00:11:56.900There's going to be lots of questions, mainly for the U.S. side, because as you heard in the audio, it sounds certainly like an air traffic control error.
00:12:05.140There may have been other errors as well.
00:12:07.020I heard that there may have been some transponder issue, as in some identifier where the truck was.
00:20:03.860namely some parts of Montreal, the Montreal elite,
00:20:06.940no one else in this country has the ability to learn French naturally.
00:20:11.520I mean, listen, this CEO tried 600 hours and he just couldn't get it.
00:20:16.240It's only if you grow up at a truly bilingual place and there's only a very few places like that.
00:20:21.520It is a form of DEI protection just for one particular group.
00:20:28.060No one else has a chance to be bilingual, including, by the way, foreign immigrants to Canada.
00:20:34.280If you come to Canada from China or India or anywhere else, learning your first language, whether it's French or English, is tough enough to learn your second extra language.
00:20:46.120So now three languages at a level enough to be considered bilingual.
00:20:57.280and i think it's just so gross all these people standing on dead bodies mugging for the cameras
00:21:05.580the only thing grosser is the media that loves it stay with us more ahead including uh for my
00:21:14.100discussion with two leading alberta independence activists two lawyers at that that's next
00:21:27.280Right. When we have two of the most prominent faces of the independence movement sitting with us for at least the next, let's just say, 20 minutes or so, we should pick their brains.
00:21:36.840So before we came on air, Jeffrey was hinting to us that he was going through some 400-ish pages of documents that are being leveled at the independence movement from the indigenous bands.
00:21:52.580Yeah, and it's pretty remarkable when you read what their lawyers are doing.
00:21:56.140They're effectively applying for an injunction or a stay by way of judicial review of the decision of the chief electoral officer to certify Mitch Sylvester's petition to go forward.
00:22:09.960So, in effect, they're trying to undo, you know, months and months of very hard work by hundreds of thousands of Albertans who are interested in independence.
00:22:19.060And these briefs, like hundreds of pages of briefs, and it's based on a complete misconception of the law.
00:22:25.840I think, as most people know, like Keith knows, I've spent 34 years of my life pioneering the law in and around Indigenous consultation in Canada.
00:22:35.300And these lawyers seem to think that you can just wave the word treaty rights and wave the word consultation in the air.
00:22:41.320like some sort of magical invocation or magical wand and somehow or other it'll force citizens
00:22:48.560or stop citizens from being able to communicate with their elected representatives in a manner
00:22:54.880prescribed by the legislature i mean these briefs are some of the most ludicrous things that i've
00:23:00.000ever read and they ignore i mean the early consultation cases dealt with actual infringements
00:23:06.100of actual rights like somebody tying a surveying ribbon on somebody's corral rail marked center
00:23:13.120of road and they're going to come in with bulldozers and bulldoze you know a road through
00:23:17.820the middle of a hundred year old indigenous hunting camp that you know that has been there
00:23:22.560basically since time immemorial you know that's a clear infringement of an existing right that
00:23:28.620could easily be addressed by moving the road a kilometer or two down the road or you know down
00:23:32.920you know you know east or west or whatever it is i mean there's solutions to these these problems
00:23:37.560that can be addressed through consultation but these lawyers and these chiefs i think have been
00:23:42.640misadvised by these lawyers to think that all they have to do is the government has an obligation to
00:23:47.100consult with us and therefore the government wanting to consult with its own citizens by way
00:23:52.880of a legislatively mandated process should stop because we have a veto and we say so i mean it's
00:23:59.600like, none of these people went to law school. I'm just baffled when I read these briefs to try
00:24:03.600to figure out where the hell they're coming from. Keith, I want to ask, sorry, Ezra, you go ahead.
00:24:09.300No, you're going to go ahead. I was going to, I know that Keith has spent a lot of time addressing
00:24:14.100Indigenous concerns and I'd love to hear his reaction. I'm not sure what written documents
00:24:20.880you're referring to, Jeff, if these are a legal factum or affidavits, but I don't know, Keith,
00:24:26.860These are legal briefs that have been filed in these judicial review applications, and then a very misconceived injunction application being brought by a lawyer by the name of Orla O'Kelly in Edmonton.
00:24:40.800Everybody should remember that Orla O'Kelly was the same lawyer along with another lawyer by the name of Sharon Robert, who thought it was a good idea to run into court to get a court order re-masking children in Alberta after the pandemic emergency had been declared to an end.
00:24:56.440And, you know, the Alberta Teachers Association and lawyers thought it was a good idea to try to have every child in the province ordered by a judge against their parents' will to be re-masked in the schools.
00:25:08.100And, of course, that injunction was round for rejected by the court.
00:25:11.380And, you know, we're hoping, you know, this is headed in the same direction.
00:25:14.860well what i would say ezra is that um jeff and i have a great deal of respect for one another and
00:25:23.000uh we decided that only one of us was going to have to suffer through reading these things
00:25:27.980there was no point in uh but what i can say with confidence is that every level this application
00:25:38.840by a few of the chiefs is frivolous and vexatious and politically motivated there is no fact pattern
00:25:44.600under which that's before the court or that's contemplated where either treaty rights or
00:25:50.420traditional first nation aboriginal rights would be in any way abrogated in any way breached in
00:25:56.500any way compromised um the the idea of citizens engaging in the process of petition is the oldest
00:26:04.700form of democracy it is it is it's an essential element of democracy that citizens are able to
00:26:12.920petition their government and as jeff's pointed out if the court gets an injunction it would be
00:26:20.400equivalent to getting an issues an injunction it would be equivalent of issuing injunction to
00:26:24.960citizens saying you can't write to your mla it's a perfect analogy this is absolutely outrageous
00:26:31.280if we vote you know the each first nation citizen gets the right to sign the petition just like
00:26:37.860anyone else they have nothing special there each first nation uh after the vote for independence
00:26:43.400on october 19th if we're successful each first nation will have a decision to make do they want
00:26:48.380the status quo where their treaty is respected and their treaty lands uh are continue to be
00:26:53.580administered just like they are today there's no requirement there's no necessity for change if
00:26:57.440they want the status quo if that's what they decide they can have it if they want alberta
00:27:01.280to step into the shoes of the federal government and administer the treaties they can ask for that
00:27:06.400And the parties can agree only if the First Nations agree and ask or some of the First Nations, I suspect, are going to say these are really old documents.
00:27:14.000We want a more modern relationship. So there's nothing threatening here.
00:27:17.760This is pure politics. And I certainly hope the court realizes how improper it would be for a court to interfere in the democratic process of petition.
00:27:31.080I got one more question. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
00:27:33.820No, I just wanted to add to that. You know, one of the things I'd like all of the chiefs to internalize is why do they think that they're going to be so much worse off when Alberta is no longer sending $15 billion a year to Quebec and that that money could be staying in Alberta, you know, to assist in coming to a renewed relationship with the Indigenous communities of Alberta to help lift them out of the poverty that, you know, that Ottawa has left them in.
00:28:01.040You know, and then the other thing is, too, getting back to these court applications and following up on a piece point.
00:28:05.960That's what's been bothering me about this whole application.
00:28:08.860It's this idea that somehow, and again, it's just bad lawyering as far as I'm concerned, that lawyers would suggest to a client that, you know, that they could succeed in getting an injunction to prevent a citizen from communicating with their elected representative.
00:28:23.880And again, the judge actually said in a case management meeting, she said, look, the odds of me stopping the gathering of petition signatures is slim to none.
00:28:33.620So, you know, we should be focusing on what happens after, you know, the chief electoral officer, you know, receives the petition and the petition signature.
00:28:43.720But now at this point, it's almost the equivalence of saying, oh, yeah, we're not going to stop citizens from mailing a letter to their MLA or to the premier.
00:28:51.700But we want a mandatory injunction to place censors in all of the MLA's office and the premier's office to open all of the mail.
00:29:00.480And if there's any communication coming in in the mail that's offensive to the chiefs, it should not be forwarded on to the MLA or the premier.
00:29:08.580It's an absolute abrogation of the democratic process.
00:29:12.340And quite frankly, one of the most nonsensical court applications that I've ever witnessed is a lawyer going on 35 years of practice.
00:29:30.420Do we know which judge is going to hear this?
00:29:32.780Is there room for interveners to come in?
00:29:35.920because I would be curious if other people would want to give a representation as a friend of the
00:29:41.580court to the judge. It's a, it's an ordinary course, judicial review, um, with the, it's a
00:29:49.580special chambers application. Um, you know, this is, it's the normal process you follow when you're
00:29:55.640challenging a governmental decision. Uh, the parties are pretty much established, uh, um,
00:30:01.820and it's subject to case management. So it's a going to hearing, uh, I believe, um, I think
00:30:08.500there's a, a first hearing on the 7th of April and then there's the main, uh, two day hearing.
00:30:13.460No, it's a four day, it's a four day hearing, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th in Edmonton. And, uh, uh,
00:30:19.780so there's no, no interveners. I mean, that you have, uh, two separate judicial review applications,
00:30:25.100one by the chiefs of the Blackfoot Confederacy, one by the Athabasca Chippewa and First Nation.
00:30:30.560And then we have this bizarre lawsuit filed by Orla O'Kelly seeking the injunction, which has been filed on behalf of Sturgeon Lake, Cree Nation, where in effect, you know, they're seeking declarations and seeking court orders to say that the legislature of Alberta, by mandating a process by which citizens can communicate their wishes to the government by petition,
00:30:56.920has somehow infringed or abrogated treaty and aboriginal rights and you know and i have to say
00:31:03.880is you know a lawyer who's you know the only lawyer in that courtroom and quite frankly a
00:31:08.040lawyer in canada who's won more treaty and aboriginal rights cases than any other lawyer
00:31:12.100in the country um that you know this whole notion that they're pursuing makes absolutely no sense i
00:31:18.660know the alberta treaties backwards and forwards the micasoo case i won at the supreme court of
00:31:23.860canada i want the point that even the oral promises actually form part of the treaty not
00:31:29.900an interpretive aid of the treaties i know the oral promises of all of these treaties backwards
00:31:34.580and forwards i've won consultation cases under every treaty in alberta and you know there's
00:31:40.840nothing in any of those treaties or oral promises that says i you know the first nations will have
00:31:45.640a treaty right to prevent citizens of alberta from communicating with their government you know
00:31:51.920it's ridiculous keith let me go to you about the politics because it sounds like this case
00:31:58.280um well i i tell you one thing if these injunctions are granted and albertans are told they can't have
00:32:05.580a referendum quebec had two referendums but if alberta is not allowed to have its referendum
00:32:11.380because of a judge i think that will actually make independence ferocious especially if the
00:32:17.600judge is a federal appointee. But can I ask about my old friend, Jason Kenney, who I think has
00:32:25.420fallen into being the advocate for the remain side of this referendum. I'd like your thoughts
00:32:35.360on him, Keith. First of all, I understand that you may have been invited to debate him. Has that
00:32:40.500invitation happened as a think tank or something asked you to go head to head with him? What do
00:32:45.660you make of his energetic activism for the remain side well i'm glad there's someone trying to make
00:32:53.000the case for staying in canada because it's one of the things jeff and i have struggles with is
00:32:58.480finding someone who can at least make a cogent argument as to why there's even one reason
00:33:03.180that it would be in my kids and grandkids best interest to do that uh yes i did receive two
00:33:09.420invitations uh been negotiating the details over the last month um so i have agreed to two public
00:33:16.200debates uh with mr kenny the former premier one will be at the civitas conference in early may
00:33:22.900in edmonton and the second one will be a wide open public event put on by the aristotle society
00:33:30.140mark milkey's group in calgary i think around the 21st of may i think there'll be some public
00:33:36.300announcements coming out um you know and the the what i keep coming back to is each time i ask
00:33:44.800myself you know why am i doing this uh why am i so supportive of independence it's because by
00:33:52.360every single measure that i can think of every practical aspect every economic viewpoint social
00:34:00.980political it just makes sense there's no good reason for alberta to stay in canada
00:34:08.680um you know right now we have this mou controversy the mou you know i try to think of an analogy
00:34:17.720imagine you and i are trying to get out of a room and there's and there's a person holding there's
00:34:25.400there's two people in a room and one person's holding the door closed from the inside and
00:34:31.280you're both standing there and we're and and then they look at you go we need to do an mou so we can
00:34:37.040get out of this room and i'm like well why don't you just move away from the door what am i getting
00:34:42.340at the the mou is to get around the tanker ban that the same people impose the mou is to get
00:34:51.300around Bill C-69 approved no project law that they imposed. The MOU is to see whether or not
00:35:01.560the oil industry can afford to spend 10 or 15 or more dollars a barrel on green fairy dust.
00:35:09.720And so the people who are responsible for creating these barriers to our growth and
00:35:18.760our prosperity and releasing to the world that which we're now seeing because the straight-of-home
00:35:23.800use they desperately need are the same people we're negotiating the mou with it's just baffling
00:35:30.080to me it makes no sense by every measure uh albertans will be better off um to to to move
00:35:38.440forward through independence and and more and more albertans are waking up to that reality
00:35:41.980uh gentlemen i know that we probably only have you for a few more minutes i think that was the
00:35:48.000deal that we made with you. But before we let you go, I need an update. Either one of you can jump
00:35:54.300in on the status of great separatist leader Thomas Lukaszek's Forever Canada efforts to get his
00:36:01.820question approved onto the potential referendum ballot. Well, I guess it's a done deal in October.
00:36:11.000I know that he was crying and moaning about, you know, a panel not being convened quickly enough to address his question.
00:36:20.740What do we know about where they're at?
00:36:24.900My understanding is it's still stuck in committee and, you know, and Mr. Nenshi is beating his breast and, you know, is most upset that the UCP aren't moving, you know, Mr. Lukasik's question, you know, forward quickly enough.
00:36:39.200But, I mean, there's still a huge amount of confusion arising because the question went to the legislature and Mr. Lukasik said that he didn't want a referendum and he just wanted the question dealt with by the legislature.
00:36:51.660So, you know, and then we have the other issue, too, that Mr. Lukasik's question is merely a policy question that wouldn't actually pass the smell test with the Clarity Act.
00:37:02.920So I don't know why the government of Alberta would be spending a bunch of money to put Mr. LeCassek's question on the ballot when his question, as Justice Feesby explained in court, was a pure nothing burger.
00:37:15.400And those were, you know, nothing burger, to remind everybody, those were the judge's words for that, you know, for that question, not mine.
00:37:25.020Well, it's either that or it means something.
00:37:28.180And what the actual wording of the actual form that I've reposted many times, including I think yesterday, that Lukasik signed and filled out himself, was calling on the Alberta government to hold a referendum.
00:37:44.400not it doesn't say i want the alberta government the legislature to decide anything it says it
00:37:51.560he wants a province-wide referendum it says by signing this petition his petition you are calling
00:37:58.260on the alberta government to hold a province-wide referendum on whether or not alberta should stay
00:38:03.820or leave canada so yeah there's a procedural defect there but that's a pretty strong signal
00:38:09.740to the premier and to her government that Albertans want to vote on this. I expect what's
00:38:15.780going to happen. She's been pretty clear that there will be an independence question on the ballot
00:38:22.060on October 19th. It'll be a separate ballot. It will be the first in the stack and it'll have a
00:38:28.860standalone independence question on it. I think clearly Stay Free Alberta and Mitch Sylvester's
00:38:35.220petition is going to be successful. It's going to hit the target and exceed it. And then that
00:38:41.120will give the mandate to Premier Smith in her cabinet to formulate which precise wording they're
00:38:47.960going to use. And hopefully they'll use ours because Jeff and I were very careful to mimic
00:38:52.320the actual legal test from the Clarity Act right into the question. So we're going to be voting
00:38:59.840on independence in october and it's an exciting time because i think we can actually achieve this
00:39:05.480and i don't see the negotiations that would follow as being drawn out my expectation is that we could
00:39:13.080complete the negotiation process and know where the party stand within 90 days the limited functions
00:39:19.740that alberta needs to take over from the federal government are all known there's no mystery here
00:39:24.260it's like a passport office yeah we think we can do better oh we'll need border guards at the
00:39:28.520airports and the borders okay yeah we'll just hire those guys like it's really actually when
00:39:32.980compared to some of the other complex agreements i've been involved in and mergers and acquisitions
00:39:37.700this one's actually pretty straightforward i think we can lay out a term sheet and get the
00:39:41.940deal done and have alberta a free independent country in january and more more important more
00:39:47.060importantly too in accordance with the secession reference the federal government and the other
00:39:51.220provinces have an obligation to negotiate in good faith and as keith as keith says we'll have a term
00:39:56.620sheet form we'll put it on the table here's you know here are our proposed terms if they don't
00:40:00.880want to negotiate in good faith that then takes alberta directly into paragraph 155 of the
00:40:07.120secession reference which would allow alberta in good conscience with good reason to unilaterally
00:40:13.040declare independence from canada and seek international recognition which i am very
00:40:17.840confident would be forthcoming very quickly from the united states and a number of other u.s western
00:40:23.260allies that want to see alberta freed from the clutches of communist chinese ottawa okay gentlemen
00:40:29.800i know we agreed to keep you for just half an hour and we're over that but i have one more
00:40:33.720question for you that came up repeatedly on our independence tour and that is okay so let's say
00:40:41.440that the referendum passes albertans vote to leave the negotiations start guys who does those
00:40:49.100negotiations? Well, what I would expect would happen is this, and I've talked about this publicly,
00:40:55.520is, you know, there is work going on behind the scenes and no announcements have been made,
00:41:00.400but they'll be coming soon by a group to detail the transition plan and the term sheets for both
00:41:08.900Ottawa and Washington, um, and to have all that ready to go and briefed on and presented to the
00:41:19.240premier and her group and her team in advance of the vote so that it's go time. Once the votes are
00:41:26.540counted, you know, which would probably come out on the 20th or the 21st of October, uh, because
00:41:31.780it will take a day or two because we do manual counts here in Alberta. We don't trust machines
00:41:35.660anymore. And I support that. And so the Premier is going to have two choices. She's going to either
00:41:45.460have to agree to lead the province into independence and lead those negotiations, or she's going to
00:41:52.400have to resign and say she just can't do it and have someone take over who can. And the reason I
00:41:59.500say that is the supreme court of canada was clear uh in the 1998 reference case that if a clear
00:42:06.620majority of albertans vote on a clear question the party shall enter into good faith negotiations as
00:42:12.580the terms of of independence it the supreme court of canada didn't say unless the sitting premier
00:42:19.000doesn't want to do it okay so uh the premier's hands will be tied by law that if she continues
00:42:28.420to be premier she will lead those negotiations with ottawa towards alberta becoming independent
00:42:35.660you know and let's let's be clear too i mean danielle's in a very hard spot right now
00:42:41.040because a super majority of the ucp membership support independence and you know so you know
00:42:47.120she's a leader of a party continuing to you know put forward federalist noises you know and trying
00:42:52.720to pretend to continue to be a federalist when her entire party is heading in a separate direction
00:42:58.200So, you know, she's either going to have to get to the head of this parade and internalize the fact that she's going to have to lead Alberta independence or, as Keith says, she's going to have to go the route of David Cameron and resign.
00:43:10.300I got one more question for you guys. And if you've got to run, don't be shy.
00:43:14.700I mean, studying the rules of these campaigns and there's the first period, which expires on May 2nd, that's sort of the petition gathering phase.
00:43:25.160And then I guess on May 3rd, if it's successful, then it's the campaign that goes until October 19th.
00:43:32.960And I mean, Rebel News is very interested in this.
00:43:36.800And I think we might actually register as a third party because we want to be our typical rambunctious selves.
00:43:42.720And we don't want to have to worry that Elections Alberta will say we're being too political.
00:43:47.900But in my research, I've spent some time on the Elections Alberta website.
00:43:52.280and i'm surprised at how few groups there are putting their oar in the water on what i think
00:43:59.120is going to be the most important issue of 2026 just like the trucker convoy was by far
00:44:04.160the biggest political and news story of 2022 alberta independence how could that not be the
00:44:11.200biggest story of not just of the year but if i mean imagine if it were to succeed biggest story
00:44:16.940of the century and yet i see very few groups that are weighing in yet is that just people waiting
00:44:23.620till may 3rd before they pop up and and declare themselves and show their colors because i don't
00:44:29.620see the pro and the con engaging in debate yet it seems pretty calm before the storm any thoughts
00:44:35.700am i maybe i'm getting this wrong i think i'll go first jeff i think they're going to show up