Rebel News Podcast - FAKE NEWS： Is Trump really blocking the sale of face masks to Canada？

00:00:00.000 Hello, my Rebels. Perhaps you saw the terrible news. Donald Trump was banning shipments of

00:00:05.660 critically necessary face masks to Canada. Yeah, I'm not sure if you saw the corrections to that.

00:00:13.480 And I'm not sure if you saw who's really banning face mask exports to Canada. I'll give you one

00:00:19.680 guess. That's today's podcast. Before I get to it, let me invite you to become a subscriber to

00:00:24.840 Rebel News Plus. It's eight bucks a month. You get the video version of this show. Go to

00:00:30.920 rebelnews.com and get your subscription there. I'd appreciate it. It helps keep us alive. Here's

00:00:36.840 today's podcast. Tonight, is Donald Trump really

00:00:54.600 blocking the sale of face masks to Canada. It's April 6th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.

00:01:01.820 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:01:05.580 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:01:09.640 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody

00:01:14.520 right to do so.

00:01:15.500 I have two pieces of news to show you. One is from the United States. As you have surely heard,

00:01:27.060 U.S. President Donald Trump has personally interfered with Canada's supply of face masks.

00:01:32.800 It's outrageous. And isn't it just like Donald Trump? The media party reported it,

00:01:38.660 and you know they are always accurate and fair when it comes to Trump. So within hours of these

00:01:45.580 reports, it was a unanimous chorus of condemnation of Trump and his anti-Canada bigotry. Here's Doug

00:01:53.300 Ford.

00:01:53.880 And I just can't stress how disappointed I am with President Trump for making this decision.

00:01:58.920 I understand. He's thinking I've got to take care of my own people, but we're connected.

00:02:07.800 But even in saying that, I'm not going to rely on President Trump. I'm not going to rely on any

00:02:13.500 prime minister or president or any country ever again. Our manufacturing, we're gearing up,

00:02:19.040 and when those assemblies start, we aren't going to stop them.

00:02:22.620 And here's Jason Kenney.

00:02:24.340 As a Canadian, I am insulted by the decision announced today to block the export of critically

00:02:32.080 needed medical equipment that we need to fight the pandemic here in this country.

00:02:39.580 And I think it's short-sighted because the United States ultimately is a net importer of this kind

00:02:45.620 of equipment. But it also underscores why we must produce our own critical equipment here at home,

00:02:52.960 because apparently we can't even count on our closest friend and ally to be a supplier.

00:02:58.260 As you know from the media, Trump ordered the noble company called 3M to simply stop sending

00:03:04.860 masks to Canada. He ordered them to tear up their contracts with Canadian hospitals.

00:03:11.520 Except that's not quite true. It all started last week when the head of Florida's emergency

00:03:17.380 management office told Tucker Carlson on Fox News that 3M was giving him the runaround

00:03:23.360 and selling their masks for cash to the highest bidder, including to folks shipping them back

00:03:30.320 overseas. Here's a clip of that.

00:03:32.820 3M has lost total control. And so what I asked 3M is that, are they aware that their authorized

00:03:38.560 distributors, U.S. companies, are telling me that the reason why our orders are being pushed

00:03:43.600 down is because foreign countries are showing up with cash to purchase the orders. And when

00:03:50.420 I told 3M that, not only did they not dispute it, I asked them if they've put out any guidance

00:03:54.700 to prevent the behavior, and the answer was no. And so when I asked 3M, you know, what is

00:04:00.520 your production? They said they're making 10 million masks a week. And when I said, great,

00:04:04.340 I have money, I'd like to purchase some of those, they said I couldn't, that they have no mask

00:04:08.820 to sell me. Now we know that's true. For months, China has been buying up North American supplies

00:04:15.640 of masks, including masks imported to America from China, and then sending them back to China,

00:04:22.460 not just to North America. I think I showed you this clip from Australia before too.

00:04:27.540 In an almost military operation, massive numbers of surgical masks, thermometers, antibacterial

00:04:34.860 wipes, hand sanitizers, gloves and Panadol were stripped from the shelves and shipped to China.

00:04:41.180 Now, Canada is not involved with any of this. This is about Donald Trump not wanting masks

00:04:47.400 sent back to China. And in fact, when asked about this, Trump's White House trade advisor,

00:04:53.900 Peter Navarro, made it clear he was not talking about Canada or Mexico. Here, listen to him for

00:05:00.140 yourself. 3M is basically going to be helping the American people fight this battle. There will still

00:05:07.160 be some exports from the United States factories to our friends in Mexico and Canada. But as for the

00:05:16.720 rest of 3M's production around the world, we're going to try to get our fair share. We will get our

00:05:22.840 fair share of that. Oh, well, hang on. Didn't the media report that three million masks at the U.S.-Canada

00:05:30.600 border were sent back to America? Sure, I saw that. So what really is happening? It sure is hard to find

00:05:38.320 out. This story published by Global News that initially blamed Donald Trump has changed three

00:05:43.840 times today alone. Now saying that 3 million masks were blocked at the border, but half a million have

00:05:50.660 been released and the rest are expected to be. What's really going on? I'd like to know whether you have

00:05:57.160 spoken to the Americans in your recent discussions about the fact that pulp and

00:06:04.160 paper used to produce those N95 masks comes mainly from Canada and Naimo, B.C. Have you talked to them

00:06:14.280 about that? Have you reflected on that with them? Yes, we have pointed out to the U.S. all the different materials and

00:06:25.160 services that flow back and forth across the border. We do not want to start limiting our exports or the

00:06:32.160 services that we provide to the United States. Oh, well, it's good to bash Donald Trump. It's good

00:06:39.160 for business. It's good for politics. It's good for the media. Even conservatives like Doug Ford and Jason

00:06:44.160 Kenney know that it will impress the media party. I mean, just the other day, the Toronto Star said

00:06:50.060 they were very, very impressed with Doug Ford. And I guess this just cements this, I guess. Trudeau

00:06:56.300 left the state broadcaster suggest that perhaps Trudeau could fight fire with fire and ban Canadian

00:07:03.480 exports to the United States, including in the Naimo, B.C. There's this forestry processing plant,

00:07:09.960 which apparently makes specialized paper products for masks. That's what the media party said. Alas,

00:07:17.340 that's not true. That's not what is used in at least the N95 face masks. N95 means they take out

00:07:24.660 95% of particles. Those masks use synthetic materials, not paper products. But it still felt good to talk

00:07:33.600 tough about going to trade war with Donald Trump, and everyone was feeling pretty butch. Now, I've seen

00:07:39.760 this happen before. Trudeau and the Canadian media are obsessed with Trump. I guess we all are.

00:07:45.380 But the feeling is not mutual. Donald Trump just doesn't think about Canada, or at least does so

00:07:49.740 very rarely. And that's lucky for us. If he knew the constant slow burn, anti-Trump paranoia and personal

00:07:56.840 smears emanating from Trudeau and his government and his state broadcaster, I think he'd give us a smack.

00:08:02.760 But lucky for us, he's too busy dealing with America and dealing with things like a grown-up around the

00:08:08.100 world seven days a week. He hasn't decided to sleep in every day to self-isolate for a month,

00:08:14.460 even though he neither has the symptoms nor has been found to have the virus. Trudeau just likes

00:08:19.400 staying at home. It stops him from having to work so much, from making decisions, from answering

00:08:24.460 questions. He still has vacation beard. You know, when Trump got his first virus briefing, Trudeau was

00:08:30.440 still on his three-week vacation in Costa Rica with that beard. Psychologically, Trudeau's still on vacation.

00:08:35.400 When Trump said foreign countries, whenever he says foreign, he really means overseas. He really

00:08:43.020 means China. He practically thinks of Canada as part of the United States. We're so integrated.

00:08:49.280 Like when Trump brought in steel tariffs, he meant to take aim at China, but he hit Canada as collateral

00:08:55.580 damage. Although, to be fair, some Canadian companies were being tricky. They were buying cheap

00:08:59.900 Chinese steel and just trans-shipping it to the U.S. Trump just doesn't think about Canada that much.

00:09:07.260 You know, a better Canadian prime minister and foreign minister would be gently working with the

00:09:10.620 U.S. every step of the way here, low-key, to make sure we're in step with them, whether it's border

00:09:16.460 crossings or emergency preparedness. Alas, there are no grown-ups in Trudeau's government who could put

00:09:21.100 aside their Trump hatred. Name one for me if you can. So much ado about nothing. 3M masks will be

00:09:28.620 still coming to Canada, as always. All the huffing and puffing about Trump was just good fun.

00:09:35.100 I know why Trudeau likes it, but if I were Doug Ford, and even more so Jason Kenney, who relies on

00:09:40.320 Donald Trump to build the only pipeline into Alberta, the Keystone XL pipeline, I'd fact-check

00:09:44.960 any accusations against Trump before repeating what Trudeau's CBC state broadcaster alleges.

00:09:50.480 So everything's going great, right? Well, sometimes it pays to read some news media that's not generated

00:09:58.560 by Trudeau's bailout media in Canada. The Wall Street Journal can do some pretty good reporting,

00:10:04.740 so good that it recently had journalists kicked out of China by the government. So that's a very

00:10:09.860 good sign, isn't it? Now look at this story. This is a story about a Canadian company headquartered in

00:10:16.080 Trudeau's alleged hometown of Montreal. The company's called Medicom Group. They have three factories

00:10:22.460 in China, including one in Wuhan, making face masks. That's amazing. I mean, wouldn't it be great

00:10:27.500 to buy Canadian masks for Canadians? I guess they're made in China. Yeah, about that, take a look at the

00:10:33.440 story. Mask maker Medicom Group, based in Montreal, operates three factories in China, including one in

00:10:42.060 Wuhan, where the epidemic emerged. Its supply of materials in China has been diverted by government

00:10:48.020 officials to produce masks for use there, said Kathy Lee, a senior sourcing manager for Medicom.

00:10:54.740 Oh, just taken. Stolen, maybe diverted. That's the word used here. Commandeered. And it's a way,

00:11:03.800 in a way, that's understandable. That's what countries sometimes do in a crisis, a panic,

00:11:08.900 in an emergency. They put their own country first. Now, Trump was kind enough to include Canada and

00:11:14.120 Mexico in his list of best friends, all in it together in this crisis, but not China. No way, 0.99

00:11:21.300 they don't care. They'll literally take Canadian contracts for Canadian masks and just take it. 0.60

00:11:29.480 Funny, though, not a peep from Trudeau or the media party about that outrage that really is

00:11:36.460 going on. Not the 3M fake news story. Not a peep from Trudeau. Not from the CBC. Not even from Doug

00:11:45.740 Ford or Jason Kenney. That's odd, because unlike the 3M story, this one isn't fake.

00:11:54.680 So why isn't it being reported anywhere here in Canada? Stay with us for more.

00:11:59.860 Well, those are some images, particularly from the United Kingdom.

00:12:29.840 Where their police forces are actually deploying drones to hector people, spy on people, record people,

00:12:38.000 and shame people, even for going for solitary walks in the countryside. All the while,

00:12:44.780 the tube in London remains packed. Certainly not within social distancing guidelines.

00:12:51.180 We are in a unique crisis, not seen in centuries since the plague quarantined great institutions

00:13:02.040 across Europe. What is the best way for a government to respond? How much power should we give them?

00:13:10.640 And how much infringements on our civil liberties should we tolerate? So far, I must tell you, Canadians 1.00

00:13:17.100 and Americans, too, have seemed a little bit too eager to give up their freedoms on the say-so of some

00:13:24.840 well-meaning, but ultimately only partially informed public health authorities. Well, joining us now to

00:13:32.400 help make sense of it, especially in the context of Canada's emergency laws, I'm delighted to be joined

00:13:39.120 by Sam Goldstein. We spoke with him a few weeks ago about his election as a bencher of the Law Society

00:13:45.480 of Upper Canada. Today, he is here as a concerned civil libertarian and lawyer. Sam, great to see you again.

00:13:51.980 It's good to see you, too.

00:13:52.900 I understand that we have to bring some order to the world if we're going to stop this pandemic, but I don't want to

00:14:03.280 become like China, where they treat people like ants, and human life is worth very little, ironically, in this 0.99

00:14:12.480 pandemic pushback. Why don't you take us through the Canadian legal situation? I'll do my best not to interrupt.

00:14:21.780 I have so many thoughts on this myself, but you're the expert. Why don't you take us through the

00:14:26.520 different levels of law here of what politicians and public health officers can order us to do as

00:14:34.100 citizens?

00:14:35.880 So, I mean, just to put it a little bit in perspective, I think the concept of giving powers over to a central

00:14:43.440 authority are as old as going back to ancient Rome when they were able to, they had powers to elect what

00:14:50.420 they call the tyrant to take over Rome and to deal with some sort of crisis. And the most famous tyrant of all is

00:14:57.720 actually is Quintus Cincinnatus, who was elected in about 458 BC to help Rome deal with the barbarians, defeated the

00:15:05.760 barbarians, gave up his dictatorship and went back to work in his farm. So that concept of centralizing power in times of

00:15:15.940 emergency is a very old concept. In Canada, we have three levels of government. And so therefore, we have three

00:15:22.940 different laws. So federal, we have the Emergency Measures Act. Provincially, we have the Emergency

00:15:29.280 Management and Civil Property Act. And then there is also a city ordinance passed underneath the provincial

00:15:37.960 law, which allows them to do that. So all three levels have their own three pieces of legislation, which

00:15:44.680 allows them to take control in times of crises. Now, you know, we are really blessed, Ezra, despite the fact I

00:15:53.060 have some concerns about civil liberties in Canada, we're really blessed with a system of government that

00:15:58.840 disallows anyone who can assume powers of a tyrant like Cincinnatus, and doesn't simply rely upon

00:16:05.840 Cincinnati's goodwill to give up those powers. We have things like our natural divisions of powers and

00:16:12.560 federalism and so on and built in safeguards within these emergency acts, which limit the ability of

00:16:19.760 centralized power to continue using it and to overuse it. So federally, I think the biggest thing I'd like to

00:16:27.780 get across to people is, you know, people are confused between who has more power, the federal government or

00:16:34.920 the provincial government. And as a matter of fact, while people are always asking for Trudeau to enact

00:16:40.920 what's now called the Emergencies Measures Act, and I'll talk about its background in a moment, it's in

00:16:46.920 fact the provincial government that has the real powers and more powers than the federal government.

00:16:51.880 So the federal government has what I call the Emergencies Measures Act, and it replaced what used to be

00:16:57.960 known as the War Measures Act, and it was replaced in 1988. And there's only three times, Ezra,

00:17:04.440 that the War Measures Act was actually used in Canadian history. It was in World War I, World War II,

00:17:10.760 and the October crisis of 1971, dealing with the FLQ. So the War Measures Act, what's important,

00:17:18.440 and I'm going to sort of focus a little bit about the limitations on, as well as the powers that it has,

00:17:24.680 right? So inside the War Measures Act, it makes it clear that this is a temporary, it's for, you know,

00:17:33.320 special temporary measures, and it's to ensure the safety during national emergencies. And those words

00:17:40.840 are really important because what it does, as I'm already saying, is it builds in limitations

00:17:47.160 as to what the government can do. So the federal government could pass the EMA and impose, for example,

00:17:53.240 a curfew on the country. Sorry, it can't pose a curfew on the country, right? It can only enact it,

00:18:00.680 as I said, for certain limited reasons. So it even enumerates what those emergencies are. So the

00:18:08.440 emergence could be public welfare, like a national catastrophe, like the Winnipeg Red River flood that

00:18:15.720 happened, or lack magnetique in the train explosion. Those can be natural catastrophes.

00:18:22.520 It could be for public order. So a public order would be, in case you remember in the 50s, we had

00:18:29.080 Amir Gezenko, who was the Russian spy, who defected to Canada. So if there was a fear of some sort of,

00:18:36.200 even like a coup of something like that, they can enact it for public order purposes, election tampering

00:18:43.800 possibility, terrorism. And then inside each of those categories of when they can enact the legislation,

00:18:55.480 it specifies what it can do, the federal government, what it can do to address those situations.

00:19:02.760 So, for example, let's go back to the issue of what we're happening now, which is a public welfare,

00:19:09.960 a natural catastrophe. It's dealing obviously with a disease, and that's specified underneath

00:19:16.760 public welfare in case of disease. It has the limited powers to restrict travel. We're doing that.

00:19:24.680 It can provide services and compensate people if it expropriates your property. It provides

00:19:32.040 emergency payments to people, which is what the government is doing now. It could establish

00:19:36.280 hospitals and shelter, distribute essential goods, restore structures. And it also has a fine,

00:19:44.280 a summary conviction of $500 or less for six months or six months jail. Or if I'm on indictment,

00:19:51.560 it's a $5,000 fine and not less than five years jail if you don't comply with the government.

00:19:58.200 So, as you can sort of see, and the other important aspect of the Emergency Measures Act is that

00:20:05.400 for a public welfare declaration of emergency, the parliament has to meet again in 30 days, which

00:20:12.760 is in fact it's doing, and it then has to renew it. So you could see that. And then also, if 10 senators

00:20:23.560 or 20 or more MPs decide that they want to revoke the declaration of emergency, they could actually

00:20:31.880 sign like a petition, bring it to the governor general and say, we want you to recall parliament,

00:20:38.520 and it gets debated as to whether they should continue or not. So there's a lot of built-in

00:20:44.040 limitations in terms of the federal legislation to limit the government from expanding its power.

00:20:52.120 Well, that's good. So any 10 senators or any 20 MPs, they could be opposition MPs, they could say,

00:21:00.360 this is out of control. Governor general, please call parliament back. Let's see if they really

00:21:05.800 have the will of the people. Yes. Now, one other interesting aspect about the Emergency Measures Act

00:21:12.360 and the built-in powers that limit it is right in the preamble of the act itself, it says that the

00:21:20.680 Emergency Measures Act should be governed in accordance with the Charter of Rights, the Bill

00:21:26.360 of Rights. And listen to this, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which is

00:21:31.240 a UN document. And why that's so interesting is because Diefenbaker, one of my favorite Canadian

00:21:41.160 prime ministers who came up with the Bill of Rights, was concerned about the internment of the

00:21:46.680 the Japanese in World War II, which was underneath the War Measures Act. And inside the Bill of Rights,

00:21:53.640 it talks about a protection against, get this, exile. And the reason why Diefenbaker put that in is

00:22:02.680 because during World War II, not only were we interning the Japanese, but we're actually sending

00:22:08.200 them back to Japan. So Diefenbaker was very conscious of that. And that's what he put in,

00:22:14.040 you can't exile people. That's an important right because you heard Trudeau talking underneath the

00:22:20.760 Aeronautics Act, which is another piece of federal legislation, of not allowing Canadians back into

00:22:26.600 Canada. And that, you could possibly challenge that underneath the Bill of Rights. Now, we don't

00:22:34.680 have to go there, but I'm just sort of, there's a lot of different interplay between the different

00:22:38.520 acts. And as again, we still have the Bill of Rights, and it has some rights that the Charter

00:22:43.880 doesn't, which inflicts sometimes with these other pieces of legislation in Canada. But again,

00:22:49.880 the other thing about the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is why they alluded to

00:22:54.760 that, or why they built that into the preamble of the Emergency Measures Act is because the ICCPR

00:23:01.640 talks about compensation. And the Charter doesn't, and the Bill of Rights does. And as you could,

00:23:08.280 as you've heard me say, one of the aspects of the Emergency Measures Act is it says that if the

00:23:13.080 federal government expropriates your lands for a purpose to address the national crisis,

00:23:19.000 then you have the right to compensation. So very interesting little limitations

00:23:24.600 and balances of power that we have in the EMA.

00:23:29.480 That's very interesting. And I'm pleased to know that there is that safety valve

00:23:33.160 that opposition parliamentarians can use if necessary. It's also good to know,

00:23:39.720 by the way, can you tell me, is there an expiry date? Is there a time limit? Did you say every 30

00:23:44.680 days? Is that what you said?

00:23:46.760 Yeah. So it depends upon what the emergency is for public, sorry, for what we're doing,

00:23:53.000 public welfare, it's 30 days. For other ones, declarations, it's 60 days. And I believe in time

00:23:59.160 of war, it's 120 days.

00:24:00.600 Got it. All right.

00:24:01.560 It's good to know that there's some built-in checks and balances there. Now that's the feds,

00:24:08.040 but so much of the heavy lifting here is being obviously done by the provinces, including the

00:24:13.000 premiers. I think that some of that is because they are often men of action. And Justin Trudeau

00:24:19.720 seems to be fairly hands-off. I've never heard of a national leader self-quarantining for a month,

00:24:26.200 even though he had no symptoms and didn't take the virus test. It's so odd to me, but put that

00:24:31.880 politics aside, you've got Francois Legault, Doug Ford, Jason Kenney, John Horgan, really leading

00:24:39.480 the on-the-ground efforts. That's where the hospital's jurisdiction is, provincial schools

00:24:45.560 jurisdiction. Tell me a little bit about what powers the provinces have in these emergencies.

00:24:53.640 So really, because of our division of powers in Section 91 and 92, what I like to continue

00:24:58.840 calling the British North American Act of 1867, you know, civil and property rights is with the

00:25:05.640 province. And that's really in a situation such as this, that's where the real powers are required.

00:25:12.760 So we have, I can't remember what I referred to it earlier, but it's called the Emergency

00:25:17.240 Management Civil Protection Act. Every province has a version of this. In Ontario, it used to be

00:25:24.360 called the Emergency Plans Act, but after the ice storm of 1998 and actually the Y2K crisis and 9-11,

00:25:35.080 it was overhauled in 2002 and it became the Emergency Management Act. And then this is really

00:25:42.360 important. And then in 2006, after SARS, it became what it is now, but it was only in 2006, listen to

00:25:49.880 this, it was only in 2006 that the definition of emergency included disease or health risk.

00:25:58.600 So for what, but for 2006 amendment, we would not be able to use the provincial powers. So what it does

00:26:06.680 is it allows us, and now you'll, you'll clearly be able to see some of the powers because you'll see

00:26:13.400 what Doug Ford's been saying. So the provincial legislation prohibits movement within any specified

00:26:19.720 area. It evacuates people and animals and property. It could establish shelters and hospitals. It could

00:26:28.200 close public places or businesses. It can distribute aid and goods and services. It could fix prices.

00:26:36.200 And it has a fine of not more than $100,000 or imprisonment for a year, if you're doing for an

00:26:43.800 individual or a director of a corporation, it's $500,000 penalty or one year, or a corporation is

00:26:50.680 $10 million. So you could see that. And there's a, now the thing about the provincial legislation is

00:26:57.560 interesting is there's also a basket clause, which says that it could take any such action

00:27:03.880 as it considers necessary. Let me say that again. It could take any such action as it considers,

00:27:11.960 as the province considers necessary. So that's, that's a tremendous, big, huge basket clause,

00:27:18.280 which you could, you could already see allows our premier to have very, you know, I don't want to

00:27:24.760 say unlimited powers, but let's say a broad range of powers within the sphere of federalism that he,

00:27:32.360 that he has. So it too, and it too has built in limitations. As you, as you may have heard, the

00:27:41.400 province has to come back to the legislature to extend the powers every, every 28 days. Now,

00:27:51.080 he has the power, the premier has the power for 14 days, and then the lieutenant governor could extend

00:27:58.040 that power for another 14 days, if the lieutenant governor is convinced that the same emergency is

00:28:05.000 still in effect. And then after, after a second two week period, he has to come back to the legislature.

00:28:11.080 So I think they're coming back next week to decide whether they should extend the emergency powers

00:28:17.320 underneath the provincial legislation. Now, I want to get back to one thing about,

00:28:23.480 about Trudeau enacting the federal legislation. And what's also interesting, another limitation

00:28:29.000 is that there's another act, another piece of federal legislation, which is the emergency

00:28:35.080 management act, not measures, but management. And the emergency management act allows the government

00:28:42.040 to start immediately turning on the federal spigots and having all this money flow to the provinces

00:28:49.000 to enable the provinces to do and carry out the programs that you've just heard me enumerate.

00:28:54.760 Why that's important is because you could only enact a federal piece of legislation,

00:29:00.760 the emergency act, if the provinces, plural, or province is unable to deal with the situation.

00:29:09.000 So one of the problems the federal government has in enacting the federal legislation is it has to

00:29:16.520 show that it's that the province is unable to deal with the situation. And that would mean that you could

00:29:22.040 say, well, Mr. Prime Minister, what measures did you take underneath the Emergency Measures Act? How

00:29:27.720 much money did you give them? Right? So the provinces, if they wanted to push back on any

00:29:33.480 federal incursion on their territory, if any individual wanted to challenge the federal government,

00:29:38.200 they could say, well, before you can act the Emergency Measures Act, the AMA, you have to tell me what

00:29:43.400 you did underneath the Management Act. So I thought that's just kind of another interesting limitation

00:29:49.080 on the power and how different pieces of legislation could interact with each other.

00:29:53.320 Well, let me ask you a question. This is very illuminating to me that all these powers are

00:29:58.440 there. And you're right, there's these basket clauses, these grab alls that really look quite

00:30:03.560 unlimited. One of the few limitations, as you say, they have to be interpreted with the charter in mind,

00:30:10.200 well, good luck getting into court on a speedy basis for this. But at least they have 14 or 30 day

00:30:18.600 check back periods with the parliaments. But let me ask you in a real life way. So let's say,

00:30:25.480 in a flourish of bureaucratic and political overreach, that some politician somewhere says,

00:30:35.080 you can't leave your house. And I tell you, it feels like we're inches away from that right now.

00:30:40.120 Well, good luck telling 37 million Canadians they can't leave their house. 0.60

00:30:46.520 Um, who would enforce these laws? Can, would it be the RCMP? Would it be the provincial police in

00:30:53.640 places like Ontario and Quebec? Would it be local city cops? Can any police officer enforce any or all

00:31:00.040 of these laws?

00:31:02.600 Uh, yes. Um, again, I just want to give one more limitation in the provincial legislation,

00:31:07.560 just like the federal legislation. They could all, the province could only enact the emergencies

00:31:12.600 act. Again, if it, uh, if there's a serious risk, um, that if they delayed, um, enacting legislation,

00:31:21.080 it could possibly cause, um, uh, um, problems in society. So again, that's not a limitation,

00:31:28.440 but to address your specific issue, um, a lot of the, a lot of the ability to protect civil rights

00:31:35.720 in situations like this are post hoc. So they're always sort of after the fact that may be unfortunate,

00:31:41.800 but you could also sort of understand in an emergency type of situation, you're sort of giving

00:31:47.320 the benefit to the state with the limitations that it may have in terms of extending the power.

00:31:53.640 Frankly, you know, I think as a civil libertarian, my concern is not so much with, um, when these

00:32:00.360 things are being enacted. I think the real concern for civil libertarians and people like yourself,

00:32:05.160 Ezra, and your viewers is when, and what we're seeing now is when, uh, health officials get on

00:32:12.280 television and they start saying, well, we recommend that you put on masks, or we recommend, uh, that you

00:32:19.080 do this or that, or stay six feet away from people. The problem with that is that's not a law,

00:32:25.640 right? That's where the confusion is. And I think if there's any criticism of our politicians,

00:32:30.120 and I actually think they've been doing a good job more or less, uh, both federally,

00:32:33.960 provincially and, and municipally. But the one criticism I have is people are not clear as to

00:32:40.040 what's a recommendation and what a law is. And why that's problematic is number one, we don't want,

00:32:45.960 our health officials are not elected people. They don't have the authority to start telling us what

00:32:51.240 to do. And I think that causes problems. And the second thing is you want to know what a law is and

00:32:56.520 what is just simply a recommendation because, and this is a very real thing that happened on my street

00:33:01.320 is that there's a, uh, a neighborhood family that owns a restaurant and that restaurant is that

00:33:06.840 family's entire soul livelihood. And they want to know when they have to close it down. So obviously,

00:33:13.640 Doug Ford came out and said, we want businesses, restaurants are not essential services. They

00:33:18.280 have to close down and they closed down. But up until that point, they were not sure what to do.

00:33:24.520 Um, of course they want to be sensitive to the, to the health crisis, but on the other hand,

00:33:28.520 they have a livelihood that they have to make for themselves. So those confusions, I think,

00:33:33.880 are what the problem is. The other aspect is with the police in policing these issues. Um,

00:33:39.880 so, um, just the other day, very much like those pictures you showed earlier on is my niece was

00:33:46.600 stopped by a York regional police officer on the street and she was asked what she was doing. Now,

00:33:51.640 all she was, is she was out walking her dog. She stopped for a moment to check her phone and,

00:33:56.360 you know, send a text message. Uh, and the police officer started asking her questions. Now,

00:34:02.360 I don't know if the police officer understood that as of yet, it's not, and she was alone. So as of yet,

00:34:08.600 the province just simply said, uh, police officers can stop you and they could ask your name,

00:34:15.320 address and date of birth. Okay. But they have to see you. Uh, there has to be a rational connection

00:34:20.600 to why they're stopping you. And that authority would be not breaching the five or less, uh,

00:34:26.680 five or more people. Right. So she was by herself. So the police officer had no, no authority to say

00:34:33.160 anything to her really. I mean, obviously police officers could come up to anyone and start talking to

00:34:36.760 them. But if the officer would have asked her, you know, identify yourself, I want everyone to

00:34:41.960 know that you, all you have to do is give them your, if you see, and you suspect that they're, that

00:34:47.080 they're, um, stop, they're questioning you in relation to one of these emergency laws, then, you know,

00:34:52.760 you have to give them your name, date of birth and address, but you don't have to, you do not have to

00:34:57.480 provide documentation. You have to satisfy the officer that, um, you're identifying yourself,

00:35:03.480 but you have to provide your birth certificate or your driver's license to the officer.

00:35:07.880 And interesting today, interesting, just today, I was out at Hyde Park and I was walking my dog and

00:35:13.240 a bylaw officer came up to me and, uh, he was asking me why I was, why I was walking my dog, um,

00:35:20.440 in the, uh, off leash on the on leash area. And I just kept walking because I know that the bylaw

00:35:27.640 officer was not investigating me for anything underneath the provincial legislation. And so

00:35:33.080 I don't have to stop. I just kept, I said to him, thank you very much. I didn't bring it today. I'll

00:35:36.920 bring it tomorrow. And I kept on walking. Right. So unfortunately, not everyone has the wherewithal to

00:35:41.960 understand, you know, what, what pieces of legislation gives officers, uh, you know, what rights and what

00:35:49.160 powers, but that officer didn't have the authority to stop me or ask me to identify myself. Yeah.

00:35:55.240 Part of me feels sympathetic towards police officers who are, you know, it's their job to

00:36:02.920 carry out the policies of politicians and, and laws. And they surely are unfamiliar with these laws,

00:36:12.120 even though I guess it's their job to bone up on them. Part of me wants to be grateful to anyone

00:36:17.880 in uniform these days, who's doing the hard work out there. But I think that there is a certain kind

00:36:25.480 of police officer and I hope it's not too numerous who would rejoice in this new power. You referred to

00:36:34.840 the Roman emperor as a tyrant, his official title. You can be a tyrant for two years. I, I would hope

00:36:41.320 that police, uh, don't out of ignorance of the law or enjoyment of their superpowers go around

00:36:49.400 and basically bully people. Uh, and, and hopefully people like that are not part of our police force,

00:36:56.040 but it irritates me that we're going towards that stereotypical scene in those World War II movies

00:37:02.840 where the German police officer encounters some French resistance person on the street and says,

00:37:08.440 what's your papers? I am Papyrin. You know, um, that's, that's not who we are. And that's

00:37:13.960 actually not doing a bloody thing to stop the virus.

00:37:18.920 Yeah, I think, um, I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said that, uh, those who trade their, 0.98

00:37:25.240 their liberties for security, uh, ends up being fools. And, and I'm very, um, I always remind myself 0.68

00:37:32.360 of that phrase. I think it's up to Canadians and I, to, you know, to guard our civil liberties. I

00:37:39.080 mean, I think the police are doing a good job more or less, as I said, the police are the, our

00:37:43.720 politicians are doing a good job more or less, but that's not to say that, um, we shouldn't be

00:37:48.280 vigilant. You know, we always should be vigilant. We should know our rights. We should, um, you know,

00:37:53.320 in a, in a polite way, uh, we should exercise our rights. Um, I thank the officers, this,

00:37:59.800 the bylaw officers this morning, uh, as I just kept walking by them. Uh, but you know,

00:38:05.960 I think I was polite, wasn't rude to them. And I think we have to do the same thing.

00:38:09.320 There's nothing wrong with saying, well, officer, why are you detaining me? And if they give a reason,

00:38:13.400 then you, you know, you cooperate, but there's nothing wrong with asking why an officer is stopping

00:38:19.560 you and, and asking for an explanation, certainly nothing wrong with that. And, and not only you're

00:38:23.880 protecting yourself, but you're also protecting your rights for everybody. Yeah.

00:38:27.480 One thing you should also know is you're, as I said, a lot of these, sorry, I was about to say

00:38:31.560 something. No, you, you continue your thought, then I'm going to ask you about jail. So go ahead.

00:38:37.960 Okay. So, I mean, what, one of the things, again, in terms of the limitations is, is provincially,

00:38:44.360 the, um, the premier has 120 days after the revocation emergency act to provide a report

00:38:54.200 to the legislature. And, uh, so, you know, and in that a hundred day, after a hundred days in that

00:38:59.160 report, that'll show, you know, the reasons why he did what he, um, you know, the decisions he made

00:39:04.760 and why he made them. I think it was really amazing and fantastic for Doug Ford and a little bit of, um,

00:39:11.160 a mistake for Trudeau, um, to not give over the information with respect to the modeling, because

00:39:17.560 ultimately that information, the modeling would become very important in any charter challenge

00:39:24.920 or any, uh, any challenge to the law. So I think Doug Ford, not only in the legal, um,

00:39:30.520 purpose of providing the, I mean, you know, providing the justification, but I think,

00:39:35.240 you know, by providing that information, you're really.

00:39:39.720 Well, we had a bit of an internet hiccup there, which is how things sometimes go these days,

00:39:44.040 but we're going to pick it right back up. We've got Sam back on the line, civil liberties lawyer,

00:39:48.920 uh, in Toronto, criminal lawyer, also elected as a bencher in the Ontario Law Society. Sam,

00:39:55.720 you've given me some encouragement to tell me that there are some built-in checks and balances

00:40:00.440 with all of these laws. Uh, there are rules for the governor general or lieutenant governor to

00:40:06.760 step in for opposition MPs, at least federally, to force a return to parliament. There are reporting

00:40:13.560 rules that have to come afterwards. That's all encouraging, including the remonstration that

00:40:19.080 these emergency powers must still respect the charter. Um, and you've also remind me that,

00:40:25.000 listen, the cops are the good guys, uh, but we can still resist their overweening authority,

00:40:31.880 like when they tried to stop you walking your dog or tell your niece she can't be out alone.

00:40:38.440 Let me ask you a sort of a quirky question. If they're letting convicted prisoners out of prison,

00:40:47.560 including violent offenders, like they're emptying the prisoners, the prisons in the name of coronavirus,

00:40:54.600 what would they do with someone that they arrest? So they're letting violent criminals out of jail,

00:41:01.080 but you're walking your dog when you're not supposed to, what would they actually do with you?

00:41:06.360 Yeah. Um, good question, Ezra. Um, the reality is, is that, um, there's an enforcement problem in,

00:41:14.680 in, in this situation. Uh, it is unlikely they're going to take you to jail, uh, let more likely what they

00:41:21.240 do is just give you a little ticket saying, you know, show up in three months and we'll deal with your

00:41:26.840 court system. So we're really relying upon the goodwill of the Canadian public right now. I can't,

00:41:33.240 as you pointed out, keep, you know, they're only really detaining people with major crimes.

00:41:39.000 Even in Toronto, as I'm a, you know, I do some civil liberties, I'm primarily a criminal lawyer.

00:41:44.600 Um, those people who are being held for bail hearings are, are really the, the more, the,

00:41:50.200 the serious crimes, the ones where you're found with the drugs, you're found with the gun.

00:41:55.240 Those are the types of crimes that they're doing bail hearings for. But the vast majority of

00:41:59.560 situations now, if you get arrested, they'll give you what's called a promise to a peace officer

00:42:05.320 and a form 11, uh, an undertaking to a police officer, which says, you know, don't, you know,

00:42:10.760 stay away from that person or stay away from that store. Um, and they'll just release you.

00:42:16.280 So it's really the only serious crimes. This is not a serious crime. If you're caught

00:42:22.200 with five people or more likely, as I said, you'll just get a ticket and the ticket will

00:42:26.120 say, come back sometime. Now the courts are not expected to open up until June.

00:42:30.920 Um, so sometime in June, you'd have your court appearance.

00:42:34.040 Well, hopefully things will be back on track then. Um, my own homemade math until we get the formal

00:42:41.960 stats. Uh, I was just calculating the number of people who've applied for employment insurance

00:42:47.720 divided into the labor force. When I checked a few days ago, we were at 16% national unemployment.

00:42:54.760 I think the stats have actually gone up by another percent since then. The worst it ever got under the

00:43:01.560 Great Depression was 19%. I think this could theoretically be worse. And here's my last question

00:43:09.320 to you, Sam. Right now we're all sort of stunned by this at once. For some people, it's sort of stay

00:43:15.880 at home, watch Netflix, have some fun because the reality hasn't sunk in yet. But some people can work

00:43:23.240 from home, but for millions of people, this is going to go from a novelty to a personal disaster very

00:43:31.640 quickly. And you just said, we're all relying on goodwill and good behavior. I'm worried that if we

00:43:40.360 have 20, 25% unemployment for weeks or months, that you will see a breakdown in civil society. You will

00:43:51.720 see lawlessness. You'll see vigilantes. You'll see people scoffing at the law and saying, why are you

00:43:58.440 coming at me for walking my dog when my neighbor was robbed yesterday? And I'm more, I'm more worried

00:44:05.560 about the economy than I'm worried about the virus at this point. And I hate to say, but a month from

00:44:11.800 now, I think I'm going to be more worried about the anarchy than about the economy.

00:44:20.200 Well, certainly, Ezra, I share your point of view with respect to being worried about the economy.

00:44:27.240 While I might be a lawyer, the courts are shut down. And in effect, I'm being put out of work.

00:44:33.800 So I, you know, I, as again, I share that concern with the economy. I don't necessarily share your

00:44:39.720 same concern for anarchy in the streets, given high levels of unemployment. The reason why I don't is,

00:44:46.280 is, you know, Ezra, you're sounding kind of like Karl Marx there. He predicted, you know,

00:44:51.400 he predicted there'd be anarchy in the streets and types of situations like this. But historically,

00:44:56.280 you know, even when we went through the Great Depression, there might have been the Winnipeg

00:45:00.200 general strike, but by and large, Canadian society still remains stable. So I think,

00:45:06.680 you know, I still think that as long as our fundamental, we believe in a fundamental principles

00:45:12.120 of liberalism, and we buy into that, those principles, I think we'll be okay as a society.

00:45:19.240 I don't share the view that just because you're going to have mass unemployment that you're going

00:45:23.720 to necessarily have anarchy in the streets. I think, again, as long as people understand

00:45:28.920 why the civil liberties are being taken away from them, if there's a buy-in, and as I think,

00:45:33.800 again, I'm going to, you know, congratulate Doug Ford in releasing

00:45:36.840 those information and statistics on his modeling. People can see why our politicians are making the

00:45:44.200 decisions that they're making. I think generally people will understand that, look, I know that

00:45:48.440 there's a high unemployment, but we have to do this because of the health risks at stake. And that's

00:45:54.600 why I think it's a real mistake for Trudeau to hide that information.

00:45:59.320 I accept your criticism that saying poverty or unemployment equals crime is a Marxist concept.

00:46:06.520 I accept that. I guess what I'm worried about is when people have been ordered not to work,

00:46:13.480 when companies have been ordered out of business by political action. Like the Great Depression was

00:46:18.760 a result of big strategic policy errors, but no one ordered companies to close. This feels a little

00:46:26.840 bit more like when Trudeau cancels pipelines in Alberta or when the government ordered the cod

00:46:32.840 fishery to close, even though that was a result of a biological, you know, there just weren't any

00:46:37.480 fish. I guess, I mean, I don't want to be a pessimist. I just am worried if you have police who can't put

00:46:44.440 people in jail, if a greater proportion of police themselves call in sick, if police are now harassing

00:46:52.680 your niece or you for walking the dog or going for a walk and Joe lunch bucket cannot work even though

00:47:01.400 he wants to work and his boss wants to work. That's what I'm worried about is you see the disconnect

00:47:07.000 between the people who are paying the price and this elite class of bureaucrat politician who can't

00:47:14.360 even make up their minds as to whether or not masks work or not. I guess, I don't know. I mean,

00:47:18.840 I'm lucky to still have a job, Sam, but I'm worried about other people saying not only do I not have a job, 0.98

00:47:24.360 but that idiot on TV told me I can't have a job and it's because of him that I can't have a job. I'm 0.95

00:47:30.920 worried about the source of this unemployment being a political decision. Anyway, maybe I haven't thought

00:47:36.440 this through well yet, but I'm nervous about how things will be in a month. Last word to you, Sam.

00:47:41.560 Sam? Well, listen, has anyone ever accused of being a Marxist before, Ezra? Yeah, no, never.

00:47:51.960 No, look, I look, I'm one of the I'm Joe Bucket right now, Ezra, I'm unemployed. And, you know,

00:47:57.480 with some embarrassment, I have to tell you that I had to apply today for the $2,000 a month,

00:48:03.800 because I'm not working. But I think, you know, I'm buying into for now I'm buying into the fact that

00:48:10.520 I'm being deprived of livelihood. And, you know, keep in mind that I have business expenses as well

00:48:16.920 as home expenses. And and the $2,000 isn't necessarily going to cover everything. And

00:48:21.160 it's certainly not going to go towards putting money away from my retirement. I'm just sort of

00:48:25.880 barely to get by on it. But I'm willing for now at least to put up here to accept that I have to do

00:48:31.880 this for the good of everybody. And if it takes, you know, you know, we'll just see. I mean, I can't,

00:48:38.440 you know, if at 18 months, you know, I think the federal government will be called on and

00:48:42.760 the provincial government will be called on for more to do more. And we'll, you know,

00:48:48.840 we'll take every day at a time and see how it goes. But for now, as someone who's Joe Bucket,

00:48:53.640 who's out of a work because Trudeau or Premier Ford is telling me that I can't work, I'm accepting

00:48:58.760 it for now because I understand the crisis that we're in. I have my suspicions and my skepticism

00:49:05.240 about things. And I certainly question what the politicians tell me. And I question what

00:49:10.440 the health authorities do. But I'm for now, the evidence is there for me to justify in my own mind,

00:49:19.160 giving up my livelihood for now. We'll see in a couple of days, we'll see what happens in 18 months.

00:49:24.920 But, you know, if it's going to go to 18 months, I could only assume that the numbers are going to be

00:49:29.000 really bad. But for now, Ezra, I think I'm willing to give up my livelihood for the good of everybody.

00:49:36.680 Well, I hope you're right, Sam. And I think you've got a great attitude. And God willing,

00:49:41.320 we'll all be through this soon. And things will get on the mend, not only in terms of health,

00:49:46.840 but also in terms of the economic health and personal liberty of our country. Thanks so much

00:49:53.000 for sharing your wisdom. I learned a lot from you, not just about our laws today,

00:49:57.000 but about the election or selection of a tyrant, as he was called, in the Roman Empire. I'm going

00:50:03.640 to study a little bit more about that. Take care, my friend. Stay safe.

00:50:07.320 You too. You too. Bye-bye. Thank you.

00:50:09.720 There's our friend Sam Goldstein. We first spoke to him a few weeks ago about his principle-based,

00:50:17.080 conscience-based campaign for the lost side of Ontario. And he joins us today to talk about

00:50:22.200 these emergency powers. Stay with us. More ahead.

00:50:27.000 Hey, welcome back on my monologue Friday about effective drugs to treat the coronavirus that

00:50:37.880 Trump promoted. Chris writes,

00:50:40.360 seems like this virus will burn through the population long before a vaccine will be presented.

00:50:44.680 The government continues to expose the Canadian population to this epidemic with overseas flights

00:50:49.720 coming in one after the other. Yeah, I thought that maybe the flights were done,

00:50:53.080 but I went online to yvr.ca, that's the Vancouver airport's website, and to torontopearson.com,

00:51:00.920 that's Toronto's airport. Both have flights from China landing today.

00:51:07.800 Kurt writes, if only the mainstream media would report on issues like Rebel News does.

00:51:12.200 You guys keep impressing me daily, keep it up, and hope you and all your viewers are safe.

00:51:16.520 Well, thanks very much. We'll do our best. On my interview with Mark Morano, Zuzanna writes,

00:51:21.400 I sure hope Mark Morano is right and Trump will soon realize that this whole COVID-19 situation is

00:51:26.680 a subversion of our basic rights and freedoms. I don't even know if Justin Trudeau is in control

00:51:34.120 or in command. He's certainly not fully engaged. He's lazing around in his PJs at home all day.

00:51:40.520 He's letting other cabinet ministers make the decisions or other public health officers. But

00:51:46.840 a public health officer is not an elected accountable politician. It's an advisor,

00:51:51.640 fine, but a decider has to make the decisions. And I am terrified that we're just sort of floating

00:51:58.520 along, doing everything weeks or months late, taking leadership direction from the World Health

00:52:04.440 Organization, which really means from China. I think we're having the worst of all worlds. 1.00

00:52:08.840 Well, folks, that's our show for today. On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:52:14.280 to you at home, good night, stay healthy, and keep fighting for freedom.

Rebel News Podcast - April 07, 2020

FAKE NEWS： Is Trump really blocking the sale of face masks to Canada？

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