00:03:38.280and this is like a decade ago that clip that's amazing wow you guys i'm erica and we have brian
00:03:46.860romel romeli romilly he he answers to all of those names we just asked him and everything
00:03:55.420well all we're glad is that you answer when we call and you say that you'll come on because
00:04:02.140you are definitely a fan favorite and you're so interesting. So we want to welcome you back as one
00:04:09.940of our most favorite guest professors. And I put out the article we're going to talk about today
00:04:17.380from your, you have 5,000 days series. And this one kind of freaked me out about population or
00:04:27.320depopulation control or not control and what might cause it. So I am going to kind of hand it over to
00:04:35.980you to maybe you could brief us on what it is we're going to talk about today, and then we'll
00:04:41.380have questions for you. Beautiful. Thank you for having me again. I love you guys. Ms. Scott,
00:04:47.320every time I see the simultaneous stuff, it's beautiful. John Calhoun in the 1960s, primarily
00:04:56.560late 60s, conducted a number of psychological and sociological tests. He primarily was under this
00:05:06.920particular story, worked with mice, and he created what would be utopia for mice.
00:05:15.780And he had different universes, he called them. He did all the way up to 27 or 29,
00:05:22.120but universe 25 was the one that really stuck with him and what is mice utopia look like well
00:05:31.140think think of them of being a mouse and what would you want food endless food um endless
00:05:38.700ability to do what you want water temperature control a place to hang out everything you
00:05:45.060possibly could need. And if you can imagine, there was a town square and all of these layers,
00:05:53.340multi-story layers that are around the walls inside this massive room-sized mouse contraption
00:06:00.020that he invented. I think at one time there were 800 mice, maybe more. More, I think.
00:06:07.080Yeah. I forget exactly in that particular epoch. But ultimately what happened was
00:06:14.020um abundance uh the mice were happy uh they were their fur looked good they were doing really well
00:06:22.480and just about i would say three to five months in he started to notice unusual behaviors
00:06:32.640um in the town square as every mouse had to cross to get the food and water
00:06:38.040there would be interactions and sometimes those interactions would start becoming violent
00:06:42.780and uh as they interfaced with each other and then he started noticing a pecking order
00:06:50.640and that pecking order would would be some males would refuse to leave their lair
00:06:56.620and would have other mice bring food back for them you know throughout the day very much like
00:07:05.400Yeah, DoorDash, right? And very much like the decline of the Greco Empire in Greece and Roman Empire to some degree.
00:07:17.620That started to really become very profound.
00:07:21.060Ultimately, in the town square, there would become more and more violent interactions and other mice would watch it, almost like a gladiator type of situation.
00:07:30.740Mice would be cut up. They would have scars. Other mice would join. There would be packs that form. But the ones that were not interacting, he called them, Calhoun called them the beautiful ones, primarily male. And in fact, I think all of them were male. There was one female, but they got knocked out when you actually read the research paper.
00:07:55.360I have to jump in and say the beautiful ones always smash the picture, always, every time.
00:08:18.460As this situation developed, you started seeing more and more of the population become more fixated on the tribalism that took place in the town square and taking care of the beautiful ones, the rich ones, the ones that had everything, that knew everything.
00:13:51.380This is called nanofabrication, the moving around of atoms.
00:13:56.300And I'm not guessing about that. We already have nanofabrication and it's just a replicator.
00:14:01.300Yeah, essentially a replicator. Now, this plays out different for biology and food.
00:14:07.300I happen to believe that we're going to be growing our own food and we're going to be making bespoke food.
00:14:11.300I really think that we're going to be forming guilds and humans are going to be doing things that are going to be absolutely phenomenal.
00:14:17.300phenomenal. But we're not going to be doing the things that we used to do to take away 90% of our
00:14:22.800time and absolutely making it the meaning of our life. For most of human existence, our work
00:14:29.380was not our meaning. Our life was our meaning. And we didn't have a separation between work
00:14:35.860and normal life. We just had life. The Industrial Revolution bifurcated our life,
00:14:42.820quote unquote, from our work. And we had to be almost like a machine to fit into the cog
00:14:50.740of the production line of the industrial revolution. When we are no longer part of that
00:14:56.680production line, we are rapidly being taken out of that. And the machine is going into that
00:15:02.620production line. Our lives change. And we're left with, where's the floor? What happened?
00:15:09.200What do I do now? And that's what the series is about, is to try to understand it. And Ellen, to your question, when do we get to the point of the ultimate? Well, we never do. So it's always going to be a phase of arriving, right? Even when we get to that phase of nanofabrication, there's always going to be something bigger and better.
00:15:31.260So there is never any end point. And it's never a utopia. And that's the point I'm going to make, is that we are not going to have a utopia. We're always going to have, hopefully, different frictions in human life that make us have to try to thrive. Humans thrive by the unbalanced land that we're on because we have to struggle. And that struggle is always going to be there.
00:15:55.840So, I mean, I've often noticed that people, you know, like people think, oh, I would be so happy
00:16:02.320if everything was just perfect for me and everything was just provided for me. But I
00:16:05.360think the exact opposite is true. If you really look at how people behave when they have this
00:16:10.460abundance, because there certainly are people that have all the money they would ever need.
00:16:14.120And they tend to be the most dysfunctional people around. Yeah. And I also notice, you know, I mean,
00:16:19.860I don't want to get too political in this discussion, but you have this, you know,
00:16:22.840stereotype of an awful like a affluent white liberal female i think it's i might have it
00:16:28.960out of order but um you know those are the people that seem to be like complaining about things all
00:16:34.020the time and they're always like rich privileged people and you know it's probably true for a lot
00:16:40.840of men too the people that are at these protests are people that don't need to work they don't have
00:16:45.040enough struggle in their own life so they focus on other things and they kind of invent problems
00:16:50.980I've seen this throughout society where if someone doesn't have what I would consider enough struggles or enough challenges that they need to deal with personally, then they just like find other stuff to complain about and they find other problems that they basically invent problems.
00:17:09.380These are really good points. And if you study history, not just the Roman and Greek cultures, but a lot of the micro cultures, there's an arc of their existence. And when they get to the existence point of so much abundance and so much wealth, there is an ultimate decline.
00:17:27.620And that decline is obviously taking place in most of the Western world. It's actually rapidly taking place in the Eastern world. China is a good example. Japan is a really good example. They reached a maximum and they dropped off quite rapidly.
00:17:42.580So this is something we all have to start being mature about and dealing with. And to try to depoliticize it, I get the political angle and we can say Karen, I won't say that. But I mean, the reason why this happens is humans need something to make them industrious.
00:18:03.700they need to be able to have something to focus on and giving some credit to the people in power
00:18:10.760they know that they look at universe 25 and they they look at us unwashed masses because we're the
00:18:17.620we're the unwashed masses we're the useless eaters all of us here you know um and they go
00:18:23.980what are we going to do with those people you know we don't need them anymore and yes some of
00:18:29.000them are going to go to the Malthusian and depopulation sort of playbook. And not that
00:18:34.520they ever left it. There's always been a desire to control certain populations and to utilize them
00:18:42.580because that's what happens, like you said, Owen, when you get very wealthy,
00:18:46.580you get bored. And so your chess game used to be, I got to feed my family. Now it's like,
00:18:53.520I can buy and sell anything. Let's see if I can play games with this population versus
00:18:58.740that population then aren't they the ones that die first um no they they well yes from gluttony
00:19:05.860the gluttony does happen but we get we get seduced into believing that we want their life
00:19:13.760right i've been around very wealthy people you do not want their life i'm sorry you you do not
00:19:21.240want their life so if you're struggling to try to be that person honestly look at it and ask
00:19:28.280is that really who I want to be? But I'll be different. No, you won't. Look at lottery
00:19:32.540winners. Look at NFL, you know, NBA stars. Look at anybody who's run into a lot of wealth.
00:19:40.200And I'm not saying that they didn't work for it. And there's also the phenomenon of men that
00:19:44.220typically seem to, I mean, not everybody, but there's a lot of men that once they retire,
00:19:49.440they just decline and die within a few years. And I think a lot of that has to do with their
00:19:54.180loss of purpose. They stop engaging with the world. They're just sort of sitting around watching TV
00:19:58.760or whatever, but they're not really stimulating or growing anymore. And I think they just lose
00:20:05.180their purpose and then their body follows. Yeah, exactly. You know, you come to a really good
00:20:09.540point. Men are not as social as a creature as women, and I'm not trying to be sexist. It just
00:20:17.340is the way the factory programming generally comes, right? So when you hit your factory programming,
00:20:23.380there's a social nature and not social nature so most men will garner their social connections
00:20:30.500most of their life through their work if you take away their work you take away their social
00:20:35.940connections you can only go to the golf course so often and then it's the usual suspects there
00:20:41.860more men like you that have been retired and you don't have any purpose and it tends to go down
00:20:47.060very quickly i can say the same thing about women where you know they have an afternoon wine and then
00:20:53.460all of a sudden it's wine all day long and then they sink into this i don't have any meaning or
00:20:58.260purpose in my life and so well again one of the reasons i'm trying to write this some of the
00:21:05.460themes in the in the series is to help prepare what does it look like when i don't define myself
00:21:12.980buy my job you know what does it look like you know it it's only been about 200 years 300 years
00:21:20.980that we've totally cemented our identity to our job now throughout history we had guilds
00:21:31.220within our families in fact our names were even tied to you know goldsmiths cooper things like
00:21:37.380that you know the jobs that our family did but they were so intricated into our lives
00:21:44.100that there was no separation between the job and what you did it was so kind of wrapped up
00:21:49.860we don't have that same sort of thing although some people bring their work home
00:21:56.180we we have a separation between what we do and what we do at home but we define ourselves by
00:22:04.420how we produce in our life. Am I making enough money? Who am I comparing myself with? A lot of
00:22:12.260folks get on the life bandwagon after coming out of university, comparing themselves to their peer
00:22:19.560group. Like, you know, am I making as much money as this person? Am I doing that? That's the quote
00:22:25.980unquote rat race. And that pretty much established itself in the early 1950s. It was right after
00:22:32.520world war ii when we started to develop this sort of um american dream and it's it's funny because
00:22:42.120in the last two um of the series because uh universe 25 is a couple of you know uh articles
00:22:50.040ago i i really am exploring what that looks like you know how did we get the american dream
00:22:57.000who who built that it started with a guy named edward bernays and it worked its way through other
00:23:03.420uh other folks the soap opera i wrote about how the soap opera was manufactured to in a sense
00:23:11.800weaponize the stay-at-home mom during the afternoon to create that social connection
00:23:18.680that they were not having in the suburb right because we were living we're designed to live
00:23:24.380in a communal structure, a family extended communal structure. That's our way. It's not
00:23:30.220socialism. It's actually the opposite of that. But a lot of people equate it to that. We have
00:23:36.220these layers of voluntary and forced, family is forced, and involuntary coagulations that we call
00:23:44.180our local community. And it's designed to form different safety nets, mentally, emotionally,
00:23:50.980physically, and financially, because we do need those things. I mean, we can all be lone wolves
00:23:57.160out in the forest, you know, certainly, but we decided voluntarily to organize. That's how
00:24:04.700humanity existed for most of its existence. And then when we organized, we had to create a pecking
00:24:10.920order, and then we created what we call today democracies. You know, we live in a republic,
00:24:18.740not a democracy. But, you know, later on, a more mature form of governance is, you know,
00:24:27.040you have established rights. That's what a republic is. And then where they are ordained by a human
00:24:34.340note, they are ordained by God, right? They are given to us, you know, these rights. So coming
00:24:40.720back to the organizational structure, you have a force structure that comes from your family.
00:24:45.460So that gives you the idea of responsibility. Why do I have an honor to my family? Why do I have an honor to my local community? And so when you break that up into suburbia in the 1950s, what happened was a lot of women felt isolated. They were locked up. It's like, how do I interact? Well, I can go down the street and after that, you just couldn't form the right structures.
00:25:10.040So the soap opera was designed to become that local community where they would check in and it became quite addictive. And so it would create a form of emptiness in a lot of women that would be fulfilled by the instant foods and the instant detergents, soaps, that would allow them to get their day moved along quicker after they took three hours out of their day to watch the various daytime dramas.
00:25:39.560And so what happened is psychiatrists and psychologists and psychoanalysts
00:25:45.720analyzed this emptiness that people felt in that form of the American dream.
00:25:51.080And they gave them back a commercialized version of it
00:25:55.880by feeding them the things that they needed to fulfill their life.
00:51:18.740hey, this is why you don't put this constitution in there to make it say good things when it really
00:51:25.240should say honest things. If AI is not honest, it is being trained to lie. If your robot is not
00:51:31.180honest with you, it is being trained to lie. If you're not honest to your child, you're training
00:51:36.500it to lie. So how do you become a leader? Well, one of the first things I would tell anybody young
00:51:43.140is to become a parent. Become a parent. Once you have a child, and if you don't have, if you can't
00:51:49.580reproduce, build a family. Build it. Find people. There are a lot of kids that need mentors. Be a
00:51:55.960real mentor. There are a lot of old people willowing away in senior homes. Go and visit them.
00:52:02.860Do the reverse. Take their wisdom. Do you know how much wisdom that just gets left on the cutting
00:52:09.040room floor of some of humanity because we don't even care about old folks oh they're old they're
00:52:15.600not vital and young like you know they're not moving fast and breaking things like you know
00:52:20.200internet stars and stuff like that they have a lot to say yes and they say it in ways that may
00:52:27.100have old words and they might say it in ways that doesn't make sense but that is wisdom it's a life
00:52:32.740earned wisdom. And when we lived in that organized structure of culture, where we had
00:52:38.300multi-generations around us, we would have the old folks say, oh, cut it out. What are you,
00:52:44.620what are you doing? What are you doing now? You need that. You need that pressure.
00:52:49.440Such a good point. We were, we were taught things by people who knew better. And although, you know,
00:52:57.760when you're younger, you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'll, you know, you have to find out
00:53:01.520for yourself. But then there comes a point where you realize, oh, you know what? The things that
00:53:05.680they told me were actually great. And then you just start remembering them and adopting them
00:53:10.480at a certain age. You're like, I'm going to adopt that wisdom because now I know better
00:53:13.920and they were right. And I love that idea. And I also was, I'm just like reading the comments at
00:53:21.000the same time, but, you know, so a lot of us miss Scott and, you know, we miss what he would be
00:53:26.580saying about things, but also did Scott actually assign your opinions to you or did he give an
00:53:33.580opinion and talk about things and then you took from it what you wanted to hear and know and fill
00:53:38.760in some gaps? Because I would say to Scott, like, what am I going to do? Like, if you're not here,
00:53:43.700like, I won't know how to feel. And he's like, yes, you do. And think of all the times you
00:53:48.280disagreed with me and, you know, and sometimes you were right and, you know, and I was wrong
00:53:52.780And it's true. And it's like, you don't have to have your opinion assigned to you. So like, but, but just remember that Scott really did show us like a breakdown of thought. And without him being here, you just have to work harder at it and, and try to remember what this like older, maybe older, wiser person may have instilled in you like a family member would and just decide like, yeah, let me think what Scott would say and take that.
00:59:18.480Yeah, the guild is a structure. I don't remember what number it was in my series. It was about five back. I present the idea of the guild. The guild is an organized structure that you build of people of like interest and like work product. And it self-organizes. And there is always going to be a leadership that forms.
00:59:39.520every one of us know that when we form a group of five or more, a leader automatically comes up.
00:59:46.040And if that leader is not a proper leader, the group disperses and they're alone. Right. So the
00:59:53.660leader needs to know how to create a structure where people want to be involved. They know how
00:59:58.900to balance things. So it's a self-organizing sort of structure. And that is almost like how
01:00:05.880Bitcoin works. It's a decentralized structure that is going to take over the entire planet.
01:00:12.060There's going to be a lot less centralization. As much as Bernie would love everybody to be
01:00:16.640centralized with one plan, it isn't going to work that way because we're all going to have our own
01:00:21.540manufacturing. I can 3D print anything I want right now in my garage. I do it all day long.
01:00:27.000You're going to be able to do that yourself in five years. You're never going to go to stores
01:00:31.940to buy stuff at some point. Most people listening will live through that period. Just like if you
01:00:38.100were at the 1800s, I told you someday you're going to fly to the other side of the planet
01:00:43.100and you're going to be able to, you wouldn't believe it. The same is going to be true here.
01:00:47.120It's not utopia. It's not universe 25. We are not victims. We will have this. And you folks are
01:00:54.460the leaders. Oh, I love that, Brian. Oh my God. You guys, how much do we love? I want to be like
01:01:00.920when uncle brian comes we love you we love uncle brian as long as i'm not in an ice cream truck uh
01:01:09.900truck no no truck or trunk you guys wow so we i mean the the chat loves you they're thanking you
01:01:19.840and we love you so much you bring so much wisdom i can't wait to have you back to talk about the
01:01:25.140alien stuff. And I cannot wait. That's far away. I know. That'll be in July. Just be ready. Be ready
01:01:34.160for, I'm just telling everybody, be ready to hear stuff and don't think it's all a psyop and don't
01:01:40.040think all of it's real. You need to discern. Stop always pushing things away and debunking. That is
01:01:46.440making you a victim too. I want to leave you with that. If you are an endless debunker, you've
01:01:51.100debilitated yourself from novelty. Your life purpose is to find novelty. Don't always throw
01:01:58.400everything away because sometimes things are unique and that's part of the programming is
01:02:03.740to throw all the novelty in with the junk so that you get so disturbed by it that you turn everything
01:02:09.160off. Don't turn off. That's why people try to put a stigma on you by saying, oh, it's a conspiracy
01:02:14.560theory to make you feel like you're some kind of crazy person. There's a lot of conspiracy theories