Conrad Black, a man who spent a lot of time in the UK, not just as a press baron but getting to know the political and constitutional leaders of that country, will tell us about Queen Elizabeth and her successor, King Charles III.
00:01:25.900Well, who better to talk about Queen Elizabeth and her successor, King Charles III, than our
00:01:33.740friend Conrad Black, a man who has spent much of his career and life and political life in
00:01:39.440the United Kingdom. He joins us now. Great to see you again. Thanks for having me, Ezra. What
00:01:44.340a momentous day. Yes. It's like you wake up every day of your life and there's a mountain
00:01:48.480out there, and then one day the mountain's gone and you realize it wasn't a mountain. It was
00:01:52.740a woman made of flesh and bone. She lived in 96, but she's gone. There is a feeling of
00:01:58.700loss, like a family member gone. I agree. I think there are scores of
00:02:02.280millions of people, and I'm one of them who didn't realize until she died what a fixture
00:02:09.120she was in our lives, you know? I mean, not that I knew her especially well or had seen
00:02:14.220her in recent years. That's not my point. It's just she was a fixture in the public life
00:02:19.240of the world, and particularly of countries she had an association with, like this one.
00:02:23.200You know, in an era of excess, of Kim Kardashian, of Meghan Markle, there she was a symbol of restraint
00:02:31.980and modesty. And if it's possible for a queen to be humble, I would say she did it. I mean,
00:02:37.540certain things are impossible for a queen to be. You can't be cheap as a queen, but she wasn't
00:02:42.860lavish beyond, you know, what a queen must be. Well, she used the instances of the British monarchy
00:02:49.540that had been translated down to her over centuries as they should be used, but she never implied or
00:02:57.740indeed personally embraced individual extravagance. So yes, there were the crown jewels and the royal
00:03:04.860collection and the palaces and so on, but she herself, as the country could detect, lived quite
00:03:11.060modestly. She liked driving her own Range Rover on her property with her corgis, and she didn't dress
00:03:16.620up if she wasn't expected to for a state occasion. And you're right that she managed to play it right
00:03:24.940down the center. She was not commonplace. She was the queen, but she was never pompous, never ceremonious.
00:03:32.540She had a good sense of humor, easy smile, but never frivolous or silly.
00:03:37.340Uh, and, and, and she managed this for 70 years without a single slip. That is the most amazing
00:03:43.480thing. Not once in 70 years did she embarrass or annoy, uh, anyone of the scores of millions of
00:03:50.760people that she served. Yeah. You know, um, there are people who were born into wealth or high station
00:03:57.000and it can drive the man. I mean, I think of Hunter Biden, maybe that's not a fair comparison,
00:04:01.400but his father was vice president. He had access to power and money and fame and he went the wrong
00:04:07.440way. Here is a woman who, as you point out in 70 years of service, it didn't get to her. She didn't
00:04:12.880become angry or, or frustrated. She didn't seem like she felt trapped. Like the, I can only imagine
00:04:19.860the temptations of that office of how it would transform you. She seemed genuine right to the end
00:04:26.360and maybe she was a very good actor about it, but she never seemed bored or condescending for 70 years.
00:04:33.260Never condescending. She may well have been bored at times, but she disguised that. That was her
00:04:38.040absolutely implacable sense of duty, which to be fair, she got from her parents. I mean, her father
00:04:43.940never wished to be king, never expected to be king, was pressed into the office when the powers that be
00:04:50.340in that country determined that his brother was not an appropriate person to be king. But he served
00:04:56.800and was a beloved king because he was completely selfless and he died early because of the burdens
00:05:03.120of that office in wartime and so on. And the queen inherited that. And I think it's fair to say that
00:05:10.800she was taken for granted, not disregarded, but taken for granted without particular enthusiasm
00:05:17.940for much of her reign, respected, well-liked, but, but not, not with a devoted or, or, or, um, what should I say? Uh, uh, uh, agile, adulatory following. But since the death of Diana and of the Queen Mother, she's steadily become, I think, uh, something to which the British public and to some extent other parts of the Commonwealth have become addicted to. And she became such an immense presence.
00:05:46.860And her, her, her longevity created a kind of cumulative respect. It's like a denim bursting. When she dies, everyone, everyone is agreed that, that she was really a splendid example of public service.
00:06:01.620I think she was slightly too young to be part of what has been called the greatest generation. Um, but she was alive and awake to the second world.
00:06:11.020She got the end of it. She was, uh, as you know, a mechanic in the home guard in the last year of the war. I might, I just want to say the great, the greatest generation was as described that it was because it had the greatest leaders. It was really because of the leadership of Roosevelt and Churchill and the military chiefs, MacArthur and Eisenhower and Montgomery and people like this, that, you know, we got through the depression, won the greatest, just war in history with, in the West, relatively modest casualties.
00:06:40.020Given the size of the war. And, and, and then, and then there was a tremendous prosperity after the war and, and, um, uh, but, but the, the leaders led and the people followed and we had, you know, as it was, it was a, it was a, the best generation in all respects at the, at the grassroots and at the top.
00:06:58.180Yeah. That's a good point. And she herself was a leader, even though she was a young leader. Yes. I only learned from Boris Johnson's wonderful eulogy, which we'll play in. Very fine. Um, that when she was 14, she gave a message to other 14, other young people. Yes. We'll get through this. And then the famous pictures of her being a mechanic.
00:07:16.180I mean, the idea of a princess getting mucky with oil and grease. And she still, I mean, right up to last week, she could still repair a car, you know, which I couldn't do. I don't know if you could.
00:07:26.500And, and, and I think that gave her an affection for soldiers and the British army forever.
00:07:32.100Look, she, she had it from when her father became the king. And if you look at the news film of her, of accompanying her parents in a naval review at Spithead, just outside Southampton, uh, in 1937 with then Lord Mountbatten, uh, and she, he would point out to her, uh, you know, the battleship Texas representing the U.S.
00:07:56.400and the Graf Spee representing the Germans and, and so on. And, and, uh, you, you could see that she was taking it all in and, and, uh, she had this wonderful combination of being serious without being, uh, either, either pompous or grim, you know?
00:08:14.580So she, she took it all in, but, but in a, in an amicable way.
00:08:20.180Yeah. You know, there was a sense of humor that she had. And of course, her late husband had a wonderful sense of humor.
00:08:25.620It was politically incorrect sometimes. I want to play for you a short clip that I just saw yesterday on British TV. Uh, I mean, it's almost too much to believe that an American tourist was in Scotland and encountered her and, and someone else and said, Oh, do you, Oh, you're from around here.
00:08:44.820Have you ever met the queen? Let me just play for you this clip. It's too far. I, I want to believe this is true. It's almost too much to believe this isn't true, but I can believe it here. Take a quick look at this.
00:08:55.780And one of the picnics I went out with her, we had a lovely picnic and a lovely chat. And then we went for a little walk, just the two of us. And normally on these picnic sites, you, you meet nobody, but there was two hikers coming towards us.
00:09:09.220And the queen would always stop and say hello. And it was two Americans on a walking holiday. And it was clear from the moment that we first stopped, they hadn't recognized the queen, which is fine.
00:09:18.540And the American gentleman was telling the queen where he came from, where they were going to next and where they'd been to in Britain. And I could see it coming. And sure enough, he said, my majesty, and where do you live?
00:09:31.140And she said, well, I live in London, but I've got a holiday home just the other side of the hills. And he said, well, how often have you been coming up here?
00:09:39.360Oh, she said, I've been coming up here ever since I was a little girl. So over 80 years. And you could see the clogs thinking. He said, well, if you've been coming up here for 80 years,
00:09:47.040you must have met the queen. And as quick as a flash, she says, well, I haven't. The dick here meets her regularly.
00:09:55.220So the guy said to me, well, you've met the queen. What's she like? And because I was with her a long time and I knew I could pull a leg,
00:10:01.480I said, oh, she can be very cantankerous at times, but she's got a lovely sense of humor.
00:10:06.920Anyway, the next thing I knew, this guy comes around, put his arm around my shoulder. And before I could see what was happening,
00:10:12.840he gets his camera, gives it to the queen and says, can you take a picture of the two of us?
00:10:17.040Anyway, we swapped places and I took a picture of them with the queen and we never let on and we waved goodbye.
00:10:23.720And then her majesty said to me, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he shows us photographs to the friends in America.
00:10:28.980And hopefully someone tells him who I am.
00:10:31.400She had a sense of humor. And I mean, you can see that her, her butler, aide, whoever that was said, well,
00:10:36.400she's cantankerous, but has a sense of humor. I think, I think you have to. And I, I don't think that she was self.
00:10:42.200There's a kind of humor that everyone loves, self-deprecating humor. I don't think a queen can or should be self-deprecating because to deprecate herself would be to deprecate her personification of the state.
00:10:54.640So I don't think a queen can mock herself in the same way.
00:11:00.060Yeah. But, but I, I think that she managed to be as funny as a queen should, should ever be.
00:11:06.740And I think her husband filled the gaps.
00:11:08.800Yeah. Yeah. No. And I agree. I mean, I, I was asked a few things, uh, uh, the day she died to reminiscences.
00:11:17.060No, the one example I gave about, if I may, was when I, I was the honorary colonel of the governor general's foot guards in the late nineties.
00:11:25.840And the queen was in Canada and she was giving us a, you know, a, a, a renewal of colors, you see.
00:11:32.160So it was a regimental event. It was, uh, it was, uh, the temperature was 99 degrees Fahrenheit in Ottawa.
00:11:38.480And, um, the, the, the uniform I had was for winter events, you know, and, and Canadian military uniforms aren't very stylish at the best of times.
00:11:47.780And, and, um, so I, there I was doing my best not to perspire. And she said, I'm not used to seeing you dress like this.
00:11:55.740I used to see her in London from time to time, just in the normal course, you know.
00:11:59.820And so I, I thought of, uh, when Elvis Presley met President Nixon and he was wearing a brown satin suit and Mr. Nixon said, you're rather flamboyantly dressed.
00:12:12.420So I took Elvis's line and I said, well, your majesty, you dress for your job and I dress for mine.
00:12:17.780He said, ah, but I have a better costumer.
00:12:21.960Yeah. You know, she's, she was quick with the quip. I mean, um, she certainly was, well, you know, I mentioned Boris Johnson's eulogy and Boris Johnson has his flaws, but the man has a way with words.
00:12:32.600Oh yeah. And then he was shabbily treated and he'll be back to you. Not necessarily as prime minister, but he'll be back as a force in the politics.
00:12:38.940Well, I mean, he's clearly, uh, still a young, young man in politics. And I think he rose to the occasion yesterday.
00:12:45.640I want to play and please stay with me for eight minutes. This is an eight minute clip and I, I do want to play it now and I want you to stick with it.
00:12:53.680And that won't be hard for you to do. It'll get your attention in the first 30 seconds. Watch this eight minute clip.
00:13:00.300And then when we come back, I'm going to ask Conrad Black about the new King. It's still not even, I'm not used to saying that, you know, all these things like the court of King's bench in Canada.
00:13:11.540And we go back to singing God save the king. Yeah. It's going to take a while to get used to that.
00:13:17.280Uh, so watch this wonderful speech in the house of commons by Boris Johnson. And don't you go away. Come right back here. Take a look.
00:13:23.880Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope the house will not mind if I begin with a personal confession. A few months ago, the BBC came to see me to talk about her majesty, the queen.
00:13:33.080And we sat down and the cameras started rolling and they requested that I should talk about her in the past tense.
00:13:42.360And I'm afraid I simply choked up and I couldn't go on. I'm really not easily moved to tears, but I was so overcome with sadness that I had to ask them to go away.
00:13:55.260And I know that today there are countless people in this country and around the world who have experienced the same sudden access of unexpected emotion.
00:14:11.220And I think millions of us are trying to understand why we are feeling this deep and personal and almost familial sense of loss.
00:14:22.240Perhaps it's partly that she's always been there, a changeless human reference point in British life.
00:14:30.260The person who, all the surveys say, appears most often in our dreams.
00:14:36.800So unvarying in her pole star radiance that we have perhaps been lulled into thinking that she might be in some way eternal.
00:14:45.600But I think our shock is keener today because we are coming to understand in her death the full magnitude of what she did for us all.
00:14:58.480And think of what we asked that 25-year-old woman all those years ago to be the person so globally trusted that her image should be on every unit of our currency,
00:15:16.420every postage stamp, every postage stamp, the person in whose name all justice is dispensed in this country,
00:15:23.700every law passed, to whom every minister of the Crown swears allegiance,
00:15:28.240and for whom every member of our armed services is pledged, if necessary, to lay down their lives.
00:15:35.800Think what we asked of her in that moment, not just to be the living embodiment in her DNA of the history and continuity and unity of this country,
00:15:51.600but to be the figurehead of our entire system, the keystone in the vast arch of the British state,
00:16:00.340a role that only she could fulfil because, in the brilliant and durable bargain of the constitutional monarchy,
00:16:10.860only she could be trusted to be above any party political or commercial interest,
00:16:17.800and to incarnate impartially the very concept and essence of the nation.
00:16:25.160Think what we asked of her, and think what she gave.
00:16:31.340She showed the world not just how to reign over a people,
00:16:36.780she showed the world how to give, how to love, and how to serve.
00:16:43.080And as we look back at that vast arc of service, its sheer duration is almost impossible to take in.
00:16:50.120She was the last living person in British public life to have served in uniform in the Second World War.
00:16:58.840She was the first female member of the royal family in a thousand years to serve full-time in the armed forces,
00:17:06.740and that impulse to do her duty carried her right through into her tenth decade to the very moment in Balmoral,
00:17:16.560as my Right Honoural Fenton said, only three days ago, when she saw off her 14th Prime Minister
00:17:23.320and welcomed her 15th, and I can tell you, in that audience,
00:17:29.820she was as radiant and as knowledgeable and as fascinated by politics as ever I can remember,
00:17:37.040and as wise in her advice as anyone I know, if not wiser.
00:17:45.220And over that extraordinary span of public service, with her naturally retentive and inquiring mind,
00:17:51.720I think, and doubtless many of the 15 would agree,
00:17:55.460that she became the greatest statesman and diplomat of all.
00:17:59.880And she knew instinctively how to cheer up the nation, how to lead a celebration.
00:18:08.600I remember her innocent joy more than 10 years ago after the opening ceremony of the London Olympics,
00:18:16.880when I told her that the leader of a friendly Middle Eastern country
00:18:20.480seemed actually to believe that she had jumped out of a helicopter
00:18:24.860in a pink dress and parachuted into the stadium.
00:18:31.660And I remember her equal pleasure on being told just a few weeks ago
00:18:36.400that she had been a smash hit in her performance with Paddington Bear.