Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ British journalist wrongfully detained under UK Terrorism law

00:00:00.080 Hello, my friends. Crazy, dystopian show today. We talked for almost an hour with Callum Dara,

00:00:05.580 who's a conservative journalist in the UK who was arrested, detained without charge,

00:00:10.440 and grilled for hours by police about his politics. Just absolutely nuts, and it's all happening

00:00:16.740 under terrorism laws. You got to hear this. Hey, before I get to that, I want to make sure that 0.64

00:00:23.560 you know about Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of our podcast. I want you to see some of

00:00:28.200 the videos I show in my conversation with Callum. To get the video version, just go to rebelnewsplus.com,

00:00:35.280 click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. Not only do you get all that video content,

00:00:39.580 you get the satisfaction of supporting Rebel News, because you know, without you, we really wouldn't

00:00:43.960 have a source of income. Trudeau doesn't give us any money, not that we would ever take it,

00:00:48.400 and YouTube has demonetized us, so please go to rebelnewsplus.com. One more thing, though. Hey,

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00:01:27.960 Rocklink with a C, info at rocklink.com. All right, here's today's podcast.

00:01:33.160 Tonight, another conservative British journalist is arrested and grilled for six hours by British

00:01:54.640 terrorism police. What the heck is going on? It's January 31st, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:02:00.700 I remember where I was on 9-11. I was absolutely shocked by it. I was terrified.

00:02:20.640 Was that just the first two buildings knocked down in what was going to be a cataclysmic world war?

00:02:26.880 Or what could we do to stop the terrorists? In the United States, they passed the Patriot Act.

00:02:32.060 The United Kingdom has had a series of laws. One of them is called the Terrorism Act. And there's

00:02:37.200 a provision in the Terrorism Act that I've come to know a little bit, because my friend Tommy

00:02:42.080 Robinson was charged under it. I call it the ticking time bomb clause. That's just me who uses that

00:02:48.720 nickname. And what it does is it allows police to arrest anyone at a port of entry into the UK.

00:02:55.700 So it could be a railway station for the tunnel. It could be an airport. And to detain them without

00:03:01.500 a search warrant. And to detain them in a way that is unique in British American Canadian law.

00:03:08.260 That is, to compel them to answer questions. You can't say, I won't talk without my lawyer present.

00:03:14.880 You can't say, I plead the fifth. That would be a U.S. phrase. You can't say, I have the right to remain

00:03:20.600 silent. You specifically do not. Not only must you answer the questions, but you must give them

00:03:27.220 access to your documents, including to the cell phone password on your phone, where so much of

00:03:33.480 our lives are. Imagine if someone, especially police, especially police with some expertise in how to

00:03:40.100 look, got you to give them the password to your phone. They could access everything from your family

00:03:46.540 photos, to your group chats, to your browsing history. Getting access to your phone is getting

00:03:53.220 access to your entire life, including perhaps your banking information, your GPS tracking.

00:03:59.380 It is a terrifying law. If you look at it through the lens of 9-11, perhaps it makes sense. 0.63

00:04:05.200 Imagine you arrest Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or some criminal mastermind who knows a bomb is about to go

00:04:11.440 off in a matter of hours. You want to be able to press him for answers without him clamming up. I get it.

00:04:18.280 But more and more, that law is used not for terrorists and not even where there's a pretense or a

00:04:23.780 suspicion of terrorism, but rather simply to grill political and journalistic opponents of the

00:04:31.140 prime minister. I say again, our friend Tommy Robinson is facing a prosecution under the Terrorism Act

00:04:37.540 because when he was pulled over, he refused to give the password to his cell phone saying there

00:04:43.060 were journalistic sources he wanted to protect from police, including young girls who had been raped

00:04:49.440 as part of these British rape gangs, and they did not trust police with their identity. Well, this law is

00:04:56.600 being abused more and more. I saw on X the other day that a journalist in the United Kingdom who

00:05:03.100 is not as spicy as Tommy Robinson. He's more a travelogue journalist for interesting places. I've

00:05:11.800 met him a couple times in the UK. He used to work for Sargon of a Cat on the Lotus Eaters, which is sort

00:05:18.300 of an intellectual philosophical channel. He was pulled over at Gatwick Airport and questioned for six

00:05:27.400 hours by police. And I thought, I can't interview Tommy about that because he's in prison, but let's bring

00:05:32.880 aboard Callum Dara, who joins us now via Skype from the United Kingdom. Callum, great to see you again.

00:05:38.860 Thanks for taking the time. No problem, man. It's good to see you again. Likewise. Did I properly

00:05:43.540 describe the Terrorism Act? It has a lot of provisions, but this very powerful one lets police seize

00:05:50.540 and question anyone, and you don't have the right to stay silent. It's so alien to our way of thinking.

00:05:57.600 That's what happened to you. Why don't you tell our folks the story?

00:06:02.100 Sure. I mean, you're absolutely on the money. Basically, I was arriving back from the United

00:06:05.960 States off doing some filming there, and I got to these e-gates, which are a place where you can

00:06:11.420 just scan your passport and a robot scans your face, and then if it matches, it lets you in

00:06:15.340 because all the paperwork's been done before, right? I got to those, scan it as I usually do, and the thing

00:06:21.240 fails. Do it again, and it fails. And I have met Tommy. I know his stories, and he's told me that's

00:06:29.140 exactly what happens to him because he's on the personal interest list in the UK. So he can't use

00:06:33.220 those gates because they just fail on him. So I wasn't that happy that that happened because then I look

00:06:38.560 over at the desk where you've got to go normal immigration, where there's no e-gates, and behind it

00:06:43.320 there's three people looking at me in plain clothes. I'm like, okay, this is gonna be fun.

00:06:48.260 Go up to the desk, hand over my passport. The immigration officer scans it in his machine.

00:06:53.580 It fails. He looks like something's gone wrong. And then they come up and say, we'll take it from

00:06:58.620 here. Take my passport. Hello, Callum. You're detained under the Terrorism Act Section 3, and would you

00:07:04.280 come this way, please? So then they take me into a side room, take my electronic devices off me, and demand

00:07:09.980 my PIN codes. Like you said, I know, for example, Tommy's had this as well. And it's not just him,

00:07:15.760 Lauren Southern, who is a Canadian visiting the UK. She had the same treatment. So it's not just

00:07:19.740 British citizens this happens to. Foreigners are at risk as well. And they demanded the access. 0.96

00:07:26.000 Lauren said no, so they deported her from the United Kingdom of Banda for life. 0.99

00:07:30.220 Tommy said no, so they've charged her with the Terrorism Act. So I have enough trouble,

00:07:34.940 because my job is traveling to interesting places. So I've got enough trouble getting those visas

00:07:38.980 approved without having to explain a terrorism charge in the application. So I went, screw it.

00:07:44.560 Yeah, here's the PINs. Enjoy. So they take all my electronic devices, scam me, take literally

00:07:48.860 everything off me, and then explain to me that I'm detained. I have no right to remain silent,

00:07:53.800 because that was my first question. What are my rights to remain silent? And they explained,

00:07:56.720 there isn't one. Here's a pamphlet. I think I've got a pamphlet, in fact,

00:08:00.320 let it give to you, and say, you can read through that if you want. And yeah, you don't have a right

00:08:05.740 to remain silent. Which, as you say, the justification is that, well, if we're dealing

00:08:12.020 with an imminent threat of terrorism, we need to get the information, we need to stop it,

00:08:15.740 if it's in the next few hours or whatever, right? But that's not what was happening in my case.

00:08:20.020 They wanted information, and that was the way to get it. So it matters not how it was intended.

00:08:25.460 Oh, well.

00:08:26.100 Let me ask the obvious question. I know the answer, but our viewers are probably thinking,

00:08:29.460 well, you must have been up to something. I mean, why don't you just answer the question

00:08:33.600 for me? Are you a terrorist? Do you hang out with terrorists? Are you chummy with terrorists? Have

00:08:39.560 you, who are you that would cause them to pull you over using the terrorism law?

00:08:48.040 So here's the steel man of their position, which would be the, I go to interesting places,

00:08:52.460 like you mentioned. The first one I went to that was a big video that blew up was my trip to

00:08:56.240 Afghanistan. And this was after the Taliban took over the country.

00:08:59.460 So you're thinking, oh yeah, this guy would have met the Taliban, interviewed them,

00:09:02.600 therefore he's on a list, gets interviewed, right? The thing is, that was like two years

00:09:06.340 ago. And I came back from that trip and stood around in customs waiting for someone to come

00:09:10.580 and tap on my shoulder, and they didn't. And I go, fine. So then I keep going to different

00:09:17.640 places. I go to Russia, Kosovo, Transnistria, Zimbabwe, whatever. I just come back from the U.S.

00:09:22.280 in El Salvador. And when they were interviewing me, when I brought up the different stamps on my

00:09:28.660 passport, like after we explained the trip I'd just been on, they couldn't have cared less about

00:09:33.620 Afghanistan, which was the fun part. Because I'm like, oh, you're kind of terrorism. You probably 1.00

00:09:38.180 want to know if I want to join the jihad or whatever. And they're like, no, yeah, if you want

00:09:41.920 to tell us about it, go ahead. Okay. I mean, one of the stories relevant to you guys in Canada is we ran

00:09:47.960 to a checkpoint in Afghanistan. And I'm telling them this story, which is that I get pulled

00:09:53.080 out. This Taliban guy is tapping me down. I speak some pasture to him. And then he starts 1.00

00:09:57.940 blowing back paragraphs of pasture. I'm like, oh, crap. English, English. Sorry. Yeah. Oh,

00:10:02.240 English. Points over some guy. English, English. Guy comes over. Hey, guys, how you doing?

00:10:07.820 He's got a terrible AK. I'm like, that's that's not. Let me guess a Canadian convert. 1.00

00:10:13.480 Yeah. He's a brown guy who I believe or presume was like a son of an immigrant and then went

00:10:20.600 over to join the jihad in Afghanistan. And it was now running checkpoints in Kabul. And

00:10:25.300 we're like, can we take pictures with you? Can we get your phone number to chat about

00:10:27.800 like why you're here? He's like, oh, no, no, no. I've got to go back to Canada someday.

00:10:31.160 Jeez. Well, you know what? I mean, Justin Trudeau would let him back in even if he was known.

00:10:36.160 Let me ask you this. So you're thinking like that's the reason they would ask me, right? But

00:10:40.260 when I told them that story, they couldn't have cared less about Afghanistan. The thing 0.98

00:10:42.820 they were interested in was my time in Russia. And the other thing they were majorly interested

00:10:46.720 in was my trip to the U.S. El Salvador and my views on the West and the United Kingdom.

00:10:52.920 You know, that's so crazy. I mean, El Salvador, when I think of El Salvador,

00:10:57.080 I'm old enough to remember about 40 plus years ago, there was a battle between El Salvador and

00:11:02.980 Nicaragua. The Nicaragua, you know, there was the communist there, Daniel Ortega. That's 40 years

00:11:09.560 ago. Today, El Salvador is one of the freest, safest countries in Central America. Nayib Bukele is a pro

00:11:15.860 Bitcoin, pro freedom guy who's cracked down on the gangs. I'd love to go to El Salvador one day. I think

00:11:22.040 it's sort of a political interest story, a turnaround story. So the fact that they want to know your views

00:11:29.420 on that, I find perplexing because El Salvador is a great success in 2025. It's not the El Salvador of 40

00:11:36.740 years ago. Can you tell us what they were asking you about that? And America, I mean, I was in

00:11:43.440 America on Inauguration Day. It was an exhilarating time. I mean, I don't know your views on Trump. I

00:11:51.640 presume you're sympathetic to him. Give me some of the questions that you were being asked by these

00:11:56.600 counterterror cops. Sure. So when it came to the discussion, after I was told you've got no right

00:12:03.120 to remain silent, take fingerprints, take pictures of your face from every angle, etc. They said I

00:12:09.180 could speak to a lawyer, in fact, and then spoke to the lawyer that was free because I don't have a

00:12:13.580 lawyer. So I called up the duty solicitor and they told me, what are you detained for? I told them the

00:12:19.520 paragraph of the detained under us. I said, what do I do? And they're like, I don't know. What do you

00:12:24.240 mean you don't know? Well, why are you detained? I don't know. Well, I don't know what to tell you.

00:12:28.580 Well, it's just like the blind leading the blind. Yeah, it sounds very helpful. I should tell you

00:12:32.740 that when Tommy was pulled over, his lawyer did assist and he said, I can't really do anything.

00:12:37.780 I can't stop the questions and we can't stop the seizure of your electronics. So, you know,

00:12:43.940 although it's sort of goofy to be given a phone call to a lawyer who knows nothing,

00:12:48.460 if it makes you feel any better, Callum, even if you had the top lawyer in the UK,

00:12:52.420 I don't think it would have stopped the humiliating and really unusual questioning.

00:13:00.480 I just don't, that law is so powerful. It's sort of the British version of the Patriot Act, I think.

00:13:05.960 Well, there's nothing they can do. So yeah, I don't blame the lawyer. It's just,

00:13:09.080 it shows off the ridiculousness of the situation where even the lawyer is like,

00:13:13.140 I mean, her advice directly was answer the questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess they will.

00:13:17.420 Give me a couple of questions that they would put to you because I want to show the viewer

00:13:21.060 that what has happened is that a law that was probably passed in good faith 20 plus years ago

00:13:28.060 is now being weaponized against people who are critical of the state or unusual or perhaps

00:13:34.800 somewhat eccentric in their politics. Tommy told me that when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act,

00:13:41.700 they said immediately, oh, we know you're not a terrorist. We're just going to now pump you for

00:13:46.540 questions about your politics, your street rallies, your journalism. Like they expressly said to him,

00:13:55.080 oh, we know you're not a terrorist. We're just using that law translation. We're abusing that law.

00:14:00.520 Tell me some of the specifics they asked you. Well, it was pretty much the same thing. It's like,

00:14:05.580 we don't suspect you're engaged in anything. Well, why the hell am I detained then? But we don't need a

00:14:10.460 reason to detain you. Great. So the conversation started with the trip I just did. And this was

00:14:16.400 the one that we went into most detail, which is, okay, where did you leave the United Kingdom?

00:14:21.460 Where did you go in the US? And I potted around. So I had to tell them, I started in the UK, got to

00:14:26.980 Vegas, met these people, stayed for this long, did these things. Then I went to Miami and did these

00:14:33.080 things. And then I went to El Salvador and back to Vegas and then somewhere else in the US.

00:14:36.940 And the whole step of that way, like, how long did you stay in this place? Who did you meet in this

00:14:41.200 place? What did you do in that place? So, I mean, I don't think the US is a breeding ground for Brits

00:14:48.140 joining jihadism. So that's... Especially Vegas. That's where... That'll corrupt you.

00:14:55.220 All the good jihadis go to Vegas. That's right.

00:14:58.600 So that was odd. The time in El Salvador as well, what did they do? Who did I meet? In fact,

00:15:03.920 they asked me before they searched the devices, do you have anything of journalistic interest

00:15:07.320 that would risk a source if we uncovered it? I'm like, well, yes. The people I met in El

00:15:12.500 Salvador. Because El Salvador, yeah, in all ways it's a success. There's some other side

00:15:19.020 of that, which I'm going to release in the video upcoming. But so I'm explaining to them,

00:15:24.040 yes, these things. And then when it gets to the questions, they're just like, well, who?

00:15:27.700 Who'd you meet? I'm like, I've got the right to remain silent. So what am I meant to do

00:15:31.940 here? Like, you... Right.

00:15:34.480 You've got to give up your source.

00:15:35.520 Yeah. So if there was a confidential or legally protected or privileged source,

00:15:39.940 and if you are compelled to answer, that's quite dangerous. What's the rule say about

00:15:46.760 that? You just have to disclose it anyways?

00:15:50.000 If you don't answer their questions, you're impeding the investigation. Therefore, you've

00:15:55.760 committed a crime under the terrorist act. So you will be charged.

00:15:58.100 So if you are a terrorist, they acknowledge you're not a terrorist. They ask you a question

00:16:02.660 that would violate your journalistic ethics. And if you don't comply, then they'll deem

00:16:09.080 you a terrorist. You're not a terrorist. Ab initio, they admit that. But if you don't

00:16:14.620 do exactly what they say, that's the terrorism.

00:16:18.680 That's how I presumed it was going to go. So I, you know, you can do your best to answer

00:16:23.340 the question without answering it. But that's about as much as a defense have you got in

00:16:28.100 that situation.

00:16:29.300 And how long did they detain you? I've heard it's six hours that they have. Is that correct?

00:16:33.920 And how long did they keep you under those six?

00:16:36.760 So the legal limit is six. They kept me for four. So within the law, as much as the law

00:16:42.780 matters here.

00:16:43.280 Were you comfortable? Like, were you in a cell? Did they give you water or juice or something?

00:16:47.900 Yeah. They put you in a small room with nothing on the walls and then off you water. So that's

00:16:54.140 how that goes.

00:16:56.220 And how many of them were, and they were recording the whole thing, I presume?

00:17:01.420 Yeah. So there's a recording device in the room that's shown to you. There were two people,

00:17:05.840 a lady and a guy that looks like Louis Theroux interviewing me. I spoke to someone who works

00:17:11.300 in legal stuff after all this. And he believes, or he told me, because I was asking when I was

00:17:16.980 talking to the lawyer, I'm assuming that the whole thing's bugged. And he said, not only do I think

00:17:21.320 that's likely, I think legally it's mandated.

00:17:23.260 Right.

00:17:23.660 And for the disclosure package, well, you could probably request that recording

00:17:29.360 of yourself if you wanted it. I don't know if you would get it, but it might be worth doing.

00:17:35.420 Hey, let me ask you a question. You've described some of the very interesting places you've been to.

00:17:40.400 Yeah. And, um, you know, I mean, America and El Salvador are interesting, but they're not quite

00:17:47.140 as dramatic as Afghanistan, uh, or, or Kosovo even. Did they delete anything? So for example,

00:17:55.540 were you at risk of having your, like you had just done your, you're in the video business,

00:17:59.620 you're a journalist, you're sort of a travel videographer. Did you detect that they deleted

00:18:05.840 anything on your, on your videos? Um, tell me about that.

00:18:11.400 So thankfully not in my case, I mean, we are dealing with the police here and anyone who's

00:18:15.960 not naive knows that that's a possible risk. I mean, when you mentioned six hours is how long

00:18:20.380 you're allowed to be detained. There was a lady who came over on the train. It was a French 1.00

00:18:24.100 journalist. She was detained for 24 hours. So she sued the police and won because that's just,

00:18:29.320 even within the scope of this law, that's highly illegal. So I knew that might happen.

00:18:33.620 So they take my devices, the maximum legal limit they can keep it was seven days,

00:18:38.800 which is annoying because that's my livelihood. That's a, that's a week that I'm screwed. I just

00:18:42.860 can't do my work. So whatever. But I didn't say anything publicly for precisely that reason until

00:18:48.360 I went to Gatwick, which is a four hour drive there, four hours back and had the devices in my

00:18:53.180 hands with a check that it was on there. Because yeah, I mean, if you're in this situation,

00:18:58.480 the advice I can give, which is what I will now do is have some online storage where you keep

00:19:03.500 all of your footage from your work because yeah, they could just delete it. What are you going to

00:19:07.760 do about it? Cry? Well, I, I find that this is the story of the UK. Um, I didn't really know much

00:19:15.860 about the UK until Tommy Robinson came into the orbit of rebel news and he worked for us for a

00:19:20.780 little bit. And I had a crash course in the weaponization of laws that were introduced for

00:19:26.200 one purpose, but then mission creep extended them. I mean, I didn't know all the football laws,

00:19:30.940 or as we call it over here, soccer, uh, that the police had the right to, you know,

00:19:35.320 order you to be dispersed. You can be just sitting in a pub sober, doing nothing wrong. And a cop can

00:19:42.200 say disperse now. And if you don't, you can be charged like that. And, and I don't know if these

00:19:49.400 laws came about because of football hooliganism or because of other things, but all these powers

00:19:55.100 that were for, for a limited acute purpose over the course of time are stretched and stretched beyond

00:20:02.560 recognition and are weaponized and are used for political purposes. I mean, I was there when, I mean,

00:20:08.920 speaking of our friend Tommy, again, when he was at a march against antisemitism, this is about a year

00:20:15.260 ago. And, um, he came there as an ally of the Jews and as a journalist. And by the way, I was, I,

00:20:24.420 I literally bumped into, it was the first time I saw Tommy in years. It was sheer, a sheer accident

00:20:28.880 that I went into the same cafe that he was. We both got to the march early. I went into the cafe to get

00:20:34.400 a bite and there's Tommy, like, what are the odds? Completely random encounter. And other Jews were 1.00

00:20:40.320 there and they were delighted that Tommy was there because Jews in the UK don't have a lot of allies 0.86

00:20:45.240 these days. And to have a working class journalist on their side, they were sort of delighted to have

00:20:50.000 him there. And one left-wing Jew, Gideon Alter, I think is his name, said to the cops, he makes me 0.80

00:20:56.600 uncomfortable. And the cops grabbed Tommy. There was like a dozen cops, handcuffed him, then pepper sprayed

00:21:04.400 him and marched him out. And he was banned from the city. He was literally exiled from London until he

00:21:10.720 fought his court case almost a year later. I tell you this story because every single aspect of that,

00:21:16.620 the police can arrest you because someone else feels nervous. That they can exile you from a great city

00:21:22.900 for a year just because, without a hearing. All of those things probably started, there was probably

00:21:29.840 a little kernel of, oh, here's a good idea. Here's a problem we need to solve. But now it's, it is

00:21:35.320 close to a police state. And the only way I won't say that the UK is a police state is that it's done

00:21:42.140 so selectively, 95% of the time, you wouldn't notice. You notice hard when people start tweeting

00:21:51.480 about the Southport stabbings and then pretty soon 100 people are charged for mean tweets. Like, I think

00:21:56.900 the UK is in real jeopardy of becoming authoritarian. What do you think, Callum?

00:22:02.860 So a lot of people responded, and apparently this has become a quite common meme, which is to refer

00:22:07.920 to England as woke North Korea at this point from the American perspective. It's apt. I mean, 1.00

00:22:13.440 you mentioned football. Did you know there are still blasphemy laws on the books in regards to

00:22:17.300 football rivalries? Because in Scotland, for example, you have Celtic versus Rangers, which turns into

00:22:22.080 Protestant versus Catholic. Now, of course, you have these laws come in because they're like, oh, we need to

00:22:26.060 stop the violence between these two groups. But if you say F the Pope in a certain context,

00:22:31.340 yeah, it's a crime still in the UK. And this only ever goes one way when it gets to the level of

00:22:36.900 police interference. I mean, you mentioned Tommy. I've mentioned Lauren Southern. This has happened

00:22:41.340 to me now. Paul Golding is another one that comes to mind. I'm yet to find a significant left-wing

00:22:47.020 figure who's British, who's had the same treatment. It just doesn't seem to happen. And you're right.

00:22:52.760 I mean, the policing culture in this country, I mean, that phrase, woke North Korea, is probably 0.84

00:22:57.960 the right way to apply to it. If a single individual is seen to be causing offense,

00:23:04.180 the problem isn't that the person complaining needs to grow up. I mean, that's the American

00:23:09.040 perspective. It's like, yeah, other people disagree with you. Live with it. You child.

00:23:14.040 And even to their credit, the American police, for all the problems they've got,

00:23:16.980 they still have that cultural culture when it comes to policing, which is the freedom of

00:23:23.120 speech is sacrosanct, grow up. But when it comes to British policing, the culture is

00:23:28.480 that individual who's causing offense, that's a problem. And as soon as we remove him, everything's

00:23:33.580 perfect. But of course, all that ends up doing is meaning that the person who can claim offense

00:23:38.460 now has a weapon to get rid of their opponents. And the people who are able to use that weapon

00:23:44.340 effectively are a certain wing of British society and British politics. It's not the other side.

00:23:50.500 So no one who offends British right-wingers is ever going to be removed from the city of London.

00:23:55.860 And I can't explain how much of a big deal that is because that's basically the city.

00:24:01.100 We've only really got one. It's so centralized here.

00:24:03.520 Yeah. You know, you say right-wing, and that is part of it. That is a divide. But there's also

00:24:10.680 a class divide in the UK, working class versus for the fancy pants. And then there's also the racial

00:24:18.040 divide. And I think we saw all three of those at play recently in those horrific Southport stabbings.

00:24:23.920 And as part of the rape gang, grooming gang culture, you've got working class white girls, 1.00

00:24:29.840 and you've got primarily Pakistani Muslim men. And that's the perfect storm because you've got 1.00

00:24:36.200 the girls that, as Morrissey would say, they're nobody's nothing. You know, oh, they're just white 1.00

00:24:42.180 working class girls. They're not important. And then you've got this woke, protected by the woke, 1.00

00:24:48.000 you know, because they're immigrant Pakistani Muslims, visible minorities. And so that was all brushed

00:24:55.060 away, brushed aside, the rape gangs of Rotherham and other places. And when you had that inverted

00:25:02.660 during the riots after the Southport stabbings, Keir Starmer set up a around-the-clock 24-hour-a-day

00:25:09.840 prosecution for people who did mean tweets. He didn't set up around-the-clock prosecutions for

00:25:16.180 rape gangs or for other crimes. I just, I think there's a lot of axes in the UK where you have

00:25:23.940 two-tier, based on race, based on class, based on ideology. Am I wrong, Callum?

00:25:29.960 Well, I've got to be careful because I'm back in Britain. It was nice in the US. I finally could

00:25:35.080 say what I want online. But that phrase, two-tier, there was a recent leak from the Home Office

00:25:40.360 showing that the British state considers using the phrase two-tier policing as a sign of extremism.

00:25:46.960 So that's what they said.

00:25:50.340 Which is just such a, I mean, it's proving the point so obviously that if you claim there's

00:25:56.180 two-tier policing, you're a problem and we're going to shut you down. 0.97

00:25:58.800 Yeah, it's under the news.

00:26:00.660 Hopefully you're having a good time with this podcast, but I guarantee a better time would

00:26:05.400 be coming to Alaska with me, Drea Humphrey, and my other Rebel colleagues. You've got to

00:26:12.340 find out more at our special website, rebelnewscruise.com. But it's taking place June 18th to June 25th,

00:26:21.420 a vacation trip of a lifetime. Again, that's rebelnewscruise.com. I'll see you there.

00:26:28.000 You know, you've got this policing culture and you've got this, and then you layer on a total

00:26:37.620 panopticon of constant surveillance. You've got that surveillance state Orwellianism on top of it

00:26:44.760 of closed circuit TVs everywhere. And now, and this is a phrase no one outside the UK knows,

00:26:52.640 ULEZ. It stands for ultra low emission zones. It's basically 15 minute cities and cars are banned

00:27:00.160 between certain times. You've got all these ULEZ, ultra low emission zone cameras that are filming

00:27:07.140 your car if you're driving when you are on the wrong carbon date or whatever, or past your carbon

00:27:13.720 limit. You've got to pay a carbon tax. And it's, it's just, you know, there's no such thing as

00:27:19.920 privacy anymore. If your politics are wrong, you'll be debanked. They even did that to Nigel Farage.

00:27:26.360 And even other, even cabinet ministers, it turned out, were debanked. I really feel like the UK,

00:27:32.200 which was the crucible of our freedoms in Canada and America, I believe you guys are further down

00:27:38.120 the road to authoritarianism than either Canada or America. Even under Trudeau, we have not gone as,

00:27:43.980 as authoritarian as you guys. And you've just had 14 years of conservatives. You can't even put that

00:27:50.580 all at the feet of the Labour Party that hasn't even been in for a year. 14 years of this under the

00:27:56.180 so-called conservatives. How do you explain that? They weren't conservative, never wanted to be,

00:28:02.780 and did nothing. I mean, one of the greatest examples coming out of this is now that they've

00:28:08.580 lost power. I mean, I hate to keep bringing it up, but the grooming gangs is just the, it's the

00:28:13.660 perfect thing to demonstrate everything wrong with the country. Cause it's, it's just on every level,

00:28:18.280 a scandal. It's the scandal alone of them being raped, but the real scandal is the police not

00:28:22.640 wanting to intervene because they're afraid of being called racist. It's just a pathetic reason to let

00:28:27.460 someone reap kids, but whatever. So the fact that they've now lost power, you've seen every

00:28:34.000 conservative former minister, or even the current leader, or people like Jacob Rees-Marc, who lost

00:28:38.440 their seat rightfully because they did nothing during all of this, complaining, this was, this is a real

00:28:45.520 problem, should be solved, someone should do something. And you're like, you were in power for 14

00:28:51.720 years, you were a minister. What do you mean someone should do something? I mean, if only you knew

00:28:56.380 someone who had been in power for the last previous few years. And I remember being in an activist

00:29:01.560 position because I used to work in UKIP, which came up in the interview, for example, that we went

00:29:06.060 through all that. And the feeling was that whenever you'd go to a conservative MP or minister or anything

00:29:12.900 else, or even the activists and talk about this, yeah, this problem is still ongoing. The two-tier

00:29:18.640 justice in the courts, because I'm just going to say it, is ridiculous. I mean, just last week, there was

00:29:23.780 this gang of white child rapists. They were locked up. Big hullabaloo about how we found a white gang 0.84

00:29:29.820 of child rapists. You know what they got? Life in prison. Every single one of them. The week before,

00:29:35.980 a gang of brown Pakistani rapists were found, I think it might have been in Rotherham, a new round 1.00

00:29:40.300 of people going to jail. And someone got two years. Two years in prison. There's a thing the UK media does

00:29:47.460 that drives me crazy. There'll be 20 rapists each sentenced to two years. And the headline will

00:29:53.940 be rape gang gets 40 years in prison. What? No, that's just 20 guys with two years each. And by 0.83

00:30:00.020 the way, they'll all be out in a third of the time. I've never seen that bizarre way of counting

00:30:04.780 like the cumulative sentence. I've never seen any other country do that before, but that's how the

00:30:10.680 British report it. But it's endless, right? You've got all these small things, which is just scandals

00:30:15.340 in on themselves. So back when the conservatives were in power, you'd go to them with this issue

00:30:19.360 and they would treat you like you were telling them that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

00:30:24.120 Yeah. I was just like, wow, wow, that's who you are fundamentally. So now they're out of power

00:30:29.900 and they're bleeding about how someone should do something. I just, you know, I wouldn't piss

00:30:34.220 on them if they were on fire. You know, some of them have brooded the idea of arresting Elon Musk.

00:30:41.440 By the way, Elon Musk, to my knowledge, has not donated to any political party in the UK. I mean,

00:30:47.820 I think he might, but who knows? He has not, as far as I know, bought any ads or anything. He's just

00:30:55.640 weighed in from his own bully pulpit on Twitter, which anyone could do. Like, in a way, he's no

00:31:02.140 different than Kim Kardashian or any British pundit. You just, I think it's just his force of his

00:31:07.720 personality and the people know he's a big shot. He has just taken the British establishment and

00:31:13.680 shaken it so hard, but not with his hand, just with his words on Twitter. I mean, and there's

00:31:19.580 calls for him to be investigated and calls for him to be arrested, but they're being very careful

00:31:23.620 because they don't know how, just how close he is to Trump. It's quite, I mean, Emmanuel Macron

00:31:29.060 arrested Durov, Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, that social media app. Macron invited

00:31:37.860 him for dinner. When he landed in Paris on his private jet, he was arrested. And I think that

00:31:42.860 that would be done to Elon Musk today if he did not have sort of the protective aura of Donald Trump

00:31:48.980 behind him. I think the UK would arrest Elon Musk just as much as they've arrested Tommy Robinson.

00:31:56.160 If it weren't, if, if Trump had not won the election, Elon Musk would be arrested on site

00:32:01.760 if he touched down in the UK. Prove me wrong. Well, the feeling in the UK, at least from the

00:32:06.640 people complaining about the fact that he's telling people what the problems are, is the, I mean,

00:32:12.100 the end goal is what if they just banned X? I mean, no one in the UK would be surprised if that

00:32:16.340 happened overnight, which, I mean, would you be surprised even in Canada if the UK just decided

00:32:23.040 to do that? They did it in Brazil. They, they, they did it to other social media apps in France.

00:32:28.840 They deleted 40,000, um, Facebook pages that were critical of the regime. They absolutely got away

00:32:35.700 with that until Elon Musk bought Twitter. So the answer is I would not be surprised.

00:32:40.320 And then, and what's the problem? Like literally what's the complaint? The complaint is that people

00:32:45.460 could speak freely. I mean, they're just, there is no attempt to try to justify anything at this

00:32:49.980 point. It is just, you're a threat to our power. You have to go, which I mean, talk to every British 1.00

00:32:56.460 person. I mean, there's any poll that's done. There's about nine out of 10 people have a feeling

00:33:03.920 that, yeah, no, both Labour and Conservative, you guys have had your chance. You've done nothing good.

00:33:09.120 And now anyone that criticizes you, you just remove. So no one would, no one would cry.

00:33:15.120 If they were both wiped out politically forever, it wouldn't be a problem.

00:33:19.660 You know, um, Callum, we love the book 1984 by George Orwell, who was a quintessential Brit.

00:33:25.360 He was a man of the left, but he, he could see clearly. And, um, when he wrote his book,

00:33:31.540 uh, I think it was in 48 or 50, um, the Iron Curtain was revealing itself. And, uh, so he was aware of the

00:33:39.500 Nazi menace and the Soviet menace and the similarities. We recently republished, uh, 1984

00:33:44.920 with, uh, sort of an illustrated edition, I'm very proud to say. And I reread the book again.

00:33:50.780 And Orwell said, if there is hope, it lies with the proles. And by that, he meant the working class 0.99

00:33:57.200 of the proletariat. And there is something in the UK that I get sort of, um, naughty, um,

00:34:05.240 satisfaction out of, and I shouldn't say this because I am a man of law and order,

00:34:09.080 but there's something in the UK. I mentioned the ULES cameras before. There's a group of Brits

00:34:14.700 that call themselves blade runners. And they run around the UK and they destroy these closed

00:34:21.520 circuit TVs. They either take hacksaws and cut them down in a minute, or they spray paint. I just

00:34:27.760 want to show some videos of some of these blade runners running around the UK with their acts

00:34:32.600 of illegal vandalism targeting this government surveillance system. Here, take a quick look.

00:34:44.700 on the line, the

00:35:13.040 Now, I want to say again that I actually do not believe in in trespass to property

00:35:42.820 and in crimes against property.

00:35:44.700 I don't.

00:35:45.140 I really don't.

00:35:46.580 And the way I confirm that I don't is I don't want the other side doing that to me.

00:35:51.440 So I've got to acknowledge that I don't want to do it to them.

00:35:55.360 But in a system where, as you point out, there's a uni party, or as some would say, two cheeks

00:36:02.760 on the same arse, to use a Britishism, when the courts are of no help, when the regime

00:36:12.420 media kicks in to reinforce the narrative.

00:36:17.460 And if they don't, there's something called Ofcom, the Office of Communications that'll

00:36:21.600 regulate the TV.

00:36:24.880 Sometimes you have to say, well, if there's any hope, it's with the proles.

00:36:28.320 I don't know.

00:36:29.360 I don't know.

00:36:29.720 Is there hope for the UK?

00:36:31.560 Are you hopeful at all?

00:36:32.840 Is there any reason that this is going to get better?

00:36:35.260 So if you speak to the average person, if they're left-wing, they've got no hope and

00:36:41.520 have given up long ago.

00:36:42.960 But if they're right-wing or big eccentrist or anything like that, most people seem to

00:36:47.140 be looking to reform and Nigel Farage as the last hope.

00:36:50.800 Because you're right.

00:36:51.980 For a lot of years now, you've had no political solution.

00:36:55.360 Your vote meant nothing.

00:36:56.340 That was not a way of reforming things.

00:36:58.160 Writing to your MP didn't do anything.

00:36:59.500 They treat you like you're a psychopath for bringing up that these are problems.

00:37:03.080 You couldn't organize resistance through the media.

00:37:06.180 You couldn't organize resistance through the courts.

00:37:08.180 There was no avenue to change things, legally speaking.

00:37:12.740 So, I mean, this is why...

00:37:15.040 What can I say legally in the UK?

00:37:17.000 I'm trying to think now.

00:37:18.060 So when the South Court riots began, quite a lot of people, their reaction was not one

00:37:22.940 of horror, of violence.

00:37:24.380 It was instead, meh.

00:37:27.480 Yeah.

00:37:27.920 What did you expect?

00:37:30.220 Which I, again, just to be perfectly clear for...

00:37:33.080 The people who are currently monitoring me, I don't endorse.

00:37:36.560 But there's a reason for that.

00:37:38.600 So, yeah.

00:37:39.380 Maybe if there is hope, it would be with the proles here.

00:37:42.540 I hope that reform can change things.

00:37:45.940 If they don't, it'll be nothing new.

00:37:48.860 So there's that side of it.

00:37:50.580 But to get back to your 1984 reference and to my arrest...

00:37:54.860 Well, sorry.

00:37:55.160 Detainment, not arrest.

00:37:56.600 The endless war with Eurasia or whoever we were at war with these days. 0.70

00:38:02.780 I mean, maybe from an American perspective, people think differently on this.

00:38:06.660 But my trips to the Russian Federation were of particular interest to the officers.

00:38:10.540 And we went through where I went, who I met, blah, blah, blah.

00:38:13.800 And initially, I'm thinking, yeah, they're concerned if I got recruited by the FSB, right?

00:38:17.360 If I'm working for the other side.

00:38:18.760 And I had to explain to them, no, they think I'm working for you.

00:38:21.560 And I have to be interrogated by them, just like this, in fact.

00:38:24.120 In fact, you're treating me exactly like the Russians treated me. 0.95

00:38:26.680 Just sitting me down and interrogating me.

00:38:28.820 So, that's that.

00:38:30.660 But then when it got to my opinions, one of the things when the officers brought it up,

00:38:34.220 he said to me directly,

00:38:35.280 Well, what do you think about the war in Ukraine and their fight for freedom?

00:38:38.960 What?

00:38:42.540 Like, we're the UK.

00:38:44.540 We're broke.

00:38:45.700 We're a joke.

00:38:47.260 I mean, the United States is currently just constantly dunking on us for all of our problems.

00:38:52.140 The idea that we have any real influence in Ukraine,

00:38:55.200 or the Ukrainians when the war were over,

00:38:57.620 would care about us,

00:38:58.780 rather than the ones who actually gave them all the buckets of money, which is America,

00:39:02.840 is just comical.

00:39:04.260 It's just one of those things where it's like,

00:39:06.200 Really?

00:39:06.900 This is what your concern is?

00:39:08.960 And what was funny is,

00:39:10.500 then we got onto my opinions on the UK in relation to that,

00:39:13.100 and I've explained to these two guys, like,

00:39:15.260 Well, I'm kind of weirded out why are we obsessed with sending them money and aid

00:39:18.420 when they're not going to remember us and they don't really give a crap about us.

00:39:21.520 I mean, UK-Ukrainian relations didn't exist.

00:39:24.300 You can look it up on Wikipedia.

00:39:25.600 Literally didn't exist until, like, 2010.

00:39:27.760 And even then, it's like, we've got an embassy.

00:39:29.920 Eh.

00:39:30.940 Doesn't matter.

00:39:31.920 We don't have any historical legacy with each other.

00:39:33.920 And at the same time, the UK is failing in every single regard.

00:39:38.700 I mean, we just got over there, law and order, the justice system.

00:39:41.960 Politically, it's a complete quagmire.

00:39:44.100 And then you think just politically, sorry, economically.

00:39:46.780 Like, I've got some Soviet rubles here,

00:39:48.200 and I look at the exchange rate for Great British Pounds.

00:39:51.680 I've started referring to them as good boy points,

00:39:53.540 because they might as well be.

00:39:54.680 Like, economically, we're a joke.

00:39:56.260 When it comes to international relations, we're a joke.

00:39:59.460 And I don't know on what front things have got better in the last three decades,

00:40:03.140 and no one seems to be able to tell me where things have got better.

00:40:06.580 And I'm saying this to these officers,

00:40:08.180 and I'm talking about the economics.

00:40:09.380 I've just been to the Americas,

00:40:10.720 and I can see in the United States,

00:40:12.000 my God, they're way richer than us.

00:40:14.140 And we used to be as rich,

00:40:16.000 actually slightly richer than the average American.

00:40:18.400 And now we kind of look like peasants in a lot of regards.

00:40:22.100 And the constant joke when I was over there from my American friends

00:40:24.540 was pointing something out.

00:40:25.920 I was saying, oh, use this thing.

00:40:27.280 And I'm like, what is that?

00:40:28.640 They're like, it's a garbage disposal.

00:40:29.940 You don't have those?

00:40:30.720 No, why would I?

00:40:32.220 And they're like, what do you mean, why would you?

00:40:34.320 I was describing it the other day to a British friend of mine.

00:40:36.680 He described a garbage disposal as decadent,

00:40:39.920 a waste of money.

00:40:41.120 Why would you have that?

00:40:42.080 And I'm explaining this to the two police officers,

00:40:43.880 and I can see the cogs turning a little bit.

00:40:45.660 We're like, yeah, my salary hasn't moved in 20 years.

00:40:48.400 That's a good point.

00:40:50.660 So that was bad.

00:40:52.720 It's similar to we actually used to be wealthier

00:40:55.200 than the Americans just 10 years ago,

00:40:57.420 and now we're poorer than the poorest state.

00:40:59.980 It's weird to me that you were asked for your political views

00:41:02.660 about a live, contentious issue.

00:41:05.600 You know, even that phrasing war for freedom is,

00:41:09.980 you know, there's a premise there

00:41:11.560 that that's what the war is about.

00:41:13.880 Um, I don't know.

00:41:15.720 I find it dark and despairing.

00:41:21.340 Canada was in a bad place, too.

00:41:24.100 Trudeau panicked and dissolved the House,

00:41:26.180 and that sort of destroyed a bunch of terrible censorship laws

00:41:29.820 that were working their way through Parliament.

00:41:31.220 But if I had to tell you why I'm optimistic for Canada,

00:41:35.740 it's because, in some ways, because of Trump and Elon Musk.

00:41:40.780 Because I don't know if you heard Mark Zuckerberg saying

00:41:42.980 he's going to turn over a new leaf,

00:41:44.820 abolish their fact checkers, 0.51

00:41:46.600 lay off 40,000, you know, net nannies.

00:41:50.620 And the one thing, I don't know if he caught it, Callum,

00:41:53.240 he said he's going to rely on the U.S. State Department

00:41:56.800 to help him have this policy globally.

00:42:00.000 And he referenced Brazil, and he referenced Europe.

00:42:03.300 So I think that Donald Trump is going to take a very different approach

00:42:06.680 to free speech around the world.

00:42:08.420 And it's going to be an idealistic support of free speech,

00:42:11.900 but it's also going to be a business support and say,

00:42:14.600 hey, don't you dare touch our prized American companies,

00:42:19.320 Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, etc.

00:42:22.940 If you touch them in the name of censorship,

00:42:26.380 you're hurting them economically, and I'm going to fight you.

00:42:29.420 So I think that what Zuckerberg was telegraphing

00:42:31.820 is that he's going to promote free speech globally

00:42:35.060 because Trump wants it, but also because Trump will back him.

00:42:39.100 And that gives me some hope that those two guys,

00:42:43.880 Musk and Trump, will push back the darkness of authoritarianism

00:42:48.800 around the whole world.

00:42:50.940 Now, maybe I'm just a fool to think so.

00:42:53.720 Maybe I'm grasping at things, but that gives me some optimism.

00:42:56.760 I came out of Washington, D.C. the same day you did, I guess.

00:43:00.940 I was exhilarated.

00:43:03.560 Were you not?

00:43:04.440 Did you think that some of that freedom energy can spread around the world,

00:43:09.640 or is that just a dream?

00:43:12.660 So people have been calling it the Trump revolution

00:43:14.920 because it doesn't feel like a slight change in government.

00:43:17.760 It feels like a revolution.

00:43:18.840 Things are really different in a lot of ways.

00:43:20.960 I mean, day one, you go from arresting one foreign rapist a day to a thousand

00:43:25.180 and deporting them as well, not just keeping them.

00:43:28.460 That's massive.

00:43:29.640 Not to mention on all the other fronts, but that's the big one for Trump, right?

00:43:33.060 A lot of people have been whispering in the UK of needing a Trump revolution here.

00:43:36.480 That's what would solve things.

00:43:37.520 I imagine it's similar in Canada because that new energy,

00:43:42.400 that ability to say, not only did the previous way not work,

00:43:45.960 did tremendous harm, and in fact, there's a different way of doing it,

00:43:49.260 and then demonstrating doing it and it working,

00:43:52.220 that's threatening to anyone who wants to stay in this old version of doing things,

00:43:58.380 of censorship, mass migration, and just coddling people who are committing crimes.

00:44:05.160 That, I think, is maybe why you have so much hope.

00:44:08.660 I'm hoping that it's true.

00:44:10.740 I mean, one of that big things, I mean, the thing that they're doing there

00:44:13.660 is not only demonstrating something, but they're shining a light

00:44:15.840 on every stupid way of doing things, such as not dealing with the problem,

00:44:19.840 but shouting down the person complaining about the problem.

00:44:22.400 I mean, the big thing that comes to mind in the UK here is,

00:44:25.460 Robinson, for example, a friend of yours,

00:44:28.020 one of the big hits he had was being banned from those social media companies you mentioned.

00:44:33.720 And the way that happened, people don't seem to realize.

00:44:37.040 So the way he was banned from Facebook is there was this Muslim guy 1.00

00:44:39.800 whose name escapes me now, he's a lawyer,

00:44:42.320 and he had a meeting with Facebook at like 11pm.

00:44:45.860 And at 3am, he tweets about how he's just had this meeting.

00:44:48.200 The next day, Robinson is gone.

00:44:50.400 Because he mentions in there that he spoke to them about Robinson.

00:44:53.040 So that's him going from Facebook.

00:44:54.260 That's the route that it happened.

00:44:55.740 Single guy complained about them in their UK office.

00:44:58.480 The way he was banned from YouTube, which YouTube reaches a third of the planet's population monthly.

00:45:05.020 So that is the town square.

00:45:08.300 The way he was banned from there,

00:45:10.600 the British Parliament called in the YouTube director for the United Kingdom,

00:45:14.840 had him in a little room,

00:45:16.960 and then two Labour MPs,

00:45:18.880 these two women, 0.99

00:45:19.720 were just complaining

00:45:20.460 that they kept getting recommended Tommy Robinson's days.

00:45:23.100 Yeah, and one of them,

00:45:24.080 with Ed Cooper,

00:45:25.140 now the Home Secretary,

00:45:26.500 we've got a clip of that.

00:45:27.600 I played this clip a half a dozen times.

00:45:29.740 This American,

00:45:31.000 there was an American there,

00:45:32.040 he was the head of counterterrorism for YouTube Google,

00:45:34.100 which is a huge and important job.

00:45:36.200 Stopping actual terrorist recruitment,

00:45:38.400 stopping terrorist propaganda.

00:45:39.820 Like, he's a serious man on a serious mission.

00:45:42.380 He goes to the UK expecting to talk about ISIS or Al-Qaeda.

00:45:47.080 All they want to talk to him about is Tommy Robinson.

00:45:49.440 He has no idea who that is.

00:45:51.420 And they keep saying,

00:45:52.500 why do I keep getting served videos?

00:45:54.400 Well, it's because you keep clicking on it.

00:45:56.080 Here's an excerpt.

00:45:57.400 And Ms. Cooper here is now the Home Secretary,

00:46:00.580 which is like the Minister of Domestic Affairs.

00:46:02.860 Take a look at this.

00:46:03.720 I know exactly what you're talking about, Callum.

00:46:05.800 Let me just play two minutes of this.

00:46:07.180 Take a look.

00:46:07.640 Your algorithms on YouTube,

00:46:10.320 when you are searching for national action,

00:46:13.860 will then promote the likes of Tommy Robinson

00:46:16.420 and Britain First.

00:46:17.900 This is despite the fact

00:46:19.240 that the Finsbury Park mosque,

00:46:21.900 where somebody was killed,

00:46:23.440 and that's recently been in the headline,

00:46:25.580 despite the fact that videos of Tommy Robinson

00:46:28.160 were cited as part of the online radicalization

00:46:31.980 of Darren Osborne

00:46:33.060 in the Finsbury Park court case,

00:46:35.720 YouTube continues to promote them videos.

00:46:38.880 What have you got to say about that?

00:46:40.600 We are working to make sure

00:46:42.020 that videos that promote hate

00:46:43.820 or promote violence,

00:46:44.940 if they violate our policies,

00:46:46.380 are removed from the platform.

00:46:48.020 If they walk right up to the line,

00:46:50.020 we have also,

00:46:50.880 at the encouragement of this committee,

00:46:52.680 developed a new enforcement mechanism

00:46:54.660 to limit the features that these have.

00:46:57.000 they should not be appearing

00:46:58.220 in our recommendation engine.

00:47:00.100 If they are,

00:47:01.020 I will take this back to our team

00:47:02.680 and see what the problem is.

00:47:04.340 Okay, but they are.

00:47:05.480 I mean, they are appearing.

00:47:06.640 They are in my recommended timeline

00:47:08.800 at the moment.

00:47:09.540 So because I've been searching

00:47:11.340 on my iPad for national action videos,

00:47:14.960 I, as a result,

00:47:16.000 have the first two videos

00:47:18.660 recommended to me by YouTube.

00:47:20.800 When I just click on,

00:47:22.200 as I've just done with this afternoon,

00:47:23.940 I click onto YouTube,

00:47:25.540 the first two recommendations

00:47:27.620 are Tommy Robinson videos.

00:47:29.980 So the Tommy Robinson

00:47:30.940 that was identified

00:47:32.480 as part of the Finsbury Park

00:47:33.940 online radicalization process,

00:47:35.780 that's what YouTube's recommended.

00:47:37.560 I've not searched for it.

00:47:39.140 YouTube has recommended that to me.

00:47:41.960 Doesn't that cause you some serious alarm?

00:47:44.100 I can't speak to these particular videos.

00:47:46.580 Personally, it causes me a lot of alarm,

00:47:49.220 but I will take this back to our team

00:47:50.800 and see why this has happened.

00:47:52.180 It's not even just about

00:47:52.780 the individual videos.

00:47:53.820 It's actually a recommended channel.

00:47:55.320 I have got up here,

00:47:56.340 it is coming up

00:47:57.140 as my recommended channels,

00:47:59.040 that one of the recommended channels

00:48:01.280 for me is

00:48:02.740 Tommy Robinson recommended channel.

00:48:05.980 I've also got British Warrior.

00:48:07.780 I've got a series of other,

00:48:09.600 you know, quite sort of

00:48:11.760 extreme things that are coming up,

00:48:14.600 but I have specifically

00:48:15.500 Tommy Robinson recommended channel.

00:48:17.420 You can pass you my iPad.

00:48:20.460 It's important for the company

00:48:22.120 and for our bottom line,

00:48:23.540 for the recommendation engine

00:48:24.980 to work as it is intended,

00:48:26.720 to make sure that people

00:48:27.720 can find quality content

00:48:29.420 that they are looking for.

00:48:30.980 It should not be serving up

00:48:32.500 videos that incite or inspire hate.

00:48:35.780 If it is,

00:48:37.060 there is a problem,

00:48:38.220 and I will take it back to the team

00:48:39.740 and see that it's addressed.

00:48:41.160 But lots of people have raised this with you.

00:48:43.460 This is not just us.

00:48:44.340 This is not the first time.

00:48:45.400 I do not believe this is the first time

00:48:46.900 you have heard this.

00:48:47.920 allegations and concerns

00:48:49.880 that your algorithms

00:48:51.240 are promoting more and more

00:48:53.240 extreme content at people.

00:48:55.020 Whatever they search for,

00:48:56.180 what they get back

00:48:57.260 is a whole load

00:48:58.300 more extreme recommendations

00:48:59.980 coming through the algorithms.

00:49:02.340 You are the king of the search engine,

00:49:04.700 and yet your search engines

00:49:06.740 are promoting things

00:49:08.580 that further and further

00:49:09.880 radicalize people.

00:49:10.860 Whatever they search for,

00:49:11.940 they get something more back.

00:49:13.280 They basically made

00:49:15.340 a political demand.

00:49:16.600 What I'm hoping

00:49:17.420 is that if that happens next time,

00:49:20.680 the American executive

00:49:21.980 goes back home

00:49:22.960 and says to Trump,

00:49:25.060 Dad,

00:49:25.840 they were picking on me.

00:49:27.160 And then Trump picks up a club

00:49:28.360 and says,

00:49:29.020 you're going to censor my boy?

00:49:30.480 That's how I'm hoping

00:49:31.680 it goes down next time.

00:49:33.100 I don't know.

00:49:33.880 YouTube, Google are the worst.

00:49:35.140 They're actually the worst.

00:49:36.600 Yeah.

00:49:38.300 There's some willfulness

00:49:39.340 to play that game,

00:49:40.280 but I'm hopeful as well.

00:49:42.360 I mean,

00:49:42.500 you've got to feel bad

00:49:43.140 for the YouTube guy there

00:49:44.080 who's having to

00:49:44.860 hold back his words

00:49:46.700 because he's just like,

00:49:48.100 oh, these boomers. 0.92

00:49:49.200 If you click on his videos repeatedly,

00:49:51.240 you'll keep getting recommended to him.

00:49:52.760 It's not complicated,

00:49:53.780 you fools. 0.69

00:49:54.760 But he can't say it.

00:49:56.900 But either way,

00:49:58.000 they did comply.

00:49:59.180 And that sort of action,

00:50:02.340 imagine if a senator,

00:50:04.340 you know,

00:50:04.520 a couple of senators

00:50:05.120 who don't like,

00:50:06.020 I don't know,

00:50:06.380 Tim Paul or whoever else,

00:50:07.340 right,

00:50:08.180 call in the head of YouTube

00:50:09.540 and keep complaining.

00:50:10.680 I keep clicking on

00:50:11.640 Tim Paul's videos.

00:50:13.140 And you keep recommending them

00:50:14.160 to ban him.

00:50:15.220 And then they banned him

00:50:16.200 the next day.

00:50:16.920 I mean,

00:50:17.140 it's unthinkable.

00:50:17.780 It just wouldn't happen

00:50:18.420 in the US.

00:50:19.220 But that's what happened

00:50:19.900 in the UK.

00:50:20.460 No justification whatsoever

00:50:21.700 other than two pissed off

00:50:22.980 women MPs.

00:50:24.440 Right.

00:50:24.720 That's the way the UK operates.

00:50:26.440 All the other things

00:50:27.100 we've mentioned.

00:50:27.840 It's just a complete travesty

00:50:29.140 of any kind of reasonable operation.

00:50:32.220 The only thing that's changed

00:50:34.020 is Elon Musk coming to power

00:50:35.640 and shining a light

00:50:36.640 on how this has all been going on.

00:50:38.840 The British here 0.99

00:50:39.740 and the English

00:50:40.100 are finally getting to see

00:50:41.080 how much things have gone wrong

00:50:42.820 on a platform that's massive

00:50:44.120 like X in real time.

00:50:45.680 Well, Callum,

00:50:48.300 we sometimes crowdfund

00:50:50.020 for people.

00:50:51.320 I mean,

00:50:51.620 we do it a lot in Canada,

00:50:53.000 occasionally in America,

00:50:54.640 Australia,

00:50:55.080 and even in the UK.

00:50:56.740 Until very recently,

00:50:57.760 we crowdfunded

00:50:58.560 the bulk of Tommy Robinson's

00:51:00.360 battles on the Terrorism Act

00:51:01.740 and his contempt of court matter.

00:51:04.540 And we do it.

00:51:06.860 It's in our blood

00:51:07.380 because we believe

00:51:08.480 that sometimes

00:51:09.860 you just got to step in

00:51:10.760 with action,

00:51:11.300 not just words.

00:51:12.040 If you get into a pickle

00:51:13.420 for what you've said

00:51:15.620 and if you need some help,

00:51:16.840 we've got some

00:51:17.720 Terrorism Act lawyers.

00:51:19.600 I'm making you an offer

00:51:21.140 on TV

00:51:22.240 that if you need help,

00:51:23.760 there's not a lot

00:51:24.720 they can do,

00:51:25.500 to be honest,

00:51:26.360 if they arrest you

00:51:27.680 under that Terrorism Act

00:51:28.560 as you've accurately described.

00:51:30.340 But I'm worried about you.

00:51:33.180 I mean,

00:51:33.380 I don't know your work

00:51:34.240 as well as I know

00:51:35.380 some of the other work

00:51:36.220 from you used to be

00:51:37.160 at Lotus Eaters,

00:51:37.880 which is a very

00:51:38.360 philosophical channel.

00:51:39.660 But it's clear

00:51:40.860 that you've been targeted

00:51:41.620 for your politics,

00:51:42.360 not for anything

00:51:43.140 terrorist-y that you've done.

00:51:44.740 I hope you remain safe

00:51:46.020 and free.

00:51:46.660 And if you don't,

00:51:48.140 if you don't have

00:51:48.820 the resources in the UK

00:51:49.980 or an infrastructure,

00:51:52.640 I believe that it's

00:51:54.140 within the mandate

00:51:55.060 of Rebel News

00:51:55.740 and our viewers,

00:51:56.620 we have a UK viewership

00:51:57.860 that I think would support it.

00:51:58.960 So this is just me

00:51:59.820 making an unsolicited

00:52:01.600 offer to help you

00:52:02.420 because I get mad

00:52:03.160 when I hear these things.

00:52:04.660 And I know how they

00:52:05.460 treated Tommy

00:52:06.600 and I think they're trying

00:52:08.120 to scare a lot

00:52:09.280 of people off.

00:52:11.660 You've been very generous

00:52:12.540 with your time,

00:52:13.120 by the way.

00:52:13.560 I think we only booked you

00:52:15.100 for 10 minutes

00:52:15.700 and here we are

00:52:16.220 coming up on an hour.

00:52:17.140 It's just very interesting

00:52:17.900 to talk about.

00:52:18.700 And I'm a bit of an

00:52:19.380 Anglophile in my own way.

00:52:20.980 How can people

00:52:21.860 follow your stuff?

00:52:22.800 I'd like to see your videos

00:52:24.000 from Afghanistan.

00:52:24.920 I'd like to see your videos

00:52:25.800 from Zimbabwe

00:52:26.700 and Kosovo

00:52:27.780 and Russia

00:52:28.340 and I'd like to see these

00:52:29.980 especially now

00:52:30.740 that I know

00:52:31.220 the government

00:52:31.720 doesn't want me

00:52:32.440 to see them.

00:52:33.340 What's the easiest way

00:52:34.420 to get your stuff?

00:52:36.480 So the best way

00:52:37.340 is to go to YouTube

00:52:38.060 and type in Britannica

00:52:39.520 and it will come up.

00:52:40.840 It's,

00:52:41.260 I'll type in

00:52:41.940 tourism in Afghanistan.

00:52:43.340 That's the biggest video

00:52:44.360 in terms of views.

00:52:45.280 So that should come up

00:52:46.020 as well.

00:52:46.300 You'll see my face

00:52:47.040 and the thumbnail

00:52:48.100 surrounded by Taliban.

00:52:49.600 So that's the way

00:52:51.060 to find it.

00:52:51.700 If you like what I do,

00:52:53.120 I do give out trinkets

00:52:54.560 from all these trips

00:52:55.720 as well

00:52:56.140 from what I have left over.

00:52:57.740 So for example,

00:52:58.220 I mentioned I got

00:52:58.760 Soviet rubles here

00:52:59.720 and I've also got

00:53:00.860 some Zimbabwe dollars,

00:53:02.820 hundreds of trillions

00:53:03.600 of Zimbabwe dollars.

00:53:04.620 Wow,

00:53:04.880 so you're a trillionaire.

00:53:06.880 Hundreds and hundreds

00:53:08.900 of trillionaire

00:53:09.600 just to myself.

00:53:10.720 But I give these out

00:53:12.440 for people who subscribe

00:53:13.220 on Subscribestar.

00:53:14.080 So that's another question

00:53:14.900 the police had,

00:53:15.600 which is they wanted

00:53:16.480 to know about my finances.

00:53:18.280 So what's your income?

00:53:19.280 What are your sources of income?

00:53:20.300 Where do you keep your money?

00:53:21.500 Which accounts?

00:53:22.600 Oh my God.

00:53:24.200 Yeah,

00:53:24.480 I didn't enjoy that

00:53:25.640 because then

00:53:26.260 they've got your phone.

00:53:27.600 So there's no point lying.

00:53:28.560 Like that's what my Bitcoin is,

00:53:30.580 for example.

00:53:30.940 They already knew that.

00:53:32.380 But I hand these out

00:53:33.700 to people who subscribe.

00:53:34.980 So if you subscribe

00:53:35.660 on Subscribestar,

00:53:36.300 I will send you

00:53:37.040 some Soviet rubles

00:53:37.940 and some Boppy dollars

00:53:38.860 while stocks last.

00:53:39.840 And then I also sell

00:53:41.000 some other...

00:53:41.460 It's a real collectible.

00:53:42.540 And you know,

00:53:42.880 in the UK,

00:53:43.440 I'm sure it'll be

00:53:44.260 converted at par

00:53:46.400 quite soon.

00:53:48.200 Yeah,

00:53:48.520 one for one.

00:53:50.120 I also sell some other things.

00:53:51.460 So this is a sneak peek

00:53:52.280 into El Salvador.

00:53:53.180 I found some Bukele,

00:53:54.500 I don't know what you'd call that,

00:53:56.160 but that's what they're selling.

00:53:57.400 Very dramatic.

00:53:58.220 That's very cool.

00:53:59.020 Yeah,

00:53:59.140 he's sort of a cool dude.

00:54:00.760 Well,

00:54:00.940 listen,

00:54:01.280 Kelvin,

00:54:01.480 it's nice to spend

00:54:02.120 some time with you.

00:54:02.660 I mean,

00:54:03.000 I know I bumped into you

00:54:04.380 once or twice

00:54:04.960 in the UK.

00:54:06.940 It's a small place.

00:54:07.860 And you're right,

00:54:08.340 London is really

00:54:08.940 the big metropolis.

00:54:10.300 And if you're banned

00:54:10.840 from there,

00:54:11.280 you're sort of banned

00:54:11.880 from public life.

00:54:13.600 I'm upset with

00:54:14.580 what's being done

00:54:15.260 with this law.

00:54:15.980 It's a mission creep

00:54:17.560 and it's being

00:54:18.300 politically weaponized.

00:54:19.480 And I believe

00:54:20.340 that you've done nothing

00:54:21.260 that even comes

00:54:22.500 within a mile

00:54:23.160 of terrorism.

00:54:24.660 I think that just

00:54:25.760 is a law

00:54:26.220 that's being used

00:54:26.800 to stop

00:54:27.320 and grill

00:54:27.820 journalists,

00:54:29.060 political activists,

00:54:30.140 and private citizens

00:54:31.260 who catch the eye

00:54:33.320 of some politically

00:54:34.900 motivated police chief

00:54:36.680 who would rather crack down

00:54:37.760 on a YouTuber

00:54:38.420 than on a rape gang.

00:54:39.780 I'm very disappointed

00:54:40.580 and I hope

00:54:41.040 that the UK

00:54:41.400 can find its way

00:54:42.220 back to liberty,

00:54:43.660 which is your country's

00:54:45.860 greatest gift

00:54:46.600 to the world

00:54:47.280 is liberty

00:54:48.500 and the Magna Carta

00:54:50.100 and Areopagitica

00:54:51.480 and your whole

00:54:52.240 and Adam Smith's

00:54:53.600 Wealth of Nations.

00:54:55.020 So much

00:54:55.880 of freedom ideology

00:54:58.540 comes from the UK.

00:55:00.480 The formation

00:55:01.680 of a high-trust society,

00:55:03.420 everything that the UK

00:55:06.340 has done historically

00:55:07.500 and culturally

00:55:08.240 has been a benefit

00:55:09.460 to the free men

00:55:10.380 around the world.

00:55:11.500 And it is painful

00:55:12.500 to see it slip away.

00:55:13.620 So I wish you

00:55:14.160 personal success,

00:55:15.520 I wish you country

00:55:16.320 success,

00:55:17.100 and I hope that

00:55:17.960 in the future

00:55:19.780 we have happier things

00:55:20.760 to talk about.

00:55:21.440 But thank you

00:55:21.840 for being with us today.

00:55:24.120 Thanks for having me, man.

00:55:25.220 And thanks for the offer

00:55:26.200 for defending me

00:55:27.800 if things get worse here.

00:55:29.620 Next time on Calumdera,

00:55:30.700 I'll come and say hi.

00:55:31.600 Send me a note

00:55:32.280 if you want to take me up

00:55:33.120 on that because

00:55:33.840 at the very least

00:55:34.940 we should have a lawyer

00:55:35.620 on standby for you

00:55:36.860 if they, God forbid,

00:55:38.340 pull you over again.

00:55:39.200 It makes me mad.

00:55:40.540 It makes me mad

00:55:41.420 to hear about that.

00:55:42.980 All right.

00:55:43.480 There he is,

00:55:44.440 Calumdera,

00:55:45.820 fighting for freedom

00:55:46.540 in his own way,

00:55:47.500 a world globe-trotting journalist.

00:55:49.500 You can find him

00:55:50.140 at Britannica.

00:55:51.460 Britannica?

00:55:53.120 Or Britannica?

00:55:54.420 Britannica.

00:55:55.080 Britannica.

00:55:55.800 Britannica with a C

00:55:56.900 on YouTube.

00:55:59.080 All right.

00:55:59.840 That's our show for today.

00:56:01.400 Until next time,

00:56:02.600 on behalf of all of us

00:56:03.580 here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:56:04.920 see you at home.

00:56:05.480 Good night.

00:56:06.680 And keep fighting for freedom.

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00:56:15.380 or cause that you want

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00:56:26.740 on podcasts like this one,

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Rebel News Podcast - February 01, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ British journalist wrongfully detained under UK Terrorism law

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