Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Doug Ford's booze ban proves gov't monopolies never work

00:00:00.000 Tonight, what are the political booze rules in the province of Ontario in terms of what gets on the

00:00:07.780 shelf and what gets taken off? Well, it's kind of like that Meryl Streep movie. It's complicated.

00:00:15.120 It's Friday, October 10th, 2025. I'm David Menzies and this is the Ezra Levent Show.

00:00:22.620 You know, for a guy who says he doesn't drink alcohol, Ontario Premier Doug Ford seems downright

00:00:44.800 obsessed over booze, doesn't he? It all began with a weird obsession going back some seven years ago

00:00:51.920 in which Ford promised on the campaign trail that Ontarians would be able to buy a can of beer

00:00:58.560 for a dollar. Buck-a-beer, buck-a-beer, buck-a-beer, Ford promised.

00:01:05.500 I'd buy that for a dollar. Yeah, and how did that turn out? Well, I think buck-a-beer in Ontario

00:01:13.020 lasted for all of two weeks. Then the price soared. Gee, today you can't even buy swill

00:01:20.920 like Bud Light for a buck. Even to a guy like me, that's cold. But really, given all the problems

00:01:27.820 facing Ontarians then and now, you know, like unemployment, a record deficit in debt,

00:01:35.560 school boards being infiltrated by Marxists and Islamists, and so much more, were Ontarians ever 0.78

00:01:43.040 really all that obsessed about getting a can of suds for a loony? Give me a break already.

00:01:50.580 But from promising cheaper alcohol products, Ford these days is all about banning certain booze

00:01:58.840 from the shelves of his bloated booze monopoly that would be the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

00:02:05.740 Oh, but make no mistake, the LCBO is indeed all about control. Ontario isn't Alberta, which has enjoyed

00:02:14.440 a fully privatized system since 1994. That was the right move then. It's the right move now, of course.

00:02:23.180 I mean, there is a role when it comes to the government and alcohol, and that role is to tax and regulate

00:02:29.260 the product, not to warehouse and retail the stuff. Still, with Ford going on a booze banning jihad,

00:02:37.740 one wonders if the LCBO will have any liquor left to control in the months ahead. And disturbingly,

00:02:46.520 the booze banning has nothing to do with quality control or sales figures, and everything to do

00:02:54.280 with political grandstanding. This trend kicked off in 2022 when Ford ordered the LCBO to yank Russian

00:03:03.180 vodka off the shelves. This was due to the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine. Three years later,

00:03:10.860 well, knock me down with a feather. These two nations are still at war. Golly, Ford wasn't able

00:03:17.580 to intimidate Vladimir Putin to sue for peace. Shockers. But at least Ford scored a PR photo op,

00:03:26.700 and Doug Ford loves photo ops almost as much as he loves his cherished cherry cheesecake.

00:03:34.780 If I wasn't Premier, I'd open up a cheesecake factory. That, my friends, is the Premier's cheesecake.

00:03:41.980 Friends, stay safe. Stay healthy. And these are some of the fun things you can do when you're self-isolating.

00:03:55.100 I haven't had one of these in years.

00:03:56.460 Yeah, what a fun thing to do when being quarantined. Sit around all day eating garbage.

00:04:02.300 But these days, Ford orchestrating booze banning photo ops as opposed to, oh, I don't know, doing

00:04:09.180 something tangible. It's getting a tad boring, wouldn't you say? Case in point, earlier this year,

00:04:15.980 all U.S. liquor products ranging from California wines to Kentucky bourbons were also pulled from

00:04:23.580 LCBO shelves as a result of the ongoing tariff tiff between the U.S. and Canada.

00:04:30.540 But let's think about this for a moment, shall we? What was taking $1 billion worth of bought and paid

00:04:39.260 for inventory off the shelves of the LCBO? What was it supposed to achieve? These products are now

00:04:47.100 taking up space in a warehouse somewhere, which is being paid for by Ontario's ever beleaguered taxpayers,

00:04:54.620 of course. Thanks, Dougie. Whatever happened to your old, albeit brilliant slogan, respect for taxpayers?

00:05:03.580 I mean, even if you agree with banning U.S. booze, why not sell off the existing inventory, advising

00:05:12.380 customers that when this stuff is gone, it's gone? Oh yeah, what am I saying? That would eradicate that

00:05:19.980 stupid photo op of LCBO staffers yanking U.S. hutch off the shelves. So take that, Donald Trump. 1.00

00:05:29.340 You know, this is the very reason why monopolies, especially government-run monopolies,

00:05:35.420 are both odious and egregious. Indeed, selectively playing politics and banning certain boos thanks to

00:05:44.380 country of origin is an example of an abusive monopoly. And because the provincial government

00:05:51.660 owns and operates the LCBO monopoly, all this booze cancelling qualifies as abuse of regulatory authority

00:06:03.420 someone really ought to sue. And please don't tell me that if I love Kentucky bourbon so much,

00:06:09.980 I can just take a day trip and cross the border to say New York state or Michigan and pick up a bottle

00:06:15.980 in the U.S. of A. There's just one hitch to that strategy. Cost. Remember when I went to a Detroit

00:06:25.260 liquor store last month, folks? Like a rube, I actually declared my bottle of Booker's bourbon at the

00:06:33.500 Detroit-Windsor border crossing. Spoiler alert. I found out that honesty is not the best policy. Check it out.

00:06:43.020 Now, as you can see, this is the bourbon of choice when I come to the U.S. Booker's. It's expensive. It's

00:06:52.700 $120 U.S. But you can't get this at the LCBO because of Doug Ford's photo op of removing all American

00:07:03.020 booze from the LCBO. In fact, you can't get even the cheapest bourbon because anything from Kentucky,

00:07:10.540 anything from California, that is product non grata. So I'm going to do the honest thing. I'm going to

00:07:16.940 declare this at the border. Wonder what the penalty will be in terms of taxation, tariff, customs,

00:07:24.780 however you want to call it. Now, here's the other thing. This is ZIN. Yes, it contains nicotine,

00:07:33.900 but certainly not as much nicotine as what's allowed for sale in Canada. And by the way,

00:07:40.060 there's been recent studies showing that ZIN, the consumption of which helps those with Parkinson's

00:07:48.940 disease, but Health Canada does not approve this. So what does that mean? Is it more than paying a

00:07:56.860 customs fee? Is it actually getting this confiscated? Even though Tobacco Classic is sold in Canada,

00:08:05.740 we're going to see when we cross the border about an hour from now. Well, folks, we just emerged from

00:08:11.420 the Detroit Windsor Tunnel and we told the truth that we had a bottle of bourbon and a package of ZIN.

00:08:21.660 Oh, did we pay a price? Let's start with the ZIN. As you can see, this is me consenting to voluntary

00:08:31.100 confiscation of the ZIN. The other option was to go back to the United States and use it there or give

00:08:39.180 it away there. But given that it's a $6.99 item, well, you would pay more in the toll to do that. So I had

00:08:49.420 no choice but to give it away. And by the way, they told me they're going to destroy it. And the reason

00:08:54.060 is that ZIN is six milligrams of nicotine. The limit is four milligrams of nicotine. Now you can get

00:09:05.180 higher nicotine in Canada, but by prescription. So you see, it's the federal government hand in hand

00:09:13.900 with big pharma. Big pharma wants it's cut. It doesn't want you getting the high nicotine product

00:09:21.340 from the convenience store or the liquor store. So there you have it. Here is what the taxman wanted

00:09:29.100 for declaring the bourbon. We'll start with $6.57 in duty. Oh, that's not bad. Oh, but wait. Then we have

00:09:40.940 the GST, HST component. That's $22.45. And oh, well, you hear this one. The provincial liquor markup fee,

00:09:55.020 $103.45. So the grand total, $132.47. So let's pretend we're in a chronology where the US and

00:10:10.620 Canadian dollar are on par. I paid more in provincial markups, GST, HST and duty than what I paid for the

00:10:21.660 actual bottle, $132.47 versus $120. So I guess at the end of the day, I want to meet the jokers who coined

00:10:31.740 the phrases, honesty is the best policy and crime doesn't pay. And as for you, Premier Ford, you forced

00:10:42.700 me into this position. You won't allow me to buy a bottle of bourbon at your crown liquor monopoly.

00:10:51.740 You know what? To quote Mike elbows up Myers,

00:10:55.660 you really are a fat bastard. Yeah, I won't be making that mistake ever again. But now comes word 1.00

00:11:04.220 that Doug Ford isn't quite done yet with the booze banning. And the latest threatened booze ban

00:11:13.260 is really the most illogical one of all. You see, Ford is threatening to delist all Diageo products from

00:11:21.580 the LCBO come February. Diageo owns Crown Royal and the Crown Royal bottling facility in Amherstburg,

00:11:30.780 Ontario, which is near Windsor, is slated to close early next year. Diageo, it should be noted,

00:11:39.100 is a booze behemoth. In the fiscal year ending in June 2025, it had more than US $20 billion in revenue.

00:11:49.980 But when the Amherstburg plant is shuttered, 160 workers will be given their pink slips.

00:11:58.140 This will be a debilitating blow for this town of 25,000. By the way, how is this even happening? I mean,

00:12:08.140 isn't this why Mark Captain Canuck Carney, Ford's newest best boyfriend in Ottawa, was elected in April?

00:12:16.220 He was going to save the day and end the tariff dispute and make Canada great again or something

00:12:22.940 like that. However, it looks like elbows up has been replaced with knees down, but never mind.

00:12:29.820 For its part, Diageo says the closure of the plant has nothing to do with the ongoing tariff tiff.

00:12:36.380 Marsha McIntosh, Diageo's president of North America Supply, said the following in a

00:12:43.100 statement, quote, this was a difficult decision, but one that is crucial to improving the efficiency

00:12:50.540 and resiliency of our supply chain network, end quote. Now, I did reach out to Diageo's media

00:12:57.580 relations department for further comment, but I never heard back. I also paid a visit to the Crown Royal

00:13:03.420 plant last month, but employees told me they had been instructed not to speak to the media.

00:13:09.980 Naturally, the upcoming closure did not go unnoticed by Premier Ford, and shockers, you guessed it,

00:13:19.900 Ford staged a photo op, this time pouring a large bottle of Crown Royal down the drain.

00:13:26.460 So, you know something? I found a bottle, and I don't even drink, of Crown Royal, right? I see that Crown Royal, I saw it at home.

00:13:35.020 So, this is what I think about Crown Royal. That's what they could do. And I think everyone else should do the same thing.

00:13:43.100 Start supporting companies that make whiskey here by Ontario people. That's what we need to do,

00:13:51.900 and support each other. You know something? I've got to make this even come out quicker,

00:13:56.060 because it's not coming out. I know Mayor Barry wants to lie on the floor right now.

00:14:01.500 No thanks. I wish I could get the soap coming out quicker, but I'll stand here until it falls.

00:14:08.460 Nice. What's more, a blustery Ford threatened to play hardball with Diageo should the closure

00:14:14.940 go through as scheduled, which is to say all Diageo products would be delisted from LCBO stores.

00:14:24.060 That's a big deal. In addition to Crown Royal, Diageo produces more than 200 brands of booze,

00:14:30.700 including Johnny Walker Scotch, Captain Morgan Rum, Tangeri Gin, Bailey's Irish Cream, and Guinness Beer.

00:14:41.020 Ford says the LCBO is Diageo's biggest customer, with sales of its products at the LCBO amounting to more

00:14:50.220 than 740 million per year. So far, the company has not reversed course and intends to close

00:14:58.940 the Amherstburg facility in February as planned. Now, I'm of two minds about Ford's strategy here, folks.

00:15:08.060 The announced closure is, of course, horrible news for this town, and I very much feel for the Crown Royal employees

00:15:16.700 who will be out of a job in the months ahead if the closure indeed goes through.

00:15:22.300 Windsor already has a staggering 11.2% unemployment rate. Where will these workers find jobs?

00:15:31.660 But by the same token, in the bigger picture, I wonder, just what are the rules when it comes to those

00:15:40.220 alcohol products that get delisted in Ontario, not due to lack of demand, but rather due to politics?

00:15:49.740 Well, let's start with Crown Royal, which is as Canadian as you can get. Crown Royal whiskey is distilled

00:15:57.580 and aged in Gimli, Manitoba. There's also a bottling facility in Valleyfield, Quebec. As well,

00:16:05.180 the ingredients in Crown Royal, such as corn, rye, and barley, are grown in Western Canada by Canadian

00:16:12.940 farmers. Also, the Canadian headquarters and the warehouse operations of DAGO are situated in the

00:16:20.300 Toronto area. So, if Ford goes through with his threat, this is going to affect everyone from farmers

00:16:29.100 in the prairies to bottlers in Quebec. Last time I checked, those folks were still carrying Canadian

00:16:36.940 passports. Oh, and here's another thing. Last time I surfed the LCBO's website, it was stocking some 176

00:16:47.580 products from China! 176! But why? China has an egregious human rights record. China is conducting 0.80

00:16:58.060 a genocide of its Uyghur people. China has delivered a debilitating hit on Canuck canola farmers by

00:17:07.020 slapping Canadian canola seed with a 78.5% tariff, not to mention a 100% duty on canola oil, meal,

00:17:16.620 and peas. And let us never, ever forget that the People's Republic of China was responsible for the 0.83

00:17:24.540 COVID-19 pandemic, which killed millions of people and cost the world's economy untold trillions of

00:17:33.900 dollars. So, why does this communist dictatorship get a free pass at the LCBO? Why the hell are we doing

00:17:43.660 business with these people when we don't need to? If Ting Cao beer is pulled from the shelves, well,

00:17:50.780 too bad, so sad. Pick up a six-pack of Labatt Blue or choose from hundreds of other brands that are

00:17:57.180 domestically produced. You know, products that are bottled in Canada with Canadian ingredients

00:18:03.100 and made by Canadian workers. Now, I did reach out to the Ontario Ministry of Finance, which oversees the

00:18:10.140 LCBO. But like all ministries in Ontario under Ford these days, they are under a gag order and will not

00:18:17.980 comment to the independent media. Pathetic. Gee, maybe we need to rebrand this province as the 0.99

00:18:26.060 Democratic People's Republic of Ontario and perhaps get Doug Ford fitted for a crown. At least that would

00:18:32.940 amount to some truth in advertising. Then again, perhaps Doug Ford, like his former Ontario-based

00:18:39.420 best buddy, Justin Trudeau, also has a level of admiration for China, end quote. Or maybe, just maybe,

00:18:49.260 China makes the world's finest cherry cheesecake. If that's the case, you think Doug Ford is gonna rock

00:18:55.660 that boat? But the booze brouhaha in Ontario tells you all you need to know about the Ford PCs. They are

00:19:05.740 all sizzle and no steak. They certainly aren't conservative. It's disgraceful. It's sad. It's

00:19:14.140 nonsensical. It's self-defeating. And in the meantime, I'm praying every day that Ontario doesn't end up

00:19:23.260 getting into some sort of stupid dispute with Scotland, because if Doug Ford declares they 0.99

00:19:29.980 yanked scotch from LCBO shelves. Well, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, 0.99

00:19:36.380 of course, you know, this means war.

00:19:43.100 I know in Ontario, where the sea lions kiss, so the story goes. It's amazing shows and friendship code.

00:19:57.820 Everyone loves marine land. You'll be spending, diving, and soaring high. I rode a coaster ride,

00:20:05.820 we'll fly you to the sky. Now you know what you say when you leave here today. Everyone loves marine land.

00:20:16.220 Yes, that was then. And this is now, if you were to revise the theme song for the now defunct park

00:20:24.460 known as Marine Land and Game Farm, I would say everybody hates marine land would be more appropriate.

00:20:32.940 And a new low was reached earlier this week, with marine land basically telling the government that

00:20:42.940 either pay up or we're going to kill off the remaining stock of beluga whales. It's unbelievable.

00:20:52.220 Once upon a time, marine land was a thriving theme park, but now they're selling off the land.

00:20:57.660 They're selling off the thrill rides and they were trying to sell off their marine mammal stock,

00:21:04.460 namely sending the belugas to a similar park in China until the federal government put the kibosh 0.93

00:21:12.940 on that. So where do we go from here? Well folks, joining me now is Phil Demere. He is a former

00:21:22.300 trainer of whales at Marine Land in Niagara Falls and he is now a whistleblower and very much a thorn in

00:21:31.660 the side of the people who are operating this now defunct park. Phil, thank you so much. Welcome to the

00:21:39.020 Ezra Levent Show. Thanks for having me. Well Phil, first of all, let's begin with the, you know,

00:21:47.660 the decision by the federal government where they blocked marine land from sending these whales

00:21:55.180 to China. Now, a lot of people are saying, if you do so, you're committing those whales to a death

00:22:02.940 sentence or at least misery in those apparently polluted and cramped tanks. But others are saying

00:22:11.580 that was the right call because it'll just be more of the same in China. Where do you weigh in,

00:22:17.180 my friend? I think in the balance of things, the decision to send them to China would have been

00:22:23.900 responsible. The facilities in China are, for the most part, way newer. In fact, many brand new. The

00:22:32.940 specific facility called Chimelong Ocean Kingdom in China, where Marine Land was intent on sending the

00:22:39.580 belugas. They have some of the world's largest tanks and the quality of the water is really good.

00:22:45.580 And obviously the life support systems are up to date, et cetera. The minister ultimately made the

00:22:51.660 decision because in the spirit of the law that we passed in 2019 called Bill S203, it basically

00:23:01.180 ends marine mammal captivity in Canada with the caveat that exporting the animals can only be approved if it's

00:23:07.820 the interest if it's in the interest of the animal. As well in that law was a breeding ban. Now, in China,

00:23:15.020 they continue to do performances. So, you know, trainers will enter the water, et cetera, with the beluga whales.

00:23:20.620 And as well, they breed whales. So she really sort of hung the bulk of her rationale on the idea of

00:23:27.980 stopping that. But the reality for these whales is the only options for them is sideways.

00:23:35.740 So it's another tank at another place. Again, I stress that most places have better conditions

00:23:42.860 than Marine Land, but a question of the animal law oversight and enforcement comes in, you know,

00:23:49.020 comes into play in those considerations. But that said, when you've got 30 whales to deal with and

00:23:55.740 only so many facilities in the U.S. and only so many facilities around the world that can take them,

00:23:59.580 by eliminating some of the better facilities in the world, you really narrow the options to not much

00:24:05.020 better. So much is left to be seen on where this goes. But I think that's a decision that's going to

00:24:10.620 be revisited. So, Phil, assuming the government doesn't flip-flop on this decision, as you said,

00:24:16.620 there are options. What are the options? For example, I understand there are some sanctuaries out there.

00:24:24.620 Is that viable? There are not sanctuaries out there. There are proposed ideas. There are theories.

00:24:32.380 None are operational. One tried in Iceland, but unfortunately it wasn't working out. And so it's

00:24:39.020 taken more steps back than forward. And the proposed one in Nova Scotia is merely a theory. They do not

00:24:44.860 have the landowner's approval. So call them a painting on the wall and a fancy presentation. But there's no

00:24:50.220 viability, no realistic chance of sending them anywhere that's a proposal of that nature. And

00:24:57.260 frankly, that would take years and years and years and years. And many of those sanctuaries have already

00:25:04.380 been claiming that they would be ready for years and years and years and years. And using the Nova

00:25:11.020 Scotia sanctuary proposal as an example, they started saying in 2019 that they would be ready the following

00:25:18.380 year to get animals. Well, 30 whales have just about 30 whales have died in that time. And there's

00:25:24.380 been exactly zero progress. So as many whales have died since the proposal of the sanctuary idea,

00:25:29.900 then there are remaining. And there's been zero progress on that front. So really, when I stress

00:25:35.020 that the only options remaining are sideways and perhaps north in the sense of being a little bit

00:25:39.980 better, is that there are facilities in the US, there's six of them that still have belugas in 1.00

00:25:44.700 captivity. They don't do performances. So it's for the most part, display only. And I don't want to

00:25:49.820 be quoted, but I don't think they're breeding them. I know that SeaWorld has an in-house policy

00:25:55.420 that they've stopped breeding their orcas. I can't be certain that that's extended to their

00:26:00.060 beluga whales, but I've not heard of a beluga whale born in the US recently in a long time. Now,

00:26:05.580 one of the issues with the US is they don't want to do business with Marineland because they had

00:26:09.820 only years ago sent five beluga whales to Mystic Aquarium, three of which died within weeks and

00:26:16.940 months of that facility receiving them because they were sick animals. Another one was on death's

00:26:22.700 door, but recovered. And a number of years ago, Marineland also had to sue SeaWorld to get back

00:26:28.860 one of their loner orcas. So in the US, Marineland has a rather tarnished corporate name. So no one

00:26:35.820 really wants to affiliate. But I do see a scenario where if the government does seize the animals,

00:26:41.020 maybe those facilities will come to the table to discuss caretaking those animals or taking them and

00:26:45.980 adhering to the spirit of the Canadian law, which is not to breed them or use them for entertainment.

00:26:51.020 And maybe some of those whales can find themselves a home in the US. But outside of that, there's not much

00:26:56.780 more. Phil, what I'm sure you hear this chorus of voices that are saying, well, for goodness sakes,

00:27:03.980 just release them back into the wild. I'm not a marine biologist expert by any stretch,

00:27:11.420 but I'm assuming an animal like a beluga whale, years in captivity, being fed hand to mouth,

00:27:19.900 this free willy fantasy, if you will, it just isn't viable that that would indeed be a death sentence

00:27:27.900 for these belugas as well. What say you, my friend, side of doing it really, really responsibly,

00:27:34.700 responsibly, which is, which would be very arduous, very expensive, it would require infrastructure,

00:27:40.860 and etc, etc. It's not something in the interest of the animals, those animals need to remain under

00:27:46.220 human care. And again, even if we were to take approximate steps and trying to re-release into the

00:27:50.220 wild, it would take years and years and years, and not all the animals would be candidates,

00:27:55.500 not all of them would be successful at it. For context, two of the remaining beluga whales at

00:28:01.580 Marineland were actually captured from the wild. The rest have been born in captivity. So they've

00:28:06.620 only ever known captivity. Captivity has compromised them, not only in their instincts, but in their

00:28:12.220 physical being. They are different whales now with different sets of needs. And if we're going to

00:28:16.940 accommodate those, those needs, they need to remain under human care. Phil, what do you make of that,

00:28:23.420 I thought, shocking announcement by Marineland, where they said to the government, pay us because

00:28:30.140 these whales, it costs a million or two to feed them every month. Pay us or we kill them. It was 1.00

00:28:38.220 basically, A, extortion. And B, I understand that if you're going to euthanize an endangered animal,

00:28:47.500 unless it's very sick or injured, that is illegal. I understand belugas are on the endangered list. So

00:28:58.220 is Marineland suggesting they're going to break the law?

00:29:02.460 So Marineland, as I stressed in prior conversations with you, is full of bluster. This is another one of

00:29:10.220 Andrew Burns' specialties. So I've just endured 13 years of litigation against them in trying to get a

00:29:16.220 walrus removed from Marineland. And it was much of the same. It's much of the same bluster. At the

00:29:21.660 end of the day, Marineland sits on 700 acres of prime real estate. There's tons of money here to

00:29:28.300 fuel the trust fund, which is going to go to the heirs. Marineland is simply very upset because it

00:29:34.540 was a lucrative deal to China. They wanted that money. They didn't get it. And so now because they

00:29:39.980 didn't get their way, they're stomping their feet. So this is just another one of Andrew Burns' means

00:29:45.260 of operation. It's how he's always operated. It's threats. It's bluster. It's building fences. It's

00:29:50.940 putting up fights. It's filing lawsuits. But it's rarely actually ever addressing the criticisms or the

00:29:56.620 or the issues at hand. And Phil, can you tell our audience briefly who is Andrew Burns? I understand

00:30:07.820 he's a lawyer that got involved with the estate of the original Marineland founders. But what is his

00:30:15.980 agenda? We have reached out to him, by the way, in our coverage. He doesn't return our calls or answer

00:30:21.500 our emails. So can you give our audience a little description of who Mr. Burns is?

00:30:29.580 Well, Burns, he came across my radar when I was sued by Marineland. My girlfriend was sued. A number

00:30:35.100 of us were sued. A number of whistleblowers, Marineland whistleblowers specifically, were sued.

00:30:39.900 And this is how we came to learn of Andrew Burns. So his job, he's known as what you call a cleaner.

00:30:45.820 So people with reputation and lots of money, when they engage in activities that seem to

00:30:52.860 that have the risk of tarnishing that public reputation, then Andrew Burns enters the

00:31:00.780 scene and he's a cleaner. He's there to get rid of your problems and sort of clean that up. And so he's

00:31:06.460 been brought up, he's been brought in as a cleaner for Marineland. And again, this started back in 2012.

00:31:12.300 And over the course of the 13 years, Marineland, of course, became defunct, you know, poor management

00:31:16.700 decisions, just general poor decisions as a whole, ignoring critics and suing them rather than actually

00:31:21.660 listening to what it is that we had to say. And now Andrew Burns' interest with the fact that the

00:31:27.660 owner's dead, the owner's wife died, the firstborn was dead, and now there's only

00:31:33.420 an adopted son and that son's daughters that remain as heirs. His job is to do what he can to,

00:31:42.220 you know, protect the trust while, I mean, I hate to say it, but evidently padding his own

00:31:49.100 pockets as well.

00:31:50.780 And really, Phil, is that what this is all about? It's about the almighty dollar, because to go to those

00:31:57.020 U.S. facilities to give the whales to them, that's what it means. They give the whales there. I

00:32:04.380 understand they don't buy whales. They don't have the resources to buy whales. I don't even know what

00:32:09.100 the going price of beluga whales are these days. And is there a reluctance by the likes of Mr. Burns

00:32:17.740 to simply give up these whales? Because I imagine there's some people that just look at them as

00:32:24.620 commodities, much like the land at Marineland, much like the thrill rides that they're now selling off.

00:32:31.420 That's right. They're an asset. They have value. But there's a risk to that asset,

00:32:37.100 being that if they aren't sold for top dollar, there's, you know, there's the risk of the costs

00:32:41.340 of keeping them. So that's what's going on here. This is a money issue. Again, Marineland has inordinate

00:32:46.540 amounts of values in the land that they sit on. Andrew Burns' role is to preserve that value.

00:32:52.140 And because this deal that would otherwise have been lucrative for Marineland fell through,

00:32:57.020 he's angry. He's angry. So he wants to, he wants to blame everyone but Marineland.

00:33:01.820 Unbelievable. And folks, I should tell you that my cameraman Lincoln Jay and I, we did go out to

00:33:06.700 Marineland to try to get answers. It looks like there's a gag order on their employees here. Check

00:33:14.940 it out. Do you work at Marineland? Okay. Is there anyone here that can talk to us, sir?

00:33:19.260 Nope. Nobody will talk to you. And what happened after our report aired? Well,

00:33:26.620 they erected a giant fence around the Marineland parking lot. So you could never get that close.

00:33:33.740 However, fences don't thwart drones. And we had drone photography of Phil, what I consider to be

00:33:43.420 squalid conditions. The water didn't look clean. The tanks are certainly too small, I think. And again,

00:33:50.940 I'm not a marine mammal expert, but they look too small to contain these whales. And you know,

00:33:57.740 the longer this goes on, I mean, when we first visited it, it was in July. Here we are in October.

00:34:02.940 I think these animals are suffering and it's just not right. If I'm to ask you to look into your

00:34:10.300 crystal ball, proverbially, what is going to happen to the belugas, the dolphins, the seals,

00:34:19.660 the bears, the elk, the deer, all these animals that still remain in this abandoned park?

00:34:27.660 My guess is the marine mammals will be spared. They will be sent and and shared amongst a number

00:34:34.700 of facilities around the world. That'll be that resolved. There's not going to be any euthanasia

00:34:38.940 as a cost savings measure of any healthy animals. That's a last, that's an absolute last resort and

00:34:45.580 only in the case of, of dire medical problems. So that's not happening. The dolphins certainly are

00:34:51.660 not, you don't hear Marineland talking about euthanizing the dolphins because the dolphins have

00:34:56.220 a far more popular brand of the public and there would be a far greater response than that of the

00:35:00.540 belugas. So they're very tactical in the way that they, in the way that they used sort of their, 0.83

00:35:06.140 their threats. But I can't vote that the, that the bears won't be euthanized. I certainly can't vote

00:35:11.340 that the deer won't be. I can't vote that the bison haven't already been because

00:35:15.500 they've disappeared and we can't get a sense exactly of where they've gone.

00:35:19.900 So the land animals are certainly, it's certainly in trouble, but why they're still there is a bit

00:35:23.900 of a mystery. If, uh, uh, you know, it's costing money to, to feed them as well. So, you know,

00:35:30.220 it's the whole of it is a bit of a mystery on exactly what's going on back there. And just to

00:35:34.860 the extent of what it is that their, their plans are with, with the array of animals they have.

00:35:39.340 But I do stress that when it comes to marine mammals, there's just too much demand.

00:35:42.940 And I think the fallout is such that anyone that has anything to do with

00:35:47.340 any harm to these animals and implicitly, if anyone does it, participates in the euthanasia,

00:35:53.180 that's a cloud that will follow every single individual veterinarian employee or anyone that

00:35:57.820 has any hand in doing that for the remainder of their lives. That's a solemn promise, not just

00:36:02.300 from myself, but from the inside of their own souls. So none of that's going to happen. I'm always trying

00:36:06.780 to rest people assured of that. Uh, don't buy the bluster, but you know, they are in an awful

00:36:12.780 predicament. And so what becomes is on everyone's mind. Uh, but we certainly hope that in the end,

00:36:17.740 it is in the interest of the animals. And Phil, you know, I, I discussed this with you

00:36:22.460 when I met you outside Marineland for our followup report, you know, I hadn't been to Marineland in

00:36:28.060 decades, but as a child, I remember going there was a rite of passage. If you're going to Niagara

00:36:33.260 Falls along with the cheesy haunted houses on Clifton Hill. And of course the magnificent falls

00:36:38.540 themselves. And, you know, it was a fun experience, but I guess, is there more of a realization that

00:36:48.060 this is really an act of cruelty to these majestic animals that despite those, uh, beautifully produced

00:36:56.060 ads, you know, that ran in the seventies, eighties, and nineties, that it really was not a good

00:37:02.380 experience for the animals. You trained whales there. Can you give us some insight into why

00:37:09.500 maybe this is just wrong, not just for Marineland, but for all the sea world like parks around the

00:37:17.100 world to continue to do this? Well, there was a time as you stated when there was the, uh, the,

00:37:24.540 the Marineland jingle and everyone's hearts and minds. Uh, you know, I heard it 14 times a day while

00:37:30.140 I worked there, but you know, most Ontarians sort of feel the same way when they turn on the TV.

00:37:35.660 Uh, but that industry controlled the message. You know, they told us why Marineland had to exist.

00:37:39.580 They told us all the positive effects on the animals. The animals look like they're smiling.

00:37:43.100 They look happy when they're jumping, et cetera. Well-produced commercial goes a long ways.

00:37:47.260 Uh, well-produced propaganda does.

00:37:49.260 It wasn't until, uh, the internet sort of made it to its way into the collective conscience. It

00:37:55.660 wasn't until, uh, cell phones had cameras that people were suddenly all journalists in a, in a way.

00:38:02.140 And, uh, you know, once you started putting drones up, especially in, and offering a vantage point

00:38:07.180 and sort of talking to whistleblowers, you know, people like myself, former trainers

00:38:10.860 in the documentary, black fish, it sort of sealed the fate of these, uh, of these facilities,

00:38:15.340 because we know now that they were operating entirely under a guise of education and it was

00:38:20.780 all lies and deceptions. The animals that we've come to learn in all of this do not thrive in

00:38:25.660 captivity. In fact, their lives are cut in half or less. We know that when you separate, uh, animals

00:38:30.220 from their natural environment, it compromises them when you take them away from their family.

00:38:34.700 And, you know, especially in the case of whales who are social animals that lived their entire

00:38:38.540 lifetime with their families. Uh, these are really, really, really damaging, uh, uh, practices that we've

00:38:44.300 engaged in, uh, the, the level of cruelty, I think it's still off the map, off the chart for our

00:38:50.300 actual understanding, but I think there'll come a day when we look back at this and we'll consider

00:38:54.380 ourselves quite brutal for the practice. How sad. And, you know, these are sentient,

00:38:59.580 intelligent animals. Uh, so it's heartbreaking to hear that. Phil, tell us about yourself. You were

00:39:06.540 a trainer of these whales in Marineland. What was it that made you go from a trainer at Marineland

00:39:14.940 to a whistleblower? So when I started, uh, to be fair, it wasn't really my objective to be an

00:39:21.660 animal trainer. It wasn't, uh, it wasn't high on my interest on the list of, of to-do lists in my life.

00:39:27.740 Uh, but I did have an attractive diploma in audio engineering and multimedia post-production,

00:39:33.340 and they have, as you know, uh, quite a production, including sound and lights,

00:39:37.420 et cetera. So, uh, I got my job sort of by accident. Uh, you know, I had a scuba license

00:39:42.540 at the time. So, you know, all of a sudden they saw me as someone that could, you know,

00:39:46.460 work with the animals, but also work with the sound, work with the, with the stage,

00:39:50.620 the show, uh, production, as well as, you know, do some of the daily grinds, such as, uh,

00:39:55.660 cleaning up, uh, the tanks, et cetera. So I went in there ignorant, not knowing what to expect.

00:40:01.020 I expected that a place like Marineland that is as celebrated as it was, uh, back in 2000,

00:40:06.220 when I started that the people that I would be working for knew what they were talking about.

00:40:10.540 I assumed I'd be going to a place that knew what they were doing. But frankly, what I found,

00:40:14.620 even especially on day one was everything was largely improvised. The facilities were awful.

00:40:19.900 The, the animals, I, I was, I was gutted on day one of what it actually was. Uh, but,

00:40:26.140 but I stressed that I'm a company guy. I admit a level of ignorance in that. I didn't exactly know

00:40:31.820 what I was doing there. Everyone else seemed to be jumping around with a certain step in their

00:40:35.580 certain, uh, you know, kick in their step. And, and so I just fell in line and did the, and, and,

00:40:40.700 just went for it, right. This is the job. This is what's expected. This is how it goes.

00:40:44.460 Over the course of my many years, you go from scrubbing buckets to, uh, getting a little closer

00:40:48.540 to the decision-making, you know, you beat you, you now close work closer to management, et cetera.

00:40:53.100 I started designing the shows for that matter, training the animals, training the trainers

00:40:56.780 to train the animals, training the trainers to perform in the shows, doing the soundtracks for

00:41:00.700 the shows. And eventually I was having to make decisions in the interest of the animals, be

00:41:04.300 their voice. And so start sitting in boardroom meetings, et cetera. And you're offering perspective

00:41:09.740 of what the animals need and everything's being shot down, et cetera, in the interest of profit or

00:41:14.540 whatever, you sort of get a better sense of the way things are. Well, well, in the year prior to my

00:41:20.140 quitting, we had a water disinfection unit break. It's a ozone generator. And so the chemical ozone

00:41:26.060 works in conjunction with chlorine. So it mitigates its use. So you don't have to use as much chlorine

00:41:31.260 if you're using a healthy combination of the two. Well, as you can attest, just as anyone else has ever

00:41:36.940 been in a hyperchlorinated pool, the effects of high chlorine are awful. Well, if you're a marine mammal,

00:41:42.700 it's significantly worse because there's no reprieve from that water whatsoever. So in 2011, we had a

00:41:48.140 breakdown of the water disinfection unit. The ozone generator broke. And because Marineland only

00:41:54.060 operated six months out of the year, we used to close during the winter, there was complacency

00:42:00.380 in actually fixing the issue. And the more we complained as trainers and maintenance employees and

00:42:06.300 veterinarians, the more defiant the owner became. Mornings, I would show up to work and I would be a

00:42:11.820 pungent smell of chlorine as if someone dumped a barrel the night before. And as soon as I saw

00:42:17.980 the animals, I knew that in fact, this was the case. You know, I witnessed animals whose eyes were

00:42:22.940 bleeding. I witnessed a male sea lion bark in such pain and his eyeball projected out of its eye socket

00:42:32.060 due to the wear of the damage that the chlorine. I watched dolphins skin slough off in chunks,

00:42:38.780 sea lions fur come off. Walruses, they had inflamed chemical burns. It was a real veritable nightmare

00:42:45.340 to work there. And it occurred to me that so long as I stay quiet or protect Marineland in that I'm not

00:42:52.380 getting anything done in house, I got to go fight outside these walls. And that's what was my inspiration

00:42:58.540 was I got to try to put a stop to the suffering. I quit. In the immediate response, Marineland

00:43:04.700 dumped the water. Finally, it took months for that to happen. It took me to quit my job for that to

00:43:08.380 happen. But to be fair, from that moment on, obviously, my relationship with Marineland was not

00:43:14.220 great. And my being a, you know, knowing the inside and out of that place, I kept a close eye on them.

00:43:22.140 And here we are 13 years later, you know, they sued me for millions of dollars for my advocacy.

00:43:26.540 Of course, they sued me for plotting to steal a walrus was there. That's right. And so,

00:43:33.500 you know, much of Marineland's bluster that they're existing in now, the whole like, hey,

00:43:37.020 we'll kill these whales if you don't give us money. I endured that for 13 years. But in the end,

00:43:41.340 Marineland was forced to move those walruses. And I suspect that at the end of all of this

00:43:46.940 blustery campaign of Marineland, they'll be forced to move their marine mammals as well.

00:43:51.020 Well, Phil, that's certainly heartbreaking information you're giving us regarding the

00:43:56.700 chlorine issues and the effect on the animals lives. And I think you've adroitly outlined

00:44:02.780 the whole issue of Marineland. We're just running out of racetrack. So one last question, I think it

00:44:08.860 might be the most important question. It's the chronology moving forward. These whales, as far as I

00:44:15.340 can tell from our own drone footage, it seems they spend the entire day just swimming in circles in

00:44:22.300 cramped containers, perhaps water that isn't as clean as it should be. If there is going to be a

00:44:33.260 transfer of these belugas to those US facilities, and there won't be a cash transaction, of course,

00:44:41.100 when will this be done? Because Marineland hasn't opened its doors since last summer, correct?

00:44:47.340 Again, there's a permitting process that requires, you know, some due diligence and approvals,

00:44:52.780 et cetera, at the federal level. There needs to be a lot of conversations with those facilities,

00:44:57.740 which I don't know that they're necessarily being engaged just yet. I know the government,

00:45:02.300 provincial and federal and Marineland all had to sit down a couple days ago to consider things.

00:45:07.260 I know that the heat's being turned down on the rhetoric, so you won't be hearing of any more of

00:45:11.660 these threats, that's for sure. But timeline wise, those animals are going to be there for a while

00:45:19.900 yet. Every scenario that exists in terms of a resolve for them still requires them to be in there for

00:45:27.900 longer than I'd certainly hope. But you know, the reality is, even if we were to even if we were to

00:45:34.540 jump on trying to find a resolve right now, there's going to be months into years that those animals

00:45:38.460 could very well still be there.

00:45:40.620 Unbelievable, Phil. And in the meantime, as you said, in the days, weeks, months ahead,

00:45:45.580 these animals continue to suffer in, well, inappropriate conditions. Let's leave it at that.

00:45:52.460 Phil, I want to thank you so much for making time with us. If you hear anything about any move

00:45:59.900 that Marineland is going to make, we'd love to hear from you. And I know you've paid a price. They've,

00:46:05.660 they've gone after you lawfare wise to try to sue you into silence, but you're not bending the knee.

00:46:13.340 Phil, I want to thank you once again. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

00:46:17.580 Thank you kindly. We'll talk again soon.

00:46:35.660 Thank you.

00:46:43.340 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - October 10, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Doug Ford's booze ban proves gov't monopolies never work

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