Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Maxime Bernier came in a distant second in the by-election last night. So what happens now？

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. Last night, Maxime Bernier placed second in the by-election in Portage

00:00:05.880 Lisger, but he didn't have the breakthrough he was hoping for. And in fact, the conservative

00:00:09.940 vote increased. What does that mean for Bernier and the People's Party? I'll give you my deep

00:00:15.200 thoughts on the subject. But first let me invite you to subscribe to Rebel News Plus. That's the

00:00:19.780 video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. It's

00:00:24.420 eight bucks a month. It's not a lot of money to you, I know, but it's a lot of money to us when

00:00:28.780 it adds up. You get enough people chipping eight bucks a month. You can run a whole company on

00:00:32.800 that. And we need to, my friends, because we will never take money from Trudeau, not that he would

00:00:37.920 offer it. So we have to be independent. We need to rely on our viewers. Please go to rebelnewsplus.com.

00:00:43.500 All right, here's today's show.

00:00:58.780 Tonight, Maxime Bernier came in a distant second in the by-election last night. So

00:01:05.580 what happens now? It's June 20th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:09.840 You've got it for freedom!

00:01:12.940 Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:01:16.140 We like Maxime Bernier. I've known the man for 20 years, ever since he was at the Montreal Economic

00:01:31.160 Institute. I like his style and his ideology. I like that he's energetic and doesn't seem to care

00:01:36.520 what the media party says about him. He was a cabinet minister under Stephen Harper, of course,

00:01:41.800 and then he ran against Andrew Scheer for the party leadership in 2017 to succeed Harper. And it was

00:01:48.380 quite something, if you recall, it went to 13 different ballots. Bernier was leading for the

00:01:54.180 first 12 ballots, and only on the last one did Andrew Scheer squeak ahead 51% to 49% under the

00:02:02.020 party's quirky point system. It was quite something. Bernier was stylish and fit and talkative and

00:02:09.220 French. Scheer was dull and introverted and inexperienced. He was Speaker of the House of

00:02:14.900 Commons for years, so I suppose he was experienced, but really he didn't have a track record of fighting

00:02:19.860 for anything, really. The Speaker of the House is neutral, doesn't vote on things. He never fought

00:02:25.380 for a bill, he never really fought a campaign, he never had a tough scrum. After his first election, I

00:02:32.020 think he went into diplomat mode. It was like he was frozen in time for the eight years of Stephen Harper's

00:02:37.860 tenure. So he had no scandals, I suppose, but he also had no track record of anything, no experience

00:02:43.700 campaigning going up against the bruising battles of the liberals or their media regime. Bernier was

00:02:49.860 libertarian, Scheer was social conservative, but like I say, Scheer lacked the courage of his

00:02:54.180 convictions. He'd never really been in a fight before. He panicked about everything. He bent the

00:02:59.780 knee to the media, especially to the CBC. I remember when he went full coward about us,

00:03:05.140 even though his right hand man was a co-founder of Rebel News with me. Andrew Scheer, let's begin

00:03:10.260 with your decision earlier this week. You said you will not grant any further interviews to Rebel

00:03:14.820 Media for as long as its editorial direction remains as is. So what is it specifically about the editorial

00:03:22.420 direction that led you to that decision? Well, first and foremost, you know, it's very important

00:03:30.100 me to send a very clear signal that the Conservative Party of Canada has always been a party that is

00:03:36.260 inclusive and tolerant and open to members of every different ethnic community that call Canada home

00:03:43.540 and that chose to make this wonderful country where they want to grow and raise their families. And

00:03:49.940 like I was just disgusted by what I saw in Charlottesville on the weekend, that kind of hatred

00:03:56.340 and vile displays of intolerance just need to be denounced. And I understand that there's a fine

00:04:02.580 line when it comes to journalism between reporting on facts, reporting on what's going on and giving a

00:04:08.100 platform or in any way kind of legitimizing what may be going on. And I felt that that line was

00:04:13.380 was crossed on the weekend. And so I just decided, you know, I'm not going to lend my platform to

00:04:18.740 to those or, you know, institutions or outlets that that may may be doing that. So, you know, I'm here with

00:04:25.380 a positive message. And I want to get that message out in a positive way to as many Canadians as I can.

00:04:29.540 What was it specifically that you saw that led you to the decision?

00:04:35.860 As I said, I just felt that that line between saying, okay, here's what's going on. Here's an

00:04:40.260 important event that may be happening. You know, people obviously need to be aware when there are

00:04:44.500 good things happening, when there are bad things happening. You know, that's what media outlets do.

00:04:49.140 They cover on events. But, you know, when when when people are given an extra platform or or,

00:04:54.500 you know, in any way an outlet starts to concur or legitimize some of the the aspects around that,

00:05:00.980 that's not where I want to go. I don't want to see anybody with those kinds of views have that.

00:05:07.220 So the fact that they were on the air, the white supremacists were on the air. I mean,

00:05:10.740 what what was it specifically that you saw where you said, okay, I can't be part of this?

00:05:15.380 What was the moment? Like, as I said, it was just it was the nature of the coverage. It was the way

00:05:20.980 that, you know, in any way that that outlet or the people involved in producing those shows kind

00:05:25.700 of went beyond just saying here's what's happening and and and, you know, gave that an extra legitimacy

00:05:30.820 or voice, you know, in any way kind of concurring or validating some of the points. And I felt that

00:05:35.140 that was going on while that was happening. You know, I'm an open accessible politician. I don't think

00:05:40.660 you want politicians or or prime ministers or premiers or, you know, members of parliament

00:05:46.020 deciding what is or what isn't legitimate news outlets or journalism. We believe in freedom of

00:05:51.620 the press. You know, even the liberals fought to to make sure that the rebel was included at the United

00:05:57.300 Nations climate change talks. I think Canada is, you know, respects that that that history of an

00:06:03.700 independent profession when it comes to the press. But when it comes to granting exclusive interviews,

00:06:09.060 when it comes to kind of, you know, seeking an outlet where I would talk directly to get my vision out,

00:06:13.780 what my positive messages for Canadians based on what happened on the weekend. I just think that

00:06:18.740 going forward, I'll be looking at other types of outlets that that don't, you know, blur that line

00:06:24.740 or cross that line into giving that kind of legitimacy to those kinds of groups. Look, Andrew,

00:06:28.980 they're not going to be any nicer to you just because you turned on us. And indeed, they weren't. Even after

00:06:34.580 the CBC literally filed a lawsuit against him right in the middle of the election, he still kept going

00:06:40.100 on their shows. It's like he thought he could charm them into liking him. What an idiot. He blew it.

00:06:47.780 Of course, it just got worse with Aaron O'Toole, who ran as a full blown liberal. I mean, seriously,

00:06:52.420 come on, a carbon tax. Andrew Scheer sucked up to the CBC thinking they would like him. But now Aaron

00:06:58.340 O'Toole sucked up to the liberals thinking they would like him. What a disappointment. He's gone

00:07:04.020 now. But he popped up on TV again. I think I showed you this the other day. He's got advice

00:07:08.420 for Pierre Polyev on how to win, which seems to be do exactly what he did to lose.

00:07:13.940 You know, the Conservatives won the popular vote in the last two elections. It just wasn't efficient

00:07:18.580 enough. And Mr. Trudeau, some of the polarization is actually focusing and over delivering your small

00:07:25.300 cohorts. So he's now won two minority governments with a smaller popular vote and in some elections

00:07:32.100 being virtually shut out in certain provinces of the country. So I think had the pandemic not been a

00:07:38.180 part of the discussion, I had a lot of fiscal Conservatives that wanted to see the Conservatives

00:07:44.580 with a smart plan on the environment. A lot of business leaders, for example, or small business

00:07:49.460 owners that wanted to make sure they lowered emissions for their kids, but were worried about

00:07:55.380 our competitiveness, worried about trade relations, thought Mr. Trudeau's ethics were questionable.

00:08:00.020 So there's a bunch of voters that want to see the Conservatives address all issues. I think Pierre

00:08:05.940 will do that. Yeah, Aaron O'Toole is sort of the only guy in the universe who cannot give advice

00:08:12.580 on how to win, because he doesn't know how. But hey, the media has a strange new respect for Aaron

00:08:18.820 O'Toole now that he is no longer an actual threat to Trudeau and in fact seems to be criticizing

00:08:24.340 Pierre Polyev. O'Toole was terrified of Rebel News also. I mean, I interviewed him a couple years ago

00:08:30.100 and it was fine. Again, it was the mean girls of the media party who convinced him he can't talk to

00:08:35.140 Rebel News if he wants to be friends with them. Spoiler alert, they didn't really mean it when they said

00:08:39.780 they'd be friends with him. To be clear, I don't take being friends with Rebel News as a litmus test

00:08:44.420 for a politician. I mean, I suppose there could be a good reason not to like us, or at least not to

00:08:50.740 like me. But if you are so obviously marginalizing or deplatforming or trying to cancel Rebel News just

00:08:56.180 to appease the woke mob, then liking us actually is a litmus test. Because if you let the liberals or the

00:09:02.340 media party tell you who you can and can't talk to on your own side of the aisle, especially who you

00:09:08.580 can or can't meet with, well then imagine how they'll control you if you ever actually took the

00:09:12.500 levers of state power into your hands. It's about courage. That's my favorite thing about both Donald

00:09:17.940 Trump and Ron DeSantis. That's the one thing they actually both have in common. They never,

00:09:22.260 ever let the media party bully them and they love actually demonstrating how partisan the media are

00:09:27.620 and fighting back. Pierre Polyev has a bit of that in him too, especially towards the CBC.

00:09:31.780 But back to Maxime Bernier, he placed an extremely close second to Andrew Scheer in that

00:09:38.100 Conservative Party leadership in 2017. Scheer appointed him to the shadow cabinet, but the two

00:09:43.300 of them really didn't get along from the very beginning, obviously. I don't know if you remember,

00:09:47.060 but Bernier then wrote a book called Doing Politics Differently, My Vision for Canada, which boy,

00:09:53.220 that sure sounds like a political autobiography, a campaign book, really.

00:09:56.260 He posted a chapter online and I can see why Scheer saw that as a kind of undermining Scheer's authority,

00:10:05.540 especially since Bernier criticized the Derry Cartel, which was actually one of the ways Andrew

00:10:10.820 Scheer won the leadership by appealing to that cartel. Anyways, things rapidly fell apart between

00:10:16.980 the two men and Bernier launched his own party. He quit the Conservatives, launched his own party,

00:10:21.140 the People's Party of Canada, that August. So he wasn't even under Scheer's leadership for a year.

00:10:26.260 I remember doing a video at the time, I should dig it up. I was surprised by Bernier's move. My

00:10:30.740 thinking at the time was, if Bernier had just stayed cool and just stayed within the party,

00:10:37.780 and if Andrew Scheer lost the upcoming general election, which it sort of looked like he would

00:10:42.180 have done on his own, Bernier would have absolutely been a shoe in right afterwards to be the leader.

00:10:47.380 I mean, given that he only lost by just one percent. And if Scheer did win in 2019, which didn't

00:10:53.620 happen, well, surely Bernier would at least be the Quebec Lieutenant in that party. But alas,

00:10:59.620 Bernier broke away to start his own party. That's extremely hard. I saw Preston Manning try it for a

00:11:04.260 decade. Bernier claimed that the incumbent party was just inherently corrupt. He didn't want to stick

00:11:09.780 around in it. Now, there's something to that, of course, in all parties. There's insiders,

00:11:15.540 there's lobbyists, there's sellouts, there's compromisers. Andrew Scheer obviously sold out to the

00:11:20.740 dairy cartel in Quebec, and he won his leadership that way. Welcome to politics.

00:11:26.100 The 2019 election was lost by Scheer, despite the shocking revelations of Trudeau's blackface 0.99

00:11:32.820 antics. I mean, how do you lose to that guy? Plus, the even much more important revelation that Trudeau

00:11:39.540 and Gerald Butts fired Jody Wilson-Raybould for not interfering in a criminal trial where Trudeau's

00:11:44.500 friends were trying to get a sweet plea bargain instead of a criminal prosecution. How do you lose an

00:11:49.300 election like that? And then there was the 2021 election. Aaron O'Toole was even worse,

00:11:54.980 even more liberal-like, and he just wouldn't. He just absolutely wouldn't say a word against Trudeau's

00:12:00.500 approach to lockdowns or force vaccines or the rest of it. Look at this. This was supposed to be

00:12:05.140 a leader's debate, you know? It wasn't. They all agreed. We're all in this together.

00:12:12.660 We've come so far in the fight against COVID. It's time to finish this pandemic for good. So get

00:12:17.540 vaccinated. If you know someone who hasn't, talk to them. For our kids, for our communities,

00:12:23.060 for our economy. It's how we get forward together. Vaccines are safe and effective for use. Vaccines

00:12:30.180 are the best way for you to protect yourself, your family, and your community. So get vaccinated.

00:12:35.860 Let's fight COVID-19 together.

00:12:37.220 Pour vous protéger vous-même, pour protéger les plus fragiles d'entre nous, pour protéger l'ensemble

00:12:42.820 de la population, le meilleur moyen connu demeure le vaccin. S'il vous plaît, soyez responsable,

00:12:49.060 soyez solidaires. Faites-vous vacciner. Merci.

00:12:52.100 We all agree getting vaccinated is the way forward. We're all in agreement this is not a partisan issue,

00:12:59.220 so please get vaccinated. We're united and it's time to get the shot. Vaccines save lives. They're

00:13:05.940 how we're going to beat COVID and it's time for everyone to do it. Get the shot. Get the shot.

00:13:12.420 Oh, that's so cringy, so gross. And you'll notice that Maxime Bernier was not allowed into that debate,

00:13:18.100 even though he was polling high enough to warrant it. I wish Bernier had sued the Debate Commission to be

00:13:23.300 allowed in. We, Rebel News, sued the Debate Commission when they banned us from covering that debate as

00:13:28.180 reporters and we won. You'd think an actual candidate would have sued too to get in. Why not? I think

00:13:33.700 Bernier would have electrified that debate. The other five candidates were absolutely indistinguishable

00:13:40.260 on any key issue. I really can't recall any differences. Bernier would have at least shown

00:13:45.300 an alternative. I think he would have won that debate just by showing up. But alas, Trudeau's man,

00:13:50.420 David Johnston, who ran the election debates, he kept him out. But that was when an alternative

00:13:56.740 populist, contrarian, freedom-oriented voice was needed the most in the country. Everyone,

00:14:02.020 everything, the whole establishment, they were unanimous. Everyone except the people.

00:14:07.060 That's what we found at Rebel News. We were one of the few media to question

00:14:10.660 the forced lockdowns and the vaccine mandates. And there was a big demand for the other side of

00:14:15.060 the story. Alas, Aaron O'Toole was opposition leader, but he did not oppose. Of course, he didn't

00:14:20.580 win the election. Why would you vote for him? Bernier did oppose. In fact, he was personally

00:14:26.100 arrested. He was victimized by the lockdowns. He was targeted for arrest in Manitoba on the

00:14:31.540 orders of the premier, who publicly announced he wasn't welcome in the provinces if we live

00:14:35.220 in political fiefdoms that the premier can control like some prince or something.

00:14:40.420 And when the trucker convoy came, Bernier championed them. O'Toole cowered under his desk,

00:14:44.900 the loser. O'Toole demanded that his MPs not even visit the truckers. Well, that was the final straw,

00:14:50.260 and O'Toole was thrown overboard, thank God. But that was the beginning of the end.

00:14:56.660 The truckers did it. They broke the fever in the country. They woke the country up. Almost

00:15:00.820 immediately, premiers began backing down. Do you remember? Jason Kenney did, and then Kenney

00:15:04.740 himself was still thrown out by his party. Vaccine mandates were lifted. Lockdowns were lifted.

00:15:09.140 The truckers was what freed us. Bernier had battled in a way that very few other politicians

00:15:14.900 had done so. A handful of provincial legislators did in Ontario. Four conservatives did so,

00:15:21.940 and they were all immediately punished by Doug Ford, kicked out of the party. Roman Baber,

00:15:26.180 you might recall. Randy Hillier. There were one or two other dissidents across the country. Bernier was

00:15:31.860 the only federal politician who opposed, but alas, he did not have any standing. He did not have a seat

00:15:37.380 in parliament. At least Elizabeth Gray, even though she's quite a marginal character, she has always had a 1.00

00:15:43.460 seat and her party has two. Fast forward to last night and the four by-elections across Canada. One

00:15:50.580 of them happened to be in the Manitoba riding of Portage-Lisker, which is a wonderful riding. I've

00:15:55.220 been there. Great people and very deeply conservative. In the last election, the People's Party got 22%.

00:16:03.540 Far behind the Conservative Party's Candace Bergen, who was almost at 53%, but Bergen was retiring.

00:16:10.660 So you could see in a perfect storm how Bernier might have had a shot. Very right-wing riding. Great

00:16:16.820 base to build on. Conservative MP retiring, so those personal connections gone. A by-election allows voters

00:16:23.380 to vote on principle without risking changing the government. They can be more idealistic than

00:16:28.500 pragmatic. And Bernier as leader, that's a perfect storm. Alas, it wasn't to be.

00:16:36.500 Bergen's Conservative Party successor, as you can see, Brandon Leslie, he actually got more votes than

00:16:42.420 Bergen did last time, at least percentage-wise. He got 65%. Bergen got 17% down a bit from his party

00:16:49.540 showing last time. I think that's two general elections, 2019 and 2021, and two by-elections that

00:16:55.300 Bernier has contested, but not one. Which brings us to today. Now let me stop for a moment and say

00:17:02.660 that Rebel News has been the most supportive news outlet in Canada towards Maxime Bernier. We cover

00:17:08.100 his press conferences. I've personally interviewed him probably 10 times. We've also sold ads to him.

00:17:14.660 We'll sell ads to almost anyone, by the way. He bought ads with us because our viewers are a good fit.

00:17:20.180 Our viewers like Bernier's love for freedom, and we appreciated his opposition to the lockdowns

00:17:26.420 when few other politicians would have the courage to say so. Last night, Bernier vowed to fight on.

00:17:33.220 And that's great. He's obviously a fighter. But what does it mean to fight but not have a seat in

00:17:38.740 parliament for four years now? I mean, that's a politician, but it's more of a pundit or an activist.

00:17:45.140 Now I like punditry and activism. It's actually what I do for a living. And there's something great

00:17:49.780 about a political party. You can run candidates. You can get on the ballot. It's also good to fundraise

00:17:54.340 because you get a sort of tax receipt issue for donations that no other advocacy group can get.

00:17:59.780 It's even more generous than a charitable tax receipt. But last night was a pretty convincing

00:18:04.660 result in the most PPC-friendly riding in the country. So what now? Well, I hope Maxime Bernier stays

00:18:13.060 in the public square. He always was in the public square. His father was too. I think he has good

00:18:17.780 skills, a strong network, a strong ideology. He's bilingual. I love how he infuriates all the right

00:18:23.220 people in the establishment and in the media. All the fancy people hate Maxime Bernier. But what

00:18:28.900 do we think and what do we do here at Rebel News? Like I say, we've covered him more than most. I

00:18:34.740 interviewed him at the start of his by-election campaign. My colleague Sidney Fazzard interviewed

00:18:39.060 him just the other day. We certainly gave him ink and air time, but what now? I'm going to invite

00:18:44.980 Bernier to come on my show for an 11th time to talk about his future plans, but what could they be

00:18:50.900 exactly? And is his result in Portage-Lizger an indication of how things have changed in the past

00:18:57.060 two years? The PPC was sorely needed as an antidote to Andrew Scheer and Erin O'Toole and to the pandemic

00:19:03.540 lockdown conformity. But now that Pierre Polyev has moved the CPC to the right, and now that the

00:19:09.940 lockdown crisis has receded, are populist conservatives and freedom-oriented contrarians

00:19:16.500 happy enough with Polyev to vote for him? That seems to be the message in Portage-Lizger,

00:19:23.460 does it not? I think that Pierre Polyev isn't perfect, but perfect can be the enemy of the good.

00:19:29.700 What I mean by that is Polyev is miles better than O'Toole and Scheer. He's still a bit cautious,

00:19:34.820 and he's scared of the media party, but much less than those other two. He's taken firm lines on

00:19:39.700 things like the carbon tax, the economy. He sure has socked it to the CBC. He's obviously still scared

00:19:46.020 to talk about immigration, and he's still shy about rebel news. He hasn't done a sit-down interview with

00:19:51.140 us, Pierre Polyev. Though when we bump into him in events, he doesn't tend to run away. Bernier

00:19:58.660 isn't scared of anything, but maybe that kind of ideological purity is great for punditry and social

00:20:04.180 media action, but not so much for winning elections. We desperately need to beat Justin Trudeau. Many of

00:20:11.060 the qualms I personally had with O'Toole and Scheer are gone now. No way was I going to support carbon tax

00:20:16.420 lovers and CBC lovers. Really, after losing in 2019 and 2021, isn't it desperately time to win against

00:20:23.460 Trudeau? And you tell me, is it not the fact that there are only two people who could mathematically

00:20:29.780 become PM after the next election, Justin Trudeau or Pierre Polyev? In Alberta last month, the left

00:20:36.580 had a similar choice to make. All the small parties on the left voted strategically. The Green Party,

00:20:41.860 the Liberal Party, the Alberta Party, they all basically evaporated and their voters coalesced

00:20:47.060 around Rachel Notley, the NDP candidate. The only hope they had to beat Danielle Smith, the

00:20:53.700 conservative. It wasn't enough, but it was very strategic and they almost did it.

00:20:59.140 Is that how it might go this time federally? I fear that there will be a bit of an

00:21:03.380 anybody-but-conservative vote as the media demonizes Polyev. I think you'll see

00:21:08.660 people leaving that empty suit Jagmeet Singh and voting for Trudeau just to block Polyev.

00:21:15.380 In that way, I fear that Polyev's healthy lead in the polls today could be a mirage.

00:21:21.460 And so if the left coalesces around Trudeau, if they abandon the Green Party and the NDP

00:21:25.620 to vote for Trudeau, ought not the right to coalesce around Pierre Polyev?

00:21:31.620 It's hard to say otherwise. I like Bernier very much and I wish he were in parliament. I wish he

00:21:37.540 were in government. I wish he had beaten Andrew Scheer, the cowardly dairy lobbyist,

00:21:43.060 back in 2017. But wishing doesn't make it so. And so if the PPC hasn't won a seat in the last two

00:21:50.260 general elections and the last few by-elections, and if another general election is upon us soon, and if

00:21:55.860 Pierre Polyev is pretty good, if not perfect, and if he's running the most serious campaign

00:22:00.420 against Trudeau we've ever seen, even more serious than Harper's 2015 campaign.

00:22:06.500 Shouldn't that be the choice?

00:22:09.540 Now I put this question to the former Premier of Newfoundland, a great freedom fighter,

00:22:13.460 a great Canadian named Brian Peckford. And here's what he said to me when I asked him,

00:22:16.740 remember this? Now your co-plaintiff in the airline mandate case is Maxime Bernier,

00:22:23.620 the leader of the People's Party. And we have quite a strong relationship with Maxime Bernier.

00:22:28.980 We interview him a lot. We find him very interesting. We found him quite principled on a lot of matters,

00:22:33.860 including during the lockdown. And I think we interview him every month or two. And I admire,

00:22:41.060 there's a lot to like about Maxime Bernier, but if I have to be completely, pragmatically, coldly,

00:22:47.540 candid, he cannot form the next government. And even when he had a seat, when he had the one seat

00:22:55.780 for his party, he didn't break through. And there were a lot of reasons for that, including they,

00:23:01.140 they, in my view, illegally kept him out of the leaders debate. There were a lot of other reasons.

00:23:07.060 But and let me tell you, this is as someone who admires Maxime Bernier and generally supports him.

00:23:13.220 I wish it were otherwise. But I do not think that Maxime Bernier can mathematically be the next

00:23:18.900 government. So to me, there's really only two mathematical choices, Justin Trudeau or Pierre

00:23:24.580 Paulieff. And and those are the two pragmatic choices. And therefore, I will, between those

00:23:30.500 choices, choose Pierre Paulieff. Would you would you do differently?

00:23:33.220 Yes, I will vote for Maxime Bernier in a flash, because I'm looking long term. We have to change

00:23:41.060 the whole structure of this country. We can do a lot within the existing constitution,

00:23:46.420 like I just proposed, as it relates to CBC, as it relates to tightening up the conflict of interest

00:23:51.940 legislation, as it relates to the political parties publishing their audited financial statements of

00:23:57.780 their party every year, as it relates to sovereignty and signing trade agreements and so on. We can do a

00:24:03.700 lot inside the existing constitution, but we need to do more. And therefore, we have to start somewhere

00:24:11.300 to begin that reform. And so I'm looking long term, long term, the policies that are on the PPC website

00:24:19.380 today on Mr. Bernier's website most align with my views now as as a Canadian and as a former first

00:24:28.580 minister. They align most with me. I see what has happened to bilingualism, biculturalism. I see what's

00:24:35.060 happening to being very, very flexible in trade agreements. I see what's happened to our immigration

00:24:41.780 policy where it hasn't matched our economic policy and which has gotten out of hand. And so we have to

00:24:48.820 start somewhere. And so in however many years I got left, as long as Mr. Bernier sticks with those

00:24:54.100 principles that he has actually put in writing, and by the way, his expenses are right there on

00:25:00.020 his website as well, his financial statements, which I'm asking the other parties to do, I will begin anew

00:25:07.700 to assist him in getting, look, if he could get three or four seats and to become, to have to be interviewed

00:25:15.540 by the press to start the ball rolling. I think that would be a really good start. And having him

00:25:22.100 part of the national conversation and his views could really assist. So you start small, you get a

00:25:29.540 couple of seats or whatever, you get a chance to get your ideas out there. And that could lead to over

00:25:34.820 the next two elections to them being a very big political force. So you got to start somewhere.

00:25:40.820 The Canada is broken. Our democracy has been has been lost. Our charter has been broken. And

00:25:47.940 therefore, this is a long term project. And we must start now with honesty and real or

00:25:56.260 system to begin rebuilding our nation. And I can't think of any better way to do it

00:26:01.780 practically than through the PPC. All right, that's good stuff. I take the point. And of course,

00:26:05.940 he's right. But I don't want Trudeau to win again. I want to stop him. Every day that goes by,

00:26:12.580 more terrible things are being done in Canada, not just in parliament, but through executive orders

00:26:18.340 and just spending and through judges being appointed and through foreign policy being ordered. Frankly,

00:26:24.980 if we wait too long, who knows what Justin Trudeau will do? Who knows if the internet will even still be

00:26:31.060 free two elections from now? I love Maxime Bernier as a person and as a political activist, but I do

00:26:37.860 not believe that he can win a seat in the next election. In his own way, he helped push the

00:26:43.700 Conservative Party to get rid of O'Toole and to usher in Polyev. He showed, by example, how a true 1.00

00:26:49.940 freedom fighter sides with the truckers. And he shamed the Conservative Party of Canada MPs into following

00:26:55.940 his lead. And Aaron O'Toole's attempt to stamp that out was the cause of O'Toole's ouster. Bernier

00:27:02.580 helped with that. He helped improve the Conservatives from the outside. I'm not a politician and I'm not

00:27:08.660 a member of a party, but I can say it is time for Canada to get rid of Trudeau and people who value

00:27:14.500 freedom and privacy and national sovereignty should vote like the next election is their last election,

00:27:21.060 because given Trudeau's madness, given his illegal invocation of martial law, given his obsession

00:27:27.060 with censoring the internet and his prosecution and jailing of his political enemies, it just might be

00:27:33.460 our last election. Stay with us for more.

00:27:49.380 While the good guys are outnumbered by the bad guys, that's just how it is. And that's why our side cannot

00:27:55.460 relent. The other side is relentless. But you know, if you're a happy warrior and you don't mind fighting,

00:28:00.740 you can see some progress. And I'm pleased to say that the forces of freedom have a new ally. And

00:28:07.060 the forces of freedom, you know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Canadian Taxpayers

00:28:11.380 Federation. I'm talking about our counterparts at True North or Western Standard, the Fraser Institute.

00:28:18.900 I'm talking about freedom oriented groups like the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom or our

00:28:25.300 friends at the Democracy Fund. Well, add to that constellation a new star. I'm talking about the

00:28:32.580 Aristotle Foundation. Sounds high minded because it is, but it's dedicated to those principles of free

00:28:40.020 inquiry and open debate. Principles that have been eroded in Canada lately, where there's more cancel culture

00:28:48.580 than debate culture. I'm delighted to have on the show the boss of the new Aristotle Foundation

00:28:55.540 from his world headquarters in Calgary. I jest. I joke that we're in our world headquarters here. It's a

00:29:02.020 small shop. But the Aristotle Foundation has good bones. They're dedicated to freedom. And it's a delight

00:29:07.780 to talk to Mark Mielke, their boss. And by the way, they're launching with a bang, a new book. Mark, great to see you.

00:29:14.260 Great to see you, Ezra. Thanks for having me on.

00:29:16.020 Well, come on. I mean, you're going to be a regular here. I just know it because you have made

00:29:22.020 a decision about the course of your life's work that you were going to chair,

00:29:26.820 the Foundation for Public Policy called the Aristotle Foundation. Why don't you tell us a

00:29:32.340 little bit about that? And then we'll talk about your project that you're launching with your debut,

00:29:38.820 your new book. But first, give me a little bit of background on the Aristotle Foundation for Public

00:29:43.700 Policy, your registered Canadian charity headquartered in Calgary. What's your official mission?

00:29:50.660 Well, our mission is to champion reason, democracy and civilization or civil society,

00:29:56.100 as people might know it. Now, that's you're right. It sounds very kind of highfalutin.

00:30:00.020 But basically, we want to make people think because I think a lot of people or some people anyway in the

00:30:04.900 chattering classes, and it filters down are not thinking these days. So is it reasonable to say Canada 0.98

00:30:10.340 is a systemically racist society? In the new book, which we'll talk about in a moment, Matthew Lau says,

00:30:15.220 no, it's not reasonable. How about democracy? Why did the Swiss get to vote in a carbon tax and vote

00:30:20.260 it down, where Americans can vote in marijuana? And Canadians are told, we just have to behave,

00:30:26.820 not challenge the political class or anyone else. I think democracy needs some reform and a dose of

00:30:32.820 direct democracy, actually, in Canada. And how about civilization? Again, a very old-fashioned word.

00:30:37.780 A couple of years ago, I read about a little town called Cranbrook, a city in British Columbia,

00:30:42.020 not far from where I grew up in the interior of British Columbia. Two gangs were fighting it out

00:30:46.580 in the streets. And then they went to the hospital and fought it out in the hospital.

00:30:50.340 Think about a small city. How do you deal with that? I was reading yesterday in National Review,

00:30:55.700 a great article on Ontario schools and some of the violence. Is this the kind of civilization,

00:31:00.260 the civil society, the country we want? So the Aristotle Foundation was set up to make people think

00:31:05.380 about some of these claims, some of these issues. And we're underway. And the first part of this is

00:31:11.300 putting out a book that says, you want to cancel Canada? Really? You think that's a great idea? 0.99

00:31:16.020 We've got 20 authors in the book that say, maybe you want to rethink that.

00:31:20.420 Well, let's get right into the book. The book is called The 1867 Project, Why Canada Should Be Cherished,

00:31:27.620 Not Cancelled. And it's a group of essays. You mentioned one of them on systemic racism. And,

00:31:35.780 you know, I think racism has been a human condition in every continent since the dawn of time. And in the

00:31:43.460 past, it was just considered normal. I mean, you could even say the saying, birds of a feather flock

00:31:48.980 together. I mean, I think it's only now that there's an emphasis of getting past that. I mean,

00:31:57.860 really a blink of time in the history of man. And I think Canada has a noble place in that.

00:32:02.740 We were the country that banned the slave trade more than 200 years ago. We were part of the British

00:32:09.940 Empire's campaign against slavery. We were the destination for runaway slaves through the Underground

00:32:16.740 Railroad. I think that Canada, if you judge us in the time in question, in this 18th century,

00:32:25.860 in the 19th century, we were the most progressive place around. And I think an attempt to retroactively

00:32:33.860 demonize our country as racist is historically illiterate. And it's wrong. That's my thought.

00:32:40.100 What does Matthew Lau have to say? It sounds like he's a Chinese Canadian. You have a lot of minorities

00:32:45.940 writing here. And they're writing things that are contrarian because the official woke view is, no,

00:32:50.900 we're all racist. We're a genocidal state. John A. McDonald's a war criminal. Tell me about some of

00:32:56.820 these essays standing against this hurricane of woke. Sure. You mentioned Matthew Lau's in the 1867

00:33:04.660 project and his chapter is key because there is this notion that Canada is systemically racist today.

00:33:10.500 What Matthew does is he adds some history and some statistics to this claim and then rebuts

00:33:15.460 the claim. So how he does that is he says, look, yeah, 70 years ago or 100 years ago,

00:33:20.820 there was discrimination against minorities in this country. But today, if you look at the income

00:33:25.300 stats, right, you look at ethnicity, you look at income. Well, who's at the top of the heap income-wise?

00:33:31.140 It's those with East Asian origins, for example. You know, himself in the Chinese community,

00:33:37.780 if you look at Japanese Canadians, if you look at someone from Taiwan as opposed to China proper.

00:33:43.300 But generally, East Asian Canadians are at the top of the income heap, which is a good thing. 1.00

00:33:47.700 Now, it doesn't mean there's not individual bigots out there or prejudice. Matthew makes this

00:33:51.780 distinction in the 1867 project. But to find a bigot out there is not the same thing as saying

00:33:57.700 Canada is systemically racist. And people are not clear in this. And that's the problem these days.

00:34:02.340 People don't make distinctions. They don't actually define what they mean when they talk,

00:34:06.260 you know, including politicians, a lot of them and a lot of the media. So what's a good reminder

00:34:11.220 of what systemic racism is? Let's go back 100 years to San Francisco. Back then, whites in San Francisco 0.98

00:34:17.460 would not allow those of Chinese origin into their white hospitals. The Chinese of San Francisco 0.98

00:34:22.980 had to build their own hospitals. That's institutional racism or Ontario before the

00:34:27.860 early 1950s. You could discriminate against someone based on color or ethnicity in terms of employment,

00:34:34.660 accommodation. But laws are passed against that in 1951, 1952. And yet, 70 years later,

00:34:41.380 we have governments and politicians pulling their hair out as if, you know, this is Canada in 2023,

00:34:47.540 is Alabama in 1923. It's really quite ridiculous. So Matthew Loud does a nice job.

00:34:53.300 Taking down this claim that Canada is systemically racist, at least against minorities. I mean,

00:34:58.180 you do see government policy these days. That is what I'd call reverse racism. I had to ask one

00:35:03.700 dean at the University of Calgary to defend a hiring policy that was very specific to one color.

00:35:08.580 And they said, really? So you wouldn't hire the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor because you

00:35:12.820 think she's privileged? So it's amazing to me, actually, how we've lost ground on this issue,

00:35:17.620 Ezra. That unfortunately, today, old evils are cropping up and new guises, new justifications.

00:35:23.860 Discrimination against the individual, as opposed to, no, celebrate the individual,

00:35:29.300 discriminate based on merit, higher on merit, that sort of thing.

00:35:32.180 So we've actually, I think, lost some ground, unfortunately.

00:35:35.700 And you're comparing things to Canada and San Francisco in the last century. But I think you

00:35:41.620 can take a broader comparison. Why just compare us against our own recent past? Why not compare us to

00:35:47.220 every single other country and continent in the world? I think there's a myth that only the West

00:35:54.500 was racist or only the... Whereas today, I mean, there is still slavery in several continents. There's

00:36:02.100 still overt racism and discrimination in several continents. What other country in the world is

00:36:07.940 better than Canada? I don't think there's a good answer to that. Listen, I want to whip through some

00:36:11.460 of the other subjects. Give me just short snappers on each of these. Greg Piazetsky, if I'm saying it

00:36:17.460 wrong, takes on the case of Sir John A. Macdonald. Here in Toronto, there's a great statue of Sir John

00:36:23.620 A. Macdonald right in the heart of the city. And they built a wooden coffin around it, so no one has

00:36:29.140 to look at it. It's insane. The founder of this country is in a wooden coffin in the biggest city

00:36:36.420 because the city fathers are too ashamed of him. Give me a one-liner of why Greg Piazetsky says

00:36:42.820 that's wrong. Well, because he favored treaties and carried out treaties in the West, specifically

00:36:50.260 to make sure that what happened in the American West didn't happen in the Canadian West. Founded

00:36:54.100 the Northwest Mounted Police to protect the first settlers, you could say, from later settlers and

00:36:58.500 vice versa, but first settlers from later settlers. And he provided famine relief. Plus, he was instrumental

00:37:04.820 as part of the effort to inoculate indigenous Canadians against smallpox. So for all those

00:37:09.700 reasons and more, Greg details why John A. Macdonald, as he puts it, saved more indigenous

00:37:14.660 lives than any other prime minister. Gaurav Jaswal, which sounds like a Sikh name. And again,

00:37:21.140 I'm pointing this out because I think there's something powerful for people who are supposed to be

00:37:27.060 woke and think as part of an identity group saying, no, no, no, I've looked at things independently

00:37:31.700 and it's not that way. Tell me about Gaurav Jaswal's essay on the error of Canadian self-loathing. I

00:37:39.540 think that is truly, you know, we're talking about race a little bit. It's like one of those funny

00:37:44.500 lists, white people problems or things white people like. I think that maybe things are so luxurious and

00:37:50.580 so prosperous that the way that, and there's no real battles to fight, that we turn on ourselves.

00:37:58.580 And it's sort of like a cannibalism. We declare ourselves the enemy. Tell me why Gaurav Jaswal

00:38:04.660 thinks that Canadians should stop hating themselves. I love Gaurav's chapter in the 1867 project.

00:38:10.500 Gaurav is an entrepreneur from Goa, India, who sent his two sons here to university to Canada. And then

00:38:15.700 Jaswal started to notice that Canadians were beating up on themselves and he was wondering

00:38:21.060 why. So he kind of looked into this. And in the chapter, in the 1867 project, Gaurav says,

00:38:26.020 what do you mean you're a systemically racist country? You know, I came to what Matthew Lau said.

00:38:31.060 He asked his questions. Gaurav says he knows someone who, he doesn't say which province,

00:38:35.540 but a friend of his, a lady that moved here some time ago, became elected as an MLA to a provincial

00:38:40.340 legislature in, in Canada. And then this, this lady had the temerity to say, Canada is an institutionally

00:38:46.020 racist country, um, against me. And Gaurav said, listen, I live in Goa, India. I'm not native to this,

00:38:52.020 this state in India. I couldn't get elected in the state because of the racism. And yet you move to

00:38:56.580 Canada and you're elected as a politician. Um, so Gaurav kind of again unpacks this. He also,

00:39:02.660 he wrote a column in the national post several years ago, and he, he reprints some of the letters

00:39:06.900 he got some of the emails he got when he wrote that post column, uh, from Canadians, a lot of

00:39:11.700 whom were immigrants and said, this is nuts how we're attacking Canada as a systemically 0.79

00:39:16.740 institutionally racist country. And again, they kind of made the point you made, they've encountered

00:39:20.740 real racism around the world. Um, and they came from societies that sometimes were deeply racist.

00:39:25.940 So Gaurav does a nice job of unpacking this from Goa, India to say, you know, Canadians stop doing 1.00

00:39:31.380 this. You've, you've got a country that was built up over time that has as many things to cherish.

00:39:37.220 You know, I've been to some foreign lands, including Iraq. And, uh, it's funny what I,

00:39:43.220 what people said to me when I was in Iraq, they said two things. They said, stop smiling so much.

00:39:47.860 You look stupid and stop saying thank you very much for little things that let's stop overthinking

00:39:54.500 people. I said, well, that's just how I am. Maybe that's how Canadians are. We're always saying, 0.99

00:39:58.260 sorry, eh? And, and my friends over there said, no, you look so gullible and you look like a mark

00:40:06.900 and you're so, oh, thank you very much for a trifle. People said, it looks like you're a sucker.

00:40:13.540 And I think that's how it is over there. But here in Canada, we like being nice. We like saying,

00:40:18.580 after you, no, after you, let me hold it over you. No, sorry, sorry, sorry. And, and I think that

00:40:23.540 that some of these essays in a way are unpacking that is that we're so hypersensitive to criticism.

00:40:32.340 We're so obsequious that we don't even take our own side of the argument that we're so

00:40:38.980 deferential and that other places, other people in the world are brutal. Oh no, sorry, sorry,

00:40:45.220 sorry. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, okay, I think the core problem in Canada

00:40:50.420 is best illustrated by an image. When you think about what it takes to create a country from scratch

00:40:55.060 over time, it's like an oak tree. I love oak trees. Why? Because they're, they're massive.

00:41:00.580 Their canopy is huge. They can shelter people underneath it. My car has been hit by hail a

00:41:04.740 number of times in Calgary. If I was sitting under an oak tree with my car, we probably would have

00:41:08.740 protected it because of the canopy. It's so huge. An oak tree is like, is like a country. It's like a

00:41:14.420 civilization and vice versa. So Canada was built up over time, pre-confederation,

00:41:19.060 post-confederation. I mean, you can go all the way back 20,000 years ago to the first settlers,

00:41:23.220 right? Those who are now called indigenous, whose ancestors came over the Bering Strait.

00:41:27.700 Everybody contributed to building this country. French fur traders, people in 1867,

00:41:32.340 people who came two months ago from Ukraine or Hong Kong, fleeing troubles there in those, in those

00:41:36.900 locales. And, but people today, some anyway, I don't think it's a majority of Canadians, Ezra.

00:41:42.340 I think there's a chunk of the population that's, that sees a diseased limb in our history,

00:41:46.980 right? We didn't give the vote to indigenous folk before 1960 or women before the end of the 1910s. 1.00

00:41:52.660 All right. That was a problem. It was a diseased limb on a tree, so to speak. What do you do?

00:41:57.220 You don't take down the entire tree. You prune the limb, you make the tree better. But we've got

00:42:01.780 people today who see a problem and they immediately want to take down the entire structure of Canada.

00:42:06.500 They want to pour acid on the roots, our foundations. Well, that's dumb because it's the tree of Canada,

00:42:12.820 so to speak, this massive oak tree that's been built up over centuries that has afforded protection

00:42:17.300 to millions of people. Perfectly? No. But of course, and this is the other problem I have,

00:42:21.860 and I think this is also the genesis of the 1867 project and the Aristotle Foundation, Ezra.

00:42:27.140 When people look back in the 20th century, the main problem was, you know, for the main utopian

00:42:32.900 problem was Marxism. But at least they could argue they looked ahead and they could create

00:42:37.220 a perfect society in the future. Today, we have people who are utopians who look back

00:42:41.780 into history and weirdly expect history to have been perfect, even though it was populated by

00:42:46.740 imperfect human beings like us. Why would you expect John MacDonald to have been perfect or hold

00:42:51.940 views exactly like us? Plus, it actually, it's not just, of course, they were different people,

00:42:55.780 different age. We don't need to excuse or apologize for that or condemn them for that.

00:43:02.740 Here's the other problem today with, again, some of the chattering classes who want to trash Canada. 0.92

00:43:07.620 It's also that, look, we built on their ideas and they had the tougher struggles.

00:43:13.780 John MacDonald trying to like feed, you know, in a famine, Indigenous Canadians trying to inoculate 1.00

00:43:19.620 Indigenous Canadians against smallpox. We're trying to build a country in a pre-modern age where it was 0.96

00:43:24.740 mostly rural and agricultural before the rise of the automobile. I mean, you know, the people who fought in

00:43:30.820 world wars to actually preserve liberty, to advance liberty, the people who worked for suffrage for

00:43:36.100 equal opportunity, regardless of color, they had the tougher job. So for us to trash past generations, 0.73

00:43:41.700 to me, seems entirely ungrateful. And it's the wrong way to look at history. We have built on their

00:43:47.300 sacrifices and successes. It's not that we ignore the wrongs in human history, but we've got to

00:43:52.980 understand, at least in the Anglosphere and liberal democracies like Canada, we're a success,

00:43:58.100 by and large, for the most part, except for some backsliding today, because of what these

00:44:03.860 founders and others did. And we ought to appreciate that more. So I think that's a big part of the

00:44:08.420 1867 project, trying to get people to think a little more deeply, instead of this nonsensical

00:44:13.780 black and white view of history, which, you know, in the 1950s, John Wayne is always the good guy,

00:44:18.100 the Indigenous person is kind of secondary. Now it's flipped. That's just, that's simplistic

00:44:22.980 history. We shouldn't do that again and treat individuals as something less than what they are.

00:44:26.820 Individuals. And I think condemning great men and women in the past for flaws is a kind of narcissism.

00:44:34.500 I'm better than them. I'm perfect. Obviously I'm perfect. No one in the future will ever look at

00:44:39.700 me and say, I missed a trick. So I'm so perfect. I'm looking back historically and I'm superior to

00:44:46.580 them. And I'm just going to tell you that in the noisier I say it, the more pure I am.

00:44:50.500 I tell you, I look forward to reading the book. It's called The 1867 Project. It's a compilation of

00:44:56.420 20 vignettes like these. The new foundation that published it is the Aristotle Foundation

00:45:03.700 for Public Policy. And their motto, which I like, is championing reason, democracy,

00:45:10.020 and civilization. And we could use a little bit more of all three of those things. We've been talking with

00:45:14.820 Mark Mielke, their new executive director. Listen, congratulations. You can get the book on amazon.ca.

00:45:22.020 I just went there myself. Congratulations on it. And what's the best website for people to

00:45:28.020 learn more about the think tank?

00:45:29.540 Well, if I may as well, Ezra, let me just say that I think we should unite around ideas,

00:45:34.100 not divide and identities. That's actually the positive message in the 1867 project book. That's

00:45:39.380 the end of the book. People can find us at AristotleFoundation.org. Just tap in Aristotle

00:45:44.900 Foundation, look for us, and you'll find us there. And again, the book, you're right,

00:45:49.140 is available on an amazon.ca. But I think Canadians should unite around the wonderful ideas that are part

00:45:55.620 of our history and now and not divide. So that's really where we want to point people to, is that

00:46:01.780 positive end for everybody. Because we're such an identity diverse country, we need to unite around

00:46:06.180 better ideas. There you have it. Mark Mielke, the Aristotle Foundation. Good luck to you. We look forward to

00:46:11.380 following your success. Thank you, Ezra. Cheers. Stay with us. More ahead.

00:46:25.620 Hey, welcome back. Your letters to me. Mark Beerly writes, I remember when they first started pushing

00:46:32.660 the idea of hate crime. I knew it was only a matter of time before we would begin to see hate speech.

00:46:38.100 And here we are. Yeah. You know, it's incredible how many people think that hate speech is some like

00:46:45.940 legal category of speech that is not protected speech. There is no asterisk in the chart of rights

00:46:51.540 that says you have freedom of speech unless your feelings are hard. It's just not a thing. But

00:46:57.220 frankly, I bet you half the lawyers and judges in the country would go along with that authoritarian

00:47:01.860 view. Someone named Wolfious, I think that might not be a real name, says, speaking of re-education

00:47:08.020 camps, isn't that what feds wanted during the start of the pandemic outbreak by sending those unvaxxed

00:47:13.300 to re-education camps around Canada? And you thought it could never happen in Canada to

00:47:18.180 you know, are strong and re-educated. They weren't re-education camps. They were,

00:47:23.220 I'm not going to say concentration camps because that implies the death camps of

00:47:26.900 Nazi Germany, but they were quarantine camps. They were mainly at airport hotels.

00:47:34.580 And they were an absurd violation of our civil liberties. They were actually scientifically junk.

00:47:40.660 If you are sick with the virus, go home and isolate yourself. Don't go to a hotel with

00:47:46.820 staff and other people at a busy airport. They made no sense, but it was that authoritarian

00:47:52.100 instinct of public health. So yeah, those were not re-education camps though. Those were

00:47:58.500 quarantine containment camps, which is, I suppose, the step before a re-education camp.

00:48:04.420 Chuck Andrews says, if you won't tolerate being hated, don't be hateful. Well, you really don't have a

00:48:09.940 choice about it because you can't control other people's feelings. They will hate what they want to hate and

00:48:14.740 love what they want to love. And it's very hard to change those things. Like I say, if you want to

00:48:19.780 change feelings of hate, you almost certainly have to deal with the underlying grievance. People

00:48:25.380 generally don't hate for no reason. There's some hurt in their life that is driving them to that,

00:48:30.660 some injustice. They might be wrong about it, by the way. It is possible to change people's views,

00:48:36.740 but that involves talking, arguing, maybe even hollering at each other, sometimes offensive talk. But as

00:48:43.780 Churchill himself said, it's better to jaw jaw than to war war. Do you see what he means by that?

00:48:52.580 That's our show for today. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:48:57.460 to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:49:00.420 That's what you see here at Rebel World Headquarters 0.61

Rebel News Podcast - June 20, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Maxime Bernier came in a distant second in the by-election last night. So what happens now？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript