EZRA LEVANT ｜ Liberal MP calls for kidnapping a conservative rival — and Mark Carney is fine with it
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Summary
A liberal MP calls for the kidnapping of a conservative rival, and Mark Carney's fine with it. Ezra Levant is in Georgetown, Ontario, attending an event with the newly installed Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, at the St. George pub.
Transcript
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Tonight, a liberal MP calls for the kidnapping of a conservative rival and Mark Carney's fine with
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it. It's March 31st, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
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Ezra Levant here. I'm in Georgetown in the Halton Hills area. Where is that? About an hour away
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from our office in Toronto. We came here on very short notice. I didn't wear an appropriate winter
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gear, and it's pretty chilly out, but we're here because we were told that Mark Carney, the installed,
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selected prime minister, was having an event at the St. George pub, and indeed it was. We came here,
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and there's a lineup outside. I asked some people questions. Why are you here? Obviously,
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they're Liberal Party stalwarts on the list, who would have been given last-minute notice, just like
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we received. Many of them were severely normal people, very friendly. I asked some of them what
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they liked about Mark Carney. The answers were pretty vague. One or two people said it was his
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command of economics. That's a fair answer. Others said his values, but when I pressed them,
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they couldn't really list any. Some people said voting Liberal was a family tradition.
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Here's some of those friendlier responses to my questions in the lineup outside in the Colts.
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And what's the number one issue? So you're Liberals because that's your tribe and that's
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your tradition, but is there something in particular you like about him? Yeah, economics. I've looked for
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somebody that was competent all along. I like Trudeau because I thought he would listen to experts.
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I like Mark because he is an expert. And how about yourself? And again, it was only a compliment,
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but you did look young enough that maybe you've never voted. Is there a particular issue or is it
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just sort of the family way? I think there are a lot of issues. I think this will probably be the
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most important election. Why is that? I mean, I agree, but maybe we have different reasons. Why do
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you think it's important? I think that with the way the states is going, there's a lack of compassion
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for other people. And I don't think that at this time the leader of the Conservatives feels that
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compassion. I don't think he relates to many Canadians. And so I don't think he feels that
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way. And that's important to me. Last question. And you've been very generous with your time.
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Who do you prefer? Justin Trudeau or Mark Carney?
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Well, I like Mark, I think. For his expertise. I have no problem with Trudeau.
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All right. Well, thanks for talking with me, you guys. Hi. What brings you up today?
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Oh, I came to see Mark Carney. Oh, yeah. Well, fair enough. And
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right here. Are you from town here? No, Campbellville. Oh, yeah. So how long a drive is that?
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Half hour. Okay. And are you a liberal by nature? I have been since the Trudeau years. I was brought
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up as a conservative. Oh, really? So when did you switch? Harper. Oh, so you switched away from
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the Conservatives on Harper? Yeah. So you were a Justin Trudeau gal? I was a Justin Trudeau.
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Yeah. Yeah. Looks like you're almost in, so I don't want to take up too much of your time. But
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if there was one reason other than sort of tradition and habit, one reason you like Mark
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Carney, what would it be? It's to stand up to Trump. That's my big, biggest issue, standing up to
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Trump. Now, Trump tweeted something unusual the other day. He tweeted that he sort of prefers Carney
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being the PM. And I didn't understand that. I didn't believe that. So you think that was like
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disinformation? I had an argument with my neighbor who thinks that that's true. And I don't. I think
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that's just Trump. Trump just throwing it out there to mess up things. But no. So a little
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bit of chaos. Yeah. I don't think that he really wants to deal with Carney. And I think he knows
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that he's got Poliev. He's under his thumb. Yeah. I think Poliev would, I think he'd sell our country off.
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In what way? What's your fear? Thinking he can deal with Trump and make trades on things. I think
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he'd sell off our resources, our water, things like that. My boy here is excited to meet the
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prime minister. Yes, I'm really excited. And why are you excited to meet him? Because I've never had an
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opportunity like this before. And I'm just really excited to meet him. And what will you say to him
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if you meet him? Just welcome to Georgetown. Are you from around here? Yeah. And what are you hoping
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that he does as a prime minister? Just everything that we were asking for. Are you a student in
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school? What grade are you in? I'm in grade six. Oh, yeah. Well, good for you for coming to a political
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event. Is that your dad or your grandpa? Okay. Well, good luck. Thanks for talking with me. Cheers.
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Are you a liberal already? Or are you just checking out the merchandise? I'm a liberal.
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And are you excited about Mark Carney? Yeah. Yeah. What do you like about him?
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He's a banker. He's sensible. You like bankers. That's a first. I never heard that.
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I like his policies, what he's outlined so far. I am here to support him. The liberals are doing
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very good since a long time. They are good for the Canadians. They are good for the people of Canada.
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They take care for them. Even internationally, they take care for everybody. Can I ask what you like
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about Mark Carney? Well, Mark Carney seems to be a pretty nice guy. Like, you know, having a cool head
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and something like, you know, that can benefit Canada from his experience of whatever the education
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he has, whatever the experience he has, like, you know, working with top banks in the world,
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top economists, like, you know. But are you worried about the fact that he's not really connected to
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Canada? I mean, he only came back a few weeks ago. He's been in Europe for 10 years. Do you think
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he really understands the plight of ordinary Canadians? Yeah, but he was always connected with
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the liberal government. Like, you know, he was always there. Like, so it's not like that he's just
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a fresh guy coming into the politics here. Like, you know. So I think so that he will be good for
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Canada. Like, you know. So tell me, are you a liberal by tradition? Or are you just here to check out
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the liberals for the first time? Are you part of the party? No, by tradition. What do you like most
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about Mark Carney? I like his values. Give me one value that you like. I'm not trying to put you on
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the spot. I'm just trying to learn what you like about him. I don't want to impress you if I'm making
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you nervous. He's a good speaker. He's a good speaker. Okay. Well, I had some prickly questions,
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too. And before I get into it, let me tell you the background. There's a liberal member of parliament
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from Markham, which is part of the greater Toronto area. He was actually, he's a Chinese Canadian,
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but he was born in Pakistan. So I guess that makes him a Pakistani Chinese Canadian. I don't know,
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but it won't surprise you to learn that such a man was given a prominent role in the DEI policing
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efforts in the greater Toronto area. He speaks many languages. And of course, he's friendly with
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Pakistani people and Chinese people and hopefully Canadian people. And apparently he served for
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about a quarter century as a cop. And then he ran to be a liberal PM. So far, so normal. But a couple
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of days ago, he said the most astonishing thing in Chinese to a Chinese language news conference in
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the GTA. And he said that he called upon people to kidnap a conservative Chinese Canadian candidate
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who's active in the Hong Kong freedom movement to kidnap this conservative, take him to the Chinese
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consulate where there was a 1 million Hong Kong dollar bounty for him. He didn't say this as a joke.
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He didn't say this lightly. He said this in a deadly serious way in the Chinese language to the
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Chinese language media. Just absolutely shocking. And that's not a fiction or a fantasy. There really
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is a million Hong Kong dollar bounty for that man. And China has been credibly accused of kidnapping
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other Canadians who have a track record of standing up against communist China and in some sort of a
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rendition, taking them back to China. And then there's, of course, the kidnapping of two ethnic
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Canadian people overseas, the two Michaels, Michael Spavor and the other Michael who were kidnapped and held
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for years in China. So for a liberal MP to say, go out there and kidnap my opponent and bring him to the
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Chinese consulate for a million dollars, not a joke, not a spoof, not a riff, a message, a message that does
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two things. First of all, it might actually cause the man to be kidnapped. Second of all, it terrorizes and
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terrifies any Chinese Canadians in Canada who resist and oppose the Chinese Communist Party. And third of
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all, it signals that Mark Carney and the Liberal Party of Canada are in league with the Communist Party
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of China, which we already know because there are 11 MPs in Parliament who were compromised by Chinese
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influence in the last election, according to CSIS. And although Mark Carney has refused to disclose his
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finances, we know from public records that he recently negotiated a $250 million loan from the
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Chinese government that he recently met with Xi Jinping. Mark Carney has said that China is the
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future. China is ambitious. China is responsible. One of the many strengths of China is their perspective,
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the medium-long-term perspective. This is an ambitious G20. It's an ambitious Chinese leadership.
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What we don't know is what holdings Mark Carney still has that make him exposed to Chinese influencer
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power, other than, I suppose, a quarter-billion-dollar loan. Now, incredibly, after ignoring the issue for
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days, the media finally reported on it, the mainstream media, that is. And today, Mark Carney had a press
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availability, but only for raging media. But to their credit, they asked about this atrocious statement
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by Mr. Chang. And let me just remind you, if you need reminding, kidnapping is a crime in Canada,
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one of the most serious crimes. And committing a crime in concert with a foreign power is another
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criminal offense as well. I forget the exact name of it. It was actually a fairly recent law
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passed in the last year or two. So what Mr. Chang did was actually a crime. Here, listen to Mark Carney
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talk about it as if it was some verbal gaffe, as if it was stumbling over a word or getting something
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a little bit wrong, a little bit of a whoopsie. Take a listen. In fact, I'm going to play for you
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about six minutes of Mark Carney making excuses. Here, take a look.
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The comments were deeply offensive. This is a terrible lapse of judgment by Mr. Chang. He has
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apologized for those comments. He has apologized directly now to the person that he mentioned.
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I apologized directly to him yesterday. I've spoken to Mr. Chang as well over the course of the weekend.
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I understand his position. He is a veteran policeman. Mr. Chang is a veteran policeman with more than a
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quarter century of service to his community. 28 years of defending rights in this community.
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And he will continue with his candidacy going forward, having made those apologies very clearly
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to the individual, to the community, and moving forward to CERF.
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I should say the conservative candidate has come out and said apologies is not sufficient. And then
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previous to this, he was speaking with the RCMP about his safety. So I'm just wondering why
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you feel comfortable continuing with a candidate that was parroting conservative, sorry, I should
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say Chinese Communist Party talking points to try and attack a political candidate.
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Look, this is a person of integrity who served this community, his community, as a police, as a senior
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police officer for, as I said, more than a quarter century. He's made a terrible lapse in judgment.
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He's made an apology for that. It's also an individual who has family in Hong Kong. He's under no
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illusions about the situation there, the situation in broader China. He's made those apologies. He's
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made them directly to the individual concerned. He's made them directly to me. He has my confidence.
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It's not just opposition parties calling for Mr. Chang's resignation. It's also at least 13 civil society
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groups. What message are you sending to Canadians who are worried about pressure from China when you
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allow him to stay on? And how can you critically criticize Pierre Palais for his lack of security
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clearance when Mr. Chang is considered a worthy candidate? Well, the first thing I can very
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credibly criticize the leader of the opposition for being at 930 days running and not having his
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security clearance. I will say as well, in the course of my responsibilities, current responsibility,
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I didn't do that. That wasn't me. I did manage to cut the piece of wood second time running.
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Although I was under expert supervision. No, getting back to the serious, these are serious matters.
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So I appreciate the question. But in the course of my responsibilities, Prime Minister, just yesterday,
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I received an additional briefing on foreign interference and potential matters related to that.
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Of course, I can't share any details of that. But it just underscored once again, A, I take my responsibility
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seriously, but the extent to which a leader of the opposition does not and hasn't for more than three years.
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In terms of, but to go back to the specifics of your question, this situation.
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Look, I am deeply offended by those comments. As I said, they're a terrible lapse of judgment.
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I view this as a teachable moment. It underscores the respect with which we treat human rights in this
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country, the differences between Canadian society and other countries. This after all, though, I will go back
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to the character of the individual who made a lapse of judgment. This is someone who has served our
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community, has been on the front line of policing for almost three decades, and has been standing up
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for those rights and has that track record for it. He's made his apology. He made it to the public.
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He made it to the individual concerned, made it directly to me. And he's going to continue with
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I notice multiple GTA area candidates behind you. If you're still standing behind Mr. Chang,
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He has other responsibilities in his writing. We don't have every, we have multiple, but not every
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candidate. Mr. Carney, I'd like to press you a little bit more on Paul Chang. He lives in a writing
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that is 70% diverse, people of color. Half of that are people from Chinese ethnic origin. And of that
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population, about 20% are from mainland China. The question that people from Hong Kong have asked me to
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ask is whether or not you are putting appeal to those voters, those voters who may support the
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policies of China, ahead of the democratic rights and safety of dissidents who have called Canada home,
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and mainly Hong Kong democracy activists who now live in Mr. Chang's writing.
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Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Stand Foursquare for rights, Foursquare for
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our position, our very strong position vis-a-vis China, respect for Canadians and all rights of Canadian
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citizens, irrespective of whether they hold dual citizenship or not, to be absolutely clear. And Mr. Chang
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has long history of service to that community, history of protecting those rights. Mr. Chang is well aware of
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these issues, including having family in Hong Kong. How can he be an effective representative
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for them when they no longer trust him after he said this? The question, as you know, Mr. Carney,
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you know that Canada has executed four Canadians this year. China. You know that there are human rights
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activists in China in detention right now. How can Mr. Chang, how can your party keep him as a candidate,
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knowing this context? Mr. Chang has apologized for his comments. He's a lapse of judgment.
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He's apologized for his comments. He's apologized directly to me. He's apologized directly to the individual.
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He has a long record of service. He's going to continue his candidates.
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Yeah, no, it's not a teachable moment because you're the student who's supposed to learn the
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lesson or maybe you're the teacher in this metaphor. I don't know. But when someone calls for a crime to
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be committed, it's not a teachable moment. It's an arrestable moment. Let me ask you a question.
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If it had been not Paul Chang, liberal MP and candidate, if it had been a trucker in the convoy in 2022,
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who had looked in the camera and said, I want you to kidnap
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and a mayor of Ottawa, or I want you to kidnap an RCMP officer and bring him to me.
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And if they said it seriously to the camera like that, and if they were talking about it in a way
00:20:01.560
that suggested it was possible. And remember, Mr. Chang is a former police officer. That's what's so
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astonishing here. He knew what he was saying was illegal. And he said it with the brazen confidence of a
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man who I suspect has said it many more times than that. For him just to casually say, oh,
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can you kidnap this guy? To say it in Chinese with utter confidence. Do you really think that's the
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first time that Paul Chang has called for the enemies of communist China to be violently treated in
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this country? I simply don't think so. It makes me wonder what he did in his 25 years as a cop.
00:20:38.040
It makes me wonder how many times and how recently he's been on the phone or visited in person the
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Chinese consulate. To know that this particular conservative candidate in Toronto that he called
00:20:50.680
to be kidnapped, to know that there was a bounty against him is such an obscure piece of knowledge.
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Was he briefed on that by the Chinese consulate? Was he working with them? But instead, Mark Carney just
00:21:05.640
says, oh, I was disappointed in him and he apologized and we're moving on from this teachable moment.
00:21:11.160
Well, first of all, Mr. Tay, who was the victim of this proposed kidnapping, has not accepted the apology.
00:21:21.720
And since when do you get to call for a high capital crime and then just say, whoops, I'm sorry.
00:21:29.480
He didn't even say he misspoke. The trouble with what Paul Chang did was that it revealed who he is.
00:21:40.120
It's not actually the words that are the worst part of it. The words are likely a crime.
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But the words reveal who he has been and who he is. He's someone who does China's bidding in Canada,
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not Canada's bidding. He's someone who puts obedience to the Chinese Communist Party ahead of his loyalties
00:22:00.600
to Canada. Mr. Tay, who was the target, it's not about ethnicity. Both men are ethnic Chinese.
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One of them is a Canadian. One of them is an instrument for a foreign country.
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Anyways, I asked a few questions about Mr. Chang. Not surprisingly, the crowd was hostile and didn't
00:22:20.760
have much to say. Here's a taste of that. Do you agree with Mark Carney's decision to
00:22:25.720
allow Paul Chang to stay as a candidate? What do you guys think? Anyone have an opinion on Paul Chang?
00:22:33.720
It's a very serious matter. What do you guys think of Paul Chang staying as a candidate
00:22:40.600
for the Liberals, even though he called for a Conservative to be kidnapped?
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Do you think that's befitting the Liberal Party that you know and love? Are you worried that
00:22:51.960
maybe he's one of the 11 MPs that were compromised by China?
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Is it something to laugh about? You're something to laugh about.
00:23:00.200
Well, I mean, Mark Carney wasn't laughing today. He said it was deplorable. Do you agree?
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Like, why would you laugh about something like that? He called for a rival to be kidnapped and
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hand over to China. Do you think he was joking?
00:23:22.840
All right, you just keep laughing about it. What do you think about Paul Chang getting the green
00:23:27.400
light to be a candidate, even after asking for people to kidnap someone? Don't you think that's
00:23:34.280
How come? Like, how could you not have a comment on the most shocking...
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Okay, I have no comment that I'm going to share with you.
00:23:39.400
Okay, and why is that? Who will you share it with?
00:23:43.560
Maybe my friends, maybe my family, not with Rebel News.
00:23:46.840
But you're coming here to show your support for the party that has endorsed Paul Chang. Don't
00:23:52.360
No, I don't think it's weird. A lot of other people are here too. I find it strange that you guys are
00:23:58.360
Well, I'm here to hear all points of view. That's not weird. It's weird to support someone who believes
00:24:05.480
in kidnapping. Don't you think? Is Mr. Polyev going to get a security clearance? Or where
00:24:10.680
we stand on that? That's a great question. Is that sort of a set off here? If Pierre Polyev gets
00:24:16.040
his security clearance, will you condemn this Chinese agent? Would you do a deal like that?
00:24:23.080
Because if I said that, he would agree, right? I don't know. I don't know why you raised it.
00:24:27.560
So maybe it's like a set off. Because you're asking me silly questions,
00:24:30.360
so I thought I'd ask you one. You really think it's a silly question? That you have someone
00:24:34.040
who's calling for the kid? Could you move on? There's a lot
00:24:36.120
of other people online. Sure. I'm trying to understand
00:24:39.000
the liberal thinking here. And so far, it's very hard.
00:24:43.640
All right. Anybody have some thoughts on Paul Chang? What do you think about Paul
00:24:48.120
Chang and that whole situation? I don't know the situation at all. I'm not familiar with it at all.
00:24:52.040
Well, your leader had... I don't know if you're a liberal, but Mark Carney had a press conference
00:24:56.440
today, and he said it was deplorable, but he's keeping Chang as the candidate, even though he said
00:25:01.240
he wanted people to kidnap his conservative opponent. What do you think of that?
00:25:05.960
I don't know. I'm not... I'm not up on what's going on that way. All I know is Mark Carney is
00:25:14.920
the man for the hour. I voted conservative all of my life, and I'm voting liberal for the first time.
00:25:19.080
What made you flip? Because he's the man of the hour. He knows how to handle money.
00:25:25.160
And also, I'm not very high on Pierre Polyev. To me, he's a barking dog. That's it.
00:25:34.040
And what's the number one issue for you? You said managing money, but would you say Donald Trump
00:25:39.480
or the economy? What's the number one thing for you? Both. The economy and Donald Trump.
00:25:45.880
But you did vote for conservatives in the past? All my life. Really? So when did you switch?
00:25:51.000
Uh, when Carney ran. Wow. You like the guy? Uh, he's the best man for the job, hands down.
00:25:57.640
Well, can I ask you an international question? Because there's a candidate in Markham named Paul
00:26:02.360
Chang for the Liberals, who asked for people to kidnap his conservative opponent and hand him over
00:26:08.360
to the Chinese consulate. And I found that shocking. Did you hear about that?
00:26:12.200
Yeah, sometimes some incidents are happening. They should be dealt properly.
00:26:17.960
And do you think that guy should still continue on as a candidate for the Liberals?
00:26:23.240
Uh, it is up to him. He has to decide it by himself.
00:26:27.000
It feels like, you know, that that would be serving China's interest to kidnap someone.
00:26:33.960
They should dealt a party with the law and the information that I have been denied.
00:26:38.920
Do you feel comfortable? What do you think about the Paul Chang situation? Have you been following that at all?
00:26:52.120
So, I'm continuing with the articles and the news.
00:26:56.840
Fair enough. Well, thanks for talking with me anyways.
00:27:00.280
How about you, boss? Do you have any thoughts on Paul Chang?
00:27:07.000
Do you guys have any opinions on Paul Chang running as a candidate?
00:27:15.480
Yeah, I know that statement that he gave about, it was a little unfortunate.
00:27:22.680
Do you think it was that minor an incident, just like a hiccup or like a verbal typo?
00:27:28.600
Exactly. Like, you know, you would say a nice, nice word, like, you know, a verbal typo.
00:27:33.880
But that was pretty much it, I think. So, like, not serious to be taken it like that.
00:27:38.520
Now, he didn't say it was just a joke. He didn't deny it. I'm worried it represents
00:27:43.880
something deeper. I'm worried he was one of the 11 MPs who were in league with communist China.
00:27:50.680
No, I'm not really. Like, you know, I think so. It was a light moment that probably...
00:27:55.000
Come on. A kidnapping? How's that light? He wasn't joking. He wasn't laughing when he said it.
00:27:59.800
I think so. He was in a, like, it was in a light mood. That's... I should take it like that,
00:28:06.040
I mean, but no one else is taking it like that. The guy who, who he wanted to be kidnapped,
00:28:11.240
he's not laughing. He's, uh, he didn't accept the apology.
00:28:14.840
I, like, you know, I can understand that it's, uh, it's a situation, like,
00:28:19.800
the elections are close by and people are trying to take advantage of anything, like, you know,
00:28:25.720
that comes out of the mouth. But still, like, you know, I would take it light-hearted, like,
00:28:30.280
now. Do you guys have any thoughts about the Paul Chang matter? That's the, the candidate?
00:28:36.600
Not for Rebel News? Why is that? What, what don't you like about Rebel News? I can take it.
00:28:40.680
Why? What? Give, tell me two things we could improve.
00:28:44.280
I'm not, I'm good. You can keep going down the line. I'm good.
00:28:46.920
Come on. You gotta help. You can't say that and then decline my invitation to fix us.
00:28:52.840
Yeah, obviously they're not going to talk about that. They either claim they didn't hear about it
00:28:56.440
or don't have an opinion. Look, what can you say? I mean, what can you say when your party
00:29:01.480
is now known as the Chinese Collusion Party? Not that these liberals care.
00:29:06.360
Anyways, uh, Mark Carney showed up and, uh, he walked by. I thought I would holler out a question. I knew
00:29:12.040
that he either wouldn't hear me or if he heard me, he wouldn't be distracted by it. I wanted to know,
00:29:16.680
did Paul Chang commit a crime by calling for the kidnapping of a Canadian citizen
00:29:25.240
to suit the interests of a foreign nation? Is that a crime? I hollered it a couple times. Here's me
00:29:31.960
projecting. Did Paul Chang commit a crime? Mr. Carney, did Mr. Chang commit a crime? Did Paul
00:29:42.680
Chang commit a crime? Mr. Carney, did Paul Chang commit a crime?
00:29:51.400
I'm just vocalizing. I'm, I'm, I'm projecting. No surprise. I had no answer, but at least I put the
00:29:58.920
question to the air and the, the wall of police who were standing in front of me. Let me give you
00:30:05.080
some final thoughts from the location of the St. George pub. Um, it's a good turnout for an hour's
00:30:14.040
notice. It's not a bad turnout. Mark Carney is learning a little bit to have, to at least fake the
00:30:22.360
common touch. There was a group of people outside here in the cold and he walked through them and he
00:30:28.120
shook their hands and he said, you're the real VIPs. And he spent about five minutes going through the
00:30:33.240
crowd of the people who couldn't make it in. Um, that's a good move for a politician to do.
00:30:39.000
He's still stiff as a board. It's not natural for him to talk to the unwashed masses, but he did it.
00:30:45.400
He's learning. I think Mark Carney is a formidable candidate, not particularly for anything he's done,
00:30:53.880
but because of the way the ground has changed. Donald Trump, Donald Trump has scrambled this
00:31:01.160
election three months ago. It was going to be a shoe in for Pierre Polyev. Now it's all tied up.
00:31:07.960
In fact, many of the polls show that the liberals have an advantage. There's still a month left to
00:31:13.080
turn this around, but for conservatives, they should know they're in a tough battle, not so much against
00:31:19.320
Mark Carney, but against a new landscape that's tilted against the conservatives. At least that's how
00:31:26.040
it fell today. You know what? I'm on the road right now. I got to make my way back to our head office.
00:31:31.720
So I'll sign off from the field. And I had an interview with my friend, Kian Bextie,
00:31:52.600
Well, very exciting news out of Calgary the other day. The election has just begun
00:31:57.080
and its first casualty has happened. I'm talking about the former liberal candidate
00:32:03.000
in Calgary Confederation. His name is Thomas Keeper and he was an MP. It all started to fall apart
00:32:11.000
when our Rebel News alumnus, who's now the boss of Counter Signal and part of Juneau News,
00:32:17.560
he was waiting outside the liberal campaign office for Mr. Thomas Keeper. Take a look at how that went.
00:32:25.320
Mr. Keeper, Thomas. Hi, Thomas. I just have some questions to ask you.
00:32:30.680
We just, we just have some questions to ask you. Hi, Mr. Keeper. Okay, great. Thank you.
00:32:43.800
Well, joining us now live from Calgary is the star of that video, Kian Bextie himself.
00:32:49.640
Kian, very exciting. Tell me what was in the envelope and tell our viewers what happened
00:32:55.400
in the hours and days after that. I'm not even going to call it an encounter. It was a near
00:33:00.520
miss encountered. Tell us a little bit more. Yeah. So as you know, when it comes to reporting
00:33:07.160
and getting both sides of the story, we have an obligation as journalists to pose our most prickly
00:33:13.640
points to the subject of the story. You taught me that when I worked for Rebel News, that it's
00:33:19.720
important that we share with them what we're about to publish so that they can't come back and say,
00:33:23.720
oh no, this was wrong. This was wrong. And we're going to sue you for defamation. So we listed
00:33:27.400
everything that we had. Uh, and it was a long list of accusations about Thomas Keeper. Usually,
00:33:33.160
you know, we, we get tips here and there of something, some candidate might've done in the
00:33:37.400
past, but in Thomas Keeper's case, dozens of people came forward and eight people went on the record with
00:33:43.560
me to discuss allegations of sexual abuse, physical abuse and verbal abuse against men and women. Uh,
00:33:51.880
and we had to put these questions to him, uh, and ask him if he had any defense at all, uh, about what
00:33:58.920
we were about to publish. And, you know, we have, we have a lot more to publish that we're now not,
00:34:03.480
I think going to publish because I don't think it's necessarily in the public interest to go after
00:34:08.680
some random real estate agent in Calgary, but this man wanted to be a member of parliament.
00:34:13.800
He wanted to sit in Ottawa right behind Mark Carney and make laws, uh, controlling our lives,
00:34:19.960
controlling the military, controlling tax policy, and people like that need to be held accountable.
00:34:24.280
Yeah. You know, you're so right about putting the prickliest comments to the subject,
00:34:29.320
especially if you're dealing with something like a sexual abuse allegation, that's so
00:34:32.920
extreme, so devastating. First of all, you don't want to get it wrong.
00:34:37.800
And for your own sake, and you don't want to get it wrong for his sake too. If it's not true,
00:34:42.200
you want to know it. Now I'm going to guess based on that footage that you had sent him
00:34:47.800
some sort of warning shot, like an email or something, because he looked like he knew what
00:34:52.840
you were up to when you came there. Like he, he knew who you were. Obviously he ran inside,
00:34:59.240
they closed the door. Um, I, I take it that you had sort of reached out in a, uh, less direct way
00:35:06.680
before. Is that true? Yeah. We, we had emailed him, we text him, we called him and without even
00:35:12.600
looking over his shoulder, he knew exactly who was standing behind him. Yeah. Wow. Um,
00:35:17.880
now there's one more wrinkle. And I remember talking to you on the day,
00:35:21.880
it was crystal. You, you filmed everything. And that I think is rule number one,
00:35:25.080
when you're doing the kind of close contact journalism, because this guy is, you know, like
00:35:30.600
a rat in a corner, I'm not calling him a rat, but it's like that panic he's in, he's boxed in,
00:35:34.920
he's painted into a corner. Um, and he's looking for some way out. Cause he knows his house of cards
00:35:40.360
is about to come tumbling down. Uh, I understand. So you filmed everything. We saw the altercation.
00:35:46.200
There was no altercation. You didn't touch him. You didn't enter his building. You didn't make any
00:35:51.560
threatening words. You basically just said what you just said to us here, which is you wanted to
00:35:56.520
deliver some prickly questions to him. Now, before he knew that your video showing the incident
00:36:02.600
happened, I think he called the cops. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. So we, we were filming
00:36:09.800
this on a hidden camera because you never know what would happen. It's to protect him and me.
00:36:15.720
Um, you know, in that exact same writing, uh, Calgary Confederations, the writing is the same writing,
00:36:21.560
um, provincially where Anne McGrath called the cops on me. I remember that.
00:36:26.280
I remember that was one of your finest videos with us. Here, let me actually launched my career
00:36:32.120
of, of on the ground journalism was Anne McGrath there. I'm not talking to the rebel.
00:36:38.680
Has any other media organization asked? I'm going to call the police.
00:36:41.720
Okay. We're in public. So I'm allowed to ask you these questions. I'm not allowed to ask you
00:36:45.480
questions. Not on, not on a public, not on a sidewalk when I've told you, I'm not talking to you.
00:36:49.640
This is harassment. It's not harassment. You're a public figure and a communist who wants to represent
00:36:54.920
Albertans. This is harassment. It's not harassment. It's reasonable questions. I just want to know why
00:37:00.360
you're a communist. No, I'm just going to call the police. You're calling the police because I'm
00:37:05.160
asking you why you're a communist. Because you're harassing me on the sidewalk. So I knew, you know,
00:37:09.240
if the cops show up, you want to have video evidence of everything that you've done. So you
00:37:13.240
can say, look, this guy, you know, and luckily that's exactly the case. You were alluding to it.
00:37:17.880
He apparently told the police that I got physical with him, that I came in guns a blazing and got
00:37:23.480
physical with him. And that was the basis for a restraining order that he was going to file against
00:37:28.120
me, which would be outrageous behavior for, to stop a journalist from speaking. Imagine getting
00:37:32.520
a restraining order against Rosemary Barton, not that Trudeau would ever, or Mark Carney would ever
00:37:36.200
need one against Rosemary Barton, but it's the same thing. It would be outrageous. And he said to those
00:37:40.840
police officers that I got physical with him and we have the footage to back it up that I didn't.
00:37:44.920
You know, and when you, when you lie to a police officer, when you make a false report,
00:37:50.520
it's bad enough. But to do that, to save your political skin is crazy. I think we have a clip
00:37:55.160
that you published of an interaction with the cops. Let's play just a little bit of that,
00:38:01.240
At any time, was there any physical contact or anything with that?
00:38:08.840
Yeah, just the, uh, nature of the interaction is just you asking him some questions.
00:38:13.080
They may cede to a restraining order. If a restraining order gets granted,
00:38:17.160
there may be a clause in there with no communication. Just be careful.
00:38:24.280
So I heard your side of the story. I heard his side of the story. I guess he's claiming
00:38:27.240
you went in and came in kind of hot and made physical contact with him.
00:38:30.920
Yeah. I mean, I think that, I mean, you could put yourself in the place of a beat cop,
00:38:37.480
especially in, in an urban, large urban city. They're dealing all day with people high on drugs,
00:38:44.200
with people who are mentally ill and in the streets. They're dealing with tough customers.
00:38:49.160
And sometimes they're social workers as much as they're cops. Occasionally, they're dealing with
00:38:53.240
violence. And then they get a call from some fancy pants, liberal candidate who's upset that a
00:38:59.560
journalist, and I'm going to call it journalists, fancy pants too, because this is a very white
00:39:04.760
collar interaction by two people who are a million miles away from requiring police assistance.
00:39:11.640
On the one hand, they're probably thinking, what a bunch of BS. On the other hand,
00:39:16.200
it's probably, maybe it's a break from, from the regular police work, which I wouldn't envy.
00:39:22.680
I think they pretty quickly figured out that they were being fibbed to as a political tactic.
00:39:27.720
Is that how it worked in the end? Well, yeah, I mean, that video goes on to a
00:39:31.800
second interaction with the police. I crossed the street to give some breathing room to Thomas,
00:39:36.440
who was obviously scared. And I, you know, the police came out and they said, look, this guy wants
00:39:41.960
a restraining order against you. And I said, you guys, I mean, that's outrageous. We have it on camera.
00:39:47.960
I'm going to head out. You guys probably have better work to do. And, you know, if it comes to me
00:39:53.240
having to defend this in front of a judge, I'm, I'm down, I'm down to tango. We have all the evidence
00:39:58.280
we need. Yeah. A very small part of me feels sorry for the guy. He must have put all his high hopes
00:40:06.120
into running and he registered. And obviously the liberal green light committee, I think that's what
00:40:11.400
they call their candidate vetting committee. I mean, I wonder if he misled them or if they said,
00:40:17.720
oh, this is so long ago and so minor, like, do you have any hunch about that? Because I mean,
00:40:23.720
I don't know what this year's liberal campaign asks, but I've seen political party vetting
00:40:31.400
forms before, and they can be dozens of pages long. I've got to think that criminal proceedings is
00:40:38.120
one of the very first things every party asks about. How do you think this guy sneaked through?
00:40:43.560
Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. I have the exact same experience, uh, with you. My father
00:40:48.760
just got vetted by the conservative party of Canada to become a candidate and you need to provide, um,
00:40:55.000
detailed exam, uh, so much, so many details about your life, including a criminal record check,
00:41:00.840
something that says, yeah, the police don't come to my door, you know, to be for domestic violence,
00:41:05.240
assaults and, and on and on and on and on. And in this case, I don't, I don't know what happened.
00:41:11.240
These, these committees are, are black boxes. They, you know, I don't even know the extent of
00:41:15.880
my father's vetting. Um, and Thomas keeper, definitely not. So my only guess is that either
00:41:23.000
Thomas lied or the liberal party vetting process is not as rigorous as, uh, Mark Carney seems to
00:41:29.080
think it is. Yeah. You know, um, we're in a very strange campaign three months ago. It looks like a
00:41:35.880
slam dunk for the conservatives. Now it's very much up in the air. I mean, frankly, if the election were
00:41:40.440
held today, I don't know if the conservatives would even win, let alone a majority. And the media,
00:41:45.240
I think feel like they've been shot at and, and missed as in they have a reprieve. They,
00:41:51.720
they were certain that Pierre Polyev was going to win and defund the CBC and, and probably upend all
00:41:58.280
the media subsidies. So I think you have a regime media that is more motivated than ever before.
00:42:03.720
Mm hmm. You say that eight different people came to you with the goods on Thomas keeper. Um,
00:42:14.200
you know, maybe they went to you because they know you're skeptical of liberals. Maybe they went to you
00:42:18.920
because like me, you have a certain political ideology, or maybe they went to you because no one
00:42:25.560
else would inquire. Maybe they went to the CBC or the Calgary Herald or QR 77. If that's still the
00:42:33.880
radio station there, maybe they went to everyone else first and they said, no, no, not interested.
00:42:40.040
Even though it's extremely interesting if a candidate has, you know, such accusations against them.
00:42:45.640
Do you have any indication that the people who came to you first, I mean, no disrespect,
00:42:50.040
but you are not the leading media outlet in Calgary. The Calgary Herald would probably be that.
00:42:55.480
And I know for a fact that multiple of my sources went to other media outlets in the city and they
00:43:00.600
did not cover the story. They had everything that I had. They could have covered this story. And it's
00:43:07.000
not like there's a ton of political scandal or intrigue right now in Calgary, you know, any, you know,
00:43:12.840
it's the dream of any local reporter who always has to cover Jody Gondek to be able to cover something
00:43:18.120
of national intrigue. And they still decided not to, despite having similar sources to me. I mean,
00:43:24.120
I didn't know these people until they reached out to me. Yeah. Very interesting. I think that
00:43:29.320
this election is, is already very distorted compared to other elections. And I think
00:43:37.000
this really is the do or die election. This is the final battle for the regime media. If they can
00:43:43.000
pull Carney across the finish line, they will save their jobs. If they cannot,
00:43:48.760
hundreds, perhaps thousands of them will be out of work and put aside ideology just from sheer survival.
00:43:56.760
Stories like yours will be muffled. Now, let me just close on this note. I see
00:44:01.560
that after you did the due diligence and by the way, going and hand delivering questions to someone,
00:44:07.160
that is the height of, you know, what, what lawyers call responsible journalism.
00:44:12.760
Like you are trying so hard to get the answers. You were going to his place like that. I mean,
00:44:18.600
any judge, like, and I remember you, you mentioned at Rebel News, we would talk about this.
00:44:23.240
You do it. So your journalism is accurate, but you also do it just in case you're ever sued for
00:44:27.560
defamation. You can say, judge, I tried literally everything. I even went there. So, I mean,
00:44:31.800
you did the height of responsible communication. It really is amazing. And you claimed the first
00:44:38.760
scalp of the campaign. And I see the CBC is writing the story, but they didn't mention you
00:44:47.240
in it at all. They just wrote the stories of it just happened. Have they edited their story to make
00:44:52.680
reference to you or did they just steal your scoop and write it without reference? Like when I looked
00:44:56.840
at the first version, they didn't mention you at all. Did that change?
00:44:59.960
It hasn't changed to my knowledge. We're submitting a complaint,
00:45:02.920
a formal complaint to the CBC ombudsman. And we've had good results in the past, actually,
00:45:09.880
with them correcting their journalism. Of course, it doesn't matter. Nobody's going to read it,
00:45:14.040
the story in a month, but it's still a matter of public record that we did the job that the CBC
00:45:20.760
is tasked with. And the whole purpose of them existing is to do stuff like this,
00:45:26.440
not to host the Junos, right? So we are going to hold them accountable. We're going to make sure
00:45:31.880
that they fix their story and we'll keep you posted if they do.
00:45:34.600
Yeah. It's a real difference between how the CBC covers, let's say, Premier Daniel Smith
00:45:39.800
and how they cover this rogue candidate. Well, listen, Kean, congratulations. It's fun to see
00:45:45.160
you again. We remember your work at Rebel News with fondness. And give us 30 seconds to talk to us
00:45:51.560
about Counter Signal and Juno News. I've already talked to your colleague, Candace Malcolm, about it,
00:45:56.600
and she explained it a little bit. Give me 30 seconds. What does it mean? Are both entities
00:46:02.520
Yeah. So the Counter Signal is still existing, still publishing all of the work that we're
00:46:07.720
used to publishing. We tend to be more Alberta-focused, but anything that's about the,
00:46:12.760
you know, it's, I mean, it's in the name. It's the Counter Signal. We're covering
00:46:16.760
all of the stuff from a different angle that the mainstream media likes to ignore,
00:46:20.600
or we're fact-checking the CBC constantly. But we are working with Juno News hand in hand
00:46:26.520
hand in hand to make sure that Canada has a wide variety of news options. We're also
00:46:32.360
launching some satire sites as well. Oh my God, that's hard. You'll see that soon.
00:46:37.560
There's nothing harder than to be funny, by the way.
00:46:40.120
Yeah, it's not me, thank God, because I'm the least funny person I know. But we are going to be
00:46:46.680
trying to sort of take a page out of the Babylon Bees book. You know, the Beaverton does satire in
00:46:51.960
Canada all the time, and they have kind of a monopoly on it. Right. So we need some conservative
00:46:56.360
satire in this country, and we're going to try and get that done. Yeah, with Babylon Bees, very
00:47:00.760
successful in the States. This hour is 22 minutes. Once in a while, I'll grant them like one, maybe
00:47:06.360
one in 10 times, they're fun. But the other time, nine times, I feel like I'm watching a liberal campaign
00:47:13.960
ad with a laugh track. Exactly. And I think the real sin of this hour is 22 minutes isn't that it's
00:47:20.120
left-wing. It said, it's unfunny. It's just not funny. And I think it's because their boss,
00:47:25.160
Mark Critch, is a liberal diehard. His wife is a liberal activist. And again, they know that
00:47:30.920
they'll probably be put out to pasture if Pauliev wins. Well, I look forward to that comedy,
00:47:35.320
that satire. That's an ambitious goal, I hope. I mean, it's hard to be funny. And I look forward to
00:47:42.520
being impressed. And boy, do we ever need it in Canada. And great to catch up with you. Thanks for
00:47:45.960
taking the time. Thanks, Ezra. There you have it, Kian Bextie, Rebel News alumnus.
00:47:51.000
He's the boss of the Counter Signal and part of Juno News. Stay with us, Moorhead.
00:48:04.040
What brings you down here today? Actually, there's nothing worth seeing here, right?
00:48:08.040
Well, good for you. I see you got your Pierre Pauliev hat on. You live just in the neighborhood?
00:48:12.200
I was just driving by and I saw the cops. I guess he needs that kind of security, right?
00:48:17.240
And then I saw you, actually. Well, nice to see you. Thanks very much. You know,
00:48:22.280
my friend David Manzies, he's in New Brunswick today. So we're out here
00:48:25.880
covering the home turf in Ontario. David normally
00:48:30.280
Yeah, right on. Well, I'll pass on your regards. Cheers.