Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Russian economy surpasses Germany to become the largest in Europe — How is it possible？

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. I want to tell you two facts about Russia and Ukraine that I don't think you would know if you only consumed Canadian media.

00:00:08.780 The first is a shocking new report about Russia's economic strength published by the World Bank.

00:00:14.440 And the second is a Russian connection in a coup in Africa.

00:00:18.840 I'd love your thoughts on these.

00:00:20.380 But first, I want to make sure you're signed up for what we call Rebel News Plus.

00:00:23.860 It's the video version of this podcast.

00:00:25.680 I'm going to show you some interesting footage from that African country of Niger or Niger.

00:00:31.800 I'd love you to be able to see it.

00:00:33.180 Go to rebelnewsplus.com.

00:00:34.600 Click subscribe.

00:00:35.320 It's eight bucks a month.

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00:00:38.840 And you help support Rebel News because, as you know, we don't take any dough from Trudeau.

00:00:43.200 All right.

00:00:43.520 Here's today's show.

00:00:48.220 Tonight, how is it possible?

00:00:50.080 In the past year, Russia's economy has overtaken Germany to become the largest in Europe.

00:00:57.080 It's August 9th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:59.600 We're fighting for freedom.

00:01:02.500 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:05.640 I'm careful when talking about Ukraine, not because it's politically sensitive.

00:01:18.500 We talk about politically sensitive things all the time, and hopefully we thread the needle correctly.

00:01:23.780 But rather because there is so much propaganda out there, which is how wars go, I don't need help coming up with an opinion about the war.

00:01:31.960 I need help coming up with facts about the war.

00:01:34.480 As I've told you before, the only method I think I can really rely on is when either side, NATO or Russia, makes an admission against their own interests, as in when they tell you bad news about themselves.

00:01:47.100 That's the difference between dog bites man and man bites dog, isn't it?

00:01:51.340 But even then, by the way, it could be propaganda.

00:01:55.540 I sense that Russia has deliberately published bad news about their state of affairs to give a false sense of confidence to the NATO side.

00:02:04.980 I'm still puzzling over that one-day mini-rebellion by the Russian mercenaries called the Wagner Group.

00:02:11.540 Have you heard about them?

00:02:12.520 It was quite dramatic.

00:02:13.660 There was a column of tanks heading to Moscow.

00:02:16.480 It looked like maybe a coup was going to happen, the humiliation of a local Russian general.

00:02:22.700 But then it was over as soon as it started.

00:02:24.380 And Putin and the Wagner Group's boss, his name is Yevgeny Prigozhin, apparently they came to some deal in some way.

00:02:32.360 And the Wagner mercenaries moved to Belarus, Russia's ally.

00:02:36.460 And by the way, if you look at the map, the Belarus border is a lot closer to Kiev than the Russian border is.

00:02:43.440 I'm confused by that whole thing.

00:02:44.900 And that's what I mean about the fog of war and propaganda.

00:02:47.760 I think for a moment there, some in the West thought that Putin would undergo a regime change.

00:02:53.040 I don't know.

00:02:53.740 Do you know what to make of that?

00:02:54.800 I'm not embarrassed to say that I don't really understand.

00:02:58.540 And I suppose the one thing I can think of, I don't know, is that by definition, mercenaries work for money, right?

00:03:06.040 And if the West has dumped in over $100 billion into Ukraine with very little oversight, wouldn't shock me if the CIA did the math and realized that paying, I don't know, a billion dollars to Prigozhin to rebel and embarrass Putin and maybe knock him off might be a lot more cost effective than spending a billion dollars on more weapons systems to fight against Prigozhin than Putin.

00:03:28.720 And like I say, I have no idea.

00:03:31.080 So I've been reluctant to weigh in, certainly not daily, like the mainstream media has done.

00:03:37.880 It was fascinating.

00:03:38.860 As I mentioned, when I was in Hungary the other day, Viktor Orban, the prime minister there, was giving a keynote speech about the case for peace.

00:03:45.340 And I was certain he was going to talk in depth about the Ukraine-Russia war.

00:03:50.140 I mean, there's over 100,000 Hungarians in Ukraine that borders Hungary.

00:03:55.500 And he didn't.

00:03:57.480 He barely mentioned it.

00:03:58.700 He had talked about a lot of other things.

00:03:59.880 And he's a NATO ally, by the way.

00:04:01.840 I think most of the world is not as obsessed by the Russia-Ukraine war as our mainstream media is.

00:04:10.380 I mean, it's an important story to be sure.

00:04:12.120 And it's a terrible story, of course.

00:04:14.120 But I think especially here in Canada, we have more war cheerleading than we have war reporting, which strikes me as sort of un-Canadian.

00:04:24.300 I mean, here's the Trudeau we all thought we knew.

00:04:28.540 I haven't made up my mind.

00:04:30.500 But the onus is on Mr. Harper to demonstrate that a shift from a non-combat role that we've established right now to a combat role is the right thing for Canada, the right thing for Canadians.

00:04:43.780 But also the right thing for the international community.

00:04:48.320 There are an awful lot of things that Canada can and should be doing.

00:04:51.920 I mean, think about Canada's reputation around the world and what we've done around refugees.

00:04:56.440 Whether it be the Vietnamese boat people, whether it be the Ismailis in Uganda, in East Africa, whether it be even more recently the Tamil community fleeing a civil war in Sri Lanka.

00:05:16.280 Canada has been a place that draws in and helps refugees in a significant and serious way. 1.00

00:05:24.700 Now, in this situation, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of displaced peoples in the region who aren't looking to all leave the region.

00:05:33.000 That's where their homes are.

00:05:33.980 They need support to get through this very, very difficult time.

00:05:37.760 Canada has a capacity and an expertise in doing just that.

00:05:42.040 Why aren't we talking more about that?

00:05:44.180 Why aren't we talking more about the kind of humanitarian aid that Canada can and must be engaged in rather than, you know, trying to whip out our CF-18s and show them how big they are?

00:05:54.080 You know, it just doesn't work like that in Canada.

00:05:56.340 He hates the military.

00:05:59.060 He always has.

00:05:59.800 He likes to talk about peacekeeping even if he doesn't actually send peacekeepers around the world.

00:06:04.460 I mean, all liberals have been skeptical of the military.

00:06:07.060 Jean Chrétien refused to send troops to Iraq after 9-11.

00:06:10.480 That may have unintentionally been the right choice.

00:06:13.180 It was just his anti-Americanism.

00:06:15.840 Of course, Pierre Trudeau was an underminer of the military.

00:06:20.100 He was the original underminer.

00:06:21.640 So, to see Justin Trudeau now chant the war chant is a little bit odd.

00:06:27.360 Though, of course, we haven't really been able to follow through in action.

00:06:30.460 We really haven't been able to help in any material way.

00:06:33.060 We've sent some money.

00:06:34.300 But we don't really have any weapons to give.

00:06:36.620 We don't have any weapons to use, not even to train with our fellow NATO allies.

00:06:40.500 We were not there.

00:06:42.280 It reminds me of this.

00:06:44.940 Where would you put Canada in that as they're not?

00:06:47.120 I don't even like what they say, Canada, but they'll be okay.

00:06:49.840 I have confidence.

00:06:50.640 I have confidence, just slightly delinquent.

00:06:53.060 Canada does not meet the 2% standard.

00:06:55.540 Should it have a plan to meet the 2% standard?

00:06:58.640 Well, we'll put them on a payment plan, you know.

00:07:00.720 We'll put Canada on a payment plan, right?

00:07:02.580 I'm sure the Prime Minister would love that.

00:07:04.460 What are you at?

00:07:05.300 What is your number?

00:07:07.080 The number we talk about is 70% increase over these past years, including, and for the coming years,

00:07:14.240 including significant investments in our fighter jets, significant investments in our naval fleets.

00:07:22.020 We are increasing significantly our defense spending from previous governments that cut it.

00:07:27.360 Okay.

00:07:27.900 Where are you now in terms of your number?

00:07:30.540 One-fourth.

00:07:31.540 One-fourth.

00:07:32.520 And continuing to move forward.

00:07:33.940 They're getting there.

00:07:34.640 They know it's important to do that.

00:07:37.920 And their economy is doing well.

00:07:39.900 They'll get there quickly, I think.

00:07:41.080 Trump said it, and so does Joe Biden in his own way.

00:07:44.400 The whole world knows that Canada doesn't really carry our fair share when it comes to the military issues of the world,

00:07:52.580 certainly not NATO.

00:07:53.260 So, yeah, who knows what's really going on.

00:07:56.380 Only trusted missions made by parties that embarrass themselves, but even be skeptical of those.

00:08:00.520 They could be false flags or disinformation.

00:08:03.760 That whole mercenary revolt, I still don't know what that is.

00:08:06.720 So, I was surprised when I saw this, though.

00:08:08.960 In fact, I had to dig for a bit to prove it.

00:08:12.880 I heard a rumor on TikTok, of all places, that Russia last year had overtaken mighty Germany to become the largest economy in Europe

00:08:24.160 and now the fifth largest in the whole world.

00:08:27.160 Come on.

00:08:28.600 I mean, I honestly did not believe it at first.

00:08:31.820 And if it were true, by the way, why hadn't I heard about it in the mainstream media?

00:08:36.220 I mean, it sounds like big news.

00:08:39.140 How could it be, though, given the sanctions against Russia and how close Russia was to toppling over

00:08:44.400 and how this war was burning up all their money?

00:08:47.140 It was close to imploding.

00:08:48.440 That's what the news, that's sort of the narrative of the news.

00:08:51.960 But I managed to find the source.

00:08:53.980 And it is nothing less reputable than the World Bank.

00:08:57.320 Take a look at the World Bank's 2021 rankings of countries by gross domestic product measured using the purchasing power parity method.

00:09:08.460 I'll use an example to explain what purchasing power parity means.

00:09:11.680 Let's say someone earns $200,000 a year in Toronto or Vancouver, but someone else earns $175,000 a year in Red Deer, Alberta.

00:09:24.020 Who's richer?

00:09:24.720 Well, the obvious answer is the people in Toronto and Vancouver, right?

00:09:29.860 They're making $200,000 a year, except that's just in nominal dollars.

00:09:33.620 But taxes are lower in Alberta, and the cost of housing is much lower in Alberta.

00:09:39.060 The cost of a lot of things is lower.

00:09:40.280 So on a purchasing power parity basis, the person making $175,000 a year in Alberta is wealthier in terms of what they can buy.

00:09:51.120 It's basically taking a basket of goods and services and comparing how affordable that same basket is in a bunch of different countries.

00:09:58.680 It's sort of like that Big Mac test.

00:10:00.880 Have you ever heard of that?

00:10:02.000 How much does a Big Mac cost in each country?

00:10:04.680 Sort of a measure of wealth and prices.

00:10:07.060 Anyways, that's what gross domestic product purchasing power parity means, in case you were wondering.

00:10:12.880 It's sort of a way of leveling different countries so you're comparing apples to apples.

00:10:18.780 So here's what the World Bank says.

00:10:20.640 This is from 2021, before Russia invaded Ukraine.

00:10:26.180 It had a GDP of just under $4.8 trillion using the purchasing power parity method.

00:10:33.820 It was right behind mighty Germany. 0.95

00:10:35.780 Do you see that?

00:10:36.600 Germany had a GDP of just over $4.8 trillion.

00:10:39.620 As you can see, the top countries were China, the U.S., India, and Japan.

00:10:45.780 Now, obviously, this is the whole country together.

00:10:48.640 So that's more than a billion Chinese people together are wealthier than the 330 million U.S. people.

00:10:57.300 Interesting.

00:10:57.920 India is about the same population as China, but it's only about as one-third as wealthy.

00:11:04.180 Lots of interesting stats in there, don't you think?

00:11:07.120 Very interesting.

00:11:07.700 And remember, this is all based on their ability to buy a car, a meal, a house, adjusted to purchasing power.

00:11:14.600 But still, let's compare apples with apples.

00:11:17.760 So let's use the exact same study, the exact same chart by the exact same World Bank a year later.

00:11:24.400 So we just looked at 2021.

00:11:26.420 Here's 2022.

00:11:29.240 China is still the wealthiest country in the world.

00:11:31.200 America is still number two.

00:11:32.240 In fact, China increased its lead over America a little bit.

00:11:35.420 India and Japan are next again.

00:11:37.880 But look at that.

00:11:39.680 Russia has overtaken Germany. 0.89

00:11:42.540 Not by a lot, but it's ahead now.

00:11:46.660 How?

00:11:47.220 How did that happen, given that the West, United States, UK, put sanctions on Russia?

00:11:55.400 Given that Russia is spending money on a brutal war, how did they get richer than Germany? 0.50

00:12:00.400 And how did we not hear about this?

00:12:02.260 Well, that last part is easy to answer, isn't it?

00:12:05.520 I think the first part is sort of easy to answer, too.

00:12:08.040 If you're allowed to think critically, Russia has valuable things.

00:12:11.340 Oil, natural gas, minerals, wheat.

00:12:15.040 Lots of things that people around the world need, no matter what.

00:12:17.480 China and India will import oil and gas and food from anyone.

00:12:21.700 They don't care about social license or carbon taxes.

00:12:25.920 I mean, the liberals in Canada lied to us, saying no one will buy our oil and gas if we

00:12:30.160 don't impose environmental policies like carbon taxes.

00:12:33.540 We need social license. 0.98

00:12:34.460 That's nonsense.

00:12:36.160 OPEC and Russia dominate world energy markets, and they couldn't be more abusive to both

00:12:41.640 the environment and the people, too.

00:12:42.820 No one cares.

00:12:43.460 China, we, North America buys oil from Saudi Arabia and Iran.

00:12:48.100 We used to buy from Iran.

00:12:49.240 China still buys from Iran.

00:12:50.440 So, yeah, Russia has things that people want and will pay for, things that we in Canada could

00:12:55.920 produce, but we're deliberately sabotaging.

00:12:58.200 We are shutting down oil and gas and fracking.

00:13:00.600 And they're going to shut down farming next. 0.98

00:13:04.420 Imagine doing that while Russia is producing and selling what people need and want. 0.68

00:13:08.480 We're cracking down on oil men and farmers.

00:13:10.700 I think this would come as shocking news.

00:13:14.300 Russia's increase in its economy.

00:13:16.420 To most people who are convinced that Russia is teetering on the edge of a collapse and it's

00:13:22.560 going to rise up and depose Putin at any moment now, I don't think so.

00:13:26.840 In fact, I think the economy in the West is worse.

00:13:30.480 Yes, we're richer than Russia per capita, sure, but they're growing their economy and

00:13:35.060 they just leaped ahead of Germany's industrial might.

00:13:37.720 And that's in part because Germany is so obsessed with foolishly expensive alternative energy.

00:13:44.040 Don't kid yourselves.

00:13:46.600 But this is contrary to Trudeau's narrative, isn't it?

00:13:49.840 It suggests that Trudeau's virtue signaling is just virtue signaling.

00:13:54.040 But look at this.

00:13:55.800 I want to show you a second factoid, a second data point.

00:14:00.060 It's from Sky News in the UK, which is actually a mainstream media source.

00:14:04.040 But I think that the UK mainstream media, because it's very competitive over there and it's not

00:14:08.060 yet colonized by the government in the same way, I think it's still miles ahead of our media

00:14:12.940 when it comes to balanced reporting.

00:14:15.160 This starts off about Niger or Niger, as they call it, as a country in Africa that just had

00:14:19.740 a coup.

00:14:20.400 But then it ends talking about Russia.

00:14:22.460 Now, this is three and a half minutes long, but I learned so much from this.

00:14:26.700 Can I play for you this video about Niger or Niger, as I know in the country, and listen

00:14:34.760 to what they say about the American senior diplomat dispatched from the Biden administration,

00:14:40.740 and listen to how they end and what they talk about Russia.

00:14:43.180 Take a look.

00:14:44.080 Victoria Nuland was a very senior American diplomat, deputy secretary of state, second only 0.94

00:14:49.640 to Tony Blinken.

00:14:50.380 She didn't get very far when she went into the capital of Niger.

00:14:55.780 She couldn't get to see the previous president, the democratic elected president, President

00:15:01.040 Mohammed Barzun.

00:15:02.200 He's under house arrest, it seems.

00:15:04.000 Nobody's seen him since the coup of last week.

00:15:06.380 And General Chiani, who's taken over, the militia junta, wouldn't even meet her.

00:15:09.820 She got to see some representatives of Chiani, but not him himself.

00:15:14.860 And so she made some blandishments and threats.

00:15:17.720 She offered something.

00:15:18.860 She said that American aid would be suspended, and there was 230 million of that.

00:15:23.460 They are not listening.

00:15:24.420 The fact is that the coup leaders really don't care what the outside world thinks at the moment.

00:15:29.160 They're not impressed by the Americans, the French, the United Nations, or the economic

00:15:34.000 community of West African states.

00:15:36.000 It's a very poor country.

00:15:38.380 Niger itself is a big place, very big country, but it's pretty poor.

00:15:43.040 It's 177th on the World Bank index of 196 in terms of wealth.

00:15:48.860 Most of it, 80% of it, is Sahara Desert.

00:15:51.460 And of course, with climate change, the Sahara Desert is expanding.

00:15:55.360 Most of the people live in the southwest, where the capital is, in Naimei.

00:15:59.780 About 25 million people, but they live on subsistence farming.

00:16:03.060 The only thing that Niger has really got is uranium, but uranium can be found in many

00:16:07.540 other parts of the world.

00:16:09.240 Meanwhile, Niger is surrounded by a very unstable region.

00:16:13.280 The whole of the Sahel area is now increasingly unstable.

00:16:16.620 There have been military coups in Guinea.

00:16:18.760 There has been a military coup in Mali, a military coup in Burkina Faso.

00:16:23.880 And those three countries are now offering support to the military coup leaders in Niger.

00:16:28.200 And the Malian and Burkina Faso delegations have arrived in Niger in order to offer their

00:16:34.100 support.

00:16:34.640 And so three military leaders, in particular, are just standing together and defying the

00:16:39.280 rest of the world to do whatever they can.

00:16:41.440 And the answer is they can't do very much.

00:16:43.220 The only countries that could make a difference militarily would be Nigeria, which has quite 0.97

00:16:47.200 a big military, but not a very good one these days.

00:16:49.320 Or Chad, which also has quite a large military.

00:16:52.340 Nigeria is pretty reluctant to get involved militarily.

00:16:54.960 And Chad has said it definitely won't.

00:16:57.180 And so ECOWAS, the Economic Community of West African States, will meet on Thursday to talk

00:17:01.800 about what to do next.

00:17:03.260 The answer is they won't be able to do very much physically.

00:17:05.960 They may well take some sanctions, but they will only hurt the population of Niger even

00:17:10.560 more.

00:17:11.560 In addition to all of that, we've seen in the developments of Niger recently, Russian flags

00:17:17.380 appearing.

00:17:17.820 This was a rally that was held on Sunday.

00:17:20.320 Suddenly there were lots of Russian flags.

00:17:21.620 That was a staged rally, but nevertheless, it was tapping into something which the Niger

00:17:27.140 leaders, I think, are on to, which is the French are very unpopular, the West is very 0.91

00:17:30.540 unpopular.

00:17:31.400 They're explicitly turning to Russia for help.

00:17:34.220 And Chiani, the leader of the military junta, has said he wants the help of Wagner mercenaries.

00:17:39.560 And the Wagner mercenaries have said, yes, they will help.

00:17:42.200 They tried to get into Niger yesterday.

00:17:44.920 They seem to have been slightly repulsed by al-Qaeda, of all people, but they certainly will 1.00

00:17:48.820 be arriving and they will help.

00:17:50.640 The point about the whole region is that there are power vacuums developing all across the

00:17:55.060 Sahel.

00:17:55.920 And when there are power vacuums, the only people who will gain from those vacuums will

00:17:59.240 be jihadists like al-Qaeda and Islamic State, who are very active in the region, and Russian

00:18:04.460 mercenaries like Wagner.

00:18:06.180 It's all very destabilizing and it doesn't look good for the future.

00:18:09.520 Victoria Nuland really is the big deputy boss of the U.S. foreign policy. 1.00

00:18:16.580 They won't even meet with her.

00:18:18.460 Imagine that.

00:18:19.000 She flies all the way to Niger, and they send, what, the intern to meet with her?

00:18:24.240 I think American prestige around the world is falling.

00:18:28.160 And that breaks my heart because I love America.

00:18:30.380 I think they're the most noble country in the world, really.

00:18:32.840 I think Trump riveted the world.

00:18:35.540 Everyone was watching.

00:18:36.520 He was a showman.

00:18:37.220 He was in command, and even when he was eccentric or even erratic, it redounded to his benefit.

00:18:43.900 What I mean by that is the world was sort of scared of him, if nothing less.

00:18:48.580 It was a form of respect.

00:18:50.600 Don't trifle with Trump.

00:18:51.700 You'll have no idea what he'll do to you.

00:18:53.780 It's different with sleepy Grandpa Joe Biden and certainly his deputy deputy.

00:18:59.520 No one even cares to meet with her, and certainly not wagging their finger at Niger and Niger, 0.96

00:19:04.700 whose coups seem to be rooted in part in shucking off Western influence in the name of anti-colonialism.

00:19:11.840 They're mad at France, but they're mad at all the West. 0.98

00:19:14.580 I'm not sure that Joe Biden has any place in Niger.

00:19:16.980 But the Russian flag at the end, that's an interesting statement of allegiance, isn't it?

00:19:25.700 I don't like authoritarian rulers.

00:19:27.500 Not in Russia.

00:19:28.480 Not in Niger.

00:19:29.980 Not in Ukraine.

00:19:31.060 And certainly not in America or Canada.

00:19:32.660 And yeah, by the way, Joe Biden is acting like a banana republic boss,

00:19:37.580 trying to criminalize and jail Donald Trump, his rival and former president.

00:19:43.120 And yes, Trudeau acted like a banana republic authoritarian, too,

00:19:47.380 when he put our whole country under martial law and started seizing big accounts.

00:19:50.840 Maybe Niger sees that and says it'll join the other team,

00:19:57.320 one that's getting economically stronger, China and Russia,

00:20:00.920 and maybe militarily stronger, too.

00:20:04.020 What do you think?

00:20:05.860 Stay with us for more.

00:20:06.900 Well, this just in, folks.

00:20:17.060 It seems that Beijing-controlled media in Canada was used to enable election interference.

00:20:24.920 Now, I know that sounds preposterous and outrageous,

00:20:28.640 until you consider the fact that there are or were Chinese police stations

00:20:34.080 operating in our Great Dominion.

00:20:36.180 And so, if there is unofficial Chinese law enforcement occurring here,

00:20:41.860 then, hey, why not Beijing-orchestrated propaganda ploys, too?

00:20:47.840 Incredible.

00:20:49.220 And joining me now for more information on this story is Rebel News contributor,

00:20:55.140 Andy Lee.

00:20:55.900 Hey, Andy.

00:20:56.600 Welcome to the Ezra Levin Show.

00:20:59.000 Hi.

00:20:59.480 Thanks for having me.

00:21:00.600 Well, thank you for joining me.

00:21:02.020 Wow.

00:21:02.660 You know, I remember back in the 80s, I used to listen to a band from England called China Crisis.

00:21:09.080 But China Crisis is more than a title for an English new wave band.

00:21:15.660 It's what's happening right now in Canada would appear.

00:21:18.700 And it seems to be getting worse and worse.

00:21:21.500 Andy, what is this latest affront all about in the first place?

00:21:27.400 Yeah, I don't know if it's getting worse and worse, more that it's coming to the forefront.

00:21:34.400 I think it's been going on for a very long time.

00:21:37.460 So, yeah.

00:21:38.000 So, Sam Cooper has, you know, received some more CSIS documents, leaked some CSIS documents

00:21:43.400 that outline that there is a, you know, a campaign, a probation campaign.

00:21:48.280 It's apparently massively funded.

00:21:50.520 This isn't entirely surprising.

00:21:52.660 And we've done some work and some original reporting on some of those media outlets that

00:21:56.900 are tied to the Chinese Communist Party and the United Front Work Department.

00:22:00.940 So, we did put out an article, and I'm going to put out more on one establishment that's

00:22:05.040 called Red Maple News.

00:22:07.320 The president of Red Maple News also works for Russia Today.

00:22:12.720 She goes overseas.

00:22:14.360 She goes to the political conferences for the United Front Work Department.

00:22:17.520 And she also volunteers for Justin Trudeau and has got some, you know, personal, some

00:22:23.060 personal invite to Parliament Hill from Justin Trudeau.

00:22:28.060 So, but I mean, this isn't, again, it's not shocking.

00:22:30.700 There's a lot of these media outlets.

00:22:32.720 Mostly they operate in foreign language media.

00:22:34.960 They go a little bit under the radar.

00:22:36.820 Behind the scenes, they work with Jinhua and China News Service and things like that.

00:22:44.420 Now, these are entities, of course, that are considered foreign missions in the United States.

00:22:50.320 These are the kinds of establishments that definitely, in one instance, this particular

00:22:56.320 volunteer for the Liberal Party who met with Justin Trudeau, she did go to Parliament Hill

00:23:02.020 and then she went and reported that back to China News Service.

00:23:05.680 So she's obviously working for foreign missions.

00:23:09.080 So these are the kind of people who could be subjected to a foreign agent registry if we

00:23:13.480 ever get that piece of legislation in place.

00:23:16.160 So we've been doing work on that.

00:23:18.280 But Sam Cooper's documents outlined something a little bit new.

00:23:23.220 And that was that mainstream media has also been targeted in what he called a massively

00:23:30.100 funded foreign influence campaign.

00:23:32.620 So that was a bit of a bombshell revelation.

00:23:35.040 And again, not surprising that we've got, you know, Chinese-based news outlets.

00:23:40.460 And this volunteer who works for Trudeau, she does have an office in China.

00:23:45.240 And so, you know, she is partly based out of China.

00:23:48.440 So not entirely shocking that she would be cozying up to political leaders and trying

00:23:54.000 to push some pro-Beijing messaging and things like that.

00:23:57.280 And, you know, doing some work for the United Front.

00:24:00.160 Not shocking, but a little bit shocking to find it in our domestic stations right here at

00:24:05.460 home.

00:24:06.220 It's just incredible.

00:24:07.780 First of all, I won't even get into the abhorrent conflict of interest here with this

00:24:13.520 individual.

00:24:14.180 But, you know, I think it's all making sense, Andy.

00:24:18.260 Some 10 years ago, Blackface said at a meeting with exclusively women in Toronto that he had

00:24:26.180 admiration in his heart for the basic dictatorship of China in terms of getting things done. 0.65

00:24:32.040 I mean, the idea that a future Western leader would have admiration for the tyranny of China.

00:24:40.200 Trudeau's meeting last week with a group of Toronto women was an example.

00:24:46.960 Even with Sun TV watching for any slip, he was asked which country he most admired and referred to China.

00:24:53.580 There's a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is

00:25:04.220 allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, we need to go green

00:25:09.140 as fast as we need to start, you know, investing in solar.

00:25:12.060 I mean, there is a flexibility that I know Stephen Harper must dream about of having a

00:25:16.440 dictatorship that he could do everything he wanted that I find quite interesting.

00:25:21.280 It's astonishing in and of itself.

00:25:23.700 But when it comes to getting things done, you have to wonder, what did he mean by getting

00:25:27.920 things done?

00:25:28.620 Like, you know, electoral interference that's going to benefit blackface in the long run? 1.00

00:25:35.100 Is that what he was talking about?

00:25:36.840 And I guess that's my question.

00:25:39.200 All this tinkering and meandering, as far as you can tell, Andy, has it been effective

00:25:45.460 for the Liberals?

00:25:49.880 It's very, very difficult to gauge.

00:25:53.420 We know that interference happens.

00:25:55.980 They say that it wasn't enough to affect the election results.

00:25:59.720 I think it's very, very hard to gauge again, because there is, you know, a lot of these

00:26:05.360 electoral and campaigns and things like that that are pushed by people who might have ties

00:26:12.200 to the Chinese Communist Party or ties to the United Front.

00:26:15.780 And when I say that, I mean that this isn't under dispute.

00:26:19.080 Some of them have got personal invitations that I've seen from Xi Jinping inviting them

00:26:23.880 to meetings overseas like this.

00:26:25.940 So this isn't in dispute that they have dual loyalties if they're not outright here working

00:26:31.860 for China.

00:26:32.840 So a lot of them run hometown associations.

00:26:35.240 We know that they stem from some main ones and then they branch off.

00:26:38.720 And there's there's hundreds of these.

00:26:40.700 I mean, they consist of tens of thousands of members who are probably sympathetic to those

00:26:46.960 causes.

00:26:47.380 I'm not going to say that every tonight's community association is a united front operation.

00:26:52.540 That's not the case at all.

00:26:53.980 And a lot of them literally do good work in the community.

00:26:57.080 And that's how they sort of get away with this is they fall into this gray zone where

00:27:01.360 maybe they're not outright committing something that might be criminal in our country yet,

00:27:07.680 unless we get some sort of stronger legislation.

00:27:10.160 But they do definitely have some underlying motivation and some, you know, some loyalty to

00:27:16.860 the Chinese Communist Party.

00:27:18.020 So we know that that's how many members, tens of thousands.

00:27:23.980 Does it benefit the Liberals?

00:27:25.260 They usually throw their weight behind the Liberals.

00:27:28.700 Not always, though.

00:27:30.660 I mean, they're chameleons.

00:27:32.740 They'll fall behind whoever they think is supportive of their cause.

00:27:37.340 And one of them that they threw their weight, of course, behind was Mr. Key.

00:27:42.560 Right.

00:27:43.380 So he was a PC MPP.

00:27:47.340 And so a lot of these community associations have thrown their weight behind them.

00:27:51.920 They also throw them behind Conservative Senator Royo.

00:27:55.320 So, you know, they'll throw their weight behind who they think will, you know, fulfill whatever

00:28:00.440 their needs are, which are usually to get more sympathetic views towards China.

00:28:05.780 So that's what we're dealing with.

00:28:07.760 And we also got a little bit of a taste of what they can do during the recent protest against

00:28:14.580 a foreign agent registry.

00:28:16.600 So this was, you know, it was an event, a demonstration that was planned on Parliament Hill on June 24th.

00:28:23.060 It was done in commemoration, apparently, of the Chinese Exclusion Act, the 100th anniversary

00:28:32.380 of the Chinese Exclusion Act.

00:28:33.780 So it was sort of used as a front, this celebration, to also say that we should reject all modern

00:28:42.360 day forms of exclusion.

00:28:44.800 And what they mean when they say that is that we should reject a foreign agent registry.

00:28:49.220 And, of course, a foreign agent registry would apply to a lot of these people.

00:28:53.100 So they put out calls.

00:28:54.880 They managed to get buses.

00:28:57.060 They were funded by community associations.

00:28:58.820 And they got a number of a couple of thousand people.

00:29:01.060 So that gives you an idea of how quickly and how many people they're able to mobilize.

00:29:06.500 Is it enough to sway an election?

00:29:08.520 Hard to say.

00:29:09.380 Is it enough to sway a rioting or two?

00:29:11.220 I think certainly.

00:29:12.940 And I've got no doubt.

00:29:13.880 So when you look at the campaign against Aaron O'Toole, and I have looked into that network

00:29:19.320 a little bit and found some foreign media outlets that were picking up on negative WeChat

00:29:23.720 posts against Aaron and amplifying those messages.

00:29:27.500 And Aaron, by most means, was a moderate conservative leader.

00:29:32.120 I wouldn't say he was a hardliner or that anybody would expect him to take a particularly

00:29:36.580 hard line on China.

00:29:38.020 And we know that Pierre has the potential to be a much maybe firmer leader, I would say,

00:29:44.940 and a lot more aggressive in his foreign policy and things like that.

00:29:48.160 So when you look at the attack campaign that went up against Aaron O'Toole, and that's not

00:29:52.440 again, that's not speculative.

00:29:53.520 That was confirmed by CSIS that this happened.

00:29:56.160 And Aaron was briefed on it.

00:29:57.460 I think we can expect a much stronger reaction against Pierre.

00:30:01.300 And I can expect it to be in the tens of thousands.

00:30:04.140 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:30:04.860 I mean, geez, what a waste of effort having a campaign against Aaron O'Toole, given how

00:30:11.740 weak he was in the 2021 campaign.

00:30:15.140 It reminds me of the knock against the Los Angeles Police Department in that the in the

00:30:21.740 case against OJ Simpson, the LAPD framed a guilty man.

00:30:25.780 But anyway, enough about yesterday's man, Aaron O'Toole.

00:30:30.120 Well, you mentioned we don't have a foreign agent registry.

00:30:35.940 Andy, that seems to be a no brainer to me.

00:30:39.040 Other nations have this.

00:30:40.560 Why don't we have it?

00:30:43.600 That's a good question.

00:30:44.740 Why don't we have it?

00:30:45.900 The last one who tried the last person who tried to introduce one, of course, was was

00:30:51.000 Mr. Kenny Chu, and he was a conservative MP, and he ended up becoming a victim of a WeChat

00:30:58.320 disinformation campaign himself and ended up being unseated in the federal election,

00:31:05.220 unfortunately.

00:31:06.160 And that piece of legislation that he had introduced died with him.

00:31:10.080 Now, that's not a coincidence that they happened to go after him so vehemently.

00:31:13.540 And again, you have to understand a foreign agent registry, it is it's a piece of common

00:31:17.360 sense legislation, and it doesn't necessarily say that these activities are legal.

00:31:23.920 What it says is that if you take the case of, say, Justin Trudeau's liberal volunteer,

00:31:31.600 you know, if you want to apply it to her.

00:31:33.600 Well, yes.

00:31:34.000 If she is reporting on behalf of foreign missions like China News and China News Service, and

00:31:40.660 if she's going overseas and, you know, meeting with the United Front, meeting with Xi Jinping

00:31:45.560 and not just meeting with him, she actually gives speeches in the Great Hall and direction

00:31:51.040 and things like that.

00:31:52.240 So she's, you know, got very, very deep ties to the regime.

00:31:56.040 What it says is that you need to register and let us know what you're doing, if you're

00:32:01.080 getting money from the government, how you're interacting with them, give us your disbursements.

00:32:05.700 It's not saying that it's illegal.

00:32:08.640 It's saying you have to, you know, be upfront about those activities.

00:32:13.940 And if you're lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, it doesn't mean it has to be the

00:32:17.260 Chinese government.

00:32:18.400 You have to let us know.

00:32:19.620 And if you don't let us know, and if we catch you doing it, then we'll subject you to

00:32:23.580 FARAH.

00:32:23.920 And this is how, of course, New York was able to nail the people who were running their overseas

00:32:31.160 Chinese police stations as they used to FARAH against them, which is something that we don't

00:32:36.040 have.

00:32:37.220 Yeah.

00:32:37.660 No, all we're asking for is transparency.

00:32:39.960 And when it comes to all this Chinese interference, Andy, I mean, we have a brand new mayor in Toronto,

00:32:47.520 Olivia Chow.

00:32:48.300 And I believe it was the National Post and very few others that reported that she was

00:32:53.960 at a, I guess, at an organization that was pro-Beijing government, received a gift from

00:33:00.780 them.

00:33:01.500 And it was astonishing because to her credit, Ms. Chow, once upon a time, was going to bat

00:33:06.680 for the rights of the people in Hong Kong.

00:33:09.040 But I guess if there's an election on the line, sorry, guys, it's strictly business.

00:33:14.320 And if this can generate more votes, so be it.

00:33:19.700 You know, Andy, we're running out of time here.

00:33:22.680 But what I want to, first of all, my take on this, I think in the big picture, there is

00:33:30.980 a tragedy afoot here because we don't have great turnouts at election time in the best

00:33:38.240 of times, but I'm worried that people hear about all this election interference and it's

00:33:45.240 like they think, oh, you know what, as they say in Vegas, the fix is in, it's all predetermined.

00:33:52.020 What does it matter if I even come out?

00:33:55.440 It's a predestined fate.

00:33:57.400 So I'm just wondering if you think, as I do, this might lead to so much voter frustration

00:34:04.020 that they won't show up at the ballot box on Election Day.

00:34:09.000 And finally, if you had the ear of the authorities in terms of doing something to prevent this

00:34:16.820 or to be at least transparent, what would the Andy Lee plan be?

00:34:22.020 Yeah, well, that's, I mean, that is the frustrating part about all of this is it is undermining

00:34:29.080 voter confidence and the integrity of our democratic processes and our election systems.

00:34:34.560 And, you know, our national security advisors have tried to assuage some of those fears and

00:34:40.000 things like that and say that our elections were secure.

00:34:44.240 And like I said, I don't believe that even if some writings were maybe overcome through

00:34:49.640 some kind of dissolution campaigns, it would make a difference in the last election.

00:34:53.580 That being said, it could make an election.

00:34:56.780 So it's not supposed to be discounted or taken lightly or dismissed any longer because new

00:35:03.060 groups up every day, right?

00:35:05.020 When I see there's hundreds, I mean, like there's new ones coming up every day.

00:35:08.540 A new one was just launched in Vancouver.

00:35:10.140 And a lot of times they do have pro-Beijing messaging and they'll find councillors or provincial

00:35:17.140 MPs or mayors or federal candidates and they'll throw their weight behind them.

00:35:22.540 So, you know, I think the first thing to do is get some more of this information out there

00:35:29.500 in the form of a transparent public inquiry.

00:35:33.360 I've always been a big proponent of that.

00:35:35.420 I think that even if we can't see the information and some of it will be classified, it will shine

00:35:44.580 a little bit more light and it will also restore public confidence in the process, which is

00:35:51.160 very, very important.

00:35:52.180 We have to be confident in our democracy.

00:35:56.100 So I think that that's part of it and to do it in a nonpartisan way.

00:36:00.060 And unfortunately, the last choice I felt for the special rapporteur was a poor one.

00:36:07.420 And he obviously had a long history with Justin Trudeau and China.

00:36:12.280 And when pulled in front of committee, it was acknowledged that he had not seen all the

00:36:17.680 information.

00:36:18.900 And he had put out some conflicting information in his report that contradicted what CSIS told

00:36:24.240 Aaron O'Toole.

00:36:25.060 Also contradicted some of these leaked CSIS briefings, which brings, you know, the point

00:36:30.800 of did he see the CSIS briefings?

00:36:32.900 Were they presented to him?

00:36:34.160 Were they not presented to him at all?

00:36:36.580 So that's part of it.

00:36:39.100 And then part of it is that we need a FARA.

00:36:41.580 We need a Foreign Agent Registration Act.

00:36:43.640 Like, if we had one, that would have cut so much off right before it started.

00:36:52.920 Because they're not going to bother if they know that they're openly conducting activities.

00:36:57.680 They're not going to be risk going through what the fellows in New York went through,

00:37:02.280 right?

00:37:02.940 We know who's running these so-called overseas police stations.

00:37:06.780 And there's been no action on them.

00:37:08.520 But they certainly could have been subjected to more serious action if we had a FARA type

00:37:14.120 piece of legislation in place.

00:37:16.000 So that's part of it.

00:37:16.920 And also, politicians need to stop engaging with these news outlets.

00:37:21.940 I'm not the first person to figure out that most of these foreign media outlets are just 0.94

00:37:27.680 covers or satellite stations for state TV sources, right?

00:37:32.160 I refuse to believe that.

00:37:33.900 I refuse to believe that CSIS didn't know it.

00:37:36.200 Of course they know it.

00:37:37.020 Of course, these briefings have passed through the PMO and, you know, have come to somebody's

00:37:43.600 attention.

00:37:44.220 But they continue to engage with them, you know, and they understand that, you know, these

00:37:53.520 are news outlets that in other countries are designated foreign agents of the Chinese government.

00:38:00.520 So I think that we can expect them to quell their activities a little bit and cool their

00:38:05.720 heels in that regard.

00:38:06.740 Or I'd like to see that anyways from our politicians being a little bit more responsible.

00:38:11.380 Olivia Chow is a great example, actually. 0.93

00:38:14.220 And I don't know.

00:38:15.600 Olivia Chow is not a Chinese agent.

00:38:18.120 She's not.

00:38:19.440 I don't believe that for a minute.

00:38:21.040 I actually believe that she's firmly pro-democracy.

00:38:23.840 I believe that in my heart.

00:38:26.420 I don't think that she's working for the Chinese state, but she's a great example in how she 0.95

00:38:30.580 had no qualms at election time of tapping this association, this association, which is

00:38:37.340 known pro-Beijing.

00:38:39.420 The people who run it are not everyday Canadian citizens.

00:38:42.900 These are the sort of people who go overseas, get invited to political conferences, and go

00:38:47.360 and meet with Xi Jinping.

00:38:48.320 Okay, so this is not your standard behavior for a Canadian citizen when you're invited

00:38:53.120 overseas to go meet the supreme leader of China.

00:38:56.000 We have to know exactly what's going on there.

00:38:59.200 So Olivia, a great example of somebody who got caught up tapping these networks.

00:39:03.660 And when she got caught, she was very, very sorry.

00:39:05.600 She actually put out an apology video, but it's too bad.

00:39:08.360 She put it out only in Cantonese.

00:39:10.420 I had it translated.

00:39:12.940 I actually asked her, I want to reach out to her and ask her if she could read it in English.

00:39:17.700 But this is what people say, and some of the articles and her supporters say, well, this

00:39:21.960 is a necessary evil for politicians to tap these networks, to win that support.

00:39:28.000 Well, why is this a necessary evil to support a group that you know is pro-Beijing and maybe

00:39:34.180 goes against your own moral beliefs?

00:39:36.520 As I believe that it shouldn't be a necessary evil in a democratic country, right?

00:39:41.540 They shouldn't be winning an election.

00:39:43.680 You shouldn't need to tap that network to feel confident that you're going to be able

00:39:47.760 to get that vote.

00:39:49.140 And a lot of the stuff that I go through is done with Chinese Canadians who are pro-democracy.

00:39:55.300 And, you know, we go through this stuff and they're appalled to see their leaders,

00:39:58.980 you know, using these, you know, these United Front organizations and things like that to win

00:40:04.560 elections.

00:40:05.140 It's very, very disappointing.

00:40:06.460 Well, Andy, I got to tell you, in the here and now, in the short term, at least, I remain

00:40:12.700 very pessimistic that blackface is going to do anything tangible because I personally

00:40:18.580 think the primary beneficiary of Chinese interference is indeed the blackface liberals. 0.96

00:40:26.020 And so I think we might need regime change here in Canada before we get any traction on this

00:40:33.480 file.

00:40:33.700 But it was a wonderful piece you authored.

00:40:35.980 I look forward to your follow-ups.

00:40:38.140 And let's keep an eye on this.

00:40:40.280 So thank you very much, Andy Lee, for joining me today.

00:40:44.000 Yeah.

00:40:44.400 Thanks for having me.

00:40:45.060 Anytime, Dave.

00:40:45.960 Got it.

00:40:56.940 Special thanks to my friend David Menzies for doing the guest segment.

00:40:59.960 Hey, let me just leave with you with a final thought on Ukraine.

00:41:03.800 I, like I say, I stumbled across that statistic about its economy growing.

00:41:08.020 And I was very skeptical.

00:41:09.660 I didn't retweet it or anything until I chased down the original source, the World Bank.

00:41:16.600 And I mentioned that to another senior journalist I bumped into in town, very senior at a very

00:41:22.340 large publication.

00:41:23.200 I won't say who.

00:41:24.280 He didn't believe it.

00:41:25.600 He was stunned.

00:41:26.900 He said, no, no, their economy's in a shambles, he said.

00:41:30.060 And this is a smart dude.

00:41:33.340 I think it's because we have been told only one side of the story.

00:41:37.360 I, by the way, I later sent him the documents and I had a bit of a back and forth with him.

00:41:41.900 But my point is, there's a smart guy in the media, skeptical guy, often a contrarian.

00:41:48.520 And he was certain that Russia was just on the brink of collapsing and that, of course,

00:41:54.200 their economy was dashed.

00:41:55.360 And, of course, it's absurd to think that Russia could even exceed Germany. 0.67

00:41:59.360 Germany has been an industrial heartland for 100 years.

00:42:02.680 And it was incredible to watch him realize that he, everything he thought he knew was wrong

00:42:09.940 if these World Bank figures are correct, and I'm quite sure that they are.

00:42:14.220 And to watch him sort of recalculate a disillusionment there, because I think that so many people,

00:42:21.200 and this guy is not a bad guy in any way, he's not an ideologue.

00:42:24.040 And to see him say, oh, so that's the truth?

00:42:28.880 I could see other questions in his mind, like, oh, so maybe victory isn't just around the corner.

00:42:34.120 And maybe, maybe a diplomatic solution might be something we should even consider.

00:42:40.060 And maybe when we say we're going to stick with this war till the end, 0.66

00:42:44.400 what does that mean when your enemy is actually getting stronger?

00:42:49.680 I think we need a lot more truth about Ukraine.

00:42:52.420 And I think we need to do what's best for the Ukrainian people.

00:42:56.160 Obviously, our interest as Canadians is to do what's best for us.

00:42:59.240 But if we're going to meddle overseas, and it looks like we are,

00:43:02.540 what's actually the best thing for Ukrainian men and women?

00:43:07.060 Is it to continue to send them in as cannon fodder to be chewed up by Putin's military?

00:43:12.840 I just can't think that doing the same thing for another 18 months is the way.

00:43:17.560 You tell me.

00:43:18.280 You tell me if wanting peace, if you can want peace without being a Putin shill. 0.82

00:43:24.840 In fact, isn't peace something you only make with your enemies?

00:43:28.420 I don't think you make peace with your friends.

00:43:29.860 You're already at peace with them.

00:43:31.300 It's a tricky one.

00:43:32.200 But watching my counterpart at another media company see the scales fall off his eyes was quite something.

00:43:39.380 That's our show for today.

00:43:41.020 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night.

00:43:44.860 And keep fighting for freedom.

00:43:46.720 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - August 09, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Russian economy surpasses Germany to become the largest in Europe — How is it possible？

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