Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Did Israel broker a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia — and did Joe Biden nix it？

00:00:00.000 Hello, my Rebels. Today, a shocking video by the former prime minister of Israel who said

00:00:05.860 he had nearly brokered a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine before Joe Biden told him

00:00:12.020 to stop. I'll play the video for you. We'll talk a bit about him. But first, let me invite you to

00:00:16.640 become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of this podcast. You really

00:00:21.100 need it for this one because I'm going to show this video. The spoken language is in Hebrew,

00:00:26.740 and there's subtitles on the screen in Russian and English. Now, don't worry. I'll read those

00:00:33.960 subtitles out for you in the main. But this is one of those videos where you want to see the video,

00:00:39.060 not just hear the audio. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com. Click subscribe. Eight bucks a month.

00:00:44.500 What a bargain. All right. Here's today's podcast.

00:00:56.740 Tonight, did Israel broker a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia? And did Joe Biden nix it?

00:01:08.460 It's February 7th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:11.180 You're fighting for freedom. Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:26.740 We don't talk that much about the Ukraine war on Rebel News. We're against wars. They are a failure

00:01:33.340 to resolve problems peacefully. They punish civilians, especially women and children. They

00:01:38.720 set back entire civilizations. Now, there are some things worse than war, as in there are some things

00:01:45.020 more valuable than peace. Being a prisoner could be quite peaceful. That wouldn't make it good. You

00:01:51.180 need justice along with your peace. You need freedom along with your peace. There's that protest

00:01:56.440 chant, no justice, no peace. You sometimes hear people say, well, what has war ever accomplished?

00:02:01.700 Well, I can think of a lot of things, actually. The independence of many countries, the liberation

00:02:06.500 of many countries. Even civil wars can have positive outcomes. The liberation of slaves, for example.

00:02:13.920 Many veterans hold that the wars they served in were highly moral and deeply patriotic. I think most

00:02:18.900 people agree with that most of the time, actually. But this war in Ukraine feels a little bit off.

00:02:24.100 I've never seen such unanimity in the establishment. Well, I guess since the pandemic. It's not just

00:02:31.200 unanimity that Russia ought to be expelled from Ukraine, but that war must be the means, total war, 0.95

00:02:39.400 a grinding war to wear down Russia and its military and to invoke regime change to destroy Russian

00:02:47.220 infrastructure, whether it's a bridge to Crimea or the underwater pipeline for natural gas to destroy

00:02:55.980 the capital ship Moskva. Destruction of Russia isn't just the means. It seems like the end. 0.71

00:03:02.820 The ends, that is. I also find it a little bit odd to see the Ukrainian president so idolized.

00:03:08.900 I've never seen him before. And his flaws so overlooked, his violation of civil liberties at home,

00:03:14.100 banning critical media or opposition parties, even going to war against the church in his own country.

00:03:20.320 Vladimir Putin does similar things and he's condemned for it. I think Ukraine and Russia

00:03:24.440 are actually quite similar in their violation of civil liberties. The corruption, even as a hundred

00:03:30.080 billion dollars floods into Ukraine, raises an eyebrow and calls for even harder and harsher wars.

00:03:36.860 Wars. It feels manufactured, this consent. I say again, I'm against Russia's invasion and I'm against 0.70

00:03:45.620 the war, war that Russia started. But the weird thing is the Western geopolitical military diplomatic

00:03:52.800 establishment seems to actually want the war itself as opposed to wanting the end of the war. It's almost

00:03:58.100 like they have a whole cold war of pent up frustration that they finally have a chance to fight Russia on a

00:04:05.700 battlefield in Europe. They never got that chance in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. So dammit, they'll take

00:04:11.180 that chance now. I've never seen such a thing. But something shocking was revealed the other day by a 1.00

00:04:17.620 most unusual source, Naftali Bennett, who until actually just a few weeks ago, a few months ago,

00:04:25.760 when Bibi Netanyahu was reelected, Naftali Bennett was Israel's prime minister.

00:04:30.280 So he was PM when Russia invaded Ukraine. And a week or two after the Russian invasion last year,

00:04:39.600 this Israeli PM, Naftali Bennett, secretly flew to Moscow to meet with Vladimir Putin. Now remember,

00:04:48.080 Israel is surprisingly close to Russia and Ukraine. And the reason for that is when the Berlin Wall 0.98

00:04:53.940 fell. And when Russia and Ukraine were de-Sovietized, a lot of Jews in Russia and Ukraine immigrated to

00:05:04.260 Israel. Jews had often been dissidents. They were picked on by the Soviet regime. A lot of the so-called

00:05:10.020 refusings, a lot of the democracy activists in Russia were actually Jews. And so once the Berlin Wall 0.79

00:05:17.060 came down, about a million Jews and some non-Jews came from Russia and Ukraine to Israel. In fact,

00:05:25.480 you can hear Russian spoken in the streets of Israel as much as any other language, almost as much as

00:05:31.980 English. So Israel has a connection, obviously to the West and obviously to its patron, the United

00:05:38.600 States, but it has an active real connection to Russia and Ukraine. So when the war broke out,

00:05:46.680 you'll remember, Israel was reluctant to jump on the bandwagon of condemning Putin. In fact,

00:05:53.660 Israel's PM secretly flew to meet Putin. And he says, and this is the news, that Vladimir Putin

00:06:01.420 agreed to two of what Bennett calls big concessions. According to Naftali Bennett, I'm just saying what

00:06:08.800 he said that Vladimir Putin agreed to abandon his demand for the denazification of Ukraine. Now,

00:06:17.920 there are some Nazis there, you know, the Azov battalion actually considered themselves Nazis, but

00:06:22.960 that's also code word for how Russia denounces others in the Kiev regime, as they call it. So Russia would 0.68

00:06:29.460 really drop its demand for regime change of Ukraine, and it would drop the demand for Ukraine to be

00:06:36.760 disarmed. Naftali Bennett said that these were quite large concessions. Here, watch this video.

00:06:43.920 It's in Hebrew, but there's English subtitles, and I'll play it again a little bit later. So watch this

00:06:49.700 video. I think this is huge news, and I ask you, have you seen this anywhere? This is not just some guy.

00:06:57.680 This is not a pundit. This is someone who was there. He was the negotiator. He was the prime

00:07:03.840 minister of a major country. Here, take a look.

00:07:06.780 Go to Germany. 0.63

00:07:07.780 Germany, because Germany is the main role in Europe, and the main role in Europe. And in order to

00:07:18.780 bring an agreement, everyone needs to do things. It's not a protocol of what was, and then what

00:07:24.520 nuances are contenable, and what's... Thank you so much to me.

00:07:27.460 ...

00:07:35.760 and

00:07:37.960 ...

00:07:42.180 ...

00:07:43.140 ...

00:07:45.440 ...

00:07:50.700 ...

00:07:51.740 ...

00:07:55.500 let's say, let's say, let's say,

00:07:57.320 let's say a spectrum of menacing

00:07:59.660 from the most important

00:08:01.280 to the level that now needs to be in Putin.

00:08:04.060 Because he's a rare, and it's not to be able to get rid of it.

00:08:05.480 And who knows?

00:08:06.760 But it's not a problem.

00:08:08.080 But it's not a problem.

00:08:08.640 It's not a problem.

00:08:09.260 Let's say, Boris Johnson

00:08:14.000 was very close to the end.

00:08:17.740 I would say that

00:08:18.420 Macron and Shulz were

00:08:20.020 in the middle of a lot more

00:08:20.920 pragmatic, let's say,

00:08:22.440 and Biden

00:08:24.960 again and again.

00:08:28.080 Let's say,

00:08:28.920 let's say, in a way,

00:08:29.960 I think that there was a

00:08:32.120 a decision for the

00:08:34.340 regime of legitimate

00:08:35.720 that now

00:08:38.360 it's necessary

00:08:39.840 to continue

00:08:41.580 to be Putin

00:08:44.040 and not to be able to

00:08:45.460 to be able to get rid of it.

00:08:46.720 Even in the United States,

00:08:48.240 even in the German,

00:08:48.760 even in the Soviet Union.

00:08:49.220 So they actually have heard of it?

00:08:50.620 Yes, yes.

00:08:51.660 I think that's interesting.

00:09:03.080 I want to go through that now.

00:09:04.140 He said Zelensky made

00:09:05.500 concessions too, by the way.

00:09:07.060 That was obviously an excerpt

00:09:08.360 of a larger video.

00:09:10.160 Zelensky agreed to renounce

00:09:11.860 Ukraine's membership in NATO,

00:09:14.460 which was a real sticking point

00:09:16.120 for Putin.

00:09:17.520 Now, Bennett didn't say

00:09:18.440 the deal was a done deal,

00:09:19.860 but he said it looked promising,

00:09:22.040 sort of more than 50-50 chance.

00:09:23.900 And incredibly,

00:09:25.840 he said he did this

00:09:26.740 in complete coordination

00:09:28.340 with the U.S.,

00:09:29.160 Germany, France.

00:09:30.740 He said he really didn't go there

00:09:32.100 as a party

00:09:32.680 or as an advocate,

00:09:33.600 but rather as a,

00:09:34.900 you know,

00:09:35.420 fair dealer,

00:09:36.220 a negotiator,

00:09:36.960 a mediator,

00:09:37.580 as someone trying to facilitate

00:09:38.680 an outcome.

00:09:39.420 But in the end,

00:09:40.120 as you heard,

00:09:40.920 he was following U.S. guidance.

00:09:42.820 Again,

00:09:43.340 that's to be expected.

00:09:45.640 Now, he named names,

00:09:46.580 didn't he?

00:09:46.860 He said he was in constant touch

00:09:48.660 with State Department officials

00:09:49.760 like Jake Sullivan,

00:09:51.200 Anthony Blinken,

00:09:52.280 and even Joe Biden himself.

00:09:54.780 But here's the crazy part.

00:09:56.080 Bennett says,

00:09:57.580 you saw the translation there,

00:09:59.820 that there was a decision

00:10:00.820 by the West

00:10:01.820 to keep striking Putin,

00:10:04.520 as in,

00:10:05.340 the military didn't want

00:10:06.920 to give up the war part

00:10:08.320 of the war.

00:10:09.920 So the U.S.

00:10:11.080 blocked the deal,

00:10:13.340 Bennett said.

00:10:13.980 And I thought they were wrong,

00:10:16.420 he said.

00:10:18.780 Bennett noted the death toll.

00:10:20.500 He said that it was destroying

00:10:22.400 Ukraine as a country,

00:10:24.640 its infrastructure,

00:10:25.960 that it had international impacts

00:10:27.980 on everything from energy prices,

00:10:30.140 obviously,

00:10:30.560 to food,

00:10:31.640 Ukraine being a breadbasket of food,

00:10:33.500 refugees pouring out of the country.

00:10:35.660 He said Biden made the decision

00:10:37.620 for other reasons,

00:10:38.700 though,

00:10:40.180 for U.S. reasons,

00:10:41.360 not Ukrainian reasons.

00:10:42.600 He said,

00:10:44.280 and you can,

00:10:44.740 you know,

00:10:44.900 we'll have a link

00:10:45.440 to the larger YouTube video,

00:10:46.780 you can watch more yourself.

00:10:47.660 President Biden created

00:10:48.820 an alliance

00:10:49.700 vis-a-vis an aggressor

00:10:51.640 in the general perception,

00:10:53.380 and this reflects

00:10:54.180 on other arenas

00:10:55.100 such as Taiwan.

00:10:58.340 So Biden wanted

00:10:59.360 to make a public statement

00:11:00.740 using Russia

00:11:02.200 in this example.

00:11:03.100 Here,

00:11:03.420 let's watch that clip again.

00:11:04.720 You know what?

00:11:05.300 I'm going to have the link

00:11:06.360 to the full YouTube video

00:11:07.660 because there's other things

00:11:08.940 he gets into,

00:11:09.520 but just,

00:11:09.920 just watch it again.

00:11:11.000 I just thought it was,

00:11:12.880 I can't believe it.

00:11:14.020 Like,

00:11:14.240 you might not recognize

00:11:15.620 Naftali Bennett,

00:11:16.440 but he was the prime minister.

00:11:18.700 And he says he was in touch

00:11:19.900 with every Western counterpart.

00:11:21.800 He was not there

00:11:22.540 as a rogue actor.

00:11:23.860 He was there.

00:11:25.280 Here,

00:11:25.520 take a look.

00:11:26.000 No,

00:11:46.900 he's going to be.

00:11:48.280 I think that together, but I'm not sure, we had the American Americans and Macron.

00:11:57.280 What is the American Americans?

00:11:58.280 Is it the American Americans? 0.54

00:11:59.280 No, it was a part of the whole,

00:12:01.280 it was a part of the United States of the United States of the United States.

00:12:03.280 Jayke Sullivan,

00:12:04.280 in the past, in the past,

00:12:05.280 in the past, in the past,

00:12:06.280 Blinken. 0.94

00:12:07.280 They were very hard.

00:12:08.280 They were very hard.

00:12:09.280 And Boris Johnson.

00:12:10.280 Now, you know,

00:12:12.280 all the way he was,

00:12:13.280 and the way he was,

00:12:14.280 Boris was,

00:12:15.280 let's say,

00:12:16.280 I would say

00:12:44.880 And again, I think that there was a decision for the regime that now needs to continue to work with Putin and not to agree with it.

00:13:04.980 In a few parts, even in the U.S., even in the German, even in the Soviet Union.

00:13:08.600 So they actually did it?

00:13:09.860 Yes, they did it.

00:13:12.420 Look, I think we should ask some questions if we're allowed.

00:13:24.780 And the first question is, is this true?

00:13:27.960 I think that would be pretty easy to test.

00:13:31.040 I mean, he names names.

00:13:32.400 Jake Sullivan, Antony Blinken, Joe Biden, went to France, went to Germany.

00:13:36.740 Did that really happen?

00:13:37.660 I think that should be easy to prove.

00:13:40.600 If it's not true, why would he lie?

00:13:42.420 I don't understand that.

00:13:43.460 Like, he was the prime minister of an important country doing an important mission in touch with important people.

00:13:48.260 Why would he lie about that?

00:13:51.220 What does the United States have to say about the claim that this was scuppered by Joe Biden because Joe Biden wants to set an example of military strength?

00:14:01.820 What is the endgame if that's the case?

00:14:03.920 Because you push too hard against another country and it crumbles.

00:14:08.400 You push too hard against Russia while before they finally crumble, don't they push the nuclear button? 0.97

00:14:15.780 Isn't that what they say about Putin?

00:14:17.760 What, again, is the U.S. interest in Ukraine?

00:14:21.660 Or is it just to pummel Russia, to get that out of the system of generals who were in their 60s and 70s and didn't get a chance to pummel Russia during the Cold War?

00:14:31.320 I don't know.

00:14:31.520 What is the U.S. interest?

00:14:32.520 Is it to project strength and to say to China, look how rough we are with Russia. 0.58

00:14:37.940 We'll be this rough with you.

00:14:39.460 Is that the interest?

00:14:41.100 I'd like to hear articulated and I'd like to hear what the Canadian interest is because I don't think anyone's expecting our aircraft carriers to save Taiwan from China.

00:14:50.140 We don't have any aircraft carriers.

00:14:51.700 So what exactly is the Canadian interest?

00:14:53.900 If the American interest, according to Naftali Bennett, is to carry a big stick and be fearsome, okay, you can accept that or reject that on its own terms.

00:15:04.780 But that clearly cannot be Canada's interest.

00:15:08.160 We're sending, what was it, one single tank, as far as I could tell.

00:15:14.540 And then there's the larger question, and I think Henry Kissinger himself asked this.

00:15:18.260 Henry Kissinger has proposed a settlement not dissimilar from the one Naftali Bennett talked about.

00:15:24.360 Kissinger said, although Russia is a rival and perhaps even an enemy of the West, is it a good idea to destroy it, to destroy its military, to destroy the country, to have regime change?

00:15:38.080 Would it be a good thing to have that vacuum?

00:15:41.040 Would it really just be filled with China?

00:15:42.860 Hey, is anyone open to a diplomatic solution here?

00:15:48.560 Like anyone.

00:15:49.240 I mean, Naftali Bennett obviously believed in it.

00:15:52.040 And for a moment, it looked like Zelensky and Putin were.

00:15:55.560 I wonder if anyone still is.

00:15:58.800 And, you know, I was thinking more about China and its hot air balloon. 0.77

00:16:03.960 We'll talk a little bit more about that with our next guest.

00:16:06.100 But it made me think $100 billion worth of U.S. money and materiel is being sent to Ukraine, not just by the United States, but by other countries.

00:16:17.960 Canada sent one tank, but the U.K. and other European countries.

00:16:21.880 So I headlined the other day that if the U.K. were to do what its former Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants it to do, it would run out of ammunition in a week.

00:16:35.300 Just run out.

00:16:37.100 And, of course, America is shipping its frontline tanks and other vehicles to Ukraine right now.

00:16:43.660 I don't know how long America can use its weapons without replenishing them.

00:16:48.760 And when all these weapons are deployed in the Ukrainian front, well, is the West able to fight a two-front world war against China?

00:17:03.340 Is that, in fact, what we're headed towards?

00:17:08.720 I'm just asking questions, but can you even ask these questions?

00:17:13.500 Can you even show this video of Naftali Bennett without being called a pro-Putin agent?

00:17:21.080 Is the war that important?

00:17:24.120 Stay with us for more with Gordon Chang.

00:17:25.820 Well, expect the unexpected.

00:17:39.200 It was not an ICBM, an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.

00:17:42.960 It was not a high-tech drone or even a cyber attack.

00:17:47.020 It was a balloon, a stratospheric balloon.

00:17:50.200 In a way, it was very low-tech, though it carried a high-tech platform and payload.

00:17:54.620 A balloon from China.

00:17:57.240 They claim it was a weather balloon.

00:17:59.080 They protested when the United States finally shot it down.

00:18:02.780 But what was it?

00:18:04.240 And was its main effect to show just the indecision and, I don't know, lack of self-respect by the U.S. administration?

00:18:13.540 I just want to show you again Antony Blinken's total response to the balloon over U.S. airspace was that everything's fine.

00:18:22.460 He's just going to postpone his trip to Beijing.

00:18:25.600 Hey, take a look at that.

00:18:26.540 I'd just like to briefly address the presence of the Chinese surveillance balloon in U.S. airspace.

00:18:31.660 I spoke this morning with Director of the CCP Central Foreign Affairs Office, Wang Yi, to convey that, in light of China's unacceptable action, I am postponing my planned travel this weekend to China.

00:18:44.980 As you know, President Biden and President Xi agreed during their meetings in Bali in November that I would travel to Beijing to follow up on their discussions.

00:18:55.600 We've been working across the U.S. government to prepare for a substantive set of discussions on issues that matter to the American people and to people around the world.

00:19:03.440 And we've been engaging for some time with our counterparts in Beijing to prepare for these meetings.

00:19:09.880 Yesterday, the Department of Defense announced that we had detected and were tracking a high-altitude surveillance balloon that remains over the continental United States.

00:19:19.500 We continue to track and monitor the balloon closely.

00:19:22.640 We're confident this is a Chinese surveillance balloon. 0.61

00:19:26.840 Once we detected the balloon, the U.S. government acted immediately to protect against the collection of sensitive information.

00:19:33.440 We communicated with the PRC government directly through multiple channels about this issue.

00:19:40.040 Members of my team consulted with our partners in other agencies and in Congress.

00:19:45.140 We also engaged our close allies and partners to inform them of the presence of the surveillance balloon in our airspace.

00:19:51.460 We concluded that conditions were not conducive for a constructive visit at this time.

00:19:56.780 On my call today with Director Wang Yi, I made clear that the presence of this surveillance balloon in U.S. airspace is a clear violation of U.S. sovereignty and international law,

00:20:08.520 that it's an irresponsible act, and that the PRC's decision to take this action on the even by planned visit is detrimental to the substantive discussions that we were prepared to have.

00:20:18.860 If that was the sole response, the sum of the response by the United States, no diplomats ejected, no sanctions, no tit-for-tat, just simply a diplomat delaying a visit, well, maybe the balloon test run was a success.

00:20:44.860 Joining us now to give an expert opinion on this subject, not my layman's musings, is our favorite expert on China matters.

00:20:53.720 You know who I'm talking about.

00:20:55.160 You should be following him, if you're not already, on Twitter at Gordon G. Chang.

00:21:01.080 And he joins us now via Skype.

00:21:03.080 Gordon, great to see you again.

00:21:04.300 So much is going on.

00:21:05.440 I focused on the diplomatic response from the U.S. State Department.

00:21:10.720 But you tell me, what was the most interesting or important angle of the balloon flight?

00:21:16.700 What caught your attention about it?

00:21:20.040 Two things.

00:21:21.120 First of all, I couldn't believe it when I heard that China sailed the balloon into the United States.

00:21:27.540 I mean, I think the Chinese leaders are bold and aggressive, but I didn't think that they would do something like this.

00:21:35.440 The second thing, though, and this is disturbing, is that President Biden was not informed about this until the fourth day that the balloon had intruded into the U.S.

00:21:48.940 It entered U.S. airspace at the Aleutians, traveled through Alaska, then down through your country, Ezra, through the western Canada, and then it entered the U.S.

00:22:01.440 And about the time that it entered the U.S. in Idaho is when Biden was informed about this.

00:22:08.480 By then, it was really too late to shoot it down without causing the possibility of personal and property damage.

00:22:16.040 So, basically, the United States allowed this balloon to survey some of its most sensitive military sites.

00:22:25.360 I think that the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should have notified Biden as soon as this got anywhere close to U.S. airspace.

00:22:35.580 Because they could track this thing as it was coming towards the Aleutians.

00:22:40.640 And that shows a fundamental failure in the Pentagon.

00:22:44.060 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:22:46.460 I refreshed my knowledge about what used to be called the dew line, the distant early warning line.

00:22:52.800 It's basically the north perimeter of North America, but also the west coast.

00:22:59.040 Alaska, Yukon, Canada's British Columbia.

00:23:02.780 It is full of high-tech radar.

00:23:06.220 And, I mean, this thing was not going very fast.

00:23:08.900 It was apparently visible to the naked eye.

00:23:11.700 It must have been detected.

00:23:13.440 Like, it actually flew all along the radar lines.

00:23:17.760 What's your working theory for why this was apparently not told to Biden?

00:23:24.360 I'm sure Justin Trudeau was not advised of it.

00:23:27.560 And certainly the public was not advised.

00:23:29.660 What's the thinking there?

00:23:30.840 What do you think went on?

00:23:31.920 Why did that happen?

00:23:32.760 You know, I cannot think of a good reason why the President of the United States, the Commander-in-Chief, was not informed.

00:23:41.320 And that means I think that there needs to be a serious investigation of this done on an urgent basis.

00:23:48.720 Because there is no reason not to tell the Commander-in-Chief about this.

00:23:53.840 I have an alternative theory.

00:23:56.380 And, again, this is pure speculation.

00:23:57.860 I have no basis for it.

00:23:58.920 But I'm trying to think of a plausible explanation.

00:24:02.660 And let me try this out.

00:24:04.460 That, in fact, the White House, if not the President himself, was alerted.

00:24:08.500 But there was a decision made not to make a fuss, not to make an international incident.

00:24:15.560 And maybe this thing, I don't know, it sounds ridiculous given that it was visible to the naked eye.

00:24:19.980 But maybe everyone thought, well, this will just pass and we don't need a challenge with China right now.

00:24:26.360 We don't need, you know, to have an incident.

00:24:28.900 Let's just pretend this isn't happening.

00:24:31.040 Because I tell you, presidents, both Democrat and Republican, have turned a blind eye to Chinese aggression in the past.

00:24:38.720 I think it was under George W. Bush when a U.S. Navy intelligence aircraft was forcibly landed, stripped of its high-tech equipment before being returned to the U.S.

00:24:50.180 I'm sure you know the case I'm talking about.

00:24:52.380 And it sure felt like the U.S. side was trying to pretend nothing bad was happening because they didn't want to be moved off their diplomatic track.

00:25:00.260 I don't know.

00:25:01.100 That's just a speculative theory on my part.

00:25:04.040 Well, we know that the Biden administration tried to hide this from the American public.

00:25:09.060 And then it couldn't because people on the ground actually saw this thing and it was reported.

00:25:14.380 I should have said, if Biden was telling the truth, that he was not briefed before Tuesday.

00:25:19.720 But I assume that he was telling the truth.

00:25:23.440 But, you know, you're obviously right.

00:25:24.980 We go back to April 1st, 2001, when a Chinese fighter clipped the wing of the U.S. Navy unarmed reconnaissance plane, the EP-3.

00:25:35.680 The plane had to land at the Chinese airbase in Hainan Island.

00:25:40.120 Our crew was detained, basically held for ransom, and the Chinese stripped the plane.

00:25:45.200 And the administration of George W. Bush just sort of let this pass.

00:25:51.200 And that set a precedent.

00:25:52.900 And that taught the Chinese that they could be aggressive. 1.00

00:25:55.620 And we have paid for that ever since.

00:25:57.840 And I think that when we look at the history of Chinese intercepts, we have to be concerned that it is the United States that opened the door to this belligerent conduct.

00:26:10.340 Yeah.

00:26:10.920 I mentioned the Hainan plane downing because it shows this is a bipartisan thing.

00:26:17.600 I mean, I'm quite critical of the Democrats, but it was George W. Bush who, as you say, opened the door.

00:26:22.720 Now, let me ask you about the balloon itself.

00:26:24.640 In a way, it's laughably low tech.

00:26:26.920 I mean, I was trying to get an estimate of the price of this balloon, and I couldn't get a good one.

00:26:33.080 But you can buy stratospheric weather balloons, very similar to this, for under $1,000.

00:26:40.820 Now, I'm not saying this may have been fancy and extra, and I'm sure the payload was expensive.

00:26:46.300 But, like, talk about a low tech device.

00:26:50.220 And part of my thought, well, is it necessary?

00:26:52.680 Because surely the Chinese government has satellites, they have on-the-ground intelligence, they have electronic intelligence.

00:26:59.800 I mean, you know, who knows if there's apps on cell phones and people in army bases.

00:27:04.660 Like, I was trying to think to myself, is there anything in the United States that the Chinese government doesn't know, even through, if you know the company DJI.

00:27:14.240 They're one of the world's leading manufacturers of recreational drones, toy drones.

00:27:19.140 The kids fly.

00:27:20.160 All the drone footage that people use around America through DJI goes through China.

00:27:27.160 It's stored on servers in China.

00:27:28.680 I personally believe that the Chinese government has mapped every square inch of North America through DJI, this toy drone company that just happens to feed all your video through China.

00:27:40.580 So, I was thinking, what did they learn from a balloon that they didn't learn from satellites, drones, electronic information gathering, or even spies?

00:27:49.840 Why a balloon?

00:27:52.280 Well, a couple of reasons.

00:27:53.440 First of all, a balloon can hover and a satellite cannot.

00:27:56.820 A balloon's at, that balloon was at 60,000 feet.

00:28:00.180 And a satellite is in low Earth orbit, much higher up.

00:28:04.900 So, they could learn a lot from this balloon.

00:28:09.700 And the reason why they have them is because there are things that they can't obtain otherwise.

00:28:14.780 But the most important thing is they were learned about America's reactions.

00:28:19.640 They saw how we reacted or didn't react to the intrusion.

00:28:25.360 And that told them a lot, which they could never get any other way.

00:28:29.220 Yeah.

00:28:29.420 I found that reaction frustrating.

00:28:33.360 And I take your point about you don't want to shoot down something when there's people below.

00:28:37.400 But, you know, I know Alaska a little bit.

00:28:39.620 And I certainly know northern Canada.

00:28:42.060 It is so barren. 1.00

00:28:43.020 It is so sparse.

00:28:45.180 Like, in the northwest territories of Canada, it's 0.08 people per square mile.

00:28:52.860 I mean, it's almost deserted up there.

00:28:55.520 That's where they should have taken it down, in my layman's opinion.

00:28:58.780 But let's go to an expert.

00:29:01.300 Oh, absolutely.

00:29:02.620 That's the reason why the failure to notify Biden before Tuesday, if he's telling the truth, is so consequential.

00:29:09.300 Because they could have brought it down over Alaska or Canada.

00:29:12.880 And they wouldn't even hit the bears because the bears were hibernating.

00:29:17.300 So.

00:29:18.220 It really is the case up there.

00:29:20.100 It's almost uninhabited.

00:29:22.080 A very sparse population.

00:29:23.480 I'm a layman, and I'm filling the air time here with my guesses because I find it so curious.

00:29:29.340 But there's an expert named General Mike Minahan, who is apparently an Air Force general.

00:29:34.420 And his opinion was leaked.

00:29:36.260 And he says that the U.S. should be preparing for war with China in 2025.

00:29:43.360 Now, that may sound futuristic, but that's just two years away.

00:29:46.560 I think he's stating the obvious.

00:29:48.920 I mean, I think certainly China is preparing for a war right now.

00:29:51.760 Do you think this was leaked to wake up the political class?

00:29:59.000 I don't think that Joe Biden regards China as an enemy or even a rival.

00:30:05.560 I think he regards them as a strategic partner, maybe a challenge.

00:30:08.840 But I don't think that Joe Biden is even thinking in those terms.

00:30:12.440 Am I wrong?

00:30:13.000 You're not wrong about that, because he has never called China an adversary, much less an enemy.

00:30:20.560 They're an enemy.

00:30:21.780 He just calls them a competitor.

00:30:23.660 And on Monday, Biden told reporters that the spy balloon incident would not weaken U.S.-China relations.

00:30:31.500 That's like the most incredible thing that I've ever heard an American president say.

00:30:37.020 So you can see that he's just teaching the Chinese.

00:30:42.840 Provocative behavior will result in no cost.

00:30:45.880 I think one of the aesthetic criticisms of Donald Trump as president was his unpredictableness, his chaotic sense, and that he would blurt things out on Twitter.

00:30:58.580 And I think there was a method to the madness.

00:31:00.100 But certainly, people like Kim Jong-un of North Korea did not know what Donald Trump would do.

00:31:09.080 Vladimir Putin didn't know what Donald Trump would do.

00:31:13.220 Perhaps it's not a cause and effect, but it is hard not to notice that Russia invaded Ukraine under Barack Obama and Joe Biden, but not under Trump in the middle.

00:31:22.460 And I just can't believe for a second that Xi Jinping would have risked this move had Donald Trump been president.

00:31:32.160 I don't know what Trump would have done, but I don't think he would have been tested with this challenge because I can't imagine that the Chinese government would have rolled the dice on this if Trump was in office.

00:31:44.560 And this is not my affection for Trump, although I am affectionate towards him.

00:31:48.080 This is me saying he scared the bad guys because he sort of came across as a bad guy in some ways himself.

00:31:56.400 You know, don't mess with him.

00:31:58.320 But Biden was so—they got his number.

00:32:02.040 They knew he would be submissive and obedient.

00:32:04.360 What do you think of all that?

00:32:06.760 Yeah, I agree.

00:32:07.840 I agree with that.

00:32:08.980 Now, last couple days, the Defense Department said that there were three balloon incursions during the Trump era, but they were pretty minor.

00:32:16.960 And matter of fact, the Defense Department didn't even know about them because they were so well disguised.

00:32:23.700 This was very different.

00:32:25.280 This was in your face.

00:32:26.920 You can't avoid what they did.

00:32:29.680 But I agree with you.

00:32:30.660 It was Trump's unpredictability that really got the Chinese and the Russians and the North Koreans and the Iranians and just about everybody else.

00:32:39.440 They behaved during those four years.

00:32:42.660 You know, the aesthetics were awful, you could argue, but he got the job done.

00:32:46.200 Last question.

00:32:48.300 I mean, we're thinking about this in North America, and we're pretty far away from the action.

00:32:54.540 But if I was in Taiwan, if I was in Japan, if I was in the region within reach of the People's Liberation Army, I would be a little bit nervous about the U.S. response.

00:33:06.940 Have you seen any commentary from Taiwan or Japan or South Korea on this matter, or have they been pretty tight-lipped about it?

00:33:15.520 They've been tight-lipped, but Japan is now talking about changing their laws about balloon incursions.

00:33:25.400 And, you know, in China, I mean, in Japan, it's pretty legalistic.

00:33:28.480 But they are going to, I think, have more robust measures against balloons because they have seen these balloon incursions in the past.

00:33:38.720 There have been a lot of them in Asia, as you can imagine.

00:33:41.420 So this has been a wake-up call for everyone.

00:33:44.360 This could very well be like Sputnik in October 1957.

00:33:47.620 It just wakes everybody up.

00:33:50.720 Very interesting.

00:33:51.660 Well, what a pleasure to catch up with you.

00:33:53.640 You taught us things as you always do.

00:33:55.740 And you're right.

00:33:56.320 A balloon is much lower than a satellite.

00:33:58.840 And its slow pace is actually a benefit, not a flaw.

00:34:05.360 The fact that it just goes slow and hovers, you're right.

00:34:09.280 And especially as it went over those ICBM fields in Montana.

00:34:12.240 Very interesting.

00:34:13.460 Well, listen, thanks for fitting us in your schedule.

00:34:15.340 I know you're in such high demand for your commentary.

00:34:18.140 That's why I tell people to follow you on Twitter at Gordon G. Chang so they can get your updates around the clock.

00:34:26.020 And I follow you very closely.

00:34:28.020 Thank you, my friend.

00:34:29.120 And keep up the fight for freedom.

00:34:30.780 You're one of our favorite guests and a real fan favorite, too.

00:34:34.800 Oh, well, thank you so much, Ezra.

00:34:36.120 I really appreciate the opportunity.

00:34:37.840 And at this very dangerous moment, stay safe.

00:34:41.620 All right.

00:34:42.060 Will do.

00:34:42.920 There you have it, Gordon G. Chang.

00:34:44.120 Stay with us.

00:34:46.040 More ahead.

00:34:58.140 Hello, my rebels.

00:34:59.360 David McGennedy says that balloon could easily have been carrying biological weapons.

00:35:04.620 Anyone remember COVID?

00:35:05.660 Yeah, I mean, as Gordon G. Chang said, you know, it could have electronic intelligence gathering equipment in there because it's much lower than satellites, which are many miles high.

00:35:20.380 60,000 feet is a lot lower than 100,000 feet or 200,000 feet.

00:35:27.140 Sheephunter7 says, apparently, Ezra's not actually researched this topic from beyond what the mainstream media said about it.

00:35:33.600 Just putting his own spin on it does not make it credible.

00:35:35.800 Well, perhaps reading a little from a few East Asian news and research sites, including ECNS would help Ezra on this one.

00:35:42.860 Well, I have no idea what ECNS is.

00:35:45.760 I think I showed you some of my sources, but I really don't know the answer to the question.

00:35:50.160 China has acknowledged that it is their device, but they claim it's an innocuous weather device.

00:35:57.080 They've also condemned the West for shooting it down.

00:36:01.260 America has been laughably weak.

00:36:03.580 They apparently recovered the fallen parts, but I don't think they've revealed what they are yet.

00:36:07.720 So I don't know.

00:36:08.520 I mean, I don't think I said that my comments were much more than speculation.

00:36:11.860 Pike says, this new Vancouver mayor is the most woke joke we've seen yet.

00:36:17.440 Who voted in this guy?

00:36:19.160 Well, that's what was so sad when our friend Aaron told us about the reaction to criticism of the downtown Eastside that the mayor was going woke.

00:36:29.980 It made me sad because I know this mayor was supposed to replace the previous woke mayor who used to be an NDP MP.

00:36:36.940 Well, hopefully he'll get his bearings back.

00:36:40.300 That's our show for today.

00:36:43.020 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night.

00:36:47.580 And keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - February 08, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Did Israel broker a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia — and did Joe Biden nix it？

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