EZRA LEVANT ｜ Dr. James Lindsay on the Marxist push to make children queer
Summary
Dr. James Lindsay's new book, The Queering of the American Child, has very little to do with sexuality. It's about smashing old norms, but actually applies to everything: Queer math, queer history, queer science, queer culture, queer politics, and more.
Transcript
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Hello, my friends. This is an interview you're not going to want to miss. One of the smartest
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guys I know. Seriously, last time I talked to him, I had to Google a word he used, and
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that took me about an hour to understand it. Oh boy, he's smart and he sees things, and
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he gives a vocabulary to us to help us explain what's going on. I find him so helpful to
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understand the world. His name is Dr. James Lindsay. His new book is called The Queering
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of the American Child. And by the way, it has very little to do with sexuality. Queering
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can apply to anything. Queer math, queer history, queer science. I'll tell you all
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about it. We'll be talking to him for almost an hour. Let me invite you to get
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the video version. Go to rebelnewsplus.com. Click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month.
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Not only do you get the daily video from the show, but you get the satisfaction of
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knowing that you're keeping Rebel News strong. Because as you know, we don't
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take a dime from Trudeau, and it shows. All right, here's today's broadcast.
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Tonight, a terrifying new book about politics and your kids. It's called The Queering of
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the American Child. It's March 12th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
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I know you think I'm joking, but there's an idea out there of teaching queer math. I'm not joking.
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I thought it was a joke myself. How can math be queer? Doesn't queer mean gay? I mean,
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isn't two plus two, four no matter what? And yet, if you look, if you look just a little bit,
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you'll see that queering math is everywhere. And you'll find out that two plus two doesn't necessarily
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equal four. I've seen the most absurd explanations for this, like 2.4 plus 2.4. Well,
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the twos round down to a two, and the 2.4 plus 2.4, that's 4.8. That rounds up to a five. So you see,
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two plus two can equal five. I know that sounds crazy. That's queer math. And it's queer everything
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these days, and really it has very little to do with sexuality. There's a new book on the subject
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called The Queering of the American Child. And yes, there are some sexual parts to it, but it's about
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a total destruction of norms and a total attack on society. At least that's what I think.
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Here to join us for the course of the next half hour is the author of the book, The Queering of
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the American Child, our old friend, Dr. James Lindsay, who joins us now via Skype. Dr. James,
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great to see you again. Thanks for taking the time. Yeah, good to see you, Ezra.
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Have I properly, in that nutshell, explained what queer means in terms of Marxist theory and the deep
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state of academia? Have I properly said it basically means smashing old norms? That could be sexual norms,
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but actually applies to everything. Did I get it? Yeah, that's a very good summary. The definition
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of queer in queer theory, it doesn't mean gay, as it turns out. It comes from a book called Saint
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Foucault that was published by David Halpern in 1995. And David Halpern is very clear. The paragraph
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in which he defines queer, for the first time giving it its technical definition in the academic
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literature, starts with the words, unlike gay identity. He then argues that gay identity is
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rooted in a positive fact. What that means is a truth, something real. He then says that
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unlike gay identity, which is rooted in a positive fact, queer, he says, need not, and this is his own
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words, need not be rooted in any positive truth or any stable reality. There is nothing in particular
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to which it necessarily refers. So what does it mean? He says it's adopting a position, which means a
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political position. It doesn't mean who you are. It means how you act politically. Adopting a position
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vis-a-vis normalcy that intrinsically opposes whatever, in his own words, whatever is considered
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normal, legitimate, or dominant. So anything normal, anything legitimate, and of course this is a woke
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theory, so anything that they can tie to the word dominance has to be resisted on principle. Even if
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queer theory were to be normalized, it would have to resist itself on principle, as a matter of fact.
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You know, who would think up such a thing? I mean, basically what you're saying is,
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I guess like the phrase critical theory. We know what the word critical means, to critique something,
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to criticize it, to attack it. I guess this is just an extension of critical theory to queer theory.
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You're celebrating, well, again, abnormalcy, and we're not necessarily using the term sexuality,
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sexually. In statistics, you talk about the norm. And basically what queer theory is, if I'm getting
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you right, is it's whatever the establishment says, whatever is accepted, whatever is regarded by most
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people as good, attack it. And whatever is dissident and an outlier and is called deviant, support it.
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It's basically declaring every day opposite day. Is that, is that, I mean, help me out here,
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because I'm in a really spooky place. No, you're right. You're absolutely right. With one actual
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correction, I'm going to take you a little deeper. It's not just what everybody expects. It's not just
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the political norm, the social norm. That's what they would have you to believe. But even if it's
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normal, according to what we might refer to kind of an antiquated language as the laws of nature and
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nature's laws, the laws of nature themselves, that the overwhelming preponderance of a sexually
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reproducing species will want to engage in sexual reproductive activity, for example. In other words,
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most people are straight. I didn't say everybody's straight. I didn't add a judgment to this
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whatsoever. A bare fact that most people are straight, that has to be questioned at its fundamental
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reality, that in a sexually reproducing species that exhibits sexual dimorphism and sexual reproduction,
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that you will see that there are on average differences in how men and women behave, how men
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and women court one another, how they approach the entirety of the set of behaviors, which could go as
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far as homemaking, career, everything that lead into what creates a suitable partner for one another.
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All has to be resisted. There can be no natural explanation. There can be no scientific explanation.
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There can be no social expectation. All of that has to be rejected and resisted on principle.
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Anything that tells queer theory no has to be resisted on principle. So it has no limiting principles.
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It has no finish line. It has no stopping place. All it can do is critique and destroy relentlessly,
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because it's a Marxist theory that doesn't hold up economic capital specifically as the bourgeois
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property that must be abolished and transcended. It holds up the idea that some people get to consider
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themselves within the range of normal, and other people fall outside of that range, say if they have
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a mental illness or if they have some proclivity, particularly a sexual proclivity, but not always,
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that's outside of the range of normal. For example, bringing fetish into public at a pride parade in
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front of children is not widely considered normal. But for them, that expectation has to be challenged.
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I guess, I mean, what you're saying there, there's certain natural laws. Queer theory would say
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challenge those. I guess that gets back to math. I mean, there's nothing more impervious to opinion
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than math. You can be black, you can be white, you can be smart, you can be dumb, you can be whatever.
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Math is math. It's not going to change. And that's one of the reasons it's such a meritocracy,
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is you can't have a little footnote saying, but I tried. But queer math is that. Queer math says,
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no, two plus two doesn't necessarily have to be four. And they're taking that to the hard sciences now,
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too, aren't they? Yeah. So let me remind you, where Halperin said, it's not rooted in any positive
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fact or any stable reality. There's nothing in particular to which it must refer. When it comes
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to the question of two plus two, two plus two necessarily must equal four. There is no ambiguity
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on this. There is no getting around this. If we go into what the words two and plus and equals and four
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mean, this is an absolutely unavoidable conclusion. There's no wiggle room. There's no argument.
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There's no debate. However, what they would say is, there's nothing in particular to which two
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point or two plus two refers. It doesn't necessarily refer to four. And then they pull all sorts of
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different tricks. Maybe you do it in base three arithmetic, in which case the symbol for four in
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base three is written with two ones. It looks like what we would call 11. As it turns out, that's still
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four, even though it's written down differently. But they want to tell you that it looks like 11,
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therefore it is 11, but even though it's 11 identifying as four. And you can't question
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that fact. All you can say is that it's too narrow and reductive a way of thinking. It's a
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constraining and oppressive way to think that two plus two must equal four. They don't say that it
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must equal three or must equal five or must equal 17 or 11. They say that two plus two can equal,
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in effect, other things. And who knows what those are? And in fact, they frequently say it that way,
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that what the queer world looks like is out beyond a horizon of possibilities. They don't try to tell
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you what it looks like. It's just a potentiality out there past the horizon. That's literally the
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way they describe this. Almost like it's a religion with the kingdom of queer God off over the horizon
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that we can get to eventually if we abolish all of our norms and expectations.
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It's so weird. Like it's such a, you know, that old phrase, how many angels dance on the head of a
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pin? The phrase there is, why are you spending so much time about an obscure irrelevancy? But here,
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it's worse than that. I mean, you could have a debate about how many angels can dance on the head
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of a pin because you want to know the answer. But there's no answer here. There's just questioning
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and destroying and critiquing and undermining. And it's so luxurious in a way. Like it's got
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nothing to do with feeding people, healing people, helping people with prosperity, with raising people
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up. And even other isms couldn't say, well, we're trying to increase the prosperity of the working
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class. We're trying to raise up minorities. There was a goal for some of these other isms. But this
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just seems a kind of nihilism, a kind of corrosive termite that just eats at anything. And as you
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said, it could eat at itself too. Well, this is what I think we spend a lot of time talking about
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how it goes after normalcy. And I think that's very important, obviously, for every reason that
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immediately comes to mind. But I think it's actually more important that it says that it is intrinsically
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designed to be, it is intrinsically whatever as opposed to legitimacy as well. The idea that we
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will consider not just certain modes of behavior, but certain ways of doing mathematics, or certain
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ways of doing science, or certain ways of organizing society, that we would consider those legitimate
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is automatically called into question. And that's overwhelmingly destructive. And what it actually
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is, what this boils down to is the ability to set up a cult. The people who are priests in the
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cult, the people who are higher up, who have understood and taken this on and figured out how
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to ruin people's lives if they don't agree, more or less, that's how it actually works. The people
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who have gone higher in the cult get to decide what is and is not true, what is and is not legitimate
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on a case by case basis. So you always have to defer to them so they get all the power. That was kind
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of epitomized when Marsha Blackburn, the senator from Tennessee where I live, questioned Kintaji Brown
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Jackson in her Supreme Court hearing and the Senate and said, what is a woman? And everybody laughed
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because Kintaji Brown Jackson, who is a woman said, I don't know. I am not a biologist. But what she
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actually said there is that I'm not an expert. I have to find somebody to whom I can defer, who has
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this magical rainbow glasses that they can put on. And that person can tell me whether I qualify
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legitimately as a woman or not. And it's destructive as anything when we're talking about adults. But
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imagine doing this to a five-year-old who hasn't developed the prefrontal cortex necessary to
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distinguish fantasy and reality. Can you provide a definition for the word
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woman? Can I provide a definition? Yeah. I can't. You can't? Not in this context. I'm not
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a biologist. You know, that reminds me, I mean, I think sometimes, but what is it about transgender
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athletes in particular who don't just want to compete against women, but who want to go into
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the changing room? Forget about the unfairness, the unsportsmanlike conduct of a biological man
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competing against biological women in sports that were strength and muscle density and size and weight
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make a difference. It's unfair. But there's always that added flourish of, I want to change in the
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same change room as you. I want to invade those places. Part of it is, I think, a sexual fetish that
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they want to be confirmed. Only a woman would be allowed in the change room with the other women. So
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this proves I'm a woman in my mind. But I think, so I think there's a sexual or a psychological
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selfishness there. But I think it's also to destroy natural instincts of people, stranger danger.
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There's a man in the women's room. Be careful. Who is that marauder? It's to, it's to beat down our
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natural instinctive caution about strangers. It's to destroy what our parents teach us about
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predators. I think, I think the legitimacy that's being destroyed by transgender athletes
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is the legitimacy of being afraid or being private about your private life. What do you think of that?
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I agree completely, as a matter of fact. So over the weekend, as it turns out, since you bring this
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up, I was with Riley Gaines over the weekend. And she challenged me to a swimming race in the
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Pacific Ocean. And it's just for a viewer, she's an American athlete who spoke out against men
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competing against her. I think it might have been. Okay, yeah, I'll give a little more color to who
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Riley is, because it matters for why I ended up not swimming against her. Riley actually swam against
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the transgender athlete named William Thomas, who goes by Leah Thomas, who appeared in his senior
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year suddenly at the University of Pennsylvania after having been, you know, relatively poorly
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ranked in the men's swimming and appeared on the women's as the number one swimmer in America.
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And Riley went to the national finals, the national championship, to swim for a national title.
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And it was in the final race against so-called Leah Thomas. And Thomas and Riley Gaines tied.
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So she actually tied this six foot four, as she phrases it, fully intact male in the finals.
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But they gave the trophy to Leah and made Leah the center of attention instead of letting Riley have
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it specifically because of the transgender. And the reason I bring it up isn't because I was able to
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dodge the humiliation ritual of swimming against America's fastest swimmer in the ocean, which would
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have been really, I don't think I could have run on the beach as fast as she could swim, to be honest
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with you. But at any rate, I sort of wish I had done it now, but I missed the swimming opportunity.
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But the fact of the matter is that the only part of the story, I've heard her story personally,
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I've heard it when she gives it on stage a few times, I've heard it in interviews, and she tells
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the story very consistently. The only part of the story that she ever talks about feeling the
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vulnerability, the invasion, the having to, like you said, override natural instinct was when it was
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this Thomas character in the changing room with them, six foot four, fully intact male,
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wearing no clothing, inches away from these women. And that's where she starts talking in terms of
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vulnerability. Where are our dads? Where are our coaches coming in to rip this character out of this
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place? And I think you were right, that part of the forcing to accept this is to override those
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natural instincts of this is dangerous. I'm in a dangerous situation, something bad could happen
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that otherwise would not be able to happen very easily. And to you teach yourself to override those
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instincts in order to be inclusive. But in what you're actually doing is teaching yourself to open
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up circumstances, not necessarily with Thomas, but in many cases, to where, again, I go back to
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children, where children are learning to override their this feels wrong, something might not be
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right. And when you have this fact of the matter that schools, even before all of this, are a
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overwhelmingly frequent site of sexual predation on children, this just completely eliminates any of
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the natural filtering mechanisms that might have helped stop that problem. In addition to whatever
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else it invites by, say, intentionally hiring people who probably would not have been easily hired
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anyway. It overrides every preventative mechanism, every limiting principle, and it teaches people to
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override them in themselves, which leads them into harm's way.
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Yeah. I mean, the most astonishing thing, our reporter, David Menzies, you probably,
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if you don't know him by name, you would recognize me. Where's that fedora? And he's out there
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at swim meets or at rugby games. He's really one of the only journalists in Canada, if not the world,
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who covers that beat. And the number one thing he reports on TV, and when I talk to him privately
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about it, is how astonished he is at the silence of the mums and dads. And it's not just the kids who
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are being taught shut up. It's the mums and dads. Because the threat is usually, if you speak up,
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you are a harasser. You are intolerant. We will punish you and your daughter. And what,
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your daughter's been practicing swimming, wants to make the national team, has been doing this for
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10 years, can taste the Olympic team. We're going to destroy her entire dream, wreck her entire social
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life if she doesn't obey. And you bloody well better obey too, dad. You better shut up. In fact,
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not just shut up. I'm taking notes on who's clapping. You better clap. You better cheer.
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And we know this. We have a friend in Canada, April Hutchinson, who dared to speak out. She's a
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female power lifter. She spoke out against a man. She was suspended from her team. This was her life's
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goal. So there's, the fear is not just being targeted at the children. It's being targeted at
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their protectors too. It's terrifying. Hey, let me bring this subject back a little bit.
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I mean, there there's sexuality involved, but as, as you've affirmed to us today, queering means
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destroying the legitimacy of anything. And you used a word in a speech I heard you give in Calgary,
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and then I've seen you use the word. I didn't understand it. So I Googled it and I love learning
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new words. And I feel like, you know, I feel like I have a lot of words, but I'd never heard this word
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before. You use the word Lysenkoism. And I Googled it and it's named after a man, Lysenko. He was a
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Soviet communist in Russia. And I want to see if I understand it. Maybe you can explain it. You,
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you talked about Lysenkoism. Is Lysenkoism, and it was the man, I forget his first name, Lysenko.
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Did he actually try to queer science? And to say, I deny the science of agricultural genetics.
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I have a Marxist explanation and we have to actually silence the actual empirical scientists
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instead. Help me understand what's Lysenkoism. Is it part of queer theory? Did I understand it
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correctly? I just started reading about Lysenkoism and Lamarckism and genetics. And I thought,
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what am I doing? Let me ask Dr. James Lindsay, what's Lysenkoism and how does it apply to our
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lives? Well, I appreciate you setting me up to tell you, in, you know, paraphrase of one of the
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greatest of all time, that I have the best words. That is true. I have absolutely the best words.
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But Lysenkoism is an important word. The first name you're looking for is Trophim. Trophim Lysenko
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was the Soviet agriculturalist name. And in the modern, in the, in the technical definition of
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the word queering, he would not have recognized the word queering. The Soviet Union was not
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particularly nice to gay people, but in the, in the, what the word means to override legitimacy in
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favor of ideology. Certainly he was queering agricultural science and what he believed was
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absolutely insane. He believed that if you applied communist theory to plants, that they would grow
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better. And, but you might have to actually teach the plants or lecture to the seeds. So you have
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people reading Soviet literature to, or Marxist, Marxist theory to seeds before they plant them.
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And that they would plant them in high density areas, not within inadequate water, within adequate
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fertilizer and soil conditions, thinking that they would communally help one another and grow better.
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And in fact, that the oats could become barley under the right conditions because he rejected
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Western so-called bourgeois genetics, which turned out to be correct. And he came up with a different
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kind because we couldn't have what the West uses. And he applied this science and more importantly,
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Stalin behind him put the full weight of the Soviet state behind this bogus approach to science.
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And the result was exactly what you would predict, famines, massive famines. Trophim Lysenko was famous
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for having remarked that, uh, given enough time, you could convince the oranges to grow in Siberia.
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And so, uh, he thought that you could override nature completely in terms of the vision of the
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ideological structure of, of Soviet communism. In this case, it's a different theory that we can
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override nature and biology completely by applying queer theory to developmental psychology, to chemistry,
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to whatever else. So it's the same model. And what we see happening in medicine, very widely
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supporting these, um, transgender medicine policies and so on really boils down to a medical
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Lysenkoism that uses queer theory. Uh, it's not agricultural Lysenkoism, but the result will be
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the same. If you apply a bogus theory to a science that has to do with living and dying, many people
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are going to die. So we'll, we, we can expect, we can predict, we don't have to guess. There will be
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millions of people who are psychologically or physically injured. It's called iatrogenic harm
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psychologically or physically mutilated, uh, through surgeries and through chemical, uh, manipulations.
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We can predict that this will happen with 100% certainty because this is what happens when
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the state begins to enforce a ideology that rejects legitimacy, that rejects, uh, reality,
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that rejects positive facts and stable truth, uh, in favor of whatever this belief system happens to
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be. You know, I think there was some agricultural Lysenkoism at play in Sri Lanka recently when they
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decided to reject almost a century's worth of knowledge about fertilizer and modern agriculture,
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the green revolution that Norman Borlaug helped, uh, birth and no, no, let's go.
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The word they use is sustainability. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Sustainability is the word that they're
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using for agricultural and, and energy production, Lysenkoism today. And, and it had devastating
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effects in Sri Lanka. They're trying to do it in the Netherlands. They're talking about doing it in
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Canada too. That's Lysenkoism. That's ideology overcoming scientific biology. That's telling farmers,
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we have better ideas than you. We've never set foot on a farm. Our hands are smooth. Um, we think food
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comes from a grocery store, but we are going to instruct you farmers on the better way to farm.
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That's ideologically superior. They are saying almost exactly those words right now. I, you know,
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I remember here's a clip of the former environment minister, Catherine McKenna, lecturing farmers about
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just farming better here. Take a look at this blast from the past. Thank God she's not in the cabinet
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anymore, but now she works for the UN. Take a look. It's basically her saying farmers ought to
00:25:04.540
learn some better systems. And I've seen amazing innovations in farming. For example,
00:25:10.220
zero till agriculture, um, using less water, using smart technologies, artificial intelligence to,
00:25:17.860
you know, figure out how you can use less fertilizer, how you can, you know, do a better job tilling,
00:25:23.320
how you can get better results. We can all do this, but if we don't, the impact will be dire on farms.
00:25:31.020
That is a 21st century Lysenkoist telling farmers how to farm better. We're going to all starve if this
00:25:39.360
actually happens. We're going to have plane crashes if they replace, you know, heteronormative
00:25:44.860
cisgender engineering with queer engineering. We're going to, we're going to have a lot of people
00:25:50.340
dying, uh, if, if we allow the queering of science, uh, on the things that, that we depend on for our
00:25:57.880
lives. This is, this is textbook Lysenkoism. You're absolutely right. The consequences are,
00:26:03.480
you're absolutely right. Why Stalin backed Lysenko was because he was giving a refutation
00:26:08.600
of so-called Western bourgeois agriculture and biology in favor of a Soviet one. So if Lysenko
00:26:15.240
was proved right, two things would happen. First, the Soviet union would become the most productive
00:26:20.960
nation on earth, and it will have done so by validating Marxist theory. And so because of
00:26:27.240
the structure of the Soviet regime, which was completely ideologically captured, Lysenko had
00:26:32.680
to be right. In other words, he had to be forced to be made right. So all the scientists who disagreed,
00:26:37.680
they took away these, their medical licenses. Oh, I'm sorry. Wait, that's COVID. Um, I mixed up my,
00:26:42.860
my errors. All the scientists who disagreed actually got sent to reeducation in the gulag,
00:26:47.800
which is roughly the equivalent. They were chased out of their universities. They were chased out of
00:26:51.360
their laboratories, or they were killed outright murdered for disagreeing with Lysenko and his
00:26:56.220
ideas. And they were completely purged. This actually caused a secondary problem in Soviet union,
00:27:02.500
which was that they had a massive brain drain. Uh, and so later when things got a little
00:27:07.360
further on in the world war two rolled around and they suddenly needed rocket scientists,
00:27:12.420
quite literally, they needed physics. They needed rocket science. They needed, uh, munitions and,
00:27:17.320
and, and rations for their troops. They had a major problem on their hands because they didn't have
00:27:22.520
the, they didn't have the stock. They didn't have science, scientists, scientists, and new science
00:27:27.320
anymore. And they had to start building that from the ground up. And they lost a lot of that. And it took
00:27:31.580
them a very long time. It may very, very well be that part of the reason that they ultimately lost the
00:27:36.200
Cold War, at least in the explicit sense, was because of this huge brain drain that it caused
00:27:41.000
them, uh, in the 1930s, primarily through the Lysenkoist experiment.
00:27:48.300
if we give communist ideas to, to seeds, they'll grow better. It, it's so absurd, but I know it
00:27:57.660
happened. And I know that's what Catherine McKenna wants farmers to do. It's the same thing.
00:28:00.940
So I know it's real. You must think of yourself as semi-divine that you can say something and the
00:28:08.320
laws of nature will change to it. It's like the, the, the, the legend of King Canute whose advisors
00:28:15.120
were such flatterers. And King Canute was actually the hero of the story. He said he commanded the
00:28:20.460
tides not to come in and he was doing this to show his advisors not to be so, uh, obsequious to
00:28:26.860
him. He, he showed that he couldn't stop the tides, but whether you're a Stalinist agricultural
00:28:34.080
communist or a sustainable development communist, these people, I don't know. I mean, do they actually
00:28:41.780
want to change the world? Do they, do they just like being the emperor who can speak things into
00:28:46.960
existence like some sort of a God? Like what would motivate people to believe that they can alter the
00:28:54.460
will, alter the arc of the universe, alter the, the facts of time and space and physics just by
00:29:01.780
uttering a word? I, I mean, it's one thing to be arrogant, but that is, that sounds like a mental
00:29:09.260
illness. Yeah. I think that that's the primary motivation. In fact, their literature reflects this,
00:29:15.160
um, the critical pedagogue, uh, Paulo Freire, who is a Brazilian Marxist who organized a system of
00:29:21.500
education we use throughout the West called critical pedagogy to this day, um, actually said
00:29:26.780
that his purpose for educating that way was to teach people to learn, to speak the word, to speak
00:29:32.560
the world. So he, I think this literally is very much so one of their motivations. But if we look at
00:29:38.280
the communist or the Marxist ideology, this is all consistent with that. You have to fully understand
00:29:43.480
it. While some of the people may be doing this cynically or through incredibly, uh, arrogant or
00:29:49.500
hubristic, you know, megalomaniacal, uh, beliefs, the vast majority have been convinced that Marxism
00:29:56.500
is the true science of the world. So the seeds speaking, speaking communist theory to a seed
00:30:01.980
sounds stupid to people who are outside of that. But if you've been brainwashed into this cult,
00:30:07.180
you don't believe that you're teaching the seed communism. You believe that the seed already knows
00:30:12.220
communism and has to be awakened to it, that it's the fundamental truth of reality. And so you're just
00:30:17.140
doing that. And we're saying with people or children, and there are actually queer activists
00:30:20.660
out there. Lindsay Mayer is one name, uh, on Twitter who explicitly said, and this is in their
00:30:25.540
academic literature as well, though, that explicitly said all children, all children, therefore all
00:30:31.200
people are intrinsically queer. Most just don't know it. So with queer theory, the goal is actually
00:30:36.640
awaken you to your true nature, which suggests that this is very much akin. And this is how we
00:30:42.300
structured the book very much akin to a religious cult, uh, where there's a true nature of humanity
00:30:48.120
that's been hidden from human beings by whatever, whether it's an evil demon or a trickster God or
00:30:53.740
whatever on the one hand, or maybe it's by the bourgeois elements of society or the people who
00:30:58.400
declare themselves to be normal to exclude other people in this case, that there is this order to
00:31:04.880
reality that only the secret elect people that have taken the study know what it is. And everybody
00:31:11.900
else lives in a false delusional consciousness. So they think they know the real true nature of
00:31:17.160
reality. So they're not speaking over reality. They actually think that reality itself is an
00:31:22.920
illusion. Reality itself is a distorting lie to prevent them from being who they really are.
00:31:28.960
You know, I first heard that idea about, um, class consciousness that the Marxists would say to
00:31:35.440
working class people who like going to the factory and then saving some money and buying a house and
00:31:40.700
maybe buying a boat and maybe having a nice lifestyle. The Marxists would say that's false
00:31:46.240
consciousness. You're not a winner in society. You're, you should be a radical revolutionary
00:31:51.560
proletariat. Come on, wake up. You've got nothing to lose but your chains. So I think economic
00:31:57.900
Marxism tried to say to people, you should be mad. You should be against the status quo. Don't you know?
00:32:04.740
And it sounds like that false consciousness attempt to radicalize workers is now radicalize everyone
00:32:11.460
against everything to basically be, well, I mean, what's, what's, how did Hobbes describe the world
00:32:21.300
before there was order? Um, a war of all against all where life was nasty, brutish, and short. You know,
00:32:29.920
I mean, when we're all the time fighting against every norm, every political norm, social norm,
00:32:35.600
cultural norm, sexual norm, and even scientific norm, like it's basically a call for everyone to
00:32:41.760
be in a revolution against everything and everyone. It, I mean, I, I'm not particularly religious,
00:32:47.920
but what is that other than the, with the Greek God for chaos or Satan himself, defy everything,
00:32:56.520
challenge everything, tear down everything. It, it, we're really touching on, on religious ideas
00:33:02.200
here. Um, destroy everything, upend everything, the opposite of everything, anti-Christian. The,
00:33:08.360
what's the queer response to Christ, anti-Christ. I'm going into areas where I don't have a lot of
00:33:14.200
intellectual strength, but that's what it seems like to me. Well, so here's the thing. You're,
00:33:19.160
you are absolutely right. What I described in, without saying the magic word with the secret knowledge
00:33:23.880
and the true nature of reality before is the old religious cult that is identified frequently with
00:33:29.080
satanic distortion. That's called Gnosticism. And, uh, the, the secret Gnostics are the ones who know
00:33:34.680
all of the secret knowledge of the world. I've actually just left the word out. So as I didn't
00:33:38.680
distract from the fact, but we are dealing with religious ideas. When you brought up the idea of
00:33:42.840
the class consciousness with the, with the Soviets or with the, with the Marxists that, you know,
00:33:47.960
and the class should be awakened to who they really are, that they have nothing to lose,
00:33:51.080
but they're chains that they're not winners in society and they should be mad. They should be
00:33:54.360
mad as a class. What, what we have there is a, like literally class consciousness. It is a group
00:34:00.520
that's being unfairly treated. So what the weakness of that is compared to what we're dealing with now,
00:34:06.200
uh, is that you have to think, well, even if I'm doing pretty good, somehow I'm being cheated. My,
00:34:11.560
I'm doing good. Even if the group I'm in, isn't so yeah, I'm a traitor to my group, blah, blah, blah.
00:34:15.800
What you have now that you have that mentality, but the, Oh, with the identity politics and
00:34:20.520
especially with the sexual identity politics, which is so subjective and so individual,
00:34:25.320
it's all focused on each person. It's individuals are the ones who are actually, uh, rebelling against
00:34:32.040
the entire system. So it feels much more quite literally Satan was an individual cloaking himself
00:34:37.240
as an angel of light who would liberate humanity from God's order. And this is quite literally what
00:34:43.400
we're dealing with. The individuals themselves are at war with everything. But again, in the name
00:34:48.040
of a class identity, the poor LGB kids or whatever are not being recognized in society. The poor trans
00:34:54.200
people have it really hard. So we're doing it in somebody else's name. That's we're cloaked in a,
00:34:59.720
as an angel of light. But in fact, it's all narcissistic. It's all about me, me, me. Here's my
00:35:05.880
pronouns here. I get to reorder pronouns for myself. Some of them are made up words nobody's ever heard
00:35:11.560
of and can't remember or ever use. And, but you better, or else we're going to reorder,
00:35:15.240
organize society and you're going to be in the gulag or you're going to be lose your job or whatever
00:35:19.640
it is. Uh, we're not just going to have that, but here's my sexuality. Here's my romantic
00:35:23.720
orientation. And here's a 10 paragraph word and nobody knows what it is that describes who I really
00:35:29.000
am. And I have a flag. It's me, me, me, me, me. It's so overwhelmingly narcissistic. And it turns,
00:35:37.880
as you said, all against all, and the, the life that you live in this situation is in fact nasty,
00:35:44.040
brutish, and short. Uh, the West figured out that Hobbes doesn't have to be right,
00:35:49.000
but this actually throws us into the condition that Hobbes was outlining. And, and it is a very
00:35:54.680
fundamentally religious architecture where the deity, the thing that's actually being worshiped at the
00:36:00.920
end of the day is the self as the perfect avatar of a class, uh, of other people that you think that you,
00:36:07.480
you get to believe that you're helping. You know, they say nature abhors a vacuum.
00:36:13.160
And if there's no religion, um, people will create one. And if there's no God,
00:36:18.760
people will appoint themselves God, I suppose. Um, it's, uh, it's terrifying. The book we're
00:36:26.440
talking about just, uh, if you're only joining us now, the book is called The Queering of the American
00:36:30.680
Child. The author is Dr. James Lindsay, who we've had on the show before.
00:36:34.840
The idea of speaking absurd things into the world and making them come true. By the way, that's a,
00:36:41.880
that's a biblical Jewish concept that when God would say a word by saying the word, it would come to
00:36:50.600
life. And, and that's why there's some obscure Jewish approach of looking deeply into the meaning
00:36:56.520
of the word. Like the word Adam, A-D-A-M comes from Adamah, the earth. And like you can, you can look
00:37:04.520
too deeply into words if you believe that, but there's only one person who could make things come
00:37:09.640
alive by saying the word and that's God. But imagine speaking things and expecting them to come
00:37:15.000
to life. But there is one group and I'd like you to respond to this. There is one group to whom you could
00:37:21.240
say absurd, insane things, and it will come to life. And I think this goes to your book.
00:37:29.560
The book is called The Queering of the American Child. And when you have unformed people who are
00:37:35.480
still learning and still trusting of authority, and they are told by teachers, by guidance counselors,
00:37:43.320
by doctors who have an agenda, that no, you're not just a tomboy. You're actually a man trapped
00:37:50.040
in a girl's body. No, you're not just, you know, going through puberty and have a lot of hormones
00:37:55.240
and emotions. You are actually in the wrong body. And we have to fix that with extreme surgery
00:38:02.840
and puberty blockers. And we're going to speak into existence. You're a boy, you're a girl,
00:38:08.920
we're going to absolutely change the most fundamental nature of you. I think the most successful place
00:38:16.760
where a kind of human biological Lysenkoism is happening is to children. We saw, it was actually
00:38:23.560
an incredible story in Quebec, the Canadian state broadcaster called the CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting
00:38:30.840
Corporation. It has a French counterpart in Quebec called Radio Canada. It's the same corporation,
00:38:37.080
it's just in Francais. They sent someone in sort of like a, like a teen, an undercover
00:38:44.200
person to one of these clinics. And in 10 minutes, they were getting directions from the doctor
00:38:50.840
to go on puberty blockers. It's in 10 minutes. So I guess the one place where you can speak insane
00:38:58.680
things into action, not talking to seeds, not talking to math, but talking to children
00:39:04.760
without their parents there, you can indeed change lead into gold and change men into women and women
00:39:14.200
into men. They're going, go ahead. I was going to say that's the goal, but I want to hear your last
00:39:19.880
thought there. No, I was going to say that, that is, I think the, the reason why they're, they're
00:39:25.000
targeting children is because that's the one place where you can say up is down, down is up.
00:39:29.320
Male is female, female is male. And you might actually get the kids to believe it because
00:39:34.680
that's the thing about kids. That's why we say taking candy from a baby. They're impressionable
00:39:38.680
and the mama bears aren't there to protect them. That's exactly right. That is exactly what one of
00:39:44.760
the primary reasons they target children. And then the other, of course, is that the children
00:39:48.520
will then go home and become disruptive agents in places that they can't easily reach,
00:39:53.560
like private homes, like in churches and faith groups. So the children will come and you don't
00:39:58.440
understand me anymore. And it becomes a point of drama and the state's taking the child's side
00:40:02.520
and has primed the pump by saying we're trusted adults and your parents might not affirm you and
00:40:07.000
might not love you. Right. But we can be your mom. Now free mom hugs is a hashtag that these very
00:40:12.920
creepy people are saying, if your mom won't affirm you, I'll give you free mom hugs, even though I'm not
00:40:17.560
your literal mother. And they described this in their literature as being part of a quote, queer
00:40:22.520
family. And so they are trying to bring children into a new family that constantly affirms them.
00:40:28.360
Because at the heart of this crazy religion that we're actually describing this cult with the
00:40:32.200
speaking things into truth, they don't understand truth. They fundamentally, truth is not one of their
00:40:38.120
values. For them, that which everybody assents to is true. So everything at two plus two equals four,
00:40:45.320
that if you drop something off the roof, it'll fall due to the force of gravity and accelerate at
00:40:49.640
negative 9.8 meters per second squared. These are not facts about reality. These are things that
00:40:55.800
people have been made to assent to and believe. So if you can get the environment to assent and
00:41:01.640
affirm and believe something, it is for all intents and purposes true. And this is genuinely how they
00:41:07.640
think about the world. Well, children are a very captive and primed audience to accept outlandish things.
00:41:14.200
If you can get the adults around them to pretend and play, or adults are very, it turns out very
00:41:20.120
receptive things. If you can create the conditions around them to be very coercive, their social
00:41:24.440
circle, their professional lives, perhaps their real, their lives themselves, not just their livelihoods
00:41:29.080
and lifestyles, but their physical life. If you can put those at risk, you can get people for decades
00:41:35.000
on end to assent to absolute absurdities. And Marxists, we're theorists, you know, as one in the
00:41:42.280
same in kind of spirit, fully believe that that which people will assent to is true. So again, just to
00:41:51.800
draw the satanic, and you know, I'm not religious either. So just to draw the satanic imagery again,
00:41:58.920
what does Satan mean in the Hebrew? Well, it's prosecutor. So he deceives, and then he accuses.
00:42:06.120
So he says, boys can be girls, and if you don't agree, you're a transphobe, and you might lose your
00:42:12.440
livelihood. That is the motif behind this entire program. The accusation causes people to assent to a lie,
00:42:22.040
Satan being alleged to be the father of lies, causes people to assent to a lie, and once you
00:42:27.720
assent to the lie, you've given away part of your soul to that system, and you can no longer be
00:42:33.400
righteous, or live an upright life, or pass through the straight and narrow, as Jesus commands in the
00:42:38.760
gospel. And it's because of this belief that whatever is assented to is real, that they act this way, because
00:42:46.040
they can force, or coerce, or trick, or with children especially, just in a kind of pied piper
00:42:51.800
sort of way, lead them into believing and assenting. And of course, reality at the end of the day is
00:42:59.320
real, and reality at the end of the day doesn't care, because reality is a thing you run into when
00:43:03.560
your beliefs are false. But their game is to make this run as long as they can until that all happens,
00:43:10.200
and when it collapses, to blame those awful transphobes who didn't let us do it right,
00:43:14.520
because it would have worked if they did. You know, there's the near past, and then there's
00:43:20.920
prehistoric past, and then there's things that are in our histories that don't seem right. They seem
00:43:27.160
like they're exaggerations or legends. Whether we're talking about the golden calf, did they really make
00:43:33.640
a golden calf? What exactly were they doing when they were dancing around it? You know, what's the
00:43:39.960
truth behind that? Is it a legend? Is it a myth? Is it an allegory? Is it an exaggeration?
00:43:44.440
What do they actually do then? And so many things that were lost in the sands of time, so many
00:43:51.240
cultures and civilizations about which we heard things, but just little wisps here and there.
00:43:58.680
One of my favorite movies is Mel Gibson's Apocalypto, which gives you a flavor of what
00:44:04.360
Central America was like before Columbus came, the human sacrifice. What I'm getting at here is there are
00:44:11.400
certain things, it's a kind of deep madness, an evil so deep that we would probably lack the
00:44:19.080
language for it today. And when we see traces of it in Bible or in ancient codifications, we assume it's
00:44:28.200
an exaggeration. But I think that is actually the ooze from which we pulled ourselves. Not just
00:44:36.920
evolutionary ooze, but over 50,000 years of human civilization, if that's how long it's been.
00:44:44.680
You can imagine how long it went wrong and how hard it was to make it right. And I feel that we're
00:44:50.280
undoing ancient taboos and we're rediscovering ancient evils. Horrors that have not been seen
00:45:01.000
in thousands of years, I think, are being unlocked. And I'm not trying to be spooky, and I'm not trying
00:45:06.440
to be mysterious. I'm just saying, I see flashes in it that in life these days, whether it's, you know,
00:45:19.000
Transgender Library Day or whatever those are called. Like the absolutely insane, and I'm going to say
00:45:25.400
the word satanic accoutrements and costumes, teaching young children. And with no intermediary there,
00:45:34.200
you've got these absurd, often dressed sort of like a ram's head kind of over the top wig,
00:45:39.880
and the children and being given access to it. And I think this feels biblical. This feels like a story
00:45:47.800
that we were told that was supposed to scare us. And we always thought, oh, Pasha, come on. It wasn't
00:45:52.440
like that. You know, like Sodom and Gomorrah and turning back. No, no, no. That's an allegory. That's
00:45:59.160
that's a warning. That's a, that's a problem. That's like an Aesop's fable. But I feel like we're,
00:46:04.840
we have glimmers of things that haven't been seen in thousands of years. I don't know. It makes me
00:46:10.600
think of W.B. Yeats poem, The Second Coming, and what rough beast, you know, its hour come round at
00:46:18.840
last slouches towards Bethlehem to be born, if I'm remembering it right. I feel like we are opening up
00:46:26.280
a box that has been closed for thousands of years. And it is terrifying to me. Last word to you,
00:46:32.680
Dr. James. Yeah, since we've gone in that direction, we wrote the book. The first sentence
00:46:37.880
of the book explains that this is a religious cult. Queer theory is a religious cult. It has a grip on
00:46:42.600
our children. It's based on sex. It has only a little bit to do with being gay. Very little,
00:46:47.880
as a matter of fact, most actually gay people would either do or would oppose queer theory if they
00:46:53.160
realized that they're dealing with queer theory and its contents. And queer theory has been
00:46:57.400
historically an enemy to gay civil rights movements. It opposes equality and acceptance
00:47:02.920
because those are stabilizing forces and they need radicals. This is all historical. This is
00:47:07.160
in their literature. You can easily verify what I'm saying, but we've hit on this cult religion
00:47:11.640
motif and we've talked about the satanic. And again, I urge you to remember, I'm not actually
00:47:15.640
religious. So I'm in water myself. I'm not particularly comfortable with following this
00:47:21.720
particular, whether it's metaphor or more line of description, but Satan as prosecutor, that's what
00:47:28.840
the word means. What is it? It's to deceive and then to accuse and to give birth to lies. So what does
00:47:35.240
it do this? See how often I want your viewers to just see how often this pattern in one domain or another,
00:47:42.040
whether it's the queer sexual stuff, whether it's the race stuff we have with critical race theory,
00:47:47.560
whether it's the environmental stuff, whether it's just politics, you know, down here, it's,
00:47:51.880
you know, the, the MAGA crowd up there, you've got the people who are fighting against Trudeau.
00:47:56.280
How often has this pattern played out that there's a deception in play? Oh yeah. We're just trying to
00:48:01.400
help poor kids who might commit suicide. And if you don't go along with it, there's an accusation.
00:48:07.400
The accusation is that you're a transphobe and it's your fault that it's not working.
00:48:11.640
And that forces you, in other words, gives birth to a lie in your heart when you assent to it to fit
00:48:18.200
in, to be nice, to be supportive or inclusive or empathetic as they ask you to do. This pattern
00:48:24.760
plays out far too often to be comfortable. And you'll see it again and again. Deceive,
00:48:30.120
accuse, give birth to a lie. Deceive, accuse, give birth to a lie over and over and over again.
00:48:37.080
And so I, again, I'm in uncomfortable waters, but I want people to understand that this is,
00:48:40.760
as you're alluding to, very dark. And I think it's a, it's a ancient identifiable,
00:48:46.360
named in the book, cult of Gnosticism playing out through social means. And I think that we are,
00:48:53.080
as you said, opening a box that we, I think, have a narrow window still in which to mostly shut
00:49:01.400
and keep the worst from coming out. But it takes people understanding what we're really dealing with
00:49:06.120
and that their calls to empathy are distortions and, in fact, lies, but also lures. And so that's
00:49:12.440
why we wrote the book, The Queering of the American Child, was to equip parents and grandparents,
00:49:17.880
everyday normal people who have children or work with children in particular to understand
00:49:22.600
what we're dealing with so we can make that stand and shut this dark box.
00:49:27.480
You know, I said that was the last word, but you made me, every time I listen to you,
00:49:31.480
I think of five more things I want to say, and I'm going to take the liberty of saying one more
00:49:36.120
thing and then I'll let you close. You know, how long does it take to, to learn to trust someone,
00:49:43.240
deeply trust them, months, years, maybe a lifetime? How long does it take to build a high trust society
00:49:53.000
that you deeply trust, not just your, your family, but your neighbors and others who you don't even
00:50:01.880
know closely, but you've built a high trust society, a whole town. How long does it take to build up a
00:50:07.560
town where people feel comfortable leaving their doors unlocked or the, or, you know,
00:50:13.240
women walking on the street by themselves? I would take it, I tell you that takes generations,
00:50:20.440
generations to build up a high trust society like that. And when people come from a low trust society
00:50:25.160
that take advantage of it, they can destroy it very quickly. But before they've destroyed it,
00:50:29.720
they take enormous advantage. I feel like part of this is destroying, part of this is a high trust
00:50:37.240
society issue. We, we always trusted that schools would be safe for our kids. We always trusted that
00:50:42.840
the other moms or the teachers would care. So part of it has to do with just taking advantage of a high
00:50:47.880
trust society. But, but it's also, it took us centuries to get to where we are as a civilization. And we
00:50:56.200
don't even realize how hard fought every single thing in our culture is. And I think, I think we
00:51:04.680
risk falling back centuries, not just years, but centuries, and the loss will be incalculable. And,
00:51:13.640
and we will, God forbid, if we don't change course, realize pretty soon that we will be leaving,
00:51:19.720
living in the ruins of a superior civilization. You can see that sometimes architecturally,
00:51:28.760
but I think we'll soon be able to say that morally. And in terms of personal safety, we are regressing.
00:51:36.440
And I don't know, I think you're, the ideas you've talked about here are terrifying.
00:51:40.760
And I don't know if I made any useful contribution in the last two minutes there, but you made me think
00:51:44.600
about what we take for granted and what we're losing. And I think it's been targeted on purpose.
00:51:50.600
If you have a final thought, feel free to say it. I, I'm, I think I just rambled a bit there,
00:51:55.240
but my God, this is scary. No, you're right. And, uh, what I would say is, you know, we talk about
00:52:00.440
a high trust society in terms of walking down the street at night, especially for a woman or leaving
00:52:04.840
your doors unlocked or leaving valuables in your car outside or something like this. But we also should,
00:52:10.760
you, you finally said it there too, leaving your children in the hands of other adults for
00:52:16.440
significant numbers of hours while you go off to do other things, whether it's to work for your home,
00:52:21.560
if you're a homemaker, or whether it's to do your job, if you have a job outside of the home,
00:52:25.720
but to leave your children in the hands of other people, that's an extraordinarily high trust
00:52:33.080
phenomenon. That's a phenomenon that can only happen in a society that has worked over many generations
00:52:39.160
to become very stable so that we can trust other people with our children. And what I want to say
00:52:45.480
is, like I said, we wrote this book to reveal the, the simple fact to parents, grandparents and teachers
00:52:51.400
and other adults with their heads on their shoulders. Um, they are betraying that trust at
00:52:58.200
an enormously quick rate and they are taking advantage of that trust. And I agree with you completely.
00:53:04.840
It is intentional. The goal is the destruction, the destruction of our children and by extension of
00:53:10.280
their families, the destruction of the faiths that have held families together. The destruction is
00:53:16.040
absolutely intentional and it is targeting using our children as weapons because they are using our
00:53:22.840
children and their captive state in our high trust society in our schools to bring them, induce them
00:53:30.280
into a religious cult that we have to understand as quickly as possible.
00:53:35.880
The book is called The Queering of the American Child. We've been talking with Dr. James Lindsay. Great
00:53:41.080
to see you again, my friend, and good luck with the book. I think it's very important.
00:53:48.440
Well, that's our show for today. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,
00:53:53.560
to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.