:46.260 about before the show it's like is there is there such a thing well we know that a leader has to

00:09:50.580 communicate right obviously a leader has to talk to his people can a leader talk too much absolutely

00:09:56.580 can a leader talk too little absolutely where do you want to be you want to be somewhere in the

00:10:00.820 middle can a leader be too close to their people yes they can but can they also be too distant

00:10:06.980 from their people and not understand what's driving them and not understand what problems

00:10:10.020 they're facing on the front lines yes you can be too distant from your people where do you want to

00:10:13.940 be you want to be in the middle somewhere can someone be too much of a micromanager well absolutely

00:10:18.500 you can be too much of a micromanager but the opposite of that is you're two hands off with

00:10:23.140 your people and they don't even know what's happening so these are the different dichotomies that

00:10:28.500 you as a leader have to balance and absolutely if i would have known this 20 years ago when i was

00:10:34.020 starting in leadership inside the seal teams yeah my my world would have been a lot easier and i would

00:10:38.980 have been a much better leader for sure man dude i i'm not a very smart guy so i didn't know what

00:10:43.620 dichotomy meant uh we bon you i know you knew what it meant um did you i had a pretty close are you

00:10:49.860 lying i know i know i had i thought i had a basic idea i was thinking more like paradox but it's not

00:10:55.940 really the same thing but i knew it had something to do with opposing ends of things you know what was

00:11:00.900 cool about when i started reading the book um i dude it just brought so much clarity like instantly

00:11:08.100 because uh like i i text you i text you like right away when i was reading it i'm like holy

00:11:12.660 shit dude this is awesome and the reason it was awesome was because it it really validated

00:11:18.180 why i had made these mistakes in the past um like for example like the micromanaging versus hands-off

00:11:26.020 right you know i was always the guy who was at one extreme or the other and i would let guys get

00:11:32.180 so far out that i had to micromanage them to bring them back in and then i was like pissed right and i'm

00:11:38.340 pissed at them because i'm like dude you were doing it right but now you're so far off the radar like what

00:11:44.740 the fuck are you guys doing you know what i mean and i couldn't understand what i was doing wrong and

00:11:49.540 then when i read the book i'm like the lights went on and i'm like holy cow dude this makes perfect

00:11:55.860 sense and and i mean it's been a week but i can't i'm so excited about what it's going to mean to our

00:12:01.700 company you know what i mean because it instantly made me realize like i know i knew what you were

00:12:07.540 saying like and i understood that but i didn't understand that it was correct to have both things be

00:12:13.460 right yeah and that's that's what's that's what's really nice about this is just the simple awareness

00:12:20.980 that this exists the simple awareness that it exists allows you once you see it's like when

00:12:25.780 you're when you're when you don't understand it when you don't know it exists you're just shooting

00:12:29.140 it you don't even know where the target is right you're just pulling the trigger you don't know what

00:12:32.420 you're shooting at once you realize that hey there's one extreme there's the other extreme i need

00:12:36.660 to be balanced somewhere in the middle once you realize that it allows you to see it and then act on

00:12:41.780 it as opposed to just micromanaging too much you don't know why everyone's gets frozen up and won't

00:12:46.980 act won't take any initiative anymore why why won't they these guys aren't stepping on these guys aren't

00:12:51.060 taking any any ownership of anything they're waiting for me to do everything that's because you've been

00:12:54.740 micromanaging so much you trained them to be that way and so then you go the other way where you just

00:12:59.620 go okay i'm gonna i'm just gonna let them do whatever they want and then they start running in

00:13:02.420 random directions because they're not sure where they're supposed to go because they haven't been told

00:13:06.900 well now you got the the opposite problem on your hands so when you realize that both those

00:13:11.620 dichotomies exist and that you need to be balanced in the middle it really i think this book is gonna

00:13:16.020 help people immensely there i mean it is gonna first of all if you're inexperienced leader you're gonna

00:13:22.020 read the book and you're gonna like you're you're gonna read it and it's great because how how you

00:13:28.420 format just like an extreme where you you know you tell a story and then you tell the lesson it's gonna

00:13:33.380 make sense and it's gonna help people understand that when you're beginning but but dude if you're if

00:13:37.940 you're a leader who's been leading for a few years and you're like fuck dude i just can't grasp this

00:13:42.900 it is going to change your life not just from an effectiveness standpoint from a happiness standpoint

00:13:49.300 because i know what it's like to be in that you're trying to run i mean dude we've got seven companies

00:13:54.820 man and we're you know between sal myself chris and jason we're running i mean a million different

00:14:01.220 things that a day and being able to understand that it's not just something that you can do once

00:14:08.580 or that you can set systematically and let it run itself is going to change the change our whole

00:14:15.220 dynamic because dude now we know how to be in the middle there and it's going to make us happier

00:14:21.300 because we're not dealing with this crazy extreme from you know all the way over here and then all

00:14:25.940 the way over there you know now you have like a little instrument panel in your head that's telling

00:14:30.100 you when the engine's running too hot or too cold yeah for sure man and that this book it's seriously

00:14:36.500 the best book i've ever read about leadership and i've read them all and i told you that yeah i mean

00:14:40.740 it um and if you guys don't buy it there's something wrong with your brains a question that i had is um

00:14:45.700 so i get the basic concept of achieving balance but it seems to me that it's also true that depending

00:14:50.580 on your staff and the people around you that you're going to have a a separate dichotomy for each

00:14:57.380 person that you're leading and you're going to have to in some cases you are going to have to swing

00:15:01.780 a little bit more micromanaging and others you know macromanaging whatever the opposite of that is

00:15:07.380 how do you do that without going insane you're you're right you do have to modulate your your

00:15:14.580 behavior and you have to modulate your leadership so that's let's just talk about that if you got

00:15:20.500 10 people that are working for you right there's three or four of those people that are go-getters

00:15:25.620 that are going to make things happen they're firing forget missiles you give them you give

00:15:29.060 them a mission and they're going to go make it happen there's two or three of those people that

00:15:33.780 you're going to have to micromanage them hold their hands and and you know guide them much more

00:15:38.580 stringently and there'll be some people that are in the middle so the way you don't go insane is

00:15:42.740 you're allowed to say okay my guys over here that are going to make this happen don't need to worry

00:15:46.820 about them so i can focus on these folks that need a little bit more leadership and management right

00:15:51.060 now and by the way my goal is not to continue to micromanage them forever my goal is to get them

00:15:56.340 up to speed and get them where they're making decisions on their own and get them where they

00:15:59.380 become fire and forget missiles and then guess what i'm going to do i'm going to put them in

00:16:02.020 charge i'm going to build a bigger team and i'm going to bring a new group in that i'm going to then

00:16:06.020 train and lead up and get them up to speed as well until i just keep building my organization

00:16:10.420 until i'm filled with the kind of leaders that i want and what what i do when i have leaders that i want

00:16:14.900 working for me well now instead of looking down and inside of my own organization i'm looking up and

00:16:20.020 out i'm seeing where i can grow where i can move like you got seven companies right if you if you

00:16:25.860 had crappy leaders what was the first one uh our retail operation called supplement superstore so

00:16:30.660 at some point you got that to a point you had some people that could run that without you really

00:16:35.140 having to worry about so then you could go oh wait a second what was your next business right first

00:16:39.620 form for your next you said okay you know what we could probably have our own brand right now if you

00:16:44.660 would have been sitting there trying to square away the stores you would have never thought of that

00:16:48.740 right but luckily you got some leaders you you micromanage them i'm sure at first until they

00:16:53.540 got to the point where they were running it then you looked up and said you know what we can do our

00:16:57.060 own brand right we can do this right and then you got control of that you built that you did it again

00:17:02.740 and now you're at number seven yeah dude i think the biggest thing that i struggle with and i think

00:17:07.460 and you would know this better than me because you speak to so many different companies

00:17:11.220 is thinking that a team and i see this now i mean i don't do this anymore but this was something i

00:17:19.540 made as a young leader uh but looking and managing the team as a team as as it in saying like thinking

00:17:26.900 they're all the same you know what i mean that you're dealing like kind of an uh evolution of your

00:17:31.220 question you know what i think a lot of young leaders they look at their team and they think they're

00:17:36.420 all the same they think they think like them and that's how they fail at leaders they just talk to

00:17:40.820 them like they're them right and it goes over their head they don't they don't they don't connect with

00:17:46.980 it um and then great leaders what i observe is guys who who who have to have a pulse on the individual

00:17:54.580 components of each team right yeah there's two parts that i'll talk about on that number one if we're

00:18:01.220 going on a mission right and and i'm the leader and i can carry a hundred pound rucksack 10 kilometers

00:18:08.420 in two hours and i plan my mission to go 10 kilometers in two hours with a hundred pound rucksack

00:18:14.740 and you can only it's going to take you five hours we're going to fail right we're going to fail so i

00:18:19.700 have to i have to look at my team i have to see what their capabilities are and i have to plan according

00:18:24.420 to that the other thing is and this is a heavy one because it's a reality that a lot of people don't

00:18:31.540 recognize you have to be you don't you don't get to be the leader that you want to be you have to be

00:18:39.620 the leader that your team needs and you're right that different people need a different modulation

00:18:45.540 of that leader dude i love that but a lot of times we think hey man i would i want to follow a guy

00:18:50.500 that just comes in here and kicks down doors and is going to going to make things happen that's who

00:18:54.180 i want to follow and so you think that's how i'm going to act well the problem is your team is not

00:18:59.300 all like that and and and this is becomes a little bit tricky too so does that mean we have nine

00:19:04.500 different personalities if we're running a nine person team no it means that it means that we carry

00:19:10.420 ourselves in such a way that the different people on the team identify with the part of us that drives

00:19:17.220 them so it's a challenge and and again you know what leadership is hard leadership is the hardest

00:19:22.580 thing in the world the hardest job ever yep i i mean i said the the very first podcast i was ever on

00:19:29.140 was tim ferris podcast and you know i said look he said what's the hardest you know what's the hardest

00:19:34.100 mission you you planned and i said the the planning of missions is not that hard i mean it's actually

00:19:41.780 pretty pretty damn straightforward hey there's a bad guy here we're gonna take helicopters or

00:19:47.540 vehicles we're gonna get on target we're gonna go in we're gonna kick in the doors we're gonna grab

00:19:52.100 the guy we're gonna get back in our vehicles or back on our helicopters we're gonna fly back and

00:19:55.220 we're gonna that's it that's that's the mission it's not rocket science the hard part by far is you're

00:20:02.580 dealing with human beings and you've got to get these human beings and in that in my old job you've got

00:20:07.300 to get these these human beings who are also your brothers who are also your friends and you gotta

00:20:11.940 you gotta get them to take these massive risks of their lives of their friends lives to go and

00:20:19.540 accomplish this mission and when you deal with that over an extended period of time it's a challenge yeah

00:20:24.420 yeah it's really it's really similar to business though don't you think because if you're a good leader

00:20:30.420 in business you really love your team you know you always see this you see you see the societies

00:20:35.780 what the portrait of a ceo in society is a rich dude that doesn't give a fuck about anybody and

00:20:42.100 steps on everybody's heads and treats everybody bad but the truth of the matter is in successful

00:20:46.900 companies that's really the case the case is the guy who's running the company really really loves

00:20:53.300 his team and wants them to develop uh to the point where a lot of times they become too close to their

00:20:59.300 guys um and make that mistake you know i've done that a million times um how how closely would you say

00:21:12.420 is leadership in the in the teams to leadership in business it's the same exactly it's the same

00:21:19.620 the okay so okay are there differences yes the big difference is the consequences right people don't die

00:21:27.060 people don't die right now i work with businesses where people do die you know you work with a big

00:21:31.140 construction company right your dad was in construction i mean like right you work construction

00:21:35.140 people get killed in construction people get killed on the oil field people get killed pouring concrete

00:21:40.100 i mean so there are jobs where there are huge consequences but none of those jobs have have

00:21:45.940 have a situation where there's another human being that's actively trying to kill you right right

00:21:50.260 so the consequences are definitely higher and but what where where those where those differences

00:21:57.220 come together is as a business leader you've got how many people are working here 200 you got 200

00:22:05.380 people working here there's 200 people that are feeding their family putting a roof over their head

00:22:12.420 paying their vehicle saving for college based on your decision making process responsibility and so you

00:22:19.700 might and and i say this all the time you might not be dealing with their lives but you're dealing

00:22:24.100 with their livelihoods right and if you don't feel the weight of that as a leader like you said if you

00:22:29.540 don't feel the weight of that as a leader you're not going to do a good job for that company right

00:22:33.460 you've got to care about those people and you've got to want to make the right decisions to put them

00:22:36.820 in the right situation yeah now what makes it hard and it's the same thing you know that's the opening

00:22:41.540 chapter of the dichotomy of leadership and i call it the ultimate dichotomy and it truly is there's no

00:22:46.660 greater dichotomy than what a combat leader feels on the battlefield which is this you've got these

00:22:53.220 guys that you care about more than anything else in the world you've worked with them you've trained

00:22:59.380 with them you've drank with them you've eaten with them you've gone through difficult situations with

00:23:04.260 them you love these guys these guys are your brothers and you would do anything for them and what

00:23:10.340 makes it even tighter is that you see and you know and you feel that these guys will do

00:23:15.140 anything for you too they will lay down their lives for you and so you take these guys that you care

00:23:22.580 about so much and what you're going to do with them as their leader is you're going to send them on

00:23:29.140 missions that can get them wounded or killed and that is there's nothing there's for me that is the

00:23:38.740 ultimate dichotomy and it's something that you know when i was on deployments and and facing that every

00:23:44.980 day and then when i lost guys i mean there's there's nothing more challenging as a leader than to go

00:23:52.420 through those situations because guess what when someone gets hurt someone gets wounded someone's get

00:23:57.700 killed on and you're on deployment the deployment doesn't stop the deployment's not over the enemy doesn't

00:24:04.500 take a break things that you have to continue on with your mission and so being able to do that

00:24:11.860 and and and having to do that as a leader and having to balance these these incredibly strong

00:24:17.700 forces that are pulling you one directions you want to take care of your guys and the other the other is

00:24:22.180 you have a duty and you have a mission that you have to get accomplished that's that's the ultimate

00:24:27.780 dichotomy it's it's it's uh it's a ridiculous amount of responsibility and and i think any good

00:24:35.140 leader if you don't realize and i like how you talk about it in the book too how you talk about the the

00:24:40.820 differences their lives versus their livelihood i mean dude if you can't recognize that as a leader

00:24:46.100 there's something wrong with you as a person because you like you said you've got people who are

00:24:50.500 supporting their family paying for their kids to eat you know and your decisions affect all of that

00:24:56.340 and i see a lot of guys that that really disconnect with that as as an owner of a company but dude their

00:25:02.580 companies are never good their companies always suck they always have high turnover they always have

00:25:07.380 people that aren't happy they always have people saying stuff about them on social media and they can't

00:25:12.180 figure out why and the reason why is because you don't give a fuck about your team dude and if you

00:25:16.420 don't want to if you don't want your your people to care about your company you've got to care about

00:25:20.980 them first you know and i think that's something that oh you know people buy into because

00:25:26.180 right now entrepreneurship is the hot thing right everybody's an entrepreneur um but they think

00:25:31.940 that being an entrepreneur is getting a widget and selling it via facebook ads and this and that

00:25:36.980 and dude that can get you some good success and i am getting somewhere with this that could get you

00:25:41.060 some good success you can make some cash but if you really want to become successful long term you

00:25:48.020 have to know and learn and develop your leadership skills and i think i talk to these guys all the

00:25:54.100 time and they're like dude i want to build a brand but i'm just not a good leader i'm just not a good

00:25:58.900 leader you know that's not for me i have guys in my own company they said you know i i like to sell

00:26:05.380 i'm good at selling but i just don't want to manage people and i don't want to lead people and i'm like

00:26:10.580 well why not and they're like because i'm not a leader what would you say to someone like that

00:26:14.180 well as you pointed out earlier there's there's no one well there's very few people that just feel

00:26:23.060 out of the gate like hey i'm gonna step up and start leading and what what bothers me the most

00:26:27.460 about the statement that you just made is it's people that are saying hey look i'm not comfortable

00:26:33.940 in a leadership position therefore i am not going to do it and to me that's that's like a just a giant

00:26:41.220 cop-out you're throwing up the white flag dude in life you know and and you know we were talking

00:26:46.260 earlier as well that it you know like you said you can reach some level of success because you can

00:26:53.220 sell well you can reach some level of success because you have some individual skills that are

00:26:58.180 that are good but if you want to actually achieve something meaning meaningful you can't do it alone

00:27:04.980 you can't do it alone so you need to learn how to be a leader and there's there's no really no

00:27:11.060 two ways about around that i mean okay i guess there is there is one way around it you can just

00:27:15.220 stay where you are where you are right and be an individual contributor and some people like that

00:27:19.300 yeah they're great and that's fine yeah you know i need you need you need those you need cogs in the

00:27:23.620 wheel man but your goal should not should be your goal should never be to be a fucking cog it should be to

00:27:30.580 help the team win and to help the team win that means you've got to constantly be developing i mean

00:27:36.020 dude that's why you write the books right you write the books dude if everybody was born a good leader

00:27:40.420 you wouldn't have books to sell you know what i'm saying yeah that's the truth and like so many young

00:27:45.700 kids especially you guys listening and you're thinking dude i'm not a leader guess what i wasn't

00:27:49.940 a fucking leader either now i get paid a lot of money to go talk about being a fucking leader just like

00:27:56.580 you do you know what i'm saying it's crazy i was the worst fucking leader ever dude i told you

00:28:00.820 outside i've ruined a ton of good people because of decisions i made because i thought i knew what i

00:28:06.900 was doing when i did it and uh and then you know it's funny because it's like the it's like the the

00:28:12.820 dunning-kruger effect like when you think you're good you actually suck and then when you actually get

00:28:16.740 good you realize how much you don't know yeah and we both said that when we were talking privately

00:28:21.620 you know i said dude i've got a million miles to go and you go your exact response was dude so do i

00:28:25.940 and i thought that was cool man and that explains a lot about you as to why you've been successful

00:28:30.500 where you are we used to i made up this when i was running the training for the west coast seal teams

00:28:34.740 i made up these self-evaluations where you could grade yourself on what your tactical prowess was

00:28:41.620 how well you interacted with your troops how well you could simplify plans how well you could assess

00:28:46.260 dynamic situations and the guys would grade themselves one to five one being the worst and five being the

00:28:51.220 best and and i just had the leaders fill out these forms and didn't think much of it at the time

00:28:56.660 and then we had this guy that was really not a good leader and real arrogant thought he knew

00:29:03.380 everything and i went and said you know let me look at these forms that i had these guys filled out so i

00:29:07.700 pulled out his form and no kidding he graded himself fives across the board he was he was an expert

00:29:13.940 the highest possible grade in every category that was in his mind and and he was one of the worst in

00:29:19.140 fact he ended up getting fired fake it till you make it yeah and so once i saw that i decided you

00:29:24.980 know what and i pulled up another guy who is a great leader who is just doing a fabulous job really

00:29:31.220 respected by his guys and by up the chain of command i pulled out what he graded himself and he gave

00:29:36.500 himself like 2.3 you know 3.1 and i actually pulled him aside and i said hey man you gave yourself

00:29:44.980 really low grades you know what are you thinking and he said well you know like like the tactical

00:29:50.740 decision like i always feel like i'm a little bit hesitant and i think i could do a better job with

00:29:54.900 that and i was listening to him and it was like the the switch or the connection got made in my head

00:30:00.980 that was one of the the strongest connections you know because i i mean even extreme ownership we talk

00:30:05.460 about ego that was one of the strongest connections that i made between humility being a a positive

00:30:14.340 thing and ego being a negative thing now i have to clarify this because there's a dichotomy with that

00:30:20.420 as well do you want to have people working for you that are just all humble and no ego

00:30:26.020 they won't do anything right they don't care if they lose they're just like hey i'm not i'm not that

00:30:29.540 good right it doesn't matter what the score is we just we you get a partition participation trophy

00:30:34.180 we're fine no we want people with ego we want people that want to win but when that goes too

00:30:38.980 far and you give yourself 5.0 on every single category you're not going to do you're not going

00:30:44.660 to you're not going to make any adjustments you're not going to improve on anything you're not going

00:30:48.020 to even listen to anybody that was the thing you'd see with with these egotistical seal leaders that we

00:30:52.420 would fire because they wouldn't take any advice you'd have a guy that would done three or four

00:30:58.340 combat deployments and you get this other inexperienced person saying ah no the i i'm going to do it my

00:31:03.060 way right and and you just you need to hear that two or three times and you you realize they've got

00:31:07.300 a giant ego and you realize that they're never going to listen anybody and most important you

00:31:11.140 realize that if this individual goes over into combat in a leadership position he's not going to

00:31:16.740 listen to anyone and he's going to get people killed sure and dude not only like and what's funny

00:31:21.780 is is the over inflated ego is actually a projection of insecurity so you know it's and dude a lot of

00:31:28.260 leaders talk about you know they think they got to have all the right answers and they think that

00:31:32.900 if they ask their team anything that that's showing like oh dude i'm weak leader but the truth of the

00:31:38.740 matter is it's actually showing that you're very secure in your authority and you look to your team

00:31:46.340 for the answers because dude it doesn't matter how smart you are there's going to be shit that comes up

00:31:50.420 that you don't know especially when you're dealing with well when you're dealing with your subordinate

00:31:54.900 leadership they're on the front lines every day right they they know and see things that you don't

00:31:58.900 know and you don't see so when a dynamic situation occurs and you haven't been in that sector for a

00:32:05.380 little while and now you're supposed to have the answer or you jump in and you start giving orders

00:32:09.860 well people are thinking well you haven't even been here right how do you know what's going on down

00:32:13.300 here whereas if you came in and said hey listen guys haven't been here in a while i know this is a

00:32:17.700 dynamic situation what do you think we should do here like you just said that's not a sign of weakness

00:32:22.420 it's actually a sign of strength yeah dude i always tell people i'm like look dude being a

00:32:25.700 great leader is not about having the answers it's about figuring out what the best answer is

00:32:30.180 and putting it into play and guess what a lot of times the best answer is not going to come from

00:32:34.180 your own fucking noggin absolutely yeah it's going to come from the dudes out there doing the work

00:32:38.340 absolutely so in real practical terms how do you when you take the people who are

00:32:43.700 you know have the big egos but maybe not so much that it's that it's not correctable and then on the

00:32:49.300 other end you have the people who are really second guessing themselves and maybe overly humble

00:32:54.020 describe for us like how you get both ends to the middle you know this is a remedy that i have

00:33:01.300 that's a that's a common remedy that i use to cure a lot of leadership problems and that is when i get

00:33:06.980 someone in a situation like that i put them in charge of something i will take someone and and so with

00:33:13.700 when i have someone that has their egos get maybe getting a little out of control they think they're a

00:33:17.460 little bit better than they are they need to get put in check i'm going to put them in charge of

00:33:20.900 something and what i put them in charge of is going to be something that is outside their capacity to

00:33:26.180 execute properly it's above their skill level so when they go and they take charge they're of course

00:33:31.700 beating their chest like yeah i should have been running this the whole time and then they then

00:33:35.700 they actually get in that situation where they're supposed to be running it and they they fail because

00:33:41.540 they don't know what they're doing and it was all in their head that they were so great so they're

00:33:46.820 either there's two things that's going to happen either they're going to fail and they're going to

00:33:49.860 come back with their tails between their leg and and you'll explain to them hey it looks like you

00:33:54.660 weren't quite as good as you thought you were right or before they fail you're going to come up to them

00:33:58.900 they're going to come to you and say hey listen i'm not quite as good as i thought i was can you

00:34:02.260 give me some help and and in either one of those situations they just got put in check their ego got put in

00:34:07.700 check they got humbled a little bit and that's positive now if i get someone that's not confident

00:34:11.620 so other end of the spectrum what i'm going to do is i'm going to also put that person in charge of

00:34:15.780 something but i'm going to put them in charge of something that i know that they can do and i know

00:34:19.300 they can do well and they're going to they you might actually have to kick that person in the ass a

00:34:24.100 little bit and say hey look no you can do it come on you can make this happen and they come to

00:34:27.380 you and say hey what do you think i should do here hey go figure it out you you might have to

00:34:32.180 urge them along but when they get done they'll do it they'll do it successfully and then they're

00:34:37.300 confidence will be increased and you keep keep them on that track keep building their confidence

00:34:40.980 giving them harder and harder things along the way what's cool about those two things is as i'm

00:34:46.180 sitting here listening to that that i really like about that method is that both a lot of times when

00:34:52.420 guys who are leaders and they get someone who's too egotistical or too confident and they start

00:34:57.460 causing you know issues with that they'll just fire them what i like about your solution on that is that

00:35:03.940 it's actually development of both sides right like you know you know what i'm saying yeah like

00:35:09.140 a lot of leaders will just fire that dude who's getting too egotistical and too cocky or they'll

00:35:13.300 fire that guy who just can't make a decision and the truth is that's your failure as a leader to see

00:35:18.740 where they can develop and what i like about that solution so much is that because your your goal

00:35:24.740 your goal as the ceo of a company where you have employees should be to develop them as much as you

00:35:33.220 can and a lot of guys won't develop people because they're like well dude i don't have a place for that

00:35:37.380 guy well guess what that's okay because if he comes to your company and he progresses and he he outgrows

00:35:44.020 your company and goes and takes a better job guess what you did you just created an advocate for you and

00:35:50.020 your company that will talk positively to every single person at that company guess what you

00:35:54.980 just gained a whole bunch of new customers and so what happens and that's worst case scenario but

00:36:00.020 what's probably going to happen is he's going to progress your company's going to do better and

00:36:04.900 you're going to be able to afford to keep them meaning aka your company grows you know and i think

00:36:09.940 that that solution that you have is so great because dude it perpetuates growth you know what i mean

00:36:15.380 and even if it's i truly believe dude if you do right by people good shit happens to you and um

00:36:22.660 people will you know they like to poke holes and say yeah but yeah but yeah but that one time but

00:36:27.300 we're talking about the fucking average here the average of shit is that if you do the right thing

00:36:32.500 and you treat people good and you have their best interests in mind and you help them develop they

00:36:37.460 99 of the time are going to pay you back with goodwill for sure question what about somebody that is in

00:36:43.620 the middle in that hat that you see a lot of potential in but they're okay with being like

00:36:47.940 a cog in the system hey if that's if that's where someone's at and that's what they want to do with

00:36:52.500 their life then i'm going to get the most out of them i can i'm going to try and develop them as much

00:36:56.500 as i can and they reach a point you know that happens right there's people that they've got they

00:37:01.620 settle in they settle in and you know i'm going to talk to them about it and i'm going to say listen

00:37:06.420 here's where you're at right now and you know a lot of times people don't think about the future as much

00:37:12.180 as they should and so i'll have that conversation with them as well and say okay you know i understand

00:37:18.820 that you're comfortable right now you're working nine to five you don't want to put in the extra

00:37:22.100 hours you don't want you don't want any more responsibility because managing people is hard

00:37:25.860 you just want to keep doing what you're doing i get that i know your kids are young or your

00:37:30.260 wife is sick i mean people have things going on in their life and they need to focus on other things

00:37:33.940 hey i just want to let you know that if you work hard right now for the next three years and you

00:37:42.260 step up and you take this leadership role that means five years down the road you could be

00:37:48.260 financially set for life that could have built a real career you could build a real career you could

00:37:54.420 be at a position of authority where you won't have to do as much and you can spend more time but

00:37:59.540 you're gonna have to invest in your in in what we're doing right now so i just want to make sure

00:38:03.700 that you understand that and you know and then people will say look i get it but guess what i

00:38:08.820 don't want that kind of stress in my life what i want is to get my paycheck i want a nine to five

00:38:13.540 i want to be able to go home to my kids yep and you know what dude respect that's fine right exactly

00:38:18.180 i don't unlimited potential is not for everybody right right so when i have somebody like that what i'm

00:38:23.940 going to do i'm going to get all i can out of them and like like you just said andy i'm still going to

00:38:28.500 take care of them right i don't i don't know you don't look less on yeah don't look less on i

00:38:32.180 actually respect that totally i respect when people are honest with me about that because

00:38:36.100 dude what what happens is and this happened this happens you know a lot to to us dude i'll see

00:38:41.940 potential in someone and i said dude this guy could run this this guy could take this this guy could own

00:38:47.140 this and i and i try to get them to do it right and they're not doing it and then the guy comes to me

00:38:52.100 and he says um you know hey dude look i got kids here i got this i'm at this point in my life

00:39:01.140 and they're honest with me about it dude i respect that but what i don't respect is whenever i say

00:39:05.780 that to them they're like yeah yeah yeah yeah go i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it and then they

00:39:09.380 don't fucking do it otherwise that makes me hate them and then i'm like dude fuck this guy and i'm

00:39:13.940 getting a new guy you know what i'm saying that's a definite problem because there's there's uh

00:39:17.460 trust because i'm relying on that dude i take people at their word like if you tell me you want

00:39:20.900 that then i say i believe you so let's work on it and then i'm putting energy and and and coaching

00:39:26.820 and all this stuff into them and they're just dragging their feet yep yeah so what do you do

00:39:30.820 with a cog that you have to constantly micromanage well this is where this is where i was just going

00:39:34.180 to go with this because there's a dichotomy with this as well which is and and it's a dichotomy

00:39:38.820 with extreme ownership of people say okay if and you just said this too andy hey if i get someone

00:39:43.540 that's not doing what i need them to do that's my fault right that's a great attitude to have

00:39:47.140 what can i do to fix them what can i do to mentor them what can i do to coach them that those are

00:39:51.380 great things to think about now sometimes you invest in someone the coaching the mentoring the

00:39:56.860 training you do what you can and they don't they they are not capable of doing what it is you need

00:40:02.680 them to do and at a certain point you're investing into them you're you're expending your time on them

00:40:08.600 instead of on someone else and they're detracting from the success of the team now this is a problem

00:40:14.640 and this is where your loyalty to that individual because we build loyalty with our team right we're

00:40:20.480 loyalty to them to each individual on the team we build loyalty with them but if we have somebody

00:40:25.560 that's dragging down the team our loyalty to the team trumps the loyalty to the individual

00:40:31.200 every time yes and and by the way as well if andy's working for me and andy's slacking and andy's not

00:40:39.740 pulling his weight and i'm letting it slide and i'm letting it slide and i'm letting it slide

00:40:43.640 what does the whole rest of the team lose respect the rest of the team loses respect for me they then

00:40:49.140 they start to slack i mean it's just it's an it's a dysfunctional situation so you have to and these

00:40:54.320 are hard conversations that's a hard situation because people you can literally ruin the culture

00:41:01.780 of your company by letting someone stay who isn't doing their job is a it is a culture killer right

00:41:08.160 for sure because then nobody trusts you as a leader and then they start taking advantage of

00:41:14.220 you oh yeah yeah and they're like fuck it i don't have to do it either and then all of a sudden dude

00:41:17.980 you got a whole group of otherwise high performers performing at the lowest common denominator it's an

00:41:25.260 awful situation so there comes a point where as a leader you've done what you can you've you've

00:41:30.980 invested as much as you can and you have to be straightforward with that person you know that's

00:41:34.980 what makes us feel guilty as a leader is when we go and fire someone and we haven't given the right

00:41:39.000 yeah counseling we haven't been straightforward with them and we're just going in and firing them

00:41:42.760 like no look man i talked to you for the last four months right or whatever different businesses have

00:41:48.020 different time cycles you know i work with construction companies there if they miss a date

00:41:52.200 on a job they're gonna they're gonna it's gonna cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars

00:41:55.540 so they have three four five days to figure out you know what this guy's not working here's your

00:41:59.880 warning here's your okay here's your warning you need to fix this by like tomorrow right and then

00:42:04.860 tomorrow they don't fix it okay look i told you yesterday to fix this it's not fixed you got another

00:42:08.500 day and you're not going to be working here so that happens and other companies like a like a sales

00:42:13.720 type company there's a longer window usually to get someone up to speed to try and train them

00:42:19.080 and and hopefully they can get up to speed that that might take six months but if after six months

00:42:25.080 you're still pouring you know assets and resources into this person and they're not performing where

00:42:29.980 they need to be yep it's time for you to make the hard decision as a leader talk to them and say look

00:42:34.400 man uh sales isn't for you this isn't going to work is there anything else you that you think you

00:42:38.440 might be able to do here because this isn't going to work right and dude the dichotomy there too as a

00:42:42.700 leader is when to pull the trigger for sure you know what i'm saying it's like how long are are you

00:42:47.960 going to coach this guy versus you know because some leaders come in they just fucking fire the dude

00:42:52.420 yep you know and then if you do that the problem is is that you never develop anybody and you're

00:42:56.860 constantly spinning your wheels at the base level right for sure you bring in the new guy the new

00:43:01.440 guy doesn't have any skills you fire the new guy for not having any skills you bring in another guy

00:43:06.100 the guy doesn't have any and it's just constantly repeating itself but then you have the other kind

00:43:10.120 of leader who lets the dude who isn't developing stay because dude he really cares about his people

00:43:16.420 he cares so much that he doesn't want to have that conversation and then that guy the leader

00:43:22.400 lets that guy do exactly what we just said where he he brings down the skill level of everybody else

00:43:29.000 the care level of everybody else and now you've got a real fucking problem because you just fucked

00:43:34.320 yourself by loving this dude too much but what happens i got this big smile on my face because

00:43:39.120 like i can see the light in your head is just like so bright you know why bro that's because i've done

00:43:43.440 that yeah i've done both of those and what's awesome is as i started off talking about the dichotomy

00:43:48.320 leadership when you realize this yeah now once you see it now you go okay i've let this person be

00:43:54.800 here too long this is not good for me i'm not being a strong leader i need to get rid of this person

00:43:59.700 and and you can make that or you can say like look i want to fire this guy right now but i haven't put

00:44:05.040 any effort into it you can you can scale it back and you can look and you can balance these two

00:44:09.880 dichotomies because that's what they are it's so i would say that that dichotomy is the one that i've

00:44:15.080 struggled with the most knowing when to say hey dude this just isn't going to work and you know

00:44:20.240 what helped me figure that out was uh looking well first of all i made that same mistake like 10 times

00:44:26.360 in a row okay so let's just be real um and and i think what figured it out for me what made me

00:44:33.520 become the because i was the guy who like just let the guy stay too much you know what i mean now i was

00:44:38.380 never a quick fire the first time i had to fire someone dude i fucking cried like i fuck because

00:44:42.960 dude i love these dudes you know what i'm saying but this guy i remember his name was eric and he

00:44:47.520 was just never gonna make it like it was just never gonna make it i couldn't dude i didn't have the

00:44:52.200 skills to develop them and i don't honestly i don't think i could have developed them to be effective

00:44:56.100 here and i remember dude i felt fucking terrible like i cried on the way home like for real like big

00:45:00.900 260 pound dude with a beard crying in his fucking truck you know i'm saying uh but and i'm not ashamed

00:45:07.820 to say that because dude i care about my people yeah but um what made me realize to quit doing that

00:45:13.540 was that because i do truly care about them was that i was holding those individuals back from

00:45:19.840 finding success elsewhere by keeping them yeah and that's that's another point is where again i talk

00:45:27.020 about these hard conversations and a lot of people in leadership positions have trouble telling people

00:45:33.500 what they're doing wrong and and counseling them and letting them know and that is actually so having

00:45:38.340 a hard conversation is the worst thing you can possibly do is is not tell someone like if you're

00:45:42.360 screwing up and i don't come and tell you hey andy the way you're doing this isn't working and i just let

00:45:46.300 it go and there's a paradox there let it go the reason i'm not the reason you're not telling me is

00:45:50.400 because i'm your boy and we hang out and you care about me but the truth is yes is that you're not

00:45:55.580 telling me yes because you care and if i truly cared about you i would tell you exactly so you could fix

00:46:02.200 yourself dude i have this saying that i say all the time is like being nice is not being nice

00:46:06.740 being nice is telling the fucking truth you know everybody thinks like being nice is like letting

00:46:13.140 someone get away with something or letting someone slide or letting them get away uh with not

00:46:18.060 developing their skills or a million other things but the truth of it is is if you really care and

00:46:22.380 dude some people will hate you for this by the way you know this yes like dude some people you tell

00:46:27.100 the truth to because you care will fucking hate you back for it now here's the dichotomy right here's

00:46:34.240 the dichotomy can you be too direct with people absolutely and the answer is yes and so what you

00:46:43.640 know if i come in i'm like andy you suck this is horrible and now you get pissed at me right and

00:46:50.480 now there's animosity as opposed to me saying andy look man the last project that you just ran

00:46:55.940 i mean you got it done and i appreciate it but i think there's a lot of things that i and and this

00:47:01.980 is where this is where taking ownership is a little bit of a jujitsu move right i come in and i say andy

00:47:06.660 you know that last project that you ran you got it done and and i appreciate that you did get it done

00:47:11.900 but when i look at it overall i think it could have been done a lot more efficiently and i think i let you

00:47:17.560 down i don't think i gave you the right type of guidance from your perspective looking back at it now

00:47:23.440 what do you think you could have gotten from me that would have made it run smoother and now you

00:47:28.540 open up you feel like i'm no it's vulnerability yeah it's i'm asking for criticism myself right and

00:47:33.300 what you'll you know what normally a person says like that to that they go look man to be honest

00:47:37.040 with you you gave me what i needed i dropped the ball here here and here that's right and you go oh man

00:47:41.740 okay well let's get you trained in that and instead of me just attacking you with the truth which is

00:47:46.420 like you drop the ball right and you suck right which is what i'm thinking in my head right instead i'm

00:47:52.260 saying hey man where did i let you down where they always own it they always own it yeah because

00:47:57.120 dude there's enough rapport there yeah like they care dude they do care there's times where uh

00:48:02.520 there's times where people say well you know if you take ownership and like if i said to you hey

00:48:08.280 andy i think i dropped the ball and didn't give you the right guidance what could i have done better

00:48:12.280 and you're like yeah you did drop the ball and some people are like what do i do now right and i'm

00:48:17.160 like you you actually are saying that not not to set the person up you're saying it because you

00:48:22.000 believed it right if you if i give you a project and you fail whose fault is it it's my fault actually

00:48:27.260 it's my fault i'm the guy it's in charge if i give you a project and you fail the project i need

00:48:32.700 to look at it and say i was asking that as a leader dude everything is my fault exactly yeah but when i

00:48:39.200 say something's my fault and you you know as your leader if i'm your leader and i say i work for you

00:48:43.920 yeah all right that's what he works for me and i say i say hey andy you screwed up this project

00:48:47.940 it's my fault and you go yeah you're right it is your fault i shouldn't be offended by that

00:48:53.100 i just because that's your fault too yes right i'm not that's the whole point right the whole

00:48:57.960 point is like i'm saying this was my fault if i don't actually believe that and i'm full of shit

00:49:01.720 well then that's that's that's that's you're gonna see right through that right right right

00:49:05.780 but if you if i say hey man this is my fault here's the mistakes i actually made that's a real

00:49:09.920 that you have to you the you have to be in a place to fucking really own that shit you have

00:49:15.820 to believe it you don't because you're not just saying it the weak leader will come in and fucking

00:49:19.180 try to set their dude up to say some shit and that's how they get thrown off right exactly so

00:49:23.200 like but dude i i just i know everything's my fault you know what i mean so like it's i think

00:49:29.620 that's the biggest quality of a leader is being able to check yourself and you know seeing if

00:49:34.440 you're doing everything there look man if you're in business long enough you're gonna figure

00:49:37.760 this shit out like everything is your fucking fault otherwise you won't be in business long

00:49:41.860 enough that's the truth yeah you know leaders that don't understand that they don't make it that far

00:49:46.880 to figure it out because you fucking your business goes out of business you know dude you deal with

00:49:51.760 all kinds of successful leaders you know what what would you say just to switch gears a little bit man

00:49:58.200 like a well-intended leader i mean because dude i you guys that can afford to pay what you charge

00:50:05.180 they're successful you know leaders so what would you say a well-intentioned leader the common

00:50:13.140 mistakes that you see made uh of a well-intentioned guy right not not a guy who's like a dictator but a

00:50:18.800 guy who's really making an effort what would you say the most common things are yeah so this is a

00:50:24.280 question i get asked a lot because people want to know like what's the thing they should work out

00:50:27.340 look out for right and the bottom line is it's the same thing that we've been talking about

00:50:31.320 what you and i were talking about earlier which is different people have different strengths and

00:50:34.080 weaknesses so when you go into a company that company will have different strengths and weaknesses

00:50:39.380 usually they're based on the strengths and weaknesses of the leader itself so if you've

00:50:43.960 got a leader that's not a very good communicator and he's not getting the word out to the front line

00:50:49.780 that that's that's a real problem and so that's one type of person you've got somebody else that's

00:50:55.700 that's a great great communicator but guess what they're not great at they're not great at

00:50:59.680 understanding their strategy they don't even know what their own real strategic vision is

00:51:03.620 and so when you go into a company you it could be so many varieties of things i'm not so many there's

00:51:09.660 like there's like a dozen things right like a guy's not a good communicator the troops on the

00:51:13.500 front line don't know what's going on it seems complicated yeah it's not yeah it's gonna be but

00:51:16.800 it's gonna be one of those things and usually they have complementary strengths and weaknesses

00:51:20.300 so they're really good at something but they're not so good at someone else at something else like

00:51:23.480 you get a guy that's a great visionary but he's not good at any of the details right so he's got

00:51:27.700 this great vision but none of the stuff is their operational execution is weak right so what do we

00:51:32.300 do in a situation like that well i like to tell that guy guess what you need to hire someone as

00:51:36.080 your number two that has operational execution as an expertise and boom that's going to bolster you up

00:51:41.820 and we'll we'll get this problem solved because it's not training somebody that's a visionary that

00:51:47.100 that has that type of mindset to become extra executional operational expert is very challenging

00:51:52.960 to do especially in a short period of time yeah it takes a long time right but bringing someone on

00:51:56.680 board that has that different attitude so the common problems are just those there's a there's

00:52:01.280 there's a variety of common problems so it's awareness problem it's well yeah that people

00:52:05.320 definitely have to be aware right but we're gonna find the different problems we're gonna figure out

00:52:09.940 what how to how to solve that problem it's gonna be a little bit different at every company yeah the

00:52:13.480 reason i say an awareness problem is a good leader who's got it figured out already knows

00:52:17.480 like hey what the fuck am i weak at like i know what i already know what i'm bad at yep right so i

00:52:22.280 surround myself like i'm bad at understanding technology so i have guys that i talk to every

00:52:27.420 day that that are great at that right um so i i already know to fill that in so uh so aware leaders

00:52:35.860 are going to know that right for sure be like and dude they're secure right because a lot of people

00:52:39.500 don't a lot of really uh guys struggle with with doing that because their own ego they're like well i

00:52:45.720 should know that you know and they won't they won't bring anybody in that knows what they know

00:52:49.380 yeah well that's that's an interesting point with my company is that so we get it brought into

00:52:54.800 companies for a variety of different reasons most of the time we get brought in because someone inside

00:53:00.660 the company is saying we need to get better at leadership and when that's why you're getting

00:53:05.700 brought into the company that means right out of the gate there there's some humility inside that

00:53:10.820 company they're thinking you know what and and this is also interesting which means they have the

00:53:15.580 skills to get better they have the skills to get better they have the open mind to get

00:53:19.220 better they have the humility to get better and by the way normally those companies that are

00:53:23.600 voluntarily bringing us into they're already doing they're already successful like you wanted me to

00:53:28.440 come and talk to your team today right i came and talked to your team your team is already kicking

00:53:32.460 ass but you're thinking hey how can we get better right so so that's what happens when good companies

00:53:38.520 bring us in their minds are open they want to get better the bad companies are like dude i'm not

00:53:42.940 paying that shit to bring it yeah and this is so what happens sometimes is let's say for instance

00:53:47.760 the board that owns a company hires us to go in and help help fix the leadership inside the company

00:53:56.500 so the attitude inside the actual company is hey we don't need help why are you here

00:54:03.100 and and by the way the reason that the board is bringing us in is not because the company is doing

00:54:08.400 well the reason the board is bringing us in is because the company is failing so this is what it tells you

00:54:12.900 a company that is humble the first companies that i talked about the companies most companies that we

00:54:16.880 work with that are doing well the re one of the core reasons that they're doing well is that

00:54:21.060 they're humble and they're constantly looking to where they can improve one of the reasons that

00:54:25.940 companies are failing is because they're not humble and they're not looking to where they can improve

00:54:29.920 and also on top of that the companies that are doing well they take ownership and they say you know

00:54:34.960 what we could be doing this better the companies that are doing poorly and failing it's never their

00:54:39.420 fault we go in there and say oh what's the market it's the economy it's the economy we've been doing

00:54:44.300 this for 50 years yep yeah it's the guys on the front line are lazy yep it's every it's millennials

00:54:49.120 it's everyone else's fault but it's never the leadership fault when the fact of the matter is

00:54:53.440 and i tell this to companies all the time every single problem that you have at a company or any

00:54:58.940 organization that you that you deal with every single problem that they have is a leadership

00:55:03.360 problem all of them absolutely all of them absolutely dude absolutely can i circle back

00:55:10.000 to your remedy of giving things uh giving people things to do so it seems like in order to execute

00:55:16.680 that you have to really really know your people so i the question that i had as you were talking

00:55:21.840 about it earlier was what is your method for sort of breaking down the game film of your of the

00:55:28.040 people who work with you of the people who are under your command i mean do you have specific

00:55:31.820 habits like how do you make your observations how do you how do you evaluate yeah yeah yeah

00:55:37.280 yeah well interestingly it's also the remedy like if i when i'm starting to figure out what people are

00:55:43.560 like when i when i bring someone onto my team guess what they're going to do they're going to run

00:55:47.140 something and we're going to see where that they're going to run something at first what are they

00:55:50.960 going to run they're going to run something that's pretty small they're not going to i'm not going

00:55:53.960 to send a guy like right now with echelon front i'm not going to send a guy out on his first gig

00:55:58.000 with a with a fortune 500 company that's already signing a big contract with us and say hey you

00:56:03.900 take this because that's an important client and i don't know where the guy's at what he's going to

00:56:07.840 do is he's going to go you know what he's going to do he's going to volunteer and do something for

00:56:11.780 free with a boys club in in minnesota that's right and we're going to send up out there and see how it

00:56:18.580 goes and get feedback and i might go with him and watch and and see where he's at or at least get video

00:56:24.100 and then talk to him hey what had happened hey you got asked this question and it stumped you you

00:56:28.580 got asked a question by a 12 year old kid and it stumped you that's not a good sign we need to work

00:56:33.480 on it we need to we need to train you more so when i get people coming on board what i'm going to do is

00:56:38.400 i'm going to i'm going to give them small tasks in the beginning that are less important i'm going to

00:56:43.440 assess and evaluate how they perform i'm going to i'm going to make adjustments course corrections on

00:56:49.340 their performance and then i'm going to give them something a little bit bigger and i'm going to give

00:56:52.480 them something a little bit bigger and then you know what i want them to do i want them to take

00:56:56.120 my job from me i want everybody that works for me to be get to a point where they can take my job

00:57:02.060 from me just like you did at supplement superstore that's right right like you probably maybe you

00:57:08.200 weren't consciously doing this but some party was going okay well there you go you're going you know

00:57:12.200 what somebody's going to have to run this for me right because i'm going to go do something else

00:57:15.880 i'm going to take one more step up there's people that through their ego they don't want to let

00:57:22.080 anyone else run their program right they're going to go as their little baby yep it's their baby they

00:57:27.380 don't want anyone else to touch it and you know what they do they stunt their own growth right so

00:57:31.600 i want everyone that works for me to get good enough to take my job that's my goal me too man

00:57:35.520 me too 100 you well yeah i mean dude this is an interesting topic because you know you got to

00:57:42.100 actually come to work to do that right yeah i have to actually come to work because you know i'm at

00:57:45.740 this place to where you know a lot of people that you know i don't want to say success because i'm

00:57:51.580 not successful one bit but you know i've i've made it developing i've made it to a point to where a lot

00:57:57.520 of people didn't think i would or you know i don't have a formal education or anything like that but

00:58:02.220 you know i'm definitely working on my leadership and that is you know for anybody out there that's

00:58:08.020 listening that you know might look up to me like you're gonna run into the ceiling of you have to be a

00:58:13.380 good leader to take that next step you have to develop the people underneath you to take over

00:58:18.340 your job in order for you to move up that's just that's the way it works especially inside an

00:58:22.500 organization you see a lot of that um at like the retail level where managers managers of a retail

00:58:29.900 store they don't they don't want to develop the guy because they're afraid to take a job but what

00:58:33.160 they don't realize is that that's the only way you're going anywhere it's the only way it's the only

00:58:37.860 way i had a situation like that working with a company and one of the leaders was not

00:58:43.340 developing his people and i said hey you know what and the ceo is kind of like hey what you

00:58:47.480 know what this guy's just not he's just he just keeps everyone below him and he won't develop them

00:58:50.940 and i said you know what next time you promote don't promote him and tell him why you don't

00:58:54.580 promote him and he goes well why and i said you tell him that there's no one to take your place so i

00:58:59.180 can't promote you it's the truth and it's the truth it is the truth i cannot in our retail

00:59:04.220 three or four guys ready to take yeah bro i can't fucking take you know a lot of these guys in our

00:59:09.060 retail company they're hungry to move they want us to open more stores they want us to do that

00:59:13.060 i'm like all right dude like i could take you and put you over here but what am i gonna do with

00:59:17.580 your store you know and then they're like well you can find no dude i gotta take one of your guys and

00:59:23.640 put them in that spot you know until that's until that's done i can't you're there people fail to

00:59:28.760 realize that like how to me that should be obvious you know but especially if you're looking at the

00:59:33.980 bigger picture i mean dude like i'm holding your brand your personal brand back right now by not

00:59:39.160 being good enough to develop i fucking tell you that all the time hey but at least i'm aware of

00:59:44.880 that complete your statement when you're holding the brand back by what because i can't put as much

00:59:50.280 effort into andy's brand as i should be able to because we use the same the same guys for first

00:59:55.340 form and my brand yeah so like tyler has to run first form so if he can't get the guys to do all

01:00:01.760 the shit that he was doing for first form we can't do as much stuff for personal brand gotcha what

01:00:05.680 makes sense which the truth of the matter is is we're getting to the point where we need two teams

01:00:09.220 that's that's the bottom line yeah but uh that's neither here nor there well that's also because

01:00:16.120 we still have a lot of room for improvement on on our team side how many people do you have on your

01:00:21.700 team uh five and are they ready to step up and take your place no and that's on me yeah yeah yeah if

01:00:30.040 you you should have you should be ready to split off those five guys into two teams that hire one

01:00:35.500 more guy each you got two teams of three and you got one working one element and one working the

01:00:40.020 other one and guess who's in charge of them both you you should be yeah if you have like if you want

01:00:45.840 to be if you would have asked him a year ago that okay if he would he would not have said that a year

01:00:50.820 ago he what he would have said is those guys don't want to fucking do work they don't want to do this

01:00:55.500 they don't want to do that and i'm i'm not that's a compliment to you not no i get it it's a yeah it's a

01:01:00.120 growth thing and and yeah and if your team the people on your team don't want to do work

01:01:04.900 whose fault is that it's mine of course 100 yeah yeah dude i

01:01:11.040 dude you're making progress you know what i'm saying well i know i can actually feel it a year

01:01:17.460 ago i shit you not he would have for sure said that's because they're fucking lazy or some shit

01:01:21.740 like that so and my brother's been working with him a lot so it's it's been showing the growth is

01:01:26.680 showing oh yeah so dude what do you think uh like i think i know the answer to this question

01:01:33.020 but i want to know what you think

01:01:34.840 what do you think the most underrated quality of leadership is

01:01:42.760 most underrated it's it's it's to me it's the most important quality to say i give this answer

01:01:51.400 all the time it's humility right dude i knew that's what it was going to be and

01:01:54.080 it that's just what it is right and and if you if you're not humble do you think it's because

01:01:58.880 like the way the way a ceo or a leader is painted in the in like in movies and shit like that because

01:02:04.980 they're always painted as a dude who has all the answers like dude captain america comes down he's

01:02:09.640 like do this do that do this do this and everybody just does the shit right like that's what people

01:02:13.920 think it's like or they think it's like you know the ceo sitting in a mile long uh wood table and

01:02:20.420 and he's like stevens you go do this uh you go do this bob you go do that and like he's just got

01:02:27.840 all the answers but that's not what it's like at all no and you know this was an answer that i even

01:02:32.800 again the first time i ever got interviewed was on the tim ferris podcast and he asked me what's

01:02:39.180 the most important quality for a leader and i said humility and people were really i guess kind

01:02:44.020 of surprised that that's what i said for the very reasons that you just stated is because most people

01:02:49.740 most people that are striving for leadership they you know this is what we talked about you have an

01:02:55.680 ego like you got an ego i've got an ego guess what i want to win an ego is not a bad thing no it's not

01:03:01.300 a bad thing it's a good thing and that's what drives you you wouldn't be where you are i wouldn't

01:03:04.420 be where i am right now if i didn't have an ego that didn't want to win right and that's why

01:03:08.720 that's why for a leader that characteristic is is an under appreciated because most people look

01:03:16.780 at it they go that guy wants to win and he's going to do everything and he's going to make

01:03:20.340 these things happen when reality a really good leader the reason they're winning is because they're

01:03:25.380 looking around going what can i do better now i'll tell you what was interesting i went up and

01:03:28.700 talked to some underprivileged kids and i actually had to flip this because as i sat there and looked

01:03:38.200 at these underprivileged kids from the inner city with broken homes guess what i saw i saw just total

01:03:45.820 lack of confidence with all these kids dude wait i talk about this so i i have a pot where i talk

01:03:52.320 about humility is overrated okay and people are like what the fuck does that mean blah blah blah you're

01:03:58.320 you're an egomaniac and it's for the exact reason that you said dude there's a there's a dichotomy

01:04:03.640 between ego look at me using the word now right dude i fucking love this because when i say that

01:04:10.200 people don't know what i mean that humility is underrated like they think like oh you're a huge

01:04:14.720 egomaniac no but you got to have an ego to fucking work and go try and do things and you got to have

01:04:21.220 confidence to to dream that big that you can do certain things and dude i find that people are either

01:04:27.340 there's very few people in the middle of that there's lots of people who think they're awesome

01:04:32.240 you know and then there's lots of people who think they're nothing and can't do anything

01:04:37.160 and so that's what i mean when i'm saying like dude humility is overrated like believe in yourself

01:04:41.880 you don't know you're the shit be a bad motherfucker you know what i mean and and i think for me

01:04:46.500 from working with companies like you said i'm working with companies these companies get these

01:04:51.280 ceos of these companies male and female they didn't get where they were by having a small ego

01:04:57.800 and being humble and that's why again when people ask me about it in the seal teams you don't you

01:05:03.700 don't become a leader in the seal teams by being a you know a little tiny dude little person so you've

01:05:09.720 got to be able to step up you've got to be at a minimum you've got to be confident with what you're

01:05:12.980 talking about and and that's why it's surprising to people but like you're saying there's there's people

01:05:19.180 out there that are at the other end of the spectrum that that's why it's a dichotomy there's people

01:05:23.220 that and when i saw these kids i mean just just a bunch of kids you know between the ages of like

01:05:28.100 8 and 15 there was not a shred of confidence they've never even seen success and in any way

01:05:34.680 exactly yeah and so what i was telling them well it's just like the simple things like okay hey kids

01:05:39.760 stand up and i was making them talk loud because people that aren't confident they they don't feel

01:05:46.760 comfortable talking loud and and you know what just like we talked about earlier in this podcast

01:05:50.760 you can get more comfortable talking loud you can get more comfortable talking in front of people

01:05:55.600 you can get more comfortable standing up straight and looking people in the eye those are things that

01:06:01.080 that especially younger kids that haven't really developed yet that's a big deal so when you say on

01:06:07.720 your podcast like hey don't be humble those are the people you're talking to right exactly all day

01:06:12.520 long and they need to hear it right and there's some people that don't have the confidence to step

01:06:17.040 up and and do a job those people exist the people you know and then there's some jackass out there

01:06:22.020 that hears you say that that's like that's right i'm the best ever right and and and and and and he

01:06:26.220 just told me i was the best ever and that i should go with that right like that person is going to

01:06:30.920 lose situational awareness isn't going to see the mistakes that they make isn't going to know that

01:06:35.720 they need to listen to other people and they're going to end up getting crushed yeah dude the the the way to

01:06:40.980 look at it like this is how i look at it right like i literally look at it as like a fuel gauge in

01:06:46.560 your car okay like it looks like you know uh it's a it's a looks like a half of a circle okay and on

01:06:52.260 the one side you got e and on the other side you got f all right and that needle let's just say on the

01:06:58.900 left you know it's e not for empty but for ego okay and then on the right it's h for humility all right

01:07:06.940 and and dude you should be this is where aware you said situational awareness this is where you have

01:07:12.440 to be aware this is where you have to know where your needle is at all times and so you know it's

01:07:19.540 okay sometimes for your e for the needle to go towards the e like for example dude i go and speak

01:07:26.280 in front of 20 000 people my fucking needle when i go on that stage is pinned to e it's actually far

01:07:33.300 okay but i let it get there and i try to get it there on purpose because dude if you can't go out

01:07:39.540 with that with your needle pinned to e you are not going to fucking move people and get them excited

01:07:45.080 and get them want to change it's going to be impossible you're going to go up there you're

01:07:48.980 going to be scared you're going to be you know stumbling over your words you know so i let it get

01:07:53.940 it to e there's other times when i'm sitting in a room with you who is the best in the world at what

01:07:59.420 you do in my opinion and and it's becoming more and more of a fact every day dude you know what i

01:08:04.600 do i don't sit here and think about how great of a leader i am i let that needle go all the way over

01:08:09.260 to h and i shut the fuck up and listen you know what i'm saying and that's that's what you have to

01:08:13.740 do man it's got to be i mean it's funny dude because we're sitting here talking and literally

01:08:19.060 everything we talk about is a dichotomy and like before i even got your book i didn't know what the

01:08:23.040 fuck that was you know so it's it's uh yeah those that's you just explained one of the key

01:08:30.100 dichotomies of leadership right that you can have too much ego and if you brought that attitude of if

01:08:35.860 you pinned out the e and you went to a a meeting with some of your team and they had feedback for

01:08:41.820 you and you were like you guys don't know what you're talking about we're gonna do it my way that

01:08:46.560 that ego would kill you yeah and at the same time if you went if you pinned it out on the h and you

01:08:51.480 went into your team and said hey guys i'm thinking about rolling about out this new product but i

01:08:55.400 don't really know if it's going to be successful i don't know if we have the the wherewithal to make

01:08:59.140 it happen well that's not going anywhere either oh so you gotta you gotta modulate and you gotta

01:09:03.780 stay balanced that's i think that's the hardest thing not just as a leader but as a person you know

01:09:09.000 what i mean like people people like you guys who are listening right now you know there's time

01:09:15.180 this is like the imposter syndrome almost like there's times and this is no bullshit there's times

01:09:20.900 where i feel like i'm fucking faking it right there's times when i feel like maybe i don't

01:09:25.980 know and you know what guess what all of us feel that way we all feel like hey we don't maybe we

01:09:31.620 don't know sometimes you just gotta fucking guess but the truth of it is is that being aware of where

01:09:37.420 you are in what situation and what's applicable and how dude that's the key man like that's the key

01:09:42.960 to growth of a company it's a key to growth of of your personal development i mean dude and and i feel

01:09:49.880 like from from and dude you speak to so many people as well you know i'd be interested to hear

01:09:55.680 what you think but i feel like people are are way more towards the h than they are the e and that's

01:10:04.580 what's keeping them where they are that's what i see like i i meet so many of these guys who dude

01:10:10.160 they've got a little business going and they're doing pretty good and like dude i just heard this

01:10:14.380 this weekend this guy who's making everybody in our group's making a lot of money dude this guy's

01:10:18.180 making over a million dollars a year and he's like he's telling me right to my face he's like

01:10:23.580 he's making a million not the fucking company selling a million this guy's making a million

01:10:27.480 dollars and he looks at me he's like dude i just don't know if i have what it takes to hit the next

01:10:32.340 level what the fuck are you talking about bro you've already built this to a million dollars why

01:10:36.360 can you not make it a hundred million or a billion you can fucking have it most people say that at like

01:10:40.280 50k i know but that's the reason he's been able to make a million yeah because of that attitude but so

01:10:44.900 i gotta give him a little kick and be like bro you need to get over a little to the e a little bit

01:10:47.880 right you know that's this is exactly what we're talking about this is the dichotomy this is the

01:10:52.840 dichotomy and and there's situations there's people that get to a certain point and i know you've seen

01:10:58.640 this too and i have too like there's people that are maniac egomaniacs and it gets them going oh yeah

01:11:04.580 i mean they get they make they make a bunch of money right and they and then what happens when it

01:11:09.100 comes time to go to the next level yeah they don't make it because somebody comes along and says

01:11:13.280 hey instead of selling this you should also sell that and they go i've been doing this for 14 years

01:11:17.520 you don't know what you're talking about yeah right or you know maybe you should i mean look at look at

01:11:21.700 look at blackberry right look at uh blockbuster blockbuster could have bought netflix at some

01:11:28.160 point yeah and they didn't kill them yeah yeah because they were like hey no we're gonna have

01:11:32.420 we got people coming in blockbuster yeah we're blockbuster yeah so we're we're we're america on saturday

01:11:37.680 night bro like you can't fuck with us and like that's what killed him that's what dude i was sitting in a

01:11:42.700 room i i did the math i was sitting in a room uh at dan fleischman's speaking event with uh in a group

01:11:50.160 and that we were in the green room and in the green room the collective net worth was about three

01:11:54.600 billion dollars all right and i'm sitting in the room and dude everybody is crushing everybody and

01:12:02.580 dude you would not believe the shit that they were saying like everybody would think like they were in

01:12:05.920 there like i believe it but like everybody else would think like they were in there like telling

01:12:09.580 everybody like how good they were this or that everybody in there was like look i don't know man

01:12:14.500 i kind of feel like i got lucky like like i don't you know like they're totally and it wasn't fake it

01:12:20.060 was like you know i had a guy i had a guy who sold this company for a billion dollars asking me he's like

01:12:25.040 andy i don't know man like i know we did this but what do you think about this i'm like fuck dude you

01:12:29.740 shouldn't be asking me you know what i'm saying like but it's just an example of what we're talking

01:12:33.960 about the people who who who are the most successful are able to learn and they're they

01:12:39.240 become students of learning and the only way to learn is to put that needle over to the h man

01:12:44.180 and shut the fuck up you know something to tie into that one of the best leadership qualities and

01:12:49.040 in team development qualities i've ever learned from you was even if you do have the answer and

01:12:54.620 someone comes up to you with a question what's what's the question you what's the answer you give

01:12:59.560 them always 100 of the time i'll say what do you think what do you think you know same exact thing

01:13:06.640 i do yeah so in fact my guys come to me and say hey hey jaco here's this mission you know how do

01:13:11.200 you think we should do it i'd be like go figure it out come back and tell me yeah dude because that's

01:13:15.500 a confidence builder right because most of the time they know yeah they're gonna get it somewhat

01:13:19.640 right they're gonna get it close and maybe give them a little adjustment but yeah we'll get close

01:13:23.720 yeah i learned that from my dad by the way let's you met my dad yeah so my dad's like oh gee

01:13:28.660 uh but but dude it's funny because um you were mentioning the hit how it doesn't change over

01:13:35.000 over time like this is one skill that does not evolve and it does not change we're dealing with

01:13:39.680 human beings so human beings and and it's interesting too dude because like you said

01:13:47.180 millennials earlier and i am like super pro millennial and and so many guys they make dude you've heard all

01:13:55.160 this shit millennials are fucking lazy they are this or that dude well how the fuck do you explain

01:13:58.940 my company because i have 200 employees here and five of them you saw them are not millennials so how

01:14:05.220 do you explain that it doesn't change you know that's just an excuse that people lose but my dad

01:14:10.680 you know he was uh he would he would dude my dad would like tell us this he's like look like he would

01:14:16.140 tell me this you know when we first started getting employees he's like dude the best thing you can do

01:14:19.720 let me tell you the secret to leadership this is all it is just ask them what they think like dude

01:14:24.740 that's what that's what he told and i'm like dad that is not a leader i've seen leaders that's not

01:14:29.040 what they do you know what he was right your dad was right yeah your dad was right you know when people

01:14:33.780 people ask me how to get buy-in which is a big thing oh i can't get people to buy-in well ask them

01:14:39.000 how they want to do it yeah and then it's their plan they bought into it yeah done and you know what's

01:14:42.800 interesting about getting buy-in too is that you don't always have to do their plan a lot of times

01:14:47.720 i i would say most of the time you tell me what you think but i would say most of the time they

01:14:51.980 just want their idea heard they don't actually need to have their idea chosen they just want to

01:14:57.160 be heard they don't want to be directed like you know uh like a bunch of little thing like a little

01:15:03.260 robots they just want to be heard yeah so like you ask your team you got 10 guys there you ask each

01:15:07.520 one hey what do you think we should do what happens is is you start at chair one hey what do you

01:15:12.020 think you should do and the guy says well i think we should do that and you ask the next guy well i think we

01:15:15.980 should do most of that but i think we should change this and this and the third yes the third guy he's

01:15:20.080 gonna say you know what i like both those ideas but you know what about this by the time the

01:15:23.600 motherfuckers get done and they go all the way around the table the idea is there the idea is there and

01:15:27.180 now everybody's bought in you know it's not that hard absolutely absolutely i see people fighting all

01:15:35.460 the time over they have you know my idea versus your idea both the ideas are fine yeah and they want

01:15:40.900 to fight over it right and and it's totally worthless yeah messes up the relationship and

01:15:45.160 finally when i say you know what andy i'm in charge you do what i told you to do it's a disaster you go

01:15:49.380 in the field and you just you're gonna say you're gonna sabotage it right you're not even gonna do

01:15:53.420 the idea because you want the idea to fail to shove it down the other dude's throat exactly yeah dude

01:15:58.040 and that's that really is a culture problem like now what we're talking about is two guys who

01:16:04.140 dude i do this sal and i do this sometimes like because we're brothers all right people ask like what's it

01:16:09.460 like to work with your brother this is what it's like we both want to win so fucking bad

01:16:14.400 and we both believe that we're right that we actually lose sight of the of the bigger mission

01:16:20.160 sometimes and usually ends in a fist fight so it ends like two gorillas fucking beating each other

01:16:24.420 up in the like it was what about a month ago a month ago yeah so like what the fuck yeah by once a

01:16:29.920 year it gets into a we're getting into a fight and uh but really the truth is is that's a time where we

01:16:35.140 should step back say look dude we both want to win all right your idea is good my

01:16:39.420 idea is good which one are we gonna do yep you know and you know what i'm gonna do in those

01:16:42.980 situations i'm going with the other person's idea if i if i'm even if i have that opportunity if

01:16:48.220 you're as long as your idea isn't just garbage right if it's close if it's gonna get the mission

01:16:52.140 done we're doing it your way yeah that that's a good way for me to prove to you that like hey i

01:16:55.640 trust you yeah i'm humble i listen to you good point and you have buy-in and and you're gonna work

01:17:00.700 so hard especially if we went if we if you know i didn't really 100 agree and i want to do my way but

01:17:05.500 i gave it to you you're gonna get out there and bust your ass to make it work that's right and

01:17:09.320 that's what i want yeah that's awesome i love that that see that helps me just now for real like you

01:17:14.980 just helped me become a better leader anytime i can anytime we can anytime a subordinate comes to me

01:17:19.900 that has a plan of any kind and that's my goal is to get that thing executed the way they're doing it

01:17:24.880 yeah because it's just a win across the board yeah because they like you said they are going to

01:17:28.880 make sure you know that it works not to mention but the leader might not actually see the full

01:17:34.020 vision that the other person has this is true the leader sometimes doesn't know the details that

01:17:40.300 are happening in the front lines and so that's why it's important to pay attention to what they're

01:17:44.160 saying also dichotomy the frontline troops don't always see what the vision the big the big picture

01:17:51.000 and so you have to marry those two things together and that's why you come up with not just whose

01:17:57.000 idea you come up with the best idea that's something that i think for us um

01:18:01.520 i people ask like how have we gotten first form to do what it's been able to do uh because dude we

01:18:10.500 started with nothing i mean i i was picking up product literally in the back of my pickup truck

01:18:15.280 and storing it in my garage that's that's how it was um you know we didn't have investors we didn't

01:18:20.700 have you know people who you know by that time my dad had made and lost his money we didn't have

01:18:25.500 people to give us money it wasn't it wasn't an option um the the best thing that i've been i think

01:18:32.900 that we've been good at and people ask like how have we done this i think it's this i've been i and

01:18:38.560 i'm gonna give myself some credit which i don't usually do but dude i've been really good at painting

01:18:43.620 the fucking vision like making sure these guys understand what the big vision here is what the

01:18:48.780 scope of it is and so many leaders um and i don't even like to call them leaders i call them business

01:18:54.220 owners because they're not leaders all they care about is how much money they're making

01:18:58.300 and they can't figure out like they look at us and they say well dude how the fuck are you guys doing

01:19:02.940 this and i look at them and i'm like dude it's pretty obvious like all you give a shit about is

01:19:08.820 how much money you make and you haven't painted a big enough vision to where every single other

01:19:13.960 human that works for you can find a place underneath that vision to be successful yeah just like just

01:19:20.920 like life if you're in life if you always go for the short-term gratification yeah then your long-term

01:19:27.820 goal is going to suffer is going to suffer yeah it just like in business if your immediate gratification

01:19:33.560 is we want money and you're not looking at the long-term strategic because because let's face it

01:19:38.100 the decisions that you make today for immediate gratification of cash are not generally in the

01:19:44.440 best interest the best interest of the long-term strategic uh movement of the company dude what was cool

01:19:49.140 and i know you probably thought this was cool too when you were talking to the team and you said dude

01:19:53.160 our goal at echelon front is to help people i don't care that the book is called dichotomy of leadership

01:19:59.360 and andy doesn't understand what that means what i care is that the material in that book is going to

01:20:05.360 help people and what did i do yeah you turned around looked at you looked at the team and said what

01:20:11.320 are we here to do and everyone said we're here to help people that's right and if that's your goal

01:20:15.440 the other things are going to fall into place in this case the you know with echelon front like we

01:20:19.840 write a book we are our purpose and going out and working with companies is to help those companies

01:20:24.520 win that's right what's a byproduct we get paid money get paid and you go out and help people get

01:20:29.720 in better physical condition and make them healthier what's the byproduct you get paid we get paid dude

01:20:35.420 i thought i i'm so glad you were here to witness that because i talk about that concept so much and

01:20:41.140 people will hit me up and they're like dude you're just saying that shit because it sounds good

01:20:44.900 no i'm not i literally all i talk about within these walls and and a lot of people they don't

01:20:51.680 believe it because they're not here to see it but all we talk about is how we can help people get

01:20:56.240 better results how can we help people lose that weight how can we help people become more confident

01:21:00.520 how can we help them in any way anyway dude we had a we had a guy calling these spark plugs our dude

01:21:06.840 fucking got him spark plugs you know what i'm saying how can that's true how can we help them and dude

01:21:12.400 that's why we're successful and that's it that's any business too you know but dude it is business

01:21:17.480 that's all you're doing all you're doing is trading some sort of help for money that's it you're trading

01:21:23.320 you know uh cleaning someone's house you're trading of somebody designing a logo that's going to help

01:21:30.500 you i mean dude it's just trading it's boring it's fucking simple like i am not a smart person and i

01:21:38.020 understand this concept the only reason i'm able to execute this concept is because i don't

01:21:42.520 complicate it you know what i mean yeah the first 10 years i was in business i wanted money i wanted

01:21:47.240 to make money i want to be rich i want to be a baller blah blah blah guess what i was fucking broke

01:21:51.280 when i had to figure out how to you know i had i had a little time where i'm like fuck dude i'm not

01:21:57.800 making any money doing this i had to think about what i want to do i could go back and work

01:22:00.560 construction i could pour concrete ah fuck that i want to do that shit you know i could make some

01:22:04.460 money doing that i don't want i literally made less money than than i would make a mcdonald's

01:22:08.160 working at our company and um i was like you know what i do like helping people it's pretty cool when

01:22:14.700 someone leaves and they come back six months later lost 100 pounds that's cool i like that you know

01:22:19.920 what we're gonna do more of that and guess what guess what happened we started doing more of that

01:22:23.840 we fucking made money man it's not that hard you know uh people complicate it man i just i don't

01:22:32.680 know dude like i could sit here and talk to you for fucking days about business and life and you

01:22:39.060 know all this shit i just dude i just want to tell you man you really are helping people appreciate

01:22:45.000 like this building that we're in uh the people that you met they would not exist if it wasn't for

01:22:50.060 the shit that you're doing that's the truth i appreciate it man yeah it's uh it's awesome to

01:22:55.160 come to this company come to other companies that i work with and and meet people all around the

01:22:59.640 world you know they they read the book they listen to my podcast and they reach out and they get they

01:23:05.620 get helped and so that's to me that's the reward yeah i know you get to see it you know um and people

01:23:11.200 tell you that but like what you just did like those were all younger people you know like you're truly

01:23:18.460 helping people bro and i'm i'm just super grateful for it you know and i know like you know we have

01:23:23.920 competing podcasts and like you know we're all you know i want to win i want to fucking beat you in

01:23:29.740 podcast ranking you know i'm saying and i know you're the same but the truth of the matter is dude

01:23:33.680 if you listen to the show and you're not listening to his show you're missing out dude you guys should

01:23:37.140 all go to his show and subscribe you should all be you know participating and bringing friends to his

01:23:42.040 show and doing the same thing you do for this one because it's it's real shit it's the real life

01:23:47.060 how to win how to be successful how to move people and uh we're just saying a little bit different

01:23:51.880 way and i i love that about you bro indeed man well i appreciate it yeah so uh dude with that being

01:23:58.760 said um guys if you're listening please do what i just asked and go to his show give him a follow

01:24:05.280 on instagram and make sure you're consuming his content and make sure that you buy uh the dichotomy

01:24:11.700 of leadership when it comes out and i'm not just you guys know i don't pitch shit i don't i don't ask

01:24:16.660 you to buy things unless they're good because i don't want to violate that trust um this is a

01:24:21.860 book that you have to read uh when does the book come out september 25th okay so we got like a

01:24:26.600 couple weeks can you pre-order yeah you can pre-order yeah so in fact if you want to get it

01:24:31.140 when it comes out you should pre-order it because otherwise it'll be back sold out that's right

01:24:34.860 so uh dude thanks again man i appreciate it it's been one of my absolute favorite shows uh that we've

01:24:41.240 done and uh just thank you thanks for having me on and thanks for what you're doing kicking ass in

01:24:47.560 the world giving stuff away for free giving away as much knowledge as you can trying to help people

01:24:52.480 and i can see that's coming back but the real reward is seeing that you're helping people all

01:24:56.760 over the world so keep kicking ass brother i appreciate it brother

01:24:59.520 you

REAL AF with Andy Frisella - March 09, 2020

12. Throwback： LEADERSHIP： The Dichotomy It Takes To Dominate, Ft. Jocko Willink

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