Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Liberals, media allies deceive Canadians on looming economic recession

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. I debate the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

00:00:04.340 They're sending their national director to debate me on temporary foreign workers.

00:00:08.560 They like them. I oppose them. I'll let you be the judge.

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00:00:58.260 Tonight, I think Canada's economy is really starting to wobble.

00:01:13.740 It's September 5th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:16.220 You fighting for freedom!

00:01:19.360 Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:01:22.540 You know, I think it's getting harder out there.

00:01:33.580 This morning, I saw flyers being delivered in my neighborhood, and it's not a poor neighborhood.

00:01:38.800 And these flyers were advertising a restaurant where two people could eat for $20.

00:01:44.060 That's recession-style marketing.

00:01:46.000 I don't know if you know this, but we've actually been in a recession for the majority of the past three years.

00:01:52.120 A recession to economists is defined in a technical way where the GDP, the gross domestic product, that's all the goods and services, decline for two quarters in a row, two three-month periods in a row.

00:02:07.320 So, you know, that's everything that everyone earns and does and builds in the country.

00:02:12.280 So, if for two 90-day periods that number shrinks, you're in a recession.

00:02:18.240 But on a per capita basis, Canada has been in recession for actually about ten quarters now.

00:02:27.340 There was eight in a row, and then there was a little blip back into a recession.

00:02:30.320 So, for more than two years, but most of the time, when you hear people talk about the GDP, they mean as a total number measured in billions or trillions for the whole country.

00:02:43.700 And here's the thing.

00:02:44.900 Trudeau and now Mark Carney have been covering up the per capita recession that we've been in by bringing in literally millions of new migrants, most of them poor, by the way. 0.93

00:02:54.680 So, you and I and every Canadian on average is getting poorer, have been for several years.

00:03:02.300 But Trudeau and now Carney is bringing in enough foreigners that although we're each getting a smaller slice of the pie, the pie itself grows a tiny bit just because millions of new people are brought in.

00:03:15.120 And do you understand what I'm saying?

00:03:16.600 You and I are poorer and poorer and poorer and poorer, but to hide that statistic, they brought in millions of people so they could say, oh, no, no, the economy is growing.

00:03:27.560 There's more goods and services.

00:03:29.020 We are getting richer.

00:03:29.980 No, we're not.

00:03:30.560 On an average basis, on a per capita basis, we're all getting poorer.

00:03:34.380 I think it's a kind of deception.

00:03:36.160 If we had proper news coverage of the per capita recession of these past few years, I think the last election would have been a little bit different.

00:03:42.620 And that's the point, isn't it?

00:03:43.680 The media party is so insistent not to call it a recession on a per capita basis, which is the only one that would interest any individual Canadian.

00:03:52.180 I mean, what do you care if some other person does better economically?

00:03:55.940 You're doing worse.

00:03:57.680 You're personally not doing better, even though the gross economy grows a bit.

00:04:03.000 The media party has really hid this from Canadians.

00:04:05.540 And it's another reason why they love mass immigration.

00:04:08.220 It allows them to hide how poorly our economy is doing for individual families.

00:04:12.140 There are a handful of new immigrants who are wealthy or who make the rest of us wealthy, who are very well educated and provide much needed high value goods and services.

00:04:22.140 I would think of a highly trained surgeon.

00:04:24.280 But they are in the in the tiny minority.

00:04:28.280 Most immigrants to Canada are either family reunification, including elderly grandparents, for some reason, who will never contribute economically, but it will immediately get right in line for our free health care and pensions. 1.00

00:04:40.740 And then there's low skilled migrant labor.

00:04:43.260 Every Tim Hortons in the country.

00:04:44.740 And then there's outright refugees. 0.98

00:04:46.840 And of course, I put that in scare quotes, refugees, because they're not real refugees. 1.00

00:04:51.040 There are no direct flights to Canada from any war-torn places in the world.

00:04:55.080 There just aren't.

00:04:56.160 Afghanistan or Syria or Somalia.

00:04:58.460 By the way, the civil war in Syria is over.

00:05:01.080 Millions of Syrian migrants are actually returning.

00:05:03.180 According to the UN, more than a million have gone back already from Lebanon and Turkey, and the UN thinks there'll be another million coming.

00:05:10.980 Why don't we send our Syrian refugees home now that there is no more danger? 1.00

00:05:15.560 Anyways, anyone from those places had to go through a third country before coming here.

00:05:19.740 There just is no flight from Mogadishu to Toronto.

00:05:23.340 And international human rights law says you have to apply for refugee status in the first safe country you touch.

00:05:29.840 So, by definition, none of these people are genuine.

00:05:34.420 A lot of them have just walked in from the United States.

00:05:37.120 We have hundreds of thousands of them, including about 5,000, who have now taken over a number of hotels in Niagara Falls,

00:05:44.540 replacing the tourism economy there with a welfare economy paid for by you and me.

00:05:49.120 Here's some of David Menzies' report from about a month ago.

00:05:52.300 It is peak summertime tourism season in Niagara Falls.

00:05:56.720 But get a load of this, folks, at this hotel and several others in the city, there is literally no room at the inn.

00:06:06.060 Oh, sure, the hotel is jam-packed, but not with tourists flush with cash, but rather with refugee claimants. 1.00

00:06:15.980 I can tell you, folks, there are about 16,000 hotel rooms in Niagara Falls, and some 2,000 of those rooms are currently housing about 5,000 asylum seekers.

00:06:32.260 Naturally, there is quite the cost to that.

00:06:36.180 In fact, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada released figures last year showing that the federal government spent some $115 million in housing asylum seekers at hotels in Niagara Falls exclusively,

00:06:53.980 and that was just over a period of 12 months.

00:06:56.980 And if you're wondering where these asylum seekers hail, well, we're talking about countries such as Nigeria, Venezuela, Kenya, Turkey, and Colombia.

00:07:07.840 Refugee claimants stay for an average of 113 days. 0.99

00:07:12.720 The daily cost was $208 per person, with money going toward rooms, meals, services, and security.

00:07:22.960 And that, by the way, is the first thing you notice, folks, when you go into the hotel lobby.

00:07:28.440 There are security guards there who simply tell you, without giving you the reason why, that the hotel is not open to the public and to go next door to the Ramada and check in there.

00:07:43.700 So, yeah, I think a lot of people simply can't make ends meet in our economy anymore, and it's a lot more people than maybe we thought before.

00:07:50.020 But immigration is still going full guns for the reasons I suggested, but I think it's starting to wear thin.

00:07:55.480 Look at some of these headlines just from today.

00:07:57.720 Youth unemployment is now at levels seen during a recession, report shows.

00:08:01.660 Well, like I say, we have been in a recession for a few years now.

00:08:05.500 Here's the StatsCan report, just one of them.

00:08:09.180 7.1% unemployment, but that hides how bad it is.

00:08:12.380 That's unemployment.

00:08:13.600 So 7.1% of people looking for work cannot find it.

00:08:17.700 But look at this stat, 0.3% of people, that's the employment number, that's the labor force.

00:08:28.080 So 0.3% of people have just stopped even trying in the last month.

00:08:33.640 So the 7.1% number is just those who are still trying to find work.

00:08:39.300 But that would actually be 7.4% if we were still counting the people just giving up.

00:08:45.220 Isn't that funny?

00:08:45.820 It's not funny at all.

00:08:48.080 And why would you and how could you know this when a million foreigners are being brought in specifically to undermine you and undercut you? 1.00

00:08:55.940 That is expressly the purpose of temporary foreign workers.

00:08:58.940 That just is.

00:09:00.120 That's, you know, the more candid employers say, yeah, we want low wages.

00:09:05.040 Duh.

00:09:05.600 It's a zero-sum game in some ways.

00:09:08.240 Every dollar paid to an employee is a dollar not left for the business.

00:09:12.960 I saw some screeching pundit the other day saying it's racist not to want cheap foreign workers, an underclass of indentured servants here.

00:09:23.040 No, I actually think it's the opposite.

00:09:25.120 It's racist to have a third world underclass of exploited workers.

00:09:29.120 But putting race aside, it's cruel to young Canadians of all racial backgrounds too.

00:09:35.160 Here's that racist calling everyone else racist.

00:09:38.420 Like, I'm going to be quite frank and honest.

00:09:40.360 We are, the Conservative Party and Pierre Polyev and MP Rempel are treading a very dangerous line of what I'm going to call a dog whistle of racism.

00:09:50.180 Because if you want to have a conversation about the fact that we have an issue with immigration, we do. 1.00

00:09:57.120 Not because they're immigrants and they're coming in and taking away. 1.00

00:09:59.760 It's because our society and our system hasn't kept up.

00:10:02.420 We don't have enough housing.

00:10:03.800 We don't have enough resource put in place to help everybody.

00:10:06.740 So let's have that conversation.

00:10:08.540 But to say it's foreign workers that are taking away jobs from Canadians and the solution is youth to me is simplistic.

00:10:16.120 Yeah, no, and I don't think that's going to work anymore.

00:10:18.720 I think that has sort of run its course.

00:10:21.200 And there's not a lot of patience for the government calling people racist anymore after 10 years of Trudeau doing it.

00:10:26.780 I mean, it undercuts you when even a man of the insane left, BC Premier David Eby, says we have to stop bringing in our own replacement workers.

00:10:35.520 Here's the headline today.

00:10:36.980 Temporary Foreign Worker Program should be reformed significantly or cancelled.

00:10:40.940 Eby, I'll read a bit.

00:10:42.140 The temporary foreign worker program is not working.

00:10:44.920 It should be cancelled or significantly reformed, Eby said.

00:10:48.140 Here in British Columbia, we see an unacceptably high level of unemployment among young people, which has been linked both to the international student visa program as well as the temporary foreign worker program.

00:10:57.400 So it's not one or the other.

00:10:59.040 It's both.

00:10:59.440 There's about, what, a million foreign students in Canada, and most of them go to bogus diploma mills. 0.99

00:11:07.300 They're just here to work and to stay indefinitely.

00:11:09.880 They've never been deported.

00:11:11.180 They never will be.

00:11:11.940 But oligarchs and international corporations like all that, and of course these diploma mills like all that.

00:11:17.740 It's a supply and demand question.

00:11:19.340 You bring in a million foreign workers desperate for jobs, and I'd say a million because that's students and temporary foreign workers, and they're competing with, I don't know, a million Canadian youth desperate for summer jobs and other jobs, and you've got a race to the bottom.

00:11:32.200 That is good news for capitalists.

00:11:34.940 Supply and demand.

00:11:35.860 The price that capital has to pay for labor goes down.

00:11:40.380 I know I'm standing like a commie, but this is not capitalism the way that it is.

00:11:44.520 It is not capitalism to bring in the world's poorest people to level down our own economy.

00:11:50.920 That's some sort of weird arbitrage going on that disrespects the whole notion of a country, a sovereign country.

00:11:59.360 I can see why an oligarch with three passports like Mark Carney likes it, but I think a revolt is brewing.

00:12:05.560 Mark Carney's reheated Trudeau minister, Francois-Philippe Champagne, the guy who somehow thought it was a good idea to get a personal mortgage from a bank owned by the Communist Party of China.

00:12:19.600 That guy.

00:12:20.820 Champagne says the real answer is, get this, to invent a new economy.

00:12:27.660 Canada must reinvent economy like it did in 1945, finance minister says.

00:12:31.220 I often make an analogy between 2025 and 1945.

00:12:34.740 In 1945, Canada reinvented itself.

00:12:37.200 And I think this is one of those moments, Champagne said, referring to the post-war industrial and construction movement in Canada.

00:12:42.780 It's a moment when we have to reinvent the Canadian economy, Champagne said.

00:12:47.300 Speaking to reporters at the Liberal Cabinet retreat.

00:12:50.540 Let me guess.

00:12:52.800 He's going to use the phrase AI, isn't he?

00:12:55.100 I bet you he is.

00:12:57.720 Oh, yes, he does.

00:12:58.860 Quote, we have done it before.

00:13:00.920 Look at 1945. 0.51

00:13:02.080 Canada turned completely to be this great industrial nation.

00:13:05.260 We're going to build on that.

00:13:06.520 We're going to look at new technologies such as AI, he said.

00:13:11.020 Yeah, that's going to give us a million new jobs.

00:13:15.980 You know, these people can't even run their own slice of the economy properly.

00:13:18.700 Massive debt, massive taxes, massive spending.

00:13:21.500 That's what I'm talking about, the public sector.

00:13:23.220 And all without the excuse of COVID now.

00:13:25.320 These are the people, federal civil servants, who still aren't coming back to the office to work in the main, but they're going to invent a new economy for everyone else in the country.

00:13:35.220 I guess so.

00:13:35.980 I mean, they've blown themselves up with the real economy, namely us selling things of value to the world, including to the U.S.

00:13:43.420 First, I gambled on electric vehicle batteries.

00:13:47.700 I don't know how many tens of billions of dollars they spent on that.

00:13:50.360 They really think AI is going to do.

00:13:52.100 Just keep saying AI over and over again.

00:13:54.780 But the rest of the world is, you know, it's sort of mean what people are saying about Canada these days.

00:13:59.940 And I'm not rejoicing in it, but it's a little more honest than our own internal critique.

00:14:04.960 Here is Howard Lutnick, the U.S. Commerce Secretary, talking about how bad Mark Carney is as a negotiator.

00:14:12.260 And Prime Minister Modi seemed to indicate a coalescing of the BRICS.

00:14:17.380 Do you see anywhere in the next month, two months, any type of deal or backing down to a lower rate with India?

00:14:25.580 I would expect, like you saw it in Canada, right?

00:14:28.420 The Carney got elected with this term, elbows up, meaning let's fight with America.

00:14:34.820 They put on retaliatory tariffs.

00:14:36.900 They were all bravado.

00:14:38.540 And what happened?

00:14:39.620 Their GDP negative 1.6 percent, unemployment rocketing towards 8 percent.

00:14:46.020 And what did Carney just do?

00:14:47.720 He just finally, finally dropped his retaliatory tariffs.

00:14:51.960 So I think what happens is, it's all bravado because you think it feels good to fight with the biggest client in the world.

00:14:59.100 But eventually, your businesses are going to say, you've got to stop this and go make your deal with America.

00:15:05.480 So I think, yes, in a month or two months, I think India is going to be at the table and they're going to say they're sorry and they're going to try to make a deal with Donald Trump.

00:15:13.900 And it will be on Donald Trump's desk, how he wants to deal with Modi.

00:15:18.440 And we leave that to him.

00:15:19.680 That's why he's the president.

00:15:20.860 Yeah, it's true.

00:15:21.460 Elbows up didn't really work.

00:15:23.200 But neither did this rocket surgeon's ideas.

00:15:27.100 When thinking of what we've gone through the summer, for my part, I've traveled a lot the country, meeting with different workers and different industries.

00:15:36.180 Some affected by the tariffs, others also that are much more in sectors that are going through a lot of growth.

00:15:45.240 And also, I went two times to Europe, Sweden, Finland, and afterwards in Germany.

00:15:50.740 And what our government is really focused right now is obviously on the economy.

00:15:55.040 So we need to protect jobs and we need to create some at the same time.

00:15:59.000 And we're doing that through three different ways.

00:16:02.920 The first one obviously is defense because we're increasing our investments in defense.

00:16:08.300 And while we're doing that for our strong, brave Canadian men and women serving our armed forces, at the same time, we're doing it to create jobs.

00:16:20.560 And that's why we're working on a defense industrial strategy and want to be using procurement to be able to create jobs in our country.

00:16:29.700 The other thing that we're working on is obviously to be closer to Europe and to closer to certain countries in Asia because we know we're too dependent on the U.S. when it comes to trade.

00:16:42.340 And that is clearly a focus of what we're doing as a government.

00:16:45.780 Yeah, about that, Canada's trade diversification push goes into reverse.

00:16:49.960 Let me read you a story from the Globe and Mail.

00:16:51.480 Now, for all the talk in Canada about the need for trade diversification, exports to non-U.S. markets declined for the second month in a row in July.

00:16:59.960 A stark reminder that the push to reduce the country's exposure to its largest yet unreliable trading partner will be a long process.

00:17:06.820 Exports to countries other than the U.S. fell 8.6% in July from the month before after a 4.2% drop in June, according to Statistics Canada.

00:17:16.140 As a result, non-U.S. exports as a share of total Canadian shipments to the world dropped back to where they were in October before the election of President Trump.

00:17:24.220 In fact, really the only story about diversification in this piece was about the Trans Mountain Pipeline that was this grotesque white elephant.

00:17:33.440 That pipeline was first proposed by a private company called Kinder Morgan, American company, that raised all the money themselves and that was working away on a budget of about $6 billion.

00:17:43.040 They said, oh, we'll do it. Yeah, $6 billion ought to do it until Trudeau killed the deal by changing the environmental rules.

00:17:51.420 And so they just absolutely broke all the rules with Kinder Morgan.

00:17:55.780 And then Kinder Morgan was about to sue Canada for probably $10 billion until Trudeau preempted them and just offered them billions and billions and billions just to buy them off.

00:18:07.000 And Kinder Morgan couldn't believe it. They took the cash and said, yeah, goodbye, Canada.

00:18:12.340 And the pipeline, the liberals took over the pipeline and the final cost was well over $20 billion.

00:18:18.040 Only a government could, what, quadruple, quintuple costs on a project that was previously being done by a private company with no government money.

00:18:27.020 They were using their own money.

00:18:28.780 Anyways, that pipeline is actually working now, though not at full capacity.

00:18:32.560 But get this, I'm reading from the story now.

00:18:34.960 One exception is oil.

00:18:38.020 Since the expanded Trans Mountain Pipeline began operating in May 2024, the share of Canadian crude going to non-U.S. markets has soared, hitting 7.9% in July, up from an average of just 2.7% in 2023.

00:18:50.920 Got it.

00:18:51.720 So it's actually the only thing that's working.

00:18:54.360 Okay, let's sum up.

00:18:55.340 Unemployment is up.

00:18:56.920 People dropping out of the job market, just giving up.

00:19:00.060 Even a kooky left-wing premier is calling for the end of the foreign workers program.

00:19:05.300 America is laughing at Mark Carney.

00:19:08.040 And frankly, so is the rest of the world.

00:19:09.980 And to think, Carney sold himself in Canada as a businessman who knows how things work.

00:19:16.360 Really?

00:19:17.060 No sign of that yet.

00:19:18.420 But you know who is even worse at their jobs than the liberal government?

00:19:21.760 And the regime media, whose main job is to fluff up Carney and his disasters.

00:19:26.980 Yeah, we've been in a recession for years, but the media won't tell you that, will they?

00:19:31.220 They'll just call you racist for complaining.

00:19:34.180 Stay with us.

00:19:34.920 More ahead, including a debate on temporary foreign workers.

00:19:47.260 Well, unemployment is heading in the wrong direction, especially for young people, especially for young men.

00:19:51.840 Which brings into focus the question of the temporary foreign workers program and the use of it widespread.

00:20:00.760 I'm a skeptic.

00:20:01.700 I'm a critic.

00:20:02.300 I disagree with it.

00:20:03.640 I agree with the approach taken by Pierre Polyev to wind that program down.

00:20:08.340 But others have a different point of view, including our next guest.

00:20:11.700 Her name is Christina Santini.

00:20:13.260 She's the Director of National Affairs for the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

00:20:17.680 And we're going to have a good discussion now.

00:20:20.380 I know the CFIB stands up for its members who are employers of independent business.

00:20:26.300 And I can understand where they're coming from.

00:20:28.700 But let's have a good, hearty conversation with Christina.

00:20:32.360 Welcome to the program.

00:20:33.220 Thanks very much for being here.

00:20:35.040 Thanks for having me on.

00:20:35.900 Now, I understand the reason historically for the temporary foreign workers program.

00:20:41.760 I think the classic example is a farmer who has a very tight period of time he needs to harvest a crop.

00:20:48.760 And he needs an intense amount of labor for a short period that he may not be able to find in the region.

00:20:54.760 So, I mean, I've seen it.

00:20:55.980 I know someone in the Calgary area who would bring in Mexican workers for a period to help harvest his berries.

00:21:02.580 And it sort of made sense because could he really find enough manpower for that brief period of time?

00:21:08.540 But I think that the program has changed.

00:21:12.000 And now there really is no job that a temporary foreign worker cannot have in this country, so it appears.

00:21:18.760 The number of temporary foreign workers has skyrocketed.

00:21:22.280 And I believe it's deleterious to Canadian citizens, especially young Canadian citizens, who want to get in on the job market.

00:21:29.040 So, that's my take.

00:21:30.860 Christina, can you tell me if I've got a fact wrong, if any of my arguments you think aren't up to snuff?

00:21:37.960 Do you disagree with what I've said?

00:21:40.460 Is there – give me the point of view of your members and of your organization, because I really feel strongly about this.

00:21:48.600 But obviously, you guys have a different opinion.

00:21:50.780 So, we have members across the country and across all sectors, and some of them, very few, just like in the Canadian economy, very few of them do resort to temporary foreign workers' program.

00:22:01.560 What we need to give credence to the program, though, is that it is designed to sort of open the tap and close the tap.

00:22:08.220 And so, to reflect local labor market needs.

00:22:11.380 And it is the immigration program that reflects local labor market needs the most, because all the hoops that employers who do turn to it have to jump through.

00:22:18.660 So, the question that could be raised is more, are those hoops truly doing what they need to be done?

00:22:26.180 Are they working well?

00:22:27.480 For example, you know, employers have to demonstrate that they've actively recruited.

00:22:31.520 And what we're hearing from employers who've had to turn to those programs is, we tried to recruit locally.

00:22:36.480 They're not applying for the positions we've had.

00:22:39.600 They're not showing genuine interest or coming to the interviews.

00:22:43.280 And so, that's part of the issues that they have is, if they're turning to the temporary foreign worker program, it's because they haven't had any luck or any opportunity to find Canadian labor, and they would rather hire a Canadian.

00:22:56.140 But those Canadians just aren't lining up for the jobs on offer as they are on offer. 0.96

00:23:01.480 You know, I want to put a different point of view to you.

00:23:07.820 I think that because everyone is doing it, I mean, you can't go to a fast food restaurant or a drive-thru or a lot of retail companies without there being a temporary foreign worker.

00:23:20.120 And so, it's sort of like a mutually assured destruction.

00:23:23.580 Everyone's doing it, so everyone has to do it.

00:23:25.620 It's like an arms race, if I may.

00:23:27.180 So, I mean, I know a franchisee who has several Tim Hortons, and he tells me, I mean, this was a while ago, he told me this, that he just simply couldn't compete without it.

00:23:38.760 And what he meant was he couldn't compete with the other drive-thrus.

00:23:42.840 He couldn't compete with the other restaurants because everyone's doing it.

00:23:46.380 And it's sort of like an arms race.

00:23:48.040 If McDonald's is doing it, then Tim Hortons has to.

00:23:51.240 And if Tim Hortons is doing it, McDonald's has to.

00:23:53.760 So, I understand that if one of them tried to break from this way of doing things, they couldn't get the employees.

00:24:00.940 But what if we phased out the temporary foreign worker program altogether?

00:24:05.060 So, the only people who could apply to work for Tim Hortons were Canadians.

00:24:10.340 And, yeah, I think it probably would mean that the salaries would go up a little bit.

00:24:14.400 And I got to say, I don't think that's a terrible thing for young people to get an extra buck or two an hour, especially if every competitor is doing it, too.

00:24:24.040 So, it wouldn't just be my buddy from Tim Hortons who's on the short end of the stick because he's competitors to McDonald's.

00:24:29.780 Like, isn't it that everyone's doing it so everyone has to do it?

00:24:34.000 And if we took it away, then everyone could stop doing it?

00:24:36.600 So, you have to take into consideration the scope of the TFWP.

00:24:42.320 Not everyone is doing it.

00:24:43.520 That is a myth.

00:24:44.820 It is barely 1% of our total labor force.

00:24:48.480 So, no, not everyone is doing it.

00:24:51.360 The person that may be serving you may not necessarily be a TFWP.

00:24:55.540 They may be an international student.

00:24:57.060 They may be a recent immigrant to Canada.

00:24:58.800 So, don't presume, based on certain attributes, that the person serving you is necessarily a TFWP.

00:25:07.340 With regards to, and that's one of the key things, is everyone is hating the TFWP when it's actually a fraction.

00:25:15.140 And remember, it's the most targeted programs to local labor market needs.

00:25:18.220 It is a fraction of all immigrants that are being let in.

00:25:21.120 Most of the immigrants are coming in under the student program or under the international mobility program.

00:25:26.200 So, it's sort of a distraction game.

00:25:29.840 It's a smoke and mirrors game.

00:25:31.700 So, that is one thing that I'd like to call attention to.

00:25:34.660 The other element is that it presumes that Canadian workers are there for those jobs.

00:25:39.640 And ESDC's own evaluation has articulated that it is not a question of wages.

00:25:46.120 And even our members, when we previously surveyed them, 80% had tried to raise wages.

00:25:51.100 And only 15% stated that it helped them recruit locally.

00:25:57.020 It's not the factor of success.

00:25:59.800 What is difficult about the positions being filled is that they are often in rural and remote areas.

00:26:04.740 They are not a typical work schedule.

00:26:07.880 So, evenings, weekends, early morning shifts at like 5 a.m.

00:26:12.300 Not necessarily jobs Canadians are lining up for.

00:26:17.180 And they're often very physically demanding.

00:26:19.640 And we have a highly educated workforce.

00:26:22.720 Again, you know, the key question we need to ask ourselves is, are Canadians actually wanting to have the positions that are being filled?

00:26:30.540 And if so, why aren't they already applying for it?

00:26:32.980 And it's not a question of wage.

00:26:34.420 The other element about wage, and this needs to be noted very closely, is businesses aren't government.

00:26:41.140 They don't have deep pockets in the ability to go on into deficits exponentially.

00:26:46.480 They're not big multinationals that have also deep pockets because they can raise financing very quickly or they can take, you know, be creative with losses.

00:26:56.700 They have small margins, small levels of capitalization, increasing wages to the extent that may be required to actually attract domestic labor and stable domestic labor is something that will end up affecting consumers.

00:27:13.360 You said a lot of things there.

00:27:15.360 One of them, I think, is probably spot on where you say, I may be confusing the foreign national at my drive-thru for a temporary foreign worker when, in fact, they might be an international student here on that kind of visa.

00:27:30.140 And I take your point, but if that is true, and I think it very well could be, in fact, I know a particular student who is working and he's foreign, so there's really no difference.

00:27:43.360 That's a foreign national as well.

00:27:45.980 And I think that just like, and I think, in fact, in some ways there's even more abuses there.

00:27:51.640 I forget the exact stat for the number of international students in Canada.

00:27:56.420 I think it's over a million now.

00:27:58.840 And it's such a staggering number.

00:28:01.680 And if those folks are in the workforce as well, you don't just have the official temporary foreign workers competing against Canadians.

00:28:10.520 You now have all those foreign students.

00:28:13.060 So I think you're pointing out another problem.

00:28:18.000 I don't think it takes away, in my mind, from the fact that the temporary foreign workers program itself is also a problem.

00:28:26.120 But I just think that, I think back to how it was when I was a kid.

00:28:31.020 And yeah, all those crappy jobs were the jobs kids wanted.

00:28:35.400 That was the first job on the first rung on the ladder of life.

00:28:39.260 And I think to other countries where I've been, where they have very modest immigration, and it is their nationals who have those entry-level jobs. 0.85

00:28:49.420 And there's a dignity to it.

00:28:51.940 And everyone understands it.

00:28:53.940 I think that it's a little too easy for employers to say, no one wants these jobs.

00:28:59.780 We can't get Canadians off their couches to do this. 1.00

00:29:02.840 I think it's too easy to say that.

00:29:05.020 And again, it's because there's just so many foreign workers here. 0.85

00:29:09.300 I don't know.

00:29:09.840 I don't think you've convinced me that temporary foreign workers are a good thing. 1.00

00:29:14.980 You've just added to my stress by reminding me that foreign students can work here too.

00:29:20.120 If I may, I mean, this is about the temporary foreign worker program.

00:29:24.800 And that's one of the things that I would like to circle back to.

00:29:28.180 Namely, and one of the points we haven't touched on yet is the fact that they complement each other, right?

00:29:34.880 And it is something that's being lost in this debate.

00:29:37.900 So oftentimes we're saying, and you've referenced, they're taking Canadians' jobs, and they're taking Canadian youth's job. 0.51

00:29:43.840 The reality and some of the things we're hearing from our members is they enable them to keep Canadian jobs.

00:29:50.840 We actually have surveyed our members and small business owners who have used the TFWP over the past two years.

00:29:57.520 And we've asked them, you know, has this enabled you to keep your doors open and to hire Canadians?

00:30:03.680 56% of them said yes.

00:30:06.200 We asked them with the recent restraints because, you know, the Liberal government did introduce restraints to the TFWP.

00:30:13.120 Those are working its way through the system.

00:30:15.680 They're applying to new LMIAs.

00:30:17.740 So previously approved LMIAs, you know, they've already been vetted under the old systems, but the new ones.

00:30:24.040 And so that's the whole thing about how many work permits were approved.

00:30:27.100 It will take time for the Liberal policies to really see results because it's applying to new LMIAs.

00:30:35.680 So going back to that element, we do know that 90% of them feel like they won't be able to retain their current workers.

00:30:47.080 And about one in five fear that if they can't retain their existing workforce, and we're not necessarily talking about just recruiting.

00:30:54.320 We're talking about retaining the people they already have.

00:30:57.560 They may have to close.

00:30:59.300 And so in closing, because remember, foreign workers can only represent between, you know, 10 and 30% of the workforce of a specific employer.

00:31:07.020 You're also talking about more job losses.

00:31:10.700 You're talking about Canadians potentially losing their jobs.

00:31:13.700 So we need to consider that in the whole element.

00:31:16.360 And that's why there's a need for an LMIA assessment.

00:31:18.860 That is why that process, which doesn't exist in their international mobility program, the LMIA process is important and there's value to it because the employer has to demonstrate there's going to be a positive impact to the labor market.

00:31:34.420 Government employees are supposed to be going through and saying, is this actually going to help keep jobs or retain jobs in Canada?

00:31:41.980 And have they done everything they can to recruit?

00:31:44.500 By scrapping the TFWP, you're not even allowing employers to make that case.

00:31:50.160 Just for our viewers, LMIA, if I'm not mistaken, that's labor market impact assessment.

00:31:56.020 It sure feels like they're gaming that system.

00:31:59.060 I recently found an online database that's searchable by map and by geography.

00:32:05.260 There's thousands and thousands of these temporary foreign worker help wanted basically ads.

00:32:11.920 And so many of them are like, just like I just started going through them and seeing the different jobs there.

00:32:20.440 And they were urban jobs in often in restaurants or retail.

00:32:25.120 I actually saw one job that was for a psychiatrist that paid up to $400,000.

00:32:30.520 It was very confusing to me because on the one hand, you had like that job.

00:32:36.300 And on the other hand, you had jobs basically undercutting minimum wage, those starter jobs that teenagers would take.

00:32:43.460 But the main thing I took away from that was how promiscuous this all was.

00:32:48.420 This wasn't a rare thing.

00:32:50.240 This wasn't a temporary solution like I mentioned the berry farmer who needed help.

00:32:55.960 It feels like it's a permanent, new, general approach to employment in this country.

00:33:03.920 And even if the arguments you make are true, and I'm skeptical, you have a permanent underclass that is pushing down wages.

00:33:14.140 Even Premier Eby, the communist premier of British Columbia, has acknowledged that this is depressing employment opportunities for British Columbians.

00:33:23.760 I think even if your employers that you represent are right, that they need it, I would say, well, of course they're right because it's in their interest to reduce wages.

00:33:36.540 I just think that we have a permanent underclass now of exploited foreign workers.

00:33:43.840 And that's maybe in the interest of an employer to pay a few bucks an hour less.

00:33:49.980 But I just don't think that socially and culturally and economically it helps anyone else.

00:33:54.400 I don't know.

00:33:55.000 Maybe I'm starting to sound like a communist myself.

00:33:57.940 So the language you're using actually seems to contribute to them being perceived as an underclass because that would not be the language that many small business owners would employ.

00:34:07.860 They are an integral part of the whole supply chain of making sure that we get the services and the goods that we can appreciate.

00:34:17.640 And we need to value as Canadian society anyone and everyone from the cashier and the coffee barista, coffee barista, all the way through to the civil engineer and the physicians that we see.

00:34:31.800 So I do think that within Canada, we need to revisit how we perceive different roles and maybe it would open up Canadian views willingness to proceed in career in trades vis-a-vis seeking education in STEM, etc.

00:34:48.060 Because we do tend to stigmatize those lower wage jobs and we shouldn't.

00:34:52.680 And the fact that TFWs or immigrants occupy this job shouldn't at any point stigmatize any occupation.

00:34:59.700 If someone is working, regardless of where they're working, that's great.

00:35:03.940 They are contributing to Canadian society.

00:35:06.600 So that's first and foremost.

00:35:07.860 And again, the argument of prevailing wage is based on a lot of myths and doesn't recognize to the extent the government's tried to counter that in recent years.

00:35:19.200 For example, there's a prevailing wage requirement when you're hiring someone through the temporary foreign worker program.

00:35:24.100 Again, that is the program that Podiev is saying he wants to get rid of.

00:35:28.000 And there are so many requirements in that program that actually tries to mitigate all these myths that people are saying that it's taking Canadian jobs.

00:35:38.140 Well, Canadians would have had the chance to apply.

00:35:40.240 They would have had a chance to see the conditions as they are being presented to the foreign workers.

00:35:44.440 They have to pay the prevailing minimum wage.

00:35:48.520 That is, or sorry, prevailing wage, not the minimum wage, prevailing wage.

00:35:52.700 What is that?

00:35:53.400 That's the median wage for the occupation of the region, which is often higher than the minimum wage.

00:35:59.020 That is what they need to advertise if they want to have access to the LMIA, and that's what they need to pay.

00:36:03.820 And then afterwards, once you've done all those, jumped through those hoops, if you do happen to have a foreign worker that comes, because many LMIAs are approved and never actually have a foreign worker come into the country because the work permit is not approved or the LMIA expires before identifying the right talent.

00:36:22.560 If you do have them come, you are subject to the employer compliance regime.

00:36:28.760 So not only do they have provincial or federal labor codes, they have the Canadian government, ESDC, and IRCC that can come in and inspect and ensure that you meet the terms.

00:36:39.160 How often does that happen?

00:36:41.700 It seems to me our entire immigration process has moved away from any sort of enforcement.

00:36:47.880 Deportation orders are no longer even a thing.

00:36:50.500 There are no in-person meetings now for migrants to our country.

00:36:54.920 Is it – how often – can you cite a number?

00:36:58.440 How often is a temporary foreign worker investigated and found against – like, is it even one in a thousand?

00:37:07.360 Like, it seems to me that abuse is the name of the game.

00:37:10.580 I see little TikTok videos of foreign nationals teaching fellow foreign nationals how to game the system on everything from LMIAs to how to use food banks instead of paying for groceries. 0.98

00:37:25.920 Like, I feel like the whole world is looking at Canada and thinking, those guys are chumps. 0.97

00:37:30.800 Don't go to America. 1.00

00:37:32.160 They'll kick you out.

00:37:34.280 I think that we are the soft touch.

00:37:37.040 Trudeau fired that starter pistol with his tweet in January 2016.

00:37:42.080 Like, let me challenge you a little bit there.

00:37:43.960 You say that this is regulated and inspected.

00:37:46.620 I'm very skeptical about that.

00:37:48.760 Like, would even one in a thousand of these be overturned?

00:37:51.780 So, let's foremost address some of your comments you made about the TikTok videos and things like that.

00:37:57.500 And even earlier on about offers and wondering if they were unscrupulous.

00:38:03.640 There are likely some unscrupulous actors there.

00:38:06.000 And even small business owners would want to see the tap turned off on them.

00:38:09.560 And we're not – what we're saying is, as you're turning the tap off on them, note that there is still a genuine need.

00:38:16.000 And, you know, for those individuals that are compliant with the law, that access to the program should be maintained.

00:38:22.240 But go after those few unscrupulous individuals, right?

00:38:25.420 Go after those that are clearly abusing the system, potentially entering into human trafficking, and not acting according to the law.

00:38:34.640 Those individuals shouldn't be tainting the whole program or tainting Canada's reputation, which is of great concern.

00:38:43.240 At the expense of the others.

00:38:46.920 So, we need to – the government does need to enforce the rules that are in place because they are there.

00:38:52.960 And that's ultimately the key thing is that they do have the rules there.

00:38:56.100 Now, to what extent are they enforcing them?

00:38:58.480 I admit I don't have off the top of my head the number of inspections they took in 2024, but I do know the compliance rate was over 94%.

00:39:05.800 So, that is something to keep in mind is the vast majority of small business owners, they are being compliant.

00:39:13.240 They are paying what they're saying they're going to pay.

00:39:15.920 They are treating their employees.

00:39:17.560 We've gotten comments from members saying, like, especially farms and in agricultural sectors, they often have seen the same workers come back to their farms for over a decade.

00:39:27.960 And they say, if I was mistreating my employee, that employee would not be coming back every single year.

00:39:34.160 I treat them like they're family members.

00:39:36.060 I make sure they've got good housing, that they're fed, that they've got social activities, and that they're treated respectfully in the workplace.

00:39:44.140 So, that's the other thing we need to consider is if these foreign workers are coming back on a recurring basis, particularly for seasonal, you are talking about that being an indicator of the fact that they're not that badly treated.

00:39:57.760 That doesn't mean there aren't bad actors, but you need to recognize there are also some very good actors in the system.

00:40:02.940 You know, I was reading a tweet by a Sikh Canadian who was saying that some companies who use the temporary foreign workers program, the workers actually pay the company, kind of a bribe or a shakedown or a commission.

00:40:19.780 They pay to get the job, that it's sort of a fake job, and the whole thing is a sham, just a way to immigrate to Canada. 0.85

00:40:28.160 And I mean, use the example of the farm workers who return every year.

00:40:31.520 And that's actually my favorite example.

00:40:33.480 I knew a berry farmer in southern Alberta who did that from Mexico.

00:40:38.320 And that seems legit, as opposed to, I mean, I haven't been able to chase down this rumor by this Canadian, this Sikh Canadian fellow, 0.96

00:40:47.300 who was saying that he is aware of temporary foreign workers who essentially bribed their way into Canada by actually paying the company to hire them.

00:40:57.160 And it's a sham, just like these diploma mills are shams for international students. 1.00

00:41:01.740 I guess I'll have to do some more investigating myself, because I do not believe it's as compliant as you say.

00:41:07.200 Let me make a final comment, and then I'm going to invite you to sum up your case.

00:41:10.560 Because I'd like to stop for a second and say thanks to you for coming on, because I know I'm peppering you with some objections and questions.

00:41:16.300 And I think you're doing a pretty good job of making the case for your company, your organization, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

00:41:24.280 And you're doing a good job for them.

00:41:25.820 I mean, it is in the interests of business people to reduce labor costs.

00:41:30.040 I just don't know if the broader social consequences are being borne.

00:41:35.880 I mean, I think that they're hurting the most vulnerable, namely young people.

00:41:39.460 Let me just make one last comment, and then I'll throw it to you to close up our little mini debate.

00:41:43.520 And you said that we don't want to stigmatize those entry-level jobs.

00:41:48.420 And I agree completely.

00:41:51.640 I don't think I look down on those entry jobs at all.

00:41:55.800 In fact, I look back quite fondly at my own life when I had them.

00:41:58.980 And when I'm in places in the world where they do not have mass immigration, I'm blown away by indigenous people. 1.00

00:42:07.260 Like I was in Switzerland or I was in Romania, places where immigration is much more modest.

00:42:13.220 And to see native Swiss or native Romanians doing work that we have marginalized.

00:42:19.440 We have marginalized it by saying we're going to bring in foreign workers. 0.99

00:42:23.900 I don't think I stigmatize, you know, low-skill jobs at all or entry-level jobs at all.

00:42:32.000 In fact, I sort of think, oh, there's someone working their way up.

00:42:34.980 It's when we say, oh, no one wants this crappy job.

00:42:39.200 No one wants this midnight shift. 0.87

00:42:41.520 No one wants to be a janitor.

00:42:43.560 Find someone, oh, some foreigner will do it. 1.00

00:42:45.540 That's the stigmatization.

00:42:47.280 I'm in these other countries where they actually hire their own local people.

00:42:50.400 And maybe the cost of living is a little higher.

00:42:52.120 But I tell you one thing, they're cohesive socially.

00:42:55.500 They absolutely respect those blue-collar workers.

00:42:58.020 In my view, when you bring in a foreign underclass, whether it's to pick cotton 250 years ago or to mop up toilets today, I think that's what stigmatizes. 1.00

00:43:10.380 When you say these jobs are too crappy for our own citizens.

00:43:14.420 So I think that foreign workers actually – that project stigmatizes the working class, not the other way around.

00:43:21.840 That's my final thought.

00:43:22.720 Let me let you finish things up because you've been doing a great job on behalf of the CFIB.

00:43:28.020 So thank you for giving me some final comments.

00:43:30.780 With regards to labor costs, as I referenced, ultimately small business owners that do resort to the TFWP, they resort to it at their last step.

00:43:40.600 It's last resort.

00:43:42.160 They have tried to find local labor and they haven't been successful to.

00:43:45.060 It's not about keeping labor costs down.

00:43:48.220 There are a lot of costs and responsibilities associated with the TFWP.

00:43:52.060 And those that I am talking about, or those I'm representing, or those that are looking to and striving to be compliant with the program, we're not talking about the unscrupulous.

00:44:00.280 We're – unfortunately, a lot of this political debacle is putting everyone together.

00:44:04.700 There are some with genuine needs.

00:44:06.740 And what we are hearing is, without the foreign labor to turn over the beds or to be in the kitchen, they'd have to close rooms. 0.91

00:44:14.660 They would have to shut down or reduce store hours or just close down their business operations.

00:44:22.300 And so the question we then need to understand is, the Canadian labor, we've been saying for ages, and we know there are certain sectors that have had or are likely to have persisting labor shortages.

00:44:36.860 But we haven't developed a plan or recognized that we would need labor in all sorts of jobs.

00:44:41.560 Whenever there are workforce development plans being rolled out, they're being rolled out and targeted at, like, clean energy, tech sector, whatever is new and sexy on the agenda at that moment in time.

00:44:54.460 But there is little consideration being given as to what type of plans or linkages that we provide to help individuals or to get Canadians to apply to jobs who may not necessarily be in the geographical area,

00:45:06.480 but within Canada, across the country, at all skill levels or types of jobs.

00:45:14.040 So, you know, would a youth from the Toronto area consider potentially working in hospitality services and turning beds in Jasper?

00:45:22.240 Those are some of the questions that we need to consider as a society is, what can we do to create those bridges?

00:45:30.720 And until the Canadian workforce is there and is applying for those jobs and is willing to take those jobs, and like you said, we do take away that stigma, the TFWP is needed.

00:45:43.720 Otherwise, what is happening is you're taking away what was supposed to be a Band-Aid without having healed the wound, without having found the solution.

00:45:51.160 What I'm hearing when Podiev is saying, scrap the program, they're basically saying, we're going to pull the rug from everyone, and you'll have to make do otherwise.

00:46:02.320 And they presume that there's going to be a labour to backfill.

00:46:05.540 They presume that where the jobs are is where the people are.

00:46:08.320 They presume that people will be right away willing to take a job in occupation they may have not previously been at,

00:46:15.960 and that may not necessarily align with their education level.

00:46:19.320 That's a lot of presumptions, and I think it gets to that much later on.

00:46:25.680 And as I referenced, even an ESDC evaluation of the program or of Canadian society overall identified that the main reasons Canadians are taking the jobs on offer

00:46:37.140 that are being posted under the TFWP is not wage.

00:46:40.960 It's actually the location.

00:46:43.060 It is actually the working conditions, and it is actually the labour intensiveness of the job.

00:46:52.760 So those are some of the things to keep in mind as well as, you know, are Canadians going to be taking shifts that are overnight?

00:47:00.520 Are Canadians going to be taking shifts that are in the weekends that may not have traditional daycare services available?

00:47:07.760 And then the last piece, and sorry, I will just do this thing, is they complement Canadian labour, because just think about it.

00:47:15.060 Even how many Canadians might try to bring in a live-in caregiver to help with their senior parents,

00:47:20.500 or how many might bring in a nanny to take care of their kids when daycare isn't necessarily accessible or is long waiting lists in various regions across Canada?

00:47:31.300 They are the chef that enables the front of the house to operate.

00:47:35.680 They are the ones that clean up the rooms that enable there to be rooms that are open to host events for the event planners that are Canadians,

00:47:43.240 the hostess that are Canadians, and et cetera.

00:47:46.260 So we can't forget that there is a complementary element.

00:47:51.380 Right now, the Canadian labour is not in those positions.

00:47:54.480 We're applying for those positions that are being sought to be filled through the TFWP.

00:48:00.060 Christina, you said an awful lot of things there, and I'm tempted to rebutt or challenge some of them,

00:48:05.660 but I did promise you to have the last word, and it's because I'm grateful to you for coming on the show,

00:48:10.880 because we are skeptical of the Temporary Foreign Workers Program,

00:48:13.920 and I don't think you've convinced me to change my mind,

00:48:17.080 but you've certainly allowed our viewers to hear a full broadcast of the other side of the story.

00:48:25.220 And I'm grateful to you, and I appreciate the CFIB,

00:48:28.180 and we've had excellent discussions with your colleague, Dan, before.

00:48:31.680 So thank you for coming on.

00:48:34.360 Agree to disagree with most of it, but hopefully we'll have a chance to talk more about it,

00:48:39.420 because I don't think this issue is going away,

00:48:41.780 especially as Canada's economy continues to stall, as unemployment grows.

00:48:47.640 I think there's going to be more and more questions about it.

00:48:50.520 Christina Santini, Director of National Affairs for the CFIB.

00:48:55.280 Great to meet you. Thanks for being here today.

00:48:56.840 Great to meet you. Thank you.

00:48:58.580 All right. Stay with us.

00:49:00.500 Your Letters to Me next.

00:49:10.900 Hey, welcome back.

00:49:11.980 Your Letters to Me.

00:49:13.340 On the ostriches, Freedom Barbie says, 0.95

00:49:15.760 This is sickening.

00:49:16.440 One of the worst things that is happening. 1.00

00:49:18.180 Sad and pathetic government. 0.99

00:49:20.200 Yeah, I didn't know so many people in the world cared about the ostriches, 0.98

00:49:23.260 but I don't think it's just that they're interesting birds.

00:49:26.140 I think it's the cruelty, the slavish following of rules, 1.00

00:49:31.400 the nonsensical, non-scientific basis for the rules.

00:49:34.800 And I think it's so many of us just live through that same public health BS under COVID.

00:49:40.640 And now we see that that's sort of the maintaining norm that they're going after the ostriches. 0.99

00:49:45.220 Ostriches are strange creatures. 1.00

00:49:46.860 I think they're sort of dinosaurs, actually.

00:49:48.880 If you look at their lineage, it goes back eons.

00:49:52.740 I don't find them the most cuddly of critters, but their life. 0.91

00:49:57.840 And the idea that hundreds of these birds would be killed because of some foolish regulation.

00:50:04.440 I think that's really caught the imagination of a lot of people.

00:50:06.780 And I think that our friend Dre is having fun covering it.

00:50:09.840 I mean, it's hard work, of course.

00:50:10.900 And she's in an RV because the closest hotel you heard her say it is hours away.

00:50:15.140 On Mark Carney and his accomplishments, someone called Young America says,

00:50:20.040 oh, but he has.

00:50:20.920 It's just nothing you nor Canada would actually want.

00:50:23.900 Better than Germany, AFD, sheesh.

00:50:26.900 I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

00:50:29.080 AFD is Alternative for Deutschland.

00:50:31.640 It's sort of the Reform Party, the Conservative Party, the Anti-Immigration Party in Germany.

00:50:36.020 And it's really been rising in the polls.

00:50:38.240 But this crazy thing is happening, and I haven't had a chance to look into it.

00:50:42.180 Six or seven leading politicians for AFD have died in a row in recent months.

00:50:50.580 I suppose it could be just raw chance, but there's been such a wave of assassinations around the world.

00:50:58.520 Two attempted assassinations on Donald Trump, one that came within an inch of killing him.

00:51:02.960 Jair Bolsonaro stabbed while he was campaigning in the previous election.

00:51:07.720 There are assassinations of conservative political leaders around the world.

00:51:13.000 And I have no evidence that that's what's going on with AFD.

00:51:17.940 But I also know it is not normal to have six or seven people die, all from the same party, all in the same spot of time.

00:51:24.980 It's just very creepy, isn't it?

00:51:27.320 Well, that's our show for the day.

00:51:29.300 Until tomorrow, actually until Monday.

00:51:31.500 On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:51:37.460 Thank you.

00:51:39.240 Thanks.

00:51:43.840 Bye.

00:51:46.640 Bye.

00:51:47.240 Bye.

00:51:47.600 Bye.

00:51:47.700 Bye.

00:51:48.620 Bye.

00:51:49.780 Bye.

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00:52:06.600 Bye.

Rebel News Podcast - September 05, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Liberals, media allies deceive Canadians on looming economic recession

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