Real Coffee with Scott Adams - Episode 1351 Scott Adams： Chauvin Verdict Hot Take

00:00:00.000 afternoon, so I'm not going to do a full simultaneous sip, but I did bring my coffee

00:00:04.860 just in case you had yours. Now, we're going to talk about this case and see if we can save the

00:00:12.980 country at the same time. Are you ready? But first, join me now for the unparalleled pleasure,

00:00:20.620 the dopamine hit, second one of the day. It's called the simultaneous sip. I think you'll like

00:00:25.040 it. Go. Yeah, now we're ready to talk about the case. Well, as you know, the jurors have found

00:00:35.380 Chauvin guilty on everything. He's guilty on all the counts. And I want to give you my reaction to

00:00:45.500 it. We'll let a few more people come in here. And I would like to start out with the jury.

00:00:52.220 I would like to thank the jury. Quite sincerely, as one citizen to 12 other citizens plus some

00:01:02.020 alternates, thank you. Like legitimately, thank you. Because I didn't want to do that. And I don't

00:01:09.100 think many of you would want to be in the shoes of the jury who had to take that on. So from the

00:01:14.820 bottom of my heart, thank you. Now I've said that, said this before, that if you've never served on a

00:01:22.720 jury, you need to do it. You need to do it. Because the feeling you get when you serve on a jury is that

00:01:29.980 you, you've sort of, you gain an appreciation for the system that you just can't get from watching it

00:01:37.400 from the outside. It gives you this whole buy-in feeling you're American, feeling that you may,

00:01:43.200 you know, that the citizens do have some control over the process, etc. So by all means,

00:01:49.600 you should serve jury duty at least once. Very serious advice. And thank you to the jurors. I

00:01:56.880 took a look at, there was some sort of horrible doxing list of who the jurors were. Now it didn't

00:02:05.040 have names and addresses. It just described them sort of generally. And I have to say that having

00:02:09.780 read that this morning, I thought to myself that we were in good hands. That the jury, based on their

00:02:16.680 answers, based on the types of jobs they had, their experience, their age, I thought it was a pretty

00:02:22.680 good jury. And I think the defense did an excellent job of picking a credible jury. Now, had things

00:02:31.380 gone the other way, it would have been a really good situation, because they looked pretty credible.

00:02:38.080 There was a moment at the end of the proceedings, when the judge was dismissing the jury today,

00:02:45.540 after he had read the verdict. And I suppose this is a, the routine procedure. But I don't know if you

00:02:53.660 caught this. Just this little moment, where the judge releases the jury, and he says, please stand

00:03:02.220 for the jury. You know, please stand for the jury. And I thought, that really is exactly the right

00:03:10.260 ceremony, if you will. That by that point in the case, there's nobody who deserved more respect

00:03:19.480 than the jury. And I just like that that's part of the system. You know, just stand for the jury.

00:03:26.260 So, number one, do I agree with the jury verdict?

00:03:35.740 Does it matter? I would say that if you, if I were to make a decision based on what I know,

00:03:43.380 it might have gone a different way. But what they watched was this much, you know, this is how much

00:03:49.280 they paid attention. And this is how much I paid attention. So, because I respect the system,

00:03:56.460 and because I think we got some good jurors, I will not put my personal opinion above theirs,

00:04:03.560 because they put in the work. They listened to the evidence. They, they were patriots, still are.

00:04:10.620 And if they ruled, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. That's the whole point, right? The whole

00:04:18.520 point of a jury of your peers is that they make the decision, and you hope that you're good with

00:04:25.940 that. And I am. So, if I would have made a different decision, I also keep in mind, I didn't

00:04:33.260 have the information. I didn't sit through it. And I trust them. All right? Now, what do we think

00:04:41.680 about why they made their decision? Because that's where it gets interesting. And we're not mind readers,

00:04:48.000 right? Why did they make their decision? Did they make their decision because the evidence that they

00:04:54.100 saw, and the experience that they had, which was also an emotional experience, was it because they all

00:05:01.080 shared that experience, and they were so quick to agree that there was just nothing to, to deliberate,

00:05:07.280 because the deliberations were apparently very short for this sort of thing, for the amount of

00:05:13.700 evidence was very short. So, there are two theories here. One is that these are, these are serious

00:05:22.900 people who looked at the evidence, all agreed, and that's all there was. Possible. That doesn't quite

00:05:29.400 fit with what we as non-jurors observed, talking for myself here, because I can't really square what

00:05:38.140 I saw. But again, I'm just looking through a keyhole at the evidence, and they're looking at the full

00:05:43.760 case. But through the keyhole, I don't really understand how they reached their decision if they

00:05:49.740 used the facts. But maybe they did, because again, I'm looking through a keyhole. How can I judge them

00:05:56.480 through a keyhole? Right? It wouldn't be reasonable. But I can ask a question. I can say,

00:06:03.000 hmm, a couple ways to explain this. Let me tell you the other way to explain it.

00:06:10.020 And I'm not saying this is the case. But if it is the case, I'm also okay with it.

00:06:17.060 Because they have that option. They're not supposed to. They're heavily advised, and all the pressure is

00:06:30.740 for them to use the facts, and only the facts. But they don't have to. And this is the benefit of having

00:06:37.420 human beings as your peers. They just don't have to. Did they? Did they use the facts? Well, the people

00:06:46.680 or experts say it's unlikely. They said it was unlikely before the jury deliberated. They said

00:06:52.400 this is the sort of case where it would actually be surprising if the facts mattered, because people

00:06:58.160 saw the video, they had a certain emotional response, and maybe they were worried about the

00:07:02.880 blowback later. But we don't know. No way to know. So one possibility is that the jurors just sent you a

00:07:11.420 little bit of a signal. Right? It's one possibility. They may have sent you a little bit of a signal.

00:07:20.600 And that signal might be, something horrible happened here. But maybe two horrible things happened.

00:07:28.340 One is, you know, the tragedy itself. And the other is maybe the situation that the jurors were put into

00:07:36.060 to have to judge and then possibly put themselves in danger. Not cool. Is it possible, and I'll just

00:07:45.880 put this down here as a purely speculative hypothetical, that there were at least some members of that jury who

00:07:55.220 said, you know, if we're not going to do this according to the facts, and we know we're not,

00:08:02.200 let's make sure everybody knows that. Let's just go guilty across the board and do it fast. Because

00:08:09.680 that sends a little signal, doesn't it? We don't know if we're interpreting it right, but it would fit

00:08:15.480 within a theory that they were sending a signal. Perhaps they thought that guilty on all counts would be

00:08:23.080 such an obvious signal that they did not use the facts, that it would, you know, help make it easier for an

00:08:30.660 appeal, maybe something like that. We don't know. That would be pure mind reading, guessing, speculating.

00:08:38.340 Who knows? But let's say that the jury made the decision, the other possibility, is it was purely political.

00:08:47.220 And they just made the decision because they wanted it to go that way. Is that legal? Yes.

00:08:55.980 As far as I know, that's completely legal. Because if it's an internal thought that they had,

00:09:02.280 well, we'll never know about it. That's not illegal to think stuff. You know, thinking's not illegal.

00:09:07.680 And then voting any way that they want to vote is legal. So if they wanted to just convict him

00:09:16.340 without regard to the facts, they do have that option. They just have to pretend they used the facts.

00:09:22.520 Is that what happened? If it was, and let's say that one of the reasons, now again, this is just

00:09:30.360 speculative, right? Let's say one of the reasons that they might have done such a thing, no proof that

00:09:36.000 they did, of course. But one reason would be because they would be concerned about the societal

00:09:41.480 blowback, not just themselves, but maybe society in general. Suppose we someday learned that the reason 0.91

00:09:50.660 the jurors voted the way they did was because they wanted to improve social cohesion, avoid riots,

00:10:00.480 and also avoid trouble for themselves. I'm kind of okay with that. And this is the provocative part.

00:10:11.500 I'm kind of okay with that. One of the things we do know about Derek Chauvin is that he's accused

00:10:18.060 of some pretty bad stuff in addition to the Floyd stuff. You know, there's an accusation that he didn't

00:10:23.780 pay his taxes, etc. And I have to admit, I'm not really a big fan of people who don't pay their taxes.

00:10:30.480 So there's that. You're a fool. Justice is dead. You're gone. 1.00

00:10:41.160 Now we'll talk about justice. But here's the thing. Suppose 12 of your peers decided that what's best for

00:10:50.180 the world, and maybe best for them as well, suppose they decided that a guilty across the board verdict

00:10:57.180 is what's best for society, even if it's very bad for this one defendant.

00:11:06.020 But they don't really care about him. Because there's something he did, certainly in his attitude,

00:11:12.700 or just, you know, his mannerisms, just the way he handled it, the way he didn't do more to help.

00:11:19.560 There's something just terrible there, right? It just feels terrible. And so I don't feel bad

00:11:28.100 that there is some punishment coming for this individual. And although I doubt the law and the

00:11:35.080 facts had much to do with the outcome, all experts seem to be pretty unified that, you know, it's the

00:11:41.660 emotional element to this, and maybe the social element that made the difference. If 12 of my peers,

00:11:49.140 serious citizens, got together and they said, you know, we think this is best. Maybe not paying so

00:11:56.200 much attention to the facts. We still think this is best. I trust them. I trust them. Don't know if I

00:12:06.140 would have made the same decision. And I don't know if they made that decision. I'm not even saying

00:12:11.300 they did. But if they did, I'd be okay with that. Because it would be a serious decision by my peers,

00:12:19.520 which I might not agree with, might not agree with, but I support the system. And there's no

00:12:25.620 information to suggest that the 12 jurors were anything but concerned citizens who wanted a good

00:12:32.700 outcome for the country. I'm just going to take that assumption. Would that be fair to the person

00:12:41.320 on trial? No, it would not be. I don't think there was any chance he could get a fair trial. Do you?

00:12:49.260 So we could all day long say to ourselves, he should have a fair trial. And I would agree.

00:12:57.280 I would love a fair trial. But what if it wasn't an option? Right? Was it? Was it really an option?

00:13:08.060 Had you moved him to some other location? Was it an option then? I don't think so. I don't think it

00:13:14.840 was ever an option. So if the alternative that you were interested in is the part where there's some

00:13:20.480 jury in the United States who looks at only the facts, doesn't care about the emotional content,

00:13:25.940 doesn't care about the country's outcome, and all they care about is getting, you know, the facts

00:13:32.880 right, that'd be great. I'd be totally in favor of doing that and preserving the system as best we

00:13:40.280 can by making sure that no innocent people, or let's say nobody who couldn't, nobody who didn't have

00:13:48.520 the, at least some doubt about what they did. You wouldn't want the people with some doubt to go to

00:13:53.820 jail. Now, no, not mind reader. You're coming in late if you're saying that. Everything I've said

00:14:03.060 is with the labels speculative and what if. So no mind reading required in anything I'm saying.

00:14:09.180 It's perfectly fine to speculate. And in the context, I'm saying that if it's this way, I'm okay with it.

00:14:15.160 But if it's the other way, I'm okay with it. And if it turns out it's the other way, I'm kind of okay

00:14:21.160 with it. Now, did Officer Chauvin get a fair trial? No. No, he did not. He did not get a fair trial.

00:14:34.100 Was it possible for him to get a fair trial? Nope, it wasn't. If it had been possible,

00:14:41.560 then I'd be really angry that he didn't get one. If it's not possible, I'm not going to worry about

00:14:50.080 the hypothetical that in the imaginary world it was possible. Now, there is an injustice here.

00:14:57.620 I think, in terms of the rule of law and, you know, the facts of the case maybe not being as

00:15:04.240 important as they should have been. But the reason that you have humans is that they can make a human

00:15:09.960 decision and that's what happened. I don't know if any of this will get overturned on appeals. I'm not

00:15:16.040 smart enough to know that. But suppose all the jury did is kick it down the road and that it has to

00:15:23.280 get retried at some point or there's an appeal or something. That, too, might have been a good

00:15:28.500 decision. Because, you know, temperatures are high and if you could just sort of drag it out a few years,

00:15:35.500 people just get tired of it. They'll think they've already seen the story.

00:15:41.160 So, for those of you who are concerned that I was supporting Chauvin as being probably innocent

00:15:50.560 because he's white and you think that I am. Of course, I identify as black. But if you thought

00:15:58.760 I was white and the reason that I thought he might go free is because he's white, too. 0.55

00:16:02.780 Here's something you don't know about white people. White people will throw white people 1.00

00:16:08.800 under the bus way faster than anybody else will. It is kind of a superpower. I'm not saying it's good 0.99

00:16:17.580 or bad. It's just a fact. White people will destroy other white people in a heartbeat if there's any 0.95

00:16:26.260 advantage to doing it. I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just a fact. And if destroying this 1.00

00:16:33.280 particular white person is good for the country and maybe he had it coming in some sense, I just don't 0.96

00:16:40.260 feel sympathy. I don't. I don't feel like marching. Even if the facts were not in his case, I just can't

00:16:48.380 generate any sympathy because of the way he was, really. So, somebody says, that's racist. No, that's strategy.

00:16:58.300 That's strategy. A good strategy for life is that you are tough on people that you would be associated

00:17:06.440 with because that's good for you. It's just a good strategy. If you instead decide to, let's say, make a hero

00:17:16.880 out of somebody who was killed maybe in the act of criminal activity, that's a bad strategy.

00:17:25.940 It's just a bad strategy. So, on the strategy level, I'm happy.

00:17:31.960 Pothead boomers left the country worse off than they found it. Maybe. Scott is baked. No, not at the 1.00

00:17:43.260 moment. But the night is young. So, I hate to disappoint you, but I'm actually not I.

00:17:53.180 Could you hold both thoughts, Andrew says, that Chauvin behaved abominably and that the mob

00:18:00.200 justice sacrificed and that sacrificing the individual is bad? Yeah, you can hold all these

00:18:05.180 thoughts. I definitely think that Chauvin behaved badly. I think that Floyd could have done things

00:18:12.640 differently and helped himself. That doesn't mean he had to or that he should be killed. I think that

00:18:18.840 the jury could have been different. A lot of things could have been different.

00:18:22.280 What time is it? It's getting there. 25 minutes. Accountability for Maxine. Yeah, I don't think

00:18:41.660 Congress people are ever held to account for anything in any serious way.

00:18:45.600 You know, all of you who are going to flog yourself to death over the evidence, I saw somebody

00:18:55.180 in the comments saying, how do you choke somebody out without leaving a mark? Remember that you and

00:19:01.500 I didn't sit through the trial, which is a real important point. If you have an opinion that you think

00:19:07.820 is more accurate than 12 of your educated citizens who saw the whole trial, I would say maybe.

00:19:17.260 Maybe you're that smart, but I wouldn't make that assumption about myself. I think they saw the

00:19:22.720 evidence and you didn't. So if they made a different opinion, at least for now, I'm going to trust them

00:19:30.800 that they got it right, at least in terms of what they wanted to do. It's not 421. Oh, it is. Oh, shit. It is.

00:19:41.340 No wonder you were saying that my clock was wrong.

00:19:50.240 So how about you? Let me give you, let's get your comments. How many of you are unhappy with the result?

00:19:59.020 Now, I do think that, yeah, I won't be doing that on YouTube. YouTube is not the place that people

00:20:12.120 spark up, so you'll be disappointed.

00:20:19.360 Modern day lynching, I hear people say. Well, we don't know that. See, I would say that everybody who says

00:20:25.700 the jury got it wrong, you have a big problem here, which is they saw the evidence and they saw the

00:20:33.980 presentation and you didn't. And apparently emotional content can be considered and apparently

00:20:40.820 the jury, the jurors can use whatever's in their head to make any decision they want, even though

00:20:46.860 they're not supposed to. So I'm actually fairly pleased with the outcome relative to the alternatives.

00:20:53.100 You know, if you could be magic and create alternatives that did not exist in the real

00:20:58.880 world, well, I'd like them too. But in a non-magic world where the option of Officer Chauvin getting

00:21:07.020 a fair trial really wasn't an option, this is the best case. All right. And when I say best case,

00:21:14.720 I mean for the rest of us, obviously not for him. Let's see. What did you say? Did I hear

00:21:20.880 Ellen Dershowitz? I did not. I saw somebody say that they thought he thought it would be

00:21:26.660 overturned on appeal. I would take his opinion on that over my own.

00:21:37.200 And if that happened, maybe that's the best outcome, right?

00:21:40.420 Let's see. Are there more people weighing in on whether the appeal will work?

00:21:54.060 Jamie says, you thanked the jury, but they were all woke and wanted to do this. We don't

00:21:59.200 know that. We do not know that. See, you have to take a little bit of humility into this. I think it

00:22:07.560 was perfectly fair for all of us jabbering pundits to give our opinions while the trial was still on

00:22:15.900 and presumably the jurors weren't paying attention to us. But once 12 people who listened to the

00:22:23.260 evidence and you didn't, at least not all of it, once 12 of your fellow citizens make a decision,

00:22:31.240 I feel like we have to back them until there's information that would suggest we shouldn't.

00:22:38.220 So I'm going to say back the jury and back the system, even if they didn't use data, even if

00:22:44.460 they didn't use the facts. Are you kidding me here, David says? The jurors were doxed and threatened

00:22:52.600 with dead pigs. At worst, they didn't convince. Yes, you may have missed the first part. If the reason

00:22:58.200 that the jurors convicted is because they were afraid of being doxed, I'm okay with that.

00:23:05.780 I'm okay with that. Because that was their situation. If 12 of my fellow citizens, is it sexist to say

00:23:13.700 fellow citizens? If 12 citizens and my peers decided that they were going to decide this way for their

00:23:21.420 own physical security? I'm okay with that. Totally okay with that. And if later that's overturned on appeal

00:23:31.000 because they did that, I'm okay with that. So I'm okay that they did it if they did it for their own safety

00:23:39.940 or even any part of it was for their own safety. Totally okay with it. I think they'll tell us. I actually

00:23:46.120 think that one of them, at least one of them, would say, you know, it certainly weighed on me that it

00:23:52.240 would be safer. That was part of my decision. And if that turns into, you know, a mistrial or whatever

00:23:58.740 it is, overturned, I'm okay with that. Then why have trials? The reason you have trials is that 12 of

00:24:10.740 your peers get to decide your fate. And you would prefer that than having no laws or to have one

00:24:19.560 person decide your fate in most cases. Would you do the same if you were on the jury? If I were on the

00:24:25.300 jury, I would have seen the whole case. So you can't ask me that. If I saw what they saw, would I vote the

00:24:33.140 way they voted? Probably, because 12 of them did. Zero people voted the other way. So to imagine that if I

00:24:40.580 would, if I had been there, I would have been the one person who didn't, maybe. But I'd have to say

00:24:46.380 the odds are that I would have gone with the majority, just like the odds of anybody else.

00:24:53.240 I'm sounding like Trey Gowdy right now. Well, that would be like the best thing anybody ever said.

00:24:59.300 Trey Gowdy is one of those people who, whenever he talks, I always think to myself, damn, you put that 0.98

00:25:05.440 well. That guy can explain stuff like nobody can explain stuff. 0.98

00:25:18.580 Just looking at your comments now. What did I think when I saw the video of his death originally?

00:25:24.880 Well, it looked like a murder. I mean, I think I had the same reaction. Everybody had horrified.

00:25:30.580 It looked intentional on the video. Doesn't mean it was, but the video looked certainly damning.

00:25:41.880 Somebody says, fear decided this outcome. They're allowed to do that. If the jury decided to just

00:25:48.520 screw the whole system, vote guilty on everything because they knew it would be overturned, but it's

00:25:54.620 the best thing they could do to protect their own family. Totally

00:25:58.720 okay with that. I back that decision, if that's what happened.

00:26:05.180 Biden said to the Floyd family

00:26:06.720 that he's relieved. Yeah, people are saying

00:26:08.760 they're relieved, which tells

00:26:10.780 you that we didn't

00:26:12.920 have much choice where this was going to go.

00:26:17.480 Now,

00:26:18.660 can you all deal with

00:26:20.740 the fact that I could be happy with the verdict

00:26:22.820 at the same time, it doesn't

00:26:24.920 look like it was fair to the defendant?

00:26:28.320 I feel like I can hold both of those opinions

00:26:30.640 because it's a special case.

00:26:34.840 Should these jurors stay anonymous

00:26:36.600 forever? I don't think they have a choice

00:26:38.220 because, you know, if you read

00:26:40.560 well, first of all, don't you think that

00:26:42.700 all of the

00:26:43.440 all of the co-workers and all the families

00:26:46.300 of the jurors know who the jurors are?

00:26:49.440 There's probably nobody

00:26:50.480 whose family doesn't know where they've been

00:26:52.440 for a month.

00:26:54.580 So there's so many people who do know

00:26:56.540 who the jurors are.

00:26:58.840 We're going to find out

00:26:59.860 who some of them are for sure.

00:27:04.260 When I saw the list

00:27:05.920 that described the jurors,

00:27:07.440 it was stuff like,

00:27:08.720 for example,

00:27:09.300 a 42-year-old with this profession

00:27:11.360 has this opinion.

00:27:13.060 If I read that

00:27:15.000 and I knew a 42-year-old

00:27:16.660 in that profession

00:27:17.640 and I recognized the opinion,

00:27:20.560 I'd kind of know who it was probably.

00:27:26.260 So here's what we are waiting for,

00:27:29.280 darkness.

00:27:30.820 The theory is

00:27:31.940 that maybe the guilty verdicts

00:27:34.340 will reduce the amount of

00:27:36.180 you know,

00:27:37.840 reduce the amount of rioting.

00:27:40.100 But I don't think we know anything

00:27:42.180 until it's 11 o'clock at night,

00:27:44.160 do we?

00:27:46.080 Somebody said that

00:27:47.100 they thought the jury was timed,

00:27:49.820 the verdict was timed for 420

00:27:51.780 so that people would be

00:27:53.380 too chilled out to riot,

00:27:55.500 which would be hilarious

00:27:56.640 if it were true,

00:27:57.740 but I think it's a coincidence.

00:28:01.680 Well, I don't think that cops

00:28:03.380 are going to support Chauvin.

00:28:05.860 So I heard people say

00:28:07.140 they think there's going to be

00:28:08.040 a blue flu

00:28:08.740 and cops will protest the verdict.

00:28:11.800 I don't think so.

00:28:13.140 I don't think so.

00:28:14.260 I don't think they liked

00:28:15.280 what they saw.

00:28:16.660 And I don't think that they want

00:28:17.960 Chauvin's reputation

00:28:19.660 to spill back on them.

00:28:21.940 So I suspect

00:28:22.880 that he's not going to get

00:28:24.860 a lot of support from anybody.

00:28:26.100 Jury was out.

00:28:34.020 What up?

00:28:39.160 Justice is blind to politics.

00:28:41.220 Sure it is.

00:28:43.740 All right.

00:28:44.320 Well, that's all I got for now.

00:28:46.080 I'm sure I'll have more

00:28:47.080 in the morning

00:28:47.520 and I will talk to you

00:28:48.820 later.

00:28:50.220 Don't riot.

00:28:50.820 Don't riot.

Real Coffee with Scott Adams - April 21, 2021

Episode 1351 Scott Adams： Chauvin Verdict Hot Take

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript