Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ A leaked document from the U.S. Supreme Court says that judges have overturned Roe v. Wade, the abortion ruling

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. You probably heard that the U.S. Supreme Court had one of its decisions leaked

00:00:05.260 by someone before it was ready, and it shows that they're striking down

00:00:08.940 the nationwide abortion ruling called Roe v. Wade. I'll take you through the ruling,

00:00:14.280 very interesting, and some of the political ramifications. Then we'll talk to Janine

00:00:19.020 Yunus, our favorite U.S. lawyer, about it. I'd like you to get the video version of this podcast.

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00:00:54.960 All right, here's today's podcast.

00:00:57.880 Tonight, a leaked document from the U.S. Supreme Court says that judges have overturned Roe v. Wade,

00:01:17.880 the abortion ruling. It's May 3rd, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:21.420 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:01:27.400 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:01:31.460 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:01:37.320 Last night, a draft court judgment from the U.S. Supreme Court was leaked to a journalist who published it.

00:01:51.160 It's unprecedented that such internal deliberations are leaked to the public.

00:01:55.860 To be clear, the draft ruling hasn't been finalized yet.

00:01:59.400 It hasn't been published yet.

00:02:01.140 It was leaked.

00:02:02.380 That's really no different than hacking something.

00:02:05.140 It's theft.

00:02:05.960 It's not just theft, though.

00:02:07.540 It undermines the integrity of the courts, undermines their reputation and prestige,

00:02:12.280 and of course, it must make judges and clerks of the court not trust each other.

00:02:17.000 This truly is a scandal.

00:02:19.080 The court ruling is this one here.

00:02:21.180 You can see it on the Politico website.

00:02:22.820 It's called Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health.

00:02:27.020 It's from Mississippi.

00:02:28.440 It's an abortion case. 0.98

00:02:30.580 So you can see why there's political intrigue.

00:02:33.400 And the draft ruling, which was dated in February, repeals Roe v. Wade,

00:02:38.680 the 1973 court decision that declared abortion to be a constitutional right in a 7-2 ruling back then.

00:02:45.480 Until that point in time, abortion laws varied from state to state.

00:02:49.840 This was a federal court, the Supreme Court of the United States, that just took that power away from the states.

00:02:55.740 It was an immensely political decision back then, still is, obviously.

00:02:59.960 And this leaked draft document, if it's to be believed,

00:03:04.420 and if the five judges who support the new ruling are not scared off now,

00:03:09.980 it will be undoing Roe v. Wade because of that.

00:03:13.560 I want to read parts of this draft ruling to you now.

00:03:16.060 This is written by Samuel Alito, who was appointed to the court by George W. Bush.

00:03:21.500 I really learned a lot from this ruling.

00:03:23.180 I find U.S. Supreme Court rulings to be so clear and understandable as opposed to Canadian court rulings.

00:03:29.180 Let me read passages of it to you, just because I'm going to guess that if you rely on the Globe and Mail or the CBC,

00:03:35.800 you probably won't ever know what these five judges actually said.

00:03:39.440 You'll probably hear that they're just banning abortion.

00:03:43.260 It's actually the opposite of what they're doing.

00:03:46.200 They're just saying the Supreme Court of the United States does not have the power to make decisions on such matters.

00:03:51.080 It's up to the states.

00:03:53.300 Let me read from the beginning.

00:03:54.700 Abortion represents a profound moral issue on which Americans hold sharply conflicting views.

00:04:02.920 Some believe fervently that a human person comes into being at conception and that abortion ends an innocent life.

00:04:09.560 Others feel just as strongly that any regulation of abortion invades a woman's right to control her own body

00:04:15.980 and prevents women from achieving full equality.

00:04:18.420 Still others, in a third group, think that abortion should be allowed under some but not all circumstances,

00:04:25.980 and those within this group hold a variety of views about the particular restrictions that should be imposed.

00:04:32.400 For the first 185 years after the adoption of the Constitution,

00:04:36.760 each state was permitted to address this issue in accordance with the views of its citizens.

00:04:42.880 Then in 1973, this court decided Roe v. Wade.

00:04:46.000 Even though the Constitution makes no mention of abortion,

00:04:49.820 the court held that it confers a broad right to obtain one.

00:04:53.540 It did not claim that American law or the common law had ever recognized such a right.

00:04:58.720 And its survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant,

00:05:02.860 e.g. its discussion of abortion in antiquity,

00:05:06.020 to the plainly incorrect, e.g. its assertion that abortion was probably never a crime under the common law.

00:05:12.700 After cataloging a wealth of other information,

00:05:16.000 having no bearing on the meaning of the Constitution,

00:05:18.940 the opinion concluded with a numbered set of rules,

00:05:22.160 much like those that might be found in a statute enacted by a legislature.

00:05:27.220 Under this scheme, each trimester of pregnancy was regulated differently,

00:05:31.860 but the most critical line was drawn at roughly the end of the second trimester,

00:05:35.940 which at the time corresponded to the point at which

00:05:38.580 a fetus was thought to achieve viability, i.e. the ability to survive outside the womb.

00:05:45.340 Although the court acknowledged that states had a legitimate interest in protecting potential life,

00:05:50.940 it found that this interest could not justify any restriction on pre-viability abortions.

00:05:55.640 The court did not explain the basis for this line,

00:05:58.580 and even abortion supporters have found it hard to defend Roe's reasoning.

00:06:03.360 One prominent constitutional scholar wrote that he would vote for a statute

00:06:07.420 very much like the one the court ended up drafting if he were a legislator,

00:06:11.920 but his assessment of Roe was memorable and brutal.

00:06:16.340 Roe was not constitutional law at all,

00:06:19.040 and gave almost no sense of an obligation to try to be.

00:06:22.980 At the time of Roe, 30 states still prohibited abortion at all stages.

00:06:27.800 In the years prior to that decision, about a third of the states had liberalized their laws,

00:06:32.920 but Roe abruptly ended that political process

00:06:35.620 and imposed the same highly restrictive regime on the entire nation,

00:06:40.260 and had effectively struck down the abortion laws of every single state.

00:06:45.620 That's all very interesting history, isn't it?

00:06:47.420 Kind of puts things into perspective.

00:06:50.780 It was a judicial coup in 1973.

00:06:52.980 It was seven men deciding to make a decision for 50 states

00:06:57.320 instead of letting those 50 states rule themselves.

00:07:00.660 Let me read a little bit more.

00:07:01.620 I find this very interesting, don't you?

00:07:04.000 We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled.

00:07:07.620 The Constitution makes no reference to abortion,

00:07:10.600 and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision,

00:07:14.380 including the one on which the defenders of Roe and Casey now chiefly rely,

00:07:18.460 the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.

00:07:21.460 That provision has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the Constitution,

00:07:26.500 but any such right must be deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition,

00:07:30.900 and implicit in the concept of ordered liberty.

00:07:33.800 The right to abortion does not fall within this category.

00:07:38.380 I won't read much more, but boy, does it go into the history of abortion and the history of abortion laws.

00:07:43.820 It won't surprise you to know that it has generally, even universally, been illegal until the sexual revolution.

00:07:50.060 If you have time to read the ruling, please do.

00:07:52.580 You can find it very easily online.

00:07:54.640 But what you will find is that although the five judges are clearly against abortion,

00:07:59.300 morality is not the basis for their ruling.

00:08:01.580 They're simply saying the 1973 ruling that invented a constitutional right to abortion out of thin air is junk law,

00:08:09.900 and it's for the states.

00:08:12.500 I'll read some more.

00:08:13.040 The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the nation's history and traditions.

00:08:20.860 On the contrary, an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment

00:08:24.580 persisted from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.

00:08:30.020 Now, of course, Democrats and prohibition advocates will hate this rule,

00:08:34.180 but surely this comes down to the question,

00:08:36.440 do you think that you should be ruled by a vote of seven unelected judges, or nine, or whatever?

00:08:43.580 Or should millions of people get to make these decisions together?

00:08:46.220 Joe Biden had something to say about that today.

00:08:49.020 There's so many fundamental rights that are affected by that.

00:08:52.900 And I'm not prepared to leave that to the whims and the public at the moment in local areas.

00:09:01.960 Well, some people like to be ruled, I guess.

00:09:05.240 I mean, I guess we have to be ruled in some way,

00:09:07.520 but I think the American way is a more democratic way, a grassroots way,

00:09:11.540 a way of checks and balances, not of kings and tyrants.

00:09:15.360 I know that for two years, King Anthony Fauci had his way,

00:09:19.100 but I note that the Supreme Court struck down many of those fiats and orders for that very same reason.

00:09:24.620 You just simply can't cook up a law on your own, whether you're a judge or a bureaucrat.

00:09:30.060 There are rules.

00:09:31.180 There is democracy.

00:09:32.140 It's a republic.

00:09:33.000 If you believe in an abortion law, one that bans abortion, one that limits abortion, one that permits abortion, whatever,

00:09:40.340 at least do it according to your system and according to the law, according to the Constitution.

00:09:43.480 Of course, here in Canada, we don't have as much democracy as they have in America.

00:09:47.820 Let me read from the very end of this ruling.

00:09:52.800 We end this opinion where we began.

00:09:54.820 Abortion presents a profound moral question.

00:09:57.480 The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each state from regulating or prohibiting abortion.

00:10:02.880 Roe and Casey arrogated that authority.

00:10:05.120 We now overrule these decisions to return the authority to the people and their elected representatives.

00:10:10.620 There you go.

00:10:11.420 So it's not an abortion ban.

00:10:12.940 I wonder how many people think there is or think there will be if this draft ruling is ever actually issued.

00:10:23.220 People are just going nuts, though.

00:10:25.820 Here's and for good reason.

00:10:29.100 But but don't forget that it started with a crime.

00:10:31.620 Let me read from the chief justice.

00:10:33.020 He he issued this statement today.

00:10:35.700 He said he's going to get police to investigate the leak.

00:10:39.860 But I'm going to make a prediction right now.

00:10:41.300 The leaker will reveal himself before he's caught.

00:10:44.160 I'm guessing that the leaker is a clerk to a left wing judge.

00:10:47.500 I'm guessing that within hours he will have a GoFundMe crowdfund that will raise millions of dollars for him from every pro abortion activist in the country who now thinks of him as their hero.

00:10:57.200 I think he'll be given the best Democratic Party lawyers around.

00:11:00.280 I don't think he's going to be banished or denounced.

00:11:02.280 I think he'll do the opposite.

00:11:03.080 I think he'll do the talk show circuit.

00:11:05.940 He'll do the law school circuit.

00:11:08.540 He'll be a millionaire, a hero.

00:11:11.420 Biden has said he'll immediately call for a law doing what Roe v.

00:11:15.560 Wade did.

00:11:17.660 But not every Democrat supports that, or at least not every Democrat supports how that would have to be forced through the system.

00:11:24.660 I mean, two conservative-leaning Democrats have already said they won't go along with this procedural sledgehammer required to do that.

00:11:31.200 Joe Manchin, a senator from West Virginia, that's the most conservative state in America, but he's a Democrat.

00:11:38.420 He's a fit for the state.

00:11:39.820 Even if New York and D.C. agree with them, that's America for you.

00:11:44.040 Fifty states, they get to make up their minds.

00:11:46.180 Other states think abortion is a sacrament.

00:11:49.920 I mean, look at this story.

00:11:50.760 Breaking Newsom lawmakers say California Constitution should explicitly protect abortion rights.

00:11:57.260 They're pitching a constitutional amendment on the November ballot.

00:12:00.700 Now, I don't know if that will work.

00:12:01.940 I think Newsom might be mistaking woke opinion for general public opinion.

00:12:05.860 I'm not sure, for example, that abortion is quite as loved by, say, the Latino community, who are generally more Catholic.

00:12:12.080 But again, that's really what the court was saying here.

00:12:15.420 Each state can make up their own rules that fits with their own state.

00:12:20.160 So that's the substance of the ruling.

00:12:22.020 But what about the politics of it?

00:12:24.720 Well, within hours, protesters started to surround the Supreme Court itself.

00:12:29.500 To protest, sure, but I think there's more than a whiff of menace about it.

00:12:32.860 I mean, when Trump's supporters all came to the Capitol, it was called an insurrection.

00:12:39.860 But Trump was evil in the eyes of the media.

00:12:42.200 What will the media call this public uprising?

00:12:45.500 And what will they say if it gets violent, as so many left-wing protests have in the past?

00:12:50.940 I mean, look at this.

00:12:51.580 This is stunning.

00:12:52.420 This is a Democrat running for attorney general, the top law enforcement man in Florida.

00:12:57.960 He says, it's time for a revolution.

00:13:00.260 Oh, really?

00:13:00.660 Hey, here's a top Democrat.

00:13:02.920 You probably recognize the name, Maria Shriver.

00:13:05.460 She says, but here we are.

00:13:06.660 So you say you want a revolution?

00:13:09.140 Well, we have one here right now.

00:13:11.820 There's some weirdness, too.

00:13:12.880 Look at this New York Times contributor here, Amanda Duarte. 0.96

00:13:15.060 Look what she says. 1.00

00:13:15.740 She says, I do wonder how these white supremacist lawmakers would feel if their little white daughters were raped and impregnated by black men. 1.00

00:13:27.620 Holy moly. 1.00

00:13:28.660 Holy moly. 0.98

00:13:30.240 Sister, I think you might be the racist. 1.00

00:13:32.380 Are you saying that the judges are racist?

00:13:35.020 Who?

00:13:36.260 Clarence Thomas?

00:13:37.620 Is he the racist one here?

00:13:40.160 How weird is that?

00:13:40.960 That's his wife, Ginny Thomas. 0.78

00:13:43.220 You know, the left used to love the court when it did political favors for them.

00:13:47.200 Now they hate it when it undoes their politics.

00:13:49.300 By the way, that may well be Trump's greatest legacy in addition to the Middle East peace.

00:13:53.600 He appointed a number of those judges.

00:13:56.800 Watch for the Democrats to try to emasculate the court to undermine its morality, to pack it with more judges.

00:14:03.260 It's going to be a big battle.

00:14:04.400 And I'm jealous of that battle.

00:14:08.060 At least Americans are allowed to debate these things in the media, in the courts, now in the legislatures.

00:14:14.100 Good for Gavin Newsom.

00:14:15.780 At least he's being democratic about it.

00:14:17.540 Now, some are going to win those arguments or some are going to lose those arguments.

00:14:20.460 I think it will be different in different states.

00:14:23.160 West Virginia is going to be different than Massachusetts.

00:14:25.500 But everyone in America will know that they have the chance to be heard and to try to convince their neighbors of their point of view.

00:14:31.820 That's what democracy looks like.

00:14:33.580 We are not allowed those rights here in Canada.

00:14:36.300 Not in the courts.

00:14:37.200 Not in the media.

00:14:37.900 Not in our legislatures.

00:14:38.980 It's an artificial unanimity up here.

00:14:43.620 Look at this.

00:14:44.340 In a memo to conservative MPs, Candace Bergen's office instructed MPs that the party would not comment on the leaked U.S. court decision that could overturn abortion rights in that country.

00:14:54.500 Oh, okay.

00:14:54.960 Got it.

00:14:55.860 By the way, Canada's current legal position is far more extreme than Roe v. Wade, which says that abortion is legal until the fetus becomes viable.

00:15:06.080 In Canada, I'm not sure if you know this, but abortion is legal at any moment from conception until birth for any reason or no reason.

00:15:13.280 You could abort a baby girl if you don't like girls. 0.98

00:15:16.260 It's funded by the government even.

00:15:19.120 And that's the conservative party's position, too.

00:15:21.880 Identical to the liberals and the NDP.

00:15:23.880 Joe Biden doesn't believe in that.

00:15:25.660 He's not that extreme.

00:15:27.340 But you have to laugh.

00:15:29.660 The people who just spent two years telling you that you have no privacy about your medical decisions, medical procedures, are now saying women should have privacy about their medical procedures.

00:15:39.840 People who spent two years telling you you had to submit to political decisions about your body are now saying that that's immoral.

00:15:47.620 The people who say there's no such thing as a woman now say there very much is such thing as a woman and that men should shut up.

00:15:56.480 Really.

00:15:58.340 Stay with us.

00:16:00.040 We'll talk to our favorite U.S. lawyer about this thing.

00:16:02.120 Welcome back.

00:16:14.620 Well, holy cow, what a big issue.

00:16:17.020 I mean, abortion is really the keystone issue for Democrats in the United States and for liberals and new Democrats in Canada.

00:16:24.900 It is an essential, it's almost a sacrament.

00:16:28.200 Funny enough, according to the ruling itself, in every state of the union, abortion was criminalized just 100 years ago.

00:16:36.700 Different states had different approaches until Roe v. Wade dealt with it all from a federal level.

00:16:42.460 This is a shock to the political class in America where lockdowns and inflation and Ukraine, there were a lot of issues. 0.77

00:16:50.720 I think this is going to be what the Dems want to campaign on.

00:16:54.820 Here's our friend Janine Yunus on Twitter today.

00:16:56.860 She says, if this draft decision turns out to be the real decision, there is now a real chance Republicans will not sweep the midterms as they undoubtedly would have.

00:17:08.120 They may even lose.

00:17:09.740 This means that Democrats will believe that they can implement COVID restrictions with no consequences.

00:17:14.980 Janine Yunus joins us now via Skype from the headquarters of the new Civil Liberties Alliance, where she's a lawyer.

00:17:21.580 Great to see you again, Janine.

00:17:23.100 Great to see you too, Ezra.

00:17:24.440 You know, it's funny.

00:17:26.160 I bet there's a lot of overlap between people who today are saying, my body, my choice, keep your laws off my body,

00:17:32.620 and people who 10 minutes ago were for mask mandates and vax mandates, people who now are talking about privacy,

00:17:40.860 who demanded that every American and Canadian reveal their personal health choices to clerks and doormen.

00:17:49.400 I tell you, I'm dizzy from the acrobatics.

00:17:55.220 What do you make of this?

00:17:58.260 Well, yeah, it's the sort of hypocrisy I've been talking about the entire time.

00:18:01.740 And the only thing I disagree with your statement there was until 10 minutes ago,

00:18:05.460 I think these people are still pro-mask mandate and pro-vaccine mandate.

00:18:09.420 I don't think they've changed at all, or I don't think they're willing to recognize the hypocrisy of their position.

00:18:14.780 And actually, one really interesting thing I think is worth pointing out is, I mean, the vaccine has,

00:18:20.200 COVID vaccine has not been tested.

00:18:21.860 There have been no randomized controlled studies conducted on pregnant women,

00:18:25.300 and yet these people were fine with mandating vaccines for pregnant women,

00:18:28.260 but now all of a sudden they care about a pregnant women's right to choose. 0.97

00:18:32.320 And, you know, I should make clear, I actually, you know, I'm probably in the anti-mandate camp.

00:18:38.080 I'm a rare person who is actually pro-choice philosophically speaking.

00:18:42.540 I don't think Roe v. Wade was a legally sound decision.

00:18:44.940 So this doesn't bother me that much.

00:18:47.120 And again, this is assuming that this is the real decision.

00:18:50.600 We don't actually know.

00:18:51.500 So this is an unprecedented leak, and it may not end up being the decision that comes down from the court.

00:18:58.360 Yeah, it was dated in February, which is interesting because I guess I never really thought carefully

00:19:03.460 about how these decisions are crafted and how there's a back and forth amongst the judges and their clerks.

00:19:10.420 This may be the first time that a leak like this, at least in modern times, has happened.

00:19:14.720 And it feels a little bit like a political operation designed to switch the conversation nationally,

00:19:23.620 designed to undermine political support for the Supreme Court,

00:19:27.040 maybe to set the stage for Joe Biden to pack the court.

00:19:30.180 I don't know.

00:19:30.500 It feels like it's a challenge to the court itself.

00:19:34.340 I mean, the chief justice today says he's going to hire marshals to look into the leak.

00:19:38.420 Boy, I hope it didn't come from an actual judge.

00:19:41.460 Hopefully it was just a clerk, but that would be quite something.

00:19:43.740 What do you make of the move to break the—I mean, listen, it was interesting to me that Justice Scalia

00:19:51.620 and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who were so opposite ideologically, had a genuine friendship during their whole—

00:19:59.840 like, I think there is a collegiality on that court despite ideological differences.

00:20:05.120 This feels like that was smashed a bit today.

00:20:08.000 Yeah, well, I think times have changed, too, since then.

00:20:10.820 But I suspect it was a clerk, and I think there are two interpretations.

00:20:14.500 One is that it's a pro-choice clerk who saw themselves as sort of a hero for breaking this

00:20:21.040 and possibly being able to change the course of things by doing so or getting, you know, Democrats very riled up about it.

00:20:27.840 The other interpretation is it's a right-wing clerk who sought to sort of solidify the decision by leaving it.

00:20:34.780 I tend to think it's probably the first one, and that's just sort of what my gut tells me.

00:20:38.980 I might be wrong.

00:20:40.500 And it could be entirely different.

00:20:42.840 I would be really surprised if it was a judge, really surprised.

00:20:46.000 Yeah, well, I hope that's not the case.

00:20:47.500 That would—I mean, there's a lot of institutions that have debased themselves over the last two years.

00:20:53.200 The Supreme Court, I think, has actually conducted itself fairly admirably.

00:20:58.620 I think both sides of the aisle might say that.

00:21:01.720 If it were a judge, God forbid, I think that would shatter a lot of trust in the institution.

00:21:07.740 Now, I see immediately that the deep blue states, California, for example, they're saying, well, they're going to fill the gap right away.

00:21:13.840 I think that's true.

00:21:14.580 I think Gavin Newsom, he mentioned that he wanted to make a ballot initiative.

00:21:17.460 I wouldn't be surprised if in the blue states those pass handily.

00:21:23.240 And, I mean, what I read from this ruling is the judges are saying, sorry, we can't do this.

00:21:28.840 We don't have the power to do this.

00:21:30.840 We have to be on guard for our own ideological enthusiasms.

00:21:35.240 Let the states and their people do this.

00:21:38.960 And Gavin Newsom of California is saying, yeah, we'll do it.

00:21:41.520 That's sort of how it's supposed to work under the Constitution, isn't it?

00:21:44.380 So if you had all the blue states saying, we're going to do this, and you have the red states saying, well, we're not going to do it or we're going to limit it in this way, 50 different states, 50 different approaches, I think that's the American way?

00:21:55.220 I think so.

00:21:55.960 And that's one reason that even though, as I said, I'm philosophically pro-choice, I'm not upset by this at all if it turns out to be the real decision.

00:22:01.740 I actually think I've always disagreed with Roe v. Wade's legal reasoning.

00:22:06.700 I don't think it's very sound.

00:22:07.940 I mean, essentially, Roe v. Wade said that there's a right to privacy in the Constitution that recognizes the right to abortion, even though it's not enumerated.

00:22:16.260 And I just can't get on board with that.

00:22:18.580 Now, I do agree with that in certain other contexts.

00:22:21.120 So I don't know if you guys have anything similar, but we have what are called unenumerated rights.

00:22:26.060 They're considered so fundamental that the Constitution doesn't explicitly mention them, but we understand them to exist, such as the right to parent your own child.

00:22:32.920 Now, if a state came down with the law and said, we can take your kids away anytime if we think it's in their best interest, I think most people would agree, well, the Constitution doesn't allow that.

00:22:42.980 But that's sort of fundamentally different from abortion, which is controversial, has always been controversial, hasn't even been historically, has been conducted in certain ways, hasn't always been possible in a safe way.

00:22:54.560 So I think to read that into the Constitution in the same way, for example, the right to parent your own children is just not—it's not really honest.

00:23:05.180 And so, yeah, it's a political—it's really a political thing.

00:23:09.140 Their decision was political.

00:23:10.300 And so I actually don't think overturning it is the worst thing.

00:23:13.120 Yeah.

00:23:13.440 I learned a lot from the ruling.

00:23:14.960 I mean, it was a lot of history about the history of abortion and the law.

00:23:18.320 And I think the reason why Justice Alito went to such lengths is that these discovering new freedoms tucked away in the Constitution that were not enumerated—you mentioned the right to parent your own kids.

00:23:31.960 It has to be so open and so obvious and so historically, you know, like the backdrop to our lives that no one could possibly for a second say, hey, you're trying to smuggle in your own agenda.

00:23:47.680 Something so obvious we didn't bother to mention it because, of course, that's the way it is.

00:23:52.040 And I think—I mean, what struck me by the depth of historical, you know, well, here's what happened with the law of abortion, here's how abortion is being treated historically, I think that was the justice's way of saying, look, this is not one of those super obvious things that, you know, was too obvious to put into print.

00:24:09.260 This is a very novel thing, and it should be left to legislators in the states.

00:24:13.520 I don't know if anyone is taking that nuanced position other than you.

00:24:17.100 I mean, the Democrats—I mean, I'm just sitting here, I just got an email from the ACLU.

00:24:21.280 I guess I'm on their list.

00:24:22.680 They're fundraising.

00:24:24.000 They're very excited.

00:24:24.820 They're going to make a mint off this, and the Democrats finally are changing the subject from the price of gas or from, you know, supply chain issues.

00:24:33.340 I think a lot of people are getting their itches scratched.

00:24:35.980 They're happy to be back on this turf again politically.

00:24:39.220 Yeah, I agree.

00:24:40.260 And, I mean, one thing that worries me, as I said in the tweets, is that, you know, a lot of people—this is a very important issue to a lot of people.

00:24:46.860 A lot of libertarians and a lot of moderate Democrats and even moderate Republicans who I think were very sick of the COVID restrictions, did not want their kids in masks, didn't want to be forced to take vaccines, and were ready to vote Republican.

00:24:58.820 And now maybe we'll think twice.

00:25:00.520 So that's the way in which I see this could be a problem.

00:25:05.820 Yeah, I think you could be right.

00:25:07.400 This will definitely be emphasized.

00:25:10.120 I mean, the media is going wall-to-wall on this, as you would think, because it really is a stunning thing to have someone within the close circle.

00:25:17.260 It's almost like the Vatican.

00:25:19.440 It's almost like a conclave of the cardinals, and someone leaked, you know, the vote for the new pope or something.

00:25:26.140 I mean, that's how it looks from the outside.

00:25:31.400 What's interesting is that there are some states that are very much against abortion.

00:25:38.340 I think the—I saw a clip from Joe Biden saying this is too important to be left to the public.

00:25:43.740 Well, there's different publics in different places.

00:25:45.640 I mean, I think there are some states—West Virginia, where Joe Manchin's from, where pro-life is the view of the people, and others like San Francisco, most of California.

00:25:57.800 It'll be interesting to me.

00:25:58.780 I think people who want abortion restrictions will get them, and people who don't won't get them, and who knows?

00:26:08.040 I mean, I think you're going to see a race to fill the gap.

00:26:12.460 I wonder if this will still be a hot issue in November if all the blue states go ahead and enact their own rules.

00:26:20.240 Oh, I think it will be.

00:26:21.380 I mean, it's such—people feel so strongly about it, so I think it will continue to be an issue.

00:26:26.480 I think that Democrats will still be upset if it's illegal in red states, and the red states will be upset that the Democrats are allowing it.

00:26:34.640 I don't actually think this issue is really going to go away, but I do think that this is the best possible solution to it.

00:26:40.300 And another very interesting thing about it is that the court very, very, very rarely explicitly overrules precedent, and it did so here.

00:26:47.720 It said, we are overruling Roe v. Wade.

00:26:49.540 We think it was wrong, and in very sort of scathing terms, which I haven't seen before, actually.

00:26:55.860 I mean, the closest example is Plessy v. Ferguson that was overruled in Brown v. Board of Education about segregation in schools.

00:27:03.800 But that, you know, other than that, the sort of explicit and scathing overruling is really rare.

00:27:11.780 Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:27:13.400 I tell you, one thing I can say about your American Supreme Court, in which it's much superior to our own Canadian Supreme Court, is the clarity of the writing.

00:27:22.200 And, I mean, your judges are intelligent, and those clerks are the best of the best in America.

00:27:25.660 I mean, if you're a Supreme Court justice clerk, you are truly a star.

00:27:30.420 And the clarity, I mean, maybe, and I say this not just for the judges I agree with.

00:27:35.240 I mean, reading those court cases is typically a pleasure.

00:27:39.100 In Canada, I mean, it's not as bad as it used to be, but you might have a 300-page ruling in dissents from the dissents, and it's just so bloody complicated and abstruse.

00:27:48.880 You know, so many U.S. Supreme Court rulings are actually a pleasure to read and accessible to the layman, I think.

00:27:59.240 I think it would be a bloody shame if the Supreme Court was smashed over this.

00:28:06.140 I see crowds gathering.

00:28:07.960 I see security barricades going up around the Supreme Court.

00:28:11.200 I think this was, as you suggest, likely an attempt to pressure the judges to, you know, maybe some of the wobbly judges not to do this.

00:28:21.600 I'm sure there will be death threats.

00:28:22.860 I'm sure there already have been.

00:28:24.780 How does this square with the talk of the January 6th, oh, my God, Donald Trump wanted an insurrection.

00:28:31.520 Oh, my God, they were charging the buildings.

00:28:34.100 I think now you're going to see, if not violence on the left, you're going to see tremendous public pressure and threats from the left targeting judges.

00:28:44.660 I'm actually worried there's going to be violence.

00:28:47.580 Yeah, I mean, that very well could be.

00:28:49.500 And it's indicative of sort of an increasing political divide and hostility.

00:28:53.860 I mean, you mentioned this friendship between Scalia and Ginsburg, which was famous.

00:28:58.080 And the toxic political divide in this country is just it's becoming more and more of a problem.

00:29:03.840 I mean, as you know, I've lost most of my friends.

00:29:07.600 I really have almost no friends from before COVID because they disagree with me about my views on this.

00:29:12.820 And there's just no there's no understanding that people could view these issues differently, that it could be reasonable.

00:29:19.200 I mean, look, I said to a couple of my friends today who are very upset about the decision.

00:29:24.140 Reasonable minds can differ.

00:29:25.380 I understand why you feel that way.

00:29:26.680 I don't feel that way because this is how I see it.

00:29:29.220 But most people don't seem capable of doing that anymore.

00:29:31.880 It's all very personal.

00:29:33.020 And you're a bad person if you don't see things the way that I do.

00:29:35.960 So, yeah, violence could very well be the result.

00:29:41.080 You know, and I mean, I hate to say that and I'm not I'm not lusting for that in any way.

00:29:44.480 I'm actually genuinely worried about it.

00:29:46.980 I think that, you know, I look at the footage of the January 6th insurrection.

00:29:51.300 A friend of mine calls it the great meandering.

00:29:53.280 You had sort of that guy with the moose hat or whatever just sort of wandering around and some people put their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk.

00:30:01.160 It was more, oh, we're in here.

00:30:02.960 It didn't feel like a burn the place down riot.

00:30:05.840 I'm not minimizing it.

00:30:06.940 But I'm just saying I think that if violence comes on this issue, there will actually be flames and smashing.

00:30:13.720 And I don't know.

00:30:14.660 I think that that would serve the interests of a political class that wants to shift the topic of conversation.

00:30:23.000 It is funny, though, that one of the questions that the the newest Supreme Court justice was asked in her confirmation is, what is a woman?

00:30:31.860 And her answer was, well, I'm not a biologist.

00:30:35.440 All of a sudden, there's some some clarity about what a woman is.

00:30:39.040 And by the way, if you're not a woman, you're not really allowed to have an opinion on this subject.

00:30:43.040 Yeah, I made a joke about that on Twitter, actually, because, you know, there's been all this.

00:30:49.440 These quips about how women aren't the only ones who can get pregnant and blah, blah, blah.

00:30:56.360 So or, you know, whatever, all this confusion over the trans stuff.

00:31:01.660 So, yeah, I made a joke about how this it's offensive to call this a women's issue since trans women can't get pregnant and some trans men can. 0.85

00:31:10.140 So now I think all of a sudden the left is realizing there actually is something that gender does mean something or biological sex.

00:31:18.240 You know, I mean, when these issues are taken away from the public square before the debate is fully hashed out,

00:31:24.120 I think there's some pent up emotions and intellectual arguments.

00:31:29.300 I mean, for for a generation or two, everything was frozen because of this precedent in Canada.

00:31:36.500 Again, it was decided it was a tie vote in the Canadian Senate.

00:31:40.300 And so the abortion law failed and there is no abortion law in Canada whatsoever because it ended in a tie vote.

00:31:49.200 And the law was struck down by the Supreme Court.

00:31:53.520 It went back to the Senate, the legislature, it ended on a tie vote and it's never been brought up again.

00:32:00.480 I think people want to talk about them.

00:32:02.360 I think people can accept rules and laws that they disagree with if they feel like they're heard, if they have a way to influence the world.

00:32:11.340 That way, if they lose the debate, they know that maybe they weren't convincing enough.

00:32:16.540 If it wasn't it wasn't a stitch up, it wasn't an inside job.

00:32:20.560 I think that in some ways this could be a healthy thing.

00:32:23.580 If 50 states allow a rollicking debate on this, allow people to say their will and let people shape their own laws, shape their own states and their own world.

00:32:35.540 I just think that's morally superior than having seven men in Roe v. Wade invent a constitutional right that maybe hadn't ever been conceived of before.

00:32:44.880 I don't know. I think this is a healthy thing.

00:32:47.000 It's going to be a disaster in the short term politically.

00:32:50.400 But I don't know. I can't help but thinking this is the American system working yet again where our own Canadian system fails.

00:32:56.660 Last word to you, Janine.

00:32:57.540 Well, yeah, I agree with that as well.

00:33:01.060 And I actually think, you know, this sort of comes back to a lot of the COVID stuff where it was agencies making these decisions, agencies using their power in abusive ways, which they really weren't granted by Congress.

00:33:12.600 And people felt, you know, they were left out of the process.

00:33:15.340 Why is this, you know, a governor, a mayor or an agency saying that I have to wear a mask forever and ever, my kid has to wear a mask forever and ever, we all have to get vaccines when I don't have any part of this process.

00:33:26.780 This isn't my elected official.

00:33:28.380 And so I think you're right.

00:33:29.200 And it all goes back.

00:33:30.160 It all goes back to the same issue there.

00:33:32.820 Yeah.

00:33:33.240 Well, listen, it's great to see you.

00:33:34.660 And I know that this isn't really the core of your work.

00:33:37.120 You've been fighting for freedom on vaccine lockdowns and mandate issues.

00:33:41.660 But I enjoyed your take on Twitter.

00:33:43.680 It's great to see you again.

00:33:44.540 And you guys are one of the true civil liberties groups left in America.

00:33:47.920 For folks who don't know, it's called the NCLA, New Civil Liberties Alliance.

00:33:51.900 And, Janine, you fight for freedom every day.

00:33:53.280 It's great to see you again.

00:33:54.600 Thank you so much.

00:33:55.780 All right.

00:33:56.260 All the best.

00:33:56.780 There she is, Janine Yunus.

00:33:58.260 Stay with us.

00:33:58.840 More ahead.

00:34:10.780 Hey, welcome back.

00:34:11.720 Your letters to me.

00:34:12.460 Fred Kaye says, such a fine representative of the woke left, they're so confident until 1.00

00:34:18.180 they're challenged on the stupid things they say. 1.00

00:34:20.360 Then they panic and throw a temper tantrum. 1.00

00:34:22.880 Laugh out loud.

00:34:23.460 Thanks so much for the entertainment.

00:34:24.700 You're talking about David Menzies interviewing that lady.

00:34:27.780 I think she was.

00:34:28.540 I think that was a witch's hat.

00:34:30.960 I think it was a witch's hat with a flower in it, which is a nice springtime touch.

00:34:35.240 But who was that?

00:34:37.860 I don't know.

00:34:39.560 Billy98 says, CBC is more than misinformation hoaxing.

00:34:43.320 It is real hate speech.

00:34:44.800 Oh, and those cartoons I showed you yesterday from the Hamilton Spectator.

00:34:48.260 Just crazy.

00:34:49.520 You know, I'll never forget the front page of the Toronto Star, though, when they put

00:34:52.520 up all those hate messages against the unvaxxed.

00:34:55.480 I mean, never give the left the moral authority.

00:34:58.420 Never grant them, you know, that they're morally better than you.

00:35:03.240 They're not.

00:35:03.660 In fact, they're immoral.

00:35:04.780 You know, it took me a while to realize that accusing the left of hypocrisy, and that's

00:35:09.140 what I did in my monologue. 0.97

00:35:10.160 I said, look, these hypocrites just spent two years saying you don't have the right to 0.98

00:35:14.920 bodily autonomy, and now they're all for bodily autonomy. 0.99

00:35:17.660 Ha ha, I caught you in hypocrisy. 0.62

00:35:19.140 They don't care about hypocrisy.

00:35:20.820 You know, if a double standard, accusing someone of double standards only hurts the feelings

00:35:27.620 of someone who believes in standards, the hardcore left will do anything, say anything,

00:35:32.700 climb over any dead body, metaphorically speaking, to get their way.

00:35:37.400 So pointing out their hypocrisy, it's a good point, but they don't care about that. 0.99

00:35:42.700 They know they're hypocrites. 0.97

00:35:45.560 They just care about any ends justifying the means. 0.95

00:35:49.420 Turn the end justifying any means.

00:35:52.720 Someone nicknamed Angry Atheist says, here's a good question. 1.00

00:35:55.940 Would Ezra Levant ever considering hiring an ex-employee from the CBC?

00:36:00.080 Well, I would, and I did.

00:36:02.660 In fact, we had a young lady join us the other day who comes from the CBC, and we had someone

00:36:07.120 else that we hired a few months back, and they accepted, and then they got another offer

00:36:13.380 elsewhere.

00:36:16.120 Yeah, and I, you know, if someone's from the CBC, obviously we're going to ask questions

00:36:20.900 about their worldview and about their approach to journalism.

00:36:29.240 We have some employees that come from unusual backgrounds, and just last night actually I

00:36:35.960 came to terms with a very interesting person from public life who I'm not, he needs some

00:36:43.920 more time to tidy things up before we can announce him joining us.

00:36:47.080 But I think I would judge someone by the content of their character and their belief and their

00:36:53.300 own personal track record.

00:36:55.340 Just because someone was affiliated with the CBC doesn't mean that that's a deal breaker.

00:37:00.700 It certainly means we're going to be skeptical because, you know, if you're working for the

00:37:04.260 state broadcaster, there's certain ideological and narrative requirements there.

00:37:10.040 Working for Rebel News is very opposite.

00:37:12.000 We're freedom-oriented and we don't take government money.

00:37:14.340 But the answer to your question is yes.

00:37:17.500 That's our show for today.

00:37:19.160 Until tomorrow, let me say goodbye and encourage you to keep fighting for freedom, but let me

00:37:23.640 invite you to watch this video by Andrew Chapados.

00:37:26.780 Would you trust a Justin Trudeau disinformation board?

00:37:32.580 I'll leave you with that video.

00:37:33.380 See you tomorrow.

00:37:33.820 Bye-bye.

00:37:34.480 Hey, guys.

00:37:35.120 Andrew here.

00:37:35.620 We're at the Yorkville Royal Sinesta waiting for Justin Trudeau to arrive.

00:37:38.880 If you want to ask him about the disinformation board, the Department of Homeland Security

00:37:43.300 developed in the United States, and if he agrees with that, we'll see if we can get a question

00:37:47.440 in.

00:37:47.960 So today we're just asking people about they just started a disinformation governance board

00:37:52.040 in the United States government.

00:37:53.600 So the government's going to determine what's disinformation online.

00:37:56.780 Would you support something like that in Canada?

00:37:59.080 It's scary.

00:38:00.300 I understand what they're doing, but it's scary to give them a power to do that.

00:38:04.780 How do you feel about that?

00:38:05.520 I feel the same way.

00:38:06.840 I don't want the government telling me what's disinformation or not.

00:38:09.980 I don't trust them, to be honest, quite frankly.

00:38:13.120 I don't think so.

00:38:14.360 Why not?

00:38:17.820 I personally don't have some opinion about that, so probably you can interview someone

00:38:21.540 else.

00:38:22.300 Oh, you said you don't agree with it, though.

00:38:24.220 It's okay.

00:38:24.720 You can tell me.

00:38:29.240 You don't trust the government to decide?

00:38:32.180 No, I don't think so.

00:38:33.280 Yeah, given a lot of chaotic situations, I think it's better for people to make our own

00:38:38.680 decisions instead of just having a unionized voice.

00:38:42.480 For sure.

00:38:43.380 If you've got $800, you can go inside tonight just to let you know.

00:38:47.720 Oh, that's fine.

00:38:48.600 So you're okay with the government deciding what's misinformation online and what it's

00:38:51.860 not, and potentially fining people for posting something they deem as misinformation?

00:38:55.460 No, so the government wouldn't, that's what I was saying.

00:38:57.880 There needs to be a private-public collaboration when it comes to something like this, because

00:39:03.240 again, unfortunately those in power, the lawmakers in power, don't have an idea of how technology

00:39:10.880 works and misinformation.

00:39:12.080 And like, you know, like you can't have like the watchman sort of watching over that, right?

00:39:16.900 Because then that comes into like censorship and curving on free speech.

00:39:21.880 So, you know, it's an interesting challenge.

00:39:24.080 So that's why it needs to be probably like outside the purview of the government, like maybe

00:39:27.460 like, you know, have an independent board or something.

00:39:30.340 But yeah, I mean, the government cannot definitely have full autonomy over this.

00:39:33.540 No, unfortunately, I believe in free speech, period.

00:39:38.320 So you wouldn't want Justin Trudeau in charge or his people in charge of what's disinformation

00:39:42.840 online?

00:39:43.760 No.

00:39:44.780 Any other reasons why?

00:39:47.580 It's too much power within one organization, and I just don't trust that with any organization,

00:39:55.400 with any government.

00:39:56.480 I don't believe government has rights to do so.

00:39:59.420 I mean, people have rights to talk about what they believe to be true.

00:40:01.880 So no one's had a right to judge that if that's misinformation or not.

00:40:06.740 Like people choose to believe what they believe.

00:40:08.980 And it's like, like it's right of speech, free speech, right?

00:40:13.260 For sure.

00:40:13.780 Any other reason why you wouldn't want to, would it be just Justin Trudeau or any government

00:40:17.540 in general you wouldn't trust?

00:40:19.560 I say like every government in general, not just one particular, but everyone.

00:40:25.920 It depends.

00:40:26.420 So you're saying that the government is going to find these people?

00:40:29.100 Yeah, it's Homeland Security.

00:40:30.200 So that was established like 20 years ago under the Bush administration, I believe.

00:40:34.380 And they have a board now headed by one lady who's going to determine what's disinformation 1.00

00:40:38.620 online.

00:40:39.360 Yeah.

00:40:39.700 Well, absolutely.

00:40:40.560 I think that misinformation can be as harmful as anything else.

00:40:44.420 So, I mean, if the government has to take care of it, I mean, I'm fine.

00:40:48.200 I'm fine with it.

00:40:49.140 So do you see any problems with a bias coming from one government?

00:40:52.360 Let's say it was Donald Trump's government versus Justin Trudeau's government.

00:40:55.560 Do you think there would be a bias in either direction?

00:40:57.340 It will be.

00:40:59.060 I mean, no matter what, it doesn't, regardless of the platform that you post anything, if

00:41:04.400 they are going to be overlooking this kind of thing, there's going to be bias either way.

00:41:09.060 So I don't think there's an issue with that as long as, I mean, if it's an established institution

00:41:14.980 and it doesn't change every government, okay, so we mitigate the effects of the bias, but

00:41:21.120 I don't think there's an issue in overlooking what people post online.

00:41:25.280 It's just a matter of having a reliable and trustworthy institution taking care of it.

00:41:30.280 Okay.

00:41:30.580 Thanks a lot.

00:41:31.000 Anything else you want to add?

00:41:31.800 No.

00:41:32.240 That's it.

00:41:32.520 All right.

00:41:32.660 Have a great night.

00:41:33.240 All right.

00:41:34.020 I mean, what does that include?

00:41:35.220 Like, it's pretty vague right now what the definition of misinformation is, but it's

00:41:40.100 online misinformation is what they're saying that they want to combat.

00:41:45.020 Yeah.

00:41:45.480 I mean, I think there's a lot of dangers in that, right?

00:41:46.880 Like, how is it managed and who are the people managing it, right?

00:41:50.300 Like, uh, for the most part, no, I would say, I think it'd be a proponent of free speech,

00:41:56.640 but there's limits to that as well.

00:41:58.520 So I don't know.

00:41:59.940 So would you be afraid of there being a bias, whether it's a Trudeau government or Biden or

00:42:03.980 somebody else that maybe you or I don't agree with?

00:42:06.400 Do you think there'd be too much bias for the government to decide what's misinformation?

00:42:09.780 Yeah, of course.

00:42:10.400 I mean, of course, there's always going to be like, whoever's managing that is just going

00:42:13.340 to be a political bias.

00:42:14.040 Like, let's be honest.

00:42:15.140 Would you be surprised or not surprised if Justin Trudeau tried something like that?

00:42:19.180 I wouldn't be surprised at all.

00:42:21.020 Okay.

00:42:21.440 Any supporters of Justin Trudeau, do you want to say?

00:42:23.680 Do you think he would try to implement something like that?

00:42:25.960 I don't think he tried to implement something like that.

00:42:28.240 I don't think it would go over.

00:42:30.760 I think he'll test the waters to see if he thinks people will go for it, then he'll go for it.

00:42:37.560 $1,800 to get in there tonight if you guys are interested.

00:42:40.220 Okay, thank you.

00:42:42.300 Have a great day.

00:42:43.300 Thank you.

00:42:43.740 Thank you.

00:42:44.320 We're stopping all pedestrians right here. 0.96

00:42:46.920 Okay.

00:42:47.540 For the arrival.

00:42:48.560 For sure. 0.98

00:42:48.860 Yeah, I'll just scream and yell at you whatever you want. 0.97

00:42:51.540 Very cool.

00:42:52.840 But we're just going to stop everybody in this corner from like pedestrian stuff too.

00:42:55.980 All right.

00:42:56.520 We know you're not going to do anything to hurt someone, but we don't know about pedestrians.

00:42:59.840 Right.

00:43:00.220 We just have to stop everybody.

00:43:01.240 Oh, no problem.

00:43:01.940 So, just so you know.

00:43:03.080 For sure, thanks.

00:43:03.740 Sounds good.

00:43:04.020 Yeah.

00:43:04.920 Hey, guys.

00:43:05.540 Thanks for watching.

00:43:06.340 Unfortunately, we couldn't get a question into the Prime Minister.

00:43:08.500 It didn't come through the front entrance.

00:43:09.980 Kind of predictable.

00:43:11.080 Kind of sad from the RCMP that it's that predictable.

00:43:13.020 But in any event, we did get questions into people about the Disinformation Governance Board at Homeland Security

00:43:18.240 in the United States.

00:43:19.600 Thankfully, almost everybody we spoke to here in Canada doesn't want to see that.

00:43:23.760 They think there's too much bias and they don't trust the government to take care of their online content

00:43:28.220 and possibly find people.

00:43:29.840 Tell us what you guys think in the comments below.

00:43:31.440 We'll see you next time.

Rebel News Podcast - May 04, 2022

EZRA LEVANT ｜ A leaked document from the U.S. Supreme Court says that judges have overturned Roe v. Wade, the abortion ruling

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Summary

Transcript