Rebel News Podcast - Catching up with Tamara Ugolini

00:00:00.000 Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show,

00:00:04.900 The Gun Show. However, this is the internet, so you know what? Feel free to listen or watch

00:00:09.200 whenever you want. My guest tonight is my Rebel colleague, Tamara Ugolini, and we're talking

00:00:16.160 about her work on trying to find out what exactly the COVID restrictions are and who enforces them

00:00:25.640 and what becomes of your human rights in the midst of all that confusion. Now, if you like listening

00:00:31.040 to the show, then I promise you're going to love watching it, but in order to watch, you need to

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00:01:01.940 member. And now, please enjoy this free audio-only version of my show.

00:01:19.740 How are normal people supposed to know what the coronavirus restrictions are

00:01:24.800 if the police don't really know on any given day? I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:01:48.800 I'm getting a lot of mixed information from the public health unit,

00:01:51.920 and simultaneously a security guard, and now the police. Can you help me, you know, clarify what's

00:01:58.600 going on?

00:02:07.080 Nothing.

00:02:08.720 That is my Rebel colleague Tamara Ugolini being threatened with a trespass violation for just

00:02:16.080 trying to do her job and report on some of the more ridiculous coronavirus restrictions.

00:02:22.520 And you can see from her interaction that not only do the police not know quite what's going on,

00:02:29.620 because Tamara had not been asked to leave, and so she was not trespassing, but the police really

00:02:36.100 didn't know what the law was, what they needed to be enforcing, and what Tamara's human rights were, 1.00

00:02:44.060 because it's a violation of Tamara's human rights to ask her why she is mask-exempt, and I will note

00:02:52.720 in that video, Tamara is heavily pregnant, not a good look on the police. Anyway, Tamara's reporting as of 0.99

00:03:01.320 late has really been on that theme. What are the restrictions, because they're changing so fast,

00:03:07.320 they change by the day, depending on where you live, and the whim of the politician in charge that

00:03:13.360 day. And what are peace officers, bylaw officers, and the police supposed to do when they don't know

00:03:24.180 the laws, and how are the police supposed to balance the human rights of Canadians in the mix?

00:03:32.040 And so joining me now in an interview we recorded earlier is one of our newest, but I think quickly

00:03:38.120 becoming a fan favorite, Rebels to Mary Ugolini to discuss her reporting on the pandemic and her job of

00:03:46.880 trying to alleviate some of the confusion around the rules we're all expected to follow,

00:03:52.860 and what she thinks 2021 will bring.

00:04:10.920 Joining me now from her home in Coburg is one of our newest Rebels, Tamara Ugolini. Tamara,

00:04:16.000 you have been on the show before, and that was a lot of fun. It was a couple months ago,

00:04:20.960 and I thought as, you know, an end of the year kind of thing, we'd check back in with you.

00:04:26.560 First of all, how are you liking the new job?

00:04:30.440 It's been great. Yeah, I'm really finding a groove finally. It was, I think I mentioned this back the

00:04:37.120 initial time I was on the show, it's been a big learning curve. So lots to learn. I've had a lot

00:04:43.540 of really great experiences, met a lot of really great people, gained a lot of insight. So all in all,

00:04:49.580 it's been a really, really awesome learning opportunity. And, and yeah, I finally feel like

00:04:55.060 I'm, I'm adjusting and getting more comfortable with everything in front of the camera.

00:05:00.820 It's hard when you're not, you know, like, as David Menzies says, a trained broadcast professional,

00:05:07.440 however, he's actually trained broadcast professional. And I don't know, I don't know what's

00:05:11.880 going on there. But it is hard when you're like a regular person. And then all of a sudden,

00:05:15.760 you're talking to a camera, and through that camera or cell phone, you're talking to the rest

00:05:20.440 of the world. And it's a little bit challenging to find your footing to realize like, you talk a

00:05:27.320 little bit differently when you're talking to a camera, as opposed to, you know, like you're talking

00:05:30.680 to your friends, and you have to find a way to communicate a little differently. And you're trying

00:05:35.180 to shoehorn so much information into a video in the least amount of time, because you want people

00:05:42.480 to be able to watch it. And that's difficult to learn. But I don't think that I don't think it

00:05:50.640 matters whether or not you're a regular person, or a trained broadcast professional, because, well,

00:05:57.860 CBC employs trained broadcast professionals, and like, nobody's watching their stuff, right?

00:06:03.160 What a failure that's become.

00:06:06.520 Now, I wanted to talk to you about some of the things that are on your beat, because your beat has

00:06:11.720 really been, like, people who wear, don't want to wear masks, or who are exempt from wearing masks,

00:06:21.140 or who want to be just left alone, generally in the world, and who are being harassed for not wearing

00:06:27.480 masks. For example, the young man who was, I guess, basically booted out of Costco for not wearing a mask

00:06:38.580 mask to go buy medication for the illness that makes him mask exempt.

00:06:44.740 Right. I mean, they're just, it just seems to be enforced so heavily that there's no longer any room

00:06:51.780 for logic, reasoning, rationale. I mean, there was that woman, I think it was in BC, the Paralympic

00:06:59.540 swimmer, who has no hands, and they denied her entry to the Indigo chapters there. She physically

00:07:07.040 is unable to put on a mask. I mean, this is the extreme that it's going, where there's no room for

00:07:13.940 any, anything else, other than wear the mask, or what, you can't be in society anymore. I mean,

00:07:22.500 is this, is this a stepping stone? A lot of people are speculating. Well, and I think that's one of

00:07:29.220 the things that I really admire about your reporting, especially lately, is nobody knows

00:07:35.800 what the heck the rules are. The rules are also changing so fast that you can't expect normal

00:07:41.640 people to keep up with them. But you can't even expect the cops to keep up with, you know, how fast

00:07:47.320 the rules are changing and what the rules are today versus what the rules were yesterday and what zone

00:07:51.220 color-coded zone means what. Just today, I went into Tim Hortons to grab a coffee, and the sign on

00:08:00.560 the door said something about the mask and the Emergency Measures and Civil Protections Act, and I

00:08:05.640 thought to myself, that hasn't been in effect since, I don't know the exact date, but the end of the

00:08:11.960 summer, at least, now it's all, in Ontario anyway, it's all under the Ontario Reopening Act, and there's

00:08:19.360 still signs up on legislation that was ended months ago. And you've been trying to get answers, and

00:08:28.780 you've been trying to get answers from cops when they are thinking about ticketing you for trespass.

00:08:37.340 Face-to-face, yeah. Face-to-face, you've been trying to get answers from health officials

00:08:41.780 who then say, oh, send you everything in an email, and then they don't give you the information.

00:08:48.960 You've been trying to get answers from the ministry. If you can't get the answers, and you're a journalist

00:08:57.120 who, I mean, you live in this world all the time. This is our job to ask questions and get answers.

00:09:03.380 How on earth does the Ontario government expect normal people to get the answers that they need

00:09:10.860 to make sure that they are in compliance with the law?

00:09:13.980 That's a, yeah, and that's a great point and a great question. And something that,

00:09:17.580 where I, again, I feel I've found my groove here is that I've really liked being able to,

00:09:23.680 for lack of a better word, name drop myself to these officials and say, I'm Tamara Ugolini,

00:09:28.940 I'm a reporter with Rebel News. To clarify on a story I'm covering, I'd like to ask you a few

00:09:34.840 questions, and I will feature your response. And in honouring the other side of the story,

00:09:40.020 I will share that with my report. And so I feel like it's given me a bit more of a leg to stand

00:09:47.760 on with some of these officials. But as I'm finding, it's still not enough. And there's no real answers,

00:09:54.000 or it's very word salad, political speak. I have a response, a few other responses that I haven't

00:10:02.760 quite bundled up into a video yet. So that should be coming out in the new year, in terms of the

00:10:10.660 police and what's what's being enforced and how heavily. So, you know, just going back to when I

00:10:17.180 was just a normal person, I was doing these things on my own, not specifically pandemic stuff,

00:10:22.620 but for the last few years, various issues, and I wasn't getting anywhere. So that's not new

00:10:29.140 territory to me. But having a little bit more of a leg to stand on to try to get some accountability

00:10:34.780 has been a really fun and challenging thing, especially to try to remain unbiased in how I

00:10:42.220 point the questions. Yeah. And that's, I think, something that maybe people aren't aware that we do,

00:10:50.760 but we do our very best to reach out to the other side of the story. We're definitely advocates for

00:10:57.140 the little guy, the normal person, the businesses that want to open through IWillOpen.com, the people

00:11:02.240 who have been fined at FightTheFines.com. We are their advocates and their champions, because we

00:11:08.280 believe in the rights of small business owners to operate. And we believe in the rights of normal

00:11:13.260 people to just go about their business and do normal things that were completely normal and not

00:11:18.380 illegal 10 months ago that are suddenly illegal now. We're advocates for those people. But we do

00:11:23.540 want to make sure that we reach out to the other side, the health officials who are making these rules,

00:11:29.960 because not only do we want to get their side of the story on the record, but sometimes just asking

00:11:35.100 the question exposes them for how little they know. And that that's been evident in so many of your

00:11:44.800 stories. I mean, when you're asking the cops when they're trying to ticket you for trespass,

00:11:49.960 when you were not asked to leave, and you're you're asking them like, well, what about the other

00:11:55.860 side of this? Like, what about who's who's worrying about the human rights issues here? They had no idea

00:12:02.300 when you followed up with the help. Well, and they didn't even care. They didn't care. He said that he

00:12:07.780 said, you can file a human rights complaint. I don't care. I mean, and that's our that's our

00:12:13.400 enforcement. That's our police. And they do take an oath to uphold the Charter of Human Rights and the

00:12:21.340 Human Rights Code. So where do these pieces again, I'm still left, what, six weeks later questioning,

00:12:28.080 where's the where does this become a cohesive front here on what's being enforced?

00:12:34.540 Well, I think that's why it's so important, the work of like the Justice Center for Constitutional

00:12:38.860 Freedoms and what we're doing at I will open and fight the fines.com is because we're trying to

00:12:43.340 balance the human rights side. And I do get why cops would say like, look, file a human rights complaint.

00:12:50.060 I deal with the criminal side. Fine. I you know what, on some level, I don't want the cops worrying about,

00:12:56.060 you know, human rights commission area stuff, because I really don't want the cops to come

00:13:01.420 and arrest me because I said something that hurt somebody's feelings. And that's sort of what human

00:13:06.380 rights are turning into these days. So I don't want that. But at the same time, the people who are

00:13:11.920 drafting the legislation, it's their job to balance pandemic legislation with human rights. And they're

00:13:19.620 not, they're just throwing the human rights side completely in the garbage. And, and only worrying

00:13:25.780 about, you know, what they think will stop the pandemic. And that's actually that's something

00:13:31.760 that's that I found interesting in researching the Ontario Reopening Act. And again, I keep going

00:13:37.840 back to specifically regulation 364 dash 20, is that it is in the law. And they did make stipulations in

00:13:45.320 there, specifically for the mask exempt, or exceptions. It's spelled out very clearly. And

00:13:51.960 so I don't know where there's that segregation that's happening that why one part of that law

00:13:57.060 is being enforced so heavily, and the other parts are being disregarded. And the same thing I'm finding

00:14:02.440 with the Trespass to Property Act, there are certain parts in that act that are being completely

00:14:06.660 disregarded, and police go right to the enforcement arrest part of the law. So it's like the cherry

00:14:13.680 picking that's happening in all aspects of the pandemic. It's, it's mind blowing that the people

00:14:20.820 are getting away with it. And it's gone thus far. Now, that, I mean, I suppose we could talk about

00:14:27.940 the pandemic forever. But there's, you've, you're also part of the work that you do. And I think it's

00:14:34.980 because you're a mom, and I appreciate it, because I'm a mom. But you also are finding and giving a space

00:14:43.120 to teachers to come out and talk about politics in the classroom. And, and not just teachers, but also

00:14:52.080 kids too. And I think that's because you approach these issues in such a gentle sort of nonpartisan

00:14:59.440 way, that you have teachers coming out coming forward to you talking about the sort of the

00:15:05.120 politics around indoctrination and the politics around masks in the classroom. And that's very

00:15:11.100 unusual, we very rarely have teachers, that we can sort of coax out of the shadows. And, you know,

00:15:18.920 advocate for other teachers standing behind them, who are not willing to come out of the shadows.

00:15:23.800 You've been doing that. And I think that's really great.

00:15:26.180 Well, and it's been tough, to be honest, trying to find people who are willing to, to have an opinion,

00:15:33.500 first and foremost, and then voice it on a platform. There doesn't seem to be many of those

00:15:40.180 left or, or around these days, everyone's very scared. And especially the teacher that I have

00:15:46.200 featured, you know, there, there, there can be repercussions for coming forward. And I mean,

00:15:51.980 in a free and democratic society, that is very concerning to me, that anyone that has a dissenting voice

00:15:58.320 that goes against this sort of general accepted narrative is vilified and criminalized. I mean,

00:16:07.000 what kind of country are we living in?

00:16:11.480 Well, and it's not even like people who are coming out with an opinion, a teacher who's saying, well,

00:16:17.380 yeah, I'm kind of a conservative in the classroom. And these are teachers who are saying, you know what

00:16:22.660 my opinion is, that you don't need my opinion in the classroom. And somehow that is controversial in

00:16:27.680 this day and age. And, you know, that their unions who normally will stand up and help bad teachers,

00:16:34.700 they are sort of the first ones who crack down on them and, and refuse to stand up for their free

00:16:42.480 speech. And that's an interesting point that you make on the unions, because I have another story

00:16:47.120 that I'm working on, again, with some individuals who are fearful to come on camera with me, but where

00:16:53.220 the union is failing these workers and not advocating for what they truly want and using, I mean, all

00:17:00.900 across the board, we've seen these bullying and coercion tactics being used on people to gain their

00:17:05.700 compliance. And typically, or traditionally, the unions were where people could go for a voice or an

00:17:13.360 advocate. And unfortunately, we're not seeing that here on on one side of the spectrum.

00:17:19.320 Now, another story that I think you've sort of been one of the

00:17:26.040 or three journalists to cover in the entire country is the use of fetal cells in the COVID vaccines. And

00:17:39.040 it's not all the vaccines, but it is some of the vaccines. And nobody's really talking about

00:17:43.380 the ethical and moral and religious freedom implications surrounding the vaccines. Now,

00:17:51.540 Doug Ford has come out and said that vaccines aren't going to be mandatory. However, health

00:17:57.460 officials have said, well, they're not going to be mandatory. But there's this big long list of

00:18:01.580 things that you can't do in a free society. Now, if you don't take the vaccine, so it's that coercion

00:18:07.420 you're talking about. And it's completely, again, throwing out the whole human rights side of the

00:18:12.220 debate. For me, as a Catholic, I'm not taking a vaccine with fetal stem cells. I'm just not. But

00:18:20.760 if I lived in Ontario, well, that might mean that I can't get my driver's license renewed, or maybe I

00:18:26.800 can't go to the emergency room. So it's, you know, state force. And for a lot of people, their choices

00:18:33.880 may be, do I violate my religious freedom and thus compromise my soul, which is, you know, it doesn't

00:18:42.120 matter. If it doesn't matter what I think, or you think it matters what the religious person thinks. So

00:18:47.260 do I compromise my soul? Or do I go to the emergency room and deal with this life threatening injury? That's,

00:18:53.640 that could be the position that a lot of people are put in. And you're really the only one talking about

00:18:58.220 that. Yeah. And, you know, school sending your being able to send your children to school, that

00:19:04.360 will be a big thing to address, if and when the COVID vaccine becomes mandated. Again, the mandate,

00:19:13.580 you know, oh, it won't be mandatory, yet will kind of force your hand. Because if you want your kids to

00:19:19.140 go to school, or you want to go on a trip one day, well, then here's your COVID pass. That's I think

00:19:25.820 that's Bill Gates technology to show that your proof of vaccination. I mean, the technology is all

00:19:31.240 there. So if 2020 and 2021 continues to go in the way that all these conspiracy theorists, as we like

00:19:38.900 to, they like to refer to them as, as they were speculating the beginning, the beginning of the

00:19:44.160 pandemic, if it continues on this path, I mean, this is shaping up to be conspiracy facts, not conspiracy

00:19:50.700 theory. So yeah, the vaccine thing. Again, I think, personally, I think that some of these tactics

00:19:58.480 are just that, that stepping stone. Right now, you have people in the workforce being force tested

00:20:04.980 for COVID-19. And there's a lot of speculation and questions around how reliable and accurate that test

00:20:12.040 even is. It's very invasive. And, and men, healthy working men who are not symptomatic for any illness

00:20:20.300 are being forced to take this test, or threatened with job loss, right before Christmas. So what are

00:20:29.260 you going to choose? And so where do we draw that line? Do we stop at the vaccine? Does it end there?

00:20:34.740 It didn't stop at the masks? It's not stopping at the testing. So why won't we just keep going?

00:20:42.680 You know, that's a great point. I, for me, the longer this goes on, the further we are from the baseline

00:20:48.880 of what actual normal is. People are always talking about new normal. And I hope that in 2021, we never

00:20:55.080 hear that word again, but I think it is with us forever. But people are forgetting, we didn't used to have

00:21:02.900 to stand six feet apart and stand on these stupid arrows on the floor. And we weren't like, looking 0.99

00:21:10.980 to see if someone's judging us if we're not wearing a mask in the grocery store, or if we're going the

00:21:16.360 wrong way down the coffee aisle. Or, you know, if you took off your mask by touching the elastics and not

00:21:24.800 pulling it off your face, because people are going to judge you. And little kids who are wearing masks

00:21:30.900 for their first day of kindergarten, this is all they know about school. I'm concerned about how

00:21:37.560 much further we get away from what normal used to be. I'm worried people are going to forget.

00:21:43.100 And there's a whole bunch of people, little people who don't even know.

00:21:46.860 They already forget. It's been long enough that if you're young enough, as a child, you forget.

00:21:52.940 My almost three-year-old, I mean, we went to a play place last week, and it was as though it was his

00:22:00.820 first time ever being at a play place, because it's been eight, nine months since he was last at an

00:22:07.560 indoor play place. And it was joyous, don't get me wrong, I loved the whole experience. But seeing how

00:22:15.240 excited he was, and knowing that he's been to these places before, it definitely struck a chord.

00:22:22.940 I was talking about this earlier today with one of our I Will Open cases. You know, little kids who

00:22:30.460 are, you know, four years old, they've spent a full one quarter of their life. You know, when you

00:22:37.140 think about how we're approaching a year of this right away, they've spent a full one quarter of

00:22:43.080 their life living this bizarre misery that we're all living. And when you think about your earliest

00:22:50.660 memory, it's probably three years old, three, two, three ish. This is literally their first memory

00:22:57.480 will be of the COVID weirdness. That will be their baseline forever. And I think that's really a

00:23:03.420 tragedy. It's child abuse. Well, they say the formative years that forms who you are as a person.

00:23:10.360 And so these poor children who are going through those formative years during this time, I mean,

00:23:16.220 can, can, can we come back from it? There are people that I have spoken to that still haven't

00:23:23.880 left their house since March. It's terrible. Their husband or whoever in the family is the

00:23:30.680 designated person that leaves. And they have a pea pod for their, this one particular person has a

00:23:37.280 pea mat for its, their dog. They don't leave the house. This blows my mind that, you know,

00:23:46.780 some people are just so happy to be a bird in a gilded cage. The cage is nice, but you're still not

00:23:55.900 free. And I, I've got a real problem with being a bird that doesn't, you know, being a bird, I guess,

00:24:03.580 for lack of a better term that likes to crap on newspaper. I just want to be free, you know,

00:24:07.940 give me the grass, give me the grass. Uh, Tamara, um, I want to ask you, um, maybe your predictions

00:24:15.900 for 2021. Um, I think this is not going away. And I think, um, that because in the UK, they're already

00:24:27.860 talking about how to deal with the latest mutation that might be named COVID 21 or whatever. Um, so I

00:24:36.040 think we're going to see governments come up with a lot of excuses to hang onto the power they snatched

00:24:41.540 away from normal people. Uh, what are your predictions for 2021? Um, in 2021, I mean, I just hope that more

00:24:49.260 people can start to see what is actually happening around, you know, Ontario, Canada, the world, um,

00:24:59.200 give, give the dissenting voices more of a platform. We had here in Ontario, in Toronto, an ER doctor

00:25:05.300 speak out, and he was able to get some airtime on, uh, 680 News. He had some really valuable insight to bring

00:25:11.760 to the table. He is a frontline worker. He, I think, has been an ER doctor for 16 years. Um, these are

00:25:18.700 reasonable, rational people who are offering a perspective that's very valuable and for some

00:25:23.700 reason is being disregarded. So for 2021, I hope to see more of them and less vilification of those

00:25:32.560 people. And hopefully we can turn this around because I personally don't think it ends until

00:25:36.960 enough people get together and say enough is enough. Yeah. I think we're going to see maybe a

00:25:42.960 hardening of positions. So I think there are people who are going to be like, you know what?

00:25:47.540 I'm happy to just have my dog pee on a cotton pad on the floor and never leave my house again and

00:25:58.060 just Netflix and chill until I'm in a coffin one day. There are people like that out there. There are

00:26:04.160 also people out there who just say, you know what? It's not so bad wearing a mask and following these

00:26:09.660 obnoxious, stupid arrows on the floor. And they're lumped in that pile of people. I think are those people 1.00

00:26:14.760 who are happy to wear the modern day keyboard warrior mask where you can hide your identity and

00:26:21.120 still yell at other people. That's what I think the masks are. There's going to be those people on

00:26:25.660 one side and everybody else who was either against the lockdown, the masks, the infringements on their

00:26:33.580 liberties from the very beginning. Those people are going to be joined by people who are saying,

00:26:38.120 I see no benefit to everything that we've agreed to do. And so I'm not agreeing to do it anymore. I

00:26:45.240 think it's just going to harden off into those two sides. And there's going to be nobody left in

00:26:50.400 between. I think we are going to see more division in society and real clashes of those two groups of

00:26:57.160 people. And that's really unfortunate. And I blame first and foremost, the government, but also the

00:27:02.920 the mainstream media outlets. I mean, on one side, they claim unity and inclusiveness, and then they

00:27:10.820 intentionally our strength, except when you're talking about diversity of thought. Yeah, let's

00:27:16.760 vilify anyone who says anything in opposite of what we're putting out. And, and what's the end goal

00:27:24.720 here? You know, that's something I keep coming back to as well as what's the end goal. And we see that

00:27:30.160 the masks aren't working, the distancing isn't working. None of these measures are protecting

00:27:34.620 the vulnerable people who are still dying in the long term care homes under horrible conditions.

00:27:39.740 That's another story that I was, I've been pretty focused on. And we're still waiting on an access

00:27:46.040 to information request on on some of that, those those details to confirm. But this, you know,

00:27:53.160 the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

00:27:59.180 So who's insane here? Is it the people still doing the same stuff over and over and expecting

00:28:05.780 different results? Because the cases are going up, people are dying in long term care homes,

00:28:10.240 the hospitals aren't overrun. So what are we doing?

00:28:14.340 You know what, that's a great place to leave this interview. What on earth are we doing? I know what

00:28:19.320 I'm doing. I know what you're doing. We're fighting for freedom. We're telling the stories of the little

00:28:23.120 guy. And we're trying to put the government in its place a little bit every single day. But what is

00:28:28.540 everybody else doing? Our governments are unelected, unaccountable health bureaucrats, 0.93

00:28:34.020 the authoritarians in the general populace that now feel emboldened to curse out their fellow

00:28:41.340 citizens because they didn't stand on the right spot on the floor. What are we all doing? Let's 0.83

00:28:48.340 hope in 2021 sanity returns, but I'm not optimistic. Fingers crossed.

00:28:53.080 Well, Tamara, thanks so much for coming on the show. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. And here's

00:29:01.000 hoping you get a little time off from fighting for freedom to spend with your beautiful family.

00:29:06.580 Thank you, Sheila. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

00:29:08.940 Thanks.

00:29:09.260 I think 2021 is not going to bring us any relief from the coronavirus restrictions. I think as is

00:29:29.280 the case with an average flu season, people are going to be sick as they are confined to the indoors

00:29:36.260 because of adverse Canadian weather. That's just how it is. That's why our flu season is when it is,

00:29:42.980 is because we're indoors together when it's cold outside. And I think our politicians are going to

00:29:48.800 use that as an excuse to keep their tight grip on our freedoms and civil liberties unless we fight

00:29:57.520 back. Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much as always for tuning in. I'll see

00:30:03.060 everybody back here in the same time in the same place next week. And remember, don't let the

00:30:09.280 government tell you that you've had too much to think.

00:30:33.060 So you're welcome.

Rebel News Podcast - December 31, 2020

Catching up with Tamara Ugolini

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