EZRA LEVANT ｜ British journalist wrongfully detained under UK Terrorism law
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Summary
Another conservative British journalist is arrested and grilled for six hours by British terrorism police. What the heck is going on, and why is this happening under terrorism laws? Ezra Levenkamp explains why this is happening and why we should all be worried.
Transcript
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Hello, my friends. Crazy, dystopian show today. We talked for almost an hour with Callum Dara,
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who's a conservative journalist in the UK who was arrested, detained without charge,
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and grilled for hours by police about his politics. Just absolutely nuts, and it's all happening
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under terrorism laws. You got to hear this. Hey, before I get to that, I want to make sure that
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you know about Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of our podcast. I want you to see some of
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the videos I show in my conversation with Callum. To get the video version, just go to rebelnewsplus.com,
00:00:35.280
click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. Not only do you get all that video content,
00:00:39.580
you get the satisfaction of supporting Rebel News, because you know, without you, we really wouldn't
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have a source of income. Trudeau doesn't give us any money, not that we would ever take it,
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and YouTube has demonetized us, so please go to rebelnewsplus.com. One more thing, though. Hey,
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Tonight, another conservative British journalist is arrested and grilled for six hours by British
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terrorism police. What the heck is going on? It's January 31st, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
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I remember where I was on 9-11. I was absolutely shocked by it. I was terrified.
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Was that just the first two buildings knocked down in what was going to be a cataclysmic world war?
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Or what could we do to stop the terrorists? In the United States, they passed the Patriot Act.
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The United Kingdom has had a series of laws. One of them is called the Terrorism Act. And there's
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a provision in the Terrorism Act that I've come to know a little bit, because my friend Tommy
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Robinson was charged under it. I call it the ticking time bomb clause. That's just me who uses that
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nickname. And what it does is it allows police to arrest anyone at a port of entry into the UK.
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So it could be a railway station for the tunnel. It could be an airport. And to detain them without
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a search warrant. And to detain them in a way that is unique in British American Canadian law.
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That is, to compel them to answer questions. You can't say, I won't talk without my lawyer present.
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You can't say, I plead the fifth. That would be a U.S. phrase. You can't say, I have the right to remain
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silent. You specifically do not. Not only must you answer the questions, but you must give them
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access to your documents, including to the cell phone password on your phone, where so much of
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our lives are. Imagine if someone, especially police, especially police with some expertise in how to
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look, got you to give them the password to your phone. They could access everything from your family
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photos, to your group chats, to your browsing history. Getting access to your phone is getting
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access to your entire life, including perhaps your banking information, your GPS tracking.
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It is a terrifying law. If you look at it through the lens of 9-11, perhaps it makes sense.
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Imagine you arrest Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or some criminal mastermind who knows a bomb is about to go
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off in a matter of hours. You want to be able to press him for answers without him clamming up. I get it.
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But more and more, that law is used not for terrorists and not even where there's a pretense or a
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suspicion of terrorism, but rather simply to grill political and journalistic opponents of the
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prime minister. I say again, our friend Tommy Robinson is facing a prosecution under the Terrorism Act
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because when he was pulled over, he refused to give the password to his cell phone saying there
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were journalistic sources he wanted to protect from police, including young girls who had been raped
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as part of these British rape gangs, and they did not trust police with their identity. Well, this law is
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being abused more and more. I saw on X the other day that a journalist in the United Kingdom who
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is not as spicy as Tommy Robinson. He's more a travelogue journalist for interesting places. I've
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met him a couple times in the UK. He used to work for Sargon of a Cat on the Lotus Eaters, which is sort
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of an intellectual philosophical channel. He was pulled over at Gatwick Airport and questioned for six
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hours by police. And I thought, I can't interview Tommy about that because he's in prison, but let's bring
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aboard Callum Dara, who joins us now via Skype from the United Kingdom. Callum, great to see you again.
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Thanks for taking the time. No problem, man. It's good to see you again. Likewise. Did I properly
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describe the Terrorism Act? It has a lot of provisions, but this very powerful one lets police seize
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and question anyone, and you don't have the right to stay silent. It's so alien to our way of thinking.
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That's what happened to you. Why don't you tell our folks the story?
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Sure. I mean, you're absolutely on the money. Basically, I was arriving back from the United
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States off doing some filming there, and I got to these e-gates, which are a place where you can
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just scan your passport and a robot scans your face, and then if it matches, it lets you in
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because all the paperwork's been done before, right? I got to those, scan it as I usually do, and the thing
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fails. Do it again, and it fails. And I have met Tommy. I know his stories, and he's told me that's
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exactly what happens to him because he's on the personal interest list in the UK. So he can't use
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those gates because they just fail on him. So I wasn't that happy that that happened because then I look
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over at the desk where you've got to go normal immigration, where there's no e-gates, and behind it
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there's three people looking at me in plain clothes. I'm like, okay, this is gonna be fun.
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Go up to the desk, hand over my passport. The immigration officer scans it in his machine.
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It fails. He looks like something's gone wrong. And then they come up and say, we'll take it from
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here. Take my passport. Hello, Callum. You're detained under the Terrorism Act Section 3, and would you
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come this way, please? So then they take me into a side room, take my electronic devices off me, and demand
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my PIN codes. Like you said, I know, for example, Tommy's had this as well. And it's not just him,
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Lauren Southern, who is a Canadian visiting the UK. She had the same treatment. So it's not just
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British citizens this happens to. Foreigners are at risk as well. And they demanded the access.
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Lauren said no, so they deported her from the United Kingdom of Banda for life.
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Tommy said no, so they've charged her with the Terrorism Act. So I have enough trouble,
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because my job is traveling to interesting places. So I've got enough trouble getting those visas
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approved without having to explain a terrorism charge in the application. So I went, screw it.
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Yeah, here's the PINs. Enjoy. So they take all my electronic devices, scam me, take literally
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everything off me, and then explain to me that I'm detained. I have no right to remain silent,
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because that was my first question. What are my rights to remain silent? And they explained,
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there isn't one. Here's a pamphlet. I think I've got a pamphlet, in fact,
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let it give to you, and say, you can read through that if you want. And yeah, you don't have a right
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to remain silent. Which, as you say, the justification is that, well, if we're dealing
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with an imminent threat of terrorism, we need to get the information, we need to stop it,
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if it's in the next few hours or whatever, right? But that's not what was happening in my case.
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They wanted information, and that was the way to get it. So it matters not how it was intended.
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Let me ask the obvious question. I know the answer, but our viewers are probably thinking,
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well, you must have been up to something. I mean, why don't you just answer the question
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for me? Are you a terrorist? Do you hang out with terrorists? Are you chummy with terrorists? Have
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you, who are you that would cause them to pull you over using the terrorism law?
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So here's the steel man of their position, which would be the, I go to interesting places,
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like you mentioned. The first one I went to that was a big video that blew up was my trip to
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Afghanistan. And this was after the Taliban took over the country.
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So you're thinking, oh yeah, this guy would have met the Taliban, interviewed them,
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therefore he's on a list, gets interviewed, right? The thing is, that was like two years
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ago. And I came back from that trip and stood around in customs waiting for someone to come
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and tap on my shoulder, and they didn't. And I go, fine. So then I keep going to different
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places. I go to Russia, Kosovo, Transnistria, Zimbabwe, whatever. I just come back from the U.S.
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in El Salvador. And when they were interviewing me, when I brought up the different stamps on my
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passport, like after we explained the trip I'd just been on, they couldn't have cared less about
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Afghanistan, which was the fun part. Because I'm like, oh, you're kind of terrorism. You probably
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want to know if I want to join the jihad or whatever. And they're like, no, yeah, if you want
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to tell us about it, go ahead. Okay. I mean, one of the stories relevant to you guys in Canada is we ran
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to a checkpoint in Afghanistan. And I'm telling them this story, which is that I get pulled
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out. This Taliban guy is tapping me down. I speak some pasture to him. And then he starts
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blowing back paragraphs of pasture. I'm like, oh, crap. English, English. Sorry. Yeah. Oh,
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English. Points over some guy. English, English. Guy comes over. Hey, guys, how you doing?
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He's got a terrible AK. I'm like, that's that's not. Let me guess a Canadian convert.
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Yeah. He's a brown guy who I believe or presume was like a son of an immigrant and then went
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over to join the jihad in Afghanistan. And it was now running checkpoints in Kabul. And
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we're like, can we take pictures with you? Can we get your phone number to chat about
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like why you're here? He's like, oh, no, no, no. I've got to go back to Canada someday.
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Jeez. Well, you know what? I mean, Justin Trudeau would let him back in even if he was known.
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Let me ask you this. So you're thinking like that's the reason they would ask me, right? But
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when I told them that story, they couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan. The thing
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they were interested in was my time in Russia. And the other thing they were majorly interested
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in was my trip to the U.S. El Salvador and my views on the West and the United Kingdom.
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You know, that's so crazy. I mean, El Salvador, when I think of El Salvador,
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I'm old enough to remember about 40 plus years ago, there was a battle between El Salvador and
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Nicaragua. The Nicaragua, you know, there was the communist there, Daniel Ortega. That's 40 years
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ago. Today, El Salvador is one of the freest, safest countries in Central America. Nayib Bukele is a pro
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Bitcoin, pro freedom guy who's cracked down on the gangs. I'd love to go to El Salvador one day. I think
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it's sort of a political interest story, a turnaround story. So the fact that they want to know your views
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on that, I find perplexing because El Salvador is a great success in 2025. It's not the El Salvador of 40
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years ago. Can you tell us what they were asking you about that? And America, I mean, I was in
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America on Inauguration Day. It was an exhilarating time. I mean, I don't know your views on Trump. I
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presume you're sympathetic to him. Give me some of the questions that you were being asked by these
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counterterror cops. Sure. So when it came to the discussion, after I was told you've got no right
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to remain silent, take fingerprints, take pictures of your face from every angle, etc. They said I
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could speak to a lawyer, in fact, and then spoke to the lawyer that was free because I don't have a
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lawyer. So I called up the duty solicitor and they told me, what are you detained for? I told them the
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paragraph of the detained under us. I said, what do I do? And they're like, I don't know. What do you
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mean you don't know? Well, why are you detained? I don't know. Well, I don't know what to tell you.
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Well, it's just like the blind leading the blind. Yeah, it sounds very helpful. I should tell you
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that when Tommy was pulled over, his lawyer did assist and he said, I can't really do anything.
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I can't stop the questions and we can't stop the seizure of your electronics. So, you know,
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although it's sort of goofy to be given a phone call to a lawyer who knows nothing,
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if it makes you feel any better, Callum, even if you had the top lawyer in the UK,
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I don't think it would have stopped the humiliating and really unusual questioning.
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I just don't, that law is so powerful. It's sort of the British version of the Patriot Act, I think.
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Well, there's nothing they can do. So yeah, I don't blame the lawyer. It's just,
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it shows off the ridiculousness of the situation where even the lawyer is like,
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I mean, her advice directly was answer the questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess they will.
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Give me a couple of questions that they would put to you because I want to show the viewer
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that what has happened is that a law that was probably passed in good faith 20 plus years ago
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is now being weaponized against people who are critical of the state or unusual or perhaps
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somewhat eccentric in their politics. Tommy told me that when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act,
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they said immediately, oh, we know you're not a terrorist. We're just going to now pump you for
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questions about your politics, your street rallies, your journalism. Like they expressly said to him,
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oh, we know you're not a terrorist. We're just using that law translation. We're abusing that law.
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Tell me some of the specifics they asked you. Well, it was pretty much the same thing. It's like,
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we don't suspect you're engaged in anything. Well, why the hell am I detained then? But we don't need a
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reason to detain you. Great. So the conversation started with the trip I just did. And this was
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the one that we went into most detail, which is, okay, where did you leave the United Kingdom?
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Where did you go in the US? And I potted around. So I had to tell them, I started in the UK, got to
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Vegas, met these people, stayed for this long, did these things. Then I went to Miami and did these
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things. And then I went to El Salvador and back to Vegas and then somewhere else in the US.
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And the whole step of that way, like, how long did you stay in this place? Who did you meet in this
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place? What did you do in that place? So, I mean, I don't think the US is a breeding ground for Brits
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joining jihadism. So that's... Especially Vegas. That's where... That'll corrupt you.
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All the good jihadis go to Vegas. That's right.
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So that was odd. The time in El Salvador as well, what did they do? Who did I meet? In fact,
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they asked me before they searched the devices, do you have anything of journalistic interest
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that would risk a source if we uncovered it? I'm like, well, yes. The people I met in El
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Salvador. Because El Salvador, yeah, in all ways it's a success. There's some other side
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of that, which I'm going to release in the video upcoming. But so I'm explaining to them,
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yes, these things. And then when it gets to the questions, they're just like, well, who?
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Who'd you meet? I'm like, I've got the right to remain silent. So what am I meant to do
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Yeah. So if there was a confidential or legally protected or privileged source,
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and if you are compelled to answer, that's quite dangerous. What's the rule say about
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If you don't answer their questions, you're impeding the investigation. Therefore, you've
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committed a crime under the terrorist act. So you will be charged.
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So if you are a terrorist, they acknowledge you're not a terrorist. They ask you a question
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that would violate your journalistic ethics. And if you don't comply, then they'll deem
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you a terrorist. You're not a terrorist. Ab initio, they admit that. But if you don't
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do exactly what they say, that's the terrorism.
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That's how I presumed it was going to go. So I, you know, you can do your best to answer
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the question without answering it. But that's about as much as a defense have you got in
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And how long did they detain you? I've heard it's six hours that they have. Is that correct?
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And how long did they keep you under those six?
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So the legal limit is six. They kept me for four. So within the law, as much as the law
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Were you comfortable? Like, were you in a cell? Did they give you water or juice or something?
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Yeah. They put you in a small room with nothing on the walls and then off you water. So that's
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And how many of them were, and they were recording the whole thing, I presume?
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Yeah. So there's a recording device in the room that's shown to you. There were two people,
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a lady and a guy that looks like Louis Theroux interviewing me. I spoke to someone who works
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in legal stuff after all this. And he believes, or he told me, because I was asking when I was
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talking to the lawyer, I'm assuming that the whole thing's bugged. And he said, not only do I think
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And for the disclosure package, well, you could probably request that recording
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of yourself if you wanted it. I don't know if you would get it, but it might be worth doing.
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Hey, let me ask you a question. You've described some of the very interesting places you've been to.
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Yeah. And, um, you know, I mean, America and El Salvador are interesting, but they're not quite
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as dramatic as Afghanistan, uh, or, or Kosovo even. Did they delete anything? So for example,
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were you at risk of having your, like you had just done your, you're in the video business,
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you're a journalist, you're sort of a travel videographer. Did you detect that they deleted
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anything on your, on your videos? Um, tell me about that.
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So thankfully not in my case, I mean, we are dealing with the police here and anyone who's
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not naive knows that that's a possible risk. I mean, when you mentioned six hours is how long
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you're allowed to be detained. There was a lady who came over on the train. It was a French
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journalist. She was detained for 24 hours. So she sued the police and won because that's just,
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even within the scope of this law, that's highly illegal. So I knew that might happen.
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So they take my devices, the maximum legal limit they can keep it was seven days,
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which is annoying because that's my livelihood. That's a, that's a week that I'm screwed. I just
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can't do my work. So whatever. But I didn't say anything publicly for precisely that reason until
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I went to Gatwick, which is a four hour drive there, four hours back and had the devices in my
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hands with a check that it was on there. Because yeah, I mean, if you're in this situation,
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the advice I can give, which is what I will now do is have some online storage where you keep
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all of your footage from your work because yeah, they could just delete it. What are you going to
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do about it? Cry? Well, I, I find that this is the story of the UK. Um, I didn't really know much
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about the UK until Tommy Robinson came into the orbit of rebel news and he worked for us for a
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little bit. And I had a crash course in the weaponization of laws that were introduced for
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one purpose, but then mission creep extended them. I mean, I didn't know all the football laws,
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or as we call it over here, soccer, uh, that the police had the right to, you know,
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order you to be dispersed. You can be just sitting in a pub sober, doing nothing wrong. And a cop can
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say disperse now. And if you don't, you can be charged like that. And, and I don't know if these
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laws came about because of football hooliganism or because of other things, but all these powers
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that were for, for a limited acute purpose over the course of time are stretched and stretched beyond
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recognition and are weaponized and are used for political purposes. I mean, I was there when, I mean,
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speaking of our friend Tommy, again, when he was at a march against antisemitism, this is about a year
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ago. And, um, he came there as an ally of the Jews and as a journalist. And by the way, I was, I,
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I literally bumped into, it was the first time I saw Tommy in years. It was sheer, a sheer accident
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that I went into the same cafe that he was. We both got to the march early. I went into the cafe to get
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a bite and there's Tommy, like, what are the odds? Completely random encounter. And other Jews were
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there and they were delighted that Tommy was there because Jews in the UK don't have a lot of allies
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these days. And to have a working class journalist on their side, they were sort of delighted to have
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him there. And one left-wing Jew, Gideon Alter, I think is his name, said to the cops, he makes me
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uncomfortable. And the cops grabbed Tommy. There was like a dozen cops, handcuffed him, then pepper sprayed
00:21:04.400
him and marched him out. And he was banned from the city. He was literally exiled from London until he
00:21:10.720
fought his court case almost a year later. I tell you this story because every single aspect of that,
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the police can arrest you because someone else feels nervous. That they can exile you from a great city
00:21:22.900
for a year just because, without a hearing. All of those things probably started, there was probably
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a little kernel of, oh, here's a good idea. Here's a problem we need to solve. But now it's, it is
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close to a police state. And the only way I won't say that the UK is a police state is that it's done
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so selectively, 95% of the time, you wouldn't notice. You notice hard when people start tweeting
00:21:51.480
about the Southport stabbings and then pretty soon 100 people are charged for mean tweets. Like, I think
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the UK is in real jeopardy of becoming authoritarian. What do you think, Callum?
00:22:02.860
So a lot of people responded, and apparently this has become a quite common meme, which is to refer
00:22:07.920
to England as woke North Korea at this point from the American perspective. It's apt. I mean,
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you mentioned football. Did you know there are still blasphemy laws on the books in regards to
00:22:17.300
football rivalries? Because in Scotland, for example, you have Celtic versus Rangers, which turns into
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Protestant versus Catholic. Now, of course, you have these laws come in because they're like, oh, we need to
00:22:26.060
stop the violence between these two groups. But if you say F the Pope in a certain context,
00:22:31.340
yeah, it's a crime still in the UK. And this only ever goes one way when it gets to the level of
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police interference. I mean, you mentioned Tommy. I've mentioned Lauren Southern. This has happened
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to me now. Paul Golding is another one that comes to mind. I'm yet to find a significant left-wing
00:22:47.020
figure who's British, who's had the same treatment. It just doesn't seem to happen. And you're right.
00:22:52.760
I mean, the policing culture in this country, I mean, that phrase, woke North Korea, is probably
00:22:57.960
the right way to apply to it. If a single individual is seen to be causing offense,
00:23:04.180
the problem isn't that the person complaining needs to grow up. I mean, that's the American
00:23:09.040
perspective. It's like, yeah, other people disagree with you. Live with it. You child.
00:23:14.040
And even to their credit, the American police, for all the problems they've got,
00:23:16.980
they still have that cultural culture when it comes to policing, which is the freedom of
00:23:23.120
speech is sacrosanct, grow up. But when it comes to British policing, the culture is
00:23:28.480
that individual who's causing offense, that's a problem. And as soon as we remove him, everything's
00:23:33.580
perfect. But of course, all that ends up doing is meaning that the person who can claim offense
00:23:38.460
now has a weapon to get rid of their opponents. And the people who are able to use that weapon
00:23:44.340
effectively are a certain wing of British society and British politics. It's not the other side.
00:23:50.500
So no one who offends British right-wingers is ever going to be removed from the city of London.
00:23:55.860
And I can't explain how much of a big deal that is because that's basically the city.
00:24:01.100
We've only really got one. It's so centralized here.
00:24:03.520
Yeah. You know, you say right-wing, and that is part of it. That is a divide. But there's also
00:24:10.680
a class divide in the UK, working class versus for the fancy pants. And then there's also the racial
00:24:18.040
divide. And I think we saw all three of those at play recently in those horrific Southport stabbings.
00:24:23.920
And as part of the rape gang, grooming gang culture, you've got working class white girls,
00:24:29.840
and you've got primarily Pakistani Muslim men. And that's the perfect storm because you've got
00:24:36.200
the girls that, as Morrissey would say, they're nobody's nothing. You know, oh, they're just white
00:24:42.180
working class girls. They're not important. And then you've got this woke, protected by the woke,
00:24:48.000
you know, because they're immigrant Pakistani Muslims, visible minorities. And so that was all brushed
00:24:55.060
away, brushed aside, the rape gangs of Rotherham and other places. And when you had that inverted
00:25:02.660
during the riots after the Southport stabbings, Keir Starmer set up a around-the-clock 24-hour-a-day
00:25:09.840
prosecution for people who did mean tweets. He didn't set up around-the-clock prosecutions for
00:25:16.180
rape gangs or for other crimes. I just, I think there's a lot of axes in the UK where you have
00:25:23.940
two-tier, based on race, based on class, based on ideology. Am I wrong, Callum?
00:25:29.960
Well, I've got to be careful because I'm back in Britain. It was nice in the US. I finally could
00:25:35.080
say what I want online. But that phrase, two-tier, there was a recent leak from the Home Office
00:25:40.360
showing that the British state considers using the phrase two-tier policing as a sign of extremism.
00:25:50.340
Which is just such a, I mean, it's proving the point so obviously that if you claim there's
00:25:56.180
two-tier policing, you're a problem and we're going to shut you down.
00:26:00.660
Hopefully you're having a good time with this podcast, but I guarantee a better time would
00:26:05.400
be coming to Alaska with me, Drea Humphrey, and my other Rebel colleagues. You've got to
00:26:12.340
find out more at our special website, rebelnewscruise.com. But it's taking place June 18th to June 25th,
00:26:21.420
a vacation trip of a lifetime. Again, that's rebelnewscruise.com. I'll see you there.
00:26:28.000
You know, you've got this policing culture and you've got this, and then you layer on a total
00:26:37.620
panopticon of constant surveillance. You've got that surveillance state Orwellianism on top of it
00:26:44.760
of closed circuit TVs everywhere. And now, and this is a phrase no one outside the UK knows,
00:26:52.640
ULEZ. It stands for ultra low emission zones. It's basically 15 minute cities and cars are banned
00:27:00.160
between certain times. You've got all these ULEZ, ultra low emission zone cameras that are filming
00:27:07.140
your car if you're driving when you are on the wrong carbon date or whatever, or past your carbon
00:27:13.720
limit. You've got to pay a carbon tax. And it's, it's just, you know, there's no such thing as
00:27:19.920
privacy anymore. If your politics are wrong, you'll be debanked. They even did that to Nigel Farage.
00:27:26.360
And even other, even cabinet ministers, it turned out, were debanked. I really feel like the UK,
00:27:32.200
which was the crucible of our freedoms in Canada and America, I believe you guys are further down
00:27:38.120
the road to authoritarianism than either Canada or America. Even under Trudeau, we have not gone as,
00:27:43.980
as authoritarian as you guys. And you've just had 14 years of conservatives. You can't even put that
00:27:50.580
all at the feet of the Labour Party that hasn't even been in for a year. 14 years of this under the
00:27:56.180
so-called conservatives. How do you explain that? They weren't conservative, never wanted to be,
00:28:02.780
and did nothing. I mean, one of the greatest examples coming out of this is now that they've
00:28:08.580
lost power. I mean, I hate to keep bringing it up, but the grooming gangs is just the, it's the
00:28:13.660
perfect thing to demonstrate everything wrong with the country. Cause it's, it's just on every level,
00:28:18.280
a scandal. It's the scandal alone of them being raped, but the real scandal is the police not
00:28:22.640
wanting to intervene because they're afraid of being called racist. It's just a pathetic reason to let
00:28:27.460
someone reap kids, but whatever. So the fact that they've now lost power, you've seen every
00:28:34.000
conservative former minister, or even the current leader, or people like Jacob Rees-Marc, who lost
00:28:38.440
their seat rightfully because they did nothing during all of this, complaining, this was, this is a real
00:28:45.520
problem, should be solved, someone should do something. And you're like, you were in power for 14
00:28:51.720
years, you were a minister. What do you mean someone should do something? I mean, if only you knew
00:28:56.380
someone who had been in power for the last previous few years. And I remember being in an activist
00:29:01.560
position because I used to work in UKIP, which came up in the interview, for example, that we went
00:29:06.060
through all that. And the feeling was that whenever you'd go to a conservative MP or minister or anything
00:29:12.900
else, or even the activists and talk about this, yeah, this problem is still ongoing. The two-tier
00:29:18.640
justice in the courts, because I'm just going to say it, is ridiculous. I mean, just last week, there was
00:29:23.780
this gang of white child rapists. They were locked up. Big hullabaloo about how we found a white gang
00:29:29.820
of child rapists. You know what they got? Life in prison. Every single one of them. The week before,
00:29:35.980
a gang of brown Pakistani rapists were found, I think it might have been in Rotherham, a new round
00:29:40.300
of people going to jail. And someone got two years. Two years in prison. There's a thing the UK media does
00:29:47.460
that drives me crazy. There'll be 20 rapists each sentenced to two years. And the headline will
00:29:53.940
be rape gang gets 40 years in prison. What? No, that's just 20 guys with two years each. And by
00:30:00.020
the way, they'll all be out in a third of the time. I've never seen that bizarre way of counting
00:30:04.780
like the cumulative sentence. I've never seen any other country do that before, but that's how the
00:30:10.680
British report it. But it's endless, right? You've got all these small things, which is just scandals
00:30:15.340
in on themselves. So back when the conservatives were in power, you'd go to them with this issue
00:30:19.360
and they would treat you like you were telling them that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
00:30:24.120
Yeah. I was just like, wow, wow, that's who you are fundamentally. So now they're out of power
00:30:29.900
and they're bleeding about how someone should do something. I just, you know, I wouldn't piss
00:30:34.220
on them if they were on fire. You know, some of them have brooded the idea of arresting Elon Musk.
00:30:41.440
By the way, Elon Musk, to my knowledge, has not donated to any political party in the UK. I mean,
00:30:47.820
I think he might, but who knows? He has not, as far as I know, bought any ads or anything. He's just
00:30:55.640
weighed in from his own bully pulpit on Twitter, which anyone could do. Like, in a way, he's no
00:31:02.140
different than Kim Kardashian or any British pundit. You just, I think it's just his force of his
00:31:07.720
personality and the people know he's a big shot. He has just taken the British establishment and
00:31:13.680
shaken it so hard, but not with his hand, just with his words on Twitter. I mean, and there's
00:31:19.580
calls for him to be investigated and calls for him to be arrested, but they're being very careful
00:31:23.620
because they don't know how, just how close he is to Trump. It's quite, I mean, Emmanuel Macron
00:31:29.060
arrested Durov, Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, that social media app. Macron invited
00:31:37.860
him for dinner. When he landed in Paris on his private jet, he was arrested. And I think that
00:31:42.860
that would be done to Elon Musk today if he did not have sort of the protective aura of Donald Trump
00:31:48.980
behind him. I think the UK would arrest Elon Musk just as much as they've arrested Tommy Robinson.
00:31:56.160
If it weren't, if, if Trump had not won the election, Elon Musk would be arrested on site
00:32:01.760
if he touched down in the UK. Prove me wrong. Well, the feeling in the UK, at least from the
00:32:06.640
people complaining about the fact that he's telling people what the problems are, is the, I mean,
00:32:12.100
the end goal is what if they just banned X? I mean, no one in the UK would be surprised if that
00:32:16.340
happened overnight, which, I mean, would you be surprised even in Canada if the UK just decided
00:32:23.040
to do that? They did it in Brazil. They, they, they did it to other social media apps in France.
00:32:28.840
They deleted 40,000, um, Facebook pages that were critical of the regime. They absolutely got away
00:32:35.700
with that until Elon Musk bought Twitter. So the answer is I would not be surprised.
00:32:40.320
And then, and what's the problem? Like literally what's the complaint? The complaint is that people
00:32:45.460
could speak freely. I mean, they're just, there is no attempt to try to justify anything at this
00:32:49.980
point. It is just, you're a threat to our power. You have to go, which I mean, talk to every British
00:32:56.460
person. I mean, there's any poll that's done. There's about nine out of 10 people have a feeling
00:33:03.920
that, yeah, no, both Labour and Conservative, you guys have had your chance. You've done nothing good.
00:33:09.120
And now anyone that criticizes you, you just remove. So no one would, no one would cry.
00:33:15.120
If they were both wiped out politically forever, it wouldn't be a problem.
00:33:19.660
You know, um, Callum, we love the book 1984 by George Orwell, who was a quintessential Brit.
00:33:25.360
He was a man of the left, but he, he could see clearly. And, um, when he wrote his book,
00:33:31.540
uh, I think it was in 48 or 50, um, the Iron Curtain was revealing itself. And, uh, so he was aware of the
00:33:39.500
Nazi menace and the Soviet menace and the similarities. We recently republished, uh, 1984
00:33:44.920
with, uh, sort of an illustrated edition, I'm very proud to say. And I reread the book again.
00:33:50.780
And Orwell said, if there is hope, it lies with the proles. And by that, he meant the working class
00:33:57.200
of the proletariat. And there is something in the UK that I get sort of, um, naughty, um,
00:34:05.240
satisfaction out of, and I shouldn't say this because I am a man of law and order,
00:34:09.080
but there's something in the UK. I mentioned the ULES cameras before. There's a group of Brits
00:34:14.700
that call themselves blade runners. And they run around the UK and they destroy these closed
00:34:21.520
circuit TVs. They either take hacksaws and cut them down in a minute, or they spray paint. I just
00:34:27.760
want to show some videos of some of these blade runners running around the UK with their acts
00:34:32.600
of illegal vandalism targeting this government surveillance system. Here, take a quick look.
00:35:13.040
Now, I want to say again that I actually do not believe in in trespass to property
00:35:46.580
And the way I confirm that I don't is I don't want the other side doing that to me.
00:35:51.440
So I've got to acknowledge that I don't want to do it to them.
00:35:55.360
But in a system where, as you point out, there's a uni party, or as some would say, two cheeks
00:36:02.760
on the same arse, to use a Britishism, when the courts are of no help, when the regime
00:36:17.460
And if they don't, there's something called Ofcom, the Office of Communications that'll
00:36:24.880
Sometimes you have to say, well, if there's any hope, it's with the proles.
00:36:32.840
Is there any reason that this is going to get better?
00:36:35.260
So if you speak to the average person, if they're left-wing, they've got no hope and
00:36:42.960
But if they're right-wing or big eccentrist or anything like that, most people seem to
00:36:47.140
be looking to reform and Nigel Farage as the last hope.
00:36:51.980
For a lot of years now, you've had no political solution.
00:36:59.500
They treat you like you're a psychopath for bringing up that these are problems.
00:37:03.080
You couldn't organize resistance through the media.
00:37:06.180
You couldn't organize resistance through the courts.
00:37:08.180
There was no avenue to change things, legally speaking.
00:37:18.060
So when the South Court riots began, quite a lot of people, their reaction was not one
00:37:30.220
Which I, again, just to be perfectly clear for...
00:37:33.080
The people who are currently monitoring me, I don't endorse.
00:37:39.380
Maybe if there is hope, it would be with the proles here.
00:37:50.580
But to get back to your 1984 reference and to my arrest...
00:37:56.600
The endless war with Eurasia or whoever we were at war with these days.
00:38:02.780
I mean, maybe from an American perspective, people think differently on this.
00:38:06.660
But my trips to the Russian Federation were of particular interest to the officers.
00:38:10.540
And we went through where I went, who I met, blah, blah, blah.
00:38:13.800
And initially, I'm thinking, yeah, they're concerned if I got recruited by the FSB, right?
00:38:18.760
And I had to explain to them, no, they think I'm working for you.
00:38:21.560
And I have to be interrogated by them, just like this, in fact.
00:38:24.120
In fact, you're treating me exactly like the Russians treated me.
00:38:30.660
But then when it got to my opinions, one of the things when the officers brought it up,
00:38:35.280
Well, what do you think about the war in Ukraine and their fight for freedom?
00:38:47.260
I mean, the United States is currently just constantly dunking on us for all of our problems.
00:38:52.140
The idea that we have any real influence in Ukraine,
00:38:58.780
rather than the ones who actually gave them all the buckets of money, which is America,
00:39:10.500
then we got onto my opinions on the UK in relation to that,
00:39:15.260
Well, I'm kind of weirded out why are we obsessed with sending them money and aid
00:39:18.420
when they're not going to remember us and they don't really give a crap about us.
00:39:27.760
And even then, it's like, we've got an embassy.
00:39:31.920
We don't have any historical legacy with each other.
00:39:33.920
And at the same time, the UK is failing in every single regard.
00:39:38.700
I mean, we just got over there, law and order, the justice system.
00:39:44.100
And then you think just politically, sorry, economically.
00:39:48.200
and I look at the exchange rate for Great British Pounds.
00:39:51.680
I've started referring to them as good boy points,
00:39:56.260
When it comes to international relations, we're a joke.
00:39:59.460
And I don't know on what front things have got better in the last three decades,
00:40:03.140
and no one seems to be able to tell me where things have got better.
00:40:16.000
actually slightly richer than the average American.
00:40:18.400
And now we kind of look like peasants in a lot of regards.
00:40:22.100
And the constant joke when I was over there from my American friends
00:40:32.220
And they're like, what do you mean, why would you?
00:40:34.320
I was describing it the other day to a British friend of mine.
00:40:42.080
And I'm explaining this to the two police officers,
00:40:45.660
We're like, yeah, my salary hasn't moved in 20 years.
00:40:52.720
It's similar to we actually used to be wealthier
00:40:59.980
It's weird to me that you were asked for your political views
00:41:05.600
You know, even that phrasing war for freedom is,
00:41:26.180
and that sort of destroyed a bunch of terrible censorship laws
00:41:29.820
that were working their way through Parliament.
00:41:31.220
But if I had to tell you why I'm optimistic for Canada,
00:41:35.740
it's because, in some ways, because of Trump and Elon Musk.
00:41:40.780
Because I don't know if you heard Mark Zuckerberg saying
00:41:50.620
And the one thing, I don't know if he caught it, Callum,
00:41:53.240
he said he's going to rely on the U.S. State Department
00:42:00.000
And he referenced Brazil, and he referenced Europe.
00:42:03.300
So I think that Donald Trump is going to take a very different approach
00:42:08.420
And it's going to be an idealistic support of free speech,
00:42:11.900
but it's also going to be a business support and say,
00:42:14.600
hey, don't you dare touch our prized American companies,
00:42:26.380
you're hurting them economically, and I'm going to fight you.
00:42:29.420
So I think that what Zuckerberg was telegraphing
00:42:31.820
is that he's going to promote free speech globally
00:42:35.060
because Trump wants it, but also because Trump will back him.
00:42:39.100
And that gives me some hope that those two guys,
00:42:43.880
Musk and Trump, will push back the darkness of authoritarianism
00:42:53.720
Maybe I'm grasping at things, but that gives me some optimism.
00:42:56.760
I came out of Washington, D.C. the same day you did, I guess.
00:43:04.440
Did you think that some of that freedom energy can spread around the world,
00:43:12.660
So people have been calling it the Trump revolution
00:43:14.920
because it doesn't feel like a slight change in government.
00:43:20.960
I mean, day one, you go from arresting one foreign rapist a day to a thousand
00:43:25.180
and deporting them as well, not just keeping them.
00:43:29.640
Not to mention on all the other fronts, but that's the big one for Trump, right?
00:43:33.060
A lot of people have been whispering in the UK of needing a Trump revolution here.
00:43:37.520
I imagine it's similar in Canada because that new energy,
00:43:42.400
that ability to say, not only did the previous way not work,
00:43:45.960
did tremendous harm, and in fact, there's a different way of doing it,
00:43:49.260
and then demonstrating doing it and it working,
00:43:52.220
that's threatening to anyone who wants to stay in this old version of doing things,
00:43:58.380
of censorship, mass migration, and just coddling people who are committing crimes.
00:44:05.160
That, I think, is maybe why you have so much hope.
00:44:10.740
I mean, one of that big things, I mean, the thing that they're doing there
00:44:13.660
is not only demonstrating something, but they're shining a light
00:44:15.840
on every stupid way of doing things, such as not dealing with the problem,
00:44:19.840
but shouting down the person complaining about the problem.
00:44:22.400
I mean, the big thing that comes to mind in the UK here is,
00:44:28.020
one of the big hits he had was being banned from those social media companies you mentioned.
00:44:33.720
And the way that happened, people don't seem to realize.
00:44:37.040
So the way he was banned from Facebook is there was this Muslim guy
00:44:42.320
and he had a meeting with Facebook at like 11pm.
00:44:45.860
And at 3am, he tweets about how he's just had this meeting.
00:44:50.400
Because he mentions in there that he spoke to them about Robinson.
00:44:55.740
Single guy complained about them in their UK office.
00:44:58.480
The way he was banned from YouTube, which YouTube reaches a third of the planet's population monthly.
00:45:10.600
the British Parliament called in the YouTube director for the United Kingdom,
00:45:20.460
that they kept getting recommended Tommy Robinson's days.
00:45:32.040
he was the head of counterterrorism for YouTube Google,
00:45:42.380
He goes to the UK expecting to talk about ISIS or Al-Qaeda.
00:45:47.080
All they want to talk to him about is Tommy Robinson.
00:46:00.580
which is like the Minister of Domestic Affairs.
00:46:03.720
I know exactly what you're talking about, Callum.
00:46:28.160
were cited as part of the online radicalization