Investigated by the Competition Bureau... for being climate change skeptics
Summary
Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition joins me to talk about his harrowing tale of political persecution at the hands of the Competition Bureau and the radical left. He talks about how the federal government tried to silence him and other climate deniers.
Transcript
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Hello Rebels, I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my Wednesday night show, The Gunn Show.
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Tonight my guest is Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition.
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Environmentalist activists tried to censor two prominent skeptics of the climate change agenda here in Canada
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and the environmentalists use the Competition Bureau to do it.
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I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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Right now I'm sure our regular viewers and listeners are well aware
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that my boss Ezra Levant is under investigation by the elections commissioner
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because he wrote a best-selling book called The Libranos that detailed all the corruption of Justin Trudeau.
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Now two dozen other books were also written about Justin Trudeau in the lead-up to the federal election.
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However, the only one that was both highly successful and highly critical of Justin Trudeau
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is the only one under investigation for breaking campaign finance laws.
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Ezra wisely recorded his conversation with the two former cop investigators with the elections commissioner
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and you can see that secret recording and read the complaint against Ezra
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and see our plan of attack to fight back at SaveRebelNews.com.
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But this isn't the first time a federal agency was weaponized by the left to silence their critics.
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The environmentalist movement weaponized the Competition Bureau to try to shut up
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the International Climate Science Coalition and Friends of Science.
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And today my guest is show regular Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition
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to tell us about his harrowing tale of political persecution
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at the hands of the Competition Bureau and the radical left.
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Joining me now is Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition.
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And I wanted to have Tom on the show, first of all, because he's just an interesting guy
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and he's becoming a bit of a fan favorite around here, but also because Tom has faced some
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of the same censorship that we are facing here at Rebel News, albeit Tom's censorship came
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in the form of another federal government agency.
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The outcome for Tom would have been the same, that Tom could not exercise his free speech
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Please give us a rundown of your run-in with the federal government and how they tried to
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Well, International Climate Science Coalition was incorporated in Ontario in 2011.
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We operated for, you know, four and a half years out of Ontario with no problem exercising
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our constitutional right to free speech and giving our opinions on climate change.
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Justin Trudeau was elected prime minister, of course, in November of 2015.
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And whoa, within about a month, we got a letter.
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I was actually at the Paris counter-conference that was being put on.
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We got a letter from the Competition Bureau of Canada.
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And it said that we will be, it actually said, first of all, I should tell you who the Competition
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They're an independent law enforcement agency that, quote, has a legislative mandate to ensure
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Canadian consumers and businesses prosper in a competitive and innovative marketplace.
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Now, you'd think, OK, competition, that's great.
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They're actually a federal institution that's part of the Innovation, Science and Economic
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That's under the minister, let's see, Nabdi Baines, I guess his name is.
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But, you know, it's interesting because they notified us when I was in Paris in 2015, and
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I called them right back and tried to find out what's going on.
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But regardless, a group called Ecojustice, they filed a complaint with the Competition
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They said that we presented, this is the International Climate Science Coalition, presented climate
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science misrepresentations, which promote the denier group's own business interests and
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promote the business interests of deep-pocketed individuals and corporations that appear to
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Now, of course, that's a silly charge because, first of all, they had no idea who our funders
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But secondly, we weren't misrepresenting anything.
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We were giving our opinions on a very complicated idea, and that is that humans are causing dangerous
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climate change with our carbon dioxide emissions, which we don't agree with.
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And, of course, many scientists are on our side.
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Now, we got this, and I called the Bureau in Ottawa, and I tried to find out more, but it
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didn't really sound like they were actually going to launch the investigation because,
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you know, Chris Essex is a professor of applied mathematics at the University of Western
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He said, well, you know, these kinds of rules are established not to control the marketplace
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of ideas, they're to control things like in case a company says, oh, our toothpaste is
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Or, you know, yeah, or they criticize their opponents, their competitors, by saying things
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So it didn't seem that it would be very likely that they would actually launch the investigation.
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I mean, some of our people had, you know, they prepared a huge rebuttal.
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But I was advised by people who really understood what should be happening to do nothing, because,
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you know, basically the commissioner would decide to drop it.
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Five months later, we got a notice that said the complaint would be, in fact, investigated.
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And they said, referencing the complaint that, quote, we make representatives, representations
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to the public in promotion of a business interest that are false or misleading in a material
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Not very good wording there, respect regarding climate change.
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So they said, if, now here's the threatening part, which I'm sure Ezra is feeling right now.
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The Bureau warned us, and this is the exact quote from the communications, if the results of
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an investigation disclose evidence that, in the opinion of the commissioner, provides the
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basis for a criminal prosecution, the matter may be referred to the Attorney General of
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Canada, who determines whether a prosecution should be undertaken.
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So, of course, the first thing I asked the Bureau is, well, where did they think we made
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I mean, if we're being charged with something, like Ezra said, tell me what we're being charged
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They cited subsection 10-3 of the Competition Act, which requires inquiries to be conducted
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So I was being charged with something that wasn't being identified, and the investigation
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And it continued for 14 months, if you can believe that.
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There were 14 months before, and, you know, they sent me letters on occasion saying, you
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know, save all your documents, and this investigation is continuing.
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And finally, in November of 2016, let's see, I'll just get the exact dates here, a little
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later, 14 months after they launched it anyways, they decided to drop it, but they said that
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they could take enforcement action in respect of matters previously inquired into, including
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where additional information is discovered following the discontinuance of an inquiry.
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So they're basically saying, you know, the investigation is discontinued, but it's
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revivable if they receive additional information.
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And they even contacted the National Observer and said this, we invite Canadians who believe
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they may have additional information to contact the Competition Bureau.
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So, you know, I mean, it really asks the question, first of all, what are they doing investigating
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some group who is expressing their opinions on a science topic?
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It really sounds like the organization is being politicized to apply pressure to groups that
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And, you know, I have to be careful what I say, because I don't want them to relaunch the
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But essentially, they're saying that we can relaunch this thing anytime the commissioner feels that
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they have additional information or something to get us with.
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But, you know, the whole concept of using the Competition Bureau to kind of clamp down on ideas
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that disagree with the government, I mean, you know, that doesn't sound fair or just at all.
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So I really identify with Ezra, and I hope he does really well in his fight, because, you
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know, this is really kind of draconian when you see these kinds of things happening in a country
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that, you know, my father and grandfathers fought for, to defend freedom and freedom
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But we had 14 months of being under the pressure of an investigation.
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And that's, you know, that can intimidate a lot of people to just completely get out of
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And, you know, I think that's the point of it all.
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Um, that really is the point is just to use the fight, um, and the process as the punishment.
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You know, we've got a lawyer up, we've, and that costs money.
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We've basically turned some part of some part of the rebel into a, like a public interest
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We want to spend those resources doing the news and doing investigations and telling
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But it's, you know, it's an attempt to bleed you dry by these thousand different cuts and
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Thank God you guys kept doing what you were doing.
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They did the same thing at the same time to Friends of Science as they did to you, just
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I mean, and then they go about crowdsourcing more complaints.
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And they're supposed to be fostering competition.
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So it's kind of ironic that they would actually, you know, investigate competition.
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The whole thing is silly, but it's also kind of scary because they have this power to charge
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you or to recommend that you be charged with a criminal offense.
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Yeah, you know, and it's a lot of the outrage to what's happening to Ezra, it's coming from
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our American friends who can't even believe that that's the state of affairs in Canada.
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And there's very little outrage from authors, journalists, the mainstream Canada.
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So you know exactly just how risque their own work is, because they know that they're never
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going to be threatened with these sorts of things.
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Well, of course, what they're trying to do in some parts of the US is actually make climate
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Otherwise, we'd be under two feet, two kilometers of ice right now.
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But they're trying to make our point of view actually illegal to express.
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And, you know, it really kind of violates what the left say they hold dear.
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I mean, historically, there have been times when the left have been open to alternative
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Yeah, they keep talking about diversity, but they mean diversity of color and gender, but
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they really don't mean the most basic diversity.
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And that's our freedom to think differently from the people beside us, which is a great segue
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into the next thing I wanted to talk to you about, because Dr. Patrick Moore is under
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He was hired by the city of Regina to speak at a sustainability conference.
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And on paper, if you want to talk about sustainability, one of the founders of Greenpeace International,
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former president of Greenpeace Canada, a PhD in ecology, and someone who describes himself
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as a practical environmentalist who does like tangible things every single day to make
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He's the guy you want speaking as a keynote speaker at your sustainability conference.
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The problem is Dr. Patrick Moore doesn't believe that CO2 is the thermostat for global temperatures
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And so now they're putting pressure on the city of Regina to cancel him.
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Well, you know, it's not surprising that they are putting pressure because what Patrick Moore
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says, if people believe him, and certainly I do, and I think any intelligent person does when
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you follow the chain of arguments, is that carbon dioxide growth in the atmosphere has
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OK, we've seen an increase in crop yield and, you know, more dense forests and things like
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And of course, as CO2 rises, they find in experiments that plants can grow in areas that are otherwise
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And, you know, it's interesting because in our presentations in Montreal and Toronto, where
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Patrick was also speaking, he showed a graph, which I'm sure it must have really upset the
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He showed carbon dioxide as it was plotted against time over millions of years.
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And what he demonstrated was that CO2 was on its way down to 150 parts per million.
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If we had not intervened and started to inject CO2 into the atmosphere and at 150 parts per
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So Patrick's point is that were nature just left to do what it would do, we would see
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CO2 naturally go down to a level that life would actually die on Earth and we would indeed
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So his point is that our injection of CO2 is not only a good thing, it's an essential
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thing because it's actually saving life on Earth.
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And, you know, I want to read you a little bit of a quote from the Global News article about
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Patrick Moore's situation in which they're quoting a University of Regina professor,
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And it really shows you how silly this debate has become.
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She says, we're past the point in our history as a society that we can legitimize the idea
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So we're past the point in society where we can't debate a science topic.
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Like, I thought science was all about skepticism and debate.
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And then she goes on to say that these natural variations that we see in climate are not something
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So that sentence, actually, with a comma in the middle, doesn't actually make any sense
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because, of course, climate change is all the time.
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And we should help people adapt to climate change.
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But the idea that we can control it and the idea that it's not even legitimate to discuss
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Like some of the people who are critical of Patrick Moore are mad because he called climate
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change a cult religion, but they're treating him like an apostate.
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Like, if you don't want to be called a cult religion, maybe don't act like a cult religion.
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One of the, you know, one of the people who is sort of leading this charge to have Patrick
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Moore unpersoned and canceled is this woman called Shannon Zekidniak.
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She's the founder of a local environmental organization called Enviro Collective, two of my least
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favorite things, environmentalism and collectivism.
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And she said that she would like to see a better balance of keynote speakers, balance one
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slide of the debate, and those who have scientific credentials and represent progressive values.
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So I think Patrick Moore certainly has the credentials.
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I mean, these are the same people, though, which takes me nicely to our next topic.
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These are the very same people who hold up a 16-year-old, deeply troubled, truant child
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actor as an expert in climate science, but disregard someone like Patrick Moore, who is a PhD.
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I should be referring to him as Dr. Patrick Moore every time I say his name, because he is
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And yet we're nominating somebody like Greta Thunberg, who's really done nothing more than
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She's been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for her work in climate activism.
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If you read the definition of the Nobel Peace Prize, it's supposed to be going to those who,
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quote, have done the most or best work for fraternity, fraternity between nations for
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the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace
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I don't recall her ever saying anything about that.
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I guess the purpose of the Nobel Prize has been pretty politicized since the days it started
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But yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting because the person you've interviewed, Naomi
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say it on the other side, she's not anti-Greta.
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She just thinks that Greta is really being used as a puppet to support adults' point of
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And it is interesting that Greta does seem to have to have her points scripted for her.
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And I was reading recently that her father was doing some of her tweets.
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So, I mean, it's fine for her to have that point of view, but we shouldn't be holding her
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up as someone to follow, someone who hasn't even finished high school.
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And I mean, like you rightly point out, the Nobel Peace Prize has become very politicized.
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Obama got it before he even became president, didn't he?
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It was kind of like an aspirational Nobel Peace Prize.
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Yeah, I mean, they'll give it to anybody who espouses left wing values at this point.
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Yeah, he shared it with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
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But, you know, Sheila, one of the things that's really crazy about this is that the climate scare
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I mean, if you follow the climate scare to its logical conclusion, what you have is extremely
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You have lots of wind turbines bothering people and killing millions of birds and bats.
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I mean, the people I know on the left wing of the spectrum actually care about huge costs
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I mean, there are species of bats that are going to be driven to extinction if this keeps
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And, you know, it's interesting because with 300,000 industrial wind turbines around the
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world, we're getting still just as much power from fossil fuels as we were about 30 years
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So they really aren't contributing much, but they certainly are costing a lot.
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And they're doing a huge amount of damage to our ecology and our economy.
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And that will hurt the poor and, of course, wildlife more than anything.
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So why would the left support the climate scare?
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I mean, I think they should kick them off the stage so they can focus on issues that really
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You know, something I wanted to ask you about is your opinion column with Dr. Jay Lair that
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And it sort of stuck out for me because the criticism being leveled at Dr. Patrick Moore
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are that he needs to be silenced for balance, which, you know, what a strange thing to say.
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It's like they don't even know what that word means.
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But your article says that climate alarmists are winning the war of words, despite evidence
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So they are really sort of rewriting how we use the language to push their agenda.
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I mean, they call carbon dioxide emissions carbon pollution.
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I mean, people should just laugh and correct them right away.
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It's like soot or diamonds and it's not pollution.
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But there's all kinds of things that even people on the right use without actually thinking,
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No, actually, that would be the opposite of green because CO2 promotes plant growth.
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So, indeed, I mean, things like coal, for example, are green energy.
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It comes from the ground, comes from what used to be plants.
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So, we have to be careful on the right that we don't actually use the language of our opponents
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because the bottom line is they have, well, what they've done is they've incorporated the
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Search for George Orwell's book, 1984, and read the appendix, which is all about new speak.
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And, boy, it describes the climate debate right now.
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Even people on our side of the argument are often using these stupid terms, you know,
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So, I mean, we can't allow them to choose the debate or choose the words because it makes
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people think in the way they want them to think.
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And, of course, that was the whole point of new speak is they created a language and they
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chose words so that people would stop thinking, you know, in a critical way about anything
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So, yeah, we have to be careful about that, too.
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Last thing on our agenda that I wanted to talk to you about is that it sounds like the
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The benchmark that they're using for all the climate change rhetoric, it's not very useful
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What's happened is a few years ago they provided various emission scenarios that climate scientists
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would then use with their models to forecast what kind of climate change would happen.
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And one particular model was actually a very extreme example of what could happen if the
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amount of coal used increased by something like 500 percent.
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And, of course, the people who made up the scenario, they admitted that this was exceptionally
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I think they put a number of something like three percent chance of this happening.
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But, unfortunately, many climate scientists have taken this scenario, this emission scenario,
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and they've used it as the baseline in more than 2,000 research papers, often presenting
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it as mankind's future if we don't engage with additional mitigation policies to reduce
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And, of course, the media almost invariably takes these science papers and exaggerates even
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further, which, of course, leads to things like the, oh, we've got 12 years left to save
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Well, even the BBC last week admitted, uh-oh, something's wrong here.
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This was an extremely unlikely scenario and now is virtually impossible because the forecast
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is that coal usage will actually plateau around the middle of this century and will not increase
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So they're saying, oh, well, yeah, in fact, well, maybe the whole thing in which all these
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scientific research papers are based on is an exaggeration that simply will not happen and
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And it's kind of interesting because BBC still tried to say, oh, yeah, but it's going to be a
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So this, you know, Anthony Watts from What's Up With That, people can look it up, he's probably
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the world's leading site on climate change information.
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He pointed out that this is the biggest blow to the climate movement since ClimateGate because
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if indeed the origin of all these big headlines in the media were scientific papers that were
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based on a emissions scenario that is now essentially impossible, then, yeah, all those headlines
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And hopefully what it will do is encourage the public to be a lot more skeptical.
00:27:10.740
There's lots of things that are, yeah, there are lots of headlines that are generated, including
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climate, climate scare and climate alarmism that if you dig in deeper, you find are just
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Yeah, I've already lived through the hole in the ozone, acid rain, Y2K and the Mayan apocalypse
00:27:29.440
of 2012, and I'm still on the right side of the dirt.
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They were on their way to get us, even though it gets to this winter, minus 48.
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I was very happy to hear President Trump in Davos at the big economic forum.
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He was saying this is a good time and people should be optimistic about the future.
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And, you know, when I tell friends of mine that what their kids are hearing in school
00:28:00.720
about, you know, coming climate catastrophe, it's all wrong.
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People are saying, whoa, you know, that's good.
00:28:08.160
We shouldn't depress them and make them have suicidal thoughts and things like that.
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Apparently, the first suicide in Europe attributed to climate change for a teenager happened just
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So, I mean, you know, this kind of negative anticipation about the future, this is really
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And we should really take a leaf out of President Trump's book where he said, point blank, let's
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And, you know, you know me, I'm a promoter of the space program and we're on our way back
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This is exciting times for all kinds of reasons.
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It's a great time to be a human being, probably the best time in human existence as far as
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science, as far as knowledge, and as far as our access to information.
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Tom, I wanted to ask you what's next for the International Climate Science Coalition?
00:29:03.860
And also, how can people support the work that you do?
00:29:06.920
Because you, like us, you're under attack from the government from time to time and people
00:29:12.780
So how do people go around that to see what you're up to?
00:29:15.760
Well, people should pay attention to our website, which is climatescienceinternational.org, because
00:29:21.740
in the near future, they're going to see something up there about Climate Realism Canada.
00:29:26.780
It's not officially announced at this point, but, you know, we're working on it in the background
00:29:30.880
and you're going to see a pushback against a lot of these policies.
00:29:38.100
Is there a place where people can donate to your work?
00:29:42.740
I know that the federal government would love to believe that you have these dark money,
00:29:48.340
big pocketed, you know, coal companies donating to you.
00:29:53.480
Well, you know, it's interesting when Tim Patterson, one of the scientists who's worked
00:29:56.740
with us for years, when he said that when people criticized him as being funded by big
00:30:05.160
Oh, if people have an idea how we can get funding from big oil, I'd love to hear from
00:30:12.840
And we keep people then up to date on everything that we're doing.
00:30:16.300
And, you know, we write articles and we're trying to get into the Canadian media more and
00:30:24.540
But our main publishing at this point is in the United States, which fortunately has a
00:30:29.380
broader diversity of opinion allowed in the Canadian and then in the Canadian press.
00:30:34.160
I mean, it's interesting in Canadian media about 10 years ago, we got published from coast
00:30:40.540
And, you know, people would listen to us and they hear both sides.
00:30:45.580
But the door, unfortunately, has been totally closed on climate realism in practically all
00:30:50.880
Canadian media, with the exception of your outlet, you know, fantastic work that you're
00:30:58.040
Aside from that, there's almost no one in Canada who's publicizing both sides of the
00:31:02.780
It's almost like they consider us a bunch of children that have to be only told that Santa
00:31:09.420
So, yeah, I really compliment the rebel and good luck with Ezra's babble.
00:31:17.680
As long as I have an opportunity to tell the other side of the story, you're welcome
00:31:23.060
And I think our people really appreciate the chance to be exposed to those alternative
00:31:35.020
We shouldn't wait as long in between appearances as we have been.
00:31:45.420
Isn't it a shame that someone like Tom Harris, a good Canadian like Tom Harris, has to publish
00:31:52.980
his articles in the United States, and then Canadians like me have to source their news
00:31:57.980
in the United States to hear what Tom has to say, to hear the other side of the story
00:32:03.940
How is that the diversity that the Liberals keep prattling on about?
00:32:09.040
Thank goodness for the Internet, because the old media is no longer the gatekeepers of
00:32:15.780
And that is probably why the Liberals want to regulate the Internet.
00:32:24.160
I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.
00:32:28.400
And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.