AVI YEMINI ｜ The Yemini Report — Ep 23
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Summary
In the wake of the Liberal Party leadership spill, the question of who will be the next Prime Minister of Australia is: will it be Peter Dutton or Angus Taylor? This week, we speak to Alexandra Pritchard to answer this question and much more.
Transcript
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Welcome back to the Yamini Report. You're tuned in to the free audio version of this episode, which is solid, but it's just a taste of the full experience.
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Welcome back to the Yamini Report, and I guess it's been a wild journey over the last couple of months,
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but I think more recently in the fallout to the election, and the fallout keeps dropping lower and lower.
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Just finding out who's going to be leading the Liberal Party, and who better to unpack it all with us this week.
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Our good friend, Alexandra, welcome to the show.
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Well, basically, the Liberal Party, and indeed the Coalition, have decided they do not want to survive,
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and they have sided with the left-wing, wet, moderate, sort of, dampish factions
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who are going to keep chasing Labor further and further to the socialist left,
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and conservatives are now wandering around looking for somewhere else to go,
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and they are deciding which minor party is going to be the Farage Reform Movement of Australia.
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Well, there's a lot that you've just said there, and I agree with pretty much all of it.
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And one of the things I've noticed just watching the mainstream media,
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and we've been talking about it on this show on the Opposition podcast,
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that there was immediately this push from the mainstream media, especially ABC,
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basically advising the Liberal Party, the irony that anyone would,
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the idea that anyone in the Liberal Party would be listening to the ABC,
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but I knew they would, the idea that, the reason why the Liberal Party lost so badly
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is because they're too Trumpish, they're too far right,
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they've gone to, and they need to come back to what they call the centre,
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I personally believe that they really lost because they stand for nothing,
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and their base are, you know, the true conservatives have found new homes,
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But, you know, people just think, if I'm going to buy a product,
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I might as well get the full thing, the real deal.
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So if I'm going to vote Labor, if you're going to be Labor-like,
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However, ABC has led this march, and it seems like the Liberal Party,
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as predicted, is following their lead into the election.
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Now they're following ABC's lead into complete self-destruction.
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Now, what do you know about the current leader that they've brought up
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What was the difference between them, politically,
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Well, first of all, Matt Canavan had a very good piece of advice,
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and that is don't listen to people who want you to lose,
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And for the last 20 or so years, the Liberal Party and the coalition
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have been listening to the voices on the left and the Labor Party
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and the ABC and the Guardian and all those sort of academics
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who want them to be destroyed and extinct as an ideology
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because they like the idea of public money flowing
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into their little socialist utopian dream for as long as possible.
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And so that is the first problem, is that they're listening
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As far as Trumpian politics, I'm sorry, but Peter Dutton couldn't be further
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There is nothing Trumpian about Dutton or the campaign in general.
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If there had been, they would have won in a landslide because let's remember,
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You have a video of Jacinta Price wearing Make Australia Great Again.
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Yeah, but Donald Trump is the person in conservative politics who won everything,
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He won so convincingly that there's not even a Democrat movement anymore.
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They're talking about going dark, woke to restore themselves because they're completely
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Farage went Trump in and he's just cleaned up both the Labor Party and the Tories.
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But as far as what we're talking about today in domestic politics and what's happened in
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the leadership battle, there's a lot of talk in the headlines about, oh, the first woman
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who's been elected leader of the Conservatives.
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They could have picked her if they wanted a woman.
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They only like playing this gender quota card because it's going to fit with their new
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And that's what all the talk is about Susan Leigh.
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I've heard her and Holly Hughes and others who are supporters of this movement saying
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we've got to get in touch with modern Australia and what modern audiences want and how great
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They selected Ted O'Brien as a deputy who has no social media presence at all in an era
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where social media is where the conversation of modern politics is happening.
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What they've done is made themselves feel better because their faction has won a leadership
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battle while their faction lost a federal election.
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Yes, it does feel like they've learned nothing.
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So I've heard people arguing, well, it doesn't.
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Nobody really wants the role now because this is the losing period.
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By the time you get to an election, she ain't going to be the leader.
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And this sort of politics where we hang on to our ideas and to the last possible moment
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to keep the touch powder ready for the next election, that might have worked when you
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had the luxury of a lot of seats at your disposal and a pretty general, passive and calm
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But right now, they are facing extinction-level politics.
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No, but if they don't convince their followers and the conservative movement in general that
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they can survive, Labour is going to push this narrative so far beyond view and promise
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so many things that entire generations are going to be more entrenched in socialist politics
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And there will not be an argument to win ideologically because economically, Australian voters will be
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So right now, the Liberals and the coalition in general have to forget about what's going
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to win them an election that they think in some three years' time.
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They have to put the best and strongest ideas forward to start rebuilding their party movement.
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And what they've done today is prove that they have no interest in conservatism as an idea,
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as a culture, as the future direction of Australia.
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They are more worried about their own election chances than they are about saving the Australian
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And I'm sure that's why people like Matt Canavan threw their hat into the ring because they
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But the Liberals and the coalition, the Nats, they weren't listening.
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Do you think that this is the death of the Liberal Party?
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Did she not run into the past election as the deputy behind Peter Dutton?
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What has she done or said that would earn her the opportunity to convince conservative voters?
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All I've seen so far from her in comments is that she is going to continue to drag the
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party towards things like gender quotas and more work politics.
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I doubt she's going to stand up and take the fight against net zero.
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Is she really going to challenge the narrative that we've all been ripped off for decades
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I don't think she's going to sit there and say, we need to get some nuclear power plants
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We need to get some coal fire power plants built.
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So if she wants a chance, then she had her chance to come out and say something strong
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today, she didn't, she could have said it at the end of the week last week when this
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She has not made any indication that we should give her the benefit of the doubt.
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If anything, they're going to lose more support as they stand for less.
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Because we don't, I don't see a Nigel Farage here.
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And one of the reasons we don't have a Farage and we don't have a Trump is because Australians
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have this weird behaviour in our political system where it's very difficult for a charismatic,
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strong voice to come up through a party because the party structure itself doesn't want somebody
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strong enough to reform the party because then the factions behind the party lose control.
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So everything in our major parties is designed to make sure the leaders are puppets and not
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And that is a problem that we cannot fix as voters.
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We have, it doesn't matter how many people join the party, the structure of the party will
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never allow a strong person to come through that could threaten the faces behind the scenes.
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And so basically we are on a path to destruction in which the whole thing is either going to be
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torn apart and rebuilt out of sheer necessity because there's nobody left, or maybe one of
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our major parties on the right will get their act together and start getting significant numbers,
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not to become a major party, but to form a proper alliance with somebody like the Nationals.
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So I could see a One Nation Nationals partnership which forces the Liberals to start listening to
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And that would probably be the most likely situation.
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Maybe there's a deal where a One Nation member is assured some place in Cabinet in response for,
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I don't know, rescuing the conservative cause for the Liberals.
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As far as being left to their own devices, I mean, the biggest problem is this.
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We all want to save for the conservative movement.
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The people in charge of this party think that they are saving the party from the far right
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And so you cannot force a rescue of a party that doesn't want to be rescued.
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They will have to learn this the hard way, just as all those socialist kids who voted for Labor
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to cancel all their debts will learn that at the end of the day, they are the ones who are
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But that was an argument that I was hearing from a lot of young kids that they're glad
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that they're going to be, their debts are going to be wiped.
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And it's like, you're missing, you're lacking some basic understanding.
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What's the difference between Albanese saying, I'm going to pay for your student debts.
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And if Dutton had proposed to pay for people's mortgages, what's the difference?
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Well, yes, I dare say, actually, I think the only point of difference that I would see
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in that is that those that think that they're getting away with their debts now, their uni
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debts, they're going to be around to pay for the debt in their taxes later on.
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Whereas those that the mortgages are paid for by taxpayer, they may not be around to really
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have to cover those costs later down the track.
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I have a whole bookshelf, Avi, of what's going to happen to this country under socialism if
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And I feel like everything is so predictable at the moment.
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As soon as I saw the narrative in the mainstream media, it was clear that the Liberals were going
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to go further to the left, were being gaslit to believe that the Conservative was too right
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wing into this election and that's why they lost.
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The Conservatives haven't seen the centre of politics for about 30 years.
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They wouldn't even know what the right wing looks like.
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This is the Conservative Party that argues against freedom of speech.
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Well, Susan Lay was one of the ones that pushed for the e-safety commissioner over Elon Musk
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with regards to that stabbing video of the bishop in Sydney.
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Like, you're talking about somebody that is insanely in support of censorship, even when
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Even when the victim of the attack himself is coming out and saying, no, I want the world
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But now, more broadly on the election, I think there is clearly one winner.
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It was the Labour Party because they've wiped the Liberal Party and not only wiped the Liberal
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Party, they turned what was left into more of the Labour Party.
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Then on top of that, they did wipe, at least in the lower house, they wiped the Greens and
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you're seeing, even just now, what's left of the Greens.
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Another Greens senator is quitting over allegations of bullying.
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I just find it so funny because how many people have now left?
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There's a bunch of them that all left citing bullying in the party of tolerance.
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But looking at the landscape, you've got no Greens, you've got no Liberal Party.
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Well, the problem is, Avi, we have maybe three generations of kids who have spent, from the
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time they're about four or five until they get to about 23, 24, at least, inside an education
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system that tells them that socialism is great, that it's an entitlement and they're
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doing a good thing by taking handouts from the state because by doing that, they are punishing
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They think that taking money, they're taking it from her and not from their fellow peers
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And you are trying to talk to this generation, whose reasoning for voting things like Green,
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by the way, when they interviewed them, is trees and stuff.
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So you're trying to have intellectual discussions about the security and future economic and cultural
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idea that is Australia with people who have never been challenged beyond a headline on
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And Labor is perfectly happy with that because they were never going to share power with the
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They were never going to share power with the Teals, especially when Adam Bant ran his hold
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Labor to account campaign line, which I'm sure Albanese was not a fan of.
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So they have now moved to consolidate all the breakaway groups.
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So the breakaway conservatives have voted for the Teals and now being folded into the
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Labor Party, even though they'd never traditionally do that in one step.
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And the Greens are now being pulled back into the Labor Party, giving them a majority, as you
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But the reason they have a majority is either they've been raised that way through an education
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system, which the Liberal Party completely ignored.
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And that is their own fault when they had the power to do so.
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When people are poor, they start losing touch with their values and their principles and
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If someone's saying to you, hey, I'm kind of evil, but here's $400 for your rent.
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Well, they're probably going to vote for that if they get poor enough to do so.
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And that's the trap of socialist politics as people become dependent on the state and they
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cannot break free because they've lost their personal finances and their ability to act as
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And that is a Labor dream to have an entire country that is tied to the Labor Party vote
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as almost as if they've become unionized by their poverty.
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And electing Susan Lay is basically surrendering.
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I do like your idea of, and I didn't think about it, I've never thought of it, is basically
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breaking up the coalition and One Nation and the Nationals forming their own kind of, it
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would be an alliance, almost something along the lines of what the Greens was to the Labor
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Party where they were forcing the agenda to go more left.
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I feel like that's what we at least need in our system.
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We need, you know, I was hoping in this election it would be One Nation for, I was hoping delusionally,
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but I did recognize that I didn't think that they were going to win.
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But I was hoping for a minority liberal government where One Nation holds enough for a balance
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of power to pull Dutton to the right on many issues where he's probably more comfortable
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just he just wouldn't have been, he would have been too gutless to stand there like they
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But I guess a coalition between One Nation and the Nationals, if they really do, you know,
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they agree on a lot more than they disagree and then pushing the Liberal Party into actually
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Do you see that being a possibility that that's where it's really going to go?
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There's so much animosity right now between the Liberals and the Nationals that it does
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kind of make sense, that idea that you presented.
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Oh, well, just to be clear, I was proposing a three-way and not splitting the coalition, but
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So that even if it wasn't particularly massively official, but there would be an agreement
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there that One Nation would help to secure the regions, because let's not forget, of
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all the parties in this election that did well on the right, One Nation is still holding
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And I do think that if parties like Gerard Rennig were to break away and die off, which
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they probably will, One Nation is going to absorb that.
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But if there's like every election, there's a Gerard Rennig.
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Like, let's say the Liberals got serious, right?
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If the Liberals and Nationals get serious about it, then voters who are on the conservative
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right are going to be less inclined to follow single person parties and more inclined to
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say, well, look, this one is attached to the Nationals.
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There's a real chance that they can make a difference.
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And I also think it will help the Liberals to bring back some of those people, even
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in city seats, who think, oh, well, at least they've got them inside their party.
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It would be a good way to start, stop that leak of votes out to the side, but also give
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the Liberals a bit of a heart and soul, which they are sorely lacking at the moment in this
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And besides, One Nation could say the things that Liberals won't say, and they can still
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So it's a mutually beneficial arrangement for the Conservatives.
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So, yes, I'd say that is the most likely way they could start crawling back into power,
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And as the anger towards things like renewable energy grows, and believe me, it is going to
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grow as some of these projects start to fall apart and reach the end of their life cycle,
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that anger will swell in the regions first, and there will be a movement back against all
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And that will hurt Labor, and it will hurt the Greens, and there will be votes there to
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And I don't think the Liberals have the nerve to say, sorry, we lied to you trying to win
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They're going to need someone who was honest from the start to help them bring those voters
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And so that would be my path back to sanity that's achievable.
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But only if the Liberals can bury the hatch and say, we made a mistake, and we're going
00:21:01.900
to let this happen so that we can, you know, overcome Albanese's socialist utopia.
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There's a lot of hopeful, a lot of things have to happen that I just can't see happening,
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including the Liberal Party actually recognising the real problem.
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But on top of that, I think one of the issues that now I've seen in every single election
00:21:26.840
There is a group, and in the lead up to the election, they seem almost more hell-bent on
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destroying what they see as their rival for that particular, those particular Senate spots
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usually, and so they, instead of really going after the Greens or the Labor Party, they tend
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to spend a big chunk of their campaigning against the other right-wing minor party, and
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then their preferences are always really funny because they're more focused, again, on punishing.
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So in that case, Gerard Rennick and One Nation, it was like they were just trying to punish
00:22:03.980
them, and so it ends up punishing everyone because at the end of the day, when you look at
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the numbers, no one ends up with a seat, when really, the Conservative bloc should have ended
00:22:20.560
I also agree that there were people in that election, on the minor party, who were there
00:22:24.540
for their own personal reasons to chase a vendetta, and they went for the easiest pickings,
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which is votes that parties who have been there for a long time and have been devoted to their
00:22:34.500
people for a long time, they thought, oh, we could just steal those votes.
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I thought that behaviour was pretty disgusting, to be honest, but my point is that you have
00:22:47.380
And so if you've got a minor Conservative party on the right who is officially in a
00:22:51.980
coalition with the major parties and has a chance of actually impacting policy in a
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positive way, then voters are far more likely to say, you know what, I'm going to go for
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the guys who actually have a shot, so I think that will help to moderate your problem, whereas
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those other parties have far less of an opportunity to divide votes and vote split if there's
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a genuine belief that the ones that are running are in a position to make a difference, so I
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You are right about there being difficulties to overcome, but there are some things we
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know are going to happen that will have an impact on these decisions, and one of those
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is the backlash in the regions, and that is going to happen, because that is a function
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They are going to go looking for people, so the Liberals will have to deal with that
00:23:42.500
Yeah, look, yeah, I'm hoping you're right about that, because I do, I remember, if you
00:23:53.940
That was in the last one, but he was like the Gerard Renick, he was like the Gerard Renick
00:23:58.220
that time, and then you have, and then this time obviously you have Gerard Renick, and you
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just see it splitting the vote of a group that essentially has been around for that long and has been
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consistently growing every single election, and I feel like that's the message that needs
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to be sent to the conservative voters, to the right-wing voters that are looking for
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so you don't have to agree with everything One Nation has done, but they've been consistent
00:24:25.080
for, you know, what is that, 25 years, and they've consistently been gradually growing,
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and they've turned into like something, a force to actually be reckoned with, and instead
00:24:36.840
of going after these United Trumpets or whatever they have, United Trumpets, I don't know, I'm
00:24:43.340
mixing all their names now, Trumpets or Patriots, United, yeah, United Patriots, whatever it's
00:24:50.660
called, that, like, each time there is another group that it seems just to destroy the one
00:24:59.120
group that is getting somewhere, that is making a move, and it's incredibly frustrating when I'm
00:25:07.560
actually happy if one of them win, I'm even happy if these Trumpets or whatever won, but it was so
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clear that they weren't going to, and when their whole preferences came out, it was so clear that
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they were designed as a vendetta rather than an actual real political party trying to get somewhere
00:25:24.020
outside of Clive Palmer's personal gain. And then with Gerard Rennick, it also became super clear to me
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that it's, you know, a lot of it was down to this infighting instead of progressing for something,
00:25:37.380
for policy, for an idea, and it's something that the left has managed to really do. If you look at,
00:25:43.960
you know, the Greens to the Socialists, all those little groups, they all sit there and prop each other
00:25:49.340
up, even though they're running in the same seats. Do you know what, Ms Avi, I miss the days when you
00:25:56.280
used to have a panel of your prospective candidates, including the major parties, and you made them sit
00:26:03.540
there and debate their ideology properly. Reporters actually said, hang on, you can't just give the
00:26:09.460
line, what are you actually going to do if this happens? Because the public are not being given
00:26:15.060
an opportunity to assess whether these people even know what they're talking about. And so our politics
00:26:19.880
has become performative. It's no longer about ideas. You talk beautifully about ideas, Avi, but
00:26:25.640
I don't think our politicians care about ideas. I don't think they care about policies unless it's
00:26:30.360
come out of a focus group. They think that people will vote for something. That's why we've descended
00:26:35.000
into this vote buying exercise, because there are no great ideas anymore in our culture. We have lost
00:26:40.500
that. And that is a tragedy. And we are going to have to learn this the hard way. And I feel very
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sorry for young generations, because they're going to be the ones that do the worst possible amount of
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learning in this case, where they're going to be the broke ones at the end of the day, because the
00:26:57.180
money is about to run out, if not almost a trillion dollars in debt, it's run out. And someone's going to
00:27:04.640
You know, I thought last time we were learning that hard lesson. In the last election, I thought,
00:27:10.460
oh, look at the wipeout. Remember that? We were crying about the Labour wipeout in, what was it?
00:27:20.780
Yeah. It was right after COVID. And we thought, gosh. And it was a wipeout then. And it was nothing
00:27:26.200
compared to what we are, what we're facing now. And yeah, it feels like today's news is we're digging
00:27:33.360
ourselves out, digging our way out of it. The Liberal Party is going to try to dig their way out of this
00:27:38.940
one. And there's no light at the end of this tunnel. Can't we have a Nigel Farage? Can't we find
00:27:46.160
somebody that, like technically it could work here. You could find somebody that, even though we have
00:27:52.100
a completely different system. In fact, I would have thought that our system is easier than the
00:27:57.880
British system in doing that because they don't have a preferential system. So it relies 100% on
00:28:06.300
your primary vote and it gets split. That's why in the UK, it's so, so the idea that Nigel Farage was
00:28:13.800
able to get up there and, you know, just last, a week and a half ago, win a seat against the Labor
00:28:21.020
Party, the Conservatives weren't even considered a player in that, in that fight. And Nigel Farage
00:28:28.200
won't. But it's, but when you vote, you're voting, it's your primary vote. That's all that counts. So
00:28:33.040
like if you have two Conservative parties, the Conservative, they're called the Tories. I think that's
00:28:37.760
England. The Tories and the, and, and then Nigel Farage's Reform Party, they're fighting. They're
00:28:45.240
like, they're like Gerard Rennick and, and, and One Nation here, but at least here, there's a
00:28:50.480
preferential system. So at least they can, they can preference each other. So if you really care about
00:28:56.000
ideology and you don't want to, you want to stop Labor and the Greens getting in, you just preference
00:29:01.380
each other second and the best man wins. But there it's literally your vote. So the two
00:29:07.460
Conservative groups are going against that. It's a misconception that preference voting makes it
00:29:13.880
easier for minor parties. First past the post, which is how our system was originally designed,
00:29:18.820
was designed that way because it's actually easier in a single election cycle to get a new voice up on a,
00:29:24.540
on a one run horse race with the primary vote that it is to sit there and do all this factional
00:29:30.020
games with other parties where a coalition of left-wing parties can keep a single powerful
00:29:34.500
right-wing voice out. That's why the left was so excited to vote for preference or voting. They
00:29:39.360
knew it would secure a power for a long time. It also entrenches major parties who do deals to
00:29:44.700
suffocate the minor parties. But in the, well, you can see in the UK, they are able to stage a
00:29:51.460
revolution with a new third party, as was the design of our system originally, because they kept
00:29:56.280
their system intact. And we are seeing right now with Farage exactly how our system is supposed to
00:30:01.460
work. If the Conservatives betray their ideas, a new party rises to replace them. And that is what
00:30:07.420
reform is. Reform is an adjustment to a broken system. And I feel like now I need to bring it,
00:30:13.240
I need to bring you back with, um, Topher Field and debate this one out. Yeah. I also,
00:30:19.980
I can also tell you that if, uh, compulsory voting keeps the vote in the centre away from radical
00:30:25.720
parties, and I've always disagreed with the libertarians of this one, because in practice,
00:30:29.380
every country that brings in voluntary voting starts shifting to the left, because the only
00:30:34.280
people motivated to vote are the young left-wing activists. And you start to have radical politics
00:30:39.080
out. The people who designed our system, Arby, were very smart. They knew what they were doing.
00:30:44.640
And a lot of people think they know better. And they have started to ruin our system of politics.
00:30:49.400
And look how hard it is now for us to fix our broken politics. We were talking earlier today,
00:30:53.760
what are we going to do? How do we fix it? We've made it very hard for ourselves,
00:30:58.220
thanks to the changes we made to the Westminster system. And that's, that's on our politicians
00:31:02.200
for doing that. They were chasing power. And guess what? They've given power to the left and
00:31:06.680
now they can't get it back. Um, you've given me a lot to think about there because I, I,
00:31:11.500
I, I hear what you're saying. And I, up until this conversation, I've been a avid supporter
00:31:17.720
of the preferential system, but do you, so you're just, I understand your, you support
00:31:22.560
compulsory voting because you think as soon as it's voluntary, then it, it will shift
00:31:29.120
It is a fact, a statistical fact of countries and nations history that, but how do you explain,
00:31:35.600
like, look, look at America, Trump, but just wait, compulsory voting. Well, there's always
00:31:40.800
a few people who don't know what they're voting for. And that's the case, whether it's compulsory
00:31:44.240
or not, right? So you can't use a few outliers when the moms and dads and people who aren't
00:31:49.040
really politically engaged get to the polling booth. Are they going to vote for the psycho radical
00:31:54.320
socialist with communism as us on the side with green hair and whatever else, or are they going
00:31:59.040
to vote for the party that looks sort of mostly normal? They're going to vote for the mostly
00:32:02.320
normal party. And so what happens is you end up with a bulk of people in the center who hold the
00:32:07.120
weight of politics toward normality and reason. And you have a few little voices there to pull and,
00:32:12.720
you know, and change our culture just a little bit, but it's manageable. And that was always the
00:32:17.120
point of having compulsory voting is it keeps politics moving slowly and not radically because what you
00:32:23.360
don't want is radical, swift politics because it's like a car going too fast. It veers off into
00:32:29.600
oblivion like we see with dictatorships where there's one person in charge who can change things
00:32:34.400
in a moment, but that's not good for the future and longevity of a country, which is why we had
00:32:40.640
compulsory voting. But you have to pair it with first pass the post if you want the system to work
00:32:45.520
properly. We broke one bar of that system and now we're suffering. If we want to do something good,
00:32:50.000
Arby, we should restore our political system to what it was designed because it was designed very
00:32:54.560
well and we broke it. Maybe that's what we can do. I'm excited. I'm excited to organize this debate
00:32:59.440
because you do make a super compelling argument that makes me question my own view on this,
00:33:08.080
which is good. That's the point of conversations. And I've always been somebody that thought no,
00:33:13.920
preferential voting is good because it allows minor parties to get in there and have a go because they
00:33:20.400
can form some sort of preference dealing that gives them a chance against the major parties. But
00:33:30.400
your points are super valid there. And I think the proof that works for your argument is the whole
00:33:38.720
Farage thing. I thought it would work against him. But it kind of seems complicated though,
00:33:44.000
because the fact that Farage can do it means he needs to get that many more because it's the Tories
00:33:50.880
and Farage fighting over essentially the same side of politics, the same voters, although
00:33:59.440
Farage is also appealing to working class as well. So he's pulling a few that would vote.
00:34:06.480
But is it compulsory? Let me explain it this way, Avi. What we've done is turned our politics into a war
00:34:12.800
of attrition, which is not just one election cycle, but it's almost a sequence of elections where all
00:34:20.720
these preference deals are put in place. And, you know, people got vendettas from previous elections
00:34:25.680
and this and that. So the total vote of all the preferences is that it's not fresh every election.
00:34:31.280
It's this thing that keeps rolling and rolling and rolling. What the system was originally,
00:34:35.200
and what Farage has now is its fresh clean slate. Is it compulsory in the UK?
00:34:41.680
No, but it used to be, I think. And they're seriously considering maybe it should be because
00:34:47.840
they've got the same problem that I was talking about, which is all the new people are radicalised
00:34:51.360
to vote and they're having trouble getting all the normal people to go and vote at the polls.
00:34:55.600
So same deal. The problem I'm talking about, they were talking about themselves.
00:34:59.600
But with the preferencing, which is what I want to talk about, Nigel Farage has to tell that one
00:35:05.520
seat, if you vote for us this time around, we can make a change. He doesn't have to say the last
00:35:10.800
five elections or whatever else, or the deals. He doesn't have to overcome all the parties. He only
00:35:15.200
has to come primary vote. So he doesn't have to beat everyone's second and third and fourth
00:35:19.120
preferences. He just has to get the total majority once. And so it's easier for a party like Farage
00:35:26.400
to win the popular vote than it is to win against the preferences of all the other parties. So like
00:35:31.920
if the Tories and Labor collude, how is a minor party ever going to get up if the two major parties
00:35:38.240
Yeah, but that's true if the Tories and... I get what you're saying in that situation.
00:35:46.960
No, no, you're right, because they used to put One Nation behind...
00:35:50.560
This was the first election that One Nation was actually before
00:35:53.280
Labor for the Liberals, I believe. So in the case over there, if...
00:35:59.200
So unless the Tories and Labor colluded to put reform last, so then their two votes will count
00:36:12.080
He wouldn't be able to do it, sure. That's assuming that they would collude.
00:36:15.440
So right now he's saying, I'm the best party, and everyone's going, okay, well,
00:36:19.440
we're going to give you a shot, and they can give these new parties a shot. And so every election is
00:36:25.280
fresh. Every election is a one-off. Can you make the popular vote? And Farage is like, yep, did it.
00:36:32.880
I feel like I need somebody... I need a maths expert to help me unpack that, because like...
00:36:39.520
Because there's also the question of whether Farage and the Tories then... Because they would
00:36:45.600
naturally preference each other unless the Tories go, no, hold on. For us, it's better to keep it a
00:36:51.280
two-party system. So we'll talk to Labor. We'll say to them, let's just both keep out the
00:36:57.600
reform and then make it into a two-party race by both preferencing him later. But it could go
00:37:03.440
either way. The Tories and reform could join for... I think the point is, if you're running a horse race,
00:37:11.920
do you want the winner of the horse race to actually win, the person who crosses the line,
00:37:15.840
or do you want the winner to be declared of all the people behind the horse?
00:37:19.200
No, I do agree with that. But what's... So what's the counter-argument? The counter-argument that...
00:37:25.520
I've talked about this with Topher, which again, I'm organizing this debate because I'm truly
00:37:30.320
fascinated by it, is the argument is that, let's say you have, you know, in the case... So you have
00:37:38.240
three people running, which they'll say is like in the UK where it's Farage, the Conservatives,
00:37:46.400
and Labor Party. And the thing is, you don't want to lose. So if you have... So really, there's people
00:37:54.560
are split, like they share more values. Like the people that are voting for the Conservatives share
00:37:59.680
more values with Farage, but they want to give Farage a chance. But if Farage fails, their ideals
00:38:06.880
mostly align or more align with the Conservatives over Labor. So they would want their... their vote
00:38:15.200
realistically should flow on to their next best option because that's what more... that's where
00:38:24.320
And that's what happens in Australia. So the proof, Avi, and is... we actually have... we've got the
00:38:30.720
great benefit of having two systems which show us what the result is.
00:38:34.400
So the result of the philosophy is, if you do what you've just said there, which is,
00:38:38.160
oh, I want my vote to mostly align to what I kind of think, is that you get the entrenching of two
00:38:44.080
major parties. Politics starts to split into two sides with nothing in the middle, with no minor
00:38:49.920
parties because they can't overcome these major parties. And so in the end, those two major parties
00:38:55.120
no longer have to worry about minor parties raising up and winning a couple of seats like Farage is doing.
00:38:59.520
They don't have to worry about that because they're unlikely to do so. And if they do so,
00:39:03.120
the two major parties collude and get rid of them, right? So what's happening is Australian
00:39:07.200
politics is the end form of this system where we've got two parties which are almost identical.
00:39:12.400
They're too frightened to debate each other on real core issues because they're frightened of losing
00:39:16.080
elections. And there's no real minor party support because they can't beat the collusion of preference
00:39:21.360
voting. And politics is spiralling into this nasty, almost pseudo dictatorship because of that.
00:39:28.240
Preferencing is giving a least worst option as a default. It's almost saying the primary race doesn't
00:39:34.720
matter anymore. We're looking for the least worst with our fourth or fifth preference. That is not a
00:39:39.680
good way to produce healthy politics. The best way is to scare the heck out of the major parties
00:39:45.120
every time and say, look, it's a clean slate. Anyone can win every seat every time. And sometimes
00:39:50.560
you get surprised. It's like if there's a really good candidate in a local seat like we saw with Farage,
00:39:55.440
will they get elected because they like them? And then they don't have to worry about preference
00:39:59.440
deals. They were the most popular person and suddenly they're standing there as the winner.
00:40:03.280
Now you have like that is how you get them in. And it took Farage two goes, don't forget. It was two
00:40:09.280
real election goes before people went, yeah, you know what? We're joining the movement now. He's becoming
00:40:14.400
unstoppable. We may never get to that point because our preferencing is sending minor parties into this,
00:40:21.040
as you described earlier, sort of vanity projects and destructive forces and whatever,
00:40:27.360
because they know they're never going to get elected. We know that. You know that. What are
00:40:31.360
the libertarians going to do at 1%? Nothing. They know they can't win a seat. And so that's going to
00:40:37.040
die out eventually. We don't want that. What we want is a Farage who can win a seat because he's got a
00:40:42.160
great candidate first go. I love it. I love this conversation. I feel like I'm not equipped to
00:40:49.760
actually, and I don't actually have a position. I've always thought I had a position until this
00:40:54.320
conversation. And you make some super valid point. Would you be up for a debate with our
00:40:59.120
friend Topher Field on this issue? I will organize it.
00:41:01.760
Sure. I want a reformation and a restoration of conservative politics.
00:41:06.640
Well, that's the beauty of this is that you both want the same outcome.
00:41:10.880
You should look at the model that works, right? If something's working, then you have to ask serious
00:41:17.200
questions about why is that working? And it's not just for us, because it's happened in Australia
00:41:22.960
before we changed our system. The Menzies Party is a great example that it was possible here
00:41:28.960
before we made changes. And the only change we made was preferencing.
00:41:35.840
Look, I'm going to organize this and we're going to have it. And because I want some more clarity from
00:41:43.440
two people that have completely opposing views on this issue, but both share pretty similar wishes for
00:41:53.120
the outcome. So it'll be interesting to hear that play out. And both of you know a lot more about
00:42:00.000
what you're talking about than I do. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to execute the arguments. I love it.
00:42:05.600
I'm sure I'll get shouted at the comments, Avi, but I don't necessarily, I don't, I don't agree.
00:42:12.320
I think you might actually, I don't know how it would play out. The thing is, I don't know why this is
00:42:17.760
the first time I've had a conversation where these arguments from someone, somebody I respect
00:42:24.240
have made them from somebody that wants the outcome to want, want it to fall the same way I do. But
00:42:33.920
make me think that making me question my view of it all in how I've always perceived it and the way
00:42:41.440
that I look at it and thought that it was, that it actually is a good system. But now I do question
00:42:48.080
it. So it's all because I don't think, I don't think the comments, I don't think people feel that
00:42:55.440
strongly about it. So that's why I say Topher Field. He's somebody that does advocate it. And
00:43:00.240
that's the only reason why I even know anything about it, because I've talked to him about it and
00:43:04.960
he's done his marble thing and he's, you know, that, that was kind of his shtick. And I, and I interviewed
00:43:10.160
him about it and he educated me on it and I never really questioned it because I don't think I've
00:43:17.440
ever heard. I don't, I don't disagree with Topher Field's marble. Topher Field has explained how to
00:43:22.560
work the system properly that we have. No, no, no. But he also made, in that same interview that I had
00:43:27.760
with him, he argues that it's a great system. It's actually better. It's the best system is I'm pretty
00:43:34.080
sure what he says. Um, and for the, for the reasons that I kind of probably stuffed up when I,
00:43:41.200
when I, um, gave, presented him now, he, he, he's a lot more across it. So he, he articulated it in a
00:43:49.440
way that was very compelling. I've never really heard the counter to it. And I don't think that
00:43:53.840
this is an issue that let's say my viewers feel particularly strong about. We never really thought
00:43:59.280
about it. We've, we knew this was our system. Uh, I've spoken to people like Topher who advocate
00:44:04.800
for the system, explain how to use the system to get to the outcome that we are trying to achieve.
00:44:11.360
But then there is you who also wants to achieve that same outcome, but you're saying, hold on,
00:44:16.400
I think our system's stuffed. We need to go back to what our system used to be. I think I've, I've, uh,
00:44:22.400
summarized that properly. And I am going to organize, uh, some random extra, we'll do a live
00:44:28.080
feed, uh, debate on it, which I don't even know if people will want to tune in because is it that
00:44:33.120
dry that people don't care? I'm fascinated. I want to hear you both, uh, put, putting your position
00:44:40.960
forward and then letting each other, uh, you know, uh, dismantle it or, or, um, make the stronger
00:44:49.200
argument for it. It'll, it'll be fascinating. But now this has been a great conversation before I
00:44:53.600
let you go. I just want to hear what you've been up to. What are you doing these days and where
00:44:58.240
people can find you? But besides the debate that's coming up. Of course, of course. Uh,
00:45:04.560
as always, I am the online editor of the spectator. So I write, uh, spectator pretty much every single
00:45:11.440
morning. Uh, you can always find me on my Twitter, which is just Ellie Milly. Uh, and what I'm doing is
00:45:18.480
I'm going to start getting back into interviewing. I really, really miss having great conversations
00:45:24.000
like these with people like you, Avi. Uh, so in a few weeks, I think I'm going to set back up and
00:45:30.080
if you guys have got any people you'd like to hear me interview or talk to, I'm just going to do it
00:45:34.320
quietly on my own. So, uh, no, no big overarching, uh, corporation or anything, just me with a camera
00:45:41.120
and I'd like to have some chats with interesting people and topics exactly like this, which are not
00:45:45.760
discussed enough, uh, in the press. And I think we could all, uh, have a good time and, uh, learn
00:45:51.120
something. So, uh, that's just keep following me online really. So, um, cause you just sparked a
00:45:58.320
thought in my head when you said you're, uh, what are you the editor for spectator? I'm the online
00:46:04.080
editor for the spectator. The online editor for the spectator. You've got the editor in chief of the
00:46:08.960
the spectator is Rowan Dean. Correct? That's correct. Yes. Who one hour ago tweeted or posted,
00:46:16.960
whatever you call it these days. Congratulations to Susan for an outstanding victory in today's
00:46:24.160
Liberal Party ballot. A lot of extra letters in it. How am I meant to read that?
00:46:30.960
I, I think you can, uh, read the extra letters as a humorous comment on, uh, Susan Lay's, uh,
00:46:40.400
what is it? Is it numerology that she's into? Uh, I'm sure you should be reading that one with a
00:46:46.080
slight grin and a raised eyebrow. Alexandra, thanks so much for your time. Did you tell people,
00:46:52.800
I know I was looking up for the tweet. Did you tell everyone where to find you?
00:46:55.360
Yes, I did. My Twitter account's the best place to go. It's just at Ellie Melly.
00:47:02.400
Till next time, till the debate. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much.
00:47:08.960
So we're at that part of the show where I get to read your comments from throughout the week,
00:47:12.160
because yes, as a Rebel News Plus subscriber, I encourage you to go on the website to all my
00:47:17.680
reports throughout the week and get involved in the conversation, leave a comment. And every
00:47:21.760
Wednesday night at the end of the show, this part of the show, I will go through the comments. So
00:47:26.080
let's start here. Um, this was a story about the unhinged Hamas activists abusing, uh, the pastor
00:47:32.720
and his daughter in Sydney. Brent says they don't care about Palestine. They want communism.
00:47:39.280
Palestine is just the alibi. That is very, very true. And, uh, whether it's communism or just
00:47:46.800
general Jew hatred, Palestine is always just their alibi. Well said, uh, Bruce, thanks for coming
00:47:54.240
back and commenting how pathetic that woman is. So many people work themselves into insanity because
00:48:01.200
they can't stand any difference of opinion. It's hard, but we must pity such pathetic people to a degree.
00:48:10.720
My, my sympathy goes so far, but these people can be dangerous as well. But thanks for the comment,
00:48:19.040
Bruce. Um, this, uh, story was regarding the election, the election fallout. This was the
00:48:26.880
live that we did, and we're going to be doing a lot more lives. So if you haven't already, uh,
00:48:31.680
hit the notification buttons on my YouTube, do it. I'm starting to do a lot of lives. That's why we
00:48:35.600
push this show to Wednesday night. Cosas says in being satisfied because the leader of the
00:48:43.600
greens has lost his seat. You are not only taking into account his contribution, legalizing vapes
00:48:49.760
in Australia, which are now sold in pharmacies without, without a prescription. And you are also
00:48:55.120
not taking into account his and his party's support for cannabis legalization and decriminalization,
00:49:02.960
which is vital in Australia for smoking to remain the legitimate and legal in widest possible range
00:49:10.080
and reinforces this important cause existing in Australia. Maybe you should look at all aspects
00:49:17.520
of the same fact to determine your opinion about in the, about it in terms of your interests. Um,
00:49:25.600
um, I guess what you're saying is that you're, uh, from reading that, I'm assuming you're,
00:49:32.880
you think he did good work in legalizing cannabis and decriminalization or not?
00:49:40.160
Are you taking into parties? Uh, I, there's a lot of conflation that I, I don't know. Um, I, I,
00:49:46.240
I'm certainly not. The fact that Adam Batt lost his seat, uh, he's done a lot in that period.
00:49:51.840
Uh, some of this, um, I can't, I don't know if you're saying that this is good stuff or bad stuff.
00:49:56.720
I'd argue that much of the legalization and decriminalization is not good. Um, coming from
00:50:05.680
somebody that, uh, had experience with, I think we've got to separate cannabis and decriminalization
00:50:12.000
of harder drugs. I have less of a problem with, uh, cannabis. Uh, that's something we should definitely
00:50:17.200
debate in the country and come to a national, uh, uh, agreement on, on policy nationwide.
00:50:25.040
Shouldn't have different states. It's crazy in America how they do that as well. But decriminalization
00:50:29.040
of harder drugs are as somebody that has a long history of drug use in my teen into young adult
00:50:35.680
life. Um, I don't know if decriminalizing, if you look around the world, anywhere that decriminalize
00:50:40.480
is not a good idea. So if you think that that's a good thing he's done, uh, uh, I'd, I'd argue,
00:50:45.360
maybe not, um, I wouldn't give him credit for that. But if you're saying that I'm not taking
00:50:52.000
into account how he has negatively infected, uh, affected and impacted, uh, Australia, I, I,
00:50:59.600
I'm not taking that away from him. The Greens has done, I've done a lot of horrible things.
00:51:03.760
Um, we were just celebrating for a day that he actually lost his seat, but I appreciate your
00:51:07.520
comment, whether I agree with it or not. Um, maybe next, next comment, clarify what you thought.
00:51:14.640
Costas, Costas, and thank you for your message. Um, on Abby Chatfield crashing out, we did a lot
00:51:24.000
of an Abby lately, um, uh, in her post-election meltdown, obviously she was running the Greens
00:51:29.200
campaign. Bruce, thanks for coming back. Bruce says, people like that show how petty and mean they
00:51:36.480
are just by writing or speaking. Socialists are the ones who are isolated and miserable,
00:51:41.840
people. And they are the oppressors of women by wanting trans males to play against women
00:51:46.960
and to invade their washrooms and changing rooms. They sure do project a lot. And I wish their
00:51:53.440
projection bulb would burn out. In fact, Bruce, uh, that was early on. We did a lot more about, um,
00:51:59.760
Abby since then. We did a whole live feed that was about her crashing out. And it, it, it goes more to
00:52:04.320
your point in fact. And, and I don't know if you're probably, but if you know, Abby, um, everything
00:52:10.000
about her is, uh, hypocritical and a lot of it is projection. If you watch our last live feed, you may
00:52:17.040
have, uh, you'd see that. Um, with the vegan activists declaring bankruptcy, these are two of the
00:52:26.080
most menacing vegans in Australia. John said somewhat, uh, someone wanted attention. Well,
00:52:33.120
now she has it. So true, John, everything was about attention for her. And finally, um, she's
00:52:41.920
received a bit of a taste of her own menacing. They, they've been menacing and they've
00:52:46.080
targeted innocent people over nothing. You know, if you want to be a vegan, a vegetarian, whatever,
00:52:51.680
you do you, but, uh, the way they attack people eating dinners or, or, or private businesses,
00:52:58.160
it was horrible. And I'm glad to hear that they threw the book at her. Bruce back again,
00:53:03.760
what a wacko humans are radically different from animals. This self-righteous woman and her followers
00:53:10.320
think they have the right to pull stunts. Exactly what I was talking about. All that does
00:53:13.840
is anger, ordinary and sane folks. And for the stupid people, I don't agree with animal cruelty.
00:53:22.240
Uh, neither do I agree that animals are people. I have to explain this for those who are hard of
00:53:27.920
thinking. So true. I'm with you. I have a dog, actually right now we're also dog sitting another
00:53:34.960
dog. I love animals. I used to have a cat who unfortunately died about a year ago, but, um,
00:53:42.720
love animals. I cried when my cat died, but, uh, so there's a difference between animal cruelty and,
00:53:50.160
um, eating and, and, and, and, you know what, and, and trying to encourage people to be vegan,
00:53:54.560
whether it's for health reasons or whatever, uh, I'd, I'd, I'd say that's up for debate,
00:54:00.320
but even if it's for moral reasons, um, there's a way to go about it. And the way that these two
00:54:05.520
carry on, I'm glad again, that they've thrown the book at him, my good friend, Roman, the road,
00:54:11.760
road rager who backpedaled on his Hamas defense after about 25 minutes in discussion. We saw the
00:54:18.000
true Roman come out, even though I thought he, um, had changed his ways and, um, I'm not going to
00:54:23.440
read these two, but thank you guys for your comments because I can see they're both about
00:54:28.320
something that I didn't even realize when watching it back because I wasn't looking at Roman's hand
00:54:32.960
or his genitals, but it seems like Roman was playing with himself almost the whole debate or
00:54:39.680
a good portion of the debate, which is weird now that I think of it. But thank you for the comment,
00:54:44.880
guys. And last but not least, another Greens senator has quit. I think this is the third or fourth
00:54:53.200
due to bullying. So the tolerant party isn't as tolerant as they'd like you to think.
00:55:00.800
But imagine my shock and John says, the sociopaths always float to the top. Exactly. Guys,
00:55:07.840
thanks for tuning in tonight. Make sure to tune in on, uh, to the opposition podcast now,
00:55:14.000
Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7pm. You can go either on the website as a Rebel News Plus subscriber,
00:55:20.240
you'll get right in. So the opposition.show or go to YouTube, if you've got a YouTube channel
00:55:26.000
and go to Avya Mini on YouTube and hit that notification bell so that you get the updates
00:55:31.200
when it comes out. Until next week, see you later and take care.