Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Counter-tariffs won't deter Trump from putting America First

00:00:00.200 Well, one of my favorite guys is Joel Pollack. Last I visited him in person was when he toured

00:00:05.960 me around the Pacific Palisades. All the houses that were burnt down, his was singed, but

00:00:11.640 not burnt to the ground. Thank God. We're going to talk today about Canada-U.S. relations.

00:00:15.820 I really haven't ever talked to Joel about that before. We always talk about domestic

00:00:19.240 U.S. politics, but Canada-U.S. are loggerheads. What does it mean? We'll talk to him about

00:00:24.660 that. But first, let me invite you to get a subscription to what we call Rebel News

00:00:28.520 Plus. That's the video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com, click

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00:01:22.940 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:26.060 Well, the last time we talked to Joel Pollack, unfortunately, we were surveying the wreckage 0.75

00:01:39.540 in the Pacific Palisades, the neighborhood in Los Angeles, California, that was burnt to a crisp.

00:01:44.640 Thankfully, Joel's own house was spared, although the whole neighborhood, including

00:01:49.800 the infrastructure to live there, was gone. So he had to live somewhere else. I was shocked to see

00:01:56.420 the mayor of Los Angeles say it could be three to five years before anyone, before the area is

00:02:04.540 rebuilt. And I believe it. We were just in Maui a year and a half hour, the fires there. And I would

00:02:10.480 say at most, 5% of the lots have the first inklings of reconstruction. It's really a disaster.

00:02:17.840 Hopefully, he'll do well. We'll talk with him maybe for a minute about that. But really,

00:02:22.900 Canada-U.S. relations have been at the center of our country over the last few weeks, more so than

00:02:27.860 at any time since the 1988 federal election, where Brian Mulroney was championing a free trade deal

00:02:36.620 that was to transform our relationship with the United States. Since that time, we've sort of got

00:02:41.800 along with the U.S. pretty calmly, even when our leaders were naturally opposed to each other.

00:02:46.700 Stephen Harper and Barack Obama couldn't have been more different, but both were professional

00:02:50.420 enough not to let their personal disputes become a quarrel. In fact, to Obama's credit,

00:02:56.580 he didn't disrespect Harper by nixing the Keystone XL pipeline until Justin Trudeau

00:03:02.200 actually took office. Well, let's get straight to it. Joining us now via Skype from somewhere in

00:03:07.720 California is our friend Joel Pollack, senior editor-at-large at Breitbart.com. Joel,

00:03:11.800 good to see you. How is your neighborhood going? Give us a short update on that first.

00:03:19.140 Well, Ezra, there are a number of obstacles still arriving every day, really new challenges as people

00:03:25.940 are trying to rebuild. But we are making our way through day by day. And there's a lot of demolition

00:03:32.180 going on, which is good. A lot of trucks, very hard to get in and get out. When you were there,

00:03:36.340 it was the end of January, and they hadn't yet started removing the debris. That has begun now.

00:03:42.180 So the Army Corps of Engineers and private contractors are moving into the neighborhood

00:03:47.220 and clearing debris. New construction hasn't started yet. That's where the obstacles come in.

00:03:51.740 There are all kinds of financial obstacles and bureaucratic obstacles, but hopefully

00:03:55.080 we'll overcome them.

00:03:56.900 Just give me one more second. The mayor, am I correct to say that she said this could be

00:04:02.380 three to five years in the making. Now, that sounds very opposite to that fire hall,

00:04:08.540 town hall meeting that you were at with the president, where he was very much focused on

00:04:12.720 urgency. Has this go slow or go fast dispute been resolved?

00:04:19.420 Well, it really depends what you mean. When she's talking about five years, what does she mean? It

00:04:23.880 wasn't really clear to me what she meant. It is conceivable that the entire city could recover

00:04:28.740 in five years and look completely new with no empty lots and no other problems. I mean,

00:04:35.280 if everything goes well, there's actually a sort of best case scenario that the county,

00:04:39.960 not the city, the county has prepared that says, yes, if everything goes right, if the rebuilding

00:04:43.680 starts right away, in five years, things could look pretty normal. But things could be almost normal

00:04:50.200 within about two to three years. So that means there might be some debris, there might still be some

00:04:56.680 construction, some empty lots and so forth. But two years out or so, you should start to see the

00:05:01.440 Palisades become relatively inhabitable with some people returning to their homes full time and some

00:05:08.240 grocery stores and other amenities available and returning basically to the status of being a

00:05:13.460 livable community. Yeah. Well, I tell you, we went on from the Pacific Palisades to Maui,

00:05:19.940 and it was very pessimistic. People had given up. They had left the island of Maui, either to go to

00:05:26.780 another island or back to the US mainland. There were still disputes, political disputes about what

00:05:33.640 would become of some of the prestigious real estate. Would it be turned into a developed

00:05:38.480 tourist place? Would it be an eco place? So it's, they really feel forgotten out there. And everyone

00:05:45.180 we spoke to in Maui had cautionary tales for Los Angeles. It was really quite heartbreaking.

00:05:52.220 Well, listen, thanks again for touring us around your neighborhood. I can only imagine how emotionally

00:05:56.480 difficult it was. That was your home. And you were touring us around on a journalistic mission. So

00:06:02.740 thanks for that. So let's switch gears and talk about Canada-US relations. It's really not something

00:06:07.460 that you and I have ever spoken about. We've probably talked to each other 40 times over the course of

00:06:12.680 time. We're usually talking about US domestic politics. Sometimes we're talking about the

00:06:17.060 Middle East or foreign politics. I really have never seen this much Canada-US politics, really,

00:06:22.500 in almost 40 years. And even then, it was a Canadian internal debate about how friendly we get to the US.

00:06:28.840 We've never had this kind of sparring with the US before. And it is disconcerting to many people.

00:06:35.760 And I don't think Canada knows how to reply. Some Canadian politicians are trying to out

00:06:41.140 tough guy Donald Trump. And I don't think that's going to work. Others are trying to ignore some of

00:06:48.800 the more personal jibes. How does it look to you? Is this whole thing just some internet trolling by

00:06:54.540 the president who's famous for giving his critics mean nicknames?

00:06:58.220 No, I think Trump is trying to bring Canada and Mexico onto the same page as the United States

00:07:04.700 when it comes to fentanyl and other policies. I think he prefers to see himself as the leader of

00:07:10.620 North America, not just of the United States. And he wants to confront the challenge of China 0.99

00:07:16.160 really speaking for the entire continent and not just the United States. It's not that he needs

00:07:21.700 Canadian support necessarily. But I think there is a sense in the United States that Canada

00:07:25.960 is off on its own direction with regard to China, at least under Justin Trudeau.

00:07:30.880 So I think he's trying to bring everybody into step more than anything else. Yes, he also believes

00:07:37.940 in tariffs economically. He believes that they're good for the economy, that they raise revenue and so

00:07:42.800 forth. And once upon a time, they did. But you'll find many economists today who point to some of the

00:07:47.980 negative effects of tariffs and so forth. I think Trump is also determined to show that the United States

00:07:53.180 can take more pain than any other country. So I don't think that any amount of retaliation is actually going

00:08:00.760 to shake him from this course. It could damage American consumers, damage the American economy to some

00:08:05.620 extent. And he, in a sense, is suggesting he's prepared to take some of that in order to win these trade

00:08:12.180 battles, whether it's with Canada or China or Europe and so forth. So I think this is about Trump assuming a

00:08:18.640 mantle of leadership economically, politically, geopolitically, militarily, and moving forward.

00:08:24.640 He really is trying to redesign the world away from the chaos and the drift of the last couple of

00:08:29.640 decades and take strategic control of places like Greenland, like the Cape of Good Hope and elsewhere,

00:08:35.760 where he wants to do what China has been trying to do, which is to dominate the most important sea

00:08:42.160 lanes and to dominate space and to dominate key strategic points. And so I think he wants Canada

00:08:48.480 completely on board. And the irony is that even though it's a trade war, I think the things that

00:08:53.700 Canada could do to avoid the trade war have nothing to do with trade or tariffs. They largely have to do

00:08:58.540 with border enforcement and a kind of harmonization of diplomatic and military policies.

00:09:04.020 You know, I think a lot of what you said is right. And there's a moral hazard in negotiating with

00:09:11.940 Justin Trudeau and that he's leaving in a week. So he can't make a deal. And he likes to go out as

00:09:17.760 Captain Canada, who stood up to Trump. That's a better way to end his sordid decade in the public

00:09:23.420 square. And even his would be successors, there's a race on in the Liberal Party to find a successor.

00:09:29.460 And it'll likely be eco banker, Mark Carney, who used to be the head of the Bank of England,

00:09:37.260 before that, the head of the Bank of Canada. He's at the World Economic Forum. He was a director

00:09:41.720 there. He was the United Nations ambassador for Net Zero. So he is, he's sort of an Al Gore

00:09:50.480 kind of figure. He's sort of your central casting Canadian, basically.

00:09:55.540 Yeah, but, but too big for Canada. Does he also drink Mulsons and watch hockey or,

00:10:00.040 you know, what does he do? But he was, he sort of left Canada to make his fortune. He,

00:10:04.060 he has an Irish passport and a Canadian passport. He was the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management,

00:10:09.660 sort of a, a baby BlackRock. So he's, he's sort of like an oligarch. I know Brookfield, sure.

00:10:15.620 So anyhow, he's, he'll. Well, look, I mean, let me, let me just, let me, it doesn't really matter.

00:10:20.960 But everything you told me about this, you told me in the first sentence, which is that Justin

00:10:25.620 Trudeau is leaving in a week. And I regret not being better informed about Canadian affairs. I

00:10:30.380 knew he was leaving. I didn't know when. Now this all makes sense to me in a way it didn't before.

00:10:34.840 So you can see the wheels turning on television here. But if Trump knows Trudeau is leaving,

00:10:40.720 then of course, Trump is going to pile on the punishment until Trudeau leaves. And then Trump is

00:10:45.500 going to say that it's because of Trump that Trudeau left or quit or was thrown out. It's,

00:10:51.520 it's a win that he can portray as a win, even though it was happening anyway. That's

00:10:55.680 how Trump does things. He sees opportunities for symbolic victories and he takes them. And so

00:11:01.840 in a sense, yes, I think the trade war will continue until Justin Trudeau leaves office. And

00:11:07.260 then I think Trump will declare victory and maybe both sides will be willing to compromise. Maybe the

00:11:12.400 new Canadian government will come in and offer Trump some of what he's been asking for.

00:11:16.380 But also I think it's possible Trump might back off as long as he can claim victory from Trudeau.

00:11:21.580 That would be my guess as to what would happen.

00:11:25.360 You know, I, I, I'm starting to feel that way because he put our tariffs on about a month ago and

00:11:31.100 then immediately took them off. And then he put them on a couple of days ago and then immediately took

00:11:34.860 them off. And I, I watch Howard Letnick, his commerce secretary, who I think is, is, he's smart. He's

00:11:43.360 very close to the president. He's, he talks about, he's really into international commerce. That's his

00:11:47.940 title. That's his job. He was the head of Canada Fitzgerald before this. And I think he lacks, I mean,

00:11:54.860 he's got a lot of chutzpah. He's a larger than life personality, but he doesn't have some of the Trump

00:11:59.320 drama. So I, I look to Letnick as sort of a interpreter of what Trump is doing. And I, he,

00:12:06.540 it's almost like Letnick is saying, Hey guys, it's going to be okay. We're just going through

00:12:10.900 this because we need you to bend the knee a little bit more. Don't freak out. Like, I feel like when

00:12:15.500 you listen to Trump, go hear what Letnick has to say for what is actually going to happen. I mean,

00:12:20.000 I don't doubt that the president is the boss and I don't doubt that he has a certain goal, but I,

00:12:25.900 I find it reassuring that a man who is in the business of business is his right-hand man. I'm not

00:12:32.000 sure what, what to make of that, but I find like it's just tariffs on the auto sector really would

00:12:41.600 work in Mexico because you bring the factory up to America. But in Ontario, our auto sector is right

00:12:48.320 across the river from Detroit. And the, the same automobile is made on each side of the river. That

00:12:54.880 vehicle goes back and forth. And so some of the biggest objectors to the tariffs were from Michigan.

00:13:00.120 They were saying, you're actually sort of smashing us. And then the other major part of,

00:13:05.580 of Canadian exports to the U S by far the largest is oil. And the thing is, you can't move the oil

00:13:12.180 sands to the United States through taxes. They just can't move them. So I feel like the tariff weapon,

00:13:19.840 which could be used against China or Mexico in certain ways, I feel like it sort of doesn't

00:13:25.060 fit in the Canada U S context because I mean, and by the way, last comment, who do you think owns

00:13:32.680 Ford Canada, GM Canada? Who do you think owns half the oil sands companies? They're American companies

00:13:39.100 on this side of the border anyways. So I feel like tariffs aren't even designed for our relationship.

00:13:44.540 Am I being too, I don't know, too, uh, Pollyannish?

00:13:51.200 I think Canada could do very well in this whole confrontation by giving up certain things that

00:13:58.200 don't really cost Canada anything to give up. I think the new incoming prime minister, if he's so

00:14:04.360 inclined, if his world economic forum ties don't lead him in the wrong direction, I think he could

00:14:09.820 make a far greater show of surging support to border enforcement of working with Donald Trump

00:14:17.860 on combating fentanyl. You know, Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor was on Fox news earlier this

00:14:23.180 week, and he talked about how some of the fentanyl manufacturers are moving their pill factories

00:14:28.700 to Canada. If that's true, it'd be great to see Canada cracking down on that, you know, give Trump

00:14:34.080 the fentanyl enforcement that he wants and send the message that Canada is in this fight with him.

00:14:42.360 And I would put it exactly that way. And then I think the response will be very warm. This really

00:14:48.260 isn't about protecting American industries from Canada. Although I will say that Trump's principle

00:14:54.520 of reciprocity, that whatever Canada does in terms of tariffs or non-tariff barriers to trade,

00:14:59.680 the United States is going to exact a similar price. I think that's very popular. I mean,

00:15:05.320 even if it means there are some, quote unquote, retaliatory tariffs, I think that the principle

00:15:11.340 of reciprocity is actually going to be very popular and very effective. And economists actually are okay

00:15:16.440 with it as a means to generally lowering tariffs. Because once you're going to get charged exactly what

00:15:22.900 you charge others, then you might think twice about charging people or subsidizing industries,

00:15:26.660 which are those subsidies can be non-tariff barriers to trade. So

00:15:31.160 I think it's relatively painless for Canada actually to bring this to an end. It just

00:15:36.320 requires new leadership. Look, don't forget also Trudeau is part of the international global elite

00:15:42.280 that mocked Donald Trump. Literally, there were those open mic video moments recorded with Trudeau

00:15:49.220 and Boris Johnson having a laugh at Trump's expense, just the way the Germans laughed at Trump's expense 0.60

00:15:53.560 until Russia essentially ate their lunch. You know, I think it's just about leadership. And it's about

00:15:59.820 telling Donald Trump and the American people that we respect your leadership now.

00:16:04.900 Trudeau never respected, well, first of all, he never respected Canadians, I don't think. But

00:16:09.100 I think he just couldn't find it in himself, really, to respect Donald Trump, except in this

00:16:15.440 obsequious way, which didn't earn him any points with Americans. You know, when he rushed down to

00:16:20.640 Mar-a-Lago, it certainly didn't endear him to Canadians, but I don't think he won any appeal

00:16:24.100 from the American public either. And that's why Trump continues to belittle him. He's the governor

00:16:29.380 of Canada and so forth. I think Trump knows Canada is obviously a sovereign nation. It's a very large

00:16:34.680 country, not easy to govern from Washington. The history of American efforts to take over Canada is

00:16:40.800 a rather sad one. So, I mean, look, culturally, yes. And we've stolen all your comedians,

00:16:46.580 but, you know, some of your hockey players. But, you know, I think that the relationship is going

00:16:52.560 to be excellent going forward. I just think that Canada needs to get on board on fentanyl and look

00:16:58.920 on China in general. Canada has a different relationship with China. It's one I think that

00:17:03.080 was far too close in previous years. It's one that became problematic with the arrest in China of

00:17:09.820 Canadian citizens, the unjust arrest in retaliation for Canada helping the United States arrest a Chinese

00:17:16.040 executive. I think that Canada and the United States have to be unified on China. And that

00:17:20.120 includes fentanyl. Fentanyl comes from China. The components come from China. And I think once

00:17:24.940 Trump senses that Canada is going to follow his leadership rather than try to act as a kind of

00:17:30.360 alternative America, you know, that's how Trudeau seems to us down here. Like he's the nicer version

00:17:36.140 of whatever exists on the North American continent. You know, he's not like those Americans. He believes in 0.72

00:17:41.020 climate change and he likes Bollywood and, you know, he wears blackface or whatever, whatever it is he

00:17:46.380 thinks will appeal to people. I mean, but, you know, he's he's he is in a sense playing a character

00:17:52.440 role Trudeau is or has done, which is that the Canadians are the nice Americans. American, I mean,

00:17:58.860 broadly in the North American sense, you know, and, you know, it was common for a while among American

00:18:03.600 backpackers during the Iraq war when Americans were getting accosted all across Europe. Americans would 0.75

00:18:09.040 sew a Canadian flag on their backpack so people would leave them alone because Canada does have that

00:18:13.420 interpretation of being nicer than Americans. But I think that era of alternative identity or kind of using

00:18:20.140 us as a foil for Canadian identity, I think I think that has to end and it absolutely can without without too

00:18:28.300 much cost from Canada. You know, I watched as the entire world watched the riveting interaction between

00:18:34.760 Vladimir Zelensky and Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance. And at first I just saw the short clips

00:18:42.040 where after, you know, omitting the first half hour of their friendly interaction, I started watching

00:18:50.420 really when Zelensky challenged J.D. Vance, what do you mean by diplomacy? How do you accept Putin? He broke

00:18:56.700 the like when Zelensky started talking back and sort of cross-examining J.D. Vance and and talking over

00:19:04.200 Trump. And I thought, oh, talking over Donald Trump is not something that I don't think he's ever

00:19:09.180 abided in his life. And but if you if you look at the longer exchange, it felt like Zelensky

00:19:15.300 wanted his cake and eat it and wanted to eat it too. And by that, I mean, he wanted to be able to spar

00:19:24.780 with Trump, disagree with Trump, maybe even embarrass Trump. Under his breath, he said, bitch towards J.D. 0.99

00:19:31.520 Vance, which is sort of a shocking lack of self-control. You can do that, but not if you're 0.99

00:19:40.240 taking hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons and funding and U.S. intelligence. Like you just

00:19:45.980 have to pick a lane. And when he went to Europe the next day and they said all the nice things to him,

00:19:52.200 but none of them had the boots on the ground, none of them had the army, none of the weapons. And I

00:19:56.620 think Zelensky in his own way was, you know, he he wanted all the good stuff of being a friend of

00:20:03.420 America. But he but in return, maybe he wasn't like you're never going to be America's equal,

00:20:09.840 but you can be Batman to America. You can be Robin to America's Batman. That's how I put it.

00:20:15.740 You know, you're a senior partner, a junior partner. There's no other country in the world in the West

00:20:19.900 that's going to be equally as dominant to the to the hyperpower. But if you want all the benefits,

00:20:27.020 like Canada gets the benefits of the free military protection. So maybe we shouldn't be so snippy

00:20:32.240 towards Trump. Maybe we shouldn't insist on our 285 percent tariffs on U.S. dairy goods. Maybe we

00:20:39.520 should allow American banks into our markets, which we don't really do. Maybe we should allow U.S.

00:20:44.940 cell phone companies. So they're they're actually quite minor things compared to what we get from

00:20:50.080 being America's best friend. But I think that for a generation, Joel, the entire world could sort of

00:20:56.520 flick at the giant and just assume the giant didn't feel it or didn't notice it. And I think Trump is

00:21:02.820 noticing and he wants people to pick a lane. You can either spar with us or be on our team. You can't

00:21:09.920 do both. The Europeans have been experts at doing both for a generation. And Canada, too. We have an

00:21:15.320 anti-Americanism in our blood. In fact, Trudeau, when he went down on, I think it was Anderson Cooper's show,

00:21:20.100 he was asked, what's the definition of a Canadian? He said, not an American. Canadians are incredibly proud of

00:21:25.400 being Canadian. One of the ways we define ourselves most easily is, well, we're not American. As if that's a dirty

00:21:31.780 thing to be. And that's what I mean. Like, it's just it's just not it's not good enough for Canada. It's not it's not

00:21:36.920 good for our relationship, but it's really that's that's not what it can mean to be Canadian. I'm

00:21:42.220 surprised he said that I hadn't actually seen that. Oh, he says that all the Canadians not an American

00:21:47.400 say that. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, in my own life, people ask, what's the content of being a

00:21:56.820 Jewish person? Right. And if your only response is, well, I'm Jewish because of anti-Semitism. Well,

00:22:02.660 then you're letting this other thing define you. And it's no way to go, really. I mean,

00:22:09.300 we all know identity. Yeah, there's no content to it. I mean, you've got to have some kind of

00:22:13.560 positive content to it. And I, you know, I joke about Molson's and hockey and things like that. But

00:22:18.040 Canada is a very special place. I mean, it's really a fantastic country with an incredible diversity of

00:22:26.620 geography and experiences. But look, it is a northern country. And it has this vast expanse

00:22:32.920 that is just incredible. You know, I used to look at maps of Canada, we took a road trip once when I

00:22:40.040 was a kid to Montreal, and we had a map of Canada. And I sat there in the front passenger seat next to

00:22:46.100 my dad when he was driving our old VW van from Chicago through Detroit, and then Toronto and Montreal,

00:22:51.820 and just marveling at this vast wilderness and everything in it. And, you know, Canada is an

00:22:58.480 amazing, amazing place with incredible people. I flew up to Canada back in December, I think it was

00:23:05.280 2022, with my daughter to see a cousin of mine, I actually have cousins on both sides of my family

00:23:11.360 in Toronto. And a cousin of mine was in production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.

00:23:16.580 And it was just so great to be in Canada. I mean, many things in Canada do feel comfortably close to

00:23:24.920 what we're used to in America. But the essence of being Canadian is something different. It's

00:23:32.180 something special. And I'm not Canadian. So maybe I'm not the best place to decide what that is or

00:23:37.740 ought to be. But there's something special about being Canadian, just as there's something special

00:23:42.560 about being American, but it's not the same thing. And yeah, we should an American, no one in the 0.91

00:23:48.120 United States says I'm not Canadian. Yeah, yeah, it would be. Although, you know, look, I do think 1.00

00:23:56.180 national identity has to be more than the metric system and the addition of the letter U into certain

00:24:01.040 words. You know, there's something to it. And, you know, we have fun with it. We have fun with a

00:24:07.940 little sibling rivalry, if you will, on the continent. And the hockey games, you know, were

00:24:13.740 thrilling. I mean, you know, the Canadians deserve to win, I think, because even though they lost that 1.00

00:24:18.880 first game, I saw in the Americans' faces in that hockey game that they didn't believe they could win

00:24:23.140 it. It was weird. There was just an extra fight, I think, the second time around, which is good. You

00:24:27.220 know, I think there's a very productive relationship to be had. I do think that the Trudeau version of

00:24:33.380 Canadianism, if you want to call it that, is a kind of parody of a stereotype that Americans have

00:24:42.400 about Canadians, which is that they're just too liberal, and too alternative. And if I can be,

00:24:50.780 you know, crude, I mean, too kind of unmanly. I mean, the carefully coiffed hair and stuff,

00:24:56.720 it doesn't actually represent any real Canadians you might encounter. But there's a kind of idea that,

00:25:01.740 yeah, we're the kinder, gentler version of America. And I think, yeah, if that's how Trudeau

00:25:08.160 styles himself, I'm not surprised that that's what his answer was. But, you know, Canadians are

00:25:11.940 tough, and Canadians are cool. And, you know, some of the greatest, you know, things are done by

00:25:19.160 Canadians. I mean, whatever. I'm starting to ramble here, and you'll have to forgive me on three hours

00:25:22.900 of sleep. Oh, well, listen, I'm grateful for your time. Yeah, let me throw something at you.

00:25:26.940 It's just, it's a special, special place that has to have its own identity on its own basis. And I

00:25:34.720 think it does. And look, again, I just think that the key to unraveling this whole dispute is

00:25:42.620 actually probably pretty simple. Let me throw something at you. I don't know if I told you,

00:25:47.360 but I just published a short book called Deal of the Century, The America First Plan for Canada's

00:25:53.620 Oil Sense. Joe, let me just take a minute on that. About a dozen years ago, I wrote a left-wing book

00:25:58.000 called Ethical Oil, The Case for Canada's Oil Sense. And I took all the arguments from the left,

00:26:04.160 who said they cared about the environment, peace, economic justice for workers, civil rights. And I

00:26:12.180 said, okay, if you really believe those things, let's compare Canadian oil with oil from everywhere

00:26:17.160 else in the world. And I put it to you, the Canadian oil is the fair trade coffee of the world's oil

00:26:22.100 industry. It was using left-wing values to make the case that don't buy from Saudi Arabia or OPEC or

00:26:27.300 Russia, buy from Alberta. Now, I think it's time to make the America First case for Canadian oil. And I

00:26:35.800 wrote the book trying to think, well, how does Donald Trump think? He thinks, take world assets away

00:26:41.860 from China. He talks about big real estate deals in Greenland or Panama or even Gaza. And he wants

00:26:50.780 things in return for economic access to the states. So I thought, well, there's 170 billion barrels of

00:26:58.300 oil in Canada's oil sands. That's enough to make all of America's, fill all of America's important

00:27:07.240 needs to get rid of all the Saudi and other OPEC countries. Canada can fulfill it for 50 years, 0.97

00:27:13.540 a 50-year deal, $13 trillion worth at today's prices. And I thought, sign a deal for all the

00:27:22.100 oil. It's better than annexing Canada because you get the good stuff, the oil, without the hassle,

00:27:28.900 you know, a French quarter that wants to be bilingual, the electoral college that's going to

00:27:33.500 go Democrat most of the time.

00:27:35.220 I don't think, I mean, look, sorry to interrupt you. I don't even think you need to make, I mean,

00:27:39.200 look, it's a wonderful case to make. I just don't think you even need to make that. I think there

00:27:44.060 are certain symbolic issues that Trudeau took a stand on that did sour the relationship between

00:27:50.220 the two governments. I remember just off the top of my head when he was asked, for example,

00:27:56.800 would he honor an international criminal court warrant against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of

00:28:01.340 Israel? And he said he would. I mean, that's just insane. It's insane. And the United States is not

00:28:06.540 party to the international criminal court for that reason. Because before they started going

00:28:11.420 after the Israelis, they were coming after us. The first people to be targeted in this way by the 1.00

00:28:16.040 ICC were U.S. military personnel who had served in Afghanistan. And the ICC started investigating

00:28:23.200 American soldiers. And that's when, under the first Trump administration, they slapped sanctions

00:28:28.080 on the ICC and barred them from entering the United States and refused to issue them visas.

00:28:32.100 And that was the reason Trump opposed the ICC. Now, we weren't party to the ICC anyway. It had

00:28:38.660 no jurisdiction over Americans. But when they decided that jurisdiction didn't matter and the

00:28:43.120 fact that we didn't sign a treaty didn't matter and they could investigate us anyway as a matter of

00:28:47.280 customary international law, that's when Trump said, OK, enough is enough. We're going to protect

00:28:51.500 our military. Trudeau then gives legitimacy to that court by saying, oh, yeah, we'll honor these

00:28:56.160 arrest warrants because, you know, we're we're signatories to the Rome statute and we have to do

00:28:59.920 that. I mean, that's so absurd. It's against American interests directly and it's against Israel, 0.58

00:29:06.680 obviously. But it also just suggests a Canada that has been overrun not by liberalism, which,

00:29:12.260 you know, we kind of laugh at a little bit and enjoy, but it's overrun by radicalism. And that's

00:29:18.920 something I think that really put Americans off. So there are a few things like that. I think that

00:29:24.020 that Trudeau did and, you know, mocking Trump with Boris Johnson and so forth. And, you know,

00:29:32.600 in the last few days, you know, thundering about how he's going to defend Ukraine when when, you

00:29:38.200 know, Canada has 63 fighter aircraft and they're going to send something like 16 or 17 to Ukraine.

00:29:42.620 I mean, it's like, you know, a massive proportion of Canada's air force. I mean, you know, it's just

00:29:48.040 it's absurd. They're 40 year old jets, I should tell you. Joel, I don't even know if we have that

00:29:52.700 many that fly. They're CF-18s from the 70s and 80s. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

00:29:59.120 I don't know if you know this. Canada did not participate in the last European

00:30:02.040 NATO exercises, the largest NATO exercises in years. Canada was not there because we could not

00:30:07.820 interoperate. We didn't have the machinery or the men. Canada wasn't there. Right. So Trudeau

00:30:14.300 postures as this great friend of Ukraine. Right. But he can't actually back it up. So I think that kind

00:30:19.500 of thing irritates Americans. It irritates it because then it feels like you're doing that

00:30:23.620 based on our defense and our economy. And, you know, you're you're you're dissenting from our

00:30:30.040 way of doing things, which is you're right, of course, but you're doing it while also benefiting

00:30:35.260 from American protection and largesia. I'm not trying to come across the wrong way. I'm just telling

00:30:40.120 you how some Americans see Trudeau's antics. So I think Trump isn't just waiting for Trudeau to leave

00:30:46.340 office. I think he's ushering him out the door. And I think Trump very much wants to be seen as

00:30:50.500 the person who got rid of Trudeau. And then after that, I think you'll see things open up a little

00:30:55.820 bit more. But Trump again, Trump looks for these symbolic victories that he can really

00:31:00.800 hang on a flagpole or something. I mean, he, you know, so I think Canada can give him some of those

00:31:09.000 at a very low cost, very low cost to Canada or to Canadian sovereignty and independence. I mean,

00:31:14.640 I think I was put off a little bit by I think the premier of Ontario was at Ford, who was on our

00:31:22.640 television. I mean, I thought he made a very good case against the tariffs and how much they could

00:31:27.500 hurt industries on both sides. But then he started threatening American electrical consumers. I mean,

00:31:32.300 I didn't think that was appropriate. And he should have said something about fentanyl. And Peter Navarro,

00:31:38.060 the Trump trade advisor who was on right after him said, well, I didn't hear anything about fentanyl.

00:31:41.640 Would it really have killed Ford to say something about drugs? I mean, it's, it's again, it's so

00:31:47.100 easy. And you just have to snap yourself out of the Trudeau mentality. And, you know, just you can

00:31:53.040 be tough. And I know politicians want to look tough. And I understand that. But also offer a compromise

00:31:59.040 to Trump, something he can hold up and wave and tell the American people, you see, I got this because

00:32:03.160 I made this tariff threat. And then everybody goes home happy. And, you know, you don't have to agree

00:32:07.640 with Trump. But there it is. Yeah, I think Doug Ford, he's trying to out bully Trump. I don't

00:32:14.840 think that's going to work. I see the premier of New Brunswick, a province of less than a million

00:32:19.640 souls, which supplies a lot of fuel and fuel oil to New England. The largest refinery in Canada is in

00:32:27.260 New Brunswick. And it serves New England. She's talking about cutting New England off from home 0.82

00:32:32.200 heating oil. Yeah, you know, I was going to say this earlier, all of that would have been more

00:32:35.640 effective if it were done in October or November. But we're coming out of winter right now. So

00:32:39.480 nobody cares. You know, you're going to threaten the electricity and threaten the oil. I mean,

00:32:43.100 it just looks stupid. I mean, you know, so I understand it, right? I understand. And Canadian, 1.00

00:32:50.340 I've also, you know, heard Canadians feel hurt and upset. Why is he taking on oxygen?

00:32:53.900 Some of that's true. Now that you can believe.

00:32:57.860 Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm not discounting that. I'm saying that's real. So I get that. I get that.

00:33:02.840 But again, there's something else happening there as well, which is Trump is really confronting

00:33:10.380 countries like South Africa, which is in a strategically important location and is siding 1.00

00:33:14.880 with China and Russia and Iran. And the South Africans are saying, wow, he's going after Canada.

00:33:21.580 I mean, if Trump's going after America's best friend, he's really going to come after us.

00:33:26.680 So it's also partly about projecting a threat to countries that aren't so friendly with us.

00:33:30.680 I think that's a lot of it. Pour encourager les autres, as they'd say in French. And I think

00:33:36.660 that's what it is. And I think, and for all the fake friends in Europe and NATO, I tell you,

00:33:43.360 Joel, I just can't get enough of these tiny little countries in Europe, like the prime minister of

00:33:48.100 Luxembourg, who says, we stand, we stand with Ukraine. I looked it up. They have 939 soldiers in

00:33:55.000 the whole, it's a city. It's not a country, but he's the prime minister or Kaya Kalas, the new

00:34:00.160 foreign minister for Europe. She's from Estonia, population 1.3 million. And I got nothing against

00:34:05.580 Estonia. I'm not being mean. I'm just saying they're, they're cosplaying. They're, they're

00:34:10.120 dressing. It's like a costume party.

00:34:11.980 Well, we know Trudeau is very good at that.

00:34:13.520 Yeah. Well, and, but that's the thing is, is none of them is the, the, at the end of the day,

00:34:21.360 it's America. And, and I think Canada, in some ways, Trump is right. We have, and I don't think

00:34:28.720 we, we hid it. We had free healthcare for a generation because America paid for our national

00:34:34.720 defense. And, and I think that's true. And I, I think that Trump is saying, I mean, look at his

00:34:42.820 offer to Canadians, come on over, join us as the 51st state. We'll give you American dollars and

00:34:47.760 we'll give you a good military protection. And by the way, that's not a bad offer. Now it, it

00:34:51.880 doesn't deal with the emotional and loyal pride and patriotism that a lot of people have. I, the

00:34:59.060 analogy I use is like going up to a married person and saying, would you like to marry me? I know 0.97

00:35:04.400 you're not divorced right now. A lot of people would feel deeply offended by that, but someone who

00:35:09.320 is contemplating a divorce anyways might say, okay. And I, if you want to stop Trump from doing

00:35:14.720 that, you'll say, all you have to do is say, we agree to be the 51st state on condition that you

00:35:19.960 accept the metric system. That'll end the conversation. Well, I mean, there's a lot of

00:35:24.060 little quirks like that. Like I, like I mentioned French and English bilingualism. Well, how do you

00:35:28.780 think? That actually is not, that could be popular. I mean, you've got New England, a lot of people

00:35:33.340 speak French. New Orleans, down, down there, Louisiana, a little bit. We're, we're, we're in

00:35:39.760 some ways, you know, Trump declared English our official language, you know, and it was about time,

00:35:43.700 but we are practically speaking often a bilingual country, you know, here in Los Angeles, you hear

00:35:48.120 Spanish all the time, you know, in my area. Now, now where I'm living, you know, we hear Farsi and

00:35:53.200 Hebrew and, you know, everything. Listen, I don't want to take up too much of your time, but what I'm

00:35:57.760 leaving with is that you think a lot of this last minute banter by Trump is just basically kicking

00:36:04.300 Trudeau as he exits the door. Because first of all, why not? Second of all, Trudeau, it's ridiculous

00:36:11.660 that he's even negotiating or anything. And he, by the way, he's not just hiding, like he dissolved

00:36:16.560 parliament because they were going to vote him out. So he, he suspended parliament. Like he, he really

00:36:21.580 is being cowardly. He's wringing out these last few hours. I, maybe you're right. I think 0.92

00:36:27.740 Trump, and maybe the new leader of the liberal party who will immediately become prime minister,

00:36:32.000 which is bizarre because he's not a member of the parliament. He's just a guy on the street. Well,

00:36:37.140 Brooke, uh, Brookfield Asset Management, who's going to become our new prime minister without

00:36:40.820 even a seat in parliament. He's just gone from a regular guy, regular guy who lives in three

00:36:47.460 different countries, three different passports on the board of directors of the World Economic Forum.

00:36:51.020 He's going to be selected as our prime minister. Let me throw one more tidbit to you, Joel.

00:36:55.900 Well, in the liberal leadership race that selects Mark Carney, foreign nationals are allowed to vote

00:37:03.980 in it. And kids as young as 14 are as allowed to vote in it. So you will have foreign children 1.00

00:37:10.140 choosing Trump's new counterpart in Canada. So I don't think the craziness is over just yet.

00:37:16.100 Last word to you, my friend.

00:37:17.160 Look, I think that, um, it's one of the most important partnerships in the world and it's

00:37:27.140 going to stay that way, but Canada, I think needs to become a little more like America in some

00:37:33.900 practical ways without losing its Canadian identity. I think that's what Trump is trying to say. So yes,

00:37:39.040 fentanyl, but also become a little more open to free enterprise and a little bit more open to a tough

00:37:45.800 stand against China, which hasn't always been the case. I mean, I know my impression is it's become

00:37:50.360 tougher since the arrests and, you know, the whole fiasco, but I think that Trump wants a unified front

00:37:56.620 against China. So when the Canadians say, why isn't he starting by picking out in China? I think it's because

00:38:00.360 he doesn't want Canada doing an end around and, uh, you know, uh, um, kind of developing ties with China

00:38:07.880 while America is stuck in a confrontation. So look, I think he wants North America to work in concert and this is

00:38:13.900 part of his way of doing it. I think it's also good. He's doing this at the start of his presidency.

00:38:17.780 You know, he's, he's getting all the unpleasant stuff out of the way early and leaving himself

00:38:22.620 so many ways of doing good things further down the road. He's done some good and fun and happy

00:38:27.960 things also, but you know, the tariffs in the beginning, the big mass firings of federal workers

00:38:33.200 in the beginning, the confrontations with China and with lately Ukraine because of Zelensky's behavior

00:38:43.220 out of the way in the beginning. I think this is setting him up to have a more successful presidency

00:38:47.860 and that'll benefit Canada as well as the United States. Well, I like your view and I would even call

00:38:53.440 it optimistic. And I think that's because we Canadians are obsessed with ourselves, whereas the United

00:38:59.140 States has a few other files on the go. I mean, I don't know if you know this, Joel, but all 13

00:39:03.940 Canadian premiers, it would be like all 50 U.S. governors went to the White House. Now they didn't

00:39:10.180 have a meeting with Trump, just all 13 went there and mid-level staffers met them. That was the day

00:39:16.420 the King of Jordan was there. I think the day before the Prime Minister, the President of India was

00:39:20.680 there, Prime Minister of India. Ukraine was, so it's a bit of chutzpah for 13, you know, it would be like 0.84

00:39:27.700 the smallest 13 governors demanding an audience. Trump was busy. Trudeau couldn't be bothered to

00:39:33.480 attend. But my point in telling you that is Trump had bigger fish to fry. It wasn't an insult that

00:39:40.100 he didn't meet with the Canadian premiers. He was trying to- Well, there's another thing going on

00:39:43.900 there. There's another thing going on there as well, which is that, look, Trump has already assigned an

00:39:49.620 ambassador to Canada. So Canada is actually high on the priority list. It's not that you're not.

00:39:53.740 The issue there is also that Democrats have put a hold on State Department confirmations. And so

00:40:01.400 in some ways, if you want to meet with senior diplomats, you're stuck with the President and

00:40:06.980 the Secretary of State, who might, as you point out, be otherwise engaged with heads of state and

00:40:10.440 things like that. And there just isn't the same infrastructure in place yet because Democrats are

00:40:16.260 using a parliamentary maneuver to withhold their approval of nominees to basically get back at Trump for

00:40:23.040 cutting USAID. And it's all politics. But that might have also been the problem. Look, though,

00:40:29.440 yes, the governors met with senior or the premiers met with more junior staff at the White House. But

00:40:35.680 Stephen Miller, who I think they met with, he may be the deputy chief of staff, but he's an extremely

00:40:41.340 powerful- Oh, he's amazing. It wasn't him.

00:40:43.540 Yeah. It wasn't him. Okay.

00:40:44.900 I think he's the most powerful guy in that White House other than Trump himself and maybe Letnick.

00:40:51.300 He's amazing, Stephen Miller.

00:40:52.960 You know, it's funny. In Israel, the most recent, he just left, but the most recent chief of staff of

00:41:00.080 the IDF was at the rank of lieutenant general, you know, as if he were sort of, you know, not quite

00:41:06.220 general enough. You know, I mean, sometimes the deputy is more powerful than the rank.

00:41:12.960 He's the keeper of the flame on everything from immigration to handling the media. When Stephen

00:41:17.320 Miller is deployed, I stop everything and listen. And he was, frankly, my favorite appointment in

00:41:23.440 the whole administration. I know you got to go. Thanks for being generous with your time.

00:41:26.700 You're welcome.

00:41:26.720 We've been talking with Joel Pollack, senior editor at large at Breitbart.com. Take care,

00:41:30.240 my friend. Thank you.

00:41:31.360 Thanks, Ezra.

00:41:31.860 Well, that's our show for today. Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World

00:41:37.400 Headquarters, to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - March 08, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Counter-tariffs won't deter Trump from putting America First

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