Rebel News Podcast - Chrystia Freeland wins world’s best diplomat award (PLUS Lindsay Shepherd sues Laurier U)

00:00:00.000 Tonight, Canada's Chrystia Freeland wins an award for the world's best diplomat.

00:00:04.980 Oh, it gets even better.

00:00:06.820 It's June 14th, and you're watching The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:14.540 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:00:18.340 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:00:22.060 You come here once a year with a sign, and you feel morally superior.

00:00:25.040 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my

00:00:30.060 bloody right to do so.

00:00:35.580 So Chrystia Freeland, Canada's foreign minister, she won an award for being the world's bestest

00:00:42.780 diplomat ever yesterday.

00:00:45.860 I'm not even kidding.

00:00:46.560 It reminds me of Barack Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize immediately after he was inaugurated.

00:00:53.760 Immediately.

00:00:54.020 He didn't even do anything yet.

00:00:56.920 But the Norwegian Parliamentary Committee that makes such decisions liked the cut of his

00:01:01.200 jib.

00:01:01.520 They liked that he was a leftist, so he won it.

00:01:04.180 I mean, seriously, just days after Donald Trump's historic meeting with Kim Jong-un,

00:01:08.640 a meeting that U.S. senior diplomat Mike Pompeo, first as a CIA director and now as a secretary

00:01:14.160 of state, Mike Pompeo handled many of the operational details of that.

00:01:17.720 But no, no, no, no, no.

00:01:19.140 You're so mistaken, people.

00:01:20.940 Chrystia Freeland is the best diplomat in the world.

00:01:23.920 I mean, I remember when she just nailed that European trade deal. 0.99

00:01:29.300 Do you?

00:01:29.600 We have worked very hard with the European Commission and with many countries and members of the

00:01:36.780 European Union.

00:01:37.780 I was working very hard.

00:01:38.780 I was working very hard.

00:01:39.780 I worked very hard.

00:01:40.780 But it seems clear for me, for the Canada, that the European Union is not able to have an international

00:01:44.960 agreement.

00:01:45.760 Even with a country with a country that has such European values such as the Canada, and even with

00:01:52.760 a country that is so gentile and with a lot of patience like the Canada, and even with a

00:01:58.140 country that is so gentile and with a lot of patience like the Canada, and even with a

00:02:02.140 country that is so gentile and with a lot of patience like the Canada, and even with a country that is so gentile and with a lot of patience like the Canada.

00:02:17.520 Yeah, that's falling apart now, that trade deal, as you may know, Italy wants out of it.

00:02:24.400 Okay, well, maybe it was for this?

00:02:27.840 The European Trade Commissioner, Cecilia Malmstrom, and I call each other sisters in trade.

00:02:34.060 We sign our emails, hugs.

00:02:36.560 Really?

00:02:36.960 You actually do that?

00:02:37.820 Yes, we do.

00:02:38.420 Wow.

00:02:38.640 We sometimes send each other smiley faces in particularly difficult moments.

00:02:42.660 No, I don't think that's why they said she was the best.

00:02:45.300 Well, then what was it for?

00:02:47.360 Was it for the diplomatic successes of Trudeau's big trip to India?

00:02:53.320 No, no, no, that's more a fiasco.

00:02:56.340 Oh, was it for her deft touch during the NAFTA negotiations?

00:03:01.100 I mean, look at that dream team.

00:03:03.240 I mean, these people have literally months of experience in negotiating international trade deals or something.

00:03:10.900 Or I don't know, they read about it on Wikipedia or something.

00:03:13.780 Look at that crack team of killer negotiators.

00:03:17.340 Was it for her successes there?

00:03:19.580 No, of course not.

00:03:21.360 Like Obama's Nobel Prize, this was not a recognition of achievement.

00:03:24.760 It was bestowing a political agreement by the group that gave her the prize.

00:03:28.900 So it was really just a way of saying, we don't like Donald Trump, so we like someone who's anti-Trump.

00:03:33.360 And being given this award, the award I put it to you, is actually a dangerous sign.

00:03:38.860 If you're winning this award, you know, if you're actually in real life trying to get a deal with Trump,

00:03:45.020 you don't want this award because it's only given to Trump haters.

00:03:50.220 But maybe Trudeau and Freeland don't actually want to deal with Trump.

00:03:53.100 I'm starting to suspect that.

00:03:54.600 So it's a bit of a laugh.

00:03:55.420 Trump and Pompeo have a successful summit with North Korea that, if it fulfills its promise, 0.86

00:04:00.920 will be the biggest diplomatic achievement in half a century.

00:04:05.040 But Chrystia Freeland is awarded the bestest diplomat in the history of the whole world,

00:04:09.440 plus the solar system, plus the galaxy, too.

00:04:12.280 Got it.

00:04:12.940 But if you think that is lame, check out her acceptance speech.

00:04:18.460 It is quite something.

00:04:20.500 Now, I'm going to try and be fair and give it credit where due.

00:04:24.800 I'm going to play a lot of clips of it.

00:04:27.500 But let's just start from the start where she just riffs off the cuff a bit.

00:04:31.800 I'm also very Canadian, so I'm quite flustered to have so many nice things said about me.

00:04:39.560 We believe modesty is a virtue in Canada, and this is sort of not in that zone.

00:04:45.840 Yeah, I actually do think modesty is a Canadian trait, but bragging about being modest is sort of a Trudeau liberal trait,

00:04:56.260 because it's a kind of self-praise, especially when you're trying to tweak Trump's nose.

00:05:01.640 And it's true for Joe Canadian, but it's not really true for Justin Trudeau, is it?

00:05:08.380 It's modest?

00:05:10.340 Moi? 0.84

00:05:10.920 Yeah, mais oui.

00:05:13.580 No, no, no.

00:05:14.720 I don't think so.

00:05:16.400 Anyways, let's look at Freeland's speech on its own terms.

00:05:19.180 Here are some clips.

00:05:20.700 So, tonight, I would like to speak about a challenge that affects us all, and I believe worries us all,

00:05:27.880 and that is the weakening of the rules-based international order

00:05:31.320 and the threat that resurgent authoritarianism poses to liberal democracy.

00:05:37.020 Okay, that sounds good.

00:05:38.060 I'm against authoritarianism.

00:05:40.120 Let's listen to some more.

00:05:41.200 She starts out by praising what she calls rules-based systems for how countries get along with each other.

00:05:47.740 But that really doesn't have anything to do with authoritarianism versus a liberal democracy, does it?

00:05:52.380 I mean, whether or not a country follows its trade treaties, for example,

00:05:56.800 what does that have to do with how it treats its own people domestically?

00:06:00.340 Now, we harbored no illusions then that institutions such as the WTO or the IMF or the World Bank or the UN were perfect,

00:06:10.080 or that our own democracies at home, with their sausage-making methods of legislating and governing, were without flaw.

00:06:17.540 But there was a broad consensus that the Atlantic nations plus Japan led an international system of rules

00:06:25.500 that had allowed our peoples to thrive and which would surely continue to do so.

00:06:32.240 See, right there, do you think that countries thrive because of foreign treaties?

00:06:37.820 Or is it maybe more because of freedom and democracy within their own borders?

00:06:42.560 Really, what does the World Bank or the IMF have to do with how well a country does?

00:06:48.140 I mean, they usually come in to the failed states. 0.94

00:06:51.620 I mean, freedom, free markets, the rule of law, independent courts, property rights,

00:06:55.540 that's what makes a country's people unleash their opportunity and be strong.

00:07:01.320 Not the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank that give loans with conditions and manipulate currencies.

00:07:09.000 I think Freeland is confused a bit.

00:07:12.080 Here's a little more.

00:07:12.740 In Latin America, in the Caribbean, in Africa, and in Asia,

00:07:18.020 developing countries have joined these institutions and accepted their rules,

00:07:22.020 and that has delivered ever greater living standards to their people.

00:07:26.820 Is that really why those countries have higher living standards?

00:07:29.580 Because of rules imposed on them by globalist, unelected bureaucracies?

00:07:35.480 I'm going to go with no.

00:07:37.580 Not at all.

00:07:38.340 There is no correlation whatsoever.

00:07:40.740 In fact, Switzerland is not rich because it's in the United Nations or other treaties.

00:07:46.520 It's actually rather neutral and apart from other deals.

00:07:49.520 It's rich because it's free and civilized and democratic.

00:07:52.960 Freeland flips it upside down.

00:07:54.660 She says it's globalism that makes countries rich, but they can still be unfree, actually.

00:08:01.100 She's muddled in her thinking, which is typical of Trudeau's team,

00:08:04.380 strong on cliches and talking points and one-liners,

00:08:06.800 not strong on principled, coherent philosophy.

00:08:09.160 But let me give her credit.

00:08:11.200 She says that Venezuela and China are bad.

00:08:13.940 That was the idea that, as authoritarian countries joined the global economy and grew rich,

00:08:20.480 they would inevitably adopt Western political freedoms, too.

00:08:24.820 That hasn't always happened.

00:08:27.200 Indeed, in recent years, even some democracies have gone in the other direction

00:08:32.020 and slipped into authoritarianism, notably and tragically, Venezuela.

00:08:37.800 And some countries that had embarked on the difficult journey from communism to democratic capitalism

00:08:43.040 have moved backwards.

00:08:44.920 The saddest personal example for me is Russia. 0.99

00:08:47.920 Even China, whose economic success in lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty

00:08:54.420 is one of the great accomplishments of recent times,

00:08:58.440 stands as a rebuke to our belief in the inevitability of liberal democracy.

00:09:04.180 Some truth there. 0.97

00:09:05.560 China is evil. 0.99

00:09:06.780 The government is. 0.98

00:09:08.220 Even though it's economically liberalizing.

00:09:10.500 But to say that China follows the rules of international law is laughably false.

00:09:15.680 Whether it's about human rights, treaties, or trade treaties,

00:09:19.160 China just doesn't follow those deals. 1.00

00:09:21.680 But that's the joke here.

00:09:23.080 There is no such thing as an international law.

00:09:25.800 That's a fiction.

00:09:26.460 There's no international legislature that writes laws.

00:09:28.540 There's no international court that judges laws.

00:09:31.540 There's no international police force that implements those laws.

00:09:34.820 It's a fiction.

00:09:35.680 I think she's groping for a common thread here.

00:09:39.020 China, Russia, Venezuela.

00:09:40.700 It's not globalism.

00:09:42.620 It's not foreign treaties or international law.

00:09:44.460 It's that all those countries restrict the freedom of their own people.

00:09:47.760 It's not treaties.

00:09:50.360 Maybe she gets it, though.

00:09:51.220 I don't know.

00:09:51.480 It's hard to understand her.

00:09:52.480 But then she gets weird.

00:09:53.680 She moves from that complaint to complaining about free Western countries.

00:09:59.380 So she complains about China, Venezuela.

00:10:01.320 Good.

00:10:01.580 Thanks.

00:10:02.320 But get this.

00:10:03.480 And within the club of wealthy Western nations,

00:10:06.940 we are seeing homegrown anti-democratic forces on the rise.

00:10:11.780 Whether they are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, incels, nativists, or radical anti-globalists,

00:10:19.020 such movements seek to undermine our democracies from within.

00:10:22.980 Say what?

00:10:23.880 Are neo-Nazis a political or economic or diplomatic force anywhere in the world?

00:10:29.760 Anywhere at all? 0.90

00:10:31.400 White supremacists?

00:10:32.440 I mean, there are some white supremacist people in the world.

00:10:36.280 Sure.

00:10:36.640 But do they run a country?

00:10:38.740 Do they run an economy?

00:10:39.820 Do they run a military?

00:10:40.820 Do they run a foreign affairs department?

00:10:43.100 What does this have to do with what she calls international rules-based foreign policy, again?

00:10:47.280 Or domestic liberties? 0.59

00:10:49.260 An incel.

00:10:50.340 She used the word, a word none of us had heard until a couple of months ago when some guy in

00:10:55.060 North Toronto drove a truck down a sidewalk killing people.

00:10:57.800 And he allegedly made a Facebook comment before he did that about being an incel, which is

00:11:02.540 short for an involuntary celibate.

00:11:05.400 In other words, someone who can't get a date.

00:11:08.000 Really?

00:11:08.320 So some murderer makes a Facebook post about not being able to get a date, and that is proof

00:11:15.720 that he represents a deep thrust to Western civilization on par with authoritarian regimes

00:11:22.500 in Russia, China, and Venezuela.

00:11:24.140 Who wrote this crud?

00:11:27.320 I bet Christia Freeland wrote it herself.

00:11:30.180 But my favorite, or least favorite line, there is radical anti-globalists.

00:11:35.940 When she said that, did you hear that?

00:11:37.180 That's a threat.

00:11:37.940 Radical anti-globalists.

00:11:39.580 As in someone who wants decisions to be made in their own region, not by some foreign United

00:11:44.900 Nations or European Union bureaucrat far away.

00:11:48.520 So Christia Freeland is sort of condemning Brexit, isn't she?

00:11:51.100 And the governments in Italy and Hungary and elsewhere in the world who are rejecting the

00:11:57.040 one-world government that the UN points to, that Christia Freeland loves.

00:12:03.020 But how is being a radical local democracy activist, how is that authoritarian to be anti-UN

00:12:10.400 and pro-Brexit?

00:12:11.160 Isn't being anti-globalist, by definition, very democratic?

00:12:14.540 You want local control, local decision-making.

00:12:16.900 You're against anonymous bureaucrats at the UN or the EU making decisions for you.

00:12:21.520 How is that authoritarian?

00:12:23.100 I think it's the opposite.

00:12:24.160 Muddled thinking here.

00:12:25.540 She then indulges in some vague paranoia about Russia hacking elections.

00:12:29.220 Obviously, she's a Hillary Clinton supporter who's just parroting the talking points there. 1.00

00:12:33.720 But then she says this.

00:12:35.300 This is a speech in Washington, D.C.

00:12:37.400 right after her spat with Donald Trump over NAFTA.

00:12:41.240 Why are liberal democracies vulnerable at home?

00:12:44.380 Now, here's why.

00:12:46.700 Angry populism thrives where the middle class is hollowed out, where people are losing ground

00:12:52.820 and losing hope, even as those at the very top are doing better than ever.

00:12:58.780 Hang on.

00:13:00.220 Populism is the will of the people, isn't it?

00:13:02.320 I mean, that's where the word populist, population, comes from, right?

00:13:05.120 How does populism endanger democracy?

00:13:09.440 Isn't that sort of a synonym for democracy?

00:13:12.880 Isn't that actually what saves a country?

00:13:16.100 Democracy channels populism peacefully, safely, to allow countries to change their political

00:13:22.220 course without violence or revolution.

00:13:25.320 Isn't the opposite of populism authoritarianism?

00:13:29.140 The opposite of listening to the people is forcing your views on the people.

00:13:33.400 Isn't the wonderful miracle of throwing out bad leaders peacefully, like was just done

00:13:37.320 in the Ontario provincial election.

00:13:39.000 Isn't that the definition of populism?

00:13:41.760 Safe, peaceful transfer of power.

00:13:45.280 Isn't the United Nations or the European Union or the World Bank or the IMF, aren't those

00:13:49.460 anti-democratic because they're immune to the will of the people that they seek to rule over?

00:13:53.940 She is confused.

00:13:54.980 Here's some more.

00:13:55.440 When people feel their economic future is in jeopardy, when they believe their children

00:14:00.800 have fewer opportunities than they themselves had in their youth, that's when people are

00:14:05.960 vulnerable to the demagogue who scapegoats the outsider, the other, whether it's immigrants

00:14:11.880 at home or trading partners abroad.

00:14:14.560 Is she talking about Trump, but like Justin Trudeau, she lacks the courage to actually name

00:14:20.060 him by name?

00:14:21.460 I think she is.

00:14:22.180 That's how the CBC state broadcasters are spinning that.

00:14:24.760 But Trump has brought record low unemployment to America, a surging economic growth rate.

00:14:30.740 Factories are coming back home.

00:14:32.520 Concessions are being made to America from China, from Germany, and surely soon from Canada.

00:14:37.440 U.S. business confidence is at record highs.

00:14:39.800 Why is she still talking as if Trump is taking advantage of poor people as opposed to Trump

00:14:46.200 turning poor people into prosperous people?

00:14:51.540 Talk about projecting.

00:14:53.620 But sure, she'll snipe at anti-immigrant sentiments, another veil reference to Donald Trump and

00:14:58.360 his wall.

00:14:59.960 But talk about sneering.

00:15:01.520 You know, only 8% of Canadians want more immigration, according to the Liberal Party's own polls.

00:15:07.420 Talk about authoritarianism.

00:15:08.900 Talk about anti-democracy to push for open borders in the face of those poll numbers. 0.95

00:15:13.880 She's the bully. 0.98

00:15:15.000 She's the authoritarian in a way. 0.98

00:15:17.640 And blaming foreign actors, as she says.

00:15:20.720 Isn't she the one who just claimed Russia was hacking elections?

00:15:24.940 Was this speech written by committee?

00:15:27.220 It's so muddled.

00:15:28.160 I think this crack team here wrote her speech.

00:15:31.880 I really do.

00:15:33.200 Here's another clip.

00:15:33.960 The fact is, middle class working families aren't wrong to feel left behind.

00:15:40.100 Median wages have been stagnating.

00:15:42.880 Jobs are becoming more precarious.

00:15:45.520 Pensions uncertain.

00:15:47.000 Housing, child care, and education harder to afford.

00:15:50.520 Is she talking about America?

00:15:52.340 Because that's not true.

00:15:53.320 Is she talking about Canada?

00:15:54.440 Who is she talking about?

00:15:56.660 Does she even know?

00:15:58.260 What does this have to do with diplomacy?

00:16:01.000 Look, I've been critical, but let me show you one sentence from her speech that I agree

00:16:04.940 with completely.

00:16:05.460 But setting our own house in order is just one part of the struggle.

00:16:10.940 The truth is that authoritarianism is on the march, and it's time for liberal democracy

00:16:16.820 to fight back.

00:16:18.900 To do that, we need to raise our game.

00:16:22.100 Okay, great.

00:16:22.960 So what about Trudeau's favorite countries, like Iran, with whom he's rebuilding business

00:16:28.300 relations and offering to renew diplomatic ties?

00:16:30.840 What about China?

00:16:31.640 China, that Trudeau says is his favorite country because of its basic dictatorship.

00:16:36.240 Remember that?

00:16:37.260 There's a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship

00:16:46.840 is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime.

00:16:51.440 So that's Trudeau.

00:16:53.140 He likes China's basic dictatorship because it gets things done quickly.

00:16:57.720 And here's Chrystia Freeland last night on just that subject.

00:17:01.640 Authoritarianism is also often justified as a more efficient way of getting things done.

00:17:06.320 No messy, contested elections.

00:17:08.700 No wrenching shift from one short-termist governing party to another.

00:17:13.600 No troublesome judicial oversight.

00:17:15.980 No time-consuming public consultation.

00:17:18.120 How much more effective, the apologists argue, for a paramount leader with a long-term vision,

00:17:25.060 unlimited power, and permanent tenure to rule?

00:17:28.120 Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what Justin Trudeau says he likes about China.

00:17:32.660 Talk about a confused government.

00:17:35.320 This is going on too long.

00:17:36.780 I'm sorry I'm showing you so much, but I want to show it to you.

00:17:38.660 I know you're not going to see this anywhere else.

00:17:40.640 Let me show you what Chrystia Freeland said about America.

00:17:43.600 Okay.

00:17:44.000 Biggest diplomatic fiasco since, well, I guess India.

00:17:46.960 Trump offered a concession in private to Justin Trudeau.

00:17:51.860 Trudeau accepted it in private.

00:17:54.380 And the concession was about the five-year expiration of NAFTA.

00:17:58.780 So Trump and Trudeau got along in private.

00:18:01.060 Trump made a concession to Trudeau.

00:18:02.980 And then when Trump got on his plane and left, in public, Trudeau had a press conference

00:18:08.260 saying Trump was insulting Canadians and pushing us around.

00:18:12.200 Right after Trump made a concession and gave Trudeau what he wanted, of course Trump was

00:18:17.060 furious.

00:18:17.780 That's a big problem.

00:18:19.840 In fact, Trump said that little outburst by the shiny pony is going to cost Canada a lot

00:18:25.840 of money.

00:18:26.620 I actually like Justin.

00:18:28.180 You know, I think he's good.

00:18:29.640 I like him.

00:18:30.600 But he shouldn't have done that.

00:18:31.580 That was a mistake.

00:18:32.420 That's going to cost him a lot of money.

00:18:34.360 Okay.

00:18:34.700 So here's Canada's attempt at damage control.

00:18:39.860 The 232 tariffs introduced by the United States are illegal under WTO and NAFTA rules.

00:18:47.280 They are protectionism, pure, and simple.

00:18:50.480 They are not a response to unfair actions by other countries that put American industry

00:18:55.620 at a disadvantage.

00:18:57.440 They are a naked example of the United States putting its thumb on the scale in violation

00:19:04.520 of the very rules it helped to write.

00:19:08.520 Canada has no choice but to retaliate with a measured, perfectly reciprocal, dollar-for-dollar

00:19:17.100 response.

00:19:18.420 And we will do so.

00:19:20.540 We act in close collaboration with our like-minded partners in the EU and Mexico.

00:19:26.120 They, too, are your allies, and they share our astonishment and our resolve.

00:19:33.040 Yeah, I'm guessing that crack team of Christian's angels wrote this speech. 1.00

00:19:40.040 I hear that when you're in an insult fight with Donald Trump, the best way to win is

00:19:45.920 keep poking him.

00:19:47.940 I mean, it's not like the U.S. economy is 10 times larger than Canada's.

00:19:52.020 If Canada and U.S. trade were to fall in half because of an insane Armageddon trade war,

00:19:57.760 I don't even think it could ever get that bad, well, that would reduce U.S. GDP by 1%.

00:20:06.060 It's not great for America, but they're on pace for, what, 4%, 4.5% record GDP growth

00:20:12.680 this year.

00:20:13.440 So you take 1% off that, that's not even going to dent it.

00:20:18.300 But if you cut Canada-U.S. trade in half, that would reduce Canadian GDP by 10%.

00:20:24.700 In other words, it would be the worst depression in Canada since the Dirty 30s.

00:20:31.780 So yeah, good idea to keep poking the bear.

00:20:35.860 The price will be paid, in part, by American consumers and American businesses.

00:20:41.100 Yeah, not really, sister, but no, she's going to take on Trump in America, and the media love 1.00

00:20:46.480 her for it.

00:20:47.760 Today, the U.S. economy stands at just a quarter of the world's.

00:20:51.760 Together, the EU, Canada, and Japan, your allies in the G7 and beyond, account for just

00:20:59.380 a little bit more.

00:21:00.900 China, meanwhile, produces nearly 20% of the world's GDP, and in our lifetimes, its economy

00:21:07.300 is set to become the world's largest.

00:21:10.100 So is she saying we can go it alone without the United States?

00:21:13.820 I think that's what she said.

00:21:17.420 I think she's saying she might get to like China better, I think.

00:21:22.180 Isn't she saying that?

00:21:23.400 If Trump doesn't want to give her what she wants, maybe China will. 0.98

00:21:26.420 Didn't she just denounce China a minute ago? 0.76

00:21:29.780 Maybe she didn't.

00:21:31.060 I'm unclear here.

00:21:32.060 Maybe her speech writing team was split in two or something. 0.99

00:21:34.940 But I think she's saying that if she doesn't get her way, if Donald Trump doesn't bow down

00:21:38.980 before globalism and the United Nations and do what she says, he's, well, listen to her

00:21:45.140 say it.

00:21:46.020 One answer is to give up on the rules-based international order, to give up on the Western

00:21:51.280 alliance, and to seek to survive in a Meternikian world defined not by common values, mutually

00:21:58.660 agreed upon rules, and shared prosperity, but rather by a ruthless struggle between the

00:22:05.040 great powers governed solely by the narrow, short-term, and mercantilist pursuit of self-interest.

00:22:13.500 Canada could never thrive in such a world.

00:22:16.800 But you, still the world's largest economy, may be tempted.

00:22:21.540 Boy, I'd like to see her say that to Donald Trump's face.

00:22:24.500 Actually, no, no, no.

00:22:25.280 Sorry, I mean, I take that back.

00:22:26.540 I would not.

00:22:27.060 But please do not let Chrystia Freeland say that to Trump's face.

00:22:31.380 Nobody bring this speech to Trump's attention, please.

00:22:34.660 There is just too much kookiness in this speech to show it all to you.

00:22:38.120 But look at this sentence.

00:22:39.460 Here's part of her master diplomatic plan. 0.95

00:22:43.120 To hold the door open to new friends, to countries that have their own troubled past,

00:22:48.720 such as Tunisia, Senegal, Indonesia, Mexico, Botswana, or Ukraine.

00:22:54.640 Yeah, that's Canada's economic and military future.

00:22:58.860 Mexico and Botswana.

00:23:02.280 Here's some more.

00:23:03.320 This is the difficult truth.

00:23:05.460 As the West's relative might inevitably declines, now is the time when, more than ever, we must

00:23:13.760 set aside the idea that might is right.

00:23:16.340 Look, I don't even know what she means.

00:23:18.420 I'm not even sure if she does either.

00:23:20.840 Chrystia Freeland is not the world's best diplomat. 0.51

00:23:24.440 She's an affirmative action quota hire. 0.98

00:23:26.220 Trudeau said so himself when he appointed her to cabinet.

00:23:29.880 Most of the time, being a token doesn't matter.

00:23:33.220 I mean, look at Miriam Monsef.

00:23:34.700 It's embarrassing, but really, who cares, other than our lack of self-respect and the humiliation

00:23:40.280 she brings to us.

00:23:41.420 But Chrystia Freeland is the woman who is personally leading our NAFTA negotiations.

00:23:48.380 Top diplomat in the world?

00:23:51.740 What do you think?

00:23:54.400 Stay with us for more.

00:23:55.580 We've got a couple of lawyers on today.

00:23:56.980 Thank you.

00:23:57.040 Thank you.

00:24:04.700 That might have been seen as problematic by some of the students, maybe even threatening.

00:24:20.740 I don't see how someone would rationally think it was threatening.

00:24:27.180 I could see how it might challenge their existing ideas, but for me, that's the spirit of the

00:24:32.080 university, is challenging ideas that you already have.

00:24:34.700 It's one or multiple students who have come forward saying that this is something that

00:24:40.820 they were concerned about and that it made them uncomfortable.

00:24:43.120 You're perfectly welcome to your own opinions, but when you're bringing it into the context

00:24:50.280 of the classroom, that can become problematic.

00:24:53.920 And that can become something that creates an unsafe learning environment for students.

00:25:00.760 But when they leave the university, they're going to be exposed to these ideas.

00:25:04.060 So I don't see how I'm doing a disservice to the class by exposing them to ideas that

00:25:09.840 are really out there.

00:25:10.740 And I'm sorry I'm crying.

00:25:11.880 I'm stressed out because this to me is so wrong.

00:25:14.820 It's so wrong.

00:25:15.500 As you know, that is an excerpt from an interrogation of Lindsay Shepard, a young woman who is a

00:25:23.220 master student at Wilfrid Laurier University.

00:25:26.040 She was being persecuted.

00:25:27.480 I'm not going to say prosecuted because that implies rules and norms.

00:25:30.780 She was being persecuted, bullied, to use a phrase, by politically correct professors. 0.97

00:25:35.940 You heard one of them there saying she was creating an unsafe learning environment for 0.98

00:25:40.880 daring to show a short clip of Professor Jordan Peterson in the context of a debate.

00:25:46.700 Unbelievable.

00:25:47.620 Well, very thoughtfully, Lindsay Shepard recorded that conversation.

00:25:52.440 I don't think people would have believed that it could have been that bad had she not

00:25:57.820 reported it, recorded it.

00:25:59.440 Well, she managed to beat back that persecution just through the sheer weight of public opinion.

00:26:06.160 But the attacks on her continued.

00:26:09.320 I think it's safe to say that Lindsay Shepard has been blackballed and blacklisted in academia. 0.99

00:26:18.160 That's not just my opinion.

00:26:19.660 It's Lindsay Shepard's own opinion.

00:26:21.500 And in fact, in recent days, she has filed a $3.6 million lawsuit against Wilfrid Laurier

00:26:29.020 for doing just that, for making her unemployable because of their aspersions.

00:26:35.820 Joining us now via Skype is her lawyer, Howard Leavitt.

00:26:40.360 Familiar to our viewers, he's a high-profile lawyer.

00:26:44.240 He's written six legal textbooks.

00:26:46.340 But he's not just a scholarly actor.

00:26:49.100 He writes popular law columns for the National Post.

00:26:53.600 What a pleasure to have him with us.

00:26:55.860 Howard, nice to see you again.

00:26:57.400 And I'm delighted that you're representing Lindsay Shepard.

00:27:00.360 I feel that she's in good hands.

00:27:02.680 Well, so am I.

00:27:03.380 I'm delighted I'm representing Lindsay Shepard.

00:27:05.460 I'll make sure she's in good hands.

00:27:07.320 Well, and I'm not just praising you because I like you.

00:27:10.400 I know that she went to you when she was being interrogated for help to navigate the

00:27:17.240 university's attacks on her.

00:27:20.160 And you gave her counsel even in that first instance.

00:27:22.900 Am I right?

00:27:23.960 Yes, I did.

00:27:24.640 Right from the outset, we refused to participate in the investigation the university held.

00:27:29.420 We didn't trust its bona fidedness.

00:27:31.840 And everything since then has proved that we were right.

00:27:34.720 Give me a couple of examples.

00:27:36.880 I mean, you have expertise.

00:27:38.800 One of the things you write about a lot in the National Post is employment law, as in

00:27:42.860 there's a right way to fire someone in a wrong way, a right way to have an internal

00:27:47.380 hearing in a wrong way.

00:27:49.120 Can you list for me, in your view, some of the things that Wilfrid Laurier did wrong?

00:27:54.760 Because, of course, a university should have the ability to take a student, a professor,

00:27:59.940 a teaching assistant to task if they do something genuinely wrong.

00:28:04.040 But tell me procedurally and substantively some of the things that Wilfrid Laurier did

00:28:09.660 that just were wrong, wrong, wrong.

00:28:13.180 Well, first of all, they didn't follow any of their own procedures, any of them.

00:28:16.980 And I delineate that in detail in the statement of claim.

00:28:20.100 Secondly, they invented a fictitious complaint or complaints.

00:28:24.040 We just heard that in the short passage you played about the complaint or complaints.

00:28:28.440 There were no complaints or complaints.

00:28:30.460 And they lied about that.

00:28:32.280 And in fact, when Rabbi Buchanan apologized initially, he said, well, really, I had to

00:28:36.620 while apologizing.

00:28:37.740 He said, well, I really had to deal with the complaints I received.

00:28:39.860 And of course, there were no complaints, as we've absolutely ascertained.

00:28:43.660 Thirdly, they viciously attacked her.

00:28:48.000 And it's one thing to reprimand someone for something they do that's wrong, but it has

00:28:52.240 to be wrong.

00:28:53.160 And what she did wasn't wrong.

00:28:54.700 In fact, if you look at the Wilfrid Laurier Act, which gives us its jurisdiction legally,

00:29:00.180 it's to promote free inquiry.

00:29:02.800 Well, they did exactly the opposite.

00:29:05.260 And they were brutal and abusive, three on one for 55 minutes.

00:29:10.720 And then after she leaves Rabbi Buchanan's tutelage, if I can call it that, she gets to point to

00:29:18.160 another professor who's already taken a public position against her and then treats her in

00:29:24.400 a way that she has real complaint with following that.

00:29:27.200 Yeah.

00:29:27.300 So everything I've done from beginning to end has been atrocious.

00:29:35.220 Now, the 55-minute interrogation, which so many of us have heard, was shocking.

00:29:40.960 And I think it rallied so many.

00:29:43.320 I was even pleased that reporters who generally are sympathetic to political correctness,

00:29:48.940 they were so shocked by this one instance, by the recording, that I think they rallied to

00:29:53.320 Lindsay Shepard's side.

00:29:54.700 I was actually pleased with the mass of reporters in Canada, commentators.

00:29:58.820 I think they were generally on her side because it was so egregious.

00:30:01.520 But that's what happened in their private interrogation.

00:30:05.100 Did the university also have a bit of a PR strategy to throw Lindsay under the bus 1.00

00:30:11.180 in response to her recording?

00:30:15.040 I mean, the interrogation itself was bad enough and we heard her breaking into tears.

00:30:19.840 And I met Lindsay Shepard.

00:30:20.820 She was at our Rebel Live conference just a couple of weeks ago.

00:30:24.540 She seems to me to be a very sensitive person.

00:30:28.960 Like, I don't think she's a battle warrior who loves to fight.

00:30:32.720 I mean, she struck me as someone who was pushed into this role unwillingly, almost.

00:30:39.440 Did they abuse her in public in other ways, too, Howard?

00:30:43.140 Destiny sought her out for certain in this case.

00:30:46.320 And now she realizes what an important mission she's inadvertently become part of.

00:30:54.880 And she doesn't want what's happened to her to continue happening.

00:30:58.120 She realizes how treacherous campus life is and how hard people have to fight to purify it

00:31:06.820 from the rancor of political correctness on campus.

00:31:11.180 So, since she's been treated, anyway, go ahead with your question as a result.

00:31:17.740 No, no, that was a good point.

00:31:19.540 I mean, you're confirming my sense that she didn't choose this.

00:31:23.960 She was thrust into it, but she's risen to the occasion.

00:31:26.600 I'm sorry.

00:31:27.120 I sort of put a double-barreled question at you.

00:31:29.100 Let me go back to the other part.

00:31:30.340 Other than that interrogation, has the university done...

00:31:34.900 I haven't read the statement of claim yet, but maybe we can post it underneath this video

00:31:39.120 for people to read.

00:31:39.960 I'd like to read it carefully all the way through.

00:31:42.040 And I know that it's your allegations the university has yet to reply with their statement

00:31:46.940 of defense, but I look forward to reading it.

00:31:49.880 I can't...

00:31:50.980 As you know, I'm limited in what I can say publicly.

00:31:55.060 It's a little bit like the Casey Hill case where he was sued for a million dollars for

00:31:59.860 talking about a statement of claim on the floor or just outside the legislature.

00:32:04.520 Right.

00:32:04.760 So, I don't want to be accused of that.

00:32:07.200 So, I don't want to delineate the grounds, but I can say this.

00:32:10.540 A department chair went into a class and did something that was embarrassing to her immediately

00:32:14.600 after.

00:32:15.600 Then she was appointed to be under another professor who had already publicly attacked

00:32:20.520 her and her position.

00:32:21.680 And she says, and I delineate them on my statement of claim, that professor then did three more

00:32:27.080 things that were injurious and damaging to her.

00:32:30.400 And another professor also got in on the act.

00:32:34.120 And again, that's talked about on my statement of claim, but she just seemed to be bullied 1.00

00:32:38.080 and harassed from start to finish.

00:32:40.700 It sounds that way.

00:32:42.300 Well, I'd like to post...

00:32:44.140 Obviously, it's filed in court, so it is now a publicly available document.

00:32:48.260 I'd like to post that under this video.

00:32:49.940 I think our people may not be sophisticated lawyers by training, but I think they'll have

00:32:55.720 enough common sense and knowledge to read through with great interest.

00:32:59.980 And it'll be her side of the story finally told in full.

00:33:03.040 That's how...

00:33:03.560 I mean, I haven't read it yet, but I look forward to reading the details.

00:33:06.380 And I understand why you don't want to articulate everything on TV as opposed to just in court.

00:33:12.560 I don't want to give the other side an opportunity to file any counter.

00:33:17.820 Got it.

00:33:18.280 I take your point.

00:33:19.400 And that's very...

00:33:20.100 And I can see right away that it's very wise that she's chosen you to be her counsel.

00:33:25.560 Now, when you file a legal document...

00:33:27.500 Just so we're clear for your listeners and viewers, when you read it, it will be very easy

00:33:35.000 to understand.

00:33:36.200 I wrote it with that in mind.

00:33:37.860 Excellent.

00:33:38.680 Well, I'm glad you did because there's a court of law and there's the court of public opinion.

00:33:43.020 And I think this case is important in both cases.

00:33:46.700 For people who don't have kids at university or who themselves have not been on university

00:33:52.080 in a while, they probably don't quite understand how gravely academic freedom has been jeopardized.

00:33:59.320 Jordan Peterson has shone a bit of light on that.

00:34:01.580 So I think this case will have a salutary public policy impact.

00:34:05.420 Well, I hope so.

00:34:07.880 You know, one thing that's very interesting, this year, in fact, yesterday, the university

00:34:13.240 reports just came out on enrollment universities and who is people's first students' first

00:34:17.800 choice and how many have enrolled or applied to different universities.

00:34:22.580 Wilfrid Laurier, of all Ontario universities, did the worst.

00:34:27.560 Wow.

00:34:28.040 Both choices and less enrollment generally.

00:34:30.600 Obviously, people here, either students and parents of students, heard about all of this

00:34:36.580 and said, I don't want my kid or I don't want myself to be going to Wilfrid Laurier.

00:34:41.520 It's obviously, if the 40 or 50 universities in the province, the fact that it came absolutely

00:34:47.080 worse and by significant margins is telling.

00:34:50.620 Isn't that true?

00:34:52.220 And what a reality check on the university that's an echo chamber that probably thinks

00:34:58.920 what they're doing is completely normal because to them it is, because they're just rebreathing

00:35:03.420 each other's air.

00:35:04.680 Whereas when the public sees this, they say, yikes, we're just going to slowly back away

00:35:10.780 from Laurier and go literally anywhere else.

00:35:12.800 That's a very interesting point.

00:35:15.020 Now, signaling somehow helps them.

00:35:18.120 And in fact, people get it.

00:35:19.560 Yeah.

00:35:20.060 To me, one of the main reasons that Ford did so well, despite his particular blemishes,

00:35:26.020 is that people had just had it.

00:35:28.440 Yeah.

00:35:29.020 The political correctness of Kathleen Wynne.

00:35:31.180 And they thought the NDP was more of the same.

00:35:33.480 Isn't that interesting?

00:35:34.860 Now, just in terms of the legal steps, because our people follow lawsuits.

00:35:38.700 You filed, I take it was called a statement of claim.

00:35:40.960 The university has a certain period of time to reply.

00:35:43.800 They can perhaps ask for an extension, which is normally granted just out of a courtesy.

00:35:50.200 But this thing, it seems to me that their statement of defense will be interesting because

00:35:56.300 it'll give an insight into their mind of how they justify this conduct.

00:36:00.820 But I have to tell you what excites me a lot about this is the documentary discovery, as

00:36:08.600 in the ability of you and Lindsay to have access to internal university records, whether

00:36:16.220 it's emails, memos, staff meetings.

00:36:19.300 There are some things that are subject to their lawyer's privacy, solicitor-client privilege.

00:36:24.180 But if they had a staff meeting, if they had memos, that would all be disclosable to you.

00:36:29.580 Am I right?

00:36:30.940 It's absolutely right.

00:36:33.020 And at one point, here's one bit from the statement of claim from our next professor.

00:36:38.260 This professor posted a syllabus.

00:36:41.520 And then her syllabus was a land acknowledgment.

00:36:43.680 You know what I'm talking about.

00:36:44.620 The Aboriginal land acknowledgments, head of every speech these days everywhere. 0.91

00:36:48.700 But in any event, she thought this was just a ridiculous piece of political correctness

00:36:54.340 to show a land acknowledgment at the top of a syllabus.

00:36:57.780 So she took the land acknowledgment, the little excerpt from the top of the syllabus, and tweeted 0.75

00:37:03.740 it out, saying, is this ridiculous?

00:37:05.480 We're not even having territorial acknowledgments on syllabus.

00:37:07.780 So the professor called her on the carpet and told her she must delete it right away.

00:37:15.380 She said, I'm not doing it.

00:37:16.660 Delete my tweet.

00:37:17.360 No, I'm not deleting it.

00:37:18.600 She said, you are violating my intellectual property.

00:37:21.680 Oh, my God. 0.98

00:37:23.160 And she said, this is ridiculous. 0.96

00:37:24.940 And she said, she was going to complain to the dean if she didn't take it down. 0.92

00:37:27.840 She didn't take it down.

00:37:28.860 And the dean came back to her and said, it's not her intellectual property, Professor Nicholson's.

00:37:36.440 So what happens next?

00:37:39.420 We know that there was a meeting held by the dean with certain members of the faculty immediately

00:37:46.120 after this.

00:37:47.800 I'd love to know what was discussed.

00:37:50.180 We'll find out what was discussed, an examination for discovery, and if any minutes were taken.

00:37:54.200 That's an example of the kind of thing that we're going to find out.

00:37:56.940 Were these professors reprimanded, Rambucana, Pimlott, and Adrienne Joel?

00:38:01.760 I don't know.

00:38:02.620 We'll find out.

00:38:03.720 We get to find out everything.

00:38:05.760 Why did Deborah McClatchy, the president, refuse to not say, I'm giving a double negative.

00:38:13.100 Let me put it more simply.

00:38:14.940 On Steve Payton's TVO, right after this all broke, Payton asked McClatchy repeatedly, did

00:38:21.860 Lindsey Shepard do anything wrong?

00:38:23.600 And she, in terms of showing the Jordan Peterson clip, and McClatchy would not say that she

00:38:31.780 had done nothing wrong, lying she had done something wrong.

00:38:35.300 Well, it was only after, of course, there was massive public outcry that then she tried

00:38:41.500 to sanitize the whole thing with an investigation and then admitted that she had done nothing

00:38:46.240 wrong.

00:38:46.600 But that was not her initial reaction, because my understanding of McClatchy is historically

00:38:51.860 a social justice warrior, too.

00:38:54.680 And I'd like to know the memos between McClatchy's office and others.

00:38:59.900 Yeah.

00:39:00.860 Yeah.

00:39:01.240 I'd like to see if they were disparaging her privately while claiming to be fair to her

00:39:07.860 publicly.

00:39:09.160 I'd like to see if the fix was in privately while they were claiming to have fair procedure

00:39:16.040 publicly.

00:39:17.160 I think that...

00:39:19.000 And just before you go on on that point, what memos were there just before that meeting?

00:39:24.960 Yeah.

00:39:26.440 Yeah.

00:39:27.040 Because, of course, to have any sort of procedural fairness, the meeting has to be meaningful,

00:39:33.800 as in she could say something that would exculpate her.

00:39:37.480 But if the fix was in to begin with, then it wasn't a real investigation.

00:39:42.380 It was a bullying session because there could be no other outcome.

00:39:46.060 This is very interesting.

00:39:47.160 And as we're last to remove ourselves from that particular interrogation, inquisition,

00:39:53.940 we know from watching it, the fix was in.

00:39:57.340 Yeah.

00:39:58.160 We know that.

00:39:59.220 This is fascinating.

00:40:00.380 I look forward to reading this case in detail and following it as it goes every step of the

00:40:04.700 way.

00:40:05.300 I have to tell you, the more I think through the documentary discovery and the oral...

00:40:13.000 I know you can examine different people.

00:40:15.740 Are you suing the university only or are there particular individuals?

00:40:20.360 Oh, no.

00:40:20.780 I'm just trying for it.

00:40:21.740 The university, Rambukana, Humlot, and Joel.

00:40:25.560 And you know what?

00:40:26.720 Just from watching some of those professors, they're so chatty and they're so entitled.

00:40:33.380 I don't think they're going to be able to keep their mouths shut.

00:40:36.360 I think they're going to go off on long rants.

00:40:38.700 I have to say, I believe in my bones that the essential claim that Lindsay's being blackballed

00:40:45.920 by this university's conduct, I believe that in my bones.

00:40:48.480 And I think we'll see what the judge has to say.

00:40:51.400 We'll see what the statement of defense has to say.

00:40:53.260 But I think that this suit has some merits on the face of it.

00:40:56.420 But I am much, much more interested in the revelations that will be elicited by this.

00:41:04.340 It was the revelation of the private interrogation that got this whole story going to begin with.

00:41:09.140 It was a secret recording.

00:41:10.760 And I think now you're going to blow that up tenfold with all this documentary discovery.

00:41:15.320 This might be the most important academic freedom lawsuit in a generation.

00:41:19.280 And I'm not just indulging in hyperbole.

00:41:21.860 You've got the worst case that we can think of in memory with the worst actors.

00:41:27.000 And now you're going to get their internal memos.

00:41:29.340 I think this is going to be a blockbuster.

00:41:31.700 It's fabulous.

00:41:32.620 I just hope it doesn't settle because there's such an important social good in my view.

00:41:37.740 And I gather yours for prosecuting this case.

00:41:40.080 The social justice warriors will no longer be able to believe they can conduct themselves the way they have

00:41:46.020 for the last so many years with impunity that the light will be shown on them and will go after their pocketbooks.

00:41:52.380 Yeah.

00:41:52.660 Well, of course, the decision to settle is Lindsay's alone.

00:41:55.360 But from my few interactions with her and my observations of her, I think she's motivated by the public interest.

00:42:03.740 I don't think she's just out for a buck. 0.75

00:42:05.640 She's never asked for money.

00:42:07.660 She's never set up a GoFundMe page.

00:42:09.820 It doesn't look like she's trying to be an entrepreneur for financial gain.

00:42:14.340 I actually believe in her heart she's motivated by this.

00:42:17.880 It takes someone like that to take on an institution.

00:42:21.340 Howard, I'm delighted that you are the lawyer.

00:42:23.600 I feel like you're uniquely situated for it.

00:42:26.420 This is very interesting.

00:42:28.340 And please keep us posted as this moves through the courts.

00:42:31.600 And obviously, we're not going to have Lindsay on to talk about it in a manner that would in any way jeopardize the legal integrity of the case.

00:42:39.640 So maybe we can talk to you from time to time because we know you'll be very careful about that.

00:42:44.040 Well, Ezra, look, I'm a lawyer, but I'm also clinically active, as you probably know.

00:42:50.120 And it's my mission, too.

00:42:51.920 I have personal interest in stopping the type of nonsense that occurred here.

00:42:58.360 Well, I'm thrilled.

00:42:59.320 I know that.

00:43:00.160 And I'm glad that you confirmed that.

00:43:02.460 And our viewers are supporting you.

00:43:04.580 And we've kept you a long time here.

00:43:06.100 And I know you're very busy.

00:43:07.180 I mean, you're actually you are a working lawyer at Levitt LLP.

00:43:10.620 So thank you for spending the time with us.

00:43:12.520 I can't tell you how excited I am to have you on this file.

00:43:17.520 We talked with John Carpe, who's another public interest lawyer.

00:43:21.000 And there's very few public interest lawyers on our side of the aisle on these things.

00:43:25.120 So on behalf of our viewers, let me say thank you.

00:43:27.580 I feel like Lindsay's in good hands and I feel like she will make an outstanding plaintiff.

00:43:31.940 So good luck to us all.

00:43:32.900 Yes.

00:43:33.640 Thank you.

00:43:34.160 All right.

00:43:34.640 Well, that's very interesting.

00:43:36.100 Thank you.

00:43:36.400 That's Howard Levitt.

00:43:37.560 He's an employment lawyer with Levitt LLP, the author of six legal textbooks.

00:43:43.100 Of course, he's also a columnist for the National Post.

00:43:45.640 And I am thrilled that he is representing Lindsay Shepard in The More I Think About It,

00:43:50.960 the more I think this case will be important for the whole country, not just for Lindsay Shepard.

00:43:57.360 Stay with us.

00:43:58.100 More ahead on The Rebel.

00:44:06.400 Welcome back.

00:44:10.820 Well, one of the things that I've encountered in recent years, and I'm not alone, but I follow

00:44:15.320 it more closely now, is something called de-platforming.

00:44:19.580 It's a made-up word, isn't it?

00:44:21.420 And you can see where it comes from.

00:44:22.840 You have a platform to say something, a stage on a theater, a website, even social media platforms

00:44:30.560 like Twitter or Facebook.

00:44:31.580 Well, the left these days doesn't believe in getting on the platform with you and having

00:44:36.420 a debate.

00:44:37.140 You don't actually see that many rollicking debates between right and left anymore, do

00:44:41.880 you?

00:44:42.480 And so if there's a conservative event, like, for example, when we had a conference at the

00:44:47.400 Monte Cassino Conference Center and Hotel in Toronto, the left didn't show up to debate

00:44:51.940 us.

00:44:52.580 They showed up to threaten the hotel to have them tear up the contract for our event.

00:44:57.020 It's de-platforming, and it's spreading, which brings us to today's story.

00:45:03.260 Last November, a private group of people wanted to rent out space at the Ottawa Public Library

00:45:09.780 to play a movie for a group of people who would get tickets.

00:45:14.100 That's what libraries do. 0.94

00:45:15.340 They're not just for books.

00:45:16.280 They're meeting places, and a contract was signed.

00:45:19.920 Well, the subject matter of the movie was controversial, which is what leftists call anything they want

00:45:26.240 to discredit.

00:45:26.860 Well, that's fine.

00:45:27.540 If you don't want to watch it, don't come.

00:45:29.720 Well, that's not how de-platforming works.

00:45:31.720 Like I say, they didn't come to debate.

00:45:33.940 They came to shut it down, and indeed, they pressured the Ottawa Public Library.

00:45:38.240 And after approving this event and signing a contract, they ripped it up, banning the movie

00:45:46.100 from being screened.

00:45:47.360 Well, wouldn't you know it?

00:45:48.280 So, Canada's sole civil liberties lawyer, or maybe with one or two exceptions, our friend

00:45:54.180 John Carpe in the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom, is here to set that right.

00:45:59.540 John, great to see you.

00:46:00.320 Welcome to being here in our studio.

00:46:01.840 It's nice to have you here in Toronto.

00:46:03.200 Good to see you.

00:46:03.880 Did I properly outline the facts of the movie?

00:46:07.300 And I want to get the name of the documentary right.

00:46:08.980 It's called Killing Europe, which is a spicy title.

00:46:12.700 Tell me a little bit about the movie and this movie event at the Ottawa Public Library.

00:46:16.040 So, Killing Europe was done by a Danish guy who emigrated to the United States, and 15 1.00

00:46:22.620 years later, he came back, and he found Denmark was very transformed.

00:46:26.940 They had big concrete barriers in the downtown to stop any driving terrorism attacks where

00:46:34.200 the truck goes along the streets or kills people.

00:46:37.180 And he interviews a lot of people about the big wave of immigrants in 2015.

00:46:43.000 And his documentary suggests that, you know, this is not all good for Europe to have had

00:46:50.540 this large wave of young single men, and talks about the impact of immigration on Europe,

00:46:58.040 talks about the effect, looks at, for example, rape statistics in Norway and Sweden, which have

00:47:04.460 just skyrocketed.

00:47:05.820 And so, it's a controversial film.

00:47:10.120 I've seen the whole thing myself.

00:47:11.440 I think it certainly articulates a perspective.

00:47:14.880 But the Ottawa Library, just for political pressure reasons, they signed the contract and they

00:47:22.180 canceled the viewing.

00:47:23.080 Yeah.

00:47:23.360 On the screen right now, we're showing some excerpts from that film.

00:47:26.380 We've talked to those people.

00:47:27.480 Mona Walters, she's a refugee, really. 0.69

00:47:30.080 I mean, she came from a Muslim country to Sweden, and she left Islam as being under attack.

00:47:37.200 Lars Hedegaard there, another free speech.

00:47:38.760 So, these are people, they have a strong political point of view.

00:47:42.460 None of them are criminals.

00:47:43.500 None of them foment violence.

00:47:44.800 None of them call for violence.

00:47:46.320 They're just having a debate about open borders, Islam, immigration.

00:47:51.260 I mean, I've personally met some of those folks, and they're very pleasant, actually.

00:47:55.240 In fact, many of them have to be in hiding because they're being bullied.

00:47:58.680 What excuse did the library give for shutting down this film?

00:48:04.660 I mean, you can disagree with the film, but is the new rule that only films the library

00:48:08.900 agrees with, they'll show?

00:48:10.440 Well, that seems to be the case.

00:48:11.980 The pretext was a violation of the Ontario Human Rights Code by virtue of this movie.

00:48:17.660 But the Human Rights Code, did they give a particular what this movie broke this rule?

00:48:24.660 No.

00:48:24.760 Like, that just, that sounds made up.

00:48:26.200 No, it's a platitude.

00:48:27.980 It's like, you know, well, you know, the rebel is against the Ontario Human Rights Code.

00:48:32.680 I mean, it's a platitude designed to intimidate.

00:48:36.160 It was a local lawyer, left-wing activist, Richard Warman, who got his, you know, social

00:48:43.060 media campaign.

00:48:44.180 And people were writing to the mayor of Ottawa and city councillors.

00:48:48.060 And then pressure was put on the, and they were writing to the library staff and people

00:48:53.420 in charge of the library.

00:48:54.280 And so they caved to political pressure, that this was a hateful extremist, you know, the

00:48:58.840 usual rhetoric.

00:49:00.300 But there's nothing in the movie that would fall afoul of the Canada Human Rights Act or

00:49:07.040 the Criminal Code or even the human rights legislation.

00:49:10.160 There's nothing in it.

00:49:10.940 It's a slogan.

00:49:11.900 Other than just the bold statement, this is against the law, was there anything specific

00:49:17.840 they cited?

00:49:19.060 Did they say this word or this, they just said, we've heard this or that?

00:49:23.280 No, and there's no reference to the movie because you would be hard pressed.

00:49:26.760 If you saw the movie, you would see it consists of, you know, interviews and video photos.

00:49:31.760 She's a very courageous woman.

00:49:34.520 And, you know, I mean, frankly, let me just say, she's a woman of color, an immigrant who

00:49:40.020 was born a Muslim.

00:49:41.480 That's ticking a lot of politically correct boxes.

00:49:43.720 Frankly, I thought she was very passionate and very thoughtful.

00:49:46.620 Let the woman be heard. 1.00

00:49:49.480 How did they communicate to the folks who booked the venue?

00:49:53.560 How did they communicate?

00:49:54.760 Was it a phone call or an email or a letter?

00:49:56.600 How did they cancel it?

00:49:58.300 The organizer was Madeline Weld, who's based in Ottawa.

00:50:02.560 And she was the go-between person.

00:50:05.240 It was booked in her name.

00:50:07.080 And so they told Madeline, first they said, you have to get security and pay for security.

00:50:11.780 And did she say yes to that?

00:50:13.220 She said yes to that, which is pretty generous.

00:50:15.460 Yeah.

00:50:15.620 Because really, why should she have to do it?

00:50:19.960 That's not an issue in this court case.

00:50:21.860 That's an issue in some other court cases we're doing.

00:50:23.980 But so Madeline was then told, first she was told to get security, and then she was just

00:50:29.640 told, no, it's being canceled.

00:50:31.520 The thing, too, is this is not a film that's being forced on anybody by being in the main

00:50:36.680 entrance of the library.

00:50:38.020 This is a film that would be like a private event with an event break or whatever and

00:50:42.500 sign it up.

00:50:43.080 So tickets were for sale, right?

00:50:44.560 Tickets were for sale.

00:50:45.380 I don't know the price, but probably five or ten bucks or $15.

00:50:48.020 So no one is seeing this that doesn't say, yes, I want to see it, and here's $5 that

00:50:53.760 proves I want to see it.

00:50:54.820 And the other great thing they had was that the producer of the movie himself was present,

00:50:59.720 and he would have been there for Q&A after the movie.

00:51:02.860 That's like a film festival.

00:51:03.500 You know, the best film festivals, and I've had the chance to go to a few, they take questions.

00:51:08.680 They love a rambunctious Q&A.

00:51:11.180 That's what makes it more interesting.

00:51:12.900 If someone had an objective, did anyone, well, I guess the event didn't happen, did

00:51:16.580 anyone that you know of, did any of the critics say, I'm going to come, I want to come and

00:51:21.100 challenge it?

00:51:21.480 Because that would be interesting.

00:51:23.040 I have no idea who's...

00:51:23.960 We have no idea because it was canceled.

00:51:25.520 All right.

00:51:25.860 So the JCCF, the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms, in my mind, the leading civil liberties

00:51:29.920 law firm in this country.

00:51:31.560 You defend free speech.

00:51:33.820 That's what we're doing here today.

00:51:34.920 So you have filed a claim on behalf of...

00:51:39.600 Madeleine Weld.

00:51:39.760 Madeleine Weld and Valerie Thomas, who was another organizer.

00:51:43.500 So you're suing the Ottawa Public Library.

00:51:46.120 Is that correct?

00:51:46.620 Yeah.

00:51:47.220 And we're seeking a court declaration.

00:51:48.800 We're not after them for money.

00:51:50.100 Right.

00:51:50.620 Our court cases are always, we want to get the court to uphold the rights.

00:51:54.120 And we're saying it was contrary to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

00:51:57.740 Right.

00:51:57.960 Because they're a government-owned public building.

00:52:00.220 Absolutely.

00:52:00.620 And what's interesting about the charter is the charter free expression right is not only

00:52:06.080 your right and my right and everybody else's right to speak, it's also a right to hear

00:52:10.740 and listen.

00:52:11.540 Yeah.

00:52:11.840 And we're going to argue that in this case.

00:52:13.220 It's not just the right of Madeleine Weld to speak by showing this movie or the producer

00:52:22.780 of the movie, the Danish producer.

00:52:23.980 But it's the right of people to see and hear and listen is part of the free expression rights.

00:52:29.180 So we're saying this violates the charter.

00:52:30.960 It's unreasonable.

00:52:31.420 If there are people who wanted to pay five bucks, why should they not be able to hear

00:52:35.700 something they want to hear, even if they want to hear it, because they disagree with

00:52:39.660 it or they want to know what the other side thinks.

00:52:41.660 And their rights are denied.

00:52:43.180 Yeah.

00:52:43.460 And their right to question the producer and to listen to what he had to say.

00:52:47.920 Isn't that it?

00:52:48.420 Do we have any case law in Canada that says there is a right to listen?

00:52:53.260 Absolutely.

00:52:53.820 Oh, we do.

00:52:54.280 And we're arguing it in this case.

00:52:55.160 Oh, well, you know, I'm so glad to hear it.

00:52:56.720 We need more people to do this.

00:52:58.420 So you've served the lawsuit on the library or you're about to do that?

00:53:01.640 Yeah.

00:53:02.080 And obviously they haven't had a chance to reply yet.

00:53:04.720 No response yet.

00:53:05.320 Now, they'll have government resources at their disposal.

00:53:08.440 Oh, yeah.

00:53:08.780 Probably.

00:53:09.140 Yeah.

00:53:09.600 I mean, they're a public thing.

00:53:11.280 Do you think that...

00:53:12.640 Governments are not shy about spending taxpayers' money on court cases, whether their case has

00:53:18.080 any merit or not.

00:53:18.980 I mean, the University of Calgary has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know,

00:53:22.860 fighting for its right to censor speech on campus.

00:53:25.160 University of Alberta, the same thing.

00:53:26.860 Yeah.

00:53:27.080 Deep pockets.

00:53:28.860 Now, libraries, of all places, have a reputation of free speech.

00:53:32.720 I mean, I'm a controversial fellow in some quarters, but I was invited by the Toronto Librarians

00:53:38.860 Association.

00:53:39.940 Like, oh, I mean, that's good.

00:53:41.640 To invite a right-wing guy like me to speak to their library convention, that's true.

00:53:46.300 And they wanted me to talk about freedom of speech.

00:53:48.140 And I did.

00:53:49.400 And this was a few years ago, and I was well-received.

00:53:51.880 And librarians are sort of the keeper of free speech in a way, because there are books in

00:53:58.140 the library that upset anybody or everybody.

00:54:01.260 And you've got to be able to say, look, if you don't like that book, don't read it.

00:54:04.300 And maybe we're going to put some things on the top shelf so kids don't see it.

00:54:07.620 And maybe there's some things that we might even have in a special collection.

00:54:10.460 But I don't think even Mein Kampf should be banned.

00:54:13.820 I'm a Jew, and I obviously don't like Nazism, but surely it's a historical work that we ought 1.00

00:54:18.500 to be able to read and learn from.

00:54:19.600 So I think librarians historically have been keepers of freedom.

00:54:23.200 To have librarians be censors is so contrary to their nature.

00:54:28.140 And that's why we're taking on the case.

00:54:29.560 Yeah.

00:54:29.800 Because, you know, you could see this movie, Killing Europe.

00:54:32.400 You could see it online.

00:54:33.480 Yeah.

00:54:33.740 But that's not the point.

00:54:34.680 The point is that the public authorities, because it's a government body, if it was a purely

00:54:38.840 private entity, we would not be suing it.

00:54:41.100 If you're a private entity, you do whatever you want.

00:54:43.100 But this is a government body.

00:54:44.900 And we're saying you cannot cave to political correctness and start censoring viewpoints

00:54:51.460 that are controversial.

00:54:53.060 Yeah.

00:54:53.620 Well, I tell you, we support you morally.

00:54:57.000 You remain our favorite activist.

00:54:59.780 You're actually getting things done.

00:55:01.420 I know you have staff lawyers, so you're not spending money hiring expensive lawyers to

00:55:06.640 come in and help.

00:55:07.320 But I know you have costs.

00:55:08.840 And I asked you before we turn the cameras on if we could try and scare together a little

00:55:12.900 bit of dough.

00:55:13.480 I'm going to put in $50 myself, just as a symbolic, because I know even just to file

00:55:18.220 the case would be a few hundred bucks.

00:55:20.780 I'm going to see if we can put together $2,000 just to assist, because I know that you aren't

00:55:26.880 getting government funding.

00:55:28.500 No.

00:55:28.740 That's right.

00:55:29.300 Because you're taking on the government every time.

00:55:31.700 We've set up a small website for this.

00:55:34.420 It's called nolibraryban.com.

00:55:37.900 And if you want to join me, I'm putting in $50.

00:55:40.160 If you want to put in $50, if you can only afford $5, that's fine.

00:55:43.460 And why don't we run this for a week and see what we can do, and then we'll send you the

00:55:47.520 dough.

00:55:47.700 Thank you.

00:55:48.140 Well, thank you, John.

00:55:49.340 And you do such good work on free speech.

00:55:52.500 By the way, give me an update on your Man of the Year Award before we go.

00:55:57.200 So, George Jonas, a personal friend, somebody whom I admired.

00:56:01.220 He was a national post-columnist, author of many books.

00:56:04.760 Refugee from communist Hungary.

00:56:07.400 Fled the country after the unsuccessful 1956 uprising.

00:56:11.860 Great Canadian, passed away in 2016.

00:56:16.280 And with the blessing of Maya Jonas, his wife, we have set up the George Jonas Freedom Award.

00:56:25.080 And it's going to be an annual event.

00:56:26.920 It's being held June 15th on his birthday.

00:56:30.200 Oh, great.

00:56:30.900 On George Jonas' birthday.

00:56:31.880 Oh, great.

00:56:32.560 Yeah.

00:56:33.040 And the first recipient is going to be Mark Stein.

00:56:37.200 Wow, there you go.

00:56:38.060 A perfect friend.

00:56:38.560 Another great Canadian.

00:56:39.240 Great advocate for freedom.

00:56:40.720 He himself has, of course, been subject to censorship for what he wrote.

00:56:43.940 Human Rights Commission.

00:56:44.900 So, yeah.

00:56:45.420 Well, that's great.

00:56:46.180 And I wish you good luck at that.

00:56:47.680 And that's a fundraiser for you, is it?

00:56:49.320 I hope so.

00:56:49.880 Actually, no.

00:56:51.020 It's sort of a break-even thing.

00:56:51.740 We're deliberately doing it as a break-even.

00:56:53.300 We've kept the ticket prices down so that the primary purpose is to honor George Jonas.

00:56:57.880 Well, that's nice.

00:56:58.560 Yeah.

00:56:58.660 And so, yeah, we're going to break-even on the dinner.

00:57:00.580 It's not a fundraiser.

00:57:01.880 Okay.

00:57:02.160 Are there still tickets left?

00:57:03.700 No.

00:57:04.180 No.

00:57:04.520 Sold out.

00:57:04.820 Sorry.

00:57:05.060 Okay.

00:57:05.400 No, well, I'm glad to hear it.

00:57:06.660 I'm glad to hear that event's sold out.

00:57:08.240 Well, congratulations to you.

00:57:09.620 Thank you.

00:57:09.920 The JCCF has really grown and is really doing exciting things.

00:57:13.420 I won't get into other cases now, but whenever you have a case, let us know about it, if

00:57:17.120 it's you or one of your litigation directors.

00:57:19.160 Will do.

00:57:19.380 And folks, please go to nolibraryban.com.

00:57:23.440 I think it's important that libraries become places of open dialogue, not censorship.

00:57:27.240 Last word to you, John.

00:57:28.120 Were you going to say one more thing there, I thought?

00:57:30.260 No.

00:57:30.460 I thought I heard you inhale about to say something.

00:57:32.460 No.

00:57:32.800 You're all done.

00:57:33.400 All right, folks.

00:57:35.420 Stay with us.

00:57:36.120 Just more Head on the Ramble.

00:57:36.880 Hey, welcome back.

00:57:48.660 On my interview yesterday with David Horowitz, Derebura writes,

00:57:51.220 Yeah, me too.

00:58:06.060 You know, I apologize again, the Skype connection was a little scratchy, but I thought, you know,

00:58:10.280 we got to do it anyways, because even though it was a little bit scratchy, I wanted to show

00:58:14.180 you what he had to say.

00:58:16.020 Alan writes, Any chance of making David Horowitz a regular?

00:58:20.000 Conservatives need to hear him.

00:58:21.340 Well, I'd love to.

00:58:22.180 I sense that he's, first of all, super busy with the Horowitz Freedom Center.

00:58:26.320 They've got a ton of stuff going on.

00:58:27.960 And I don't know.

00:58:28.620 I mean, I'd like to.

00:58:29.440 I don't want to be presumptuous.

00:58:30.680 I think he's a busy guy.

00:58:32.640 And maybe if he did something, he would do something through his own institution.

00:58:37.480 But I think that's a great idea. 1.00

00:58:41.100 Jerry writes, Get rid of that jerk Trudeau. 1.00

00:58:44.140 What a jackass. 1.00

00:58:45.560 Great ending of the interview. 1.00

00:58:49.300 Yeah, fair enough.

00:58:50.840 Bob and Iris write, I have to tell you, Ezra, that every time your show comes on and our

00:58:55.300 male German shepherd hears your voice, he starts barking and demanding cookies.

00:59:00.840 And here we have a picture.

00:59:03.580 You know what?

00:59:05.360 I believe that.

00:59:08.440 And I think that's an interesting Pavlovian response, if you know what I mean.

00:59:13.580 And the funny thing is, whenever the show comes on, I sort of crave cookies, too.

00:59:19.060 So I think I've got a connection.

00:59:22.400 The German shepherd.

00:59:23.060 I don't know.

00:59:23.380 I'm joking around.

00:59:24.020 I know you are, too.

00:59:24.700 Thanks for that fun letter and picture.

00:59:27.000 Well, folks, that's the show for today.

00:59:28.540 I hope you enjoyed it.

00:59:29.500 We'll have some big news for you tomorrow.

00:59:31.880 Until then, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, good night and keep

00:59:36.720 fighting for freedom.

00:59:43.580 We'll be right back.

Rebel News Podcast - June 15, 2018

Chrystia Freeland wins world’s best diplomat award (PLUS Lindsay Shepherd sues Laurier U)

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Transcript