Rebel News Podcast - Have you ever read a Canadian treaty？ It might surprise you. Let’s do it together.

00:00:00.000 tonight have you ever read a canadian treaty with indian bands it might surprise you let's 0.97

00:00:06.080 do it together it's february 6th and this is the ezra levant show shame on you you censorious bug

00:00:15.520 well everyone talks about indian treaties maybe not everybody but it's certainly in the news a lot

00:00:29.820 recently it's been in the news in british columbia because treaties or sometimes the lack of treaties

00:00:35.480 has given way to an idea that there is indigenous title that is that the land under our feet the land

00:00:42.600 perhaps under your house or your business belongs to aboriginal people however that is determined

00:00:49.400 and this is terrifying hundreds of people in british columbia whose land under their houses

00:00:55.160 is now in question and of course that's a precedent that could spread throughout british columbia and

00:01:00.620 elsewhere too the idea of indigenous title is something that radical lawyers and judges have

00:01:07.220 been working on for a generation and now it's coming to fruit i've also heard indian treaties talked about

00:01:12.980 for other things like in alberta do those indian treaties make it impossible for alberta to separate

00:01:18.860 from canada you have other indian treaty claims for example that treaties allow indigenous people to

00:01:25.780 get lower sentences for crimes those are actually framed as uh you know respecting the cultural

00:01:32.780 hardship of indigenous people but these treaties are certainly thrown around a lot and i don't think

00:01:39.280 most people have read them i mean it's an obscure document it would sort of be like reading your own

00:01:44.720 mortgage because in a way it's a kind of mortgage at least it touches on the land it's a binding

00:01:51.060 contract what i want to do for the next 20 minutes or so is read a treaty i'm not going to read every

00:01:58.240 word because some of it's repetitive and some of it's way too detailed and you sort of get the point

00:02:02.440 but i want to read to you a treaty from my home province originally alberta called treaty six you can see

00:02:09.620 a map of different treaties and you can see the british columbia was not covered by treaties which is a

00:02:14.120 source of some of the problem but alberta is completely covered by various treaties and i just chose

00:02:19.580 treaty six at random and i want to take you through it it's a fascinating document it's a

00:02:24.720 kind of contract and why don't i just jump into it remember this is in the late 19th century

00:02:30.880 the queen at the time is queen victoria canada is being populated very quickly the cp rail is being

00:02:39.420 built the uh settlers are coming in the government wants to settle the west before america gobbles up 0.90

00:02:46.240 uh more land you know they would love to have british columbia join so the there's a real need to

00:02:53.600 firm things up on the ground who owns the land while the queen needs to because she's going to bring in 1.00

00:02:59.480 a deliberate policy of immigration particularly of farmers for example to make something out of the

00:03:04.880 land so let me just jump in without further ado to tweet treaty number six between her majesty the queen

00:03:11.980 and the plain and wood creenations and other tribes of indians at fort carlton fort pit and battle river

00:03:19.380 with adhesions adhesions is an interesting word these are people who after the treaty was signed said

00:03:26.800 hey can we sign that too so they adhesed they adhered their name to it um it's difficult i would

00:03:34.120 imagine to sign a treaty with the indian tribes as they were called them because there wasn't a central

00:03:39.900 indian government i'm using the word indian because that's the word in the treaty and that's the word

00:03:44.400 in the law the indian act um and frankly most indians i know call themselves indians um they were not 0.66

00:03:51.700 organized they did not have newspapers they in in fact didn't have written language at all so to do a

00:03:57.540 contract to do a treaty with an entire nation of indians was very difficult but they had they just 1.00

00:04:04.980 basically went around talking to elders and talking to chiefs and bosses and trying to cobble together

00:04:10.520 enough signatures that they could say yeah we have extinguished any interest that everyone else had

00:04:16.200 because they all signed this without further ado let me read articles of a treaty made and concluded

00:04:21.100 near carlton on the 23rd day of august and on the 28th day of said month respectively and near fort

00:04:27.780 pit on the ninth day of september in the year of our lord 1876 between her most gracious majesty the

00:04:36.040 queen of great britain and ireland remember this was before ireland broke away so even the name of

00:04:41.340 the empire is different by her commissioners the honorable alexander morris lieutenant governor of the

00:04:47.260 province of manitoba and the northwest territories remember this is before alberta and saskatchewan

00:04:52.000 and the honorable james mckay and the honorable william joseph christie of the one part and the

00:04:58.340 plain and wood cree and other tribes of indians inhabitants of the country within the limits here

00:05:02.860 and after defined and described by their chiefs chosen and named as here and after mentioned of the

00:05:09.000 other part whereas the indians inhabiting the said country have pursuant to an appointment made by

00:05:15.640 said commissioners being convened at meetings at fort carlton fort pit and battle river

00:05:20.320 to deliberate upon certain matters of interest to her most gracious majesty of the one part and the

00:05:26.800 said indians on the other so basically they're saying all right we got these indian chiefs and

00:05:31.780 other leaders together in these different towns and forts on different days and it was for the purpose

00:05:37.440 of doing a deal and whereas the said indians have been notified and informed by her majesty said

00:05:43.580 commissioners that it is the desire of her majesty to open up for settlement immigration and such other

00:05:50.520 purposes as to her majesty may seem meet attractive country bounded and described as here and after

00:05:57.200 mentioned and to obtain the consent thereto of her indian subjects inhabiting the said tract and to make

00:06:04.700 a treaty and arrange with them so that there may be peace and goodwill between them and her majesty

00:06:10.680 and that they may know and be assured of what allowance they are to court upon account upon

00:06:15.280 and receive from her majesty's bounty and benevolence so this is the queen's agents the commissioners the

00:06:22.800 the governors this is their job is to do a deal with the indians that the indians understand it 1.00

00:06:29.440 that there's peace and goodwill but they express some of the goals immigration settlement and whatever

00:06:35.280 other purposes are necessary and whereas the indians of the said tract duly convened in council as

00:06:41.240 aforesaid and being requested by her majesty said commissioners to name certain chiefs and head men

00:06:46.520 who should be authorized on their behalf to conduct such negotiations and sign any treaty to be founded

00:06:52.320 thereon and to become responsible to her majesty for their faithful performance by their respective

00:06:57.600 bands of such obligations as shall be assumed by them the said indians have thereupon named for that

00:07:02.820 purpose that is to say representing the indians who make the treaty at carlton the several chiefs and

00:07:08.140 counselors who have subscribed here too and representing the indians who make the treaty at fort pitt the

00:07:13.540 several chiefs and counselors who have subscribed here too so they're saying look they don't really

00:07:18.860 have a political system that we know of so we are deputizing these guys as chiefs and these guys as head

00:07:25.480 men and it's their job to negotiate and sign a deal and then to make sure their followers follow it

00:07:32.220 and thereupon an open council the different bands having presented their chiefs to the said

00:07:36.820 commissioners as the chiefs and head men for the purpose aforesaid of the respective bands of indians

00:07:42.260 inhabiting the said district here and after described and whereas the said commissioners then and there

00:07:48.320 received and acknowledged the person so presented as chiefs and head men for the purposes aforesaid

00:07:53.720 i know this is a lot of detail i just want to show you the thinking because it's sort of the the

00:07:58.080 this tells a story doesn't it this treaty tells a story of well why are we doing this well the queen

00:08:04.540 wants to settle the land and get immigrants and farmers in there okay what about the other side 1.00

00:08:09.660 well they were assembled and they chose their chiefs and head men and and their job was to make sure

00:08:16.080 their followers follow and the respective bands of indians inhabiting the said here and after described

00:08:21.120 and whereas said commissioners have proceeded to negotiate a treaty with the said indians and the

00:08:27.040 same has been finally agreed upon and concluded as follows that is to say okay so that's a very long

00:08:33.100 preamble and here is the treaty as concluded i hope you're still with me the plain and wood creed tribes

00:08:40.040 of indians and all other the indians happening the district here and after described and defined do

00:08:45.740 hereby and here's the key word this is the most important sentence this is actually why i'm doing this

00:08:51.060 monologue i want you to read this sentence and think about it these indians do hereby seed release 1.00

00:08:59.880 surrender and yield up to the government of the dominion of canada for her majesty and the queen

00:09:07.760 and her successors forever all their rights titles and privileges whatsoever to the lands included

00:09:16.780 within the following limits that is to say and i'll describe the land in a second but i just read to

00:09:22.900 you really the most important sentence in this whole treaty that these indians on their own part and on

00:09:30.820 behalf of all their fellow indians seed surrender this is a treaty of surrender i'm i know that's hard to

00:09:39.560 to take if you are an activist who believes in you know progressive liberal views no it was a treaty of

00:09:47.680 surrender and the indian chiefs and headmen gave up all privileges whatsoever to the lands and then

00:09:55.740 they described the lands and i'm not going to read the whole thing because it's quite a intricate

00:09:58.540 description commencing at the mouth of the river emptying into the northwest angle of cumberland lake

00:10:05.720 thence westerly up the said river to its source then on a straight line in a westerly direction to the

00:10:11.680 head of green lake thence northerly to the elbow in beaver river thence down the said river northerly

00:10:17.200 to a point like you see what i mean it just goes through the details the tract comprised within the

00:10:23.640 lines above described embracing an area of a hundred and twenty one thousand square miles be the same more

00:10:31.160 or less to have and to hold the same to her majesty the queen and her successors forever that includes

00:10:40.100 now and her majesty the queen hereby agrees and undertakes to lay aside reserves for farming lands

00:10:47.780 due respect being had to lands at present cultivated by the said indians and other reserves for the 0.87

00:10:53.040 benefit of said indians to be administered and dealt with by them for her by her majesty's government 0.99

00:10:58.660 of the dominion of canada provided all such reserves shall not exceed in all one square mile for each

00:11:06.580 family of five or in that proportion for larger or smaller families in manner of following that is to

00:11:12.800 say that the chief superintendent of indian affairs shall depute and send a suitable person to determine

00:11:18.600 and set apart the reserves for each band after consulting with the indians thereof as to the local

00:11:25.040 which may be found to be the most suitable for them so they give up all the land all the rights they 0.90

00:11:32.900 seat and surrender it to the queen but the queen says okay for each family of five you get a square

00:11:38.680 mile we're reserving that out now it's called an indian reserve and um it's going to be measured and

00:11:45.100 handled and dealt with by the commissioners but you've surrendered everything but the queen is going

00:11:49.260 to give you some land to farm i'll keep reading provided however that her majesty reserves the

00:11:54.740 right to deal with any settlers within the bounds of any lands reserved for any band as she shall deem fit

00:12:01.000 and also that the aforesaid reserves of land or any interest therein may be sold or otherwise

00:12:07.600 disposed of by her majesty's government for the use and benefit of the said indians entitled thereto 1.00

00:12:12.600 with their consent first had and obtained so there is some ability to sell it but you've got to

00:12:18.760 give some consent first to the indians and with a view to show the satisfaction of her majesty with

00:12:25.040 the behavior and good conduct of her indians she hereby through her commissioners makes them a present

00:12:31.240 of twelve dollars for each man woman and child belonging to the bands here represented

00:12:35.720 in extinguishment of all claims heretofore preferred so the queen is saying look i appreciate you doing

00:12:44.700 this i'm going to give you some money as a kind of gratuitous gift because all your claims are

00:12:52.260 extinguished and further her majesty agrees to maintain schools for instruction in such reserves

00:13:00.780 hereby made as to the as to her government of the dominion of canada may deem advisable whenever the

00:13:06.300 indians of the reserve shall desire it so the queen is promising look i'm going to educate your kids 0.98

00:13:12.060 that's where these residential schools came in and they have been besmirched because of course there 1.00

00:13:17.080 were some some bad behavior in residential schools as frankly there are in residential schools for

00:13:21.940 in cities or for rich kids or poor kids too there is some bad behavior but many of the indian families 1.00

00:13:28.460 wanted their kids to get a modern education and that's what these schools did her majesty further

00:13:35.080 agrees with her said indians so within the boundary of indian reserves until otherwise determined by her

00:13:41.260 government of the dominion of canada no intoxicating liquor shall be allowed to be introduced or sold

00:13:47.000 and all our laws now in force are here and after to be enacted to preserve her indian subjects inhabiting

00:13:53.500 the reserves or living elsewhere within her northwest territories from the evil influence of the use of 0.62

00:13:59.540 intoxicating liquors shall be strictly enforced that's sort of incredible that the queen is saying i'm banning

00:14:07.420 alcohol from the whole place but it was the case look you know um the europeans brought alcohol to the

00:14:16.780 americas the americas brought tobacco to the europeans i'd like to joke that must mean a hell of a party

00:14:24.340 neither side was really quite used to the other but it is a fact that alcohol has been a great detriment

00:14:30.300 to first nations people by the way when i grew up i don't know if it's still the same i know the blood

00:14:34.220 reserve southwest of calgary was a dry reserve um so i don't know if that's the case all across treaty

00:14:40.760 six but i know when i was growing up and i actually went on the blood reserve it was an alcohol free

00:14:45.360 zone her majesty further agrees with her said indians that they the said indians shall have a right to

00:14:53.680 preserve pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as herein

00:15:00.380 before described subject to such regulations as may from time to time be made by her government of her

00:15:05.900 dominion of canada and saving and accepting such tracts as may from time to time be required or taken up

00:15:11.560 for settlement mining lumbering or other purposes by her said government of the dominion of canada or by

00:15:18.640 any of the subjects thereof duly authorized therefore for the said government so indians were allowed to

00:15:24.140 keep their traditional hunting and fishing although white folks had and the government had the right 1.00

00:15:30.320 to use those lands for other purposes too there have been some problems because of course the avocation of

00:15:37.100 hunting and fishing was a subsistence economy does that apply to industrial scale fishing let's say on

00:15:43.900 rivers which something was clearly not contemplated back then i'll keep reading is it did you find this

00:15:50.620 interesting i find this fascinating um and there's even language there her indians i mean the queen

00:15:56.600 obviously loved her people but was doing a deal with them having them having surrendered she's saying

00:16:04.580 okay you're going to get some land you're going to get schooling you're going to have fishing and

00:16:07.360 hunting and you're going to have the right to do your farming um this is a deal and i suppose the

00:16:13.740 alternative to this deal is how it would be in another jurisdiction where the domestic population was just 0.87

00:16:20.400 killed that's how the world's empires were the british empire was the gentlest and most

00:16:26.460 progressive empire in the world you know how i know that they banned slavery the spanish empire didn't

00:16:33.640 the portuguese empire didn't french empire didn't dutch empire didn't there was a lot of empires

00:16:39.720 around the world even italy had the empire in northern africa it was only the english that banned

00:16:44.800 slavery this was the gentlest empire in the world by the way

00:16:47.920 it is further agreed between her majesty and her said indians that such sections of the reserves 0.86

00:16:54.460 above indicated as may at any time be required for public works or buildings of whatever of what

00:16:59.640 nature soever may be appropriated for the purpose by her majesty's government and the dominion of

00:17:04.740 canada due compensation being made for the value of any improvements thereon

00:17:08.960 and further that her majesty's commissioner shall as soon as possible after the execution of this treaty

00:17:15.420 caused to be taken an accurate census of all the indians inhabiting the tract above described

00:17:21.960 distributing them in families and shall in every year ensuing the date hereof at some period in each

00:17:28.560 year to be duly notified to the indians and at a place or places to be appointed for that purpose

00:17:34.180 within the territory seated pay to each indian person the sum of five dollars per head yearly

00:17:41.480 now five dollars back then it's not a ton of money now a couple hundred bucks per indian of course

00:17:50.120 in reality indian affairs pays tens of thousands of dollars per indian

00:17:55.840 it is further agreed between her majesty and the said indians that the sum of fifteen hundred dollars

00:18:01.240 per annum shall be yearly and every year expended by her majesty in the purchase of ammunition

00:18:06.140 and twine for nets for the use of the said indians in manner following that is to say in the reasonable 0.99

00:18:12.160 discretion as regards the distribution thereof among the indians inhabiting the silver reserves

00:18:17.320 or otherwise including herein so the government's going to buy them tools like ammo for hunting

00:18:24.460 it's further agreed between her majesty and the said indians that the following articles shall be

00:18:30.600 supplied to any band of the said indians who are now cultivating the soil or who shall hereafter

00:18:36.460 commence to cultivate the land that is to say four hoes for every family actually cultivating also 1.00

00:18:43.060 two spades per family as a force said one plow for every three families as a force said one harrow for

00:18:50.120 every three families as a force said two sides and one what stone and two hay forks and two reaping

00:18:55.880 hooks for every family as a force said and also two axes and also one cross cut saw one hand saw one

00:19:02.300 pit saw the necessary files one grindstone and one auger for each band and also for each chief for the use

00:19:10.660 of his band one chest of ordinary carpenters tools also for each band enough wheat barley potatoes and oats

00:19:17.620 to plant the land actually broken up for such cultivation by such band isn't that interesting the

00:19:24.240 detail i mean so the queen was taken over the indians surrendered everything all their land and all

00:19:32.500 their rights but the queen said listen don't worry here's what i'm going to give you now was it too

00:19:37.060 much is it too little i don't know it's more than any other country gave the indigenous folks where they

00:19:41.600 conquered and the undersigned chiefs on their own behalf and on behalf of other indians inhabiting the

00:19:47.540 tract within seated do hereby solemnly promise and engage to strictly observe this treaty and also

00:19:53.980 to conduct and behave themselves as good and loyal subjects of her majesty the queen they promise and

00:19:59.680 engage that they will in all respects obey and abide by the law they will maintain peace and good order

00:20:04.900 between each other and also between themselves and other tribes of indians and between themselves and

00:20:09.980 others of her majesty's subjects whether indians or whites now inhabiting or hereafter to inhabit any part

00:20:17.040 of the said seated tracts and that they will not molest the person or property of any inhabitant

00:20:22.340 of such seated tracts or the property of her majesty the queen or interfere with or trouble any person

00:20:28.480 passing or traveling through the said tracts or any part thereof and that they will aid and assist the

00:20:34.540 officers of her majesty in bringing to justice and punishment any indian indian offending against

00:20:40.280 the stipulations of this treaty or infringing the laws in force in the country so seated

00:20:45.360 that's a hell of a contract that's a treaty and now you know and then they sign it in witness hereof her

00:20:53.100 majesty said commissioners and the said indian chiefs have hereunto subscribed and set their hands at or

00:20:59.560 near fort carleton on the days in year of four said and your fort pit fort pit on the days above four said

00:21:05.820 recorded 24th february 1877 and you can see uh the different names and then here's what i mean by an

00:21:15.220 adhesion so they had this big signing but later other indians that they came upon said hey we want to sign

00:21:22.860 that too so they call that an adhesion by creed indians we the undersigned chiefs and headmen of the creed

00:21:29.020 and other bands of indians having had communication of the treaty a copy of which is printed in the report

00:21:34.020 of the minister on the interior for the year ending 30th of june 1876 concluded etc etc etc so they want

00:21:40.640 to join in so they say yeah we heard about the treaty we know who signed it but not having been

00:21:47.620 present when the negotiations were being conducted at the above mentioned places do hereby for ourselves

00:21:52.960 and the bands which we represent agree to all the terms conditions covenants and engagements

00:21:57.700 of whatever kind enumerated in the said treaty and accept the same as if we had been present

00:22:03.740 and had consented and agreed to the same treaty was first signed and executed so there's several

00:22:10.820 adhesions on and on that is treaty six very interesting historical document very interesting

00:22:20.180 cultural document very interesting analysis of how the different parties viewed each other

00:22:25.940 some people would say that there was a great dis imbalance of power some people might even question

00:22:34.100 if that legalese was well understood to the indians i would imagine that the negotiations was more in

00:22:40.200 plain language and that the legalese was just just like when you have an agreement with a friend or

00:22:45.380 any other agreement lawyers gussy it up because they need a certain precision that the legal language

00:22:50.840 affords them but that's treaty six and so i ask you what i started off this monologue by saying

00:22:56.420 when you have a surrender document the word is in there where you give up all claims to the land

00:23:03.320 whatsoever how can you possibly make some of the claims that indigenous politicians and more usually

00:23:10.920 their white uh activist friends do based on the treaties that's a treaty of surrender my friend

00:23:19.360 stay with us next up my friend alexa lavoire back from cuba to talk to us about it

00:23:26.360 welcome back you know rebel news has been around for about 10 and a half years now um actually

00:23:41.120 almost 11 years i want to tell you the most scary moment of those 10 and a half years it was not when

00:23:47.800 i was arrested briefly in toronto and was taken to jail i actually wasn't scared at all i knew it was a

00:23:53.740 false arrest i knew i would be released quickly and i knew i would sue the toronto police which i

00:23:58.320 have done uh it's not when i bumped into larry fink the ceo of black rock and he tried to intimidate me

00:24:05.640 by taking my picture i knew that was just his attempt to do something anything to scare me off

00:24:10.660 now i'll tell you the scariest moment in the nearly 11 years of running this place

00:24:15.120 was when alexa lavoire and efron monsanto flew to cuba to do their undercover reporting

00:24:23.460 because of course they were using their real passports and we weren't going to try and

00:24:27.140 give them forged documents with not that cloak and dagger and we had sort of talked about how

00:24:33.760 they would answer the question what are you doing down here well we're here on a vacation and they

00:24:38.560 were posing as a couple going to havana they were we booked them into a havana hotel and i watched as

00:24:44.360 their flight it was a snowstorm in toronto so i watched i tracked their flight there's all sorts of

00:24:49.740 different websites where you can see the plane's progress as it goes and the flight was a little

00:24:55.540 bit late so it landed in havana i saw it online landing in havana just after 7 p.m i thought okay

00:25:01.640 i know that when you land in calgary or vancouver or toronto on a foreign flight you have to line up

00:25:07.240 at customs and i thought okay it's probably going to take a couple hours i thought so i'm not going

00:25:12.180 to worry okay so seven o'clock turned into eight o'clock turned into nine o'clock i thought okay i should

00:25:18.100 be hearing from them fairly soon like just a message that they're okay then 10 o'clock then 11 o'clock

00:25:23.400 now it's four hours and midnight so they have been on the ground for five hours and i haven't heard a

00:25:32.120 word and i thought to myself even in the most uh red tape uh kafka-esque bureaucracy it wouldn't take

00:25:42.640 five hours to get through customs and then i got terrified i thought how would i know if they were

00:25:49.980 arrested what if they were arrested and taken to jail i just simply don't know and i don't know how

00:25:55.360 to contact them because they took what we call burner phones down there they didn't take their

00:26:00.220 phones you know modern smartphones of all your email and all your content contacts and you know

00:26:06.020 you don't go to certain places with your real phone you don't go to china with your real phone you

00:26:09.680 go to russia with your real phone because they'll scan it and snoop on it so we sent alexa and afron

00:26:15.680 down there with burner phones and five hours in i started to well i don't know about i don't think

00:26:21.480 panic is the word but i got truly scared i thought what if they've been arrested and so i broke protocol

00:26:29.640 and i phoned the hotel where they were staying and i just said have they arrived and she said in her

00:26:36.900 broken english oh yeah they've arrived and i thought oh my goodness and then it wasn't too much longer 0.67

00:26:41.340 when afron sent me just a a friendly email saying yeah they landed and i was relieved because it was

00:26:47.580 that first moment at customs that i thought would be the stickiest moment anyways i have to tell you

00:26:53.940 i was genuinely scared and i thought to myself what have i done because the bravery required to go

00:27:00.280 into an authoritarian regime where merely criticizing the regime gets you if you're a citizen five or ten

00:27:07.620 years in prison now i knew that if alexa and afron were arrested they would not be sentenced to five

00:27:13.540 or ten years in prison they would probably be held in prison a few days and then deported but even that

00:27:18.760 might be very unpleasant in a place like cuba their jails are not like our jails luckily it was just a

00:27:26.440 combination of moving through customs very slowly and the fact that they have very poor internet and

00:27:33.620 phone service there and that our team had uh dumbed down burner phones anyways i just wanted to tell you

00:27:40.760 in the ten and a half years here that was the scariest moment i had and joining me now is one of our

00:27:46.880 two intrepid reporters who went undercover at risk of jail alexa lavoire alexa great to see you and i just

00:27:53.980 wanted to tell that story you really had me worried when you landed and i didn't hear from you for five

00:27:59.840 hours i really thought that there was a chance you were arrested thank god that didn't happen

00:28:04.580 actually i didn't have any uh access to my email i didn't have access to anything so i all my um faith

00:28:15.340 was on efron to actually send an email to say that we are alive well i'm so glad tell me what it was

00:28:23.800 like so you went down there you used your real name and it would be foolish to try and hide who

00:28:28.760 you were if someone were to type in your name in google it would pop up that you were with rebel

00:28:33.440 news so we didn't try and hide that or lie lying could probably get you into bigger trouble so what

00:28:40.220 was it like you landed at the airport in haven i've never been to cuba i take it it's a smallish

00:28:46.380 airport it's not going to be a busy hub like toronto what was it like you you went on i think

00:28:51.640 west jet if i recall um was the plane full who met you at the airport were there police or was it just

00:28:58.540 a board someone who just rubber stamped your passport what was it like and did they ask you

00:29:04.080 questions about who you were or did they just assume you were tourists and wave you in

00:29:08.040 um it was really a small airport and when we arrived it was only one plane who actually landed

00:29:14.800 um and the first room that you enter you need to go and scan your visa um and then you return to the

00:29:24.820 line for going to the custom but i think is it took so much time i don't know what was happening and

00:29:33.360 what was the whole process but for every single person it was taking so much time to verify the

00:29:40.860 probably the passport or anything but they didn't actually ask us any questions so we gave the

00:29:47.740 passport they took our picture then they gave back our passport and then go

00:29:54.520 well thank god i mean i have to tell you i was on the edge of my seat so i take it then you went in

00:30:01.680 a bus with the rest of the people into the city and obviously we chose to send you to havana the big

00:30:09.080 city the capital city as opposed to a beach resort a beach resort you would be hidden from the local

00:30:14.100 population the staff at the hotel would be very careful they wouldn't say anything in fact they

00:30:18.940 probably would be friendlier to the regime because they have a a job that gets them better food tips 0.98

00:30:25.340 in u.s money like working at a resort in cuba is considered a a great job isn't it because you have

00:30:31.760 access to westerners some of whom uh bring gifts like whether it's you know toiletries or or clothing

00:30:40.280 a lot of people when they go to cuba actually bring things to leave because they know the people there

00:30:45.240 are so poor right yes so the best job that you can have is either working for the regime or working

00:30:51.920 in hotel uh first of all because you sleep there you eat there and you have a salary um as an example

00:31:01.860 someone say that doctors and teachers have a lower salary than the people who work in the hotel

00:31:10.240 and so they have to beg in the streets as a second job because uh they can't afford to feed their family 0.61

00:31:18.600 you understand here in cuba you work and salaries are very low I work as a teacher in school

00:31:27.480 of children my salary per month is 2.800 pesos per month which is $7 per month

00:31:39.540 it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing I live with my family I have two girls one of five and one of three

00:31:50.420 my girls have two years drinking water with sugar 1.00

00:31:56.420 I've been able to teach your friends to the country what happened

00:32:04.420 it's so heartbreaking that was the number one thing I watched your video obviously I watched the

00:32:21.300 uh the video being edited so I've seen it several times and the number one thing that hits me besides

00:32:26.060 the fact that Havana is turning into an open-air garbage dump because they've stopped running the

00:32:31.700 garbage trucks because they're running out of fuel like that's it's just so shocking but the that's

00:32:38.260 the first thing these mountainous piles of garbage everywhere which is got to be unhygienic I'm sure it

00:32:43.480 doesn't smell good there's got to be rats in there like it's a terrible thing but the second thing is the

00:32:48.640 abject poverty I have traveled in various places in the world and it reminded me of the poverty I saw in

00:32:56.180 Port-au-Prince Haiti people living in what looked like bombed out buildings the the the apartments

00:33:02.300 these people were living in it looked like it had been attacked in a war but it's it's just 70 years

00:33:09.100 of neglect under the communists like they the excruciating poverty I didn't know Cubans were so

00:33:15.960 poor maybe you know and it reminds me of what happened in Venezuela which used to be one of the richest

00:33:20.360 countries in the world until communism and socialism undermined it too were you shocked by how poor and

00:33:27.900 how hungry everyone was yeah I've been to Cuba many years ago I think it was 10 or 12 years ago and at

00:33:36.020 that time I knew Cuba was a poor country but now what I saw was something else I've been traveling in many

00:33:45.580 many countries in my life and I think Cuba it's one of them where I can say that I think it's one of

00:33:52.860 the poorest place that I did visit in my life I've been to India I've been to Africa but I can tell you 0.88

00:33:59.940 that over there it's just despair it's just there is nothing left like building are collapsing garbages

00:34:07.380 are just pilling up there is no food you go to the drugstore there is literally no medicine

00:34:14.800 it's empty shelves there is line up for going to buy bread and there is only a certain amount of

00:34:21.780 breads available per day because they run out of flour or other ingredients

00:34:27.960 this is the box that we have a book that we have a book of reasoning that goes monthly and what

00:34:36.600 comes now only this is the measure of six pounds five pounds of water and a half pounds of water for the whole month for a whole family

00:34:46.920 so it's really sad to see it's uh it's sad also to hear like some parents saying that

00:35:04.540 they give sugar water to their kids because they cannot afford to give them anything else

00:35:10.660 it's so heartbreaking now you two stood out just by how you look how you dress uh I mean you clearly

00:35:19.060 were tourists what was the reaction when people saw you did you were in Havana so you weren't at a resort

00:35:25.480 you were right in the heart of the city you were staying in a hotel that it I online it looked nice

00:35:31.480 enough it was surely nicer than the accommodations of 99% of Cubans you want went out into the street 1.00

00:35:38.980 did people come up to you did they want to tell you things did they want to sell you things what was

00:35:44.440 it like interacting with Cuban people before you got into your conversations with them

00:35:49.060 but first of all uh the main street uh the street of the capital um it's really touristy

00:35:56.140 uh a lot of people are like harassing you to sell you all kind of like stuff or a trip with uh those

00:36:04.200 vintage cars um but when you go a little bit outside and when you just you know you you look at the

00:36:12.300 garbage or you look at some graffiti people are just coming up to you and say you see how life is and

00:36:21.980 and then you start talking like just like casually talking about all kind of stuff about life about

00:36:30.920 how it is now in Cuba and people wants to speak they are just afraid that they are being caught by

00:36:39.580 some secret police but they open up like pretty uh fast uh to to tell like their story and the thing

00:36:49.160 that they were asking is like please tell the world what we are living under because we can't we

00:36:56.900 can't continue like that estamos encantados de conocernos Ibrahim Ibrahim y Alexa en este momento

00:37:05.080 porque ya que somos cubanos que son canadiense y ellos quieren saber la realidad cubana la realidad cubana

00:37:12.000 les voy a explicar en este momento que todo está sintiendo un servicio de cambio de asociación social

00:37:16.900 de cuba muchas personas dicen no la cubina cubina la cubina fue para todo el mundo pero normalmente

00:37:22.500 después que mueren los documentales de fidel las cosas en cuba wow that's it's heartbreaking some of

00:37:28.620 the poverty was just in in the the video that we published that you filmed was just incredible

00:37:33.920 um did you encounter any supporters for the regime who didn't also work for the regime so for example

00:37:44.980 if someone was in a hotel they would probably say something nice about the regime because they have

00:37:50.220 the best job they could a policeman would probably say something nice about the regime but once you

00:37:55.160 spoke to an ordinary person living in poverty did any of them still say you know socialismo o muerte

00:38:03.480 or something like were they still mouthing the slogans of the socialist regime or was everyone

00:38:10.580 just burnt out by it long ago stopped supporting it like i were there any people who still thought

00:38:19.820 communism worked i don't think people think that communism works uh but i think it is they have

00:38:27.440 been indoctrinated since young age to believe that communism revolution and fidel castro was actually

00:38:34.420 the best thing for cubans so there is still some people believing that fidel was a great man um but with the

00:38:42.240 social media um this opened a new door of information for them and it's how uh they started questioning

00:38:49.540 questioning everything questioning the life they are living under and you can see now that people are

00:38:58.140 not dumb they they see what is happening and especially when fidel castro passed and raul his brother

00:39:06.980 took the the place and now um everybody say that okay the president is uh diaz canel but no it's actually

00:39:16.840 raul that is behind and is ruling the country still but people are saying now that the country is falling

00:39:25.460 apart faster than ever and and but they are they still believe some of them that fidel was a great man

00:39:36.640 some of them say that they never actually asked for the revolution but one thing they all liked

00:39:44.660 um jake vera really wow isn't that interesting i suppose it's like um in china mao has become has

00:39:54.340 turned into a bit of a legend um more than a reality isn't that interesting now you mentioned social media

00:40:00.400 i i imagine the internet is highly censored there what kind of information did people know did they know

00:40:09.680 about the the arrest of uh nicholas maduro the dictator of venezuelan did they know about trump sort of

00:40:18.480 operating in venezuela what what did they know about and what did it come from independent sources or did

00:40:26.420 it come from communist sources there is both so you can see uh in the tv because we me and efron we were

00:40:35.520 watching the tv and um there is actually ads of um it's ads for bringing back maduro and that uh the

00:40:45.200 u.s operation was actually um anti-democratic and uh and that uh all the fault is on donald trump

00:40:53.840 okay

00:41:01.120 It's going to make the soup worse too.

00:41:08.120 Yes, because it can't be, it's not good.

00:41:12.120 Look at that.

00:41:15.120 Caldo?

00:41:17.120 No, arroz, no, caldo.

00:41:19.120 Oh, okay.

00:41:21.120 Water in the soup.

00:41:23.120 Look at this.

00:41:25.120 But on the other hand, they heard that there were no Cubans in Venezuela when this happened.

00:41:45.120 And then they heard that 32 Cubans died.

00:41:50.120 And so they started questioning, but you just say that there were no Cubans in Venezuela.

00:41:55.120 But now you're saying that there were 32 Cubans who died.

00:42:01.120 So they were able then to start questioning, so you're lying to us.

00:42:07.120 So what else should I know?

00:42:10.120 And then they started looking at social media and looking at certain probably news that they have access.

00:42:19.120 But again, it's really, really dangerous for them to go and check on social media or on internet.

00:42:28.120 Because everything is controlled.

00:42:30.120 Everything is monitored.

00:42:31.120 And if they find out that they have social media on their phone or they have been watching other news on their phone, they can be jailed.

00:42:41.120 Internet, you're internet.

00:42:42.120 No, no, no, no, no.

00:42:44.120 Do you?

00:42:45.120 No, no, no, no.

00:42:46.120 La libertad es preso.

00:42:48.120 Habla muy bajito.

00:42:49.120 No problema.

00:42:50.120 Si no preso.

00:42:51.120 Porque si enseñas en Cuba, polis a mi.

00:42:54.120 Yo preso.

00:42:56.120 Aquí hay muchas prisiones.

00:42:58.120 Wow. Now, what reaction have you had? The video has not yet been out for a full 24 hours. Have you had a reaction from Cuban exiles in Miami? I know you went down to Miami a few weeks ago when Maduro was toppled. Have you made any connections with other Cuban freedom fighters? What's happened in the last day?

00:43:22.540 Yeah, we have a former candidate for the Conservative Party of Quebec that is Cuban himself. He actually moved in Quebec 25 years ago. And he was actually so happy to see that report. He was actually glad and he said that he's going to share it with all the expats.

00:43:43.780 But as well on X, there is a lot of Cuban who actually share my reports. I have some of them who actually wrote to me privately.

00:43:56.320 And I have also some people reached out to me by email saying that they actually live in Cuba part time and they want to share some other part of Cuba and how it's even worse when you go out of Havana.

00:44:13.620 Wow. Well, listen, I'm so proud of you and Efron. And I recognize that we put you and you chose to go into harm's way, which is a very courageous thing to do. You knew that you were at risk. And that's why I was so nervous when I didn't hear from you for five hours. I thought, oh, my God, that risk has come true.

00:44:33.020 But I'm glad you went and you didn't go. It was not a vacation at all. You just walked the streets all day talking to real people. And the results show it. For folks who haven't seen the video, I played some of it yesterday, but you can see the whole thing at thetruthaboutcuba.com.

00:44:51.880 Well, congratulations, Alexa, to you and Efron. And thanks very much for doing this.

00:44:56.180 Thank you. And thank you for giving Cuban a voice because I received the assignment, but the first person who decided it was you.

00:45:08.320 Well, I knew you would do a great job there in Efron, too. Thank you, my friend, for that.

00:45:13.680 Thank you so much.

00:45:14.840 There she is, Alexa Lavoie, one of the two-person duo who went to Havana. Stay with us. Your letters to me next.

00:45:21.640 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - February 07, 2026

Have you ever read a Canadian treaty？ It might surprise you. Let’s do it together.

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