Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Here's what protesters had to say at London's Pro-Hamas rally

00:00:00.000 tonight I'm in London for a giant pro Hamas protest I'll tell you how it goes it's October 0.99

00:00:26.100 30th and this is the Ezra Levant show shame on you you censorious bug

00:00:42.840 Ezra Levant here for Rebel News I am in London England I'm standing next to the ancient River

00:00:48.840 Thames over there Big Ben the houses of Parliament this is a an amazing city with

00:00:55.440 an amazing river centuries of history look at this obelisk from Egypt let me read to

00:01:00.960 you the inscription of course there's a couple of sphinxes at the base this obelisk prostrate

00:01:07.200 for centuries on the sands of Alexandria was presented to the British nation AD 1819 204

00:01:15.900 years ago by Mohammed Ali Viceroy of Egypt a worthy memorial of our distinguished countryman Nelson and

00:01:23.640 Abercrombie so that obelisk was lying down in the sands of Egypt and it was sent here and it's been

00:01:31.140 standing here a symbol of Empire and how broadly you'll be old saying the Sun never set on the

00:01:38.040 British Empire from India to Canada to Arabia and of course even before that to America what's

00:01:45.960 interesting is I don't think that the UK is an imperial power anymore rather it has been colonized

00:01:53.760 by millions of people who have come here many for good reasons for the freedom for the economic

00:02:00.840 opportunity because it's just such a beautiful place but others have come here to politically

00:02:06.720 colonize it and I think that's what we saw today I don't know how many people were in the rally for Hamas to

00:02:15.780 smash Israel I was inside the group so I saw probably thousands but it wouldn't surprise me if there 1.00

00:02:24.180 were tens of thousands a week or two ago there was 100,000 according to police estimates I don't doubt it

00:02:32.520 at all I want to show you how I approached this rally a lot of it was me being very careful because

00:02:39.780 although there was a large police presence the police were at the periphery and so if I chose

00:02:45.240 to go into the crowd there wasn't a cop in sight I had to be very gentle with my language even though I

00:02:52.260 was diametrically opposed to many of the messages in the protest because if things turned rough I would

00:02:58.380 have been absolutely helpless as would our cameraman so we started off by walking down to the protest we saw

00:03:04.780 overhead a police helicopter that told us that they were on high alert for regular protest issues but

00:03:13.240 remember Hamas is a terrorist group that's not a matter of opinion under UK law it is a terrorist group and

00:03:20.080 there are thousands of jihadis on the streets of the UK being tracked allegedly by the police so there is a

00:03:27.580 non-zero risk that a peaceful protest could actually have violent elements anyways when we walked in we

00:03:34.900 were it was shoulder to shoulder and it was a very tight space I saw a friendly gentleman who wanted to

00:03:42.400 talk to us right away and he was with the Socialist Workers Party so he's an indigenous Brit as we say and it

00:03:50.960 was interesting to listen to him and I mean he was just giving boilerplate arguments about socialism and and

00:03:56.260 it dawned on me that a lot of the administrative and financial and organizational backbone of the

00:04:02.740 pro Hamas movement in the UK are the Socialist Workers Party hard left-wing trade unions that have been a

00:04:10.300 political force in this country for decades here here's some exits of my conversation with the first

00:04:15.940 fellow I met and I was very gentle because there wasn't a cop in sight and I was surrounded take a look

00:04:23.680 at how that conversation went can you tell me a little bit about yourself and why you're here yeah

00:04:28.120 my name is Rob I'm a member of the Socialist Party I'm also a trade unionist I'm here today because as

00:04:33.580 you can see people are absolutely furious at really the genocide the the attack on Gaza and people are

00:04:41.620 marching in solidarity and also in protest against this Tory government that is backing up the Israeli state 0.99

00:04:50.500 government so people here are standing in solidarity with ordinary people in Gaza they can't believe the

00:04:56.020 horrific you know attack that is murderous attack that is happening there right now so now I heard you

00:05:03.940 say just a moment ago that I think you criticized the Labour Party as well that's what caught my ear

00:05:09.160 yeah what's your view on the Labour Party because what what is scan is it's outrageous obviously that the

00:05:14.560 British government is really backing up the Israeli government and you think the Labour Party is too

00:05:20.800 but there's no opposition from the Labour leadership a few years ago when Jeremy Corbyn was leader you

00:05:26.920 know Labour's policy that the policy that Starmer got elected on was to to do away with the illegal

00:05:34.600 occupation of Gaza or campaign against that to recognize the Palestinian state Starmer won't even call for a

00:05:41.800 ceasefire can I ask you some tough questions are you sure yes okay I want to ask you some tough

00:05:47.500 questions what do you think about the attack on Israel that killed 1400 people well we don't support 0.69

00:05:56.620 that we didn't support we don't support the attack by a mass of only we don't support that attack in

00:06:04.540 reality that attacked it was counterproductive it the Netanyahu government has been there's been a

00:06:12.940 mass movement over the last year which people probably don't realize around the world there's

00:06:17.320 been a mass movement of strikes of protest against the Netanyahu's government because it's a big business

00:06:23.240 government can I ask you some more question right the attack by a mass is counterproductive is what it did

00:06:28.840 was it showed up support behind Netanyahu temporarily I believe so that's a that's looking at things from

00:06:35.860 a utilitarian point of view but how about from a moral point of view are you morally against the Hamas 0.80

00:06:41.920 attack on southern Israel no we don't agree with the attack for moral reasons also we don't agree we don't

00:06:49.060 agree look from the perspective of how does ordinary people have a solution in the Middle East which we

00:06:56.800 think should be a socialist solution where national rights of Palestinians and only Israelis Israelis are 0.61

00:07:03.160 protected and respected but the point is is attacks like that cannot win that cannot win that because

00:07:12.640 what they do is is that unfortunately they shore up support behind what is a right-wing government in Israel

00:07:19.240 I got two more questions and I'll let you go thanks very much for giving me your time by the way

00:07:23.440 um some I hear a chant from the river to the sea and in my mind that means that from the Jordan River

00:07:31.180 to the Mediterranean that'll be a Palestinian country uh is there room for an Israeli country also or must

00:07:39.820 Israel completely go which is what I'm hearing I think the vast majority of people are when they say 0.99

00:07:44.080 that I see in that the Palestinians at the moment don't have any real rights you know would you support a 1.00

00:07:50.440 Jewish country there what I what what we say is the socialist party is there needs to be a socialist

00:07:56.140 solution in Israel Palestine in the Middle East for the Palestinian masses and ordinary Israelis not the

00:08:03.920 net and I use of this world not the Israeli government in the Israeli state and our means for us the first

00:08:10.900 issue is it needs a socialist solution like we need in Britain that can provide for ordinary people across

00:08:16.600 the divide and if that means that you have to have two socialist states that can work voluntary work

00:08:23.500 out that relationship then that would be a you know a step in the right direction last question for you

00:08:30.580 uh there there have been some anti-semitic incidents and some anti-semitic language are you worried about

00:08:37.300 anti-semitism in the UK look I I socialist party thing like the vast majority of people are opposed to

00:08:45.700 Islamophobia as opposed to anti-semitism are opposed to all racism uh that exists and of course we are

00:08:53.320 totally opposed to that like we are opposed to Islamophobia and all sorts of all sorts of racism uh and all

00:09:02.080 attacks on equality would you ever go to a vigil with Jews or Israelis uh to to show moral support 0.94

00:09:10.540 for them after the losses of three weeks ago well look we are totally opposed to the attack by a mass

00:09:17.380 on the uh you know in that took place in Israel on October the seventh of course some will say but

00:09:25.540 but let's we all must recognize this this crisis didn't start on October the seventh right we have our

00:09:31.540 decades and decades of oppression of illegal occupation um by the Israeli state backed up by the western

00:09:38.800 capitalist uh governments but I tell you what we did do is when you add protests in London and around the

00:09:45.880 world in support in solidarity by Israelis in London with the protests against Netanyahu we were on those

00:09:53.620 protests so we are here today in solidarity with the Palestinians and those supporting the Palestinians but

00:09:59.380 when you had a mass movement against the right-wing Netanyahu government and Israelis in this country

00:10:04.480 were on protesting in solidarity we were on those marches because we believe if there can be unity

00:10:11.680 between the Palestinian masses of working people in Israel that can remove the capitalist government in

00:10:18.220 Israel and have a socialist future how that is worked out depends on uh working people across those

00:10:25.060 in those communities that is a solution for ordinary people as I walked around the protest grounds I saw

00:10:31.900 a lot of kiosks or tents for similar organizations anti-British anti-American socialist workers I even saw a

00:10:41.740 communist revolution poster so there is a British element to this most of the crowd I would say 75% look to be

00:10:52.060 islamic or or uh racialized as they would say but I'd say about a quarter of folks here were either woke

00:11:00.160 white young people who've probably been through some grievance studies degree or I think it's probably

00:11:07.820 accurate to say just a lot of um superannuated leftists who were for the disarmament movement in the 80s

00:11:16.840 and for the environmental movement in the 90s and now they're on the free free Palestine movement

00:11:22.180 in the 2020s it's the issue isn't the issue the revolution is the issue and that's how I put that

00:11:29.380 socialist workers guy um I noticed a few other things on the streets for example I noticed uh a

00:11:36.820 postering campaign you might know that for the last few weeks uh around the world um supporters of

00:11:44.140 Israel and I think people who are just appalled by terrorism have put up posters for the missing

00:11:49.480 kidnapped children who were taken as hostages by Hamas in their terror raid on Israel October 7th

00:11:57.040 these have gone up in cities around the world and there's been videotape of people tearing down

00:12:01.420 those posters which is a shocking thing when you think about it well this March they've had their own

00:12:07.560 version of those posters with children that they say Israel has killed so they are certainly meeting 0.96

00:12:13.660 the propaganda gap there was a lot of propaganda and we filmed as many signs and chants as we could

00:12:20.960 here listen to some of the chants and see some of the signs they're talking about an intifada revolution

00:12:28.220 to to make the river to the sea Jew free here take a look at some of the things we saw 1.00

00:12:35.320 Palestine will be free Palestine Israel is a terrorist state 0.97

00:12:44.460 our temptation no more 0.99

00:12:48.700 Israel is a terrorist state

00:12:52.800 Palestine Palestine will be free Palestine will be free Palestine will be free 0.97

00:13:07.920 Palestine will be free 0.99

00:13:22.120 Well it was good to talk to an old socialist worker, but I wanted to talk to people who had a little bit more skin in the game, people from the Muslim community.

00:13:31.520 And again, there was not a cop in sight. We took our microphone flag off just so if anyone knew Rebel News they might not be turned off by it.

00:13:40.060 And my questions again were very basic.

00:13:42.460 I mean, we came across this bizarre sight which you see in a few cities in the world, ultra-Orthodox Jews wearing their fur hats who are against the state of Israel. 0.82

00:13:54.100 It's really weird. You would think that they of all people would want the state of Israel, but they have an obscure sect that believes that there should be no state of Israel until the Messiah comes.

00:14:06.200 And so any attempt to rebuild Israel before that is a kind of blasphemy because Jews should wander in exile.

00:14:15.040 Jews should be driven out until God says, you're done. 1.00

00:14:19.880 It would be like if Moses wanted to take a shortcut to the Promised Land instead of wandering for 40 years. 0.99

00:14:25.760 These extremist Jews want to take, don't think a 2,000 year wandering is enough. 0.99

00:14:32.040 So we saw some of those, it's a very strange thing to see, and I saw a Muslim man who I think was from Pakistan originally, praising them, and I said, hey, let's talk to this fella.

00:14:45.160 Here's a little bit about how that conversation went.

00:14:48.080 I'm going to truncate it a bit because he was quite voluble, and I don't want to bore you with the whole thing.

00:14:52.620 But at the end, when I asked him if Hamas was a terrorist group, he said, oh, don't make me condemn it. 0.55

00:15:00.880 I said, I'm not asking you to condemn it, just would you acknowledge that they're terrorists?

00:15:05.540 Watch the conversation.

00:15:06.700 It took me about five minutes to get to the essential question.

00:15:10.020 Take a look.

00:15:10.540 Yeah, my name is Javed, Kemal Javed.

00:15:12.580 Kemal Javed, nice to meet you.

00:15:13.920 I'm used to, likewise.

00:15:16.160 We're from Canada.

00:15:17.240 Canada, I wonder if you can tell us what's going on and why you're here.

00:15:21.680 Well, basically, we're here to support the Palestinian and the Israeli war that's currently going on, and we realize both sides, there's been a loss of life.

00:15:32.480 There's been a lot of people killed.

00:15:34.580 Other people, the officials know the actual numbers much better than we do, but really what everybody's here now for is that we need a ceasefire.

00:15:44.240 We need to stop this killing.

00:15:46.540 Hey, can I ask you two more questions?

00:15:48.240 I don't want to take up too much of your time.

00:15:49.640 Thanks for stopping and talking to me.

00:15:50.800 Okay, no problem.

00:15:51.200 What do you make of those guys?

00:15:52.720 Oh, these are, well, I mean, I don't know them personally or whatever.

00:15:56.920 These are Orthodox Jews who themselves are going around with the banners and going around with the letters that they sent when Israel was created.

00:16:06.720 As far as our religion is concerned, we cannot even take over a land that's not occupied.

00:16:14.300 That's what the Orthodox Jews say.

00:16:17.560 And they go, never mind the land that was previously already occupied.

00:16:21.700 So what they're saying is like a lot of us are saying, that basically their religion has been hijacked by people who have a different agenda.

00:16:31.280 People who sort of hijacked Judaism itself.

00:16:35.000 That's what they're saying.

00:16:35.820 I mean, I haven't spoken to them in detail, but like yourself, you can easily see this all over, you know?

00:16:41.480 Can I ask you one last question, then I'll let you go.

00:16:43.380 And thanks again for your time.

00:16:44.680 No problem.

00:16:45.140 There has been, there have been anti-Semitic incidents and a lot of Jews in the United Kingdom say they feel afraid of violence and, you know, the threats of violent revolution and intifada.

00:17:02.240 What would you say about that?

00:17:03.960 No, I mean, I've just shaken hands.

00:17:05.780 Are these not the Jews we're talking about? 0.99

00:17:08.480 Are we talking about different Jews?

00:17:09.660 I'm talking about, you know, there's a few hundred thousand Jews in the UK and their board of deputies and other Jewish leaders are reporting anti-Semitic incidents.

00:17:19.260 I've seen videos of some of some anti-Semitic incidents.

00:17:22.860 Some Jewish shops have been smashed.

00:17:24.860 Are you worried about anti-Semitism?

00:17:27.360 Well, I'm worried about anti-Semitism, just like Islamophobia. 0.92

00:17:31.140 And I think some of this is being taken a little bit out of proportion because you've got to have some key points, you know, like these 40 beheaded babies or whatever.

00:17:42.680 You know, you've got to implant this.

00:17:44.300 I don't know if you remember, but Iraq war, you could not use as a media, you could not use any other terminology.

00:17:49.960 You couldn't say chemical.

00:17:51.060 It had to be WMD, WMD, WMD.

00:17:53.120 Do you think Hamas is a terrorist group?

00:17:54.940 Hamas? 0.90

00:17:55.920 Yeah.

00:17:57.280 One group, one person's terrorist is another person's resistance.

00:18:02.260 So how about for you?

00:18:02.980 I don't know for them.

00:18:03.900 You don't know for Hamas, the terrorist group?

00:18:05.260 What they did that, we would not condone that.

00:18:08.720 Okay, but would you condemn it, though?

00:18:10.780 Well, see, if I hadn't seen enough interviews, I would condemn it.

00:18:15.180 Would you condemn what Israel is doing right now?

00:18:18.020 I'm interviewing you as a British Muslim, so I'm not even from Britain.

00:18:21.600 I'm trying to understand.

00:18:23.420 You've said some interesting things.

00:18:24.720 I just want to know if you think that Hamas is a terrorist group.

00:18:27.680 I don't know from what they say.

00:18:29.260 Yeah, Britain says they're a terrorist group.

00:18:30.800 And what do you say?

00:18:31.740 Well, I don't know any of the guys.

00:18:33.300 You don't know?

00:18:33.680 No, I would easily say I've got no issues with that, yeah?

00:18:36.940 The only reason...

00:18:37.660 So will you say it?

00:18:38.880 What?

00:18:39.240 Oh, no, we're not going to go through this.

00:18:40.660 No, I'm just wondering.

00:18:41.340 Will you condemn Hamas?

00:18:43.020 Will you condemn Hamas?

00:18:44.580 No, I'm not, I'm just, I'm actually not even asking you to condemn them.

00:18:47.460 I'm just wondering if you think they're a terrorist group.

00:18:49.140 Yeah, but do you think Nelson Mandela was a terrorist?

00:18:52.340 You know, and I'm...

00:18:52.800 Before he became the world leader and before we all bowed down to him...

00:18:56.080 You're...

00:18:56.660 Did you say Yasser Arafat was a terrorist?

00:18:58.920 Wasn't Gandhi...

00:18:59.480 So you think Hamas is like Nelson Mandela?

00:19:02.760 No, I think from what I hear and see that they're more like sort of a resistant group.

00:19:08.020 Who's funding them?

00:19:08.860 Where are they from?

00:19:09.580 I don't know.

00:19:10.140 But how about what they did?

00:19:11.460 How about what they did?

00:19:12.800 No, that was horrific.

00:19:13.680 Okay, so... 0.95

00:19:14.600 I started off by saying cannot kill, you know, because they're claiming to be Muslim. 1.00

00:19:20.500 So why won't you just call them terrorists then? 0.68

00:19:22.380 It's no big deal.

00:19:23.260 If you acknowledge they did horrific things, why don't you say they're a terrorist group?

00:19:26.800 Okay, they did horrific things, but their horrific in numbers is 1,500.

00:19:31.840 This horrific, which I just asked you to say, and then you backed off and you said...

00:19:35.680 I'm a journalist, I'll give my opinions later.

00:19:39.120 Okay, you give us 1,500 terrorists, 7,000 and blackout and all the killings.

00:19:48.120 Why is it so difficult to say that?

00:19:49.520 That's terrorism.

00:19:51.060 Well, listen...

00:19:51.760 I mean, we've got no qualms, but I'm just saying, we're just trying to pick up bits and

00:19:56.380 snippets of information and stuff that we get here.

00:19:58.480 Last question, last question, then I'll let you go.

00:20:00.660 Because you've got so many interesting things to say.

00:20:02.860 So some people here say from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, which implies 0.99

00:20:08.000 from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

00:20:11.580 See, you know more than I do, but yeah.

00:20:13.840 So do you think...

00:20:16.460 You obviously believe that there should be a Palestinian state.

00:20:19.280 Do you think there should also be a Jewish state in the Holy Land?

00:20:23.440 Well, I think that these two groups of people have lived together before.

00:20:29.460 I think they should...

00:20:31.040 They can live together.

00:20:32.060 That there is a bigger agenda, which, as I said, what these guys have been screaming

00:20:36.720 and shouting about, that Judaism is not Zionism.

00:20:39.860 Okay.

00:20:40.080 So do you think...

00:20:41.040 Should there...

00:20:42.260 You know, if there was a Palestinian state, should there also be a Jewish state in the

00:20:46.660 Holy Land?

00:20:47.100 Well, I think, yes.

00:20:47.980 Yeah.

00:20:48.300 They can live together.

00:20:49.240 The Christians can live together.

00:20:50.560 How about the Jews?

00:20:51.420 Well, yeah.

00:20:51.760 Of course the Jews can live together.

00:20:53.280 Who allowed them or who accepted them or who opened their arms up to them, you know, 1948 0.98

00:20:58.240 or whenever it was.

00:20:59.800 It was whoever was there beforehand, which you can see on maps, which you can see on

00:21:03.980 the coins everywhere, that there was a state called Palestine, yeah?

00:21:07.900 And the two of them lived happily for some time.

00:21:10.780 And then, obviously, this nationalism and other stuff got in the way.

00:21:14.140 And I don't know who's sincere or who's not, but the people who are supposed to be sincere

00:21:19.640 and neutral, they're turning out to be not so sincere, not so neutral, because if they

00:21:24.840 can't at you and at least put their hand up and say, at least let's stop this, you know,

00:21:28.860 whatever power they have.

00:21:30.000 If they can't do that, what else are they going to do?

00:21:32.100 Thanks for giving me so much time.

00:21:33.440 All right, all right, all right.

00:21:33.840 Appreciate it.

00:21:34.360 Thank you.

00:21:34.620 All right, take it.

00:21:34.900 Well, by this point in time, most of the march had gone down the street.

00:21:39.060 They went across, you know, there's a lot of bridges in London.

00:21:42.500 They went across the bridge and they came marching back another.

00:21:45.600 There really were many thousands.

00:21:46.940 So, by this time, the protests had really died down and some normal tourist life had

00:21:54.040 come back to the streets.

00:21:55.740 But I saw someone who was eyeing us and he obviously wanted to talk.

00:21:59.580 So, I went up to him and introduced myself.

00:22:02.120 He said his name was Ahmed and he had a cameraman, too, who asked if he could film it at the same

00:22:08.320 time.

00:22:09.120 And I said, sure.

00:22:10.080 I mean, why not?

00:22:11.220 So, our conversation was, we weren't really on the same wavelength.

00:22:15.580 And I tried to ask him what his vision was if he got his way.

00:22:24.220 What would it be like?

00:22:25.420 Would there even be an Israel at all? 0.99

00:22:28.160 How would, if he could wave the magic wand and have an outcome that he wanted, what would

00:22:33.160 it look like?

00:22:34.360 I'll show you a little bit of how that conversation went.

00:22:36.860 I don't think it was particularly fruitful.

00:22:38.480 Take a look.

00:22:38.980 Mazra, I'm from, we're from Canada.

00:22:41.420 My friend Lincoln, what's your name?

00:22:43.580 Ahmed.

00:22:44.360 Ahmed, good to meet you.

00:22:45.720 So, it looks like you're collecting donations and you're doing some journalism.

00:22:50.580 Doing some journalism, indeed, on YouTube.

00:22:52.080 Having a tremendous amount of success as well.

00:22:54.040 We've got lots and lots of views on lots and lots of people showing considerable interest

00:22:57.920 in the tyranny.

00:22:59.320 This face is tyrannical, what the Israelis are doing. 1.00

00:23:01.580 No matter what their opponents have done, their excess force has been so astronomical that

00:23:08.220 we can see the people are not being fooled.

00:23:11.020 That's why they're coming out in their hundreds of thousands.

00:23:13.260 Last week's estimate, there was 350,000 people at this protest.

00:23:16.900 But I would think there's many, many more.

00:23:19.160 I think we could be looking at the million.

00:23:20.880 The question is, will our governments continue in this path of unequivocal support for Israel 0.89

00:23:26.460 when their bombardment is so relentless, even to the extent that they have now rejected the

00:23:32.320 statements of the UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, and they've outrightly rejected his statements.

00:23:37.960 That this is like a catastrophe bordering on the extinction of a particular race.

00:23:45.000 Let me ask you about the solutions, because I've heard different chants here.

00:23:50.040 I've seen different posters, and I'm trying to understand what the desired outcome is.

00:23:56.280 So maybe you can tell me, what is the hope for resolution from your point of view?

00:24:01.400 Well, UN Resolution 242.

00:24:02.780 No, no, sorry, I don't mean UN resolution.

00:24:04.320 I know what you mean.

00:24:04.720 I mean, like, on the ground.

00:24:05.760 I understand.

00:24:06.320 Okay, on the ground, immediate cessation of hostilities from all parties concerned.

00:24:11.360 And by that proxy, an immediate and unequivocal guarantee that a solution is incumbent.

00:24:17.540 Meaning, we're not going to have talks about talks, like in the famous 1993 Oslo Accords,

00:24:23.020 where Bill Clinton got hold of Shimon Peres.

00:24:25.220 And the first thing they mentioned is, let's have talks about talks in reference to the Palestinian issue.

00:24:30.240 But we want something done now.

00:24:31.680 The immediate cessation of violence.

00:24:34.540 Israel withdraws back to its pre-1967 borders.

00:24:37.100 That will be the first prerequisite, as according to the UN Resolution 242 and 338,

00:24:42.120 where they have to disperse from the West Bank and Gaza,

00:24:44.520 which they have not done and flagrantly rejected international law,

00:24:48.900 which we are supposed to be great proponents of.

00:24:51.760 So, back to the 1967 borders means the West Bank and the Gaza.

00:24:58.320 But one of the chants I've heard is from the river to the sea.

00:25:03.940 So, that's the Jordan River, I imagine, and the Mediterranean Sea,

00:25:08.040 which would cover Tel Aviv, which would cover pre-1967 Israel.

00:25:14.080 Do you believe there should be a state of Israel in the Holy Land?

00:25:18.100 Well, Israel, this is a common fallacy of history, 1.00

00:25:20.620 that the land of Israel belongs to the Israelites.

00:25:23.040 So, you don't think it does?

00:25:23.920 Well, I'm just going to give you an elongated answer.

00:25:26.180 It's not a simple yes or no.

00:25:27.540 Because the general understanding amongst the Jews

00:25:30.700 is that the Israelites were the natural inhabitants of the land of Palestine.

00:25:34.300 But that's not the case.

00:25:35.240 The Canaanites and the Philistines were there before them as well.

00:25:38.320 So, that's a misnomer.

00:25:39.140 When Moses parted them from the sea and they went forth,

00:25:42.080 it was not that that was their particular land.

00:25:44.600 The land could have been chosen from there all the way to the river Euphrates.

00:25:47.660 But it was not that that was their particular land.

00:25:49.580 So, at the moment, they have to...

00:25:51.540 I mean, the 1967 borders would have to be the initial prerequisite, 0.96

00:25:55.100 which they have to vacate the occupying lands.

00:25:58.060 And obviously, there are millions of people over there,

00:25:59.780 so they can't be displaced, even though they're Israelis.

00:26:02.140 So, that's a given fact.

00:26:03.400 So, at the same time, there has to be some sort of accommodation for them,

00:26:06.220 unless there is mass repatriation back to different parts of the world,

00:26:10.300 which they came from, which is going to be unlikely.

00:26:12.000 So, it's not like we're going to be looking at augmenting another human catastrophe

00:26:17.160 in the shape of the Jewish people who are already there.

00:26:21.380 But, however, that would be the prerequisite, the 1967 borders.

00:26:24.880 So, prerequisite for what?

00:26:27.120 For talks.

00:26:27.920 So, Israel must withdraw from the occupied territory.

00:26:31.280 That's the prerequisite.

00:26:32.180 And who should...

00:26:33.040 Who would Israel's negotiating counterpart be?

00:26:37.080 Who would be on the other side of the table?

00:26:38.620 Well, anyone who is of a particular understanding, that would be a central call.

00:26:43.740 So, any political party which evaluates that and understands that.

00:26:46.820 Because what is the other alternative?

00:26:48.320 So, who would represent the people of Gaza?

00:26:50.320 That would be the case.

00:26:51.240 So, Hamas? 0.54

00:26:52.320 Whoever that would be the case.

00:26:53.540 Whoever is elected democratically.

00:26:55.340 Supposedly, we have democratically elected governments.

00:26:57.760 From my understanding, Hamas was democratically elected.

00:27:00.720 I've never been to Palestine.

00:27:01.760 So, from my understanding, that was the case.

00:27:03.600 So, let the Palestinian people decide.

00:27:05.200 Are you from Britain originally, or did you come here from...

00:27:07.360 I'm from there, yeah.

00:27:08.080 And, do you mind me asking where you grew up and...

00:27:12.080 Yes, I was born and brought up in London.

00:27:13.740 And what shaped your views on these subjects?

00:27:16.660 Well, the historicity.

00:27:17.580 I mean, the fact that Britain, unfortunately, not the Englishman, not the average Joe public,

00:27:21.960 but our governments played terrible games.

00:27:23.880 The Balfour Declaration, 1917.

00:27:26.000 How they, in France, secretly tried to divide Palestine amongst themselves,

00:27:29.980 having promised the Arabs the autonomous state that they would be getting.

00:27:33.380 They played games galore, which they are, unfortunately, doing now.

00:27:35.980 You have to accept this.

00:27:37.000 Do you accept that the British and the Americans are playing games?

00:27:39.980 Do you accept this?

00:27:42.200 Well, I...

00:27:42.980 Do you accept, historically speaking, the Balfour Declaration,

00:27:46.480 the British government at that time were playing games in trying to divide and rule,

00:27:50.700 where they were promising the Arabs that they would have their country backed 0.76

00:27:53.380 if they supported them during the First World War.

00:27:55.760 And after that, they broke their treaties.

00:27:58.200 And they were, between France and Britain, they were going to divide Palestine for themselves.

00:28:02.300 But on the blind side, the relevant Israeli groups, they got together and decided otherwise

00:28:09.920 with support from the U.S.

00:28:11.180 Well, I think my friend Ahmed was getting a little bit bored of my questions,

00:28:14.920 and he wanted to ask me questions.

00:28:16.800 And he put a question to me that was so, so many clauses and caveats and preambles,

00:28:24.720 it was sort of an impossible question to answer.

00:28:27.560 I'll show you the question.

00:28:29.260 And they got a little stroppy because I just didn't want to be interviewed then.

00:28:34.560 I wanted to interview them.

00:28:35.820 They were the ones at the protest.

00:28:37.520 They were the ones with the message.

00:28:39.360 They wanted to flip the script.

00:28:41.180 Here's how that question went.

00:28:42.480 You've asked me really less questions.

00:28:43.780 I'd like to ask you, I've asked several of your questions.

00:28:47.020 What I'd like to ask you, do you condemn the Israeli government's barbaric bombardment

00:28:52.720 of the innocent people of Palestine in which the indigenous masses of this country

00:28:56.320 are viewing and coming out and protesting?

00:28:59.600 I don't think I want to answer that question.

00:29:01.540 I want to be a reporter.

00:29:02.540 It's amazing.

00:29:03.180 Wherever you go, it seems the Western media are so frivolous to criticize Israel in any capacity.

00:29:08.880 It's like an endemic fear that they could lose their job

00:29:11.380 or they could lose any other intelligence.

00:29:12.760 I'm not worried about losing my job.

00:29:14.900 I'm just here to ask you some questions.

00:29:17.700 If you don't want to answer any more, that's okay.

00:29:20.580 Sure.

00:29:21.780 I've answered several of your questions.

00:29:22.980 So again, that's fair that I asked you a basic...

00:29:24.840 Yes, but we agreed.

00:29:25.740 We agreed that you will answer some questions.

00:29:27.460 Yes, we agreed upon that.

00:29:28.440 You have another face, another real face.

00:29:33.260 We're asking you reasonable questions.

00:29:35.180 We're asking you reasonable, responsive questions.

00:29:36.860 It seems that you're not going to accept this 1917 Balfour Declaration.

00:29:41.480 You're not going to accept what the Western governments got up to.

00:29:44.080 They're trying to divide and rule.

00:29:45.100 The British have already accepted this was their policy during the subcontinent era as well.

00:29:49.400 So let's face it.

00:29:50.180 All these events that are occurring in the world, in Kashmir, in Palestine, wherever you go,

00:29:56.000 have been the result of the foreign policies of the Western governments,

00:29:58.820 in particular Britain and now today America.

00:30:00.760 Do you accept this or not?

00:30:02.820 You're saying about 20 things and asking me if I accept it.

00:30:05.820 Singular question.

00:30:06.900 It's a very long question.

00:30:08.340 I'll shorten it.

00:30:09.680 Did you come to the Kashmir protest?

00:30:12.100 Did you come to the rally for Kashmir?

00:30:15.080 Yes, so we seem to be digressing.

00:30:16.920 It's a fair question that I've asked.

00:30:18.280 You seem to be going on the tangent.

00:30:20.140 Well, you just mentioned the crisis in Kashmir, and I wonder if you were here for the rally.

00:30:23.900 What happens is when the Muslim audience or people in general will observe our conversation,

00:30:28.960 and I've answered your questions, and you've not answered a singular one.

00:30:32.180 Well, I'm not here as a protester.

00:30:34.740 You are deliberately not looking to answer the questions because you're fearful of potential repercussions.

00:30:38.840 If the question is, do you support killing children, obviously the answer is no.

00:30:43.880 Of course not.

00:30:45.140 And that's one of the reasons why the attack on southern Israel on October 7th was so barbaric.

00:30:50.520 It deliberately killed children.

00:30:52.800 But I also know that in every war since the beginning of time, there are civilian casualties,

00:30:57.900 including, unfortunately, from time to time, children.

00:31:02.060 Now, the laws of war say that you must minimize damage to civilians.

00:31:06.620 You must minimize civilian casualties.

00:31:08.820 So that would be my answer to the question.

00:31:11.020 But that question doesn't really fit to the freighted preamble.

00:31:15.040 And I just didn't want him to subject my answer to his creative editing because I could feel he and especially his cameraman were getting a bit agitated.

00:31:24.380 But if you want to know my view, I think that no child should be killed ever, either on purpose or by accident.

00:31:30.840 I think Hamas is the terrorist group that deliberately targets Israeli civilians and that deliberately hides behind Palestinian civilians. 0.59

00:31:37.880 I think Israel is the country that does its best to stop terror attacks against its civilians, including with the Iron Dome anti-rocket system,

00:31:47.400 and that actually warns civilian areas in advance an attack is coming by dropping leaflets, by announcing in advance where an attack will be made.

00:31:57.400 In recent days, we saw that the major hospital in Gaza, the Al-Shifa hospital, underneath it is the command bunker for the terrorists. 0.84

00:32:09.680 They literally put their command bunker under a hospital, knowing that Israel would be reluctant to strike it.

00:32:16.220 So that's my long answer.

00:32:17.540 Of course, I'm against children being killed, and I'm especially against children being killed on purpose.

00:32:22.760 But I also know that in wars, sometimes civilians are collateral damage, and that is a tragedy.

00:32:28.900 And that's why there must be peace in Israel.

00:32:31.440 But simply invoking a ceasefire, which existed on October 7th, it would be like on the day after Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941,

00:32:41.840 if Japan said, hey, ceasefire now, guys.

00:32:44.300 Or if the day after 9-11 on 9-12, if Osama bin Laden had said, hey, guys, ceasefire.

00:32:50.360 That's not really how it works.

00:32:52.980 But I didn't want to have his deceptive editing.

00:32:55.520 So that's my very long answer.

00:32:57.040 Not that you didn't know it.

00:32:59.160 But as you can see, things were starting to get a little bit agitated there.

00:33:03.240 And I just didn't want to stick around.

00:33:05.880 And he was getting a little bit angry, and his cameraman was getting a little bit insulting.

00:33:10.460 And then it was like a switch was flipped because a number of people were watching.

00:33:16.060 And by the way, I was very polite throughout.

00:33:18.240 Of course I was polite.

00:33:19.460 But I just want to point out the helicopter above there, it looks like, oh, and I just heard something that sounded like a firecracker.

00:33:31.120 I'm thinking that that's where the protest, we saw it march across that bridge.

00:33:36.620 In fact, you can still see some of it on the bridge between the Sphinx and the obelisk.

00:33:41.580 So I imagine that helicopter overhead is where the protest is now.

00:33:48.320 I just wanted to explain it and react to the noise.

00:33:51.020 But back to the story.

00:33:53.460 So I was talking with Ahmed, and it was degenerating, and his cameraman was insulting me.

00:33:59.380 And so I basically was done.

00:34:01.180 And people were watching from a distance, and it was like a switch was flipped.

00:34:07.340 And they suddenly started screaming at me, get out, get out.

00:34:12.060 This is not for you.

00:34:13.220 It was like they pressed play on a message track, and they went into hysterical mode.

00:34:22.480 Let me show you how some of it was.

00:34:24.180 And I want to let you know that none of the people you're about to see, I didn't talk to any of them other than Ahmed.

00:34:30.840 I didn't go up to any of them.

00:34:32.720 They came to me and started shrieking.

00:34:34.960 Take a quick look at this.

00:34:36.040 Do you want to talk a little bit?

00:34:39.200 If you have kids, everyone has kids.

00:34:41.440 If it was only about the kids, stop kids being bombed, it would never happen. 0.95

00:34:48.020 But because they're Palestinian, because they're Muslim, they don't care. 1.00

00:34:51.800 How about other places?

00:34:53.200 Free Palestine.

00:34:54.260 Free Palestine.

00:34:55.220 We don't care.

00:34:56.040 Just the kids.

00:34:57.840 Just the kids.

00:34:59.520 It's the kids.

00:35:00.260 As the conversation was made initially, may I ask you?

00:35:02.500 Do you want to turn back?

00:35:04.080 Because you're going to get out of here.

00:35:05.340 Get out.

00:35:05.720 Get out.

00:35:06.360 Why should I get out?

00:35:07.560 Because why are you here?

00:35:09.180 Why are you here?

00:35:10.020 Why are you bothering people fighting for people that are getting killed?

00:35:14.560 50% of Gaza is children.

00:35:17.000 We're fighting for their rights.

00:35:18.540 So why are you bothering us while we're crying?

00:35:21.320 We're mourning.

00:35:22.240 We're mourning children.

00:35:23.800 And you're bothering us while we're mourning children.

00:35:26.500 Stop bothering us while we're mourning the kids of Gaza. 1.00

00:35:29.080 Let us do a process and mourn.

00:35:31.240 We've been crying.

00:35:32.060 We haven't slept.

00:35:33.080 And your hair.

00:35:33.860 Why are you here?

00:35:34.600 Get out of here.

00:35:38.560 Just the five years that Hamas started it. 0.96

00:35:41.660 Okay, and then look what you're doing.

00:35:42.860 For the 7th.

00:35:43.640 What happened to God?

00:35:44.520 40 babies.

00:35:45.020 40 babies.

00:35:46.200 We must be calmly.

00:35:47.660 And there's this.

00:35:48.620 15 years.

00:35:49.660 Enough.

00:35:50.160 Enough.

00:35:51.060 Enough.

00:35:51.820 Just leave.

00:35:52.480 I've been to Gaza.

00:35:53.700 I'm a doctor.

00:35:54.440 I went to Gaza.

00:35:55.320 This is Rebel News today.

00:35:56.720 Speaking on behalf of their channel.

00:36:00.360 Maybe just ask one question.

00:36:01.580 What are your views on the Israeli bombardment of Gaza?

00:36:04.000 Can we have your one singular view, please?

00:36:05.540 Yeah, let's hear yours.

00:36:06.620 Well, I'm here to understand what the protest is about.

00:36:10.580 Obfuscation.

00:36:11.300 You can never criticize.

00:36:12.220 Just see yourself out.

00:36:13.460 See yourself out.

00:36:15.380 If you don't know what it's for, see yourself out.

00:36:17.560 You know, we came here.

00:36:19.000 We have hurt our, our, we are crying inside the house.

00:36:23.320 We came here.

00:36:24.100 Me, me.

00:36:24.980 You know, it's not fair.

00:36:26.040 It's not fair.

00:36:27.200 The world is ignored.

00:36:30.060 Why?

00:36:30.800 Why?

00:36:31.280 Let me just say, I've been to Gaza.

00:36:33.060 I'm a medic.

00:36:33.880 I went before this all happened.

00:36:35.620 I saw a child get shot by the IDF.

00:36:37.940 The IDF stopped us with our ambulances to get to the child.

00:36:42.660 It was atrocious before this, and now it's even more worse.

00:36:45.980 I'm banned from Israel because they, they, they, they took my details and said, no, you're

00:36:50.700 not coming back as a medic to help the Gazans.

00:36:52.920 So, just go away, please.

00:36:55.660 Do you condemn the killing of children in Gaza?

00:36:59.540 Do you condemn the children?

00:36:59.980 Look at the reporter.

00:37:00.980 Look at the reporter.

00:37:01.900 MashaAllah.

00:37:02.400 Yes, you are so good.

00:37:03.280 Do you, do you condemn the killing of the children in Gaza, Mr. Reporter?

00:37:07.740 I'm, I'm here to ask questions about the protest, and you've already attacked me and insulted

00:37:12.340 me.

00:37:12.640 I haven't insulted you.

00:37:14.520 You both have, actually.

00:37:15.940 You can't answer the question.

00:37:16.820 Take care, fellas.

00:37:17.540 Okay, you have a good time.

00:37:18.300 Go away.

00:37:19.760 Go away.

00:37:20.500 Go away.

00:37:22.260 Go away.

00:37:23.900 I'm glad it was not packed.

00:37:26.240 I'm glad that there were some police, actually most of the police had gone by then, but it

00:37:30.560 showed me the false face.

00:37:33.340 I spoke to a number of people who were putting their best face forward.

00:37:36.660 They didn't know who Rebel News was, and they just wanted to look good to the cameras.

00:37:40.520 It took me a while to get that one guy, Khaled, if I'm getting his name right, to say, no,

00:37:47.940 no, I'm not going to call Hamas terrorists.

00:37:50.020 It took me a few minutes to get to that.

00:37:51.680 I think what I learned from that is that the pro-Hamas community in London, some of them

00:38:02.020 can control themselves and know that if they show exactly what they believe, they'll freak

00:38:09.300 out a lot of people.

00:38:10.280 If they show what they mean by from the river to the sea, that that means the extermination 0.99

00:38:16.320 of all Jews.

00:38:17.260 If they show what they mean by intifada revolution, intifada, basically the Arabic word for pogrom,

00:38:23.140 which meant the Russian-style anti-Semitic riot.

00:38:26.620 If they show these things to the media, people will recoil because there are still enough Brits 0.54

00:38:32.300 of goodwill and good faith who don't like what they see on the streets.

00:38:35.980 It was interesting to me that that mask fell in a heartbeat and the rage and the dramatic

00:38:44.760 acting came out.

00:38:47.220 And I'm just glad that happened when things had dispersed rather than when it was cheek

00:38:52.380 and by jowl at the beginning of the protest.

00:38:55.600 Anyways, that's my report for today.

00:38:57.920 I'm glad I was here.

00:38:59.700 The UK has an enormous problem.

00:39:02.600 We see it starting to grow in Canada, too, where there have been some protests of a thousand

00:39:09.840 or even several thousand.

00:39:11.620 But it is a fact that 100,000 people marched here a week ago and surely tens of thousands

00:39:18.900 marched today.

00:39:20.420 The UK has an enormous problem.

00:39:23.040 Even if only a fraction of the Muslim population is extreme, and even if only a fraction of

00:39:30.060 that does anything about it, the sheer numbers of mass immigration without any cultural vetting,

00:39:37.420 without any denazification, so to speak, I think this country has a problem.

00:39:43.100 The problem for the UK is not in Gaza.

00:39:46.320 It's not in the Middle East. 0.98

00:39:47.720 First, the problems in London.

00:40:01.280 I'm here in London, where I was attending one of the large pro-Hamas rallies.

00:40:05.660 We've been covering the war between Hamas and Israel very carefully.

00:40:08.900 To see all of our coverage on the subject and to chip in to help crowdfund our journalism,

00:40:13.200 go to thetruthaboutthewar.com.

Rebel News Podcast - October 31, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Here's what protesters had to say at London's Pro-Hamas rally

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript