Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Will an oil pipeline actually be built under Liberal PM Mark Carney？

00:00:00.000 Tonight, will an oil pipeline actually be built under Liberal Prime Minister Mark Carney?

00:00:04.740 I'm a bit of a skeptic, but we'll tell you what happened today in Calgary.

00:00:07.640 It's November 27th. This is the Ezra LeBant Show.

00:00:10.440 You've got it for freedom!

00:00:13.360 Shame on you, you censorious bug! 0.92

00:00:25.160 Oh, hi everybody. I'm standing in the McDougal Center. 0.95

00:00:28.640 That is the equivalent of the legislature, but here in Calgary.

00:00:33.160 It's the provincial head office for the Premier in Calgary.

00:00:36.560 I'm standing with my friend, our senior reporter, our chief reporter, Sheila Gunn-Reed.

00:00:40.640 Hey Ezra, I am a skeptic of what happened here today.

00:00:44.500 I think that the province, although they got a lot of wins, they did get a lot of carve-outs.

00:00:49.620 I feel like we're going down the whole social license road that we went with Rachel Notley.

00:00:54.720 If we concede to all these green things, that we'll get to build a pipeline.

00:00:59.620 And that didn't happen in four years under Rachel Notley, and that was her plan to get pipelines built. 1.00

00:01:05.220 Just to back up for a second, a couple of days ago, rumors started circulating.

00:01:09.660 I think Rick Bell of the Calgary Sun was the first one with it.

00:01:12.480 I think that, oh my God, was there a deal between the Alberta Premier and the notorious anti-oil extremist, Mark Carney.

00:01:18.820 When I say he's an anti-oil extremist, it doesn't look like Stephen Golgo, a madman, criminal convict, scaling the CN Tower in a Greenpeace stunt.

00:01:28.500 He looks actually the opposite. He always wears the $5,000 suits. I'm talking about Mark Carney.

00:01:33.300 But he's actually been a far more effective anti-oil extremist.

00:01:36.500 For years, he led the UN's anti-carbon agenda, and he was ahead of something called the Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero,

00:01:45.780 which is exactly what it sounds like.

00:01:47.720 It was an attempt to get investment firms like Brookfield Asset Management, like BlackRock, like State Street, to have a capital strike.

00:01:56.900 By that I mean to say to oil companies, if you don't support carbon credits and do all these BS environmentalist things,

00:02:05.880 we will basically shut off all investments to you, even though the people who were saying this, it wasn't their money.

00:02:12.540 I mean, BlackRock, Brookfield, they manage other people's money.

00:02:15.880 So it was a kind of extortion.

00:02:17.700 And you may recall that the U.S. Congress actually investigated GFANS, the Glasgow Financial Alliance, and they interrogated Mark Carney.

00:02:26.680 I think that's something that has not been widely reported.

00:02:29.220 Anyways, so here's a guy who, for more than a decade, has hated the oil patch and has done everything he could to attack the oil patch.

00:02:36.360 And now suddenly he signed a memorandum of understanding that would, if the best outcome were to happen, have a one million barrel a day pipeline to the West Coast.

00:02:48.480 I don't know.

00:02:49.580 I'm such a skeptic, Sheila, because this guy is a smarter Stephen Gilbeau.

00:02:55.080 The premier today seemed to suggest she was hopeful.

00:02:59.380 Well, and the thing is, there's no private sector partner right now.

00:03:03.400 And that's a key condition of this memorandum of understanding, is that it has to be a private sector partner.

00:03:08.660 I'm grateful for that.

00:03:09.500 I think the government shouldn't be building pipelines.

00:03:11.320 We saw what happened with Trans Mountain, 800% over budget, way late.

00:03:16.420 But there's not that partner yet.

00:03:18.800 And looking at this, I think, why would there be a partner?

00:03:22.480 When you have, you know, these upstream emissions, carbon taxes being slapped on these projects,

00:03:29.060 and the guy who wrote values in the prime minister's office, you are going to look to more favorable investment climates,

00:03:35.500 like the United States, who doesn't have any of these regulations and has a mantra of drill baby drill.

00:03:40.860 Just a week ago, a large mineral company called Nutrien, it's a fertilizer company based in Saskatchewan,

00:03:47.280 they decided to have a port to export their good stuff.

00:03:50.700 They didn't decide to go to Canada.

00:03:52.860 They go, go to the U.S. 0.98

00:03:54.700 and build a port in Washington State.

00:03:58.000 Can you imagine, a Canadian company has done the math,

00:04:00.880 and at a risk-adjusted rate of return, they say it's smarter business

00:04:04.680 for us to go through a foreign country than our own country.

00:04:08.520 It's sort of comical to see the Premier of British Columbia up at arms about this

00:04:12.040 when he's the guy blackballing all these pipelines.

00:04:14.900 Anyways, I want to let you know that Sheila and I had a bit of a role today

00:04:17.940 because out of, I think, eight or 12 questions put to the Premier of Alberta,

00:04:21.720 we had four of them.

00:04:22.880 Let me start by showing you, here's an excerpt of Danielle Smith's remarks today

00:04:27.240 where she makes the case for this MOU. 0.93

00:04:30.240 MOU stands for Memorandum of Understanding.

00:04:32.200 It's sort of like a baby contract.

00:04:35.480 It's like a...

00:04:35.880 A deal for a deal.

00:04:36.460 That's right.

00:04:36.980 It's a promise of a promise.

00:04:38.180 Here, take a look.

00:04:38.880 This agreement means Alberta will work with our federal partners

00:04:42.080 and the Pathways companies to commence and complete

00:04:45.320 the world's largest carbon capture, utilization, and storage infrastructure project.

00:04:49.420 It will also make Alberta heavy oil the lowest intensity barrel on the market

00:04:54.520 and displace millions of barrels of heavier emitting fuels around the globe.

00:04:58.860 This is Alberta's moment of opportunity.

00:05:01.340 Our opportunity to show the nation, as well as the entire world,

00:05:04.720 that resource development and emissions reduction can not only coexist,

00:05:08.720 but can actually complement one another for the benefit of billions of people around the world.

00:05:13.800 Alberta is willing to take on and conquer the challenge as partners with the federal government.

00:05:17.980 Now, I need to be clear.

00:05:19.860 The government is just...

00:05:21.600 This agreement with the government is just the first step in this journey.

00:05:25.500 There is much more hard work to be done.

00:05:27.940 Trust must be built and earned in the partnership as we move through the next steps of this process,

00:05:33.040 whether that be working with the federal government

00:05:34.840 to prepare our bitumen pipeline submission for the major projects office,

00:05:39.080 or putting together the final elements of a carbon pricing agreement

00:05:43.020 that will be implemented through the province's tier program

00:05:46.400 that balances competitiveness with accountability for heavy emitters.

00:05:50.360 And although I am not blind to the fact that the people of Alberta

00:05:53.180 have had the rug pulled out from underneath them too many times to count over the past 10 years,

00:05:57.860 I also know that a new relationship and a new beginning

00:06:00.780 needs a starting point grounded in good faith.

00:06:03.500 And today, I hope, is that new starting point.

00:06:08.060 Well, I flew in from Toronto, as you know, and Sheila came down from northern Alberta.

00:06:12.520 And so we weren't going to be caught snoozing.

00:06:15.900 We got in line at the journalism microphone, and I threw a couple of mics in here,

00:06:20.940 and I found which one of the journalists...

00:06:22.180 I asked around, which one do the journalists get in?

00:06:24.720 And there was a lady from Global News who was ahead of us, good for her. 1.00

00:06:27.660 And then I was in second, and Sheila was in third.

00:06:30.520 And the rest of the government journalists were steaming mad.

00:06:34.320 Scoffing. 0.99

00:06:34.880 It was just like at the leaders' debates.

00:06:38.740 Remember when we were in Montreal, the CBC building,

00:06:41.120 and all these independent journalists got to the microphones faster

00:06:43.940 than the sloppy government journalists?

00:06:46.800 Well, that happened here again.

00:06:48.040 So I was up second.

00:06:49.500 This lovely lady from Global News was ahead of me. 1.00

00:06:51.700 Full marks to her. 0.85

00:06:52.840 And I want to show you my two questions.

00:06:54.280 I confess they were a little bit speechifying.

00:06:58.080 You know, who would have thunk it?

00:06:59.740 Here's my questions to Danielle Smith and her answers.

00:07:03.120 Take a look.

00:07:04.080 Hi, Premier.

00:07:04.680 Ezra Levant from Rebel News.

00:07:08.240 The first deadline in the MOU, if I'm reading it right,

00:07:11.880 is April, where the duty is on Alberta to jack up carbon taxes.

00:07:18.820 And the last date in the MOU, if I'm reading it right,

00:07:22.700 correct me if I'm not, is 2040.

00:07:25.320 That's when this pipeline, you know, that's sort of the end date.

00:07:28.860 It can't be any later than that.

00:07:30.900 In terms of building trust with the anti-oil liberals,

00:07:35.280 they're asking Alberta to raise carbon taxes now

00:07:38.940 for a promise of an oil pipeline years

00:07:42.060 or even more than a decade in the future.

00:07:44.440 Does that really build trust?

00:07:46.040 Well, you have to start somewhere.

00:07:48.980 And one thing I would say is that we did have the Supreme Court of Canada

00:07:53.880 rule on the federal government's ability to set a price on emissions.

00:07:59.000 So the Supreme Court has ruled on that.

00:08:01.240 It's part of the reason why we negotiated a stringency agreement

00:08:04.700 that would have seen the carbon tax price go up to $170 a barrel by 2030.

00:08:11.480 We've demonstrated, and I think the Prime Minister agrees,

00:08:14.920 that's too high too fast.

00:08:16.420 So that's why we understand that there was always going to be a negotiation around that.

00:08:21.660 We froze the carbon tax at $95 pending consultation with the industry

00:08:25.500 and greater work with the Prime Minister.

00:08:27.920 But remember, Alberta was the first to have an industrial carbon price.

00:08:31.420 They did in 20.

00:08:32.120 We implemented that in 2007.

00:08:34.620 It's generated revenues that have allowed us to invest billions of dollars

00:08:37.900 in new technologies, including carbon capture.

00:08:40.040 So there is a commitment on the part of the industry to have a carbon price.

00:08:44.600 And we did do some consultation on that.

00:08:46.620 We're just glad that we have the means to manage it our way in Alberta under our tier program.

00:08:52.420 And we'll see as of April 1st.

00:08:55.080 And no, that wasn't a joke.

00:08:56.520 April 1st is going to be the date that we have an agreement on that front.

00:09:01.880 When it comes to the building of a bitumen pipeline to Asian markets to the BC coast,

00:09:08.640 if you read the MOU, those two things have to happen in tandem,

00:09:11.840 that we have to see the Pathways project proceeding at the same time

00:09:15.220 as an agreement to build that.

00:09:17.120 One is dependent on the other.

00:09:19.060 I don't know that the Prime Minister would have agreed to a new bitumen pipeline without Pathways,

00:09:22.700 and we wouldn't have agreed to Pathways without a new bitumen pipeline.

00:09:25.380 So they are going to be staged.

00:09:27.580 They are going to go on together.

00:09:28.840 We've already had a meeting with Pathways about how we're going to do that.

00:09:32.600 That will require a trilateral negotiation as well.

00:09:36.200 But I'm very hopeful.

00:09:37.940 Since we have used carbon capture technology before for enhanced oil recovery,

00:09:42.220 that's another part of this announcement is that CO2 will be able to be used

00:09:46.180 for enhanced oil recovery, which should allow us to generate more revenue.

00:09:54.520 So I would say that you don't always get 100% of what you want,

00:09:58.300 but we addressed seven out of the nine bad laws that I'd put on the table

00:10:02.620 to, I think, what will be the satisfaction of Albertans.

00:10:05.640 And I think that this will allow us to see some substantial investments.

00:10:10.620 I mean, that's the thing about a peace deal.

00:10:12.620 You have to make it with an enemy.

00:10:14.180 So I suppose the fact that for a decade, his Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero,

00:10:19.780 it was about putting a capital strike on the oil and gas sector.

00:10:24.340 Just a couple of weeks ago, he was asked about pipelines, and he said, boring.

00:10:29.800 So is there anything – I mean, after a lifetime of attacking the oil patch,

00:10:36.300 he was even interrogated by the U.S. Congress for an attempt to capital strike their oil companies.

00:10:42.100 Is there anything the prime minister has said to you in private that you could share with us

00:10:48.880 that would signal that his lifetime's work of attacking carbon-based fuels will somehow be put to the side?

00:10:58.420 Like, I think he's just a slightly smarter version of Stephen Gilbeau.

00:11:02.220 I think he hates the oil patch as his life's work.

00:11:06.180 Is there anything he's said to you that make you believe that maybe he has – he can be turned on this?

00:11:14.280 Well, I'll start by saying my joke has been that I would love for pipelines to be boring again.

00:11:19.140 I would love for, no matter what party is in power, what level of government,

00:11:24.020 that there wasn't sort of an overwrought response anytime anyone talked about building a pipeline.

00:11:29.780 It's actually quite remarkable that we're talking about expanding uranium mines,

00:11:34.460 building nuclear power plants, building new transmission lines through pristine areas,

00:11:39.260 massive new mining projects, and not one of them has raised any ire on the part of any environmental group

00:11:45.460 or anyone in the media, but there has been all of this ire raised around a pipeline.

00:11:51.020 So I hope that we can make pipelines boring again because it's just a way to get our product

00:11:55.100 to the consumers who need it.

00:11:58.640 And I would say that, as you know, I was not a huge champion of carbon capture technology

00:12:06.000 when I was in politics the first time.

00:12:07.820 I wasn't.

00:12:08.580 But I've seen with the passage of time the investments being made and the fact that the technology works

00:12:13.440 and we're getting better and better at it and you can create a product out of it

00:12:17.200 so that you can enhance oil recovery.

00:12:19.720 I changed my mind.

00:12:20.580 And so I would say that the Prime Minister, maybe in the past 10 years, it looked like wind and solar and batteries were going to be the ability to power industrial economies.

00:12:30.520 I think the world discovered that's not true with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, with the instability in the Middle East.

00:12:36.040 Everyone is having to recalibrate and rethink that.

00:12:38.700 I was recently in the Middle East and the conversation around the table now was talking about natural gas as a foundational fuel, not a transition fuel.

00:12:46.920 So I think that demonstrates that there is a global understanding of how important it is to have reliable electricity.

00:12:54.220 And so I have to just give the Prime Minister credit for perhaps he's recalibrating his own thinking on this.

00:13:02.080 It certainly seems to be in the agreement that we signed, but we will trust, but we will verify.

00:13:07.620 We will make sure that he lives up to the commitments in this agreement that we had.

00:13:12.940 And we have to proceed somewhere with a measure of good faith.

00:13:15.960 I can tell you 100% that the former Prime Minister would never have moved this far on these issues.

00:13:21.860 We tried for three years.

00:13:23.160 We got nowhere.

00:13:24.360 And in my very first meeting with the Prime Minister, I said to him,

00:13:28.720 you know, the way that we can get to an agreement is just orienting around a 2050 target.

00:13:33.800 Our industry is there.

00:13:35.240 We think it's achievable with technology.

00:13:37.020 And you'll see in the context of this MOU that the interim targets are gone.

00:13:41.920 And so that's what we're going to move forward on.

00:13:45.660 And we'll see as we meet these milestones whether I'm correct or whether your skepticism is correct.

00:13:52.480 Thanks.

00:13:53.160 Thanks, Cessera.

00:13:54.140 Well, what do you think of that?

00:13:55.280 I think it's my role to be a skeptic because we can't all say, oh, yes, I'm totally trustworthy that this lifelong, decades-long enemy of the oil patch is suddenly our ally.

00:14:06.940 You've got to be a bit of a skeptic.

00:14:08.640 What do you think?

00:14:09.560 Well, I think so, too.

00:14:10.700 I mean, yes, it could potentially be a very big day for Alberta.

00:14:15.400 They have done hard work negotiating to get this deal for a deal dime.

00:14:19.960 But we have to always remember who we're dealing with.

00:14:23.000 And a leopard doesn't change his spots that quickly.

00:14:25.660 It's like the scorpion and the toad crossing the stream.

00:14:28.240 When the scorpion kills the frog, the frog says, what did you do?

00:14:31.940 And the scorpion says, it's in my nature.

00:14:33.780 It's the old Aesop's fable.

00:14:36.100 Sheila, you were next in line behind me.

00:14:38.240 But as a generous collegial courtesy, you let someone go in front of you.

00:14:43.160 They're very nice of you.

00:14:43.940 But then you did get a couple of questions yourself.

00:14:46.520 Let's take a look at those.

00:14:47.400 Sheila Gunn-Reed with Rebel News, just staying on the topic of British Columbia.

00:14:52.200 The prime minister has said in the House of Commons just two days ago,

00:14:56.440 we believe the government of British Columbia has to agree.

00:14:59.880 Now, just now, after he left the signing with you, his press release says,

00:15:04.900 these projects will only be built in consultation and partnership

00:15:08.720 with Indigenous rights holders and British Columbia.

00:15:12.180 So what is the real strength of this MOU when you have a partner who keeps giving veto to British Columbia?

00:15:20.460 Well, you'll see in the agreement there's no mention of veto.

00:15:23.780 I think that there obviously has to be trilateral discussions with British Columbia

00:15:28.400 to find areas of common ground, and I think we will.

00:15:30.600 And there's also clearly going to have to be a formal consultation process with Indigenous bands,

00:15:37.720 and we're prepared to do all of that.

00:15:40.400 What I have seen is that there have been a number of projects in British Columbia

00:15:46.780 that may have started off with a lot of opposition that over time got a lot of enthusiasm.

00:15:52.280 Look at all of the LNG projects down the coast.

00:15:54.420 Look at Coastal Gas Link.

00:15:55.520 Look at the opportunity now for additional LNG projects.

00:15:59.300 Look at even the Premier of British Columbia talking about expanding TMX.

00:16:05.700 That was not the conversation that was happening five or six years ago.

00:16:09.260 So I would say that some of it is in the proving.

00:16:12.200 You have to prove that you're listening, prove that you are being genuine in the consultation,

00:16:17.160 genuine in addressing the environmental and other issues that are raised,

00:16:20.600 and that's what we intend to do.

00:16:21.580 We intend to be involved every step of the way to make sure that we're able to bring people on board with this.

00:16:27.460 But it's a process.

00:16:28.660 We know it.

00:16:29.260 This is the first stage of it.

00:16:30.900 But having the Prime Minister agree in principle that getting a million additional barrels to Asian markets

00:16:37.540 is a good thing for us and for Canada, I think that's a major milestone.

00:16:41.400 Now, British Columbia, however, says that they're blindsided.

00:16:44.680 They say they're considering a lawsuit, which could tie up any potential private sector proposal for years.

00:16:51.920 It might even act as a deterrent to a private sector pipeline proposal.

00:16:56.760 Has the Prime Minister given you any assurances that he would use constitutional means,

00:17:01.240 like the notwithstanding clause, to prevent a proposed project from getting bogged down in a legal quagmire for years?

00:17:09.700 Well, I don't think he needs to use the notwithstanding clause because this is federal jurisdiction.

00:17:15.340 Border pipelines, transborder infrastructure, ports, those are all federal jurisdiction.

00:17:21.640 And I think that British Columbia has tried to use every tool in the toolbox, I guess was the term that they used before, and failed.

00:17:28.320 It was clearly affirmed by the courts that this is not British Columbia's decision to make.

00:17:33.460 That being said, we understand that there's a process we have to go through.

00:17:37.880 We understand that Indigenous partnership is key to that.

00:17:41.240 And so we are wanting to get the project to a point where it's on the major projects list,

00:17:45.880 at which point there's a two-year window to get to approval.

00:17:50.280 So we've got our work to do over the next number of months,

00:17:53.480 but that's the commitment on the part of the federal government,

00:17:55.820 is that once something is on the major projects list,

00:17:58.200 it will have a new approach so that it can be approved in two years.

00:18:01.820 And again, trust but verify, we're going to hold them to that.

00:18:04.360 Well, Sheila, you are pointing out the methods by which people kill pipelines in Canada.

00:18:10.780 Go to the courts, bog things down with Indigenous consultations, have a bunch of fog. 1.00

00:18:17.300 And you know what it is, often it's oil companies and pipeline companies saying,

00:18:20.860 you know what, we're going to go to at least a less risky jurisdiction like Kazakhstan.

00:18:26.900 Yeah, Algeria. 0.78

00:18:27.720 I mean, and it's not even a joke, if you look at the companies that have exited Alberta

00:18:33.500 and where they have entered, they have gone to places that are physically, literally dangerous.

00:18:40.000 It's easier to pay off the local warlord than to do business in Canada.

00:18:44.460 And that's just a fact of the oil and gas sector.

00:18:47.260 TC Energy changed its name because of the stigma of being trans-Canada.

00:18:52.960 Wow.

00:18:53.720 You know, and I really like Daniel Smith for a lot of reasons.

00:18:55.940 I've known her since we were in university at the same time, and I respect the fact that

00:18:59.980 she's open to new ideas.

00:19:01.440 She's always been an ideas person.

00:19:03.880 This MOU, Memorandum of Understanding, is a starting point.

00:19:07.640 As I mentioned in my question, April of 2026, there's going to be a jacked-up carbon tax.

00:19:15.720 Like, hang on a second.

00:19:17.040 No pipeline, but the carbon tax goes.

00:19:19.220 It makes me really nervous that the bad guys are getting something before they give something.

00:19:25.460 But as I said in the preamble to my lengthy question, when you make peace, you make peace

00:19:30.540 with an enemy.

00:19:31.780 It's the nature of making peace.

00:19:34.980 Here's what I think that we're going to do going forward.

00:19:39.020 Going forward, it's our job at Rebel News to be skeptical allies of the Premier of Alberta.

00:19:44.260 What I mean by that is, obviously, she has the interests of Alberta and Canada at heart.

00:19:49.120 Obviously, the whole reason she did this MOU was to blast through the liberal barriers. 1.00

00:19:54.120 And as she said to me, or maybe she said it to you, Sheila, Justin Trudeau in 10 years

00:19:58.920 would never have agreed to any of this stuff.

00:20:01.040 And she's got a point there.

00:20:03.440 In fact, I saw a little news story that Stephen Gilboa was having a bit of a reaction in caucus.

00:20:09.000 He was being a little fussy and having a little bit of a pout.

00:20:12.440 That's actually the only thing I've seen in the last day that gives me encouragement.

00:20:16.500 But if our job is to be skeptical and to shine a light of scrutiny on the feds to make sure

00:20:22.820 they live up to Daniel Smith's hopes, then I think that's a right.

00:20:26.260 I don't want to be a cheerleader of this just yet.

00:20:28.540 I want to be a supporter, but with a skeptical eye, because somebody's going to be.

00:20:32.940 Well, and I think I'm not telling any secrets when I say that I am from the oil patch.

00:20:39.060 Everybody in my family works in the oil and gas sector.

00:20:42.080 I would love nothing more than to see a pipeline, a spider web of pipelines actually coming out of Alberta.

00:20:48.140 But today, all the forces of NO are going to mobilize against Daniel Smith.

00:20:54.000 You're going to see an EB tantrum like we haven't seen quite yet. 0.53

00:20:58.000 You're going to see the foreign-funded anti-oil activists reactivate.

00:21:05.240 They never had to work all that hard under Justin Trudeau because he was giving them all that they wanted.

00:21:11.300 But now I think you're going to see the likes of Forest Ethics and whatever tides is calling itself now

00:21:15.780 and all that foreign money flowing in from the United States to activate against any potential pipeline project.

00:21:22.480 And they're going to do it using the coastal indigenous bands to oppose this pipeline.

00:21:28.740 And BC is going to take advantage of that.

00:21:31.040 I think you're right.

00:21:31.820 I think that our side has to stay on the offensive.

00:21:38.560 I think the Keystone XL pipeline, that was another 800,000-barrel-a-day pipeline that was going to go from Alberta to Saskatchewan and then into the States.

00:21:46.160 That has to be revived again.

00:21:48.180 Donald Trump wants it.

00:21:49.420 There's no reason that half-built thing shouldn't proceed.

00:21:51.660 I think that we have to stay on the front foot.

00:21:54.980 Keep moving.

00:21:56.340 If these rumors of Stephen Gilboa having a tantrum or right, that's the best news I've heard.

00:22:00.740 We've got to keep the bad guys on the back foot.

00:22:02.860 But they've got a lot of tricks.

00:22:05.020 And you're going to see, if this is legit, you're going to see people in the liberal government leaking against Kearney.

00:22:13.540 Because there are some true believers who, I mean, you're going to see freakouts from certain parts of the liberal party base.

00:22:22.140 That's one of the reasons I'm a skeptic.

00:22:23.900 I simply don't believe that the liberal party whose chief belief is in their own re-election, they'll do anything to be re-elected.

00:22:30.300 Look, they abandoned the carbon tax to get elected, right?

00:22:32.540 They will do anything to get re-elected.

00:22:35.440 And if this pipeline proposal jeopardizes that, well, they'll do and be whoever they have to be to win.

00:22:42.260 Sheila, I'm really glad you came down.

00:22:43.420 Thank you for that.

00:22:44.180 I'm glad I came out, too.

00:22:45.760 Of course, Mark Kearney took no questions from anybody.

00:22:50.060 And didn't stand with her in this announcement.

00:22:52.240 Wasn't that interesting visually.

00:22:54.660 But I'm glad we were here.

00:22:55.860 I hope you are glad we were here, too.

00:22:58.000 And I hope you don't mind my questions.

00:22:59.880 Sheila's questions were better.

00:23:00.860 Mine were a little speech, you're fine, but it's in my nature.

00:23:04.380 Listen, that's the show for today.

00:23:05.900 And we're going to be up in Edmonton for the United Conservative Party conference in a couple days.

00:23:13.020 I'm excited about that.

00:23:14.140 It'll be interesting to see what the delegates, a lot of the people who are members of the party at the conference, are in the oil and gas industry.

00:23:21.300 They hate the liberals as much as I do.

00:23:23.780 I'll give them that.

00:23:24.880 So it'll be interesting to see.

00:23:26.020 What do you think we're going to see up there at the conference?

00:23:27.580 Do you know what?

00:23:28.620 I think we're going to see the separatist movement really involved in the United Conservative Party AGM.

00:23:38.140 Because I think, really, it's a circle.

00:23:40.840 The Venn diagram of United Conservative Party supporters and people who want to see separation.

00:23:45.440 I think they see Premier Smith as an adequate caretaker until those things happen.

00:23:51.420 I think the separatists are going to play a strong role in the AGM, as well as parental rights legislation, free speech legislation.

00:24:01.020 I think some of those policy issues are going to make it to the floor.

00:24:04.560 Do you know, I can't remember if we set up a special website for the conference yet.

00:24:09.780 UnitedConservatives.ca.

00:24:11.900 And you can come to our meet and greet.

00:24:14.720 Oh, that's right.

00:24:15.540 I'm going to be there.

00:24:16.160 Sheila's going to be there.

00:24:16.720 We're going to have a little team there.

00:24:17.980 It's not too late to buy a ticket for a hospitality suite.

00:24:21.040 It'll be a fun night.

00:24:22.280 Hope to see you there.

00:24:23.280 I'm going to say goodbye now.

00:24:24.740 And boy, what a newsy morning.

00:24:31.500 Well, of course, Rebel News is based in Canada.

00:24:34.060 And that's where most of our reporters are.

00:24:35.960 That's where most of us were born.

00:24:37.620 And that's the center of gravity for Rebel News.

00:24:40.480 But we care about the wider world.

00:24:42.280 As you know, from time to time, I visit the United Kingdom and even Ireland because those countries are going through things that we are going through here in Canada.

00:24:50.580 And they may be further down the road.

00:24:52.900 But don't forget down under.

00:24:55.600 It's a lot further away.

00:24:56.820 You can't just hop there overnight on a plane like you can to the UK or Ireland.

00:25:00.980 But we have a base of operations in the Australian city of Melbourne, which is the capital city of Victoria, which is one of the major states down there.

00:25:12.440 Avi Yamini.

00:25:13.320 I call him a one-man army.

00:25:15.120 And so he's down there.

00:25:16.580 Of course, he did incredible coverage for us during the COVID lockdowns.

00:25:21.340 Melbourne was really the most locked down city, not only in Australia, but probably the free world, maybe in competition with Canada's Montreal for that.

00:25:33.120 Avi's been covering a lot of things.

00:25:34.880 And recently, Islamification has been an issue in Australia, especially in Melbourne.

00:25:41.480 Really a lot of similarities with Toronto.

00:25:43.880 But they have one improvement that we don't have.

00:25:47.140 They have one thing that I'm sort of jealous of, and namely their Senate is elected in Australia.

00:25:54.540 Not just that.

00:25:55.760 It's a kind of proportional representation.

00:25:58.420 I'll make sure Avi corrects me if I'm wrong on that.

00:26:00.660 That allows parties that are flavorful or more colorful than the median to get actual seats there.

00:26:08.340 And so you have Greens, and you have sort of one-man bands, and you also have a fixture in Australian politics.

00:26:16.520 Maybe you've heard of her.

00:26:17.240 Her name is Pauline Hanson.

00:26:19.960 And she's been the leader of the One Nation Party for decades.

00:26:24.020 And although the mainstream media hates her, well, the parliamentary system allows her to win in her Senate seat. 0.99

00:26:30.420 Joining us now to talk about Pauline Hanson and her latest activities, which have got a lot of attention in Australia and around the world, is our friend Avi Amini.

00:26:38.900 Avi, did I properly introduce everything there?

00:26:41.300 Did I explain how the Senate works okay?

00:26:44.280 I think you've done a pretty good job quickly there.

00:26:47.460 Although I've got to criticize your bringing up my PTSD about COVID so early in the morning.

00:26:55.580 It's early in the morning there.

00:26:57.060 It's at night here in Toronto.

00:26:58.440 Thanks for doing that.

00:26:59.220 Listen, you really fly the flag for Rebel News Down Under all year round.

00:27:04.380 And then once a year, you and I both go to the World Economic Forum.

00:27:07.420 We sort of meet in the middle.

00:27:09.600 And you've interviewed our prime minister more than I have, by the way, because Mark Carney has talked to you, I think, three times.

00:27:16.760 I consider us friends at this point.

00:27:20.040 Well, you've had more interviews with him than any other independent journalist.

00:27:23.120 I want to talk about Pauline Hanson, because she's quite a character.

00:27:26.700 Australia allows people to be characters.

00:27:29.920 There's a kind of acceptance that people can have spicy opinions down there.

00:27:36.040 Your political class isn't boring.

00:27:38.080 Am I right?

00:27:38.460 Well, I think that the way our system's constructed, it allows it to happen.

00:27:43.740 I'm not sure that the establishment supports it or even would allow it.

00:27:48.340 In fact, Pauline Hanson herself was previously jailed during her political career and actually by the conservatives, not even the left.

00:27:59.320 She's been around for decades.

00:28:00.940 I'd say she's one of the most consistent conservative voices.

00:28:03.560 She started off, you know, as this fish and chip owner that resonated only with the fringe. 0.75

00:28:10.100 But, you know, the way she talks resonated with everyday Aussies.

00:28:15.700 She was polling, you know, back then.

00:28:18.000 She's been in this for decades, warning about mass immigration.

00:28:21.680 She's not a polished politician. 1.00

00:28:23.420 She's your average Aussie. 1.00

00:28:25.040 Like I said, she was a fish and chip owner, a fish and chip shop owner, and, you know, she was polling back then at about 3% to 4%, which is still a lot.

00:28:35.700 But today she's polling at about 20%.

00:28:38.820 That means one in, what is that, five Aussies that actually support her message.

00:28:44.320 And I think the reason why so many Aussies are supporting her today is firstly, you know, obviously the cost of living and the way that Australia has gone, the failures of the conservative movement here.

00:28:57.540 She's picked up a lot of their votes and just the Labor Party, the direction that they've taken Australia. 0.98

00:29:03.220 But most importantly, I think because of how consistent she's been the whole time, no matter whether on, you know, no matter how much the left and the establishment media have tried to demonize her over the years.

00:29:17.160 But also the fact that she's, even on her own side, when they've gone, like we've seen in the last couple of years, they've gone kind of kooky on the right.

00:29:29.540 She hasn't.

00:29:30.680 She's maintained her position.

00:29:32.620 She's been, she's had this moral clarity as to what the threat to Australia is.

00:29:38.260 And it's, it's shown it's cutting through and Aussies are supporting her and, and, and agreeing with her. 0.86

00:29:44.940 And what we saw her latest kind of stunt shows it.

00:29:48.600 We'll, we'll get to that video in a second, but I want to expand on your point, how she's been consistent for decades and some of the most successful populist conservatives in the world, you know, for years, they toil away in relative obscurity.

00:30:02.840 And then suddenly the world wakes up and says, holy smokes, that guy was right.

00:30:08.320 I mean, you and I are friends with Tommy Robinson.

00:30:10.220 He's been fighting this battle for more than a decade and it's only been in the last year that people have sort of said, wow, he was right.

00:30:17.940 Keert Wilders in the Netherlands for years, he was considered fringe.

00:30:22.400 He was, he got the most seats, if I'm not mistaken, in the recent vote.

00:30:26.640 Nigel Farage, same sort of thing, battling away on Brexit.

00:30:30.080 He doesn't quite have the courage on immigration yet, but he's finding him.

00:30:33.260 And even the Le Pen family in France, I think that people after 20 years, you know, however much people are opposed to, let's say, Pauline Hanson or Nigel Farage, that number is really not going to change.

00:30:49.600 I mean, you're not going to convince someone today that Nigel Farage is bad or Thomas Robinson is bad because they've been attacked for 20 years.

00:30:56.560 And if they're still standing, you know, I think there's something to showing that you're firm for 20 years.

00:31:02.100 Anyhow, I'm rambling on a little bit.

00:31:03.800 But Pauline Hanson, I remember even in Canada hearing about her 20 years ago.

00:31:08.440 Tell me her latest move, because this goes to the Islamification of the public square, which is a big factor in Australia, just like it is in Canada. 0.62

00:31:16.580 Take it away. Tell me the story of Pauline Hanson.

00:31:19.600 So I think what she did was actually quite clever.

00:31:21.580 And it's not the first time she's done this specific stunt.

00:31:24.980 So let's start with what happened.

00:31:27.140 She tried to move, bring a motion into Parliament, into the Senate to ban face covering, including burqas in public places. 0.97

00:31:37.720 She was immediately shut down by the Labour government with the Greens.

00:31:42.240 So what she did was she walked outside the Senate, the chamber, and she put a burqa on and she walked into the chamber.

00:31:48.920 So this wasn't the first time she's done this specific move.

00:31:51.560 She did it about eight years ago.

00:31:52.960 So this wasn't the first time she was trying to move this motion. 0.71

00:31:55.380 She's been, like I said, the establishment's trying to paint her as this, you know, kooky, crazy fringe woman that just has one trick. 1.00

00:32:05.320 But the truth is, Aussies are seeing it as this is the one consistent politician who has been fighting for the same thing all these years.

00:32:12.920 So she walked out, came in. 0.93

00:32:14.620 You can see here in the footage, she's walking in casually into the Senate and she takes her seat and all hell breaks loose. 0.53

00:32:23.440 You have, you know, the usual suspects condemning her, screaming around.

00:32:29.520 In fact, on the official parliamentary, the Senate YouTube, they have the stream there.

00:32:38.180 They cut the mics.

00:32:39.700 You can't hear it.

00:32:40.380 Rookshan, my friend who works sometimes with us at Rebel, he's there in Parliament.

00:32:46.960 And he's saying when they cut it is when you heard the most outrageous, hateful kind of condemnation from the most extreme people like Lydia Thorpe and Maureen Faruqi.

00:33:03.300 Some of these characters who have done, you know, the craziest stunts within Parliament.

00:33:07.440 But we don't get to see that.

00:33:09.000 He saw it because he's there.

00:33:10.660 He goes, we don't get to see it.

00:33:11.840 They've cut the mics.

00:33:12.620 You see it, but you don't hear anything that's going on.

00:33:15.040 But even what we heard was bad enough.

00:33:17.920 So essentially, she was ordered to leave the Senate chamber.

00:33:21.600 She refused.

00:33:22.960 And her point being that I came in here to debate banning this burqa. 1.00

00:33:29.840 And instead of banning it, you, you, you, so you refuse to discuss banning it.

00:33:36.600 And then I walk in wearing it.

00:33:38.200 And now you want to ban me for wearing it.

00:33:40.880 So which way do you want to have it?

00:33:42.580 Yeah.

00:33:43.800 Very interesting.

00:33:45.040 And very visual.

00:33:46.220 And I think people are getting a little sick of face coverings.

00:33:49.180 I mean, people tolerated the unusual step during COVID.

00:33:52.420 But I think a lot of people are tired because the Hamas types, the Antifa types, they wear masks for duplicitous reasons. 0.97

00:33:59.140 And I cannot believe that any Muslim woman in Australia likes to have their face hidden from the sun. 0.97

00:34:06.780 Well, it's quite funny because one of the loudest voices against her in parliament at the moment is Senator Payman, who is a refugee from Afghanistan, escaped the Taliban.

00:34:20.160 One of the reasons so many refugees got into Australia from Afghanistan was based on women's rights. 1.00

00:34:28.540 And one of the first things that happened when the Taliban fell back then, when they were escaping here to Australia was before one of the was women's rights. 0.66

00:34:40.860 And one of the laws that they had was the forced wearing of these face coverings.

00:34:45.860 And then you fast forward to today and you're seeing payment in parliament condemning Pauline Hanson for making a mockery of wanting to ban the exact clothing that kind of gave her the reason to be here in Australia.

00:35:03.820 The force wearing of this. And you see, you know, if you look at Afghanistan today, as soon as the Taliban came back up, you know, when the Taliban fell, everybody was, you know, the majority of the country was women were pulling off these face coverings.

00:35:18.440 Probably the only ones left wearing it was the ones where their husbands were extremists, forcing them to still wear it.

00:35:24.500 And then as soon as the Taliban took control again, these face coverings became law once again.

00:35:30.920 And here you have in the safety of Australia, where we welcomed her in because of the abuse to women by that same terrorist organization.

00:35:40.040 Now she is in parliament condemning a woman for standing up.

00:35:45.580 You know, one of the reasons which Pauline Hanson says she's standing up against it is obviously the security.

00:35:51.140 We don't want face coverings here in Australia, whether it's the burqa or, you know, balaclavas or, you know, the Hamas people rallying on our streets. 0.99

00:35:58.660 But also because she believes in women's rights and she knows that most of the women wearing this are not doing it because they want to.

00:36:07.560 It's not a personal choice. And she says those that have the personal choice that want to do it, go ahead and do it in your home.

00:36:12.640 If you want to do it on our streets, then go do it in an Islamic country. 1.00

00:36:16.500 But to see payment kind of fighting her on that point is ludicrous. It's crazy. 0.96

00:36:22.280 Yeah. Well, it sounds like the the arrivals in the Senate were able to shut her up, shut her down, shut off the mics, shut down debate. 1.00

00:36:32.760 But tell me how it's been in the wider country.

00:36:36.640 How have the media treated it? How have grassroots?

00:36:40.360 How have Muslim groups? Is she threatened with any human rights lawsuits?

00:36:45.140 What has been the reverberations of what she did?

00:36:48.900 Well, if you're following the mainstream media, you'll believe that she's being widely condemned by the entire country as a racist. 0.69

00:36:55.200 But if you look online, for example, and you just look at any post, even the mainstream media's own reporting on it and look at all the comments, the vast majority is in support of her.

00:37:07.480 And those those same senators that have stood up and condemned the loudest voices against her, their own posts, many of the comments are, again, with Pauline Hanson.

00:37:19.640 So she has wide public support.

00:37:22.700 She was censured by Parliament.

00:37:25.080 In fact, she has received the harshest penalty in the history of our Parliament for doing this stunt. 0.98

00:37:35.820 Remember, what does she do?

00:37:37.640 So the penalty is a seven day.

00:37:39.700 So she's not allowed to represent Australia in any official capacity on any of these trips that they do.

00:37:46.120 But the harshest penalty is a seven sitting, seven days sitting.

00:37:52.360 She is banned from Parliament.

00:37:54.640 Now, the last seven day ban was about 50 years ago.

00:37:59.760 But even that wasn't seven sitting days.

00:38:02.140 It was seven days, which turns out to be about two or three sitting days.

00:38:04.940 So she's not allowed to sit in Parliament that she was elected to represent her constituents for until next year, some point in February.

00:38:14.420 I think it's the first time she's going to be allowed to sit again in Parliament.

00:38:17.680 All because she stood up and she said, you know what?

00:38:23.740 You don't want to ban it.

00:38:24.900 I'm going to wear it.

00:38:26.300 And look, I think it's going to have the opposite effect.

00:38:29.860 I think, you know, she shrugged it off as I'll cop it, whatever.

00:38:33.860 It doesn't bother me that you censure me.

00:38:36.580 That only creates, you know, it has that messiah effect.

00:38:40.620 I think the average Aussie sees what they're trying to do.

00:38:43.260 And it's not going to work.

00:38:45.080 It's only going to work in her favor.

00:38:46.840 Yeah.

00:38:47.140 There's something wrong about other politicians saying you may not have certain views that we disagree with.

00:38:53.340 You may not sit in the party.

00:38:54.700 We can't even debate it.

00:38:55.980 It's not even you can't have the view.

00:38:58.340 We can't debate it.

00:38:59.300 And then if you end up doing the thing you wanted to ban, you see, like if they just debated it and they banned it, it would have been illegal for her to enter the chamber wearing it.

00:39:10.720 And that's why I think it was so masterful and so clever by it and so simple.

00:39:14.580 You know, like, yes, she has done it before because it is so effective.

00:39:18.480 And it got the whole country talking about the issue that they didn't want anyone to talk about.

00:39:24.420 Isn't that amazing?

00:39:25.400 Well, I'll be thanks for the report from down under.

00:39:28.040 And I'm sort of jealous that you have people like Pauline Hanson that are allowed to express themselves.

00:39:33.900 I'm not saying I agree with every single thing the woman says. 0.98

00:39:36.140 I don't know everything she says, but I think you'll agree with more than than you'll disagree.

00:39:41.260 I think she's you know, she's a great friend to Rebel News.

00:39:44.620 She's a great friend to sanity.

00:39:46.240 And I'm just grateful, especially in these times that we have sensible voices still on the right that don't flip flop on issues that are consistent and are willing to take one for the team.

00:39:59.840 Well, you're making me jealous the way you describe her.

00:40:02.180 Thanks very much, Avi, for fighting the good fight down under and for giving us an update.

00:40:07.620 Thanks for having me.

00:40:08.600 All right.

00:40:08.900 There he is, Avi Amini, the Bureau Chief for Australia for Rebel News.

00:40:12.600 On behalf of all of us at Rebel, to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.

00:40:24.100 All right.

00:40:25.120 Thanks, Sid.

Rebel News Podcast - November 28, 2025

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Will an oil pipeline actually be built under Liberal PM Mark Carney？

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