Rebel News Podcast - James Kitchen of the Justice Centre is Protecting Civil Liberties

00:00:00.000 Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show

00:00:04.680 The Gun Show. Tonight my guest is James Kitchen. He's a lawyer with the Justice Center for

00:00:10.840 Constitutional Freedoms and he and his team are on the front lines defending civil liberties

00:00:16.520 during the times of the COVID lockdown. Now if you like listening to the show then I promise

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00:01:25.360 We're currently on month nine and a half of two weeks to flatten the curve and it would seem the

00:01:44.540 only things being completely flattened are our civil liberties and the economy. Rebel News of course is

00:01:51.380 fighting back. But we're not alone. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:01:56.340 As you know, friends, Rebel News has been on the forefront of the fight against the coronavirus

00:02:18.020 restrictions on Canadians' lives from the very beginning. And we've been fighting the pandemic

00:02:24.420 fines being issued to people for just living their lives every step of the way with our

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00:02:34.900 coronavirus fine. You can see some of our previous cases and meet some of the previous people that

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00:02:50.740 Rebel News, though, we have a strong ally in the battle to preserve civil liberties from government

00:02:56.260 overreach during the declared pandemic. That ally is the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:03:03.780 They've filed legal challenges in both Alberta and Manitoba against the pandemic lockdown. And so tonight,

00:03:12.220 I have on the show James Kitchen. He's a lawyer with the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:03:18.120 And he's on the show tonight to talk about some of the great work that the JCCF is doing to keep

00:03:24.680 Canada just a little more free. James joins me tonight in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.

00:03:32.000 James, thanks for joining me. I wanted to have you on the show because I think the work that the Justice

00:03:51.200 Centre is doing right now, especially during the pandemic, but always, is so important in defense

00:03:58.840 of civil liberties. And I know there are a lot of organizations in this country who purport to be

00:04:05.860 about civil liberties. And you hear a lot about them when they would like you to renew your membership

00:04:11.540 in their organization, journalistic organizations, I'm looking at you. But the Justice Centre,

00:04:19.520 you folks really put your money where your mouth is. And I think you've played a strategic role

00:04:25.460 in keeping this country a little more free, especially during the pandemic. And the one

00:04:31.140 that I want to talk about first is the legal action that the Justice Centre has taken with regard

00:04:40.080 to the Alberta government lockdown. You are challenging the lockdowns in court.

00:04:44.400 That's right. We are the whole thing. But what you might not fully understand is that we're also

00:04:52.880 seeking an injunction. So, you know, normally court processes take years. We try to maybe cut that

00:05:00.020 down to maybe two and a half or three quarters of a year because we go through what's called an

00:05:03.740 application as opposed to a statement of claim. It speeds it up a little bit. There's no big trial.

00:05:07.760 We get one or two days in court. But even then, of course, the situation like this, you know,

00:05:12.500 four, six, eight months is a long time. People can't, a lot of people aren't going to make it

00:05:16.620 that long, right? So in addition to that, what we've done is we've applied for an injunction,

00:05:21.480 which is an emergency expedited hearing, right? And of course, the emergency and expedited in the

00:05:26.040 regal world means two weeks. So we filed this, we filed the whole thing, both the, you know,

00:05:31.540 originating application, it's called, and the injunction application early on here in December

00:05:35.460 with the goal of getting an injunction hearing before the court closed for Christmas, which we've

00:05:40.400 succeeded in doing. And I can tell you that we recently had a hearing scheduled for this Thursday,

00:05:47.200 December 17th. That has now been moved to Monday, December, what is that, 21st, I believe,

00:05:53.740 is the Monday, this coming Monday at 9.30 a.m. The public and media can attend that. It'll be a

00:05:59.420 virtual hearing. So, you know, the people who aren't lawyers have to fill out a quick little form.

00:06:06.100 Other than that, they can attend. So my understanding is that hundreds of people can virtually attend this

00:06:09.880 hearing as long as they, you know, sign and act in accordance with this agreement to not disrupt

00:06:14.840 the proceedings. And I encourage people to do that. So, you know, and my understanding from the

00:06:21.400 court is that we are going to get a decision almost immediately after that hearing. So if we are

00:06:27.520 successful, that will mean that the Christmas is uncancelled. And that's, that's one of the goals

00:06:33.540 of this, obviously. We're trying to get, we're trying to get people's businesses open. We're

00:06:37.700 trying to get people able to earn an income, obviously. And that's urgent because people

00:06:42.440 need to be able to do that for the next few months if they're going to survive until we can have a, 0.99

00:06:45.460 you know, a full hearing on the merits on this. But we're also trying to get the, the outdoor

00:06:50.020 gathering restrictions lifted so people can continue to protest this lawfully for the next few months,

00:06:54.060 which they have a constitutional right to do. And probably most importantly for most people,

00:06:58.200 the restriction that prevents them from lawfully celebrating Christmas together in their own

00:07:01.860 homes. We are trying to get that lifted. And if we're successful, then that means, you know,

00:07:05.800 as of, as of a day or two after the hearing, prior to Christmas, people will be able to lawfully

00:07:10.280 gather for Christmas again, which they always should have been able to. So if, if people are able,

00:07:18.620 I mean, I'm able, I'm probably gonna, but if people are lawfully allowed to celebrate Christmas

00:07:27.260 with their extended families over Christmas, it will be because of the work done by the Justice

00:07:33.940 Center for Constitutional Freedoms, is there, or are there any other civil liberties organizations

00:07:39.540 joining with you in this challenge? Not so far, certainly not for the injunction. It'll be

00:07:45.100 interesting to see if any join on to the main action. That's a good question. You know, I mulled this

00:07:51.120 over in my mind the other day, and I, I, I listed off all the ones that aren't, that are unlikely to

00:07:55.240 join. Um, I can only think of one, I suppose, other, maybe other words, other than the rebel,

00:08:01.200 perhaps, I can only think of one that would even consider doing this. And I won't, I won't name

00:08:05.060 them, but, um, I'll leave that to you. But, um, you know, yeah, this, this goes a lot farther than

00:08:10.300 the so-called civil liberties organizations would be willing to go, right? Um, you know, what, what,

00:08:15.140 I mean, ultimately what we're seeking is, is, is for all of the orders that infringe civil liberties,

00:08:19.820 and the vast majority of them do, and I'm sure there's a few provisions that don't, um, we're

00:08:24.460 asking for them all to be struck down, uh, because they're just, there just isn't the evidence to,

00:08:28.560 to justify the infringements, right? Um, it's not, it's not that nothing is going on. We have

00:08:33.500 something, obviously, we know that, but in order, in order to justify these sorts of egregious

00:08:37.860 wholesale infringements, you have to have something dramatic to, to, to, to, to support that justification.

00:08:43.280 And that's, that's missing. That's not there, right? The sky is not falling. People aren't dying in

00:08:48.600 the streets, right? We have a situation we got to deal with, but, uh, do we deal with that through

00:08:53.560 normal measures or do we deal with that, you know, through the, to the, to the complete destruction

00:08:57.800 of the economy and of people's liberties and really of the whole, um, the whole thing that

00:09:03.880 makes life worth the living? I mean, you know, Christmas is, is, is massive for people emotionally,

00:09:09.000 spiritually, psychologically. Um, you know, Christmas morning is, I mean, that, that's some of the things

00:09:14.540 that keep people going as far as their mental health is, that's not some, that's what people

00:09:17.400 live for, right? You live for those types of events. That's what makes life worth living for.

00:09:21.060 That's what makes us different than cattle that you can just, you know, put in a pen,

00:09:24.600 right? We, we are emotional beings. We need social interaction. We live for it. And I, you know,

00:09:29.540 I've heard from doctors who've talked about their patients are willing to risk. Their older patients

00:09:34.740 are willing to risk getting, getting COVID and dying. If that's what it means in order for them to have

00:09:38.600 that social interaction that they want more than anything else, right? So that's what this is

00:09:43.540 about. It's, it's, it's, it's about not just the rights, but what the rights protect. The rights

00:09:48.220 protect these real human important things that we do. We take for granted, but we do because that's

00:09:54.180 what makes life worth living. It's about getting those back because you don't, you don't justify

00:09:58.560 infringing that just by saying, you know, yeah, the ICUs are quite full and yes. Um, you know, I mean,

00:10:04.760 I get it. Some people, some people have died of this respiratory. I understand that.

00:10:08.880 Right. And that's serious. And we got to deal with it, but do we deal with it by, by actually, uh,

00:10:14.740 making things worse by destroying the economy and, and, and, and the opioid overdoses and the

00:10:19.460 canceled surgeries is, you know, everybody knows about that. Are we making things better or no,

00:10:24.320 we're making them worse. Right. And the constitution is designed to protect against that.

00:10:28.160 You know, and it's, there are a lot of people I think that are not buying into this anymore. People

00:10:33.140 who said at the beginning, okay, that's, we'll cancel Easter. We'll even cancel Halloween

00:10:40.280 on the assumption that we will get through this. It'll be over and life will be back to normal by

00:10:47.500 the end of the year, by Christmas. And that's not the case. And I think a lot of people who were

00:10:52.640 not as resistant to the lockdown measures in the beginning have absolutely had it. And I've noticed

00:10:58.800 that's been the case while I've been in Calgary covering the lockdown protests, both the one,

00:11:03.480 uh, this past weekend and the one, um, uh, would have been two weekends ago that, uh, John Carpe

00:11:09.980 from the justice center for constitutional freedom spoke at, I encountered a lot of people there who

00:11:14.780 said, yeah, in the beginning, whatever you wanted me to do, I was willing to do it just for us to get

00:11:20.960 through this. We didn't know how bad it was. We thought China was lying, which they were to the extent 0.96

00:11:27.000 that they were lying. I don't think we'll ever truly know. Um, but there are a lot of people who

00:11:31.700 said, sure, I was fully on board, but as this continued to play out, I started leaving the death

00:11:39.080 cult because the comet that promised the destruction never came. And I think like so many death cults,

00:11:45.220 this is sort of frittering out and, you know, it's losing momentum and it's losing, um, the enthusiasm

00:11:52.280 and the buy-in of the public. Um, now I wanted to have you on also to talk about, because, you

00:11:59.440 know, I, I just bring up Easter and it seems like so many of these restrictions are, are targeted at

00:12:04.660 the, uh, the faith communities, not specifically Christians, but also, you know, mosques and

00:12:11.800 synagogues and Sikh temples. Um, and I think the justice center, I think coupled with my colleague

00:12:19.440 Kian Bextie's coverage of what has been happening at some of the Mennonite churches in, uh, Manitoba

00:12:27.580 has been instrumental in the Manitoba government dialing back the restrictions on religious services

00:12:36.280 there. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what the justice center offered to do to Manitoba

00:12:41.400 to get them to rethink their restrictions on religious services?

00:12:46.160 Well, you know, we offered to, we, um, we insinuated that we were going to, um, file for,

00:12:53.900 for an injunction against the drive-in services, right? Um, which, which, which happened, this was

00:12:58.740 an issue back at Easter, back in the spring, right? We, you know, we, we threatened with this

00:13:02.020 in Saskatchewan. They, they reasonably backed off almost immediately. Um, we had a few issues in Alberta,

00:13:09.340 but, but that didn't really go anywhere that they largely backed off. Um, similarly in, in,

00:13:15.100 in Ontario, way back in the beginning with, with Hildebrand's church in, uh, Elmer, I think it was

00:13:19.620 Ontario. Um, so yeah, we were, we were very happy and pleasantly surprised actually to, to, to see

00:13:25.180 Powister's government back off on that. So yeah, I'm very happy to see that. And, and, you know,

00:13:30.260 unfortunately so much of this is Paul is political, right? Um, we saw that in the spring. Um, there was

00:13:36.000 that, uh, you, I think you were there. Um, there was that was the two rallies, uh, or I know it was

00:13:41.580 one big rally at the legislature in May and three guys got, got hauled away. Um, you know, when there

00:13:47.240 was, when there's big, this was when the outdoor gathering was 15% or 15 people. Yeah. And

00:13:52.020 immediately after that, you know, the justice center took two of those tickets. They eventually

00:13:54.860 got dropped. You know, we did a news release result and, but it wasn't just us. There was a lot

00:13:58.260 of coverage of that. There was a lot of, a lot of, uh, uh, backlash and Kenny responded with saying,

00:14:03.700 well, now it's going to be 50 people outdoors and we're not going to have the sheriffs there,

00:14:07.580 you know, doing this sort of thing. Um, which I mean, that was entirely political response. That

00:14:11.460 wasn't like a science medicine response. Right. Um, but that's, but that's, that's just goes to show,

00:14:16.700 right. This is very much political and it really depends on how much political action the people

00:14:20.640 who want to stay free are going, are going to take. Right. Um, because that's just, that's how it's

00:14:25.760 better for better or for worse. It's how our democracy works. It works. And I would say it's for better.

00:14:29.160 Right. You know, that's a great point. Um, I think if, uh, for myself and some other people who were

00:14:37.740 at that legislature that day for that protest, if we didn't have footage of how everybody was standing

00:14:45.240 at least six feet apart, standing in the families or groups in which they, you know, rode together in

00:14:50.860 the same car, I mean, for the sheriffs to come in and then haul away three of them, ticket three of them.

00:14:57.980 I mean, they were probably the three most belligerent, but those are the sort of people

00:15:01.700 that go to protests anyway. I mean, that's nothing new. Uh, being, uh, being prickly is not against

00:15:07.820 the law. Um, if we hadn't sort of shone the disinfecting sunlight on that, Jason Kenney would

00:15:16.880 not have dialed that back because it was pretty clear that they were doing their best to abide by the

00:15:22.900 rules and balance civil liberties with health concerns. And yeah, you are right to point out

00:15:28.620 that it was absolutely a political response. Nothing about the facts of the coronavirus day

00:15:34.260 or that day changed because we caught on camera sheriffs hauling away protesters. It didn't change

00:15:42.860 how the disease was transmitted, but it did change how the public perceived the government's

00:15:49.080 reaction to it. It's the same thing with the BLM protests, right? I mean, the coronavirus isn't

00:15:54.480 racist. It's not like it hates white people, but loves black people. It doesn't work that way.

00:15:58.420 Right. Obviously. So, um, that was the same thing. And you had all these public health experts,

00:16:02.980 so-called, uh, coming out and supporting the BLM protests. Meanwhile, um, they, they, they were

00:16:08.040 viscerally against the pro, uh, for the anti-lockdown protests, you know, and actually had somebody

00:16:13.720 who's very mild mannered and very reasonable. We were talking about this and that for him was the

00:16:19.040 moment where he said, wait a minute, this isn't, this is obviously isn't what's really going on

00:16:23.980 here. Right. And that's what clipped for him. And ever since he's been against it. And I thought

00:16:28.140 that, I mean, obviously I was against it before, but I thought that was really fascinating to hear

00:16:30.880 this from this eminently like reasonable, mild mannered, older gentleman. And he said, yep,

00:16:35.060 the BLM protests thing happened. I saw the double standard. That's when I woke up.

00:16:38.100 And, and, and I, you know, I, I, I mean, I know that's history now, but I would, I would, I would,

00:16:43.340 uh, I would encourage people to still look back on that and all the double standards that have

00:16:46.260 happened since then and consider what, what's really going on here and what this is really all

00:16:49.740 about. Well, yeah. And, and the police response too, I remember the Calgary city police were sort

00:16:55.300 of applauding the BLM protests for how peaceful they were and blah, blah, blah. And we had the NDP,

00:17:01.160 uh, an NDP, MLA, David Shepard spoke at it. So it was perfectly fine for everybody to

00:17:07.760 gather as long as their political ideology aligns with the left, then that's fine. The virus won't

00:17:13.640 get you. But if you're out there protesting in favor of civil liberties, well, you're just a big

00:17:18.180 old grandma killer. And that's just how it's going to be. Um, I wanted to talk to you also that, uh,

00:17:24.080 about how the justice center has filed legal action against the Manitoba lockdowns. Um, is that similar

00:17:29.620 to the legal action that, um, you're attempting here in Alberta? Are you trying to free Christmas for

00:17:36.300 everybody and take it back from the Grinch of Brian Ballister? Well, it's a little different

00:17:41.600 just because the restrictions are a little different. Um, and you know, so we are, we are

00:17:47.860 going to try to file and probably at least half the provinces of the country, Saskatchewan, BC and

00:17:52.700 Ontario are lined up next. Um, but each one's going to be a little different because the restrictions

00:17:57.800 are a little different. And, you know, I'll be perfectly frank with you. I'm not overly familiar

00:18:01.020 with what's going on in Manitoba because I've been buried in, um, the Alberta litigation. We're

00:18:05.920 running that over here and I've spent a hundred hours on it in the last two weeks. And so it's,

00:18:09.840 I'm very zoned in on that. So I wish, I wish my colleagues well, and I'm glad what they're doing.

00:18:14.620 And I think they're going to be in court here this, this Thursday, the 17th. Um, and I don't think

00:18:18.820 they're, I don't think they're going after as much injunctive relief as we are. Um, just cause I

00:18:23.260 think, I think the facts on the ground there are very, are very different. Um, so I don't,

00:18:28.160 I don't think they're going to be able to save Christmas as much as we might be able to,

00:18:33.380 but I don't think they actually need to as much. Cause I don't think, for example, there,

00:18:36.340 um, you can't gather in your own home, celebrate Christmas. My understanding is that doesn't,

00:18:40.060 that restriction isn't there. Right. I think Alberta might be the only one that has that. 0.99

00:18:43.040 I'm not sure. Um, that really that's for me, you know, I'm pretty used to civil liberties

00:18:47.740 infringements. Um, I haven't seen one that bad yet. I've been doing this for four years and not,

00:18:52.780 not having, not being able to have somebody in your house for Christmas. Not, I haven't,

00:18:56.940 I have an affiant who, uh, her daughter just, they live somewhere in mid Alberta. Their daughter

00:19:02.680 just moved to Brooks and their daughter's like, you know, 19, 20, like she's young adult. She just

00:19:07.320 moved out to go to Brooks to live alone for a job there. And these rules are such in Alberta that

00:19:11.920 she can't come home to spend Christmas lawfully. If she does, she'll be breaking the law. 1.00

00:19:16.900 I mean, that's, you know, I don't want to exaggerate, but I mean, authoritarian,

00:19:22.020 I don't even know if that goes far enough. Right. I might want to start using some other descriptors

00:19:25.740 to describe that. I mean, that, that's, that, that is utterly repugnant to the idea of a Western

00:19:29.840 free democratic nation, utterly repugnant. Well, and it, it happened so fast because,

00:19:35.200 you know, all things considered the Alberta government had taken the least restrictive.

00:19:43.140 However, I'm generally against restrictions in all instances, but compared to the other provinces,

00:19:50.100 we had been sort of the least restrictive. And then the hammer just dropped. It was targeted measures

00:19:58.520 three weeks ago. And then before we even had a chance to see what results, if any, those targeted

00:20:06.500 measures had had on our coronavirus case counts, the hammer was absolutely dropped. It's across the

00:20:14.020 board restrictions, closing entire sectors of the economy, sectors of the economy that had been

00:20:19.620 applauded by the premier two weeks sooner, personal care and, and salons being one of those. And,

00:20:28.900 you know, the, the premier had apologized three weeks ago for saying, you know, we were wrong to

00:20:34.760 have named some sectors of the economy essential and others not. And then yet two weeks later,

00:20:40.000 he goes ahead and does that. It, I think that's what was so shocking for me is it just, it, the,

00:20:46.800 it flipped overnight, but you could feel it in the air. You could sense that it was coming a little

00:20:52.800 bit. It didn't shock me. I was not surprised. I seen it coming. You know, he said in July,

00:20:58.080 we're not going to, you know, we're not going to enforce our way out of this. I thought that's a nice

00:21:02.000 sentiment, but I don't actually believe you because I, I judge you on your actions, not on your words.

00:21:07.400 I've had a lot of talks to people about this course. Um, you know, well, cause, cause Kenny

00:21:11.480 probably talks the best game of any premier in the country about not infringing civil liberties

00:21:15.400 during all this whole thing. I said, well, you know, I judge people by their actions and, uh,

00:21:21.160 actions don't correspond with his words. And, you know, like, I mean, you know, you want to,

00:21:24.760 you want to, you want to pick somebody whose actions and words have lined up. I'll take the

00:21:28.040 governor of South Dakota. I'm not going to take Kenny, you know? So, um, and I, and I, you know,

00:21:33.880 I don't see, I don't see why if, if, if, if he truly does believe in freedom, if he truly does

00:21:38.200 believe that we're not going to enforce our way out of this, obviously it's not working.

00:21:40.920 The lockdowns are not working, right? We're still, we're still getting the spread. We're still getting

00:21:44.520 the, the, the deaths, which of course, a lot of the experts said, well, that's going to happen

00:21:48.840 anyways. You can't stop a virus unless you're God. Lockdown is not going to stop at any event.

00:21:52.200 And it actually might make it worse because you should be trying to get herd immunity.

00:21:55.720 But I mean, you look at, you look at what South Dakota did. I mean, in the long run,

00:21:59.160 are they going to be better off or worse off through all this? They're going to be better off.

00:22:02.200 Cause, cause, cause first of all, they didn't destroy their economy. And second of all,

00:22:04.600 they didn't throw their chaos and their society into chaos with all the distrust of government

00:22:09.800 and the distrust of each other. I mean, you know, now in Alberta, you have huge social discord

00:22:14.600 between anti-maskers and pro-maskers, right? I'm constantly seeing in the media,

00:22:18.440 all these terrible circumstances of both sides attacking each other. This is terrible. And it was

00:22:21.960 all, it was all self-imposed by the government. It didn't have to happen.

00:22:24.440 Yeah. There's a, there's a bit of a snitch culture that's been created here in Alberta. And I'm

00:22:28.440 ashamed to say that it even exists. Now it's funny that you said that we can't stop the deaths,

00:22:33.960 but incidentally, based on a justice center analysis that shows lockdowns are more deadly

00:22:42.840 than COVID-19. In 2020, our eight month total for deaths, all deaths in Canada, 186,690 deaths

00:22:57.400 across eight months. And yet in 2019, so before the times of this deadly disease that was going to

00:23:03.320 kill us all. And there are actually more deaths over across the eight month total is 190,300 showing

00:23:12.600 that these lockdowns, you know, like this disease that was going to kill us all it, this is actually

00:23:21.560 probably the least deadly eight months that we've had in a long time. And yet the economic strife is

00:23:28.360 far worse. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's weird when you look at the data, it's, you know, in a morbid

00:23:34.600 sense, it's, it's fascinating because what you, what you have is because, because we shut down the

00:23:39.320 economy. See, this is really key. So we shut down the economy. So we actually lost a whole bunch of

00:23:44.440 natural deaths that happen every year. Right. We went down and I'm going to, I'm going to think that we went

00:23:48.840 down and car accidents and other natural deaths that, that, that are a natural result of heightened

00:23:54.280 economic activity comes with a, you know, a little bit of low level risk. Right. I mean, that's, and

00:23:59.240 this, this is the problem, right. We've forgotten, we knew this a couple hundred years ago. We've

00:24:03.160 forgotten that when you live in a free society that is prosperous and is active, you will get accidents.

00:24:08.280 You will get some deaths besides just illnesses. You will, you will get those. Right. And we,

00:24:13.000 we've actually gotten less of those this year because the government shut everything down.

00:24:17.000 Um, so, but, and then, and then we also see though, that, uh, it's questionable that we're

00:24:22.760 in a pandemic at all because we have no excess deaths. Right. If it's 27,000 people in Alberta

00:24:29.000 die normally every year, well, we're not going to exceed that this year. In fact, we're going to be

00:24:32.360 lower than that. So it really calls into question whether or not what we have is just a bad flu year

00:24:37.320 or a true pandemic. Right. Cause in a bad flu year, you're not going to really change that average

00:24:41.880 each year. You're just maybe, you know, a couple hundred extra because you have a couple hundred,

00:24:46.040 a couple hundred extra flu deaths. Right. In a pandemic, you're going to have, you know,

00:24:50.760 statistically significant increases. It might be 33,000. You know, you had an extra 6,000 deaths.

00:24:55.080 That would be an actual, now we're into the actual mathematic definition of pandemic.

00:24:58.840 We don't actually have that. Right. That doesn't mean we don't have tragedy. That doesn't mean it

00:25:02.680 isn't sad that people are dying and whether it's pneumonia, flu or COVID. Right. That's, that's,

00:25:07.640 nobody, nobody's saying that isn't tragic. The point is that's an inevitable tragedy of living on planet

00:25:13.480 earth. Yeah. And so do we respond to that in this irrational, asinine way, um, by, by destroying,

00:25:21.240 uh, you know, the whole purpose of life and the things that make life worth living for the rest of

00:25:25.640 society. Right. And that's, and, and, and again, that goes back to the constitutional protections

00:25:30.120 are there to prevent that sort of thing from happening. Right. Yeah. I mean, the act of living

00:25:35.640 and being on planet earth is that nobody makes it out alive. Um, and I, my concern is that from these

00:25:43.720 canceled surgeries that we've seen, and, uh, I noticed from the analysis done by the justice center

00:25:49.400 that 850 women had their breast cancer surgery delayed by, or who, and that's essential. They had it

00:26:02.200 delayed by at least two months. And so for when I'm looking at this, I'm thinking by 2021, we are going

00:26:11.080 to see a spike in deaths, illnesses, early, early deaths of treatable illnesses where we could have

00:26:20.440 prolonged not only their life, but their quality of life for much longer. We're going to see that play

00:26:26.360 out in 2021 from all these delayed surgeries where we emptied out our hospital wards for this,

00:26:32.440 wave of coronavirus cases that never actually came. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know what,

00:26:37.560 and I'll be honest with you, that's, that's really what, what, what gives me the fire in my belly.

00:26:41.800 It's not, it's, it's not, you know, I mean, the rights matter to me. Um, but it's really,

00:26:46.120 it's about what the rights protect. Right. And it, it's, uh, it makes me, it makes me angry, um,

00:26:53.160 that, that these women are going through this and that all the other people that are suffering from

00:26:56.680 not getting their surgeries and, and, and, and even death, right. Jerry, Jerry Dunham died because

00:27:00.360 he didn't get his pacemaker surgery. You know what? He left behind two, two young girls

00:27:04.760 and his, and his wife. Yeah. Ah, you know, that's, that's, I mean, at the raw human level,

00:27:11.000 that's why I want to live in a free society. That's why I fight to live in a free society,

00:27:14.520 because it isn't about me being some legit raging libertarian. It's about people having a

00:27:18.920 better quality of life. Right. It's about actually alleviating human suffering. It's about actually

00:27:25.240 increasing human flourishing to get really philosophical about it. That's what it comes

00:27:28.680 down to. And that's, that's what this is really about. This isn't just about rights. You know,

00:27:32.520 my rights don't wear a mask. No, it's, it's about my right to live, uh, you know, with a decent minimum

00:27:38.920 quality level of life. And that's, and that's why I live in this free society and I don't move to Iran,

00:27:43.000 China or North Korea or whatnot. Right. Or Venezuela. Cause, cause I actually want to live a decent life.

00:27:47.720 And I know I can do that here. And this is one of the few places where I can. And I want to keep

00:27:50.840 it that way. That's what this is really all about. Now, while we're talking about, uh,

00:27:56.680 canceled surgeries and delayed surgeries, the justice center is bringing attention. Um,

00:28:01.320 I'll read directly from the justice center press release, calling attention to a dire situation that

00:28:06.200 has resulted in the cancellation of a scheduled essential surgery at the university of Alberta

00:28:11.960 hospital in Edmonton for a Tumblr Ridge, BC senior. Debbie head Gullhoff is a 60 year old mother and

00:28:19.480 grandmother. She requires skull surgery. I can't even believe they delayed this that had been 0.93

00:28:25.800 scheduled for November 30th at the university of Alberta, but it has now been canceled due to Alberta's

00:28:32.200 latest lockdown measures. She suffered a stroke. She was airlifted to the U of a emergency room on

00:28:38.520 September 4th. The surgery involved removing part of her skull and storing it on ice to allow enough

00:28:44.360 time for the swelling in her brain to go down. But she can't get the surgery she needs to reattach her

00:28:51.720 skull because they've canceled all the non-essential surgeries. I would think that putting your head back

00:28:58.840 together is an essential surgery, especially for this woman who has so much life left to live and so

00:29:06.840 many people who need her to live. She's got kids and grandchildren and yet she's really the human face of

00:29:13.720 this pandemic, isn't she? Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's the, she's the human face of, of the response to the

00:29:20.280 so-called pandemic that is, that is far, far, far worse. And we will feel it for years to come. Um, and, and it's tragic.

00:29:27.800 And I, you know, there's, there's many, many other stories that I've heard. Um, but, but hers is

00:29:32.360 probably one of the worst. And, you know, and again, that goes back to, you know, I mean, that's

00:29:36.360 what section seven of the charter is for, right? Life, uh, and security of the person, right? Supposed

00:29:41.320 to protect against that sort of stuff. And that's that, this is an infringement of this. And this,

00:29:44.840 and this is a direct response where you get these, you get these high level orders that are not

00:29:48.360 thought out. Um, they're just, they're just, they're just ad hoc imposed. They're arbitrary. And then

00:29:53.320 everybody's scared, right? This is a huge problem. Of course, everybody's scared. So they say, well,

00:29:56.920 I got to follow the orders. I can't get in trouble. I don't want to lose my job. I get that a lot.

00:30:00.280 Right. And so, and then, and then, you know, and they're caught in the middle and this moral dilemma

00:30:03.400 of, well, if I buck AHS, I might get, I might lose my job. Meanwhile, I know that this woman needs this, 0.91

00:30:07.960 this is awful, but what do I do? Right. Well, I better just, you know, I better just,

00:30:12.280 I better just tow the party line and, you know, they've said cancel. So I'm going to cancel.

00:30:16.280 Right. And this, yeah, this is the face of the real human suffering as, as, as a result of that.

00:30:21.540 And her surgery is a one hour surgery. It's so small and it would make such a difference in her

00:30:29.380 quality of life. I mean, just the amount of, as you point out, human suffering, she's lost 40 pounds. 0.99

00:30:37.620 She is scared to do anything because she might bump, you know, have an injury that could cause now 1.00

00:30:45.300 a catastrophic brain injury to her, maybe even resulting in death. Um, and it's just a one hour

00:30:52.180 surgery to give her back her life, but she can't get it because we're still waiting for that second 0.99

00:30:58.740 and third wave of coronavirus patients that really truly are never coming.

00:31:05.860 Yeah. Uh, James, I could talk to you all day, but you're a busy lawyer and I'm a busy journalist.

00:31:11.220 I want to give, uh, you an opportunity to let people know where they can find some of the, uh,

00:31:16.500 cases that the justice center is working on, how they can reach out to the justice center if they

00:31:21.060 feel that the justice center could help them in some way, or I think more importantly for the vast

00:31:26.100 majority of people, how they can support the work that the justice center is doing.

00:31:31.220 Yeah. So I know, you know, it's kind of a, kind of a well-kept secret. The justice center is a

00:31:34.420 non-profit charity, right? So all of our revenue, if you're going to call it that comes from donations,

00:31:40.100 right? Very similar to our church or any other, any other charity, right? We issue tax receipts

00:31:43.380 for any donation over $50. Uh, that's how I get paid. I get paid a salary. Every other lawyer gets

00:31:47.620 paid a salary, uh, out of that. Right? So, you know, more donations means more staff, more cases

00:31:53.460 we take, right? Which is great. We're in the midst of hiring staff right now. We're going out on the

00:31:57.860 wind because we need, we need staff to run these cases. I'm dying in here with just, we're just,

00:32:02.660 you know, I got this tiny little team and we're all putting in a hundred hours a week and it's crazy.

00:32:06.020 So, you know, yes, please, please do support us. It goes directly to, to, to getting the staff to

00:32:10.820 run the cases. Um, you know, and you can, yeah, you can go right on our website and do that. And

00:32:15.220 you can, you can contact us on our website too. If you, if you, if you, we call it a case submission,

00:32:19.780 right? If you have a situation you want to help with, you can contact us. We get about 200 a week

00:32:23.860 right now. So bear with us. Our response is not immediate, um, because we've been inundated as you can

00:32:29.620 imagine. That's probably no surprise to anybody. Um, but we, we will try to get back to you. And, uh,

00:32:34.180 especially if it's a ticket case, you know, a contact us, um, you know, uh, you know, if you're,

00:32:40.420 if you're concerned about it, just, just plead not guilty and, and, and then mail it in because

00:32:43.940 you're not, you're not bound to that. If you want to change your mind, if we'd not guilty in the

00:32:46.580 future, you can't, most people don't know this. Right. So, you know, I've been telling people,

00:32:49.940 plead not guilty unless you're determined to pay it. Uh, and then, you know, uh, some, somebody,

00:32:54.500 whether it's you guys or us, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll get back to them. Right. So I encourage you

00:32:58.740 to contact us definitely about the tickets. Well, James, I want to thank you so much for

00:33:03.860 the work that you do to keep this country free. It's a big job and I'm glad to have an ally in

00:33:09.460 the fight for freedom because I think they need the justice center in the work that you do now more

00:33:15.380 than ever. And, you know, I think that's why it's so important to support the justice center in the

00:33:20.660 good times because you need an army there, um, during the bad times. And, um, again, thank you so much

00:33:27.620 for your time and we'll have you back on the show again very soon. All right. Well, thanks for having

00:33:31.940 me. It was a pleasure this time. The government is not supposed to make a law that disregards your

00:33:44.340 charter rights. In fact, the charter is there to restrain the government from doing such a thing.

00:33:51.860 Your rights don't come from the government. Your rights are supposed to be

00:33:57.460 protected by the government, but also protected from the government. And that's why I'm so happy

00:34:06.180 to have the justice center for constitutional freedoms fighting alongside of us here at rebel news

00:34:13.620 against these governments that are using the Corona virus pandemic to control every single aspect of

00:34:22.580 your life. You know, I bet you didn't think a year ago that an unelected health bureaucrat whose name

00:34:28.820 you'd never heard before would now be dictating just how many people can come over for Christmas dinner.

00:34:37.300 Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much as always for tuning in. I'll see everybody

00:34:42.420 back here in the same time in the same place. And remember, don't let the government tell you that

00:34:47.780 you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - December 17, 2020

James Kitchen of the Justice Centre is Protecting Civil Liberties

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