Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Maxime Bernier on the features and future of conservatism in Canada

00:00:00.000 Shame on you, you sensorious bug. 0.99

00:00:20.500 Well, Rebel News stands for certain values. 0.51

00:00:31.220 Of course, we report the other side of the story.

00:00:33.260 That's our mission.

00:00:34.560 But in doing so, we let you know where we stand on issues like freedom, on privacy, on national sovereignty as opposed to globalism.

00:00:43.120 And on these issues and more, there's perhaps one political leader in Canada who most firmly fits with our worldview.

00:00:51.300 It's always a delight to talk to Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada, who joins me today in studio.

00:00:57.560 Maxime, great to see you again.

00:00:58.720 Thank you, Ezra.

00:00:59.440 I'm very pleased to be with you today.

00:01:01.140 You know, we admire you in the People's Party because we see a lot of our ideas in your party.

00:01:06.640 Populism, freedom orientation, political incorrectness.

00:01:10.820 We are opposed to cancel culture.

00:01:12.500 And we'll always remember that you personally took a stand and were even arrested for it during the Civil Liberties bonfire of the pandemic and the lockdowns.

00:01:23.540 I mean, that was, I think, really a dark stain in Canadian history for Civil Liberties.

00:01:28.360 Yeah, I never thought that, you know, I'll be arrested after a political gathering in a park for Frighting for Freedoms.

00:01:34.960 That was just before the last general election in 2021.

00:01:38.940 And actually, you know, a leader of a political party being arrested and cuffed and put in jail for a non-crime.

00:01:46.420 That's supposed to be in a democratic country all over the years.

00:01:49.620 Yeah.

00:01:49.860 But it was not, as you know, except you and the independent media were saying, you know, how come we are doing that here in Canada?

00:01:58.500 You know, I remember one moment from the last election where you were kept out of the leaders debate and all five party leaders, it was almost like they held hands together and made a pledge about the vaccine or something.

00:02:19.200 Let me just remind our viewers, remember this from the last election.

00:02:23.160 We're all in this together.

00:02:25.260 We've come so far in the fight against COVID.

00:02:27.520 It's time to finish this pandemic for good.

00:02:29.780 So get vaccinated.

00:02:31.180 If you know someone who hasn't, talk to them.

00:02:33.620 For our kids, for our communities, for our economy.

00:02:37.260 It's how we get forward together.

00:02:39.320 Vaccines are safe and effective for use.

00:02:42.500 Vaccines are the best way for you to protect yourself, your family and your community. 0.77

00:02:46.980 So get vaccinated.

00:02:48.580 Let's fight COVID-19 together.

00:02:51.200 Pour vous protéger vous-même, pour protéger les plus fragiles d'entre nous, pour protéger l'ensemble de la population, le meilleur moyen connu demeure le vaccin.

00:02:59.480 S'il vous plaît, soyez responsable, soyez solidaires, faites-vous vacciner.

00:03:04.500 Merci.

00:03:05.520 We all agree getting vaccinated is the way forward.

00:03:09.520 We're all in agreement this is not a partisan issue, so please get vaccinated.

00:03:13.760 We're united and it's time to get the shot.

00:03:16.880 Vaccines save lives.

00:03:18.640 They're how we're going to beat COVID and it's time for everyone to do it.

00:03:22.560 Get the shot. 0.96

00:03:23.840 Get the shot.

00:03:25.160 To me, that showed that it was basically a uni party, that there really were very little differences amongst those parties.

00:03:32.580 But things are a bit different now and I think the truckers deserve credit for it.

00:03:36.880 The truckers help break the false consciousness that we were all in it together.

00:03:40.920 The truckers helped get rid of Aaron O'Toole from the Conservative Party and in his place is Pierre Polyev.

00:03:48.460 And so here's my first question to you.

00:03:50.180 You were extremely principled during the pandemic and the lockdowns to the point that you were personally arrested.

00:03:56.520 But the world has changed.

00:03:59.660 Many people have moved on psychologically and politically from the lockdowns.

00:04:04.520 Pierre Polyev is not perfect, but he is more freedom-oriented, I think, than his predecessor.

00:04:11.000 It's that difficult anymore.

00:04:13.800 And so what is the raison d'etre of the People's Party?

00:04:17.620 In 2023, almost in 2024, you've got a new landscape out there.

00:04:22.880 And in some ways, your key differentiator, your views on the lockdown, it's no longer in your hand.

00:04:29.160 You're right about that, but we have a lot of other issues that are very important.

00:04:34.380 And you are speaking about that on a regular basis, about the open borders, mass immigration policy.

00:04:40.840 We are the only national political party that is speaking against that.

00:04:44.700 That is destroying our country.

00:04:46.740 Polyev is not there anymore.

00:04:48.340 Polyev did a nice 15-minute videos on the housing crisis, but he didn't speak about the elephant in the room, immigration.

00:04:57.120 So they are scared.

00:04:59.120 And I can understand why, because when I opened that debate five years ago in 2019 at our first election,

00:05:05.980 some people were saying that I was a racist because I wanted to have fewer immigrants.

00:05:11.040 And, you know, I wanted our country not to be like in France or in Germany or in UK,

00:05:16.960 where they have big challenges with that mass immigration.

00:05:20.880 But Canadians, and I must say most importantly, the mainstream media were not there.

00:05:28.020 But now, you know, after five years, I was right in 2019, and I'm still right today.

00:05:32.920 But for Polyev and the Conservatives, they won't touch that.

00:05:36.360 Polyev doesn't want to speak about immigration.

00:05:38.640 And I believe it's because to be in power, that's his only goal.

00:05:42.740 He will need a lot of support from the GTA and from also Vancouver, that's big leftist cities.

00:05:51.540 And he's afraid to speak about that.

00:05:53.960 But we have a role, and our role is to tell the truth to Canadians.

00:05:58.620 And the same thing on another issue that is very important.

00:06:02.140 Actually, you are covering that as a media.

00:06:04.720 It's the radical trans and ideology, gender ideology that's happening everywhere in our country.

00:06:12.680 And, you know, men that are saying that they're women and they want to go and compete against women in sports.

00:06:21.300 That's not our society.

00:06:22.900 There's no such thing as transitioning. 0.99

00:06:25.020 There's no such thing as feeling if you're a man and you feel that you're a woman.

00:06:30.080 I think you have a problem.

00:06:31.080 So you've highlighted immigration and transgenderism.

00:06:35.880 Are there other principles or policies that you believe set you apart from Pierre Polyev?

00:06:41.320 Because under Erin O'Toole, I think an enormous number of conservative grassroots felt the party just wasn't conservative.

00:06:47.660 And they were desperate for a successor.

00:06:50.140 And I think that you need to differentiate yourself from Pierre Polyev.

00:06:57.440 It's harder than to differentiate yourself from Erin O'Toole.

00:07:00.020 Transgenderism, immigration, are there other issues?

00:07:03.520 Give me a couple.

00:07:04.300 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:07:05.260 It's climate change.

00:07:07.240 Polyev won't do anything about that.

00:07:09.140 I agree that Polyev, and I know and I believe him when he's saying that he won't impose a carbon tax.

00:07:14.540 But he's saying at the same time that he wants to put more regulations.

00:07:18.460 He wants to give subsidies to the green industry.

00:07:21.160 Right.

00:07:21.360 Because, you know, he's in agreement with the Paris Accord.

00:07:25.000 The problem is the Paris Accord.

00:07:27.380 We will withdraw from the Paris Accord like Trump did when he was a president of the United States.

00:07:34.120 So climate change, it's a big issue.

00:07:36.420 And they're using climate change, actually, to do what they did with COVID-19, spread fear.

00:07:42.060 And, you know, I was watching TV, and it's very rare, CBC yesterday, and I saw an ad during my football game, I like football, about, you know, the climate crisis.

00:07:53.620 They want to put in the minds of Canadians that there's a climate crisis.

00:07:58.000 And Polyev is playing that playbook because he's okay with the climate change agenda.

00:08:04.460 So that's very different.

00:08:06.940 I can go on with other issues.

00:08:09.900 The woke, wokeism, that ideology, it's everywhere.

00:08:13.900 Now, he says he's anti-woke.

00:08:15.460 He attacks the CBC.

00:08:17.520 He repeatedly says he's going to shut it down.

00:08:20.320 You don't think Pierre Polyev is anti-woke?

00:08:22.880 Well, he's saying, you know, it's popular to say that, but you must ask more questions after that.

00:08:28.060 What he will do for that, to end that?

00:08:31.520 You know, is he saying that there's only two sexes?

00:08:36.080 No, he's afraid to say that.

00:08:37.780 He's afraid to say that.

00:08:39.480 Is he saying that, you know, a kid cannot transition?

00:08:42.620 No.

00:08:43.840 Is he, you know, our Canadian forces?

00:08:47.260 It's a woke organization right now.

00:08:49.900 They're pushing that ideology with the army and everywhere.

00:08:54.040 So we need to get rid of that.

00:08:56.540 That's bad ideologies, and we need to replace that by good ideas.

00:09:00.780 And our role is to push Polyev to do the right thing.

00:09:05.100 So that's why, at the next election, I will tell Canadians when the time will come, you know, we are your insurance policy that Polyev will stay in the right direction.

00:09:16.400 You need us because we will vote with Polyev when he will be a real conservative, and we will shame him when he won't.

00:09:23.840 So it's a win-win for Canadians.

00:09:25.520 We have a role to play in Canadian politics, and we are very different.

00:09:30.040 And I'm very pleased that our support is, you know, step by step, this party is growing.

00:09:35.860 I'm not telling you, Ezra, that I'll be prime minister after the next election.

00:09:39.520 I don't believe so.

00:09:40.900 But our ideas will become more popular, and I believe that we'll be able to elect our first candidate at the next election, and we'll start that common sense revolution.

00:09:51.980 I'll come back to your electoral prospects in a minute, but I want to touch on something you said about immigration, how every politician is afraid to talk about it.

00:10:00.840 You know, the last time I interviewed Andrew Scheer, when he was the leader of the party, I asked him repeatedly about immigration, and he was so upset with my questions that he never talked to me again.

00:10:13.520 And here's a quick flashback of how that went.

00:10:15.680 Do you have anything to say about the Syrian migrants or about John McCallum's new numbers?

00:10:21.100 Or, I mean, that's something that I think conservatives, maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of conservatives want to hear something on that.

00:10:28.840 I think you're right, and I think it's more than just conservatives.

00:10:31.760 I think a lot of Canadians are concerned about issues like security.

00:10:34.560 And one thing we saw with the Syrian refugee issue was that it became very apparent that it was a political goal on a political time frame,

00:10:44.960 and that it looked like the liberals were sacrificing things like security and proper vetting to reach that.

00:10:52.260 And the feedback I got from my constituents and premiers around the country, a lot of people saying, look, we have to get this right.

00:10:57.560 Yes, Canada can play a role in providing a compassionate space for people in danger, but we have to get the security component of that right.

00:11:04.680 But Kelly isn't talking about security, he's talking about values.

00:11:07.340 What's your view on a values test?

00:11:09.160 So, look, yeah, you mentioned a couple of issues, immigration and values.

00:11:12.440 Let me talk about immigration first.

00:11:13.940 I think it's important that we arrive at a number based on some kind of logical formula.

00:11:19.700 What is the need that we're trying to address?

00:11:21.500 Is it an aging population?

00:11:23.960 I'm doing my part.

00:11:24.740 I've got five young kids.

00:11:25.700 I'm trying to help with that.

00:11:26.760 But, you know, we do have a need for immigrants to counter that aspect of our aging population. 0.98

00:11:33.260 We also have some economic needs.

00:11:34.720 You know, there are some shortages of skills in different regions in Canada.

00:11:37.640 Let's arrive at a number based on some criteria.

00:11:39.820 Let's identify what that criteria is.

00:11:41.520 Does our economy need X number of trades, people with skills and trades, X number of professionals, X number of engineers?

00:11:49.900 What is an appropriate level of family unification?

00:11:52.680 That is important.

00:11:53.380 And then let's determine that number from that.

00:11:55.300 I'm not going to be in the business of trying to participate in an auction of, well, you know, one party says $300,000, another party says $400,000.

00:12:03.040 I'm not going to try to help, but it should be based on logical rationale.

00:12:06.640 Okay.

00:12:06.960 Well, McCallum has said he's going to jack up the numbers probably by $100,000.

00:12:10.180 Do you oppose that?

00:12:10.980 Well, what's that based on?

00:12:12.420 I don't know.

00:12:13.020 Yeah.

00:12:13.160 So if it's not based on something logical or coherent, then I think it's just a political target aimed at, you know, trying to win over a segment of the electorate.

00:12:22.360 I'm not going to do that.

00:12:23.900 One of the constraints...

00:12:24.500 Are you against that?

00:12:25.360 Well, I am against a policy that just throws a number out for shock value or to try to gain attention.

00:12:33.440 I want our immigration policy to be based on what the needs of the economy are, what the needs of our society, and then let's arrive at a number.

00:12:40.000 And then that'll be defensible.

00:12:41.020 I think your point is right.

00:12:42.400 There are areas where, you know, people are looking and saying, well, do we need that many in this region?

00:12:47.520 If it's based on common sense or logic...

00:12:50.120 But Kelly Leach has said before they get here, they should be some sort of a value screening.

00:12:55.900 Do you think we should ask any values-laden questions of people before they get here?

00:13:02.380 Well, I'm not sure what she's...

00:13:03.420 Okay, forget about her.

00:13:04.940 You just tell me your answer yourself.

00:13:06.320 Do you think...

00:13:07.140 You're saying once people get here, integrate them, teach them.

00:13:09.900 I don't think anyone disagrees.

00:13:11.020 But before they even get here, should we ask them about their values?

00:13:15.580 Should we ask them about Canadian values before we let them in?

00:13:18.020 I think it's important that we focus on certainly looking at what type of activities people have been involved in in the past with a view towards security.

00:13:26.260 I think you're right that politicians are afraid of that because if you say you're against immigration, people call you racist, even though, by the way, many new Canadians think that the immigration numbers are out of control.

00:13:38.940 But just about a week or so ago, I saw Andrew Lawton from True North sit down with Pierre Polyev and press him several times on immigration.

00:13:50.900 And it was the first time I had heard Polyev say he wants to link immigration numbers with housing construction and number of doctors in the country.

00:14:03.060 Here, we'll play a quick clip of that.

00:14:04.860 Do you accept that immigration is inflaming the housing crisis?

00:14:10.180 Well, it's very simple math.

00:14:12.020 If you have more families coming than you have houses for them, it's going to inflate housing prices.

00:14:19.120 It's no question about it.

00:14:21.840 I don't even think the liberals are now seeming to acknowledge that themselves.

00:14:25.100 So my common sense plan is to link immigration numbers to home building numbers, and that is how you're going to restore housing affordability.

00:14:38.340 Look, we built fewer homes last year than we built in 1972.

00:14:43.380 In 50 years, we're building less homes.

00:14:45.860 In 72, we had a population of 22 million people.

00:14:49.300 Now we have a population of 39 million.

00:14:51.240 So he's not coming out with his immigration numbers yet, and he's not saying, I'm going to cut it.

00:14:58.140 But he's sort of telegraphing that, I mean, there's no way that immigration is over a million a year right now.

00:15:05.660 It's astonishing.

00:15:06.480 It's just, it's gone crazy.

00:15:08.940 I think Polyev is signaling that he's going to rein it in, but he's not giving numbers yet.

00:15:14.100 I think that's significant that he's willing to talk about it for the first time.

00:15:17.840 You see even the liberals saying, well, maybe some of these student visas are a little bit out of control.

00:15:26.560 I see polling in mainstream media that suggests immigration is too high.

00:15:32.380 Is it about to become socially acceptable to challenge immigration levels?

00:15:38.980 I think it is more socially acceptable than it was in 2019 when I started that debate.

00:15:46.960 And, you know, if you look at what Polyev said in that interview, he said also a couple of months before that he wants to tie immigration with the demand coming from big businesses.

00:15:57.660 Big businesses want more cheap labor.

00:16:00.380 Yeah.

00:16:00.580 And also with the reunification of family, all these people that are coming here and they want to have their family with them.

00:16:08.780 But for the federal government and for Polyev, the definition of a family is a huge family.

00:16:14.260 Your mom, your mom, your dad, your grandmom, your granddad.

00:16:17.760 A family for us is, you know, husband, wife and the kids.

00:16:21.200 So he won't touch about that because it's very popular in ethnic writings and he needs to have that support to be in power.

00:16:30.200 So Polyev is playing and he's with Andrew and with that media.

00:16:35.680 So he wants to please a little bit people who are listening to that media.

00:16:40.560 But when he's speaking outside that, he said he didn't say anything.

00:16:43.880 And the main thing that he did was that video.

00:16:47.840 He didn't speak about immigration.

00:16:49.120 Yeah, on his 15-minute infomercial about housing.

00:16:52.540 Now, I saw an astonishing statistic the other day that in the last quarter, that is in the last 90 days, Canada had 400,000 migrants.

00:17:02.640 That's more than we had in an entire year before.

00:17:06.380 What is the People's Party number per year?

00:17:10.600 If it used to be 250, then it was 300, then it was 400, now it's over a million.

00:17:17.020 What would be the number that you propose if you were prime minister?

00:17:21.080 What immigration levels would there be?

00:17:22.920 Well, speaking about migrants, first, we must withdraw from the migration compact coming from the UN.

00:17:29.080 Polyev won't withdraw from that.

00:17:30.800 And that's important.

00:17:31.700 Like, he won't withdraw from the Paris Accord.

00:17:33.540 So that's why I'm saying he's not serious when speaking a little bit about immigration.

00:17:38.680 So for us, our numbers, the same one that I said in 2019, 150,000 immigrants per year.

00:17:46.860 And the big majority of them must be skilled immigrants.

00:17:51.460 Right now, 75% of our immigrants are not skilled immigrants. 1.00

00:17:55.800 A skilled immigrant is a person that will come here because a Canadian business person wasn't able to find a Canadian for that job.

00:18:02.840 So we need, but now 75 of them are not.

00:18:06.420 They're refugees, like we said.

00:18:07.980 They're coming under the identification of family.

00:18:10.880 So we must stop that.

00:18:12.360 And that's a proposal that is realistic.

00:18:15.760 And also because mass immigration has a huge impact on housing.

00:18:21.600 Yes, for sure.

00:18:23.320 And Pierre won't speak about that.

00:18:25.720 He said also that he will push for more, for building more houses in this country.

00:18:32.200 But the data that he's using, and I think he's right about that.

00:18:36.780 He said we built about 230,000 houses 50 years ago in 1970, 50 years ago.

00:18:45.420 And last year, we built about 230,000 houses.

00:18:50.080 But the population in 1970 was about 22 million people.

00:18:55.340 Now it's 40 million people.

00:18:57.380 So there's a problem there.

00:18:59.200 And Poitier said we need to build more houses.

00:19:02.080 But we won't be able to build more houses as fast as we need.

00:19:06.480 We need to stop.

00:19:08.120 If you want to solve that problem immediately, the solution is there.

00:19:12.960 And the federal government has the control.

00:19:15.440 Just stop mass immigration. 1.00

00:19:17.320 But Poitier will work with big cities and try to change the regulations on housing in big cities.

00:19:26.540 It's a provincial matters.

00:19:28.000 It's a municipal matters.

00:19:29.640 More interfering in provincial jurisdiction.

00:19:32.460 The solution is evident.

00:19:33.900 It's all there.

00:19:35.020 Just cut mass immigration. 1.00

00:19:36.840 But it's not only the problem of mass immigration.

00:19:39.480 There's also multiculturalism, radical multiculturalism.

00:19:43.780 Poitier is not speaking about that.

00:19:46.320 Multiculturalism has failed in Europe, in UK, in France, in Germany, and also in Canada. 0.96

00:19:52.720 We will abolish that legislation.

00:19:54.940 Poitier is not speaking about that.

00:19:56.480 I've attended some of these pro-Hamas rallies.

00:20:02.040 I'm calling them pro-Hamas rallies because many of the people there just say that they are for Hamas, even though it's a banned terrorist group in Canada.

00:20:10.640 It is a terrorist group.

00:20:11.700 And I saw one of your videos on that.

00:20:14.180 And you have a young lady.

00:20:15.640 With machine gun earrings.

00:20:16.800 Is that what you mean?

00:20:17.640 Yeah.

00:20:18.120 And saying, no, Hamas is not a terrorist group.

00:20:20.600 Sorry.

00:20:20.840 Anyway, it's a fact.

00:20:22.000 And I think it's Prime Minister Harper who put Hamas under a terrorist group when he was a prime minister.

00:20:29.340 Well, I've attended a number of these pro-Hamas rallies in Canada.

00:20:34.120 But I've also attended one in London, England, which was huge.

00:20:37.220 And my observations, I mean, our reporters cover them all over the country, is that most of the people marching are either new immigrants who might not even be Canadian citizens yet, or they're not what used to be called old stock Canadians.

00:20:51.920 There are some.

00:20:52.860 There are some communists with the communist flag.

00:20:56.120 They actually bring the communist flag.

00:20:57.380 In the UK, there's the Socialist Workers Party.

00:21:00.120 But most of the people chanting for Hamas are new immigrants.

00:21:05.980 And I'm worried about that, not just, I mean, I happen to be Jewish, so I have a special, my radar is very sensitive to this.

00:21:13.380 But even if I wasn't, people chanting for, you know, intifada, which is a kind of riot.

00:21:21.920 So it's not just the quantity of immigration.

00:21:24.620 How do you make sure that you're not bringing people into Canada who have a belief in fascism or violence or racial or ethnic superiority?

00:21:39.320 Like, we have certain Canadian values, equality of men and women, separation of mosque and state, nonviolent solutions to problems.

00:21:45.440 Because one approach is reduce the numbers.

00:21:49.060 But how do you vet people to stop these hate marches?

00:21:52.460 Because most of them are new immigrants. 1.00

00:21:54.380 Absolutely.

00:21:55.020 You're right about that, Ezra.

00:21:56.380 Actually, we did it.

00:21:57.800 What we did a couple of decades, an hour ago, we had an interview with each one of them.

00:22:04.720 It's a privilege to be Canadian.

00:22:06.680 And it's not true that everybody can come to our country.

00:22:10.660 And no, we need to have a value test.

00:22:14.020 And when I said that in 2019, they were saying, oh, no, we don't need that.

00:22:17.420 Yes, if you don't share our Canadian values, sorry, I'm right about that, you're not welcome.

00:22:22.080 So we need to have an interview with each one of them and ask the real questions if they believe that men and women are equal under the law, that there's a rule of law, and asking the real questions.

00:22:34.200 It's a privilege to be Canadian.

00:22:35.880 Now it's not the case anymore.

00:22:37.860 So that's part of an immigration policy.

00:22:40.780 It's all together.

00:22:42.040 Value tests, being sure that we have the right people, and they're coming here to build our country based on our values.

00:22:49.400 You know, a few weeks ago, I went to the Netherlands, and I met with a political leader named Gheert Wilders of the Party for Freedom.

00:22:56.820 And there were certain similarities between the Party for Freedom and the People's Party of Canada.

00:23:01.500 Both take a very hard line on immigration.

00:23:03.680 Both are anti-wo.

00:23:05.200 Wilders doesn't like globalist institutions, whether it's the UN or the European Union.

00:23:11.920 There was a lot of things that I thought were very interesting.

00:23:14.580 But here's the main difference.

00:23:16.480 In the Netherlands, they have a voting system that if you get 5% or 10% of the vote, you get 5% or 10% of the seats.

00:23:24.800 And so he wound up with the largest chunk of seats, whereas in Canada, the People's Party can come in second or third in dozens of ridings, but you'll get zero seats.

00:23:39.320 It's just the nature of our system.

00:23:41.080 And you know that.

00:23:41.640 I know that.

00:23:42.020 We all know that.

00:23:42.640 But I was listening to Gheert Wilders, and I thought, in Canada, we sort of have someone who's taking that populist, freedom-oriented approach.

00:23:49.920 But the difference is Gheert Wilders got a quarter of the seats.

00:23:54.140 And the fact is, the People's Party doesn't have one.

00:23:58.200 And how are you going to overcome that?

00:24:02.260 You're right.

00:24:02.860 It's a big challenge for us.

00:24:04.560 You're right that our electoral system is very different than in Europe.

00:24:08.140 In Europe, they have proportionality.

00:24:09.660 Like you said, if you have 2% of the vote, you'll have 2% of the representation.

00:24:13.880 We had 5% of the vote at the last election, and we don't have 5% of the MPs in the House.

00:24:19.220 That would have been 15 MPs.

00:24:20.740 That would have been a good base.

00:24:22.040 Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:24.100 But we will win, but it will take a little bit more time.

00:24:28.720 And that's what I'm saying to our candidates.

00:24:31.100 You know, our time will come, and the truth will always prevail.

00:24:34.600 But, you know, instead of taking maybe one election or two elections, it may take three elections.

00:24:41.020 But this party is there for the long term.

00:24:43.520 We know that there's important issues that we need to debate in this country.

00:24:48.040 And now it's all canceled by the mainstream media.

00:24:51.100 Establishment politicians don't want to speak about that.

00:24:55.180 But we have a future.

00:24:56.880 We have a future.

00:24:58.140 And that's why, you know, I told you in the beginning that I will support Paul Yevon as a conservative.

00:25:03.960 So if you vote for a People's Party candidate, it's a win-win for you as an individual,

00:25:10.620 because we will support Paul Yevon when he'll be in the right direction, and we will shame him when he won't.

00:25:17.160 So, but I understand that it could take a little bit more time.

00:25:20.720 But Ezra, I'm young.

00:25:22.420 I'm 60 years old.

00:25:23.720 I think I'm young.

00:25:24.760 So I said to my wife, I like what I'm doing.

00:25:27.800 And I'm there for the next 10 years.

00:25:29.740 And my wife said, OK, Maxim, I'm with you.

00:25:32.080 So we'll take the time to do these reforms.

00:25:35.040 Well, that's the thing.

00:25:35.960 Geert Wilders has been plugging away for around 20 years in obscurity.

00:25:40.800 They prosecuted him.

00:25:43.000 They banned him from, he was banned for a while from going to the United Kingdom.

00:25:47.060 And he persevered.

00:25:49.060 Now, things I think in some ways are worse in the Netherlands in some measures than in Canada.

00:25:53.180 But he did have that proportional representation.

00:25:56.580 Let me tell you a personal story.

00:25:58.240 I was involved as a young man with the Reform Party of Canada and Preston Manning.

00:26:03.440 And it felt like a romantic undertaking.

00:26:05.760 And it was populist.

00:26:07.060 And it was freedom-oriented.

00:26:08.580 And it was very inspiring to me as a young man.

00:26:11.060 And I went to Ottawa and worked for Preston a little bit.

00:26:13.940 But now that I'm about quite 60, I'm 51.

00:26:17.140 And I look back on that, I think, well, we did elect a chunk of people.

00:26:23.320 But actually, what we did is we gave Jean Chrétien three election wins in a row.

00:26:30.400 And so, and I look back on that, I said, I enjoyed my time.

00:26:34.620 But did we have the result we wanted?

00:26:37.360 It was only when Stephen Harper took the Reform Party, then called the Canadian Lives,

00:26:42.500 and joined it back to the Conservatives, that they were able to win.

00:26:46.760 And so I'm asking this question not because I want to be critical.

00:26:50.300 But to me, this is the tough question.

00:26:53.100 If you are splittest in our system and the other guy gets the win, this is not the Netherlands. 0.68

00:27:00.760 So how do you, let's say you get 5% or 10% in the vote.

00:27:04.740 It sounds, almost everything you've said to me today has been a criticism of Pierre Paulyev.

00:27:09.120 And Trudeau.

00:27:10.080 Sure.

00:27:10.320 They're all the same among these issues.

00:27:11.180 But I think most of your vote would come from Paulyev, I think.

00:27:14.520 Or for non-voters.

00:27:15.920 There are 40% of the population who don't vote.

00:27:18.580 And I believe if they don't vote, it's because they don't believe in these establishment politicians.

00:27:22.280 They're all the same.

00:27:23.080 And I'm telling you, yes, you're right.

00:27:24.240 They're all the same.

00:27:24.980 You can come with us.

00:27:26.780 So answer your question.

00:27:27.980 Please do.

00:27:28.440 I have a point.

00:27:29.360 I like Preston.

00:27:30.260 I like the Reform Party.

00:27:32.180 But the Reform Party was successful.

00:27:34.900 How was this successful?

00:27:36.180 Yeah.

00:27:36.580 Remember, Preston Manning, every day in the House during that time, the 1980s, he was asking for a balanced budget, a balanced budget, a balanced budget.

00:27:45.440 And speaking about that, that was not popular in the beginning.

00:27:48.820 And Preston Manning was a principled politician.

00:27:52.260 And he was speaking about that.

00:27:54.180 And it became popular.

00:27:56.240 And what happened?

00:27:57.000 Trudeau and Martin looked at the polls and said, oh, if we want to stay in power, we need to balance the budget.

00:28:01.580 And they did.

00:28:02.640 And I must tell you, the Quétien government was more conservative than the Harper government.

00:28:08.240 In some ways, yeah.

00:28:09.160 More conservative, more fiscally conservative than the Harper government.

00:28:12.380 It's because of Preston Manning.

00:28:13.960 The mistake that the reform did, they wanted to grow very fast, and they merged with the conservative.

00:28:21.720 I was with Harper.

00:28:23.220 We had a minority in 2006, another minority in 2008, a majority in 2011.

00:28:31.060 And I said to myself, okay, it would be conservative, would be deregulation, privatization, smarter government.

00:28:37.660 No.

00:28:38.340 What is the legacy of Stephen Harper right now?

00:28:41.360 Yet.

00:28:41.980 Zero.

00:28:42.660 Nothing.

00:28:42.920 What is the legacy?

00:28:44.720 Nothing.

00:28:45.180 Trudeau destroyed that in his first year in power.

00:28:48.620 There's no legacy from Stephen Harper.

00:28:51.180 So what will happen with a majority?

00:28:53.320 Polyev, and I hope that Polyev will have that majority, because that argument about splitting the vote, splitting the vote, people will see that Polyev majority government will be a little bit like a Harper majority government.

00:29:08.060 But yeah, Polyev will look at the polls, like he's doing right now, and he will be afraid to do the vote reforms.

00:29:13.840 So, and I can use another example, the Green Party of Canada, Israel.

00:29:19.580 Right.

00:29:20.020 They didn't elect anybody, but they were successful.

00:29:22.860 Every establishment national political party except us, they have a green platform against climate change, including the conservative.

00:29:31.700 Right.

00:29:31.860 They won the battle of ideas.

00:29:33.680 Right.

00:29:34.040 So we have a role to play, and we'll play that role.

00:29:37.380 So we can win by being in the opposition, being elected, but also we can win by influencing and pushing the conservative party to the right and doing the right thing for the country.

00:29:49.680 Polyev is afraid to speak about immigration right now, and he was afraid, and he's afraid to speak about against the Paris Accord.

00:29:57.600 But maybe your day would change, and when you would change, that would be a victory for us.

00:30:03.660 I look at your position with a political party that doesn't have seats, but you have candidates, you have organization, you're traveling, you're in Toronto here today.

00:30:12.500 And I think, in some ways, I understand what you're doing, because we, too, don't have any seats, but we're always campaigning, you know, we're always putting out ideas, and because we don't get government money, we're always crowdfunding.

00:30:27.120 Well, that's like a political party, always fundraising.

00:30:29.400 And so I was thinking, are you really describing a kind of think tank?

00:30:37.100 Because you talk about the Green Party as being an idea generator that the other parties copied.

00:30:42.080 You talk about Preston Manning as being an idea generator that even Jean Chrétien copied in some ways.

00:30:48.820 Is the people's, is a future for the People's Party that you are sort of the keeper of the flame of what freedom and populism and grassroots sovereignty means?

00:31:01.740 Because that could pack some real punch.

00:31:04.980 I don't know if the Conservative Party of Canada is trying to steal your ideas.

00:31:12.140 But if you were a think tank, I don't know, I'm not telling you what to do.

00:31:16.040 I'm just trying to imagine what is it like, because you don't...

00:31:20.140 What is the BBC?

00:31:21.160 The BBC is a principled political party.

00:31:24.140 Right.

00:31:24.320 Because when I'm speaking about big ideas, and we don't change our platform at every election, that's a big difference.

00:31:31.640 The Conservative, if you look, if you go, and I hope people will go to the Conservative Party of Canada website and try to find Pierre Polyev's electoral platform.

00:31:40.280 They won't, because Polyev doesn't know what he will believe in when the election will come.

00:31:45.120 He will need to do polling and focus group.

00:31:46.960 We are different, and I'm saying that we are doing politics differently because our platform is always the same.

00:31:53.300 What I said at the last election, I said that at the first election for us in 2019, and that will be the same.

00:32:00.140 You can go on our website, People's Party of Canada, and read our platform.

00:32:03.360 So what I'm telling you, we are speaking about things that may not be that popular today, but we believe that an idea is not that popular.

00:32:12.500 That doesn't mean that an idea is not just and true.

00:32:15.680 And an idea does not become just and true because it's popular.

00:32:19.140 That idea will become popular because we will speak about it, and the more we speak about it, the more popular it is.

00:32:25.000 But for the Conservatives and the Liberals and every established political parties, they will speak about something when they're going to see in the poll that maybe there's 50% of the population on that side.

00:32:35.460 For us, if there are only 5%, 2%, or 3%, we don't care. 0.92

00:32:40.260 We have a vision for this country, and we will push that vision and speak about it.

00:32:44.600 And actually, I believe that if you look at the past, I was right.

00:32:48.000 We started that party in 2018 with 0%, 2019 1.6%, and we tripled our score in 2021.

00:32:55.700 And I don't know what will be the future, but we'll have a candidate in every ridings, and this party will be ready to do the fight.

00:33:01.840 So we are a principal alternative, populist principal alternative, fighting for common sense ideas, and we're not afraid to speak about the truth.

00:33:11.480 Last question for you.

00:33:12.680 Yeah, I remember working, again, I'm thinking my own experience, with Preston Manning trying to build the Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance.

00:33:20.320 And one of the things he tried to do was recruit candidates who had some name recognition.

00:33:25.080 It was very hard to do, because if you were sort of a local celebrity, like a mayor, odds are you would run with a party that had power or that promised you power.

00:33:34.460 Yeah.

00:33:34.540 So he had a tough time getting star candidates.

00:33:37.180 Same thing like us.

00:33:38.320 And, but, you know, there were other people on the team.

00:33:40.920 For example, Preston Manning found Stephen Harper to be his policy chief.

00:33:45.080 And over the years, there was a bench of talent that developed.

00:33:48.940 And I look at Pierre Polyev's team right now, and you can see people that he's sort of grooming to have different positions.

00:33:56.740 Tell me about the People's Party.

00:34:00.000 Is there, are there other people who have positions?

00:34:04.840 Are there other policy bosses or spokesmen?

00:34:08.780 Is there a member's convention?

00:34:11.760 Because, again, the difference between Geert Wilders, who now has 37 MPs with him, is that he's got a team now, and he's expertise in grassroots.

00:34:22.300 What's the PPC like?

00:34:23.620 I'm trying to understand how you get from here to where you want to go structure-wise.

00:34:28.340 Yeah, that was a little bit difficult at our first election to have candidates in every riding with a star status, a star candidate status, if I can express myself like that.

00:34:42.620 But I can tell you right now, we have candidates who are lawyers, teachers, truck drivers.

00:34:53.880 So we have different candidates coming from different backgrounds.

00:34:57.280 But I must admit that we don't have a person that is well-known with the mainstream media right now.

00:35:02.520 But actually, we have about 125 candidates selected and approved for the next election.

00:35:09.020 We'll do a call for candidates early January.

00:35:11.840 Our goal is to have our full slate ready before the end of next year.

00:35:16.620 And I hope that we'll find our star candidates.

00:35:19.580 But our people are star candidates in their communities.

00:35:22.860 They're well-known in their communities.

00:35:24.460 And for us, that's important.

00:35:25.620 I'm going to end with a request.

00:35:28.020 And you can ignore it or you can think about it.

00:35:30.520 You don't have to ask me now.

00:35:31.660 But you and I did something similar in 2021.

00:35:35.940 We both wanted to go to the government-run election debates.

00:35:41.260 We applied as journalists.

00:35:43.820 You applied as a political leader.

00:35:45.580 Both of us were rejected by Trudeau's hand-picked election debates commission.

00:35:51.600 So here's where we differed.

00:35:53.820 We went to court in an emergency lawsuit.

00:35:57.720 And we got the federal court to order the debates commission to accredit us.

00:36:03.140 And it gave us a real victory.

00:36:06.040 And we were allowed to go.

00:36:08.220 I imagine that if, let's say, there's an election in 2024.

00:36:12.960 It's going to be, the debates are going to be run by the same government commission.

00:36:16.520 I think they're going to ban you again.

00:36:18.820 Why wouldn't they?

00:36:19.580 My request is that you sue, because at least you'll try.

00:36:24.580 And if, like us, you get in, then you can put these ideas to a wider audience.

00:36:30.500 Because if, I mean, I love Rebel News, obviously, but we are not as big as that leaders debate.

00:36:34.640 That would be an enormous forum.

00:36:36.580 And it would be your way of not accepting the cartel.

00:36:40.400 You would break into the cartel the way we're trying to break into the media cartel.

00:36:44.500 What do you think of that?

00:36:45.700 Did you ever regret not suing?

00:36:48.020 No, we did our best at that time.

00:36:51.120 And that was their decision.

00:36:54.660 But also because they put forward a rule.

00:36:57.320 They just, they said no for me.

00:36:59.540 But they said, you need to have at least 4% of the vote to be part of the national debates.

00:37:03.900 We had 5% at the last election.

00:37:06.560 So I'll be there.

00:37:07.820 And if they're inventing a new rule, I will fight that.

00:37:13.080 In court?

00:37:13.680 I will fight that in court for sure.

00:37:15.880 Now, you know, I'm there.

00:37:17.880 And I'll be there.

00:37:19.160 They will have to change their rule.

00:37:21.440 And if, I hope they won't do that, but I cannot trust them.

00:37:24.240 You're right.

00:37:24.780 If they're doing that, absolutely, I'll be in front of, I'll be in court, and I'll fight that.

00:37:31.240 I'm glad to hear it.

00:37:32.220 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:37:32.760 Not just because I like you.

00:37:33.880 Like I was in court for COVID-19.

00:37:37.240 Right.

00:37:37.500 You know, I fought that in court with Brian Petford.

00:37:40.040 Right.

00:37:40.180 And we are appealing that to the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:37:43.420 Right.

00:37:43.660 Yes, I'll do the fight up to the end.

00:37:46.040 Good.

00:37:46.320 Because I think that they want to keep out alternative voices in political bodies.

00:37:50.920 They want to keep out alternative voices in the media too.

00:37:53.160 Yeah, but I'm very pleased that we were successful and I was watching that.

00:37:56.680 And I must say, you know, I hope that a lot of people will support you.

00:38:01.700 You know, because our policy on the media is to cut out the fundings, as you know, CBC and everything and all the fundings to other media.

00:38:09.360 I want them to fight you at the same playing field, same level.

00:38:13.660 And now you are raising money.

00:38:15.280 You're a small business, but it's a very important small business for our democracy.

00:38:19.740 And I'm very pleased that you are there and doing the same fight for more, you know, another point of view in the media.

00:38:28.740 When do you think the next election is going to be?

00:38:30.840 You know, I don't believe that Trudeau and the NDP will call an election.

00:38:36.220 They won't win right now.

00:38:38.060 So they will wait until the end, maybe 2025, September or fall 2025.

00:38:44.200 But the People's Party will be ready for 2024.

00:38:47.500 And it's sad that we have to wait another maybe two years for that.

00:38:51.280 I hope we can have an election as soon as possible.

00:38:54.320 But yeah, we'll be there when the time when they're going to call an election will be there.

00:38:59.780 I'll be at the national debates and we'll have the candidates in every riding.

00:39:03.340 So every single Canadian will be able to vote in line with their values.

00:39:07.120 And what's the website that people can get more information?

00:39:09.680 People's Party of Candidates, and they can follow me on Twitter, Maxim Bermier, on Rumble, YouTube, and all these social media.

00:39:18.000 And actually, what I'm doing, you know, I'm traveling across the country, like you said.

00:39:23.800 But also, I try to be present with a lot of, you know, influencers on social media, podcasts, like a little bit Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is doing in the U.S.

00:39:33.820 Robert F. Kennedy is canceled by the mainstream media.

00:39:37.120 But he's very popular in the news with the people, sorry, because he's doing, you know, alternative media, like your media and podcasts.

00:39:45.880 So that's our strategy, to be able to reach more people.

00:39:50.220 All right.

00:39:50.540 Well, good luck to you.

00:39:51.260 Thanks for stopping by.

00:39:52.340 Thank you, Ezra.

00:39:53.140 Right on there.

00:39:53.660 You have a Maxime Bernier, leader of the People's Party of Canada.

00:39:57.260 That's our show for today.

00:39:58.580 Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:40:04.980 We'll be back.

00:40:14.300 Bye.

00:40:17.020 Bye.

00:40:17.760 Bye.

00:40:17.860 Bye.

00:40:22.620 Bye.

00:40:30.920 Bye.

Rebel News Podcast - December 30, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Maxime Bernier on the features and future of conservatism in Canada

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