Rebel News Podcast - August 09, 2023


EZRA LEVANT | Russian economy surpasses Germany to become the largest in Europe — How is it possible?

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Mentioned
EZRA LEVANT | The best Rebel videos of 2023 (so far), including one that passed 1M views DAVID MENZIES | The shocking reason why female rugby players were stopped from speaking out about biological male opponent

Episode Stats


Length

43 minutes

Words per minute

168.43

Word count

7,374

Sentence count

569

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In the past year, Russia's economy has overtaken Germany's to become the largest in Europe. How is it possible? In part 1 of a two-part series on the Ukraine-Russia conflict, Ezra Levenrant explains why.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. I want to tell you two facts about Russia and Ukraine that I don't think you would know if you only consumed Canadian media.
00:00:08.780 The first is a shocking new report about Russia's economic strength published by the World Bank.
00:00:14.440 And the second is a Russian connection in a coup in Africa.
00:00:18.840 I'd love your thoughts on these.
00:00:20.380 But first, I want to make sure you're signed up for what we call Rebel News Plus.
00:00:23.860 It's the video version of this podcast.
00:00:25.680 I'm going to show you some interesting footage from that African country of Niger or Niger.
00:00:31.800 I'd love you to be able to see it.
00:00:33.180 Go to rebelnewsplus.com.
00:00:34.600 Click subscribe.
00:00:35.320 It's eight bucks a month.
00:00:36.540 And you get all the videos that we show.
00:00:38.840 And you help support Rebel News because, as you know, we don't take any dough from Trudeau.
00:00:43.200 All right.
00:00:43.520 Here's today's show.
00:00:48.220 Tonight, how is it possible?
00:00:50.080 In the past year, Russia's economy has overtaken Germany to become the largest in Europe.
00:00:57.080 It's August 9th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
00:00:59.600 We're fighting for freedom.
00:01:02.500 Shame on you, you censorious bug.
00:01:05.640 I'm careful when talking about Ukraine, not because it's politically sensitive.
00:01:18.500 We talk about politically sensitive things all the time, and hopefully we thread the needle correctly.
00:01:23.780 But rather because there is so much propaganda out there, which is how wars go, I don't need help coming up with an opinion about the war.
00:01:31.960 I need help coming up with facts about the war.
00:01:34.480 As I've told you before, the only method I think I can really rely on is when either side, NATO or Russia, makes an admission against their own interests, as in when they tell you bad news about themselves.
00:01:47.100 That's the difference between dog bites man and man bites dog, isn't it?
00:01:51.340 But even then, by the way, it could be propaganda.
00:01:55.540 I sense that Russia has deliberately published bad news about their state of affairs to give a false sense of confidence to the NATO side.
00:02:04.980 I'm still puzzling over that one-day mini-rebellion by the Russian mercenaries called the Wagner Group.
00:02:11.540 Have you heard about them?
00:02:12.520 It was quite dramatic.
00:02:13.660 There was a column of tanks heading to Moscow.
00:02:16.480 It looked like maybe a coup was going to happen, the humiliation of a local Russian general.
00:02:22.700 But then it was over as soon as it started.
00:02:24.380 And Putin and the Wagner Group's boss, his name is Yevgeny Prigozhin, apparently they came to some deal in some way.
00:02:32.360 And the Wagner mercenaries moved to Belarus, Russia's ally.
00:02:36.460 And by the way, if you look at the map, the Belarus border is a lot closer to Kiev than the Russian border is.
00:02:43.440 I'm confused by that whole thing.
00:02:44.900 And that's what I mean about the fog of war and propaganda.
00:02:47.760 I think for a moment there, some in the West thought that Putin would undergo a regime change.
00:02:53.040 I don't know.
00:02:53.740 Do you know what to make of that?
00:02:54.800 I'm not embarrassed to say that I don't really understand.
00:02:58.540 And I suppose the one thing I can think of, I don't know, is that by definition, mercenaries work for money, right?
00:03:06.040 And if the West has dumped in over $100 billion into Ukraine with very little oversight, wouldn't shock me if the CIA did the math and realized that paying, I don't know, a billion dollars to Prigozhin to rebel and embarrass Putin and maybe knock him off might be a lot more cost effective than spending a billion dollars on more weapons systems to fight against Prigozhin than Putin.
00:03:28.720 And like I say, I have no idea.
00:03:31.080 So I've been reluctant to weigh in, certainly not daily, like the mainstream media has done.
00:03:37.880 It was fascinating.
00:03:38.860 As I mentioned, when I was in Hungary the other day, Viktor Orban, the prime minister there, was giving a keynote speech about the case for peace.
00:03:45.340 And I was certain he was going to talk in depth about the Ukraine-Russia war.
00:03:50.140 I mean, there's over 100,000 Hungarians in Ukraine that borders Hungary.
00:03:55.500 And he didn't.
00:03:57.480 He barely mentioned it.
00:03:58.700 He had talked about a lot of other things.
00:03:59.880 And he's a NATO ally, by the way.
00:04:01.840 I think most of the world is not as obsessed by the Russia-Ukraine war as our mainstream media is.
00:04:10.380 I mean, it's an important story to be sure.
00:04:12.120 And it's a terrible story, of course.
00:04:14.120 But I think especially here in Canada, we have more war cheerleading than we have war reporting, which strikes me as sort of un-Canadian.
00:04:24.300 I mean, here's the Trudeau we all thought we knew.
00:04:28.540 I haven't made up my mind.
00:04:30.500 But the onus is on Mr. Harper to demonstrate that a shift from a non-combat role that we've established right now to a combat role is the right thing for Canada, the right thing for Canadians.
00:04:43.780 But also the right thing for the international community.
00:04:48.320 There are an awful lot of things that Canada can and should be doing.
00:04:51.920 I mean, think about Canada's reputation around the world and what we've done around refugees.
00:04:56.440 Whether it be the Vietnamese boat people, whether it be the Ismailis in Uganda, in East Africa, whether it be even more recently the Tamil community fleeing a civil war in Sri Lanka.
00:05:16.280 Canada has been a place that draws in and helps refugees in a significant and serious way. 1.00
00:05:24.700 Now, in this situation, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of displaced peoples in the region who aren't looking to all leave the region.
00:05:33.000 That's where their homes are.
00:05:33.980 They need support to get through this very, very difficult time.
00:05:37.760 Canada has a capacity and an expertise in doing just that.
00:05:42.040 Why aren't we talking more about that?
00:05:44.180 Why aren't we talking more about the kind of humanitarian aid that Canada can and must be engaged in rather than, you know, trying to whip out our CF-18s and show them how big they are?
00:05:54.080 You know, it just doesn't work like that in Canada.
00:05:56.340 He hates the military.
00:05:59.060 He always has.
00:05:59.800 He likes to talk about peacekeeping even if he doesn't actually send peacekeepers around the world.
00:06:04.460 I mean, all liberals have been skeptical of the military.
00:06:07.060 Jean Chrétien refused to send troops to Iraq after 9-11.
00:06:10.480 That may have unintentionally been the right choice.
00:06:13.180 It was just his anti-Americanism.
00:06:15.840 Of course, Pierre Trudeau was an underminer of the military.
00:06:20.100 He was the original underminer.
00:06:21.640 So, to see Justin Trudeau now chant the war chant is a little bit odd.
00:06:27.360 Though, of course, we haven't really been able to follow through in action.
00:06:30.460 We really haven't been able to help in any material way.
00:06:33.060 We've sent some money.
00:06:34.300 But we don't really have any weapons to give.
00:06:36.620 We don't have any weapons to use, not even to train with our fellow NATO allies.
00:06:40.500 We were not there.
00:06:42.280 It reminds me of this.
00:06:44.940 Where would you put Canada in that as they're not?
00:06:47.120 I don't even like what they say, Canada, but they'll be okay.
00:06:49.840 I have confidence.
00:06:50.640 I have confidence, just slightly delinquent.
00:06:53.060 Canada does not meet the 2% standard.
00:06:55.540 Should it have a plan to meet the 2% standard?
00:06:58.640 Well, we'll put them on a payment plan, you know.
00:07:00.720 We'll put Canada on a payment plan, right?
00:07:02.580 I'm sure the Prime Minister would love that.
00:07:04.460 What are you at?
00:07:05.300 What is your number?
00:07:07.080 The number we talk about is 70% increase over these past years, including, and for the coming years,
00:07:14.240 including significant investments in our fighter jets, significant investments in our naval fleets.
00:07:22.020 We are increasing significantly our defense spending from previous governments that cut it.
00:07:27.360 Okay.
00:07:27.900 Where are you now in terms of your number?
00:07:30.540 One-fourth.
00:07:31.540 One-fourth.
00:07:32.520 And continuing to move forward.
00:07:33.940 They're getting there.
00:07:34.640 They know it's important to do that.
00:07:37.920 And their economy is doing well.
00:07:39.900 They'll get there quickly, I think.
00:07:41.080 Trump said it, and so does Joe Biden in his own way.
00:07:44.400 The whole world knows that Canada doesn't really carry our fair share when it comes to the military issues of the world,
00:07:52.580 certainly not NATO.
00:07:53.260 So, yeah, who knows what's really going on.
00:07:56.380 Only trusted missions made by parties that embarrass themselves, but even be skeptical of those.
00:08:00.520 They could be false flags or disinformation.
00:08:03.760 That whole mercenary revolt, I still don't know what that is.
00:08:06.720 So, I was surprised when I saw this, though.
00:08:08.960 In fact, I had to dig for a bit to prove it.
00:08:12.880 I heard a rumor on TikTok, of all places, that Russia last year had overtaken mighty Germany to become the largest economy in Europe
00:08:24.160 and now the fifth largest in the whole world.
00:08:27.160 Come on.
00:08:28.600 I mean, I honestly did not believe it at first.
00:08:31.820 And if it were true, by the way, why hadn't I heard about it in the mainstream media?
00:08:36.220 I mean, it sounds like big news.
00:08:39.140 How could it be, though, given the sanctions against Russia and how close Russia was to toppling over
00:08:44.400 and how this war was burning up all their money?
00:08:47.140 It was close to imploding.
00:08:48.440 That's what the news, that's sort of the narrative of the news.
00:08:51.960 But I managed to find the source.
00:08:53.980 And it is nothing less reputable than the World Bank.
00:08:57.320 Take a look at the World Bank's 2021 rankings of countries by gross domestic product measured using the purchasing power parity method.
00:09:08.460 I'll use an example to explain what purchasing power parity means.
00:09:11.680 Let's say someone earns $200,000 a year in Toronto or Vancouver, but someone else earns $175,000 a year in Red Deer, Alberta.
00:09:24.020 Who's richer?
00:09:24.720 Well, the obvious answer is the people in Toronto and Vancouver, right?
00:09:29.860 They're making $200,000 a year, except that's just in nominal dollars.
00:09:33.620 But taxes are lower in Alberta, and the cost of housing is much lower in Alberta.
00:09:39.060 The cost of a lot of things is lower.
00:09:40.280 So on a purchasing power parity basis, the person making $175,000 a year in Alberta is wealthier in terms of what they can buy.
00:09:51.120 It's basically taking a basket of goods and services and comparing how affordable that same basket is in a bunch of different countries.
00:09:58.680 It's sort of like that Big Mac test.
00:10:00.880 Have you ever heard of that?
00:10:02.000 How much does a Big Mac cost in each country?
00:10:04.680 Sort of a measure of wealth and prices.
00:10:07.060 Anyways, that's what gross domestic product purchasing power parity means, in case you were wondering.
00:10:12.880 It's sort of a way of leveling different countries so you're comparing apples to apples.
00:10:18.780 So here's what the World Bank says.
00:10:20.640 This is from 2021, before Russia invaded Ukraine.
00:10:26.180 It had a GDP of just under $4.8 trillion using the purchasing power parity method.
00:10:33.820 It was right behind mighty Germany. 0.95
00:10:35.780 Do you see that?
00:10:36.600 Germany had a GDP of just over $4.8 trillion.
00:10:39.620 As you can see, the top countries were China, the U.S., India, and Japan.
00:10:45.780 Now, obviously, this is the whole country together.
00:10:48.640 So that's more than a billion Chinese people together are wealthier than the 330 million U.S. people.
00:10:57.300 Interesting.
00:10:57.920 India is about the same population as China, but it's only about as one-third as wealthy.
00:11:04.180 Lots of interesting stats in there, don't you think?
00:11:07.120 Very interesting.
00:11:07.700 And remember, this is all based on their ability to buy a car, a meal, a house, adjusted to purchasing power.
00:11:14.600 But still, let's compare apples with apples.
00:11:17.760 So let's use the exact same study, the exact same chart by the exact same World Bank a year later.
00:11:24.400 So we just looked at 2021.
00:11:26.420 Here's 2022.
00:11:29.240 China is still the wealthiest country in the world.
00:11:31.200 America is still number two.
00:11:32.240 In fact, China increased its lead over America a little bit.
00:11:35.420 India and Japan are next again.
00:11:37.880 But look at that.
00:11:39.680 Russia has overtaken Germany. 0.89
00:11:42.540 Not by a lot, but it's ahead now.
00:11:46.660 How?
00:11:47.220 How did that happen, given that the West, United States, UK, put sanctions on Russia?
00:11:55.400 Given that Russia is spending money on a brutal war, how did they get richer than Germany? 0.50
00:12:00.400 And how did we not hear about this?
00:12:02.260 Well, that last part is easy to answer, isn't it?
00:12:05.520 I think the first part is sort of easy to answer, too.
00:12:08.040 If you're allowed to think critically, Russia has valuable things.
00:12:11.340 Oil, natural gas, minerals, wheat.
00:12:15.040 Lots of things that people around the world need, no matter what.
00:12:17.480 China and India will import oil and gas and food from anyone.
00:12:21.700 They don't care about social license or carbon taxes.
00:12:25.920 I mean, the liberals in Canada lied to us, saying no one will buy our oil and gas if we
00:12:30.160 don't impose environmental policies like carbon taxes.
00:12:33.540 We need social license. 0.98
00:12:34.460 That's nonsense.
00:12:36.160 OPEC and Russia dominate world energy markets, and they couldn't be more abusive to both
00:12:41.640 the environment and the people, too.
00:12:42.820 No one cares.
00:12:43.460 China, we, North America buys oil from Saudi Arabia and Iran.
00:12:48.100 We used to buy from Iran.
00:12:49.240 China still buys from Iran.
00:12:50.440 So, yeah, Russia has things that people want and will pay for, things that we in Canada could
00:12:55.920 produce, but we're deliberately sabotaging.
00:12:58.200 We are shutting down oil and gas and fracking.
00:13:00.600 And they're going to shut down farming next. 0.98
00:13:04.420 Imagine doing that while Russia is producing and selling what people need and want. 0.68
00:13:08.480 We're cracking down on oil men and farmers.
00:13:10.700 I think this would come as shocking news.
00:13:14.300 Russia's increase in its economy.
00:13:16.420 To most people who are convinced that Russia is teetering on the edge of a collapse and it's
00:13:22.560 going to rise up and depose Putin at any moment now, I don't think so.
00:13:26.840 In fact, I think the economy in the West is worse.
00:13:30.480 Yes, we're richer than Russia per capita, sure, but they're growing their economy and
00:13:35.060 they just leaped ahead of Germany's industrial might.
00:13:37.720 And that's in part because Germany is so obsessed with foolishly expensive alternative energy.
00:13:44.040 Don't kid yourselves.
00:13:46.600 But this is contrary to Trudeau's narrative, isn't it?
00:13:49.840 It suggests that Trudeau's virtue signaling is just virtue signaling.
00:13:54.040 But look at this.
00:13:55.800 I want to show you a second factoid, a second data point.
00:14:00.060 It's from Sky News in the UK, which is actually a mainstream media source.
00:14:04.040 But I think that the UK mainstream media, because it's very competitive over there and it's not
00:14:08.060 yet colonized by the government in the same way, I think it's still miles ahead of our media
00:14:12.940 when it comes to balanced reporting.
00:14:15.160 This starts off about Niger or Niger, as they call it, as a country in Africa that just had
00:14:19.740 a coup.
00:14:20.400 But then it ends talking about Russia.
00:14:22.460 Now, this is three and a half minutes long, but I learned so much from this.
00:14:26.700 Can I play for you this video about Niger or Niger, as I know in the country, and listen
00:14:34.760 to what they say about the American senior diplomat dispatched from the Biden administration,
00:14:40.740 and listen to how they end and what they talk about Russia.
00:14:43.180 Take a look.
00:14:44.080 Victoria Nuland was a very senior American diplomat, deputy secretary of state, second only 0.94
00:14:49.640 to Tony Blinken.
00:14:50.380 She didn't get very far when she went into the capital of Niger.
00:14:55.780 She couldn't get to see the previous president, the democratic elected president, President
00:15:01.040 Mohammed Barzun.
00:15:02.200 He's under house arrest, it seems.
00:15:04.000 Nobody's seen him since the coup of last week.
00:15:06.380 And General Chiani, who's taken over, the militia junta, wouldn't even meet her.
00:15:09.820 She got to see some representatives of Chiani, but not him himself.
00:15:14.860 And so she made some blandishments and threats.
00:15:17.720 She offered something.
00:15:18.860 She said that American aid would be suspended, and there was 230 million of that.
00:15:23.460 They are not listening.
00:15:24.420 The fact is that the coup leaders really don't care what the outside world thinks at the moment.
00:15:29.160 They're not impressed by the Americans, the French, the United Nations, or the economic
00:15:34.000 community of West African states.
00:15:36.000 It's a very poor country.
00:15:38.380 Niger itself is a big place, very big country, but it's pretty poor.
00:15:43.040 It's 177th on the World Bank index of 196 in terms of wealth.
00:15:48.860 Most of it, 80% of it, is Sahara Desert.
00:15:51.460 And of course, with climate change, the Sahara Desert is expanding.
00:15:55.360 Most of the people live in the southwest, where the capital is, in Naimei.
00:15:59.780 About 25 million people, but they live on subsistence farming.
00:16:03.060 The only thing that Niger has really got is uranium, but uranium can be found in many
00:16:07.540 other parts of the world.
00:16:09.240 Meanwhile, Niger is surrounded by a very unstable region.
00:16:13.280 The whole of the Sahel area is now increasingly unstable.
00:16:16.620 There have been military coups in Guinea.
00:16:18.760 There has been a military coup in Mali, a military coup in Burkina Faso.
00:16:23.880 And those three countries are now offering support to the military coup leaders in Niger.
00:16:28.200 And the Malian and Burkina Faso delegations have arrived in Niger in order to offer their
00:16:34.100 support.
00:16:34.640 And so three military leaders, in particular, are just standing together and defying the
00:16:39.280 rest of the world to do whatever they can.
00:16:41.440 And the answer is they can't do very much.
00:16:43.220 The only countries that could make a difference militarily would be Nigeria, which has quite 0.97
00:16:47.200 a big military, but not a very good one these days.
00:16:49.320 Or Chad, which also has quite a large military.
00:16:52.340 Nigeria is pretty reluctant to get involved militarily.
00:16:54.960 And Chad has said it definitely won't.
00:16:57.180 And so ECOWAS, the Economic Community of West African States, will meet on Thursday to talk
00:17:01.800 about what to do next.
00:17:03.260 The answer is they won't be able to do very much physically.
00:17:05.960 They may well take some sanctions, but they will only hurt the population of Niger even
00:17:10.560 more.
00:17:11.560 In addition to all of that, we've seen in the developments of Niger recently, Russian flags
00:17:17.380 appearing.
00:17:17.820 This was a rally that was held on Sunday.
00:17:20.320 Suddenly there were lots of Russian flags.
00:17:21.620 That was a staged rally, but nevertheless, it was tapping into something which the Niger
00:17:27.140 leaders, I think, are on to, which is the French are very unpopular, the West is very 0.91
00:17:30.540 unpopular.
00:17:31.400 They're explicitly turning to Russia for help.
00:17:34.220 And Chiani, the leader of the military junta, has said he wants the help of Wagner mercenaries.
00:17:39.560 And the Wagner mercenaries have said, yes, they will help.
00:17:42.200 They tried to get into Niger yesterday.
00:17:44.920 They seem to have been slightly repulsed by al-Qaeda, of all people, but they certainly will 1.00
00:17:48.820 be arriving and they will help.
00:17:50.640 The point about the whole region is that there are power vacuums developing all across the
00:17:55.060 Sahel.
00:17:55.920 And when there are power vacuums, the only people who will gain from those vacuums will
00:17:59.240 be jihadists like al-Qaeda and Islamic State, who are very active in the region, and Russian
00:18:04.460 mercenaries like Wagner.
00:18:06.180 It's all very destabilizing and it doesn't look good for the future.
00:18:09.520 Victoria Nuland really is the big deputy boss of the U.S. foreign policy. 1.00
00:18:16.580 They won't even meet with her.
00:18:18.460 Imagine that.
00:18:19.000 She flies all the way to Niger, and they send, what, the intern to meet with her?
00:18:24.240 I think American prestige around the world is falling.
00:18:28.160 And that breaks my heart because I love America.
00:18:30.380 I think they're the most noble country in the world, really.
00:18:32.840 I think Trump riveted the world.
00:18:35.540 Everyone was watching.
00:18:36.520 He was a showman.
00:18:37.220 He was in command, and even when he was eccentric or even erratic, it redounded to his benefit.
00:18:43.900 What I mean by that is the world was sort of scared of him, if nothing less.
00:18:48.580 It was a form of respect.
00:18:50.600 Don't trifle with Trump.
00:18:51.700 You'll have no idea what he'll do to you.
00:18:53.780 It's different with sleepy Grandpa Joe Biden and certainly his deputy deputy.
00:18:59.520 No one even cares to meet with her, and certainly not wagging their finger at Niger and Niger, 0.96
00:19:04.700 whose coups seem to be rooted in part in shucking off Western influence in the name of anti-colonialism.
00:19:11.840 They're mad at France, but they're mad at all the West. 0.98
00:19:14.580 I'm not sure that Joe Biden has any place in Niger.
00:19:16.980 But the Russian flag at the end, that's an interesting statement of allegiance, isn't it?
00:19:25.700 I don't like authoritarian rulers.
00:19:27.500 Not in Russia.
00:19:28.480 Not in Niger.
00:19:29.980 Not in Ukraine.
00:19:31.060 And certainly not in America or Canada.
00:19:32.660 And yeah, by the way, Joe Biden is acting like a banana republic boss,
00:19:37.580 trying to criminalize and jail Donald Trump, his rival and former president.
00:19:43.120 And yes, Trudeau acted like a banana republic authoritarian, too,
00:19:47.380 when he put our whole country under martial law and started seizing big accounts.
00:19:50.840 Maybe Niger sees that and says it'll join the other team,
00:19:57.320 one that's getting economically stronger, China and Russia,
00:20:00.920 and maybe militarily stronger, too.
00:20:04.020 What do you think?
00:20:05.860 Stay with us for more.
00:20:06.900 Well, this just in, folks.
00:20:17.060 It seems that Beijing-controlled media in Canada was used to enable election interference.
00:20:24.920 Now, I know that sounds preposterous and outrageous,
00:20:28.640 until you consider the fact that there are or were Chinese police stations
00:20:34.080 operating in our Great Dominion.
00:20:36.180 And so, if there is unofficial Chinese law enforcement occurring here,
00:20:41.860 then, hey, why not Beijing-orchestrated propaganda ploys, too?
00:20:47.840 Incredible.
00:20:49.220 And joining me now for more information on this story is Rebel News contributor,
00:20:55.140 Andy Lee.
00:20:55.900 Hey, Andy.
00:20:56.600 Welcome to the Ezra Levin Show.
00:20:59.000 Hi.
00:20:59.480 Thanks for having me.
00:21:00.600 Well, thank you for joining me.
00:21:02.020 Wow.
00:21:02.660 You know, I remember back in the 80s, I used to listen to a band from England called China Crisis.
00:21:09.080 But China Crisis is more than a title for an English new wave band.
00:21:15.660 It's what's happening right now in Canada would appear.
00:21:18.700 And it seems to be getting worse and worse.
00:21:21.500 Andy, what is this latest affront all about in the first place?
00:21:27.400 Yeah, I don't know if it's getting worse and worse, more that it's coming to the forefront.
00:21:34.400 I think it's been going on for a very long time.
00:21:37.460 So, yeah.
00:21:38.000 So, Sam Cooper has, you know, received some more CSIS documents, leaked some CSIS documents
00:21:43.400 that outline that there is a, you know, a campaign, a probation campaign.
00:21:48.280 It's apparently massively funded.
00:21:50.520 This isn't entirely surprising.
00:21:52.660 And we've done some work and some original reporting on some of those media outlets that
00:21:56.900 are tied to the Chinese Communist Party and the United Front Work Department.
00:22:00.940 So, we did put out an article, and I'm going to put out more on one establishment that's
00:22:05.040 called Red Maple News.
00:22:07.320 The president of Red Maple News also works for Russia Today.
00:22:12.720 She goes overseas.
00:22:14.360 She goes to the political conferences for the United Front Work Department.
00:22:17.520 And she also volunteers for Justin Trudeau and has got some, you know, personal, some
00:22:23.060 personal invite to Parliament Hill from Justin Trudeau.
00:22:28.060 So, but I mean, this isn't, again, it's not shocking.
00:22:30.700 There's a lot of these media outlets.
00:22:32.720 Mostly they operate in foreign language media.
00:22:34.960 They go a little bit under the radar.
00:22:36.820 Behind the scenes, they work with Jinhua and China News Service and things like that.
00:22:44.420 Now, these are entities, of course, that are considered foreign missions in the United States.
00:22:50.320 These are the kinds of establishments that definitely, in one instance, this particular
00:22:56.320 volunteer for the Liberal Party who met with Justin Trudeau, she did go to Parliament Hill
00:23:02.020 and then she went and reported that back to China News Service.
00:23:05.680 So she's obviously working for foreign missions.
00:23:09.080 So these are the kind of people who could be subjected to a foreign agent registry if we
00:23:13.480 ever get that piece of legislation in place.
00:23:16.160 So we've been doing work on that.
00:23:18.280 But Sam Cooper's documents outlined something a little bit new.
00:23:23.220 And that was that mainstream media has also been targeted in what he called a massively
00:23:30.100 funded foreign influence campaign.
00:23:32.620 So that was a bit of a bombshell revelation.
00:23:35.040 And again, not surprising that we've got, you know, Chinese-based news outlets.
00:23:40.460 And this volunteer who works for Trudeau, she does have an office in China.
00:23:45.240 And so, you know, she is partly based out of China.
00:23:48.440 So not entirely shocking that she would be cozying up to political leaders and trying
00:23:54.000 to push some pro-Beijing messaging and things like that.
00:23:57.280 And, you know, doing some work for the United Front.
00:24:00.160 Not shocking, but a little bit shocking to find it in our domestic stations right here at
00:24:05.460 home.
00:24:06.220 It's just incredible.
00:24:07.780 First of all, I won't even get into the abhorrent conflict of interest here with this
00:24:13.520 individual.
00:24:14.180 But, you know, I think it's all making sense, Andy.
00:24:18.260 Some 10 years ago, Blackface said at a meeting with exclusively women in Toronto that he had
00:24:26.180 admiration in his heart for the basic dictatorship of China in terms of getting things done. 0.65
00:24:32.040 I mean, the idea that a future Western leader would have admiration for the tyranny of China.
00:24:40.200 Trudeau's meeting last week with a group of Toronto women was an example.
00:24:46.960 Even with Sun TV watching for any slip, he was asked which country he most admired and referred to China.
00:24:53.580 There's a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is
00:25:04.220 allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, we need to go green
00:25:09.140 as fast as we need to start, you know, investing in solar.
00:25:12.060 I mean, there is a flexibility that I know Stephen Harper must dream about of having a
00:25:16.440 dictatorship that he could do everything he wanted that I find quite interesting.
00:25:21.280 It's astonishing in and of itself.
00:25:23.700 But when it comes to getting things done, you have to wonder, what did he mean by getting
00:25:27.920 things done?
00:25:28.620 Like, you know, electoral interference that's going to benefit blackface in the long run? 1.00
00:25:35.100 Is that what he was talking about?
00:25:36.840 And I guess that's my question.
00:25:39.200 All this tinkering and meandering, as far as you can tell, Andy, has it been effective
00:25:45.460 for the Liberals?
00:25:49.880 It's very, very difficult to gauge.
00:25:53.420 We know that interference happens.
00:25:55.980 They say that it wasn't enough to affect the election results.
00:25:59.720 I think it's very, very hard to gauge again, because there is, you know, a lot of these
00:26:05.360 electoral and campaigns and things like that that are pushed by people who might have ties
00:26:12.200 to the Chinese Communist Party or ties to the United Front.
00:26:15.780 And when I say that, I mean that this isn't under dispute.
00:26:19.080 Some of them have got personal invitations that I've seen from Xi Jinping inviting them
00:26:23.880 to meetings overseas like this.
00:26:25.940 So this isn't in dispute that they have dual loyalties if they're not outright here working
00:26:31.860 for China.
00:26:32.840 So a lot of them run hometown associations.
00:26:35.240 We know that they stem from some main ones and then they branch off.
00:26:38.720 And there's there's hundreds of these.
00:26:40.700 I mean, they consist of tens of thousands of members who are probably sympathetic to those
00:26:46.960 causes.
00:26:47.380 I'm not going to say that every tonight's community association is a united front operation.
00:26:52.540 That's not the case at all.
00:26:53.980 And a lot of them literally do good work in the community.
00:26:57.080 And that's how they sort of get away with this is they fall into this gray zone where
00:27:01.360 maybe they're not outright committing something that might be criminal in our country yet,
00:27:07.680 unless we get some sort of stronger legislation.
00:27:10.160 But they do definitely have some underlying motivation and some, you know, some loyalty to
00:27:16.860 the Chinese Communist Party.
00:27:18.020 So we know that that's how many members, tens of thousands.
00:27:23.980 Does it benefit the Liberals?
00:27:25.260 They usually throw their weight behind the Liberals.
00:27:28.700 Not always, though.
00:27:30.660 I mean, they're chameleons.
00:27:32.740 They'll fall behind whoever they think is supportive of their cause.
00:27:37.340 And one of them that they threw their weight, of course, behind was Mr. Key.
00:27:42.560 Right.
00:27:43.380 So he was a PC MPP.
00:27:47.340 And so a lot of these community associations have thrown their weight behind them.
00:27:51.920 They also throw them behind Conservative Senator Royo.
00:27:55.320 So, you know, they'll throw their weight behind who they think will, you know, fulfill whatever
00:28:00.440 their needs are, which are usually to get more sympathetic views towards China.
00:28:05.780 So that's what we're dealing with.
00:28:07.760 And we also got a little bit of a taste of what they can do during the recent protest against
00:28:14.580 a foreign agent registry.
00:28:16.600 So this was, you know, it was an event, a demonstration that was planned on Parliament Hill on June 24th.
00:28:23.060 It was done in commemoration, apparently, of the Chinese Exclusion Act, the 100th anniversary
00:28:32.380 of the Chinese Exclusion Act.
00:28:33.780 So it was sort of used as a front, this celebration, to also say that we should reject all modern
00:28:42.360 day forms of exclusion.
00:28:44.800 And what they mean when they say that is that we should reject a foreign agent registry.
00:28:49.220 And, of course, a foreign agent registry would apply to a lot of these people.
00:28:53.100 So they put out calls.
00:28:54.880 They managed to get buses.
00:28:57.060 They were funded by community associations.
00:28:58.820 And they got a number of a couple of thousand people.
00:29:01.060 So that gives you an idea of how quickly and how many people they're able to mobilize.
00:29:06.500 Is it enough to sway an election?
00:29:08.520 Hard to say.
00:29:09.380 Is it enough to sway a rioting or two?
00:29:11.220 I think certainly.
00:29:12.940 And I've got no doubt.
00:29:13.880 So when you look at the campaign against Aaron O'Toole, and I have looked into that network
00:29:19.320 a little bit and found some foreign media outlets that were picking up on negative WeChat
00:29:23.720 posts against Aaron and amplifying those messages.
00:29:27.500 And Aaron, by most means, was a moderate conservative leader.
00:29:32.120 I wouldn't say he was a hardliner or that anybody would expect him to take a particularly
00:29:36.580 hard line on China.
00:29:38.020 And we know that Pierre has the potential to be a much maybe firmer leader, I would say,
00:29:44.940 and a lot more aggressive in his foreign policy and things like that.
00:29:48.160 So when you look at the attack campaign that went up against Aaron O'Toole, and that's not
00:29:52.440 again, that's not speculative.
00:29:53.520 That was confirmed by CSIS that this happened.
00:29:56.160 And Aaron was briefed on it.
00:29:57.460 I think we can expect a much stronger reaction against Pierre.
00:30:01.300 And I can expect it to be in the tens of thousands.
00:30:04.140 Yeah, I think you're right.
00:30:04.860 I mean, geez, what a waste of effort having a campaign against Aaron O'Toole, given how
00:30:11.740 weak he was in the 2021 campaign.
00:30:15.140 It reminds me of the knock against the Los Angeles Police Department in that the in the
00:30:21.740 case against OJ Simpson, the LAPD framed a guilty man.
00:30:25.780 But anyway, enough about yesterday's man, Aaron O'Toole.
00:30:30.120 Well, you mentioned we don't have a foreign agent registry.
00:30:35.940 Andy, that seems to be a no brainer to me.
00:30:39.040 Other nations have this.
00:30:40.560 Why don't we have it?
00:30:43.600 That's a good question.
00:30:44.740 Why don't we have it?
00:30:45.900 The last one who tried the last person who tried to introduce one, of course, was was
00:30:51.000 Mr. Kenny Chu, and he was a conservative MP, and he ended up becoming a victim of a WeChat
00:30:58.320 disinformation campaign himself and ended up being unseated in the federal election,
00:31:05.220 unfortunately.
00:31:06.160 And that piece of legislation that he had introduced died with him.
00:31:10.080 Now, that's not a coincidence that they happened to go after him so vehemently.
00:31:13.540 And again, you have to understand a foreign agent registry, it is it's a piece of common
00:31:17.360 sense legislation, and it doesn't necessarily say that these activities are legal.
00:31:23.920 What it says is that if you take the case of, say, Justin Trudeau's liberal volunteer,
00:31:31.600 you know, if you want to apply it to her.
00:31:33.600 Well, yes.
00:31:34.000 If she is reporting on behalf of foreign missions like China News and China News Service, and
00:31:40.660 if she's going overseas and, you know, meeting with the United Front, meeting with Xi Jinping
00:31:45.560 and not just meeting with him, she actually gives speeches in the Great Hall and direction
00:31:51.040 and things like that.
00:31:52.240 So she's, you know, got very, very deep ties to the regime.
00:31:56.040 What it says is that you need to register and let us know what you're doing, if you're
00:32:01.080 getting money from the government, how you're interacting with them, give us your disbursements.
00:32:05.700 It's not saying that it's illegal.
00:32:08.640 It's saying you have to, you know, be upfront about those activities.
00:32:13.940 And if you're lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, it doesn't mean it has to be the
00:32:17.260 Chinese government.
00:32:18.400 You have to let us know.
00:32:19.620 And if you don't let us know, and if we catch you doing it, then we'll subject you to
00:32:23.580 FARAH.
00:32:23.920 And this is how, of course, New York was able to nail the people who were running their overseas
00:32:31.160 Chinese police stations as they used to FARAH against them, which is something that we don't
00:32:36.040 have.
00:32:37.220 Yeah.
00:32:37.660 No, all we're asking for is transparency.
00:32:39.960 And when it comes to all this Chinese interference, Andy, I mean, we have a brand new mayor in Toronto,
00:32:47.520 Olivia Chow.
00:32:48.300 And I believe it was the National Post and very few others that reported that she was
00:32:53.960 at a, I guess, at an organization that was pro-Beijing government, received a gift from
00:33:00.780 them.
00:33:01.500 And it was astonishing because to her credit, Ms. Chow, once upon a time, was going to bat
00:33:06.680 for the rights of the people in Hong Kong.
00:33:09.040 But I guess if there's an election on the line, sorry, guys, it's strictly business.
00:33:14.320 And if this can generate more votes, so be it.
00:33:19.700 You know, Andy, we're running out of time here.
00:33:22.680 But what I want to, first of all, my take on this, I think in the big picture, there is
00:33:30.980 a tragedy afoot here because we don't have great turnouts at election time in the best
00:33:38.240 of times, but I'm worried that people hear about all this election interference and it's
00:33:45.240 like they think, oh, you know what, as they say in Vegas, the fix is in, it's all predetermined.
00:33:52.020 What does it matter if I even come out?
00:33:55.440 It's a predestined fate.
00:33:57.400 So I'm just wondering if you think, as I do, this might lead to so much voter frustration
00:34:04.020 that they won't show up at the ballot box on Election Day.
00:34:09.000 And finally, if you had the ear of the authorities in terms of doing something to prevent this
00:34:16.820 or to be at least transparent, what would the Andy Lee plan be?
00:34:22.020 Yeah, well, that's, I mean, that is the frustrating part about all of this is it is undermining
00:34:29.080 voter confidence and the integrity of our democratic processes and our election systems.
00:34:34.560 And, you know, our national security advisors have tried to assuage some of those fears and
00:34:40.000 things like that and say that our elections were secure.
00:34:44.240 And like I said, I don't believe that even if some writings were maybe overcome through
00:34:49.640 some kind of dissolution campaigns, it would make a difference in the last election.
00:34:53.580 That being said, it could make an election.
00:34:56.780 So it's not supposed to be discounted or taken lightly or dismissed any longer because new
00:35:03.060 groups up every day, right?
00:35:05.020 When I see there's hundreds, I mean, like there's new ones coming up every day.
00:35:08.540 A new one was just launched in Vancouver.
00:35:10.140 And a lot of times they do have pro-Beijing messaging and they'll find councillors or provincial
00:35:17.140 MPs or mayors or federal candidates and they'll throw their weight behind them.
00:35:22.540 So, you know, I think the first thing to do is get some more of this information out there
00:35:29.500 in the form of a transparent public inquiry.
00:35:33.360 I've always been a big proponent of that.
00:35:35.420 I think that even if we can't see the information and some of it will be classified, it will shine
00:35:44.580 a little bit more light and it will also restore public confidence in the process, which is
00:35:51.160 very, very important.
00:35:52.180 We have to be confident in our democracy.
00:35:56.100 So I think that that's part of it and to do it in a nonpartisan way.
00:36:00.060 And unfortunately, the last choice I felt for the special rapporteur was a poor one.
00:36:07.420 And he obviously had a long history with Justin Trudeau and China.
00:36:12.280 And when pulled in front of committee, it was acknowledged that he had not seen all the
00:36:17.680 information.
00:36:18.900 And he had put out some conflicting information in his report that contradicted what CSIS told
00:36:24.240 Aaron O'Toole.
00:36:25.060 Also contradicted some of these leaked CSIS briefings, which brings, you know, the point
00:36:30.800 of did he see the CSIS briefings?
00:36:32.900 Were they presented to him?
00:36:34.160 Were they not presented to him at all?
00:36:36.580 So that's part of it.
00:36:39.100 And then part of it is that we need a FARA.
00:36:41.580 We need a Foreign Agent Registration Act.
00:36:43.640 Like, if we had one, that would have cut so much off right before it started.
00:36:52.920 Because they're not going to bother if they know that they're openly conducting activities.
00:36:57.680 They're not going to be risk going through what the fellows in New York went through,
00:37:02.280 right?
00:37:02.940 We know who's running these so-called overseas police stations.
00:37:06.780 And there's been no action on them.
00:37:08.520 But they certainly could have been subjected to more serious action if we had a FARA type
00:37:14.120 piece of legislation in place.
00:37:16.000 So that's part of it.
00:37:16.920 And also, politicians need to stop engaging with these news outlets.
00:37:21.940 I'm not the first person to figure out that most of these foreign media outlets are just 0.94
00:37:27.680 covers or satellite stations for state TV sources, right?
00:37:32.160 I refuse to believe that.
00:37:33.900 I refuse to believe that CSIS didn't know it.
00:37:36.200 Of course they know it.
00:37:37.020 Of course, these briefings have passed through the PMO and, you know, have come to somebody's
00:37:43.600 attention.
00:37:44.220 But they continue to engage with them, you know, and they understand that, you know, these
00:37:53.520 are news outlets that in other countries are designated foreign agents of the Chinese government.
00:38:00.520 So I think that we can expect them to quell their activities a little bit and cool their
00:38:05.720 heels in that regard.
00:38:06.740 Or I'd like to see that anyways from our politicians being a little bit more responsible.
00:38:11.380 Olivia Chow is a great example, actually. 0.93
00:38:14.220 And I don't know.
00:38:15.600 Olivia Chow is not a Chinese agent.
00:38:18.120 She's not.
00:38:19.440 I don't believe that for a minute.
00:38:21.040 I actually believe that she's firmly pro-democracy.
00:38:23.840 I believe that in my heart.
00:38:26.420 I don't think that she's working for the Chinese state, but she's a great example in how she 0.95
00:38:30.580 had no qualms at election time of tapping this association, this association, which is
00:38:37.340 known pro-Beijing.
00:38:39.420 The people who run it are not everyday Canadian citizens.
00:38:42.900 These are the sort of people who go overseas, get invited to political conferences, and go
00:38:47.360 and meet with Xi Jinping.
00:38:48.320 Okay, so this is not your standard behavior for a Canadian citizen when you're invited
00:38:53.120 overseas to go meet the supreme leader of China.
00:38:56.000 We have to know exactly what's going on there.
00:38:59.200 So Olivia, a great example of somebody who got caught up tapping these networks.
00:39:03.660 And when she got caught, she was very, very sorry.
00:39:05.600 She actually put out an apology video, but it's too bad.
00:39:08.360 She put it out only in Cantonese.
00:39:10.420 I had it translated.
00:39:12.940 I actually asked her, I want to reach out to her and ask her if she could read it in English.
00:39:17.700 But this is what people say, and some of the articles and her supporters say, well, this
00:39:21.960 is a necessary evil for politicians to tap these networks, to win that support.
00:39:28.000 Well, why is this a necessary evil to support a group that you know is pro-Beijing and maybe
00:39:34.180 goes against your own moral beliefs?
00:39:36.520 As I believe that it shouldn't be a necessary evil in a democratic country, right?
00:39:41.540 They shouldn't be winning an election.
00:39:43.680 You shouldn't need to tap that network to feel confident that you're going to be able
00:39:47.760 to get that vote.
00:39:49.140 And a lot of the stuff that I go through is done with Chinese Canadians who are pro-democracy.
00:39:55.300 And, you know, we go through this stuff and they're appalled to see their leaders,
00:39:58.980 you know, using these, you know, these United Front organizations and things like that to win
00:40:04.560 elections.
00:40:05.140 It's very, very disappointing.
00:40:06.460 Well, Andy, I got to tell you, in the here and now, in the short term, at least, I remain
00:40:12.700 very pessimistic that blackface is going to do anything tangible because I personally
00:40:18.580 think the primary beneficiary of Chinese interference is indeed the blackface liberals. 0.96
00:40:26.020 And so I think we might need regime change here in Canada before we get any traction on this
00:40:33.480 file.
00:40:33.700 But it was a wonderful piece you authored.
00:40:35.980 I look forward to your follow-ups.
00:40:38.140 And let's keep an eye on this.
00:40:40.280 So thank you very much, Andy Lee, for joining me today.
00:40:44.000 Yeah.
00:40:44.400 Thanks for having me.
00:40:45.060 Anytime, Dave.
00:40:45.960 Got it.
00:40:56.940 Special thanks to my friend David Menzies for doing the guest segment.
00:40:59.960 Hey, let me just leave with you with a final thought on Ukraine.
00:41:03.800 I, like I say, I stumbled across that statistic about its economy growing.
00:41:08.020 And I was very skeptical.
00:41:09.660 I didn't retweet it or anything until I chased down the original source, the World Bank.
00:41:16.600 And I mentioned that to another senior journalist I bumped into in town, very senior at a very
00:41:22.340 large publication.
00:41:23.200 I won't say who.
00:41:24.280 He didn't believe it.
00:41:25.600 He was stunned.
00:41:26.900 He said, no, no, their economy's in a shambles, he said.
00:41:30.060 And this is a smart dude.
00:41:33.340 I think it's because we have been told only one side of the story.
00:41:37.360 I, by the way, I later sent him the documents and I had a bit of a back and forth with him.
00:41:41.900 But my point is, there's a smart guy in the media, skeptical guy, often a contrarian.
00:41:48.520 And he was certain that Russia was just on the brink of collapsing and that, of course,
00:41:54.200 their economy was dashed.
00:41:55.360 And, of course, it's absurd to think that Russia could even exceed Germany. 0.67
00:41:59.360 Germany has been an industrial heartland for 100 years.
00:42:02.680 And it was incredible to watch him realize that he, everything he thought he knew was wrong
00:42:09.940 if these World Bank figures are correct, and I'm quite sure that they are.
00:42:14.220 And to watch him sort of recalculate a disillusionment there, because I think that so many people,
00:42:21.200 and this guy is not a bad guy in any way, he's not an ideologue.
00:42:24.040 And to see him say, oh, so that's the truth?
00:42:28.880 I could see other questions in his mind, like, oh, so maybe victory isn't just around the corner.
00:42:34.120 And maybe, maybe a diplomatic solution might be something we should even consider.
00:42:40.060 And maybe when we say we're going to stick with this war till the end, 0.66
00:42:44.400 what does that mean when your enemy is actually getting stronger?
00:42:49.680 I think we need a lot more truth about Ukraine.
00:42:52.420 And I think we need to do what's best for the Ukrainian people.
00:42:56.160 Obviously, our interest as Canadians is to do what's best for us.
00:42:59.240 But if we're going to meddle overseas, and it looks like we are,
00:43:02.540 what's actually the best thing for Ukrainian men and women?
00:43:07.060 Is it to continue to send them in as cannon fodder to be chewed up by Putin's military?
00:43:12.840 I just can't think that doing the same thing for another 18 months is the way.
00:43:17.560 You tell me.
00:43:18.280 You tell me if wanting peace, if you can want peace without being a Putin shill. 0.82
00:43:24.840 In fact, isn't peace something you only make with your enemies?
00:43:28.420 I don't think you make peace with your friends.
00:43:29.860 You're already at peace with them.
00:43:31.300 It's a tricky one.
00:43:32.200 But watching my counterpart at another media company see the scales fall off his eyes was quite something.
00:43:39.380 That's our show for today.
00:43:41.020 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night.
00:43:44.860 And keep fighting for freedom.
00:43:46.720 Thank you.