Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Ireland's war on free speech — and the outlet that's fighting back

00:00:00.000 Tonight, perhaps the most terrifying plan for censorship I've heard yet.

00:00:19.420 We're fighting for freedom! 0.99

00:00:22.580 Shame on you, you censorious thug! 0.97

00:00:30.000 Ireland is a country of about 5 million souls, and it has, I think, a disproportionate number 1.00

00:00:41.020 of people who use the English language as a weapon.

00:00:46.000 Some of my favorite poets are Irish.

00:00:48.380 I think of Yeats and his incredible poem, The Second Coming, you know the one where he

00:00:53.860 talks about the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

00:01:01.220 I think of that phrase a lot when I think of, well, for example, the pandemic, that the

00:01:05.980 worst people among us were motivated by the best were, well, they lacked all conviction.

00:01:11.440 I just can't imagine any of the hundreds of Irish poets and playwrights and lyricists and

00:01:20.500 musicians.

00:01:21.180 I think of Sinead O'Connor.

00:01:23.560 I think of so many artists who marshal the English language in a way that is prickly.

00:01:30.660 I think there's something about the Irish personality.

00:01:32.780 And then for Ireland's government to say, we are now going to crack down on speech that

00:01:40.960 we, the politicians, find undesirable, I can't think of anything more un-Irish than that. 1.00

00:01:51.000 That's my view sitting over on this side of the pond.

00:01:53.700 But I have started to follow a news source in Ireland very closely.

00:01:57.620 In fact, I've become a subscriber to them.

00:01:59.940 I'm a big fan.

00:02:01.160 In some ways, they remind me of what Rebel News is doing here in Canada.

00:02:05.640 The name of the organization, we've interviewed one or two of their reporters before, it's

00:02:08.720 called GRIPT, G-R-I-P-T. 0.82

00:02:12.160 I don't know exactly what it means, but that's the name, GRIPT.ie.

00:02:17.820 And they are firing on all pistons.

00:02:21.220 And one of the big projects they do is talk about the war on free speech in Ireland.

00:02:27.260 Joining us now from Dublin City is Ben Scallon, one of the reporters at GRIPT.ie.

00:02:34.940 He joins us now via Skype.

00:02:36.740 Ben, great to meet you.

00:02:38.320 I just, I've never been to Ireland other than passing through the airport.

00:02:41.820 But I, the idea of censorship and Ireland, that's like oil and water to me.

00:02:46.940 I just, I just can't imagine any self-respecting Irishman believes that someone else should tell 1.00

00:02:53.180 them what they can or can't hear, say or do.

00:02:55.980 Am I wrong on that?

00:02:56.960 Have I misunderstood the Irish culture?

00:02:59.400 No, you're absolutely right about that.

00:03:02.700 I mean, there's been a lot of laws that have been drafted and either passed or presented

00:03:08.740 for imminent passage by the government in the last couple of years in relation to censorship,

00:03:15.960 be it stamping out so-called misinformation and disinformation or so-called hate speech.

00:03:22.180 And there's really no evidence been provided by the government that there's any public outcry

00:03:27.740 for this, in fact, quite the opposite.

00:03:29.580 All of the polling and their own public consultations, I think you guys might call it a comment period

00:03:35.240 in North America, all of the evidence we have available shows that the public are overwhelmingly

00:03:40.680 opposed to this stuff and yet they're driving ahead with it anyway.

00:03:43.980 So it's very inexplicable, at least insofar as what you would expect a politician to do,

00:03:50.160 which is to pursue, you know, one of the interesting things is people always say,

00:03:54.500 oh, sure, politicians, they're only in it for the votes.

00:03:56.820 They only do what makes them popular.

00:03:59.260 It seems like the Irish government is determined to do everything that makes it unpopular and

00:04:03.420 do the exact opposite of what the general public is actually asking it to do.

00:04:07.640 You know, I just got back from New Zealand, which in some ways is similar to Ireland.

00:04:12.720 Hear me out.

00:04:13.420 I mean, you might be thinking, what on earth could those two countries have in common?

00:04:17.140 Well, they're about the same size in terms of population.

00:04:20.160 They're both led, in the case of Jacinda Ardern, who just finished as the prime minister down 0.56

00:04:26.900 there.

00:04:27.680 And if I'm not mistaken, if I'm pronouncing it right, Leo Varadkar in Ireland, both are

00:04:32.980 globalist world economic forum, young leaders.

00:04:36.880 And both of them use identical language about misinformation and malinformation.

00:04:44.280 I feel like I'm watching.

00:04:45.980 And then I suppose Trudeau, you could throw him in there.

00:04:47.820 I feel like I'm watching three triplets who are doing this as part of some higher ideological

00:04:54.900 calling.

00:04:55.840 There's no demand in any of the three countries, Canada, Ireland, or New Zealand for censorship.

00:05:00.740 In fact, I've never heard of any country in history call out for censorship.

00:05:05.040 But I feel like the three leaders I've just mentioned are sort of cut from the same cloth.

00:05:10.400 And this is their mission to enlighten their country by censoring it.

00:05:15.360 What do you think of my analogy?

00:05:16.780 And did I get the Irish leader's name right?

00:05:20.340 Yeah, Leo Varadkar.

00:05:21.360 Absolutely.

00:05:21.900 You did surprisingly well there.

00:05:23.720 Yeah, I think that it's kind of amazing the uniformity of governments across the Western

00:05:31.740 world at this point and how all of these unrelated politicians are pushing almost identical policies

00:05:37.740 using almost identical language at the exact same time.

00:05:41.560 I mean, we've done many compilations on GRIFT.

00:05:44.260 I think you guys probably do similar stuff in Canada and in the United States and other

00:05:49.300 places where we'll cut together compilations of politicians from different political parties,

00:05:56.620 parties who ostensibly oppose one another, all using the exact same language.

00:06:03.160 Like, for example, during the Ukrainian refugee crisis that's going on in Europe at the minute,

00:06:08.740 we've taken in an absolutely alarming amount of asylum seekers from abroad, from all over

00:06:14.380 the world.

00:06:14.820 Some towns and villages up and down the west coast of Ireland have literally had their

00:06:19.600 populations more than doubled overnight, where the town will have a population of 800

00:06:25.020 and suddenly there's a thousand asylum seekers there.

00:06:28.180 You know, it's these kinds of numbers.

00:06:30.420 And when justifying the policy, politicians from across the political spectrum all have said

00:06:35.920 on loop like a beating drum that we need to abide by our international obligations.

00:06:41.360 You know, it's our international obligations that have required us to take in all of these

00:06:46.300 people and so on.

00:06:47.360 And they all use the exact same word.

00:06:49.660 So I don't know what to make of that or what to infer from that.

00:06:53.040 I think if anything, it just shows the lack of imagination.

00:06:56.920 If you want to put it in a, you know, the most benign terms possible, that they are chronically

00:07:02.880 short on new ideas that that might be the culprit.

00:07:06.300 Well, I think that is too benign an explanation.

00:07:09.000 Reminds me of when all the leaders around the world on cue started using the phrase build

00:07:13.340 back better.

00:07:14.940 It was bizarre to see that that phrase just emanating from everywhere as if everyone just

00:07:20.300 got the same central memo.

00:07:22.060 I have a theory that, of course, there are local democracies and local parliaments and

00:07:27.080 congresses.

00:07:28.060 But there is no denying that these masters of the universe do gather together without the

00:07:33.680 same scrutiny and disclosure that they have in their national parliaments in Davos, at

00:07:38.980 the UN, at other supranational meetings.

00:07:41.800 And there are some dissenters.

00:07:43.020 Trump was the biggest dissenter.

00:07:45.300 But, you know, the Jacinda Ardern's, the Leo Varadkar's, the Justin Trudeau's, they hammer

00:07:50.040 it out amongst themselves.

00:07:52.020 And without any opposition, without any disclosure of who's there, who's lobbying.

00:07:56.720 And then they go back to their lowly countries where the peasants don't like it. 0.99

00:08:01.180 They don't know what's good for them.

00:08:02.740 I think it's identical how Leo Varadkar has pushed these things in Ireland and Justin Trudeau

00:08:07.520 has in Canada.

00:08:08.480 But listen, all of this is just a preamble.

00:08:11.260 I want to show you.

00:08:13.460 I want to show some comments by your.

00:08:17.300 These, this is from the Electoral Commission, if I'm not mistaken, including a member of

00:08:24.140 the Irish Supreme Court.

00:08:26.820 I found this absolutely terrifying.

00:08:29.500 You were asking questions about how their Electoral Commission is now arrogating unto

00:08:34.100 itself the power to censor the debate during an election.

00:08:38.380 Why don't you set this clip up for us?

00:08:40.020 And I want to play a few minutes of it because it's astonishing to me.

00:08:45.520 Some of the phrases.

00:08:46.260 Give us one minute.

00:08:47.360 Where was this?

00:08:48.200 When was this?

00:08:49.380 Who are these people?

00:08:50.300 And then we'll play the clip.

00:08:52.500 So, yeah, the Electoral Commission was just established in February of this year, and

00:08:57.720 it was set up by the government.

00:08:59.520 And it has a load of different functions that are most of which are mundane.

00:09:04.680 So it'll be things like redrawing new constituency boundaries as the population changes and,

00:09:10.640 you know, getting people on the electoral register.

00:09:12.400 Just kind of run of the mill, logistical stuff, nothing too controversial.

00:09:16.260 But one of their functions is also to regulate misinformation and disinformation during election

00:09:23.640 time.

00:09:24.280 And so they will have the legal power.

00:09:26.600 They do have the legal power to, if you post something during a campaign, let's say,

00:09:32.000 when you're running for public office, they can order Twitter.

00:09:34.720 They can order Facebook.

00:09:35.660 They can order any publication they want to take it down and correct the quote-unquote error

00:09:41.000 if that is indeed what they determine it to be.

00:09:44.300 Now, of course, as any sensible person knows, there is no possible way to determine in an

00:09:51.200 objective way what is true and what is false.

00:09:53.720 It's, you know, these kinds of things are inevitably going to end up just being a matter of opinion.

00:09:59.440 And we've seen that so many times over the last couple of years.

00:10:02.600 I mean, COVID is the most prime example of that, where how many times did the establishment say that X was the truth?

00:10:12.200 And then it turns out it was the exact opposite.

00:10:14.460 And things that had been labeled as so-called misinformation turned out to be absolutely correct,

00:10:19.380 like the Wuhan lab leak theory, just to pull one example out of the hat.

00:10:23.920 So this kind of thing is absolutely just waiting to be abused.

00:10:30.940 And, I mean, it hasn't been in force yet for an Irish election.

00:10:34.660 We've got a local election coming up next year.

00:10:37.200 So it'll be very interesting to see how it plays out.

00:10:39.900 But that's basically who this group are, and that's their modus operandi going forward.

00:10:45.260 All right, we're talking to Ben Scallon.

00:10:47.000 And here's the question he put to these high priests of the ultimate truth.

00:10:51.280 Now, by the way, Ben, I know that you believe that there are some objective truths,

00:10:55.760 especially if we were talking about things like mathematics.

00:10:58.180 Two plus two is four.

00:10:59.180 There's no other way around it.

00:11:00.600 But when we're talking about political differences of opinion,

00:11:04.360 that's the reason we have an election,

00:11:06.160 because we don't all agree on what the truth is.

00:11:08.380 The thought that these commissioners would be the arbiters, it's terrifying.

00:11:12.380 Here, enough from me.

00:11:13.300 Let's watch the clip.

00:11:14.200 Our work is focused on the protection enhancement of democracy in the broad sense.

00:11:20.660 And the main function purpose is so that we ensure that people have trust

00:11:26.060 and continue to have trust in the election system, our democratic system generally.

00:11:32.440 Mr. O'Leary, of course, one of your electoral commission's purposes

00:11:35.140 is shutting down alleged disinformation at election time.

00:11:38.300 And in June of this year, you told the media that the scale of disinformation

00:11:41.240 around elections is, quote, enormous.

00:11:43.420 I'm just wondering if you could give an example of disinformation

00:11:46.000 that was spread during an Irish election that materially harmed that election in some way.

00:11:50.300 Okay, Ben, we're here to talk about the constituency review, but I'll make a brief remark,

00:11:56.520 and we will return to this subject into the future.

00:11:59.640 As you know, for anyone who heard me speak in June, what I actually said was having,

00:12:07.860 we spent 20 minutes with a panel of people who gave many, many examples of electoral

00:12:12.800 misinformation and disinformation.

00:12:14.920 And what I actually said was, as well, as you have heard from the panel, the scale of

00:12:19.400 this challenge is enormous.

00:12:21.140 The commission was established in February, and our job is to look forward.

00:12:25.180 But we can't ignore the fact that there is weighty international evidence that electoral

00:12:32.040 misinformation, disinformation carries on online in a survey, or the research that was

00:12:39.400 done between 2016 and 2021.

00:12:43.260 53 countries were examined.

00:12:48.240 And in 92% of those cases, there was found to be examples of misinformation, disinformation.

00:12:54.900 Ireland wasn't one of those countries, but I think there is no reason to assume that we'll

00:12:59.580 be exempt from this into the future as well.

00:13:02.840 We're really looking forward to getting stuck into this part of our brief, and we will be

00:13:08.040 speaking to you all about our approach to misinformation and disinformation as we get to

00:13:14.580 grips with the subject in the autumn.

00:13:16.360 Do you have a kind of a specific criteria for how you would determine whether something is

00:13:21.180 true or false?

00:13:21.960 Like if you're presented with a piece of information, how do you distinguish something

00:13:25.100 that's disinformation as opposed to just a difference of opinion, let's say?

00:13:29.580 Well, they're defined very clearly in the legislation, Ben.

00:13:33.940 So if you go back and have a look at how they are both defined, that's the standard of which

00:13:38.440 the commission, or me as chief executive, will make a determination in that regard.

00:13:42.680 I should say to those of you who haven't read the very long Electoral Act, that we have very

00:13:48.540 extensive powers to, A, research the general topic of information and the way in which advertising

00:13:56.840 happens around elections.

00:13:58.200 But also we have powers to require the correction or removal of information we believe to be

00:14:05.660 incorrect.

00:14:06.800 And they are very extensive powers, not found in fact in that many other European countries.

00:14:12.620 We're all going to have to become philosophers in a sense.

00:14:16.080 We're all going to have to learn how to test truth.

00:14:20.380 And the commission is going to have to learn, A, what the tools are and how to explain them

00:14:26.060 and how to teach them, really.

00:14:27.720 But we're also going to have to deal with the balance between the right of freedom of expression

00:14:33.180 on the one hand, and on the other hand, the right of persons not to be misinformed.

00:14:39.380 It will be a difficult exercise, but it's fundamental to the protection of democracy.

00:14:45.720 Absolutely fundamental.

00:14:47.200 And it's regarded as such by all international bodies, I think.

00:14:50.780 OK.

00:14:51.380 We have Adam.

00:14:52.920 I don't think I've seen a scarier three minutes in my life.

00:14:55.940 So many strange things.

00:14:57.340 It's an enormous problem, Ben.

00:14:59.420 Such an enormous problem, he can't think of one example.

00:15:02.080 There are studies in other countries of which Ireland was not one.

00:15:06.900 I think the worst part was when your Supreme Court judge there was saying we're all going

00:15:12.560 to have to become philosophers.

00:15:14.000 We have an enormous power to determine the truth.

00:15:16.680 Well, but that's not quite true, because what I think and what you think as philosophers

00:15:20.500 doesn't count.

00:15:21.260 It's just what she thinks.

00:15:22.820 Imagine a government agency saying we have an enormous power, and the law sets out how

00:15:28.400 to find the truth.

00:15:29.340 Oh, that's all we have to do is write down a law, and then we can all just know the truth,

00:15:34.720 because it's right there in the law, Ben, don't you know?

00:15:37.360 Why are you making trouble, Ben?

00:15:39.220 She says at once that this is an almost unique legislation, and she says everyone's doing

00:15:46.160 it, and we're going to find out all together in this messy way.

00:15:51.040 I find that terrifying.

00:15:54.160 I'm glad that Gript is on the case.

00:15:57.680 That's your media outlet.

00:15:59.600 What about the rest of Ireland?

00:16:00.900 Is this just, oh, okay, that's how it is, or are Irish people standing up?

00:16:06.000 I'm really confused by the fact that the media has not really even bothered to inquire about

00:16:13.280 some of this stuff.

00:16:14.540 In fact, we have this hate speech bill, which is coming down the tracks.

00:16:19.160 It's not in effect yet.

00:16:20.400 The government is yet to pass it, but it could really go either way at this point.

00:16:24.480 There is a substantial amount of backlash from the general public.

00:16:27.220 And would you believe that one of our biggest newspapers was actually writing submissions

00:16:32.680 to the government, urging them to implement it?

00:16:35.320 They were on the side of the censorship law, which to me, if you're a journalist who speaks

00:16:41.500 and thinks for a living, and that's your job, words, or your profession, then you supporting

00:16:47.040 a hate speech law is a bit like a butcher supporting a ban on meat.

00:16:51.580 You're literally shooting yourself in the foot, even aside from the moral questions that that

00:16:58.060 would raise as to, is it right for the government to be regulating what people can say and think?

00:17:02.640 That's all a separate issue.

00:17:03.960 Just from a self-preservation perspective, you would expect the media to be leading the

00:17:08.860 charge against this thing.

00:17:10.200 But at this press event, which just took place recently, I was the only journalist in the

00:17:16.560 room who asked that question.

00:17:17.800 And I don't think that's because I'm special or I'm Superman.

00:17:20.200 I just think there's a critical dereliction of duty on the part of the press here.

00:17:25.220 I mean, one of the things that the CEO of the organization said was, he goes, oh, yeah,

00:17:31.160 well, there was a study done and about 50-something countries were examined during the course of

00:17:37.160 this research, and they found that there was misinformation during their election.

00:17:41.360 OK, well, first of all, what are the 50 countries?

00:17:44.500 I mean, there's hundreds of countries in the world, so that's not meaningful in and of itself

00:17:48.200 if these are all in parts of the world where democracy is not particularly their strong

00:17:53.380 suit, let's say.

00:17:54.500 And also, what kind of disinformation, what impact did it have?

00:17:58.460 Like, you know, every single election in the history of humanity has had somebody talking

00:18:03.180 nonsense and telling lies and making stuff up.

00:18:06.540 That's a part of politics.

00:18:08.180 It's a very unfortunate part of politics.

00:18:09.980 But we expect that from politicians.

00:18:13.380 What I would want to know is, did any of this disinformation actually have a tangible impact

00:18:19.700 on any election?

00:18:20.560 Can you show me an election in the Western world that was won on the basis of lies?

00:18:25.240 I mean, if anything, you could say that, for example, here in Ireland, we have a coalition

00:18:30.360 government of several different political parties.

00:18:32.960 And one of the parties, the leader of this party, said he would under no circumstances

00:18:39.040 go into coalition with this other group.

00:18:42.620 And then he did exactly that as soon as he was elected.

00:18:44.900 He said that literally a couple of weeks before the election.

00:18:47.400 So I'd like to know, does that count as electoral misinformation?

00:18:50.540 I mean, there's probably people who voted for him and his party on the basis of that promise,

00:18:55.100 which didn't even last a few weeks after everybody's votes had been cast.

00:18:59.760 But when I asked the electoral commission via email, would something like that count as

00:19:04.140 misinformation, they refused to say, which I think kind of says it all as to what sort

00:19:08.700 of game they're playing here.

00:19:10.160 Well, every single politician deals in misinformation because every single politician does not have

00:19:17.780 all of the information and has an opinion and makes a conclusion, just like every other

00:19:22.700 human being.

00:19:23.760 Every human being gets things wrong.

00:19:26.440 Sometimes it's deliberate.

00:19:29.680 Sometimes it's accidental.

00:19:32.500 The idea and that and the most astonishing thing was the judge there, that lady who said,

00:19:39.120 we have enormous power.

00:19:40.860 We're all going to have to become philosophers.

00:19:43.300 She was embracing her role as the person to whom all Irish people would delegate their faculties.

00:19:51.740 The whole point of getting it out of the hands of experts and giving it back to the people

00:19:57.020 is because the whole system, including the judge, as if she has some unique insight into humanity,

00:20:05.520 as if she has some unique brain and heart and moral code and scientific knowledge that no other 0.98

00:20:13.040 people have, that she has more wisdom than the wisdom of the people.

00:20:17.280 I'm just blown away by this, but I got a question for you.

00:20:20.720 I was jealous of your ability to put those questions because in Canada, journalists like

00:20:27.540 you, and there are a handful of them.

00:20:29.180 I think some of them work at Rebel News are simply no longer allowed to attend government

00:20:34.280 press conferences because the questions you asked, you asked them very politely and they

00:20:39.040 were not unfair.

00:20:40.300 They were not gotcha questions.

00:20:41.720 I think they were good, basic questions.

00:20:45.600 Over here, those questions would either yield complete fog, like a fog machine with just

00:20:52.660 endless, meaningless word salad.

00:20:55.880 That would probably be it.

00:20:57.260 And if someone kept asking prickly questions, they would find themselves disinvited to press

00:21:02.660 conferences.

00:21:03.600 You're not the first gripped journalist I've seen put really good questions to power.

00:21:09.940 I don't want to tempt fate by asking, but how is it that you're allowed to do that?

00:21:15.880 Because in Canada, you're not.

00:21:18.200 Well, we joined last year the Press Council of Ireland, which is like a big kind of media

00:21:24.060 representative body.

00:21:25.880 And so that gave sort of a strength in numbers, I think, that while the government isn't obliged

00:21:31.920 by law to let us attend press conferences, if they wanted to, they could disinvite us tomorrow.

00:21:36.440 I think that it would be very difficult for them and it would cause more problems than

00:21:41.740 it's probably worth.

00:21:42.700 I think they've probably made a calculation and said, look, it's better, it's less dramatic

00:21:47.360 if we just let them do their thing and, you know, grin and bear it.

00:21:50.700 That's my suspicion anyway.

00:21:53.160 And I think that, you know, obviously being polite, being respectful, I always shake ministers'

00:21:58.800 hands, refer to them by their proper title and so on.

00:22:01.740 Make sure to comport myself with decorum, that kind of thing is, of course, I don't know

00:22:07.840 how far that would necessarily get in Canada.

00:22:09.600 Maybe you guys are a little bit more, as in the government, are a little bit more capricious.

00:22:15.100 But at least here, my thinking is, obviously, one, you want to be a polite person in general,

00:22:19.800 but two, you don't want to give them any excuse that they could say, oh, well, we're kicking

00:22:23.660 him out because he's belligerent, not because we don't like his questions, you know, whereas

00:22:27.780 now it could only be because they're not happy with the line of questioning, because

00:22:31.680 I'm never anything civil.

00:22:33.360 Well, Ben, I'll tell you, the actual reason we're kept out of Parliament is because access

00:22:39.260 to our Parliament is controlled by the Parliamentary Press Gallery, which is other reporters.

00:22:45.500 And they are granted their power, delegated to them by the Speaker of the House.

00:22:49.860 So it's actually our fellow journalists, our competitors, you might say, who have blocked

00:22:57.520 us in the first instance, and they're given legal immunity because they are under the protection

00:23:03.260 of the government.

00:23:04.200 So it's actually a merger between the politicians and other journalists to keep us out.

00:23:08.880 That's just our situation here in Canada.

00:23:10.820 And I don't mean to be talking about us, but I want to ask you, how do other reporters in

00:23:16.440 Ireland deal with you and your company?

00:23:19.780 And I know this is turning into an interview about Gript, not just your questions, but I'm

00:23:24.000 fascinated by this.

00:23:26.220 Do other journalists, do they harumph when they, oh, there's Gript again? 1.00

00:23:32.240 Do they roll their eyes?

00:23:33.720 Do they say, are they, is there what I call a media party?

00:23:38.520 Is, are the journalists in Ireland part of the regime?

00:23:41.820 Or do they maybe even admire your critical questions?

00:23:47.100 How are you treated by other journalists?

00:23:49.240 I think there's a, there's a couple of them, obviously.

00:23:52.020 I mean, everybody knows that the press skews left in the Western world and that's just the

00:23:56.200 way it is, you know?

00:23:56.940 So I don't think many of them agree with us probably on a broad swath of issues, but I

00:24:03.220 do think there's a level of respect and it wasn't there at the beginning when we first

00:24:07.160 started out.

00:24:07.700 I remember a couple of years ago, we broke a big story and one of the other papers kind

00:24:12.740 of had to give us credit for it because it was just too big to ignore.

00:24:16.660 So they had to say, their way of kind of fobbing us off and dismissing us was saying, the story

00:24:21.800 came from Gript, a right-wing blog, and that was sort of their subtle distos.

00:24:26.240 Nobody talks like that anymore.

00:24:27.860 Now, when I go to these things, they're friendly.

00:24:30.980 I mean, I'll put it this way.

00:24:32.200 The other day we had audio issues with one of our videos and a journalist from another

00:24:36.800 mainstream publication agreed to send me her audio to help me out, you know?

00:24:42.140 So I think it's gotten to the point where they've sort of accepted we're part of the media ecosystem

00:24:49.260 and that even though they might not like it all the time and they don't agree with us on

00:24:53.900 certain issues, the fact of the matter is, you know, we are here to stay and we speak for

00:24:59.300 a large portion of the population.

00:25:01.820 That's sort of what I try to do when I'm at these things is to ask the question that

00:25:06.060 ordinary people on the street who aren't convinced about all of this woke direction that society

00:25:12.840 is going, I want to ask what those people are thinking, you know, because so often those

00:25:17.820 questions just never get asked or addressed by anybody.

00:25:20.300 So I'm trying to be sort of a representative for that section of the public in the actual room.

00:25:26.440 Well, that's such a great report.

00:25:27.900 I'm so glad to hear that.

00:25:29.720 And I hope you remain in the fray, in the arena.

00:25:35.460 I hope you're not ejected from it.

00:25:37.420 I mean, we still manage to do creditable journalism from the outside.

00:25:42.540 In fact, in Canada, like I say, politicians are often fog machines.

00:25:47.240 You can put a great question, but you just hear blather.

00:25:50.960 You know, it's of no use to put a good question because they don't actually answer them.

00:25:55.720 But I'm glad to hear that.

00:25:57.620 And I'm glad that GRIPT is growing and is having a success.

00:26:02.480 I want to close by throwing one more clip.

00:26:05.140 Again, you asking questions.

00:26:07.120 This is a question that Matt Walsh of Daily Wire has perfected.

00:26:11.100 It's a question so simple.

00:26:13.100 A child can get it.

00:26:14.420 But that's the thing. 1.00

00:26:16.780 There's something so stupid only a PhD would believe them. 1.00

00:26:21.180 It's the question, what's a woman? 1.00

00:26:23.520 And here, I want to show your version of it.

00:26:25.400 Take a look.

00:26:26.240 It's appalling as a woman and a woman as a female sports minister that's trying to promote women in sport. 1.00

00:26:32.300 But I think it's just really regrettable.

00:26:36.140 Minister, an article in the Irish Times this week by Pat Leahy outlined some fears within government

00:26:40.560 that the so-called women in the home referendum might raise some uncomfortable questions for politicians. 0.80

00:26:45.800 For example, how do you define a family and what is a woman in the context of the gender debate?

00:26:50.220 So on foot of that article, I'm just wondering, what is a woman in your view?

00:26:53.240 This is something that the government are discussing, Ben.

00:27:00.280 It's very important that we get that wording correct.

00:27:04.140 So in relation to the actual wording of the referendum, I should hope that we'd come to agreement on that wording in the coming weeks.

00:27:11.740 I think it's a really important referendum.

00:27:15.460 It's something that I advocated for when I was chair of the Women's Caucus, that this would lead to a referendum. 0.62

00:27:21.780 But do you have a definition of what you referred earlier to being proud of being a female sport minister

00:27:28.780 and how important it is to promote women in sport and so on? 0.99

00:27:31.540 So I'm just wondering, do you have a personal definition of what a woman means? 0.99

00:27:34.800 I think, you know, the question is not relevant to the referendum itself

00:27:41.820 because as in the issue that is pressing at the minute in relation to the exact wording of a referendum

00:27:46.360 and having the referendum is absolutely essential for us in Ireland.

00:27:52.200 You know, if there's a referendum on a women's issue and if you're the minister of women's sport

00:27:56.680 but you refuse to answer what a woman is, that sort of answers it, doesn't it?

00:28:01.540 I mean, here in Canada, in the United States, you have biological men just crushing female athletes. 0.93

00:28:08.460 And with the approval, in fact, sometimes the support of born women,

00:28:17.380 I think that's an astonishing evasion, but better than some of the attempts we've seen lately to answer that question.

00:28:26.120 What do you make of that?

00:28:27.200 I thought that was quite something.

00:28:28.940 What do you make of that?

00:28:29.740 Yeah, I was kind of amazed by the whole thing because what my follow-up was going to be

00:28:35.460 before her press secretary jumped in and quickly went on to the next person 1.00

00:28:39.540 and said, like, we need to put the kibosh on this right now because he could tell which way it was going.

00:28:44.380 Because the referendum, I'm not going to bore people by going into detail,

00:28:47.360 but long story short, there's a clause in the Irish Constitution which says that, you know,

00:28:52.260 women have a very important role in society as mothers and homemakers. 0.95

00:28:56.780 And so no woman should be forced by economic necessity to have to work, 1.00

00:29:01.980 that the state should support women if they want to stay at home and be a stay-at-home mom,

00:29:06.580 that they should be able to do that.

00:29:08.380 That's basically what it says.

00:29:10.120 And there was a push recently to get rid of this from the Constitution

00:29:13.800 because they say it's sexist and outdated.

00:29:15.800 Basically, the government's position is that it's almost like you're saying,

00:29:20.660 oh, women belong in the kitchen and they should stay home, 1.00

00:29:22.900 which is really not what it's saying if you read the actual text of it.

00:29:26.140 But that's sort of the narrative around it.

00:29:28.600 So naturally enough, if you're going to have a referendum on the role of women in society

00:29:34.520 and what is the proper role that women should fulfill, 1.00

00:29:38.180 you're probably going to want to know what a woman is. 1.00

00:29:40.500 So I thought it would be a pretty reasonable question.

00:29:42.940 And apparently, according to the minister, that's not relevant at all.

00:29:46.860 We're going to have legislation to remove a word from the Constitution

00:29:51.020 without even knowing what that word means.

00:29:52.960 Yeah.

00:29:53.300 I read that Irish Constitution recently when I was going through some of the hate speech laws.

00:29:58.200 And it's quite incredible to see that hardwired right into the basic law of Ireland,

00:30:03.580 the protection for women.

00:30:06.700 And I thought it was actually beautiful and poetic.

00:30:10.240 And I thought it was actually quite Irish.

00:30:13.260 And I really like that.

00:30:14.620 And I don't know, that's something that has to be ripped out, I guess.

00:30:18.440 Ben, what a pleasure to catch up with you.

00:30:19.980 Thanks for letting us keep you so long.

00:30:21.880 I really admire the work you're doing.

00:30:23.880 And as you can see, I'm a super fan of gripped.ie.

00:30:28.080 And folks, if you want a news source, I mean, you might think you have no connection to Ireland.

00:30:32.780 I mean, really, I don't.

00:30:34.400 But the issues they're facing are the same issues we're facing.

00:30:38.220 And the battles they're fighting are the same battles we're fighting.

00:30:41.680 And I really look up to gripped.

00:30:43.720 And I see them having some of the same hallmarks that Rebel News does.

00:30:47.940 I think they're slightly better behaved, which, as we've heard from Ben.

00:30:52.020 Ben, great to meet you.

00:30:53.440 And congratulations on your whole team.

00:30:56.120 And hopefully we'll keep in touch with you.

00:30:57.580 I find this fascinating.

00:30:59.140 And I can hardly wait to see how it ends.

00:31:00.960 So thanks for taking the time with us.

00:31:03.180 Thank you so much, Ezra.

00:31:04.100 Great talking to you.

00:31:04.940 All right.

00:31:05.420 You too.

00:31:05.980 Well, there you have it.

00:31:06.860 Stay with us.

00:31:07.500 More ahead.

00:31:20.000 Well, that's our show for today.

00:31:21.540 What do you think about gripped?

00:31:24.640 I don't even know what that word gripped means.

00:31:26.460 G-R-I-P-T dot I-E. 1.00

00:31:29.440 That's the Irish URL, the Irish domain name.

00:31:35.100 I like that.

00:31:35.900 I want to go over and visit them.

00:31:37.180 I want to find some excuse to go over.

00:31:38.660 They seem like a great team.

00:31:40.540 And they get great access.

00:31:41.980 And they ask great questions.

00:31:43.420 And I really like their work.

00:31:45.100 And they're interested in a lot of the same things we are, including freedom.

00:31:48.380 I enjoyed talking to young Ben there.

00:31:50.600 And he made me chuckle when he said he's been watching me since he was in high school.

00:31:54.320 I don't know.

00:31:54.860 I thought he looked a little more grown up than that.

00:31:56.640 But maybe he's maybe he's pretty young or maybe I'm just getting old.

00:32:00.080 But I like him and I want to do more things with gripped.

00:32:03.080 I want to interview their journalists when they have interesting stories.

00:32:06.100 And maybe there's some way we can cooperate.

00:32:08.040 I don't think we'd ever be in a position where we would have a full-time reporter in Ireland.

00:32:11.700 I just don't think the market's big enough.

00:32:14.260 But maybe we can have some sort of friendly partnership with gripped.

00:32:17.140 I'm just daydreaming out loud.

00:32:18.340 That's all.

00:32:19.620 Well, that's our show for today.

00:32:20.700 Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters.

00:32:25.360 Actually, I'm in Israel when this goes to air.

00:32:27.960 To you at home, good night.

00:32:29.600 And keep fighting for freedom.

00:32:30.660 We'll be right back.

00:32:39.880 We'll be right back.

00:32:42.140 We'll be right back.

00:32:43.980 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - September 01, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Ireland's war on free speech — and the outlet that's fighting back

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