00:03:17.180And as much as the left has been horrified by his coming out as a freedom activist, I think many people love it.
00:03:23.240I think he really has saved the world in many ways, culturally, morally, by protecting freedom of speech on such an important platform as Twitter.
00:03:33.620He spent about $100 million of his own money in the last U.S. presidential election.
00:03:39.800Nothing George Soros hasn't done, but it was spectacular to see Elon Musk do it, to try and get people to vote for Donald Trump, to stop Kamala Harris and all that she meant.
00:03:51.900I think that by doing so, he helped save the country, probably saved himself.
00:03:57.220I think Elon Musk, like Donald Trump before him, would have been arrested, would have been stripped of his companies, would have been the target of lawfare, like they were doing to Trump.
00:05:56.100And he's become sort of friends with our friend Tommy Robinson, which is, you know, very risky politically for a big shot like Elon Musk to do.
00:06:06.460In fact, last year at a big rally Tommy Robinson had in London, Elon Musk came in via satellite.
00:06:12.580Here, take a look at it. Here's a small excerpt from his speech.
00:06:16.300You may notice this T-shirt that I'm wearing as great British author George Orwell.
00:06:20.520What would Orwell think? I think that's generally a good way to look at these things.
00:06:27.200He would want the people to know what's real.
00:06:30.520He'd want the people to fight against government oppression and fight for the truth and fight for the future of Britain.
00:06:37.720I tell you, Elon Musk, he's high up on a lot of enemies lists, but he can get away with things because he is the world's richest man and a very powerful man.
00:06:46.620And, of course, we all know about Starlink.
00:06:49.740That's his satellite-based internet company, which is amazing if you haven't tried it.
00:06:53.980But there is a Star Shield version of it, which you may not have heard of, which is the military satellite. So he is absolutely essential for so many countries' national security. He sort of reminds me of the comic book character Tony Stark, Iron Man, who is an inventor and an industrialist as well as a superhero.
00:07:16.320own. It's been socially important for Elon Musk to come out in favor of Tommy Robinson and others
00:07:23.220like him, because the thing about bullying and social peer pressure, it only works when the
00:07:29.740bullies are powerful, when they have sort of a moral persuasion, when they, by disparaging someone,
00:07:35.660cause you to say, oh, I'd better not talk to them. But how can you be more powerful than Elon Musk
00:07:40.920socially? So it's really made it hard for people to try and marginalize Tommy Robinson and others
00:20:20.880which essentially means there's no protest zones for 50 meters surrounding those access points.
00:20:30.380So the bylaw prohibits all sorts of things that are already illegal, like obstructing the access to the property.
00:20:37.560But probably the most concerning thing is it prohibits demonstrations,
00:20:42.580which are defined as one or more people in a place primarily for the purpose of expressing an opinion.
00:20:49.520So it could just be a person holding a sign would be prohibited for 50 meters from the access point to the designated facility.
00:20:57.580You know, that's very concerning. I know section 176.2 of the criminal code off by heart, which is an obscure section, but it prohibits disturbing churches, synagogues, mosques. You're not allowed to, quote, disturb them. And that makes sense. There's some sense to that.
00:21:16.880And that word disturbance in there. And that's very different from a peaceful person standing with a sign out front. And I think you're so right to be concerned, especially if they define a demonstration as just expressing an opinion, and to do so even if you're on your own. A one-man demonstration. I'm sort of chuckling at the idea of that.
00:21:41.720Let me ask you this, because in the past, labor unions have opposed rules like this because they can imagine it being used to shut down strikers.
00:21:53.880You know, sometimes people on strike, they protest at their particular place of work and they maybe even slow down a car getting in or out for a minute, make them wait.
00:22:03.840It's a little bit of a hassle, but it's I suppose it's a Canadian tradition.
00:22:07.280In the past, labor unions have been very worried about these anti-protest rules because, you know, unions protest from time to time.
00:22:16.060Who supports this bill and does anyone other than you guys oppose it?
00:22:20.720It's not a bill, sorry, it's a policy or a bylaw.
00:22:30.900So they've got a favor for their friends.
00:22:32.900Right. So the city council has now voted on this. It happened last week. And basically, the council was overwhelmingly in favor of it. There were a few councillors who tried to amend the bylaw to remove the prohibition on demonstration, for example.
00:22:52.400So then it would just prohibit these more sort of obstructive behaviors. But that was voted down. And ultimately, the bylaw has now been approved.
00:23:01.800As far as I'm aware, it has not been implemented yet because it depends on organizations actually applying for a safe access point.
00:23:10.640But, you know, I doubt it'll be long until that happens.
00:23:13.820You know, I've there have been a lot of protests against Jewish synagogues, against Jewish schools in the last two and a half years.
00:23:21.980and they've concerned me but i have even though i'm jewish i've resisted the call
00:23:27.960for new laws because i've always said look we have laws on the books if there's uttering threats if
00:23:34.200there's harassment if there's mischief if there's trespass all of these things are already caught
00:23:40.340under the law and by the way stalking or or uh i think they call it besetting the law i don't think
00:23:47.380the law uses the word stalking it uses some those are already on the books so if if someone was
00:23:53.300doing threatening behavior if someone was stalking you we don't need a new city bylaw to deal with
00:24:00.600something that the criminal code has contemplated in many cases for centuries i mean the laws
00:24:05.280against uttering threats or trespass go back almost to time immemorial we don't it's not like
00:24:11.300in 2026 the the city of ottawa counselors have discovered a hole in our in our criminal code
00:24:18.960that only they can patch what are your thoughts on that i mean if there was a problem cops have
00:24:24.840a lot of tools don't they including disturbing the peace breach of the peace those are pretty
00:24:29.840vague catch-alls cops can already fix these problems with current laws am i right to say that
00:24:36.880Yeah, I think so. A number of the subsections in this bylaw prohibit obstructing or hindering access to a location. And that's almost mirroring the language of the offense of mischief as well, which includes obstructing access or enjoyment of the use of property.
00:24:54.640um yeah you know i i agree with you azra i'm always wary when there's new laws like this
00:25:00.180being introduced because the the sort of the the ancient laws you know the oldest criminal
00:25:05.860prohibitions the the common law all these kinds of things already capture the the rights that
00:25:11.580people have and ought to enjoy you know the rights to property the right to enjoy their
00:25:15.360their property and sort of peace without disturbance um so what this bylaw ends up
00:25:20.860doing in my in my view is it is it's redundant it copies those laws that already exist uh but
00:25:26.980then it goes farther by prohibiting demonstrations and also uh you know just because it's it's kind
00:25:32.940of humorous i'll bring it up but also prohibits uh causing or permitting a bass noise or an
00:25:39.180unusual noise or a noise likely to disturb the peace so no strange sounds are permitted
00:25:44.460at these access points either unusual it's so vague you know one of them i mean i i haven't
00:25:50.400practice law in decades but i like to dabble in the ideas that i remember in law school
00:25:54.460um you know one of the things our constitution protects us against is uh uh laws that are vague
00:26:02.280if a law is vague you can't know how to follow it and and there's that phrase void for vagueness
00:26:08.380if someone said hey ezra stop making all those unusual sounds i would what what does that mean
00:26:15.160is my voice unusual is it if i yodel i mean that's sort of unusual i mean it i don't it just
00:26:22.800seems like such a catch-all um was there any consideration in city council debates
00:26:32.520to the chart of rights like did they even talk about it did they even acknowledge that there may
00:26:38.500be the right to protest even if people don't like i'm not saying the right to use loudspeakers to
00:26:44.700shout down a church or a mosque or a synagogue i i agree with section 176 2 of the criminal code
00:26:50.780but did anyone say hey guys we might be going too far or was it just the unions
00:26:55.200who had their charter rights protected uh i mean so the the council did reference the charter
00:27:01.380uh you know they they had these comments about you know we respect the right to protest but also
00:27:07.260it's about balancing the right to uh to safe access is what they called it um there were a
00:27:13.400few councillors who, you know, someone did try proposing an amendment that would have removed
00:27:19.260demonstration from the bylaw. But the vast majority of councillors voted against that. And then the
00:27:25.240vast majority of councillors approved the bylaw as it currently stands. Yeah, I'm not too surprised.
00:27:30.760I mean, Ottawa was ground zero for violating our civil liberties during the trucker convoy. I mean,
00:27:36.960I was there for a few days, but I watched it very carefully every day.
00:28:01.540The only comparable reaction was the War Measures Act in October crisis 56 years ago.
00:28:09.960And I don't know, I just think Ottawa, sometimes they think, maybe it's like the ruling city, that they can tell the peasants not to protest.
00:28:19.300I don't know, I don't think it's a good look, and I think this has echoes of their censorship from four years ago.
00:28:25.260I hope you guys will stay on the file. And if any of these institutions request this bubble zone, I hope you guys will be there to inspect it and push back as appropriate.
00:28:38.380Yeah, we'll be keeping a close eye on this. And if anyone in Ottawa ends up running into this bylaw, you know, I invite you to go to jccf.ca and find the intake page there and let them know your story.
00:28:50.380There he is, Hatim Kier, lawyer for the Justice Center, keeping an eye on our civil liberties.
00:28:55.500Thanks for taking the time with us today.