Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Liberals push Nazi symbol ban to distract from the real problem

00:00:00.220 Hello, my friends. I want to take you through Bill C-9. It's a combating hate bill. Really?

00:00:07.780 Is that possible even to change someone's feelings? Hate's a human feeling, an emotion.

00:00:13.860 Can you change someone's feelings just by passing a law? I'll take you through it line by line.

00:00:19.380 But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the

00:00:22.380 video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com, click subscribe, eight bucks a month.

00:00:27.160 You get all this video content, but also the satisfaction of keeping Rebel News strong because

00:00:32.600 we take no government money and it shows. Tonight, the liberals won't do anything about pro-Hamas 0.81

00:00:51.560 protesters harassing Jews in residential neighborhoods. So they've announced a bill to

00:00:56.200 ban German Nazi symbols to distract you. It's November 25th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.

00:01:05.640 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:09.120 I was really worried about the liberals' online censorship law in the last parliament called

00:01:23.600 the Online Harms Act. I've seen what it's been doing in other countries that have similar laws

00:01:28.880 like the UK. That Canadian law was absolutely on track to be passed and enacted. The liberals,

00:01:35.820 the NDP and the bloc, all supported the bills. So it was a mathematical certainty. But then the

00:01:41.500 collapse of the Trudeau government and the election had the effect of canceling all bills in parliament

00:01:47.020 that hadn't been passed yet. So that was saved by the bell. So the Online Harms Act itself has not yet

00:01:54.460 been reintroduced, at least according to the parliamentary website, which is pretty detailed. But other bills

00:02:01.340 have that same censorship content in it. I tell you, they're obsessed with censorship. The liberal

00:02:08.940 government puts a higher premium on censoring Canadian citizens than on pretty much any other

00:02:15.740 policy. Bill C-2, for example, we talked about it in passing before, they would allow Canada Post to open

00:02:24.460 any letter or package without a search warrant. I'm sorry, that's crazy. Let me focus on Bill C-9,

00:02:32.860 which the liberals call the Combating Hate Act. Now, let me stop you right there. Hate is a human

00:02:40.300 emotion. You can no more tell someone not to feel an emotion that they are feeling than you can command

00:02:47.500 someone to feel an emotion that they aren't feeling. It's just not how people work. It's not how emotions

00:02:52.220 work. If all it took was to pass a law, we'd have passed the Everyone Love Each Other Act a long time

00:02:58.060 ago and we'd be done. People don't work that way. But the good thing is we don't have to command people

00:03:03.820 to feel a certain way because what really matters is what people do with their feelings. You can use

00:03:10.620 a feeling of hatred or anger as fuel to, I don't know, inspire your fight for peaceful change.

00:03:18.140 You can be motivated by love or by hate or by frustration or by whatever. As long as you keep

00:03:24.540 it positive, constructive, that's a good thing. I think this idea that the state gets to tell you

00:03:31.340 what you can or can't feel is inherently dangerous. And of course, it's authoritarian

00:03:35.900 and invasive of your privacy. What's in your heart is up to you. It's what you do with your hands that's

00:03:40.860 more relevant. And that's right there in the title of the bill. They are going to combat your feelings.

00:03:49.980 That's not going to work, is it? Now, by the way, there absolutely has been an explosion of hate in

00:03:56.380 Canada over the past two years and more generally over the past decade. Part of it is the woke left, often

00:04:04.060 white, old stock Canadians, university students, leftists in general, who have been taught critical

00:04:10.060 race theory. And that white men are oppressors and Jews are oppressors. At least Israel is. 1.00

00:04:18.380 But I think it's pretty clear just by watching what's going on on the streets in the last two years

00:04:24.220 in Toronto and Montreal and Mississauga and Ottawa and even in Calgary and Vancouver,

00:04:30.380 the bulk of the overt hate, the anti-Semitic hate in Canada, it's imported from Muslim countries. I'm 1.00

00:04:38.060 sorry to be blunt about it. It just is. A recent study showed that 96% of people in Indonesia were

00:04:46.780 anti-Semitic. And that's quite something, given that there are only about 200 Jews in the entire

00:04:53.420 country. It's less than one in a million people there are Jews, but they all hate Jews. 97% of people in 0.98

00:05:00.300 Kuwait, 97% of people in the West Bank and Gaza, they hate Jews. So if you bring in 1.00

00:05:07.580 thousands, hundreds of thousands of people from these countries, why would it be a surprise that

00:05:12.700 they have brought with them an ancient hatred? If you really wanted to stop hate, the human emotion,

00:05:19.900 frankly, the way to do it would be not to try and rewire Canadians' feelings, but to stop the mass 0.51

00:05:27.020 importation of people who have a profound cultural hatred towards Jews, in many cases towards Christians,

00:05:34.540 towards the West in general. If you were really trying to stop hate, don't bring it in.

00:05:41.340 But back to the bill. Let's go through it. It's only 10 pages long. Let me take you through it.

00:05:45.420 Section one is just the name of the bill. Section two is interesting. It's called

00:05:50.460 Willful Promotion of Hatred, Terrorism and Hate Symbols.

00:05:53.420 Everyone commits an offense who willfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group

00:05:58.460 by displaying in a public place, A, a symbol that is principally used by or principally associated with

00:06:05.260 a listed entity as defined in subsection 83.01. So what is that list? Well, it refers to the designated

00:06:14.460 terrorist groups in Canada. You can see the entire list here. There's a few exceptions to the rule, but it's

00:06:20.780 pretty much all Muslim terrorist groups. You can see that Canada has added narco terrorists at the 0.96

00:06:29.180 request of Donald Trump earlier this year, but it's pretty much a bunch of Muslim terrorist groups.

00:06:35.420 So my read of this law is that flying the flag of a terrorist group would now become a crime in Canada.

00:06:40.700 Now I'm skeptical. Police, especially in big cities like Montreal and Toronto, have been ordered not to

00:06:46.860 lay charges against pro-Hamas activists for other crimes like assault, harassment, trespass, uttering

00:06:53.420 threats, or even just traffic offenses. I mean, compare the lack of enforcement against pro-Hamas 0.56

00:06:59.260 extremists to the over-enforcement against peaceful truckers. To me, the craziest moment was that

00:07:06.220 when the pro-Hamas extremists in my own neighborhood literally reenacted a scene involving a mannequin

00:07:14.860 that was supposed to look like the former head of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the Hamas terrorist Yahya

00:07:21.820 Sinwar. In a Jewish neighborhood, they reenacted his last moments while blocking Jews on the sidewalk 0.99

00:07:28.780 and screaming at Jews through a loudspeaker. Yeah, pretty sure that if assault charges aren't filed

00:07:35.020 against Hamas protesters, flying a flag charges won't either. But we'll see. Of course, terrorist 0.98

00:07:40.860 supporters can move faster than the law. In Canada and around the West, Hamas supporters have made up 0.94

00:07:46.860 two new symbols. Believe it or not, one is a watermelon slice. So that's the symbol for Hamas and for, 0.97

00:07:56.380 you know, attacking Israel. It's pretty tough to ban a watermelon image. And for some reason, Hamas 0.96

00:08:02.620 supporters, you know, wear the the watermelon slice. Here's an employee of Flair Airlines wearing the Hamas 1.00

00:08:10.140 watermelon. Always a good feeling to know that a terrorist supporter works for a Canadian airline. Yikes.

00:08:16.860 And they also use the upside down red triangle, which unfortunately looks like the Canadian tire symbol.

00:08:22.860 It's a nod to Hamas propaganda videos where that red triangle indicates Hamas trying to kill someone.

00:08:30.540 It's the targeting. Now, I've seen a few terrorist flags flying in Canada, for sure. And you see some

00:08:40.220 crazy things out there. Here's David Menzies interviewing a delightful young lady who happens

00:08:45.260 to be a terrorist supporter who was wearing machine gun earrings in Mississauga. But look,

00:08:50.300 the the problem in Canada really isn't with the flag or with earrings or with symbols, is it?

00:08:59.660 It's with the law breaking. And the law breaking and the symbols comes from

00:09:05.500 people that if you bring in two million or three million people to Canada who hate Jews, who hate 0.91

00:09:10.860 Christians, who hate the West. Look, earrings are the least of it. Flags are the least of it. The primary 1.00

00:09:16.860 problem. The root of the problem is mass immigration. It's not the secondary issues, really.

00:09:23.580 Secondary issues like the police being terrified to do anything about this. It's all coming back to

00:09:28.700 the primary problem. The flag is not the problem. It's the people who would hold the flag. But let's

00:09:34.460 keep moving. I want to go through the bill. You'll see that in addition to terrorist symbols being added,

00:09:39.180 so are the old Nazi symbols, or at least a couple of them. Let me read. The Nazi Hockenkreutz, also known

00:09:46.140 as the Nazi swastika, or the Nazi double Sigrun, also known as the SS bolts, or a symbol that so

00:09:53.980 nearly resembles a symbol described in paragraph A or B that is likely to be confused with that symbol.

00:09:59.500 So they're banning, basically, the swastika and the SS symbol. Now, I don't like Nazi flags or symbols.

00:10:08.460 Again, there are plenty more, by the way. If you ban those, there's a Nazi symbol of the Black Sun,

00:10:13.420 and there's a skull called the Totenkopf. Believe me, the Nazis had plenty of symbols. I don't think

00:10:19.340 banning those symbols is going to change someone's mind. It's sort of like telling someone to shut up in

00:10:26.220 an argument. Even if they do shut up, you haven't changed their mind. The primary problem remains.

00:10:32.540 By the way, the number one users of Nazi symbols in Canada are pro-Hamas protesters. I haven't seen

00:10:38.620 this many swastikas in my entire life combined as I have at a single one of these pro-Hamas marches.

00:10:45.020 They bring swastikas every weekend to their anti-Israel protests, but not to fly in their own

00:10:50.700 name. They're smarter than that. They fly the swastika to accuse the Jews of being Nazis. 0.87

00:10:58.460 I would expect that they would challenge this law on constitutional grounds or challenge the

00:11:03.020 use of it against them by claiming, no, no, no, we don't support the Nazis. We're accusing the

00:11:07.660 Jews of supporting Nazis. That's why we have the swastika. Mark my words they're going to say that. 0.99

00:11:13.340 By the way, that offense of showing those symbols comes with a maximum two-year sentence. But look at the

00:11:20.060 defenses. This is tailor-made for the pro-Hamas protesters. This lists the defenses to this 0.55

00:11:26.460 banning of the symbols. No person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection 2.2

00:11:32.940 a if the display of the symbol was for a legitimate purpose, including a legitimate purpose related to

00:11:38.460 journalism, religion, education, or art that is not contrary to the public interest, or b if in good

00:11:46.380 faith the display of the symbol was intended to point out for the purpose of removal matters

00:11:52.540 producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred towards an identifiable group in Canada. Let me

00:11:57.740 translate into plain English. Absolutely that will be used as an argument by Hamas supporters that they

00:12:04.860 were flying the Nazi flags not as self-identification but as accusations against the Jews to reveal what the

00:12:13.820 Jewish Nazis are doing. That's what they say. Of course that would say that in a court of law and according

00:12:20.300 to the bill that would be a defense. Look, you cannot use the law to change a feeling in someone's heart.

00:12:28.460 If you're serious about stopping hatred, you pretty much have to do that in your immigration policy,

00:12:35.180 not in your after-the-fact police charges. And that's why I'm worried about this law because I 100% know

00:12:42.220 who is going to actually be targeted by it. You might see one or two token charges against terrorist

00:12:48.940 flag flyers, maybe. Maybe one a year. Though I haven't seen any charges for terrorism lately,

00:12:55.500 even though synagogues and Jewish schools are vandalized so often it doesn't even make the news

00:13:00.140 anymore. I mean, look at this story. Police investigating after North York synagogue vandalized

00:13:06.140 for 10th time. Yeah, that's just what police and politicians consider acceptable in Canada now.

00:13:15.580 That's the new normal in Canada now. No charges. I mean, 10 attacks on this synagogue? If police cared,

00:13:23.020 surely they'd set up a camera of some sort or even actually stake it out. But they don't really care,

00:13:31.100 do they? I'll keep moving. The new law defines hatred, which is interesting. They say hatred

00:13:37.260 means the emotion that involves detestation or vilification and that is stronger than disdain

00:13:42.860 or dislike. All right. Okay. So again, we're back to regulating emotions now. Funny, whenever some

00:13:48.780 anti-Semitic criminal gets arrested, some terrorist, they're never called hate criminals, are they? 0.99

00:13:54.140 They're always called mentally ill, aren't they? All right. Back to the bill. They've revived the 0.99

00:14:00.620 online harms act proposal of having a standalone hate crime. This is actually the worst part of the bill.

00:14:07.740 Quote, everyone who commits an offense referred to in this section as the included offense under this

00:14:14.460 act or any act of parliament, if the commission of the included offense is motivated

00:14:18.460 by hatred based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, color, religion, sex, age,

00:14:24.460 mental or physical disability, sexual orientation or gender identity or expression,

00:14:32.940 is guilty of an indictable offense and liable to punishment provided for in subsection five,

00:14:38.700 or guilty of an offense punishable on summary conviction. You could be, if you're charged with

00:14:44.380 any law in the country, if you feel hate in your heart at the same time, you can be also charged

00:14:50.300 under this standalone hate crime, including if you disagree with or an antagonistic to someone's

00:14:58.140 gender identity. Gee, I wonder who they're going to use this against. And here's the penalty.

00:15:03.100 Everyone who is found guilty of an indictable offense under subsection one is liable to a term of

00:15:08.940 imprisonment of not more than, and then they have this sort of chart. Depends on the original offense.

00:15:16.140 It could be five years. It could be 10 years. It could be 14 years or absolutely incredible.

00:15:23.100 If the life, if the maximum term of imprisonment for the included offense

00:15:30.700 is 14 years or more, up to life in prison, just for the feelings you have in your heart,

00:15:38.140 this is a different offense than whatever crime you may commit.

00:15:42.940 You don't get life in prison even for murder in Canada, I don't think. But you'll get life in prison

00:15:48.220 for having very strong feelings of detestation. That shows you the priorities of this government,

00:15:52.780 doesn't it? All right, next section of the bill. Every person commits an offense who engages in

00:15:59.100 any conduct with the intent to provoke a state of fear in a person in order to impede their access

00:16:04.700 to a building or structure or part of a building or structure that's primarily used for religious

00:16:09.420 worship or by an identifiable group as defined in subsection 318.4, for administrative, social,

00:16:15.660 cultural, or sports activities or events, as an educational institution, including a daycare center,

00:16:20.940 or as a residence for seniors or a cemetery. So this is basically designed to stop pro-hammas extremists

00:16:28.940 from standing outside synagogues and harassing Jews and shouting at them and blocking them at

00:16:35.180 synagogues or other Jewish places. That is the only thing that's been happening in Canada. That has

00:16:40.300 never happened to a mosque in Canada. I've never heard of it happen to a church, but it happens routinely

00:16:45.740 to synagogues in Canada with no consequence, by the way. Here's one of the worst of these about a year 1.00

00:16:53.420 ago in Thornhill.

00:17:09.180 Go to the other side! No, we're not in Gaza. We're not under Sharia law, sir. Go to the other side! 0.99

00:17:14.140 They have every right to protest. They could do it at a peaceful place like City Hall, but not in front

00:17:18.700 of a synagogue.

00:17:26.700 Your house?

00:17:28.700 Your house?

00:17:30.700 What's your house?

00:17:32.700 That's not my house.

00:17:34.700 No, it's not her house.

00:17:36.700 We are here because this place of worship has chosen to make for a venue, a real estate

00:17:42.700 venue to sell illegally occupied land.

00:17:46.700 But here's the thing. Hassling people at a synagogue or church or mosque, it's already illegal. It's been

00:17:53.980 in the criminal code for decades. It's just that the police refuse to lay any charges.

00:17:59.580 The law is, I remember it off by heart because I remember talking about it so much during

00:18:03.740 COVID times, section 176 too. Everyone who willfully disturbs or interrupts an assemblage of persons

00:18:10.300 met for religious worship or for a moral, social or benevolent purpose is guilty of an offense.

00:18:15.980 So that's already on the books.

00:18:18.860 I mean, it couldn't be clear if you hassle a church or synagogue, that's against the law.

00:18:24.860 But police refuse to enforce it.

00:18:27.420 A year or so ago, I asked Ontario Solicitor General, who's in charge of police and prosecutions,

00:18:32.300 I said, why haven't you done this? Now, he happens to be Jewish himself, by the way.

00:18:36.220 Right. Here's how he answered that question. How come there were no charges under section 176 to

00:18:41.820 the criminal code besetting a house of worship when all those protesters were outside the Bayat

00:18:47.340 synagogue in Thornhill?

00:18:49.180 Well, it's a question that you're going to have to ask the York Regional Police or the Attorney General.

00:18:53.820 I'm here because I'm not going to see my community intimidated.

00:18:57.740 I speak out all the time in support of our Jewish community. I'm not afraid to wear my kippah.

00:19:03.820 I'm not afraid to go to synagogue every every Sabbath, every Shabbat. And I'm going to do

00:19:09.020 everything that I can to stand up for our inherent right to live safely in our own homes and communities.

00:19:15.260 And I'm not going to stop everything short of prosecuting them, though, right? I mean,

00:19:18.860 the U of T remains encamped with an illegal encampment. You're very good on Twitter,

00:19:24.220 but have you actually done any prosecutions? Well, again, this is something that you have

00:19:28.700 to speak to the Attorney General. He's your colleague. You're in the government. You're on

00:19:32.700 the inside. No, what I can tell you is I'm working every day to ensure that our legislation,

00:19:39.100 that our regulations are adhered to. I'm standing up with my community. I've been 34 weeks almost every

00:19:45.900 single week to the rally of Bathurst and Shepherd in support of remembering the hostages who have been

00:19:51.980 held against their will in captivity in Gaza. And it's not acceptable. And that's exactly and that's

00:19:58.780 exactly why it obviously is acceptable since you're not prosecuting it. You have condoned it.

00:20:03.660 You've created a new normal where people can engage in low level, permanent anti-Semitic crimes,

00:20:10.780 assault, threats, mischief, because you guys don't prosecute. But there you are on Twitter,

00:20:15.740 though. So congrats for that. It's important that the Jewish community

00:20:19.740 sees a person from their own community in the Ontario legislature standing up against hate

00:20:25.660 every single day who has the support of a Premier who has called it out. Where are the other levels

00:20:31.500 of government today who exercise the same voice that Premier Ford does that we will not accept

00:20:39.420 anti-Semitism? We have accepted it. Where's the prosecution? Again, this is something you could 0.98

00:20:45.900 ask Minister Varani. You can ask the Prime Minister. The province. The province prosecutes. The province

00:20:52.460 prosecutes. Better save your boss. So yeah, a duplicate law. If we don't enforce the first law,

00:21:00.700 why would we enforce the second law? Police, prosecutors. There's a 10-year term associated

00:21:06.300 with it. But so what? Why would it be used if the replica law isn't being used now? And look at this.

00:21:11.420 Exception. No person is guilty of an offense under subsection 2 by reason only that they attend at or

00:21:19.020 near or approach a building or structure referred to in paragraph 1a or a cemetery for purpose only of

00:21:25.740 obtaining or communicating information. Got it. So again, these Hamas supporters will absolutely claim 0.71

00:21:32.860 that they were there to communicate information, namely that they think Jews are the new Nazis,

00:21:37.660 that Hamas is legitimate, that Israel should be cleared from the river to the sea, that the Intifada 0.98

00:21:43.100 race riots should be made international. These are the things they say with complete impunity now.

00:21:49.500 And if this last section says that they're merely communicating to those Jews how odious they are, 1.00

00:21:55.500 no problem. So what does this law really do? What is it really about?

00:21:59.580 I suppose it is new in that it bans people from flying terrorist flags. Do you really think that's

00:22:07.020 going to be enforced? I don't. It bans Nazi flags, but you saw the wrinkle here only for actual Nazis.

00:22:15.100 Palestinians, pro-Hamas activists, can still use the Nazi flag to accuse Jews of being Nazis. So my reading 0.83

00:22:25.660 of this law is if you actually support Nazism, you cannot use the Nazi swastika. But if you're accusing

00:22:33.820 the Jews of being Nazis, you can fly the Nazi flags. That's permitted. Hamas supporters cannot 0.93

00:22:40.940 intimidate Jewish synagogues. All right. But again, the law already says that, but it is never enforced. 0.80

00:22:47.260 And if it's never enforced, and if it is ever enforced, the Hamas protesters can simply say,

00:22:52.780 we were just communicating to the Jews inside. They're going to win that in the court. 0.99

00:22:57.900 So the only real thing here is the new standalone hate crime punishable by up to life in prison.

00:23:05.420 That's really the only new thing here. And who do you think is more likely for that to be used against?

00:23:13.580 Hamas supporters or some Canadian trucker who irritates the prime minister?

00:23:20.140 Stay with us for more.

00:23:31.820 Whenever I go to Europe, one of the things on my mind is the Islamification of society. When I was in 1.00

00:23:36.940 Birmingham a couple of weeks ago to see what that town was like when a Jewish-Israeli football team

00:23:43.260 came to town, it was sort of incredible. Before the game, I had to find a bank machine and I went to

00:23:50.140 about four of them before I found one in the city that worked. And in each of the places I went,

00:23:54.620 just in a neighborhood, I thought, oh, I'm in the Muslim neighborhood. And after my fourth ATM visit,

00:24:01.740 I realized that Birmingham is the Muslim neighborhood of Birmingham. It's almost a majority

00:24:08.940 of the city. Now, of course, thank God, most Muslims are not terrorists. They're just regular people

00:24:14.060 going about their lives. But there is a new radicalism I see in the UK, especially in parts

00:24:20.060 like Birmingham, where there's a critical mass of Muslim voters. And instead of just voting for a pro-Islam

00:24:26.300 labor party, they're actually electing Islamic candidates running in the last election on the

00:24:32.140 Lend Gaza your vote ticket. It's quite extraordinary to see Islamism grow and in some areas be so dominant 1.00

00:24:40.220 that it can sustain its own movement. Quite something to see. If I was one of the handful

00:24:45.500 of Jews left in Birmingham, I'd be making plans to get out, if not just the city, then frankly, 1.00

00:24:50.700 maybe the country in general. I see something less progress, but on the same trajectory when I'm in

00:24:56.780 Ireland, when I'm in the Netherlands, in some parts of Amsterdam, when I'm in Sweden, in Malmo, when I'm

00:25:03.740 in France, in places like Marseille, it's the same trend. America is not as progressed in this trend,

00:25:11.580 but there is a radicalism that is coming to that country. Of course, it has suffered some of the worst

00:25:17.020 terrorist attacks, 9-11 being the one that is the most obvious. But there is a bit of a reaction to it.

00:25:24.140 It's as if the rest of the world has been some sort of an alarm. For example, about a week ago,

00:25:29.580 the governor of Texas, Governor Greg Abbott, designated not only the Muslim Brotherhood, but

00:25:35.580 CARE, the Council of American Islam Relations, if I got the acronym right. And by the way, we have

00:25:42.860 a branch of that in Canada called the National Council of Canadian Muslims, ANCCM. So the governor of

00:25:50.060 the state of Texas, I think that's the second or third largest state in America, deeming them a

00:25:55.820 terrorist group. And just yesterday, Donald Trump saying that the Muslim Brotherhood itself, at least

00:26:01.020 certain branches of it, are now declared a terrorist group. That's a massive change. We'll take a lot of

00:26:06.940 momentum out of the Islamification of America, put a lot of fundraisers and activists on the back foot. 0.85

00:26:13.420 What does all this mean? Well, I think there's one person who probably follows us more closely

00:26:17.820 than most. His name is Sam Westrop. He's the director of Islamist Watch, a project of the

00:26:24.140 Middle East Forum. And he joins us now from Fort Worth, Texas. Sam, nice to see you. Thanks for taking

00:26:29.900 the time. Well, thank you for having me. It's an interesting moment in the news for my subject.

00:26:35.020 So I'm glad to talk about it. Yeah. Now, first of all, did I get my recitation of facts correct?

00:26:40.620 What exactly did the governor of Texas ban and what is his ability to ban things? I mean, I don't know

00:26:48.860 the constitutional differences between a governor of a state and the president of the United States.

00:26:54.380 What did the governor of Texas do? Maybe start there and then I'll ask you a little more about

00:26:58.940 what Trump did just yesterday. So the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, put out a declaration that

00:27:06.300 the Brotherhood, the Muslim Brotherhood and a group named the Council on American Islamic Relations or CARE,

00:27:11.740 as you mentioned, are now designated entities within the state of Texas. The actual legal implications

00:27:18.060 of this are a little hard to tell. And certainly the governor's office has said little other than this

00:27:23.980 will prohibit or at least place limits on a group like CARE's ability to own property in Texas.

00:27:32.700 So for the moment, it looks more symbolic than a practical effort. That said, the governor has

00:27:40.060 instructed the Department of Public Safety, which is the body overseeing state law enforcement in Texas,

00:27:46.700 to now investigate the Muslim Brotherhood's reach in the state. So maybe we'll see something

00:27:51.020 tangible come out of this as well. Now, accompanying all of that, the governor has also warned

00:27:57.340 that two Sharia courts or Islamic tribunals, as he calls them, are operating in North Texas against,

00:28:05.260 he claims, Texas law. So certainly, Texas politicians look ready for a fight. And they have latched onto

00:28:13.100 the Brotherhood as the most obvious target when it comes to the subject of radical Islam.

00:28:17.660 You know, this follows on the footsteps of Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida. I remember shortly

00:28:23.500 after October 7, 2023, he designated some on-campus groups that were using terrorist material. He banned

00:28:33.820 them. I think he had to walk a fine line at being America, the home of the First Amendment. It was very

00:28:40.060 interesting to see how they protected speech and criticism. Criticism of Israel was permitted,

00:28:46.380 but those who were working with actual terrorist groups using their terrorist propaganda. Those

00:28:53.740 groups were banned from Florida universities. I thought it was very interesting. And I like watching

00:29:01.420 these American governors use all the levers of power they have, because that's not been how it's been

00:29:08.860 for Republicans. Democrats use every single lever of power to get their will through. This might

00:29:16.460 be a bit of a stretch. This might be more symbolic than anything. But to me, that's great. It's a sign that,

00:29:22.860 you know, up and coming politicians in America are still willing to fight these battles.

00:29:27.900 Well, let me let me be a little negative about the Texas move, because I welcome

00:29:35.500 Governor Abbott's interest in the subject. But there is a broader question here of Islamism in the

00:29:40.380 state. The Brotherhood is not the leading Islamist group active in Texas. There are multiple Islamist

00:29:47.740 movements from multiple ethnic and ideological backgrounds that pose a threat. The Iranian regime runs 0.87

00:29:53.180 directly runs mosques down in Houston. The Salafis have entities in North Texas. The Deobandis, a very 0.96

00:30:01.660 important South Asian sect from which the Taliban emerged, has institutions all over the state. There

00:30:07.340 is a very diverse radical threat in Texas. And my worry is that when politicians latch on to names like the

00:30:15.180 Muslim Brotherhood, they hyper fixate on this entity and allow the other Islamist groups to flourish in the 1.00

00:30:21.020 background. So, yes, the focus on Islamism is good. Let's hope they take a broader view than just the

00:30:27.820 Brotherhood, not just for the sake of the Jews in the state, but for the safety of all its citizens.

00:30:34.060 These groups are indelibly tied to violence, to extremism abroad, to foreign terrorist groups abroad,

00:30:38.940 but also to radicalization here at home. And you mentioned Europe in your introduction. One of the things

00:30:45.020 the government found after years of young European Muslims rushing off to join ISIS or commit acts of

00:30:49.740 terror at home. The one thing they all had in common, they'd grown up within schools, communities, mosques

00:30:55.820 controlled by these Islamist groups. The Brotherhood is the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot to do here. 0.96

00:31:00.780 And I hope Governor Abbott follows through. You know, that's a very good point. I mean,

00:31:06.140 if it's the showiest thing and it's a big fuss, but it's not the actual problem on the ground,

00:31:12.700 then you could even say he's playing us. He's throwing us a bone in the most showy way,

00:31:19.580 which is my worry about Donald Trump's statement. Now, again, not for a second do I regret that Trump

00:31:26.220 has issued, I think it's an executive order. Yeah. Let me just read from the White House press release

00:31:33.900 here. Today, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing the Secretary of State

00:31:40.380 and the Secretary of the Treasury to consider whether certain chapters of the Muslim Brotherhood should be

00:31:45.580 designated as foreign terrorist organizations. The terrorist, the chapters in Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan.

00:31:54.540 It mandates the Secretary of State to take action within 45 days. And the aim is to eliminate the

00:32:00.860 designated chapters, capabilities and operations, deprive them of resources and end any threat

00:32:06.780 posed to the United States. Well, it's tough to argue with that. But I've seen some critics online

00:32:13.500 who are smarter than me point out, by focusing on those three countries, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan,

00:32:21.260 the Muslim Brotherhood is banned there already, I'm told. And this omits two of the largest

00:32:27.740 benefactors of the Muslim Brotherhood, Turkey and Qatar. And so, again, I'm happy that Trump is doing 1.00

00:32:34.780 this. I'm glad he's still fighting the good fight. But I'm worried if this isn't just, hey, look over

00:32:40.540 here while I bravely go after the weak banned chapters, pay no attention to the Qataris and the Turks over there. 1.00

00:32:49.660 Well, this is somewhat an echo of my point about Texas, right? That we're focusing

00:32:54.940 on the Brotherhood where, as we should be focusing perhaps on Turkey, Qatar, but there's others I could

00:32:59.740 add to that list. You know, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Day of Bandis, the Salafis, the Iranian regime's 0.62

00:33:05.340 proxies and so on. There's more that can be done, certainly. And as I said before, the Brotherhood is 0.61

00:33:12.300 the tip of the iceberg. But this also brings into the question, what is the Brotherhood? Is it the

00:33:19.020 Egyptian organization known as the Muslim Brotherhood, or is it every branch that a Brotherhood member has

00:33:23.820 ever founded? Is it every diaspora organization that someone sympathetic to the Brotherhood has

00:33:28.620 established? The term is used loosely. For example, the Lebanese Brotherhood, as the White House calls

00:33:34.860 it in the designation, is in fact Jama' al-Islamiyah. Sorry, al-Islamiyah. Jama' al-Islamiyah was not

00:33:41.660 founded by Brotherhood members. It was founded by people sympathetic to the Brotherhood. So does that make

00:33:46.860 it a Brotherhood group? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we are very loose with

00:33:52.380 our definition of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is why a designation has been so difficult in the past,

00:33:58.220 because what exactly are you designating? My suggested solution to this is be explicit.

00:34:04.700 Name Qatar as an enemy of the United States. Name Turkey and its Turkish Islamist proxies as enemies of 0.95

00:34:09.980 the United States. Designate South Asian Islamist movements like Jama'ati Islami. Designate certain 0.93

00:34:16.140 Salafi and Dayabandi groups. Don't refer to them as Muslim Brotherhood offshoots or branches,

00:34:21.580 as too many commentators do. Be explicit about the Islamist networks and organizations that threaten

00:34:28.380 American and Canadian lives and interests. This is the way to proceed. Now, my final contention

00:34:35.660 with the designation. And again, I welcome the interest from the political classes on this

00:34:40.540 subject. I'm glad they're doing something. But my final contention is enforcement. Remember,

00:34:45.820 Hamas is already a designated organization in the United States. But two years since October 7th

00:34:51.500 attacks, has a single Hamas financier, charity or supporter been prosecuted in the United States

00:34:56.460 or even investigated? No. So designated organizations do not necessarily get prosecuted,

00:35:02.700 investigated or suppressed in any way. So there's a risk here. This designation again is for show

00:35:07.580 and doesn't lead for anything. Now, I'll be working very hard to make sure it does lead to something.

00:35:11.740 But, you know, those two points still stand. This is a far broader issue and it requires real

00:35:16.620 political follow up. Those are excellent points. You know, recently, Trump called to the White House a

00:35:23.420 number of journalists and activists who have been physically attacked by Antifa, including our friend Andy

00:35:30.460 and other journalists we very much respect. And it was interesting to me that at that moment,

00:35:36.780 Trump issued an executive order naming Antifa as a terrorist group. And the exact same questions

00:35:43.420 came to mind because Antifa, their defenders will say, oh, it's not an organization. It's a spirit.

00:35:50.540 It's a movement. It's like hipsters. It's something you do. It's something you affiliate with.

00:35:56.140 There's no membership card. Now, there's some truth to that. There are some groups that absolutely

00:36:02.700 call themselves Antifa. And I wonder, well, what would happen if they simply changed their name?

00:36:07.660 I think that's the same thing here. If you say the Muslim Brotherhood are bad dudes. All right. Well, 0.99

00:36:12.460 what if the same people just operate under a different now? I mean, maybe there are excellent,

00:36:18.700 easy solutions to these very basic questions I'm asking. I'm sure that others have asked these

00:36:26.380 questions before me and in a smarter way. But as you point out, even if something as tangible as Hamas

00:36:33.340 has been, you know, a terrorist group for years, what steps? I mean, I mean, part of it is Trump is

00:36:39.740 dealing with Hamas in the negotiations. He's dealing with the terrorist, the former terrorist leader,

00:36:47.420 Syria. So I suppose on the one hand, you can't negotiate with someone you're killing. 1.00

00:36:52.380 But I don't know. I think you're right. I think the real test will come in six,

00:36:58.540 12, 18 months. What exactly has Trump done?

00:37:02.300 Yeah. Unfortunately, the refusal to prosecute Hamas has been a constant policy, a consistent

00:37:07.980 policy of the United States since 2008, since the last time it prosecuted a Hamas entity,

00:37:12.860 the Holy Land Foundation. Since that point, Hamas has not only been not prosecuted in the United 0.57

00:37:18.540 States, but many of its charities and front groups have received federal funding, have enjoyed the

00:37:22.540 partnership of government. There's a lot of evidence to suggest they're a protected source

00:37:26.780 for the US intelligence and law enforcement. And indeed, that was certainly the case in Europe as well.

00:37:31.420 Your point about the change of name, undoing a designation is very well made. In fact, there's a lot of

00:37:37.260 evidence for this in Europe. You might remember the name Anjum Chowdhury, a very prominent Salafi

00:37:41.900 jihadist creature in the UK.

00:37:43.260 I've interviewed him.

00:37:45.420 Well, then you very much know him. He has simply, every time his group has been banned as a terrorist

00:37:50.380 organization by the British government, has just changed the name of his organization and reset up

00:37:54.940 under that group. You're absolutely right. The same will happen here. In fact, the same already has

00:37:59.740 happened here. The American descendants of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood operate under entirely 0.68

00:38:05.100 different names. And they set up new organizations every day. I track hundreds of Islamist organizations

00:38:12.140 with ties to original Muslim Brotherhood founders. And every time they get in a bit of trouble,

00:38:15.820 they set up five more organizations. No, this is absolutely what's going to happen. So, as I said,

00:38:21.980 the Brotherhood is the tip of the iceberg. A far broader approach is needed. And once I see law 0.93

00:38:28.460 enforcement setting up task forces, I see prosecutions, indictments made, I see state governments and

00:38:34.700 local police start to understand the sheer enormity and extent of the threat, then I'll know that the

00:38:39.980 political class is truly paying attention. At the moment, this is a good first step, but we're not

00:38:45.900 there yet. Yeah. Hey, I got one question for you. In the past, individual victims of terrorist groups

00:38:54.220 have hired lawyers and made private lawsuits in New York or other places and have won victories.

00:39:03.900 Obviously, the terrorists do not show up in court to defend. So, you're sort of shooting on an open

00:39:11.260 net. But even so, the judges put them through the paces, put them to proof of damages. So, you have

00:39:16.620 these judgments and then you try and execute this judgment against a bank account somewhere or some

00:39:23.900 property somewhere. Has that ever been successful in the past? Because maybe

00:39:29.100 maybe at least these designations gives you something to go before a judge and say, hey,

00:39:36.620 judge, this is a terrorist group. Here's proof that this terrorist group harmed my specific clients.

00:39:43.740 Now let me collect from whatever Swiss bank account or I don't know. Has that ever worked before? I

00:39:53.260 don't know how those cases ended. And I don't know if they could be done again.

00:39:57.180 Unless the defendant was a state with possible assets to seize, it has not worked in the past.

00:40:06.300 However, there are efforts going on at the moment to persuade US courts that certain Islamist

00:40:11.980 organizations are alter egos of foreign terrorists and foreign terrorist proxies. And should those efforts

00:40:18.700 be successful, we may well see Islamist groups in the US, uh, uh, financially punished by virtue of 0.99

00:40:26.620 these designations and these alter ego, uh, attempts in courts, you know, and finally satisfy the demands

00:40:32.220 of some of these, these court cases. Um, look, this, this, this speaks as to the big problem of the

00:40:38.140 follow-up from the designation. You know, it's one thing saying the Muslim Brotherhood is banned. Well,

00:40:41.980 even if you take those groups in the US, Islam is seen most closely aligned with the Brotherhood.

00:40:46.540 Now you have to prove they are part of the Brotherhood. And remember, the Egyptian Brotherhood is not 0.91

00:40:50.540 only no longer in control of a global movement anymore, but itself is split into many parts.

00:40:55.100 It collapsed in Egypt about 10 years ago. So there's a, there's a leadership in Istanbul,

00:40:58.780 a leadership in Doha, some remnants in London, all competing with each other for control.

00:41:03.100 So who is, who are the US Islamists reporting to? If they are at all, they're probably not. So

00:41:09.180 proving amid the chaos that these groups in the United States, such as CARE and such

00:41:15.260 as the dozen other organizations that emerged from the Brotherhood Nexus over the past few decades,

00:41:20.220 are still connected to the groups in the Middle East that have been designated, is a whole other

00:41:25.500 barrier to cross. I would much rather see the government take steps to start investigating

00:41:32.860 the American organizations directly. Remember, many of these groups, including CARE,

00:41:36.780 were named as unindicted co-conspirators. And a massive terrorist financing case in 2008,

00:41:41.420 of the Holy Land Foundation, Hamas Front Group. There is good legal reason for American law enforcement 0.88

00:41:46.940 to be investigating already. We don't need a designation for them to do that. Just as we

00:41:51.020 don't need a designation to start investigating Hamas, which is already designated under US law.

00:41:56.780 So it really takes political will and law enforcement savvy and guts to change the current status quo.

00:42:06.220 So yeah, this current designation, unless there's the follow up, I know I'm sounding like a broken

00:42:10.940 record here, but unless there's follow up, it may lead to nothing.

00:42:15.900 Well, it's a very interesting turn of events. And even if it's just symbolic, I think there is some

00:42:20.540 value in it. It's reminding Americans of the fact that they are under threat, that there are still bad

00:42:26.540 guys in the world. And in a way, it's a slightly conflicting message with Trump,

00:42:31.420 you know, calling the Qataris great partners in the negotiation. And like, I mean, I guess that's

00:42:38.300 the thing about peace treaties, is you make them with your enemies. So you have to forgive a guy

00:42:43.820 for hanging out with evil people if his goal is to end a conflict. I can understand that. But

00:42:51.420 how long is that suspension of morality appropriate? We'll find out. Anyway, very interesting time.

00:42:58.540 Sam Westbrook of Islamist Watch. Great to spend some time with you. Thanks for giving us the info.

00:43:04.060 Thank you so much for having me.

00:43:05.420 All right. Our pleasure. There he is, Sam Westbrook. And he's part of the Middle East Forum.

00:43:10.140 Stay with us. Your letters to me next.

00:43:12.460 Hey, welcome back. Your letters to me. About the ongoing anti-Israel demonstrations in Toronto,

00:43:28.540 Claudette Viancourt says, we need ice. You're exactly right. I mean, if someone's a Canadian citizen, 1.00

00:43:35.180 they have certain tenure here. They have certain rights here. But many of these activists are

00:43:39.580 foreigners who are here as our guests. Either they're temporary foreign workers, 1.00

00:43:43.980 or they're students, or they're here on some privilege, not some right. They should absolutely

00:43:49.820 be kicked out. It would be like if in your own home, if you had a Christmas party at home,

00:43:54.780 and someone, one of your family members was being really rude and acting up.

00:43:59.100 I suppose you have to abide it. But if it was some guest, some stranger who's getting really,

00:44:03.420 kick them out. I think a self-respecting country would. Johanna DFI says, police are peacekeepers.

00:44:11.020 Not fair to put this on them. They don't come with flags in my neighborhood. Thank God. This is Canada. 0.97

00:44:16.140 Well, are police peacekeepers, or are they law enforcement officers? And what about when these

00:44:21.500 protesters engage in harassment, or assault, or uttering threats? They've done all those things.

00:44:27.020 I've seen it. And the police give them a wide berth. I think it's a political decision.

00:44:32.860 John D says, Danielle Smith is sucking up to Carney and giving him a huge PR win.

00:44:37.980 Wasn't on my bingo card. Alberta got no guarantee of a pipeline. They still have to convince the BC

00:44:43.260 NDP and communist natives to accept one. She just screwed Polyev and all of Canada. 1.00

00:44:47.900 Well, I don't think the final, you're talking about a pipeline deal. And apparently on Thursday,

00:44:52.860 Danielle Smith and Mark Carney, the prime minister are going to have an announcement.

00:44:56.140 We'll see what that announcement looks like, but I'm worried about the same things you are.

00:45:01.260 Let's see what the announcement is. Canada needs a new pipeline, needs several new pipelines.

00:45:06.860 Of course, if it's just going to be loaded up with all sorts of

00:45:10.380 graft and grift, like carbon sequestration, this and net zero, that those are things that I understand

00:45:17.420 why Brookfield would want. But it makes no sense to attach those barnacles to a Canadian deal. We'll

00:45:23.020 see. I think we'll have the news on that as soon as Thursday. That's our show for today. Until

00:45:28.460 tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home,

00:45:31.980 goodnight, and keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - November 26, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Liberals push Nazi symbol ban to distract from the real problem

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