Real Coffee with Scott Adams - Episode 2617 Three memory (persuasion) tips from Dr. Carmen Simon 10⧸03⧸24

00:00:00.000 everybody this is a special coffee with scott adams feature without the coffee i've got a guest

00:00:06.160 today we were joined with dr carmen simon who has a new um a new community on locals that you could

00:00:14.000 find at memorable.locals.com did i get that right that's correct yes and you are going to learn

00:00:21.360 three different tricks or tips you could call them for being more memorable in your business

00:00:27.440 or personal life or whatever you want to do but mostly business i think and three tricks to be

00:00:32.960 more memorable which makes you more persuasive i know you all want to be more persuasive so welcome

00:00:40.880 carmen thank you so much and welcome everyone it's um good to create memories in people's brains

00:00:46.720 because they will act in your favor based on what they remember not on what they forget so thank you

00:00:52.000 so much for inviting me that the sun has shifted a little bit so you disappeared in the glare of sun

00:00:57.040 so if you can move a little bit oh there you go there we go now the part of the excitement is i'm

00:01:01.920 using the rumble studio where i'm going to try to go to three different pieces of content and split

00:01:07.680 screens and so there's a little bit of experimenting going on we did a little practice this should work

00:01:13.040 so uh why don't you queue up the the first trick and maybe maybe tie it to something that's happening

00:01:18.960 in the world so people can see how relevant it is when i created the memorable locals platform i was

00:01:25.040 looking to find the intersection between what's going on in the world like you're mentioning and

00:01:29.760 also brain science that helps us become memorable and persuasive and one event that caught my attention

00:01:36.320 recently and i'm sure that everybody here joining us knows about is the astronauts that were stuck in

00:01:43.120 the international space station and now elon musk has to go and rescue them somehow and i was reading

00:01:49.120 an article about them and they're telling their story about having to see the shuttle move away

00:01:54.560 from them and how hard that was to watch also they were telling us about their work and how they can do

00:02:00.000 some of that work even upside down so those are details that are interesting but can you relate to

00:02:05.440 working upside down not as much as a piece that i was able to relate to a little later on in the article

00:02:11.920 where they were talking about the fact that when you work in space you have no joint pain

00:02:16.080 working upside down versus reading about joint pain one is more relatable than than the other piece

00:02:23.600 so that's going to be tied to a lesson a mini lesson that you're about to watch so scott is going to

00:02:28.560 share with you and how using something that is relatable and familiar to somebody else's brain

00:02:34.400 it's going to attract extra attention and create extra memory so we can see it in action all right we're

00:02:39.920 going to try to go to the brief little clip that shows you that all right so if i do everything

00:02:47.040 right in a moment you're going to see that play

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00:03:57.600 they discover themselves when people see themselves and their experiences reflected in the content

00:04:02.960 it activates areas of the brain associated with self-referential processing which is connected

00:04:08.320 to engagement and memory to make this happen avoid space travel skydiving or mountain metaphors

00:04:15.200 they are cliche and more importantly they are not relatable in this example the design is decent

00:04:21.520 but few people can relate to it because only a few people actually get to travel to space so the metaphor

00:04:27.680 is too abstract instead choose metaphors or examples of a concrete relatable experience the after version

00:04:35.520 shows a universal experience it's a simple move and a metaphor for testing new waters or starting new

00:04:40.880 ventures so consider grounding your metaphors in common scenarios this is helpful because the brain processes

00:04:48.080 familiar scenarios quickly and easily and your audience is likely to associate familiar scenarios

00:04:54.480 with personal memories and emotions after all what do you relate to better thrill seeking parachute

00:05:01.280 jumping peak climbing adventures or navigating a backyard pool without incident

00:05:10.000 all right so so this that that reminds me very much of a humor trick which is if you're doing a story

00:05:18.080 about if you're telling a joke let's say you're a stand-up comedian uh if you tried to tell a joke about

00:05:23.520 all right imagine going up to the space station and you're weightless and people are going to be like

00:05:30.640 but if you said all right you know how when you're commuting and there's always that guy who cuts you off

00:05:35.600 and you're like oh yeah i know that so is it is that is what i'm saying kind of close to what you're

00:05:42.400 what you're talking about it is very close and you can use this technique whether you're developing content for other people

00:05:47.440 or whether you're consuming content yourself and you're wondering why is it that some pieces of information

00:05:51.520 attract my attention more so than other pieces of information and i tend to remember them later a

00:05:56.160 little bit a little bit better the moment that you can see yourself and your reflection in some

00:06:01.760 experiences that people are describing then the attention is uh is more guaranteed and the memory is

00:06:07.280 more likely and um those images don't always have to have to be physical images it could be powerful

00:06:13.680 words sometimes even with descriptive words you can build a mental picture in somebody else's mind

00:06:18.880 unfortunately what i'm seeing in business is that so many things are so abstract and so generic

00:06:24.000 and uh even if they're at the metaphorical level like people using the space shuttle as a metaphor

00:06:28.880 and you can't really relate to because how many of us get to fly in space and and work upside down

00:06:35.680 as you're talking there's something hilarious happening kind of simultaneously

00:06:39.840 which uh the audience doesn't know we we tested this we had the lighting and the sound and everything

00:06:44.640 but the the sun uh is moving as we're talking and changing in the window and it's completely washing

00:06:51.840 you out and i'm moving around the sun yes but but one of the things that you teach and being memorable

00:06:58.640 is that the the mistake is the one you remember right yes so you're sort of accidentally becoming super

00:07:06.240 memorable by the fact that the sun is chasing you around because this is a perfect example because

00:07:11.520 anybody who's ever tried to do any kind of a zoom call you you think you've got everything set up

00:07:17.920 and then the cat comes in or the kid comes in or the sun changes or the you know somebody starts the

00:07:23.520 jackhammer outside yes all right so let's see if let's uh cue up the second one so the first tip we got

00:07:33.280 what's the second one so the first tip we got which was um grounding experiences in people's relatable

00:07:39.120 experiences and you don't say generic and cliche like the space shuttle metaphor the second one um

00:07:44.720 dawned on me when recently apple did a very clever branding so when the world knows about ai as in

00:07:52.480 artificial intelligence there comes apple and starts talking about apple intelligence so i like

00:07:58.480 the twist on the familiar so the next example that you're going to see and practical guideline that

00:08:02.800 you can use has to do with playing off of the familiar and jolting the brain out of its habituation

00:08:10.080 all right let's do that one if my technology works the way i want it to

00:08:21.440 ideas or services really are this slide works for several reasons here is one the image takes

00:08:28.080 advantage of predictive coding you see the brain continuously generates predictions about sensory input

00:08:33.600 and correct errors when reality doesn't match expectations this slide disrupts the brain's

00:08:39.280 predictions with an unexpected image the prediction error forces the audience to pay closer attention to

00:08:45.200 the message since the detail on the slide invites correcting prediction errors the brain is extra vigilant

00:08:51.680 for a moment and you will get extra attention to the next slide too so can you break a pattern that the brain

00:08:58.240 has learned to predict in your next presentation

00:09:00.640 all right so summarize that one i like that one because it's building off of the apple in terms

00:09:10.080 of the image as well but if you were able to notice the bit up a pair instead of the bit of apple

00:09:15.920 that's where the slight of element of surprise appears and surprise biologically speaking is

00:09:21.040 always bad for the brain and why is that because the brain is built to have a predictive function we

00:09:26.880 always want to know what happens next we may not always be accurate but the coding is in there we

00:09:32.640 want to code the prediction and when there is an error we will remember that that moment because what

00:09:38.080 is a surprise but a failure to predict what happens next obviously through a sequence if you create

00:09:43.760 some content on your own you can't afford that many surprises because you don't want the brain to spend

00:09:48.320 extra energy on processing everything of it as if it's a little bit jolty but every so often if you use

00:09:54.880 these moments they can be small but very potent in terms of attracting attention and creating a memory trace

00:10:00.800 so would you say that simply making somebody stop and think about a thing is what's

00:10:08.240 causing it to to be more memorable so so hypnotists always talk about repetition is what it's

00:10:15.760 persuasive and if i see something that's spelled wrong or it's just not the ordinary way you say

00:10:21.440 the thing i'll read the sentence then i'll read that again and i'll think huh that's not ordinary then

00:10:26.560 i'll read it again then i'll think about it and i'll read it again and then i just remember it forever

00:10:30.880 so so is so is the essence of the predictive coding one that if somebody's predicting it's going another

00:10:38.560 way and it doesn't they just have to spend a little more processing on it right exactly you're going to

00:10:44.240 go back and review it like you said and um you have that brief eureka moment that small moment of oh

00:10:51.360 an aha type of reaction and um when uh when you have that it's almost like thinking in slow motion so

00:10:58.880 the world just stops for for one moment of course next time you're not going to be taken by surprise

00:11:03.680 this is why from the brain's perspective the difference between what you expect would happen and

00:11:07.920 what actually happens is how the brain learns that's why even though biologically surprises are

00:11:12.480 bad for us we do appreciate them because it's a learning moment it's a teachable moment i sometimes

00:11:18.400 say that consciousness is nothing more than the difference between what you predicted would happen

00:11:23.760 next and then what you experienced oh i like that definition that's a whole different conversation but

00:11:30.000 i always think that that's the the essence of who we are predicting and then adjusting to the

00:11:34.800 prediction i like that definition and also it's important to define terms correctly because

00:11:39.760 sometimes people use surprise and novelty interchangeably but they are different novelty is

00:11:44.560 something that you haven't seen or experienced before surprise which is where the predictive error

00:11:49.840 happens is something that you did experience before but did not expect this is why even as you're

00:11:56.560 about to approach some area where you know you might fall you might slip and actually do fall and slip

00:12:02.720 part of that is going to tell your brain oh i knew it this is why i told you so with your spouses for 0.93

00:12:07.600 instance or your friends feel so juicy to the brain because your brain could see it coming okay all right

00:12:13.520 number three set us up for the third one visual demand versus a visual offer what's that mean so the third

00:12:20.480 one that um we have um i was reminded of it when i was reading some articles and i know that um p diddy has been in your

00:12:28.160 news and in your shows for uh for quite some time because of um recent stories and i was reading an

00:12:34.400 article about him and in the article somebody had posted pictures of him looking directly at the

00:12:40.160 viewer so his eyes are almost piercing yours whereas other pictures were showing him looking away from the

00:12:47.360 viewer in design that's called visual demand when somebody's looking right at you versus visual offer when

00:12:54.720 they're looking away from you but still offering a perspective that you could uh you could process

00:12:59.680 so let's see this brief minute lesson and we can talk about it all right this this one's a little

00:13:04.160 subtle so i've got some questions on this one in a previous video we talked about avoiding cliche

00:13:12.240 images of people by not showing their faces if you do have to show their faces here's some things to

00:13:18.240 consider show real people to convey authenticity this slide from a tech company shows engineers at work

00:13:25.280 and play another example from a biotech company combines superhero bodies with real faces from an

00:13:31.920 engineering team when you don't have photos of real people and need to use stock photos you have a

00:13:38.000 choice you can show people looking directly at the viewer creating a visual demand this type of image

00:13:44.640 asks you to create a relationship with the subject in contrast when you show a person looking away you

00:13:50.800 create a visual offer this image allows the viewer to observe without needing to engage directly it can

00:13:57.920 evoke curiosity and offer context without being so aggressive next time you include people in your

00:14:03.920 designs consider visual demand versus visual offer since a visual demand asks the viewer to connect with the

00:14:10.800 subject it can fall flat because the connection isn't authentic a visual offer can feel more relaxed and genuine

00:14:21.040 all right so the some of the language um you know is a little scientific e sounding but if i if i could

00:14:30.960 summarize that so we just watched the vp debate we i won't make this political but it's a perfect example

00:14:38.080 where they did a split screen of the two debaters and the the photos that ended up being memes

00:14:46.080 were with uh one of the debaters uh doing a little bit of a side eye like this and one of them looking

00:14:52.880 straight into it the and i thought to myself that if that's the meme you know compatible with with what

00:15:01.120 you're saying the vance was offering a softer you know sort of a side eye you know which was

00:15:08.080 both interesting because of the side eye but also he wasn't right in your face and then the other side

00:15:13.200 was looking right at you and and so that would be the the demand right yes yes the demand is i'm looking

00:15:21.040 right at you be my friend vote for me love me love me yes and that's that's a tougher sell it is then

00:15:28.000 you know i'm looking over here maybe you should look over there too exactly and that's the offer

00:15:32.880 that you're making so you're expanding the horizons a little bit and you're coming across as as less

00:15:37.840 aggressive this is important for us in design and obviously as we construct a lot of business content

00:15:42.720 because of those cliche photos that i mentioned and sometimes we just cannot get away from using people

00:15:47.840 photos for those who want to humanize a presentation in some way or some content so there are some some

00:15:53.920 reasons but you just have to be cautious because sometimes things come across so cliche when people

00:15:58.960 cannot possibly relate to somebody who's so happy on a monday morning being at work and looking right

00:16:04.560 at you now uh for the audience you how many of these uh little videos where you would learn a new thing

00:16:11.840 in just what a minute or two minutes how many of those do you have on locals now at memorable.locals.com

00:16:18.480 so far there's a gallery of about 50 of them and i post three a week so hopefully as you decide to

00:16:26.400 join us the gallery keeps keeps growing and you would have access to not only the science principles

00:16:32.080 behind memorable content but one of the satisfying pieces for me is good design i think good design can

00:16:38.880 can change the world don't you well i hope so yeah i i i often say design is destiny

00:16:47.360 if you get design right so would you call these micro lessons they will definitely be micro lessons i

00:16:53.200 really take great pride when i construct something and people can use that principle as early as that

00:16:58.720 afternoon whether they design content themselves or whether you're sometimes questioning why is it that

00:17:04.560 a piece of information that attracts my attention or stays on my mind a little bit more or strongly

00:17:10.080 than um another piece of information right yeah and i should note for the audience that uh all of your

00:17:15.920 stuff is based on actual science it's not somebody's opinion so so it's not like a like a body language

00:17:22.640 expert it's more like somebody's actually studied what's what's the brain doing in these situations

00:17:29.760 i do i am i look to see what happens uh underneath the human skull and how people process information and

00:17:35.760 how they um eventually remember it and also in those neuroscience studies that i conduct that's why

00:17:41.520 the design has to be impeccable because you'll be ashamed to spend so many resources on conducting a

00:17:46.720 neuroscience study and not show the brain something that already is optimal on top of that you tweak

00:17:51.040 things just slightly right uh you know uh speaking of faceless one here's a little anecdote just to

00:17:58.640 just round this off years ago newsweek back when newsweek was more of a real publication uh they asked if

00:18:06.560 i'd want to draw dilbert for the cover and they said but we haven't decided we're going to put dilbert there

00:18:12.960 we're we're testing a female face and i said really you're going to test a comic against a real 0.93

00:18:20.560 attractive female face and you think that's going to be close and they're like well you know could go 1.00

00:18:25.280 either way you never know and i'm thinking this is a total waste of my time because one of the things

00:18:30.400 i had learned long ago you can't beat a human face especially if it's female especially if it's 0.97

00:18:36.000 especially if it's attractive there's no such thing as a comic that can beat that

00:18:40.880 for in terms of will you pick it up and will you buy it at the newsstand so it's so important it's a

00:18:47.040 humbling remark that you're making because even in neuroscience we've had an epiphany lately we used

00:18:51.600 to believe that the processing of a human face is automatic so it requires a very few cognitive

00:18:56.480 resources more recently we have the ability to take the signal from the eeg signal for instance in my

00:19:02.640 case from the brain areas that are responsible for processing something that is a little bit heavier

00:19:08.640 so a heavier cognitive workload and are able to superimpose it on an image so let's just say those

00:19:13.440 cliche pictures that you showed in the mini lessons with people looking at phones and being very happy

00:19:18.800 the moment that you have a face on there we recognize that there is cognitive processing that

00:19:23.120 is happening right on the face so processing faces is not as automatic as we thought they would be so now

00:19:29.840 we have choices if you really want to embed some in your in your communication just be very cautious

00:19:34.720 because they will demand some cognitive effort i've got a hypothesis on top of all this which is if you're

00:19:41.760 going to invent an app or some kind of consumer good and it's got lots of faces on it you're going to do

00:19:49.360 well because you think about it facebook is literally about faces instagram faces tick tock faces uh dating is

00:19:58.240 faces tinder is faces uh faces work if you can find a new reason just whatever that reason is to have a bunch of

00:20:06.400 faces uh you're three quarters of your way to success because people are just drawn to faces you can't

00:20:12.560 turn it off if you wanted to and that means we now know from neuroscience that there's engagement with

00:20:17.360 the faces and now in light of this mini lesson you might have some choices as to whether you position them

00:20:21.920 in front of the viewer looking right at them or being a bit less intrusive and looking away yeah there's

00:20:27.920 you could have a whole uh science on just best way to show a face all right so uh we'll we'll keep it

00:20:36.000 to these uh three great tips and they can find you uh um in subscription right you have a paywall up

00:20:42.720 do you have to pay yeah there's the paywall up so there is the the seven dollars a month but um

00:20:47.360 hopefully that's a small price for big guidelines that can make a difference and if you've got an

00:20:53.680 employer it would be the cheapest amount of money you could ever spend to turn your employee into a

00:20:59.200 superpower there's gonna be a lot of tips in there all right dr carmen simon they can find you at

00:21:05.440 memorable.locals.com is there anything else you want to mention you've got a new book out uh there is

00:21:11.600 the book it's which is called made you look and it works in concordance with the mini lessons that

00:21:17.680 are part of the memorable locals platform and um it's also a book that has a visceral experiences

00:21:24.240 i'm i'm really enjoying things that are tactile and as you browse through the pages you'll be

00:21:30.000 reminded not only of some of these guidelines but um also ground during your experience is something

00:21:34.800 that is physical which also helps with attention and memory all right let me ask the audience are you

00:21:40.880 more likely to remember this because the lighting problems that we had and and the continual adjustments

00:21:47.280 and the answer is yes you are and that there's the there's another thing you just learned all

00:21:52.160 right thanks for joining and uh we'll we'll have you back and uh appreciate you taking the time thank

00:21:58.640 you thank you so much thank you bye-bye bye

00:22:17.280 you

00:22:47.280 You

Real Coffee with Scott Adams - October 03, 2024

Episode 2617 Three memory (persuasion) tips from Dr. Carmen Simon 10⧸03⧸24

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