Rebel News Podcast - May 10, 2022


EZRA LEVANT ｜ A bail-out journalist really, really wants me to think he’s still independent and entrepreneurial


Episode Stats


Length

45 minutes

Words per minute

161.71844

Word count

7,368

Sentence count

591

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

10

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A government journalist wants to know if David Skok is still an independent and entrepreneurial company, and I'm here to give him a fair hearing. I'll tell you what he says, and why I don't think he's right.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.200 Hello, my friends. I had a strange Twitter war with a rival publisher.
00:00:06.400 His name is David Skok. He seems like a nice guy.
00:00:08.900 He runs something called The Logic, which has, you know, a couple thousand stuff.
00:00:14.840 Good for him.
00:00:16.220 And a few years ago when he launched, he swore on a stack of Bibles
00:00:20.680 he would never take a dime from Trudeau.
00:00:23.400 But I'm afraid to say that changed, and he's not handling it well.
00:00:27.080 I'll go through it with you.
00:00:30.000 And I'll give him fair, you know, fair hearing.
00:00:33.120 I'll show you what he said.
00:00:35.480 I'd like you to subscribe to Rebel News Plus.
00:00:37.340 That's our subscription.
00:00:39.420 You get the video version of this podcast.
00:00:43.240 You know, David Skok charges $300 a year for his subscription for The Logic.
00:00:49.660 I can't believe it.
00:00:51.080 Ours is $80 for the year.
00:00:53.600 And not only do you get my daily show, but you get four other shows a week.
00:00:58.700 Sheila Gunn-Reed, David Menzies, Andrew Chapados, Kat and Nat.
00:01:05.160 So you're getting so much stuff, and it's, what, barely a quarter of what he charges.
00:01:11.340 I'm just saying.
00:01:13.260 And I'm like, and we don't take money from Trudeau.
00:01:16.040 Please go to rebelnewsplus.com.
00:01:17.520 Click subscribe to help us out.
00:01:18.800 All right.
00:01:19.020 Here's today's show.
00:01:34.980 Tonight, a bailout journalist really, really wants me to think he's still independent and entrepreneurial.
00:01:41.040 I don't think I'm convinced, though.
00:01:43.360 It's May 9th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
00:01:47.660 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
00:01:51.340 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
00:01:55.420 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I'm publishing it is because it's my bloody right to do so.
00:02:01.280 I saw this little tweet yesterday.
00:02:09.020 I don't know how it came across my feed.
00:02:10.820 It said, Meet The Logic, an unashamedly wonkish Canadian news startup led by David Skock.
00:02:20.080 Founded in 2018, its staff has grown from 3 to 23, including 18 journalists.
00:02:26.900 The Logic publishes one or two impactful stories a day, giving reporters freedom to dig deep.
00:02:33.700 Hmm.
00:02:34.760 You've got 18 journalists, and you only do one story a day?
00:02:37.540 That seems weird to me.
00:02:39.700 I mean, I guess each of them works for a month on a story.
00:02:44.320 I don't know.
00:02:44.680 It seems a bit odd.
00:02:46.700 But I have heard of this startup.
00:02:48.920 It's been around for four years, so I'm not sure how long it gets to call itself a startup.
00:02:53.680 I remember when it was born, I was actually a little bit excited for them because I know it's tough to start something new in journalism.
00:03:01.600 And they were going with a very expensive paywall model right out of the gates.
00:03:05.140 $300 a year.
00:03:06.560 That seemed high to me, especially for something that hadn't really proven itself yet.
00:03:10.580 I remember that for the first six months or so, this show, the Ezra LeVant show, we broadcast it for free to everyone.
00:03:16.580 The hope was that we would prove ourselves and people would be willing to pay $80 a year for it after that.
00:03:23.180 But even then, we put chunks of the show on YouTube every day still for free.
00:03:28.560 So $300 a year paid in advance.
00:03:31.700 They don't let you have monthly subscriptions, I don't think.
00:03:34.220 It's a bit bold, but good for him for trying.
00:03:36.620 And here's what David Skok, its founder, said back in 2018.
00:03:42.660 He said in a letter from the editor, he said, seven ways to bail out the government's journalism bailout.
00:03:48.700 He was responding to Trudeau's $600 million journalism bailout announcement.
00:03:54.780 And I'll just read a little bit.
00:03:56.980 Necessity breeds innovation.
00:03:59.380 And the government's intervention removes that necessity for Canadian journalism.
00:04:03.640 I founded this publication on the belief that journalistic independence comes from financial independence.
00:04:11.140 All right, good for him.
00:04:12.680 He's right, of course.
00:04:13.680 But even back then, you could see there were some cracks in his confidence.
00:04:17.620 He said, but while I'd love to stand on principle, if I don't apply for these grants,
00:04:23.300 I will be putting the logic at a severe disadvantage in retaining talent and securing investment
00:04:28.580 in a marketplace distorted by government intervention that rewards incumbent firms.
00:04:34.400 But at least he admits it's wrong, it's bad, it's unfair.
00:04:38.240 And at least for a while, he was willing to hold the line.
00:04:42.080 And I like this part.
00:04:42.920 He wasn't for official journalism or credentialism.
00:04:47.120 Here's what he said.
00:04:47.780 Freedom of the press is a fundamental right of our charter that is as essential to our democracy
00:04:53.540 as the court system and elected office.
00:04:56.840 It's a craft that any citizen can do.
00:04:59.500 It is not and never should be considered an industry.
00:05:03.000 And so framing the analysis as the consequences of news media concentration and the erosion of
00:05:08.380 local news reporting, as the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage did in his final report,
00:05:13.800 leads to trying to solve the wrong problem.
00:05:16.520 Hmm.
00:05:17.480 I think he's right.
00:05:20.000 He had some suggestions, some are better than others, but at least for a while, he was standing
00:05:24.680 on principle.
00:05:25.540 So this tweet yesterday about the great success of Skok and The Logic, well, that was good news, right?
00:05:32.920 I mean, here's the story behind that tweet.
00:05:36.020 It was published in the UK.
00:05:39.520 CEO David Skok on the rise of his wonkish Canadian news startup, The Logic.
00:05:45.040 Well, that's good.
00:05:45.860 It's rising.
00:05:46.440 David Skok, a former newspaper and broadcast journalist, founded subscription news startup,
00:05:52.280 The Logic, in 2018 with $300,000 Canadian of investment and three employees.
00:05:58.180 Four years on, The Logic will soon have a staff of 23 and it's growing fast.
00:06:02.800 OK, well, good for him.
00:06:04.240 But I thought the tweet said they already had 23 staff.
00:06:07.520 Minor point, I guess.
00:06:08.960 I'll read some more.
00:06:09.520 With a wonkish approach to journalism, The Logic has established itself as a widely respected
00:06:15.560 tech and business news entity in Canada.
00:06:18.900 Skok, The Logic's chief executive and editor-in-chief, says subscription numbers have approximately
00:06:25.260 doubled each year since launch.
00:06:27.940 OK, be honest.
00:06:28.660 Have you ever heard of them?
00:06:30.080 Probably not, but it doesn't matter.
00:06:32.420 If only one in a thousand Canadians subscribed to them, they'd be a huge success, right?
00:06:37.460 And it sounds like they are a huge success.
00:06:39.840 Subscription numbers have doubled every year.
00:06:43.160 That's incredible.
00:06:44.240 Good for him.
00:06:46.540 The thing I think that was a shock was I had grand ambitions of raising millions of dollars
00:06:50.840 to get The Logic off the ground.
00:06:52.800 I realized very quickly when I was fundraising that this was going to be a lot harder than
00:06:56.580 I thought.
00:06:57.440 And so all of my forecasting and operating models had to be revised dramatically downwards.
00:07:02.040 We ended up raising $300,000.
00:07:04.740 It wasn't a lot and we had to stretch that.
00:07:07.460 The Logic was able to raise a further $1.8 million in 2019 from newspaper publisher Post
00:07:13.700 Media, Relay Ventures, and Angel Investors.
00:07:18.260 OK, so he's raised a couple million bucks now from private investors.
00:07:21.720 That's pretty good.
00:07:23.480 And he boasted that his subscriptions have doubled every year now.
00:07:26.940 Theoretically, that could be $1 to $2, $2 to $4.48.
00:07:29.680 But I assume it's more than that.
00:07:30.960 So good for him.
00:07:32.400 Now, I'm not going to read the rest of the article, but it ends a bit vaguely.
00:07:35.320 Obviously, Skok would like to expand his website more, including with foreign reporters.
00:07:39.780 OK.
00:07:41.320 Now, almost everything in this article was positive.
00:07:43.620 The rise of the logic.
00:07:45.000 That sounds great.
00:07:45.700 Except the article didn't mention something really, really, really important.
00:07:52.660 At least I think it's important.
00:07:55.080 David Skok caved.
00:07:57.780 He abandoned his objection to taking Trudeau's bailout money.
00:08:01.780 Even though he said he didn't want to.
00:08:04.600 That you just couldn't trust government media.
00:08:06.240 Even though he's raised more than two million bucks from the private sector.
00:08:12.000 He still went to Trudeau for money.
00:08:14.900 I wonder why that glowing biography of him didn't mention that.
00:08:20.440 It's probably because he didn't mention it.
00:08:23.000 He was boasting of his success.
00:08:24.660 I wonder why he didn't mention the Trudeau money.
00:08:26.740 Well, because the secret to the logic's success, if indeed you could call it that, is that David Skok's best laid plans just didn't work.
00:08:36.140 And then the investment from those corporate media giants just didn't work.
00:08:40.640 And David decided to go for the cash big time.
00:08:44.660 Personally, I would suggest that he brings down his $300 a year subscription.
00:08:49.440 At least letting people pay monthly.
00:08:51.180 I mean, really.
00:08:52.060 It's a bit presumptuous for just one story a day.
00:08:54.580 But Skok didn't just flip-flop, abandon his principles and take the government cash.
00:09:02.060 He went into full government journalist propaganda mode.
00:09:05.740 And he decided he was suddenly very much in favor of Trudeau's bailouts.
00:09:11.500 Not just for personal reasons of profit, but because suddenly he thought it was good for the country, you see.
00:09:17.200 Not just for him.
00:09:18.380 You see, he now deeply believed in it.
00:09:20.660 So much so that he started attacking critics of it, like Michael Geist, the professor.
00:09:26.180 So much so that he started joining the liberal team for liberal events.
00:09:30.940 Just for example, here's David Skok, the independent journalist, participating in a liberal party conference hosted by the liberals party think tank called Canada 2020, starring the liberal cabinet minister, Pablo Rodriguez.
00:09:43.440 Now, you can see David Skok at the bottom right here, happy as a clam.
00:09:47.720 Now, I watched the video.
00:09:49.560 They all agree that the government should fund journalists.
00:09:52.360 They're all in agreement.
00:09:53.220 They've actually moved on from that.
00:09:55.280 Now they're debating how much Google and Facebook should be forced by the government to pay journalists, too.
00:10:02.080 It makes me laugh because David Skok, who a couple of years ago was boasting about how independent he was, he actually got into an argument on this liberal panel with the Toronto Star guy about how much a small outlet like him gets compared to the big guys when they're carving up the pie.
00:10:19.960 That's what they're fighting about now.
00:10:21.640 Which journalists get the jackpot?
00:10:25.020 That's who David Skok is now.
00:10:28.840 That's what the logic is now.
00:10:30.860 But make no mistake about it.
00:10:32.640 Everyone on that panel, even though they're bickering, they all want the government to bail them out.
00:10:36.980 And now that they've had a taste of free money, they all want Google and Facebook to bail them out, too.
00:10:42.500 That's what Trudeau's Bill C-18 does.
00:10:45.160 If you tell me, here's a quick clip of Big Boss and the Toronto Star telling you how it is.
00:10:50.740 First of all, let me just, for the audience, just step back for a second and explain that while we have all of us here as panelists, the vast majority of reporters are represented by the Canadian News Industry Association and Ethnic Media News Association as well.
00:11:10.560 Both of those associations, with the vast majority, we're talking 90-something percent of the reporters in the marketplace, strongly support this deal.
00:11:18.760 There you have it.
00:11:19.940 What, 90-plus percent of journalists are piggies at the trough.
00:11:23.660 They're just fighting over who gets what share of the free cash.
00:11:27.620 And Skok is agitated as ever because it's clear that he's still not making a go of it.
00:11:34.900 Now, I find that sad, really.
00:11:38.140 Anyway, so I called out Skok yesterday on Twitter. 1.00
00:11:41.040 Or really, I called out the puff piece from the UK about him.
00:11:44.300 I use tough language, I admit, but I'm sort of mad.
00:11:46.520 Here's a guy who broke his promise.
00:11:48.260 I said, hilarious that you praise these journalists as if they're an entrepreneurial success.
00:11:53.240 In fact, the logic was a failure.
00:11:55.620 So Skok turned to Trudeau for massive government subsidies.
00:11:58.760 Only then did he succeed.
00:12:00.540 And coincidentally, he has become a big booster of Trudeau.
00:12:04.020 And then I use the word prostitute.
00:12:06.780 To my surprise, David Skok answered me and said, this guy is so brilliant that he knows more about my business model than I do.
00:12:14.660 Well, I know a bit of it, a $300 a year subscription.
00:12:20.420 And when that didn't work, investments from corporate media.
00:12:25.000 And when that didn't work, a Trudeau bailout.
00:12:29.200 And since that didn't work, demanding a government-induced bailout from Facebook and Google.
00:12:34.920 Did I get it right?
00:12:35.940 So I wrote back to him.
00:12:38.920 I'm happy to engage in banter.
00:12:41.000 I said, well, that's the thing, isn't it?
00:12:43.180 The amount of Trudeau's payments to you are a secret.
00:12:46.280 And you sure won't tell.
00:12:48.440 But boy, are you ever a loyal soldier for him these days.
00:12:51.380 And he said to me, well, we are a private company, but you've also never asked.
00:12:57.220 I believe we received $47,000 in 2020 from QCJO.
00:13:01.680 And we also received emergency periodical funding that has been reported and is disclosed on our site.
00:13:07.000 We have not received anything from 2019, 2021 that I know of yet.
00:13:11.280 Remember, QCJO stands for Qualified Canadian Journalism Organization.
00:13:15.920 That's Trudeau's journalism license that gets him the free money.
00:13:19.580 Okay, so $47,000.
00:13:23.680 Now, that's not going to make or break a company, is it?
00:13:26.780 But I appreciate the answer.
00:13:29.120 Honestly, it was less than I thought it would be.
00:13:31.440 Imagine being able to buy a journalist, literally to get him to change his mind on a major issue of public policy,
00:13:40.160 on press freedom and press independence, and not just that, to get him to come to a Liberal Party event for $47,000.
00:13:46.760 It seems cheap.
00:13:47.620 I mean, yeah, $47,000 is a lot of money, but really, is that all it takes to turn a guy who leads, is it 23 journalists or almost 23 journalists?
00:13:56.640 Now, I argued back and forth, and I'm going to spare you most of it, but he thought I was mean.
00:14:03.060 And maybe I was.
00:14:03.720 So, he said, good to see how much respect you have for small business owners.
00:14:10.960 Well, what do you think I am, buddy?
00:14:12.420 So, I replied, ha, you are now a crown agency, a bureaucrat.
00:14:17.600 You can't cash checks from Trudeau and pretend to be anything more than a grifter.
00:14:21.740 Just admit it.
00:14:22.880 You work for Trudeau.
00:14:24.040 Don't play pretend tycoon.
00:14:26.080 I mean, seriously, pick a lane.
00:14:29.200 You cannot pretend to be an entrepreneur, the hero of that puff piece written in the UK, 0.80
00:14:34.420 while also pocketing cash from Trudeau.
00:14:36.220 So, you cannot be both things.
00:14:37.840 You must pick a lane.
00:14:38.820 But Holly Doan of Blacklock, you know them?
00:14:41.800 They're one of the few independent media.
00:14:43.360 She was watching our exchange.
00:14:45.140 And Holly is a great researcher.
00:14:47.920 Remember, Skok said he didn't receive anything in 2019, 2020.
00:14:50.620 That's what he said.
00:14:52.380 Well, look what Holly found.
00:14:56.400 In the past two years, Skok and The Logic have pocketed one check.
00:15:00.260 Do you see that?
00:15:01.300 For $218,000 and another for $149,000.
00:15:04.820 What's that?
00:15:05.200 About $370,000, if my math's right.
00:15:08.280 Now, that is some serious money.
00:15:10.260 That's more money than Skok said he raised to start the whole thing.
00:15:14.680 Trudeau is his senior partner now, isn't he?
00:15:16.660 Now, I tell you, he wouldn't stop debating with me, which is unusual.
00:15:21.420 I mean, why was he doing that?
00:15:23.200 Why did he care so much about what I thought?
00:15:26.600 We've never really had any interactions that I can recall.
00:15:29.860 His audience is very different than ours.
00:15:32.080 His world is very different than ours.
00:15:34.220 Look at him now.
00:15:35.200 He's hanging out in the world of Liberal Party bailouts and big tech bailouts.
00:15:40.720 We're in the world of trucker convoys and populists.
00:15:43.300 Why would he even waste time with me?
00:15:46.860 Most of these tweets were on the weekend, too.
00:15:49.040 Why?
00:15:50.840 I have a theory.
00:15:51.780 I think I know why.
00:15:53.840 He's a sensitive man.
00:15:56.860 99% of government journalists just take the money and shut up about it, right?
00:16:02.160 Because there's a bit of shame there, I think.
00:16:04.680 They just ignore their critics.
00:16:06.260 You just hang out with other grifters and no one makes you feel uncomfortable.
00:16:10.540 That video conference I showed you the other day, they had some disagreements amongst themselves,
00:16:16.420 that liberal group of journalists, but it was just really how to carve up the pie they
00:16:20.800 were about to eat.
00:16:21.800 But they all agreed to the basics.
00:16:24.080 They want bailouts from Trudeau and Mark Zuckerberg.
00:16:27.040 Those folks would never engage with me because they're interested in backing up the Brinks truck, 1.00
00:16:34.060 not debating philosophical points about press freedom.
00:16:37.100 But this David Skog, this is my theory, he hasn't completely sold out in his heart.
00:16:43.820 Under all that government money, what, half a billion, half a million that we know about,
00:16:49.720 what is it, up to now, a million, there's still a little grain of the old David Skog,
00:16:54.980 who knew the value and the moral worth of independence and freedom and non-partisanship.
00:17:02.300 And that little grain hasn't yet, you know, managed to be silenced or his conscience hasn't
00:17:09.340 been killed off.
00:17:10.700 He was fighting me not to convince me.
00:17:13.820 But to convince himself.
00:17:16.720 He was trying to maintain the illusion for himself that he is independent because the
00:17:21.220 truth is too uncomfortable to him.
00:17:22.560 The truth is he's sold out.
00:17:24.240 I think maybe he's a good man doing bad things, using his clever mind to come up with complicated
00:17:29.000 justifications for reneging on his very public promise not to take Trudeau's money.
00:17:34.980 He was still at it again this morning.
00:17:37.360 This is what he said to me this morning.
00:17:38.460 He said, you're putting words in my mouth.
00:17:40.280 I'm not sensitive, just trying to engage in a good faith dialogue with you to combat misinformation.
00:17:45.880 Oh, yeah, no, no.
00:17:47.820 There's no misinformation, buddy.
00:17:49.640 We saw that tweet from Holly Doan that was taken straight from the government's website.
00:17:54.680 Skog has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from Trudeau.
00:17:57.040 It's probably up to millions now.
00:17:59.680 He swore he wouldn't.
00:18:01.740 Misinformation.
00:18:02.300 He's starting to sound like his patron Trudeau, calling dissenting opinions misinformation so
00:18:08.700 he doesn't have to deal with other points of view.
00:18:11.160 He can just put them in an enemies list.
00:18:14.660 Oh, don't worry.
00:18:16.000 His enemies will be censored soon enough.
00:18:18.980 That's part of Trudeau's plan, too.
00:18:21.460 The whole thing makes me a little bit sad.
00:18:23.260 I have to say, I like David Skog, even though I had hard words for him.
00:18:30.040 I like him because he seems like someone who is pouring his whole heart into things, into
00:18:34.960 his creation, the logic.
00:18:36.640 He's failing as a businessman, and that hurts.
00:18:38.960 Oh, I know.
00:18:40.620 But he loves his project so much, he's willing to sell out to Trudeau and to Zuckerberg, too.
00:18:47.480 I like that he's a conscience that bothers him.
00:18:50.120 I like that about him.
00:18:51.200 I like that he wants to be thought of as an honest journalist, unlike 99% of them.
00:18:56.720 You heard that man from the Toronto Star.
00:18:58.580 99% of journalists are now fully embedded into Trudeau's government.
00:19:03.260 You've just met David Skog, the one journalist who is still publicly uncomfortable with it,
00:19:11.080 enough to pretend that he's not actually who he has become.
00:19:17.580 Stay with us for more.
00:19:21.200 On this anniversary of Victory Day in Europe, standing strong against Putin's illegal war and
00:19:38.220 in defense of democracy, human rights and international law is as important as it ever has been.
00:19:44.960 We will continue together to impose severe sanctions, eliminate the dependency on Russian energy and fight disinformation.
00:19:55.300 Well, there you have it, Justin Trudeau with a surprise visit to Kiev.
00:20:01.440 The same day, Jill Biden, the first lady of the United States, attended.
00:20:06.400 Joe Biden did not.
00:20:07.180 But I think that the security situation in Kiev is a little more relaxed than it has been in the past because U2, the rock band, was there too.
00:20:18.440 Wouldn't surprise me if that's why Trudeau chose to make his visit.
00:20:22.080 In fact, they gave a concert, I understand, in the Kiev subway, which says that perhaps things in the capital city, at least, are not in crisis, as sometimes you might expect in a war.
00:20:32.880 I think that what Trudeau said, there's some truth to it.
00:20:37.160 I think that Russia is to be condemned for their invasion of their sovereign country. 0.95
00:20:42.780 I think the invocation of the Second World War might be a bit dramatic given some of the affiliations of, for example, the Azov Battalion, which is given credentials and status in Ukraine, even though they are neo-Nazis, actual Nazis.
00:20:58.520 I think when Trudeau says that he is concerned about Russian energy dominance, it rings a little hollow, given that Trudeau has ruled out, has specifically refused building pipelines to send oil or gas to Europe.
00:21:12.800 And the part that irked me the most, I think, was his call that this was a battle against disinformation.
00:21:19.260 It's not disinformation that's killing people in Ukraine.
00:21:22.180 Disinformation is what Trudeau calls critics and dissidents he doesn't like.
00:21:25.880 And the fact that he would roll that in to his laundry list of things he hates about Russia is troubling, given that Trudeau himself is cracking down on free speech and calling anyone he doesn't like disinformers.
00:21:39.780 I find that troubling.
00:21:41.040 But what do you make of Trudeau rushing over there for yet another photo op?
00:21:45.100 Joining us now to talk about this is our friend Lee Humphrey, the president of James International Security and a military veteran.
00:21:53.060 It's great to see you again, Lee.
00:21:54.540 I know you have a lot of thoughts when it comes to war and conflict.
00:21:58.540 And I yield to you in those matters.
00:22:00.700 What's your take on things?
00:22:03.260 Well, you know, I think right now the idea of Trudeau, our deputy prime minister and our foreign minister,
00:22:10.500 all showing up in Kiev at the exact same time, but bringing nothing other than more rhetoric is very telling about where we are in this conflict, where Canada stands and what we're actually doing to assist the Ukraine in their fight against Russia.
00:22:30.660 I think it's a pretty sad testament to our legacy, especially when he made that announcement on VE Day and the sacrifices that so many made and how far above the bar Canada punched during World War II, that he shows up empty handed and delivers absolutely nothing other than words.
00:22:55.000 I understand that Canada had made a promise a few weeks ago to deliver four pieces of artillery and please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
00:23:05.000 So it was a very tangible promise of some military hardware.
00:23:08.940 I understand that those have not yet been delivered.
00:23:11.720 Can you correct me if I'm wrong on that?
00:23:13.400 So I understand.
00:23:16.060 I saw them being prepared, crated up, put on boats, a couple put on planes.
00:23:24.900 I've yet to been able to verify that they are operational in any sense of the matter, either in Poland or in Ukraine.
00:23:35.160 I understand the United States has begun a train the trainer program on the exact same piece of artillery, and maybe that's what they're waiting for.
00:23:46.020 But even more importantly, you know, there was very little ammunition shipped with those four guns with a promise that more would come.
00:23:56.020 Ammunition is pretty heavy, and so it's going to have to go on a boat.
00:23:59.760 And, I mean, it took them over 40 days to get our own artillery in place after they canceled it a couple of years ago and took it out of the battle court.
00:24:10.320 So, you know, I wouldn't count on this arriving and getting the training done and being operational in the fight for some time still.
00:24:20.400 Well, and that's the thing is you can't just give a weapons system, especially a modern high-tech weapons system, to an army that is unfamiliar with it.
00:24:27.220 I mean, Ukraine still uses a lot of former Soviet-made weapons, so to give them Western weapons and training, it just doesn't happen overnight.
00:24:37.160 I'm a little worried.
00:24:38.120 I'll tell you this very candidly, Lee.
00:24:39.940 I mean, I'm worried that some of the bellicose statements made by the West are too provocative.
00:24:48.260 And I'm not just talking about the political statements like we want to have regime change or we want to destroy the Russian army.
00:24:58.360 I mean, some of that talk you could just say is puffery.
00:25:01.300 But when the U.S. Pentagon takes credit for helping to sink that mighty Russian naval ship, the Moskva, or when the U.S. intelligence community takes credit for targeted killings of Russian generals in Ukraine,
00:25:18.740 you know, that bragging that it feels like the proxy war that Russia says it is.
00:25:25.080 And I'm nervous that one day Russia might retaliate in kind, hopefully not against Canada.
00:25:30.740 But I don't know.
00:25:31.420 I'm just worried that this really is becoming the West jubilantly trapping Russia's military and killing it in Ukraine.
00:25:43.200 And I suppose I can understand the strategic value of that, but I'm worried that strategically it will get out of hand and Russia might strike us.
00:25:49.640 Am I being too afraid?
00:25:52.360 I think Russia, you know, is going to limit their attacks on the West.
00:25:59.080 But over the last month, I've seen a dramatic change in the Russian approach to this conflict.
00:26:06.080 They've begun strategically striking railroads, arms depots, NATO equipment, warehouses, and things of that nature.
00:26:19.140 And so they're clearly saying that NATO equipment, and if NATO trainers are silly enough to move into Western Ukraine and the Lyev area and become targets,
00:26:33.700 then it's going to be very difficult for NATO to claim that this is anything other than Russian self-defense attempting to keep these weapons out of the hands of their enemy.
00:26:46.120 Honestly, I'm more concerned, I think, about over the last two months, we've seen a dramatic change in the way military pundits, the media, are analyzing and are portraying this conflict.
00:27:03.740 You know, for going on 50 years now, ever since the Pentagon Papers, the media and punditry on television have been very questioning, to be polite about it,
00:27:19.220 about what official military press flacks like at the Pentagon or at the White House are putting forward.
00:27:28.580 In this case, you know, it seems like there's a lot of cheerleading going on, as opposed to accurate analysis.
00:27:37.360 And I'm no fan of Russia. I'm no fan of Putin.
00:27:41.000 I think what he's doing was inevitable, but, you know, it's horrific nonetheless.
00:27:47.080 But at the same time, I don't quite understand what the West's goals are in this by continuing to antagonize and to act like this is the greatest defeat of the Russian army in the history of the world.
00:28:06.180 When, in fact, over the last month, the Russians have made pretty significant gains in the Don Blask area and along the south.
00:28:15.160 And they've consolidated their lines and set more realistic military targets and goals that I think they will achieve.
00:28:22.680 You know, I'm not equating on a moral level Russia with America.
00:28:28.680 I'm not. I believe America is a great force for freedom and democracy.
00:28:32.060 And I think Russia is not. I think Russia and Vladimir Putin is a former KGB agent.
00:28:37.680 I believe he's a dark and evil man.
00:28:41.320 I think he's an imperialist. I think he's authoritarian.
00:28:44.200 That said, I can understand why Russia would want its own version of the Monroe Doctrine, 0.97
00:28:49.280 which from America's point of view is no enemy's bases in our hemisphere.
00:28:54.880 That's why Kennedy was so concerned about Russian missiles in Cuba.
00:28:59.920 Cuba. Cuba was a sovereign country. Cuba was Russia's ally.
00:29:04.020 Well, they were too close to America. And Ukraine abuts Russia.
00:29:08.620 And there's territories that have gone back and forth between the two countries.
00:29:11.640 And now Finland says they want in and all these NATO right abutting Russia.
00:29:17.200 I'm not saying there's a moral equivalence, but there is sort of a strategic symmetry I can understand.
00:29:25.200 And I think that there's sort of a I find some credibility to the argument that Western military adventurism is using Ukraine as sort of a battering ram to wear down the Russian military.
00:29:38.980 Look, they sunk a major capital ship. And I believe it was with American help.
00:29:44.400 That's that's what the Americans said. So, yeah, I get it.
00:29:47.200 You're you're you're wearing down Russia the same way Afghanistan wore down Russia. 0.98
00:29:52.020 And maybe that's a strategic objective. Frankly, I think China is the bigger threat. 0.79
00:29:56.140 But I'm worried you're still poking the bear with a country that has nukes. 0.83
00:29:59.980 Nukes. I I don't want to say I'm afraid of a nuclear war, but I'm more afraid than I have been at any time in the last 30 years.
00:30:09.440 Yeah, I just don't I find it baffling whatever the West's goals are and and the way they're going about it and the promises they've been making to the public about Putin will be on his knees.
00:30:25.020 His economy will be decimated. They may even trigger a coup within Russia.
00:30:33.180 But when you look at the reality, a couple of months later, the rubles, you know, doing just fine.
00:30:39.120 Putin is more popular at home than he's been in probably five or six years.
00:30:44.800 There is no internal threats against him that are at least obvious.
00:30:49.880 And and I don't get what the West is trying to achieve here.
00:30:55.340 I don't get what the media and the pundits are trying to achieve by convincing everyday Canadians and Americans that somehow Russia is is, you know, being destroyed and embarrassed.
00:31:07.660 And and and they'll eventually pull back and Ukraine will win. 0.93
00:31:12.320 I also don't understand the turning Zelensky into Churchill when you consider before the war, no EU leader would take his call.
00:31:22.140 He was massively unpopular at home for his inability to end corruption.
00:31:26.840 And he's become an ugly arc himself.
00:31:31.060 So, I mean, I really just I'm finding this entire thing, you know, I guess mentally I'm finding it fascinating, but in such a horrible way that the average Ukrainians are dying every day. 1.00
00:31:48.180 And it just I can't figure out what the goal, the end state is or what the end goals are for for the West.
00:31:57.960 Yeah. Well, let me wrap it up by referring back to Trudeau.
00:32:02.720 And we started off with his visit there, which he's had several visits to the region.
00:32:07.500 But this is his first to Kiev.
00:32:10.160 Always a photo op.
00:32:12.000 I mean, that's Trudeau style.
00:32:13.460 That's really what he focuses on.
00:32:15.400 I don't think he's a deep expert on policy, but let me show you a clip and we'll just play it in the background here.
00:32:20.440 It's not really important, the sound.
00:32:22.600 It's Trudeau raising the flag at the Canadian embassy in Kiev, which I think is a good thing to do.
00:32:28.220 I think it's good to open the embassy there.
00:32:30.120 I think that is a good symbol by nature.
00:32:33.180 An embassy is is there for good reasons to help Canadians on the ground to be a diplomatic liaison.
00:32:40.440 I think that's good to reopen the embassy if it's the judgment that it's safe to do so.
00:32:44.320 And if it's safe to do so, that's a good sign, too.
00:32:47.180 But but here's my comment from a photo op point of view.
00:32:51.460 Trudeau fumbled with that flag for two minutes.
00:32:53.880 He couldn't get it.
00:32:55.040 He couldn't get it up.
00:32:56.000 Now, I'm not blaming him.
00:32:57.020 It wasn't his job to set it up.
00:32:59.000 I don't think that there's a special trick to it that he that he failed to know.
00:33:03.240 I think it was just, you know, there's a lot going on there.
00:33:06.720 And maybe they just didn't check in advance that this flag was ready to raise.
00:33:10.280 Here's my point, Lee.
00:33:11.340 This is a photo op trip.
00:33:13.260 It's all for the photos.
00:33:14.620 It's all for the media.
00:33:15.800 And the Canadian media was there on mass.
00:33:17.700 And we're letting this video run so you can see just how painful it was for so long.
00:33:22.600 I haven't seen this video clip anywhere other on other than on little Twitter accounts.
00:33:27.540 I haven't seen it on the CBC or CTV.
00:33:29.760 Now, maybe I missed it.
00:33:30.820 I could be wrong.
00:33:32.220 But here's my point.
00:33:33.220 If it were Stephen Harper who couldn't raise a flag or Jason Kenney, like Jason Kenney the
00:33:37.940 other day had trouble getting the gas nozzle out of the gas tank of his pickup truck, every
00:33:43.980 TV station and newspaper ran that because it was sort of funny.
00:33:47.420 And Kenney sort of looked goofy for a minute.
00:33:49.780 It wasn't a moral failing.
00:33:51.020 But I think that the media that accompanies Trudeau, not only do they love him and they
00:33:56.500 are disinformationers for him, but look at them covering up this little gaffe for him.
00:34:01.560 I can't trust the media at all.
00:34:03.880 And I think I learned this even more during the lockdowns.
00:34:06.740 What do you make it not?
00:34:08.060 I don't blame Trudeau for the fact he couldn't raise the flag.
00:34:11.040 But I blame the media for covering up this little photo op blemish because they're clearly
00:34:15.280 just propagandists for him.
00:34:16.540 Yeah, like to your point, on one hand, our ambassador cut and run so early in Afghanistan
00:34:24.160 and fled and left his staff behind.
00:34:26.480 That was a terrible embarrassment.
00:34:28.240 He hasn't been held to account for that.
00:34:30.720 So it was good to see them go back to Kiev because I think many nations left far too early
00:34:37.160 and reestablish our official embassy and raise our flag because we are part of the Ukrainian
00:34:46.320 allies that are doing something, if not much, but something to support them.
00:34:53.120 His failure to launch on the flag, well, you know, we used to have a saying in the military
00:34:58.080 called, time spent on recce is seldom wasted.
00:35:01.520 In other words, rehearsals, practice, making sure you get something right before you do it
00:35:07.260 in front of the public is kind of important.
00:35:09.920 I don't blame him either.
00:35:11.080 He just, you know, bore the brunt of it.
00:35:13.560 And he's a photo op king and they blew it for him.
00:35:17.280 So yeah, it's goofy for a minute.
00:35:19.800 But I think it encapsulates our foreign policy in a broader picture that our foreign policy
00:35:26.540 is just so lost that it's like that little flag that just couldn't go up.
00:35:33.880 That flagpole that just wouldn't work.
00:35:36.420 It just, it flounders in the water with no direction, no anchors.
00:35:43.880 And Melanie Jolie just can't seem to articulate what we believe in as a country and how we're
00:35:51.100 going to apply that around the world.
00:35:53.900 And I think that little flag was just that goofy little demonstration that sort of wraps
00:35:58.260 it all up.
00:35:58.780 Yeah.
00:35:59.700 You know, a few years ago, Justin Trudeau pulled out all the stops in the campaign for
00:36:04.160 Canada to get elected by the countries of the world to the UN Security Council for the
00:36:09.400 temporary positions.
00:36:11.260 There's the permanent members and then there's the temporary ones.
00:36:13.900 And I got to say, as much as it pains me as a Canadian, I think that the countries of
00:36:17.840 the world used good judgment in denying Trudeau a seat on the Security Council.
00:36:23.000 And I don't think in the years that have followed, he has shown any reason that he should be taken
00:36:28.760 seriously on the global stage.
00:36:30.460 And maybe, maybe it's a good thing because I just don't, I just don't think we've, like
00:36:34.660 you said, punched above our weight like we used to do.
00:36:36.900 I just don't think we're doing that anymore.
00:36:38.380 Last word to you, my friend.
00:36:40.540 Yeah, it's sad to see.
00:36:42.880 I mean, I love this country greatly and I personally sacrificed a lot for it.
00:36:48.680 And my friends have sacrificed even more.
00:36:52.320 And I don't like seeing this happen at all, but I think you nailed it.
00:36:57.100 You know, Trudeau is, was a hero at the very beginning.
00:37:00.540 He was, you know, mobbed by fans.
00:37:03.420 And then the other world leaders discovered that he's a lightweight all about the socks
00:37:07.820 and the hair.
00:37:08.660 And that was that.
00:37:10.120 And they're not having, wasting their time.
00:37:13.900 Yeah.
00:37:14.540 Well, great to catch up with you, my friend.
00:37:16.280 And we'll hope to talk to you again on this war, which I hope ends quickly.
00:37:20.600 We're talking with T. Lee Humphrey from James, James International Security out of Calgary.
00:37:25.840 Take care, my friend.
00:37:27.460 Thank you, Ezra.
00:37:28.420 All right.
00:37:29.060 Stay with us.
00:37:29.900 Your letters to me next.
00:37:31.200 Hey, welcome back.
00:37:43.980 Your viewer feedback.
00:37:45.340 Dave O'Shea says that David Menzies interview with Patrick Brown at the Hockey Arena is a classic.
00:37:51.680 It will definitely go down in history.
00:37:53.180 We laugh every time we watch it.
00:37:54.880 Can't make this stuff up.
00:37:55.900 No matter how hard we try, the situation writes itself.
00:37:59.020 Oh, that was unbelievable.
00:38:01.820 And, you know, you could say it was luck or you could say it was coincidence.
00:38:05.740 Now, David Menzies works hard.
00:38:07.560 He's a great shoe leather journalist.
00:38:09.340 So he acted on a tip.
00:38:10.940 He was in the right place at the right time.
00:38:13.160 And, by the way, David goes on.
00:38:14.740 We call him Mission Specialist.
00:38:16.260 That's his title around here.
00:38:17.180 It's sort of fun.
00:38:18.100 And sometimes what he does doesn't pan out.
00:38:20.880 So that's just wonderful.
00:38:22.720 And David was classic.
00:38:24.080 And that look on Patrick Brown's face was just, oh, I won't forget that either.
00:38:28.060 Vezo Sobot writes, David Menzies is one of the best commentators in the media in Canada today, delivering outrage with a wonderful teaspoon of humor.
00:38:37.620 Go, rebel, go.
00:38:38.940 Thank you, Vezo.
00:38:40.060 And David is one of my favorite guys.
00:38:42.360 And he's a happy warrior, isn't he?
00:38:44.300 And he's very effective.
00:38:46.560 I mean, I'm grateful for him for his help.
00:38:50.280 Hey, I want to leave you with our video of the day from Alexa Lavoie.
00:38:52.940 And Conservative MP Melissa Lansman takes on the federal vaccine mandate for travel.
00:39:01.020 And I'm glad she is because it really is punitive.
00:39:04.960 It really is punitive.
00:39:05.800 I'll leave you with that video until tomorrow.
00:39:07.800 On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, you at home.
00:39:10.440 Good night.
00:39:11.620 Keep fighting for freedom.
00:39:13.300 So, hey, Alexa, for Red News. 0.80
00:39:14.720 And I'm still at the Sean Center.
00:39:18.080 The event is wrapping up.
00:39:20.120 And so I had the opportunity to see Melissa Lansman.
00:39:25.640 And I went to see her to ask her a couple of questions about a petition that she endorsed recently.
00:39:33.780 Canada is currently one of the few countries that still prohibit their own citizens from leaving their country based on their vaccination status.
00:39:45.000 As if that wasn't enough, Air Canada employees who are currently not fully immunized against COVID-19 have received a letter informing them that they will be permanently laid off on May 2nd.
00:40:02.740 Following my report on Air Canada, Sergei Lina, President of the Air Canada Quebec Employee Union, contacted me to inform me of a petition he has submitted to Parliament in Ottawa.
00:40:18.280 The petition E3934 has been endorsed by Melissa Lansman.
00:40:24.900 For the people who don't know Melissa Lansman, she's the Conservative MP for Thornhill.
00:40:30.140 Let's check out my interview with her.
00:40:32.740 Recently, I talked with Sergei and you're the one from the Conservative Party who take the petition against the vaccine mandate and the people who lose their job and in the aeronautics.
00:40:48.760 Can you explain why you take the decision to put the petition at the Ottawa Parliament?
00:40:55.200 Yeah, look, I think, first of all, one of our jobs is to represent those who don't feel represented and those whose voices aren't being heard.
00:41:03.260 And I think in the case of these mandates, I think they're outdated.
00:41:07.260 I think they're ineffective.
00:41:08.560 And at this point, I think they're vindictive.
00:41:10.800 And I wanted to give Serge a voice.
00:41:12.980 And I have the opportunity to do that.
00:41:14.960 And I wanted to make sure that nobody would lose their job in this country because of a decision they made.
00:41:20.240 And the government can't do that.
00:41:23.000 And what are you going to do with the petition afterwards?
00:41:25.920 Because I think it's just done.
00:41:27.200 It's closed.
00:41:28.780 So I'm going to present the petition in the House of Commons.
00:41:31.840 I've presented some around this issue before.
00:41:34.740 As you know, you might know, I'm the transport critic.
00:41:37.320 So it falls within my portfolio.
00:41:39.440 It falls within something that I'm interested in.
00:41:42.600 And, you know, I've stood up in the House of Commons on an almost daily basis, trying to understand what evidence the government's looking at, when they got that evidence, and whether they'd table that evidence.
00:41:54.280 Because right now, it's all one big secret about why this country is so far behind other countries.
00:42:00.220 It's been 48 hours that the government went from doing nothing to a national emergency.
00:42:05.900 48 hours into using the measures, 48 hours without providing Parliament with a justification.
00:42:12.120 So my question is simple.
00:42:13.680 When will the Prime Minister admit that he's lost control of the situation, that he's lost control of his country, that he's lost control of his caucus, and that he's lost control of his leadership?
00:42:22.740 Some people are losing already their job, not for Air Canada, but some other company.
00:42:28.120 Do you have any plan or any action that you want to do for the next couple of months?
00:42:34.220 Yeah, look, I think we need a plan from this government.
00:42:38.080 We need a date from this government about when these mandates end.
00:42:41.640 And what we don't want to do, we don't want to rise, you know, rise from the House of Commons where we have the opportunity to hold them to account and go into a long summer where Canada is such an outlier in this.
00:42:52.380 You know, we have four or five, potentially six million Canadians, because of little kids, who can't travel.
00:43:01.160 That's unacceptable.
00:43:02.880 We have lots of people who have lost their jobs.
00:43:05.240 We have people that can't be reunited with their families, sick relatives, wanting to see somebody at the end of their life.
00:43:11.760 What is happening in this country right now is cruel.
00:43:14.460 It's unusual.
00:43:15.200 It's vindictive.
00:43:15.920 And it needs to end.
00:43:16.620 This party in the federal parliament has been fighting vaccine mandates.
00:43:21.420 We've been fighting the ridiculous rules around travel.
00:43:24.100 Melissa Lanceman sitting in the audience here has been an amazing member of parliament fighting this every step of the way.
00:43:29.780 And she does it with respect.
00:43:32.000 She does it with respect.
00:43:33.520 She's effective.
00:43:34.740 And she eviscerates the Liberals every day. 1.00
00:43:37.180 And she does it with grace and style.
00:43:39.140 We can do that.
00:43:39.820 We can do it.
00:43:40.600 Melissa Lanceman is the example.
00:43:41.660 And what is your thought about the Freedom Convoy who came to Ottawa?
00:43:46.060 Look, in terms of, you know, it's very hard to ignore the frustration of individuals who feel like they've had their livelihoods taken out.
00:43:55.060 And we want to know that we are listening.
00:43:57.060 That said, you know, in terms of those who break laws, we're the party of law and order and rules.
00:44:04.940 So you can't block critical infrastructure and you can't commit things that are against the law.
00:44:13.160 But in terms of the Freedom Convoy, I want them to know that there is one party in that House of Commons who hears them, who will continue to fight for their rights.
00:44:22.400 And just for finishing, for all the leaders that are putting their candidate for the leadership race, do you have one favourite?
00:44:31.720 Who are you or more on their side?
00:44:35.060 Look, I have the benefit of sitting on our interim leaders' leadership team.
00:44:43.080 As a result, we're staying neutral.
00:44:44.760 But in the past, I've, you know, I've had a long-time relationship with Pierre.
00:44:49.000 And I think everybody has done a good service for our party.
00:44:52.960 We're growing our memberships.
00:44:54.340 We're sending our message.
00:44:55.640 Our numbers are going up.
00:44:56.820 And I love to see a good race where we talk about ideas.
00:45:00.760 So it will be interesting to see how the race will play out and especially for the two other debates that's coming up, the French one and the English one.
00:45:10.620 And at Reben News, we will try to be there to cover it for you guys.
00:45:15.380 So please stay tuned for more to come.
00:45:18.820 Stay tuned.
00:45:18.920 Stay tuned.
00:45:19.140 You're welcome.
00:45:19.640 Stay tuned.
00:45:19.960 Stay tuned.
00:45:21.860 Stay tuned.
00:45:23.980 Stay tuned.
00:45:24.600 Stay tuned.
00:45:26.340 Stay tuned.
00:45:27.340 Stay tuned.
00:45:28.640 Stay tuned.
00:45:29.000 Stay tuned.
00:45:29.100 Stay tuned.
00:45:29.500 Stay tuned.
00:45:29.620 Stay tuned.
00:45:31.360 Stay tuned.
00:45:31.580 Stay tuned.
00:45:32.140 Stay tuned.
00:45:32.580 yine.