Rebel News Podcast

00:00:00.000 hey everyone hi drea how are you doing hi you're you're there yeah yeah we're all here so welcome

00:00:23.360 back to our evening live stream everyone here with the emergencies act inquiry that is happening

00:00:28.280 between october 13th to november 25th we will be here covering all the proceedings to figure out

00:00:34.660 whether or not justin trudeau used the emergencies act justifiably and necessarily i must say

00:00:41.740 currently it's not going well in his favor uh draft first day you're watching the proceedings i'm here

00:00:46.680 with tom morazzo one of the freedom convoy organizers i will be testifying next week in front of the

00:00:52.500 committee um draft first time coming on the show first time live tweeting everything that's going

00:00:57.420 on what was your general impression of the day yeah a lot of firsts for me you know i'm just

00:01:02.660 going to throw back to the fact that aside from covering the truckers that left british columbia

00:01:09.040 and you know waving off and not really grasping how big it was going to be at the time uh you know i

00:01:15.220 haven't done a whole lot of these reports so i'm really excited to be jumping in and boy did i get

00:01:20.480 a crash course with the commission coming back from germany and trying to catch up on everything

00:01:25.500 you guys have been uh covering and everything that's been happening in the hearing so

00:01:30.380 it was fun and i'm glad to be a part of it yeah no so drea you were kind of the specialist say you

00:01:37.340 were the lead journalist life tweeting everything that was going on so can you give us your professional

00:01:42.420 analysis of what you saw today during the inquiry well today in the hot seat was uh opp commissioner

00:01:52.020 how do you pronounce his name kirk her oh gosh no no yeah the commissioner of the inquiry is rule

00:02:01.240 but uh the opp commissioner is thomas carrick carrick yeah something like that so he was uh questioned i

00:02:10.800 think by five uh lawyers and counting and he was very quick with his answers i found i think there was

00:02:18.760 only one sigh that he gave the whole time um but some interesting things came up out of there i'm not

00:02:25.060 sure where to start what do we have on that we were looking at some tweets there uh he did admit that

00:02:31.900 in large the convoy was all the intel that they received was that it was in fact a peaceful convoy and

00:02:40.120 when i started off my tweets in the beginning of the day that's exactly what i said you know this is an

00:02:44.280 inquiry looking in to uh how the emergency act was used on the peaceful convoy and you always have

00:02:51.140 people saying well peaceful peaceful peaceful and it's like no that's what it was and considering

00:02:56.260 its size um i think he used the term that there was just sort of a fringe small fringe made it in

00:03:03.160 there but that they had a plan for the fringe and that certainly wasn't the bulk of who was coming

00:03:10.000 to ottawa yeah you know and i think the protest being peaceful is what's going to come out of the

00:03:16.700 inquiry because we keep seeing that every single day the the more left-leaning lawyers the lawyers

00:03:23.280 are leaning more against the the freedom convoy the protest took place in february are trying to push

00:03:29.120 answers onto the the people that are testifying to make them say it wasn't peaceful and yet at the end

00:03:34.340 of the day when we have the cross examinations by miller by everyone we end up seeing that they saw the

00:03:39.600 protest is peaceful the evidence says that they was peaceful the evidence says that the protesters were

00:03:44.480 peaceful and i think the phrase that once again keeps coming up every single day is helpful but not

00:03:50.540 necessary and that's the whole reason why we're here tom what were your general impressions from today

00:03:55.120 well i you know i have to say i was uh you know again i i noticed the difference the strong

00:04:01.920 difference between the testimony of the opp officers versus the ottawa police officers uh both both

00:04:09.520 groups of police try to portray portray themselves as being professional but i don't think that the

00:04:15.640 ottawa police ever came off as being even remotely as professional as the ottawa or the uh provincial

00:04:21.500 police uh and the commissioner today you know again demonstrated that and uh just a just an

00:04:28.720 extremely different perspective that the two of them had in their approach to to uh this entire

00:04:36.360 protest and you know again we had another acknowledgement especially with uh brendan

00:04:42.240 miller's cross-examination of of the commissioner um at the end like he he did a great job of of his

00:04:49.200 cross-examination of the commissioner because again he got he got the commissioner to confirm

00:04:54.620 what inspector bowden had already said uh previously in the week that the emergency act wasn't required it

00:05:01.540 didn't meet the threshold for the csesis act under section two therefore the there was no requirement

00:05:07.580 for the emergency act and he actually started to to walk him down the path of you know you know

00:05:14.500 peaceful assembly versus unlawful assembly and uh he he played it played it brilliantly i have to say

00:05:21.720 again another another day like we we actually just refer to it as miller time uh when brendan gets up

00:05:27.660 there it's just miller time right yeah and uh it's it's really um really fun to watch brendan when

00:05:34.920 he gets up there and uh again you know the important thing is you know the testimony really solidified for

00:05:42.460 me today that the only thing the only thing that anybody got out of the emergency act was that they

00:05:49.140 were literally able to compel legally compel the tow truck companies that's it they had every power that

00:05:56.000 they needed available to them they invoked the emergency act for tow trucks and i'm not going

00:06:02.140 to say too much unless eva decides to do it when she comes on yes coming on later right but uh there

00:06:07.560 there's going to be some testimony from some of the uh the participants of the legal protest that

00:06:14.240 happened in february um you know that is really going to contrast what you know the need to go and get

00:06:22.760 commandeer tow trucks versus the uh i would say disproportionate amount of violence that was

00:06:29.780 brought upon the protesters there yeah and and i think people are going to be quite disturbed when

00:06:35.140 they hear that testimony i think tow trucks are it's something that we hear a lot uh talked about

00:06:40.440 in the inquiry they often talk about the tow trucks they talk about compelling tow trucks

00:06:44.460 to actually throw to actually tow the trucks that were uh there during the freedom convoy um dra what

00:06:51.740 was the most remarkable thing today if you could pinpoint to one exact thing that you you saw happen

00:06:56.960 the most revealing thing during the inquiry uh the most revealing thing i think was the discussions

00:07:02.820 around the intel so you know we've seen this many times uh you know not even just specific to the

00:07:10.060 convoy but the freedom movement in general there's all this hysteria that goes on about what the pro

00:07:15.980 three pro freedom people might do and you saw a lot of that through the intel you know despite them

00:07:21.960 knowing that at large this is a peaceful protest they're looking into these different movements and

00:07:27.640 and doing all these things one of the movements um that they apparently looked into was the white lives

00:07:33.980 matter i don't know how i missed that movement i don't have you guys heard of that or what first

00:07:41.560 time i've ever heard it yeah exactly first time i ever heard it as well and so i'm thinking what kind

00:07:47.540 of movement is this at this point are they just calling normal regular people who do believe white

00:07:53.040 lives matter some sort of movement and but that was used as reasoning to sort of defend the action and

00:07:59.920 then also another thing that i've seen just from stories i've covered is that there was concerns and

00:08:05.280 extra police deployed i believe this was actually in ontario um maybe for the convoy that was happening

00:08:12.200 there but they they deployed extra police to surround vaccine clinics and i don't know about you but i

00:08:20.100 haven't heard of any pro-freedom protesters like doing anything at vaccine clinics in fact i covered a

00:08:27.660 protest that was outside of douglas college in new westminster because a student wouldn't wear a

00:08:35.200 mask and ended up getting arrested and so that protest was right outside of the college and just

00:08:41.480 so happened to be uh that the college was next door to a vaccine clinic so what happened was everybody

00:08:48.120 in there was having a heart attack thinking the protest was about them and the news ran with that

00:08:54.680 story saying that protesters targeted vaccine clinics there was people coming from their apartment

00:09:01.620 building huffing and puffing about uh how they're there and people were like we're here for douglas

00:09:06.660 college and of course my story was accurate but my point is you could see that the police i mean granted

00:09:12.820 they have to have some things in place especially with a large protest of any um nature to keep the peace

00:09:19.080 but they were going off of these things they even mentioned that they looked into um you know some

00:09:24.740 of the eco protests that happened but i don't recall any eco protests getting their uh you know bank

00:09:31.860 account seized or the emergencies act being used so yeah that that stood out quite a bit yeah drea earlier

00:09:38.700 you mentioned the white lives matter comment that was uh mentioned in the commission let's through that

00:09:44.740 let's watch what actually happened yeah and he says here that there has also understandably

00:09:52.380 been a significant appetite for this information from government and the public right yes and that

00:09:58.400 suggests does it not that that's an appropriate appetite to um you know in consequence of the

00:10:04.560 significant spike in these type of crime occurrences sorry did you say an appropriate appropriate

00:10:10.460 yeah i don't see anything inappropriate about it yes he says um hendon has these matters in our

00:10:17.180 intelligence collection plan and has been capturing much of this information from all of our services

00:10:22.040 and he references the white lives matter movement patriots movement anti-government activity and

00:10:27.240 extremist entities engaged in anarchism environmental issues etc right yes he does and the appetite for

00:10:35.440 that information is therefore understandable in the view of superintendent morris of 2021

00:10:41.260 that's what he's communicating yes

00:10:44.600 and he says here that there has also understand

00:10:50.480 you know so sorry about laughing but we have eva chip one of the lawyers for the freedom convoy that

00:10:56.740 just entered our our rbnd so we're going to be able to have her on in about 15 minutes but

00:11:02.320 you know you were one of the organizers of the convoy so were any of these organizations directly

00:11:06.960 associated with you guys when you were planning to do this peaceful protest well um we we often

00:11:14.080 use the phrase uh moths to a flame okay and the convoy was the flame and so you know we knew from day

00:11:23.100 one that uh there would be uh groups even the opp and all the police i mean i think everybody accepts

00:11:29.320 the fact that you have something that big and exciting that it is going to attract all sorts

00:11:34.840 of course all walks of life right so it's it wasn't a surprise to us i mean as much as we were

00:11:40.660 anticipating there there would be people you know the the queen of canada showed up

00:11:46.220 whatever what's her name i don't even want to say romana the queen she showed up right

00:11:50.900 and burned the canadian flag right so we we attracted uh i think there was a witch's covenant

00:11:56.300 that showed up as well um but equally you know for for people that we were looking at that we wanted

00:12:02.640 to be distanced from we were also constantly looking for people that would maybe be um there as as

00:12:10.160 deliberate provocateurs and i'm happy to hear that so far in the testimony i haven't heard any discussion

00:12:15.900 about the police trying to do anything like that but we were kind of on the lookout of thinking that

00:12:21.060 there might be deliberately uh people out there trying to incite a reaction from the convoy uh so

00:12:27.080 we were we were diligent for both groups but uh white lives matter i certainly never heard of until

00:12:32.620 just a few moments ago you know i was shocked when i heard that because i mean i've spoken with you

00:12:38.060 a little bit since the the this inquiry started never once have i heard that group mentioned but

00:12:43.740 you you talked about agent provocateurs that came to the crowd and and honestly i think we've heard

00:12:49.180 that once uh so far in the inquiry but talking about the swastika flag that was flew that was there

00:12:57.100 during the convoy i know someone i believe it was jim watson one of the first witnesses stated

00:13:01.720 that there was an enormous amount of swastika flags that flew in the crowd during the convoy which we all

00:13:08.120 know is not the case but can you touch on that incident yeah you know this was this is a one-time

00:13:14.440 events right one-time occurrences and especially the the person who showed up with the

00:13:18.580 confederate flag this person had a hoodie on and a mask and was walking around the flag around the

00:13:25.040 crowd and i remember the truckers calling this person out and uh you know danny bulford identified

00:13:32.420 the photographer that was taking as trudeau one of trudeau's official photographers because that

00:13:39.300 particular photographer uh went on a trip to africa that danny had participated in when he was an rcmp

00:13:47.060 interesting sniper and so you know we knew that there was going to be this attempt to uh discredit

00:13:54.020 the the entire organization i mean this is this is a clear case of um you know painting everybody with

00:14:02.460 the same brush and unfortunately because the the mainstream media is so effective that it actually

00:14:10.140 convinced a lot of canadians to turn their back on on the reality and you know a lot of canadians that

00:14:15.260 are against the convoy never looked at the fact that why is it and we heard a lot of testimony that

00:14:20.560 we heard about protests across ontario that i had never even heard or knew existed and i'll come back

00:14:26.400 to that point later sure but i thought it was really interesting that you have all these protests

00:14:31.460 happening all over ontario all across the country and yet the people that are against the convoy don't

00:14:38.060 think well why is it if there's so many protests all across this country why don't i start to think

00:14:44.560 about what is their grievance yeah maybe i should consider what it is that that many canadians and

00:14:50.340 i mean and we raised 20 million dollars you know we didn't do that amongst the people that arrived it

00:14:56.060 was donations across the country yeah you didn't force them to pay you on like the cbc yeah exactly and

00:15:02.480 you know these were donations these were donations from people that already been taxed on their income

00:15:06.860 yeah right and they were giving at every turn possible to support this convoy so if if millions

00:15:13.020 of canadians were supporting the convoy across this country what is it that they know what is their point

00:15:17.740 of view and i find i i'm frustrated because a lot of canadians that are against the convoy never seem

00:15:22.700 to ask those questions and they're they're really elementary questions but you know it's it's alarming to me

00:15:29.980 to hear some of the narratives that i heard also today from the commissioner but we'll we'll come back to

00:15:35.860 that one in a minute there yeah yeah of course yeah i just want to trickle back yeah because i'm

00:15:42.660 i'm actually william and i were talking yesterday i'm actually old enough to be his grandfather

00:15:47.620 and so i forget things sometimes and i'll have to come back once i remember what it is i won't tell you

00:15:53.060 his real age but i could be his grandfather andrea um i was just going to add to the provocateur thing you

00:16:00.520 know that sitting at home uh crying myself to sleep that i wasn't in ottawa with uh everything

00:16:05.960 that was happening i was just praying that there wouldn't be provocateurs that's what i was so worried

00:16:11.000 about and when i saw that uh you know the swastika go by with uh trudeau's cameraman you know trudeau was

00:16:18.920 missing in action and he loves costumes my thought was you know how do we know what's the height of that

00:16:24.920 person like seriously it ran across my mind but um you know again it's you're right to say william that

00:16:31.560 what's coming out of this is the proof that it was peaceful it was a really great movement that you

00:16:37.480 know really spread across the world another thing that came out uh today is the conversations that uh

00:16:45.160 rcmp commissioner brenda lucky had i found the text interaction that she had with um yes the opp commissioner

00:16:54.920 to be very sneaky it was planting the seed of the emergencies act uh before you know it was even on

00:17:02.440 his radar and also it just kind of she she basically i don't know if we have a shot of it but basically

00:17:09.160 um you know i quoted her she said something along the lines in her tweet that um you know if this

00:17:14.920 doesn't get handled quickly then uh you or i to the the opp commissioner might have to take the lead

00:17:21.880 and you know i don't really want to do that and so when he uh was a cross-examined and asked you know

00:17:27.720 were you reluctant to take on that responsibility if it got there he's like no that's my job here you have

00:17:34.120 the head of the rcmp basically encouraging uh you know not to do your service i'm not saying that they

00:17:41.480 should have done it but i'm just saying there is a point if you're supposed to do what you do

00:17:44.760 it and the head of rcmp is like i don't want to do this between you and i but i don't know i don't

00:17:49.880 trust that that was even the point of the message i think it was to start planting seeds that hay and

00:17:55.480 emergencies act is on the radar yeah and you know dray mentioned the text messages between uh well

00:18:02.200 the text messages involving brenda lucky let's let's throw that clip let's see what was said during the

00:18:07.560 commission she replies thanks tom very helpful between you and i only goc losing slash lost

00:18:16.360 confidence in ops we got to get to safe action slash enforcement because if they go to the emergency

00:18:22.840 measures act you or supposed to be i assume you or i may be brought in to lead not something i want um

00:18:31.960 um is this the first time so first of all goc i assume that's take it that's government of canada

00:18:38.520 that's the way i would have interpreted that yes okay um and so commissioner lucky is relaying to you

00:18:45.640 that the government has lost confidence in ops did you still have confidence in the ops at this time

00:18:52.440 that's a difficult question to uh to answer as to whether i had confidence in the ops at the time

00:19:01.240 i was certainly aware of the challenges that they were experiencing and i did feel with the support

00:19:07.880 that we were providing that there was a an opportunity to develop and execute a plan that

00:19:13.960 would bring upon a resolution to this and ultimately that's what happened and i think it's important not

00:19:19.880 to lose sight of the fact that this whole situation was resolved while preserving life without any

00:19:27.000 serious injury and with preventing any serious damage to critical infrastructure yeah and i think

00:19:34.520 this segues into a great a great another discussion the opp you know that this commissioner didn't want

00:19:42.280 to say that he didn't have confidence in the op but the way he was speaking you could see

00:19:46.840 in which direction he was leaning and i think this goes to show that everything we're saying

00:19:51.800 about the opp where the ops was true it was chaos like they weren't organized they were less organized

00:19:57.640 than you guys during the convoy right well it's funny because uh you know he did give an earlier

00:20:02.760 statement where he said that ottawa has a uh an exceptional reputation across canada amongst other

00:20:09.240 police right that's having so much experience with protests because it happened so much which again

00:20:16.680 you know i come back to the the idea of all the residents of ottawa that hated the convoy it's like

00:20:22.120 this is this is protest central yeah yeah you're living here you should if you don't buy a house

00:20:29.240 besides pearson international airport and then complain about airplane noise this is this happens in

00:20:35.320 this city all the time in the downtown core uh and he was he was trying to say that you know they're

00:20:40.440 extremely um uh have a great reputation for handling protests professionally but wow were they ever

00:20:47.160 completely overwhelmed and and i want to sort of reflect on a different point of view as well

00:20:52.920 it's kind of easy for the opp to step back and say hey we're we're very objective about this because

00:20:59.800 we don't live here we don't physically patrol these streets and live here so they have a different

00:21:04.760 perspective on how they're approaching the policing versus the ottawa police that are in this area

00:21:10.840 streets right embedded in it they're they're embedded here this is their turf uh and in the comments i'm

00:21:16.840 not at all surprised by the commissioner's uh comments about um you know the the confidence he's a

00:21:23.960 police chief he doesn't have a more hierarchy role in ontario above the chief of police

00:21:29.240 for ottawa so he's trying to be as professional horizontally as he can right and so i think he

00:21:37.080 was uncomfortable trying to criticize somebody who's in an equal position that he's in uh that's

00:21:42.360 kind of protecting the the brotherhood amongst the uh the police i think is what he was trying to avoid

00:21:48.200 yeah which i which i mean pretty understandable you know and he was able to keep his professionalism

00:21:52.200 throughout the day which i found pretty impressive and he didn't pander to political points to

00:21:57.560 political talking points like we see elected officials do all the time during those those

00:22:03.640 here though the inquiry we see them do that all the time there's truly a difference between the

00:22:08.520 unelected people that go understand and talk about their experience with the convoy and the elected

00:22:13.960 representative like jim watson like uh this uh individual katherine mckinney yes no gender

00:22:20.280 i got a question for you guys i have a quick question for you guys since you guys have been

00:22:26.280 following it more and i just kind of crashed into it but when i covered the mass casualty commission

00:22:31.720 into our largest mass shooting in nova scotia that happened there was a lot of finger pointing it

00:22:38.520 seemed like everybody that testified was just using it as an opportunity to pass the blame on somebody

00:22:43.160 else is that happening um in this hearing or in these hearings yeah uh it's happening at a uh very

00:22:51.000 grotesque pace and level yes absolutely yeah yeah uh and and you know this is this is an issue that i

00:22:58.520 take exception with brenda lucky i mean i've never met the woman obviously like she's she has served as a

00:23:03.960 as a police officer for her her entire career i don't have an issue i don't you know i i commend her for

00:23:10.120 that but where i really find fault is in her leadership in the fact that you know my my the

00:23:16.600 culture i grew up in with the military was you know seek and accept responsibility and that's that is

00:23:24.040 not just a catchphrase that is not something that you you say oh i i'm responsible i see you know i take

00:23:30.920 responsibility for it but there's no consequence and i'm finding with her that she is just far too involved

00:23:37.880 with too many national issues and she claims to be responsible but she doesn't accept any

00:23:44.840 consequence to that responsibility so for her it's really just become a slogan and of course this is

00:23:50.840 the type of uh systemic leadership we're seeing that all three or throughout every government in

00:23:56.520 in this country uh all three all levels of government they're not actually taking responsibility in a

00:24:03.400 meaningful way they're not stepping down they're not resigning they're not uh i mean they're not even

00:24:08.920 so much as falling on their sword for each other they're just using it as a catchphrase and they're

00:24:13.880 moving on and keeping their jobs and their pay and at the federal level they give themselves a 20

00:24:19.320 raise in april yeah you know dre i think there's one person at least that is extremely obvious that he's

00:24:27.320 only there to make sure his client the the blame doesn't fall on him and that person is the council

00:24:32.600 for chief slowly here's there to make sure that people don't put all the blame on chief slowly but

00:24:38.680 apart from that we can see the lines of questioning adopted by the ottawa police by the government of

00:24:42.680 canada by the city of ottawa and they don't they don't even focus i don't feel they're they're focusing on

00:24:48.280 the reasons behind the invocation of the emergencies act and i don't feel they're focusing on whether or not

00:24:54.120 it was necessary and justified they are focusing on making sure that the their clients look good

00:25:00.680 the city of ottawa is making sure that the city of ottawa looks good same thing for government of

00:25:04.600 canada none of them asked a real question that your your lawyers ask about whether or not the

00:25:09.880 emergencies act was justified and at the end of the day that's the reason why we're having this inquiry

00:25:14.200 but we're actually seeing like i you know i'm not uh sophisticated in terms of how i look at the

00:25:19.960 law or in a in a room like we have a lawyer here's coming up um is better to answer to this but from

00:25:27.480 my perspective somebody that is i went to osmosis university law school through all the lawyers

00:25:35.800 that i'm i'm surrounded by um what's what's interesting is i've noticed in the the lawyers

00:25:42.680 have seen this throughout but i've noticed a big sort of shift in the way the commission lawyers

00:25:48.520 are asking their questions uh it's perceptible to to me now in the audience watching and listening to

00:25:55.400 the questions they're asking uh so i would include those so i would say now there's about five groups

00:26:00.760 of lawyers uh out of the 14 in the room that are all starting to really zero in on on specifically why

00:26:06.920 we're there which is the emergency act and i would say another nine it's all about cya that's really what

00:26:12.760 they're to do for their clients is just to cover up and then of course uh paul champ who is in a

00:26:18.120 different category paul champ is in a category thank you for joining us tom i have a bunch of

00:26:23.800 other questions but we have to get going with our next guest can i can i just make more correction

00:26:28.280 i'm not technically old enough to be his grandfather he's not he's not old enough to be my grandson okay

00:26:35.400 and if you want to know how to remember if you want to know how to remember eva's name not eva

00:26:39.560 eva just think best lawyer ever that's great all right thank you so much for joining us tom

00:26:46.040 that's through to break down on and we're going to have eva

00:26:52.360 we must redouble our effort mayor khan i was hoping that you would answer my question what

00:26:57.400 consequences are there going to be for people that don't abide by the climate green transition

00:27:02.840 it's not an interview where the consequences is going to be mr adler you flew over 5 000 miles

00:27:09.240 to be here to attend a summit that is promoting the elimination of fossil fuels isn't that hypocritical

00:27:17.400 and and the decision i made was that it was better for me to physically be here than to not be here

00:27:24.360 they are doing like in here to to to make a statement that they care about the south governments

00:27:35.320 the south countries of the global south but i don't think that that's not happening

00:27:54.360 freedom in 2022 is not sitting idly by while health diktats with no skin in the game make up all the

00:28:09.480 rules if you're like me and want to play an active role in upholding civil liberties and freedoms for

00:28:16.120 all canadians for our children and eventually our grandchildren then come out to our rebel live event

00:28:23.000 and get to know us in person we'll hearing from some of the most influential leaders in the freedom

00:28:30.200 movement we have events in toronto on november the 19th and in calgary on saturday november 26th

00:28:38.520 tickets are on sale now at rebelnewslive.com come out have lunch get some rebel swag meet the rebels

00:28:46.760 and more you don't want to miss this event check it out rebelnewslive.com

00:29:05.640 welcome back we are here with tamara lisha's lawyer eva eva how are you doing eva very well thank you

00:29:14.280 thank you so are you going to go at the rebel rebel live event toronto you're going to try to get

00:29:18.680 there yeah i i watched the ad and mike was hooked well tamara's going to be there right yeah so yes

00:29:24.920 yes i should be there oh yeah that would be great so um no we got we just got the perspective from

00:29:29.960 one of the freedom convoy organizers who's not a lawyer and he's not an organizer oh that's right

00:29:34.840 he was a volunteer protest protest right well he did go to osmosis law school that's right but now

00:29:42.840 we have an actual lawyer here so eva what were your general thoughts from the proceedings today

00:29:47.240 yeah well today uh one thing i just caught while you guys were um already on air was um the opp's own

00:29:53.960 lawyer started asking some questions and redirect um or his cross-examination i guess it's a bit of a

00:30:00.520 strange process we have here not like you see in court but their lawyer goes last uh before the

00:30:06.200 commissioner lawyer goes again and he actually asked him and confirmed on the record whether he

00:30:11.080 knew anything about the emergencies act before it was invoked and this is the opp superintendent

00:30:18.120 so the top basically police officer in all of ontario and he confirmed that he found out that

00:30:25.000 the emergencies act was invoked publicly so he found out when you found out when i found out

00:30:31.320 and this is the enforcement agency um so that was very interesting to hear you would think that

00:30:38.920 if there's a national security threat which is the reason that you need the emergencies act that

00:30:44.520 the police officers that are going to be enforcing the law would know about what was going on and

00:30:50.680 then the follow-up question to that was would it would it have been helpful for you to know that

00:30:57.000 the emergencies act was going to be invoked um and of course he said yes that would have been good

00:31:02.360 information to have so very interesting information came out right at the end as well that we were

00:31:07.960 alluded to that but then it was very very firmly confirmed at the end yeah well i think that

00:31:13.080 brendan miller touched a little bit on the terrorism side of things uh with thomas carrie because

00:31:18.280 we know that he has a background i believe in counter-terrorism i know if you can tell us a

00:31:21.720 little bit more about thomas background from the opp um morris's background no thomas carrie oh today

00:31:29.480 oh so i think it was public order administration or something like that so how to deal with large

00:31:34.840 crowds and what i really enjoyed about brendan miller's cross-examination today and i encourage

00:31:39.480 everyone to uh review it is he kind of went a little bit of a um protest law 101 so he started with what is

00:31:48.120 yeah really good what is a lawful protest and we talked about that then he asked what's an

00:31:53.640 unlawful assembly and then the third one was a riot so what was very interesting in his um cross

00:32:01.480 examination is he clarified all of it basically set the stage for it and um then talked about what

00:32:09.960 actually happened in ottawa number one is that the truckers came in at the direction of police

00:32:15.640 police officers into ottawa and then they were assembled there at the direction of ottawa police

00:32:23.960 and opp and then that the barricades were put in by the police and he couldn't confirm that at the

00:32:31.320 time he said maybe it'll be it was um the truckers themselves and blocking but we'll get that evidence

00:32:37.240 out next week when the protesters have an opportunity to finally give evidence and the last thing he had

00:32:43.160 confirmed on the record was that not one individual in ottawa was charged with unlawful assembly that's

00:32:50.680 right so very very interesting yeah so here we are talking about this large protest in and we're hearing

00:32:59.320 illegal occupation over and over and if that really was the case wouldn't at least i don't know one

00:33:05.880 10 10 100 people be charged with the the crime of unlawful assembly and today we found out nobody

00:33:13.080 was well while we're here let's take a look at some of brendan's uh cross-examination with the thomas

00:33:21.480 right well he testified that essentially in summary that there was no uh intelligence of a credible threat

00:33:27.800 under section two of the cesus act would you agree with that there was no intelligence there was no

00:33:33.240 credible there was no credible intelligence of a threat yes um that i would agree with that right

00:33:42.440 and so it's fair to say that based on all opp intelligence and the intelligence provided by

00:33:47.800 the rcmp and federal intelligence agencies to the opp to your knowledge there was no credible threat to

00:33:54.440 the security of canada as defined in section two of the cesus act that would be my understanding yes

00:34:00.840 as determined by superintendent pat morris in consultation with cesus and the rcmp thank you

00:34:10.280 so there we have it i mean every day is just more damning for the federal government i feel

00:34:14.600 yeah well if you could see the federal government lawyers after that cross or during that cross

00:34:19.560 examination they looked very uncomfortable i could tell you that oh yeah oh yeah well you were in the

00:34:25.160 room andrea what did you make of the clear that we just saw yeah it's so nice to have eva like really

00:34:30.600 point out the stuff that um you know really drives it all home but miller time was great today and i

00:34:36.600 think you hit it all on the nail the the other thing that he said there when he brought up the barriers

00:34:41.480 which like you said we'll know more about soon next week um he said you know if the police in fact

00:34:47.080 brought the barriers and that's part of the reason they were stuck there or or other vehicles is it

00:34:52.360 really even their fault at all that they can't move at that point is that an unlawful assembly or is that

00:34:57.960 just being stuck right yeah so um yeah there was a lot of nuggets in miller time i'll jump a little

00:35:05.000 bit into the evidence next week because you got like you know when you i kept hearing them saying

00:35:09.640 well it was truckers that were blocking other truckers and like to think about that just for a moment

00:35:14.840 is these are truckers that came from across the country uh in an effort to protest lawfully and some

00:35:21.720 of them went back to work or had to go back and there was coordination among them from what i saw

00:35:27.720 helping each other out there was absolutely no reason for any one trucker to be blocking another

00:35:33.160 trucker it just doesn't even make logical sense so again that's going to come out next week a bit more

00:35:37.720 but i thought i'd just throw that out there yeah yeah next week uh today was the first day that we saw

00:35:44.520 chris barber in the building is there a reason why chris barber is coming chris who chris barber i'm just

00:35:50.120 kidding yes yeah chris barber came because yeah he's going to be giving evidence next week

00:35:55.640 uh so he came out already uh get acclimatized check out the room and here he is um

00:36:01.400 again well yeah had an opportunity to observe the proceedings today so so who's going to be

00:36:06.040 well we see it right here you guys when you were entering you had tamara chris and

00:36:10.040 both counsel on each side make sure that you hear that correctly kmg both counsel all the lawyers were there

00:36:17.000 so you know next week we have i believe tom testifying keith is going to be testifying

00:36:21.400 tamara is going to be testifying chris dania as well well what do you expect to see come come out of

00:36:26.760 all that the truth uh we have absolutely nothing to hide our clients were coordinating and communicating

00:36:34.840 with the police ad nauseum we all took calls from the police at all hours of the day um and that was one

00:36:42.840 another thing that i'll just refer to yesterday is there was a question that was posed to the ops

00:36:48.040 officers so the ottawa police services do you do you know who tamara leach chris barber tom marazo and

00:36:55.000 nanny bulford are uh and he said yes he said do you have you do you know whether or not they were

00:37:02.280 uncooperative with the ottawa police services at any time and the response was not that i'm aware of

00:37:09.160 so all of these you know uh suggestions and media reports about you know i can't even name all of

00:37:17.720 the terrible things that have been said and here we have uh clients that we came to ottawa to represent

00:37:26.120 in order to peacefully protest uh we didn't even have any concerns about what activities they were doing

00:37:32.520 because we were just managing and mitigating but not uh concerned about whether it was lawful or

00:37:39.960 unlawful their activities yeah it's almost as if there's two oh go ahead go ahead adria i was just

00:37:48.280 i was just saying it's almost as if there's two parallel parallel universes with this i mean you have

00:37:54.520 the legacy media throwing out reports there that cast doubt on whether or not truckers actually came to

00:38:00.920 the convoy oh couldn't have been truckers because they would have all been working um i'm sorry some

00:38:06.600 of them are not able to work that's why they're there but i mean i'm interested evan your your opinion

00:38:13.640 on how it's possible for so two very different narratives to come out of the same event well it's

00:38:23.480 really concerning uh that's one thing i want to put out there and you said two different universes or

00:38:28.520 realities um and it's like two different movies completely is how i've put it before and uh going

00:38:34.360 back to what opp intelligence officer morris spoke about is he said the disinformation that the media

00:38:42.600 was putting out really affected their ability to conduct their policing activities and cost a lot of

00:38:48.920 problems for them internally sifting through what was real and not real um and that is something that

00:38:57.400 this commission is interested in uh learning more about and is one of the mandates so i look forward

00:39:04.440 to what the commission will find there and maybe what policy recommendations and maybe we'll even the

00:39:12.040 commission will talk about journalistic standards because it is really something that we need to be

00:39:16.840 talking about i think that's one of the reasons why people are pushing now for for cbc to come testify

00:39:21.960 in front of the committee as well yeah i 100 support that i think it's important

00:39:27.560 on the page of the commission if you guys agree there is a little invitation for you to add any

00:39:33.560 comment or suggestions you can go right on the page and scroll down and do that i think that's a great

00:39:38.360 idea let's get some uh rebel reporters up there and some cbc reporters up there on the stand that

00:39:44.040 would be awesome yeah we'll see the difference between the journalistic standards all right i have

00:39:48.600 i have another question actually just ending on that topic maybe is i wonder how many of those um

00:39:55.240 legacy media journalists journalists were actually on the ground versus some of the alternative media

00:40:00.600 because then what is it you're reporting somebody said something said something or the actual fact

00:40:05.640 again reality versus fiction no you're absolutely right on that point 100 um another question that i have for you

00:40:12.760 i saw yesterday uh the the judge while the commissioner issued a ruling and a request for

00:40:19.560 an in-camera ex-party happening for the hearing can you tell us more about that yeah so i've only

00:40:25.080 learned about that on twitter myself and i read the decision very quickly um what it is is that the

00:40:30.760 government of canada has said that there's some very sensitive information that it needs to have in

00:40:35.560 camera so in camera means although it is a bit of a funny name because there are no cameras that's

00:40:41.080 right you only have the commission cameras there so um it's going to be outside of the public purview

00:40:46.920 and only certain representatives with um security thresholds can uh attend so some of the council only

00:40:54.520 and from my reading of it it's actually only going to be commissioned council and government of

00:41:00.040 canada council but they've really limited it so what they said and if you scroll to the end of it

00:41:05.880 is where you really get the the just of the decision is that they're making a preliminary assessment uh

00:41:12.760 so i think it's just uh above this input from the parties if you go up a little bit so the second

00:41:18.600 third last paragraph maybe and it says that uh we're going to review the information that comes forward

00:41:26.120 and then we're going to make a determination about whether or not this has to remain confidential or

00:41:31.560 whether we're going to summarize this information or whether we're going to make it public so uh

00:41:36.840 it's a very preliminary decision that the commission has made i don't think we need to hold our breath

00:41:42.520 on it or or worry about it too much at least not my my take on it at this time so if i just read from

00:41:48.120 the the decision of judge judge rulo when i have heard the evidence i will decide whether the evidence

00:41:53.320 must remain confidential i may decide that some or all of the evidence can be made public for

00:41:58.360 example in a summary that describes the evidence without disclosing information that must remain

00:42:03.080 confidential confidential is there any resemblance between this and a publication ban during a

00:42:08.520 actual court proceeding uh so yeah i i don't know if i totally understood your question but definitely

00:42:17.640 this one could we say that it is a publication ban or are there any differences between this and a

00:42:23.800 publication ban probably yes um i think you could get publication bans for certain uh specified reasons

00:42:29.800 but this one is 100 simply because of national security threat that's the claim that the government

00:42:36.040 of canada is making i suspect in a court case you could ask for a publication ban on national security

00:42:43.400 d things but i'm not certain it's usually because of a safe this a safety issue for a person something

00:42:49.800 like that and how much do you think is going to impact the hearing do you think it won't impact

00:42:54.440 it at all or do you think it's going to impact it enormously i definitely think it's too early to

00:43:00.600 make that assessment i think let's see what happens at parties are have an opportunity to give input but

00:43:07.560 again like i said this is a preliminary uh beating and i think right now the commission

00:43:13.240 wants to itself assess what uh this information is and so far what i've seen commissioner rouleau do

00:43:20.040 with procedural things i find very fair and not biased at all so there was one time the ops office

00:43:26.440 um ops lawyer got a bit uh excited when uh document or no it was the recording between diane deans and

00:43:35.240 watson so that came up so this is a very similar way of handling a procedural issue so i really enjoyed

00:43:42.440 how commissioner rouleau handled that matter he said let's first get on the record the reason why

00:43:47.720 this recording wasn't disclosed earlier to the parties because that was the claim the ottawa police

00:43:53.640 services lawyer was saying he said we didn't get this early enough why wasn't this closed earlier and

00:43:58.760 commissioner rouleau didn't jump to conclusions he said why don't we hear the reason that this wasn't

00:44:04.520 provided earlier we heard the reasons and it was simply a technology issue um diane deans thought she

00:44:13.320 had she actually handed over her phone to her assistant and said take everything off of it and

00:44:19.400 that just didn't happen so on that evidence it's very hard to say okay she purposely didn't give the

00:44:27.720 commission the recording and the commissioner said based on that evidence i think it's fair and there's

00:44:34.120 nothing that controversial in it anyway and allowed it in i anticipate we're going to see something

00:44:39.800 similar with this he's going to review it he'll come back to the parties and then we can have another

00:44:44.440 discussion as well you know i agree that so far commissioner rouleau has been fair in his proceeding

00:44:50.520 and i think that's the reason why canines have hope in this inquiry because we see him and even though

00:44:56.040 a lot of people are saying that he's a true to appointed judge we see him being impartial we see him

00:45:00.680 letting both sides of the aisle speak we see the proceedings being cordial as well and i have to

00:45:06.200 correct you he's not a true to appointed judge okay he was appointed well before trudeau because

00:45:11.000 he's been in court for quite a while uh trudeau's been around for five years i think so it was before

00:45:16.360 there are um he has donated to the liberal party in the past and i've talked about that on my tick tock

00:45:22.440 you could look at it there but um lawyers do that all the time and he did that well before he was a

00:45:29.640 judge you know and that that is part of being able what we're looking for what protesters were fighting

00:45:38.120 for the right to um free speech and donate to where you want so we can't you know critique that too too

00:45:46.280 much you have to give 100 so just a little correction there not a trudeau i hadn't read a report saying

00:45:54.040 that it was a trudeau trudeau appointee but i never read it full on it could be that um trudeau appointed

00:45:59.960 him for this commission interesting okay you know it was uh an executive decision so that could be maybe

00:46:05.800 where the um miscommunication is very possible yeah andrea oh i was just saying um you know what you

00:46:14.760 said about that's what we were fighting for the right to choose the right to donate it's so true

00:46:20.520 it's also what the sort of pro-freedom fight gets in so much trouble with because we want to be fair

00:46:27.240 that's the whole point but the left um i don't know if you can call it the left but whatever they're the

00:46:32.440 opposite you know it's my body my choice until it has something to do with big pharma you know they

00:46:38.520 switch the narratives up as they please yeah no 100 all right let's go to a quick ad when we come back

00:46:45.560 we'll continue discussing the commission and we'll read some of your chats as well

00:46:51.400 hey folks from october 13th to november 25th we are here in ottawa for the emergencies act inquiry

00:47:13.400 organized by the public order emergency commission but why why the emergencies act inquiry wall because

00:47:18.920 during the freedom convoy back in february justin trudeau used a never invoked before emergencies

00:47:24.520 act to basically seize protesters bank accounts seize protesters money seize their assets trampled or

00:47:30.280 civil liberties so we're here this month for next month and a half to figure out if the way the

00:47:34.680 government acted was lawful and was appropriate so we are here to hold the government accountable but

00:47:39.400 we need your help we are here to cover it for you because everyone else here is mainstream media

00:47:43.320 so if you want to help us cover it if you want to help us bring you the other side of the story

00:47:47.480 factual actual news go to trucker commission dot com and consider making a donation

00:47:54.760 all right we're back here yeah so i saw bits of the clip that i wanted us to analyze afterwards so

00:48:00.040 let's let's throw this clip where um the commissioner discussed the word occupation when it comes to

00:48:07.160 describing the convoy

00:48:08.360 uh safely remove them unless we have hundreds of officers to maintain uh i think that says risks and

00:48:19.480 it's not clear um the bottom there now transitioned into an occupation so first of all did you agree with

00:48:28.360 chief slowly's assessment that it was an occupation at that point i had no reason not to agree with chief

00:48:34.920 slowly uh it certainly uh had turned into a situation that i felt ottawa police had not anticipated

00:48:42.600 and i do not think describing it as an occupation would be inaccurate at all

00:48:47.480 can't safely remove them unless we have hundreds

00:48:51.160 andrea i saw i saw you making some facial expressions but you have sister

00:48:59.160 oh man i was actually yawning because i've been live tweeting since six in the morning or whatever

00:49:05.400 no um yeah you busted me yawning that's embarrassing

00:49:10.760 we have a lawyer here so ever occupation yeah well i've had a hard time with that word and that's why i

00:49:17.800 really enjoyed brendan miller's cross-examination today and those were slowly his words so i think

00:49:24.360 we're going to hear more about that tomorrow it's definitely a word that's been thrown around a lot and

00:49:30.440 i don't know what the legal definition is uh that they're relying on here and like we talked about

00:49:37.800 earlier if it was an unlawful assembly then why weren't people charged with that right

00:49:43.320 mm-hmm yeah it's that simple yeah and before he was asked about that he himself was referring

00:49:49.480 it to it as the freedom convoy he wasn't saying the occupation the occupation so

00:49:55.240 that's true yeah before that question here well i think somebody should review the transcript to see

00:49:59.880 how many different words have been used to describe it today it was the event uh it's the protest

00:50:05.880 it's there's so so many different words so you know that's very interesting i'll take a look at

00:50:11.080 that afterwards because i'm actually curious yeah might have an article coming coming soon

00:50:16.120 the different the different terms that were used to describe the freedom convoy

00:50:19.560 yeah by uh people that testified today all right do we have any chats from our viewers

00:50:28.840 you can read it uh if you wish you know what my screen i don't i don't know how to make it go

00:50:35.560 wide sorry all right look i'm just i'm just dropping the ball towards the end here

00:50:42.040 i can't read it yes i guess that's adam ottawa but i'm not entirely sure paul champ sure look like a

00:50:48.280 chump today i think he's in over his head i'll refrain myself from from commenting i won't comment

00:50:56.360 paul champ yeah sorry no worries all right is that the only chat that we have for for tonight

00:51:08.120 thanks adam ottawa he's a regular regular supporter in live chats yeah thank you all if you want to see

00:51:14.280 one of the interactions that i had with paul champ you can always look at one of my first um scrum that

00:51:18.600 i did here with uh exec z lee and i believe the second the first day i were here in ottawa yeah paul champ

00:51:24.120 and i interacted for a brief moment so i'll i'll let you take a look at that if you want to know

00:51:29.640 more about my thoughts on paul champ yeah all right well thank you so much for joining us here eva today

00:51:35.400 i know it was a little bit later than expected but we had some technical issues from the beginning

00:51:39.480 thank you for your work at the commission thank you for joining us as well joey and thank you for

00:51:44.120 life treating today thanks for having me see you next time yeah have a great evening everyone

00:51:48.840 bye and sorry even prior to the invocation of the emergencies act there were

00:51:57.160 tow trucks and towing companies looking to be compelled not looking to well i shouldn't say not

00:52:03.960 looking to be compelled um my understanding was that there were some of them that were reluctant there

00:52:09.960 may have been some that were were refusing to assist but there had been some identified that were willing to

00:52:17.240 assist there were concerns that they may back out at the last minute which could present to prevent

00:52:24.120 or presented a risk to moving forward with the plan the biggest concern was around indemnification

00:52:30.920 so uh tow comp one tow company in particular was seeking indemnification which is not something that

00:52:38.040 we would normally provide and we were trying to to determine the best way forward through the province

00:52:44.760 and how if and if so how we could provide some indemnification

BREAKDOWN： Trucker Commission Day 11 ｜ Ft. Eva Chipiuk & Tom Marazzo

Summary

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