Rebel News Podcast - April 04, 2026


EZRA LEVANT ｜ Sam Cooper exposes Liberal MP Michael Ma’s ties to Chinese influence network

Topics
forced labor in China forced labor in Shenzhen liberal party pivot to China Chinese interference in Canadian politics entryism spy vehicles
Mentioned
Michael Ma Mark Carney Sam Cooper Justin Trudeau Michael Moore Erin O'Toole Margaret McQuaid Johnson Pierre Poilievre Michael Lee Erno Toole Falun Gong Shen Yun McQuaig-Johnson Beijing
EZRA LEVANT ｜ Alberta cracks down on TFW abuse as youth unemployment climbs EZRA LEVANT ｜ Are Canadians even a little ungrateful to the United States？

Episode Stats


Length

22 minutes

Words per minute

160.91

Word count

3,668

Sentence count

184

Harmful content

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Sam Cooper is Canada s leading journalist on the infiltration of Canadian society by foreign interests, in particular Iran and the Chinese Communist Party. In this episode, he talks with Ezra Levenrant about China's infiltration of Mark Carney's government.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.080 Tonight, a talk with Sam Cooper about China's infiltration of Mark Carney's government.
00:00:06.080 It's April 3rd, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
00:00:11.420 Oh, hi, everybody, and happy Good Friday to you.
00:00:26.040 Today, a special long-form interview with Sam Cooper.
00:00:28.840 I think he's Canada's leading journalist on the infiltration of Canadian society by foreign interests, in particular Iran, and in today's case, the Chinese Communist Party.
00:00:41.540 So sit back and enjoy a conversation with Canada's leading investigative journalist on this file.
00:00:49.400 What consequences, if any, will Michael Ma face for his dismissal of forced labor in China?
00:00:55.360 Well, thanks for the question.
00:00:57.240 The first thing is that Mr. Ma has apologized for his comments, as he should have.
00:01:04.660 He's recognized the seriousness of the issue in that apology.
00:01:09.680 So the first is to recognize up front the seriousness of the issue.
00:01:13.360 He does. He's apologized. He apologized directly to Ms. McQuaig-Johnson as well,
00:01:19.920 but then more broadly about the issue, first of all.
00:01:22.180 Second is that, look, we take this issue of forced labour, child labour, incredibly seriously.
00:01:31.000 Canada has the most rigorous set of engagements on the issue.
00:01:37.900 Anyone who watched that clip in committee saw his scrum with CVC after, saw one version of his comments,
00:01:43.740 and then he released a statement.
00:01:45.240 How is the public supposed to believe that statement? Is that all genuine?
00:01:48.720 And are you still attending the fundraiser with him this evening?
00:01:51.520 Two things. First is Mr. Ma has apologized for his comments and directly and unequivocally recognized the seriousness of the issue, continues to be a member of our caucus, and I'll continue to work with him, including in the issue that you referenced in the second part of your question.
00:02:15.480 This is a government event, though, so I don't want to speak about party-specific things around fundraising.
00:02:20.500 Interference in our elections by the Chinese Communist Party has been happening for years.
00:02:24.800 CSIS has rung the alarm on it.
00:02:26.900 But because the interference seemed to support the incumbent liberal government, first under
00:02:32.560 Justin Trudeau and then again under Mark Carney, there never really was a disclosure
00:02:37.880 of all the facts, let alone anyone doing anything about it.
00:02:42.200 There were 11 electoral ridings that were initially named.
00:02:45.340 It wouldn't surprise me if there were more.
00:02:47.300 And it was very dramatic.
00:02:48.540 It wasn't just things like, oh, bussing in foreign nationals to vote in a Liberal Party nomination.
00:02:55.720 It was threats, you might recall, in the Greater Toronto area.
00:02:58.800 There was an actual threat by the Liberal candidate.
00:03:03.640 There was a bounty on his Conservative Party opponent.
00:03:07.660 And again, this isn't really about Liberal or Conservative.
00:03:09.740 It's about the Chinese Communist Party wanting to have pro-Chinese assets in Canada.
00:03:15.720 And frankly, Mark Carney looking the other way.
00:03:17.940 Well, this accelerated recently when a conservative candidate who ran in the last election under the conservative banner, which includes a bundle of policy ideas like being skeptical and critical of human rights violations in China, Michael Moore defected to Mark Carney's liberals and was rewarded immediately thereafter by traveling with Mark Carney to China and being prominently featured.
00:03:44.420 This would have been an amazing feeling of importance and satisfaction for Michael Ma.
00:03:50.000 At that trip, you might recall, Mark Carney announced Canada's pivot towards China and a new world order.
00:03:57.640 But just a few days ago, Michael Ma was in Parliamentary Committee, and he was asking questions of an NGO that was ringing the alarm about child labor in China, which is actually not a rare thing.
00:04:12.860 And Michael Ma just couldn't help himself.
00:04:15.260 He wanted to put on a good show.
00:04:16.800 I don't know.
00:04:17.260 Was it for Mark Carney or was it for Xi Jinping or for both?
00:04:19.840 Take a look at how he grilled this woman who was worried about child labor and denied it.
00:04:26.280 Take a look.
00:04:27.560 Do you have an advanced degree in technology and cybersecurity?
00:04:31.020 Yes or no?
00:04:32.120 No, but I have spent 37 years in that business.
00:04:37.000 I need to get short answers, please.
00:04:38.480 The other one is you belong to the China Strategic Risk Institute.
00:04:44.160 So does this institute specifically look for risk when it's in one?
00:04:48.320 Yes or no?
00:04:49.000 No.
00:04:50.460 So why is it a risk institute?
00:04:53.060 Because it analyzes risks that are obviously there.
00:04:58.200 Thank you.
00:04:58.860 So the last question then is you claim about forced labour in Xinjiang.
00:05:04.000 Have you witnessed this yourself?
00:05:05.880 Have you been there ever?
00:05:07.720 I've been to China many times.
00:05:10.040 Have you witnessed forced labor in Shenzhen?
00:05:13.040 Have you witnessed forced labor in Shenzhen?
00:05:14.960 That's just a short answer.
00:05:17.000 Have you witnessed forced labor in Shenzhen?
00:05:19.720 Yes or no?
00:05:22.600 I work closely with Human Rights Watch where researchers did witness it.
00:05:28.620 So thank you.
00:05:29.380 It's incredible.
00:05:30.360 He was browbeating the witness who said that she herself didn't put eyes on it,
00:05:34.400 but her staff did.
00:05:35.280 I think it is universally acknowledged that there is forced labor and child labor in China.
00:05:41.260 I actually don't think there's any credible observers who dispute that.
00:05:45.760 But Michael Ma clearly has other bosses in mind.
00:05:48.780 What was interesting, as I mentioned, is that Michael Ma is the new star in the Liberal Party.
00:05:53.580 And just the other day, there was a gala fundraiser featuring him and Mark Carney.
00:05:58.740 And many people wanted, where they were wondering, would Mark Carney actually show up, given that Michael Ma had revealed his true colors?
00:06:08.000 Well, the answer was yes, with high praise.
00:06:11.120 Take a look at Mark Carney praising Michael Ma, despite that display we just saw.
00:06:16.380 Take a look, or maybe because of it.
00:06:17.700 Take a look.
00:06:18.240 Michael joined our caucus in a room.
00:06:20.920 It was a little holiday party, but that's all it is, actually.
00:06:24.660 But he joined our caucus in December.
00:06:29.660 And he joined, as he said, he was guided by the values of building up others,
00:06:36.660 delivering results, he's a result-oriented individual,
00:06:40.660 and choosing a path that creates opportunities for Canadians.
00:06:44.660 These are fundamental liberal values, fundamental Canadian values,
00:06:48.660 and that's why Michael Law has found their home in our party.
00:06:52.660 And we've been so glad to welcome you and work with you.
00:06:57.780 Well, you can see that the Liberal Party is closing ranks.
00:07:00.860 I think part of it is they actually believe in their pivot towards China and the new world order.
00:07:06.760 And part of it is liberals never apologize and never explain.
00:07:10.180 Well, someone who does a lot of explaining and a lot of research is our guest today.
00:07:13.700 We've had him on many times, even though his time is so valuable.
00:07:16.880 I see him on so many shows as their resident expert on China.
00:07:20.620 We're so grateful that he makes time for us from time to time.
00:07:23.380 His name is Sam Cooper.
00:07:24.500 He's with thebureau.news.
00:07:26.500 In fact, he founded it himself.
00:07:28.160 And I think he's one of Canada's leading citizen journalists when it comes to foreign interference,
00:07:32.620 not just from the Chinese Communist Party, but from Iran and other hostile entities.
00:07:36.800 Sam, what a pleasure.
00:07:37.580 I'm always so cognizant of the fact that your time is limited.
00:07:41.400 So let's jump right in.
00:07:43.580 Welcome back.
00:07:44.320 Tell me what Canadians should know about Michael Ma and this incident, which we've sort of shown in several parts.
00:07:54.180 The incident is shocking, and I think the value of it is all Canadians can see there's something very wrong happening there.
00:08:01.320 But Ezra, I've done a lot of reporting at the Bureau.News on the context leading up to that event.
00:08:07.740 Michael Ma comes from a rioting which was subject to deep interference from China in recent elections.
00:08:14.320 It would be hard to explain how much was going on there.
00:08:17.600 But something I've added to the body of reporting is that Michael Ma was part of a body called the Chinese Canadian Conservative Association.
00:08:29.820 This is, according to the Jamestown Foundation, a highly respected American think tank, one of 575 entities connected to Beijing's foreign interference arm, which is called the United Front Work Department.
00:08:44.000 So, Ezra, the context of Michael Ma being listed as a director of that association is very telling when we look at that video, which I'll explain in a minute.
00:08:54.620 But that association of which Ma was a director has attacked the past two conservative leaders, Pierre Paliève and Erno Toole, for being anti-China, supposedly.
00:09:05.920 So what I'm suggesting is Michael Ma was already part of a group that a well-known think tank connects to Beijing's foreign interference, comes from a rioting deeply impacted by foreign interference.
00:09:18.560 We're not aware of any illegal activities from Mr. Ma, but I see him repeatedly in meetings with people in Markham, Ontario, which I assert are known to CSIS and the RCMP as alleged Chinese agents.
00:09:33.140 So this looks suspicious. And then we have this clip where he's acting. Essentially, it looks like he's defense counsel for the government of China saying nothing to see here. Whereas you say, Ezra, all decent people can read the reports from Human Rights Watch and other entities that say there is forced labor and it will make it into our electric vehicle supply.
00:09:54.380 So he's attacking the credibility of a well-known Canadian witness. He's acting, it seems like, a defender of China. And Ezra, I looked at the Chinese state media the day after. They were not only amplifying and celebrating Michael Ma's performance, but they pulled out of their dossier on the Canadian witness, Margaret McQuaig Johnston, saying she had been a friend of China, a researcher in years past.
00:10:20.620 Now she was, quote, an anti-China pawn. They attacked her. And this makes me think, look, was Michael Ma in any way adding propaganda to help Beijing? Could there even have been behind the scenes arrangements? These are questions that I think need to be answered. And I believe they're being studied by CSIS. I have to believe that.
00:10:42.240 Well, I sure hope so. You know, we know that some of the different political activists, including MPs, have met with the Chinese consulate, which, you know, it just, I'm guessing they're a little more careful now.
00:10:55.980 I used to know a senior RCMP officer who was in charge of the Russian embassy. And one of the things they did is document every single person going in and coming out of the embassy.
00:11:08.380 And I've got to hope that they have a list of liberal or conservative MPs and senators who are going in and out, although these days, who knows, maybe it's just being done by some encrypted app.
00:11:19.940 Now, I want to come back to something.
00:11:21.000 I know there was a little detail you said that I just heard for a second, and then you moved on.
00:11:25.700 The name of this Chinese-influenced group in which Michael Ma is a director, that's the conservative business?
00:11:38.260 What was the name of it again?
00:11:40.100 The Chinese Conservative Association of Canada.
00:11:42.940 So let me just ask you, is that entire organization's purpose set up to enter into the conservative side, if it's got the word conservative in it, was the whole purpose to get pro-CCP, pro-Chinese Communist Party people in the conservatives, not just in the liberals? Is that why it's called conservative or is there another reason it's called conservative?
00:12:06.560 In a nutshell, that's the answer. At the Jamestown Foundation, people can go to that entity and read their deep report. They can go to the bureau where I have unpacked it. And how they explain it, Ezra, is the United Front Work Department is working, of course, for the Chinese Communist Party. But they want to have representatives that can pressure foreign democratic governments, no matter which party is in power.
00:12:31.820 Wow. So they are covering both. I mean, very smart, long-term strategy. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Of course, Justin Trudeau and Mark, you know, New World Order liberals are pro-Beijing, but they want to have people on the conservative side too, obviously, is what you're saying.
00:12:51.000 That's a little bit shocking to me, but it makes complete sense. Do we know if the Conservative Party has adjusted their stance towards this group? Because if it is where the Michael Maas of the world are coming from, have they sort of put up a wall to keep out people from this pressure group?
00:13:10.740 That's a great question, Ezra. Let me explain it by saying people can go to the National Post, they can go to the Bureau and read about the activities of this Chinese Conservative Canadian Association, and they can see after Aaron O'Toole lost the 2021 election, this very same association held a press conference in Markham and said that Aaron O'Toole should step down. He lost for being anti-China.
00:13:35.680 as i've reported on the bureau they did the same pressure tactic on polyev after he lost so you can
00:13:42.340 see how they're doing a pincher movement on the conservatives for being critical of china and
00:13:47.260 that's the whole story china does not like critics in foreign governments right you know there's a
00:13:52.120 word for this i think entryism entryism where they just sort of walk right in and say oh i'm a
00:13:57.620 conservative party activist and then it's almost like a sleeper cell now as you say we don't have
00:14:03.980 evidence of criminality, but I agree with you. I'm sure CSIS and RCMP are on it. How much they're
00:14:09.460 allowed to say publicly is partly a political question too, of course. Now, let me just
00:14:14.680 mention one more thing in passing. There's this concert, a touring operatic concert that
00:14:23.060 supporters of the Falun Gong participate in. Falun Gong is a Chinese spiritual movement.
00:14:29.860 the chinese communists call it a cult and it's being banned in china because it's really not
00:14:34.900 under the control of the communist party and one of the things they do is put on this beautiful opera
00:14:38.840 in chinese language but it has some anti-ccp overtones i've been to their concert in toronto
00:14:44.500 probably three times it's it's just artistic it's opera and singing and ballet and um
00:14:50.300 this year and it's a very prominent event it's a black tie kind of event
00:14:55.520 and it just has a subtle freedom message that's my take on it this year it was it was false alarms
00:15:04.320 and fire alarms and the whole thing was canceled i mean we don't know who did it but it sure feels
00:15:09.520 like the chinese government or some of their agents are interfering in the lives of falangong
00:15:15.040 here in canada and this isn't the first time that they've done that i mean they target these
00:15:19.080 falangong i've seen it with my own eyes do you know anything about the canceling of the shenyan
00:15:24.120 concert this week? Ezra, you're absolutely right. This is not unique to Canada. Shen Yun concerts
00:15:31.460 worldwide repeatedly get these types of bomb threats. And I know very credible observers
00:15:38.500 that say it is Chinese communist, probably agents or people you could call self-motivated
00:15:45.140 supporters of the motherland that call in these fake bomb threats around the world.
00:15:50.280 So I do think it's highly likely that's what happened in Toronto. And we have known cases, Ezra, of critics of the Chinese Communist Party, for example, in Australia, being accused of calling in bomb threats to Chinese consulates.
00:16:06.900 So people are trying to smear them with, you know, fake criminal activities.
00:16:11.660 This is a well-known tactic of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:16:14.660 And the fact that it happened shortly after this controversy around Michael Ma, you know, it just to me, it shows that Canadians need to understand.
00:16:23.440 Wake up. Our freedoms are being attacked and they're being attacked in our own parliament.
00:16:29.580 Sam, I know you got to go, but let me ask you one last question.
00:16:31.920 I recently sat down with a U.S. ambassador and the topic of China came up a couple of times.
00:16:36.260 he referred in particular to the 49,000 electric vehicles Mark Carney has agreed to import from
00:16:42.360 China every year and he said categorically they're not going into the United States
00:16:45.960 because he says they're like spying machines all the little cameras on it feeding that data back
00:16:51.160 to to China have you heard anything from your contacts in CSIS or the RCMP because those I
00:16:59.160 mean listen a Tesla is the same way a Tesla has a dozen cameras on it and it's really a data
00:17:03.860 capture machine that's how the self-driving happens but these chinese-made evs i mean they 1.00
00:17:08.760 really are spy mobiles um you know i know in some countries like israel you're not allowed to be a
00:17:16.180 senior member of the military and have such a car you're not allowed to bring such a car in a
00:17:19.760 military base because there's just a spying machine is there anyone in the canadian government
00:17:25.840 that you know of who is worried about this because this ambassador was very frank here's a quick
00:17:30.880 clip of it he said they ain't going into america i think it's those cars can come in from china
00:17:37.420 come on come into canada they're not going to cross the border into the u.s you know china's 0.98
00:17:44.680 imports brought to you through canada into the u.s chinese airports or imports uh you know that
00:17:51.780 ain't going to happen okay uh the canadians are going to buy you know if anybody buys those cars
00:17:56.580 it's going to be Canadians. And you guys will have to take a look at it. I'm rather a simple 0.81
00:18:05.040 guy on some of this stuff. It's kind of like, okay, if you're buying 49,000 cars that are made
00:18:10.660 in China, that means that you're probably not going to be buying 49,000 cars that were built
00:18:18.340 in Ontario. Okay. That's a Canadian decision. 49,000 cars is not enough cars to build a factory.
00:18:31.160 Again, I'm a marketing guy. I'm not an engineer. But my understanding in talking to
00:18:37.380 folks in the auto industry that if you really want to build to scale a car plant, you know,
00:18:45.960 where the efficiencies and all of that in you got to be at least at a quarter of a million cars
00:18:51.240 okay you're not going to you're not going to build a factory for maybe the chinese will but
00:18:55.640 you're not going to build a factory to build 49 000 cars um but those are those are decisions
00:19:01.880 that canada has to make you know you had other factors in play um like uh you know exports of uh
00:19:09.720 canola or canola that played into this and other tariffs so that you know but
00:19:16.800 we're not gonna get involved in that but we know that we're not gonna open you
00:19:20.700 know the we're not gonna open the floodgates to have Chinese cars coming 0.99
00:19:25.080 into the US from Canada that ain't gonna happen and so you know security
00:19:31.840 standpoint you know with the technology that they now have built into cars you
00:19:38.640 You know, and I think the, you know, some insurance companies or some states are looking at, you know, when you go out and buy your license plates, it's going to be dependent on how many miles you drive per year.
00:19:51.120 And that number is not going to be, you know, derived from a form that you fill out that says, oh, I drove 11,500 miles last year.
00:19:59.800 it'll come from some data that they're getting that has tracked your car for the last year and
00:20:06.060 they said yeah you said you drove 11 500 we're tracking it you drove 13 321 miles and here's
00:20:15.080 exactly where you went uh and so uh you know i i would expect coming out of the intelligence world
00:20:23.480 That car driving around from China, it's a great gobbler of data and information.
00:20:39.180 It's consuming and getting information, and at times it will be sending information.
00:20:49.520 Have you heard anything like that in Canada?
00:20:51.280 that? Yeah, Ezra, I have heard from, you know, self-acknowledged former Canadian national security
00:20:58.360 experts that say absolutely those are spy vehicles. In Poland, also another country, I believe that
00:21:04.780 such vehicles are banned. And look at the state of modern warfare, Ezra, where foreign governments,
00:21:11.300 and I'm talking about the good guys, so United States and Israel, can locate to a kill point 0.97
00:21:18.060 where people live. So imagine China going around North America, capturing more information through
00:21:24.160 spy vehicles about the nooks and corners where our leaders might be living. So absolutely,
00:21:30.780 it's not only a spy vehicle concern, but it's a concern that Mark Carney could be burning up
00:21:36.880 our trade agreement with the United States if he lets those spy vehicles made by Uyghur slave labor 1.00
00:21:44.620 into our supply chain it's a it's a suicidal trade deal i believe yeah i just don't get why
00:21:50.680 how that could possibly help the ontario auto industry sam great to see you always happy to
00:21:55.400 have you join us folks if you're not following the bureau.news you're doing it wrong because
00:22:00.300 you're going to get more of the other side of the story from sam than pretty much anywhere else
00:22:05.360 you know and it's not just on china stuff which we care about but on iran and other uh bad actors
00:22:11.200 in canada so i really encourage you to go to the bureau.news we're in the age of citizen journalism
00:22:17.220 where an expert like sam on his own can do as much important work as a major outlet so i and
00:22:24.000 we're always glad that you come on all the best you sam keep in touch and stay safe i'm sure that
00:22:28.500 you're on a lot of uh hit lists too god forbid uh i you know stay safe i know keep your head on
00:22:35.420 your swivel i know you you do you're very alert to these things because you're a thorn in the side
00:22:39.980 to the bad guys. So thanks for being here. Thanks, Ezra. I'm staying safe and staying
00:22:44.060 trained up. Right on. There he is, Sam Cooper.