Have you ever read a Canadian treaty？ It might surprise you. Let’s do it together.
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Summary
Have you ever read a canadian treaty with Indigenous bands? it might surprise you. Have you ever heard of the Treaty of 1876 between Queen Victoria and the Plains and Wood creenations and other tribes of Indians?
Transcript
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tonight have you ever read a canadian treaty with indian bands it might surprise you let's
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do it together it's february 6th and this is the ezra levant show shame on you you censorious bug
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well everyone talks about indian treaties maybe not everybody but it's certainly in the news a lot
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recently it's been in the news in british columbia because treaties or sometimes the lack of treaties
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has given way to an idea that there is indigenous title that is that the land under our feet the land
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perhaps under your house or your business belongs to aboriginal people however that is determined
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and this is terrifying hundreds of people in british columbia whose land under their houses
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is now in question and of course that's a precedent that could spread throughout british columbia and
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elsewhere too the idea of indigenous title is something that radical lawyers and judges have
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been working on for a generation and now it's coming to fruit i've also heard indian treaties talked about
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for other things like in alberta do those indian treaties make it impossible for alberta to separate
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from canada you have other indian treaty claims for example that treaties allow indigenous people to
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get lower sentences for crimes those are actually framed as uh you know respecting the cultural
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hardship of indigenous people but these treaties are certainly thrown around a lot and i don't think
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most people have read them i mean it's an obscure document it would sort of be like reading your own
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mortgage because in a way it's a kind of mortgage at least it touches on the land it's a binding
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contract what i want to do for the next 20 minutes or so is read a treaty i'm not going to read every
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word because some of it's repetitive and some of it's way too detailed and you sort of get the point
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but i want to read to you a treaty from my home province originally alberta called treaty six you can see
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a map of different treaties and you can see the british columbia was not covered by treaties which is a
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source of some of the problem but alberta is completely covered by various treaties and i just chose
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treaty six at random and i want to take you through it it's a fascinating document it's a
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kind of contract and why don't i just jump into it remember this is in the late 19th century
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the queen at the time is queen victoria canada is being populated very quickly the cp rail is being
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built the uh settlers are coming in the government wants to settle the west before america gobbles up
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uh more land you know they would love to have british columbia join so the there's a real need to
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firm things up on the ground who owns the land while the queen needs to because she's going to bring in
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a deliberate policy of immigration particularly of farmers for example to make something out of the
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land so let me just jump in without further ado to tweet treaty number six between her majesty the queen
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and the plain and wood creenations and other tribes of indians at fort carlton fort pit and battle river
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with adhesions adhesions is an interesting word these are people who after the treaty was signed said
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hey can we sign that too so they adhesed they adhered their name to it um it's difficult i would
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imagine to sign a treaty with the indian tribes as they were called them because there wasn't a central
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indian government i'm using the word indian because that's the word in the treaty and that's the word
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in the law the indian act um and frankly most indians i know call themselves indians um they were not
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organized they did not have newspapers they in in fact didn't have written language at all so to do a
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contract to do a treaty with an entire nation of indians was very difficult but they had they just
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basically went around talking to elders and talking to chiefs and bosses and trying to cobble together
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enough signatures that they could say yeah we have extinguished any interest that everyone else had
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because they all signed this without further ado let me read articles of a treaty made and concluded
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near carlton on the 23rd day of august and on the 28th day of said month respectively and near fort
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pit on the ninth day of september in the year of our lord 1876 between her most gracious majesty the
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queen of great britain and ireland remember this was before ireland broke away so even the name of
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the empire is different by her commissioners the honorable alexander morris lieutenant governor of the
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province of manitoba and the northwest territories remember this is before alberta and saskatchewan
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and the honorable james mckay and the honorable william joseph christie of the one part and the
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plain and wood cree and other tribes of indians inhabitants of the country within the limits here
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and after defined and described by their chiefs chosen and named as here and after mentioned of the
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other part whereas the indians inhabiting the said country have pursuant to an appointment made by
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said commissioners being convened at meetings at fort carlton fort pit and battle river
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to deliberate upon certain matters of interest to her most gracious majesty of the one part and the
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said indians on the other so basically they're saying all right we got these indian chiefs and
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other leaders together in these different towns and forts on different days and it was for the purpose
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of doing a deal and whereas the said indians have been notified and informed by her majesty said
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commissioners that it is the desire of her majesty to open up for settlement immigration and such other
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purposes as to her majesty may seem meet attractive country bounded and described as here and after
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mentioned and to obtain the consent thereto of her indian subjects inhabiting the said tract and to make
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a treaty and arrange with them so that there may be peace and goodwill between them and her majesty
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and that they may know and be assured of what allowance they are to court upon account upon
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and receive from her majesty's bounty and benevolence so this is the queen's agents the commissioners the
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the governors this is their job is to do a deal with the indians that the indians understand it
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that there's peace and goodwill but they express some of the goals immigration settlement and whatever
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other purposes are necessary and whereas the indians of the said tract duly convened in council as
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aforesaid and being requested by her majesty said commissioners to name certain chiefs and head men
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who should be authorized on their behalf to conduct such negotiations and sign any treaty to be founded
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thereon and to become responsible to her majesty for their faithful performance by their respective
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bands of such obligations as shall be assumed by them the said indians have thereupon named for that
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purpose that is to say representing the indians who make the treaty at carlton the several chiefs and
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counselors who have subscribed here too and representing the indians who make the treaty at fort pitt the
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several chiefs and counselors who have subscribed here too so they're saying look they don't really
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have a political system that we know of so we are deputizing these guys as chiefs and these guys as head
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men and it's their job to negotiate and sign a deal and then to make sure their followers follow it
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and thereupon an open council the different bands having presented their chiefs to the said
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commissioners as the chiefs and head men for the purpose aforesaid of the respective bands of indians
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inhabiting the said district here and after described and whereas the said commissioners then and there
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received and acknowledged the person so presented as chiefs and head men for the purposes aforesaid
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i know this is a lot of detail i just want to show you the thinking because it's sort of the the
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this tells a story doesn't it this treaty tells a story of well why are we doing this well the queen
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wants to settle the land and get immigrants and farmers in there okay what about the other side
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well they were assembled and they chose their chiefs and head men and and their job was to make sure
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their followers follow and the respective bands of indians inhabiting the said here and after described
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and whereas said commissioners have proceeded to negotiate a treaty with the said indians and the
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same has been finally agreed upon and concluded as follows that is to say okay so that's a very long
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preamble and here is the treaty as concluded i hope you're still with me the plain and wood creed tribes
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of indians and all other the indians happening the district here and after described and defined do
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hereby and here's the key word this is the most important sentence this is actually why i'm doing this
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monologue i want you to read this sentence and think about it these indians do hereby seed release
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surrender and yield up to the government of the dominion of canada for her majesty and the queen
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and her successors forever all their rights titles and privileges whatsoever to the lands included
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within the following limits that is to say and i'll describe the land in a second but i just read to
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you really the most important sentence in this whole treaty that these indians on their own part and on
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behalf of all their fellow indians seed surrender this is a treaty of surrender i'm i know that's hard to
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to take if you are an activist who believes in you know progressive liberal views no it was a treaty of
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surrender and the indian chiefs and headmen gave up all privileges whatsoever to the lands and then
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they described the lands and i'm not going to read the whole thing because it's quite a intricate
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description commencing at the mouth of the river emptying into the northwest angle of cumberland lake
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thence westerly up the said river to its source then on a straight line in a westerly direction to the
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head of green lake thence northerly to the elbow in beaver river thence down the said river northerly
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to a point like you see what i mean it just goes through the details the tract comprised within the
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lines above described embracing an area of a hundred and twenty one thousand square miles be the same more
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or less to have and to hold the same to her majesty the queen and her successors forever that includes
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now and her majesty the queen hereby agrees and undertakes to lay aside reserves for farming lands
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due respect being had to lands at present cultivated by the said indians and other reserves for the
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benefit of said indians to be administered and dealt with by them for her by her majesty's government
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of the dominion of canada provided all such reserves shall not exceed in all one square mile for each
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family of five or in that proportion for larger or smaller families in manner of following that is to
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say that the chief superintendent of indian affairs shall depute and send a suitable person to determine
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and set apart the reserves for each band after consulting with the indians thereof as to the local
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which may be found to be the most suitable for them so they give up all the land all the rights they
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seat and surrender it to the queen but the queen says okay for each family of five you get a square
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mile we're reserving that out now it's called an indian reserve and um it's going to be measured and
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handled and dealt with by the commissioners but you've surrendered everything but the queen is going
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to give you some land to farm i'll keep reading provided however that her majesty reserves the
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right to deal with any settlers within the bounds of any lands reserved for any band as she shall deem fit
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and also that the aforesaid reserves of land or any interest therein may be sold or otherwise
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disposed of by her majesty's government for the use and benefit of the said indians entitled thereto
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with their consent first had and obtained so there is some ability to sell it but you've got to
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give some consent first to the indians and with a view to show the satisfaction of her majesty with
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the behavior and good conduct of her indians she hereby through her commissioners makes them a present
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of twelve dollars for each man woman and child belonging to the bands here represented
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in extinguishment of all claims heretofore preferred so the queen is saying look i appreciate you doing
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this i'm going to give you some money as a kind of gratuitous gift because all your claims are
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extinguished and further her majesty agrees to maintain schools for instruction in such reserves
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hereby made as to the as to her government of the dominion of canada may deem advisable whenever the
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indians of the reserve shall desire it so the queen is promising look i'm going to educate your kids
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that's where these residential schools came in and they have been besmirched because of course there
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were some some bad behavior in residential schools as frankly there are in residential schools for
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in cities or for rich kids or poor kids too there is some bad behavior but many of the indian families
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wanted their kids to get a modern education and that's what these schools did her majesty further
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agrees with her said indians so within the boundary of indian reserves until otherwise determined by her
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government of the dominion of canada no intoxicating liquor shall be allowed to be introduced or sold
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and all our laws now in force are here and after to be enacted to preserve her indian subjects inhabiting
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the reserves or living elsewhere within her northwest territories from the evil influence of the use of
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intoxicating liquors shall be strictly enforced that's sort of incredible that the queen is saying i'm banning
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alcohol from the whole place but it was the case look you know um the europeans brought alcohol to the
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americas the americas brought tobacco to the europeans i'd like to joke that must mean a hell of a party
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neither side was really quite used to the other but it is a fact that alcohol has been a great detriment
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to first nations people by the way when i grew up i don't know if it's still the same i know the blood
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reserve southwest of calgary was a dry reserve um so i don't know if that's the case all across treaty
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six but i know when i was growing up and i actually went on the blood reserve it was an alcohol free
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zone her majesty further agrees with her said indians that they the said indians shall have a right to
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preserve pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as herein
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before described subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by her government of her
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dominion of canada and saving and accepting such tracts as may from time to time be required or taken up
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for settlement mining lumbering or other purposes by her said government of the dominion of canada or by
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any of the subjects thereof duly authorized therefore for the said government so indians were allowed to
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keep their traditional hunting and fishing although white folks had and the government had the right
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to use those lands for other purposes too there have been some problems because of course the avocation of
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hunting and fishing was a subsistence economy does that apply to industrial scale fishing let's say on
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rivers which something was clearly not contemplated back then i'll keep reading is it did you find this
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interesting i find this fascinating um and there's even language there her indians i mean the queen
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obviously loved her people but was doing a deal with them having them having surrendered she's saying
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okay you're going to get some land you're going to get schooling you're going to have fishing and
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hunting and you're going to have the right to do your farming um this is a deal and i suppose the
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alternative to this deal is how it would be in another jurisdiction where the domestic population was just
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killed that's how the world's empires were the british empire was the gentlest and most
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progressive empire in the world you know how i know that they banned slavery the spanish empire didn't
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the portuguese empire didn't french empire didn't dutch empire didn't there was a lot of empires
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around the world even italy had the empire in northern africa it was only the english that banned
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slavery this was the gentlest empire in the world by the way
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it is further agreed between her majesty and her said indians that such sections of the reserves
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above indicated as may at any time be required for public works or buildings of whatever of what
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nature soever may be appropriated for the purpose by her majesty's government and the dominion of
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canada due compensation being made for the value of any improvements thereon
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and further that her majesty's commissioner shall as soon as possible after the execution of this treaty
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caused to be taken an accurate census of all the indians inhabiting the tract above described
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distributing them in families and shall in every year ensuing the date hereof at some period in each
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year to be duly notified to the indians and at a place or places to be appointed for that purpose
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within the territory seated pay to each indian person the sum of five dollars per head yearly
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now five dollars back then it's not a ton of money now a couple hundred bucks per indian of course
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in reality indian affairs pays tens of thousands of dollars per indian
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it is further agreed between her majesty and the said indians that the sum of fifteen hundred dollars
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per annum shall be yearly and every year expended by her majesty in the purchase of ammunition
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and twine for nets for the use of the said indians in manner following that is to say in the reasonable
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discretion as regards the distribution thereof among the indians inhabiting the silver reserves
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or otherwise including herein so the government's going to buy them tools like ammo for hunting
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it's further agreed between her majesty and the said indians that the following articles shall be
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supplied to any band of the said indians who are now cultivating the soil or who shall hereafter
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commence to cultivate the land that is to say four hoes for every family actually cultivating also
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two spades per family as a force said one plow for every three families as a force said one harrow for
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every three families as a force said two sides and one what stone and two hay forks and two reaping
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hooks for every family as a force said and also two axes and also one cross cut saw one hand saw one
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pit saw the necessary files one grindstone and one auger for each band and also for each chief for the use
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of his band one chest of ordinary carpenters tools also for each band enough wheat barley potatoes and oats
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to plant the land actually broken up for such cultivation by such band isn't that interesting the
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detail i mean so the queen was taken over the indians surrendered everything all their land and all
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their rights but the queen said listen don't worry here's what i'm going to give you now was it too
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much is it too little i don't know it's more than any other country gave the indigenous folks where they
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conquered and the undersigned chiefs on their own behalf and on behalf of other indians inhabiting the
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tract within seated do hereby solemnly promise and engage to strictly observe this treaty and also
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to conduct and behave themselves as good and loyal subjects of her majesty the queen they promise and
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engage that they will in all respects obey and abide by the law they will maintain peace and good order
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between each other and also between themselves and other tribes of indians and between themselves and
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others of her majesty's subjects whether indians or whites now inhabiting or hereafter to inhabit any part
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of the said seated tracts and that they will not molest the person or property of any inhabitant
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of such seated tracts or the property of her majesty the queen or interfere with or trouble any person
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passing or traveling through the said tracts or any part thereof and that they will aid and assist the
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officers of her majesty in bringing to justice and punishment any indian indian offending against
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the stipulations of this treaty or infringing the laws in force in the country so seated
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that's a hell of a contract that's a treaty and now you know and then they sign it in witness hereof her
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majesty said commissioners and the said indian chiefs have hereunto subscribed and set their hands at or
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near fort carleton on the days in year of four said and your fort pit fort pit on the days above four said
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recorded 24th february 1877 and you can see uh the different names and then here's what i mean by an
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adhesion so they had this big signing but later other indians that they came upon said hey we want to sign
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that too so they call that an adhesion by creed indians we the undersigned chiefs and headmen of the creed
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and other bands of indians having had communication of the treaty a copy of which is printed in the report
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of the minister on the interior for the year ending 30th of june 1876 concluded etc etc etc so they want
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to join in so they say yeah we heard about the treaty we know who signed it but not having been
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present when the negotiations were being conducted at the above mentioned places do hereby for ourselves
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and the bands which we represent agree to all the terms conditions covenants and engagements
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of whatever kind enumerated in the said treaty and accept the same as if we had been present
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and had consented and agreed to the same treaty was first signed and executed so there's several
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adhesions on and on that is treaty six very interesting historical document very interesting
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cultural document very interesting analysis of how the different parties viewed each other
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some people would say that there was a great dis imbalance of power some people might even question
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if that legalese was well understood to the indians i would imagine that the negotiations was more in
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plain language and that the legalese was just just like when you have an agreement with a friend or
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any other agreement lawyers gussy it up because they need a certain precision that the legal language
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affords them but that's treaty six and so i ask you what i started off this monologue by saying
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when you have a surrender document the word is in there where you give up all claims to the land
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whatsoever how can you possibly make some of the claims that indigenous politicians and more usually
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their white uh activist friends do based on the treaties that's a treaty of surrender my friend
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stay with us next up my friend alexa lavoire back from cuba to talk to us about it
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welcome back you know rebel news has been around for about 10 and a half years now um actually
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almost 11 years i want to tell you the most scary moment of those 10 and a half years it was not when
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i was arrested briefly in toronto and was taken to jail i actually wasn't scared at all i knew it was a
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false arrest i knew i would be released quickly and i knew i would sue the toronto police which i
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have done uh it's not when i bumped into larry fink the ceo of black rock and he tried to intimidate me
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by taking my picture i knew that was just his attempt to do something anything to scare me off
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now i'll tell you the scariest moment in the nearly 11 years of running this place
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was when alexa lavoire and efron monsanto flew to cuba to do their undercover reporting
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because of course they were using their real passports and we weren't going to try and
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give them forged documents with not that cloak and dagger and we had sort of talked about how
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they would answer the question what are you doing down here well we're here on a vacation and they
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were posing as a couple going to havana they were we booked them into a havana hotel and i watched as
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their flight it was a snowstorm in toronto so i watched i tracked their flight there's all sorts of
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different websites where you can see the plane's progress as it goes and the flight was a little
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bit late so it landed in havana i saw it online landing in havana just after 7 p.m i thought okay
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i know that when you land in calgary or vancouver or toronto on a foreign flight you have to line up
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at customs and i thought okay it's probably going to take a couple hours i thought so i'm not going
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to worry okay so seven o'clock turned into eight o'clock turned into nine o'clock i thought okay i should
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be hearing from them fairly soon like just a message that they're okay then 10 o'clock then 11 o'clock
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now it's four hours and midnight so they have been on the ground for five hours and i haven't heard a
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word and i thought to myself even in the most uh red tape uh kafka-esque bureaucracy it wouldn't take
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five hours to get through customs and then i got terrified i thought how would i know if they were
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arrested what if they were arrested and taken to jail i just simply don't know and i don't know how
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to contact them because they took what we call burner phones down there they didn't take their
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phones you know modern smartphones of all your email and all your content contacts and you know
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you don't go to certain places with your real phone you don't go to china with your real phone you
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go to russia with your real phone because they'll scan it and snoop on it so we sent alexa and afron
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down there with burner phones and five hours in i started to well i don't know about i don't think
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panic is the word but i got truly scared i thought what if they've been arrested and so i broke protocol
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and i phoned the hotel where they were staying and i just said have they arrived and she said in her
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broken english oh yeah they've arrived and i thought oh my goodness and then it wasn't too much longer
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when afron sent me just a a friendly email saying yeah they landed and i was relieved because it was
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that first moment at customs that i thought would be the stickiest moment anyways i have to tell you
00:26:53.940
i was genuinely scared and i thought to myself what have i done because the bravery required to go
00:27:00.280
into an authoritarian regime where merely criticizing the regime gets you if you're a citizen five or ten
00:27:07.620
years in prison now i knew that if alexa and afron were arrested they would not be sentenced to five
00:27:13.540
or ten years in prison they would probably be held in prison a few days and then deported but even that
00:27:18.760
might be very unpleasant in a place like cuba their jails are not like our jails luckily it was just a
00:27:26.440
combination of moving through customs very slowly and the fact that they have very poor internet and
00:27:33.620
phone service there and that our team had uh dumbed down burner phones anyways i just wanted to tell you
00:27:40.760
in the ten and a half years here that was the scariest moment i had and joining me now is one of our
00:27:46.880
two intrepid reporters who went undercover at risk of jail alexa lavoire alexa great to see you and i just
00:27:53.980
wanted to tell that story you really had me worried when you landed and i didn't hear from you for five
00:27:59.840
hours i really thought that there was a chance you were arrested thank god that didn't happen
00:28:04.580
actually i didn't have any uh access to my email i didn't have access to anything so i all my um faith
00:28:15.340
was on efron to actually send an email to say that we are alive well i'm so glad tell me what it was
00:28:23.800
like so you went down there you used your real name and it would be foolish to try and hide who
00:28:28.760
you were if someone were to type in your name in google it would pop up that you were with rebel
00:28:33.440
news so we didn't try and hide that or lie lying could probably get you into bigger trouble so what
00:28:40.220
was it like you landed at the airport in haven i've never been to cuba i take it it's a smallish
00:28:46.380
airport it's not going to be a busy hub like toronto what was it like you you went on i think
00:28:51.640
west jet if i recall um was the plane full who met you at the airport were there police or was it just
00:28:58.540
a board someone who just rubber stamped your passport what was it like and did they ask you
00:29:04.080
questions about who you were or did they just assume you were tourists and wave you in
00:29:08.040
um it was really a small airport and when we arrived it was only one plane who actually landed
00:29:14.800
um and the first room that you enter you need to go and scan your visa um and then you return to the
00:29:24.820
line for going to the custom but i think is it took so much time i don't know what was happening and
00:29:33.360
what was the whole process but for every single person it was taking so much time to verify the
00:29:40.860
probably the passport or anything but they didn't actually ask us any questions so we gave the
00:29:47.740
passport they took our picture then they gave back our passport and then go
00:29:54.520
well thank god i mean i have to tell you i was on the edge of my seat so i take it then you went in
00:30:01.680
a bus with the rest of the people into the city and obviously we chose to send you to havana the big
00:30:09.080
city the capital city as opposed to a beach resort a beach resort you would be hidden from the local
00:30:14.100
population the staff at the hotel would be very careful they wouldn't say anything in fact they
00:30:18.940
probably would be friendlier to the regime because they have a a job that gets them better food tips
00:30:25.340
in u.s money like working at a resort in cuba is considered a a great job isn't it because you have
00:30:31.760
access to westerners some of whom uh bring gifts like whether it's you know toiletries or or clothing
00:30:40.280
a lot of people when they go to cuba actually bring things to leave because they know the people there
00:30:45.240
are so poor right yes so the best job that you can have is either working for the regime or working
00:30:51.920
in hotel uh first of all because you sleep there you eat there and you have a salary um as an example
00:31:01.860
someone say that doctors and teachers have a lower salary than the people who work in the hotel
00:31:10.240
and so they have to beg in the streets as a second job because uh they can't afford to feed their family
00:31:18.600
you understand here in cuba you work and salaries are very low I work as a teacher in school
00:31:27.480
of children my salary per month is 2.800 pesos per month which is $7 per month
00:31:39.540
it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing I live with my family I have two girls one of five and one of three
00:31:50.420
my girls have two years drinking water with sugar
00:31:56.420
I've been able to teach your friends to the country what happened
00:32:04.420
it's so heartbreaking that was the number one thing I watched your video obviously I watched the
00:32:21.300
uh the video being edited so I've seen it several times and the number one thing that hits me besides
00:32:26.060
the fact that Havana is turning into an open-air garbage dump because they've stopped running the
00:32:31.700
garbage trucks because they're running out of fuel like that's it's just so shocking but the that's
00:32:38.260
the first thing these mountainous piles of garbage everywhere which is got to be unhygienic I'm sure it
00:32:43.480
doesn't smell good there's got to be rats in there like it's a terrible thing but the second thing is the
00:32:48.640
abject poverty I have traveled in various places in the world and it reminded me of the poverty I saw in
00:32:56.180
Port-au-Prince Haiti people living in what looked like bombed out buildings the the the apartments
00:33:02.300
these people were living in it looked like it had been attacked in a war but it's it's just 70 years
00:33:09.100
of neglect under the communists like they the excruciating poverty I didn't know Cubans were so
00:33:15.960
poor maybe you know and it reminds me of what happened in Venezuela which used to be one of the richest
00:33:20.360
countries in the world until communism and socialism undermined it too were you shocked by how poor and
00:33:27.900
how hungry everyone was yeah I've been to Cuba many years ago I think it was 10 or 12 years ago and at
00:33:36.020
that time I knew Cuba was a poor country but now what I saw was something else I've been traveling in many
00:33:45.580
many countries in my life and I think Cuba it's one of them where I can say that I think it's one of
00:33:52.860
the poorest place that I did visit in my life I've been to India I've been to Africa but I can tell you
00:33:59.940
that over there it's just despair it's just there is nothing left like building are collapsing garbages
00:34:07.380
are just pilling up there is no food you go to the drugstore there is literally no medicine
00:34:14.800
it's empty shelves there is line up for going to buy bread and there is only a certain amount of
00:34:21.780
breads available per day because they run out of flour or other ingredients
00:34:27.960
this is the box that we have a book that we have a book of reasoning that goes monthly and what
00:34:36.600
comes now only this is the measure of six pounds five pounds of water and a half pounds of water for the whole month for a whole family
00:34:46.920
so it's really sad to see it's uh it's sad also to hear like some parents saying that
00:35:04.540
they give sugar water to their kids because they cannot afford to give them anything else
00:35:10.660
it's so heartbreaking now you two stood out just by how you look how you dress uh I mean you clearly
00:35:19.060
were tourists what was the reaction when people saw you did you were in Havana so you weren't at a resort
00:35:25.480
you were right in the heart of the city you were staying in a hotel that it I online it looked nice
00:35:31.480
enough it was surely nicer than the accommodations of 99% of Cubans you want went out into the street
00:35:38.980
did people come up to you did they want to tell you things did they want to sell you things what was
00:35:44.440
it like interacting with Cuban people before you got into your conversations with them
00:35:49.060
but first of all uh the main street uh the street of the capital um it's really touristy
00:35:56.140
uh a lot of people are like harassing you to sell you all kind of like stuff or a trip with uh those
00:36:04.200
vintage cars um but when you go a little bit outside and when you just you know you you look at the
00:36:12.300
garbage or you look at some graffiti people are just coming up to you and say you see how life is and
00:36:21.980
and then you start talking like just like casually talking about all kind of stuff about life about
00:36:30.920
how it is now in Cuba and people wants to speak they are just afraid that they are being caught by
00:36:39.580
some secret police but they open up like pretty uh fast uh to to tell like their story and the thing
00:36:49.160
that they were asking is like please tell the world what we are living under because we can't we
00:36:56.900
can't continue like that estamos encantados de conocernos Ibrahim Ibrahim y Alexa en este momento
00:37:05.080
porque ya que somos cubanos que son canadiense y ellos quieren saber la realidad cubana la realidad cubana
00:37:12.000
les voy a explicar en este momento que todo está sintiendo un servicio de cambio de asociación social
00:37:16.900
de cuba muchas personas dicen no la cubina cubina la cubina fue para todo el mundo pero normalmente
00:37:22.500
después que mueren los documentales de fidel las cosas en cuba wow that's it's heartbreaking some of
00:37:28.620
the poverty was just in in the the video that we published that you filmed was just incredible
00:37:33.920
um did you encounter any supporters for the regime who didn't also work for the regime so for example
00:37:44.980
if someone was in a hotel they would probably say something nice about the regime because they have
00:37:50.220
the best job they could a policeman would probably say something nice about the regime but once you
00:37:55.160
spoke to an ordinary person living in poverty did any of them still say you know socialismo o muerte
00:38:03.480
or something like were they still mouthing the slogans of the socialist regime or was everyone
00:38:10.580
just burnt out by it long ago stopped supporting it like i were there any people who still thought
00:38:19.820
communism worked i don't think people think that communism works uh but i think it is they have
00:38:27.440
been indoctrinated since young age to believe that communism revolution and fidel castro was actually
00:38:34.420
the best thing for cubans so there is still some people believing that fidel was a great man um but with the
00:38:42.240
social media um this opened a new door of information for them and it's how uh they started questioning
00:38:49.540
questioning everything questioning the life they are living under and you can see now that people are
00:38:58.140
not dumb they they see what is happening and especially when fidel castro passed and raul his brother
00:39:06.980
took the the place and now um everybody say that okay the president is uh diaz canel but no it's actually
00:39:16.840
raul that is behind and is ruling the country still but people are saying now that the country is falling
00:39:25.460
apart faster than ever and and but they are they still believe some of them that fidel was a great man
00:39:36.640
some of them say that they never actually asked for the revolution but one thing they all liked
00:39:44.660
um jake vera really wow isn't that interesting i suppose it's like um in china mao has become has
00:39:54.340
turned into a bit of a legend um more than a reality isn't that interesting now you mentioned social media
00:40:00.400
i i imagine the internet is highly censored there what kind of information did people know did they know
00:40:09.680
about the the arrest of uh nicholas maduro the dictator of venezuelan did they know about trump sort of
00:40:18.480
operating in venezuela what what did they know about and what did it come from independent sources or did
00:40:26.420
it come from communist sources there is both so you can see uh in the tv because we me and efron we were
00:40:35.520
watching the tv and um there is actually ads of um it's ads for bringing back maduro and that uh the
00:40:45.200
u.s operation was actually um anti-democratic and uh and that uh all the fault is on donald trump
00:41:25.120
But on the other hand, they heard that there were no Cubans in Venezuela when this happened.
00:41:50.120
And so they started questioning, but you just say that there were no Cubans in Venezuela.
00:41:55.120
But now you're saying that there were 32 Cubans who died.
00:42:01.120
So they were able then to start questioning, so you're lying to us.
00:42:10.120
And then they started looking at social media and looking at certain probably news that they have access.
00:42:19.120
But again, it's really, really dangerous for them to go and check on social media or on internet.
00:42:31.120
And if they find out that they have social media on their phone or they have been watching other news on their phone, they can be jailed.
00:42:58.120
Wow. Now, what reaction have you had? The video has not yet been out for a full 24 hours. Have you had a reaction from Cuban exiles in Miami? I know you went down to Miami a few weeks ago when Maduro was toppled. Have you made any connections with other Cuban freedom fighters? What's happened in the last day?
00:43:22.540
Yeah, we have a former candidate for the Conservative Party of Quebec that is Cuban himself. He actually moved in Quebec 25 years ago. And he was actually so happy to see that report. He was actually glad and he said that he's going to share it with all the expats.
00:43:43.780
But as well on X, there is a lot of Cuban who actually share my reports. I have some of them who actually wrote to me privately.
00:43:56.320
And I have also some people reached out to me by email saying that they actually live in Cuba part time and they want to share some other part of Cuba and how it's even worse when you go out of Havana.
00:44:13.620
Wow. Well, listen, I'm so proud of you and Efron. And I recognize that we put you and you chose to go into harm's way, which is a very courageous thing to do. You knew that you were at risk. And that's why I was so nervous when I didn't hear from you for five hours. I thought, oh, my God, that risk has come true.
00:44:33.020
But I'm glad you went and you didn't go. It was not a vacation at all. You just walked the streets all day talking to real people. And the results show it. For folks who haven't seen the video, I played some of it yesterday, but you can see the whole thing at thetruthaboutcuba.com.
00:44:51.880
Well, congratulations, Alexa, to you and Efron. And thanks very much for doing this.
00:44:56.180
Thank you. And thank you for giving Cuban a voice because I received the assignment, but the first person who decided it was you.
00:45:08.320
Well, I knew you would do a great job there in Efron, too. Thank you, my friend, for that.
00:45:14.840
There she is, Alexa Lavoie, one of the two-person duo who went to Havana. Stay with us. Your letters to me next.