The first time I ve ever seen a mainstream media journalist ask anything approaching a tough question to a Trudeau cabinet minister about mass immigration. I ll take you through it and give you my thoughts, interspersed with some rants.
00:00:00.280Hello, my friends. First time I've ever seen a mainstream media journalist ask anything approaching a tough question to a Trudeau cabinet minister about mass immigration.
00:00:09.660I'll take you through it and give you my thoughts interspersed.
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00:05:22.800I think like so many other cabinet ministers, he just, like, reads what's put in front of him.
00:05:27.240I don't know if you saw this clip from – oh, my God, this clip from Melanie Jolie the other day who was – you know, her hands were out and she was – and she used the phrase supply chain.
00:05:39.040And, boy, if I had been there, I would have said, can you give me a simple definition of the word supply chain?
00:05:45.580Because I don't think she knows what it means, but she sort of likes saying it.
00:05:49.920Here's Melanie Jolie talking about supply chains.
00:05:52.960I've got to get me a few of those supply chains.
00:05:55.500To talk about different issues that are important to Canadians, including, of course, what is happening in the world.
00:06:02.760We know that a lot of the geopolitical instability is causing a lot of anxiety with Canadians.
00:06:12.240And also, we know that affordability issues are linked to the fact that there are so many supply chains that have been disrupted because there are so many geopolitical tensions.
00:06:21.420And we saw it again today with what happened in Kyiv and across Ukraine.
00:06:26.580And, of course, we condemn these attacks by Russia.
00:06:30.040And at the same time, we saw it yesterday with the Hezbollah attack on Israel and Israel standing to protect its own security.
00:06:44.120Yeah, Mark Miller is – I don't know.
00:06:49.540I think he's about the same skill level as Melanie Jolie, which is a devastating insult.
00:07:17.020This is not about Ukrainians and we all know it.
00:07:19.900It is a fact that many countries around the world took Ukrainians at the beginning of the war.
00:07:24.920We even saw some of that in Ireland when we went to see – now, the Ukrainians actually have fit in fairly well in most cases where they've been welcomed as refugees.
00:07:36.060And I think there's a few reasons for that.
00:07:37.420First of all, people don't feel that they're being ripped off in a deep way when you have someone coming from an actual war zone.
00:07:47.200I don't think anyone would say what war in Ukraine.
00:07:51.260There are some questions about why any men would leave, shouldn't you say, and fight for your country.
00:07:56.500But in the cases of families, I think people understand.
00:08:00.940Ukrainians, many of them do speak English.
00:08:02.980But even if they don't, there is some cultural similarity, someone coming from Europe, that maybe someone coming from, say, Somalia or another place doesn't have.
00:08:11.440So Mark Miller was playing on – he was playing the Ukrainian card with sort of his way of saying if you don't accept refugees, well, surely you're a racist.
00:08:21.480But no, no, no, no, the Ukrainians have not made up large numbers of refugees in Canada for a long time.
00:08:30.660If you look at this chart of this year, the number one source of refugees – I'm not talking about student visas or temporary foreign workers.
00:10:12.240In the temporary foreign workers space, people working in the agricultural sector, transformation in Tim Hortons, we've seen an overheating that needs to be adjusted ever since the end of COVID.
00:10:22.840And that's something I think every Canadian expects us to do.
00:10:25.840Those numbers do affect affordability.
00:10:28.460And not all those people can become permanent residents.
00:10:30.780So the announcements that we made today, that Minister Boasino made today, are sort of a smart reflection of what we need to do to ramp that down back to what looks like pandemic, pre-pandemic levels.
00:10:42.120Yeah, blaming COVID as the reason for high immigration, it makes no sense in any means.
00:10:51.540I mean, first of all, during COVID, we had mass unemployment.
00:11:28.960Because, for example, if you look at, you know, temporary residents who hold work permits, that number has increased by 150% over two years.
00:11:36.120It was 60%, not just low wage, I'm speaking more broadly.
00:11:39.020It was up 60% last July, year over year.
00:11:42.760Why did your government wait until just this January to start addressing one stream of it, and now to address the rest of it?
00:11:48.080And could you not have addressed things earlier in order to mitigate some of the issues your Canadians are now dealing with?
00:11:53.340I'd say 2020 hindsight is always something we can indulge in.
00:12:00.580As a thoughtful government, you always have to reflect on what you could have done faster, what you should do, what you shouldn't do.
00:12:05.020I'd simply say this, the labour shortages that we saw even a year ago are no longer there.
00:12:11.480Markets are contracting, labour markets are contracting.
00:12:14.580And there's no longer the needs for the people that we were bringing in in those amounts to be here or to come to Canada.
00:12:27.780It's very possible in some areas it did.
00:12:30.220I think now it's quite obvious that we do have to adjust.
00:12:33.720Yeah, he keeps coming back to an economic argument about how economically wonderful mass immigration is.
00:12:43.300But do you think for a second that he's blind to what he's actually doing, the political ramifications of bringing in 2 million people a year?
00:12:50.560The social and cultural ramifications?
00:12:54.320So it is technically true that if you add someone to the Canadian economy, even if you add an unemployed, illiterate person to the country, you do increase the GDP.
00:13:08.440Because someone has to house him, feed him, clothe him.
00:13:12.240If he gets into trouble with the law, the criminal justice system has to deploy.
00:13:18.880The welfare system may have to deploy.
00:13:20.520So it is true, no matter who you bring to this country, whatever their skill level or however troublesome they are, yeah, you're going to get that GDP growing by a little bit.
00:13:30.280But it's going to make us all poor in the mean.
00:13:33.940And that's what's happened, is to juice the economy.
00:13:36.640They brought in more and more people to hide the fact that we're actually getting poor individually.
00:13:43.000You can grow the size of the pie, so to speak, by adding more people.
00:13:48.520But every slice that belongs to us here gets smaller.
00:13:52.320We are getting poor on a per capita basis.
00:13:55.140Every individual in Canada on an average basis is getting poorer.
00:13:58.900And they're just bringing in mass immigration to try and hide that here.
00:14:09.760It's very possible in some areas it did.
00:14:12.240I think now it's quite obvious that we do have to adjust.
00:14:16.200As a minister, I have a responsibility to look forward and figure out what we need to do next to make sure that we have a number of temporary workers here that make sense for addressing affordability, for addressing the needs.
00:14:27.900But there's also the risk of over-adjusting and damaging the economy.
00:14:31.260The International Monetary Fund has said quite clearly that immigration has been a huge fuel in making sure that we didn't plunge into a recession like other countries in our situation.
00:14:39.400And there has been some benefits that the Bank of Canada has clearly highlighted with some challenges that have come with it in and around housing, in and around affordability.
00:14:47.460And Canadians, as we've heard quite clearly over the course of the last year, have asked us to make some adjustments.
00:16:02.400You know, you learn how to obey a boss.
00:16:04.520You learn how to deal with customers who are a bit of a pain in the neck without showing it.
00:16:08.460That first job, although it doesn't pay a lot, it teaches you things to be ready for the second job, the next rung on the ladder.
00:16:14.800You can't really get to the next rung if the first rung is cut off because 2 million people a year are ahead of you in line because Trudeau thought he would employ India, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Mexico.
00:16:26.780It hasn't been necessarily what it was a year ago.
00:16:29.520But the Canadian press, I remember a number of months ago, reported that your predecessor received a briefing two years ago in which it was clearly outlined that both the temporary and permanent stream would have a salient impact on affordability.
00:17:17.520And then we treated Jody Wilson-Raybould.
00:17:19.280All right, here, watch a little bit more.
00:17:20.460And I think Canadians should see them and judge us for them.
00:17:25.040But there are also risks in not taking those decisions and not taking those plunging into a recession, a real concern that would affect all Canadians.
00:17:32.280Currently now with rising interest rates, it's obvious that we do have to make a number of adjustments that economists are looking at and expecting us to make in terms of changes.
00:17:59.320He says Canada would be in a recession if they weren't just ramming through as many people as possible, thousands per day.
00:18:07.060And they're doing that because, like I say, if you bring someone to Canada, no matter how strong or how weak, you will just grow the economy because now we've got to take care of somebody.
00:18:16.520But that's not making any of us richer.
00:18:19.240On a per capita basis, we've been in a recession in Canada for years.
00:18:24.060I think that's one of the reasons they're doing it, to hide it.
00:18:39.520And that is something that, under your government, has been a very specific policy measure.
00:18:43.660We're now at about half a million going to be.
00:18:45.200And the last time we spoke to you about this issue, you said the latest plan showed that level staying there for the next two years.
00:18:51.880Can you expand on what kind of things your government is considering?
00:18:55.860Are you considering, very bluntly, a reduction in permanent immigration?
00:19:00.140Well, we are actually looking at a number of options.
00:19:02.980When I paused the levels last year, it was with an undertaking to talk to Canadians and see what those levels look like or should be.
00:19:10.940There has been significant growth, I think for good reason, in the last few years.
00:19:15.740That economic growth, again, has been indispensable in making sure that the gross domestic product of the country has grown, that the entrance into the workforce, all driven by immigration, was assured.
00:19:26.500You know, he talks about half a million permanent residents, which is a shockingly high number.
00:20:16.580Why is that the conversation happening right now?
00:20:19.140And I ask with respect specifically to permanent, because every interview I've conducted with you or the housing minister over the last year,
00:20:25.080you have been very insistent that what was driving the ills associated with immigration was on the temporary side of things.
00:20:31.460And I even remember in January asking you this question about permanent, the permanent stream.
00:20:35.260And you said, like, questions in that, you know, you were kind of hearing a lot of questions in that area.
00:20:39.440And some of them had undertones of racism.
00:20:41.420Like, that is the way that your government pushed back against questions about permanent residency.
00:20:45.160And now, at one of the most politically vulnerable times for your party, you're willing to look at cutting those numbers.
00:20:52.200Look, I'm not going to presume that racism doesn't exist, but there are legitimate views within Canadian society of people I would never think of calling them racist.
00:21:22.660The premier of Quebec said that if they sent home all of Trudeau's foreign workers, 300,000 people from Quebec, immediately would solve the housing crisis.
00:21:32.320And how could you possibly dispute that?
00:21:34.740If you took out 300,000 people from the housing market in Quebec, not only would those 300,000 homes be available, but it would reduce pressure for everyone.
00:21:46.080It wouldn't just be 300,000 people could find homes.
00:21:48.840It's that the prices for everyone else would subside.
00:21:53.380Would your government have been more entertaining to those views previously?
00:21:56.620Well, I think we should always be open to these points of views.
00:21:58.900The conversations that I have, for example, around the Easter table, Christmas table, they're different views.
00:22:02.900Some people have a different view on immigration than I do.
00:22:05.740This is a country that has largely benefited and built an amazing consensus around immigration.
00:22:11.620But again, we're hearing from different parts, different parts of Canada, different people in my own family that have different views on immigration.
00:22:18.760I think we owe it as a responsible government to listen to them, even if we don't.
00:22:25.480Well, I guess a few months ago he would have said, even my own family has racist because I guess now that some liberals are admitting immigration is too high, they're going to stop calling people racist.
00:22:47.880Where can we have a sustainable level within the levels that we see with other countries of the OECD and have a conversation that's devoid of racism, but also reflective of what different people are thinking.
00:22:57.660Both people from diasporas that we brought in, but also Canadians that have been here perhaps a little longer.
00:23:02.580And I think that is what, that's what Canadians expect.
00:23:05.540What does that even mean to have a conversation devoid of racism?
00:23:10.800So he's saying, all right, I'm going to allow you to talk about immigration now, but only if you don't get all racist-y on me.
00:23:18.460By which he means you can't question why we're receiving refugees from India.
00:23:25.260You can't question why we're essentially letting these fake diploma mills, Acumen Academy, to sell, they're basically selling immigration for 10 or 20 grand in tuition.
00:24:47.660But in the back of my mind, I think, are we just in an echo chamber?
00:24:52.760Am I just talking to people that I know will generally be on my side of things?
00:24:57.380And that is one of the values of a public opinion poll, because as the public part of public opinion poll shows, you're going outside your friend group.
00:25:07.500That's why you need a statistically valid sample size.
00:25:10.920You need enough people that, on average, it's going to reflect what the larger population says.
00:25:58.620But astonishingly, its viewership falls year after year, even though their budget grows and the Canadian population grows.
00:26:06.540I don't know how you can do that in a growing population, have a shrinking viewership when you have a monopoly, when you're forced onto every cable package.
00:26:14.320But what I love about this story today, and in about a minute, I'm going to introduce our speaker on the subject, our interviewee, is that this confirms that all the liberal blather and all the media party blather about the CBC being an absolutely essential institution.
00:26:33.600Joining me now to talk about this is the man who commissioned the poll, and I credit him for that, is our friend Franco Teresano, who is the boss over at the Taxpayers' Federation.
00:26:45.080Franco, first of all, good for you for coming up with the idea, because it's a reality check, isn't it?
00:26:51.080Because who do you believe, taxpayers' advocates or the establishment?
00:27:00.880I mean, Canadians are just sick and tired of the government taking our money and handing out big bonus checks to the fat cats at the state broadcaster.
00:27:09.480Now, to rewind for one second, you folks will remember that the CBC just rubber-stamped another new batch of bonuses to the tune of $18 million.
00:28:07.400And this Leger poll shows that 7 in 10 Canadians are against the CBC bonuses.
00:28:12.660The vast majority of Canadians want the government to end these bonuses, but it gets worse for the CBC and the federal government because, Ezra, if you remove the undecideds, then 81% of Canadians don't support these bonuses at the state broadcaster.
00:28:32.460Yeah, I'm looking at your stats here, and this is from Leger, which is actually one of the largest Canadian pollsters, very credible.
00:28:40.060We've used Leger before, I trust them.
00:28:43.080Only 16% of Canadians positively say, no, no, pay the bonuses.
00:28:48.900I was just reading, I was skipping ahead in your press release here a little bit.
00:28:53.260You quote the unlikeliest source to support you.
00:28:58.140I mean, if I had to make a list of the most diehard CBC supporters in the country, we'd put the Liberal Party in there.
00:29:06.280But then there's this obscure lobby group that is always quoted by the CBC.
00:29:10.720They call themselves Friends of Canadian Broadcasting.
00:29:13.660They are so connected to the government and the CBC.
00:29:16.300It's basically like a puppet saying, like it's a ventriloquist.
00:30:58.140I think they had some goofy phrase about management incentives.
00:31:03.400Like, they were trying to even cover it up.
00:31:07.520I'm hopeful in my bones that if Pierre Paulyev wins the next election, something's going to change here
00:31:14.100because I have never seen a politician at that level of credibility, as in he, according to every poll that's been published for the last year,
00:31:22.140looks like he may win the next election.
00:31:24.100I've never seen a politician at that level.
00:31:25.840I mean, Maxime Bernier, who I have a lot of affection for, he says it all the time, but he's not on the precipice of becoming prime minister.
00:31:33.820So Pierre Paulyev, very frequently, it's one of his number one applause lines in speeches, said he's going to defund the CBC.
00:31:42.140It's almost like Donald Trump campaigning in 2016 about building the wall.
00:31:45.760He says it every time, and my point to you, Franco, is you say something a thousand times, you make a lot of promises.
00:32:16.420Would you break it up and sell the pieces?
00:32:18.640Do you guys have any opinions on that?
00:32:20.780I sure hope Pierre Paulyev is thinking this through because that's going to be a promise people want him to keep day one.
00:32:26.200So Ezra, I have a couple thoughts on that.
00:32:29.260So maybe don't let me get too far astray.
00:32:31.320But, you know, number one, whenever you have an advocacy group or maybe a political opposition party that is saying cut spending, the establishment politicians, the establishment bureaucrats, they want to drag you into the weeds.
00:32:46.760They want, their tactic is to try to make Canadians believe it's so tactically hard or so tactically impossible that you just can't cut that spending.
00:32:56.460But when it comes to the CBC, the government could essentially immediately defund it.
00:33:02.960Okay, so what would have to happen is a couple steps.
00:33:05.540But number one, you got to just cut the flow of tax dollars going to the state broadcaster, right?
00:33:11.460And it's the politicians, it's cabinet, they're the ones who control the public purse strings.
00:33:16.280So the most important thing, I think, for your audience, Ezra, to remember is don't get sucked into the technicalities.
00:33:22.680It can happen, it should happen, and we have to keep pressure on this government or a future Paulyev government, if that is to happen, to actually live up to the promises that Mr. Paulyev has made.
00:33:35.020Because they're good promises to defund the CBC.
00:33:38.480Now, in terms of all the assets, the buildings and stuff, like there's a couple different things you could do.
00:33:43.100Number one, you could sell it, that would be our preferred line of going, you could turn it into housing, make it available for housing for people to buy voluntarily.
00:33:53.240But you know, Ezra, let me just add one more thing here.
00:33:56.480Not only has Mr. Paulyev said he's going to defund the CBC, but on the Canadian Taxpayers Podcast,
00:34:02.020he even said that he would end the bonuses for failing government authorities, which include not just the CBC, but also the Bank of Canada.
00:34:12.440Because this type of extravagance and bonuses is happening all across the federal government.
00:34:19.820You know, it's really quite something when government sector bosses who have a monopoly, who never risk bankruptcy,
00:34:29.820who in many cases don't have real competitors, like the Bank of Canada.
00:34:33.980There's no competitor to the Bank of Canada.
00:34:35.780That's part of the problem is they have such a monopoly over things.
00:34:38.340But they give themselves lavish bonuses as if they were bankers at a merchant bank in New York City, you know, fighting with the other banks and dog-eat-dog working 18 hours a day like, you know, some stockbrokers.
00:34:52.500Like they, in their mind, like Catherine Tate, the president of the CBC, in her mind, must think she's a great media tycoon, even though she runs a government, not quite a monopoly, but it's larger than all other Canadian news media combined.
00:35:09.620She's failing by every metric other than diversity by her own measure.
00:35:14.380And yet she's giving herself raises as if she's running Fox News and being profitable, as if she's a winner.
00:35:22.500It really gets me the self-delusion of these people who think they're rock stars in the corporate world.
00:35:28.400They're losers who pay themselves like rock stars.
00:36:00.060Well, it's great to see you again, Franco.
00:36:01.840The taxpayers are the good guys, that's for sure.
00:36:04.440And you know what I know in my bones is that, God willing, if Pierre Polyev becomes prime minister,
00:36:09.740I know that you guys are going to be just as dogged at holding him to account and keeping his promises and advocating for the taxpayers then as you are now with Trudeau's prime minister.
00:36:20.200In fact, in some ways, it becomes even more important because we need people who believe in small government to keep an eye on conservatives because a lot of other people say that's our team.
00:36:32.060We can't criticize, I know from watching you over the decades, that the Taxpayers Federation is truly nonpartisan.