EZRA LEVANT ｜ Counter-tariffs won't deter Trump from putting America First
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Summary
Rebel News Plus is a subscription service from Rebel News that gives you access to all sorts of Rebel News content, including the latest in the news involving the fires in Los Angeles, California, and Canada-U.S. relations. This week, Ezra sits down with Joel Pollack, senior editor-at-large at Breitbart, to talk all things Canada and the United States.
Transcript
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Well, one of my favorite guys is Joel Pollack. Last I visited him in person was when he toured
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me around the Pacific Palisades. All the houses that were burnt down, his was singed, but
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not burnt to the ground. Thank God. We're going to talk today about Canada-U.S. relations.
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I really haven't ever talked to Joel about that before. We always talk about domestic
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U.S. politics, but Canada-U.S. are loggerheads. What does it mean? We'll talk to him about
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that. But first, let me invite you to get a subscription to what we call Rebel News
00:00:28.520
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head to rebelnewsstore.com to pick the patriotic gear that pleases your heart. And while you're there,
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Well, the last time we talked to Joel Pollack, unfortunately, we were surveying the wreckage
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in the Pacific Palisades, the neighborhood in Los Angeles, California, that was burnt to a crisp.
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Thankfully, Joel's own house was spared, although the whole neighborhood, including
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the infrastructure to live there, was gone. So he had to live somewhere else. I was shocked to see
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the mayor of Los Angeles say it could be three to five years before anyone, before the area is
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rebuilt. And I believe it. We were just in Maui a year and a half hour, the fires there. And I would
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say at most, 5% of the lots have the first inklings of reconstruction. It's really a disaster.
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Hopefully, he'll do well. We'll talk with him maybe for a minute about that. But really,
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Canada-U.S. relations have been at the center of our country over the last few weeks, more so than
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at any time since the 1988 federal election, where Brian Mulroney was championing a free trade deal
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that was to transform our relationship with the United States. Since that time, we've sort of got
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along with the U.S. pretty calmly, even when our leaders were naturally opposed to each other.
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Stephen Harper and Barack Obama couldn't have been more different, but both were professional
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enough not to let their personal disputes become a quarrel. In fact, to Obama's credit,
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he didn't disrespect Harper by nixing the Keystone XL pipeline until Justin Trudeau
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actually took office. Well, let's get straight to it. Joining us now via Skype from somewhere in
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California is our friend Joel Pollack, senior editor-at-large at Breitbart.com. Joel,
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good to see you. How is your neighborhood going? Give us a short update on that first.
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Well, Ezra, there are a number of obstacles still arriving every day, really new challenges as people
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are trying to rebuild. But we are making our way through day by day. And there's a lot of demolition
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going on, which is good. A lot of trucks, very hard to get in and get out. When you were there,
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it was the end of January, and they hadn't yet started removing the debris. That has begun now.
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So the Army Corps of Engineers and private contractors are moving into the neighborhood
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and clearing debris. New construction hasn't started yet. That's where the obstacles come in.
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There are all kinds of financial obstacles and bureaucratic obstacles, but hopefully
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Just give me one more second. The mayor, am I correct to say that she said this could be
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three to five years in the making. Now, that sounds very opposite to that fire hall,
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town hall meeting that you were at with the president, where he was very much focused on
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urgency. Has this go slow or go fast dispute been resolved?
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Well, it really depends what you mean. When she's talking about five years, what does she mean? It
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wasn't really clear to me what she meant. It is conceivable that the entire city could recover
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in five years and look completely new with no empty lots and no other problems. I mean,
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if everything goes well, there's actually a sort of best case scenario that the county,
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not the city, the county has prepared that says, yes, if everything goes right, if the rebuilding
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starts right away, in five years, things could look pretty normal. But things could be almost normal
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within about two to three years. So that means there might be some debris, there might still be some
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construction, some empty lots and so forth. But two years out or so, you should start to see the
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Palisades become relatively inhabitable with some people returning to their homes full time and some
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grocery stores and other amenities available and returning basically to the status of being a
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livable community. Yeah. Well, I tell you, we went on from the Pacific Palisades to Maui,
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and it was very pessimistic. People had given up. They had left the island of Maui, either to go to
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another island or back to the US mainland. There were still disputes, political disputes about what
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would become of some of the prestigious real estate. Would it be turned into a developed
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tourist place? Would it be an eco place? So it's, they really feel forgotten out there. And everyone
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we spoke to in Maui had cautionary tales for Los Angeles. It was really quite heartbreaking.
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Well, listen, thanks again for touring us around your neighborhood. I can only imagine how emotionally
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difficult it was. That was your home. And you were touring us around on a journalistic mission. So
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thanks for that. So let's switch gears and talk about Canada-US relations. It's really not something
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that you and I have ever spoken about. We've probably talked to each other 40 times over the course of
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time. We're usually talking about US domestic politics. Sometimes we're talking about the
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Middle East or foreign politics. I really have never seen this much Canada-US politics, really,
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in almost 40 years. And even then, it was a Canadian internal debate about how friendly we get to the US.
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We've never had this kind of sparring with the US before. And it is disconcerting to many people.
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And I don't think Canada knows how to reply. Some Canadian politicians are trying to out
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tough guy Donald Trump. And I don't think that's going to work. Others are trying to ignore some of
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the more personal jibes. How does it look to you? Is this whole thing just some internet trolling by
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the president who's famous for giving his critics mean nicknames?
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No, I think Trump is trying to bring Canada and Mexico onto the same page as the United States
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when it comes to fentanyl and other policies. I think he prefers to see himself as the leader of
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North America, not just of the United States. And he wants to confront the challenge of China
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really speaking for the entire continent and not just the United States. It's not that he needs
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Canadian support necessarily. But I think there is a sense in the United States that Canada
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is off on its own direction with regard to China, at least under Justin Trudeau.
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So I think he's trying to bring everybody into step more than anything else. Yes, he also believes
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in tariffs economically. He believes that they're good for the economy, that they raise revenue and so
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forth. And once upon a time, they did. But you'll find many economists today who point to some of the
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negative effects of tariffs and so forth. I think Trump is also determined to show that the United States
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can take more pain than any other country. So I don't think that any amount of retaliation is actually going
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to shake him from this course. It could damage American consumers, damage the American economy to some
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extent. And he, in a sense, is suggesting he's prepared to take some of that in order to win these trade
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battles, whether it's with Canada or China or Europe and so forth. So I think this is about Trump assuming a
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mantle of leadership economically, politically, geopolitically, militarily, and moving forward.
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He really is trying to redesign the world away from the chaos and the drift of the last couple of
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decades and take strategic control of places like Greenland, like the Cape of Good Hope and elsewhere,
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where he wants to do what China has been trying to do, which is to dominate the most important sea
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lanes and to dominate space and to dominate key strategic points. And so I think he wants Canada
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completely on board. And the irony is that even though it's a trade war, I think the things that
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Canada could do to avoid the trade war have nothing to do with trade or tariffs. They largely have to do
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with border enforcement and a kind of harmonization of diplomatic and military policies.
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You know, I think a lot of what you said is right. And there's a moral hazard in negotiating with
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Justin Trudeau and that he's leaving in a week. So he can't make a deal. And he likes to go out as
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Captain Canada, who stood up to Trump. That's a better way to end his sordid decade in the public
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square. And even his would be successors, there's a race on in the Liberal Party to find a successor.
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And it'll likely be eco banker, Mark Carney, who used to be the head of the Bank of England,
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before that, the head of the Bank of Canada. He's at the World Economic Forum. He was a director
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there. He was the United Nations ambassador for Net Zero. So he is, he's sort of an Al Gore
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kind of figure. He's sort of your central casting Canadian, basically.
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Yeah, but, but too big for Canada. Does he also drink Mulsons and watch hockey or,
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you know, what does he do? But he was, he sort of left Canada to make his fortune. He,
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he has an Irish passport and a Canadian passport. He was the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management,
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sort of a, a baby BlackRock. So he's, he's sort of like an oligarch. I know Brookfield, sure.
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So anyhow, he's, he'll. Well, look, I mean, let me, let me just, let me, it doesn't really matter.
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But everything you told me about this, you told me in the first sentence, which is that Justin
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Trudeau is leaving in a week. And I regret not being better informed about Canadian affairs. I
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knew he was leaving. I didn't know when. Now this all makes sense to me in a way it didn't before.
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So you can see the wheels turning on television here. But if Trump knows Trudeau is leaving,
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then of course, Trump is going to pile on the punishment until Trudeau leaves. And then Trump is
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going to say that it's because of Trump that Trudeau left or quit or was thrown out. It's,
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it's a win that he can portray as a win, even though it was happening anyway. That's
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how Trump does things. He sees opportunities for symbolic victories and he takes them. And so
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in a sense, yes, I think the trade war will continue until Justin Trudeau leaves office. And
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then I think Trump will declare victory and maybe both sides will be willing to compromise. Maybe the
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new Canadian government will come in and offer Trump some of what he's been asking for.
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But also I think it's possible Trump might back off as long as he can claim victory from Trudeau.
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That would be my guess as to what would happen.
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You know, I, I, I'm starting to feel that way because he put our tariffs on about a month ago and
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then immediately took them off. And then he put them on a couple of days ago and then immediately took
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them off. And I, I watch Howard Letnick, his commerce secretary, who I think is, is, he's smart. He's
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very close to the president. He's, he talks about, he's really into international commerce. That's his
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title. That's his job. He was the head of Canada Fitzgerald before this. And I think he lacks, I mean,
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he's got a lot of chutzpah. He's a larger than life personality, but he doesn't have some of the Trump
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drama. So I, I look to Letnick as sort of a interpreter of what Trump is doing. And I, he,
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it's almost like Letnick is saying, Hey guys, it's going to be okay. We're just going through
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this because we need you to bend the knee a little bit more. Don't freak out. Like, I feel like when
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you listen to Trump, go hear what Letnick has to say for what is actually going to happen. I mean,
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I don't doubt that the president is the boss and I don't doubt that he has a certain goal, but I,
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I find it reassuring that a man who is in the business of business is his right-hand man. I'm not
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sure what, what to make of that, but I find like it's just tariffs on the auto sector really would
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work in Mexico because you bring the factory up to America. But in Ontario, our auto sector is right
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across the river from Detroit. And the, the same automobile is made on each side of the river. That
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vehicle goes back and forth. And so some of the biggest objectors to the tariffs were from Michigan.
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They were saying, you're actually sort of smashing us. And then the other major part of,
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of Canadian exports to the U S by far the largest is oil. And the thing is, you can't move the oil
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sands to the United States through taxes. They just can't move them. So I feel like the tariff weapon,
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which could be used against China or Mexico in certain ways, I feel like it sort of doesn't
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fit in the Canada U S context because I mean, and by the way, last comment, who do you think owns
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Ford Canada, GM Canada? Who do you think owns half the oil sands companies? They're American companies
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on this side of the border anyways. So I feel like tariffs aren't even designed for our relationship.
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Am I being too, I don't know, too, uh, Pollyannish?
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I think Canada could do very well in this whole confrontation by giving up certain things that
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don't really cost Canada anything to give up. I think the new incoming prime minister, if he's so
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inclined, if his world economic forum ties don't lead him in the wrong direction, I think he could
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make a far greater show of surging support to border enforcement of working with Donald Trump
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on combating fentanyl. You know, Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor was on Fox news earlier this
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week, and he talked about how some of the fentanyl manufacturers are moving their pill factories
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to Canada. If that's true, it'd be great to see Canada cracking down on that, you know, give Trump
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the fentanyl enforcement that he wants and send the message that Canada is in this fight with him.
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And I would put it exactly that way. And then I think the response will be very warm. This really
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isn't about protecting American industries from Canada. Although I will say that Trump's principle
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of reciprocity, that whatever Canada does in terms of tariffs or non-tariff barriers to trade,
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the United States is going to exact a similar price. I think that's very popular. I mean,
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even if it means there are some, quote unquote, retaliatory tariffs, I think that the principle
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of reciprocity is actually going to be very popular and very effective. And economists actually are okay
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with it as a means to generally lowering tariffs. Because once you're going to get charged exactly what
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you charge others, then you might think twice about charging people or subsidizing industries,
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which are those subsidies can be non-tariff barriers to trade. So
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I think it's relatively painless for Canada actually to bring this to an end. It just
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requires new leadership. Look, don't forget also Trudeau is part of the international global elite
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that mocked Donald Trump. Literally, there were those open mic video moments recorded with Trudeau
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and Boris Johnson having a laugh at Trump's expense, just the way the Germans laughed at Trump's expense
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until Russia essentially ate their lunch. You know, I think it's just about leadership. And it's about
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telling Donald Trump and the American people that we respect your leadership now.
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Trudeau never respected, well, first of all, he never respected Canadians, I don't think. But
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I think he just couldn't find it in himself, really, to respect Donald Trump, except in this
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obsequious way, which didn't earn him any points with Americans. You know, when he rushed down to
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Mar-a-Lago, it certainly didn't endear him to Canadians, but I don't think he won any appeal
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from the American public either. And that's why Trump continues to belittle him. He's the governor
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of Canada and so forth. I think Trump knows Canada is obviously a sovereign nation. It's a very large
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country, not easy to govern from Washington. The history of American efforts to take over Canada is
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a rather sad one. So, I mean, look, culturally, yes. And we've stolen all your comedians,
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but, you know, some of your hockey players. But, you know, I think that the relationship is going
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to be excellent going forward. I just think that Canada needs to get on board on fentanyl and look
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on China in general. Canada has a different relationship with China. It's one I think that
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was far too close in previous years. It's one that became problematic with the arrest in China of
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Canadian citizens, the unjust arrest in retaliation for Canada helping the United States arrest a Chinese
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executive. I think that Canada and the United States have to be unified on China. And that
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includes fentanyl. Fentanyl comes from China. The components come from China. And I think once
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Trump senses that Canada is going to follow his leadership rather than try to act as a kind of
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alternative America, you know, that's how Trudeau seems to us down here. Like he's the nicer version
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of whatever exists on the North American continent. You know, he's not like those Americans. He believes in
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climate change and he likes Bollywood and, you know, he wears blackface or whatever, whatever it is he
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thinks will appeal to people. I mean, but, you know, he's he's he is in a sense playing a character
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role Trudeau is or has done, which is that the Canadians are the nice Americans. American, I mean,
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broadly in the North American sense, you know, and, you know, it was common for a while among American
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backpackers during the Iraq war when Americans were getting accosted all across Europe. Americans would
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sew a Canadian flag on their backpack so people would leave them alone because Canada does have that
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interpretation of being nicer than Americans. But I think that era of alternative identity or kind of using
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us as a foil for Canadian identity, I think I think that has to end and it absolutely can without without too
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much cost from Canada. You know, I watched as the entire world watched the riveting interaction between
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Vladimir Zelensky and Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance. And at first I just saw the short clips
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where after, you know, omitting the first half hour of their friendly interaction, I started watching
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really when Zelensky challenged J.D. Vance, what do you mean by diplomacy? How do you accept Putin? He broke
00:18:56.700
the like when Zelensky started talking back and sort of cross-examining J.D. Vance and and talking over
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Trump. And I thought, oh, talking over Donald Trump is not something that I don't think he's ever
00:19:09.180
abided in his life. And but if you if you look at the longer exchange, it felt like Zelensky
00:19:15.300
wanted his cake and eat it and wanted to eat it too. And by that, I mean, he wanted to be able to spar
00:19:24.780
with Trump, disagree with Trump, maybe even embarrass Trump. Under his breath, he said, bitch towards J.D.
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Vance, which is sort of a shocking lack of self-control. You can do that, but not if you're
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taking hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons and funding and U.S. intelligence. Like you just
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have to pick a lane. And when he went to Europe the next day and they said all the nice things to him,
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but none of them had the boots on the ground, none of them had the army, none of the weapons. And I
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think Zelensky in his own way was, you know, he he wanted all the good stuff of being a friend of
00:20:03.420
America. But he but in return, maybe he wasn't like you're never going to be America's equal,
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but you can be Batman to America. You can be Robin to America's Batman. That's how I put it.
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You know, you're a senior partner, a junior partner. There's no other country in the world in the West
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that's going to be equally as dominant to the to the hyperpower. But if you want all the benefits,
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like Canada gets the benefits of the free military protection. So maybe we shouldn't be so snippy
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towards Trump. Maybe we shouldn't insist on our 285 percent tariffs on U.S. dairy goods. Maybe we
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should allow American banks into our markets, which we don't really do. Maybe we should allow U.S.
00:20:44.940
cell phone companies. So they're they're actually quite minor things compared to what we get from
00:20:50.080
being America's best friend. But I think that for a generation, Joel, the entire world could sort of
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flick at the giant and just assume the giant didn't feel it or didn't notice it. And I think Trump is
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noticing and he wants people to pick a lane. You can either spar with us or be on our team. You can't
00:21:09.920
do both. The Europeans have been experts at doing both for a generation. And Canada, too. We have an
00:21:15.320
anti-Americanism in our blood. In fact, Trudeau, when he went down on, I think it was Anderson Cooper's show,
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he was asked, what's the definition of a Canadian? He said, not an American. Canadians are incredibly proud of
00:21:25.400
being Canadian. One of the ways we define ourselves most easily is, well, we're not American. As if that's a dirty
00:21:31.780
thing to be. And that's what I mean. Like, it's just it's just not it's not good enough for Canada. It's not it's not
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good for our relationship, but it's really that's that's not what it can mean to be Canadian. I'm
00:21:42.220
surprised he said that I hadn't actually seen that. Oh, he says that all the Canadians not an American
00:21:47.400
say that. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, in my own life, people ask, what's the content of being a
00:21:56.820
Jewish person? Right. And if your only response is, well, I'm Jewish because of anti-Semitism. Well,
00:22:02.660
then you're letting this other thing define you. And it's no way to go, really. I mean,
00:22:09.300
we all know identity. Yeah, there's no content to it. I mean, you've got to have some kind of
00:22:13.560
positive content to it. And I, you know, I joke about Molson's and hockey and things like that. But
00:22:18.040
Canada is a very special place. I mean, it's really a fantastic country with an incredible diversity of
00:22:26.620
geography and experiences. But look, it is a northern country. And it has this vast expanse
00:22:32.920
that is just incredible. You know, I used to look at maps of Canada, we took a road trip once when I
00:22:40.040
was a kid to Montreal, and we had a map of Canada. And I sat there in the front passenger seat next to
00:22:46.100
my dad when he was driving our old VW van from Chicago through Detroit, and then Toronto and Montreal,
00:22:51.820
and just marveling at this vast wilderness and everything in it. And, you know, Canada is an
00:22:58.480
amazing, amazing place with incredible people. I flew up to Canada back in December, I think it was
00:23:05.280
2022, with my daughter to see a cousin of mine, I actually have cousins on both sides of my family
00:23:11.360
in Toronto. And a cousin of mine was in production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.
00:23:16.580
And it was just so great to be in Canada. I mean, many things in Canada do feel comfortably close to
00:23:24.920
what we're used to in America. But the essence of being Canadian is something different. It's
00:23:32.180
something special. And I'm not Canadian. So maybe I'm not the best place to decide what that is or
00:23:37.740
ought to be. But there's something special about being Canadian, just as there's something special
00:23:42.560
about being American, but it's not the same thing. And yeah, we should an American, no one in the
00:23:48.120
United States says I'm not Canadian. Yeah, yeah, it would be. Although, you know, look, I do think
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national identity has to be more than the metric system and the addition of the letter U into certain
00:24:01.040
words. You know, there's something to it. And, you know, we have fun with it. We have fun with a
00:24:07.940
little sibling rivalry, if you will, on the continent. And the hockey games, you know, were
00:24:13.740
thrilling. I mean, you know, the Canadians deserve to win, I think, because even though they lost that
00:24:18.880
first game, I saw in the Americans' faces in that hockey game that they didn't believe they could win
00:24:23.140
it. It was weird. There was just an extra fight, I think, the second time around, which is good. You
00:24:27.220
know, I think there's a very productive relationship to be had. I do think that the Trudeau version of
00:24:33.380
Canadianism, if you want to call it that, is a kind of parody of a stereotype that Americans have
00:24:42.400
about Canadians, which is that they're just too liberal, and too alternative. And if I can be,
00:24:50.780
you know, crude, I mean, too kind of unmanly. I mean, the carefully coiffed hair and stuff,
00:24:56.720
it doesn't actually represent any real Canadians you might encounter. But there's a kind of idea that,
00:25:01.740
yeah, we're the kinder, gentler version of America. And I think, yeah, if that's how Trudeau
00:25:08.160
styles himself, I'm not surprised that that's what his answer was. But, you know, Canadians are
00:25:11.940
tough, and Canadians are cool. And, you know, some of the greatest, you know, things are done by
00:25:19.160
Canadians. I mean, whatever. I'm starting to ramble here, and you'll have to forgive me on three hours
00:25:22.900
of sleep. Oh, well, listen, I'm grateful for your time. Yeah, let me throw something at you.
00:25:26.940
It's just, it's a special, special place that has to have its own identity on its own basis. And I
00:25:34.720
think it does. And look, again, I just think that the key to unraveling this whole dispute is
00:25:42.620
actually probably pretty simple. Let me throw something at you. I don't know if I told you,
00:25:47.360
but I just published a short book called Deal of the Century, The America First Plan for Canada's
00:25:53.620
Oil Sense. Joe, let me just take a minute on that. About a dozen years ago, I wrote a left-wing book
00:25:58.000
called Ethical Oil, The Case for Canada's Oil Sense. And I took all the arguments from the left,
00:26:04.160
who said they cared about the environment, peace, economic justice for workers, civil rights. And I
00:26:12.180
said, okay, if you really believe those things, let's compare Canadian oil with oil from everywhere
00:26:17.160
else in the world. And I put it to you, the Canadian oil is the fair trade coffee of the world's oil
00:26:22.100
industry. It was using left-wing values to make the case that don't buy from Saudi Arabia or OPEC or
00:26:27.300
Russia, buy from Alberta. Now, I think it's time to make the America First case for Canadian oil. And I
00:26:35.800
wrote the book trying to think, well, how does Donald Trump think? He thinks, take world assets away
00:26:41.860
from China. He talks about big real estate deals in Greenland or Panama or even Gaza. And he wants
00:26:50.780
things in return for economic access to the states. So I thought, well, there's 170 billion barrels of
00:26:58.300
oil in Canada's oil sands. That's enough to make all of America's, fill all of America's important
00:27:07.240
needs to get rid of all the Saudi and other OPEC countries. Canada can fulfill it for 50 years,
00:27:13.540
a 50-year deal, $13 trillion worth at today's prices. And I thought, sign a deal for all the
00:27:22.100
oil. It's better than annexing Canada because you get the good stuff, the oil, without the hassle,
00:27:28.900
you know, a French quarter that wants to be bilingual, the electoral college that's going to
00:27:35.220
I don't think, I mean, look, sorry to interrupt you. I don't even think you need to make, I mean,
00:27:39.200
look, it's a wonderful case to make. I just don't think you even need to make that. I think there
00:27:44.060
are certain symbolic issues that Trudeau took a stand on that did sour the relationship between
00:27:50.220
the two governments. I remember just off the top of my head when he was asked, for example,
00:27:56.800
would he honor an international criminal court warrant against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of
00:28:01.340
Israel? And he said he would. I mean, that's just insane. It's insane. And the United States is not
00:28:06.540
party to the international criminal court for that reason. Because before they started going
00:28:11.420
after the Israelis, they were coming after us. The first people to be targeted in this way by the
00:28:16.040
ICC were U.S. military personnel who had served in Afghanistan. And the ICC started investigating
00:28:23.200
American soldiers. And that's when, under the first Trump administration, they slapped sanctions
00:28:28.080
on the ICC and barred them from entering the United States and refused to issue them visas.
00:28:32.100
And that was the reason Trump opposed the ICC. Now, we weren't party to the ICC anyway. It had
00:28:38.660
no jurisdiction over Americans. But when they decided that jurisdiction didn't matter and the
00:28:43.120
fact that we didn't sign a treaty didn't matter and they could investigate us anyway as a matter of
00:28:47.280
customary international law, that's when Trump said, OK, enough is enough. We're going to protect
00:28:51.500
our military. Trudeau then gives legitimacy to that court by saying, oh, yeah, we'll honor these
00:28:56.160
arrest warrants because, you know, we're we're signatories to the Rome statute and we have to do
00:28:59.920
that. I mean, that's so absurd. It's against American interests directly and it's against Israel,
00:29:06.680
obviously. But it also just suggests a Canada that has been overrun not by liberalism, which,
00:29:12.260
you know, we kind of laugh at a little bit and enjoy, but it's overrun by radicalism. And that's
00:29:18.920
something I think that really put Americans off. So there are a few things like that. I think that
00:29:24.020
that Trudeau did and, you know, mocking Trump with Boris Johnson and so forth. And, you know,
00:29:32.600
in the last few days, you know, thundering about how he's going to defend Ukraine when when, you
00:29:38.200
know, Canada has 63 fighter aircraft and they're going to send something like 16 or 17 to Ukraine.
00:29:42.620
I mean, it's like, you know, a massive proportion of Canada's air force. I mean, you know, it's just
00:29:48.040
it's absurd. They're 40 year old jets, I should tell you. Joel, I don't even know if we have that
00:29:52.700
many that fly. They're CF-18s from the 70s and 80s. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
00:29:59.120
I don't know if you know this. Canada did not participate in the last European
00:30:02.040
NATO exercises, the largest NATO exercises in years. Canada was not there because we could not
00:30:07.820
interoperate. We didn't have the machinery or the men. Canada wasn't there. Right. So Trudeau
00:30:14.300
postures as this great friend of Ukraine. Right. But he can't actually back it up. So I think that kind
00:30:19.500
of thing irritates Americans. It irritates it because then it feels like you're doing that
00:30:23.620
based on our defense and our economy. And, you know, you're you're you're dissenting from our
00:30:30.040
way of doing things, which is you're right, of course, but you're doing it while also benefiting
00:30:35.260
from American protection and largesia. I'm not trying to come across the wrong way. I'm just telling
00:30:40.120
you how some Americans see Trudeau's antics. So I think Trump isn't just waiting for Trudeau to leave
00:30:46.340
office. I think he's ushering him out the door. And I think Trump very much wants to be seen as
00:30:50.500
the person who got rid of Trudeau. And then after that, I think you'll see things open up a little
00:30:55.820
bit more. But Trump again, Trump looks for these symbolic victories that he can really
00:31:00.800
hang on a flagpole or something. I mean, he, you know, so I think Canada can give him some of those
00:31:09.000
at a very low cost, very low cost to Canada or to Canadian sovereignty and independence. I mean,
00:31:14.640
I think I was put off a little bit by I think the premier of Ontario was at Ford, who was on our
00:31:22.640
television. I mean, I thought he made a very good case against the tariffs and how much they could
00:31:27.500
hurt industries on both sides. But then he started threatening American electrical consumers. I mean,
00:31:32.300
I didn't think that was appropriate. And he should have said something about fentanyl. And Peter Navarro,
00:31:38.060
the Trump trade advisor who was on right after him said, well, I didn't hear anything about fentanyl.
00:31:41.640
Would it really have killed Ford to say something about drugs? I mean, it's, it's again, it's so
00:31:47.100
easy. And you just have to snap yourself out of the Trudeau mentality. And, you know, just you can
00:31:53.040
be tough. And I know politicians want to look tough. And I understand that. But also offer a compromise
00:31:59.040
to Trump, something he can hold up and wave and tell the American people, you see, I got this because
00:32:03.160
I made this tariff threat. And then everybody goes home happy. And, you know, you don't have to agree
00:32:07.640
with Trump. But there it is. Yeah, I think Doug Ford, he's trying to out bully Trump. I don't
00:32:14.840
think that's going to work. I see the premier of New Brunswick, a province of less than a million
00:32:19.640
souls, which supplies a lot of fuel and fuel oil to New England. The largest refinery in Canada is in
00:32:27.260
New Brunswick. And it serves New England. She's talking about cutting New England off from home
00:32:32.200
heating oil. Yeah, you know, I was going to say this earlier, all of that would have been more
00:32:35.640
effective if it were done in October or November. But we're coming out of winter right now. So
00:32:39.480
nobody cares. You know, you're going to threaten the electricity and threaten the oil. I mean,
00:32:43.100
it just looks stupid. I mean, you know, so I understand it, right? I understand. And Canadian,
00:32:50.340
I've also, you know, heard Canadians feel hurt and upset. Why is he taking on oxygen?
00:32:57.860
Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm not discounting that. I'm saying that's real. So I get that. I get that.
00:33:02.840
But again, there's something else happening there as well, which is Trump is really confronting
00:33:10.380
countries like South Africa, which is in a strategically important location and is siding
00:33:14.880
with China and Russia and Iran. And the South Africans are saying, wow, he's going after Canada.
00:33:21.580
I mean, if Trump's going after America's best friend, he's really going to come after us.
00:33:26.680
So it's also partly about projecting a threat to countries that aren't so friendly with us.
00:33:30.680
I think that's a lot of it. Pour encourager les autres, as they'd say in French. And I think
00:33:36.660
that's what it is. And I think, and for all the fake friends in Europe and NATO, I tell you,
00:33:43.360
Joel, I just can't get enough of these tiny little countries in Europe, like the prime minister of
00:33:48.100
Luxembourg, who says, we stand, we stand with Ukraine. I looked it up. They have 939 soldiers in
00:33:55.000
the whole, it's a city. It's not a country, but he's the prime minister or Kaya Kalas, the new
00:34:00.160
foreign minister for Europe. She's from Estonia, population 1.3 million. And I got nothing against
00:34:05.580
Estonia. I'm not being mean. I'm just saying they're, they're cosplaying. They're, they're
00:34:13.520
Yeah. Well, and, but that's the thing is, is none of them is the, the, at the end of the day,
00:34:21.360
it's America. And, and I think Canada, in some ways, Trump is right. We have, and I don't think
00:34:28.720
we, we hid it. We had free healthcare for a generation because America paid for our national
00:34:34.720
defense. And, and I think that's true. And I, I think that Trump is saying, I mean, look at his
00:34:42.820
offer to Canadians, come on over, join us as the 51st state. We'll give you American dollars and
00:34:47.760
we'll give you a good military protection. And by the way, that's not a bad offer. Now it, it
00:34:51.880
doesn't deal with the emotional and loyal pride and patriotism that a lot of people have. I, the
00:34:59.060
analogy I use is like going up to a married person and saying, would you like to marry me? I know
00:35:04.400
you're not divorced right now. A lot of people would feel deeply offended by that, but someone who
00:35:09.320
is contemplating a divorce anyways might say, okay. And I, if you want to stop Trump from doing
00:35:14.720
that, you'll say, all you have to do is say, we agree to be the 51st state on condition that you
00:35:19.960
accept the metric system. That'll end the conversation. Well, I mean, there's a lot of
00:35:24.060
little quirks like that. Like I, like I mentioned French and English bilingualism. Well, how do you
00:35:28.780
think? That actually is not, that could be popular. I mean, you've got New England, a lot of people
00:35:33.340
speak French. New Orleans, down, down there, Louisiana, a little bit. We're, we're, we're in
00:35:39.760
some ways, you know, Trump declared English our official language, you know, and it was about time,
00:35:43.700
but we are practically speaking often a bilingual country, you know, here in Los Angeles, you hear
00:35:48.120
Spanish all the time, you know, in my area. Now, now where I'm living, you know, we hear Farsi and
00:35:53.200
Hebrew and, you know, everything. Listen, I don't want to take up too much of your time, but what I'm
00:35:57.760
leaving with is that you think a lot of this last minute banter by Trump is just basically kicking
00:36:04.300
Trudeau as he exits the door. Because first of all, why not? Second of all, Trudeau, it's ridiculous
00:36:11.660
that he's even negotiating or anything. And he, by the way, he's not just hiding, like he dissolved
00:36:16.560
parliament because they were going to vote him out. So he, he suspended parliament. Like he, he really
00:36:21.580
is being cowardly. He's wringing out these last few hours. I, maybe you're right. I think
00:36:27.740
Trump, and maybe the new leader of the liberal party who will immediately become prime minister,
00:36:32.000
which is bizarre because he's not a member of the parliament. He's just a guy on the street. Well,
00:36:37.140
Brooke, uh, Brookfield Asset Management, who's going to become our new prime minister without
00:36:40.820
even a seat in parliament. He's just gone from a regular guy, regular guy who lives in three
00:36:47.460
different countries, three different passports on the board of directors of the World Economic Forum.
00:36:51.020
He's going to be selected as our prime minister. Let me throw one more tidbit to you, Joel.
00:36:55.900
Well, in the liberal leadership race that selects Mark Carney, foreign nationals are allowed to vote
00:37:03.980
in it. And kids as young as 14 are as allowed to vote in it. So you will have foreign children
00:37:10.140
choosing Trump's new counterpart in Canada. So I don't think the craziness is over just yet.
00:37:17.160
Look, I think that, um, it's one of the most important partnerships in the world and it's
00:37:27.140
going to stay that way, but Canada, I think needs to become a little more like America in some
00:37:33.900
practical ways without losing its Canadian identity. I think that's what Trump is trying to say. So yes,
00:37:39.040
fentanyl, but also become a little more open to free enterprise and a little bit more open to a tough
00:37:45.800
stand against China, which hasn't always been the case. I mean, I know my impression is it's become
00:37:50.360
tougher since the arrests and, you know, the whole fiasco, but I think that Trump wants a unified front
00:37:56.620
against China. So when the Canadians say, why isn't he starting by picking out in China? I think it's because
00:38:00.360
he doesn't want Canada doing an end around and, uh, you know, uh, um, kind of developing ties with China
00:38:07.880
while America is stuck in a confrontation. So look, I think he wants North America to work in concert and this is
00:38:13.900
part of his way of doing it. I think it's also good. He's doing this at the start of his presidency.
00:38:17.780
You know, he's, he's getting all the unpleasant stuff out of the way early and leaving himself
00:38:22.620
so many ways of doing good things further down the road. He's done some good and fun and happy
00:38:27.960
things also, but you know, the tariffs in the beginning, the big mass firings of federal workers
00:38:33.200
in the beginning, the confrontations with China and with lately Ukraine because of Zelensky's behavior
00:38:43.220
out of the way in the beginning. I think this is setting him up to have a more successful presidency
00:38:47.860
and that'll benefit Canada as well as the United States. Well, I like your view and I would even call
00:38:53.440
it optimistic. And I think that's because we Canadians are obsessed with ourselves, whereas the United
00:38:59.140
States has a few other files on the go. I mean, I don't know if you know this, Joel, but all 13
00:39:03.940
Canadian premiers, it would be like all 50 U.S. governors went to the White House. Now they didn't
00:39:10.180
have a meeting with Trump, just all 13 went there and mid-level staffers met them. That was the day
00:39:16.420
the King of Jordan was there. I think the day before the Prime Minister, the President of India was
00:39:20.680
there, Prime Minister of India. Ukraine was, so it's a bit of chutzpah for 13, you know, it would be like
00:39:27.700
the smallest 13 governors demanding an audience. Trump was busy. Trudeau couldn't be bothered to
00:39:33.480
attend. But my point in telling you that is Trump had bigger fish to fry. It wasn't an insult that
00:39:40.100
he didn't meet with the Canadian premiers. He was trying to- Well, there's another thing going on
00:39:43.900
there. There's another thing going on there as well, which is that, look, Trump has already assigned an
00:39:49.620
ambassador to Canada. So Canada is actually high on the priority list. It's not that you're not.
00:39:53.740
The issue there is also that Democrats have put a hold on State Department confirmations. And so
00:40:01.400
in some ways, if you want to meet with senior diplomats, you're stuck with the President and
00:40:06.980
the Secretary of State, who might, as you point out, be otherwise engaged with heads of state and
00:40:10.440
things like that. And there just isn't the same infrastructure in place yet because Democrats are
00:40:16.260
using a parliamentary maneuver to withhold their approval of nominees to basically get back at Trump for
00:40:23.040
cutting USAID. And it's all politics. But that might have also been the problem. Look, though,
00:40:29.440
yes, the governors met with senior or the premiers met with more junior staff at the White House. But
00:40:35.680
Stephen Miller, who I think they met with, he may be the deputy chief of staff, but he's an extremely
00:40:44.900
I think he's the most powerful guy in that White House other than Trump himself and maybe Letnick.
00:40:52.960
You know, it's funny. In Israel, the most recent, he just left, but the most recent chief of staff of
00:41:00.080
the IDF was at the rank of lieutenant general, you know, as if he were sort of, you know, not quite
00:41:06.220
general enough. You know, I mean, sometimes the deputy is more powerful than the rank.
00:41:12.960
He's the keeper of the flame on everything from immigration to handling the media. When Stephen
00:41:17.320
Miller is deployed, I stop everything and listen. And he was, frankly, my favorite appointment in
00:41:23.440
the whole administration. I know you got to go. Thanks for being generous with your time.
00:41:26.720
We've been talking with Joel Pollack, senior editor at large at Breitbart.com. Take care,
00:41:31.860
Well, that's our show for today. Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World
00:41:37.400
Headquarters, to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.