Sam Cooper is Canada s leading journalist on the infiltration of Canadian society by foreign interests, in particular Iran and the Chinese Communist Party. In this episode, he talks with Ezra Levenrant about China's infiltration of Mark Carney's government.
00:00:00.080Tonight, a talk with Sam Cooper about China's infiltration of Mark Carney's government.
00:00:06.080It's April 3rd, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
00:00:11.420Oh, hi, everybody, and happy Good Friday to you.
00:00:26.040Today, a special long-form interview with Sam Cooper.
00:00:28.840I think he's Canada's leading journalist on the infiltration of Canadian society by foreign interests, in particular Iran, and in today's case, the Chinese Communist Party.
00:00:41.540So sit back and enjoy a conversation with Canada's leading investigative journalist on this file.
00:00:49.400What consequences, if any, will Michael Ma face for his dismissal of forced labor in China?
00:01:45.240How is the public supposed to believe that statement? Is that all genuine?
00:01:48.720And are you still attending the fundraiser with him this evening?
00:01:51.520Two things. First is Mr. Ma has apologized for his comments and directly and unequivocally recognized the seriousness of the issue, continues to be a member of our caucus, and I'll continue to work with him, including in the issue that you referenced in the second part of your question.
00:02:15.480This is a government event, though, so I don't want to speak about party-specific things around fundraising.
00:02:20.500Interference in our elections by the Chinese Communist Party has been happening for years.
00:02:48.540It wasn't just things like, oh, bussing in foreign nationals to vote in a Liberal Party nomination.
00:02:55.720It was threats, you might recall, in the Greater Toronto area.
00:02:58.800There was an actual threat by the Liberal candidate.
00:03:03.640There was a bounty on his Conservative Party opponent.
00:03:07.660And again, this isn't really about Liberal or Conservative.
00:03:09.740It's about the Chinese Communist Party wanting to have pro-Chinese assets in Canada.
00:03:15.720And frankly, Mark Carney looking the other way.
00:03:17.940Well, this accelerated recently when a conservative candidate who ran in the last election under the conservative banner, which includes a bundle of policy ideas like being skeptical and critical of human rights violations in China, Michael Moore defected to Mark Carney's liberals and was rewarded immediately thereafter by traveling with Mark Carney to China and being prominently featured.
00:03:44.420This would have been an amazing feeling of importance and satisfaction for Michael Ma.
00:03:50.000At that trip, you might recall, Mark Carney announced Canada's pivot towards China and a new world order.
00:03:57.640But just a few days ago, Michael Ma was in Parliamentary Committee, and he was asking questions of an NGO that was ringing the alarm about child labor in China, which is actually not a rare thing.
00:04:12.860And Michael Ma just couldn't help himself.
00:07:44.320Tell me what Canadians should know about Michael Ma and this incident, which we've sort of shown in several parts.
00:07:54.180The incident is shocking, and I think the value of it is all Canadians can see there's something very wrong happening there.
00:08:01.320But Ezra, I've done a lot of reporting at the Bureau.News on the context leading up to that event.
00:08:07.740Michael Ma comes from a rioting which was subject to deep interference from China in recent elections.
00:08:14.320It would be hard to explain how much was going on there.
00:08:17.600But something I've added to the body of reporting is that Michael Ma was part of a body called the Chinese Canadian Conservative Association.
00:08:29.820This is, according to the Jamestown Foundation, a highly respected American think tank, one of 575 entities connected to Beijing's foreign interference arm, which is called the United Front Work Department.
00:08:44.000So, Ezra, the context of Michael Ma being listed as a director of that association is very telling when we look at that video, which I'll explain in a minute.
00:08:54.620But that association of which Ma was a director has attacked the past two conservative leaders, Pierre Paliève and Erno Toole, for being anti-China, supposedly.
00:09:05.920So what I'm suggesting is Michael Ma was already part of a group that a well-known think tank connects to Beijing's foreign interference, comes from a rioting deeply impacted by foreign interference.
00:09:18.560We're not aware of any illegal activities from Mr. Ma, but I see him repeatedly in meetings with people in Markham, Ontario, which I assert are known to CSIS and the RCMP as alleged Chinese agents.
00:09:33.140So this looks suspicious. And then we have this clip where he's acting. Essentially, it looks like he's defense counsel for the government of China saying nothing to see here. Whereas you say, Ezra, all decent people can read the reports from Human Rights Watch and other entities that say there is forced labor and it will make it into our electric vehicle supply.
00:09:54.380So he's attacking the credibility of a well-known Canadian witness. He's acting, it seems like, a defender of China. And Ezra, I looked at the Chinese state media the day after. They were not only amplifying and celebrating Michael Ma's performance, but they pulled out of their dossier on the Canadian witness, Margaret McQuaig Johnston, saying she had been a friend of China, a researcher in years past.
00:10:20.620Now she was, quote, an anti-China pawn. They attacked her. And this makes me think, look, was Michael Ma in any way adding propaganda to help Beijing? Could there even have been behind the scenes arrangements? These are questions that I think need to be answered. And I believe they're being studied by CSIS. I have to believe that.
00:10:42.240Well, I sure hope so. You know, we know that some of the different political activists, including MPs, have met with the Chinese consulate, which, you know, it just, I'm guessing they're a little more careful now.
00:10:55.980I used to know a senior RCMP officer who was in charge of the Russian embassy. And one of the things they did is document every single person going in and coming out of the embassy.
00:11:08.380And I've got to hope that they have a list of liberal or conservative MPs and senators who are going in and out, although these days, who knows, maybe it's just being done by some encrypted app.
00:11:19.940Now, I want to come back to something.
00:11:21.000I know there was a little detail you said that I just heard for a second, and then you moved on.
00:11:25.700The name of this Chinese-influenced group in which Michael Ma is a director, that's the conservative business?
00:11:40.100The Chinese Conservative Association of Canada.
00:11:42.940So let me just ask you, is that entire organization's purpose set up to enter into the conservative side, if it's got the word conservative in it, was the whole purpose to get pro-CCP, pro-Chinese Communist Party people in the conservatives, not just in the liberals? Is that why it's called conservative or is there another reason it's called conservative?
00:12:06.560In a nutshell, that's the answer. At the Jamestown Foundation, people can go to that entity and read their deep report. They can go to the bureau where I have unpacked it. And how they explain it, Ezra, is the United Front Work Department is working, of course, for the Chinese Communist Party. But they want to have representatives that can pressure foreign democratic governments, no matter which party is in power.
00:12:31.820Wow. So they are covering both. I mean, very smart, long-term strategy. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Of course, Justin Trudeau and Mark, you know, New World Order liberals are pro-Beijing, but they want to have people on the conservative side too, obviously, is what you're saying.
00:12:51.000That's a little bit shocking to me, but it makes complete sense. Do we know if the Conservative Party has adjusted their stance towards this group? Because if it is where the Michael Maas of the world are coming from, have they sort of put up a wall to keep out people from this pressure group?
00:13:10.740That's a great question, Ezra. Let me explain it by saying people can go to the National Post, they can go to the Bureau and read about the activities of this Chinese Conservative Canadian Association, and they can see after Aaron O'Toole lost the 2021 election, this very same association held a press conference in Markham and said that Aaron O'Toole should step down. He lost for being anti-China.
00:13:35.680as i've reported on the bureau they did the same pressure tactic on polyev after he lost so you can
00:13:42.340see how they're doing a pincher movement on the conservatives for being critical of china and
00:13:47.260that's the whole story china does not like critics in foreign governments right you know there's a
00:13:52.120word for this i think entryism entryism where they just sort of walk right in and say oh i'm a
00:13:57.620conservative party activist and then it's almost like a sleeper cell now as you say we don't have
00:14:03.980evidence of criminality, but I agree with you. I'm sure CSIS and RCMP are on it. How much they're
00:14:09.460allowed to say publicly is partly a political question too, of course. Now, let me just
00:14:14.680mention one more thing in passing. There's this concert, a touring operatic concert that
00:14:23.060supporters of the Falun Gong participate in. Falun Gong is a Chinese spiritual movement.
00:14:29.860the chinese communists call it a cult and it's being banned in china because it's really not
00:14:34.900under the control of the communist party and one of the things they do is put on this beautiful opera
00:14:38.840in chinese language but it has some anti-ccp overtones i've been to their concert in toronto
00:14:44.500probably three times it's it's just artistic it's opera and singing and ballet and um
00:14:50.300this year and it's a very prominent event it's a black tie kind of event
00:14:55.520and it just has a subtle freedom message that's my take on it this year it was it was false alarms
00:15:04.320and fire alarms and the whole thing was canceled i mean we don't know who did it but it sure feels
00:15:09.520like the chinese government or some of their agents are interfering in the lives of falangong
00:15:15.040here in canada and this isn't the first time that they've done that i mean they target these
00:15:19.080falangong i've seen it with my own eyes do you know anything about the canceling of the shenyan
00:15:24.120concert this week? Ezra, you're absolutely right. This is not unique to Canada. Shen Yun concerts
00:15:31.460worldwide repeatedly get these types of bomb threats. And I know very credible observers
00:15:38.500that say it is Chinese communist, probably agents or people you could call self-motivated
00:15:45.140supporters of the motherland that call in these fake bomb threats around the world.
00:15:50.280So I do think it's highly likely that's what happened in Toronto. And we have known cases, Ezra, of critics of the Chinese Communist Party, for example, in Australia, being accused of calling in bomb threats to Chinese consulates.
00:16:06.900So people are trying to smear them with, you know, fake criminal activities.
00:16:11.660This is a well-known tactic of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:16:14.660And the fact that it happened shortly after this controversy around Michael Ma, you know, it just to me, it shows that Canadians need to understand.
00:16:23.440Wake up. Our freedoms are being attacked and they're being attacked in our own parliament.
00:16:29.580Sam, I know you got to go, but let me ask you one last question.
00:16:31.920I recently sat down with a U.S. ambassador and the topic of China came up a couple of times.
00:16:36.260he referred in particular to the 49,000 electric vehicles Mark Carney has agreed to import from
00:16:42.360China every year and he said categorically they're not going into the United States
00:16:45.960because he says they're like spying machines all the little cameras on it feeding that data back
00:16:51.160to to China have you heard anything from your contacts in CSIS or the RCMP because those I
00:16:59.160mean listen a Tesla is the same way a Tesla has a dozen cameras on it and it's really a data
00:17:03.860capture machine that's how the self-driving happens but these chinese-made evs i mean they
00:17:08.760really are spy mobiles um you know i know in some countries like israel you're not allowed to be a
00:17:16.180senior member of the military and have such a car you're not allowed to bring such a car in a
00:17:19.760military base because there's just a spying machine is there anyone in the canadian government
00:17:25.840that you know of who is worried about this because this ambassador was very frank here's a quick
00:17:30.880clip of it he said they ain't going into america i think it's those cars can come in from china
00:17:37.420come on come into canada they're not going to cross the border into the u.s you know china's
00:17:44.680imports brought to you through canada into the u.s chinese airports or imports uh you know that
00:17:51.780ain't going to happen okay uh the canadians are going to buy you know if anybody buys those cars
00:17:56.580it's going to be Canadians. And you guys will have to take a look at it. I'm rather a simple
00:18:05.040guy on some of this stuff. It's kind of like, okay, if you're buying 49,000 cars that are made
00:18:10.660in China, that means that you're probably not going to be buying 49,000 cars that were built
00:18:18.340in Ontario. Okay. That's a Canadian decision. 49,000 cars is not enough cars to build a factory.
00:18:31.160Again, I'm a marketing guy. I'm not an engineer. But my understanding in talking to
00:18:37.380folks in the auto industry that if you really want to build to scale a car plant, you know,
00:18:45.960where the efficiencies and all of that in you got to be at least at a quarter of a million cars
00:18:51.240okay you're not going to you're not going to build a factory for maybe the chinese will but
00:18:55.640you're not going to build a factory to build 49 000 cars um but those are those are decisions
00:19:01.880that canada has to make you know you had other factors in play um like uh you know exports of uh
00:19:09.720canola or canola that played into this and other tariffs so that you know but
00:19:16.800we're not gonna get involved in that but we know that we're not gonna open you
00:19:20.700know the we're not gonna open the floodgates to have Chinese cars coming
00:19:25.080into the US from Canada that ain't gonna happen and so you know security
00:19:31.840standpoint you know with the technology that they now have built into cars you
00:19:38.640You know, and I think the, you know, some insurance companies or some states are looking at, you know, when you go out and buy your license plates, it's going to be dependent on how many miles you drive per year.
00:19:51.120And that number is not going to be, you know, derived from a form that you fill out that says, oh, I drove 11,500 miles last year.
00:19:59.800it'll come from some data that they're getting that has tracked your car for the last year and
00:20:06.060they said yeah you said you drove 11 500 we're tracking it you drove 13 321 miles and here's
00:20:15.080exactly where you went uh and so uh you know i i would expect coming out of the intelligence world
00:20:23.480That car driving around from China, it's a great gobbler of data and information.
00:20:39.180It's consuming and getting information, and at times it will be sending information.
00:20:49.520Have you heard anything like that in Canada?
00:20:51.280that? Yeah, Ezra, I have heard from, you know, self-acknowledged former Canadian national security
00:20:58.360experts that say absolutely those are spy vehicles. In Poland, also another country, I believe that
00:21:04.780such vehicles are banned. And look at the state of modern warfare, Ezra, where foreign governments,
00:21:11.300and I'm talking about the good guys, so United States and Israel, can locate to a kill point
00:21:18.060where people live. So imagine China going around North America, capturing more information through
00:21:24.160spy vehicles about the nooks and corners where our leaders might be living. So absolutely,
00:21:30.780it's not only a spy vehicle concern, but it's a concern that Mark Carney could be burning up
00:21:36.880our trade agreement with the United States if he lets those spy vehicles made by Uyghur slave labor
00:21:44.620into our supply chain it's a it's a suicidal trade deal i believe yeah i just don't get why
00:21:50.680how that could possibly help the ontario auto industry sam great to see you always happy to
00:21:55.400have you join us folks if you're not following the bureau.news you're doing it wrong because
00:22:00.300you're going to get more of the other side of the story from sam than pretty much anywhere else
00:22:05.360you know and it's not just on china stuff which we care about but on iran and other uh bad actors
00:22:11.200in canada so i really encourage you to go to the bureau.news we're in the age of citizen journalism
00:22:17.220where an expert like sam on his own can do as much important work as a major outlet so i and
00:22:24.000we're always glad that you come on all the best you sam keep in touch and stay safe i'm sure that
00:22:28.500you're on a lot of uh hit lists too god forbid uh i you know stay safe i know keep your head on
00:22:35.420your swivel i know you you do you're very alert to these things because you're a thorn in the side
00:22:39.980to the bad guys. So thanks for being here. Thanks, Ezra. I'm staying safe and staying
00:22:44.060trained up. Right on. There he is, Sam Cooper.