EZRA LEVANT ｜ Ottawa vs. Rebel News： Our Battle for Election Debate Access
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Summary
A new report from Mark Carney's Debates Commission, that's the government agency that runs the leaders' debates, has paragraph after paragraph about Rebel News. I'm going to read some of it to you because it's sort of appalling and sad at the same time.
Transcript
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Hello, my friends. A new report from Mark Carney's Debates Commission, that's the government
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bureaucrats that run the leaders' debates, has paragraph after paragraph about Rebel News.
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I'm going to read some of it to you because it's sort of appalling and it's sort of funny
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and sad at the same time. I'll let you be the judge of it. But first, let me invite you
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to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of this podcast.
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Just go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. Eight bucks a month, and we use that money
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to keep the show strong so we don't have to take any government money. We never have.
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We never will. And your subscription helps make that possible. Tonight, the government
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says it can't block Rebel News from the election debates anymore, so the entire press conference
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should be canceled. I kid you not. It's October 28th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
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You buddies of freedom! Shame on you, you censorious bug!
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I want to read to you something just amazing from Mark Carney's Government Election Debates
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Commission. It's actually Trudeau's Debates Commission, but Carney hasn't changed it, so
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it's his now. They wrote a report a few weeks ago, and they're just obsessed with Rebel News.
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It's sort of amazing. I want to take you through it, but first, please let me give you five minutes
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of history just as a refresher of the background here, but you'll want to stick around to actually
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look at their report. There is no reason why the government should run the election debates of a
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country. Strike that. There is a reason. There's just no good reason for it. For a century and a half,
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Canadians managed quite well with our own election debates, even as technology changed from the
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newspaper and leaflet days, to the days of radio, to TV, to the internet. I literally cannot remember
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anyone ever in my whole life saying, hey, these election debates have a problem, and that problem
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can be solved by putting them in the hands of the government. I'm not saying that debates are perfect.
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Sometimes the format is better than others. Sometimes the hosts are better than others.
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But what's that got to do with who owns and controls the debates? Imagine giving it to government.
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The big media companies typically work together to host a few marquee debates that they'd all
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spend some money on producing as nicely as possible. Other organizations were free to host their own
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debates, too. I think, for example, in 2015, the Globe and Mail had a debate on the economy. Here's just a few seconds of that.
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Live from Calgary, welcome to the Globe and Mail Leaders Debate 2015.
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Please welcome tonight's co-host, Globe and Mail political reporter, Jane Tabor.
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Welcome to the Globe and Mail Leaders Debate on the Economy, and welcome to Calgary in the Palomino
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Room at the BMO Centre in Stampede Park for a very special and exciting debate, one that's focused
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on only one topic, the most important issue of election 2015, the economy. And there's no better
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place for this debate than where we are tonight in Alberta.
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So the Globe and Mail made a few decisions. They weren't going to include the leader of the Bloc
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Québécois in their English language debate. Makes sense. And they weren't going to invite the fringe
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candidate from the Green Party. You could say that's unfair, but the Liberals, Tories, and NDP all thought
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it was fair enough to participate. And if you don't like it, well, have your own debate and convince
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people to attend yours and watch yours. That's how it used to be.
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But while it's obviously not in the public interest to have politicians take over an important feature
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of democracy like the debates, it could be in the private interest of the incumbent who could then
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appoint the debate commission with his friends and set it to his advantage. And so it was that Justin
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Trudeau simply nationalized the debates commission and took it over. I mean, he created it and he put
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his handpick people to run it, including bizarrely personal friends like Craig Kielberger from the corrupt
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Kielberger family. Remember them? There was also a far left environmental activist, a lobbyist named Megan
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Leslie. He used to be an NDP politician. They put her on the commission. And the whole thing was run by
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longtime Trudeau family friend David Johnston. In other words, it was packed with activists with an axe to grind or
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just plain old Trudeau family friends. Again, a multimillion dollar government solution to a problem
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that simply didn't exist. And the whole point of it immediately became obvious. The debates commission
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didn't do a better job than the media did at staffing the debate or organizing the debate or scheduling the
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debate or producing the debate. No, there was nothing better about it. In fact, there was little that was
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different about it. Although with a global warming lobbyist on the commission, you knew in advance it would be
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obsessed with global warming. No, the main difference, maybe the only difference, was that the debates
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commission used its government power to ban journalists that Trudeau didn't like. It's that simple.
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So in 2019, that's the first election after the debates commission was in force. They banned a small
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number of independent media, including Rebel News and our friends at True North. And they were really
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sneaky about it. They let us know at the last minute possible. I think it was on like a Friday and the
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debate was, I think, on a Monday afternoon, if memory serves. So no notice, a surprise, ambush, and they
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gave no reasons. So it was pretty obvious why. Well, you know what happened next? I've told you this story
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before. It's one of my favorite stories. We lawyered up and so did True North. And it was a miracle. We
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actually found a judge who was free on the Monday morning and a courtroom that was open and available
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and stabbed. It was really a lot of things that went right. And the case was heard very early Monday
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morning, if I recall, going from memory here, and mirabile dictu. Wouldn't you know there's a miracle?
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The judge agreed with us that it was unfair. And that thing about being unfair is that if you are a
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government, you have to be fair, especially if you're taking away freedom in the press. There's that
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whole charter of rights thing. If this had been the Globe and Mail's private party, the charter would
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likely not have applied. But it was the government's event. And the government has to follow the
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charter of rights and you can't just ban journalists because you don't like them. So we won. And the
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federal court ordered Trudeau's commission to accredit us immediately. Amongst the court's
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findings were that the government didn't have clear rules. They didn't give us any good reasons for
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banning us. The ruling from the debates commission was sent to us by just some guy, some rival reporter,
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not even the debates commission itself. There was a lot of weirdness that the court didn't like.
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So we got in. And it was glorious. Here's some of the questions we asked in the scrum back then.
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Hi, Mr. Trudeau. Since your multiple use of blackface became an international scandal,
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Canada's international reputation has been irreparably harmed. Have you reached out to
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any African leaders or any leaders from the Middle East to apologize for your conduct?
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Canada will continue to engage in a positive, constructive way around the world, standing up
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for human rights, engaging with leaders right around the world? Because we know that promoting
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our values and prosperity for everyone around the world is good for Canadians and creates better
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opportunities for everyone. So that didn't answer the question at all. Have you spoken to any African
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leaders or leaders from the Middle East to apologize for your personal conduct?
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I have continued to engage with leaders around the world in a responsible way during an election
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campaign. My focus is connecting with Canadians, as I was able to tonight. And I was very pleased
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to see so many of the questions turned to the environment. In all sections, there was a clear
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contrast between those on stage who don't think we should be fighting climate change and those
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of us who do. And again, we are the only party with a clear plan to fight climate change.
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So that was 2019. Well, the government hated that. Trudeau hated that. So instead of following the law,
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he instructed his friends on the debate commission to reverse engineer an excuse for banning us. So
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instead of waiting until the last minute to ban us, they did what the judge said and gave us plenty
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of notice. Instead of having no rules, they had long and complex rules. Instead of giving us a one-line
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reason, I think it was an 11-page reason we were banned. And a government official, not some random
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guy, told us the bad news. So they took their 2019 court case, they read it carefully, and they said,
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okay, so we did four things wrong. Let's fix all those so we can ban rebel news and not have a problem.
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They must have spent hundreds of thousands on lawyers trying to patch up all the holes in their
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2019 case for 2021, for the next election. And it looked pretty bleak. I remember our lawyer in 2021
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told me we had no real chance, but of course, we fight anyways. And again, it was a miracle, just amazing.
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The judge from the Federal Court of Canada, again, ordered the government to accredit us. It was like a
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The only reason that I'm allowed to ask you this question is because today the federal court ruled that the
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government doesn't have the right to determine who is or is not a journalist. This is the second election in a row
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that the court had to overturn your government. Do you still insist on being able to make that decision and why?
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First of all, questions around accreditation were handled by the press gallery and the consortium of
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networks who have strong perspectives on quality journalism and the important information that is shared with Canadians.
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The reality is organizations like yours that continue to spread misinformation and disinformation on the science around vaccines,
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around how we're going to actually get through this pandemic and be there for each other and keep our kids safe,
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is part of why we're seeing such unfortunate anger and lack of understanding of basic science.
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And quite frankly, your, I won't call it a media organization, your group of individuals need to take
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accountability for some of the polarization that we're seeing in this country. And I think Canadians
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are cluing into the fact that there is a really important decision we take about the kind of country
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we want to see. And I salute all extraordinary, hardworking journalists that put science and facts
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at the heart of what they do and ask me tough questions every day, but make sure that they are educating
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and informing Canadians from a broad range of perspectives, which is the last thing that you guys do.
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Oh well. And then the next election came around 2025, a few months ago, and we applied again for accreditation
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and another miracle, three miracles in a row. The Debates Commission didn't actually try to stop us.
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They knew that if they dared to stop us, they would be defying the courts once, twice, a third time.
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Imagine banning us in the face of two court rulings. The judges would be furious with them. So they just
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surrendered to us and allowed us to have our journalists. And it was wonderful. And the other
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media were outraged. Oh my God, they were so mad, but tough noogies. I mean, once every four years, we get
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to ask the prime minister a question. It's good for him. But boy, did the liberal media howl. Literally, they
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shouted. They shouted at our reporters when we asked the question. The microphones didn't really pick it
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up. But when Drea Humphrey asked this question, other reporters started shouting at her. The
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atrocious liberal hack, Justin Ling, trying to shout down a woman. Here's Drea's question.
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Hello, Mr. Singh. Drea Humphrey with Rebel News. Your party takes great pride in standing against hate,
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such as white supremacy, Islamophobia, and all that. Sorry, I didn't get your outlet.
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Drea Humphrey with Rebel News. Okay. You know where I'm going to go with this, though, right?
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Can I speak? Yeah, you can. I'm just going to say you know where I'm going to go with it, though.
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Wow. Your party takes pride in standing against hate, such as white supremacy, Islamophobia,
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and online hate speech. Yet you stay silent about ongoing attacks against Christians,
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even after conservative MP Jamil Javani's order paper question revealed that over 200 churches
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have been targeted by arson and vandalism since claims of remains being discovered at former
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residential schools swept the nation in 2021. These claims have been disproven by bans that
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excavated and remain unproven by those that have not. Will you condemn the rise in acts of hate
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against Christians today and explain what your party will do moving forward to keep Christians safe
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from hate in Canada? Again, thank you, but I'm not going to respond to an organization that
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promotes misinformation and disinformation like Rebel News, so no, I'm not going to respond to your
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question. Wow. What she said had no misinformation in it. Perhaps you didn't hear me. Over 200 Christian
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places of worship have been attacked in Canada since 2021. Many served First Nations communities,
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many were historic, and they diverted police and resources and put others at risk. What do you say
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to Canadians who see your refusal to answer, especially from one of the few media outlets here
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that are not funded by the state as proof that a vote for you is a vote for a dangerous radical party
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that gaslights the public into thinking it stands against hate when its silence is instead emboldening
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Christophobia? Your question is another example of why I don't respond to agencies like Rebel News
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that promote misinformation and disinformation. And later on, that wicked liar at the CBC,
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Rosemary Barton, just couldn't stand the fact that Drea gets to ask one question every four years.
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And in this case, it was that loser, Jagmeet Singh. You won't even, I mean, that loser, who cares?
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I mean, he was, he's so unimportant, but oh my God, Rosemary Barton didn't want poor Jagmeet Singh to have
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to answer a question from Drea. I think we have to sort of address the elephant in the room.
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How are these people chosen to answer these questions? And I don't know if either one of
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you have an answer for that, but I think there will be people at home saying, some of these seem
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like odd questions. Some of them aren't getting answered. How come we've heard so often from this one
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particular outlet? Any idea what's going on there? There's three right-wing, very right-wing
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media, we can call them media, websites that are present in there. They get in line to ask a
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question like anybody else. Their accreditation has been approved by the Commission of Debates,
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and so they get the right to stand in line and ask a question that they choose to ask. In this case,
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you saw Mr. Singh, and this has been his position for some time, to refuse to answer questions.
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Rebel news in particular, traffics in misinformation, facts, lack of facts, and as you heard in that
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question, which was woven with some truth and some things that weren't true. Yes, there have been
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burnings of Christian Catholic churches. Yes, there have been remains of Indigenous children found
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in various places around the country, which she misrepresented. We'll see if Mr. Poiliev gets
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any questions from right-wing organizations. I would suspect no. Okay.
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Holy moly, does the regime media ever act like they own the place? And by the place,
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I mean Canada. They shouted, they stomped their feet, and I mean that literally. It was sort of
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amazing, but most of the rage from the regime media was not towards us. It was towards the
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debate commission for not fighting us in court a third time. They kept saying, look, the debates
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commission kept saying, look, the courts agree with Rebel News. We're going to lose if we fight them
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again. What could they do? Indeed, and this guy, Michel Cormier, who sort of runs the debate
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commission, he went from interview to interview just being pummeled by the regime media. I actually
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felt a little bad for him. So time passes. The debate's over. Here we are. It's fall.
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And this government debates commission releases their annual report, something that probably three
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people in the whole country have read. But I'm one of those three people, and I want to read to
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you a couple of fascinating parts of their report because it shows how awful these government
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bureaucrats are. So this is the report. You can find it online. Can I read about a couple minutes
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of it to you just to show you their thinking? So it's called 2025 Media Accreditation Policy. That's
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what I'm reading from. It's halfway through the report. Given the judicial decisions in both 2019 and
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2021, the commission determined that media representatives seeking accreditation for the leaders' debates in
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2025 would be accredited based on their assignment by a media organization. For this purpose, the
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commission's policy defined a, quote, media organization broadly as one that either produces
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original news content related to coverage of Canadian or international political news or covers
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political, social, and policy issues. The commission's media accreditation policy was published
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in August 2024 to ensure that organizations had ample time to review it in advance of applying for
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accreditation. The policy also stated that participation in the post-debate press conferences
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would be limited to one reporter and one still photographer per media organization in order to
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allow participation by as many different media organizations as possible. Now it gets fun. Rebel News took
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the position that each of its five stated divisions, you know the five Rebel News divisions, don't you?
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Rebel News Canada, Rebel News French division, that's Alexa Levine-Guillaume-Groix. Rebel News' Ontario division,
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that's our buddy David Menzies. Rebel News' Prairie division, that's our friend Sheila Gunn-Reed. And Rebel News'
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West Coast division, well that's Drea Humphrey, don't you know, was a separate media organization and
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threatened legal action to obtain urgent injunctive relief if one reporter from each of these divisions was not
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allowed to participate in the press conferences. Well of course we did, for the same reason that the CBC
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had their English division and had their French division and all of their dozens of staff there. Do you
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really think we're going to restrict ourselves to just one reporter and let the CBC state broadcaster
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have like a dozen people there? No thank you, we're on par with them and the Debate Commission obviously
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agreed since they approved it. Here let me keep reading. Given the previous cases and rather than
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devote resources to responding to an urgent injunction especially on a compressed timeline,
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the Commission agreed to provide five reporters from Rebel News with passes for the press conference
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to ensure an equivalent level of fairness to all media organizations. The Commission then provided
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additional press conference access to other organizations based on the number of platforms or
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outlets within their organization. For example, for the CBC this meant that rather than one reporter,
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four reporters would have access to the press conferences, one each to represent CBC News,
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its main network news programming, CBC News Network, CBC Radio and CBC.ca. So you see,
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we had the same status at the CBC. Fair is fair. They hated that. They normally get, there's so many CBC
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staff there, it's so gross. So we just want to be treated equally and they agreed. So here's where they
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start to whine because our people got in line to ask questions sooner than the other media who I might say
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are just a teeny tiny bit lazy. So here's what they said about the fact that we got in line.
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The 2025 debates generated heightened media interest. Just over 200 applicants from 60 organizations were
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accredited, representing a 30 percent increase from 2021. During the French debate, the first of the two
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debates, representatives from one media organization asked four of the 16 questions that time permitted,
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limiting the opportunity for other media organizations to ask questions. Yeah, so did the CBC. What's your
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point? Get in line. I mean, just stop lazing about. Frustration over this imbalance. Frustration by whom,
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buddy? Combined with the difference of opinion about who should and should not have received
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accreditation. Well, who cares about? Who cares? Escalated the following night of the English debate.
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The ensuing disruption in the press room ultimately resulted in the commission's decision to cancel the
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leaders press conferences following the English debate over concerns that a respectful and functional
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environment for the leaders could not be guaranteed. Translation, other media started to shout at us.
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So instead of letting us ask more questions along with the rest of the media, they just shut the whole thing
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down. They came up with a lame excuse, a respectful and functional environment. What does that even
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mean? Our questions were perfectly respectful. It was the regime journalists who were condemning us,
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heckling us, shouting at us. And it was that loser Jagmeet Singh who was so disrespectful to Drea. But it was
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the debate commission's only way to stop us from asking more great questions was to ban everyone, shut the whole
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thing down. Now, I think you know all this because we told you about it while it was happening. It was
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extremely exciting. But here's the news part. Here's the go forward. Here's how the debate commission
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handled the fact that they're just not allowed to block us. The courts won't let them block us.
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They know the courts would shred them. So here's here's the summary of the whole thing going forward.
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This is the news in their report. Options for the next debates. Media coverage of the debates, both
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immediate and in the days following, amplifies their impact and extends their reach. However,
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if reporting focuses on events in the media room, Canadians are less likely to focus on what the
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leaders said during the debate itself. Controversy which overshadows the debates themselves is not in
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the public interest. The commission is committed to keeping the focus and intention centered on the
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debates. That's just some made up thing. Oh, Canadians can't handle learning that regime journalists
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shouted down the rebels. So, hey, keep your focus over here. That's what? I mean, even if that were
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true, so what? If politicians say something strange or powerful or interesting, or if they get an
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interesting question to them in the scrum, why should that not be the news? Why is it the commission's job,
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government bureaucrats, to make sure people focus only on what the government wants them to focus on?
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They're sure that better not be a controversy in the election. Oh my gosh, we can't have a controversy in the
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election. That's the last thing we want in the election. Anyways, let me get back to their report.
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Following the 2025 debates, the commission faced a number of fundamental questions. Should the commission
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continue to manage media accreditation? Should the commission continue to manage the post-debate press
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conferences for the media to engage in the leaders following each debate? Should the commission be
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involved in trying to define journalism? Now, I'm going to skip ahead a bit. There was no consensus on
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any of the issues related to media accreditation and the press conferences of party leaders,
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nor was there a consensus on what constitutes a media organization, what defines journalism,
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or what is a journalist. Some stakeholders noted that journalism is not a regulated profession like
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law or medicine, and that there is no legal definition for journalism that can be upheld in court.
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That's true. In fact, that may have been us who said that. Now, you'd think this is where the
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government bureaucrat might have a little bit of self-awareness and say,
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so what are we doing here again? Why are we in this position? What possible benefit has there been
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to the public by putting us in charge? The one thing we were hired to do? Censored journalists on
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behalf of Trudeau and now Carney has been found to be illegal. Let's just shut her down. Are you kidding?
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These are bureaucrats. Let me read what they decided. Commission's recommendation, after carefully
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considering the feedback received, the commission recommends that it should continue to accredit the media
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and provide them with working spaces and facilities for live broadcasts. However, the commission should
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not provide facilities for on-site press conferences by party leaders. Parties may organize their own
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press conferences at another location if they wish. As in, the government is now going to shut it all
00:24:23.480
down, all the questions, because they can't handle the criticism of Rebel News by the regime journalists.
00:24:29.320
Because Rebel News has four questions, apparently, instead of three, or whatever they think is the
00:24:34.440
right number. Because other journalists shouted at Drea. So they're panicking. They're simply going
00:24:39.800
to eliminate journalistic scrums afterwards altogether. They can't do their job. They don't know how to
00:24:45.400
handle it. They hate the mean girls of the media party. They're just going to abandon their work, but
00:24:51.720
still get paid, of course. The whole public rationale of this Debates Commission, if you believe it,
00:24:57.400
which I don't. It was all about censoring Rebel News. The whole public rationale was to have maximum
00:25:02.840
exposure, maximum transparency, maximum participation, maximum viewership. You'd think they'd therefore
00:25:09.000
accredit maximum journalists. But too many people at the CBC and the rest of the regime just hate us so
00:25:15.800
much and bullied the commission's boss so much. Seriously, he was abused by every other journalist
00:25:21.000
there for daring to accredit us, even though he had no choice in the matter. So they're just nuking
00:25:25.640
the whole thing. As in, they would rather burn the whole village down. They would rather destroy the
00:25:31.400
entire scrum, the entire part where journalists get involved, rather than let us ask questions of Rebel
00:25:36.520
News. They pretty much put it that way. They note that the other journalists shouted at us, were
00:25:41.960
ill-behaved. They reject us. And we saw that, how they just swarmed the Debates Manager for daring to
00:25:49.320
let us in. So they pretty much say it out loud, quote, while the commission could seek to organize
00:25:56.920
and manage press conferences with clear and enforceable rules, for example, limiting the number
00:26:01.640
of questions per media organization, a system for who gets to ask questions, and a code of conduct to
00:26:07.480
manage these rules, rules alone may not be sufficient to guarantee a respectful
00:26:11.720
and functional environment, and could lead to contention and litigation over their imposition.
00:26:17.240
Now, I'm not exactly sure what that means, other than the obvious, because they or the regime media
00:26:24.600
can't handle Rebel News being allowed in there. They're just deleting it. They're just, they're just,
00:26:30.760
they're just stopping that. They have a monopoly in debates. It's not like there's anyone else that's
00:26:35.400
going to have a debate. So we gave the monopoly, and it's too tough for them. It's too hard. So they're
00:26:41.240
just going to cut it in half. The fun part was asking the questions of the leaders afterwards.
00:26:48.520
But this all suits Mark Carney just fine, doesn't it? I've always said there will soon only be two
00:26:54.440
kinds of journalists in Canada, those paid by the government and those banned by the government.
00:26:59.480
We're getting closer to that every day, aren't we? Stay with us for more.
00:27:14.200
Well, it's just days away from the election of a new mayor in New York City, and normally
00:27:19.880
city mayors are not the substance of Rebel News diatribes. I mean, really, a mayor is very limited in
00:27:27.480
power, isn't it? But the mayor of New York City is different. Of course, New York City is an enormous
00:27:32.520
place. Their police force alone is a major counter-terrorism unit when you think about it.
00:27:38.600
But more than that, the city is so symbolic. It's a symbol of freedom, of capitalism, and ever since 2001,
00:27:46.200
the symbol of resisting Islamism. But it looks like the next mayor of New York City will be an Islamic,
00:27:54.200
I'm not going to say fundamentalist, because I don't think he practices the Islamist lifestyle,
00:27:59.240
but he is a combination of an alienist, Islamist, and a communist. And we'll see if my characterizations
00:28:08.280
are accurate in the weeks ahead. But I would say that he is in the mold of Sadiq Khan of London,
00:28:14.840
maybe even of Olivia Chow in Toronto. I think more than anything, he wants to erode the American-ness
00:28:23.400
of New York. And that is why it's of interest not just to all Americans, but to people around the
00:28:27.880
world who love New York City and America. I've heard him called the leading figure in the Democratic
00:28:34.600
Party, and perhaps a portent of what's to come. Joining us now to talk about this in the United
00:28:39.240
States is our friend Will Chamberlain, who is Senior Counsel for the Article 3 Project. Will,
00:28:44.360
I don't want to be too dramatic, and I don't want to overstate things, because I don't need to,
00:28:47.720
because I think the facts are strong enough. I don't think Zoran Mamdani is a deeply observant
00:28:54.680
Muslim on his own. But I think he sees Islam as a battering ram against America the same way he sees
00:29:01.240
socialism as a battering ram against America. And I think he's basically will take a coalition of
00:29:06.680
everyone who's against America, and it just happens that he's Muslim. I don't think that actually colors
00:29:13.240
his attack. I think it's just another tool in his quiver. What do you think of Zoran Mamdani?
00:29:18.280
I think that's the right way to look at it. I think he's a third-world leftist,
00:29:21.320
is the way to understand it. And if he were a third-world leftist who was any different religion,
00:29:26.440
his politics wouldn't really be that different. Maybe they'd have less overt sympathy for Hamas,
00:29:32.360
but I don't think that's the driving force of his politics. I think the leftism is the driving
00:29:36.360
force of his politics. And you can see that in terms of what is he animated by. And even today's
00:29:45.400
statement, I think the one that came out that was super viral today, the one this morning where
00:29:48.760
he's talking about if the boot on your throat is that of the NYPD that's laced up by the IDF,
00:29:54.280
that fits into the broader third-worldist leftism that we see all over the world at this point.
00:29:58.520
This anti-police, anti-authority politics that also finds resonance in the struggle or the resistance
00:30:07.800
of Hamas. Yeah, if you look at the two opponents to Mamdani in this election, there used to be a
00:30:13.640
third one, the incumbent mayor. But there's Mario, sorry, no, I was going to say Mario Cuomo. The son
00:30:20.520
of Mario Cuomo, an old-time Paul, Paul used to be the governor of the state, is running. But he feels
00:30:27.000
old and he feels a little bit corrupt, the charges against him. And then you have Curtis Sliwa,
00:30:31.240
who's sort of a radical cram fighter. He was the founder of the Guardian Angels, I think,
00:30:35.880
if I got the name right, that would sort of ride the subway. So I think the split on the vote on the
00:30:41.240
right is certainly going to help. But I keep looking at the attacks mounted against Mamdani and I keep
00:30:49.000
thinking those are not going to work. Like making fun of him for being a socialist, making fun of him for
00:30:54.280
being a silver spoon socialist, for fibbing, for being a bit of a con man and a bit of an actor.
00:31:01.400
I think those arguments would work on people like you and me. But I think so much of his base just
00:31:06.440
says whatever it takes, just be a wrecking ball. If you have to lie, if you have to be a dramatic actor,
00:31:12.520
if you have to be different people in different moments, like his accent changes. Sometimes he's black,
00:31:18.600
sometimes he's East Indian, sometimes he's good old American, like I things that would normally make
00:31:24.760
you and I say, Oh, this guy's this guy's a slippery fish. It seems to me that those will not work on his
00:31:30.520
base, because they know who he is. And they say whatever it takes, man, just just get the job done
00:31:37.000
and detonate this place. They're sort of nihilistic in that way. That's how it looks to me. I'm up here in
00:31:42.520
Canada, though. What does it look down there in the States? I mean, he's going to perform about as
00:31:47.880
poorly as any Democratic Party candidate for mayor has in the last 25 years. I mean, you can go back
00:31:52.600
to Eric Adams, Eric Adams won 67% of the vote in the general election. Mandani is probably not going
00:31:57.400
to get a plurality, even if he does win. And so there's and Cuomo having lost a primary is still
00:32:03.560
going to come in and pull 40 for 30 to 40% of the votes. That's still, that's a remarkable lack of
00:32:08.600
confidence in the guy. I mean, New York is such a heavily Democratic city. And for in a general
00:32:12.760
election, a guy to win the Democratic candidate, the Democratic Party candidate to win with less
00:32:17.320
than 50% is a pretty significant blow to his general appeal. But I think that of that 50%, yeah,
00:32:24.920
there's just a lot of people who are always going to vote for the socialist, there's a huge contingent
00:32:28.440
of socialists in New York City, it's a remarkable percentage. And I think a big part of the problem,
00:32:33.960
if you will, is, is that a lot of the sort of moderate Democratic voters who might have voted
00:32:39.960
for a Cuomo or fought harder against Mandani in the primary, they left, they left in COVID,
00:32:44.360
they left for Florida, they left for North Carolina. So what you end up having left in New York is is
00:32:49.000
kind of a more hardcore Democrat. And so I think that the city is somewhat doomed to be run by the hard
00:32:55.880
left for for the foreseeable future, which is not good for New York City, it's not good for the United
00:32:59.800
States. Yeah, I mean, it's he really has radical positions, like he's a big defund the police kind
00:33:06.520
of guy. There's a social media post by him where he gives the finger to Christopher Columbus's statue,
00:33:14.200
like so all these things sort of make people say right on. And so I think they forgive this policy
00:33:20.200
or that policy. One of the attacks Andrew Cuomo made on him is that Mamdani really hasn't actually
00:33:25.480
done anything. He's just he's been in political life. He's been a talker. He's never run anything.
00:33:31.720
And again, I think that's true. But I think his base does not care. I mean, they're not they're not
00:33:37.320
voting for a doer. They're voting for a symbolic smashing of the status quo. Am I too simplistic?
00:33:45.000
No, I think you're I think you're right. And I really don't believe that they've fully thought
00:33:48.280
through what the consequences of this will be. And it's not as simple as oh, we'll just we'll just tax
00:33:53.400
everybody in New York City a lot more. Well, then they'll leave. That's really easy. It's a city.
00:33:57.480
They can move. If we get the Republican to win in New Jersey, they can just literally move across
00:34:01.240
the river and go live in Newark or, you know, in Jersey City or in any of the New Jersey suburbs,
00:34:06.520
or they can move to Florida and North Carolina, which many of these businesses already did. A huge
00:34:10.440
amount of finance in New York City has already moved either to Charlotte, North Carolina, or down to
00:34:16.280
Miami and Palm Beach. So I expect that trend will continue. And it doesn't take too many of the wealthiest
00:34:22.040
people in New York City to move for there to be a massive gaping hole in the New York City budget.
00:34:27.000
I think the budget of New York City is something like double the entire budget for the state of
00:34:31.240
Florida. It's an enormous, enormous budget. And that's already being allocated to any number of
00:34:38.120
different social programs. Mumdani's ideas of universal childcare for everybody, that only works
00:34:42.360
if you keep the billionaires in your city. If they leave, you don't have the money for it.
00:34:46.840
Yeah. I don't know if you know this, because I'm sure it's specific to New York, but what
00:34:51.720
powers does the mayor have? I know there are other city councilors who are vehemently against
00:34:57.240
Mamdani. And we've seen Trump himself say, a lot of money goes through the White House,
00:35:02.360
and I'm going to turn off the taps. I mean, remember, Trump in many ways is actually still
00:35:06.680
a New Yorker. Most of his real estate is there. Icons around the city are named after him. He lived there for
00:35:12.200
a long time. Between domestic opponents, like civic opponents, and Trump's aggressive executive orders,
00:35:24.040
and maybe the Department of Justice trying to thwart some of the racial favoritism that Mamdani
00:35:31.240
proposes, do you think he's going to be able to do some of the dramatic things he poses? Does he have
00:35:37.720
the power to do a lot of the things he's promising? Or does that get watered down in Tammany Hall politics?
00:35:45.080
I don't know, actually. This is where my lack of familiarity with New York City's specific laws is
00:35:50.040
going to hurt me. I don't really know the answer to the exact division of power between the city
00:35:53.960
council and the mayor in that city. I would suspect that the city council will do what the mayor wants.
00:35:58.680
I don't think they want the DSA marching outside their houses, so I suspect that he won't face a lot
00:36:03.240
of internal resistance in New York City proper from the other politicians there. I will say,
00:36:08.760
I think he'll get a lot of resistance from the federal government. Remember, Donald Trump is a
00:36:12.920
New Yorker. He's not going to be happy about seeing the city where he spent most of his adult life
00:36:17.400
turned into some communist hellhole. I think that there's going to be real resistance from the Trump
00:36:22.200
administration to continuing to fund what New York City is doing if they're going to act like idiot
00:36:27.720
socialists. I think that might be the ultimate constraint, that there's just a fundamental financial
00:36:32.040
constraint imposed by the government saying, if you don't behave normally, then what's going to
00:36:37.560
happen is we're going to cut off your funding. You said DSA. That stands for Democratic Socialist
00:36:43.160
Alliance. Is that right? Democratic Socialists of America. It's, I think, the soft communist political
00:36:49.720
party, political party, political faction of the Democrats. So they're the more radical left-wing
00:36:54.280
part of the Democrats. I don't know what the equivalent would be in the Republican Party, but this is
00:37:00.840
basically the vanguard pulling everything to the left. These would be the Bernie Sanders people,
00:37:06.440
am I right, or even further left than him? Yeah, as far left as Bernie Sanders and further,
00:37:11.960
there's no right-wing equivalent, honestly. There's no right-wing institution designed to
00:37:17.000
infiltrate the Republican Party, get its own candidates nominated in hard-right cities. There's
00:37:22.680
nothing resembling the DSA. The DSA resembles, if anything, the sort of American Communist Party of the
00:37:28.680
1940s and 1950s. You know, it's an infiltrating party and infiltrating force. They call themselves
00:37:33.880
socialists, but their politics are communist. Now, in other cities, Palestineism is a really
00:37:40.360
driving force. I spent some time in Ireland. I'm shocked by how many Palestinian flags I see there,
00:37:45.400
including draped on major buildings. Ireland couldn't be further away from Gaza. There are no
00:37:49.960
Jews in Ireland. It's just a very strange observation. Now, London is a little bit different. It's an enormous
00:37:55.560
number of Muslims. And I point out that in the last UK election, there were five or six seats
00:38:00.520
where independent candidates, not Labor Party, but independent candidates ran on a pro-Gaza platform
00:38:07.160
and won. They said, lend your vote to Gaza. And there were enough, in combination, Muslim activists
00:38:15.080
and woke anti-Brits to win, to punch through. Is that a factor in New York, or is it not
00:38:22.680
Islamified so much? I'm just trying to understand the factor of ethnicity as a cohesive voting block.
00:38:32.840
That's certainly a factor in certain parts of the UK. Is it a factor in New York?
00:38:37.800
Not yet. I don't think there's enough Islamists in the United States in anywhere except Dearborn,
00:38:42.840
Michigan, to really do that. And I think, I mean, that's a function of distance. It's a lot farther
00:38:47.240
away from the Middle East. We just don't have as many Muslim immigrants as a portion of our population.
00:38:51.800
I mean, I think it's 1% total of the United States. Now, what we are seeing in England is
00:38:57.560
very terrifying and a reason to restrict Muslim migration dramatically, for sure.
00:39:06.840
Last time I checked, the percentage of New Yorkers born in a foreign country,
00:39:11.240
correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was about 36%, which it sounds like quite a large number. And if you,
00:39:16.920
according to the polls, the foreign born ones who are now American citizens are much more likely to
00:39:22.760
vote for Mamdani. And that could be he's living the same experience as us. He'll be a deflector of
00:39:30.120
racism. Although I don't think credibly any of the candidates could be called anything close to racist
00:39:35.800
in New York. I just think that maybe there's a sense of affiliation where he knows what we're about.
00:39:41.560
I don't know. But I know that Canada, we have a number of cities where the number of foreign born
00:39:48.200
citizens is over 50%. There's one city near Toronto called Brampton that is 59%. What does it mean
00:39:58.040
to be a country, a nation? The root word is to be born, natal. Can a nation have a cohesive identity
00:40:07.480
and a culture and a patriot patriotic unity if a third or a half of its members are new arrivals?
00:40:21.720
No, not as far as I know. I don't see how it could conceivably work. I think that you need some sort of
00:40:26.600
strong anchor in the center of a society that people are expected to assimilate into to make immigration work
00:40:32.040
properly. And immigration on that scale is devastating to a nation's cohesion, to patriotism, to the ability
00:40:40.200
of unity internally. It leads to massive sectarianism. I mean, we're already seeing that sectarian politics.
00:40:46.360
You know, for all the talk about dual loyalty for people who are supportive of Israel, you have people,
00:40:52.440
as you described, running on single-issue camp platforms, and the single issue being a conflict
00:40:59.960
a few thousand miles away from them, right? Lend your vote to Gaza. This is in Blackburn, England.
00:41:05.480
What does Gaza have to do with anything? Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting to me. Now,
00:41:10.520
I don't know how the constitution treats where you were born, but I'm guessing that Zoran Mamdani
00:41:16.600
cannot run for president under the U.S. Constitution. You correct me if I'm wrong, because he's an immigrant
00:41:21.960
to America. That's correct. He's not a natural-born citizen. He was born in Uganda. He can't run for
00:41:25.960
president now. But putting that aside, he seems to be the most energetic force in the Democrats right
00:41:33.000
now. AOC, again, I'm in Canada, so I'm not consuming as much American content as you are.
00:41:38.840
It looks like AOC, she's not the rocket she was a few years ago. Gavin Newsom, he's trying a series of
00:41:47.560
things to become a national figure, but if I had to say who has the energy, the momentum, the money,
00:41:53.720
the narrative, the style, who's got the youth, the vigor, I disagree with him on just about everything,
00:42:00.520
but you can't deny Zoran Mamdani's got it. He's a hell of an actor, at least.
00:42:07.160
Yeah, so I quote that line from the big Lebowski, at least it's an ethos. The Democrats, as a party,
00:42:14.440
don't have much to run on, because if you think about it, they ran on Obama's presidency for a
00:42:19.800
long time, and most of that is overtaken by events or obviously a bad idea. I mean, Obamacare,
00:42:26.120
the health insurance market has failed. That's why we have this huge fight now over extending some
00:42:30.200
Obamacare subsidies. The Iran deal imploded and was proven unnecessary by Trump's strikes on Iran.
00:42:36.120
You name any part of Obama's legacy, and it's all dissipated. And so the mainstream Democrats don't
00:42:41.480
even really have a platform right now, and so they don't really know what they're for except
00:42:44.840
being against Trump. Whereas then you have somebody like Mamdani, a democratic socialist,
00:42:48.520
who knows what he wants. He wants communism. He has a platform. He has a program he wants to see
00:42:53.080
implemented. And that naturally, I think, draws energy out of their party away from the people who
00:42:58.920
are just kind of trying to perpetuate a legacy that no one really likes and even Democrats don't
00:43:04.680
really like very much. You know, Mamdani's family is interesting. His dad is a really radical left
00:43:11.000
wing professor, hates America, says so bluntly. His mom is actually a filmmaker. I think affiliated
00:43:17.720
with Disney, if I'm not mistaken. So he grew up in a radical household, but also a successful household
00:43:25.240
and a household where acting and reading roles and being dramatic. And he was a rapper,
00:43:30.840
for heaven's sakes. Like, he tried showbiz. And I think more than anything, he's a communist,
00:43:38.120
he's an anti-Americanist, he is Muslim, he is an immigrant, but I think his core is like Trudeau.
00:43:45.720
Trudeau was a dramatic actor who could memorize lines, who could fake empathy, who had a high,
00:43:52.040
you know, emotional EQ, as they would say. I don't even know if that's a thing,
00:43:57.080
but he could connect with people. I see that in Mamdani. And when people finally fell out of love
00:44:03.480
with Trudeau, they didn't just move from I like him to I dislike him. They moved from I like him to
00:44:09.080
I hate him because I now see what a charlatan he is. It was all the polling in Justin Trudeau's later
00:44:16.120
months was, do you like him or do you hate him? Not do you dislike him? I see the same trickiness,
00:44:24.360
the same obvious BS, like the male feminist BS or the I'm fine with the Jews BS. I just,
00:44:32.120
I think he's tricking a lot of young people, especially a lot of young women who find him
00:44:37.000
dreamy, just like Trudeau. And I think that if Mamdani wins, it's going to be because the vote is
00:44:45.000
split by the moderates and he's getting a lot of media attention and money. But I think it's because
00:44:49.640
he's bamboozled a lot of people. He's just a kind of, I don't know, grifter is the wrong word.
00:44:56.360
I think he's a dramatic actor who's bullshitting his way into power. What do you think?
00:45:00.280
Yeah, I think it's government by theater kid. You know, there's, there's a lot of that on the
00:45:05.080
democratic side of the aisle. And I mean, you know, you can get into office and then you got
00:45:09.960
to run the city of New York. And as he's never had experience running any kind of enterprise of
00:45:15.640
any sort, the biggest enterprise he's ever run is his campaign. That's it. He's a, he's, you know,
00:45:20.280
mid thirties has, has, I don't know that he's had a real job in his entire life and he's going to run
00:45:24.600
the city of New York. He doesn't understand the first thing about the city of New York. He became a citizen
00:45:28.920
seven years ago. That's it. I mean, he's no business running, running us even like a small
00:45:35.320
city. I think there's something to the, the way the ego involved in thinking he, he ought be the
00:45:42.440
mayor of New York. It's a, it's a remarkably egotistical position for him to hold.
00:45:46.040
Yeah. Well, they said a lot of those things about Sadiq Khan and he remains the mayor of London and
00:45:52.280
certainly he is putting a stamp on it. And again, is he Islamist? In some ways he is. It's more what
00:45:58.760
he tolerates than what he does. And of course he has his fanaticisms, whether it's environmental
00:46:05.000
extremism or softer on crime. I, I fear that what has happened to London, God forbid, may happen to
00:46:11.160
New York. Last question to you. You talked about how the ultra rich are mobile. Of course they are.
00:46:18.680
New York is, it's an enormous inertia, enormous center of gravity. It's been down before. I think
00:46:23.160
of the seventies, the bad old days before Rudy Giuliani helped turn it around. So New York has
00:46:28.600
some resilience, even though people might move away. Is that, you know, you know, that phrase,
00:46:36.600
an immovable object and an irresistible force. There's a lot of things in New York that will not
00:46:42.040
go easily. I mean, it's a city full of fighters. It's a, it's a high politics, high stakes city has
00:46:48.760
been for 400 years almost. Can it resist Zoran Mamdani and eject him? Or can he break New York
00:46:57.560
and make it mold to him? If you had to bet on it, will he be successful in transforming that city?
00:47:03.960
Because he wants to transform it. Yeah, I think so. I think I, I don't think the,
00:47:10.040
the same inertia is there. I think a lot more people will exit. I feel like it's a different world
00:47:14.360
than it was in the 1990s in terms of there being alternative cities and places to live. I think
00:47:19.560
the move to a lot of work being remote, being done over zoom, being done on the internet. I think it's
00:47:24.120
just the, the, the stickiness of New York, I think is, is, has gone down dramatically. I don't think
00:47:29.160
it's as important for people to stay there to do their work. And as a result, you know, if Mamdani really
00:47:34.440
does succeed in implementing his program, I think people will sit, sit and stand up and say, you know
00:47:39.160
what? The weather's better in Miami anyway. Yeah. Wow. You know, never forget that Detroit was once
00:47:46.440
the city in America with the highest industrial wage. It's hard to believe that, that Detroit
00:47:51.080
was the city everyone wanted to go to, to get rich. And it was politics that undid it. Will,
00:47:56.920
great to catch up with you. We've been talking to Will Chamberlain, the Senior Counsel of the Article
00:48:00.120
3 Project. You can follow their work at a3paction.com. Great to see you. Keep in touch. Let's talk after the
00:48:07.080
election. Absolutely. Happy to do it. Thank you very much. Well, there you have it.
00:48:12.040
Didn't mean to depress anyone. Stay with us. Your letters to me next.
00:48:24.360
Hey, welcome back. Your letters to me, by the way, uh, we like to pick our letters from
00:48:28.440
your comments under the show. Of course, only rebel news plus subscribers can make those comments.
00:48:33.080
So it's great to see familiar names. I see that, um, uh, Michael Guillory has a question. He says,
00:48:38.520
rather than using the powers entrusted to them for the benefit of Canada, you're talking about
00:48:43.240
the AC and trade talks, they've turned us into hostages of their agenda. Is there any way Canadians
00:48:48.920
can be set free to enjoy the wealth of natural resources, which can benefit many countries who've
00:48:54.680
asked to trade with us? That's the thing is I see Carney was in Singapore today. Singapore is a very
00:49:00.280
energetic place. It's sort of like Hong Kong, but not under the thumb of communist China.
00:49:04.920
They don't have a lot of natural resources there. They surely could benefit from our LNG natural gas,
00:49:11.400
probably from our oil as well. But Mark Carney is against those things because of carbon.
00:49:17.800
Don Harachek says, no oil and gas man speaks again. Yeah. Did you think that Mark Carney,
00:49:23.400
after spending 20 years going to war against oil and gas, and by the way, his wife is even more radical
00:49:28.440
than him? Did you, did you really think that maybe that suddenly he believes in oil and gas? Yeah,
00:49:35.000
not, not really. Um, on my interview with Sheila Gunn-Reed last night, Bruce Atchison says the large
00:49:41.080
crowd versus the naysayers proves that autonomy is possible in Alberta. It certainly is possible.
00:49:47.240
Now, whether or not there's enough momentum there to have a kind of Brexit is yet to be known. Brexit,
00:49:53.160
that's when the UK left the European Union. They had a few things going for them. First of all,
00:49:58.680
they had Nigel Farage, who was an eloquent speaker, well known, who campaigned full tilt. And he was,
00:50:05.080
he was a force of nature. I don't think the movement in Alberta has that. Second of all,
00:50:11.320
it was a very grand moment. People realized that this was do or die. The whole nation of the UK was
00:50:18.120
talking about it. Um, so, so there was a strong turnout and it was a very motivated turnout. I'm
00:50:24.760
not sure if that's the case on the ground yet. And, um, I don't know. It's, it was, it was an
00:50:31.240
impressive turnout. Will that turn into 51% of people voting in a referendum? Well, we'll see.
00:50:38.520
I tell you one thing. If Mark Carney blocks Alberta's oil pipelines, you might just see an independence vote
00:50:45.880
in Alberta. Well, that's our show for today until tomorrow on behalf of all of us here at rebel
00:50:51.720
world headquarters to you at home. Good night and keep fighting for freedom.