Rebel News Podcast - December 06, 2024


EZRA LEVANT ｜ Trudeau wants to campaign against Trump, not fix Canada's porous borders


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

171.31158

Word Count

7,196

Sentence Count

426

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

10


Summary

Donald Trump has a plan to turn Canada into the 51st state, and the Canadian left thinks he's serious. Is he serious? Is he really planning to invade Canada? Or is he just trying to stir up trouble?


Transcript

00:00:00.240 Hello, my friends. Do you think Donald Trump means it when he says he wants to turn Canada into the 51st state?
00:00:06.420 I don't think so, but I think he is loving the freak out amongst the Canadian left who thinks he's dead serious.
00:00:14.540 I'll show you what he's done to poke at them a little bit.
00:00:18.020 But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to what we call Rebel News Plus.
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00:01:44.140 All right, here's today's podcast.
00:01:45.760 You're listening to our podcast.
00:01:59.300 Tonight, is Donald Trump really going to invade Canada?
00:02:05.400 It's December 5th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
00:02:07.860 You're fighting for freedom!
00:02:11.100 Shame on you, you censorious bug!
00:02:14.280 As you know, Justin Trudeau flew down to Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's residence in Florida,
00:02:29.360 which he's using sort of as his de facto White House.
00:02:33.460 His transition team is hunkered down there.
00:02:36.560 Howard Lutnick, the head of the transition team, also nominated to be Commerce Secretary.
00:02:41.100 That's where they're vetting people, bandying about names.
00:02:45.980 And Elon Musk is being hanging out there, too, along with RFK Jr.
00:02:49.660 It's sort of exciting to watch.
00:02:51.520 Trump has a very high work ethic.
00:02:53.480 He was campaigning for as much as 20 hours a day during the campaign,
00:02:58.440 and he really didn't take a single day off.
00:03:00.500 He went straight to work thereafter.
00:03:02.600 I think he's really moving through it at a quick pace.
00:03:05.340 And world leaders are calling him, and many are going to see him.
00:03:09.440 And Justin Trudeau did that, too.
00:03:11.900 He did that after, as you know, Donald Trump made a tweet or a post to his own Truth Social,
00:03:18.980 that's his own social media network, saying that if Mexico and Canada,
00:03:23.880 and he lumped the two countries together,
00:03:26.440 if Mexico and Canada didn't solve the border problem in two ways,
00:03:30.640 stop illegal migrants and stop illegal drugs,
00:03:33.440 both countries would be hit with a 25% tariff on all goods.
00:03:38.280 Now, that is a shocking thing to hear.
00:03:41.420 Mexico, within a day, got on the phone, the new president there,
00:03:46.420 and basically gave Donald Trump enough to say, all right, mission accomplished.
00:03:51.300 Mexico will no longer allow the mass migration, the caravans going through.
00:03:55.840 I don't know exactly what they said.
00:03:57.380 No one does.
00:03:57.920 We weren't on the call.
00:03:59.180 But it was enough for Trump to declare victory.
00:04:01.260 And the Mexican president sort of had her feathers slightly ruffled, but mission accomplished.
00:04:07.040 Can you imagine how that would flatten the Mexican economy?
00:04:09.820 But understand, Trump was doing that.
00:04:11.760 If you read Trump's book, Art of the Deal, he describes how he negotiates.
00:04:15.720 He makes outrageous demands to reset the conversation
00:04:19.120 and to make the settlement look very reasonable by comparison.
00:04:23.200 If you don't ask for everything, you're not going to get what you really want.
00:04:27.880 I mean, it's some negotiation tactics that I found very interesting in that book, Art of the Deal.
00:04:33.680 When he said that to Canada, I think a lot of Canadians thought,
00:04:37.340 oh, he's going to actually, he wants tariffs.
00:04:40.280 I don't think you need to be an expert in negotiations to see.
00:04:45.160 Trump doesn't want a 25% tariff on Canadian goods.
00:04:49.240 He wants us to do what he's threatening us, the tariffs, for.
00:04:54.340 He wants us to secure the border.
00:04:55.920 He wants us to stop migration.
00:04:58.540 And there are some terrorists who have been caught coming over the border.
00:05:02.320 And he wants us to stop the flow of illegal drugs
00:05:05.700 that originate sometimes in China and go through Canada to the States.
00:05:10.120 And the right answer is, sure, we will fix our borders.
00:05:14.800 We would do that for our own interests,
00:05:16.680 but happy to work with our American partners on that.
00:05:19.720 I mean, happy to fix the problem of Roxham Road.
00:05:23.600 It's amazing that Canada found a reason not to do so.
00:05:26.760 I think the reason that Justin Trudeau didn't get on the phone
00:05:29.780 and say to Donald Trump, sure, let's fix this.
00:05:32.240 I think the reason Trudeau didn't do that
00:05:34.800 is Trudeau's trying to figure out a way how to use this in the next election.
00:05:38.960 Can he campaign against Donald Trump in the upcoming election?
00:05:45.140 Because that would be a lot easier for him than campaigning against Pierre Polyev.
00:05:49.140 Pierre Polyev and the conservatives under him are in the 40s,
00:05:53.420 almost approaching the 50% mark in polls,
00:05:56.860 whereas Donald Trump is far less popular in Canada.
00:05:59.760 So if Trudeau could find a way to frame the entire next election
00:06:03.960 as standing up to Trudeau,
00:06:06.580 he would probably do a lot better than if it was standing up to Pierre Polyev,
00:06:10.220 who Canadians have really come to be comfortable with.
00:06:14.220 And not only is Donald Trump less popular than Polyev,
00:06:17.820 but it would put Polyev in sort of a pickle
00:06:19.740 because Polyev would probably feel compelled in some way
00:06:23.380 to denounce or disavow Trump
00:06:25.660 just so he wasn't, he tarred his Trump's, you know, puppet up here.
00:06:31.000 It's a really interesting thing.
00:06:34.000 But you can see that although Donald Trump hosted
00:06:36.780 Justin Trudeau down at Mar-a-Lago,
00:06:40.120 you can see that not everything was quite right.
00:06:43.120 For example, how odd it was
00:06:44.920 that Trudeau did not go down with his foreign minister, Melanie Jolie.
00:06:48.340 Don't you think that the foreign minister should come
00:06:51.340 and meet a foreign country, a foreign leader,
00:06:53.780 our most important ally militarily, economically.
00:06:57.620 But I think that Trudeau knew that Melanie Jolie
00:07:00.420 would just embarrass everybody and she didn't want him there.
00:07:03.640 She'll leave her, she'll be left for the unimportant files
00:07:07.140 like denouncing Israel.
00:07:09.760 Chrystia Freeland was not there either,
00:07:11.480 even though she's the de facto PM in so many ways
00:07:14.260 because they knew that Trump just despises her.
00:07:17.860 They brought Dominic LeBlanc,
00:07:19.300 who's probably the closest thing to a competent cabinet minister.
00:07:22.480 And of course, Trudeau's chief of staff was there too.
00:07:25.260 The photo, you know, of the dinner looked friendly enough,
00:07:28.220 but Trump, and Trump published it,
00:07:30.760 but he was not effusive in his praise
00:07:32.800 as he has been for other leaders.
00:07:35.460 And here's a clip of Fox News reporting
00:07:39.880 from two sources who were at the dinner
00:07:42.120 who were clearly American sources
00:07:44.260 because Canadians would never have leaked this,
00:07:46.600 that Donald Trump joked
00:07:48.840 that if Trudeau didn't get his act together,
00:07:52.880 Trump would turn Canada into the 51st state.
00:07:56.300 Here's how that was reported on Fox News.
00:07:58.880 And tonight we're getting some new details
00:08:00.860 about that Trump-Trudeau dinner
00:08:02.620 from two people who were at the table.
00:08:04.660 We are told that when Trudeau told President-elect Trump
00:08:08.440 that new tariffs would kill the Canadian economy,
00:08:11.660 Trump joked to him that if Canada can't survive
00:08:14.620 without ripping off the U.S.
00:08:16.240 to the tune of $100 billion a year,
00:08:18.720 then maybe Canada should become the 51st state
00:08:22.340 and Trudeau could become its governor.
00:08:25.440 Right.
00:08:27.500 But more on that detail with the panel.
00:08:30.480 Peter, thank you.
00:08:31.440 The minister making his way down south
00:08:33.660 to Palm Beach, Florida,
00:08:35.720 after the announcement that President Trump
00:08:39.120 was going to levy some 25% in taxes,
00:08:43.520 tariffs, if changes didn't happen.
00:08:46.080 Now, I want to read from this.
00:08:47.320 Peter Doocy referenced it, some amazing detail,
00:08:50.380 according to two people at that table
00:08:51.860 who heard the discussion.
00:08:53.320 President-elect Trump, while cordial and welcoming,
00:08:55.360 was very direct when it came to what he wants
00:08:57.260 from his counterpart to the North.
00:08:58.580 Trump said to Trudeau, paraphrasing here,
00:09:00.680 Canada has failed on the U.S. border,
00:09:02.360 allowing large amounts of drugs
00:09:03.600 and people across that border,
00:09:04.760 illegal immigrants from more than 70 countries.
00:09:07.340 But President Trump was even more animated
00:09:08.960 when it came to the U.S. trade deficit with Canada
00:09:11.900 that he put at more than $100 billion.
00:09:14.420 He said if Canada can't fix those things,
00:09:17.160 he will levy this 25% tariff on all Canadian goods
00:09:20.000 on day one when he gets back in office.
00:09:22.120 At which point, Prime Minister Trudeau says
00:09:24.660 he can't do that because it'll kill
00:09:26.360 the Canadian economy completely.
00:09:28.540 And Trump asked, so your country can't survive
00:09:30.560 unless it's ripping off the U.S.
00:09:32.040 to the tune of $100 billion?
00:09:33.100 Well, he said, Trump said,
00:09:36.400 maybe Canada should become the 51st state.
00:09:39.840 Prime Minister Trudeau nervously laughed,
00:09:41.700 as did others at the table.
00:09:42.900 But Trump went on saying, you know,
00:09:44.220 Prime Minister is a better title,
00:09:45.960 but you could still be governor of the 51st state.
00:09:48.680 Then someone at the table said,
00:09:49.920 Mr. President, that would be a very liberal state
00:09:51.920 to more laughter.
00:09:53.220 President-elect Trump said,
00:09:54.440 well, maybe we'll make two,
00:09:55.460 a conservative one and a liberal one.
00:09:57.020 But if you can't handle the list of demands
00:09:58.760 without ripping us off in trade,
00:10:00.580 that maybe you really should become a state or two
00:10:03.440 and you can be governor.
00:10:04.440 Now, if you have been paying attention to Donald Trump
00:10:07.440 in the last eight years since he was president
00:10:10.840 and then candidate and then president-elect,
00:10:13.660 you'll know that Donald Trump makes jokes.
00:10:16.820 He makes insults.
00:10:17.920 He is an entertainer.
00:10:19.480 And you don't even have to have followed him
00:10:21.120 the last eight years.
00:10:22.600 Follow him before that.
00:10:23.760 He was constantly doing media.
00:10:25.980 He was a star of the hit TV show,
00:10:28.280 The Apprentice,
00:10:29.200 and he has an entertaining style.
00:10:31.800 So I think even if you don't find that a funny joke,
00:10:35.740 I think you ought to know that that's a joke.
00:10:39.200 I mean, that's the thing about jokes
00:10:40.120 is you don't have to laugh at them.
00:10:41.540 But I think we can all acknowledge that that is a joke.
00:10:44.140 And the reason that's funny
00:10:45.700 and the reason Trump said it
00:10:47.580 is because obviously Trudeau is weak
00:10:49.940 and Trudeau has made Canada weak.
00:10:51.740 And Trudeau has put Canada in a position
00:10:53.900 with not a lot of bargaining power.
00:10:55.740 In fact, the one thing America most wants from Canada,
00:10:59.480 our number one export to them, is oil.
00:11:02.300 And Trudeau has basically declared war on oil,
00:11:05.300 is jacking up the carbon tax,
00:11:07.280 and through Stephen Gilboa,
00:11:09.360 seeks to have a production limit on the oil sands.
00:11:12.920 That's not in Trump's interest.
00:11:14.660 So I think that Trump looks down on Trudeau
00:11:17.220 and what he's done.
00:11:18.380 So he would make that joke.
00:11:19.680 The only reason that joke works
00:11:22.280 is because Trump disrespects Trudeau
00:11:26.620 and Trump sees that Canada is weak under Trudeau.
00:11:29.960 That joke wouldn't make sense with Mexico.
00:11:32.640 That joke wouldn't make sense with the UK or France.
00:11:35.740 The only reason that joke is plausibly funny,
00:11:38.660 if you think it's funny or not,
00:11:40.560 is because there's a tiny grain of possibility to it.
00:11:45.240 Of course, it's not for real.
00:11:46.880 Well, it just shows that Trump does not respect Trudeau.
00:11:50.620 What's amazing is the reaction
00:11:52.440 from the so-called smart people in Canada,
00:11:54.560 who not only think that Trump really wants
00:11:57.760 to put a 25% tariff on Canadian goods,
00:12:00.440 when in fact he's just using that as a stick
00:12:02.220 to get what he wants,
00:12:03.520 they actually are almost taking seriously
00:12:06.900 that Trump would invade.
00:12:08.420 Jean Charest, the former Premier of Quebec,
00:12:10.740 the former Tory leader,
00:12:11.980 and the sometime Conservative Party leadership candidate,
00:12:15.720 he actually tweeted,
00:12:16.980 oh, Donald Trump,
00:12:18.260 well, last time we had a war,
00:12:19.560 we beat you in 1812.
00:12:21.320 Now, I hope that Jean Charest was responding in kind,
00:12:24.260 just making banter,
00:12:25.660 but I think too many Canadians
00:12:28.260 are taking Trump literally.
00:12:30.200 They don't see the humor there,
00:12:31.660 and they themselves don't have a sense of humor.
00:12:33.800 And look at this picture
00:12:35.780 that Donald Trump published on social media
00:12:38.540 of him standing with a Canadian flag,
00:12:41.460 looking like he's about to invade.
00:12:43.660 So clearly he likes poking at
00:12:46.680 the Canadian political class.
00:12:49.600 I want to show you something
00:12:50.460 a little bit more serious, though.
00:12:51.940 We've been talking about banter
00:12:53.360 and negotiating tactics.
00:12:54.980 And really, if you have the time,
00:12:57.220 if you can pick up Trump's book,
00:12:58.640 The Art of the Deal,
00:12:59.860 if you read that,
00:13:00.960 you'll understand how he uses the media.
00:13:03.320 How he says things deliberately,
00:13:06.640 provocative to knock the other side
00:13:08.440 off their balance.
00:13:11.040 And he wrote that long before,
00:13:14.140 like decades before he was president.
00:13:16.400 It's worth a read.
00:13:17.520 And he's quite a character.
00:13:18.780 And if you don't understand
00:13:19.560 that he's a character,
00:13:20.340 I think you're going to miss
00:13:21.080 a lot of his points,
00:13:22.160 which a lot of liberals deliberately do.
00:13:24.760 But there's no doubt
00:13:25.840 this poses a challenge for Canada,
00:13:28.400 securing the world's largest
00:13:29.760 unsecured border.
00:13:31.140 And like I said,
00:13:33.940 I don't know if Trudeau
00:13:34.600 actually wants to do that
00:13:35.560 because I think he wants
00:13:36.240 to pick a fight with Trump.
00:13:37.640 But I want to show you this.
00:13:39.320 Here's a clip of a CBC
00:13:41.360 government journalist
00:13:42.700 talking to a pundit
00:13:44.660 who's sort of associated
00:13:45.760 with the Conservative Party.
00:13:47.180 And he's outraged
00:13:48.900 that Pierre Polyev
00:13:51.460 is not signing on
00:13:54.540 to Justin Trudeau's,
00:13:55.840 I'm not even going to call it a plan
00:13:57.280 because I don't think
00:13:57.940 Trudeau has a plan.
00:13:58.760 He's outraged
00:13:59.960 that Pierre Polyev
00:14:01.060 would put forward
00:14:02.620 his own ideas
00:14:03.720 about how to deal with Trump
00:14:05.960 instead of just
00:14:06.840 repeating Trudeau's ideas.
00:14:11.500 And if you watch this video,
00:14:13.280 it sort of feels like
00:14:14.260 the CBC has been given
00:14:16.320 its instructions
00:14:17.360 on what to say
00:14:18.640 or not to say too.
00:14:19.900 Here, take a look
00:14:20.520 at this really weird interaction
00:14:22.280 where the CBC government journalist
00:14:24.700 is mad at the leader
00:14:26.600 of the opposition
00:14:27.380 for opposing.
00:14:29.620 Take a look.
00:14:30.360 All the national leaders
00:14:31.580 get together
00:14:32.140 in the cabinet room.
00:14:33.000 That's where they met, apparently.
00:14:34.320 And they were all asked
00:14:35.320 to not say things
00:14:36.060 like the border is broken.
00:14:37.240 And in about 45 seconds,
00:14:38.560 Pierre Polyev says
00:14:39.220 the border is broken.
00:14:40.340 And then he leads off
00:14:41.240 question period
00:14:41.820 about the broken border.
00:14:43.000 Right.
00:14:43.300 This is exactly
00:14:44.060 the sort of thing
00:14:44.860 they're all being asked
00:14:45.920 not to do
00:14:46.440 because it helps
00:14:48.080 the U.S. news cycle
00:14:49.460 and helps the president-elect's argument.
00:14:50.940 He was making comments
00:14:53.220 about the border
00:14:53.720 well before that meeting.
00:14:55.100 Sure.
00:14:55.280 He had also done
00:14:56.440 an entire media availability
00:14:57.700 on Sunday
00:14:58.440 where he talked about
00:14:59.200 what he would do
00:14:59.720 to fix the border.
00:15:00.580 So he's not just coming out
00:15:01.680 and saying
00:15:02.140 the border is a problem
00:15:03.560 and it needs to be fixed.
00:15:05.020 He's also outlining a path
00:15:06.420 for how it could be fixed
00:15:07.900 and actions
00:15:08.380 that the government could take.
00:15:09.460 So it's not just
00:15:10.020 identification of a problem.
00:15:11.480 There's also a solutions roadmap
00:15:13.220 that he's identified.
00:15:14.220 I mean, the CBC,
00:15:15.600 we know they're in collusion
00:15:17.460 with the liberals,
00:15:18.420 but it's rarely this obvious.
00:15:19.600 Poliev was asked
00:15:22.640 not to say
00:15:23.700 we have a problem.
00:15:25.140 He was asked,
00:15:26.240 he was told
00:15:27.060 by Trudeau,
00:15:28.520 don't say
00:15:29.520 the border's broken.
00:15:31.880 Yeah, the border is broken.
00:15:33.740 I think even the liberals
00:15:34.860 acknowledge that.
00:15:35.680 I just got two words for you,
00:15:36.940 rocks and road.
00:15:38.280 And the outrage
00:15:39.480 that Poliev would ask
00:15:41.360 a question
00:15:41.940 about our broken border
00:15:42.920 in question period.
00:15:44.940 So the opposition leader
00:15:46.100 is opposing
00:15:46.740 and he's asking questions
00:15:48.780 in question period.
00:15:50.260 How dare he?
00:15:51.980 Says who?
00:15:53.120 Not, I mean,
00:15:53.860 you could,
00:15:54.480 I suppose a liberal
00:15:55.500 could make that argument,
00:15:56.860 but it wasn't a liberal MP
00:15:58.100 or a liberal pundit.
00:15:59.160 It was a government journalist
00:16:01.040 at the CBC state broadcaster
00:16:03.360 just because it helps,
00:16:05.340 it doesn't help Trump
00:16:06.540 to say our border is broken.
00:16:08.260 It helps Canadians
00:16:09.140 because we've got to fix
00:16:10.240 the broken border
00:16:11.080 for our own sake.
00:16:12.600 And yeah,
00:16:13.400 because it'll stop
00:16:14.240 the 25% tariffs hitting us.
00:16:16.160 Just incredible.
00:16:16.960 If you think that this
00:16:19.020 is the worst thing in Canada
00:16:20.100 right now,
00:16:20.600 it's not.
00:16:21.180 Coming up next,
00:16:22.140 my talk with Dan Kelly
00:16:23.120 of the Canadian Federation
00:16:24.200 of Independent Business
00:16:25.120 about how Trudeau's gimmicky
00:16:27.140 $250 tax cut
00:16:29.420 is actually costing more
00:16:31.100 than it saves.
00:16:31.800 That's next.
00:16:32.280 Pierre Polyev always talks
00:16:45.200 about calling a carbon tax election.
00:16:47.440 It's clear he wants
00:16:48.180 to make affordability
00:16:49.780 a centerpiece of his campaign.
00:16:52.340 And it's done quite well
00:16:53.520 for him over the past year.
00:16:55.520 Almost every single poll
00:16:56.820 has shown him
00:16:57.400 with about a 20% lead.
00:16:59.680 And when you ask Canadians
00:17:00.700 what they care about,
00:17:01.860 affordability is a big one.
00:17:04.100 Luxury concerns
00:17:05.420 that people can afford
00:17:06.940 when their bank accounts
00:17:08.040 are full,
00:17:08.480 like global warming issues.
00:17:10.260 Those have fallen
00:17:11.180 by the wayside
00:17:11.980 as housing
00:17:13.080 and groceries
00:17:14.000 take the lead.
00:17:16.340 So it's not that surprising
00:17:18.060 that as Justin Trudeau
00:17:19.280 looks at a very likely
00:17:20.860 2025 election,
00:17:22.940 he's seeking to win back
00:17:24.640 some of that ground.
00:17:25.980 And indeed,
00:17:26.480 he has announced,
00:17:27.880 and Chrystia Freeland
00:17:28.720 has announced,
00:17:29.980 a GST holiday
00:17:31.620 around the Christmas season.
00:17:33.720 And when Pierre Polyev
00:17:35.620 said that that was not
00:17:36.800 something he would support,
00:17:37.920 the Trudeau liberals
00:17:39.040 pivoted saying,
00:17:39.880 uh-huh,
00:17:40.600 he's not really in favor
00:17:42.020 of tax cuts now,
00:17:43.120 is he?
00:17:43.500 So far,
00:17:44.320 that messaging has not
00:17:45.560 connected with Canadian voters.
00:17:48.120 But put that aside,
00:17:49.580 is it good policy?
00:17:51.320 Joining us now
00:17:52.080 to talk about tax cuts
00:17:54.060 in general
00:17:54.720 and the government's
00:17:55.780 fiscal policy
00:17:56.560 is Dan Kelly,
00:17:58.400 who's the president
00:17:59.060 of the Canadian Federation
00:18:00.240 of Independent Business.
00:18:02.520 You can follow him
00:18:03.640 at cfib.ca
00:18:06.200 or on Twitter.
00:18:07.100 Dan, great to see you.
00:18:07.780 Thanks for coming on the show.
00:18:09.340 Good to be with you, Ezra.
00:18:10.540 Well, it's our pleasure.
00:18:12.040 You bring a lot of expertise
00:18:13.040 with you.
00:18:13.600 And of course,
00:18:14.000 you're in touch
00:18:14.500 with independent business,
00:18:15.940 which typically means
00:18:17.000 small and medium-sized business.
00:18:19.540 And one of the things
00:18:20.640 I've heard is
00:18:21.380 just handling
00:18:22.540 these GST,
00:18:23.520 GST changes
00:18:24.680 is going to be
00:18:25.580 a real paperwork burden
00:18:27.740 for small businesses.
00:18:29.400 Is that the case?
00:18:30.340 What are your members
00:18:30.900 telling you?
00:18:31.620 First of all,
00:18:32.100 before you answer that,
00:18:32.780 can you sum up
00:18:34.280 the changes
00:18:34.920 that Trudeau has brought in
00:18:36.260 and then tell us
00:18:37.400 how businesses
00:18:38.180 are reacting to it?
00:18:40.120 Yeah, look,
00:18:40.660 this is a two-month holiday
00:18:41.880 from December 14th
00:18:43.500 to February 15th.
00:18:44.940 It removes the GST,
00:18:46.780 zero rates it effectively.
00:18:48.380 And in HST provinces,
00:18:49.820 where the combined
00:18:51.060 federal-provincial tax
00:18:52.120 is 13% to 15%,
00:18:54.000 it gets rid of the whole thing
00:18:55.780 for a two-month period.
00:18:57.860 It's only on a few goods.
00:19:00.540 So it is on restaurant meals
00:19:02.320 and some of the grocery products
00:19:04.300 that still carry GST,
00:19:05.660 packaged goods
00:19:06.360 and snack foods,
00:19:07.360 drinks, for example,
00:19:08.880 beer, wine,
00:19:10.020 and some coolers,
00:19:12.520 children's books,
00:19:13.340 children's toys,
00:19:14.180 even the Christmas tree.
00:19:15.760 That's it.
00:19:17.020 And so for that,
00:19:19.300 small and medium-sized businesses
00:19:20.660 are now scrambling
00:19:21.840 with two weeks' notice
00:19:23.700 to try to temporarily
00:19:25.720 remove the GST
00:19:27.040 from those items
00:19:28.040 and only those items
00:19:29.500 in order to keep compliant
00:19:31.600 with CRA rules.
00:19:33.700 And that's where
00:19:34.300 the rub comes in.
00:19:35.180 Small business owners
00:19:35.880 don't mind tax reductions,
00:19:38.240 but I find myself
00:19:41.220 in the unusual position
00:19:43.340 of lobbying against
00:19:44.400 an actual reduction in tax.
00:19:46.080 That's not our issue with it.
00:19:47.760 The administrative issue
00:19:48.980 for this temporary tax reduction
00:19:51.000 is the major problem.
00:19:53.100 So just as a couple of examples,
00:19:55.020 if you go and you want
00:19:56.180 to buy Lego,
00:19:57.140 certain Lego sets
00:19:58.320 are GST-exempt,
00:19:59.600 other ones not.
00:20:00.500 What would be the difference?
00:20:01.700 Why would it apply
00:20:02.340 to some and not others?
00:20:05.160 Apparently,
00:20:05.840 it is if the Lego set
00:20:06.880 is oriented at children,
00:20:09.300 it is going to be GST-exempt.
00:20:11.360 So that,
00:20:12.020 we're apparently to go
00:20:12.960 with what's on the manufacturer's
00:20:14.620 suggested age group
00:20:16.540 for the particular toy.
00:20:18.380 Model planes
00:20:19.140 that are oriented at kids
00:20:20.740 are GST-exempt,
00:20:22.080 at adults are not.
00:20:24.480 We have all sorts
00:20:26.060 of administrative questions
00:20:27.460 pouring into our offices
00:20:29.080 across the country.
00:20:30.600 A gift basket
00:20:31.440 that includes some food,
00:20:33.000 but say a coffee mug in it.
00:20:35.180 What's that?
00:20:35.920 How is that going to be taxed?
00:20:37.600 These are judgment calls
00:20:38.960 that business owners
00:20:39.660 are having to make.
00:20:40.640 A hobby store in Calgary
00:20:42.500 said that they have
00:20:43.320 3,500 items
00:20:44.560 and they have to go through
00:20:46.300 every single one
00:20:47.980 and make judgment calls
00:20:49.720 as to whether
00:20:50.360 it remains taxable
00:20:51.620 or is not taxable
00:20:53.320 during this period of time.
00:20:54.460 And if they make a mistake,
00:20:55.640 Ezra,
00:20:56.140 they're going to have
00:20:56.840 an audit
00:20:57.480 from the Canada Revenue Agency
00:20:58.840 in March or April
00:20:59.860 demanding back taxes,
00:21:01.940 penalties, and interest.
00:21:03.160 This is nuts.
00:21:05.020 You know,
00:21:05.400 I understand the point
00:21:06.620 because of course
00:21:07.280 everyone wants lower taxes,
00:21:08.600 but if it's just
00:21:09.080 for a two month,
00:21:09.980 I'm going to call
00:21:10.800 that a gimmick
00:21:11.520 because if it was real,
00:21:13.360 it would be permanent.
00:21:14.500 I'm sure a lot of companies
00:21:16.740 had paperwork issues
00:21:18.660 when Harper took the GST
00:21:20.240 down from 7% to 5%,
00:21:22.440 but they knew
00:21:23.100 it was a one-time thing.
00:21:24.520 It was fairly straightforward
00:21:25.720 and I think they liked
00:21:27.500 the fact it was a tax cut.
00:21:29.300 This is a two month blip
00:21:30.820 and, you know,
00:21:32.880 I go to a dollar store
00:21:34.600 in my neighborhood occasionally
00:21:35.720 and I can just imagine
00:21:37.460 the hundreds and hundreds
00:21:38.880 and by the time
00:21:40.600 you do it
00:21:41.660 and it's starting
00:21:42.720 in less than two weeks
00:21:43.960 and by the time
00:21:44.880 you do it,
00:21:46.180 it's almost time
00:21:46.840 to undo it.
00:21:48.020 That is no gift
00:21:49.640 to anyone.
00:21:51.720 No,
00:21:52.100 and look,
00:21:53.120 for these retailers,
00:21:54.240 they've also announced
00:21:55.200 this just a couple
00:21:56.520 of days ago.
00:21:57.440 The legislation,
00:21:58.280 for goodness sakes,
00:21:58.800 isn't even passed.
00:21:59.800 I was at the Senate
00:22:00.440 Committee last night
00:22:01.300 reviewing the legislation,
00:22:03.460 for goodness sakes,
00:22:04.200 and here we are
00:22:06.180 in the busiest
00:22:07.600 possible season
00:22:08.760 for small business owners
00:22:10.760 where it's make it
00:22:11.640 or break it.
00:22:12.320 If they don't do well
00:22:13.220 during the Christmas
00:22:13.980 and holiday season,
00:22:15.480 many of them
00:22:15.980 are just done
00:22:16.860 and so they are now
00:22:18.560 having to put in place
00:22:20.680 this complicated system.
00:22:21.900 In fact,
00:22:22.580 it even gets worse
00:22:23.380 than that.
00:22:24.340 They have to continue
00:22:25.220 to charge the tax
00:22:26.280 until December 13th
00:22:27.740 when the store closes
00:22:28.600 so your dollar store
00:22:29.440 has to do that,
00:22:30.240 say,
00:22:30.400 until 9 p.m.
00:22:31.520 on December 13th,
00:22:32.600 Friday night.
00:22:33.120 Saturday morning,
00:22:34.340 they have to have
00:22:35.140 in place
00:22:35.640 the proper system
00:22:36.940 to make sure
00:22:37.520 that they're not
00:22:38.160 charging GSD
00:22:39.200 or HSD
00:22:39.820 at that moment
00:22:40.720 and as a result,
00:22:42.520 they have to,
00:22:43.040 that evening,
00:22:44.060 do the computer programming
00:22:45.360 to make that happen
00:22:46.720 but they can't do it
00:22:47.500 beforehand
00:22:47.900 otherwise they will have
00:22:49.420 not charged the tax
00:22:50.580 when they are supposed to.
00:22:52.160 These are judgment calls.
00:22:53.540 The CRA is not even
00:22:54.800 in a position
00:22:55.340 to give guidance
00:22:56.220 on most issues.
00:22:57.720 We've got a litany
00:22:59.560 of examples
00:23:00.320 of complex situations.
00:23:02.560 As you said,
00:23:03.280 when the GSD
00:23:03.780 was first introduced,
00:23:04.820 there was a,
00:23:05.300 I mean,
00:23:05.440 that's how we ended up
00:23:06.080 with the six donut rule
00:23:07.220 where you pay GSD
00:23:08.560 if you buy five
00:23:09.720 but you don't pay GSD
00:23:10.860 if you pay six.
00:23:11.600 Well,
00:23:11.820 at least you only had
00:23:12.520 to do that one time.
00:23:13.900 You didn't have to
00:23:14.480 switch it on,
00:23:15.420 switch it off
00:23:16.200 on a dime here
00:23:17.420 as we are right now.
00:23:19.120 You know,
00:23:20.660 I mean,
00:23:21.500 when I go into shops
00:23:22.760 these days,
00:23:23.260 I have a different mindset.
00:23:24.840 I feel very sympathetic
00:23:26.680 with the entrepreneurs
00:23:28.300 and I feel sympathetic
00:23:29.580 for the,
00:23:30.600 typically,
00:23:31.240 the young cashiers
00:23:32.780 who were,
00:23:33.400 because all I can think of
00:23:34.380 is how do you live
00:23:35.800 in these expensive
00:23:37.060 housing markets
00:23:38.760 if you're making,
00:23:40.340 like I just,
00:23:41.200 I look at a business,
00:23:42.740 I look at a restaurant
00:23:43.580 different than I probably
00:23:44.780 did 10 years ago.
00:23:46.080 Maybe it's just
00:23:46.600 my own experience.
00:23:47.740 And my point
00:23:48.640 for mentioning that,
00:23:49.400 Dan,
00:23:49.620 is
00:23:49.920 was there anyone
00:23:52.680 at the cabinet table
00:23:54.180 who has done
00:23:56.180 the hard work?
00:23:56.980 Like,
00:23:57.620 I think of,
00:23:58.780 I mean,
00:23:58.980 just think of a corner store,
00:24:00.100 think of a convenience store,
00:24:01.200 think of a gas station attendant.
00:24:02.820 You're on your feet
00:24:04.120 all day.
00:24:05.260 You're making 30 cents here,
00:24:07.200 a dollar here.
00:24:07.980 You know,
00:24:08.180 a long time ago,
00:24:09.040 I got to know
00:24:09.820 the Ontario Korean
00:24:11.240 Businessmen's Association.
00:24:12.680 I actually worked
00:24:13.040 for them briefly,
00:24:13.560 I should disclose.
00:24:15.100 They work their tushes off
00:24:16.940 364 days a year.
00:24:18.540 Maybe they close
00:24:19.340 on Christmas.
00:24:20.520 And they're making
00:24:21.380 a buck here,
00:24:21.980 a few pennies there.
00:24:23.640 And,
00:24:23.960 and I wonder
00:24:25.680 if there is anyone
00:24:26.800 from that world,
00:24:28.760 Dan,
00:24:29.680 who was around
00:24:30.660 the decision-making table
00:24:31.860 because it sounds
00:24:32.720 like it was a bunch
00:24:33.500 of people
00:24:33.960 whose only life experience
00:24:35.640 is online
00:24:37.340 or working
00:24:39.240 for an NGO
00:24:40.200 or a government agency.
00:24:42.140 No one has had
00:24:43.380 a job
00:24:43.840 where they're
00:24:44.220 on their feet
00:24:44.940 12,
00:24:46.220 14 hours a day
00:24:47.280 making money
00:24:48.300 30 cents at a time,
00:24:49.460 which is what it's like
00:24:50.100 in the convenience store business.
00:24:52.100 And I'm just thinking
00:24:52.800 a dollar store,
00:24:53.600 convenience store,
00:24:54.340 and restaurants.
00:24:55.300 And I don't know,
00:24:57.480 Dan,
00:24:57.760 is there anyone
00:24:58.840 within Trudeau's
00:25:00.380 advisors
00:25:01.300 or his cabinet
00:25:02.100 who has ever lived
00:25:03.120 the life
00:25:03.720 of a small business person?
00:25:06.020 It is hard to find.
00:25:07.680 I can tell you
00:25:08.680 that this was designed
00:25:09.920 with political calculations
00:25:11.320 in mind
00:25:12.040 and not much else.
00:25:13.640 This was designed
00:25:14.320 to curry the support
00:25:15.220 of the NDP
00:25:15.820 because the NDP
00:25:16.840 had put forward
00:25:17.560 a list of items
00:25:18.860 to permanently
00:25:19.780 exempt GST,
00:25:20.960 HST from
00:25:21.780 and that was
00:25:23.560 the main impetus
00:25:25.020 behind this
00:25:26.320 particular decision.
00:25:27.840 Look,
00:25:28.200 again,
00:25:28.900 small businesses
00:25:29.460 don't mind
00:25:30.220 trying to help
00:25:30.860 their customers
00:25:31.520 save some money.
00:25:33.600 But to all
00:25:34.840 of the administrative
00:25:35.800 costs
00:25:36.440 to put this in place
00:25:37.900 are going to exceed
00:25:38.900 for many
00:25:39.360 the value
00:25:40.060 of any additional
00:25:40.940 dollars
00:25:41.400 their customers
00:25:42.060 may be able
00:25:42.600 to spend
00:25:43.060 in these businesses.
00:25:44.400 I've talked
00:25:44.780 to restaurant owners
00:25:45.620 that were almost
00:25:46.740 in tears.
00:25:47.920 One guy
00:25:48.460 was going through
00:25:49.480 every bottle of beer
00:25:50.700 because the way
00:25:51.600 he read the bulletin
00:25:52.600 said that it was
00:25:53.420 beer, wine,
00:25:54.520 and mixed drinks
00:25:55.600 that contained
00:25:56.540 less than 7% alcohol.
00:25:58.220 So he was trying
00:25:58.780 to figure out
00:25:59.320 how to,
00:25:59.820 for each beer,
00:26:00.980 determine what button
00:26:01.960 to press
00:26:02.440 to exempt the GST
00:26:03.460 if it had under 7
00:26:04.700 or what button
00:26:05.700 to press if it had over
00:26:06.700 only for then
00:26:08.120 me to clarify
00:26:09.040 just because
00:26:09.660 I've been dealing
00:26:10.880 with this for a couple
00:26:11.820 of days now
00:26:12.440 to say,
00:26:13.320 no,
00:26:13.540 it's all beer,
00:26:14.520 all wine,
00:26:15.240 and it's only
00:26:15.760 spirit coolers
00:26:16.780 under 7%,
00:26:17.560 but it kind
00:26:18.680 of illustrated
00:26:19.300 the point
00:26:19.880 that for business owners
00:26:21.400 that are trying
00:26:22.080 to do what they can,
00:26:23.160 they want to stay
00:26:24.140 in compliance
00:26:24.660 with government,
00:26:25.140 they don't mind
00:26:25.940 trying to help
00:26:26.500 their customers
00:26:27.060 save a buck or two,
00:26:28.660 but this is not
00:26:29.960 the way.
00:26:30.480 It is a hot mess
00:26:31.540 and there are
00:26:32.560 a thousand better ways
00:26:34.160 to reduce
00:26:34.840 the burden
00:26:35.920 on Canadians
00:26:36.820 than a temporary
00:26:38.060 two-month holiday.
00:26:39.040 For one thing,
00:26:40.360 get rid of the
00:26:40.980 carbon tax
00:26:42.220 that is going up
00:26:43.820 by 19%
00:26:44.820 six weeks
00:26:45.940 after this holiday
00:26:47.500 ends.
00:26:48.020 Like,
00:26:48.460 we're lowering
00:26:49.280 prices for two months
00:26:50.680 and then permanently
00:26:52.240 raising taxes
00:26:53.740 six weeks
00:26:55.120 after the holiday
00:26:56.000 ends.
00:26:56.540 Like that,
00:26:57.320 for retailers,
00:26:58.820 for businesses
00:26:59.520 in general,
00:27:00.680 this is a mess.
00:27:01.880 It's such a tease
00:27:03.380 to say for two months
00:27:04.600 we'll give you
00:27:05.060 this very complicated,
00:27:07.140 very narrow
00:27:07.960 group of
00:27:08.960 discounts and breaks.
00:27:10.920 And you're so right
00:27:11.920 that six weeks
00:27:12.940 late you got whiplash
00:27:13.900 because carbon taxes
00:27:14.820 go up,
00:27:15.700 which,
00:27:15.900 I mean,
00:27:16.300 Polyev has turned
00:27:17.020 it into a talking
00:27:17.840 point,
00:27:18.180 but it's true.
00:27:19.160 Anything that moves,
00:27:20.860 if it moves,
00:27:21.840 if it keeps you warm
00:27:23.240 in the winter
00:27:24.360 or cool in the summer,
00:27:25.360 it's going to be
00:27:26.640 using carbon.
00:27:27.700 And frankly,
00:27:28.160 that's the point
00:27:28.800 of the carbon tax.
00:27:29.560 If you ask them
00:27:30.740 why they do it,
00:27:31.760 it's,
00:27:32.360 you know,
00:27:32.580 I don't know
00:27:33.060 if you remember
00:27:33.480 Stefan Dion
00:27:34.220 15 or so years ago,
00:27:36.020 he used the phrase,
00:27:36.880 you know,
00:27:37.600 carbon shift
00:27:38.420 or green shift
00:27:39.220 to try and change
00:27:40.540 your social behavior.
00:27:41.400 So if you actually
00:27:42.060 say,
00:27:43.140 well,
00:27:43.260 how is the carbon tax
00:27:44.500 going to save the world?
00:27:45.480 It's designed
00:27:46.180 to sort of push you
00:27:47.200 away from certain behaviors
00:27:48.780 as in keeping warm
00:27:50.960 in the winter,
00:27:51.460 moving things around.
00:27:52.400 So they don't deny
00:27:54.200 that not only
00:27:56.120 is the tax painful,
00:27:57.760 they say that
00:27:58.700 that is the point
00:27:59.800 of it to get you
00:28:00.680 to stop doing
00:28:01.580 those things.
00:28:02.620 I think,
00:28:03.240 I don't know,
00:28:03.840 I just wish
00:28:04.740 we could reconsider that
00:28:06.300 because like I said
00:28:07.400 a few moments ago,
00:28:09.460 I think that
00:28:10.320 environmentalism
00:28:11.680 and making,
00:28:13.500 and Trudeau gave
00:28:14.160 an interview recently
00:28:14.840 where he says
00:28:15.360 people should prioritize
00:28:16.600 climate change
00:28:17.540 in their life
00:28:18.080 over meat and potatoes issues.
00:28:20.360 I think that is
00:28:21.380 out of sync with the times.
00:28:22.840 I think there's
00:28:23.380 real poverty out there
00:28:24.740 and I just don't know
00:28:26.000 if he can swallow
00:28:27.780 his pride
00:28:28.380 and,
00:28:28.740 you know,
00:28:29.660 delay that carbon tax hike.
00:28:31.320 I think he's so dead set
00:28:32.560 on it ideologically
00:28:33.560 and he's not the kind
00:28:34.820 of guy who blinks.
00:28:36.340 I don't know.
00:28:36.800 I'm just very sad
00:28:38.700 about this
00:28:39.100 and you've told me
00:28:39.700 things that are
00:28:41.020 sort of laughable
00:28:42.160 like you go,
00:28:42.920 ha,
00:28:43.420 because they're shocking
00:28:44.320 but there's no comedy
00:28:45.840 here at all.
00:28:46.920 These are livelihoods.
00:28:49.580 It is.
00:28:50.200 Look,
00:28:50.380 behind every counter
00:28:51.200 of a small business
00:28:52.620 is somebody
00:28:53.220 just trying to make a living.
00:28:54.520 Somebody that's trying
00:28:55.340 to do the right thing,
00:28:56.600 pay their employees,
00:28:57.900 keep the lights on
00:28:59.100 and build some wealth
00:29:00.820 for their family
00:29:01.380 for the future
00:29:02.040 but it has been,
00:29:03.680 it has been really,
00:29:05.120 really tough
00:29:05.800 over the last number
00:29:06.720 of years.
00:29:07.160 We are at the point now
00:29:08.380 where only a quarter
00:29:10.020 of Canada's entrepreneurs
00:29:11.400 would recommend
00:29:12.280 to the next generation
00:29:13.380 to start a small business.
00:29:14.860 Oh my gosh.
00:29:15.840 This is really alarming.
00:29:16.940 We actually have now
00:29:17.960 more businesses leaving
00:29:19.200 than entering
00:29:20.720 for the first time
00:29:21.880 in 40 years.
00:29:23.440 More business exits
00:29:24.740 than enters.
00:29:25.820 Those are really
00:29:27.100 worrisome statistics
00:29:28.060 and this is among
00:29:29.140 the people
00:29:30.140 who have chosen
00:29:30.980 entrepreneurship
00:29:31.560 as their profession.
00:29:33.300 We've done just
00:29:34.160 about everything
00:29:34.780 to discourage them
00:29:35.980 along the way.
00:29:37.760 83% of small businesses
00:29:39.180 now oppose the carbon tax,
00:29:40.740 want to see
00:29:41.260 the federal carbon tax
00:29:43.040 gone
00:29:43.580 and we're increasing it.
00:29:46.000 At the very least,
00:29:46.900 if we had a couple
00:29:47.640 extra billion dollars,
00:29:49.100 let's press pause
00:29:49.960 on the increase
00:29:51.140 that we're planning
00:29:51.980 for April the 1st
00:29:53.280 as we explore options
00:29:55.120 to get rid
00:29:55.600 of the whole structure.
00:29:57.280 Dan,
00:29:57.440 you've been generous
00:29:58.020 with your time
00:29:58.460 and there's just
00:29:58.880 two more things
00:29:59.420 I want to put to you
00:30:00.260 and you alluded
00:30:00.840 to one before.
00:30:02.180 I mean,
00:30:03.040 when there's a tax change,
00:30:04.780 the CRA tries to help.
00:30:07.560 They really do.
00:30:08.460 I mean,
00:30:08.720 we can all be frustrated
00:30:09.880 with them
00:30:10.340 and you wait
00:30:10.800 on the phone for hours
00:30:12.000 but their purpose
00:30:13.580 is to help
00:30:14.080 but if they don't know
00:30:14.960 what the final rules are,
00:30:16.200 if it hasn't actually
00:30:17.000 been passed into law yet
00:30:18.680 and the regulations
00:30:19.580 and I don't know,
00:30:20.620 maybe it sounds like
00:30:21.360 they're sort of
00:30:21.900 trying to do it,
00:30:22.920 build the plane
00:30:23.440 while they tax you
00:30:24.140 down the runway,
00:30:25.800 there's got to be
00:30:26.660 a smarter way
00:30:27.680 to make policy
00:30:29.520 than just give people,
00:30:31.700 give everyone
00:30:32.220 a couple weeks notice.
00:30:33.420 Is that even lawful?
00:30:35.200 Can the executive office,
00:30:38.120 there's the legislative
00:30:39.320 and there's the executive,
00:30:40.460 can the prime minister
00:30:41.320 just sort of wave a wand
00:30:43.060 and say,
00:30:43.840 this is the new tax rate
00:30:45.020 if it hasn't been debated
00:30:46.740 and heard in committees
00:30:49.720 and voted on?
00:30:51.160 Does the government
00:30:52.400 have the power
00:30:52.980 to do that?
00:30:54.360 Well, there's two
00:30:55.100 recent policies
00:30:56.000 I'll use as an example
00:30:57.000 on these lines.
00:30:57.780 This GST-HST holiday,
00:30:59.960 I think it is incredibly
00:31:01.520 unfair the way
00:31:02.880 that they are implementing it
00:31:03.980 but at least
00:31:05.320 it appears
00:31:06.060 that the legislation
00:31:06.940 will be passed
00:31:08.100 before December 14th
00:31:09.860 and as a result,
00:31:10.980 that will be
00:31:11.620 the law of the land
00:31:12.420 and businesses
00:31:12.900 have to do their best
00:31:13.900 to comply with it.
00:31:15.640 That's one thing.
00:31:16.900 The short notice
00:31:17.820 is deeply unfair
00:31:19.400 but at least
00:31:19.920 it will be law.
00:31:21.280 I'll take you back though
00:31:22.700 Ezra to the
00:31:23.420 capital gains increase,
00:31:24.720 the inclusion rate increase
00:31:25.800 from 50% to two-thirds
00:31:27.460 that was announced
00:31:28.160 as part of the
00:31:28.800 April 2024 budget.
00:31:30.580 If you can believe it,
00:31:32.140 that has not even
00:31:33.480 been introduced
00:31:34.540 in the House of Commons
00:31:35.700 as legislation
00:31:36.740 eight months later.
00:31:39.480 We are eight months,
00:31:41.040 this is now the law,
00:31:42.120 this is now being
00:31:42.860 actually implemented
00:31:44.240 by the CRA
00:31:45.280 because there is
00:31:47.000 custom in Canada
00:31:48.280 that if a tax
00:31:49.300 change is announced,
00:31:51.060 then the CRA
00:31:52.020 will begin to implement
00:31:53.100 it in advance
00:31:54.080 of the legislation,
00:31:54.760 assuming the legislation
00:31:55.900 is passed.
00:31:57.400 But we are now
00:31:58.300 in uncharted territories
00:31:59.660 in Canada
00:32:00.260 because we have now
00:32:02.120 put in place rules
00:32:03.120 that went into effect
00:32:04.000 June 25th, 2024,
00:32:06.680 the legislation
00:32:07.460 for which has not
00:32:08.520 even been introduced
00:32:09.400 in the House of Commons
00:32:10.280 not a single debate
00:32:11.200 over this.
00:32:12.620 This is how scary
00:32:14.260 this is.
00:32:14.860 So we are now
00:32:15.680 consulting constitutional
00:32:17.220 people to help
00:32:18.540 understand this better.
00:32:20.900 There is a chance
00:32:21.980 this whole capital gains
00:32:22.960 thing could just
00:32:23.600 get flushed down
00:32:24.220 the toilet
00:32:24.640 because parliament
00:32:25.300 is not functioning
00:32:26.000 right now.
00:32:26.940 You know,
00:32:27.800 that's a technical
00:32:28.640 area of law,
00:32:29.600 administrative law,
00:32:30.640 constitutional law,
00:32:32.100 and it's beyond
00:32:33.360 my knowledge.
00:32:33.940 I think it's a fairly
00:32:34.580 obscure thing.
00:32:35.580 Dan, it reminds me
00:32:36.540 of an Alberta case
00:32:38.160 during the COVID
00:32:39.120 pandemic times
00:32:40.700 where,
00:32:41.820 I forget the name
00:32:42.360 of the case,
00:32:42.780 but the law
00:32:44.120 wasn't introduced
00:32:45.480 by the right party.
00:32:47.300 I don't know
00:32:47.780 the technical,
00:32:48.420 it was a very
00:32:48.900 technical decision
00:32:49.820 that the policy
00:32:51.640 came from the wrong
00:32:52.780 person in the wrong
00:32:53.840 way.
00:32:54.700 So all the cases,
00:32:56.580 all the tickets,
00:32:58.060 all the charges
00:32:58.700 were thrown out
00:32:59.500 because it wasn't
00:33:00.700 introduced the right
00:33:01.560 way.
00:33:02.020 And I think that's
00:33:02.620 how it ought to be,
00:33:03.320 by the way.
00:33:03.760 The government
00:33:04.160 shouldn't be able
00:33:05.280 just to,
00:33:06.240 they should be held
00:33:07.320 to the rules.
00:33:08.660 So that's...
00:33:08.940 Well, I just had
00:33:10.020 a constitutional expert
00:33:11.120 share with me
00:33:12.100 that in the UK,
00:33:13.660 governments can
00:33:14.420 introduce a policy
00:33:15.260 that then can take
00:33:16.080 legal effect in advance
00:33:17.140 of the legislation
00:33:17.740 passing,
00:33:19.560 but they have a time
00:33:20.420 limit to do that.
00:33:21.320 And if they don't,
00:33:22.280 the government has
00:33:22.840 to refund the money
00:33:23.780 that has been collected
00:33:24.580 in that period of time.
00:33:26.040 We would be well past
00:33:27.300 that in Canada now.
00:33:29.020 And it is something
00:33:30.000 that we're looking
00:33:30.640 into seriously
00:33:31.460 at CFIB.
00:33:33.040 That is heartbreaking.
00:33:34.540 And I don't know
00:33:35.280 why I'm feeling
00:33:36.240 a little emotional
00:33:37.120 talking about this.
00:33:38.480 It's because,
00:33:39.020 you know,
00:33:39.300 everywhere I go now,
00:33:40.360 I feel the economic stress.
00:33:43.200 I see it in people's eyes.
00:33:45.440 And this is just
00:33:48.120 an unnecessary stress.
00:33:51.780 And hearing your discussions
00:33:53.040 with individual business people,
00:33:54.780 trying in good faith
00:33:55.800 to figure it out.
00:33:56.600 Let me ask you
00:33:57.040 one last question, Dan.
00:33:57.880 You've been so generous
00:33:59.200 with your time today.
00:33:59.980 I don't want to keep you
00:34:00.900 too much longer,
00:34:01.580 but there's a company
00:34:02.580 I've been watching
00:34:03.280 out of the corner of my eye,
00:34:04.300 and we use this company
00:34:05.380 ourselves.
00:34:06.340 It's called Shopify.
00:34:08.100 Shopify.
00:34:08.420 It's a great Canadian
00:34:09.500 tech success story.
00:34:11.680 It's basically
00:34:12.220 an interface
00:34:13.200 to allow people
00:34:14.080 to sell things
00:34:15.380 on the internet.
00:34:16.680 You've probably seen it
00:34:17.980 on many ways.
00:34:19.800 All over the place.
00:34:20.340 Yeah, it's very successful.
00:34:22.400 And the entrepreneurs
00:34:23.460 behind it
00:34:24.320 are public-spirited guys.
00:34:26.580 Like, they seem like
00:34:27.120 really good guys.
00:34:27.580 I've never met them,
00:34:28.260 but I follow them
00:34:29.180 on Twitter.
00:34:30.140 And I remember
00:34:30.720 years ago,
00:34:32.600 they were,
00:34:33.160 you know,
00:34:33.560 Trudeau was cool,
00:34:34.820 and he was pro-technology,
00:34:36.320 and so they'd hang out
00:34:37.240 with him.
00:34:38.040 But now I see
00:34:39.360 the founders
00:34:40.300 and the CEO
00:34:41.100 of Shaw,
00:34:43.700 and I don't want
00:34:44.080 to mischaracterize
00:34:44.760 what they're saying,
00:34:45.240 but they're deeply concerned
00:34:46.280 about the path
00:34:47.180 of our country.
00:34:48.580 Part of me thinks
00:34:49.360 they might even leave Canada
00:34:50.760 to go to the States
00:34:52.480 or something.
00:34:53.320 Like, I just feel like
00:34:54.820 they're doing amazing things,
00:34:57.240 allowing people
00:34:57.880 to become entrepreneurs,
00:34:58.940 and even they,
00:35:01.720 and they're sort of,
00:35:02.380 they used to be
00:35:02.960 Trudeau's friends,
00:35:03.820 and they're not
00:35:04.400 political people,
00:35:05.480 but I feel like
00:35:06.440 they're being compelled
00:35:07.240 to speak out
00:35:07.960 because Canada
00:35:08.900 is so crazy these days.
00:35:11.000 I think that would be
00:35:11.980 a devastating blow.
00:35:13.260 I mean, I think Trudeau
00:35:14.220 should heed their warning
00:35:15.240 because they're not
00:35:15.780 his enemy.
00:35:16.920 They're not partisan conservatives.
00:35:18.620 If they're speaking out
00:35:19.640 about this now,
00:35:20.560 and I think everyone
00:35:21.580 knows the brand,
00:35:22.300 but they don't know
00:35:22.840 the people behind it.
00:35:23.980 These are wealth creators,
00:35:25.280 opportunity creators,
00:35:26.420 and I think they're terrified
00:35:27.860 for what they see
00:35:28.640 in Canada.
00:35:28.920 Do you have any relationship
00:35:30.240 with those guys?
00:35:31.020 Do you know who they are?
00:35:32.360 Have they spoken to you at all?
00:35:34.120 Because they are the king
00:35:35.240 of independent business, right?
00:35:36.780 They're the tool.
00:35:37.520 I bet you most of your members
00:35:38.520 use them.
00:35:40.460 It's ubiquitous now
00:35:41.780 among small and medium-sized firms.
00:35:43.460 Shopify has done a great job
00:35:44.900 of building out networks.
00:35:46.900 In fact, they're not just
00:35:47.700 for e-commerce.
00:35:48.740 I saw this weekend
00:35:49.780 visiting a toy store in Toronto.
00:35:51.980 The in-store payments
00:35:53.460 were powered by Shopify too.
00:35:55.840 A big, big company,
00:35:57.240 huge success story.
00:35:58.240 But the entrepreneurs
00:35:59.460 have been very clear.
00:36:00.600 You and I are following them
00:36:01.720 the same way on Twitter.
00:36:03.400 They've been very concerned
00:36:04.480 about the changes
00:36:05.740 in capital gains treatment
00:36:07.160 in terms of what it's going to say
00:36:08.840 about the possibility
00:36:10.360 of building success in Canada.
00:36:12.440 And the whole point
00:36:13.920 of lower rates of taxation
00:36:15.100 on capital gains
00:36:15.960 is to allow people
00:36:17.000 to reinvest those dollars
00:36:18.440 to continue to grow businesses
00:36:21.300 and grow companies.
00:36:22.800 Often in the tech world,
00:36:23.940 you basically reward people
00:36:26.320 through some shares that grow
00:36:28.680 as opposed to being able
00:36:30.380 to pay them
00:36:30.940 what they would be worth
00:36:32.140 in the private sector.
00:36:33.580 And we're changing
00:36:34.480 a lot of the foundational rules
00:36:36.440 that have encouraged people
00:36:37.620 to take risks on their own.
00:36:40.000 For goodness sakes,
00:36:40.680 we can't have everyone
00:36:41.580 working in the public sector
00:36:42.980 if we want to have a country
00:36:45.100 that actually has tax dollars
00:36:47.360 to support the social programs
00:36:49.620 on which many Canadians
00:36:50.780 support themselves.
00:36:52.660 So this is deeply worrisome.
00:36:55.220 We're running the risk
00:36:56.420 of killing the goose
00:36:57.180 that lays the goat and eggs.
00:36:58.580 And I am very, very worried
00:37:00.800 about the spirit of entrepreneurship
00:37:02.260 from what I'm seeing in Canada.
00:37:04.940 You know, when I started doing this
00:37:06.280 30 years ago,
00:37:07.820 the most frequent question
00:37:09.060 I had from a business owner
00:37:10.240 is which of my three kids
00:37:11.620 do I want to groom
00:37:12.800 to take over the business?
00:37:14.600 Now I'm more likely to hear
00:37:15.920 from business owners,
00:37:17.200 I don't want any of my three kids
00:37:18.880 or two kids these days
00:37:20.620 to take over the business.
00:37:22.380 I don't want to have them
00:37:23.240 go through the same hell
00:37:24.240 that I've gone through
00:37:25.320 over the last couple of decades.
00:37:27.780 And how disappointing is that?
00:37:29.780 That entrepreneurs
00:37:30.460 don't want their kids
00:37:31.680 to have to go through
00:37:32.620 the struggles of red tape
00:37:34.020 and paperwork and high taxes
00:37:35.560 that they've had to go through
00:37:36.940 as they try to build a company,
00:37:39.380 build a brand,
00:37:40.420 or contribute back
00:37:41.640 to their local communities.
00:37:42.900 That needs to change
00:37:44.560 and it needs to change real fast.
00:37:46.520 Dan, that's such a sorrowful thing
00:37:48.060 you've just said.
00:37:49.020 You know, it reminds me
00:37:50.320 of something I like to think about
00:37:52.520 sometimes about the free market
00:37:53.980 where both, you know,
00:37:55.720 it's a funny thing
00:37:56.680 and I don't think
00:37:57.160 it's just a polite courtesy.
00:37:58.920 Why is it when you buy something
00:38:00.560 in a convenience store
00:38:02.020 or a small business,
00:38:03.080 when you buy it,
00:38:04.260 you say thanks,
00:38:05.800 but the store says thanks.
00:38:07.200 Like how come both people
00:38:08.820 are saying thank you
00:38:09.840 other than courtesy?
00:38:11.280 It's because both people
00:38:12.300 came out ahead, right?
00:38:14.600 Both people,
00:38:15.300 you got something
00:38:16.140 you thought was valuable
00:38:17.320 and you thought was worth it
00:38:18.800 and they sold it to you
00:38:19.860 in a way that they could
00:38:20.720 make a go of it.
00:38:21.700 It was the mutual,
00:38:23.480 happy trade
00:38:25.640 and everyone came out ahead.
00:38:28.240 And I just feel like
00:38:29.500 we're losing the opportunity
00:38:31.900 of the free market
00:38:32.840 and like you say,
00:38:33.940 the public sector
00:38:35.340 is growing unrelentingly.
00:38:37.960 It's boom times.
00:38:39.360 It's never been better
00:38:40.440 in the public sector
00:38:41.840 and they're driving out
00:38:43.080 the small guys
00:38:43.900 and the medium guys
00:38:44.660 and you are raising the alarm.
00:38:48.060 And the reason I mentioned
00:38:49.000 the Shopify guys
00:38:50.360 is because they are not
00:38:52.000 built to be politicians,
00:38:53.440 but they just can't
00:38:54.980 stay silent anymore.
00:38:56.140 I think we're in trouble
00:38:57.480 and I tell you,
00:38:58.460 the next election
00:38:59.080 can't come soon enough.
00:39:00.200 I know you guys
00:39:00.860 at the CFIB
00:39:01.540 are non-partisan,
00:39:02.920 so I won't ask you
00:39:04.820 to comment on that.
00:39:05.980 But boy,
00:39:06.560 I think the whole world
00:39:07.880 needs to shake up
00:39:08.600 in this country.
00:39:09.140 Dan, it's really great
00:39:09.700 to connect with you
00:39:10.460 and I wish you
00:39:11.420 and your members
00:39:11.940 good luck
00:39:12.460 and hopefully
00:39:14.120 this will be
00:39:14.700 a good Christmas season
00:39:15.780 for them
00:39:16.220 and tax relief
00:39:17.420 will come soon.
00:39:19.160 Thanks so much,
00:39:19.720 Ezra.
00:39:19.920 Good to be with you.
00:39:20.680 Likewise.
00:39:21.520 There you have a Dan Kelly.
00:39:22.700 He's with the Canadian
00:39:23.440 Federation of Independent Business.
00:39:24.800 You can follow him
00:39:25.600 at cfib.ca
00:39:27.840 or on Twitter.
00:39:29.780 Stay with us.
00:39:30.700 More ahead.
00:39:31.200 Your letters to me.
00:39:44.260 This is about when
00:39:45.600 some pro-Hamas supporters
00:39:47.080 actually,
00:39:48.240 I'm not going to say
00:39:48.920 stormed Parliament,
00:39:50.480 but they entered
00:39:51.560 into Parliament
00:39:52.360 and had a little insurrection.
00:39:55.260 Wozniakor says,
00:39:56.140 The whole House of Commons
00:39:57.460 was silent.
00:39:58.320 Not one member
00:39:59.100 said a word.
00:39:59.740 No one will be fired
00:40:01.100 for this breach.
00:40:01.760 Nothing.
00:40:02.360 Remember when veterans
00:40:03.200 were stopped
00:40:03.680 from going to the war memorial?
00:40:05.380 Some are much more equal
00:40:06.420 than others.
00:40:06.840 You're talking about
00:40:07.620 the comparison
00:40:08.700 with the trucker convoy
00:40:10.080 when the National War Memorial
00:40:11.740 was locked down,
00:40:12.880 when the riot police
00:40:14.100 were dispatched.
00:40:15.300 I remind you again
00:40:16.120 that the truckers
00:40:16.740 did not enter
00:40:17.320 any parliamentary building.
00:40:18.380 They stayed in their trucks
00:40:19.160 and on the streets.
00:40:20.540 Here you had an actual
00:40:21.880 insurrection,
00:40:23.760 if you want to use
00:40:24.400 that language,
00:40:25.960 trespassing,
00:40:27.400 intimidating Parliament,
00:40:28.460 and there were some arrests
00:40:30.040 but they were all let go.
00:40:32.000 It's just incredible
00:40:32.800 the double standard.
00:40:33.760 Tommy D says,
00:40:34.660 This is unacceptable.
00:40:36.780 As a Canadian,
00:40:37.480 these people need to be charged
00:40:38.620 and jailed.
00:40:39.540 What if a half dozen
00:40:40.820 of them had guns?
00:40:41.920 They could literally
00:40:42.720 take Parliament.
00:40:44.700 I hope they weren't stupid
00:40:46.060 enough to have brought guns,
00:40:47.260 but a forcible invasion
00:40:50.320 of a public building
00:40:51.600 for a political purpose
00:40:53.100 that does feel
00:40:54.200 a little bit like
00:40:54.900 Section 51
00:40:55.680 intimidating Parliament.
00:40:56.720 Perhaps 565 says,
00:41:00.520 Free the hostages now.
00:41:03.200 Isn't it funny
00:41:04.340 how Democrats
00:41:05.760 in the U.S.
00:41:06.660 and the Canadian government
00:41:07.820 have just stopped
00:41:08.440 even mentioning that,
00:41:09.740 whereas Donald Trump
00:41:10.620 published a statement
00:41:12.120 of social media
00:41:12.920 threatening,
00:41:13.880 holy hell,
00:41:15.060 raining down
00:41:15.760 on those who still
00:41:17.440 have hostages
00:41:18.100 when he takes office
00:41:19.380 in January.
00:41:20.060 It's going to be
00:41:20.400 an interesting time.
00:41:22.360 Well, that's our show
00:41:23.200 for today.
00:41:24.260 Until next time,
00:41:25.080 on behalf of all of us
00:41:26.040 here at Rebel World
00:41:26.700 Headquarters,
00:41:27.420 to you at home,
00:41:28.020 good night,
00:41:28.940 and keep fighting
00:41:29.820 for freedom.
00:41:30.340 We'll be right back.