Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Trudeau wants to campaign against Trump, not fix Canada's porous borders

00:00:00.240 Hello, my friends. Do you think Donald Trump means it when he says he wants to turn Canada into the 51st state?

00:00:06.420 I don't think so, but I think he is loving the freak out amongst the Canadian left who thinks he's dead serious.

00:00:14.540 I'll show you what he's done to poke at them a little bit.

00:00:18.020 But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to what we call Rebel News Plus.

00:00:21.340 It's the video version of this podcast.

00:00:23.160 It's just eight bucks a month, which I know doesn't sound like a lot to you, but boy, it sure adds up for us.

00:00:30.400 Because we don't get any money from the government. We don't get any money from YouTube.

00:00:34.240 So it's really just you.

00:00:35.940 Please go to rebelnewsplus.com. Click subscribe.

00:00:40.920 And not only do you get the great content, but you know you're keeping Rebel News alive.

00:00:47.840 Hey, let me mention one more thing before I get out of the way.

00:00:50.500 You know, the last time you sat down with your financial advisor, did you have a real conversation?

00:00:56.200 Did they allow you to express all your concerns, or did they dismiss them out of hand and give you the head office talking points?

00:01:03.320 When it comes to your family's wealth, you need to work with people you can have a real conversation with.

00:01:07.860 People who share your values and won't view you as a fringe minority for believing things that are plainly true.

00:01:13.600 Work with our friends at Rocklink Investment Partners.

00:01:16.900 They're a proudly Canadian, conservative, and independent.

00:01:21.120 They adhere to the time-tested principles of wealth, creation, and preservation.

00:01:26.540 They'll work with you to build a financial plan for your future.

00:01:29.300 Call Rocklink and get your investments on track.

00:01:32.560 Call them at 905-631-5462 or email them at info at rocklink.com.

00:01:39.740 That's Rocklink with a C, info at rocklink.com.

00:01:44.140 All right, here's today's podcast.

00:01:45.760 You're listening to our podcast.

00:01:59.300 Tonight, is Donald Trump really going to invade Canada?

00:02:05.400 It's December 5th, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:02:07.860 You're fighting for freedom!

00:02:11.100 Shame on you, you censorious bug!

00:02:14.280 As you know, Justin Trudeau flew down to Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's residence in Florida,

00:02:29.360 which he's using sort of as his de facto White House.

00:02:33.460 His transition team is hunkered down there.

00:02:36.560 Howard Lutnick, the head of the transition team, also nominated to be Commerce Secretary.

00:02:41.100 That's where they're vetting people, bandying about names.

00:02:45.980 And Elon Musk is being hanging out there, too, along with RFK Jr.

00:02:49.660 It's sort of exciting to watch.

00:02:51.520 Trump has a very high work ethic.

00:02:53.480 He was campaigning for as much as 20 hours a day during the campaign,

00:02:58.440 and he really didn't take a single day off.

00:03:00.500 He went straight to work thereafter.

00:03:02.600 I think he's really moving through it at a quick pace.

00:03:05.340 And world leaders are calling him, and many are going to see him.

00:03:09.440 And Justin Trudeau did that, too.

00:03:11.900 He did that after, as you know, Donald Trump made a tweet or a post to his own Truth Social,

00:03:18.980 that's his own social media network, saying that if Mexico and Canada,

00:03:23.880 and he lumped the two countries together,

00:03:26.440 if Mexico and Canada didn't solve the border problem in two ways,

00:03:30.640 stop illegal migrants and stop illegal drugs,

00:03:33.440 both countries would be hit with a 25% tariff on all goods.

00:03:38.280 Now, that is a shocking thing to hear.

00:03:41.420 Mexico, within a day, got on the phone, the new president there,

00:03:46.420 and basically gave Donald Trump enough to say, all right, mission accomplished.

00:03:51.300 Mexico will no longer allow the mass migration, the caravans going through.

00:03:55.840 I don't know exactly what they said.

00:03:57.380 No one does.

00:03:57.920 We weren't on the call.

00:03:59.180 But it was enough for Trump to declare victory.

00:04:01.260 And the Mexican president sort of had her feathers slightly ruffled, but mission accomplished. 0.62

00:04:07.040 Can you imagine how that would flatten the Mexican economy?

00:04:09.820 But understand, Trump was doing that.

00:04:11.760 If you read Trump's book, Art of the Deal, he describes how he negotiates.

00:04:15.720 He makes outrageous demands to reset the conversation

00:04:19.120 and to make the settlement look very reasonable by comparison.

00:04:23.200 If you don't ask for everything, you're not going to get what you really want.

00:04:27.880 I mean, it's some negotiation tactics that I found very interesting in that book, Art of the Deal.

00:04:33.680 When he said that to Canada, I think a lot of Canadians thought,

00:04:37.340 oh, he's going to actually, he wants tariffs.

00:04:40.280 I don't think you need to be an expert in negotiations to see.

00:04:45.160 Trump doesn't want a 25% tariff on Canadian goods.

00:04:49.240 He wants us to do what he's threatening us, the tariffs, for.

00:04:54.340 He wants us to secure the border.

00:04:55.920 He wants us to stop migration.

00:04:58.540 And there are some terrorists who have been caught coming over the border.

00:05:02.320 And he wants us to stop the flow of illegal drugs

00:05:05.700 that originate sometimes in China and go through Canada to the States.

00:05:10.120 And the right answer is, sure, we will fix our borders. 0.95

00:05:14.800 We would do that for our own interests,

00:05:16.680 but happy to work with our American partners on that.

00:05:19.720 I mean, happy to fix the problem of Roxham Road.

00:05:23.600 It's amazing that Canada found a reason not to do so.

00:05:26.760 I think the reason that Justin Trudeau didn't get on the phone

00:05:29.780 and say to Donald Trump, sure, let's fix this.

00:05:32.240 I think the reason Trudeau didn't do that

00:05:34.800 is Trudeau's trying to figure out a way how to use this in the next election.

00:05:38.960 Can he campaign against Donald Trump in the upcoming election?

00:05:45.140 Because that would be a lot easier for him than campaigning against Pierre Polyev.

00:05:49.140 Pierre Polyev and the conservatives under him are in the 40s,

00:05:53.420 almost approaching the 50% mark in polls,

00:05:56.860 whereas Donald Trump is far less popular in Canada.

00:05:59.760 So if Trudeau could find a way to frame the entire next election

00:06:03.960 as standing up to Trudeau,

00:06:06.580 he would probably do a lot better than if it was standing up to Pierre Polyev,

00:06:10.220 who Canadians have really come to be comfortable with.

00:06:14.220 And not only is Donald Trump less popular than Polyev, 0.99

00:06:17.820 but it would put Polyev in sort of a pickle

00:06:19.740 because Polyev would probably feel compelled in some way

00:06:23.380 to denounce or disavow Trump

00:06:25.660 just so he wasn't, he tarred his Trump's, you know, puppet up here.

00:06:31.000 It's a really interesting thing.

00:06:34.000 But you can see that although Donald Trump hosted

00:06:36.780 Justin Trudeau down at Mar-a-Lago,

00:06:40.120 you can see that not everything was quite right.

00:06:43.120 For example, how odd it was

00:06:44.920 that Trudeau did not go down with his foreign minister, Melanie Jolie.

00:06:48.340 Don't you think that the foreign minister should come

00:06:51.340 and meet a foreign country, a foreign leader,

00:06:53.780 our most important ally militarily, economically.

00:06:57.620 But I think that Trudeau knew that Melanie Jolie

00:07:00.420 would just embarrass everybody and she didn't want him there.

00:07:03.640 She'll leave her, she'll be left for the unimportant files 0.93

00:07:07.140 like denouncing Israel.

00:07:09.760 Chrystia Freeland was not there either,

00:07:11.480 even though she's the de facto PM in so many ways

00:07:14.260 because they knew that Trump just despises her.

00:07:17.860 They brought Dominic LeBlanc,

00:07:19.300 who's probably the closest thing to a competent cabinet minister.

00:07:22.480 And of course, Trudeau's chief of staff was there too.

00:07:25.260 The photo, you know, of the dinner looked friendly enough,

00:07:28.220 but Trump, and Trump published it,

00:07:30.760 but he was not effusive in his praise

00:07:32.800 as he has been for other leaders.

00:07:35.460 And here's a clip of Fox News reporting

00:07:39.880 from two sources who were at the dinner

00:07:42.120 who were clearly American sources

00:07:44.260 because Canadians would never have leaked this,

00:07:46.600 that Donald Trump joked

00:07:48.840 that if Trudeau didn't get his act together,

00:07:52.880 Trump would turn Canada into the 51st state.

00:07:56.300 Here's how that was reported on Fox News.

00:07:58.880 And tonight we're getting some new details

00:08:00.860 about that Trump-Trudeau dinner

00:08:02.620 from two people who were at the table.

00:08:04.660 We are told that when Trudeau told President-elect Trump

00:08:08.440 that new tariffs would kill the Canadian economy,

00:08:11.660 Trump joked to him that if Canada can't survive

00:08:14.620 without ripping off the U.S.

00:08:16.240 to the tune of $100 billion a year,

00:08:18.720 then maybe Canada should become the 51st state

00:08:22.340 and Trudeau could become its governor.

00:08:25.440 Right.

00:08:27.500 But more on that detail with the panel.

00:08:30.480 Peter, thank you.

00:08:31.440 The minister making his way down south

00:08:33.660 to Palm Beach, Florida,

00:08:35.720 after the announcement that President Trump

00:08:39.120 was going to levy some 25% in taxes,

00:08:43.520 tariffs, if changes didn't happen.

00:08:46.080 Now, I want to read from this.

00:08:47.320 Peter Doocy referenced it, some amazing detail,

00:08:50.380 according to two people at that table

00:08:51.860 who heard the discussion.

00:08:53.320 President-elect Trump, while cordial and welcoming,

00:08:55.360 was very direct when it came to what he wants

00:08:57.260 from his counterpart to the North.

00:08:58.580 Trump said to Trudeau, paraphrasing here,

00:09:00.680 Canada has failed on the U.S. border,

00:09:02.360 allowing large amounts of drugs

00:09:03.600 and people across that border,

00:09:04.760 illegal immigrants from more than 70 countries.

00:09:07.340 But President Trump was even more animated

00:09:08.960 when it came to the U.S. trade deficit with Canada

00:09:11.900 that he put at more than $100 billion.

00:09:14.420 He said if Canada can't fix those things,

00:09:17.160 he will levy this 25% tariff on all Canadian goods

00:09:20.000 on day one when he gets back in office.

00:09:22.120 At which point, Prime Minister Trudeau says

00:09:24.660 he can't do that because it'll kill

00:09:26.360 the Canadian economy completely.

00:09:28.540 And Trump asked, so your country can't survive

00:09:30.560 unless it's ripping off the U.S.

00:09:32.040 to the tune of $100 billion?

00:09:33.100 Well, he said, Trump said,

00:09:36.400 maybe Canada should become the 51st state.

00:09:39.840 Prime Minister Trudeau nervously laughed,

00:09:41.700 as did others at the table.

00:09:42.900 But Trump went on saying, you know,

00:09:44.220 Prime Minister is a better title,

00:09:45.960 but you could still be governor of the 51st state.

00:09:48.680 Then someone at the table said,

00:09:49.920 Mr. President, that would be a very liberal state

00:09:51.920 to more laughter.

00:09:53.220 President-elect Trump said,

00:09:54.440 well, maybe we'll make two,

00:09:55.460 a conservative one and a liberal one.

00:09:57.020 But if you can't handle the list of demands

00:09:58.760 without ripping us off in trade,

00:10:00.580 that maybe you really should become a state or two

00:10:03.440 and you can be governor.

00:10:04.440 Now, if you have been paying attention to Donald Trump

00:10:07.440 in the last eight years since he was president

00:10:10.840 and then candidate and then president-elect,

00:10:13.660 you'll know that Donald Trump makes jokes.

00:10:16.820 He makes insults.

00:10:17.920 He is an entertainer.

00:10:19.480 And you don't even have to have followed him

00:10:21.120 the last eight years.

00:10:22.600 Follow him before that.

00:10:23.760 He was constantly doing media.

00:10:25.980 He was a star of the hit TV show,

00:10:28.280 The Apprentice,

00:10:29.200 and he has an entertaining style.

00:10:31.800 So I think even if you don't find that a funny joke,

00:10:35.740 I think you ought to know that that's a joke.

00:10:39.200 I mean, that's the thing about jokes

00:10:40.120 is you don't have to laugh at them.

00:10:41.540 But I think we can all acknowledge that that is a joke.

00:10:44.140 And the reason that's funny

00:10:45.700 and the reason Trump said it

00:10:47.580 is because obviously Trudeau is weak

00:10:49.940 and Trudeau has made Canada weak.

00:10:51.740 And Trudeau has put Canada in a position

00:10:53.900 with not a lot of bargaining power.

00:10:55.740 In fact, the one thing America most wants from Canada,

00:10:59.480 our number one export to them, is oil.

00:11:02.300 And Trudeau has basically declared war on oil,

00:11:05.300 is jacking up the carbon tax,

00:11:07.280 and through Stephen Gilboa,

00:11:09.360 seeks to have a production limit on the oil sands.

00:11:12.920 That's not in Trump's interest.

00:11:14.660 So I think that Trump looks down on Trudeau

00:11:17.220 and what he's done.

00:11:18.380 So he would make that joke.

00:11:19.680 The only reason that joke works

00:11:22.280 is because Trump disrespects Trudeau

00:11:26.620 and Trump sees that Canada is weak under Trudeau.

00:11:29.960 That joke wouldn't make sense with Mexico. 0.99

00:11:32.640 That joke wouldn't make sense with the UK or France.

00:11:35.740 The only reason that joke is plausibly funny,

00:11:38.660 if you think it's funny or not,

00:11:40.560 is because there's a tiny grain of possibility to it.

00:11:45.240 Of course, it's not for real.

00:11:46.880 Well, it just shows that Trump does not respect Trudeau.

00:11:50.620 What's amazing is the reaction

00:11:52.440 from the so-called smart people in Canada,

00:11:54.560 who not only think that Trump really wants

00:11:57.760 to put a 25% tariff on Canadian goods,

00:12:00.440 when in fact he's just using that as a stick

00:12:02.220 to get what he wants,

00:12:03.520 they actually are almost taking seriously

00:12:06.900 that Trump would invade.

00:12:08.420 Jean Charest, the former Premier of Quebec,

00:12:10.740 the former Tory leader,

00:12:11.980 and the sometime Conservative Party leadership candidate,

00:12:15.720 he actually tweeted,

00:12:16.980 oh, Donald Trump,

00:12:18.260 well, last time we had a war,

00:12:19.560 we beat you in 1812.

00:12:21.320 Now, I hope that Jean Charest was responding in kind,

00:12:24.260 just making banter,

00:12:25.660 but I think too many Canadians 1.00

00:12:28.260 are taking Trump literally.

00:12:30.200 They don't see the humor there,

00:12:31.660 and they themselves don't have a sense of humor.

00:12:33.800 And look at this picture

00:12:35.780 that Donald Trump published on social media

00:12:38.540 of him standing with a Canadian flag,

00:12:41.460 looking like he's about to invade.

00:12:43.660 So clearly he likes poking at

00:12:46.680 the Canadian political class.

00:12:49.600 I want to show you something

00:12:50.460 a little bit more serious, though.

00:12:51.940 We've been talking about banter

00:12:53.360 and negotiating tactics.

00:12:54.980 And really, if you have the time,

00:12:57.220 if you can pick up Trump's book,

00:12:58.640 The Art of the Deal,

00:12:59.860 if you read that,

00:13:00.960 you'll understand how he uses the media.

00:13:03.320 How he says things deliberately,

00:13:06.640 provocative to knock the other side

00:13:08.440 off their balance.

00:13:11.040 And he wrote that long before,

00:13:14.140 like decades before he was president.

00:13:16.400 It's worth a read.

00:13:17.520 And he's quite a character.

00:13:18.780 And if you don't understand

00:13:19.560 that he's a character,

00:13:20.340 I think you're going to miss

00:13:21.080 a lot of his points,

00:13:22.160 which a lot of liberals deliberately do.

00:13:24.760 But there's no doubt

00:13:25.840 this poses a challenge for Canada,

00:13:28.400 securing the world's largest

00:13:29.760 unsecured border.

00:13:31.140 And like I said,

00:13:33.940 I don't know if Trudeau

00:13:34.600 actually wants to do that

00:13:35.560 because I think he wants

00:13:36.240 to pick a fight with Trump.

00:13:37.640 But I want to show you this.

00:13:39.320 Here's a clip of a CBC

00:13:41.360 government journalist

00:13:42.700 talking to a pundit

00:13:44.660 who's sort of associated

00:13:45.760 with the Conservative Party.

00:13:47.180 And he's outraged

00:13:48.900 that Pierre Polyev

00:13:51.460 is not signing on

00:13:54.540 to Justin Trudeau's,

00:13:55.840 I'm not even going to call it a plan

00:13:57.280 because I don't think

00:13:57.940 Trudeau has a plan.

00:13:58.760 He's outraged

00:13:59.960 that Pierre Polyev

00:14:01.060 would put forward

00:14:02.620 his own ideas

00:14:03.720 about how to deal with Trump

00:14:05.960 instead of just

00:14:06.840 repeating Trudeau's ideas.

00:14:11.500 And if you watch this video,

00:14:13.280 it sort of feels like

00:14:14.260 the CBC has been given

00:14:16.320 its instructions

00:14:17.360 on what to say

00:14:18.640 or not to say too.

00:14:19.900 Here, take a look

00:14:20.520 at this really weird interaction

00:14:22.280 where the CBC government journalist

00:14:24.700 is mad at the leader

00:14:26.600 of the opposition

00:14:27.380 for opposing.

00:14:29.620 Take a look.

00:14:30.360 All the national leaders

00:14:31.580 get together

00:14:32.140 in the cabinet room.

00:14:33.000 That's where they met, apparently.

00:14:34.320 And they were all asked

00:14:35.320 to not say things

00:14:36.060 like the border is broken.

00:14:37.240 And in about 45 seconds,

00:14:38.560 Pierre Polyev says

00:14:39.220 the border is broken.

00:14:40.340 And then he leads off

00:14:41.240 question period

00:14:41.820 about the broken border.

00:14:43.000 Right.

00:14:43.300 This is exactly

00:14:44.060 the sort of thing

00:14:44.860 they're all being asked

00:14:45.920 not to do

00:14:46.440 because it helps

00:14:48.080 the U.S. news cycle

00:14:49.460 and helps the president-elect's argument.

00:14:50.940 He was making comments

00:14:53.220 about the border

00:14:53.720 well before that meeting.

00:14:55.100 Sure.

00:14:55.280 He had also done

00:14:56.440 an entire media availability

00:14:57.700 on Sunday

00:14:58.440 where he talked about

00:14:59.200 what he would do

00:14:59.720 to fix the border.

00:15:00.580 So he's not just coming out

00:15:01.680 and saying

00:15:02.140 the border is a problem

00:15:03.560 and it needs to be fixed.

00:15:05.020 He's also outlining a path

00:15:06.420 for how it could be fixed

00:15:07.900 and actions

00:15:08.380 that the government could take.

00:15:09.460 So it's not just

00:15:10.020 identification of a problem.

00:15:11.480 There's also a solutions roadmap

00:15:13.220 that he's identified.

00:15:14.220 I mean, the CBC,

00:15:15.600 we know they're in collusion

00:15:17.460 with the liberals,

00:15:18.420 but it's rarely this obvious.

00:15:19.600 Poliev was asked

00:15:22.640 not to say

00:15:23.700 we have a problem.

00:15:25.140 He was asked,

00:15:26.240 he was told

00:15:27.060 by Trudeau,

00:15:28.520 don't say

00:15:29.520 the border's broken.

00:15:31.880 Yeah, the border is broken.

00:15:33.740 I think even the liberals

00:15:34.860 acknowledge that.

00:15:35.680 I just got two words for you,

00:15:36.940 rocks and road.

00:15:38.280 And the outrage

00:15:39.480 that Poliev would ask 0.75

00:15:41.360 a question

00:15:41.940 about our broken border

00:15:42.920 in question period.

00:15:44.940 So the opposition leader

00:15:46.100 is opposing

00:15:46.740 and he's asking questions

00:15:48.780 in question period.

00:15:50.260 How dare he?

00:15:51.980 Says who? 0.65

00:15:53.120 Not, I mean,

00:15:53.860 you could,

00:15:54.480 I suppose a liberal

00:15:55.500 could make that argument,

00:15:56.860 but it wasn't a liberal MP

00:15:58.100 or a liberal pundit.

00:15:59.160 It was a government journalist

00:16:01.040 at the CBC state broadcaster

00:16:03.360 just because it helps,

00:16:05.340 it doesn't help Trump

00:16:06.540 to say our border is broken.

00:16:08.260 It helps Canadians

00:16:09.140 because we've got to fix

00:16:10.240 the broken border

00:16:11.080 for our own sake.

00:16:12.600 And yeah,

00:16:13.400 because it'll stop

00:16:14.240 the 25% tariffs hitting us.

00:16:16.160 Just incredible.

00:16:16.960 If you think that this

00:16:19.020 is the worst thing in Canada

00:16:20.100 right now,

00:16:20.600 it's not.

00:16:21.180 Coming up next,

00:16:22.140 my talk with Dan Kelly

00:16:23.120 of the Canadian Federation

00:16:24.200 of Independent Business

00:16:25.120 about how Trudeau's gimmicky

00:16:27.140 $250 tax cut

00:16:29.420 is actually costing more

00:16:31.100 than it saves.

00:16:31.800 That's next.

00:16:32.280 Pierre Polyev always talks

00:16:45.200 about calling a carbon tax election.

00:16:47.440 It's clear he wants

00:16:48.180 to make affordability

00:16:49.780 a centerpiece of his campaign.

00:16:52.340 And it's done quite well

00:16:53.520 for him over the past year.

00:16:55.520 Almost every single poll

00:16:56.820 has shown him

00:16:57.400 with about a 20% lead.

00:16:59.680 And when you ask Canadians 0.81

00:17:00.700 what they care about,

00:17:01.860 affordability is a big one.

00:17:04.100 Luxury concerns

00:17:05.420 that people can afford

00:17:06.940 when their bank accounts

00:17:08.040 are full,

00:17:08.480 like global warming issues.

00:17:10.260 Those have fallen

00:17:11.180 by the wayside

00:17:11.980 as housing

00:17:13.080 and groceries

00:17:14.000 take the lead.

00:17:16.340 So it's not that surprising

00:17:18.060 that as Justin Trudeau

00:17:19.280 looks at a very likely

00:17:20.860 2025 election,

00:17:22.940 he's seeking to win back

00:17:24.640 some of that ground.

00:17:25.980 And indeed,

00:17:26.480 he has announced,

00:17:27.880 and Chrystia Freeland

00:17:28.720 has announced,

00:17:29.980 a GST holiday

00:17:31.620 around the Christmas season.

00:17:33.720 And when Pierre Polyev

00:17:35.620 said that that was not

00:17:36.800 something he would support,

00:17:37.920 the Trudeau liberals

00:17:39.040 pivoted saying,

00:17:39.880 uh-huh,

00:17:40.600 he's not really in favor

00:17:42.020 of tax cuts now,

00:17:43.120 is he?

00:17:43.500 So far,

00:17:44.320 that messaging has not

00:17:45.560 connected with Canadian voters.

00:17:48.120 But put that aside,

00:17:49.580 is it good policy?

00:17:51.320 Joining us now

00:17:52.080 to talk about tax cuts

00:17:54.060 in general

00:17:54.720 and the government's

00:17:55.780 fiscal policy

00:17:56.560 is Dan Kelly,

00:17:58.400 who's the president

00:17:59.060 of the Canadian Federation

00:18:00.240 of Independent Business.

00:18:02.520 You can follow him

00:18:03.640 at cfib.ca

00:18:06.200 or on Twitter.

00:18:07.100 Dan, great to see you.

00:18:07.780 Thanks for coming on the show.

00:18:09.340 Good to be with you, Ezra.

00:18:10.540 Well, it's our pleasure.

00:18:12.040 You bring a lot of expertise

00:18:13.040 with you.

00:18:13.600 And of course,

00:18:14.000 you're in touch

00:18:14.500 with independent business,

00:18:15.940 which typically means

00:18:17.000 small and medium-sized business.

00:18:19.540 And one of the things

00:18:20.640 I've heard is

00:18:21.380 just handling

00:18:22.540 these GST,

00:18:23.520 GST changes

00:18:24.680 is going to be

00:18:25.580 a real paperwork burden

00:18:27.740 for small businesses.

00:18:29.400 Is that the case?

00:18:30.340 What are your members

00:18:30.900 telling you?

00:18:31.620 First of all,

00:18:32.100 before you answer that,

00:18:32.780 can you sum up

00:18:34.280 the changes

00:18:34.920 that Trudeau has brought in

00:18:36.260 and then tell us

00:18:37.400 how businesses

00:18:38.180 are reacting to it?

00:18:40.120 Yeah, look,

00:18:40.660 this is a two-month holiday

00:18:41.880 from December 14th

00:18:43.500 to February 15th.

00:18:44.940 It removes the GST,

00:18:46.780 zero rates it effectively.

00:18:48.380 And in HST provinces,

00:18:49.820 where the combined

00:18:51.060 federal-provincial tax

00:18:52.120 is 13% to 15%,

00:18:54.000 it gets rid of the whole thing

00:18:55.780 for a two-month period.

00:18:57.860 It's only on a few goods.

00:19:00.540 So it is on restaurant meals

00:19:02.320 and some of the grocery products

00:19:04.300 that still carry GST,

00:19:05.660 packaged goods

00:19:06.360 and snack foods,

00:19:07.360 drinks, for example,

00:19:08.880 beer, wine,

00:19:10.020 and some coolers,

00:19:12.520 children's books,

00:19:13.340 children's toys,

00:19:14.180 even the Christmas tree.

00:19:15.760 That's it.

00:19:17.020 And so for that,

00:19:19.300 small and medium-sized businesses

00:19:20.660 are now scrambling

00:19:21.840 with two weeks' notice

00:19:23.700 to try to temporarily

00:19:25.720 remove the GST

00:19:27.040 from those items

00:19:28.040 and only those items

00:19:29.500 in order to keep compliant

00:19:31.600 with CRA rules.

00:19:33.700 And that's where

00:19:34.300 the rub comes in.

00:19:35.180 Small business owners

00:19:35.880 don't mind tax reductions,

00:19:38.240 but I find myself

00:19:41.220 in the unusual position

00:19:43.340 of lobbying against

00:19:44.400 an actual reduction in tax.

00:19:46.080 That's not our issue with it.

00:19:47.760 The administrative issue

00:19:48.980 for this temporary tax reduction

00:19:51.000 is the major problem.

00:19:53.100 So just as a couple of examples,

00:19:55.020 if you go and you want

00:19:56.180 to buy Lego,

00:19:57.140 certain Lego sets

00:19:58.320 are GST-exempt,

00:19:59.600 other ones not.

00:20:00.500 What would be the difference?

00:20:01.700 Why would it apply

00:20:02.340 to some and not others?

00:20:05.160 Apparently,

00:20:05.840 it is if the Lego set

00:20:06.880 is oriented at children,

00:20:09.300 it is going to be GST-exempt.

00:20:11.360 So that,

00:20:12.020 we're apparently to go

00:20:12.960 with what's on the manufacturer's

00:20:14.620 suggested age group

00:20:16.540 for the particular toy.

00:20:18.380 Model planes

00:20:19.140 that are oriented at kids

00:20:20.740 are GST-exempt,

00:20:22.080 at adults are not.

00:20:24.480 We have all sorts

00:20:26.060 of administrative questions

00:20:27.460 pouring into our offices

00:20:29.080 across the country.

00:20:30.600 A gift basket

00:20:31.440 that includes some food,

00:20:33.000 but say a coffee mug in it.

00:20:35.180 What's that?

00:20:35.920 How is that going to be taxed?

00:20:37.600 These are judgment calls

00:20:38.960 that business owners

00:20:39.660 are having to make.

00:20:40.640 A hobby store in Calgary

00:20:42.500 said that they have

00:20:43.320 3,500 items

00:20:44.560 and they have to go through

00:20:46.300 every single one

00:20:47.980 and make judgment calls

00:20:49.720 as to whether

00:20:50.360 it remains taxable

00:20:51.620 or is not taxable

00:20:53.320 during this period of time.

00:20:54.460 And if they make a mistake,

00:20:55.640 Ezra,

00:20:56.140 they're going to have

00:20:56.840 an audit

00:20:57.480 from the Canada Revenue Agency

00:20:58.840 in March or April

00:20:59.860 demanding back taxes,

00:21:01.940 penalties, and interest.

00:21:03.160 This is nuts.

00:21:05.020 You know,

00:21:05.400 I understand the point

00:21:06.620 because of course

00:21:07.280 everyone wants lower taxes, 0.96

00:21:08.600 but if it's just

00:21:09.080 for a two month,

00:21:09.980 I'm going to call

00:21:10.800 that a gimmick

00:21:11.520 because if it was real,

00:21:13.360 it would be permanent.

00:21:14.500 I'm sure a lot of companies

00:21:16.740 had paperwork issues

00:21:18.660 when Harper took the GST

00:21:20.240 down from 7% to 5%,

00:21:22.440 but they knew

00:21:23.100 it was a one-time thing.

00:21:24.520 It was fairly straightforward

00:21:25.720 and I think they liked

00:21:27.500 the fact it was a tax cut.

00:21:29.300 This is a two month blip

00:21:30.820 and, you know,

00:21:32.880 I go to a dollar store

00:21:34.600 in my neighborhood occasionally

00:21:35.720 and I can just imagine

00:21:37.460 the hundreds and hundreds

00:21:38.880 and by the time

00:21:40.600 you do it

00:21:41.660 and it's starting

00:21:42.720 in less than two weeks

00:21:43.960 and by the time

00:21:44.880 you do it,

00:21:46.180 it's almost time

00:21:46.840 to undo it.

00:21:48.020 That is no gift

00:21:49.640 to anyone.

00:21:51.720 No,

00:21:52.100 and look,

00:21:53.120 for these retailers,

00:21:54.240 they've also announced

00:21:55.200 this just a couple

00:21:56.520 of days ago.

00:21:57.440 The legislation,

00:21:58.280 for goodness sakes,

00:21:58.800 isn't even passed.

00:21:59.800 I was at the Senate

00:22:00.440 Committee last night

00:22:01.300 reviewing the legislation,

00:22:03.460 for goodness sakes,

00:22:04.200 and here we are

00:22:06.180 in the busiest

00:22:07.600 possible season

00:22:08.760 for small business owners

00:22:10.760 where it's make it

00:22:11.640 or break it.

00:22:12.320 If they don't do well

00:22:13.220 during the Christmas

00:22:13.980 and holiday season,

00:22:15.480 many of them

00:22:15.980 are just done

00:22:16.860 and so they are now

00:22:18.560 having to put in place

00:22:20.680 this complicated system.

00:22:21.900 In fact,

00:22:22.580 it even gets worse

00:22:23.380 than that.

00:22:24.340 They have to continue

00:22:25.220 to charge the tax

00:22:26.280 until December 13th

00:22:27.740 when the store closes

00:22:28.600 so your dollar store

00:22:29.440 has to do that,

00:22:30.240 say,

00:22:30.400 until 9 p.m.

00:22:31.520 on December 13th,

00:22:32.600 Friday night.

00:22:33.120 Saturday morning,

00:22:34.340 they have to have

00:22:35.140 in place

00:22:35.640 the proper system

00:22:36.940 to make sure

00:22:37.520 that they're not

00:22:38.160 charging GSD

00:22:39.200 or HSD

00:22:39.820 at that moment

00:22:40.720 and as a result,

00:22:42.520 they have to,

00:22:43.040 that evening,

00:22:44.060 do the computer programming

00:22:45.360 to make that happen

00:22:46.720 but they can't do it

00:22:47.500 beforehand

00:22:47.900 otherwise they will have

00:22:49.420 not charged the tax

00:22:50.580 when they are supposed to.

00:22:52.160 These are judgment calls.

00:22:53.540 The CRA is not even

00:22:54.800 in a position

00:22:55.340 to give guidance

00:22:56.220 on most issues.

00:22:57.720 We've got a litany

00:22:59.560 of examples

00:23:00.320 of complex situations.

00:23:02.560 As you said,

00:23:03.280 when the GSD

00:23:03.780 was first introduced,

00:23:04.820 there was a,

00:23:05.300 I mean,

00:23:05.440 that's how we ended up

00:23:06.080 with the six donut rule

00:23:07.220 where you pay GSD

00:23:08.560 if you buy five

00:23:09.720 but you don't pay GSD

00:23:10.860 if you pay six.

00:23:11.600 Well,

00:23:11.820 at least you only had

00:23:12.520 to do that one time.

00:23:13.900 You didn't have to

00:23:14.480 switch it on,

00:23:15.420 switch it off

00:23:16.200 on a dime here

00:23:17.420 as we are right now.

00:23:19.120 You know,

00:23:20.660 I mean,

00:23:21.500 when I go into shops

00:23:22.760 these days,

00:23:23.260 I have a different mindset.

00:23:24.840 I feel very sympathetic

00:23:26.680 with the entrepreneurs

00:23:28.300 and I feel sympathetic

00:23:29.580 for the,

00:23:30.600 typically,

00:23:31.240 the young cashiers

00:23:32.780 who were,

00:23:33.400 because all I can think of

00:23:34.380 is how do you live

00:23:35.800 in these expensive

00:23:37.060 housing markets

00:23:38.760 if you're making,

00:23:40.340 like I just,

00:23:41.200 I look at a business,

00:23:42.740 I look at a restaurant

00:23:43.580 different than I probably

00:23:44.780 did 10 years ago.

00:23:46.080 Maybe it's just

00:23:46.600 my own experience.

00:23:47.740 And my point

00:23:48.640 for mentioning that,

00:23:49.400 Dan,

00:23:49.620 is

00:23:49.920 was there anyone

00:23:52.680 at the cabinet table

00:23:54.180 who has done

00:23:56.180 the hard work?

00:23:56.980 Like,

00:23:57.620 I think of,

00:23:58.780 I mean,

00:23:58.980 just think of a corner store,

00:24:00.100 think of a convenience store,

00:24:01.200 think of a gas station attendant.

00:24:02.820 You're on your feet

00:24:04.120 all day.

00:24:05.260 You're making 30 cents here,

00:24:07.200 a dollar here.

00:24:07.980 You know,

00:24:08.180 a long time ago,

00:24:09.040 I got to know

00:24:09.820 the Ontario Korean

00:24:11.240 Businessmen's Association.

00:24:12.680 I actually worked

00:24:13.040 for them briefly,

00:24:13.560 I should disclose.

00:24:15.100 They work their tushes off 1.00

00:24:16.940 364 days a year.

00:24:18.540 Maybe they close

00:24:19.340 on Christmas.

00:24:20.520 And they're making

00:24:21.380 a buck here,

00:24:21.980 a few pennies there.

00:24:23.640 And,

00:24:23.960 and I wonder

00:24:25.680 if there is anyone

00:24:26.800 from that world,

00:24:28.760 Dan,

00:24:29.680 who was around

00:24:30.660 the decision-making table

00:24:31.860 because it sounds

00:24:32.720 like it was a bunch

00:24:33.500 of people

00:24:33.960 whose only life experience

00:24:35.640 is online

00:24:37.340 or working

00:24:39.240 for an NGO

00:24:40.200 or a government agency.

00:24:42.140 No one has had

00:24:43.380 a job

00:24:43.840 where they're

00:24:44.220 on their feet

00:24:44.940 12,

00:24:46.220 14 hours a day

00:24:47.280 making money

00:24:48.300 30 cents at a time,

00:24:49.460 which is what it's like

00:24:50.100 in the convenience store business.

00:24:52.100 And I'm just thinking

00:24:52.800 a dollar store,

00:24:53.600 convenience store,

00:24:54.340 and restaurants.

00:24:55.300 And I don't know,

00:24:57.480 Dan,

00:24:57.760 is there anyone

00:24:58.840 within Trudeau's

00:25:00.380 advisors

00:25:01.300 or his cabinet

00:25:02.100 who has ever lived

00:25:03.120 the life

00:25:03.720 of a small business person?

00:25:06.020 It is hard to find.

00:25:07.680 I can tell you

00:25:08.680 that this was designed

00:25:09.920 with political calculations

00:25:11.320 in mind

00:25:12.040 and not much else.

00:25:13.640 This was designed

00:25:14.320 to curry the support

00:25:15.220 of the NDP

00:25:15.820 because the NDP

00:25:16.840 had put forward

00:25:17.560 a list of items

00:25:18.860 to permanently

00:25:19.780 exempt GST,

00:25:20.960 HST from

00:25:21.780 and that was

00:25:23.560 the main impetus

00:25:25.020 behind this

00:25:26.320 particular decision.

00:25:27.840 Look,

00:25:28.200 again,

00:25:28.900 small businesses

00:25:29.460 don't mind

00:25:30.220 trying to help

00:25:30.860 their customers

00:25:31.520 save some money.

00:25:33.600 But to all

00:25:34.840 of the administrative

00:25:35.800 costs

00:25:36.440 to put this in place

00:25:37.900 are going to exceed

00:25:38.900 for many

00:25:39.360 the value

00:25:40.060 of any additional

00:25:40.940 dollars

00:25:41.400 their customers

00:25:42.060 may be able

00:25:42.600 to spend

00:25:43.060 in these businesses.

00:25:44.400 I've talked

00:25:44.780 to restaurant owners

00:25:45.620 that were almost

00:25:46.740 in tears.

00:25:47.920 One guy

00:25:48.460 was going through

00:25:49.480 every bottle of beer

00:25:50.700 because the way

00:25:51.600 he read the bulletin

00:25:52.600 said that it was

00:25:53.420 beer, wine,

00:25:54.520 and mixed drinks

00:25:55.600 that contained

00:25:56.540 less than 7% alcohol.

00:25:58.220 So he was trying

00:25:58.780 to figure out

00:25:59.320 how to,

00:25:59.820 for each beer,

00:26:00.980 determine what button

00:26:01.960 to press

00:26:02.440 to exempt the GST

00:26:03.460 if it had under 7

00:26:04.700 or what button

00:26:05.700 to press if it had over

00:26:06.700 only for then

00:26:08.120 me to clarify

00:26:09.040 just because

00:26:09.660 I've been dealing

00:26:10.880 with this for a couple

00:26:11.820 of days now

00:26:12.440 to say,

00:26:13.320 no,

00:26:13.540 it's all beer,

00:26:14.520 all wine,

00:26:15.240 and it's only

00:26:15.760 spirit coolers

00:26:16.780 under 7%,

00:26:17.560 but it kind

00:26:18.680 of illustrated

00:26:19.300 the point

00:26:19.880 that for business owners

00:26:21.400 that are trying

00:26:22.080 to do what they can,

00:26:23.160 they want to stay

00:26:24.140 in compliance

00:26:24.660 with government,

00:26:25.140 they don't mind

00:26:25.940 trying to help

00:26:26.500 their customers

00:26:27.060 save a buck or two,

00:26:28.660 but this is not

00:26:29.960 the way.

00:26:30.480 It is a hot mess

00:26:31.540 and there are

00:26:32.560 a thousand better ways

00:26:34.160 to reduce

00:26:34.840 the burden

00:26:35.920 on Canadians

00:26:36.820 than a temporary

00:26:38.060 two-month holiday.

00:26:39.040 For one thing,

00:26:40.360 get rid of the

00:26:40.980 carbon tax

00:26:42.220 that is going up

00:26:43.820 by 19%

00:26:44.820 six weeks

00:26:45.940 after this holiday

00:26:47.500 ends.

00:26:48.020 Like,

00:26:48.460 we're lowering

00:26:49.280 prices for two months

00:26:50.680 and then permanently

00:26:52.240 raising taxes

00:26:53.740 six weeks

00:26:55.120 after the holiday

00:26:56.000 ends.

00:26:56.540 Like that,

00:26:57.320 for retailers,

00:26:58.820 for businesses

00:26:59.520 in general,

00:27:00.680 this is a mess.

00:27:01.880 It's such a tease

00:27:03.380 to say for two months

00:27:04.600 we'll give you

00:27:05.060 this very complicated,

00:27:07.140 very narrow

00:27:07.960 group of

00:27:08.960 discounts and breaks.

00:27:10.920 And you're so right

00:27:11.920 that six weeks

00:27:12.940 late you got whiplash

00:27:13.900 because carbon taxes

00:27:14.820 go up,

00:27:15.700 which,

00:27:15.900 I mean,

00:27:16.300 Polyev has turned

00:27:17.020 it into a talking

00:27:17.840 point,

00:27:18.180 but it's true.

00:27:19.160 Anything that moves,

00:27:20.860 if it moves,

00:27:21.840 if it keeps you warm

00:27:23.240 in the winter

00:27:24.360 or cool in the summer,

00:27:25.360 it's going to be

00:27:26.640 using carbon.

00:27:27.700 And frankly,

00:27:28.160 that's the point

00:27:28.800 of the carbon tax.

00:27:29.560 If you ask them

00:27:30.740 why they do it,

00:27:31.760 it's,

00:27:32.360 you know,

00:27:32.580 I don't know

00:27:33.060 if you remember

00:27:33.480 Stefan Dion

00:27:34.220 15 or so years ago,

00:27:36.020 he used the phrase,

00:27:36.880 you know,

00:27:37.600 carbon shift

00:27:38.420 or green shift

00:27:39.220 to try and change

00:27:40.540 your social behavior.

00:27:41.400 So if you actually

00:27:42.060 say,

00:27:43.140 well,

00:27:43.260 how is the carbon tax

00:27:44.500 going to save the world?

00:27:45.480 It's designed

00:27:46.180 to sort of push you

00:27:47.200 away from certain behaviors

00:27:48.780 as in keeping warm

00:27:50.960 in the winter,

00:27:51.460 moving things around.

00:27:52.400 So they don't deny

00:27:54.200 that not only

00:27:56.120 is the tax painful,

00:27:57.760 they say that

00:27:58.700 that is the point

00:27:59.800 of it to get you

00:28:00.680 to stop doing

00:28:01.580 those things.

00:28:02.620 I think,

00:28:03.240 I don't know,

00:28:03.840 I just wish

00:28:04.740 we could reconsider that

00:28:06.300 because like I said

00:28:07.400 a few moments ago,

00:28:09.460 I think that

00:28:10.320 environmentalism

00:28:11.680 and making,

00:28:13.500 and Trudeau gave

00:28:14.160 an interview recently

00:28:14.840 where he says

00:28:15.360 people should prioritize

00:28:16.600 climate change

00:28:17.540 in their life

00:28:18.080 over meat and potatoes issues.

00:28:20.360 I think that is

00:28:21.380 out of sync with the times.

00:28:22.840 I think there's

00:28:23.380 real poverty out there

00:28:24.740 and I just don't know

00:28:26.000 if he can swallow

00:28:27.780 his pride

00:28:28.380 and,

00:28:28.740 you know,

00:28:29.660 delay that carbon tax hike.

00:28:31.320 I think he's so dead set

00:28:32.560 on it ideologically

00:28:33.560 and he's not the kind

00:28:34.820 of guy who blinks.

00:28:36.340 I don't know.

00:28:36.800 I'm just very sad

00:28:38.700 about this

00:28:39.100 and you've told me

00:28:39.700 things that are

00:28:41.020 sort of laughable

00:28:42.160 like you go,

00:28:42.920 ha,

00:28:43.420 because they're shocking

00:28:44.320 but there's no comedy

00:28:45.840 here at all.

00:28:46.920 These are livelihoods.

00:28:49.580 It is.

00:28:50.200 Look,

00:28:50.380 behind every counter

00:28:51.200 of a small business

00:28:52.620 is somebody

00:28:53.220 just trying to make a living.

00:28:54.520 Somebody that's trying

00:28:55.340 to do the right thing,

00:28:56.600 pay their employees,

00:28:57.900 keep the lights on

00:28:59.100 and build some wealth

00:29:00.820 for their family

00:29:01.380 for the future

00:29:02.040 but it has been,

00:29:03.680 it has been really,

00:29:05.120 really tough

00:29:05.800 over the last number

00:29:06.720 of years.

00:29:07.160 We are at the point now

00:29:08.380 where only a quarter

00:29:10.020 of Canada's entrepreneurs

00:29:11.400 would recommend

00:29:12.280 to the next generation

00:29:13.380 to start a small business.

00:29:14.860 Oh my gosh.

00:29:15.840 This is really alarming.

00:29:16.940 We actually have now

00:29:17.960 more businesses leaving

00:29:19.200 than entering

00:29:20.720 for the first time

00:29:21.880 in 40 years.

00:29:23.440 More business exits

00:29:24.740 than enters.

00:29:25.820 Those are really

00:29:27.100 worrisome statistics

00:29:28.060 and this is among

00:29:29.140 the people

00:29:30.140 who have chosen

00:29:30.980 entrepreneurship

00:29:31.560 as their profession.

00:29:33.300 We've done just

00:29:34.160 about everything

00:29:34.780 to discourage them

00:29:35.980 along the way.

00:29:37.760 83% of small businesses

00:29:39.180 now oppose the carbon tax,

00:29:40.740 want to see

00:29:41.260 the federal carbon tax

00:29:43.040 gone

00:29:43.580 and we're increasing it.

00:29:46.000 At the very least,

00:29:46.900 if we had a couple

00:29:47.640 extra billion dollars,

00:29:49.100 let's press pause

00:29:49.960 on the increase

00:29:51.140 that we're planning

00:29:51.980 for April the 1st

00:29:53.280 as we explore options

00:29:55.120 to get rid

00:29:55.600 of the whole structure.

00:29:57.280 Dan,

00:29:57.440 you've been generous

00:29:58.020 with your time

00:29:58.460 and there's just

00:29:58.880 two more things

00:29:59.420 I want to put to you

00:30:00.260 and you alluded

00:30:00.840 to one before.

00:30:02.180 I mean,

00:30:03.040 when there's a tax change,

00:30:04.780 the CRA tries to help.

00:30:07.560 They really do.

00:30:08.460 I mean,

00:30:08.720 we can all be frustrated

00:30:09.880 with them

00:30:10.340 and you wait

00:30:10.800 on the phone for hours

00:30:12.000 but their purpose

00:30:13.580 is to help

00:30:14.080 but if they don't know

00:30:14.960 what the final rules are,

00:30:16.200 if it hasn't actually

00:30:17.000 been passed into law yet

00:30:18.680 and the regulations

00:30:19.580 and I don't know,

00:30:20.620 maybe it sounds like

00:30:21.360 they're sort of

00:30:21.900 trying to do it,

00:30:22.920 build the plane

00:30:23.440 while they tax you

00:30:24.140 down the runway,

00:30:25.800 there's got to be

00:30:26.660 a smarter way

00:30:27.680 to make policy

00:30:29.520 than just give people,

00:30:31.700 give everyone

00:30:32.220 a couple weeks notice.

00:30:33.420 Is that even lawful?

00:30:35.200 Can the executive office,

00:30:38.120 there's the legislative

00:30:39.320 and there's the executive,

00:30:40.460 can the prime minister

00:30:41.320 just sort of wave a wand

00:30:43.060 and say,

00:30:43.840 this is the new tax rate

00:30:45.020 if it hasn't been debated

00:30:46.740 and heard in committees

00:30:49.720 and voted on?

00:30:51.160 Does the government

00:30:52.400 have the power

00:30:52.980 to do that?

00:30:54.360 Well, there's two

00:30:55.100 recent policies

00:30:56.000 I'll use as an example

00:30:57.000 on these lines.

00:30:57.780 This GST-HST holiday,

00:30:59.960 I think it is incredibly

00:31:01.520 unfair the way

00:31:02.880 that they are implementing it

00:31:03.980 but at least

00:31:05.320 it appears

00:31:06.060 that the legislation

00:31:06.940 will be passed

00:31:08.100 before December 14th

00:31:09.860 and as a result,

00:31:10.980 that will be

00:31:11.620 the law of the land

00:31:12.420 and businesses

00:31:12.900 have to do their best

00:31:13.900 to comply with it.

00:31:15.640 That's one thing.

00:31:16.900 The short notice

00:31:17.820 is deeply unfair

00:31:19.400 but at least

00:31:19.920 it will be law.

00:31:21.280 I'll take you back though

00:31:22.700 Ezra to the 0.95

00:31:23.420 capital gains increase,

00:31:24.720 the inclusion rate increase

00:31:25.800 from 50% to two-thirds

00:31:27.460 that was announced

00:31:28.160 as part of the

00:31:28.800 April 2024 budget.

00:31:30.580 If you can believe it,

00:31:32.140 that has not even

00:31:33.480 been introduced

00:31:34.540 in the House of Commons

00:31:35.700 as legislation

00:31:36.740 eight months later.

00:31:39.480 We are eight months,

00:31:41.040 this is now the law,

00:31:42.120 this is now being

00:31:42.860 actually implemented

00:31:44.240 by the CRA

00:31:45.280 because there is

00:31:47.000 custom in Canada

00:31:48.280 that if a tax

00:31:49.300 change is announced,

00:31:51.060 then the CRA

00:31:52.020 will begin to implement

00:31:53.100 it in advance

00:31:54.080 of the legislation,

00:31:54.760 assuming the legislation

00:31:55.900 is passed.

00:31:57.400 But we are now

00:31:58.300 in uncharted territories

00:31:59.660 in Canada

00:32:00.260 because we have now

00:32:02.120 put in place rules

00:32:03.120 that went into effect

00:32:04.000 June 25th, 2024,

00:32:06.680 the legislation

00:32:07.460 for which has not

00:32:08.520 even been introduced

00:32:09.400 in the House of Commons

00:32:10.280 not a single debate

00:32:11.200 over this.

00:32:12.620 This is how scary

00:32:14.260 this is.

00:32:14.860 So we are now

00:32:15.680 consulting constitutional

00:32:17.220 people to help

00:32:18.540 understand this better.

00:32:20.900 There is a chance

00:32:21.980 this whole capital gains

00:32:22.960 thing could just 0.99

00:32:23.600 get flushed down

00:32:24.220 the toilet

00:32:24.640 because parliament

00:32:25.300 is not functioning

00:32:26.000 right now.

00:32:26.940 You know,

00:32:27.800 that's a technical

00:32:28.640 area of law,

00:32:29.600 administrative law,

00:32:30.640 constitutional law,

00:32:32.100 and it's beyond

00:32:33.360 my knowledge.

00:32:33.940 I think it's a fairly

00:32:34.580 obscure thing.

00:32:35.580 Dan, it reminds me

00:32:36.540 of an Alberta case

00:32:38.160 during the COVID

00:32:39.120 pandemic times

00:32:40.700 where,

00:32:41.820 I forget the name

00:32:42.360 of the case,

00:32:42.780 but the law

00:32:44.120 wasn't introduced

00:32:45.480 by the right party.

00:32:47.300 I don't know

00:32:47.780 the technical,

00:32:48.420 it was a very

00:32:48.900 technical decision

00:32:49.820 that the policy

00:32:51.640 came from the wrong

00:32:52.780 person in the wrong

00:32:53.840 way.

00:32:54.700 So all the cases,

00:32:56.580 all the tickets,

00:32:58.060 all the charges

00:32:58.700 were thrown out

00:32:59.500 because it wasn't

00:33:00.700 introduced the right

00:33:01.560 way.

00:33:02.020 And I think that's

00:33:02.620 how it ought to be,

00:33:03.320 by the way.

00:33:03.760 The government

00:33:04.160 shouldn't be able

00:33:05.280 just to,

00:33:06.240 they should be held

00:33:07.320 to the rules.

00:33:08.660 So that's...

00:33:08.940 Well, I just had

00:33:10.020 a constitutional expert

00:33:11.120 share with me

00:33:12.100 that in the UK,

00:33:13.660 governments can

00:33:14.420 introduce a policy

00:33:15.260 that then can take

00:33:16.080 legal effect in advance

00:33:17.140 of the legislation

00:33:17.740 passing,

00:33:19.560 but they have a time

00:33:20.420 limit to do that.

00:33:21.320 And if they don't,

00:33:22.280 the government has

00:33:22.840 to refund the money

00:33:23.780 that has been collected

00:33:24.580 in that period of time.

00:33:26.040 We would be well past

00:33:27.300 that in Canada now.

00:33:29.020 And it is something

00:33:30.000 that we're looking

00:33:30.640 into seriously

00:33:31.460 at CFIB.

00:33:33.040 That is heartbreaking.

00:33:34.540 And I don't know

00:33:35.280 why I'm feeling

00:33:36.240 a little emotional

00:33:37.120 talking about this.

00:33:38.480 It's because,

00:33:39.020 you know,

00:33:39.300 everywhere I go now,

00:33:40.360 I feel the economic stress.

00:33:43.200 I see it in people's eyes.

00:33:45.440 And this is just

00:33:48.120 an unnecessary stress.

00:33:51.780 And hearing your discussions

00:33:53.040 with individual business people,

00:33:54.780 trying in good faith

00:33:55.800 to figure it out.

00:33:56.600 Let me ask you

00:33:57.040 one last question, Dan.

00:33:57.880 You've been so generous

00:33:59.200 with your time today.

00:33:59.980 I don't want to keep you

00:34:00.900 too much longer,

00:34:01.580 but there's a company

00:34:02.580 I've been watching

00:34:03.280 out of the corner of my eye,

00:34:04.300 and we use this company

00:34:05.380 ourselves.

00:34:06.340 It's called Shopify.

00:34:08.100 Shopify.

00:34:08.420 It's a great Canadian

00:34:09.500 tech success story.

00:34:11.680 It's basically

00:34:12.220 an interface

00:34:13.200 to allow people

00:34:14.080 to sell things

00:34:15.380 on the internet.

00:34:16.680 You've probably seen it

00:34:17.980 on many ways.

00:34:19.800 All over the place.

00:34:20.340 Yeah, it's very successful.

00:34:22.400 And the entrepreneurs

00:34:23.460 behind it

00:34:24.320 are public-spirited guys.

00:34:26.580 Like, they seem like

00:34:27.120 really good guys.

00:34:27.580 I've never met them,

00:34:28.260 but I follow them

00:34:29.180 on Twitter.

00:34:30.140 And I remember

00:34:30.720 years ago,

00:34:32.600 they were,

00:34:33.160 you know,

00:34:33.560 Trudeau was cool,

00:34:34.820 and he was pro-technology,

00:34:36.320 and so they'd hang out

00:34:37.240 with him.

00:34:38.040 But now I see

00:34:39.360 the founders

00:34:40.300 and the CEO

00:34:41.100 of Shaw,

00:34:43.700 and I don't want

00:34:44.080 to mischaracterize

00:34:44.760 what they're saying,

00:34:45.240 but they're deeply concerned

00:34:46.280 about the path

00:34:47.180 of our country.

00:34:48.580 Part of me thinks

00:34:49.360 they might even leave Canada

00:34:50.760 to go to the States

00:34:52.480 or something.

00:34:53.320 Like, I just feel like

00:34:54.820 they're doing amazing things,

00:34:57.240 allowing people

00:34:57.880 to become entrepreneurs,

00:34:58.940 and even they,

00:35:01.720 and they're sort of,

00:35:02.380 they used to be

00:35:02.960 Trudeau's friends,

00:35:03.820 and they're not

00:35:04.400 political people,

00:35:05.480 but I feel like

00:35:06.440 they're being compelled

00:35:07.240 to speak out

00:35:07.960 because Canada

00:35:08.900 is so crazy these days.

00:35:11.000 I think that would be

00:35:11.980 a devastating blow.

00:35:13.260 I mean, I think Trudeau

00:35:14.220 should heed their warning

00:35:15.240 because they're not

00:35:15.780 his enemy.

00:35:16.920 They're not partisan conservatives.

00:35:18.620 If they're speaking out

00:35:19.640 about this now,

00:35:20.560 and I think everyone

00:35:21.580 knows the brand,

00:35:22.300 but they don't know

00:35:22.840 the people behind it.

00:35:23.980 These are wealth creators,

00:35:25.280 opportunity creators,

00:35:26.420 and I think they're terrified

00:35:27.860 for what they see

00:35:28.640 in Canada.

00:35:28.920 Do you have any relationship

00:35:30.240 with those guys?

00:35:31.020 Do you know who they are?

00:35:32.360 Have they spoken to you at all?

00:35:34.120 Because they are the king

00:35:35.240 of independent business, right?

00:35:36.780 They're the tool.

00:35:37.520 I bet you most of your members

00:35:38.520 use them.

00:35:40.460 It's ubiquitous now

00:35:41.780 among small and medium-sized firms.

00:35:43.460 Shopify has done a great job

00:35:44.900 of building out networks.

00:35:46.900 In fact, they're not just

00:35:47.700 for e-commerce.

00:35:48.740 I saw this weekend

00:35:49.780 visiting a toy store in Toronto.

00:35:51.980 The in-store payments

00:35:53.460 were powered by Shopify too.

00:35:55.840 A big, big company,

00:35:57.240 huge success story.

00:35:58.240 But the entrepreneurs

00:35:59.460 have been very clear.

00:36:00.600 You and I are following them

00:36:01.720 the same way on Twitter.

00:36:03.400 They've been very concerned

00:36:04.480 about the changes

00:36:05.740 in capital gains treatment

00:36:07.160 in terms of what it's going to say

00:36:08.840 about the possibility

00:36:10.360 of building success in Canada.

00:36:12.440 And the whole point

00:36:13.920 of lower rates of taxation

00:36:15.100 on capital gains

00:36:15.960 is to allow people

00:36:17.000 to reinvest those dollars

00:36:18.440 to continue to grow businesses

00:36:21.300 and grow companies.

00:36:22.800 Often in the tech world,

00:36:23.940 you basically reward people

00:36:26.320 through some shares that grow

00:36:28.680 as opposed to being able

00:36:30.380 to pay them

00:36:30.940 what they would be worth

00:36:32.140 in the private sector.

00:36:33.580 And we're changing

00:36:34.480 a lot of the foundational rules

00:36:36.440 that have encouraged people

00:36:37.620 to take risks on their own.

00:36:40.000 For goodness sakes,

00:36:40.680 we can't have everyone

00:36:41.580 working in the public sector

00:36:42.980 if we want to have a country

00:36:45.100 that actually has tax dollars

00:36:47.360 to support the social programs

00:36:49.620 on which many Canadians

00:36:50.780 support themselves.

00:36:52.660 So this is deeply worrisome.

00:36:55.220 We're running the risk

00:36:56.420 of killing the goose

00:36:57.180 that lays the goat and eggs.

00:36:58.580 And I am very, very worried

00:37:00.800 about the spirit of entrepreneurship

00:37:02.260 from what I'm seeing in Canada.

00:37:04.940 You know, when I started doing this

00:37:06.280 30 years ago,

00:37:07.820 the most frequent question

00:37:09.060 I had from a business owner

00:37:10.240 is which of my three kids

00:37:11.620 do I want to groom

00:37:12.800 to take over the business?

00:37:14.600 Now I'm more likely to hear

00:37:15.920 from business owners,

00:37:17.200 I don't want any of my three kids

00:37:18.880 or two kids these days

00:37:20.620 to take over the business.

00:37:22.380 I don't want to have them

00:37:23.240 go through the same hell

00:37:24.240 that I've gone through

00:37:25.320 over the last couple of decades.

00:37:27.780 And how disappointing is that?

00:37:29.780 That entrepreneurs

00:37:30.460 don't want their kids 0.97

00:37:31.680 to have to go through

00:37:32.620 the struggles of red tape

00:37:34.020 and paperwork and high taxes

00:37:35.560 that they've had to go through

00:37:36.940 as they try to build a company,

00:37:39.380 build a brand,

00:37:40.420 or contribute back

00:37:41.640 to their local communities.

00:37:42.900 That needs to change

00:37:44.560 and it needs to change real fast.

00:37:46.520 Dan, that's such a sorrowful thing

00:37:48.060 you've just said.

00:37:49.020 You know, it reminds me

00:37:50.320 of something I like to think about

00:37:52.520 sometimes about the free market

00:37:53.980 where both, you know,

00:37:55.720 it's a funny thing

00:37:56.680 and I don't think

00:37:57.160 it's just a polite courtesy.

00:37:58.920 Why is it when you buy something

00:38:00.560 in a convenience store

00:38:02.020 or a small business,

00:38:03.080 when you buy it,

00:38:04.260 you say thanks,

00:38:05.800 but the store says thanks.

00:38:07.200 Like how come both people

00:38:08.820 are saying thank you

00:38:09.840 other than courtesy?

00:38:11.280 It's because both people

00:38:12.300 came out ahead, right?

00:38:14.600 Both people,

00:38:15.300 you got something

00:38:16.140 you thought was valuable

00:38:17.320 and you thought was worth it

00:38:18.800 and they sold it to you

00:38:19.860 in a way that they could

00:38:20.720 make a go of it.

00:38:21.700 It was the mutual,

00:38:23.480 happy trade

00:38:25.640 and everyone came out ahead.

00:38:28.240 And I just feel like

00:38:29.500 we're losing the opportunity

00:38:31.900 of the free market

00:38:32.840 and like you say,

00:38:33.940 the public sector

00:38:35.340 is growing unrelentingly.

00:38:37.960 It's boom times.

00:38:39.360 It's never been better

00:38:40.440 in the public sector

00:38:41.840 and they're driving out

00:38:43.080 the small guys

00:38:43.900 and the medium guys

00:38:44.660 and you are raising the alarm.

00:38:48.060 And the reason I mentioned

00:38:49.000 the Shopify guys

00:38:50.360 is because they are not

00:38:52.000 built to be politicians,

00:38:53.440 but they just can't

00:38:54.980 stay silent anymore.

00:38:56.140 I think we're in trouble

00:38:57.480 and I tell you,

00:38:58.460 the next election

00:38:59.080 can't come soon enough.

00:39:00.200 I know you guys

00:39:00.860 at the CFIB

00:39:01.540 are non-partisan,

00:39:02.920 so I won't ask you

00:39:04.820 to comment on that.

00:39:05.980 But boy,

00:39:06.560 I think the whole world

00:39:07.880 needs to shake up

00:39:08.600 in this country.

00:39:09.140 Dan, it's really great

00:39:09.700 to connect with you

00:39:10.460 and I wish you

00:39:11.420 and your members

00:39:11.940 good luck

00:39:12.460 and hopefully

00:39:14.120 this will be

00:39:14.700 a good Christmas season

00:39:15.780 for them

00:39:16.220 and tax relief

00:39:17.420 will come soon.

00:39:19.160 Thanks so much,

00:39:19.720 Ezra.

00:39:19.920 Good to be with you.

00:39:20.680 Likewise.

00:39:21.520 There you have a Dan Kelly.

00:39:22.700 He's with the Canadian 1.00

00:39:23.440 Federation of Independent Business.

00:39:24.800 You can follow him

00:39:25.600 at cfib.ca

00:39:27.840 or on Twitter.

00:39:29.780 Stay with us.

00:39:30.700 More ahead.

00:39:31.200 Your letters to me.

00:39:44.260 This is about when

00:39:45.600 some pro-Hamas supporters

00:39:47.080 actually,

00:39:48.240 I'm not going to say

00:39:48.920 stormed Parliament,

00:39:50.480 but they entered

00:39:51.560 into Parliament

00:39:52.360 and had a little insurrection.

00:39:55.260 Wozniakor says,

00:39:56.140 The whole House of Commons

00:39:57.460 was silent.

00:39:58.320 Not one member

00:39:59.100 said a word.

00:39:59.740 No one will be fired

00:40:01.100 for this breach.

00:40:01.760 Nothing.

00:40:02.360 Remember when veterans

00:40:03.200 were stopped

00:40:03.680 from going to the war memorial?

00:40:05.380 Some are much more equal

00:40:06.420 than others.

00:40:06.840 You're talking about

00:40:07.620 the comparison

00:40:08.700 with the trucker convoy

00:40:10.080 when the National War Memorial

00:40:11.740 was locked down,

00:40:12.880 when the riot police

00:40:14.100 were dispatched.

00:40:15.300 I remind you again

00:40:16.120 that the truckers

00:40:16.740 did not enter

00:40:17.320 any parliamentary building.

00:40:18.380 They stayed in their trucks

00:40:19.160 and on the streets.

00:40:20.540 Here you had an actual

00:40:21.880 insurrection,

00:40:23.760 if you want to use

00:40:24.400 that language,

00:40:25.960 trespassing,

00:40:27.400 intimidating Parliament,

00:40:28.460 and there were some arrests

00:40:30.040 but they were all let go.

00:40:32.000 It's just incredible

00:40:32.800 the double standard.

00:40:33.760 Tommy D says,

00:40:34.660 This is unacceptable.

00:40:36.780 As a Canadian,

00:40:37.480 these people need to be charged

00:40:38.620 and jailed.

00:40:39.540 What if a half dozen

00:40:40.820 of them had guns?

00:40:41.920 They could literally

00:40:42.720 take Parliament.

00:40:44.700 I hope they weren't stupid

00:40:46.060 enough to have brought guns,

00:40:47.260 but a forcible invasion

00:40:50.320 of a public building

00:40:51.600 for a political purpose

00:40:53.100 that does feel

00:40:54.200 a little bit like

00:40:54.900 Section 51

00:40:55.680 intimidating Parliament.

00:40:56.720 Perhaps 565 says,

00:41:00.520 Free the hostages now.

00:41:03.200 Isn't it funny

00:41:04.340 how Democrats

00:41:05.760 in the U.S.

00:41:06.660 and the Canadian government

00:41:07.820 have just stopped

00:41:08.440 even mentioning that,

00:41:09.740 whereas Donald Trump

00:41:10.620 published a statement

00:41:12.120 of social media

00:41:12.920 threatening,

00:41:13.880 holy hell,

00:41:15.060 raining down

00:41:15.760 on those who still

00:41:17.440 have hostages

00:41:18.100 when he takes office

00:41:19.380 in January.

00:41:20.060 It's going to be

00:41:20.400 an interesting time.

00:41:22.360 Well, that's our show

00:41:23.200 for today.

00:41:24.260 Until next time,

00:41:25.080 on behalf of all of us

00:41:26.040 here at Rebel World

00:41:26.700 Headquarters,

00:41:27.420 to you at home,

00:41:28.020 good night,

00:41:28.940 and keep fighting

00:41:29.820 for freedom.

00:41:30.340 We'll be right back.

Rebel News Podcast - December 06, 2024

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Trudeau wants to campaign against Trump, not fix Canada's porous borders

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript