Rebel News Podcast - Climate skeptics are welcome in Trump's America： Here's what they talk about (GUEST： Tom Harris)

00:00:00.000 Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my show, The Gun Show.

00:00:05.980 My guest tonight is Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition.

00:00:11.440 He joined me to talk about his Washington, D.C. Climate Change Conference.

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00:01:16.540 Well, friends, I guess it's time to blow through your life savings and give up on that diet you've been meaning to start.

00:01:27.660 Live a little, because according to environmentalists, we have only 18 months to save the Earth.

00:01:33.720 My guest tonight debunks that claim and so much more.

00:01:38.160 I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:01:40.980 You know, Trump's America really is a fossil-fueled utopia, isn't it?

00:02:02.540 The Americans are drilling, pumping, exporting, and building pipelines all over the place. 0.97

00:02:07.200 It's a boom in the oil and gas sector in America, while here in Canada we are nearing nearly one decade of study and examination

00:02:15.100 just to get the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Project built, if it ever gets built.

00:02:22.180 But there's another great thing happening in Trump's America around the issue of fossil fuels and the effect they have on the environment.

00:02:29.620 And that great thing is discussion.

00:02:32.160 Here in Canada, all the fancy people and our moral and intellectual superiors at the state broadcaster love to remind us all

00:02:40.280 that the science is settled.

00:02:42.100 The need for scientific examination of any theory related to human-induced global warming is no more.

00:02:48.660 We should all just shut up and fork over our climate tithing to save us all from burning on a boiling globe.

00:02:56.200 But it's not so in Trump's America.

00:02:58.600 Scientists are able to speak out and express their disagreement on the theory of global warming.

00:03:05.020 They are able to question and argue and debate.

00:03:09.200 They are even able to be keynote speakers at quote-unquote denier conferences held in Washington, D.C.

00:03:16.640 in Trump's hotel of all places.

00:03:18.700 Which brings me to my guest tonight.

00:03:20.760 Joining me tonight in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon from his home in Ottawa

00:03:25.860 is Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition.

00:03:30.020 And he is fresh off the recent Heartland Institute's 13th Annual International Conference on Climate Change.

00:03:50.760 Joining me now is Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition from Ottawa.

00:04:02.060 But Tom is recently back from D.C.

00:04:05.940 Tom, thanks for joining me.

00:04:07.660 Why don't you tell us all why you were in D.C.

00:04:10.020 at, of all places, the Trump International Hotel.

00:04:13.340 Yeah, I mean, my wife was taking pictures for the first half hour just in our room. 1.00

00:04:19.900 I mean, it was pretty incredible.

00:04:21.380 And it was a great place to go.

00:04:23.160 And believe it or not, it was less expensive than the other places they looked at.

00:04:27.260 So we held a conference at the Trump Hotel.

00:04:29.740 The Heartland Institute were the hosts.

00:04:31.780 And we presented awards to various people.

00:04:34.100 Dr. Tim Ball got an award.

00:04:35.580 And I quoted a couple of times from Winston Churchill when I presented the award to him.

00:04:40.840 He got the Lifetime Achievement in Climate Science Award.

00:04:45.260 And I basically I said this.

00:04:47.000 I said, you have enemies?

00:04:48.160 Good.

00:04:48.460 That means you stood up for something sometime in your life.

00:04:51.480 And of course, Dr. Ball is a very brave person.

00:04:54.300 I mean, he's been in horrible court cases.

00:04:56.780 He's been before government hearings, thousands of presentations.

00:05:00.500 So it was just really wonderful to give him the award.

00:05:04.300 And he had a nice presentation by video conference as well, which I think was one of the best talks there.

00:05:10.520 So it was quite an exciting meeting.

00:05:12.520 It was called the International Climate Change Conference 13 or 13th International Climate.

00:05:20.220 You know, it's 13th anyways.

00:05:22.820 And they had 300 people.

00:05:24.760 They sold out.

00:05:25.720 And we had economists and climate scientists and engineers and policy experts showing us that the climate scare is, first of all,

00:05:33.500 not based on sound science.

00:05:35.360 But what it is driving, actually, and this is an interesting thing that we're hearing more and more,

00:05:40.380 it's driving an attempt to push the world to global government and, in particular, world socialism.

00:05:46.700 Because if you think about it, if you control carbon dioxide, and remember, 80% of the world's energy is fossil fuels.

00:05:54.160 If you control the main effluent from that, which is carbon dioxide, then you control the world's energy.

00:06:00.780 And if you control the world's energy, you essentially control the world.

00:06:05.040 And, you know, a good example of that was a few winters ago when Russia turned off the gas to the Ukraine.

00:06:10.820 You know, it really is a massive tool.

00:06:14.660 And one of the real strengths of the United States now is going to be that they are going to become, you know,

00:06:19.840 more and more of an exporter of oil because of the shale revolution.

00:06:24.000 So this is going to change world politics.

00:06:26.020 They won't have to be with their military in so many places to protect the oil lines.

00:06:30.660 So there's a lot of changes going on.

00:06:33.520 We've there was also an open letter that was announced at the conference, and I should read you a little bit of it.

00:06:38.580 It was to President Trump, authored by a number of people, and they asked President Trump to do two things.

00:06:45.860 First of all, they asked him to get going on this commission on climate security proposed by national security scientist Dr. Will Happer.

00:06:54.300 He's a former Princeton physics professor, and we really have to get going with that.

00:06:58.800 So that's a really important thing.

00:07:00.520 The other thing, and they're trying to really get this meme into the public mind, and that is climate delusion.

00:07:07.240 It says, second, we ask that you frequently tweet about the climate delusion to break through the media blackout

00:07:14.520 that has kept much of the public from learning about the climate realist position.

00:07:18.880 So we're asking President Trump to use his influence to get out this idea that climate delusion is really influencing the public,

00:07:26.540 and we want people to understand it is a delusion because it's not based on real data.

00:07:32.040 You know, since 1880, we've seen a one degree, slightly more than one degree temperature rise, which is certainly not dangerous.

00:07:39.580 So the whole climate scare is based on these computer models.

00:07:43.040 And during the conference, various scientists showed us how badly these models are working.

00:07:47.880 Depending on what data you compare it with, it's either double or triple the, you know,

00:07:52.640 the amount of warming that's being forecast is double or triple what's really happening.

00:07:57.860 So we also heard about the benefits of fossil fuels and the fact that if we want to go back to the 1800s with our, you know, level of prosperity,

00:08:07.340 then, yeah, get rid of fossil fuels.

00:08:09.260 That's the way to do it.

00:08:12.060 How was your conference received in the mainstream media?

00:08:16.400 Because I imagine they were attacking your conference as a bunch of anti-science deniers.

00:08:21.540 But I just pulled up the speakers list on my computer as you were talking there.

00:08:27.180 And you have climate scientists from MIT.

00:08:31.100 You have someone from the American Association of State Climatologists.

00:08:36.740 You have Timothy Ball, amazing, like you said, from the University of Winnipeg.

00:08:41.320 I mean, you really have some pretty deep thinkers in the field of actual scientific research and study.

00:08:50.260 And yet, I'm sure a lot of the criticism levied at you is coming from the likes of former waitresses. 1.00

00:08:58.480 Yeah.

00:08:59.900 And, of course, the liberal controlled media.

00:09:03.340 You know, the bottom line is these are scientists from all over the world who have many peer-reviewed published papers.

00:09:08.820 Neer Shaviv, for example, from Israel, was speaking about how the sun is undoubtedly a very heavy influencer on climate.

00:09:16.580 And Dr. Ball points out that that's a real problem because by the middle of this century,

00:09:21.440 we're going to be getting to a time when the sun is in what's called a grand solar minimum.

00:09:26.620 And if it's like previous grand solar minimums, we're going to see the coldest conditions in centuries.

00:09:32.540 And yet the Canadian government is planning for warming.

00:09:35.260 You know, the point that really is crazy is if it warms a little bit, then Canada can simply use the farming practices that are used in Arkansas.

00:09:44.540 But if it cools, we lose our crops because there's nobody farming north of us.

00:09:49.520 So this cooling threat, and, you know, Professor Abdus Sametab from the Polkovo Observatory near St. Petersburg in Russia, he's another.

00:09:57.300 And there are many of them that are now saying that the whole climate debate is upside down.

00:10:01.580 First of all, it's more likely to be cooling than warming.

00:10:05.200 And secondly, we should be helping people adapt to climate change.

00:10:09.700 And here's the real scandal.

00:10:11.180 And this is what should really upset social justice warriors.

00:10:14.000 I think we spoke about this last time, is that 95 percent of the billion dollars a day that goes to climate finance is going to try to stop climate change.

00:10:23.860 There's only one twentieth of it, one, you know, five percent that is going to help real people now.

00:10:29.260 And if this cooling is coming, people are going to need help.

00:10:33.240 There's all sorts of things we can do to help them.

00:10:35.620 But stopping climate change?

00:10:37.480 No, that's not one of them.

00:10:39.720 Now, I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the hypocrisy of the climate change movement.

00:10:45.600 It's always a theme when I do interviews with the denier side. 0.71

00:10:49.800 I wanted to, you know, I'm always apprehensive of talking about Greta Thunberg because she is a child and I think a mentally ill child being exploited by the adults around her.

00:11:01.060 But she's she's actually given up or so she says airline travel to fight climate change.

00:11:07.740 And I guess good for her.

00:11:08.700 She's putting her money where her mouth is. 1.00

00:11:10.400 But she's going to travel to North America and I guess the Americas in general because she's going to the climate change conference in in Chile later on in the year.

00:11:24.740 But she's traveling in a state of the art sailboat and she claims this is low carbon.

00:11:30.100 But the boat itself is aluminum and is just rife with technology that you need fossil fuels to extract.

00:11:39.140 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:40.500 I mean, where do they think they get aluminum?

00:11:42.220 I mean, it's, you know, hugely energy dependent.

00:11:45.720 And that's, of course, why it's very valuable to recycle aluminum, because it does take so much energy to mine it.

00:11:51.880 And we're not running those steam shovels and other kinds of, you know, power equipment.

00:11:55.920 We're not running them with wind and solar power.

00:11:58.200 We're using fossil fuels.

00:11:59.920 And, of course, the actual manufacture of aluminum itself takes huge amounts of energy and it's got to be reliable, dependable energy, something like hydro, for example.

00:12:08.660 Again, wind and solar just doesn't cut it.

00:12:11.880 And, you know, one of the things that that she doesn't seem to understand is that in many ways, wind and solar are not environmentally friendly.

00:12:20.480 In fact, it's interesting.

00:12:21.560 Dr. Elizabeth Anderson gave a talk recently at Carleton, two talks, one on solar and one on wind, on the real environmental costs of these things.

00:12:31.000 And, you know, they mine, for example, for the rare earths to go into the supermagnets in wind turbines.

00:12:36.280 They do that in China under terrible environmental conditions.

00:12:40.340 In fact, you could say, and that's not even counting the bird deaths and the bat deaths.

00:12:45.220 Bats are even more threatened than birds.

00:12:47.620 You could say wind, in many ways, is the most dirty power on the planet.

00:12:52.020 OK.

00:12:52.260 And similarly with solar, you know, she was showing that the manufacture of solar plants, solar cells, photovoltaics in China is done in an extremely dirty way.

00:13:04.080 In fact, interestingly, their green city, in which they generate a lot of these energy sources, is one of the most polluted cities in the world.

00:13:12.760 OK.

00:13:13.300 And so I encourage people to look into that more deeply because wind and solar, boy, you know, they have a lot of problems.

00:13:20.040 The bat kill problem is something people don't know much about.

00:13:22.980 They should, though, because there are more bats being killed than birds.

00:13:26.060 And sadly, bats can be killed just by passing near a turbine blade, because if they pass into a region of very low pressure, there's a sack in their head that bursts and they die.

00:13:37.460 So, and, you know, bats typically eat about a thousand mosquitoes in a night.

00:13:41.900 So, yeah, we don't want to get rid of bats, that's for sure.

00:13:44.520 But it's sad when I see a child really influenced like that, because, you know, one of the greatest threats to survival in the world today is a pessimistic anticipation of the future.

00:13:57.460 I mean, this is something that a lot of psychologists have looked at, and they basically say what we really need is a positive worldview for where humanity is going as a species.

00:14:07.280 And so it's very sad to see when children have such a negative worldview.

00:14:11.060 That's one of the reasons that I'm so enthusiastic about the space program.

00:14:14.960 Not only was I an aerospace engineer, but it's a positive alternative future where we can do new things and move forward as a species.

00:14:23.120 And that's the kind of thing I wish children would focus on.

00:14:25.520 And that's one of the reasons that I write in that field as well.

00:14:29.340 Speaking of a pessimistic anticipation of the future, what a great way to put it.

00:14:35.200 I've got some terrible news for you, Tom.

00:14:38.600 We're all going to die in 18 months and not 12 years, like they keep promising us.

00:14:44.620 A headline from the BBC, climate change, 12 years to save the planet, make that 18 months.

00:14:50.980 These people are like a doomsday cult.

00:14:52.960 They're just anticipating the comet to come, and they're going to, you know, just jump on the comet and go somewhere else.

00:14:59.320 It's really frightening to see how they, it's, like you say, there's a hopelessness for the future that I think is really bad to instill in an entire generation of people.

00:15:14.660 But I think they just need the urgency so that they can justify how much they want to tax me.

00:15:20.860 Well, also, I think it's that media, you know, mainstream media thrive on negative news.

00:15:26.600 And in particular, on this issue, I was actually speaking to an editor of a leading Eastern Canadian newspaper.

00:15:32.020 I won't say who, because it's somewhat confidence.

00:15:35.260 I asked him, you know, why don't you show both sides of the climate debate?

00:15:39.740 He said, oh, we agree with David Suzuki.

00:15:41.640 I said, yes, but do you have anybody on staff who has even a Bachelor of Science so that you could actually judge as to who is more likely right?

00:15:49.700 And he said, well, no.

00:15:51.320 And so then I said, well, then why do you do it?

00:15:54.060 He said, well, our advertisers wouldn't like it.

00:15:58.540 So I thought about it.

00:15:59.740 Yes, that's true.

00:16:00.800 Negative news sells.

00:16:02.080 A big headline that says, you know, global temperature has risen a trivial amount in the last, well, since the beginning of the 20th century, it's virtually nothing.

00:16:10.120 And even since 1880, we're talking about one degree, which has been a beneficial thing.

00:16:15.640 That kind of headline doesn't sell press.

00:16:17.860 So if you're going for high circulation numbers, yes, catastrophe sells.

00:16:22.320 But there's another factor, Sheila.

00:16:24.060 Many of the sponsors in newspapers are using the climate scare to generate their sales.

00:16:30.420 OK, they're saying buy our product and we're reducing greenhouse gases.

00:16:33.620 We're going to save the world.

00:16:34.720 Now, if you spend $12,000 on a newspaper ad, the last thing you want is Tim Patterson or Tim Ball or Ian Clark writing an op-ed on the other side saying you can't stop climate change.

00:16:47.840 So I thought about it.

00:16:49.220 Yeah, it's largely financially driven when it comes to the media.

00:16:52.760 It's partly because they're left wing and it's part of their laundry list of ideals to support this.

00:16:58.100 But I think it's also largely financial.

00:17:02.020 You know, I did an investigation into the CBC based on a complaint that I had received from a viewer.

00:17:08.480 They had written to the CBC's ombudsman complaining about the coverage.

00:17:14.620 This it was a story, sort of an inconsequential story, I guess.

00:17:17.840 It was about how these islands off the East Coast are disappearing and it's erosion.

00:17:25.520 Erosion is doing it.

00:17:26.760 Ocean current is doing it.

00:17:28.520 But somehow the CBC and their guest blamed it on climate change.

00:17:33.780 And the viewer had actually written to the ombudsman saying this is unscientific kookery.

00:17:38.640 And you could have at least presented not even just the anti-climate change side of the debate, but just someone with the common sense to say ocean currents erode things.

00:17:51.180 That's what they've always done.

00:17:53.040 And the CBC ombudsman wrote him back saying it is our policy not to provide balance on issues of climate change because the scientific consensus says the science is settled.

00:18:06.340 Which is actually an unscientific phrase in and of itself.

00:18:10.300 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:11.160 And, you know, back in the year 2000, I contested the CBC.

00:18:15.300 I wrote to the president and I said, you know, show us that there is this consensus of scientists who agree that we have a climate crisis.

00:18:22.680 And he assigned the letter actually to his ombudsman to answer.

00:18:26.800 At first, they didn't answer.

00:18:28.080 I wrote again.

00:18:28.740 And, of course, it took a little pressure.

00:18:30.620 But he finally, the ombudsman, David Bazet, actually, he's passed away.

00:18:34.140 But he's finally sent me 10 pages of answer in which he showed there was a consensus in the media that there was a consensus in the climate change community.

00:18:46.380 He didn't actually interview a single scientist or a single scientific organization in supporting this contention.

00:18:52.980 So, in fact, it was the media where there was a consensus.

00:18:57.200 But there was no consensus.

00:18:58.780 Proved it.

00:18:59.240 And, you know, it's interesting, none of these polls, this famous 97 percent thing, is nonsense because they either don't ask the right question or they don't ask the right people.

00:19:10.480 They'll ask in these polls, they'll ask, do you think climate change is real?

00:19:13.940 Do you think humans contribute to climate change?

00:19:16.000 Well, yeah, of course we do.

00:19:17.160 But that's not the question.

00:19:18.320 The question is, are we causing climate change so dangerous it's worth billions of dollars a day to try to stop?

00:19:25.600 They don't ask scientists that question, and the reason they don't is because scientists would say, I don't know, or they would say probably not.

00:19:34.600 Very few of them would say yes, because that billion dollars a day could go to so many other important causes.

00:19:40.340 And the other thing is they're often not asking the right people.

00:19:43.380 They have to ask people who don't work for government, because, of course, those people are going to say what they're told to say, have to ask independent scientists who study the causes of climate change.

00:19:53.240 You know, not bark beetle experts who study what climate change does.

00:19:57.480 We want to know from the people who study the causes.

00:20:00.300 And I think, Sheila, that if they did that, they would find there was kind of a bell curve where most scientists would say, I don't know if some of the evidence says we are, some we aren't.

00:20:09.620 I think some scientists would say definitely not, like Tim Ball.

00:20:13.180 And then you'd have Jim Hansen and others saying definitely yes.

00:20:16.060 But I think the vast majority of them would say, wow, this is a really immature field.

00:20:21.100 It's a very new field.

00:20:22.520 I mean, things like clouds, for example, we don't understand.

00:20:25.820 And yet clouds have 10 times the influence of all human activities combined.

00:20:30.220 So until we understand natural climate change, how can we understand how much humans are contributing?

00:20:36.280 And that's the point Dr. Ball makes all the time, is our understanding of natural climate change is really bad for one simple, well, a number of reasons.

00:20:45.980 We don't have a theory of climate.

00:20:47.680 So theoretically, that's one of the reasons.

00:20:50.120 The other reason is there's very, very little data.

00:20:53.080 Did you realize that in the whole of northern Canada, going into the global historical climatological network, there is one data station?

00:21:01.440 And that happens to be in a place called Eureka, which is a refugia. 1.00

00:21:06.640 It's a warm area.

00:21:08.480 So we don't have data.

00:21:09.960 There's huge areas of the Earth across the oceans in Africa, Antarctica.

00:21:14.760 I mean, you know, most of the world is ocean.

00:21:17.080 We don't have sensors to give us proper surface readings.

00:21:20.600 So until and so that's the first thing we need to do.

00:21:22.900 If we're really serious about this, we need to get data to best understand what's really going on.

00:21:29.660 And in fact, I'll read you a little quote here from the Tim Ball speech that I gave, because Dr. Ball, as I say, he went back to university to study why weather forecasting was so bad.

00:21:41.860 It led him to produce a long-term record to accommodate some of the short and medium-term cycles.

00:21:47.820 You see, Tim is a fan of Sherlock Holmes' warning.

00:21:50.760 And here it is.

00:21:51.760 It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data.

00:21:55.400 But insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts.

00:22:01.860 So Tim is a fan of Sherlock Holmes.

00:22:04.940 He's also a fan of Winston Churchill.

00:22:07.060 If I can read one more quote, I think this sums up Tim Ball just perfectly.

00:22:11.900 Tim Ball says, or sorry, Winston Churchill said,

00:22:14.780 If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever.

00:22:19.400 Use a pile driver.

00:22:21.000 Hit the point once, then come back and hit it again.

00:22:23.100 Then hit it a third time.

00:22:24.720 A tremendous whack.

00:22:26.860 So as I told the audience, Dr. Ball throughout his career has given the climate scare a tremendous whack.

00:22:34.340 And that's why he got a Lifetime Achievement Award.

00:22:37.120 I mean, he's really one of the bravest people I know.

00:22:39.760 He's my hero.

00:22:40.700 Yeah, he's really been put through the ringer.

00:22:44.440 I just jotted down a quick note as you were talking about the surface readings to detect overall trends in weather patterns and temperature.

00:22:56.780 And I think it was Willie Soon, Dr. Willie Soon.

00:23:00.260 I was at a Friends of Science event in Calgary.

00:23:03.940 He's great.

00:23:04.800 For those who don't know, Willie Soon is an astrophysicist and a geoscientist.

00:23:08.500 And he was pointing out the fact that many of the places where they take the readings, these weather stations where they take the readings and then put them into the computer and crank out their models, a lot of these are not in places where they should be.

00:23:29.880 For example, they are in the middle of a parking lot, a paved parking lot or they're on a roof, a dark roof.

00:23:38.600 So where the conditions around them affect the temperature readings.

00:23:43.700 And yet that's the data that they're using to predict or to create these climate models.

00:23:49.620 And then they're using those climate models to tax me.

00:23:52.460 I know.

00:23:53.340 And the other thing is NASA considers an area covered if there is a temperature sensing station within 1200 kilometers.

00:24:02.640 OK, now think about it.

00:24:04.440 1200 kilometers is roughly the distance from Ottawa to Myrtle Beach.

00:24:08.640 So that says NASA would say that a region is covered if you have one temperature sensing station in Ottawa.

00:24:15.740 You don't need any until you get to south of Myrtle Beach.

00:24:18.560 So, I mean, the bottom line is huge amounts of the world have no temperature sensing stations at all.

00:24:25.240 And so, yeah, they're in the wrong place in many cases.

00:24:28.520 But also we have very, very few.

00:24:30.960 We don't know what's happening to the Earth's climate right now, let alone 50 years in the future.

00:24:36.120 I wanted to talk to you about something.

00:24:39.780 It just sort of wandered into my mind because you were talking about how wrong weather predictions always are.

00:24:45.900 And the Weather Network, the other day, they had tweeted something about if Canadians want to fight climate change, we need to stop eating meat.

00:24:55.780 And then just a couple of days later, I see Tim Hortons is offering some mung bean abomination masquerading as an egg for their new like beyond meat breakfast sandwich needs an exorcism. 0.99

00:25:11.020 What do you think the what do you think the motive is for all these companies and all these organizations now saying, OK, well, you got to use less fossil fuels to fight climate change, but also you need to live off insects basically now to save the planet in 18 months?

00:25:30.840 Well, I think in most cases, it's just a desire to be politically correct.

00:25:35.100 And, you know, the left have defined essentially what political correctness is.

00:25:39.360 And sadly, it's not giving inexpensive electricity to the poor.

00:25:43.600 It's trying to save the planet or everybody should go vegan or something.

00:25:47.600 But but I think that in general, we have to expose the consequences of the climate scare because the consequences are disastrous.

00:25:56.700 It's not just that we'll lose our conveniences. It's that millions of people will starve around the world if we, in fact, are not able to use fossil fuels to for agriculture and for heating and all those sorts of things, because fossil fuels is the lifeblood of civilization.

00:26:13.240 And this is one of the things that they pointed out in the conference.

00:26:15.900 We had economists there who were showing a very interesting phenomena that most people on the left don't understand.

00:26:22.080 And that is that once you get to a certain point in development, the richer you become, the more you protect the environment.

00:26:29.620 OK, it's actually an upside down you at the beginning, as you industrialize, the environment gets worse.

00:26:35.460 But you get to a certain point when beyond that, the richer you are, the more you protect the environment.

00:26:42.000 OK, that's called Kuznets curve.

00:26:43.420 And in fact, President Trump, in his Earth Day speech of this year, back on the 22nd of April, he didn't reference the curve, but he referenced the idea, the idea.

00:26:52.760 And of course, that's exactly right.

00:26:54.640 We need to have wealthy societies to have the time and the energy and the money and the resources to protect the environment.

00:27:01.980 So, yeah, we need capitalism to promote prosperity.

00:27:05.580 And that's how you protect the environment.

00:27:07.700 But, you know, forget about climate change.

00:27:09.760 We're not controlling that.

00:27:10.860 We do want to protect the environment, though, from pollution by getting wealthy.

00:27:15.880 You know, what a great way to end our interview.

00:27:20.200 Tom, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:27:22.660 You're such a wealth of information and common sense.

00:27:26.120 And you're pretty fearless yourself.

00:27:27.920 I mean, you take a lot of heat for just questioning the consensus, so-called settled science.

00:27:36.760 Thanks for coming on the show.

00:27:38.240 And hopefully we can have you back on, too.

00:27:39.820 Okay, that would be great.

00:27:41.400 Thanks, Sheila.

00:27:42.160 Thanks, Tom.

00:27:42.720 If you're interested in seeing some of the discussions that happened at the Heartland Institute's 13th Annual International Conference on Climate Change,

00:28:03.820 they've done something really great.

00:28:05.680 They live-streamed their speakers to YouTube and to their website.

00:28:10.680 So you can see it all there.

00:28:12.460 And if you're interested in learning the other side of the climate change debate, that's a really great place to start.

00:28:18.620 That's the side that the fancy people don't want you to see.

00:28:22.120 They have some really smart people at the Heartland Institute challenging the so-called consensus.

00:28:26.400 And if you're interested in seeing more of Tom Harris' work, he's often published in PJ Media.

00:28:32.980 Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight.

00:28:34.940 Thank you so much for tuning in.

00:28:36.920 I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.

00:28:40.120 And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - August 01, 2019

Climate skeptics are welcome in Trump's America： Here's what they talk about (GUEST： Tom Harris)

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