Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ The path we're going down is intolerable and untenable： an interview with Bruce Pardy

00:00:00.080 Hello, my Rebels, one of the smartest guys in Canada, one of the few freedom fighters left in academia.

00:00:05.020 His name is Bruce Pardee. He's a professor of law at Queens University, and he's the boss of Rights Probe.

00:00:11.040 We're going to spend almost an hour with Bruce Pardee. Boy, it's a good one.

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00:00:49.720 All right, here's today's show.

00:00:51.280 Tonight, a feature conversation with Professor Bruce Pardee, professor, journalist, activist.

00:00:57.520 It's January 10th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:01:01.860 You're fighting for freedom!

00:01:04.800 Shame on you, you sensorism bug!

00:01:07.880 Well, you can count the number of freedom-oriented professors on the fingers of one hand in Canada

00:01:22.120 these days, and I say that with a great sense of sorrow.

00:01:25.720 There probably are more, but few are willing to stick their heads above the parapet, because

00:01:31.020 I think that these days, cancel culture will destroy even the toughest and biggest.

00:01:35.980 In fact, I suppose the greatest public intellectual in Canada these days, at least measured by book

00:01:42.580 sales and crowds to hear his speeches, is our friend Dr. Jordan Peterson.

00:01:46.780 And would you look at that?

00:01:47.840 They're trying not just to cancel him, but to remove his license to practice psychology

00:01:53.540 because of some public tweets he's made.

00:01:56.600 Well, Dr. Bruce Pardee is a professor for freedom.

00:02:00.560 He joins us today.

00:02:01.880 We'll have a wide-ranging catch-up on the year that was.

00:02:05.900 Professor Pardee, great to see you.

00:02:07.280 Thanks for being with us.

00:02:09.180 Thanks for having me, Ezra.

00:02:10.540 Always a pleasure to be with you.

00:02:11.840 Well, thanks for saying that.

00:02:13.260 We are in dangerous times.

00:02:15.880 And I think, let's talk for a second about our friend Jordan Peterson.

00:02:21.300 You know, you don't have to agree with everything the guy says, but he's certainly a great discusser.

00:02:26.520 He's a great conversationalist.

00:02:28.040 He chews things over.

00:02:29.540 I think he's a man who tries to think things through in good way.

00:02:32.500 I think he's a great teacher.

00:02:34.000 He has strong opinions.

00:02:35.340 That's fine.

00:02:35.980 I think that when the Ontario College of Psychologists summons him to a hearing, an ethics hearing,

00:02:45.500 and threatens to take away his license because of some tweets he's made, I think they're trying to say,

00:02:51.460 if we can take on Jordan Peterson, millionaire, celebrity, intercontinental star, we can take on you.

00:03:00.420 So don't you get any big ideas.

00:03:02.560 Fall in line.

00:03:03.400 That's, I think, what they're trying to say.

00:03:05.040 If he's scared, you should be scared.

00:03:07.340 What do you think of that?

00:03:09.720 I think Jordan's case is a case for the times.

00:03:15.280 I mean, he is all those things that you mentioned.

00:03:18.200 He is an exceptional public intellectual and has helped, by reports, millions of people through his writings and his teachings and so on.

00:03:32.500 And this action by his college is, unfortunately, it's not an aberration.

00:03:42.340 It is consistent with the pattern.

00:03:44.140 He's just a very big fish.

00:03:45.620 And it's become a public thing, which is great.

00:03:48.260 I mean, that's the only good thing about this.

00:03:51.560 Because of Jordan's status, this has now become a very public kind of witch hunt. 0.98

00:03:57.720 And that's what it is.

00:03:58.480 It's a kind of witch hunt.

00:04:01.160 It's not just the College of Psychologists, Psychiatrists.

00:04:05.840 It's professional regulators of all different kinds.

00:04:10.480 I mean, nurses are being disciplined for believing in binary sex.

00:04:14.760 We had our own issue at the Law Society of Ontario, where they tried to require all licensees to adopt their own statement of principles, which required them to embrace the ideology of equity, diversity and inclusion.

00:04:30.920 One more example, the College of Physicians of Ontario basically told their licensees that they were not allowed to express opinions that were anti-lockdown, anti-mandate, anti-masking.

00:04:46.520 They just weren't allowed to express their medical opinions about those issues.

00:04:50.160 So across the board, we are seeing regulators be much more aggressive in an ideological sense.

00:04:58.540 You are not now allowed to step outside the lines of their preferred ideological agenda.

00:05:08.260 And it is a very disturbing pattern to see.

00:05:11.080 And Jordan's case is one of these cases.

00:05:15.440 And I hope that it will bring this issue into the public mind and let people see what is happening.

00:05:23.760 Yeah.

00:05:24.160 It'll be interesting to see if he's just too big for them to swallow, because this is a real showdown.

00:05:32.100 I mean, he is as big as they get.

00:05:33.860 If they can get him, they can get anyone, is what I'm saying.

00:05:36.020 And I think that's sort of their bet.

00:05:37.920 But he he can be stubborn.

00:05:40.700 And, you know, I remember when he said something that got him suspended on Twitter.

00:05:45.020 And I don't know if you've ever been suspended on Twitter, but they have this they used to have this sort of Stalinist move, which is that they would not reinstate you.

00:05:55.220 You had to reinstate yourself by deleting your tweet.

00:05:59.000 They wouldn't delete it for you.

00:06:01.020 They would never do that.

00:06:02.340 We would never delete our or censor our people.

00:06:05.620 They have to censor themselves.

00:06:07.180 They have to discipline themselves.

00:06:08.880 And Jordan Peterson refused to do that.

00:06:11.080 He had millions of followers.

00:06:12.640 It was an enormous and commercially valuable outlet for him.

00:06:16.700 But on principle or stubbornness or a mix of the two, he would not self censor.

00:06:23.440 And he managed to wait it out.

00:06:25.780 And Elon Musk saved the day.

00:06:27.960 That same personality and belief system is at play here.

00:06:32.780 He will not bend the knee.

00:06:34.080 He's not going quietly.

00:06:35.120 He's publicly fighting with the Ontario College of Psychologists.

00:06:39.720 I don't think anyone even heard.

00:06:42.280 I didn't know there was a College of Psychologists before.

00:06:46.820 But now they're getting a little bit famous.

00:06:48.200 By the way, we have a petition.

00:06:50.140 SavePeterson.com.

00:06:51.120 I don't know if he needs us to save him.

00:06:52.500 But last I checked, we sent more than 6,200 people to the college to complain by phone or email.

00:07:00.320 So I think their secretary is being a little bit busy.

00:07:03.560 But he is calling their bluff on.

00:07:08.060 How do you think it's going to end?

00:07:09.020 Oh, I wouldn't want to try and call that.

00:07:12.080 But listen, the pattern here is not unlike the Twitter situation that you mentioned.

00:07:17.300 In that what they have asked him to do is to undergo a kind of sort of re-education program.

00:07:26.940 It sounds like something out of Stalinist Russia.

00:07:29.760 Yeah.

00:07:30.120 To, at his own expense, to add insult to injury.

00:07:33.700 To be instructed on the proper way to express himself on social media.

00:07:39.840 I mean, it is to laugh.

00:07:42.620 I mean, who could possibly instruct Jordan Peterson on how to express himself on social media?

00:07:48.040 Yeah, they're going to even coach.

00:07:49.120 That was the word they used.

00:07:49.960 We're going to coach you.

00:07:51.440 That was the word they used.

00:07:53.320 But his stubbornness, the way you put it, or his principledness, or the combination thereof, is one of his great strengths.

00:08:01.280 He's not going to do that.

00:08:02.600 He's just not going to do it.

00:08:04.540 And so it's going to become a game of chicken between the college and him about who's going to back away first.

00:08:14.000 And how it's going to end, I have no idea.

00:08:16.100 But part of the problem here is illegal.

00:08:22.240 And we can go into that in more detail if you like.

00:08:24.540 But this thing they've asked them to do, to be coached or re-educated, comes even before they've had a hearing.

00:08:34.200 This is not the resolution.

00:08:36.300 This is a small committee saying, oh, well, we have these complaints against you.

00:08:41.140 But the complaints, by the way, are not from any of his patients.

00:08:44.040 They're just from other psychologists, I presume, who don't like what it is that he's saying on social media and the like.

00:08:54.020 But in any event, there's a small committee who have received these complaints who have decided, well, let's have him coached.

00:09:01.040 And so there's a there's a there's really a process problem here as well.

00:09:06.840 So and this is not uncommon, not uncommon amongst regulators.

00:09:11.260 It's they're sort of laws unto themselves.

00:09:14.320 They are given great powers in statutes that create them.

00:09:18.860 And yet they are parts of the state.

00:09:22.780 Right. They're part of government because because they have a regulatory role and you can't practice as a lawyer or a doctor or a psychologist without a license from them.

00:09:31.600 So it's very problematic.

00:09:33.820 Yeah. I mean, I don't think that Jordan Peterson relies on his psychology practice to pay the bills anymore.

00:09:41.160 But but that's not the point is that status, his his professional credential is part of his identity.

00:09:49.580 It's part of the basis of a lot of his ideas.

00:09:52.360 They want to take that away to embarrass him, to discredit him.

00:09:55.600 And because, as you point out, it is a regulatory vehicle that is not optional, like it has the power to end a man's career.

00:10:07.120 And you mentioned nurses.

00:10:09.280 I think you and I both know a nurse in British Columbia named Amy Hamm. 0.95

00:10:13.680 That's the one who sponsored a billboard that just said, I love J.K. Rowling.

00:10:18.720 That's the author behind the Harry Potter series because she was skeptical of transgenderism. 0.87

00:10:25.920 She's now being accused of being unfit to be a nurse because she could do violence to a transgender patient. 1.00

00:10:35.640 I don't even know what the thinking there is.

00:10:37.280 But there's an example of a, quote, little person who doesn't have the star power or the financial resources or the legal resources.

00:10:44.960 Now, the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms is helping Amy Hamm.

00:10:48.980 But right.

00:10:49.560 But that's an example of someone who could be crushed by this, who doesn't have the international cachet to fight back.

00:10:56.740 That's why I'm hoping.

00:10:57.980 And I think they bit off more than they can chew because I think Peterson is stubborn.

00:11:02.800 And I think at the end of the day, they've gone too far today.

00:11:06.460 Now, five years from now, who knows?

00:11:08.700 This this may be the new precedent, the new norm.

00:11:11.140 But I'm you know, I don't wish any harm on him, but I'm delighted they went for him because I think they bit off more than they can chew.

00:11:18.240 And I think he's going to cause a good precedent here.

00:11:21.740 I think he's going to win.

00:11:24.880 Right.

00:11:25.300 Well, I certainly hope you're right.

00:11:26.360 And I think he's got a good shot.

00:11:27.920 And I'm I'm you know, we're all we're all behind him.

00:11:30.640 And as you say, he if they were going to pick on anyone, I mean, he's the one probably most able to to take it.

00:11:40.120 And Amy, Amy is only one of a whole number of examples who have been subject to this kind of of of of discipline.

00:11:47.540 That, you know, that the central problem, I think, is in the idea that the regulators are entitled to to discipline their licensees for something as vague as unprofessional conduct.

00:12:03.300 Yeah. Yeah.

00:12:04.320 Conduct unbecoming.

00:12:05.460 What do you what does that mean?

00:12:06.740 You've been quite unbecoming tonight, dear.

00:12:08.880 Your jokes were off off color.

00:12:10.600 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:12:11.220 I was unbecoming.

00:12:11.920 You know, in a different era that that maybe sort of works because everybody sort of knew what the boundaries were and maybe arguably not.

00:12:21.760 But it becomes much more difficult in this era when when unbecoming has a political edge to it.

00:12:28.420 They're defining it in political terms.

00:12:30.000 If you are not on board with a essentially a progressive or woke agenda, I mean, if you don't believe in transgenderism, if you don't embrace equity, diversity and inclusion on their terms, if if you object to the covid mandates or any of a number of other ideologically tinted things, then they they have the power to say you are being unprofessional.

00:12:57.740 You know, I think the worst example of this was the doctors who had a second opinion during the covid scare.

00:13:08.220 And and when I mean scared, it was a disease.

00:13:10.640 It really did kill people.

00:13:11.860 But there was a mania and a panic.

00:13:13.900 And you must obey these public health officials who no one had ever heard of before.

00:13:20.880 And they only had one view and then everyone came into lockstep.

00:13:24.600 Like I happen to know YouTube's community editorial guidelines almost off my heart.

00:13:31.260 And one of their rules and they would cancel.

00:13:35.300 They would suspend a YouTube video.

00:13:36.660 They might even suspend your channel, cancel a channel.

00:13:39.240 And we're always at risk for that because we've got one point six million followers on YouTube.

00:13:43.580 We've never done anything obscene or violent or illegal.

00:13:47.140 But one of the rules on YouTube's community guidelines was if you disagree, if it's on covid misinformation.

00:13:54.300 Now, certain things like if you say there's microchips in the vaccine, we weren't going there.

00:13:59.740 But one of their rules was if you opposed or contradicted local health orders.

00:14:08.860 So not the science now, as if you as if science forbids you to question it.

00:14:15.480 The whole idea of science, in fact, the root of the word is to observe, to be skeptical.

00:14:21.120 But if you challenged local health authorities, like if you challenge the politics, that's a community strike.

00:14:29.020 But they went after the doctors who had a second opinion.

00:14:33.320 Any doctor in Canada who dared to say, well, these vaccines are untested.

00:14:39.560 They shouldn't be mandatory.

00:14:41.540 There may be other therapies that are less exotic that may work.

00:14:46.380 Hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, ivermectin.

00:14:48.560 If you even talked about those, what used to be a legitimate part of being a doctor, may I have a second opinion?

00:14:55.080 I'd like to seek a second opinion.

00:14:56.460 It was the Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons.

00:15:00.280 I think they were the key to the whole thing, Professor.

00:15:03.640 Go ahead.

00:15:05.660 Yeah, no, but you're absolutely right.

00:15:07.360 The wording in the even the wording in the in the in the general proposition that the College of Physicians and Surgeons has about, you know, keeping on the right side of the line.

00:15:22.840 Not even the not even the covid announcement, but but the one that says, you know, you shall you shall, you know, watch your words, essentially says that you should not contradict.

00:15:35.480 And I forget the exact wordy, but essentially it says you should not contradict the consensus of the profession.

00:15:41.160 It doesn't say you shouldn't be unscientific.

00:15:44.300 It is based upon consensus rather than on science.

00:15:49.800 Yeah.

00:15:49.940 And it suggests by implication that having a contrary scientific or medical opinion is not something that you should be expressing.

00:15:58.680 Yeah.

00:15:59.300 Yeah, it's incredible.

00:15:59.960 Which is which is which is this reflection of the of the bad place that we're now in.

00:16:06.120 Well, let's talk about that, because last week we talked, I mean, we had a good wide range of conversation about the courts.

00:16:12.100 And was there any hope there?

00:16:13.560 And I have to note.

00:16:15.740 I mean, you're a law professor.

00:16:17.020 Please correct me if I'm wrong.

00:16:19.620 But it's now almost three years since the state of emergency was invoked.

00:16:25.900 If I recall, it was March of 2020.

00:16:28.060 Well, it's January 2023.

00:16:29.260 We're coming up on three years now.

00:16:30.800 And if I'm not mistaken, our Supreme Court has yet to bother itself with any case touching on the pandemic, the lockdowns, the mandates, the curfews, the vax passports. 0.95

00:16:43.780 Am I wrong to say that our Supreme Court has literally taken a three year vacation from the pandemic?

00:16:50.960 Have they heard a single case touching on the matter?

00:16:53.060 Not to my knowledge, no, but I'm not sure that I would attribute that to their fault necessarily,

00:16:57.860 because they are they have to wait until an appeal comes to them.

00:17:00.860 They have to decide whether or not to take the appeal unless it's by right.

00:17:04.380 And these things take time.

00:17:06.060 So I I'm not sure.

00:17:09.340 I mean, there's there's there's there's a lot to criticize in this period from the courts for sure.

00:17:14.800 I'm not sure that I would start with that one.

00:17:17.600 Well, let me correct myself, because I think the chief justice of the Supreme Court did make a kind of ruling.

00:17:23.900 He himself declared a vaccine requirement for the Supreme Court office.

00:17:31.200 He publicly said that he said to work for me in my building, you must be jabbed.

00:17:38.740 And he didn't have a hearing on that.

00:17:41.040 He didn't have a debate.

00:17:41.880 He didn't seek expert opinion.

00:17:43.600 He just said this is how it's going to be.

00:17:45.620 And every other judge in the country said, oh, OK, now I know what the capo de tuticapi has to say, the boss of all bosses, the final battle in any judicial quarrel.

00:18:00.360 He's just said where he stands.

00:18:02.500 He's for vaccine mandates.

00:18:04.560 So now I know what to do, because if I'm against vaccine mandates, I know I'm going to be overturned.

00:18:10.800 Well, I know that because he just expressed himself and he literally implemented it.

00:18:15.340 So in a way, the Supreme Court of Canada's chief justice, without a hearing, without that Latin phrase, adi ultram partum, here the other side.

00:18:26.860 He just said, oh, yeah, not only do I support vaccine mandates, I'm going to implement one.

00:18:31.660 You can figure out where I stand and act accordingly.

00:18:34.880 I think that was a sneaky and atrocious act of bias.

00:18:43.780 Am I overreacting?

00:18:46.900 Well, as you know, I'm no I'm no fan of vaccine mandates and I'm I'm I'm troubled by that.

00:18:53.440 But there's something that the chief justice said during this period that I think is more egregious.

00:18:58.040 And that is comments that he made in an interview to Le Devoir condemning the trucker convoy.

00:19:05.640 Right. Right.

00:19:06.880 And and that that's sort of an out of court statement.

00:19:10.960 His opinion, his take on an act of controversy that had not been adjudicated yet could very well end up in his courtroom.

00:19:19.920 And it's it's a very well established principle that judges should not publicly express their opinions on matters that that might come before them.

00:19:31.280 And this is no ordinary judge.

00:19:33.240 This is the Supreme Court.

00:19:34.220 The the chief justice of the Supreme Court.

00:19:36.460 So even if he were to recuse himself, should that case come before him?

00:19:42.760 And the case I'm referring to is the is the challenge to the Emergencies Act, which has been brought, even if he were to recuse himself from hearing that case.

00:19:52.540 I mean, the fact that he's the chief justice and has expressed this opinion, you know, surely should be considered to have influence, you know, through the hierarchy of of the courts in the country.

00:20:03.580 So it's very hard to to calculate what kind of influence it might have had.

00:20:08.020 So for my money, that that was a that was a a bad moment and didn't didn't do the reputation of the court and the justice system in the country any good at all.

00:20:22.960 Yeah. You know.

00:20:24.740 For years, I've seen out of the corner of my eye, people come up with homemade law and it's often very good people who they're not almost none of them have gone to law school and I'm not making a snobby or elitist comment.

00:20:42.700 I'm just saying I hear people talk about common law, which is a real thing, but they did they but they're using that to describe something else.

00:20:52.200 Free man of the land, maritime law.

00:20:55.120 These are all actually all of these words have meaning, but they've been reassembled like a Lego set into an into sort of using the language of lawyering into these alternative legal theories where I'm not a person.

00:21:09.260 I'm in, you know, I'm like it's I'm not a legal person and I don't accept this.

00:21:14.540 Like they have all this verbiage that sounds legalistic, but it's sort of gobbledygook.

00:21:20.160 And the belief in this alternative legal system has exploded over the last three years.

00:21:26.600 And my theory for that is sort of obvious.

00:21:29.980 People look at the legal system that they have been told their entire lives is the best in the world, the fairest in the world, the freest in the world.

00:21:36.700 We got to trust it. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it defines who we are as Canadians.

00:21:40.320 It'll protect your rights.

00:21:42.980 You know, the wheels of justice turn slow, but they do turn.

00:21:47.120 And the arc of justice, arc of, you know, it bends towards justice.

00:21:51.100 We've all been told believe in the law, believe in the courts, believe in our system.

00:21:54.560 And yet our system failed.

00:21:57.780 And so these good people who cannot fathom, cannot understand how everything broke at once, how the opposition parties did not oppose, how conservatives were not conservative, how the media became.

00:22:10.640 They went from skeptics to propagandists, how the doctors were either silent or silenced, how the police became enforcers of goofy mask rules and had measuring tapes and they shut down school playgrounds.

00:22:29.460 And so people looked at this madness and they thought, I must process this in a way that I mentally don't break.

00:22:38.800 I'm going to come up with a new legal system.

00:22:40.680 Like, I just think it has so utterly damaged people's belief in every institution, political, media, legal.

00:22:47.620 I mean, I know I used to be a real vaccine guy, not because I was obedient or loved Big Pharma.

00:22:55.020 I just sort of thought, well, of course they work.

00:22:57.160 Why would I, you know, you got to be a bit of a kook to, I mean, I took every vaccine that I was supposed to and then, you know, one or two more. 0.99

00:23:04.620 But now I sort of think, what was I, was I just sort of sold something to make a investment, you know, to pay off Pfizer's investment?

00:23:14.420 Like, even I and I, I don't think I'm a, you know, people disparage Rebel News, but I don't think we're wild eyed.

00:23:22.020 But now I look at, should I have trusted the public health experts as much as I did?

00:23:27.160 Should I trust all these institutions with broke, they broke at the same time, Bruce.

00:23:32.900 Every check and balance failed at the same time.

00:23:37.460 Sure, sure.

00:23:38.260 I've sometimes said that this is, you know, if there is any silver lining to this COVID debacle, it is that it has pulled back the curtain and we can see how things actually work or don't work.

00:23:53.940 I mean, it's sort of like the witch hunt against Jordan.

00:23:58.980 The only silver lining to that is that they are revealing themselves and how they really work.

00:24:04.860 And the same kind of discovery has happened during COVID.

00:24:08.380 And people have been shocked and appalled at at how things don't work the way they thought they did.

00:24:16.940 And it's a hard lesson to take in because you go through your life assuming that institutions work in a certain way.

00:24:23.960 You know, government departments, public health, courts, the legal profession, the medical profession and so on.

00:24:30.520 And then you discover that actually it's not that way at all.

00:24:34.380 It's a bit like I mean, it's a bit like waking up in the matrix and finding out that the world that you thought you lived in doesn't really exist.

00:24:43.380 And and you're right.

00:24:44.900 Some people have have gone searching for another legal theory upon which to base their life.

00:24:51.280 And these theories, I'm afraid I totally understand the motivation.

00:24:54.760 I understand what they're trying to get to.

00:24:57.380 I respect the the individual liberty that they seek entirely.

00:25:03.940 But but the the the theories that I have heard during this period, the common law theory that you're talking about and so on.

00:25:14.400 I mean, if you if you wandered into a courtroom and tried to argue these things, you'd get nowhere.

00:25:18.340 Yeah, I mean, of course, and there have been some cases that have gone to court and some judges have gone very deep in rebutting and refuting and condemning it.

00:25:27.800 I of course, it's it's a goofy counter theory.

00:25:30.440 But the fact that it's been embraced so widely shows a desperation, shows a desperation from people that they can't believe things happen.

00:25:40.020 And I mean, there's even someone who calls herself Queen Romana or something, you know, and and people follow her.

00:25:47.840 And I how can that be?

00:25:49.680 Well, because they're so disillusioned with the way things are and and who do they look to?

00:25:55.400 Remember, the truckers had no official backer.

00:25:58.220 No.

00:25:58.640 Right.

00:25:59.000 You know, I suppose Maxime Bernier was supportive of them and good for him, but he doesn't have a seat.

00:26:03.480 No political party, no media support.

00:26:06.540 They were really unfunded.

00:26:08.320 Grassroots people tried to fund them, but both crowd funds were shut down like it was the most organic, natural, authentic political movement, I think, in Canadian history.

00:26:17.400 Sure.

00:26:17.860 And it was, you know, George Orwell wrote in 1984, if there's any hope, it's what it lies with the proles.

00:26:23.520 Lies with the proles.

00:26:24.700 Ordinary working class people, not the fancy pants. 1.00

00:26:28.400 They are who saved us.

00:26:30.040 They really are.

00:26:30.760 It was straight out of Orwell.

00:26:31.820 It's a miracle that they were as peaceful as they were, that they were as diverse as they were, that they were as positive.

00:26:37.340 I was down there.

00:26:38.000 I couldn't believe people were singing O'Canada spontaneously.

00:26:40.840 There were a lot of F. Trudeau flags, but there were far more Canadian flags.

00:26:45.320 It was the most positive Canadian moment I have ever been to in my life and the most real one.

00:26:50.820 That really was providential.

00:26:53.360 That felt like a miracle.

00:26:55.820 It really was.

00:26:56.360 It was it was not a moment to miss.

00:26:57.960 It was a remarkable atmosphere of peaceful people who were angry, but also joyful.

00:27:09.240 It was an interesting combination of things.

00:27:12.560 But, you know, you know, trying to look for, again, the positive in the sea of negative.

00:27:17.200 I mean, one of the first things that has to happen in order for us to actually achieve a significant change in this country is for a critical mass of people to be discontented with the way things are.

00:27:32.800 And this day, I think I think we need to understand that this is not just a consequence of COVID.

00:27:39.880 COVID was the thing that pulled back the curtain.

00:27:42.240 But a lot of these things have have been around for a long time.

00:27:48.100 The trends have been there for decades.

00:27:49.880 We have worked ourselves to this moment, to this situation where our institutions work as they do now or don't.

00:27:58.560 And so we shouldn't be under any illusion that this was a blip and that things are just going to die down and go back to normal.

00:28:05.240 Normal. Normal was not all right.

00:28:07.040 Yeah.

00:28:07.400 And we didn't realize that until COVID came along.

00:28:10.900 Yeah.

00:28:11.080 It's just incredible.

00:28:12.940 And I see that so much in the media.

00:28:14.680 The media used to be so skeptical of power.

00:28:17.880 And I think part of it is that they've been slowly colonized.

00:28:22.720 And part of it is that they, you know, journalists are typically more government oriented, more liberal, more expert.

00:28:31.840 I mean, if you had an expert in a white lab coat versus a rough and tumble trucker, they know whose tribe they're with.

00:28:39.700 They're very classist and tribalist.

00:28:42.340 But I can't.

00:28:42.900 They are now.

00:28:43.580 They are.

00:28:43.920 They are now.

00:28:44.400 They didn't always pick that team.

00:28:46.640 There was a time when if you'd a trucker come along and had a had a had a beef against somebody in a white coat, they they would have heard him out and investigated to see what the story actually was and and try to, you know, seek to speak truth to power.

00:29:01.600 They don't do that anymore.

00:29:03.100 Yeah.

00:29:03.380 And now now they challenge those who challenge power.

00:29:07.840 They're enforcers.

00:29:08.760 I think part of that is the colonization of the media.

00:29:11.960 I think anyone who says that the multi-year and it's got to be over a billion dollars now in handouts and grants and bailouts and subsidies to the media, anyone who says that doesn't have an effect.

00:29:24.860 I think they're just ignoring human nature.

00:29:26.760 And I used to follow the Canadian Association of Journalists, Canadian Journalists for Free Expression, Amnesty International, Penn Canada, all these groups, all these alphabet soup of groups.

00:29:39.700 And they used to love sparring with the government.

00:29:42.540 I mean, how many times did Amnesty International and the Canadian Bar Association write about Omar Khadr and his civil rights versus how many times did they write about the civil rights of the unvaxxed? 0.93

00:29:53.520 And if you look at what the Canadian Association of Journalists has to talk about these days, it is only about one thing, getting more money from the government.

00:30:03.000 They've just completely abandoned any focus on journalism, let alone holding power to account.

00:30:10.000 It's all about rent seeking, as the economists would call it.

00:30:13.920 Sure.

00:30:14.660 Getting more money from Trudeau and getting Trudeau to shake down Facebook and Google for more money yet.

00:30:20.240 And sure, I mean, all that, all that is, all that is true.

00:30:24.180 All that is true.

00:30:25.040 But I'm not sure it's the whole story either, though, because there is an ideological part to this, which I think was showing itself even before this, this funding model came along.

00:30:38.160 I mean, many of the people who work in the mainstream media are, well, some of them are university graduates who have learned, essentially, an ideology in their studies.

00:30:51.920 And they think the world works in a certain way.

00:30:55.480 And one of the reasons that they don't challenge things that woke governments do is that they are woke.

00:31:02.700 And they are consistent with the agenda or the story or the narrative that they've been taught is the way things are supposed to be.

00:31:14.180 And that's just one other.

00:31:16.200 I mean, there's lots of threads in this, I think.

00:31:18.560 But that is one of the dynamics that we're up against.

00:31:23.060 An awful lot of people, especially in the chattering classes, are of one mind about their worldview. 0.62

00:31:32.480 And more and more governments are on board with that view.

00:31:37.220 A lot of corporations, big corporations are on board with that view.

00:31:40.500 Public institutions, universities, and the media itself.

00:31:43.700 They're all, I mean, it's becoming, I hate to use this word lightly, but this is the way totalitarian societies grow up.

00:31:54.560 Everybody's on the same page.

00:31:56.160 And nobody challenges each other about where it is that we're going.

00:31:59.860 And we have to go there all together.

00:32:01.380 And if you step out of line, like Jordan or like Amy or like one of the other people that we're referring to,

00:32:07.140 that we're alluding to, then you get the authority and the power of the state coming down against you because you must not do that.

00:32:16.180 That's the problem.

00:32:17.440 It's like you said before, you've broken the consensus.

00:32:19.480 The consensus may be wrong, but you must abide it.

00:32:22.320 How dare you step out of the consensus?

00:32:24.220 It's a famous picture of August Landmesser, the one Nazi with his arms folded in front of his chest who wouldn't see Heil.

00:32:31.420 And everybody has always said, oh, that would be me.

00:32:34.380 No, it would not have been because the last three years we had a daily test of if that would have been you or not.

00:32:41.620 And we saw it.

00:32:42.940 And it's shocking how fast and the demonization of people, the demonization of the other.

00:32:48.880 It took, you know, Hitler came to power in 33, but it wasn't for six years. 0.83

00:32:54.440 It took him six years to slowly and methodically transform the law and the culture of Germany to become Nazi. 0.83

00:33:02.600 It didn't happen in one year or two years.

00:33:05.440 But my God, how quickly we, and I'm not saying that lockdownism was Nazi murderous.

00:33:12.540 But I'm saying, look at how quickly the us versus them, the demonization, and frankly, there were some similarities.

00:33:21.940 There was a ghettoization.

00:33:23.260 There was a, I mean, listen, the Nuremberg Code, which was basically part of the verdict of the Nazi doctor's trial.

00:33:33.060 Our modern idea of medical ethics and consent came from the Nazis as a response and an antidote and a prevention to it. 0.87

00:33:41.600 And there's been nothing in our history since the Second World War that has violated that Nazi verdict in the Nuremberg Code. 0.72

00:33:49.680 Can I just, can we just talk about that for a sec though?

00:33:52.420 I mean, I'm not sure that's, I mean, the Nuremberg Code has been referred to a lot also in these times because people are grasping for things.

00:34:02.080 And it is true that it contains these principles that you refer to, no question.

00:34:06.620 But it's not enforceable law in Canada.

00:34:11.520 And we already have those principles in Canadian law.

00:34:14.200 We didn't need Nuremberg to insert those.

00:34:17.320 They were in the common law before then.

00:34:19.620 And if you, if you went to a doctor and the doctor treated you or operated on you without your informed consent, that would have been a tort.

00:34:28.220 You could have sued them.

00:34:29.160 And Nuremberg didn't change that.

00:34:31.500 So I think it's, I think it's a reflection of the dynamics that you were referring to earlier, which is people are appalled at what's happened in there.

00:34:39.800 And they're reaching for things.

00:34:40.920 And Nuremberg is not a bad thing to reach for. 0.96

00:34:43.460 I mean, it's a very good expression of the ideas that, that, that we're endorsing here.

00:34:50.080 But it's, it's not an independently existing piece of international law that you can go into a courtroom and say, here, you know, here's Nuremberg, you know, apply this.

00:35:00.760 That's, that's not.

00:35:01.500 I take your point.

00:35:02.040 I'm not saying it's, I don't say you would go to court and say, I, I apply under the Nuremberg. 0.94

00:35:07.040 And it's not even written as law.

00:35:08.800 It's basically principles, it, the Nazi doctors did atrocious things. 0.86

00:35:15.100 And because, and this is some of those incredible psychological experiments done in the 60s and 70s.

00:35:21.460 There was the, um, ash conformity test, if you know what I mean, where, uh, a group of people who all were pretending to be random people in the public, but all of them were in on it except for one actually naive person.

00:35:37.800 And they were told which of these two lines is the same length.

00:35:40.420 And on cue every once in a while, all of the people who were in on it would give the wrong answer.

00:35:47.200 And the ash conformity test would test if the one person who said, what are you talking about?

00:35:52.280 Those lines are obviously not the same length.

00:35:54.180 Would he go along with it just to fit in?

00:35:56.580 And I think like 35% of the time, the person would give the wrong answer, knowing it was the wrong answer, just to fit in.

00:36:03.280 That was called the ash conformity test.

00:36:05.620 Well, there's also the Milgram experiments.

00:36:07.640 Well, that's the one about the white lab coats.

00:36:09.500 Will you cause pain to someone, or at least think you are, because someone in a white lab coat said you must.

00:36:19.440 And, and it was terrifying.

00:36:21.900 And, and they had the white lab coat move on us for three years.

00:36:27.240 The white lab coat.

00:36:28.480 Top doctor says, the top, top doctor, is he the best in patient care?

00:36:33.400 He's the best researcher?

00:36:34.480 He's the best grades in school?

00:36:35.940 He's a government doctor.

00:36:37.100 He's not a top doctor.

00:36:38.200 He's a government doctor.

00:36:39.000 It's different.

00:36:39.540 Don't you think?

00:36:40.780 Mm-hmm.

00:36:41.260 I don't know.

00:36:42.560 Hey, listen, I want to ask you something.

00:36:44.560 Yeah.

00:36:44.780 You said that the silver lining here was that people were waking up.

00:36:48.560 Mm-hmm.

00:36:49.380 And let's call those people awake.

00:36:50.980 And let's use that word differently than woke.

00:36:53.700 Okay.

00:36:54.320 Yep.

00:36:55.140 Our side's awake.

00:36:56.120 The other side is woke.

00:36:58.240 I think the woke outnumbers the awake many times.

00:37:02.940 I think woke is now the new normal.

00:37:07.940 I think people who go to school are taught wokeness.

00:37:12.200 They don't even realize they're being taught something so flavorful and so ideological.

00:37:16.420 That's just normal to them.

00:37:17.820 It would be like...

00:37:18.980 I meet...

00:37:19.220 Yeah.

00:37:20.160 I meet young people and I talk to them about wokeism and sometimes they say to me, that's

00:37:25.620 the first time anybody has ever used that word in a derogatory sense.

00:37:30.760 Yeah.

00:37:32.340 You know, I was talking to a teacher a while ago and it was like I was saying to her something

00:37:40.060 like, it's okay to litter.

00:37:42.500 Like something that...

00:37:43.960 We all agree put garbage in the garbage can.

00:37:46.440 Like it's not...

00:37:46.980 It doesn't even feel ideological anymore.

00:37:48.900 It's just what you do.

00:37:50.740 And anyone who doesn't do that is not just antisocial.

00:37:53.360 They're wrong.

00:37:54.480 I mean, I think a couple of generations ago that wasn't the way.

00:37:57.400 And in some countries in the world it's not part of the culture.

00:37:59.980 But how challenging wokeness is like if you said, oh, I believe in littering.

00:38:05.500 People don't say that's the other point of view.

00:38:08.000 They say, that's just crazy.

00:38:11.060 I've never heard anything.

00:38:12.040 So you just sort of out...

00:38:13.680 That's not even a place on the political spectrum.

00:38:17.020 Like, I don't know if you...

00:38:19.200 I don't know if that point...

00:38:20.740 We can cut this.

00:38:21.860 Well, go ahead.

00:38:23.160 Sorry.

00:38:23.420 Let me try this.

00:38:24.780 This is the way I've put it recently.

00:38:26.380 I've suggested to somebody that...

00:38:29.820 Like, so talking about regulators and courts and lawyers and public officials, it's not

00:38:41.020 that they are completely close-minded.

00:38:42.920 It's not that they are insisting upon only one answer or that they don't tolerate debate.

00:38:48.540 I mean, that's not true.

00:38:49.720 But what has happened is this.

00:38:52.120 A progressive ideology has taken over.

00:38:55.780 And they believe in being reasonable and being neutral.

00:39:03.740 But being reasonable and being neutral means being progressive.

00:39:09.080 And if you are not progressive, then you are neither reasonable nor neutral.

00:39:18.200 But in fact, you are guilty of misconduct.

00:39:20.940 Yeah.

00:39:21.320 That's the degree to which this ideology is taking over.

00:39:27.620 And they went from the student unions to now the law societies and the College of Psychologists

00:39:32.820 of Ontario.

00:39:33.840 And soon they'll be in the Supreme Court itself if they're not already.

00:39:37.120 There's an old joke.

00:39:37.940 Sometimes attributed to Henry Kissinger, although it might not have been him.

00:39:42.320 It goes, university politics are so vicious precisely because there's so little at stake.

00:39:51.040 And that was once funny because it appeared to be true.

00:39:54.620 But now it turns out to be completely false.

00:39:57.240 That they were, in fact, dangerous after all.

00:39:59.580 And the seeds that they planted have grown and now have infiltrated everywhere.

00:40:07.800 And that's now the problem.

00:40:09.960 Hey, let me ask you about your project, Wrights Probe.

00:40:14.520 And you've got a website, WrightsProbe.org.

00:40:17.520 Tell me a little bit about that.

00:40:20.160 Yeah.

00:40:20.400 Wrights Probe is a division of the Energy Probe Research Foundation.

00:40:23.980 And Energy Probe has been around for decades.

00:40:26.640 I, in the early parts of my career, even before I started my career, I was reading Energy Probe

00:40:31.820 material.

00:40:32.380 It was a terrific think tank that brought very clear thinking, out-of-the-box thinking to

00:40:40.240 all kinds of questions.

00:40:41.300 They were perhaps Canada's first and maybe still only free market environmental organization.

00:40:46.460 And it has since, of course, branched out into many other subject areas.

00:40:51.020 But they established this division, Wrights Probe, which I'm now directing.

00:40:57.280 And we are a law and liberty think tank, I think is the best way to put it.

00:41:02.280 And we've basically come to fruition during this COVID period because so many awful things

00:41:08.540 were happening in terms of the incursion on civil liberties and so on that we thought it

00:41:14.120 was appropriate to try and bring some clear thinking to this moment in our history.

00:41:22.760 So what kind of things do you do?

00:41:25.120 Well, we write, we do this, we give interviews, we do videos, we work behind the scenes

00:41:37.100 in terms of consulting on litigation and challenges to COVID rules and so on, and in many other

00:41:48.020 ways that I won't go into.

00:41:49.160 But it's been a real whirlwind and a good one.

00:41:58.100 I mean, there are so many things to do and to look at.

00:42:01.620 It's like a game of whack-a-mole.

00:42:03.300 There are new issues arising so fast that you can't finish the one before, before you

00:42:07.240 get to it.

00:42:08.540 And they're all part of a piece, right?

00:42:11.340 I mean, COVID looks to be a separate thing.

00:42:14.280 You know, when you talk to various people, like you talk to doctors who are concerned

00:42:18.380 about the vaccines, concerned about the effects of lockdowns and so on.

00:42:23.340 And these are good people, clear thinkers, brave people who have stepped out of line,

00:42:27.900 and many of them sacrificed a lot, they know there's something that's not right about both

00:42:34.900 the vaccines themselves, about the way that the rules have been promulgated and enforced.

00:42:41.080 But many of them, many of them think, understandably, that the problem is a COVID problem.

00:42:48.580 It's a problem about COVID, a problem about the rules that were put in place to deal with it.

00:42:53.380 In other words, it was a policy mistake.

00:42:55.660 And no doubt, there were policy mistakes in there, for sure.

00:43:00.640 But it's a much bigger problem.

00:43:03.280 And once COVID goes away, if it goes away, it's going to be replaced by something along

00:43:07.780 the same lines, maybe with climate change, maybe something else.

00:43:11.180 But we are developing into a technocratic aristocracy, which is directed by a certain class of people

00:43:20.800 who know best what we should all do.

00:43:24.380 And the technology is coming along to a system in that enterprise.

00:43:28.520 And in a sense, Rights Probe exists, and it's not the only one, of course.

00:43:33.180 Rights Probe exists to try and push back against that trend and that narrative.

00:43:38.760 Well, I tell you, we can't have enough Rights Probes.

00:43:44.340 And of course, we mentioned the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom.

00:43:47.800 And of course, we helped create a group called the Democracy Fund, which has been battling.

00:43:52.620 I wish there were 10 groups like that, because some of the other alphabet soup groups that

00:43:56.800 I mentioned before have been absent.

00:43:58.440 They've just been hitting the snooze button during the crisis the last few years.

00:44:03.740 I got a question for you, and I don't want to take too much more of your time.

00:44:06.760 You've been very generous with your time.

00:44:08.760 But in 2016, Donald Trump surprised a lot of people by winning.

00:44:15.720 He certainly surprised Hillary Clinton, surprised the New York Times, who thought she had a 90

00:44:20.180 plus percent chance of winning.

00:44:22.060 And I think one of the ways he did it was social media.

00:44:24.500 In fact, I know that's how he did it.

00:44:25.920 And the social media companies were shocked by that and felt like they were collaborators

00:44:32.980 or they shouldn't have helped.

00:44:35.320 And so they had a crackdown.

00:44:37.380 There was a demonetization.

00:44:39.380 There was a change of the terms of service, the kind of censorship in the hope that that

00:44:43.920 would never happen again.

00:44:44.900 And that's very real.

00:44:48.000 Rebel News felt the sting of that.

00:44:50.560 Well, 2022 and the truckers and the convoy, I believe there was a similar thing that happened.

00:44:58.480 The entire media party, as I call it, the regime media attacked the trucker convoy.

00:45:05.680 And I could count the exceptions in a few fingers.

00:45:08.200 Rupa Subramanrya of the National Post.

00:45:10.860 And I'm almost done.

00:45:13.880 But it was social media.

00:45:16.160 On TikTok, on Twitter.

00:45:17.840 Rebel News was big into it.

00:45:19.880 True North.

00:45:20.920 It was all the little guys using social media that told the story.

00:45:24.820 And I know on the Rebel News side, we had 400 million views and impressions in February.

00:45:30.760 By the way, the CBC typically gets 320 million in a month.

00:45:34.860 So we were so large.

00:45:37.840 I think we managed to change the narrative.

00:45:40.560 When I say me, I don't just mean Rebel News.

00:45:42.540 Citizen journalists, social media, ordinary people with a camera. 0.89

00:45:46.380 And so at least that's my theory.

00:45:48.460 It was a grassroots organic group of, quote, nobodies, the proles in the trucks.

00:45:52.980 And then it was a group of, quote, nobodies with their camera phones that defeated the

00:45:58.100 CBC narrative, the global news narrative.

00:46:00.040 That's my theory.

00:46:00.860 And I feel like I had a vantage point to observe that firsthand.

00:46:04.340 And so now it's 2023.

00:46:07.120 And look what Trudeau has in the pipeline.

00:46:10.200 C11, C18, the old C36, the yet to be numbered Online Harms Act.

00:46:17.600 He's got not one but four proposed or in progress pieces of legislation, all of which would regulate

00:46:27.000 the internet, some of which are being called the Rebel News Act, which feel like they're

00:46:32.720 really trying to shut us down.

00:46:35.020 I feel like 2023 is going to be a year of censorship, whereas in 2016, 2017, it was done by the tech

00:46:41.740 companies themselves.

00:46:43.060 I think Justin Trudeau is coming to silence the small independent citizen journalists of

00:46:49.620 this country.

00:46:50.380 And I don't know if that's narcissism or paranoia on my part, but I truly believe it.

00:46:54.880 And I look at these bills and I can't help but say that it's right there in the blueprint.

00:46:59.680 What do you think of my theory that 2023 is going to be the year of censorship in Canada?

00:47:04.540 I don't think it's a crazy theory.

00:47:06.460 I mean, if you look at the drafts of the bills that they've put in place and the promises

00:47:13.740 that they've made to do as you described, I mean, they have promised to do exactly that.

00:47:19.140 So it's not like you are making up a conspiracy theory.

00:47:22.520 You're basically just reporting on what they've said themselves.

00:47:26.060 And what they've said themselves is dramatically terrible in the sense that in an earlier era,

00:47:37.020 you know, you just would not have believed them to be serious.

00:47:42.200 But this is where we've gotten to.

00:47:44.900 We've gotten to a place where a chunk of the Canadian public believes that they should not

00:47:53.800 be subject to misinformation.

00:47:56.720 And by misinformation, they presumably mean that information that hasn't been approved by

00:48:02.260 some kind of state authority.

00:48:04.180 I mean, that is the worst kind of society you can think of.

00:48:08.540 All bad societies have restrictions on speech.

00:48:11.700 It's it's it's it's the loss of the idea of liberty, whether it's with respect to speech

00:48:17.600 or otherwise, we have embraced the concept of a managerial state headed by people with

00:48:25.520 expertise and authority to tell us all how to behave.

00:48:29.000 And and, you know, that that idea applies to all of the problems you're talking about,

00:48:34.440 including the censorship.

00:48:35.520 Until we get rid of that core idea, until enough people say, you know what?

00:48:41.500 This this this is not working for me.

00:48:44.200 I don't I don't want to do this anymore.

00:48:46.160 I won't I won't accept the idea of of of having a state apparatus, having a nanny state apparatus.

00:48:54.360 That has as its primary purpose, the making of policy.

00:48:59.840 This comes down even to the idea of policy.

00:49:03.040 So policy.

00:49:05.480 Essentially, is a set of rules for people to follow.

00:49:08.860 And that today is what government does.

00:49:11.540 Government departments make policy.

00:49:13.560 And we have so many government departments and agencies and officials and and regulators.

00:49:19.700 They're all making policies.

00:49:21.360 And every one of those policies is a set of rules for other people to follow.

00:49:26.740 And and and the rules that you're referring to are about what you can and cannot do on social media.

00:49:32.460 This is it is intolerable and untenable.

00:49:36.580 But it's the path we're going down until enough people say.

00:49:40.740 Enough.

00:49:41.260 Yeah, I think that's going to be a battle.

00:49:44.440 And it really could be the end of Rebel News.

00:49:48.360 So the Online Streaming Act.

00:49:52.800 Section 9.11B, happen to know it.

00:49:56.260 Yep.

00:49:57.100 Would give Trudeau's CRTC the power to alter discoverability.

00:50:03.360 That's a fancy way to say when you type in Rebel News, do you get Rebel News or are you served up CBC, CTV and the Global Mail instead?

00:50:11.260 Right.

00:50:12.080 You can boost your friends and de-boost your enemies.

00:50:16.580 And so they don't have to ban Rebel News.

00:50:19.100 They just have to order YouTube, Facebook, Google, Instagram, Twitter to hide us because we are not a qualified Canadian journalism organization, which is one of their licenses.

00:50:29.960 That's the way to kill Rebel News, not to ban us.

00:50:32.960 A court, at least for now.

00:50:35.100 That's exactly right.

00:50:35.980 That's exactly right.

00:50:36.920 That's exactly right.

00:50:37.760 Because and so there's a parallel between that and what happened during COVID.

00:50:43.340 And the parallel is this.

00:50:44.260 This is this is this is the way administrative states behave.

00:50:48.120 They don't just go out and ban things directly because, you know, they have charter rights and so on to worry about.

00:50:54.740 They they have gotten to the practice of doing through the back door what they would have difficulty doing through the front door.

00:51:02.160 So it is exactly as you say, it's not like they're censoring you in the sense that no one can read you or or watch you.

00:51:10.060 It's just that they're adjusting things so as to reflect, you know, a preference for a certain kind of content.

00:51:16.620 And that's a much more difficult thing to challenge legally as well, because it's not direct.

00:51:22.840 It's very well, it's.

00:51:25.980 It's the year that will make us or break us, I think, Professor Bruce Party, what a pleasure to catch up with you.

00:51:31.920 Thanks for being so generous with your time.

00:51:33.440 Folks can follow you at rights probe dot org.

00:51:37.220 You're also published in the mainstream media, which I'm very grateful for.

00:51:41.560 I see you've written recently in the National Post.

00:51:43.920 I'm glad they still give you a forum there, along with Rupert Subramania and Barbara Kaye and a few other anti-woke voices.

00:51:50.920 So keep it up.

00:51:51.780 And thanks very much for spending so much time with us today.

00:51:54.540 Oh, thanks, Ezra.

00:51:55.640 Always nice to be with you.

00:51:56.800 Right on.

00:51:57.660 There you have it.

00:51:58.500 Dr. Bruce Party, Professor of Law at Queen's University.

00:52:02.200 Well, that's our show for today.

00:52:03.780 Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home.

00:52:08.100 Good night and keep fighting for freedom.

00:52:11.380 Keep fighting for freedom!

00:52:13.920 Shame on you, you sensorious bug! 0.85

00:52:17.400 Shame on you, you sensorious bug! 0.85

Rebel News Podcast - January 11, 2023

EZRA LEVANT ｜ The path we're going down is intolerable and untenable： an interview with Bruce Pardy

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