Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Standing tall： A special longform interview with Maxime Bernier

00:00:00.000 Hey, we like talking to Maxime Bernier, the People's Party is always interesting and a very

00:00:03.820 principled freedom fighter, but he's actually running for parliament in a special by-election

00:00:09.120 in the riding of Portage Lisger in Manitoba. And you may not know that riding, but let me tell you

00:00:13.400 something about it that might get your attention. I think it's the riding with the highest PPC vote

00:00:19.320 in the entire country. I think, I think it was there. 22% voted for the PPC last time and the

00:00:26.420 incumbent conservatives aren't running again. I think the lad might have a chance. We'll talk to

00:00:31.240 him about that and other things. But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.

00:00:35.240 It's the video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com, click subscribe, eight bucks a

00:00:40.100 month. But you know what? That might not be a lot of money to you, but boy, it's a lot to us. It adds

00:00:44.480 up and that's how we pay our bills. Please consider supporting us. All right, here's today's podcast.

00:00:49.520 Tonight, a feature interview with Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada.

00:00:57.460 He's running in a by-election that the PPC might just win. It's May 22nd, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.

00:01:04.220 Shame on you, you censorious bug.

00:01:19.520 Well, there's a joke, and it's funny in other circumstances, but it is terribly unfunny in this 0.51

00:01:24.540 one. The old joke was, every politician deserves to serve two terms. The first in parliament, the

00:01:33.460 second in prison. It's a joke, but it's not funny here because our guest today is one of the only

00:01:40.740 Canadian politicians in history I can think of who was actually jailed as a political expression

00:01:49.100 of punishment for him, and now he again seeks a term of office in that same province. You can

00:01:57.760 probably guess I'm talking about Maxime Bernier, and you probably know that the arrest and jail time

00:02:03.160 I'm referring to is when he dared to campaign in Manitoba during the pandemic, and no one less than

00:02:09.140 Brian Pallister, the former MP for the seat he is now contesting in Manitoba, told Maxime Bernier,

00:02:17.980 get out, or we will do our worst to you. It was terrible politics. It wasn't even politics. It was

00:02:23.980 bullying. It was using the instruments of the state to punish a rival. Enough from me. Let me welcome

00:02:31.660 back to the program the leader of the People's Party of Canada and a friend of the show, Maxime Bernier.

00:02:36.720 Maxime, great to see you again. Thanks for taking the time to be with us.

00:02:40.360 Thank you, Ezra. I'm very pleased to have that opportunity to be with you.

00:02:43.980 Well, my joke, it was not a good one, but you actually recently were convicted, weren't you,

00:02:52.000 of a legacy pandemic law. I mean, the pandemic has been over for ages, but you were in fact

00:02:58.540 convicted and fined. And in this bizarre footage, you were jailed briefly, but you were jailed

00:03:05.120 on the left. Let's just remind viewers what that looked like.

00:03:10.040 Afternoon, sir. Yes.

00:03:11.440 With the RCMP. Yeah.

00:03:12.800 I can get you to step out of the vehicle. I'm going to place you under arrest right now.

00:03:15.040 Yeah.

00:03:21.320 Right now, you're under arrest under the provincial health orders. Okay, so if you can just put your

00:03:25.280 hands behind your back, face towards the vehicle. Okay, give me one hand here.

00:03:29.760 I'll get you to step out of the vehicle. Okay? Yeah. The other hand. Do you have any weapons

00:03:36.220 or anything on you, sir? Weapon? No, no weapon. Only my words. Anything on you that's going to hurt me?

00:03:40.200 Anything like that? Sorry? Anything on you that's going to hurt me or anything like that?

00:03:43.740 No, no, anything that will hurt you. Only my words. Only my philosophy. Only what I believe in.

00:03:48.300 Okay. All right, come on over this way. I'll explain a few things to you hear right away.

00:03:59.760 How that video did not receive universal outrage and condemnation, not just in the media,

00:04:25.260 but also from politicians of every stripe and civil libertarians, remains a very dark moment to me

00:04:32.340 that Canadians, in the establishment at least, were just fine with a politician being jailed

00:04:38.700 for daring to go and meet constituents. How did it go in court? I mean, I think it's outrageous

00:04:44.900 that you were jailed and fined and convicted at all. What did the judge say?

00:04:49.960 First, Ezra, I must say that you and Tucker were the only two who had, you know,

00:04:59.980 I won't say the courage, but you, you know, spoke about that, what that happened during the last

00:05:05.520 election. The mainstream media didn't want to, you know, cover what happened to me. That was the

00:05:12.560 first time in the history of our country that the leader of a political party has been arrested

00:05:18.800 and put in jail for a non-crime after a meeting in a park. So, and I was, you're right, recently

00:05:28.240 in court and I had the opportunity to speak to the judge because, you know, I didn't plead guilty.

00:05:37.320 That's very important. I signed an agreement and I said, you know, I agree with the facts

00:05:43.660 because I didn't want the crowd to take three days to prove that I was there at a rally outside

00:05:51.920 with 15 people. So, I said, I'm a responsible person and yes, I'm admitting that I did that.

00:05:59.720 And so, I said to the court, this is what I did. And that's why, you know, instead of being three days

00:06:07.040 in court, it was just a morning, three hours, and I was able to save money for the taxpayer here.

00:06:15.740 So, and after that, and the judge said, do you have something to say to the court? I said, absolutely.

00:06:23.480 I said, you know, this is what I did. You have a video of what I did, a meeting in a park during

00:06:29.560 the pandemic. But don't forget, Your Honor, it was a year and a half after the beginning

00:06:37.700 of that pandemic. So, at that time, we knew that the virus was not deadly for the majority

00:06:44.800 of Canadians, except for older people with comorbidities. And I said, you know, we have

00:06:51.760 a charter of rights. And I must, as a political leader, before a political election, to be able

00:06:59.840 to use my constitutional rights, the right to freely speak, the right to peaceful assembly,

00:07:08.020 and being able to speak with the Canadians. And, you know, you didn't do that. But for me,

00:07:15.020 the worst of all that, I was the only one, we were 15, in a meeting in a park, I was the

00:07:21.740 only one who received a ticket, I was the only one who was arrested and coughed and put in jail.

00:07:29.220 And I said it was political repression. And I'm saying that because, like you just said

00:07:34.240 at the beginning, Ezra, before coming to Manitoba, the premier of that province said, if Maxime Bernier

00:07:43.280 is coming to this province, and wants to have a meeting outside, I can tell you, his pocketbook

00:07:51.740 will be empty. So he said something like that in a press conference.

00:07:56.700 Yeah, let's play a clip of that. It was just absolutely shocking. That statement alone

00:08:01.180 should have caused this prosecution to drop because whether or not he meant it, even if he

00:08:07.360 was just talking tough, being a big man bragging, he created the perception that the police and the

00:08:13.720 prosecution do the bidding of an elected politician. Let's play that clip here. The moment he said that,

00:08:21.340 it's like he poisoned the prosecution and anything that came from it would have been fruit of a

00:08:27.460 poisoned tree. Let's just show that clip for a second. Premier, Maxime Bernier is supposed to be

00:08:32.780 touring the province and holding events Friday through Sunday this week. How is the province

00:08:39.840 going to handle these numerous gatherings that are going to be set up along his tour?

00:08:48.900 Well, he's violating the public health orders. He's going to be light in the pocketbook.

00:08:52.940 And I'd suggest that he not violate the public health orders. But of course, I'm not going to be

00:08:58.520 directly involved in the enforcement, nor should I be.

00:09:00.500 That was a disgrace. Brian Pallister was one of the most abusive premiers. He was so punitive.

00:09:07.520 I'm sure. And that made it extra bad. I mean, you could say, well, it was a police decision. No,

00:09:12.200 it was not. The premier said, I'm going to do it. And he did it. And everyone just said, OK,

00:09:18.340 I guess that's how it is now.

00:09:19.780 And Andrew, I can tell you, that was a political repression. Because when I was arrested and put in

00:09:28.020 jail, if you were able to see in the video, these RCMP officers didn't have their full, you know,

00:09:37.560 official costume, uniform, sorry, official uniform. And when we arrived at the

00:09:47.560 detachment, so the guy just asked, can you tell me where are the washrooms? So that person,

00:09:59.800 that officer was not coming from that detachment. He was coming from Winnipeg. And he had an order to

00:10:05.880 arrest me. And that's what he did. So and I was 12 hours in a jail. But what I said to the judge,

00:10:14.780 I said, you want me to pay a fine? I believe that I did pay for what I did. I was 12 hours in a jail.

00:10:23.840 And now you want to add to that a fine? And, you know, that that's your discretion. But if you're

00:10:30.800 doing that, I want to have the opportunity to give that money to a shelter for women here in Winnipeg.

00:10:39.680 And she said, no, you must give 2000 bucks to the state, the same state that violated my rights.

00:10:47.320 That's very frustrating. You know, I'm familiar with stories like this, not obviously

00:10:54.060 a high profile political leader. But as you know, the Democracy Fund, which is a civil liberties

00:11:00.400 charity created two years ago, has fought literally 2500 cases. And they all sound as excruciatingly

00:11:08.820 frustrating and Kafkaesque as what you've just described. Did you ever get an explanation

00:11:15.020 for why they took you to jail? It was not a criminal. You broke no criminal law.

00:11:21.240 The the worst that could happen to you if you were convicted of this offense is what did happen to

00:11:26.320 you. You pay a fine. It's really in a way like an expensive traffic ticket. Like it was not a crime.

00:11:32.280 You were not. I don't I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. You were charged with a provincial offense,

00:11:36.020 which is like a it's like speeding. And so why would they put you in jail if even being convicted

00:11:43.020 of it could not possibly have amounted to a jail term? Did they ever explain why you were jailed?

00:11:49.680 No, they did not. But I told the judge at that hearing that, you know, I was traveling across the

00:11:58.460 country that summer to build a party to be ready for the next election to find candidates.

00:12:04.000 And I did rallies, you know, in Alberta, in Ontario, in Quebec. And I can tell you that I had

00:12:11.860 some tickets in Saskatchewan and Ontario, but I didn't go to jail. I received the tickets,

00:12:19.840 like you said, and, you know, I just have to pay it. But now that was not enough for them. That's a

00:12:26.740 proof that the the leader of that province, the premier at that time didn't want me to do rallies

00:12:34.280 and didn't want to hear the other side of the story. And, and I was supposed to have a big rally

00:12:42.040 in Winnipeg the day after, but I was not able because I was in jail. So so it's, it's a shame what

00:12:50.560 happened. But also, Ezra, I must tell you, some people are telling me, yeah, Maxim, okay, you have

00:12:56.820 to pay that fines. But you know, if you're a real freedom fighters, why you didn't appeal that decision?

00:13:03.580 And that's a good question. And I want to make it clear. I didn't appeal the decision first,

00:13:09.240 to save some time from the court and money for taxpayers. But second, the there is a case like

00:13:17.300 my case, you know, against the citizen here in Manitoba, who did have a rally outside during the

00:13:27.220 COVID hysteria. And, and that case will be before the appeal court of Manitoba this year. So we will

00:13:36.560 have a decision about that, if what the government did to me and other people here in Manitoba will

00:13:43.880 have a decision from the appeal court, if that was legal, or constitutional.

00:13:50.600 You know, I'm not optimistic, almost every single constitutional challenge of everything done in

00:13:55.400 the lockdowns has failed. And for me, it was a great disillusioning. I went to law school, you know,

00:14:01.420 25 years ago, and we were taught that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was not only a

00:14:06.240 powerful and almost a holy document, but it was so essentially part of our identity as Canadians and

00:14:12.640 certainly as lawyers. And in the greatest civil liberties bonfire in a generation, it literally

00:14:18.240 did nothing for us. And in fact, to this day, the Supreme Court has not bothered itself to weigh in on

00:14:23.080 anything regarding the lockdowns. I find it atrocious. Well, listen, I appreciate you telling us those

00:14:28.640 stories, but I know that if you have your way, you will be redeemed in that same province that jailed

00:14:37.180 you so vindictively. And I mentioned Brian Pallister, that premier we just showed, he was the progressive

00:14:44.120 conservative MP about 20 years ago for the riding Portage-Lisger that is now in a by-election.

00:14:52.820 And there are four federal by-elections happening, if I'm not mistaken, on June 19th. And one of them

00:14:58.780 was held by Candace Bergen, formerly known as Candace Heppner. And I was just looking at the stats.

00:15:05.340 She used to win that thing with 75% of the vote. It's a very, I spoke at a Candace Bergen fundraiser

00:15:13.280 a decade or two ago. It was one of the most right-wing places I've ever been.

00:15:17.300 And then in the last election, this is what's so fascinating, and then I'll button up and listen

00:15:24.020 to your reaction. I just looked at the stats. In the last election, the People's Party of Canada

00:15:30.860 received 22% of the vote, if I'm not mistaken. That's got to be, if not the highest, one of the

00:15:38.060 highest numbers in the whole country. And every single one of those votes came off the conservative

00:15:43.720 vote. Candace Bergen went from about 75% down to about 50%. And all the other votes went to the 1.00

00:15:51.460 PPC. So if, in my theory, is if that's one of the strongest PPC ridings in the country,

00:15:57.920 if last time against a longstanding member of parliament, he got 22%, with Candace Bergen gone

00:16:07.220 and the leader of the party running, I have to say, although I still think it would be a long shot

00:16:14.140 and a shock to the system, I have to say, I think it's in the realm of the possible, especially by

00:16:20.920 elections, which are prone to protest votes. People who are motivated go out more than people who are

00:16:26.880 fine with things. I think you've actually got a chance.

00:16:29.740 I believe so, Andrew, but I will have to work very hard. And that's why, you know, I came in the

00:16:38.200 riding a couple of weeks before the announcement. I was in that riding a couple of times since the

00:16:44.120 general election. As you said, we had our biggest rally in that riding during the last election. We

00:16:51.840 had 3,000 people outside. Our candidate did very well, actually, I must admit, did better than myself,

00:16:58.820 the leader of the party. I had 21% in both and he had 22%. And it is a rural riding like my former

00:17:06.700 riding in both. And there's also a Francophone community here. And you're right to say that's

00:17:13.440 maybe the most conservative riding in the country. So, and that's why I believe that I have a chance

00:17:22.140 and I may be able to win that election. Because, you know, I'm the only candidate who will speak for

00:17:29.980 real conservative values. I'm doing that all the time. And here in that riding, we will promote

00:17:36.420 family values like we did at the last election. And like you said, it is not a general election.

00:17:43.620 It is a by-election. And as you may know, Ezra, the Conservative Party of Canada likes to say during

00:17:51.720 general election, oh, if you like the policies of the People's Party, and if you like Maxime Bernier,

00:17:59.860 yeah, that's okay. But, you know, we need to get rid of Justin Trudeau. I don't want you to spit the

00:18:05.840 vote. But there's no such thing as spitting the vote during a by-election because we won't change

00:18:12.360 the government. The Trudeau government will be there after the election. And during a general

00:18:17.320 election, I'm saying, you know, I'm not spitting any vote. I'm just a real conservative. But Poliev

00:18:22.100 is spitting the liberal votes. That's his job. And that's what he wants to do to be in power.

00:18:28.920 But that being said, I will speak about family values. I will have fun in the riding. We have a

00:18:36.120 strong team also. So we will do pretty well. And my team on the ground, they are very happy. And

00:18:44.580 they're saying, you know, Maxime, you will come here because you are speaking like us, maybe with

00:18:51.220 a French accent. But I like the people here. We share the same values. And I'm having fun running

00:18:57.880 for them. And I want to be their representative. I'll do everything. And we'll see what will happen.

00:19:03.080 You know, by the way, it's a very multilingual riding. I think about a third of people there

00:19:08.800 speak German at home. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, there's that Mennonite tradition of German farmers,

00:19:15.200 very conservative people. I like it there. I haven't been there in a few years. But it is

00:19:20.980 definitely one of the most conservative ridings in the country. Let me ask you this. I know that the

00:19:27.340 Conservative Party of Canada has nominated a candidate. And have there been any all-candidates

00:19:33.640 debates? Have you attended any of those? Have you been invited to any of those? What is it like when

00:19:38.160 you interact with the conservative and the other parties? But I really think this is going to be a

00:19:42.160 two-way battle. I don't think the liberals have a chance there. I don't think they ever did.

00:19:46.060 I don't think, I mean, listen, last election, it was conservatives 50, approximately 50,

00:19:52.340 PPC, approximately 22. I think that it's really a two-horse race there in this by-election.

00:19:58.380 What has been the interactions that you've had on this campaign so far? Has there been anything

00:20:05.860 formal like a debate? Yeah, I must say that I didn't have any interaction with my conservative

00:20:11.740 opponent. I believe it will come because you're right. We called every chamber of commerce,

00:20:19.340 every local media, and we said to them, we want to have debates. We want to have debates, you know,

00:20:26.520 every day. I'm ready to that. I'm ready for that, sorry. And I'm pretty sure that we'll have a couple

00:20:33.420 of debates. But I had the opportunity to meet people here in this writing, farmers, and also

00:20:41.680 entrepreneurs. It's going well. It's going well. People understand that as the leader of a party,

00:20:48.360 it is my job and my responsibility to be elected as soon as possible. Look what Jack Meade did. He's a

00:20:57.600 guy from Toronto, and he went up to the West Coast in Vancouver to be elected. I'm a guy from Montreal,

00:21:06.540 originally from Boes. When I did run in Boes, before that, I was living in Montreal. And I said to people

00:21:13.860 in Boes, I will live in Boes, I will be with you if I'm winning. And that's what I did. Now I'm

00:21:19.600 living in Montreal, and I'm ready to be here in Manitoba after the next election. So it's going well.

00:21:27.180 And that's only the beginning of the campaign. So I hope that I will have the opportunity to be with

00:21:33.160 you before the end of the campaign. And I will be able to tell you a little bit more about my

00:21:38.280 interaction with people here. But we had a good rally. When I started the campaign, we had a lot

00:21:47.580 of people there. So it's fun. And people understand that they have an opportunity to make history.

00:21:55.020 Because you may know that, Ezra, but the first elected reform party member was Deborah in

00:22:06.260 by-election in 1989. And after that, at the next general election, they had 51 reform candidates

00:22:15.200 elected. And that's the same thing. It's a by-election. So I can be in the House and start

00:22:20.880 that common sense revolution, populist revolution in the House the June the 19th. And I'll be ready

00:22:28.220 for that. Yeah, very interesting. Now, the by-election has not been afoot for very long,

00:22:33.420 or at least I don't think it's been. So maybe people are just sort of waking up to it. How is the

00:22:38.560 local media coverage been? Have you been covered by local reporters, local media? And if so,

00:22:47.280 how has their treatment of your candidacy been? Yeah, I thank you for asking, because it's great

00:22:54.720 to be with you, Ezra, and to speak to the national media. But the most important is the local media.

00:23:01.320 And you have some reach here in the writing, I'm pretty sure. But yeah, I did a press conference,

00:23:07.080 and I can tell you that I had a very good, honest, honest coverage. And I like it. And so they told me,

00:23:14.420 let me know what you're doing, we will cover you, and we will cover your opponent. So that's good.

00:23:20.400 I'm very happy with that. And up to now, that's a fair coverage. And I'm very happy they're doing

00:23:29.100 their job. I believe better than the mainstream journalists, leftist journalists, who are not so

00:23:38.300 kind to cover a leader of a party in a by-election. But actually, they did cover other leaders during

00:23:46.240 the elections. And I hope that the mainstream media will follow our campaign a little bit.

00:23:51.460 Yeah. Well, I think you'd probably do better if the Ottawa media completely ignored you,

00:23:56.280 and you just dealt with local reporters. I think local reporters are not infected by the mind virus

00:24:01.380 of hating anyone who's contrarian, hating anyone who's outside the club. I think one of the main

00:24:08.660 problems of the Ottawa media is not just that it's left of center, but that it is such a clique,

00:24:14.400 such a closed shop. And they probably look down their nose at anything in Manitoba, let alone a

00:24:20.480 small town, rural, riding. Like they would look down their nose at Winnipeg, and they would laugh

00:24:25.960 and scoff at Portage-Lisker. So I think, frankly, you don't want Ottawa media. They'll just,

00:24:32.800 you know, do the usual number on you. I think talking to local journalists will be much more

00:24:38.760 profitable. Have there been any polls so far? Is it still too early? Because that would be

00:24:43.480 fascinating. I bet the conservatives are polling there. Has anything been shown publicly yet?

00:24:49.500 No. First, you must know that we at the People's Party, we don't do any pollings and any focus

00:24:56.340 group. First, we don't want to spend money for that. The money that we have, we are spending the

00:25:01.820 money during a campaign to promote the party because, like you said, we don't have a fair

00:25:06.480 coverage. We didn't have a fair coverage at the last general election. So we are putting money aside

00:25:11.940 to have that money during the general election. And it's early because, you know, the election was

00:25:18.160 called last Sunday. So we are in the beginning of that campaign. But I believe that we will have

00:25:26.800 some polling. But for me, I will tell you something that every politician is telling you. The real poll

00:25:35.540 is the day of the election. And so we will work very hard to be sure that we have a good score

00:25:41.820 the day of the election. Yeah. Well, listen, it's very interesting. And we'll certainly keep our eye

00:25:47.000 on it. And I think we might send someone to Portage Lisger on election night. We don't have anyone

00:25:53.140 based in Manitoba, but we love to cover the prairies. I mean, we're a prairie at heart. I'm from Calgary

00:25:58.320 originally. I think it's interesting. And by the way, we have in the past on a number of occasions made

00:26:04.020 invitations to interview the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Pierre Polyev.

00:26:08.580 He has declined our invitation so far. And we certainly would also interview, because we're

00:26:15.260 interested in this race, the local Conservative candidate. And in fact, I will make an invitation

00:26:19.420 to him after this video airs. And I think he should come aboard. He will get a fair interview from me,

00:26:26.580 and I will ask him very similar questions to what I've asked you. And we'll see if he's brave enough to

00:26:32.080 do that or if he's been instructed not to. Maxime Vernier, as always, a pleasure to catch up with

00:26:36.840 you. And good luck on the campaign trail. We look forward to talking to you again.

00:26:41.600 Thank you, Ezra. So, yes, you must follow us. And I appreciate your fair coverage. Let's stay in

00:26:50.180 touch. And I'm pretty sure that I will speak with you maybe at the day of the election. And I hope it

00:26:57.620 will be great news for Canadians. We'll see. So, have a nice day. And let's stay in touch.

00:27:02.740 We'll do. Thank you very much. There you have it. Maxime Vernier, leader of the People's Party of

00:27:07.160 Canada, candidate in the June 19th by-election in Portage-Lisker. And as I mentioned, a very

00:27:12.780 strong showing for the People's Party in the last election, over 20%. I think if there's an area for

00:27:19.760 a breakthrough, statistically speaking, this could be it. That's our show for today. Until tomorrow,

00:27:26.140 on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night. And keep fighting for

00:27:30.980 freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - May 22, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Standing tall： A special longform interview with Maxime Bernier

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