Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Canada’s forgotten civil rights history, with Lord Conrad Black

00:00:00.000 Tonight, a feature interview with historian and author Conrad Black.

00:00:19.280 It's November 24th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:22.540 You're fighting for freedom!

00:00:25.780 Shame on you, you censorious bug! 0.87

00:00:30.000 You know, my whole life, when I use the word civil liberties or freedom, boy, that word 0.87

00:00:42.240 triggers people, they always say, that's not a Canadian value.

00:00:45.400 We are about peace, order, and good government.

00:00:47.340 That freedom stuff is an American concept.

00:00:50.060 Well, I know that's not true.

00:00:51.620 I know that Canada's history is one of freedom.

00:00:54.180 We were born in freedom, and it's not a partisan thing either.

00:00:57.440 Ask Wilfrid Laurier.

00:00:58.500 And so, I think it's incredible that we finally have a book documenting the history of civil

00:01:05.920 liberties in Canada, and I have it in my hand.

00:01:07.780 It's called Forgotten History, Civil Rights in Canada, and what a pleasure to spend the

00:01:13.540 course of the next half hour with its author, Lord Conrad Black.

00:01:17.220 Thanks for coming in.

00:01:18.620 Congratulations on the book, published by our cousins at the Democracy Fund.

00:01:22.580 Tell us what the thesis of this book is.

00:01:27.200 Well, in fact, rights are at the very core of the organization of Canadian government,

00:01:33.940 going back to immediately following the Battle of the Plains of Abraham.

00:01:39.580 I mean, we had rather severe French criminal law and gentler French civil law when it was

00:01:47.720 New France, French colony.

00:01:49.200 But as soon as the Québécois, they became, got a good look at British governance.

00:01:57.620 They wanted to get rid of French criminal law and get the benefit of a more generous and

00:02:04.740 fairly administered British criminal law.

00:02:08.060 But they wanted to retain civil law.

00:02:09.840 And of course, they were principally concerned about their religious and language rights.

00:02:15.280 And I mean, at that time, it was unlawful in the British Empire for a Roman Catholic to

00:02:21.340 hold a public office.

00:02:22.520 But the British varied that, obviously, for Quebec.

00:02:26.020 And an arrangement was made by one of the great statesmen in Canadian history, Sir Guy Carleton,

00:02:32.820 Lord Dorchester, who was the governor and saw what was happening in the American government.

00:02:39.840 And saw how restive they were becoming.

00:02:42.760 And he left his post in Quebec and returned to London, didn't retire as governor.

00:02:48.400 He spent four years in London lobbying for the passage of the Quebec Act, which was passed

00:02:54.520 just before the American Revolution.

00:02:56.740 And basically, it said the French Canadians will swear allegiance to the British crown.

00:03:02.180 And the British crown promises there will be no interference with the Catholic religion

00:03:08.260 or the French language.

00:03:09.840 Or the civil law of Quebec, French civil law.

00:03:13.420 And both sides upheld the bargain.

00:03:15.680 And that was the only way that we kept Canada from joining the American Revolution.

00:03:22.200 And so to answer your question about the thesis, we have a fusion in this country of French

00:03:30.000 and English concepts of law, which is unique in the world.

00:03:33.160 And generally, it works quite well.

00:03:35.000 But you get these differences where the English tradition is of the rights of the individual

00:03:41.580 and the French tradition is the rights of the collectivity.

00:03:45.440 See, to the French mind, French-Canadian mind, traditionally, it was nonsense to tolerate 1.00

00:03:51.760 anti-democratic forces.

00:03:54.000 That's why Duplessis used to attack the communists, for example. 1.00

00:03:58.060 I mean, they said, you English are idiots. 1.00

00:03:59.720 You're allowing these people to exploit democracy to attack democracy. 1.00

00:04:04.180 And this makes no sense.

00:04:05.300 And you can see the logic of it.

00:04:07.680 Well, you can see it today in our streets.

00:04:09.340 We see people marching against Canada, calling for jihad, using our freedoms perhaps to attack

00:04:14.740 our freedoms.

00:04:15.020 Exactly.

00:04:15.820 I mean, it is this phenomenon of democracy being exploited by anti-democratic forces.

00:04:21.160 Interesting.

00:04:22.180 You know, until I read your book, I didn't think of it that way.

00:04:26.040 I mean, you grow up, especially growing up in Western Canada, there's always that tension

00:04:29.640 between English and French Canada.

00:04:31.100 And Quebec has certain rights.

00:04:32.540 But if you look at it historically, 250 years ago, to grant minority rights to a minority

00:04:37.340 language and a minority religion, that's got to be a novelty, like to have, to protect 1.00

00:04:43.620 the minority.

00:04:44.420 And you say it was partly to shore up Canada against an American Revolution.

00:04:48.700 Well, fine.

00:04:49.100 And to prevent Canada from falling into the American Revolution.

00:04:51.980 Whatever the reason why, it did grant civil liberties in a time when civil liberties were

00:04:56.320 not as, well, they were not as common as they are today.

00:04:59.600 Exactly.

00:05:00.040 You know, we can take note of the inconsistencies in the American Revolutionary position.

00:05:10.440 I mean, Jefferson writing, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created

00:05:15.180 equal.

00:05:15.620 And he was, of course, a slaveholder.

00:05:17.560 But it had a tremendous power.

00:05:19.420 And the Americans, even in their earliest moments, had this genius of showmanship and

00:05:24.200 salesmanship.

00:05:25.740 They struck a heavy blow for liberty.

00:05:28.440 And it would have had a huge attraction in Canada if the French had not been concerned 1.00

00:05:34.620 about other things, including if you look carefully in the Declaration of Independence, there's

00:05:40.860 the allegation that the British were trying to, I mean, the British government was trying

00:05:47.360 to spread Catholicism in America.

00:05:49.760 That's in the Declaration of Independence. 0.99

00:05:51.720 Of course, rubbish. 0.96

00:05:52.780 They weren't trying to do anything of the kind. 0.99

00:05:54.240 They were just protecting it in Canada.

00:05:57.900 But these things seem very obscure now, but they were terribly important then.

00:06:04.380 Because if it hadn't happened, the United States would be the whole continent.

00:06:07.960 There wouldn't be a Canada.

00:06:08.840 There'd be a bunch of American states. 0.91

00:06:11.400 Now, that's not the end of the world.

00:06:12.540 Some people would like that very much.

00:06:14.100 I'm not saying it would be a horrible fate, but it would be a very different political situation.

00:06:18.600 The book is called Forgotten History, Civil Rights in Canada.

00:06:21.140 You can get it at ForgottenHistoryBook.com.

00:06:24.220 Hey, let me tell you my favorite story of Canadian civil liberties.

00:06:27.980 In the 19th century, when Sir Joseph Howe was an up-and-comer in Nova Scotia, he would

00:06:37.080 go on to become an important part of Canada.

00:06:41.780 In Sir John MacDonald's government, yes.

00:06:43.940 He was a publisher before he was a politician, and he wrote about corruption in Halifax, and

00:06:53.680 he was prosecuted for criminal defamation.

00:06:57.240 It wasn't a civil lawsuit.

00:06:58.000 No, that's a serious matter.

00:07:00.960 And he was his own lawyer, which is normally bad advice.

00:07:04.580 But he talked about freedom of the press and the importance.

00:07:07.760 And then the judge in this case directed the jury to convict, but the jury would not.

00:07:14.060 They acquitted him.

00:07:15.120 And to this day, Sir Joseph Howe, who was really one of the founding fathers of Canada in many

00:07:19.180 ways, I believe he struck the greatest blow for freedom of speech and freedom of the press

00:07:24.380 in Canadian history.

00:07:26.000 I doubt one in a hundred people in Canada know that.

00:07:28.680 I doubt one in ten in Nova Scotia know that.

00:07:31.260 That their founding father fought for the right to skewer politicians with the tool of free

00:07:38.880 speech and free press.

00:07:40.320 There are stories like that, and we don't champion them.

00:07:43.000 We don't have him on the $10 bill.

00:07:45.340 We don't teach his story.

00:07:47.100 Maybe they do in Nova Scotia.

00:07:48.560 I think he's prominent in Nova Scotia, but I agree.

00:07:51.180 He should be more prominent.

00:07:52.540 Especially for fighting for civil liberties.

00:07:54.060 Some of those fathers of confederation from the outlying places were extraordinarily able

00:08:01.020 men.

00:08:02.420 And the man from New Brunswick, Tilly, Samuel L. Tilly, he invented the word dominion as a

00:08:13.800 name for country, as a type of government.

00:08:15.680 I mean, they were very intelligent people.

00:08:18.180 And how he somewhat blotted his ledger because he petitioned the British government against

00:08:26.360 the evils of confederation, but in an orderly way.

00:08:31.380 He just sent a petition, you see.

00:08:32.940 And then this was entertained in Parliament, and it was contradicted by a similar petition

00:08:37.840 from MacDonald and some of his colleagues, and the British quite rightly found in favor

00:08:43.780 of MacDonald.

00:08:44.440 But at least it was a process.

00:08:46.060 They heard the thing out, and then MacDonald, great statesman as he was, the denigration

00:08:50.920 of him in recent years has been an outrage.

00:08:53.620 He recruited Howe, who was a political opponent, to come into his government.

00:08:58.060 You know, there's such a great story there.

00:09:00.300 And by the way, and I'll stop talking about Sir Joseph Howe now, but I don't have as much

00:09:05.180 history in me as you do, so I've got to make use of the stories I do know.

00:09:09.260 His closing arguments to this day are recorded by the government of Nova Scotia on the government

00:09:15.160 homepage to show people what that back-and-forth battle is like.

00:09:20.020 But let me ask you this.

00:09:20.880 You mentioned Sir John A. MacDonald, obviously the builder of the country, and an able man

00:09:26.560 despite his flaws.

00:09:27.580 I should tell you, if you drive 20 minutes south of here, you'll come to Queen's Park,

00:09:33.580 which is the name of the Ontario legislature, and you will see something that is strange.

00:09:37.660 You will see a giant wooden box that looks like an upright coffin.

00:09:42.000 Yes.

00:09:42.300 And if you weren't here in this country more than 10 years, you would never know what's

00:09:48.120 in that coffin.

00:09:48.720 The answer is, it is a statue of Sir John A. MacDonald, the founding father, the first

00:09:53.840 prime minister, and it has been boarded up out of shame, out of denunciation, out of cowardice,

00:10:01.920 out of indecision, tear it down, keep it up.

00:10:04.500 Well, let's board it up in a sarcophagus.

00:10:07.620 What do you think that says about our treatment of history and a man who, whatever his flaws,

00:10:17.860 built this country?

00:10:20.060 It's, of course, tangled up in the complicated and very vexed issue of historic treatment of

00:10:28.760 the native people. And the charge against MacDonald is that he was hostile to them, a racist, and was

00:10:37.080 responsible for an unreasonable and unjust treatment of them. And in my opinion, that's an

00:10:44.440 unjust charge. And what it tells me, my principal reaction is, it shows the lack of courage of our

00:10:51.560 public leaders. Because in every jurisdiction, they should have said, rubbish, MacDonald, like everyone 0.96

00:10:57.600 else had his faults, but he was a great leader, a great prime minister, and without him, this country 0.65

00:11:03.900 would not exist. And on balance, he was undoubtedly a very constructive force. And because he said,

00:11:13.260 you want to take the Indian, you know, out of the Indian and make him a Canadian, what he really 0.68

00:11:20.500 meant was that he wanted to give the native people the right to participate fully in Canadian life if

00:11:28.040 they wanted to. He gave them the right to vote. How do these native radicals go around hanging him 0.95

00:11:34.400 in effigy and calling him a genocidist, trying to exterminate them, when he gave them the right to

00:11:40.800 vote? And he had native allies like Crowfoot, for example, who he was loyal to, and they were loyal

00:11:48.720 to him. I mean, he wasn't hostile to natives. He was trying to help them. Now, maybe the policies

00:11:54.540 weren't overly successful, but the motivation was good. And yet we have these lunatics accusing 0.97

00:12:00.640 the founder of our country of being virtually a replicator of Hitler. It's a scandal. 0.95

00:12:05.460 I personally know two native Indians who attended residential schools, one of whom is a senior

00:12:13.520 lawyer, and his son is now a lawyer. And he told me that the idea that he would go to law school

00:12:20.340 without having that building block of his Canadian Western education was unthinkable. So he said he

00:12:26.360 owes his entire life's path, his prosperity, his effect on the world, his assistance to other

00:12:33.780 indigenous people. He owes it all to the residential school. And I know another man who attended

00:12:38.360 residential school who told me that their family reunions, they would all get together. Not a

00:12:41.980 single one of them had a complaint. They loved it. Now, I'm not saying that's a universal story.

00:12:46.040 At all schools, there are some abuses. By the way, any boarding school can have some molestation or

00:12:51.740 other illegal mischief. That's not necessarily something to do with Indian residential schools.

00:12:57.900 I guess what I'm saying is there are some indigenous people who make that argument, but I put it to you

00:13:02.340 the most of them are actually woke, white, cultural Marxists who are looking to divide us, just like

00:13:09.060 Black Lives Matter was an attempt to racially divide. That couldn't really be grafted onto the Canadian

00:13:14.380 experience because we didn't have slavery in any major way. So they said, uh-huh, we'll use the

00:13:19.940 oppressed-oppressor dichotomy in an indigenous context. I think it's just cultural Marxism trying

00:13:26.900 to corrode our history, which was actually quite a pleasure. Couldn't agree more. And

00:13:30.420 we should remember the following facts about the residential schools. I don't dispute that some bad 0.78

00:13:37.340 things happened. Probably a lot of bad things. I don't doubt that. But all of them were there

00:13:43.440 because there were applications to accept them. They weren't. This idea they were torn out of the

00:13:48.900 hands of their parents is rubbish. They weren't. Two, it was their only exit from poverty and illiteracy, 0.99

00:13:55.500 as your friend said. If it wasn't for that, whatever the failings of those schools, they taught

00:14:00.540 them to write and read and do basic education, the three R's, which they would not have had.

00:14:08.060 And then we have built upon this blood libel against ourselves, culminating in this absolute fraud

00:14:17.520 of the murder and furtive burial in unmarked graves of native children. You realize that $27 million

00:14:26.780 were voted to determine just what these graves, if they are in fact graves, what's in there.

00:14:33.320 And not one native child has been discovered. And not one native child died unrecorded. Now,

00:14:41.400 unfortunately, at that time, even with wealthy people, tuberculosis was a terrible problem.

00:14:47.260 And the death rates were much higher than they are now. But this idea that our government and our

00:14:55.120 churches, our Christian churches were engaged in murdering either deliberately or out of negligence,

00:15:01.740 native children, and secretly burying them without any record is simply outrageous. There's not one

00:15:10.100 part of it is true. You know, Rebel News, our journalist, Drea Humphrey.

00:15:12.920 But that confirms what you said.

00:15:15.040 Well, and there are lots of politics afoot. Let me show you a quick clip from a documentary film

00:15:21.760 that our reporter, Drea Humphrey, did. She's part Indigenous herself. She went to Kamloops. 0.82

00:15:26.240 She bumped into the mayor by chance on the street. We tried to, we tried to get answers. I want to

00:15:31.900 show you a short clip of what that looks like. Take a look.

00:15:34.480 Kind of look at some of the archives and get some of the history and everything.

00:15:38.200 So, are you recording?

00:15:39.380 Yeah.

00:15:40.160 Okay, there's no ask for anything.

00:15:42.320 Oh, okay, just put it down. Where's the best place to get, like, the history, like,

00:15:46.040 to look through archives and things like that right now?

00:15:48.700 Right now, um, that's not my term. Political.

00:15:53.380 Okay.

00:15:53.760 My termical.

00:15:54.480 So, well, I guess.

00:15:55.800 I would have to come back and just find out exactly where, you know, all that stuff is.

00:15:59.620 Because, like, I know that if you're talking about, like, records, like, whether it's

00:16:03.340 for the students that were running here.

00:16:04.820 Right.

00:16:05.080 Uh, and also just, in general, the missing one and so on.

00:16:08.980 So, those are what they probably could look in places like, uh, the history of reconciliation.

00:16:15.880 Right.

00:16:16.360 And the rest of the main office.

00:16:17.700 There is an athletic.

00:16:18.960 Okay, yeah.

00:16:19.860 So, there's that place.

00:16:21.460 There's also, you know, contacting the local organizations.

00:16:23.940 So, that would probably, that would be, uh, a way for an individual to ask about the records

00:16:31.720 and the documents, but I know that a lot of that is also confidential and has to go as

00:16:35.520 a proper process because it's very sensitive information to hold the integrity of the

00:16:39.840 individuals and families that were directly impacted.

00:16:42.640 Yeah.

00:16:43.020 And, of course, it also has to be done in a trauma-informed way.

00:16:46.160 So, there's a lot of different protocols and steps that need to take place.

00:16:49.120 So, I've done a few reports on it, and I think the main, uh, question most people

00:16:53.500 ask is, what is the timeline for excavation to find out, you know, what happened in the

00:16:59.880 grave site?

00:17:00.420 Well, for myself, again, we didn't have a scheduled interview.

00:17:06.180 Okay.

00:17:07.180 And two, uh, we are still working on, and we have just been assigned an interlocutor that

00:17:13.720 has been, you know, as a part of the press release with, uh, with Minister Obedee and

00:17:18.540 with Minister, um, uh, Martin Miller.

00:17:21.220 Okay.

00:17:21.720 You guys said that a couple days ago, so that's also on the website.

00:17:24.540 Oh, so it is going to happen.

00:17:25.860 There's going to be yes to this.

00:17:26.980 Yes.

00:17:27.480 I'm not saying there's going to be excavation, but we are, we're just going to be

00:17:30.400 working through those steps to determine what's going to take place.

00:17:33.160 Okay.

00:17:34.160 And that's why the interlocutor, the special interlocutor has been identified and working

00:17:38.160 through those steps.

00:17:39.160 The worst thing about that is it went from, there are anomalies that we detect underground

00:17:44.920 to, I mean, Jagmeet Singh himself saying mass graves.

00:17:49.000 Like it just, everyone was trying to outdo the other.

00:17:51.160 And again, why, why, why?

00:17:52.920 It's because if you destroy your past, undermine your past, denounce your past, if you call

00:17:58.400 yourself a genocidal country, Justin Trudeau has called Canada.

00:18:02.220 I know.

00:18:02.760 He won't say that about China, which some would say meets the-

00:18:06.320 Well, they've got more of a claim to it than we do.

00:18:08.100 Well, I was going to say that province of Xinjiang, the Uyghur Muslims. 0.89

00:18:11.320 When you call your own country a genocidal country, when you hide your own prime minister,

00:18:19.020 when you destroy your own story, your own narrative, that is the largest kind of self-destruction

00:18:26.000 in this cultural Marxism.

00:18:27.740 It is suicide.

00:18:28.580 And the decolonizers who say, well, Israel is the oppressor, so anything you do about,

00:18:35.180 anything the oppressed do in return is justified. 0.74

00:18:37.920 I fear that could actually one day come here.

00:18:42.180 People saying anyone associated with the past, anyone associated with being white, with being

00:18:47.020 powerful, any violence is acceptable. 0.98

00:18:49.580 If it's white and it's successful, it's bad, evil, and oppressive. 1.00

00:18:53.600 Except it isn't. 0.99

00:18:54.980 If it's white and successful, it's successful, and it happens to be white. 0.95

00:18:59.480 But it's not exclusively white.

00:19:01.400 I think Canada really has been one of the most successful countries in the world.

00:19:05.220 But that is part of our vulnerability, because it is receptive to foreigners, because we need 1.00

00:19:12.120 immigration, and all people who've immigrated here came voluntarily.

00:19:16.620 We don't have the legacy of slavery, where people were involuntarily transported from

00:19:20.880 another continent.

00:19:21.500 And because of that, and because we do welcome foreigners, and because it's a country that

00:19:27.800 has, look, we're not perfect.

00:19:30.500 Nobody is.

00:19:31.020 But we have a relatively clean past.

00:19:34.280 We never engaged in an aggressive war overseas.

00:19:38.060 We never sought to conquer anybody.

00:19:40.540 We populated our half of this continent.

00:19:43.560 But the idea wasn't an invasion of someone else's territory.

00:19:47.240 It was to build a nation, including the people that we found here.

00:19:50.840 And because Canadians are sensitive to these issues and respect questions like rights in

00:19:57.700 general, and always have, French and English, we're vulnerable to that charge.

00:20:03.060 And because we're vulnerable to it, these charlatans hurl these outrageous charges at us and hang

00:20:09.080 the founder of our country in effigy, and compare them to Hitler, who, I need not tell your viewers, 0.90

00:20:15.920 plunged all Europe into war and murdered 12 million innocent people in death camps.

00:20:22.040 I'm worried about that.

00:20:23.280 I mean, a nation is many things.

00:20:25.000 If you look at the root of it, it's literally where you were born.

00:20:29.040 The word natal or nativity is rooted in the same word, your nature.

00:20:32.800 But if we denature our country, if we destroy the past, destroy our stories, denounce our

00:20:37.880 heroes, well, then nature abhors a vacuum, and something else will fill that void. 0.96

00:20:41.980 You're a sitting duck. 0.86

00:20:43.460 And you can believe anything, especially if you're taught to hate yourself and your past. 0.99

00:20:48.640 I fear that the utopia that's being promised to displace our flawed past will be carnage.

00:20:57.520 Look around the world at others who have tried it, whether it was Stalin or Mao,

00:21:01.180 to raise the past down to zero, and to start again to build a perfect society.

00:21:06.820 Maybe I'm sounding too dramatic, but frankly, the way the world has gone since the terrorist

00:21:11.960 attack on October 7th, the vocal uprising in the West of so many anti-Western elements

00:21:20.340 on our streets, that scares me.

00:21:22.140 What do you think of what's been going on the last six weeks?

00:21:25.280 In the West, I mean, put Israel aside. 0.95

00:21:27.160 But in response to the, well, look, I think it was orchestrated in advance by the, what

00:21:34.280 we might call the Palestinian movement.

00:21:36.140 They must have known that Israel would respond very forcefully militarily, and their plan

00:21:43.140 was to mobilize the Muslim minorities in the Western countries to demonstrate in great

00:21:50.540 numbers, focusing on what they judged to be on the basis of what they'd seen.

00:21:55.040 They didn't just imagine it.

00:21:57.020 They had some reason to believe it.

00:21:58.680 The weakness and cowardice of our Western governments, that if there were big demonstrations, they'd

00:22:04.560 put pressure on Israel.

00:22:06.180 And so that's part of their strategy.

00:22:08.080 Now, I think it hasn't really worked.

00:22:10.480 I mean, you can only demonstrate so far, particularly when it's an attempt, ultimately, to justify

00:22:16.100 barbarous behavior, the outrages, the atrocities of October 7th.

00:22:20.040 And secondly, I'm glad to see the response.

00:22:24.020 The largest demonstration of all was the pro-Israel one in Washington a couple of weeks ago of

00:22:29.500 250,000 people.

00:22:31.680 And I understand another one of comparable sizes finally coming in London.

00:22:37.520 And, you know, the Jewish community is nothing like as powerful in Britain as it is in America 1.00

00:22:42.140 or as numerous.

00:22:43.420 But I don't think it's working, but I think it's a tactic.

00:22:46.720 Now, I have been shocked, as I'm sure you and most of your viewers have, by some of the

00:22:52.480 anti-Semitic manifestations on our campuses and in our media.

00:22:58.400 But on the other hand, for many years, I've found both our campuses and our media constant

00:23:03.940 sources of disappointment and concern.

00:23:06.260 And they are full of people who are capable of believing anything.

00:23:14.680 You know, Chesterton said, when people stop believing in our Judeo-Christian values, it

00:23:20.520 doesn't mean they won't believe in anything.

00:23:22.780 It means they will believe in anything.

00:23:25.100 And that's where we're getting to.

00:23:26.940 But with all of that said, I think it is going to work out.

00:23:31.080 Because I think Israel essentially has been given a blank check by American opinion to

00:23:38.680 do the necessary to assure that an October 7 never happens to them again.

00:23:44.480 And when they destroy the military arm of Hamas and then sign the agreement with Saudi Arabia,

00:23:50.360 I think it will so shift the correlation of forces that we will finally have a chance

00:23:55.760 of a genuine peace agreement.

00:23:57.440 You are perhaps more optimistic about America's role than me.

00:24:01.840 I see in Joe Biden, the vice president...

00:24:03.860 I'm not optimistic about him, just the country.

00:24:05.880 Okay, well, I'll take your answer in that light then.

00:24:08.100 Because I know that Biden was part of the Obama administration that strengthened Iran,

00:24:12.700 that gave them...

00:24:13.360 And then he went on appeasing Iran. 0.73

00:24:16.220 And look, I think he is now trying to reconcile the traditional Democratic Party of Roosevelt

00:24:22.820 and Truman and Kennedy and Johnson, who are reasonable people.

00:24:27.240 I mean, we might disagree with them in some ways, but they were patriotic Americans and friends of Israel.

00:24:33.980 But, well, Roosevelt died before Israel was founded, but he was certainly a friend of the Jews.

00:24:40.400 And on the other hand, Biden has, as you say, been not just a front row witness,

00:24:50.460 but a key protagonist in the intrusion into the Democratic Party

00:24:55.960 and the gnawing away within it of this woke minority, but this powerful, assertive minority.

00:25:03.900 And he's now trying to reconcile traditional Democratic Party reasonableness

00:25:08.740 with these anti-American, anti-Semitic extremists.

00:25:15.120 And, you know, at a certain point, you can't reconcile that.

00:25:18.400 You know, you can't reconcile oil and water very well.

00:25:21.360 But I think that's what's happening.

00:25:25.180 But fortunately, there'll be an election in a year.

00:25:27.160 You know, I look at America, how different it is in four years.

00:25:33.840 I guess it's been three years since Donald Trump, since the last election.

00:25:38.380 America, the economy is staggering.

00:25:41.140 Inflation, war, or the rumors of war in Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel in the Middle East.

00:25:50.660 And I think a lot of people, even who are not Trump fans,

00:25:54.020 would say that wouldn't have happened under Trump because he projected strength and risk to enemies.

00:26:00.660 People didn't know if he would have a tantrum and fire missiles at you.

00:26:04.380 The bad guys were tamed during Trump's tenure.

00:26:07.880 There were no new wars.

00:26:08.840 China was muted.

00:26:10.560 North Korea was coming around. 0.83

00:26:13.320 Russia didn't make a move on the green.

00:26:15.020 The Americans hadn't had 8 million illegal so-called migrants.

00:26:19.960 Of course, they're not immigrants in a traditional sense,

00:26:22.240 like people going under the Statue of Liberty and registering their names

00:26:26.580 and coming to join a new country and become citizens.

00:26:29.640 It's more like the late Roman Empire, just masses of people moving into another country. 0.66

00:26:34.780 It feels like the decline of an empire, the final days.

00:26:37.520 That's misleading.

00:26:38.560 The United States is not in that kind of a decline.

00:26:41.220 Well, it's certainly overstretched militarily.

00:26:42.680 I see now that the U.S. military is talking to Zelensky about getting him to negotiate,

00:26:47.880 whereas two months ago, the word negotiator, ceasefire.

00:26:51.420 Whatever it takes, they said.

00:26:52.960 Look, if they can't dislodge Russia from where they are, 0.99

00:26:55.760 they've got to make a deal giving Russia pretty much what it has.

00:26:59.780 But in exchange, Russia does admit that Ukraine, in its new borders,

00:27:04.520 is an absolutely sovereign country.

00:27:06.540 There's no more question about them not being a legitimate country.

00:27:10.940 I mean, the Ukrainians may have to accept three quarters of a loaf,

00:27:14.220 but that's still progress for them.

00:27:16.960 Well, it's been an absolutely, it's been a demographic disaster.

00:27:21.880 Hundreds of thousands of young men dead.

00:27:24.180 I saw a news report the other day that the average age of the Ukrainian soldier

00:27:27.800 is now in the mid-40s because so many younger men have been put through the meat grinder

00:27:32.840 or have fled the country as refugees.

00:27:34.480 Well, they've taken, what, the Ukrainians have taken about 100,000 casualties.

00:27:39.360 Oh, I think it may be more than that.

00:27:41.140 But in any event, it's just, it's a horrific loss.

00:27:43.420 And they've had more than 12 million people displaced, so it's a terrible upset.

00:27:47.340 But it's a heroic tradition to build a country on.

00:27:50.320 But we've got to turn the corner and take all this money that NATO is putting into the war there.

00:27:56.500 We've got to put into development aid, which without any corruption,

00:28:00.260 has got to be properly used to build Ukraine back up.

00:28:04.760 Two elections in the last week have been fascinating.

00:28:07.760 Both have been Trumpy, in a way.

00:28:11.020 I refer to, and both of them have magnificent hair, I should tell you.

00:28:15.580 The first is a colorful hair.

00:28:17.520 I know who you're talking about.

00:28:18.500 I'm talking about Javier Mille, if I'm saying that, right, in Argentina,

00:28:22.060 who is even more audacious than Trump, if that's possible.

00:28:26.260 He wields a chainsaw at campaign rallies days before the election.

00:28:30.280 He made a piñata out of the central bank.

00:28:33.420 I want to show you that piñata clip because we haven't shown it before.

00:28:37.260 Take a look at Javier Mille.

00:28:38.740 Let's just show a few of his greatest hits.

00:28:42.480 The chainsaw, the piñata, the stickers, and let's end with the Israeli flag.

00:28:47.620 Because for a leader in these days to wave the Israeli flag days before the election,

00:28:53.160 that's a bold risk you're taking.

00:28:55.420 Look, he is apparently a practicing Roman Catholic who says he has been contemplating

00:29:00.560 converting to Judaism for 20 years.

00:29:02.820 Oh, my God.

00:29:03.380 In a 90% Catholic country.

00:29:05.340 I've been practicing Catholic country.

00:29:06.940 Let's take a quick look.

00:29:07.860 Here's Javier Mille.

00:29:08.940 Pará, pará, que va a romper todo.

00:29:10.100 Pará, Javier, pará.

00:29:11.500 Correte, correte.

00:29:12.660 Ayudalo, ayúdalo.

00:29:13.220 Chicos, el palo, el palo. 1.00

00:29:14.100 Cuidado, cuidado, pará.

00:29:16.100 Ay Dios, correte, correte.

00:29:17.820 Vení, vení, vení, que no entras en...

00:29:19.560 Ahí está, ahí está. 0.97

00:29:20.700 Tranquilo, tranquilo, con tranquilidad.

00:29:23.060 Cuidado, chicos, correte, pará, pará, pará, pará.

00:29:25.500 Pará, pará, pará, pará, cuidado.

00:29:28.440 No, cuidado.

00:29:29.580 Pará, acá, pará.

00:29:30.540 Pará, pará, pará, pará.

00:29:33.460 Bueno, basta, basta, basta.

00:29:35.080 Bueno, pará.

00:29:36.120 Ahí está.

00:29:37.240 No, listo, listo, listo, listo.

00:29:38.820 Pará.

00:29:39.800 ¡Toda la inflación! 0.77

00:29:41.880 ¡Basta! 1.00

00:29:44.360 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:45.140 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:45.920 ¡Basta, Mille! 1.00

00:29:46.420 ¡Basta, Mille! 1.00

00:29:47.040 ¡Basta, Mille! 1.00

00:29:51.200 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:51.620 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:52.020 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:54.580 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:55.060 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:55.560 ¡Llévatelo a la casa! 1.00

00:29:58.340 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:29:59.740 ¡Llévatelo! 1.00

00:30:00.080 The Department of Sporting, outside!

00:30:04.080 Ministry of Culture, outside!

00:30:07.080 Ministry of Environmental Development and bytes, outside!

00:30:11.080 Ministry of Women, Género and Diversity, outside! 0.89

00:30:15.080 Ministry of Public Works, outside!

00:30:18.080 Although you resist!

00:30:20.080 Ministry of Ciencias, Technology and Innovation, outside!

00:30:23.080 Ministry of Trabajo, Employment and Social Security, outside!

00:30:26.080 Ministry of Education, outside!

00:30:28.080 Ministry of Transport, outside!

00:30:30.080 Ministry of Health, outside!

00:30:32.080 Ministry of Development, outside!

00:30:35.080 Ministry of Social Security, outside!

00:30:36.080 Se acabó el curro de la política.

00:30:39.080 ¡Viva la libertad, carajo!

00:30:53.080 Oh, that hair, I'll never get tired of looking that hair.

00:30:56.080 Speaking of hair, yesterday, or two days ago, in the Netherlands, Gert Wilders, the leader of the Party for Freedom, who has been very hardline against immigration, and in particular against Muslim immigration, dominating, getting 38 seats, more than doubling his seat count.

00:31:14.080 Here's a quick clip of him on election day.

00:31:16.080 Here's a quick clip of him on election day.

00:31:22.080 Both of these characters, pro-Israel, pro-Western, pro-capitalist, anti-woke, anti-globalist, small government, and anti-immigration.

00:31:32.080 And in the case of Kate Wilders, perhaps the most anti-Islamic candidate in the Western world, what do you make of these two dramatic wins in a week?

00:31:44.080 Look, I think it's a trend.

00:31:46.080 And I think, in a way, none of these countries are interchangeable.

00:31:51.080 I mean, the Netherlands and Argentina are extremely different countries.

00:31:55.080 And the United States, of course, is immensely complicated, and it's a third of a billion people.

00:32:00.080 But the fact that Trump was the only person in American history to be elected president who never sought or held any public office,

00:32:11.080 elected or unelected, or a high military command, and just projected himself on the basis of his celebrity and his identification of the levels of discontent in parts of the country,

00:32:25.080 which the polls hadn't picked up.

00:32:26.080 It was news to everybody except him.

00:32:28.080 I think that was the forerunner of it.

00:32:31.080 And, I mean, again, there's special cases.

00:32:34.080 I mean, Wilders has been focused on immigration as an issue, I think, throughout his public career.

00:32:39.080 And he wants a kind of Brexit, a Netherlands Brexit, a Nexit.

00:32:43.080 Yeah.

00:32:44.080 Which, and you know what?

00:32:45.080 I tell you, one Brexit, the EU can maybe withstand that.

00:32:48.080 But if Netherlands goes, Italy will probably want out.

00:32:52.080 There's other, like, that's an interesting...

00:32:54.080 Then it gets very vulnerable.

00:32:55.080 The dominoes start falling.

00:32:56.080 And in the case of Argentina, you know, at the end of World War II, Argentina and Canada had equal standards of living.

00:33:03.080 It's incredible to think about that.

00:33:04.080 And, you know, it's not that Canada's been so brilliantly governed, but it's still a very rich country.

00:33:08.080 And Argentina, more than half the population lives in poverty.

00:33:12.080 And there's no excuse for it.

00:33:14.080 It's a rich country.

00:33:15.080 There's no illiteracy.

00:33:17.080 There's just no excuse for it.

00:33:19.080 It's just bad government.

00:33:20.080 45 million people.

00:33:21.080 It's a substantial country.

00:33:23.080 Oh, yes.

00:33:24.080 And they've chosen a new radical.

00:33:25.080 And a splendid country.

00:33:26.080 Yeah, well, I've never been, but maybe we'll have to check it out.

00:33:28.080 Hey, let's end on Donald Trump, because I know you've written it.

00:33:31.080 You've known him for years.

00:33:33.080 You were sort of neighbors.

00:33:34.080 Yeah.

00:33:35.080 In New York and in Palm Beach, yeah.

00:33:37.080 And what was the name of your book?

00:33:38.080 The President Like No Other?

00:33:39.080 The President Like No Other.

00:33:40.080 The President Like No Other.

00:33:41.080 We talked about that.

00:33:42.080 Here's a quick clip of our conversation about that book.

00:33:44.080 I love talking to you about books.

00:33:46.080 Here's a President Like No Other, a little bit of a conversation that Conrad Black and I had about that.

00:33:51.080 This was a 256 page, breezy, readable, fun book.

00:33:58.080 Some pages you laugh out loud. 0.58

00:34:00.080 Some pages you say Donald Trump's a rascal. 0.96

00:34:03.080 And you know what? 0.98

00:34:04.080 I think you managed to be fair, but not to suck up to Trump and not to be a gotcha critic either. 0.88

00:34:11.080 No, no.

00:34:12.080 I tried to play it right down the middle.

00:34:14.080 And the true Trump is, in fact, a very entertaining person.

00:34:18.080 So a book about him should be rather entertaining.

00:34:20.080 Yeah.

00:34:21.080 You know, a President Like No Other, that's sort of an ambiguous statement.

00:34:24.080 You could say that if you were a Trump hater or a Trump lover.

00:34:27.080 Yeah.

00:34:28.080 But he's such a character.

00:34:29.080 But no one can dispute that that is true.

00:34:31.080 Yeah.

00:34:32.080 There's never been one like that, of that country anyway.

00:34:34.080 A lot of people despise him.

00:34:36.080 What's interesting to me is a lot of his critics today, 10 years ago, would have been his superfans

00:34:41.080 or at least people who wanted to bask in his celebrity and his wealth.

00:34:45.080 Well, they'd see him as fine in his place as a sort of blowhard billionaire.

00:34:49.080 But the idea that he wanted to take over the system and kick out the people that he said had misgoverned the country for the last 15 years,

00:34:57.080 obviously that offends all those who identify with the people who've been established in office in both parties all that time.

00:35:04.080 Well, look, the guy is, he's like Gulliver in Gulliver's Travels and all the Lilliputians,

00:35:09.080 there are hundreds of them tying him down.

00:35:11.080 And they're distracting them.

00:35:13.080 They're burning up his cash on lawyers.

00:35:15.080 They're giving him bad press.

00:35:17.080 Yes, they may actually get the guy in jail.

00:35:20.080 But I put it to you that right now he's ahead 10 points in the polls.

00:35:25.080 And even if he were in jail, I think he would still be ahead in the polls.

00:35:28.080 Because first of all, people understand the justice system has been weaponized.

00:35:31.080 And second of all...

00:35:32.080 Corrupted.

00:35:33.080 I mean, it's been terribly perverted.

00:35:35.080 And they don't care if he's in jail because they look at the world and say the world is on fire.

00:35:38.080 Well, it's a rapid process.

00:35:39.080 Get the fireman out. 0.86

00:35:40.080 Even if he's in jail, we need the fireman now.

00:35:42.080 So were Mandela and Gandhi in jail.

00:35:44.080 Hey, that's a good point.

00:35:45.080 That's a good point.

00:35:46.080 That's a good point.

00:35:47.080 So was Robert Walpole.

00:35:48.080 So was Cervantes.

00:35:49.080 All kinds of people are.

00:35:50.080 Huh.

00:35:51.080 I never looked at it that way.

00:35:53.080 Donald Trump said he can end the Ukraine war in 24 hours.

00:35:56.080 I actually believe that.

00:35:58.080 The guy's a natural deal-maker.

00:35:59.080 Biden and Obama were the worst negotiators.

00:36:01.080 Two phone calls.

00:36:02.080 One to the Kremlin and one to Kiev.

00:36:04.080 I really think so.

00:36:06.080 And I'm not saying he's magical.

00:36:08.080 I'm just saying he was not part of the deep state.

00:36:10.080 No, but as president, he had a consciousness of the power of America and what it could do.

00:36:15.080 He's getting on in age, too.

00:36:17.080 Watching Joe Biden is painful to see.

00:36:18.080 The age isn't important.

00:36:19.080 It's your condition.

00:36:20.080 He feels lively.

00:36:21.080 He feels lively and like he's got his wits about him.

00:36:24.080 Look, Goethe wrote Faust when he was 80.

00:36:28.080 Verdi wrote his Requiem when he was 85.

00:36:31.080 Sophocles in the 5th century BC wrote Oedipus when he was 90.

00:36:37.080 And the famous Doge, Daldona, conquered Istanbul at the age of 96. 0.72

00:36:46.080 I mean, Mr. Gladstone formed a government at the age of 81.

00:36:50.080 Adenauer was a distinguished chancellor up to the age of 88.

00:36:56.080 And you can do it.

00:36:57.080 Yeah.

00:36:58.080 I think Trump can.

00:36:59.080 He's got a lot of energy.

00:37:00.080 He's a tornado.

00:37:01.080 He only sleeps about five hours a day.

00:37:03.080 And whereas Biden, they often call him in.

00:37:06.080 He's an old 80 and Trump's a young 77.

00:37:10.080 And I think everyone can see that.

00:37:12.080 And it's true what Bin Laden said decades ago.

00:37:15.080 People look at the strong horse and the weak horse and they want to go with the strong horse.

00:37:19.080 And America has had a weak horse for three years and what makes me crazy.

00:37:22.080 But it was a sandbag job of an election too.

00:37:25.080 Yeah.

00:37:26.080 Well, I mean, let me ask you, let me conclude with a terrible and terrifying question.

00:37:30.080 I look at all the resources, all the laws being bent or broken to get him, the collusion of the media.

00:37:35.080 I look at the lengths they've gone to beat him in 2020, to undermine him in the interregnum.

00:37:40.080 And to try and destroy him in 2016.

00:37:42.080 And the other day, a Democratic congressman, actually who led the charge of impeachment in the House, used the word eliminate.

00:37:49.080 He said, we have to eliminate Trump here.

00:37:51.080 Let me show you that.

00:37:52.080 Here's a Democrat saying eliminate.

00:37:54.080 Every time he talks, he's putting himself into a bigger criminal hole.

00:37:58.080 But that's not his objective.

00:38:01.080 His objective is purely political at this point.

00:38:03.080 Politics don't work in a courtroom, as I think he's finding out in the New York attorney general's case, in New York, a civil case.

00:38:10.080 And that's going to continue in his criminal trials.

00:38:13.080 But his rhetoric is really getting dangerous, more and more dangerous.

00:38:18.080 And we saw what happened on January 6th when he uses inflammatory rhetoric now.

00:38:23.080 And his recent true social post is incredibly, incredibly scary for anyone that might be trying to work in government.

00:38:35.080 And it is just unquestionable at this point that that man cannot see public office again.

00:38:43.080 He is not only unfit.

00:38:45.080 He is destructive to our democracy. 0.99

00:38:48.080 And he has to be he has to be eliminated.

00:38:52.080 I'm not saying it's probable.

00:38:54.080 I'm saying it's possible.

00:38:56.080 We saw which is possible.

00:39:00.080 I'm about to say because I want to preface this because I'm about to say something controversial and dramatic.

00:39:04.080 And I want you to understand that I'm not I'm not saying this will happen.

00:39:07.080 But Javier Bolsonaro was stabbed and also killed days before his election.

00:39:13.080 Assassination does happen.

00:39:15.080 The people there is so much at stake here, not just trillions of dollars, but the fate of wars and democracy.

00:39:21.080 There could be no greater stakes than whether or not Donald Trump wins in 2024.

00:39:26.080 And the people who have weaponized the entire government system against him are surely not above, I hate to say it, assassination.

00:39:35.080 And what do you what do you think of that?

00:39:37.080 I'm worried. That's what I'm worried about.

00:39:38.080 It's a country with 400 million firearms.

00:39:43.080 And so and of course, there have been four assassinated presidents.

00:39:51.080 So you can't dismiss it in any case, you know, and there were attempts like on Gerald Ford and Harry Truman and others.

00:39:58.080 President Roosevelt as president elect, Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt, both of them.

00:40:04.080 And so you can't you can't say it can't happen.

00:40:08.080 But I have intense political and philosophical animosity towards Trump's unreasonable critics like Nadler, like Schiff, the people who tried to impeach him and the and all the dirty trick specialists in the Democratic Party.

00:40:27.080 I mean, I don't I don't you know, I'm from Quebec. I don't really believe in pristine politics.

00:40:32.080 I understand it's a rough game and you do what you can to get elected.

00:40:35.080 But you you draw the line, you know, at a reasonable place.

00:40:38.080 And I don't think that even Schiff or Nadler, for example, would would be interested.

00:40:45.080 I think they'd be highly consolable if he was assassinated.

00:40:48.080 But I don't think they'd have anything to do with the commission.

00:40:50.080 I don't think they would either. But but all those ex CIA this, ex FBI this.

00:40:54.080 You can't say it couldn't happen. But but I I I think if it happens, it's because a kook does it, not because. 0.99

00:41:01.080 Because those who have corrupted the justice system would say, right, there's only one bridge we haven't crossed.

00:41:07.080 This is what we've got. We've got to kill this guy. 1.00

00:41:09.080 I just don't think they would do that. 1.00

00:41:11.080 Why? Maybe I'm being naive. I sure hope you're right.

00:41:12.080 I look at some of those old CIA bosses and who are still milling around.

00:41:16.080 Oh, you know, Clapper and what's his name?

00:41:21.080 John.

00:41:22.080 I think they're not above anything.

00:41:24.080 And I and even some of those senior FBI officials.

00:41:27.080 Assassinating a presidential candidate.

00:41:29.080 Some of them boast about their assassinations.

00:41:32.080 Well, they both lied to Congress about about lying to Congress.

00:41:36.080 Yeah.

00:41:37.080 Let me put it this way. If if they are not above coups in another country and if they actually believe some of them say that Donald Trump is as bad as Hitler, that can't possibly be true.

00:41:47.080 But if they actually believed it, wouldn't they do anything to stop Hitler from becoming president again? 0.84

00:41:53.080 If you actually in your bones felt he was like Hitler, why wouldn't you take him up by any means? 0.97

00:41:58.080 It's like that thought experiment. If you could go back in time, would you assassinate Hitler if you had a time machine? 0.53

00:42:03.080 Well, I think they would. I mean, I don't like to be a psychoanalyst to people I don't know personally, but or indeed, even though I do know, though, I'm not a psychoanalyst.

00:42:12.080 But I think they would make a distinction between Hitler and someone elevated by the American political system.

00:42:20.080 I think even James Clapper, the former director of national intelligence, for example, who has publicly stated that he thought Trump was a Russian intelligence asset.

00:42:33.080 I mean, how great an intelligence chief of this guy. But even he, I think, would feel that assassinating an American political leader was a bad thing.

00:42:42.080 He would say that. But Xi Jinping might not say that. And the Ayatollahs of Iran.

00:42:47.080 Look, for a foreign power to get into it, then you're really asking for trouble. 1.00

00:42:51.080 Well, I'm just engaging in speculating.

00:42:53.080 No, I think there are in America kooks who might try it.

00:42:56.080 But I would be hopeful that this security apparatus around these political leaders would prevent it.

00:43:02.080 I hope so. By the way, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has had a difficult time getting security.

00:43:08.080 Well, that's just that's just the Democratic establishment trying to discourage him.

00:43:14.080 I find him interesting. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like the fact he's contrarian.

00:43:18.080 He's a kook. I have nothing against him. 1.00

00:43:20.080 I'm not anti-Kennedy, but, you know, a guy who says my father and my uncle were murdered by the CIA.

00:43:26.080 I mean, I just don't believe that.

00:43:28.080 Well, someone murdered him.

00:43:30.080 Listen, Conrad Black, great to catch up with.

00:43:32.080 You know, we started talking about the book and I just want to mention one more time.

00:43:35.080 We've been showing we have the civil right to speak our minds.

00:43:38.080 That's right.

00:43:39.080 The book is called Forgotten History, Civil Rights in Canada.

00:43:41.080 It's published by our cousins over the Democracy Fund.

00:43:44.080 You can get the book at ForgottenHistoryBook.com.

00:43:48.080 And it always bugs me when people say freedom.

00:43:51.080 That's an American word.

00:43:52.080 No, it is not.

00:43:53.080 That is a Canadian word.

00:43:54.080 It's in our Chart of Rights and Freedoms.

00:43:55.080 It's in Diefenbaker's Bill of Rights.

00:43:58.080 And it's much more important than that.

00:44:00.080 It is in our lived history for centuries.

00:44:03.080 And I'm glad you wrote this.

00:44:04.080 And it's nice to see you again.

00:44:05.080 Thank you.

00:44:06.080 Thank you very much for coming.

00:44:07.080 Good to see you again.

00:44:08.080 All right.

00:44:09.080 Well, there you have it.

00:44:10.080 Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:44:13.080 to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.

00:44:17.080 .

Rebel News Podcast - November 25, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Canada’s forgotten civil rights history, with Lord Conrad Black

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